id stringlengths 6 12 | topic stringclasses 3 values | topic_list listlengths 2 8 | general_query_list listlengths 1 1 | specific_query_list listlengths 3 16 | meeting_transcripts listlengths 91 1.83k |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
IS1005a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"15"
]
],
"topic": "Self Introduction of everybody in the team"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"107"
]
],
"topic": "Announcing the goal of the project and getting used to the whiteboard by writing down everyone's favourite animal and its characteristics"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"108",
"111"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about the expected price, profit and sales area of the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"112",
"150"
]
],
"topic": "Sharing ideas and good or bad experience about remote controls"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"157",
"157"
],
[
"180",
"186"
]
],
"topic": "Task allocation for team members"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project manager asked team members to present themselves. After that, project manager announced that the goal of the project was to design a new, trendy and user-friendly remote control, which would be sold all over the world. Project manager wanted to sell this remote control for twenty five Euro and expected profit would be around fifty million Euro. Then team members were asked to get used to the whiteboard by writing down their favourite animals. Besides, they were also asked to share their ideas and good or bad experiences about remote controls. From their point of view, remote controls with too many buttons or without backlight are hard to use. A potential-meter for volume control was also necessary. Remote control working with radio waves was better than that working with infra-red rays. At the end of the meeting, project manager had assigned tasks to team members.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Firstly, remote control without backlight was inconvenient to use in the dark room. Secondly, the industrial designer preferred a potential-meter for volume control instead of two buttons.",
"query": "Summarize industrial designer's bad experience of remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"120",
"139"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Interface developer was asked to work on the design of the remote control. User interface designer was asked to work on the technical functions of the remote control while marketing was responsible for finding the user requirements for the remote control.",
"query": "Summarize the task allocation for team members.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"157",
"157"
],
[
"180",
"186"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Users can't change the volume rapidly by using two discrete buttons for volume. While by using a potential-meter or a slider, the user can mute it down or make a high volume in one second.",
"query": "Why does the industrial designer prefer a potential-meter for volume control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"122",
"132"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The project manager considered that the goal of the new remote control project was to design a new and original remote control which is trendy and user-friendly. He wanted its price to be 25 Euro and it would be sold all over the world.",
"query": "What is project manager's opinion towards the goal of the new remote control project?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"16"
],
[
"108",
"108"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When there are many buttons on the remote control, it's hard to see each buttons' function and it's hard to press small buttons. Remote control without backlight was inconvenient to use in a dark room. Remote control without a potential-meter for volume control couldn't be used to mute the TV down or make a high volume in a second. When using remote control working with infra-red rays, users should keep it in a specific direction and it's hard to tune.",
"query": "Summarize the features of remote control which left users with a bad experience.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"112",
"150"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Because it was hard to see which button did what when there were many buttons on the remote control. And the buttons were too small to press.",
"query": "Why did remote control with too many buttons frustrated marketing in the past?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"112",
"117"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Now what .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , hello everybody . Uh , I guess you all know what is it about , you all received the email , I guess . Uh , we are actually doing this meeting to start a new project which is about designing a remote control . So I'm going to be the project manager of this uh project . And uh so I'm {disfmarker} present myself . I'm Fabien Cardinaux and uh I I guess you can present yourself . So I dunno , you can starts .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so my name is Petre {gap} . You can call me Petre {gap} , or Peter if you like . I don't care {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh my name's Bob Mor .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you are ? In the project ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , in the project I'm supposed to be the technic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , sorry .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . So my name's Bob Morris . I'm the Marketing Expert for this project .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bob ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Bob yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "My name is Hamed Getabdar , and uh I'm going to be Interface Designer in this project .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , uh , so today we are doing a short meeting to present the project , so um We are gooding we are going to present the tool we are {vocalsound} we are going to use during all this project . We are talking about the project plan , and we are going to to discuss about st our first ideas and so on , and , yeah . So we have around twenty five minutes to do this meeting . Um . So what is the goal of this project ? Is to design a new remote control . So it should be , of course , new and original , and um it should be trendy , and user friendly . That mean it's a very challenging project , and uh uh . So w it's {disfmarker} we will try to do our best , and hopefully come with something very new and that people want to buy . So , um {disfmarker} So what's uh what are we going to do during this all this project ? So it's more like we are going to do inv individual work all in o in o our specialities and we are going to meet each other quite often to discuss and to find a good way . Um . Yeah and everything is {disfmarker} will be like this . Um so now we are going to to get used t to to the tools we are going to use all {disfmarker} during all this project . So we can try to use uh the whiteboard here . So {gap} uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For example we can try to write what is our our favourite animal and write the f our favourite characteristics about it . Mm . Uh {vocalsound} . So uh {disfmarker} {gap} So I will ask you all to do the same .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just to get used to the whiteboard .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So probably I would try to try to draw the animal . Well sh should I draw the picture of the animal ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , you can draw the picture , of course {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I I th I think I should .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah go ahead .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so . Um {vocalsound} . Okay , American , um . Um . I would use the bird . So I tried to sketch it out . I had to first uh write it down because I am not absolutely sure if I can draw it , but ah . Can you recognise it {vocalsound} as a bird ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay {vocalsound} it's your turn to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , okay . {vocalsound} So I think my favourite animal would be a c a cat .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's its head .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um I probably like cats the most because they're cuddly and furry and uh playful .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I dunno if I should go with this {gap} {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh it's okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thanks . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If it is enough line .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Maybe put it up",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I'm sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} Put it a Maybe put it on the desk or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I should get used to the tool , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh just wait {gap} a little bit . C could we put it here , to make it as straight as possible ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ah probably not .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} They should be remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , it {disfmarker} it works like this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , that's better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thanks .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Your lapel microphone's fallen off .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Are you left-handed ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , pity {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Should I clean ? {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I think like horses uh because they are strong and beautiful , so if I want to write it here , I think I can . {vocalsound} Oh {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Never mind . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah , it's maybe better if you leave it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah . Maybe we should just continue .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , don't worry about it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} , no worry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You won't draw them , or ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can draw it , if you want . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I dunno if I can .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just try . I would like to see how it looks like .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It may be like a cow or I dunno , whatever .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I'm not good very good in drawing . Okay , so this is very {vocalsound} {disfmarker} It's a bird , I think . I dunno what is it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , I think it's clear .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Four . Okay . Mm-hmm . Mm . Yeah . I'm shameful {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh that's good , it's good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's okay . It's in it's indeed beautiful .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and strong . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bob . Have to remember it . Bob .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So good um {disfmarker} So , let's talk about money . Uh we are going to to sell {disfmarker} we want to sell uh this remote control for twenty five Euro Euro . And uh our expected profit will be around fifty million Euro . And uh we are trying to to have a market all around the world . So {gap} n not only for Switzerland , but for the world . Uh . So , um . The {disfmarker} We expect a production cost of maximum uh twelve point fifty Euro .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Per unit , I guess .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Y oh okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um , so we can start today to have a first idea of what we want to do what are our experiments with remote control , and any idea ? So , if you have some experience , good or bad , with remote controls you can share it and say what you f what is your idea . Anything .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , from experience , um I've had remote controls in the past that have had very {disfmarker} they've had lots and lots of buttons and they've been very small , and it's been very hard to to to use , because there's so many buttons , and you know it's very hard to see which buttons do what , and the buttons are very small and very hard to press . Um and and normally you only every use , you know , on a T_V_ remote you only ever use , mostly , you know , f four or f six buttons . Um .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it's frustrated me in the past , th that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I have also some points uh . Maybe two points . Uh first would be that in current remote controls there is no back light {vocalsound} , so if you are if you are uh playing with this in the dark room it's it's probably worth to to have something like uh back light .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And maybe it could be also dependant on the the amount of of light in the room , so that if if it's in the day it doesn't need to be back lighted because it works on the battery , so . So something like this . And the second thing , f second point from me would be that in a normal remote control there is uh {disfmarker} there are two buttons for volume control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I prefer like a potential-meter or something like .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah , okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You know , some slider or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not just two discrete buttons for volume ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , n {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but something which {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is that because the {disfmarker} of the discrete volume levels , or is that",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I can reach {disfmarker} In uh one second I can mute it down , or or make a high volume .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Are you not afraid that if you take your remote control you can move the slide and it could {gap} {disfmarker} the the volume can go up very quickly",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah , n .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and it can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If it drops to the floor then it starts to scream {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , also if y when you take the the remote control , for example on the table , you take it and you push the button and everything is very loud , and",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , f It depends what what you feel about that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you have a heart attack {vocalsound} . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but we can we can think of these things afterwards , but if {gap} you have some more notes on that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh I {disfmarker} Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Do you have something ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "just a simple experience . I uh I prefer um remote control working with radio waves , because remote control working with infra-red rays you should you should you should keep it in a specific direction and then try it hard to tune {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true . Yeah without obstacles and {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Let's continue .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I have a meeting in five minutes , so maybe we should hurry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um . So we will close uh this meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , just a second . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we will have a next meeting in uh thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um . Uh . The {disfmarker} So I will ask you to do some work . Uh the the interface interface developer will work on the on the design of the remote control , start to to have new idea and",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which i which is Hamed , {gap} ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "read about {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "He's the Industrial Designer ? No , you're the Industrial Designer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I am the Technical Designer ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno which one , uh v .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Industry and {disfmarker} Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think that's the first . I_D_ . Industrial Designer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the second one is the User Interface Designer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "User Interf Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then last one's marketing , which is me .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so I'm the first one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For the User Interface Designer , which is Hamed um ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "uh , you are going to work on the technical functions of the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I see .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And for the Marketing uh Manager , I dunno , okay , which is Bob , uh you are going to try to to find the user requirements f uh for the remote control . Um , you will receive by email uh the specific instructions and uh by your personal coach .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap} Sign .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep finished . So I see you in thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Great , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thanks .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thanks guys . Bye .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bye .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Uh . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
}
] |
IS1005b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"23"
]
],
"topic": "Conclusion of the experiment and questionnaire for user requirement"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"56",
"91"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation about technical function design and discussion about solutions for wave interference"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"104",
"126"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about working design and functions associated with it"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"127",
"179"
]
],
"topic": "Cost of different factors"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"182",
"424"
]
],
"topic": "New requirement and basic functions"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This meeting included three presentations from marketing, user interface and industrial design and discussion about core function of remote control. At first, marketing introduced the conclusion of experiment and questionnaire. Users thought remote controls were ugly and only used a few buttons. Since young users might prefer high technology features like speech recognition. After that, the user interface introduced how electric circuits, keyboard and transmitter reacted together. And group members discussed solutions of wave interference. Then industrial designer talked about working design and how LCD display or speech recognition might influence the design of circuits. And whether adding these functions would make the price out of range was discussed. After discussing new requirements for remote control from management, the group members started with core and basic functions, such as necessary buttons. Finally, they mentioned something about speech recognition and speech commands and their influence on battery life.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Marketing had concluded that younger users might be more expected to use high technology features such as LCD display and speech recognition. However, the industrial designer was worried it would influence the design of circuits and make the price out of range, while marketing thought they could afford it. Industrial designer also mentioned that they should care about battery life if speech recognition was used.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about high technology features.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"17",
"47"
],
[
"119",
"130"
],
[
"428",
"436"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User interface said that they could make this wave in specific frequency to avoid interfering with other devices. A password could also be put inside the wave in case that two neighbours had the same remote controls. If two devices were trying to go to communicate with the TV set, then the wave with more energy was chosen.",
"query": "Summarize user interface's opinions towards radio wave interference.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"68",
"88"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial designer thought that if they only used LCD displays, backlight radio frequency communication with the TV set and other related things, the price would be ok. However, if speech recognition was required, the price would be out of range. And he preferred IR circuits because it was much cheaper.",
"query": "Summarize industrial designer's opinions towards whether the price would be out of range when discussing the cost of different factors.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"127",
"147"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "They wanted the number of buttons to be as small as possible and only stuck on useful functions. They thought that channel changing and volume setting button was obviously needed. There could also be key buttons which were used to select a specific channel. An individual power button was also considered necessary after discussion. But the user interface rejected having a TV setting button on the remote control.",
"query": "What did the group think of buttons when discussing basic functions.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"185",
"237"
],
[
"260",
"263"
],
[
"316",
"387"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The marketing hoped there would be some features on the control to display the name. Industrial designer also wondered about whether the time setting for turning on TV was useful. While the project manager thought that if time was added, a bigger display would be required, which was not useful for users.",
"query": "What did the group think of the clock or timer when discussing basic functions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"390",
"427"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Users didn't like the look and feel of most remote controls currently on the market. And most users only used ten percent of buttons on the remote control. Channel selection button was the most commonly used button, followed by the volume button. Young users might prefer to have high technology features such as LCD display or speech recognition function on the remote control.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the conclusion of experiments and questionnaire for user requirement.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"23"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "New requirement included avoiding the teletext, focusing on remote control only for TV and keeping the product recognizable. All the group members agreed. They also decided to start with basic functions and then move on to the more advanced feature. Then they concluded that LCD display, channel button and volume button were necessary.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the new requirement and basic functions.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"182",
"424"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So um nice to see you again . Uh . So , uh . Tod uh for this meeting I will take the notes and do the minutes . Uh so we will see our three presentations . Um we will start with the uh Manager Expert wi who will talk about uh user re requirements , whats user needs and what it desire for this devi device .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , can I have the laptop over here , or ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Oh , I don't think so . I think you have to come here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Have to get up . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I dunno . I think it should stay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Excuse me .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Should stay in the square here . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , maybe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so basically I'm gonna present some findings of a study we conducted uh into uh what users want in this remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , you can put it here . Oh that's okay , it's jus",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um so first of all we {disfmarker} what we did is we um conducted a an experiment with a hundred test subjects . Um we put them in a in our um usability laboratory and got them to , you know , um play with remote controls , and also to complete , after they'd done that , to complete a questionnaire uh to tell us what they like and what they don't like in remote controls . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So basically um the major things we found out was that um basically users don't like the look and feel of of most remote controls that are currently on the market . Um they , you know , seventy five percent of the people we we uh did the experiments on , found that rem remote the remote controls that they'd used in the past were ugly . Completely ugly . Um they they didn't match the operating behaviour of the user , that is , you know , the the way users use remote controls when they're watching T_V_ . Um , that the layout of the remote controls didn't match they way that they used it . Um and thirdly they say that w half of the users that we um tested said that they only used ten percent of the buttons that uh are on remote controls . Um so we collect we also some collected some usage statistics uh based on how these test subjects were using their remote control . And from this we basically came up with the figure that the channel buttons , the channel selection buttons are the most {disfmarker} by far the most used buttons on the remote control . Um and you can see they're used a hundred and sixty eight times per hour on average , um , while the user's watching T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um the closest button that was used , well the cl the button that was used that was closest to the channel button was the teletext button , um which was used fourteen times per hour , followed by the volume button , which was four times per hour , um , all the other , all the other um buttons , such as ch um audio and picture selection um configuration buttons and things were used , you know , l approx well less than or equal to one times per hour . Um we also asked users um which buttons had the most importance to them , you know , which which buttons they felt were the most important buttons on on the remote control . And basically they came {disfmarker} they said the channel , volume , and power buttons had the highest relevance to users , um note that only power was very infrequently used , it only had a b a a fr usage frequency of about one times per hour , but users ranked it as having a very very high relevance . Um and the audio and picture settings had a very {disfmarker} that well the users thought that um w the audio and picture settings were very uh weren't very important to them um , and they used them very infrequently a as well . {vocalsound} So we asked users what what um frustrates them the most about um current remote controls . And fifty percent of the users said that uh what frustrates them is losing the remote control um somewhere in the room and not being able to find it . Um {vocalsound} they also said that it um it takes a lot of time to learn a new remote control , especially when there's many buttons and it's a , you know , a c a a unintuitive interface . Um and then thirdly , they {disfmarker} some users commented on the fact that the the you know the way that you have to hold and press buttons on a remote control ar are bad and um cause u repetitive strain injury . {vocalsound} We also asked some users about some specific features that they'd like to see in the {disfmarker} on the remote control . In particular , do they want an L_C_D_ d display , and secondly , do they think speech recognition uh is a useful feature to have on a remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um basically our findings are that um amongst a younger age groups uh the answer is umv overwhelmingly yes . They want these features , they want these high technology features .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um for instance , ninety one percent of pe of people aged between fifteen and twenty five said yes , they want these features . Whereas um {vocalsound} the the trend was as users as users um became older and older uh they were less likely to want these sort of features in a um in a remote control . So I guess it depends on where we're focusing our our market . Um and as our company motto is putting fashion in electronics , um I think we're focusing on the younger younger um target demographic , and so maybe we should think about adding these sort of high technology features into our remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's my dic that's my presentation . Thank you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , um maybe now we can talk about a user interface and uh about the technical function of this device . So uh Pet Peter , can you talk say something about that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , okay , yeah . Yeah , but the user user interface is responsible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "B you think uh I I'm User Interface Manager .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sorry , I'm {disfmarker} Sorry . Sorry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If I could go there with this cable .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You're scaring me with L_C_D_ man . And speech recognition in remote unit , it will be very e expensive .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , it's true , but , you know , they're features that users want ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And our production cost of twelve fifty Euros per per unit is fairly high I think ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so I think we can afford to to add these sort of features into our remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "At least we have couple of months t to work on it so so it will be cheaper finally . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sh okay . {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It is true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Where's delete button ? Okay . Oh I'm sorry . {vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's the wrong one , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's still Bob Morris .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Presentation three ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah you should have put yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because you cancelled it . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Click on yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so here is my presentation about technical function design . I will talk about different components and s of system and how they react together . Okay , uh , first what is a remote control ? Simply it's a device , as you know , for uh , for sending some commands by some waves to uh another device to to tell different commands uh with this device . And the main idea we don't use any cable and we can rec react simpler with the device . Uh i it has different blocks , different blocks . Uh first is remote control have sh ha should have some electric circuits uh making interface with uh keyboard and uh r reading uh keyboard and reading the keyboard uh commands . And then inter then make uh these keyboard commands , uh in interpret these int uh keyboard commands . And then there should be uh an electronic circuit making uh electronic signals according to these commands and uh finally there is a transmitter which is a cord or a a diode making uh making uh waves to transmit through the air and uh uh this air this uh wave uh will be received by the by the other device like a television or whatever , to uh r to realise the command . Okay , {vocalsound} uh about {disfmarker} what I found about uh different uh these different blocks are uh , usually there are two different methods uh to {disfmarker} for designing a remote control . They are based on infra-red uh waves or uh uh radio waves .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You still want me the presentation .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There are two different uh uh solutions I mean . This is uh this can be uh uh the the differences the th between different kind of waves , infra-red or radio waves . And uh also as uh I understood , and uh I think it was a part of uh Bob , uh uh presentation , people prefer to have uh to have uh the remote control with less button . So for the electronic part , working and interfacing , with button , we should we should try to t try to design a remote control having uh some some simpler buttons or some rolling buttons to just to just to search between different options , and showing o something on T_V_ and putting less lesser stuff on the uh on the remote control . And uh personal preferences , uh uh uh uh certainly a remote control with {disfmarker} uh working with radio waves is uh preferred because uh you can pr you can take it in any direction and you don't need to tune it any way . And uh uh again , using bigger buttons and less number of buttons are also preferred , as I see . Okay . That was my presentation .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . I have a question .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Do you think radio waves um will interfere with other appliances in the home ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I don't think so , because uh we can make uh we ca we can make this wave in a specific frequency . So they can be in a range which is not inter interfering with the {vocalsound} with other devices inside the home .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So can we use any any frequency ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it should be okay {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We have the right to use any frequency ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh no but as I know , there is a range for uh for this uh f for for uh for this stuff , for designing this circuit . We can we can we can tune our uh transmitter to work in this range , and for this range we don't need to ask any permission .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And what happen with uh radio waves when two neighbours have the same {disfmarker} have our remote control , for example ? And so do they have the same frequency , or ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh for this I'm not uh I I don't know the solution , but one solution can be something like putting uh p password or something inside the wave , so the only your T_V_ can understand it",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . A kind of identification {gap} ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , identification code inside the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah f {vocalsound} uh I know about this , since it's my {disfmarker} it's exactly my field , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "okay . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's uh kind of handshaking , uh , when starting to {disfmarker} uh when you start to communicate with the your T_V_ then then it's like an handshaking protocol with your your remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So so if two two devices are trying to go to communicate with the T_V_ set then the the the one which has the more energy in the wave is chosen . Well it can be a problem sometimes , but most of the time it works okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The password may simply {disfmarker} uh or uh i identification code may simply solve this problem . A specific uh remote control has a specific f",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah but we we don't have to think uh about this because I think as a function designer that we will use the already made uh circuits which we probably bu buy . It's worth to buy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And they have these problems solved so . So we don't have to think about these .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , maybe you can talk about the function , and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . I have only a couple of things because I had {disfmarker} I struggled a bit with the software that I'm supposed to use in this uh uh in this company . I was used to use Linux before , so . But I tried to tried to break through this {gap} too , I guess .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Open .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Ah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} How to make it big ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Slide show .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Five . {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Slide show . Okay , thanks . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It should work , so you can {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Oh so I will speak about working design . That's the first slide . Uh what uh I have to do ? A look at what the other company {disfmarker} Okay so uh presently I am looking what is possible to use , what circuits to use and stuff like that because uh I didn't work uh with these uh circuits so far so I have to look what what is a v a v available on the market for for the communication {disfmarker} for the I_R_ circuits and so on , so I'm currently looking what is available on the web . And uh I wanted to ask you m maybe afterwards , after after our discussion , if we have some contacts in some companies , so , which can report on what is going on there , so , I would be glad if you can tell me about them .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , you know . Uh , okay findings , that's {gap} the point that I'm working on currently but uh so far I I was uh looking what what are the blue circuit , I mean radio wave {disfmarker} radio frequency circuits are available now ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but the prices I read are high . So , I know that uh the user interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but you know , when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red control instead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe . Uh . Components to use , I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit . It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speech recognition ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because the speech rec Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit , or are we planning to construct our own circuit board ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no no no no . This we this we buy I think , because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay s So we just buy a circuit board and {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition . This I prefer that we should make ourselves .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it depends whether we take a decision to use it . Same thing . It's fairly expensive to use these circuits . So , speech recognition {disfmarker} well , L_C_D_ it's okay because it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_ , less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But the speech recognition we have to compare whether the price and the {disfmarker} what does it offer , you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So what do you think would be the price , it would be out of range ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I'm {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or it would be maybe feasible ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . I was not thinking too much about the price . But if we use the L_C_D_ uh even the radio frequency communication with the T_V_ set and the backlight and uh related things like the photo diodes and stuff , it should be okay . If we decide to use the speech recognition , then we probably could struggle but we'll see afterwards .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It depends of you if if the M_E_ or U_I_D_ ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry about the names , I don't really know , uh want to have it like in metal or in plastic , these things , it it depends on you not {disfmarker} Because the the the electronic device's price is not not so big in comparison to to the overall shape and stuff like that , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We will discuss it afterwards . Oh , this is nothing . This is just my notes on what to use . And uh my personal preference is yes , I would like also preferably to use R_W_ circuit , but from the point of view uh of the design and price , I would stick to I_R_s . That's my opinion . Uh I mean if infra-red uh circuit not not the radio frequency .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Why ? Because it's simpler ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because because the the range where you can use it is fair .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's okay I think . And the price is fairly cheap for this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . It's a a price matter .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , depends .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Jus just the price .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise I don't care what I put there because it's the chip which I buy or which we buy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I I I think it's o y o {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What how much more expensive ? Are we talking three times more expensive ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , three to three to five .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or ten times more expensive ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "N not ten times ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but it depends what what we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah . That's still a lot . I think it's it's probably not worth spending the extra money ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because I mean all the other remote controls on the market have infra-red , so people don't expect anything other than infra-red .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it's not worth spending the extra money .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I {gap} , oh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Th they are used to use it when they can see the T_V_ so , I don't know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "On the other side , we want to have something new .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You know , where",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we want to to have something new and So we I think we should still thinking about it . But maybe {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I think , based on my usability studies I th I feel that users are {disfmarker} prioritise the look and the feel and the trendiness above , you know , the difference between infra-red or radio waves .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I think we're better off spending money in the usability phase .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} You the user interface , and management man , uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay , that's it for me .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you Peter .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So um I have to inform you I receive an email from the management bon board today and they have new requirements for the for the remote control . Um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "first um , they say that's uh about something about t teletext . Uh apparently it becomes from {disfmarker} according to them it becomes out of date . Out-dated . And uh {disfmarker} Because of the internet popularity and everybody has internet at home , and actually it's not useful to have teletext . Um . So I think we can avoid the teletext . Um the second thing is uh they suggest that that we should uh use the remote control only for T_V_ , not for D_V_D_ and other devices , because it make it {disfmarker} it makes it's too complex and uh because we have not much time for this project we should stay on T_V_ on the {disfmarker} only specific T_V_ remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I agree . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The third {vocalsound} the third one is uh about the the the image of the company . So um uh we should we should keep uh {disfmarker} The the product should be recognisable . Uh , uh It's {disfmarker} That mean we should use the colour of our company and maybe put somewhere the s the slogan of the company , which is uh , we put fashion of {disfmarker} in electronics . So , when people see the the remote control , they should say oh it's from Real Reaction and he s they should recognise the company . So , um {disfmarker} So now we we should take the decision what we are going to {disfmarker} what function we will have on this uh on this remote control . So , mm , are we going to use L_C_D_ , speech recognition ? Uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , should we start with just the core , the basic functions that we need .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then we can move on to the more advanced features .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe , maybe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so the available things are L_C_D_ , the buttons and everything . Uh radio frequency depends . And , well the recognition it depends on you guys .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but first maybe what is {disfmarker} what are the usual function of a standard remote control ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You should probably speak .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "what do {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well , I mean the obvious one is changing channels . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we should stick on very useful functions , because we want less button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , turning channel , of course . Volume setting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh just one note to the chan channel changing . Do we {disfmarker} will we use only two buttons , or or like numbered buttons ? I mean those nine plus one or two ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it would be a b {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because it's many buttons and we were speaking about lowering the number .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On the other side we have more and more channels , and if you want to pass through all the channels to get the channel you want , it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay so so we keep all these all these buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe maybe we could think of something more betweens , like",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , at least nine , ten button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like ten plus , five plus , one plus , one minus or something .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Maybe something like that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or using the names and the keyboard {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Ah yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or something {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh I don't know . Oh . Maybe we could have key buttons , like uh discovery channe like documentary channel , and movies channel and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You mean like hierarchical structure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And inside this this thing you can move , maybe switch .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Okay . Like categorising channels .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If you want to see a movie you click on the movie button so you have all the movie channels and after you've you plus plus plus .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh sorry .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I It just an idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know what you think about that but .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it requires the use of L_C_D_ probably , to to tell you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , probably , yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To have some feedback . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so I'll make a note on L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We could maybe also c um incorporate Petre's idea of the um slider for the volume , with the channel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we c you could quickly just {vocalsound} {vocalsound} through many channels .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Like roller for the {disfmarker} Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} For the channels , perhaps .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Anything else ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we've got channel and volume . Um .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we are still s speaking about the common devices",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or we are inviting the new one ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think basically the core functions we want , and then more advanced ones .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What about the settings of the T_V_ ? Because it's button we don't use very often , but it's {disfmarker} we need it anyway . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh we don't have any uh we don't have uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we should just design the remote control and we sh we don't have any access to the to the T_V_ design or we can change some design . Because one solution for this um uh uh ch changing channels is to see a summary of all channels , some some preview of all channels and then you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On the screen , you mean ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah b {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not on the control , but on the screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Not on the control , on the screen , on the T_V_ screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , this would avoid L_C_D_ , then .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't Oh , I don't but I don't think we're we're the ones . I mean this remote control we're developing is a generic control for all T_V_s , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . I don't know if it's possible to to watch something on T_V_ {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh . W I I think it it would be better to to stick to the remote control and not to bother the T_V_ to to to print these things .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well it wi it will be still more expensive , but for the L_C_D_ and this stuff is no problem in the price .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , what are we doing with the settings ? Because settings {disfmarker} if we want to do settings we need buttons for that and we want less buttons , so . Maybe with the L_C_D_ we can do something with less buttons , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But then you don't want to make the L_C_D_ display too complicated at the same time .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Two T_V_s .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I mean there's always {disfmarker} we can always have these l less often used functions hidden somewhere , under a cover or at the back of {disfmarker} under a slide or some",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like ma",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , the {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We we could have for example two buttons like simple mode and advanced mode .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Or I dunno .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or like children and grandfather's mode ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and the , well the the user",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "not the user , the man mana T_V_ manager mode {vocalsound} . Ah , I dunno .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So we have five minutes left . Um .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I think s the settings we th we are agreeing {disfmarker} are agreed that they're required .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's just how to a",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We should hide them somewhere .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hide them , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "In the menus of the L_C_D_ or in the back of the remote control , or something like that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay . Yeah . Uh , okay , what else ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um . {gap} Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean a power button's obviously",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} This I was thinking . Do we need a power button at all ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "uh required .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Should should shouldn't we do it like sleep mode after five minutes of not using it ? Because generally {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's it's a kind of setting , I think . It should fit in those settings functions .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Settings .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because it's not a very current useful function .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , well I think when they say power button they mean to turn the T_V_ on and off .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , I think it's after after five minutes or something {gap} a timer {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Well I I uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I I think , no ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But if you're watching T_V_ for two hours , you don't want your T_V_ to turn off after five five minute {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You don't need to {disfmarker} every five minutes to keep it alive .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh probably . Okay , so we should keep this button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean based on our usability studies again , um {vocalsound} pe um people said that the power button was v a very relevant button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um , you know , it was nine out of ten",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we we could p what we could probably do is to keep also to keep uh keep the L_C_D_ and all the buttons and stuff ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "re relevance .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we could make it like a opening opening style that if you open it you are {disfmarker} you just turn on the T_V_ and if you close it , it will",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "turn off the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If if you like this , {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . B Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because , well {gap} {disfmarker} it's maybe question for you t",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we need to concentrate on the , you know , the major usage of the th of the control ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "which is you sit down , you turn on your T_V_ , you change channels , you change the volume , you turn the T_V_ off .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So s yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um and all the other f functionality is",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they can yeah they can be hide somewhere by a cover or something like this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "not used very often .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like covering cu .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On the back , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I mean like the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , like mobile phone covering .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but since we have the L_C_D_ , we didn't need too much button too many buttons . Um , okay , just um the decision of the power button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Should we make it a button , or some some something which would be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For what ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh power button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think a button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A button is better .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah oh yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think it should be a bu",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If it if it's a button or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah a button , yeah I guess so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Its own button on the front .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , one nice big button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Old fashioned button , to satisfy the grandmothers .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , any other suggestions or functions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "S What about things like the clock and um timers ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do we still have the time ? I I just wonder .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we have still one or two minutes to talk , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Oh . Well what w what was the question ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Clock or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh um , you know , some func some features on the control to display a time , or t to display {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Usually it's already on T_V_ or something like that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but since we want to control all the televisions , and and it would probably be worth to to set the timing on the remote ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "no ? Because if if the T_V_ turns on itself , it well you know , if the time The timer should be there .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . If we if we add the time , we have to have maybe a bigger display or something like that , and is it very useful ? I mean , are users wants to have the time on the on the remote ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This is the question .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Probably not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is it useful ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's a questi yeah , it's a trade-off .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "W In my opinion we should have only useful thing and Because apparently they want {disfmarker} The simpler it's is better .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay simple .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Did you did you ever use the like the timing of turning on the T_V_ ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "well {disfmarker} And based on your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Very , yeah okay , very occasionally .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I do use the I do use the display of the time quite often , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but it can be on the display in in a corner all the time on the remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's okay , that's true . Okay , so no time button {gap} . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No time on {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh do we need to include anything about the speech recognition and the speech commands , or ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I I thin I think it will not take lots of place , we just need a microphone and the software , so , and it sh and it will be a little bit new and interesting , so people may be attracted to buy this stuff and it's not very difficult to uh put a software inside the the electronic device and put a microphone . It doesn't take that much place and also that much {disfmarker} It doesn't cost that much .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but we we should be careful about the battery life , then . If we use the speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So maybe we think {disfmarker} we can think more about that , and discuss that maybe last time {disfmarker} next time .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh yeah , now the meeting room is busy . Somebody booked the meeting room just for {disfmarker} at one P_M_ , and so we should leave . Uh . So , um . So now we are going for for a small lunch . It's uh funded by the company . And uh after we have uh thirteen minutes to to do indevel individual works . And uh I will do the minutes . And uh you are going to work on your individual works . And uh you will receive as usual your specific instruction and so on .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you everybody .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "cool . Okay",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thanks .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
IS1005c | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"57"
]
],
"topic": "Result of market research and fashion trend"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"58",
"75"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about use convenience"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"76",
"159"
]
],
"topic": "Engineering requirements and size of device"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"160",
"199"
]
],
"topic": "Energy problem"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"200",
"304"
]
],
"topic": "Disscussion about size and shape"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"305",
"403"
]
],
"topic": "User interface and detailed shape design"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting was mainly about the conceptual design of the remote control. Firstly, marketing introduced market research and fashion trends around the world. While the user interface emphasized that easy to use was more important. Then the industrial designer talked about the overall requirements from the engineering point of view, including the size of the device and source of energy. The group members spent time figuring out the real size of the TFT screen and energy problem. After that, they discussed the shape of the remote control and decided to make it like a banana. Based on this shape, they talked about the detailed design of the appearance and user interface.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "From the marketing's point of view, fancy was the highest priority, followed by technologically innovativeness and ease of use. The marketing expected the feel of the material to be spongy.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the result of marketing research and fashion trends.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"17",
"57"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User interface thought that the feature easy to use was more important than being fancy. He mentioned that the more frequent buttons should be larger and be placed in good positions. He preferred to put some buttons in special places and cover these buttons, or put some buttons inside the remote control. And the remote control also had to be easily taken in hands and energy-saving.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about use convenience.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"58",
"75"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The group members firstly made sure how big the seven-inch TFT screen was in reality. And they thought that the remote control should not be too big or too small, it should be fit in hands. Then they discussed how the screen and buttons could be reasonably put on the remote control.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the size of the device when discussing the overall requirements.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"92",
"159"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The industrial designer thought that the solar cell was necessary for speech recognition. He mentioned that the daylight was enough for recharging. And he supposed that the remote control would be in the room which was usually lightful.",
"query": "What did the industrial designer think of solar cell when discussing energy problems?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"160",
"199"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The user interface said that no matter large or small, taking in hand easily was the most important thing. The project manager also wanted the shape to be fashionable. Considering that the colour of their company was yellow, they decided to make the shape of the remote control like a banana.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the size and shape of the remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"200",
"304"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The group members thought that the first layer would be spongy. It might be magnetic and would be like a plastic cover covering some buttons or USB interface. Users could open this cover like peeling a banana.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the first layer when talking about detailed shape design.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"305",
"370"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Hello , uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um the goal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be , but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have to to reach a decision . So , uh we will have again three presentation , from all of you , and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions . So , who wants to start ? Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I s",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , no , you you can start .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So start , uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I'll start . Can you open my presentation ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "please .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh . {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm number four .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Trend . Yep . Can you pass the mouse , please . {vocalsound} Oh okay , that's fine .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Turn .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market research and some fashion trends around the world . Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market research basically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel , um as opposed to a functional look and feel , is our number one priority . Um fancy is is is is the , you know , highest priority .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative . Um so this is t number two priority but it's two times less important as the fancy criteria . Um and third thirdly the easiness of use is is the um is is important as well , but again two times less important as the technologically innovativeness of the remote control . {vocalsound} From our f fashion people in Paris and Milan , um we've discovered that this year um fruit the fruit and vegetable motif will be the most important thing in in clothes , shoes and furniture . So , {vocalsound} I'm pretty confident that our remote control fits into the furniture category . And also um the feel of material this year um is expected to be spongy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um so hopefully our remote control reflects that s in some way .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What does it mean , spongy ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh sort of um squishy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like soft , or something ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um . Yeah soft ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "like a uh like a sponge .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like a sponge . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I don't know . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . I will see .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um so in conclusion , we need a our remote control needs to be something that's really fancy , um has lots of technolog tech technology in it . {vocalsound} Um somehow would be good to have it related to fruit and vegetables with a spongy feel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And that it's easy to use and from our last meeting our you know Fabian told us that w you know one of the requirements is that we have to reflect the look and feel of our {disfmarker} of th the Real Reaction company . Um .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , uh yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Easy to use , is it uh a as much as important than technology or fancy thing . It's less important , right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Less important .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um fanciness first and then two ti you know , half as important as that is technology technology ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and half important as technology is easy to use . So .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} So , Hamed , can you {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . The second one . Could you please show the presentation number three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um . Number ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We'll see .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This one ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes . {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second . Uh , n n no , it's the first one . The second one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So it's not this one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah . Okay . {gap} Okay . So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use . I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy , but okay , we can discuss about it uh later . Um {vocalsound} generally , generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something , in my opinion , uh the first feature is just to be easy to use . So , the more frequent buttons should be larger , they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control . And uh s uh I can conclude like this , that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it . It should be {disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control . {vocalsound} Okay . So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better to put uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons which are used more in the middle of the remote control , and they should be bigger in size . Uh the shape of remote control should be in a way which can {disfmarker} which should be taken easily in hand . It should not be completely like uh a cube . It should be it should have round edge , so uh then it's easier .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And maybe uh just like some toys , some joystick which is easier to take inside the hand . And uh also f uh uh m because because customers doesn't like to buy lots of battery , it should not uh consume lots of energy . Okay . And my personal p uh preference is uh , as I said , uh just putting this buttons in a special places and covered some buttons which are not used uh that much like settings button , like mobile phone . Usually some mobile phone cover the dialling number part , so we can cover these buttons which are not used or uh number buttons for the for the for the can channels , and just put uh volume change or s ch can uh channel change buttons uh uh in the remote control . And if the user needed to do some more complex task uh he he can open the cover and then change settings or something like this . Uh . And also uh I think if we put some some some some some buttons inside of the remote control it can be used easier . Not on remote control . I dunno if I can explain well . But uh just inside . For example , a sliding or rolling uh uh d uh stuff , if we put it inside then we can easily manipulate with uh thumb . So it can be another uh preference . And uh I dunno but uh I think usage of a speech recogn uh r recogniser can be good . I know that it consumes lots of energy , but if we do it in some way that it asleeps when there is no sound and when it detects some sound it may consume less energy . And I think it's good because it's something new and usually young people like something new . So it may not be very useful but because it's new , people may buy it . Uh I personally think there should be a big difference between uh between something . Otherwise they prefer to buy something which is coming from a famous company , or . Okay . That's mine .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay , so good news from me uh uh for me from Hamed , but bad news from Bob obviously , because spongy design , I don't like it as {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so could you please , Fabien , open it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm person two . And which one , uh probably the first one . I'm not sure but check the first one . I {disfmarker} Most of the things I have to write myself on the board , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This one , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's it . Just {disfmarker} It's only this slide ? Yeah . This this is just uh one thing I wanted to mention and show you that I just uh I just found this , that our company uh developed a s a seven f seven fingers or I'll just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Inch .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , seven seven inch T_ {disfmarker} T_F_T_ screen , which is good news for us , since we wanted to include a display there . Uh so I I probably draw it down raw scheme .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This is this is the stuff that I can use to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oops .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so the {disfmarker} this will be like the overall scheme or overall requirements from the engineering point of view . Uh first thing is uh this will be the overall shape , no uh I'm not speaking about the real shape of the device , but the shape of the inside of the device . So there will be some circuit uh for the power . So , say power circuit here . Uh the main energy will be taken from batteries that we can uh uh {disfmarker} And if we decide to use the speech recognition stuff there , we must use additional source of energy , which I found the best is to use the solar cells which can which can uh supply everything . I was computing all the all the things related to the speech recognition , and it's okay to use just uh two batteries and solar cells , so . So no problem . There can be also solar cell . Uh the main board with all the circuits will take at least seven to seven centimetres , so this is my like hard requirement for the guys from the design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So at least seven to seven . It depends where you put your screen , because the screen is uh seven inch , so it depends on you where where you put it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't matter . Um it's just one cord from from the main board to the screen which can be elsewhere . So this will be T_F_T_ . And on the main board we have the um interface to the microphone , which is somewhere , say here . Interface to the microphone . Then the graphical card uh for the T_F_T_ and the third unit is the I_R_ . The good news is that we can uh we decided to use the infra-red unit because our company has also developed the chip for communication by the infra-red , including all the stuff inside , so it will be very cheap for us . So infra-red here . So the {disfmarker} once again the overall requirements , seven to seven centimetres for the board , which has to be {disfmarker} which can be spongy but has to be this size , and the T_F_T_ which is seven inches . Um I have to check what I wanted to {disfmarker} Uh from my point of view I don't care about the about the material used for the overall des uh ov all the device .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Can you fit any uh for example a T_F_T_ or any electronic device in a spongy thing , or is there any problem for that ? For example , put electronic card on a spongy thing , I can I can imagine it could be a problem .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} A all these things in in uh in this box are okay to put in in any shape , basically .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we have to take care of the T_F_T_ . Well , sponginess . Maybe it a good feature , since it takes {disfmarker} if it's around the T_F_T_ then it's good , because it's just keeps it safe ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well maybe it can have two shells , a hard shell inside and a spongy shell outside .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Maybe put electronic in a box and a spongy thing around . {gap} maybe after .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , it's maybe related to the U_I_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ca Can I ask a question . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A Yeah , that's all from me .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This seven inch T_F_T_ screen ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "how big is it in reality ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , seven to seven inches .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's quite big .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh uh have we decided that we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screen ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , I don't think it's seven by seven ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To be honest , I was {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yes {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I mean even even that is like this big .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": ". But , yeah , {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but it's seven inches . But I I think we can we can cut it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can cut the T_F_T_ screen . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Let's go . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , no no problem ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but no problem to to me to cut the screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So so for the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "These technical engineers , huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , what's the size of the device ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah well this is like this is almost nothing . Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that , you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that , or ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because if it's t too small we can we can lose it , at home , you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} What user wants . He wants a small remote control , or ? Uh uh with big buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I thought that it it should fit in the hand or something .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , a small c control that they can hold in hand .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's difficult .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} A sm",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But is something that's seven centimetres square e easy to hold ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "W I I think so . I if the roller buttons are on the side you don't have to catch it like that , but just like this , and you know follow follow {disfmarker} Well , that's that's no task for me , but well seven to seven at least yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So maybe you can finish your presentation ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and afterwards we will discuss about all this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe this {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay thanks {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's it . Okay . So . {vocalsound} {gap} No . Uh , so I think we have a lot {disfmarker} We have to take decision today , so I think we have to do some work to finalise our idea and take decisions . Uh first I think energy it's a key problem because uh it depend what can we have as feature if we use only batteries , for example , or something like that . Because can we have L_C_D_ and speech recognition with battery , and it's also r related to the size of the of the devi of the device ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not {disfmarker} J uh just a point to the energy th things . If we use the batteries , and the additional so solar cell , then it's okay for L_ uh speech recognition and L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so no problem in energy , I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we have to use the solar cell .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise not .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but using how many batteries , for example ? Are are what Maybe what is the size of the battery {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah I was thinking just common A_A_ cells .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh one two {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So like three to five centimetres ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno exactly , but .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So if we use s solar cells , um where is the sun if someone's watching T_V_ inside ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S Uh d doesn't need to be sun . It it's just the daylight , you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The television lights . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well I I suppose that I suppose that uh that this remote control won't be in the in the room like this , where there is light only when when there are people , but .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "At least when there is T_V_ you can get light from the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah from the T_ {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it's enough , uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I dunno .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah it's a it's a compromise , no ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "At least it's new and maybe technology New technology .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's why I wanted to to include the speech recognition , because you wanted all the new things .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's it's quite innovative , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And if you watch T_V_ outside it's {vocalsound} very useful . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I think before talking about the other thing , it's important thing it's the case .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh what what are gonna be the size , because its weight drives the other {disfmarker} what we are going to use as features and so on . For example for the for the L_C_D_ , if we choose to have a small device , we cannot use this um a such a a a screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh the s the screen is okay , but the board , uh that's the problem . Well what what would you guess as a shape ? Or what what would be the shape ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . I think I think their being uh large or small is not important . The only important thing is to be able to take it in uh inside hand easily . So let's say an average size , okay ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and it should not be very heavy also . And I prefer to {disfmarker} is it shouldn't have a uniform shape , so in the middle it should be a little bit thinner , maybe maybe . So we c it's like like some joysticks . You can take uh some some joystick you can take inside hand easier because it's it's designed for your f uh taking into account your finger shape and your palm shape . So the general shape should be like this . I think uh seven centimetre by seven centimetre is a little bit large . So uh seven {disfmarker} not seven but let's say five by ten it's I think it's {disfmarker} that's my opinion . It's easier .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Which is the same area .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Could you re could you redesign your board ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Five to ten . Well that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , five five centimetres by ten centimetres .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think it's feasib Well one um um {disfmarker} How could we do it ? We could put the board next to , well , under the L_C_D_ and for example make the L_C_D_ be totally unrelated to the thing that you hold in your hand .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like holding something , and the L_C_D_ to be just on top of it , you know somehow . Well {disfmarker} But maybe let's stick to the s spongy thing , like one unit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_ , if it's possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well fi five to ten it would be feasible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so five to ten , I I think it's it's feasible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So we are agree with a small",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'll make it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Or uh or I don't know",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "L_C_D_ . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Fo Five by ten .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I don't want to now invent something new , because we didn't discuss about it . So using some L_C_D_s we can touch , so we can remove uh keys and just uh having uh , I dunno the name , L_C_D_ responding to fingers .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Touching the screen . Something like",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Tactile or something , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} Mm like tactile .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm , touch screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Touch screen , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} But for now if we don't want to use such kind of screens I I think we using a a smaller screen is better ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The problem is we have a limit in a month of time , so we cannot do something very new .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So let's go for a small L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so Yeah , so so just just give me the the the five by ten numbers that you find the best and send it me",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A smaller s",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , five by s ten .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and I will work it out .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um so what about , so the case we talked about . Um something easy to use , you said something easy to use but how does that fit in a fashion way , like with fruit and vegetable , and about the colour and logo of the of the company and so on , now , can we do that ? My first idea is because our colour is more yellow , and the {disfmarker} it should be easy to take in a hand , I thought about banana , or something like that , which is fruits , and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Seven to ten banana .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} A big banana . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Rather mango or something or .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well it's it's definitely the obvious choice , with the colour of our company .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean what other what other fruit and vegetables {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it's just an idea . I dunno what you think about , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do you know of any any other fruit and vegetables that are yellow ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I dunno if it can fit with the technology . You are the specialists of that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You mean banana .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , but {disfmarker} If it's {gap} {vocalsound} {disfmarker} If it {disfmarker} If the banana is big enough .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then , yes . {vocalsound} But if you want to look at the screen {gap} , no . Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think this {gap} is not good . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The screen has to be {vocalsound} square ? Or it can be like a a shape , quite , uh with curves .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , it can be whatever you want .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It could . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But if it's square then we get four screens out of one by cutting just . But if you want some shape then we can only get like two screens out of seven to seven inches , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's like more more expensive to have shape like that . But I don't care . You know , if we fit this requirement .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker} I'd like a shaped screen . I think that's more important than saving a bit of money on on the T_F_T_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , m maybe the banana could be like a bit uh fatter than than the c c common one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , it should remember banana , but it's not {disfmarker} doesn't have to b to be uh uh really the size and exactly the shape of a banana .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like modified banana , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we are agree with the banana thing ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well it {disfmarker} we'll stick to banana , or ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , banana's good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , {gap} the last point we decided it's infra-red , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think infra-red .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Everybody's agreed .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . Sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , so that's it I think about the concepts . You have other thing to add to this point , or uh no ? So , uh about the user interface , so we are going to use L_C_D_ . In the last meeting we talked about uh hidden buttons . I don't know what we are going to do with that . You talked about the buttons on the side {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like like peeling of the banana you s {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , peeling of the banana .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm what ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It would be cool , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Peeling of the banana , you know ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "should should discover the other buttons , which are hidden .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And you mean the first layer would be spongy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} First layer obviously spo Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "w It's it's like silly , but the people will really appreciate it , yeah I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is it is it possible to do that ? It would be a great idea , but is it possible technically ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like doing a spongy layer of the banana , and you open it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think if we if we have a spongy layer on the outside of the banana then it's easy to make that ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you know , to manipulate that to hav be a cover that you can pull off and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , some {disfmarker} Something like a plastic cover covering uh some interface , U_S_B_ interface as in the in uh digital camera . If you see it's like peeling . You open a plastic cover and you see some U_S_B_ interfaces , some some interfaces for adaptor . So keys can be uh buttons can be covered like this , with a plastic cover and uh when uh and when you open this cover it's like peeling a banana . So , something like this . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but do you see that as a rigid thing , or like like a banana , something very soft , you can open like banana , or .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well is it possible to make it soft ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , yeah it's a lic like a plastic cover , so . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I think if it's so then it's cool ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , I dunno what you think , Bob , but it would be great for users I think , and very good for marketing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think for sure . Definitely . The softer the better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Cool .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Honestly speaking , I cannot imagine it , so far ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but it will be terrible . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um . And setting buttons hidden in {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm , other remarks , or something , or . Something we didn't talk about yes yet , or . I think we are almost there {gap} . Uh maybe , how can we , if we have a soft thing , like this , and to open it we have to attach it somewhere , I dunno how to do that technically , or .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And how {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Pof .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We could use Velcro .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or uh ma maybe a magnetic",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yeah {gap} it's a good idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ma magnetic {gap} oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Magnetic {gap} . Mm . Yeah or a {disfmarker} Yeah it can is it can be a plastic cover uh sticking to the to the all the stuff like uh with magnetic p uh magnetic uh magnetic uh {vocalsound} materials in the border , so it's it sticks like refrigerator door , completely .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And when you try to open it , it will be opened easily . So you you can be sure that it will not be open while you're uh while while uh you are commonly using uh buttons on the banana .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And what would be the matter here of the first layer I mean ? Mm . Likes . Soft plastic , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I imagine some sort of vinyl thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In a in a sort of a with a suede sort of feel . Maybe .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well since since the since the things like the like the screen and um how to say that , solar cell has to be has to be like kept kept in the shape , we cannot b uh {disfmarker} So we need that the that the peeling {disfmarker} uh I dunno but we should we should take care of these two two things . So , if if uh the solar cell won't be visible while the banana is closed , then the material must be able to put the light inside , you know . So that we can reach the energy out of it {disfmarker} out of that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . So you're saying is it possible to have a solar cell and this removable cover and",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It is possible , but , well if it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And a and a banana .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I dunno .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I dunno how to how to do it if if t if to if it's better to put the solar cell to the t to the peeling or outside it , or or inside .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But then it must be some window there , you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And something we forgot , maybe , uh about the speech recognition system , are we going to use it , or not ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , I think . I think so .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's important .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It i Yeah , it seems feasible , and it would be something very great .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker} One of our p priorities is tech technology .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we have the de design , the a good shape , new and so on ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and we have also the technology thing w will be . And even the easy to use thing ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so it will be perfect .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we add also the speech recognition device .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I agree .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , that great . We have decided everything . And think we are on a good way . So , um uh the next meeting will start in thirty minutes . Um , so uh the the Industrial Manager uh will uh will work on the look and feel design . The User Interface uh uh Mana uh Manager will work on the user interface device . And the the Marketing Expert will do the first project evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , I hope you can do that in thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And uh , yeah , I uh I think you should work together , s you uh Hamed and Peter , to work uh in a in a first prototype , and uh more about the shape and so on and how you can manage to put everything together . And um as usual you will receive some specific instructions on . So thank you all everybody ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and see you in thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
IS1007a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"49"
]
],
"topic": "The e-mail about the discussion"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"50",
"102"
]
],
"topic": "The role of each person in the team"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"103",
"232"
]
],
"topic": "Unique functions of a new remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"233",
"263"
]
],
"topic": "Information of the next meeting"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager introduced a new remote control project for television. At first, team members got their roles. Then they discussed what had to be done to design a remote control which had different features. Priority will be given to the functions. For example, team members hoped that users could choose what they want not by channels but by contents. To implement the functions, they discussed a lot, such as speech recognition interface and navigation buttons.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "User Interface thought there should be a function, instead of choosing the TV channel, users could choose TV channels or the contents of the programme. It was more powerful. Some of the websites already provide this service so this technology is also available.",
"query": "What was the main idea of User Interface when talking about the functions and why?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"139",
"179"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface thought that with a speech recognition interface, users were choosing the programmes directly instead of pressing the channel number. It was not costly and it was different technology and more powerful.",
"query": "Why did User Interface recommend a speech recognition interface when discussing the functions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"139",
"175"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing said that the team should be careful about the size of the remote control. He proposed that TV itself could have a remote control system which could be user friendly. He was suggesting some different technology.",
"query": "What did Marketing say about the size of the remote control and why he/she brought up the topic when discussing the functions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"154",
"167"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface proposed that there should be six or seven buttons for the same number of categories. Users could use these buttons to choose hundreds of channels. These buttons could be navigation buttons.",
"query": "What did User Interface propose in the discussion about buttons when discussing the functions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"181",
"193"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The team would talk about how to gather information about the contents, set the remote control system browse by channel or browse by contents and to reflect about it.",
"query": "What would the team talk about in the next meeting?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"233",
"255"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Good morning everybody .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Good morning . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Good morning .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Good morning .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , we are asked to to make uh uh a new remote control for television . And the characteristics of this new remote control should be original and trendy and of course user user friendly . So people can {gap} can use it without any any problem .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think we should set the the points to to drive the project and uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . B did you send us an email about this ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , not yet ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but if you want {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we we received an email about this uh d designs . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Do you want do you want me to send you a mail ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ah it's Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or you can put it in the shared folder .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you see the email ? You {gap} email . The v very {disfmarker} no , no the first one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , I didn't get it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's inside .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The third one . Oh , you didn't get anything .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's strange . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I got an email about the dis about the discussion . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You get email , {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno from who .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , from the account manager .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} From the account manager . You have received the same email , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's for your guys to {vocalsound} how to design it all the aspects so you need that information .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so each of us has a role to do .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think {gap} assign your uh roles .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "In each {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For each for each one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We already have our role .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For each person , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} 'Kay , we can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So there are {disfmarker} so we have three {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So there are three kinds of designs , that's all .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "f yeah . We have functional design , conceptual design , and detail design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , alright . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , who will be the the responsible for the functional design ? Any any volunteer ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think our uh responsibilities will be assigned when we {disfmarker} in our mail we received from the account manager .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm doing the interface .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You are doing th",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I'm doing the interface . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Are you using the {disfmarker} you are doing the in {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I I'm I'm {disfmarker} Well , maybe we have {disfmarker} okay so I {gap} industrial design . It was a little confusion about my uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but it's alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I'll for industrial design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And and you {disfmarker} Norman ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm ? Um working on i . {vocalsound} User interface . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "User .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I'm into marketing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} doing the marketing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} yeah nothing much in the project .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nothing related here to the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Marketing in this design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A design is basically for industrial design and the user interface .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You see the second mail ? Yeah , it's inside . Go down . Appendix .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , this is {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "See there's a role for everybody .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Even for the marketing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "first {gap} . {gap} us user define .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Next {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But look at your role , your marketing role .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "There's a trend watching .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's your role .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think we can have a little discussion about what has to be done",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and what are your ideas about the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "About the design or {disfmarker} Maybe we'll discuss this later , no ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , w we want to have a new re remote control for for T_V_ distribution I guess .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we have to {vocalsound} plan how how it would be developed and uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "how we can make it work {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean working remotes we already have . This will be something different from the other remotes {disfmarker} remote controls .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What we we have to keep in mind the {disfmarker} these characteristics .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I dunno I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And of course it should not be very costly .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well I I think that Norman and I would think about um the technical points and um we should discuss it in the next meeting , or",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Need to collect information . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "About the {disfmarker} about what ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um . {vocalsound} I I'm part of design , perhaps . Uh , what is most important in a {disfmarker} in a remote control ? What is the most important function aspect ? Uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You mean the external {gap} or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , you have to make it work .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah of g of course .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's the {vocalsound} that's the big thing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it should be easy to work with .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We can think about an interface with uh well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh . We {disfmarker} maybe you can have a speech uh recognition interface . You just tell the television I want {disfmarker} which channel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You won't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or or you can say for example , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I want uh to list all the programme tonight . Y you know {gap} , instead of {gap} uh remote control it's doing the {disfmarker} some searching for you , so you don't have to look for the channel you want . Just say maybe I just want to press {disfmarker} I wanna have a button for all the movies tonight . Or a button for all the magazines , all the information {disfmarker} documentary tonight . And then you list a few , and I will choose from the list . So instead of pressing the channel number , I am choosing the programmes directly . Yeah , that's one way of uh making it useful .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I I think if we include a lot of technology on the remote control it will be very costly .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , because {disfmarker} no ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's not very {disfmarker} a lot . Th this information exists . For example you can get um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like s uh you you you say we can use speech .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can use uh {disfmarker} well for example {disfmarker} anything . {vocalsound} The {vocalsound} the idea of using speech to reduce the button , but uh and it's more natural . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} I think if you want t to choose uh from a list of programme or or something like that you you may have to to use uh w uh I dunno",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm a {disfmarker} okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean the main uh function of remote control is to have something in the hand",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "In the hand .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and we should be very careful about the size of the remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If we are going to add a speech interface , I'm not sure with {gap} trendy slim size of the remote control it would be able to put a speech recog",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yes , possible .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "if you want to put a speech recognition system f interface for that I think the T_V_ itself could have it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I could talk to the T_V_ {disfmarker} television itself .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Except if if you are far from the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I need not have an {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean we have some {gap} or something , different technology but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is {vocalsound} it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . But th the main idea I wanted to s I wanted to say is that um {vocalsound} there should be a function , instead of choosing the ch T_V_ channel , there's a option you can choose , either T_V_ channels or or pr or the or the contain or the contents of the programme .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On the content .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah it's it's a good idea it's a good idea",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's more powerful . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but I I think that technically it would be um a little bit uh uh more tricky to to achieve this than just to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . No , because you see now all the T_V_ programmes are available on the webs . They they are {disfmarker} they are {disfmarker} they are available in X_M_L_ format or whatever the format . We don't care . We just say that this are some content . We just want to retrieve the content and then classi sort them by the types of programmes . Some of the websites they already provide this service ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so we can just use the service available . Download it uh to the {disfmarker} to this remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then there's {disfmarker} there are only six buttons for six categories , or sev seven . The most there are only seven buttons . So I just choose the category one and you reuse the same button , for example to to choose among the the sorted list the programme you want , so {vocalsound} you don't have to choose among hundred channels , if you have hundred channels , you just have six buttons , seven buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we should also optimise the the number of buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I I I I think that j just by using navigation buttons and the user interface on the screen we are able to uh navigate uh through the {disfmarker} Well channel programme or contents or {disfmarker} in an easy way , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This is {gap} good idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Ah , yes . So {gap} . Yeah . Yeah , so you don't have to display here , just display on the T_V_ screen , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah in the dis display on the T_V_ screen",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Good idea {vocalsound} . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and just uh with the with your remote control would just navigate through the f",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think I think that will be revol revolutionary {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because all the T_V_ uh the the remote control have all numbers , lots of buttons and then you dunno what to choose in the end . Yeah . {vocalsound} Alright . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . So {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I think for for the technical points we have to to to check how to gather the data from programme or contents and all this stuff",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we have five minutes to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah w w we have sometimes to use the white-board .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah you can y you can you can use it if you {disfmarker} so , can we",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Five minutes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And another interesting idea for this would be to have an light adaptation system depending upon the picture of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , I mean , if you're watching a movie and suddenly there is a dark uh {vocalsound} some dark scene , the lights adapt themself .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The lighting in the room changes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we are designing just remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You {disfmarker} it {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean , we have a option in the remote control . If we want to have that option , you press that button in the remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh right so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , do you want to have a conceptual remote control there , or you just want to put the function in ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . If if you you you can if you want you can use th the {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Please , Norman , draw uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Go on , draw something {gap} . {vocalsound} Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , I'm afraid you forgot to put your lapel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Where is it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The lapel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or before the before the the design that says {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Where where is it ? Here .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Norman .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just plug it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Be before before writing you can uh sit and that says {gap} what we what we said",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "then after that you can you can use the {gap} . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , alright . So so the most functional des mm the most important function is to ch choo buttons to choose the content . Right ? We agree on that , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , uh first one is to uh {vocalsound} buttons i or it could be anything with {gap} buttons . Uh to choose uh content s or channels .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we have both . The user can choose w which one they want , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , by content or by channel ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "By content or by channel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's a good idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Choose by contents or by channels . And then what did we say just now ? Other than this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh we we have to find a way how to gather information about the contents .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so technically how {disfmarker} the problems that {disfmarker} how to do it is to {disfmarker} how to get the content .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Challenge .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think i it's not very difficult to to browse by channel but it's a little bit tricky to browse by contents so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Content . Okay , so these we have to work it out . So this one of the problem . And uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think that's the {gap} the things to do",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The main thing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh to uh reflect about it",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Alright . Alright , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh discuss it in the next meeting .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we are {disfmarker} we'll discuss it {disfmarker} we will get some information in the next meeting , so for now we get uh the funct this is the functional designer {gap} ? That's the first aspect . Right . We will {gap} get information and then we'll come back in . {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Thank you everybody . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we'll come .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So maybe we'll meet in maybe five minutes ? And we'll discuss the other other aspects .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright . Alright , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well thank you all {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you , mis {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
IS1007b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"15"
]
],
"topic": "Introduction of the second meeting"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"127"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation about industrial working design"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"128",
"250"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation about features of the user interface"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"251",
"334"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation which linked the project with market interests"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"335",
"384"
]
],
"topic": "Further discussion about the design of the remote control"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "In the discussion, team members did presentations and talked about the design of the remote control. Project Manager introduced the aim of the second meeting and new project requirement. Project Manager said that the team did not need to pay attention to teletext and lighting adaptive. Then Industrial Designer, User Interface and Marketing gave presentations respectively. Industrial Designer proposed that they could add software functionalities on programmable chips and could use the FPGA. User Interface focused on reducing the number of buttons and recommended navigation buttons. Marketing discussed a lot of ideas including using a speech recogniser, the size of the remote control and lighting adaptive options. In the end they discussed some topics like teletext and accessing the Internet.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The team would add some software functionalities on programmable chips browsing by the content or things like that. They would use the FPGA for the functionalities and use chargers rather than batteries.",
"query": "What was the decision of the discussion about industrial working design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"34",
"127"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer said that FPGA was a field programmable gateway array. The Bluetooth chip was just responsible to make the communication between the two devices, but the FPGA was different. The FPGA would produce the data to send and it was for software.",
"query": "Why did Industrial Designer recommend the FPGA when talking about industrial working design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"58",
"80"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The remote control did not need very much power. Users could put it on the charger when they did not need to use it. People don't like it to have to buy the batteries when they run out, so a charger could be more user friendly.",
"query": "Why did Industrial Designer recommend a charger rather than a battery when talking about industrial working design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"86",
"109"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing thought that users would be interested in a speech recogniser and it could help users choose the program then reduce the number of buttons. The remote control should be small and comparatively cheap. Not many people were interested in lighting adapting options, so it was for the Industrial Designer and Users Interface designer to decide if it's going to be working or not.",
"query": "What were the main points of Marketing when giving a presentation which linked the project with market interests?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"251",
"334"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The team would design a speech recogniser in the remote control to help choose the program. It would be small. They would balance the features and the cost when designing it.",
"query": "What did the team decide about the speech recogniser when talking about presentation which linked the project with market interests?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"257",
"306"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Lighting adaptive was a little bit complex. It was possible but not in this project.",
"query": "What did the team agree about lighting adaptive options when talking about the presentation which linked the project with market interests?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"320",
"334"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "So we come again for the the second meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh for the aim of this meeting now is to to make presentation about uh the work for each one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And {gap} take the the decision about the the design and the functionality of the the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And we have {disfmarker} think I got a new project requirement .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I think uh teletext becomes outdated . So the popularity of the {disfmarker} since the popularity of the internet ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and I think we don't need lighting adaptive , so the remote control should be only used for the the television . And of course we should have our image {gap} in the in the design . So , let's start with the the industrial designer .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or y you can use the whiteboard if you want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh {disfmarker} Well I have a PowerPoint pr presentation stored in my in my personal folder",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so I I I think you can reach it from here .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just go to explorer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or open . Participant two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Participant two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Open uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh open . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do you want to open {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because it's open you mean . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Right , so um I will talk about the the w working design and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} F_ five .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Slide show , view slide show , {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And um well I I will present my my first idea on how to build the {disfmarker} our new remote control for television .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So uh can you go one page down , please . So I think the first things to do is to define the hardware components neededs to achieve uh what we want to do .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So uh mm I'm thin uh {vocalsound} I think uh I I'll do a survey about what is uh what is available on the market and what what is the the cheapest possible {vocalsound} things we hav we can use . Then uh I will try with the technical team to to build a prototype and to see uh with uh h how this little box {vocalsound} would uh look look like .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And how an and we can uh start troubleshooting first uh com communication problems or things like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And when we are ready with this first prototype I I think we can add some software functionalities on a programmable chip like browsing by content or um things like that . Okay so can you go down uh {disfmarker} So , wha what I think {vocalsound} for now {vocalsound} is {vocalsound} we don't want to have a remote control w which is wired",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so uh I think we u we can use a battery for the {gap} . Then two programmable chips for both software functionalities and communication . And the communication with the T_V_ set is uh made through uh infrared communication So uh this is the {vocalsound} the schema of the {vocalsound} o of the future uh remote controls",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Did you draw it ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Wow . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so uh you can you can see the components , uh battery and uh the two chips goes to the infrared uh connection to the T_V_ set .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What is the other chip for ? The one on top .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The one on top is for the um {disfmarker} well the functionali the functionalities",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "One is a communication .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and the the th red um {disfmarker} sorry the green one is is to {disfmarker} well , putting things together , um f transform the data into uh qu into the format to to {gap} uh to communicate with the T_V_ set .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For men . To the {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And , that's it . I think we should use a F_P_G_A_ for {vocalsound} for the functionalities which is easy to to t",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . What is F_P_G_A_ ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's field programmable uh something array .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Gateway arrays .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a field programmable gateway arrays .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So why's it {disfmarker} how is it different from the Bluetooth ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , uh a F_P_G_A_ is just a chip you can uh you can {gap} pr programme it uh wi with wh whatever you want .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Programme it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh well the Bluetooth chip is just responsible to uh make the communication uh between uh the two devices .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} So this are the {disfmarker} they have to work together ? Or ? Do they have to work together or two separate choice {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . Well , th the F_P_G_A_ will produce the the data to send .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or it's something like {disfmarker} isn't hardware the first one ? And the second one is for the software .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is the is the software par alri okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah to run th to make it run .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you can control {gap} if you want , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright and that's it for the working design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So if you have any questions ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , and how about the battery power ? Uh you mean that battery would be somewhere there and the remote contro the power to the battery comes through infrared ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh no no no no , I think uh we have uh to to uh have uh embedded uh b batteries in in the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Into the {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah into the t .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "more compact and uh {disfmarker} okay , {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh I I don't think it will need um {vocalsound} very uh much power to make it run , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . You can put it on the charger when uh you when you don't need to use it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's a good idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Having a charger rather than putting the battery cells always .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "People don't like it to have to buy the batteries when they run out .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm . Uh {disfmarker} mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We just make a small charger",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Y yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and put it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can i yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because you are using because you are using Bluetooth , if some people have P_D_A_ they can use their P_D_A_ to control the T_V_ if they want to , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's a good idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ma",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Also , but but {vocalsound} I I I think uh the the goal is to sell our remote {vocalsound} control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I dunno . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Bu {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we can change the b {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Our remote ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we do not want to make it P_D_A_ . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} S {vocalsound} okay , so charger for {gap} is the {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So is mine .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's mine . Participant one , no ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Yeah , this your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Oh we have {gap} so let's move to to user interface design {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} So you can open uh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Participant {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "three . Yeah . {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} So I'm working on the technical functions design . {gap} can you show the next slide . So the the purpose is to to find uh the important questions to ask is what effect should the apparatus have . So {vocalsound} so I found on a webs on the internet",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} During the weekend .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {disfmarker} yeah . {vocalsound} I spent a lot of time searching {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's good . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and uh and I found that uh the function of remote control is to send messages to television set .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} For example switch on , switch off , switch the next channel and so on and so on .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "G",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I found two very good prototypes for {vocalsound} for this interface from our competitors",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so can you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This are usual functionality {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , yeah . Ours is a bit uh different . So these are two example . One is from {vocalsound} {gap} the other one is from , yeah , uh engineering centr yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Tasks .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This is the most competing prototypes I've found {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But then uh loo but then I found if you look at {disfmarker} you see on the left one there are too many buttons {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And they are small {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . O on the right I tried to play with {vocalsound} the problem is that uh if I have hundred channels I have uh I have to choo press the other button to choose the hundred channels and I have to compose the number",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so it's very lousy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So you {vocalsound} so you move to the next the next one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so I talk about the problem . And then I I look at the user manual they are a hundred pages thick , so we don't want that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So I propose the easy to use uh prototype . You can navigate on T_V_ screen and we can {gap} the user's preference and we need to have the T_V_ connected to internet so we end {disfmarker} in order to access the T_V_ programmes by X_M_L_ and we need some {disfmarker} to do some preprocessing . From the technical aspect , the processing should be done on the T_V_ set than on the {vocalsound} on the remote controller , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And then we {disfmarker} the speech recognition as uh Harry says we may just put in {disfmarker} we may K_I_V_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What do you mean by the pa pa processing will be done on the T_V_",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , all the processing is done {disfmarker} the T_V_ is a compu has some processing power the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "than the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So we have to t",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we should have specific T_V_ ? Or ? We can use this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We have to sell a T_V_ with the remote control too . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we don't {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah because {disfmarker} {vocalsound} are you just wondering what controller {disfmarker} okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so . J j just the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , not the T_V_s .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think there there is there is al there there is a a technology like show view who is already available on most of the T_V_ set on recorders or thing like that",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and we can try t to get this information on to the remote control to to do the processing on the remote control because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So i the processing on on the remote controller {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so it can u be used in any T_V_ , any conventional T_V_ sets ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we {gap} . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "N yeah , that's all . The next one ? So I come up with a simple design , just keep the v navigation buttons . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , that's a good idea , I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Keep the navigation",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We d we don't we we don't need really much buttons to {disfmarker} i if we have a screen to navigate on on the T_V_ so uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , f four five buttons , it's sufficient .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's easy to build ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it does not consume much power . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , that's all . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , but you have a catch there , um assume that um if you want to go to {disfmarker} if you are watching channel two and if you want to go to channel ninety nine , then {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , then y you you go to the main menu and uh you have uh go to channel",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then uh you {gap} can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . No , because you choose by channel , so {disfmarker} you choose by T_V_ program",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh huh huh huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so you don't have hundred channels to choose from . If you go by channel , you don't have to do that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm hmm hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} but uh I I think i i {gap} if you if you want to to make uh {disfmarker} well a a big jump {vocalsound} {gap} but uh well you you have to to have a a a device when you could you could {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you are {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah . Ah , a big jump .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah then yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A mouse or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , not a mouse but uh something that that says more clearly that uh right , left , up , down ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "well , the to have the ability to to to write something to the navigator , maybe directly , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm hmm hmm . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we can think of buttons like in the telephone to send messages or things like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "How the {gap} this remote ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we'll see . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's gonna be small .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course {vocalsound} small .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah . So it'll beep if you wanna find it",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} too small that it goes under the sofa and we can't find it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you just uh shout {disfmarker} y h just {disfmarker} it just has to re respond to you when you look for the device .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that's {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I dunno how bu {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} just {gap} give it a name and we call him .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And {gap} responds to you , and {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , that's right . Yeah , that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so uh next presentation {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Participant four . So Harry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , after having the inputs from {vocalsound} industrial design and user interface , I think most of the points which I want to are already covered here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And to find the most interesting features what the users would be interested , then what we have done is we have put a feedback forms in all the magazines , and the users send the feedbacks , and based on that {disfmarker} These are the findings which we got and {disfmarker} yeah adding of a speech interface is always good for a T_V_ remote but the technology {disfmarker} We already know that {disfmarker} as discussed earlier {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I I think it will be a , yes , a bit complicated to um make a speech recognisers runs on the small uh ts",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "An {vocalsound} it does {gap} how feasible it is .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I- {vocalsound} mm . But I think if you {gap} to recognise numbers it's a well-studied problem . I if you just recognise uh numbers is a limited {disfmarker} you have limited vocabulary {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh we can put an limited vocabulary as in the mobile phones .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We just have the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And this can allow to choose the the program , for instance without uh adding uh buttons",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so it's a good idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} it's not going to take much space also . It's going to be very slim .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And next one was the size of the remote control . It has to be of course a very slim and small one . And of course most of the people are interested in if it's less expensive ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so this is an important criteria here is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But do you think what they sug suggested s possibility {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean we have to look for a trade-off .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The features and the cost .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I no {disfmarker} I I think that uh i if we go for quality people may tolerate for high quality and of course comes with uh reasonable cost .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe not less , but they may be willing to pay little bit more for comfort ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Little bit more if it's with extra features .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah , extra features .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , s s speech is a important extra feature I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . That's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But is it useful or not u I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There is {gap} in the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean , for a lazy guys they could say nine and the nine channel comes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or they say movie name {disfmarker} or I don't go for movie names but only for the numbers on the channel , or volume up , volume down , brightness , contrast .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , I think this should be a good idea , to put this features . And the fourth one was the teletext in various languages .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we we just have to find a mean how to to add a m a a a microphone or uh well {disfmarker} yes a microphone into the the remote control , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm , I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think i {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it will be alright . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} If it's necessary can {disfmarker} you can do that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What is the teletext ? Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We can integrate small microphone in the remote",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so it's not really a problem .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What about lighting adaptive options ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah as discussed in the earlier meeting , but {vocalsound} I think uh not much people are really interested in this point if it's not really required .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "According to the re to the new requirements I think we don't need that . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It is interesting but we are only concerned with the remote controller .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you need s special T_V_ sets to do that ? Or it's it's done via this remote controller ? It's very complex .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think it's a bit complex too {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean {disfmarker} yeah , it's for the um industrial design and users interface designers to decide if it's going to be working or not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For our next product , our new T_V_ set with uh automatical uh sound adjustment {vocalsound} light {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , then we can conclude that . Yeah . Yeah , but it's quite possible but maybe not in this project .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we have {disfmarker} I think we have s still we have couple of minutes . Mm-mm . {vocalsound} So any things to to discuss ? Or any suggestions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think as I discussed th that four points would be good for um marketing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The speech interface and uh less uh reasonable uh cost .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Expensive . Price .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the lighting adaptation",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and the teletext . And regarding the teletext uh these are the subtitl these are the text information which you got on the televisions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If you are watching an foreign movie , you get {gap} subtitles sometimes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh if you are a French guy watching an English movie you would like to have it in French .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And if I am a German then I would like to have the {disfmarker} my options in German .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , the remote {disfmarker} it should have some {disfmarker} it should give me some flexibility of choosing the ch languages .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Function .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That should be a good uh point .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but well what about the the new project's requirement ? I I I think we should give up with teletext , no ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we we can we {disfmarker} {gap} is the {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Well , so maybe we we can j we can already think uh {vocalsound} about a way to to access the internet via the television .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because if {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Using the T_V_ to access the internet ? Or what ? I didn't quite understand {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh we can think that in a few years there will be T_V_ set that can access the internet .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So it's a good idea if i i if we i if if we uh think about how to to to build up our remote uh control w with this functionality in a {disfmarker} w which will c which will come in a few years .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We already have some {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So if we already have it in our remote control {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So you have to anticipate the the future ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} The future demand , market demand . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , to desi",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "well , not not to implement it , but to {disfmarker} well , to find a way to to add to add this functionality in a {disfmarker} yeah , in an in an easy manner , if is possible . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The functionality in the future .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "In future .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright . Yeah . Because all the T_V_ sets will be digital , right . All the programmes , everything will be in digital than analog . Th the system will change and we have to anticipate for those change .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So let's go for the the lunch break , and we will meet after .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Thank you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
IS1007c | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"3",
"48"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation on the components concept of industrial design"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"49",
"163"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation about system design of user interface"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"164",
"487"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about specific details connected with market interests"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"488",
"498"
]
],
"topic": "The end of the meeting"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The team discussed the conceptual design and some specific details in this meeting. Industrial Designer talked about the components concept of industrial design, such as the different choice of energy and the different material of the remote control. The team would find out which one to use in the future. User Interface designer gave the presentation about system design, mainly about programme design for different users and to help them use the device. Then the team decided to discuss the marketing part at first, then discuss what to design. Marketing talked about specific details found in the market survey. The team agreed to use fancier design, less buttons and focus on voice recognition. They would find out whether using LCD on remote controls was too expensive or not. Team members agreed to use a voice commander and fixed charger, which would prevent the remote control getting lost. Then the team talked about the set of vocabularies for the speech recogniser.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The team talked about using a battery on the remote control and discussed different types of energy, they would find out if the kinetic metal was sufficient to provide enough energy. As to the shape of the remote control, there should be a curve which would fit into users' hands when they grab the remote control. They discussed material used to design the case of remote control, such as plastic or titanium, but they were still discussing which one should be used.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the components concept of industrial design.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"3",
"48"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The team could choose from the basic battery, kinetic battery and solar energy. Solar energy would not work in a cluttered environment. Kinetic battery was the one people could recharge by themselves. The team would find out if the kinetic metal was sufficient to provide enough energy.",
"query": "What did the team agree about kinetic battery when talking about the components concept of industrial design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"7",
"42"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Titanium case was trendy and modern. Users would be happy with it. But the team was still not very sure about the material of the case.",
"query": "What did team members say about the titanium case when talking about the components concept of industrial design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"16"
],
[
"43",
"48"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The team discussed a marketing survey about remote controls. They agreed to design remote controls with more fancy outlook and less buttons. The remote control should be easier to find and less complicated so users take less time to learn the functionality of it and the team discussed how to implement this function. They also talked about voice recognition and the scroller button. Then they agreed to design a child lock. Users could open child lock by pressing the button with some code. At last they discussed the set of vocabularies for the speech recogniser. They decided to put numbers and words in the vocabulary. But they realized that it would be a challenge to make the speech recogniser distinguish between different voices and deal with noises and they would keep on discussing it.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about specific details connected with market interests.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"164",
"487"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The team decided that the remote control would beep if it got lost. Also, the remote control would be put on the fixed charger if users did not use it, so it would be hard to get lost.",
"query": "What did the team decide on how to make the remote control easier to find when discussing specific details connected with market interests?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"317",
"366"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer proposed that the team could have just numbers for channels and the speech recogniser should be able to distinguish between different voices and deal with noises.",
"query": "What did Industrial Designer propose when discussing the set of vocabularies for the speech recogniser when discussing specific details connected with market interests?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"403",
"487"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "So we come to the third meetings . I have {gap} good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um so in the last meeting we have discussed the functional design and now we will talk about the conceptual design . So we will talk about some specific details .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay so I think I will do my presentation on the components concept so can you please uh open uh {disfmarker} I'm participant two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Components design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay so uh the first thing uh I have done is to to made a review together with the uh manufactural uh department and have which components was uh available to build a remote control . So for energy sources we have we have to choose between the solar energy , hand dynamo and uh kinetic um well uh kinetic uh technique {vocalsound} to to store the energy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We also um {vocalsound} we also can put a regular battery in the in the remote control . Now {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh this is what we have decided in the last meeting . But if we use battery {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah b uh f well uh I meant uh by by battery I meant uh I will not have a uh a wire between the remote control and the energy source but uh I didn't fou we didn't decide yet which kind of battery we will put inside the the remote . So uh it's a point to discuss . Then uh the case material we have uh uh also several choices , like wood , rubber , titanium or latex . {vocalsound} But uh well it's not a a re uh well a real issue for the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} from the technical uh point of view . Concerning the interface uh we can we can put mm just simple buttons or scrolls or buttons uh much more complicated , but it also requires that the chip to process the button is more complicated so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And uh this is the last point , the choice of chips . So what I have f found is that I think basic battery or kinetic uh energy uh collection is the is the better way to provide energy because I think solar energy wi won't work {vocalsound} in a cluttered uh {vocalsound} uh environment .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So um so I think we can start with these two main things . For the case uh well uh I think that uh titanium is um is a good choice because it's trendy and it's uh it's uh well it's modern and uh user are are are {disfmarker} mm will be uh very happy to have a {vocalsound} a a nice remote . For the interface uh I think that we can ach achieve uh all the desired functionalities by s just uh using uh rubber buttons , simple buttons and th thus this allow to use a regular chip {vocalsound} that are uh well cheaper . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And s so uh we can move to the next slide .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sorry .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What is this single curved {disfmarker} what does it mean ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well uh uh i i it's uh it's the the shape of the um of the remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it's it's not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You you will have the {disfmarker} well um the the curve will fit into your hand when you grab the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yo l yeah . When you hold on it , it is comfortable to hold .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's more confog f comfortable that if these uh it's completely flat .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah . And the battery , is it kind of a rechargeable or it doesn't matter ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the um that's the point . The kinetic one is uh y you can recharge uh by the um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That that's what it means by kinetic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah and by {disfmarker} well by just by moving the ar uh your arm the mm well the remote will uh accumulate energy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Mm-hmm . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I d I don't know it's {disfmarker} if it is feasible because I don't know if yet if if the user will move enough to provide the remote um all the necessary energy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} Mm . Okay . Yeah . Yeah . We we might check with our R_ and D_ department to see if they have this product {vocalsound} ready for market . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} And {disfmarker} yeah and so can you go to the next slide please . So and uh that's uh that summarize well what I have said .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm mm . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Wha",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So uh you're right we can uh see in our uh R_ and D_ uh {vocalsound} if the kinetic metal is sufficient to provide enough energy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah the department . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} So I um keep in touch with the R_ and D_ department .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I take care , it's all right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So the titanium case is the normal case that {disfmarker} I'll show you some pictures that I have and you tell me whether they are titanium case or not .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} All right . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Cause I am not very sure , plastic , titanium or whatever . There's another point I want to make , is that the uh {disfmarker} well you've seen them I le na my presentation that um I point out some {disfmarker} why buttons are not the mm not the only ways you can {vocalsound} use {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah , maybe n",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We will , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} So the user interface is uh i it uses the aspect uh of a computer system , a programme which can be seen or heard or otherwise perceived by the human user",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and the commands and mechanism the user uses to control its operation and input data . So you s this gives you the ways to input data and we have uh {disfmarker} we are more {disfmarker} we emphasise more on the graphical user interface here . The idea is to represent buttons as figures , diagrams , symbols and on so you you can easily when you look at the symbols you understand what it is doing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What's the function of this button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . So .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it makes the the interface really {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ea easy to use . So next one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Graphical user interface {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} function five . So I can use the button , the mouse maybe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A graphical user interface emphasise the use of pictures .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So next line . So the {disfmarker} here are some examples . So they cluster the buttons together . They group them into col they colour them and uh they have different forms as well . Mm but this interface are kind of confusing . Uh basically there are too many buttons . Right . Next one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So some people are propose voice recognition and so {disfmarker} ah by the way I receive an email from the from one our departments saying that the voice recognition has been used in the coffee machine {vocalsound} for this by a company",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "when you tell the {disfmarker} you say good morning coffee machine and the machine are reply to you . So I just got an email saying that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm mm mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And it seems like this voice recognition technology is ready to be used so we might consider that , supposedly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah fine .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The next one . Mm so somebody {disfmarker} some people use uh some people use a spinning wheel th with the L_C_ display so instead of using the mm buttons you have a L_C_D_ screen and then there you can u you can use that as buttons , you can use that as real {disfmarker} so so that could be an option as well . Touch screen , I mean .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Next one . And some people propose a scroll button . Integrated with push buttons or you may have scroll button instead of p just the push button . Like the one we have here . Uh , next one . So mm",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so there are a few aspects that I collected here . So s basically this deals with special users , children , handicapped people , old people , and uh mm and prog basically they are programmable , specially for children . And uh mm {disfmarker} yeah yeah . And then they also secure uh covers , to protect uh secure and hidden programming and battery covers that will protect your settings . So {disfmarker} But we don't have to integrate all these complicated features . I'm just saying that the {disfmarker} currently in the market there are there are control there are remote controllers f {gap} customisable for different people . Yeah , so that's the point . The next one . And uh you see this is the one where you have the protection cover . Mm maybe useful for children , they migh you you they only see the buttons outside . And for adults wh where you have more control you can see the one inside . So the adults might wanna have a key to lock that to pr so children will not touch the button inside .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S a good idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The next one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So this guy {disfmarker} this is another company that provides big buttons . At {disfmarker} I see that that is useful for old people and then you don't get it lost . But for our product we don't need a big one because you have voice recognition e eventually with use .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And you can call your remote controller if you don't know where it is .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} T_V_ remote controller where are you ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then , he will beeps and to say that I am here , {vocalsound} for example .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} We should include speech synthesis in this case , no ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is it possible ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but uh as Norman say if uh there is uh already a commercial product available who t who do this we we can check uh to integrate it i into our uh new remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . And uh , this is another one where you can uh {disfmarker} the the the part that's a V_ standing for the volume . So there's a up arrow and a down arrow . But you the see that in the V_ , the V_ appears to be the down arrow on the top {disfmarker} on the top up arrow {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "up arrow there's a V_ like as as if it's turning down so it's confusing interface , so I wanna avoid this kind of thing in the design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And here are {disfmarker} is uh here is a s short summary that I summary that I compiled after the findings I found . Big buttons are convenient , voice recognition helps , push buttons , scroll buttons , spinning wheels can be used as navigation tools . And uh user customisable is important and finally simplicity simplicity is the key . Yeah . So {vocalsound} we have many concepts there",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but we have to choose later on which ones are important to be used .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And basically uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I {vocalsound} I think you it's it's it's fine you have uh reviewed all all the possibilities",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but uh uh well uh i if we consider that uh the user interface is displayed on the T_V_ screen I don't think we nee uh we need much buttons in the remote",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "since we we just have to navigate and to have a okay or enter key or things like that ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because uh adding wheels or scrolls uh makes the thing more complicated and more expensive also , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe we can include the user manual in the in the remote control {gap} and we should have just a button like help and you say uh and you ik you press the button help and maybe you see the the user m might in the in the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's a good idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "To have a help button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A help button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you are display on the screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "On T_V_ T_V_ screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} on the T_V_ screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On the T_V_ screen . On the T_V_ screen the uh how to use your remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So just you push the button",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and we will {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that eliminates all the complicated documentation {gap} ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "okay . So wi",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But people are often enough looking at the help ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If the if {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "once they see the help button they say oh this is a complicated stuff .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No {vocalsound} In the case where they need help , in the case where they need help .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a psychology .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} In a marketing point of view .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And let us see what the market demands .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We could just go to my presentation .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} uh wel well I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's just for user customizable , for kids or old people .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean it just showed us the remote with an cap which could be used for kids and if you remove the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it's the same {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Same remote with some {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Can be used by both kids and old people .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Both yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} Well uh what I s propose is that uh you know a remote controller , i {vocalsound} it could be a cube ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "is uh a small device that uh looks like a cube and maybe you can just change the {vocalsound} um the buttons , if you ch turn one side you get one one buttons , you turn the other side you get the other buttons , so for maybe new generation people who get used to the computer they want lots of controls . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe for kids , kids they like uh t no l they like to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Small {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh well .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So le le let's see what uh what {vocalsound} people want .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Let's see the market demand .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then we can decide what what we can {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What what {gap} market {disfmarker} yes yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we just made an marketing survey of what people need from our remotes and how it could be special from the other remotes . And we got the best on the responses from the questionnaires . Uh we also have some prizes for the most creative solutions . And we found the following solutions which we could {disfmarker} which would be helpful for our design . So seventy percent of the users , they find their remote controls very ugly , they don't find it pleasant to use in the size or usage or anything . And eighty percent of the people they are always l I mean they are willing to spend more money if the remote control would look fancy . And the current remote controls do not match well the operating behaviour of the user . And seventy five percent of the users said they zap a lot .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And fifty percent say they use only ten percent of the buttons ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so the rest of the ninety percent of the buttons they're not used most of the times .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So this were the findings which we found . And also they cited frustrations with the present remote controls . Most of {disfmarker} fifty percent of the time the remote controls are lost somewhere in the room and people are always searching for them {vocalsound} rather than watching the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And by the time they found the remote control the program is finished .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {vocalsound} they're frustrated a lot {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And um if the remote control is too complicated it takes much time to learn the functionality of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm , the functionalities yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So you can just see the percentage , fifty percent people they responded that they always lose their remotes and thirty four percent they say that it's quite difficult to learn if it's too complex .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So keeping in view all these findings and the frustrations I think this should be the solution for them . We should have an L_C_D_ on the rem remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well mm w well I I I don't really see the advantage of having uh L_C_D_ on the on the remote control if we have a a a big screen and uh display on the screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Big screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah of course it's fancy trendy and so on but it's it's expensive to produce {vocalsound} and it's not really {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean as our survey says that people are willing to pay more if their remotes are fancy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So if we have a L_C_D_ on the remote , rather than looking onto the T_V_ you just look into a remote and navigate it . It's the same menu as we have saw that iPod remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . The thing {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We just {vocalsound} play around",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but when you play with the iPod you don't have {vocalsound} a big screen in front of you , s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can use this screen instead of the big se screen ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "instead of use the {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you re-use the existing screen , we element {disfmarker} eliminate the L_C_D_ , after all the L_C_D_ just to display",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and if you have the colourful screen you can make the display colourful , fancy , as fancy as the one on the L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "maybe even better .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean this were the points which we got from the market demands .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I th I I {vocalsound} well I think we we can focus on the uh on the fancy look on the uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . More on a fancy design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah that's fine .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "on the speech recognition if the technology is available",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I mean that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but well I think L_C_D_ will uh will uh make us spend a lot of money for not so big results .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Remember we have a s budget for the cost of producing the remote controller .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So i is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah we have uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so the thing is you can find out how much an L_C_D_ will cost and then we'll decide again . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I mean that should be found out by the Industrial Designers . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe you can find out the price and tell us next time {gap} . Is i if i",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So price of uh L_C_D_ display .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And it's always good to have an voice recognition for the remote controls .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And also the cost for the speech recognition .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . It's for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ask our R_ and D_ department .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's just for small vocabulary . We {disfmarker} it's not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's o only for a limited vocabulary ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And ho",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "say eighty commands or so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And also the scroller button , how much will it cost . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker} Well uh compared to the to s the simpl simpler simplest button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Push push {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , the scroll button , {gap} from the survey we never see that people would like to have some scrolling button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah I think that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because they they just they're just frightened to use the scrollings or {vocalsound} help button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I I I think that uh well uh as we have seen in the in the presentation uh well uh about uh uh fifty percent of the of the percent n choose the button",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Don't use the buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so uh I think to have uh five uh simple button is sufficient for our functionality .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't mean that the other buttons are not necessary or important .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Important .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But they are just less used compar",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "They're not used much .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But the uh the thing is is i is that we can add a functionality on the on the T_V_ screen",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "like uh a a list of function",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then you choose with the with the button to {disfmarker} well you navigate",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . So so the at most {disfmarker} more power uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe we can u uh or maybe we can uh make this the ten percent of button more bigger than the others .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But if i i if we if we could have a a a display uh g a user interface that is very complete on the T_V_ screen {vocalsound} I think that just five buttons are sufficient ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "one to go up left right down and uh enter",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and you you you just select the functionality you want to access or things like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You don't have to to switch to a channel to another uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or it could be like this , as the people say , if they have a L_C_D_ on the remote not on the television . Because when you have the L_C_D_ onto the television screen you miss the picture in the background , we are most focused on the commands .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So if you have then L_C_D_ in the remote , you just have a menu , and increasing and lower these signs here to change the programs and this menu when you press the menu , in the L_C_D_ displays as you go on pressing the menu it faster displays volume , then the program , then the brightness , contrast and all the stuff .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} Yeah but if you look at the L_C_D_ you you don't look at the T_V_ screen",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And accordingly you can just increase or decrease .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so {vocalsound} i i it's not really worth to get {disfmarker} to have the image if you don't look at , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I if {disfmarker} Mm . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I think it's increases the cost of the the remote control if you use L_C_D_ . I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that has to be checked out .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think that there's no contradiction here , because if there are few buttons , you don't have to look at your your controller any more because you know where the buttons are , so if you wanna control the screen d sh sharpness you just say sharpness",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then you t turn {disfmarker} you just press lef increase or decrease button",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and the same for the volume and the channel , {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "if you had the speech recognition there you just shout your channel , just tell your channel and then you don't even have to look at the butto at the controller so finally that wil eliminates the the need for L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "with the help of speech recogniser you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean , {gap} better if we could just check all the cost with L_C_D_",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and also with the speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then we could find which would would be a more suitable in this case .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm . {vocalsound} Yeah . A and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the third problem was to find the remote control . Always , so fifty percent of the people say they lose the remotes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well so we we can think about a well a a vocal command like uh find",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {vocalsound} when the remote control uh hears fine well yeah just uh to make him beep or t",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You will listen to a peep , {vocalsound} special peep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Where {gap} , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah that's right , that's exactly what I mean by voice commander .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or it could be also something like this ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "uh it's always boring to change the batteries of the remotes control ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so we have some one charger there and whenever we don't use the remote control we put it in the charger .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Put it back at the charge .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Put {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And when we're using that t remote and if we misplace somewhere , in the charger we have a small button , and just by pressing the button in the charger the uh remote control beeps , wherever it is .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And that's a good idea , that's simple , like in phones .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean it doe it also doesn't require a voice command ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But you don't you don't have to move the the charger .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because there are problems with a voice command .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Mm . {vocalsound} Th yeah . Mm yeah . Yeah . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You have to keep it {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean charger would be fixed",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because it's always with electricity plugged .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah if there if there uh there is nuff not enough battery . Also and uh uh the remote is lost .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . There's {disfmarker} mm . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That {disfmarker} we can {disfmarker} what we can do is we can program a function whereby when you press the switch off T_V_ button , the off button , the remote there be s uh instruction on the screen , please charge charge me . You never get it lost",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because uh every time you're off the computer {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the T_V_ you are asked the the command the T_V_ com remote controller would tell you to put it back to where {disfmarker} to the charger .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's an good reminder ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So you will never get lost {gap} {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe for some people {gap} {vocalsound} lazy people .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah because everything is programmed inside .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's it's uh it's all about strategy , y",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And of course the final point is a fancy look .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "As we have seen earlier the remotes which were displayed by Norman they weren't fancy ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They were ugly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean mm very big or something with lot of buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} They {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think we should have something {disfmarker} it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well the last one with the um {vocalsound} yeah with the two parts was uh {gap} original , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "With uh two two two parts controller .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean {gap} uh I mean uh I mean uh you see if it's like that even a kid who wants to have a control he could just plug it and {vocalsound} use it , you can't avoid him .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But you can have an button for child lock .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So just by pressing the button with some code , you t you put a lock onto the remote , so that he can't use even {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm . Mm . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well we can think about uh having uh on the on the on the user interface when you switch on the T_V_ you can uh well write a code or choose a category , if it is kids , uh things like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe you have to to show some specific programmes for kids and then just just {disfmarker} yeah just push uh kids button so it's automatically",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {gap} these are probl yeah . Mm . Mm . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . So if he {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think these other four points they're the market demands and so it's for the user interface design and industrial design to just think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So for mm {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah . So for my part I will check the prices the um the prices difference uh of what to use , where to use , and s uh and so on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think it should be clearer for us in the next meeting that th uh these {gap} could be included .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} I think we need to define also a s the set of vocabularies for the speech recogniser",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because uh if you want {gap} uh say we can sort by channels or sort by T_V_ programs , you have to decide a category of vocabularies for them . If numbers , they're easy ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but if {gap} name the channel by by name {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I think we can we can have just numbers for channels and you can say to your remote control like uh sports and then on the T_V_ you have a list with with uh uh well with sports program playing now",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , we have a problem there . You see uh if you have a voice commands and you are s you are watching a score on uh {disfmarker} basketball score or something , and if the score comes twenty four thirty five , you've just say twenty five",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and suddenly {vocalsound} the screen the channel goes to twenty five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's right , yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I think there should be a prefix to some numbers {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well but well e every possible word uh has a probability to come about of the T_V_ so . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean the the {disfmarker} you just check all the probability that saying T_V_ twenty five and just ordinary twenty five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ordinary twenty five you almost there's a probability of being said around sixty seventy percent",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but well {disfmarker} okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and T_V_ twenty five I dunno it will be round about one or two percent .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So it's better to have some prefix {gap} before the number .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I I I think that the user would like wou would like to associate the channel or call the channel rather than than the numbers .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah something , some code .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You say numbe channel number five of the T_V_ correspond to something else in the channel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So some people may want to say , I want to see this channel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm mm . Well I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That will be too big .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it will be difficult for the vocabulary also .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Check with the v R_ and D_ department the capability of recogniser .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's difficult to to just say the the name of the channel . It will be difficult to say just the name of the channel .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because you have to s t uh a ch",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , it's convenient for the user .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah but you have to to have all the name of the channel in your vocabulary .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Als might be you just forgot the channel name , you kno only know the number .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe the user can create his own vocabulary ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} uh uh mm . {vocalsound} Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "just pronouncing the the name of channels and include in the vocabulary .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I I think that I have {disfmarker} mm mm {vocalsound} I think there's another way you can do is that uh you can uh {vocalsound} if {disfmarker} when the user ch press a button to choose the channel for example , then what you can do is that the {disfmarker} you can make the T_V_ screen to split them into small little little squares of images where you you you have a snapshot of every channel , so let's say it's a four by four matrix of the images , so now what you do is f looking at the all the sixteen channels available at one time , you just use the control button uh , you just you you just choose the the option you want",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and then you just hit the button and then you go to that channel . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or lets the user create his own vocabulary of channel .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . So you you don't use the speech recogniser in that way .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . Just you have uh in the beginning you have uh t you have to train {disfmarker} you have to create the vocabulary by yourself .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I uh I also {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "By associating each channel with the name or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I I also think about uh another problem , if if there is uh more than one person who is watching T_V_ {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And for each one has his own . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the s well the the speech uh r recogniser should be able to distinguish between the two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because uh I remember when I was a {vocalsound} young child with my sister we {disfmarker} yeah we always want to w to watch different emission at the at the same time",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or you have to s {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I wanna watch this , I wanna watch that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so it's a pr it could be a problem if uh if well if someone passes by when you are watching T_V_ and say oh T_V_ thirty {vocalsound} and just run , s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A and in the same lines we would have a {disfmarker} one more problem . If we are using the television in the different environments , say in the factories or in the shops where there is a lot of noise and this voice commands if they fail to work , that would bring a bad name {disfmarker} bad uh reputation for our company .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I think we should specify some pre-requirements if we want to use a voice commands , say that it should be used in an silent homely environment or s something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or we can switch on or switch off the the special {gap} , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's right that should be an option .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's {disfmarker} well I think that's a good uh a good option because it's simple and uh simple to implement also , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think these are the practical problems . So we need to take care of them in the design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we'll discuss them in next meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's time to close this meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , you you stay a five minutes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah {gap} . {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh it came there on three minutes back so we are {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I think we can just press the okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thanks for your collaborations .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I see ya .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . See you another thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
IS1007d | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"271"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation about two versions of the prototype"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"272",
"556"
]
],
"topic": "Evaluation of two versions and further discussion"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"557",
"621"
]
],
"topic": "Project evaluation"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer and User Interface gave a presentation about two versions of the prototype, one with and one without LCD. They both had a speech recognition system, microphone, a few number of buttons, rechargeable batteries and different modules. The prototype with LCD was too expensive, while the other one was quite cheap. Marketing made evaluation criteria. The scale included fancy look and feel, innovativeness and easy to use. Then Marketing asked Industrial Designer and User Interface to give scores towards two versions of the prototype according to the scale. Both Industrial Designer and User Interface gave average points to look and feel, high points to innovativeness and to easy to use. At the end of the meeting, group members did project evaluation. They felt good about leadership and teamwork.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer and User Interface gave a presentation about two versions of the prototype, one with and one without LCD. As for the one with LCD, users could choose the direction and if they pushed on it, it's considered like an enter function. There was also a button which was like a mouse. This prototype had microphone arrays for the speech recognition system and switch for controlling. The remote control needed rechargeable batteries, but the type and the number of batteries were not sure. This prototype cost fifteen dollars and it was high above the budget. The second prototype was basically the same as the first one. However, it used buttons to navigate and enter. This one cost four dollars. The remote control had different modules for different groups of people. The set might use a material like titanium or lithium. User Interface said that features which cost much could be optional so the price could be flexible. Project Manager said that the cost of the whole second plan was below the budget.",
"query": "Summarize the presentation about two versions of the prototype.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"271"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The switch for controlling was around the microphone, so the microphone could easily put up the speeches from anywhere. The microphone was in the side, so when users were browsing the LCD they would not be close to the microphone. Industrial Designer said that the place could be adjusted.",
"query": "What did Industrial Designer put the microphone and the switch on the side of the set when discussing two versions of the prototype?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"23",
"43"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The product would have basic functions and if users wanted more they need to pay more. For example, if users wanted LCD and speech recognisers with the microphone, they would pay more, else they could just buy the simpler one.",
"query": "Why did User Interface say that it's pretty flexible in the price when talking about two versions of the prototype?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"174",
"192"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing made evaluation criteria. The first thing was fancy look and feel, the second was innovativeness, the third was easy to use. Then Marketing asked Industrial Designer and User Interface to give scores towards two versions of the prototype according to the scale. Both Industrial Designer and User Interface gave three or four points to look and feel, six points to innovativeness and also six points to easy to use. The team decided to make the remote control without LCD and to improve the design to make it fancy. They would have all the functions in the same set, but some functions, like speech recognition, would be optional. The team would look into the shape and material of the set.",
"query": "Summarize the evaluation of two versions and further discussion.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"272",
"556"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "If one remote control had a children module and another one had not, maybe parents would easily lose the one with children module. Those modularities increased the production cost, so having all functions in the same set could be cheaper.",
"query": "Why did the team agree to have all functions in the same set in the evaluation of two versions and further discussion?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"476",
"510"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The remote control might be made into fruit or vegetable types. So the team might have to change some components, but it would not cost much. The PCB would be the same for all, but only the exterior shape was different for all. They could propose the customers with skins. The team would look into the material.",
"query": "What did the team say about the shape of the remote control when talking about the evaluation of two versions and further discussion?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"531",
"556"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So in last meeting we have discussed the conceptual design and we asked you to prepare a prototype for the for the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So {gap} . {vocalsound} So let's see the {disfmarker} what did you prepare .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so can you go out to the shared folder ? Mm the shared folder .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sh share folder for th your presentation ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . We have a presentation .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because I have here {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} {gap} So I got the participant uh three . W uh {vocalsound} . Three . It's the final design , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay just one {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} S so so I discussed with Guillaume .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right . {vocalsound} And uh {vocalsound} so we have {vocalsound} {disfmarker} and we we are both agreed on some two versions of the prototypes , because we were no not decided whether we wanted to have an L_C_D_ or not because it's too expensive . So we come up with two versions . One with and one without L_C_D_s . Um but both comes with a charger and then detachable and uh or {gap} control module . And detachable big buttons for all people um . So {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} S okay so I'll show you the the two prototypes {vocalsound} . Here we have the first one with the beautiful uh L_C_D_ um display . You you can s here . And you can uh just um browse into the the navigation menu by uh joystick joystick-like uh button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can uh choose the direction and if you just push on it it's considered like a enter function .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You have on the mm on the side here the microphone for the {vocalsound} for the speech recognition system here .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And here the the switch that control if you want {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Why you why you you put it in the the side ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I I I think uh it's the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's not a good place maybe {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No i i it's the all around camer uh microphone isn't it . The the microphone picks up the speeches from anywhere .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is it an only a single mic or a microphone array ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well so it's a microphone array .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh it's very costly , microphone array {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's just a single microphone , and you {disfmarker} I I think uh we we put it here because I think when you when you are browsing your L_C_D_ you will be close to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "well it's better to to to place it here th than here , for instance .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And here is a little switch that control if you want the the speaker uh recognition system to um to be on or off . And uh so this remote control comes up with its charger .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How much does it cost this one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well this this prototype is um made for about uh well fi fi fifteen fifteen dollars",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Fifteen dollars ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} fifteen dollars ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah it's above it's above the budget .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but uh well it's not it's not uh {disfmarker} yeah , but uh it's just a prototype and if we uh if we optimises the um the uh {disfmarker} voila .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The cost would be le reduced .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the {gap} and the the production costs we we can achieve uh about ten dollars . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "How many b battery is there ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How many , excuse me ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Battery .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well uh f battery , we use uh about uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is it n the two A_A_s batteries in it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A_A_ rechargeable batteries .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Rechargeable of course ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah rechargeable batteries .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because we have the charger .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We have the charger so it's no problem .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and you just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So one one battery ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "On uh yeah one battery .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is that two or one ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's kinetic reserve .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Actually uh it's a flexible thing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You just n uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Now what is the whole day rating for that ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} excuse me ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Whole day's rating .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What type of battery ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah it's just a r uh simple battery a rechargeable uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "if you uh like it's exist .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Something like a two A_ , A_ three size batteries ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So and if you want to charge the battery you just put the remote control like that to plug in the the charger",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh leave it uh alone , it's alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} At uh {vocalsound} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then the next time you pick it , oh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it works {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I forgot to tell you there is only a single button there , b this button {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah just explain the button uh Norman .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah alright . This button is like the mouse {disfmarker} is like a joystick ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you can move in three hundred and sixty degrees of direction so you can make a turn and it {disfmarker} the additi functions associated to all the actions you ma you have a click you have a double click all in a single button {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can move up , down , left , right , or you can do a swing . So a swing to the left , a swing to the right defines other functions . So even though it's a single button , but it is pretty s flexible because of the three hundred and sixty degree movement {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the L_C_D_ is this one , on the remote ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . This is the version y that comes with L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Here I present another version without the L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it's not a good idea because after maybe one or two months of function is {gap} getting destroyed .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If you",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay this is new prototype uh {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we have the the second version also with the different uh button configuration . The second version is also simpler , we d uh we had just uh I have to put the microphone also {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So basically th it's the same uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh and also the switch .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Basically it's the same uh things uh uh as uh I presented before . But here we have uh we have uh four buttons for navigation . Press one button uh acting as a a enter button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So um yeah according to what you said it's more robust to the user .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh it's also cheaper to produce . We can produce uh such remote control for about uh four dollars . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No four dollars , it's {vocalsound} {gap} good . {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I think you forgot a point here to have an button to find the charger ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh no",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because that's a major that's a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "th actually th we'll come to that point in our {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's it's it's embed in the uh speech recognition system .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and if you disable speech recognition system then ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "W w I'll I'll come to that point later on .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} so Norman will explain to you {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And we will we will serve the charger with this ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah of course mm {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Th they {vocalsound} either these with the {disfmarker} uh the the charger any",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "With the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "in either versions you they they ha they use the same charger yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay so the price of the charger included in the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's a standard module so you should get it for a cheap price uh {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Thank thank you {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And so mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's that same charger that you can use for the hand-phone but uh again depends on the types . I think we have to investigate more on that , but {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The price should be below twelve and a half Euro .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well that's {disfmarker} so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but as the Marketing Manager says , people is willing to {disfmarker} people are willing to pay more for good design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We have we have just {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah people are willing to pay more ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but the company is not willing to invest more at the moment .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The price of selling is twenty five Euros .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the price of production {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright please uh go on Norman with the special features {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we'll we'll come up to that , the the the thing that makes this the controller cheap is that it is modular so you want more function you pay more . If you want less function i i if you want a reasonable price you pay for the functions that you add on to the system ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so is uh modular .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's for this basis function and if you want more you pay more .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "for example the L_C_D_ , you can take it you can put it {disfmarker} put it back in , or you can use the other one ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Something like customised . Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or {vocalsound} the speech recogniser with the microphone yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You want a microphone to put in the {vocalsound} speech recogniser you don't wan you pay less for the system you see {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm hmm hmm hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's pretty flexible in the yeah price {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} You also have the the the two other modules for the parental control",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah yeah you should present that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that that you ca you can add up {vocalsound} to the {disfmarker} to your remote control",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And this is other one ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "i i if you uh if you want to to have more more power on what you do , and uh which channel you want to choose and so on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "H here is just the the the module for the kids and th if the parents want to watch T_V_ , up {disfmarker} they come up with their modules ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm hmm hmm hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "they just plug in it",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and they can have all the control they want here .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We also have this module for uh old people with big buttons , clearly labelled ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and it acts like the previous one ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you just plug in and it works .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "the i the idea the the conceptual idea is that simplicity and powerful . Simplicity meaning that we have few buttons , powerful is that all the controls with {vocalsound} the one you saw we saw earlier in the meetings with lots of buttons n but here you only have few buttons but you retain the mm the same powerful functionalities . But in addition with simplicity . So that's the best idea , the cond that that's our uh an innovation um uh i in this uh design here {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay now we come to other important features that I did not tell you . The first one is the speech recogniser , again it's detachable or add-on . And then we also have security feature for example this here {disfmarker} oop {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's very robust {gap} , it doesn't break and the material , what's the material again ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The titanium",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Titanium .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and so it's very uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Again uh and the battery life is uh is an is an endurable one , again because this is A_A_ batteries you can choose the types of battery you want .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's fine .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Lithium-ion may be a good one , but you can replace it with cheaper one , again you pay for what you get , and then um y the other p points are robust and misplacement reminder . So when you finish watching your T_V_ {vocalsound} and you the you t you turn off the T_V_ , uh and then there's this message coming out that uh please put that back to the charger , so so that's the {disfmarker} or is it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's the reminder part . Yeah and um {disfmarker} And it also use a programmable channel and vocabulary , so we didn't define the vocabulary so it's up to the user to define",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm hmm hmm hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker} sorry ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then uh because of the chil because children are using the device so we have also a a {gap} of T_V_ programmes by genre , and this can be used by the adult or by the children . So instead of choosing the channel you are choosing the T_V_ contents of the night . So it's pretty powerful , and that's that's why the num buttons are reduced , because of this feature . Yeah . And {vocalsound} and for the materials that is cheap to produce I think uh it's quite clear from {disfmarker} yeah {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And also like the {gap} and the fancy designs yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What what's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we can improve more on the design but {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What's the price to p to produce ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} uh this is the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well so the price to produce {disfmarker} For uh the simplest one , say we start from four dollars to produce such a device .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "With with with the charge ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's about it {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} without without the charger",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "With the charger ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's about uh well two dollars to produce uh the microphone and speech recognition systems .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two dollars for the uh for the add-on modules , and finally three dollars for the charger . So if you uh sum up uh everything wi with the L_C_D_ {vocalsound} , which costs two dollar , you have two plus four plus four plus two plus two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We don't have charger . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think we can use Excel {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's about {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We don't have all the options {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so the total cost if you if you want all the fuct functionalities will be about uh fifteen dollars .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Charger we don't have charger here either .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No it's",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But it's just if you want all functionalities .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's below the the the budget .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Excuse me ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's below the bu the budget .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's a nice input",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but we have an other inputs from the l public demands .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think we will just have a rough look and then we can make our statements , and we can finalise the product based on this discu",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we can just go to my presentation then . We can wind up . Or we could uh come to some f uh final conclusions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So the marketing made an evaluation criteria and these were some of the findings , and uh in the market the people are not really interested with L_C_D_ , without L_C_D_ , with speech recognition interface , or without speech recognition interface , but most of the people what they are interested is {disfmarker} first thing is , they want to have an fancy look and feel , it should be very fancy with colourful and uh very handy to hold .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the second thing is it should be much more technologically innovative .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Of course in that we could put L_C_D_ or recognition to be more technologically innovative . And the third one is easy to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I think that the technical in innovation is is in the product itself since we haven't yet a remote who are allowing to to choose interactively with the T_V_ screen uh uh with just four buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay and if we go to the next slide , here you can find {disfmarker} these are the latest fashion updates , and so this {disfmarker} in Paris and Milan {gap} they have detected this trends that the this year it's going to be an year of fruit and vegetable , so people are really interested to see if they have an remote in the shape of the fruit or a vegetable , or whatever they like .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Spongy spongy . Mm mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I think it should be much more customised to make a different uh shapes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm {vocalsound} mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the second thing is , and if the material , they really do not want it to be very hard , as in the case of very pl plastic or titanium , it should be somewhat spongy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But the the problem is that uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} is it robust to mishandling ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We have {disfmarker} you should find a material that is robust at the same time spongy {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A sponge . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so uh {vocalsound} so finally we have these three criterias .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Spongy {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "One is fancy look , second is innovative , and third is easy to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So these are the f uh three criteria on which we are going to build our remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} and we have an evaluation criteria for each one of these ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "say that we have a seven point scale , from one to seven ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and for each of the product you could just give me the scale according to this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So now you have with L_C_D_ and without L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so on this scale , if it is true , if it is {disfmarker} if it has a fancy look you could just tell me one , or if it is false , it doesn't {disfmarker} it looks uh {disfmarker} it doesn't look much fancy , then you could just tell me seven . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We can make our study on this and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so is the e evaluation depending on us or other users ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No no we have {disfmarker} you have designed two products now ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "one is with L_C_D_ and without L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But who will give the scoring uh we ourself or or a third party ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "According to you , no according to you designers , how will feel {disfmarker} does it uh with L_C_D_ and without L_C_D_ ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay let us make this L_ and without L_C_D_ . On on this scale the L_C_D_ remote control . How do you look {disfmarker} how does it look ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "D is it very fancy or doesn't look much fancy ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well it doesn't look much fancy I'll I'll say three or four .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And you both agree for that ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think we can improve on the design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Som someone um commented this is like a the stone age uh {gap} {vocalsound} design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's it it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um we have been focused all all this {vocalsound} time on the {vocalsound} on the technical aspect , functional aspect , but also the simplicity .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Technical aspects .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "As for the design maybe we c should hire a designer to help {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I take three on {disfmarker} with L_C_D_ ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah a three .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So without L_C_D_ how would you rate it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh four . I think it's it's uh more easy to make f fancy things when it's not complicated",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Four .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so removing the L_C_D_ um gives us a li more liberty to to have a fancy look .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And in the sense of innovativeness , with L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well it's it's the same for both so {vocalsound} I will give a five , six . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Five with L_C_D_ and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well five also uh {disfmarker} Norman please . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "from the innovation aspect I feel that uh what is most innovative of our prototype compared to the existing prototypes that we saw l in the last meeting is that um {vocalsound} the retrieval of T_V_ programmes by content , because uh that is really innovative , and for now {disfmarker} and another innovation we have is simplicity and {disfmarker} simplicity , few buttons , we've uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} A lot of functionalities .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "With lot of functionalities .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that is uh that is uh for both th",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So without L_C_D_ ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Our gi I think that the our our product is uh has the best in all {disfmarker} well this is a biased judgement {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because we designed them .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No no according to design aspect we want to know how would you feel the innovativeness ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Uh the innovation is v is very high I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Both .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And without L_C_D_ ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm for both it's the the same innovations .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For both . It's the same innovation . So maybe I can put six to seven .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} six , let's go for six .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Without L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Both .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No actually uh to make it with L_C_D_ you make more efforts . So I {disfmarker} there is high innovativeness included if you make it with L_C_D_ y",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "then when it is without L_C_D_ there is not much innovativeness .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh no innovative yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh uh uh there w there was a there was a issue here is that what are what is the display on the L_C_D_ ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we can't go {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Talk about {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We haven't really uh determined {vocalsound} what are {disfmarker} actually actually",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean that what you are sayin that's what the design {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's good to have a L_C_D_ but what are we gonna display on a L_C_D_ ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No it's like this ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean on the L_C_D_ , according to what I understand from your model is , you have a joystick here , and you have L_C_D_ , you just press your joystick , you get here a programme .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So let's remove it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Yeah . Yeah but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but you have the same programme on the T_V_ screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes exactly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This is the problem .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No on the T_V_ you don't it doesn't display on the T_V_ now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you have the L_C_D_ , but if n",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "L_C_D_ ? Then uh there is no meaning in having it on the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or then again you have a channels , volume and all the stuff and what a",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But you cannot display all on a L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean that depends upon your design , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Anyway for for the users who who who opt for L_C_D_ {vocalsound} we'll give them the give them the L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we give what the customer uh wants , right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So without L_C_D_ you want to put it fi the same level of innovativeness ? And which {gap} do you recommend e easy to use , with L_C_D_ or without L_C_D_ ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I think both are really easy to use because there are few button buttons ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh well t p the menu are clear , well-organised , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well with little knowing of the technology you can you can easily use the product",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so I will give a six for the easy to use .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No it's just if I I see the the f the rate I think it's better to do it without L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because that's with L_C_D_ just will increase the price ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and I thi i they have the same rate so without L_C_D_ it will be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or we can just go back to the previous slide uh where we ha we have a few updates . So I mean in the product design you could just amend it to make some few changes",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "according to fruit and vegetable or a spongy touch",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "without L_C_D_ and without speech recognition . Even then our product is going to be very good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's cheaper to produce .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} S {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh if the the {disfmarker} well if we have less technology we have more liberty to uh for the shape and uh things like that so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I have another thing to say about the easy to use aspect . I think the easy to use uh aspect is different for different people .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "For the young generation easy to use may be very complicated",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because uh they w they wants lot of controls with lots of buttons . For kids they want simply the {gap} s similarit for the old people they want simplicity ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so that's why {vocalsound} we have the parental module . Uh we can ha have {disfmarker} build a more complex design if if they want it , but but uh what I'm trying to say here is that the um {disfmarker} we have different sets of buttons for different kinds of people . So in terms of easy to use I think it's very user customisable . User customisation is very important yeah . Yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Six .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So without L_C_D_ I just take it five ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "W uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or you want it to be six ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it's the same .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um six .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes as you say , with better uh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Without L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "S s oh I think it's better to have this without L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} yeah . And to improve the the look .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "As our Programme Manager s Pro Project Manager says that without L_C_D_ it is going to reduce the cost also ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and it's going to be much simpler to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes and to give us more liberty to have a fancy look so",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so let's go back to our laboratory and {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} To improve on the design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What a what what about the sys speech recognition ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} what about the integration of speech recognition ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh ? The speech recogniser is a add-on module . Right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's going to be an optional .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If somebody wants to buy it they can have it , otherwise no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah so it's optional with the {disfmarker} okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's an optional .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's optional yeah , since well according to this study uh people more {vocalsound} likes more to have a spongy uh {vocalsound} remote control than {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it will be {disfmarker} I think i",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it will be better if we have all these modules in the same remote control , because maybe parents will lose these uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I mean if you have an add-ons , the kids may just uh hide the parental module",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Or ma yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and so that their parents can't use it {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe parents they can for forget where they put it or ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so mayb better if you have all this in the same {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In the same set , yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and and individual buttons to make them work .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The problem is if i we are bla if a customer wants a certain component , and doesn't want the parental control because it's a couple who do not have children {disfmarker} {vocalsound} when you sell the product in the market you could meet any kind of people , and not all people will need all the functionalities we propose to them . So we might lose the customer because of this . I don't know ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you mean that even if these modules will be will be functional {disfmarker} uh will be optional .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "what do you think uh ? Yes exa what do you think , I don't know . You are Marketing Manag {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean how to how to how to make a marketing survey that uh how many married couple {disfmarker} or how many couples have a T_V_",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or to the number or singles who have a television .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So based on that I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} But the the question is n does those modularity increase the production cost or decrease the production cost ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it inc increase . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well you can {gap} {disfmarker} if you had uh something li",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it i increases .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh no ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because if you if you add uh something {disfmarker} well yeah maybe because it's three different pieces uh to to to build but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But you can make it on a single P_C_ with three different options .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's I think it's cheaper if you if you already built the all the {vocalsound} functionalities um on the same module , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On the same P_C_B_",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well well the other aspect is that if {vocalsound} in the {disfmarker} when they have the ar existing product you you gonna maintain the the {disfmarker} you're gonna keep the same customer ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because the same customer will come back to buy other add-ons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean you could just provide with an optional {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah i i so if don't don't buy now they can buy i in the future . So in in that way you're actually keeping the cus the same customer , attracting them to come back in again and again .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it's something like a Microsoft product {vocalsound} update .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And and we we we we we we don't want that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We're not trying to follow the Microsoft and we don't want to the m {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Updates and we sell it . We make updates and sell it {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well if the buyers can be up the th would be {disfmarker} can be upgraded , it would be a good thing right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , it depends on the v production . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh what's the idea about uh the shape of the remote controls ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh can they be made into a fruit and vegetable types ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do you require different types of P_C_B_s and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we are {vocalsound} {disfmarker} yeah but we are also the um well the components will have to change because uh we have to deal with the shape and um {disfmarker} but I don't think it will uh increase the cost too much so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or uh it could be like this {disfmarker} the P_C_B_ would be the same for all , but only the exterior uh shape is different o for all .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh well but it's a bit complicated to {disfmarker} if if if you need machines to {disfmarker} different machines to um ah well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . What we can change is to propose the {vocalsound} customers with skins . For example the i the mobile phones nowaday , they sell different kinds of skin",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and then people just feel that oh I have a new skin and looks better .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah we can have the same global shape",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then uh add on skins and with with this uh tex spongy texture uh things like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah you can pl in what material would that be in uh ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sponge . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think you need to look into the material .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah or furry like a pet dog kind of thing {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we finished the prototype uh presentation if you have uh something else to say .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think the Project Manager would be interested to look about the financial issues in making these models .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Project evaluation project satisfaction , for example . I don't know , we have to ask these question . We have to give answers so {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} I suppose that you {gap} this criteria , is it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Project evaluation . {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Room for creativity . This room is a bit small , but {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} but I think it's okay for us to work with . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I feel it's fine , we know we don't need uh {disfmarker} I think it's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That was good .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This is fine for making a presentat for project presentations .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah anyway we have the laboratory nearby to build our modules so it's okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the leadership was excellent .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think so {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Good job {vocalsound} good job .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Fine yes uh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "He gave you the liberty to talk as you wants {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's right . Yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh the teamwork was very very good . I was really {disfmarker} I am very satisfying to work with with you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Very democratic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you {gap} {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you {gap} {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And new ideas found . Any new ideas to make these presentations more interactive and more interesting ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Come up with new product {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Less fancy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I mean uh what type of product would you think {disfmarker} could we make this more interesting ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm we {disfmarker} I I know something , we need more cakes , more biscuits on the table while we have meetings . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and also more well uh {vocalsound} more seriously I think it's it's a good idea to have uh clear clear points whenever we do a meeting",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "uh prior to the meeting to have uh well a list with the points who will be discussed or things like that , but I think it's alright . We achieved uh project goal I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "De",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "that is within the budget .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's w yes , more or less .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the evaluation was {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Without without L_C_D_ , without speech recognition , it will be simple .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright . So .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the next is celebration .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So uh coffee machine .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound} free free coffee",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Alright then , we finished ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah thank you for your work and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah thank you , thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
IS1008a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"29"
],
[
"71",
"84"
],
[
"93",
"121"
]
],
"topic": "Team building and project initiation"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"30",
"50"
]
],
"topic": "Style of remote control for television"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"59",
"65"
]
],
"topic": "Composition of the design team"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"66",
"70"
],
[
"85",
"92"
]
],
"topic": "Marketing schemes"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"122",
"149"
]
],
"topic": "Team coordination"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The team members met up for the first time to discuss the new remote control for the television. Each member introduced themselves and agreed that the product should be designed to be user-friendly. Industrial designer then proposed that the marketing plan is for the product to be fashionable and attractive. Project manager listed several subjects in need of settlement before the further discussion, including functional design, time frame, budget, product introduction marketing strategic plan and benefits for the company as well as the individuals, before he suggested more interaction among teams.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "By taking the example of iPod, Industrial Designer believed that the remote control should be fashionable so that people can instantly recognize its value and have the urge to possess one.",
"query": "What did the Industrial Designer propose about the marketing plan of the product?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"61",
"72"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "By doing research on other companies' design and ideas, Marketing pointed out that the market the remote control aimed at should be a fairly large one and that the product itself should have a brand new, attractive design and be simple to use.",
"query": "What did the Marketing recommend to do when discussing marketing strategy and why?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"83",
"92"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing pointed out that the remote control for television should be user-friendly, with a visual feature to draw the attention of customers and that new ideas should be put into thought on facilitating its usage, so that users could avoid spending too much time on the instruction menu.",
"query": "What did the Marketing suggest about remote control style in terms of marketing strategy?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"35",
"50"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project manager needed the following subjects to be presented in writing form, including functional and technical design, team scale, timeline, initial budget, cost limit, marketing strategic plan, product introduction, benefits for the company and for each individual. These matters should be determined before further discussion.",
"query": "What did the Project Manager propose in the discussion of project initiation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"71",
"79"
],
[
"93",
"103"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Because by the time the Industrial Designer introduced his product in a more thorough way, there would be a competition. Moreover, Project Manager made this request so that he could submit the documentation to the management. He hopes, in addition, that all the emails or other copies of discussions could be kept so that each member could be informed about the project proceeding.",
"query": "For what reason did the Project Manager insist that the discussion of project initiation should be kept in writing form?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"73",
"79"
],
[
"125",
"149"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project manager expressed his hope that Marketing could interact more frequently with the Industrial Designer Christine within her team, so that the two departments of sales and finance could coordinate with each other. Additionally, he would like all the teams worked together in order to take all the factors into account.",
"query": "What did the Project Manager suggest about team coordination during the process of project initiation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"93",
"98"
],
[
"122",
"126"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Oops That's as far as it goes {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hi guys uh good morning everybody here . And uh I want to introduce myself , uh my name is uh Shrida Daseri and uh I'm a project manager for this new project which we are going to discuss now . So I want to introduce first of all uh the names and the colleagues here . And what you're uh drawing ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh sure my name is Agnes and I'm an user {disfmarker} usability user interface designer .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} My name is Ed and I do accounting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh how you spell your name uh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "E_D_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "E_D_ okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do you also do marketing ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So only accounting ? Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Accounting , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I'm Christine ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and my role in this uh scenario is to be the industrial designer .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Industrial designer .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I'm not really one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So who is uh marketing , nobody in the market",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Marketing is uh , is me {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's you , okay . So thanks for coming for the meeting first of all , and uh we have a long time , just twenty-five minutes to discuss about uh this project and the the project initiation . First of all I want to ask uh Mister Ed about your uh marketing plan and your product plan and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well I think that we'll see that throughout the day in how we're going to put this together as a marketing to to market the product . We'll have to see on a through discussion on where we're gonna go from here and from {disfmarker} with this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm but uh do you already have like a functional design or a technical design or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh for the moment not yet .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh for the moment not yet , okay , but uh what's what's your uh {disfmarker} do you have some project plan , something with you or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Good question {vocalsound} . No , this is like I said that we have to be discussed between all of us and we'll go from there . We'll have to {disfmarker} simply we'll have to work on it together .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Okay , so uh by when you think you can uh give me some kind of uh project plan , okay , a discussion with uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Certainly by the next meeting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "By next meeting , okay that will be great . Uh Okay , so there's any questions or uh first of all about uh this project ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What is the goal of the project ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh the goal of the project I think maybe I'll uh hand out to the Ed , okay , so to explain uh what is the project because he's in the sales and the accounting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm in the sales I'm supposed to explain them what to do {vocalsound} . We have to define exactly what our product is , from uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , so can you explain uh what exactly the product is ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "From what I had in mind we're supposed to be marketing coffee , is that right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh I think uh , if I'm not wrong , we're making the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um I was wondering {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Remote controls , 'cause I had two different things . I had a first part of mine was to make a remote control for a new f remote control for television , and afterward I had a discussion about coffee so {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we'll start with the remote control for television then . So we're have to design something that is very user friendly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Something uh visual that has something that will will draw people to buy the product ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because I think everybody's experienced with uh remote controls , and some remote controls are are worth uh throwing out the window . Uh th most of them ar I don't know we're have to come up with a new idea on how to make it a lot easier to use ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause a lot of times uh spend uh half a day through the instruction book trying to figure out how to use it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh what abo uh Christine , what about your uh the industrial design plan ? Are you have a design already on this product or uh you're still working on the design ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um no , I I have not begun working on the design ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and um I uh I actually didn't know we were designing a remote control , I thought we were designing a new monitor . Um the website I went to look at had some announcements about an introduction of a um uh some sort of a seven inch um monitor , and um I understood that that was the project goal . So um I'm glad I didn't d do any work um ahead of time because uh I clearly didn't understand the project goal .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um I just did s see that we were starting a new project together and there was going to be a four member team composed of these people , and um that's about uh that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and I I read through the different steps , and what my responsibilities were relative to the steps .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So uh you'll be leading the team for your design team or how many members is working in the team , for the design ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh for the industrial design ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um well , I would th think that depends on how much money you give us .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um because uh , you know , you can uh you can make it uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you have different choices with different financial models .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh before we talk about uh the finance , okay , uh do you have some idea how we can uh sell this product or project in the market and how much is going to benefit to the company and uh of course it's to the individual also .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , you know um , I kind of think that in general you have to do uh um y you have to have something that's very fashionable , that's uh very attractive {disfmarker} that um people see and recognize uh its goal , and uh they immediately wanna have it uh have one of their own . So it would {disfmarker} really would need to um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} something like the iPod would be good , seems to have caught on fairly well ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so um d uh you know , I don't care what it does , just so it looks cool .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but uh uh when you think you can give me like a kind of design on the functional design or the technical design ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , uh I've got a lot of other projects I'm doing right now um and so I'll have to wait and see how those uh how those go . If they uh go quickly then uh it could be a month . If um if I run into any problems in my other projects it might be six months .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh I need something in the writing , so like uh what's your functional design , what's your technical design , and uh how many people you need for this project , and what's the time frame you're looking , okay , and what is the budget , maybe uh initial budget you're looking , okay , and uh how is going to the market , okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so you've you've had to meet with the marketing team and how they're going to market and what are the marketing strategic plan , okay , when are you going to introduce , okay , and by the time you introduce the product and uh you know there there would be a competition , okay , so I need some kind of uh uh the plan in the writing from you . Okay , and it's po",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And when would you like that ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "B as soon as possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh well if uh if we have enough time uh then d do you think um two weeks is a {disfmarker} is close enough ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes I think uh that would be good , because I need to go to the management and uh tell them what we are going to do , and uh what cost is , okay , and what's the time frame and what's the project plan , because uh without any uh documentations , I cannot go to the management and say , so we are going to do this and we need this much money , okay , so then it's it's difficult for me to say , okay , that's the reason I need uh some kind of plan from you , initially , okay , then we can have the further discussion again .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {vocalsound} are there other people who will be contributing to the plan ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , of course , if you need some help , uh so let me know . So , who are the people you need uh from the marketing or uh the technical side or uh the administration point of view , okay , to add in any documentation , or some technical point of view ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so just let me know so I can uh coordinate all the teams .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I'll get back to you on that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Thank you . Okay . And uh Ed uh so what's {disfmarker} what do you think about uh this uh project for the remote control and d do you have some already planned something for your marketing strategy or uh the sales strategy ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well not yet other than uh doing research and taking remote controls and looking what other companies have to do uh , what they're building , their designs , their ideas ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh also have to pinpoint which market we're gonna go into .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It should be a fairly large market because uh the number of people that uh {disfmarker} the competition ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh th I agree it has to be something {disfmarker} it has to be something new , it has to be something that that draws people saying eh , I like this . Whether it works or not , they have to first say I like this , I like the design , and then it's gotta be simple to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , so what I uh prefer maybe uh you need to interact uh more with the Christine , okay , because you know what she is going to do it , okay , and you know how to sell it . Okay , because uh she is doing the design , but you are the core because you are in the marketing , okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so because you need to sell {disfmarker} and you're the responsible for the all the money , the finance , okay , tomorrow .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , what I prefer , okay , so you need to interact with the Christine more and uh within her team , okay , who is using the functional design or technical design , okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh you need to come up with some kind of plan , okay , how we are going to do the {disfmarker} your sales plan , okay , th",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do we already have a cost limit on this , th an idea of how much uh we want to market this for , how much it's gonna sell for ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Th That {disfmarker} that's",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "that's up that's up to us to decide , eh ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , that's {disfmarker} you have to decide , okay , so the best thing is you {disfmarker} uh both of uh the Christine and you discuss with yourself , okay , and come up with the cost , and how we are going to compete in the market , okay , in the the technically , or in the sales wise , okay , the commercial wise , okay . Then uh we have to design , okay , how long it will take the whole project , okay , how much is going to cost us , and how much we are going to benefit for the company . Okay , of course it's it's uh of benefit for everybody individually . Okay , so I think it's uh maybe if we can uh give me some kind of your uh the sales plan , okay , including the technical what uh she's going to talk to you within the team , okay , then it will help me to discuss with the management for further , okay , and put it in the the proper project plan . Okay , and if you need uh any coordination in between uh compared to the maybe the some technical vendors or commercial vendors , okay , depends if you want to have some uh uh marketing plan or technical plan , okay , so you let me know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Very good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I can coordinate ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Very good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or maybe uh , you are my coordinator , am I right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Between uh all the coor",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , no , not exactly . I mean my job from what I understood was to look at the usability requirements and make sure that the product is usable , it's acceptable to the people who are gonna use it and look at the best ways to do that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I think I'll have to interact with Christine and discuss with her , so that she's not designing something that my studies will show right off the bat that it's not going to work ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Th Christine , yeah {vocalsound} . Which is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and so it's sort of {disfmarker} it's a loop that feeds in , but I don't think necessarily that I'm in a coordinating position for it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yeah , so basically you need to interact with Christine more , okay , for the user acceptability , okay , and the testing , okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "then you will {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which will also feed into the marketing ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because depending on what users want , depends on how you sell it , what tag lines you attach to it , how you try to make it more attractive to users .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I think all three groups will need to interact quite a bit . Um , and then I guess build the plan based on all of that , because I think you need to take all the factors into account .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep . But what I request , okay , {gap} keep Ed in the loop , okay , in between your uh meeting and Christine meeting , because uh he should know what's happening .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course {vocalsound} . Yeah , we can C_C_ him on any discussions or documents that are passed around .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Okay and please please copy all the mails , okay , all the discussions to me , okay , so I need to submit to the management .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure . No problem .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So any questions for uh time being ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , the immediate next step is to start determining the functional design , or",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . To come up with the functional design and uh to discuss with Ed , okay , and how it's going to be work , and uh first of all with your user acceptance , okay , how it looks like and how it's going to be work in the market , okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so then we can discuss about uh further things . So , we'll meet when the {disfmarker} we'll discuss on the further meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's okay ? Thanks for coming .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Would you mind um at the conclusion of our meeting could could you send us a copy of your slides ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , I will . Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm , yeah , that would be useful .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'll copy , uh le let us keep all the emails and all the copies , okay , share each other , okay , so you know everybody what's happening , okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And if anything you need anytime so please either you can call me , or just send me email , or uh just come and uh knock my door , okay , so I'm available here . It's good ? Okay , thanks for coming and uh I wish you a nice time then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thanks .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , see you later . Bye .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
IS1008b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"13"
]
],
"topic": "Opening remarks"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"14",
"61"
],
[
"172",
"203"
]
],
"topic": "Functional design of the new remote control product"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"62",
"98"
]
],
"topic": "Financial targets and marketing plan of the remote control project"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"99",
"171"
]
],
"topic": "Conception of remote control features and speech recognition function"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"207",
"241"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about prioritizing the selection of features"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This is the second meet-up for the new product of television remote control, with a particular focus on its functional design. Industrial Designer, Marketing and User Interface were each invited to give a presentation on the subject that they are in charge of. On the basis of conducted user requirement survey, Industrial Designer and User Interface put forward their ideas on remote control features which are new to the existing market, along with the functionality and outlook of the product. Among all the features, speech recognition command takes up the majority of discussed subjects. The group also discussed the material appropriate to use in the construction. After the group determined the financial target of this project, as well as the production price and reasonable selling price, Marketing suggested taking a risk in price rise.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The group decided that the feature of speech recognition should be included to the remote control, even though it would exceed the cost constraint set by the management. Marketing believed that it is worth taking a risk because speech recognition is new to the market and customers would be willing to pay extra for this trendy function. What's more, Project Manager agreed to coordinate with some technical companies if Industrial Designer ever needed any technological backup.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about speech recognition command?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"109",
"171"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing believed this feature would improve the market competitiveness of this product based on a conducted survey on user requirement. One the one hand, 80% of the 15-35 year-old group are willing to spend more money for trendy new products. 75% - 90% of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on a remote even though it is of higher price. On the other hand, half of the users said the remote control got lost easily and most of the time were hard to find. With speech recognition, however, this problem could be solved.",
"query": "Why did Marketing think highly of speech recognition command?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"93",
"110"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface found this feature great, but he noticed that the ambient sound coming from television would confuse the speech recognition and might accidentally trigger the remote control. User Interface pointed out that Industrial Designer had to make sure the speech recognizer would be good enough to filter out the television speech and recognize only the user's voice. He believed that this feature, once successfully achieved, would make the product popular on the market.",
"query": "What did User Interface think about the speech recognition command?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"119",
"132"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer suggested that the remote control needed to be able to turn the television on and off, control the volume and the menu, change channels, both by directly going to a specific channel or by channel surfing. As for the material used for the construction of the outer case, it needed to be not only flexible and inflatable, but also waterproof. The product itself would be better if it could change in size depending on user preference. In addition, the remote control should be able to respond to the user by sending out an oral cue in order to show that it understood your message correctly.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about functional design of the product features.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"14",
"32"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Based on user perspective feedback, User Interface pointed out that the buttons on remote controls are generally too many and too small. Even though they were sometimes labeled, it was still not clear for the users to tell what each button was supposed to do. Given this, User Interface preferred to keep the number of buttons to a minimum and make frequently used buttons bigger and more strategically placed. He believed a simpler design would make the product less imposing.",
"query": "What features did User Interface think the remote control should have for its buttons?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"185",
"203"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Given the fact that for families with children, remote controls were always played or even thrown by kids, Project Manager would prefer the material used in the construction of the product, especially on the outside, to be unbreakable. Project Manager also suggested that the product should be slim and simple. On top of that, it would be better if the remote control could be universal to use for any kind of television.",
"query": "What features did Project Manager recommend to be incorporated in the new remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"33",
"40"
],
[
"73",
"84"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay uh Agnes , you can help me for the slide when {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay . Okay , welcome back . I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time . How t now the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting . Okay , and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you . And it's in the , I think uh , in the sharing folder . And uh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects . So can you go to the next slide ? Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening . Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the project management , what I'm going to do , and uh , of course , I'm doing the project management and secretary both , okay , to take the minutes of the meeting . And there are three presentations . One is uh new project requirements . And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions . And uh finally we are closing . Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes , so you have to be very quick . And I have come up with the {disfmarker} management come with the new proposal , okay , and I have to discuss a few points on this . Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project . Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded , okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology . So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design . And the second one is about uh the remote control . Should be used only for the T_V_ . That's what our uh management says . And the third point , it's very very important to establish our uh marketing or uh corporate image , okay , with this new project or new product . Okay . {vocalsound} So I will invite uh {disfmarker} Agnes , can you go to the third slide ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , this is the third slide .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , {gap} . So , I'll invite uh Christine to discuss about uh the functional design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , do you wanna open the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sure . Um . You're participant s",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm number two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Two ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do you want the mouse , or do you want me to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'll do the notes . Yeah , thanks .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um well I I figured uh we should um identify some user requirements , and from my experience , I wanna uh , and from {vocalsound} research I did , uh the the device has to turn the television on and off the first time you press on the big button , you can't uh can't have like uh waffling on this point , you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Really have {disfmarker} It needs to be able y y have to be able to find it . Because one of the biggest problems with remote controls is finding them . So uh , I also , since we have to establish our corporate image on the basis of this new product , thought we better look at things that are popular and um ex go beyond those , and , as I said in the first meeting , um {vocalsound} and then uh we might wanna talk eventually about the materials that are appropriate to use in uh in the construction , especially in the the uh the outside of the product",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so that it gives the appearance , and it is reliable , and so forth . {vocalsound} I did a little history on uh the the uh remote controls and when they were invented and so forth , so , I guess this guy Zenith uh created the Flashmatic , which I kinda like the idea , 'cause it made me think of um um maybe the remote control made a big flash when uh you turn the T_V_ on and off , that might be interesting . And um {vocalsound} so it was highly directional flash light that uh you could turn the picture on and off , and the sound on and off , and change channels c so I think um those are still requirements we have today , uh fifty years later .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh it was really a pioneering innovation , but it was uh sensitive to the sun , so that uh it would get {disfmarker} would start off by the {disfmarker} you'd get {disfmarker} it would easily cause um problems . So , uh I {disfmarker} in addition to uh looking at the um {vocalsound} uh the functional requir so all these devices are examples of where uh mm {disfmarker} they {vocalsound} represent examples that are available today {vocalsound} {vocalsound} which I think the one in the middle is r um really uh something to keep in mind .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Fantastic . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It'd be easy to find . And um it would uh y you'd {vocalsound} {disfmarker} you could throw it at things if if the T_V_ didn't turn on and off , you could use it for something else . And since I'm not really um {vocalsound} Industrial Designer , I didn't really know what to do with this slide . But um {vocalsound} I just {vocalsound} took some {vocalsound} different uh schematics and I put them into this , and I guess this is what a slide might look like if you were drawing a circuit board . {gap} I don't know why um we were asked to do this . So , uh {vocalsound} personal preferences , {vocalsound} um",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we could uh I I'm really thinking outside the box here , and I think that we should consider perhaps having an an an a a size uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} a remote control that changes in size depending on the user preference .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So something that's very very flexible and inflatable and then you could shrink it . I think um it could either be {disfmarker} you could go either one extreme , be very colourful , or you could make it clear , and um kind of blend in with things , so you didn't have to um {vocalsound} uh have a problem with the th the decoration of the {disfmarker} of the user's home . Um I think uh it needs to be waterproof , because uh sometimes they fall into cups",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and , you know , it might be out by the swimming pool or something like that . Um {vocalsound} if you uh mi one of {disfmarker} one of my requirements was about needs t to tell you when it's done its job or not , because half the time , I keep pushing on the remote control , and I don't know if it's actually understood my message , so I think it should give you some sort of an oral cue . And uh , course I never wanna replace the battery . {vocalsound} So ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's {disfmarker} those are my f preferences , and that's my presentation .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , let me uh interrupt you uh if you can add other facility , other feature , like uh unbreakable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , because uh especially today , you know , you have the family and the kids ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay , and the kids throw it and they they play with their remotes and {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Run over it with a car .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Okay , so if you can add the feature , okay , for your uh fabric whatever in your outline design okay , with unbreakable , okay , I think that will give a lot of advantage for our product , if I'm not wrong . Maybe you can uh add it in that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Good idea . Good idea , I'll I'll uh um {disfmarker} Yes , very good .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , uh thank you Christine , and uh uh any questions or uh clarifications , or any discussion on the functional design ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do you have any preconceived ideas in terms of materials ? 'Cause , for example , in the unbreakable thing , doing something plastic would be harder ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "whereas having something like , I dunno , steel or titanium isn't really economically viable . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Titanium . Titanium would be {vocalsound} be heavy , too ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Titanium . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "wouldn't it ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , I haven't really um {disfmarker} I wanted feedback , I think we need to rate {disfmarker} rank these , but we'll see what your uh personal preferences are and your thoughts .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Sure , yeah . No , I just wondering whether {disfmarker} that you had any sort of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I like titanium . It's light .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {vocalsound} yeah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Expensive .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The marketing comes out . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but uh who who said {disfmarker} who said we were ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you know , nobody told me how mu what our financial objective is , so um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It'd be hard to inflate something ou made out of titanium though {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the the {disfmarker} I'm sorry because uh the last meeting we supposed to discuss about the financial thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh let me go quickly , maybe if I can go back {vocalsound} . I know the project plan and the budget . So I can close this , {gap} not sure . Was in uh {disfmarker} S This . So let me see where is this file .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's Christine's .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This is Christine . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And that's mine , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's yours , okay . Saving .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "In modified .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think verbally we can {disfmarker} we can pretty much sell .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I will {disfmarker} I will send you a mail , okay ? The project may be the the project aim , okay . At the end of the day , the company uh wants to make at least uh the fifty million Euro . Okay , and uh of course the price will be very reasonable on the the sales side . Okay , that maybe Eddie will talk to you about uh how much uh the price and uh what's uh {disfmarker} how much its cost for the manufacturing and how much it's going to be {disfmarker} we sell in the market . Okay . Then uh you can come back with your feedback . And I I have one {disfmarker} maybe the suggestion or opinion . This remote control , okay , it can be for like universal , to use for any T_V_ . Okay , and it will be slim , okay , and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Not fat ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Not fat .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not fat , huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Might be hard to find , though .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep . But let's try it , okay , with the different uh {disfmarker} the designs , okay , the functional designs .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay ? So any other questions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh from her side , I don't think uh there's too many more questions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Thank you Christine for uh time being ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you can come to the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so then uh Ed , so can you tell about {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , from the marketing {disfmarker} yeah , from the marketing side , just to to give an idea what the management is looking for , I was looking for a a remote control to have a s",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S 'scuse me for one sec .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I have a sales price of twenty-five Euro , with a production price of uh twelve and a half Euro . For what uh I think from what we're trying to find , we're tr we're looking for , I don't think that price is exactly in the market . Okay ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'll explain myself here now in the sense that uh in a {disfmarker} in the recent surveys , uh from the ages {disfmarker} fr from fifteen to thirty-five , eighty percent are willing to spend more money for something as fancy as trendy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Twenty-five Euros , uh that's that's a preson reasonable price . That's a market price right now . Now if we're gonna take a risk , and push this up a bit , make it more expensive ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but give them added things that they don't have now ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "then it w it could possibly sell . Obviously the risk is there . Too expensive , they're not gonna buy . But , I think uh there's one other thing interesting {disfmarker} two things that are interesting {gap} is that uh from the fifteen to thirty-five year-old group , which always spends more money on trendy new things , speech recognition is requested .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Speech recognition? .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And we're talking between seventy-five to ninety percent of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on a remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Obviously , we can't make a remote into a computer , but maybe simple commands . I dunno , louder , softer , on , off . That might be a possibility , even though it costs more , to be the first on the market to produce this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thirty-five percent say they're too difficult to use . So we have to figure out a way of making it um more user friendly . {vocalsound} Uh fifty percent say they can't find the remote half the time . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So maybe one word speech recognition commands , say remote , and there's a beep beep beep , and they can find it through , you know , ten tons of newspapers , magazines , whatever you have at home .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But , in the cost that uh the management is looking for , that's not gonna be possible . But if it's trendy , if it's fancy , it's got some colour to it , if it's very easy {disfmarker} easy to use , if it's got simple remote {disfmarker} speech remote uh control , like I said , louder , softer , change channel , on , off , remote , it goes beep beep , I can find my my remote without spending half a day looking for it and getting all upset 'cause I can't turn the T_V_ on . So we're gonna have to look at it in a {vocalsound} in this global idea , with the ideas of the industrial uh design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But , price obviously we have to talk about .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep . So what do you think about uh the design {gap} ? Do you think you can make it or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "D uh I'm sorry ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What do you think about uh the design , uh what he was talking about {disfmarker} of the speech recognition ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , uh training is always an issue with uh commands .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um {disfmarker} might uh {disfmarker} we can perhaps um {vocalsound} do it if the user is willing to spend some time in the training process , uh it could reduce th th uh the overall um cost . Not sure how . {vocalsound} But um anyway , um {vocalsound} I I think also that uh this might impact the battery life . And um so , maybe what we'll have to do is um add something where you can um recharge it wirelessly so that uh {vocalsound} y you know sen send power to it . So uh or maybe uh set it out in the sun and it uh , you know , gets uh , from the light , um a a solar cell inside there",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so that uh you have enough uh juice to do all these fancy things .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It seems also like with the speech recognition , yeah , it's a great feature , but if you're watching T_V_ , there's a lot of ambient sound , and it's words . It's not just , you know , noises like something hitting . It's actual speech , so then you have to make sure that the speech recognizer is good enough to filter out the T_V_ speech , and the the user's speech . Otherwise , you can say remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Off . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But if someone on the screen is saying the same thing , all of a sudden , you have someone in a movie saying off and your screen dies , because they've triggered the remote control and it's turned off your T_V_ . {vocalsound} So , I think if we can find a speech recognizer that can handle those types of problems , then yeah , it'd be a really good marketing gimmick .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , I think we seriously need to consider how that would impact the situation .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Very good point .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because tha w {vocalsound} with speech recognition uh th I'm not that good at that idea",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but th {vocalsound} if it's a one-word recognition , 'cause I know with telephones and cars and things I've seen in the States ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} a friend of mine says call Mom , and it calls up Mom .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay the radio can be on and everything .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because I think s with speech recognition , if uh the the remote or like the telephone {vocalsound} {disfmarker} it has a exact word that it has to hear .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it would come through a sentence in a television . If somebody's speaking on the se the television , they're not gonna stop and say remote ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay . So I think that uh something could be designed to recognise single word {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . Yeah . No , I think it's a great idea if we can design it to to suit those requirements .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like the t like the telephone . No because I {gap} this is this is years ago in the United States where we're driving down and he said call home , and the telephone called immediately {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so well , that's kinda cute . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , what I can uh suggest to you , Christine , okay , uh if you need some uh {disfmarker} the technical feedback , or some training , okay , about uh this facility , especially for the speech recognition , I can recommend you some companies like uh Intel or I_B_M_ , okay , because they're already in this uh speech recognition part , okay . And uh you can maybe have some uh technical backup from them , some kind of a technical tie-up . Okay , and uh if you want , I can coordinate , okay , to get some information , okay , and uh you can uh let me know , okay , so what kind of uh the details you require okay , to add this feature in this project . I don't think it's uh the difficult . And uh we need to know how much is the timeframe you need to develop , apart from uh what {gap} today .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , we'll find that out .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "From from your side uh , you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What do they want ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {vocalsound} , a risk , take a risk on the market ? Something that's gonna cost more , but could very easily s make a boom in the market ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because it has to be something totally different , has to be total totally new . Something that nobody has right now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it's gonna cost .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but end of the day , you're the sales guy , so I will come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay . It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell the management how much it's cost us",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and how much you are going to benefit ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure . Sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay . And uh , so I don't mind to convince , okay , the management to spend some more money on the project , okay , if you can make out of",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Obviously .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "the money from this project .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If the bottom line is positive . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , okay I don't mind to convince the the management ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The management says , okay , so they they don't want certain facilities , which it's already worked , okay , they want something uh new , okay . I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree , I don't think they'll say no for that , okay . And uh I hope I can convince the management on that , okay . So if you have any uh new ideas , okay , for uh your {disfmarker} you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special , okay , coordination , okay , between any uh technical companies , which you can uh hide their technology backup , okay , for your uh functional design or technical design , okay , then I am ready to do that . And uh what's your comments about uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um well , I mean , maybe if I go through my presentation , you can sort of see what the user perspective is , and how it ties into the other two comments .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so you are finish , Ed , uh so I can uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I'll uh hand over to Agnes . Just gonna close this . T Uh where are you , here ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm participant three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Participant three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nope , here {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so I'll {disfmarker} yep . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Good .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is it okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thanks .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alri",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and that's fine . Okay . So , basically , the method that we usually use in the user interface design is that we need to look at what people like and what people don't like about existing products . So , in our case , existing remote controls . And then , what the good ideas are , and what the bad ideas are , and why they're bad and good , which isn't always as obvious . We seem to have intuitions about why things are good or things are bad , but when you look , technically , at how it works , sometimes that's not the case . Then we need to decide what functionalities we really want to keep , 'cause that'll feed into both Ed's work and Christine's work . Um and then what the remote control should look like , obviously , once we've got a good idea of what the functionalities are . So , in terms of the functionalities that we need , you obviously need to be able to turn the T_V_ on and off . You need to change channels , both by directly going to a specific channel or by channel surfing . You need to be able to control the volume and then control any menus on the T_V_ to regulate contrast or whatever . So , the problems that people have expressed is that there's too many buttons on remote controls , in general . The buttons {disfmarker} it's not clear what they're supposed to do . Um often , you need to know specific button sequences {vocalsound} to get certain functionalities done , um which you don't necessarily always remember , especially if it's a functionality that you don't use very often . And that the buttons are too small . So , here we've got two examples where here on the left-hand side , you can see a remote control that has lots and lots of buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The buttons , in a lot of cases , are tiny . Um they're hard to see , and okay , they're labelled , but the labels don't necessarily tell you too much . Whereas , on the other side , you have a much simpler remote control that I think basically has the minimum functionalities {vocalsound} that are needed . And it sort of looks simpler and just less imposing when you first look at it . So , I would be inclined to go sort of towards this , in terms of design , rather than this . And if there's specific functionalities that require more buttons , then we can figure out how to do it with existing um buttons . So my personal preferences are to keep the number of buttons to a limit , or to a minimum , sorry , make frequently used buttons bigger and more strategically placed , so like the on button being really obvious one , the channel changing and the volume , and to keep the design basically sleek and simple .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Click mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which , I think ties into what Christine and Ed have both said fairly reasonably . Um so , that's pretty much it , an I don't know if you guys have any questions or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , it's um , seems {vocalsound} very understandable . Clearly your research and uh {disfmarker} and ours uh heading in the same direction ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and um uh the only thing that I saw missing from uh your your research that we found was this uh ability to find the doggone thing when you need it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , that's true . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So uh , you know , but that's okay . That's why we're all here at the table , so that if we think of it and our research indicates certain things and um w we it's complementary .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I also think that um uh th f the the feel of it is uh , when you hold it , is something that um uh was expressed more in in in in my uh design",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and that's logical and normal 'cause those are the parameters that an Industrial Designer's more thinking about , th th the look and the feel ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh , you're {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , that's definitely a very important factor , especially to users who are gonna be buying the thing and then using it almost on an {disfmarker} daily basis in a lot of cases , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "First . Yep . Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Okay , so I don't have any questions . Sounds good .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {vocalsound} for anybody need uh any help , for time being , on this uh subjects , okay , so please come back to me ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh Christine , maybe I can uh try to help you to get some uh the technical uh the companies to help you for uh make a design uh slim , okay , and to add some features , like we are talking about , the speech recognition and all .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Should we maybe make a decision about what features we actually want to include ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause we've thrown a lot of features onto the table , but do we actually want to incorporate all of them , or have we missed anything ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do you wanna go back and look at the closing slide , maybe that would provide some guidance ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Doesn't really tell us .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So not really this one we are talk ab",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Individual actions . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well it says individual actions ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it says user interf so I'm supposed to do the components concept , supposed to work on the user interface concept ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and you're supposed to keep watching the trends . Um and specific instructions will be sent by our our coach . I think we should {vocalsound} do as many features as uh {disfmarker} start with all of them right now",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I thought {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and eliminate them later in the process , that's my suggestion .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , that will be great . {vocalsound} And uh I'll send you the the minutes of meet",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You can object if you want to {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , I I'm just thinking in terms of time ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} She's objecting . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "like if {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes , now I'm objecting . No , I mean , I was just thinking is it really practical to start designing something with features that we're just gonna end up throwing away ? I mean , it takes a lot of time and effort for everyone to consider different features , um and s if we spend that time and effort on features that we're not gonna use , maybe it's better to spend it on the f thinking more about features that we actually do want , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we should take that as an action item for after the meeting ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh th {vocalsound} we s we still have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "guess {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'cause w our meeting time has run out .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Somebody else has go to use this room ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and , you know , we can't hang out here",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and talk about this , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , what we'll do is now we'll take for lunch break , okay , then uh we can discuss furthermore , okay , with our areas , and uh then we will come back again in the {disfmarker} in the next meeting . So thanks for coming and uh I'll send you minutes of meeting , and uh please put your all information in the sharing folder so everybody can share the information . Okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So let's go for lunch then . Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Agreed . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
IS1008c | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"140"
],
[
"286",
"321"
]
],
"topic": "Components design of the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"150",
"192"
]
],
"topic": "Layout of the general functionality of the new product"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"193",
"262"
]
],
"topic": "Market trend reflecting user requirement"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"263",
"286"
]
],
"topic": "Labour force in terms of manufacture"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"322",
"357"
]
],
"topic": "Wrap-up of the meeting"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This meeting focused on the conception of the functional design of the new remote control. Industrial Designer evaluated several components in the technical design of the product and gave his personal preferences, especially on the chip and the material to use in the construction. Then User Interface presented a general layout of the functionality, the design of which should follow two principles: simpleness and customizability. Marketing, in his turn, explained the current market trend based on the results of his questionnaires on user requirements. The group also discussed where the remote control would be manufactured by taking into account the price of the local labour force.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The group came to an agreement regarding a wooden case with rubber buttons and also determined on using the advanced chip on print which could integrate a sensor and a speaker. They also decided to install a microphone in the device so that the remote control could make sounds when it got lost. The group discussed over cost-efficiency of a display, whose adoption still remained to be decided.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about the component design of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"140"
],
[
"286",
"321"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The group showed approval regarding the concept of a wooden case, because Industrial Designer, during his presentation, evaluated different materials on the basis of manufacturing input as well as the conceptual features of the product. After eliminating rubber, plastic and titanium, the only option left was wood. Not only is it environmental-friendly, but the users could also have their customized curving on the case. But Industrial Designer suggested that the buttons should be made out of rubber.",
"query": "What did the group think of using wood as manufacture material in the components design of the product?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"23",
"139"
],
[
"311",
"321"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface proposed to reconsider the necessity of adopting a display in consideration of two factors. One was that the television screen already made a big display, the other was that the cost-efficiency of a display was doubtful. In view of the cost constraint, sacrificing the display feature could be a reasonable option. Project Manager then asked Marketing to conduct research on this subject before making the final decision about the adoption of the display.",
"query": "What did the group decide to do about the display when discussing components design of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"286",
"308"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface presented a general layout of remote control functionalities. The ergonomic shape of the remote control could raise product customizability. User Interface proposed to incorporate a flip screen and to add a LCD light to show battery life. User Interface also gave suggestions on possible positioning of the key pad. To summarize, User Interface preferred the design to be simple and clear.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the general functionalities of the new product.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"150",
"171"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface proposed that buttons, when pressed, gave audio or tactile feedback so that users were aware that the device understood his message. For instance, speech recognition could be an option. Besides, voice control should be able to be turned off so that the remote control wouldn't accidentally send instructions to televisions.",
"query": "What did User Interface suggest about invisible features when discussing general functionalities of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"160",
"172"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface suggested adding a flip screen on the remote control in order to prevent users from accidentally pressing buttons and bring unwilling results, especially for families with children. Given that the products were to be made out of wood, Industrial Designer proposed to use a copper hinge. But User Interface disagreed by pointing out that this might increase the weight of the product.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about flip screens in terms of general functionalities of the new product?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"154",
"157"
],
[
"171",
"179"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh welcome back after lunch , I hope uh you had a good lunch together . For uh this meeting the main agenda okay uh to discuss about the conceptual design meeting . Okay and the agenda will be the opening and uh {disfmarker} that's uh {disfmarker} the product manager or secretary that's me and uh the presentations from the Christine and uh Agnes and from Mister Ed . And finally in this meeting we have to decide",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and we are to take a decision on the remote control concept and uh the functional design So we have forty minutes , I think it's uh little bit uh low , but I I hope we can finish it up {vocalsound} so I'll handle to the the functional team , to the Christine , okay , to discuss about uh the components concept .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So uh , if you could open the PowerPoint presentation .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm number two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You're number two . 'Kay",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Components design , there we go .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So uh can we put it in slide show mode ? Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The next one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right here , is that little {disfmarker} that one , yes please .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'll take the mouse . {vocalsound} So uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we were looking he specifically at the components uh {disfmarker} the following components , uh the case , the power supply , uh the means of communications with the television set . In instance we had talked about using some sort of speech recognition ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you have to have microphone {disfmarker} well no you don't actually I haven't {disfmarker} have to have microphone in the device , but um maybe you do have it a a way {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it has to it has to hear the speaker",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and um , so it could be in the television set , could be in the device , but somewhere you have to put the microphone , um and a w a way of making beeps or sounds so you can find it when it's gets lost . Um so the other w thing that we {disfmarker} So . Our method for going about this is we've looked at uh the histo hi historical record , what's worked , what hasn't and then we also um {disfmarker} we wanted to evaluate some new materials",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and we contacted manufacturing for their input because , course , we m might {vocalsound} come up and choose the material that then manufacturing didn't have the technologies or capabilities to offer us , so uh this is the approach that we took during our um {disfmarker} our research .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So um for the case , um we told we were making a specifica specific assumption that it would be curved in design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Course , you know , I wanted it to be expandable and shrinkable , but um that uh doesn't seem to b be one of the choic non-option we can uh {disfmarker} we can really seriously explore ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} so then we were thinking about um rubber , but um unfortunately that's been eliminated because of the heat uh factor",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and th um there might be some {vocalsound} problems with the m uh how it's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh goes with the board . {vocalsound} Uh and uh then th plastic also has this problem of melting and it's brittle {disfmarker} it gets brittle after a while ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so um we still had titanium and and wood available , but um unfortunately uh uh titanium's also been eliminated uh ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the m people in manufacturing said that you couldn't make d curved cases out of titanium , although how {vocalsound} Apple did it with th PowerBook I'm not su quite sure but uh nevertheless um they've eliminated all of our options except wood .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} At least it's environmentally friendly . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So , {vocalsound} this is our finding .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And a as she said , it's an environmentally friendly uh material , so we're {disfmarker} we're {vocalsound} currently uh proposing ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh we'll get to all my personal preferences in just a second .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So then there's this other matter of the chips and um well we could use a simple design on the board ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} uh these simple chips , but that's only works for the bu you don't get very much um intelligence with this simple one . And um then there was the regular which {vocalsound} I regret that I've forgotten exactly why I'm eliminating that one . Uh the other option was this advanced chip on print , {vocalsound} and uh we liked th we we found that it it includes this infrared sender ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "which w 'member the beam was {disfmarker} that was an important component of finding the right chip .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh manufacturing has told us that they've um uh recently developed a uh a sensor and a speaker that would uh be integrated into this advanced chip on print , so uh we we uh now jumping right to our personal preferences um I I'd really think we should , you know , use some of uh some really exotic woods , like um ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you know uh , well you guys come from tropical countries so you can kinda think of some trees and some nice woods . I think that people will might really want to design their own cases , you see , they could do sort of a {disfmarker} this um three-dimensional design on the internet , and then they could submit their orders , kinda like you submit a custom car order , you know , and you can choose the colour and the size of the wheels and the colours of the leather and things like that , and then I uh think we should go with the solar cells as well as the um microphone and speaker on the advanced chip . So this is the findings of our research",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and my recommendations um for the new remote control w um would be to have um have it be made out of wood . Do you have any problems with that ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Can you go back uh one slide ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure , how do I {disfmarker} Oh , I know , let's see .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Let's go back up here .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , uh {gap} question , uh , what's mean exactly , advanced chip on print ? What's the meaning of that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think it's um um a multiple uh chip design um {vocalsound} and it's uh maybe printed on to the circuit board .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I could find out more about that uh before the next fi next meeting .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , is it means it's on the {disfmarker} yeah is it on a micro-proc micro-processor based or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I don't know , but I'll find out more at our next meeting .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , tha that would be great , so if you find out from the technology background , okay , so that would be good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sounds good .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Why was the plastic eliminated as a possible material ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because um it gets brittle , cracks {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um We want {disfmarker} we expect these um {vocalsound} uh these remote controls to be around for several hundred years . So . {vocalsound} Good ex {vocalsound} {gap} Good expression . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Whic",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Wow ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Which {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} good expression . Well after us . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know , speak for yourself , I'm planning to be around for a while . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Although I think {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think with wood though you'd run into the same types of problems , wouldn't you , I mean it chips , it if you drop it ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh it's {disfmarker} I'm not su {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {gap} so you're not convinced about the the wood , yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} you're what ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Actually , I'm ready to sell it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think {vocalsound} if you re if you use really good quality wood , then it might work ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm ready to sell it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You think ? {vocalsound} And you could {disfmarker} you could sell oils with it , to take care of it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but you can't just use {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No y {vocalsound} no no no , the o the only w the only wood you can use are the ones that are hard , extremely hard wood ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , exactly , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but there are some very pretty woods out there {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well I'm glad you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's actually very innovative idea .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , good .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sorr having a hard time keeping wi control over my face . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , it's actually a very innovative n different idea that uh you know you can choose your colour of wood , your type of wood .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The stain .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I mean it's {disfmarker} each person is gonna have their own personalised , individualised speech recognition remote control in wood , that's not on the market .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so it it's looks good the the design the functional design uh , what about yo you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um , in terms of comments on this or in terms of my own {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , in t yes , in term in terms of comments first {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} In turns of wow . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "She works in the cubicle next to me so she's uh she was already a little bit prepared for this {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Y yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Luckily Ed was not . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Wood ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think we can get the quality materials then {vocalsound} it shouldn't influence the design principles too much , which you'll see with my presentation .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "One thing we'd have to check though is what the users {disfmarker} whether {disfmarker} how quickly the novelty wears off of having uh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm-hmm . Yeah , you wouldn't wanna have to have splinters in your hand while you're using your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} Yeah , for example . {vocalsound} So , have to see how kid-friendly it is and and all that ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's really good if your dog gets ahold of it , they can use it {vocalsound} {gap} for teething .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They do that anyway with the rubber and plastic ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they do it with other materials as well , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so {vocalsound} , and chew 'em up . And chew 'em up .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay then , uh , let's move to Agnes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , I'm sorry .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "S you're {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You are in participant three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One point three , yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think so , yeah . Yeah , that's the one . So , it's a very short presentation , 'cause I'm actually gonna draw you the layout on the board so if you want to just go straight to the second slide , um , which basically shows , sort of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I took the ideas that we were talking about last time um and tried to put that into the remote control so the things that y you can actually see on it are the on off switch , volume and channel control , the menu access button , ergonomic shape , which I completely agree with Christine's idea to have it sort of molded , so it's slightly more ergonomic and comfortable to hold than the r standard very straight remote controls . And actually the other thing with the wood if we take your customising idea , is that people can actually do sort of quasi-measurements on their hand size , so if someone has larger hands , you have a wider remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Right , my hand is uh different size than yours for example .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So , that's actually a really good idea for customi customisability . Um , one thing I thought might be kind of interesting is to put a flip screen on it , just like you have on flip phones ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so that you don't have this case where someone sits on the remote control or accidentally puts their hand on it , especially if you have little kids around , they're not pressing the buttons while you're trying to watch a T_V_ show and accidentally change the channel or turn it off .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And also {vocalsound} um you had issues with the batteries running out ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so I thought maybe we could put a little battery life-light on it that kind of goes dimmer and dimmer and dimmer as your battery is {disfmarker} starts to die . And in terms of invisible features , audio and um tactile feedback on button presses and , like you said , speech recognition .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , in terms of what this thing would actually look like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Despite working in interface design , I'm not the greatest artist in the world , so you'll have to forgive me . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} You'd have something like this with an on-off switch fairly big , sort of in the corner and by itself , so you don't accidentally turn your T_V_ off while you're trying to manoeuvre other buttons . And then you have sort of one of those toggle displays for , oops , channels and volume , sort of for surfing channels and then volume , so the volume would be the up and down , 'cause volume goes up and down and then channels left to right . And then here you'd have your sort of standard , telephonish number pad . {vocalsound} And then on one side you would have an access to the menu on your T_V_",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and on the other side a way to turn off the voice control . So that if the user doesn't want to use their voice , they can just turn it off and you don't have the remote control accidentally changing things on you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um , so again you can have a little L_C_D_ light somewhere , the flip {vocalsound} thing and {disfmarker} Have I forgotten anything ? I don't think so . So , as you can see , it's a very very simple design ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "which is one of the things I really wanted to keep , is keep it simple , not have too many buttons , not have too many functionalities thrown into it . Think the design can pretty much carry over to everything , although with the wood the flip screen might have to do something slightly different .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A hinge . Be like a copper hinge or you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But you also have to d start watching out for the weight , 'cause depending on how much the the flip screen will add to the weight of the remote control , you don't want it to start getting too heavy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But that's the general layout with the general functionalities , if we come up with something else . As you can see , there's still lots of space on the actual remote control and if you do it customisably , {vocalsound} you can make this thing fairly small or fairly o large , depending on personal preferences .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm , mm-hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , that's pretty much {vocalsound} all I had to say , I mean , everything else in terms of design issues . Um the centering of the key pad and {vocalsound} the channel is just depending on where your thumb is and you tend to use the the volume control and uh the browsing more than the actual number pad , so that would be sort of in direct line of where your thumb goes when you are holding the remote control ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the number pad a little bit lower 'cause it's used less frequently .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So once we decide exactly what we want , then we can figure out the exact positioning , but more or less I think it should go along those lines .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So what's your , uh , the comments or uh s",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Simple design . It's what consumers want .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's almost like , Houston , we have a product here . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Problem is obviously gonna be cost .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I also have a f {vocalsound} very simple presentation ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because for the marketing point you have to see what the consumers want .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I also have uh copied a different type of remote . If you can find me , where I'm at . {vocalsound} There should only be one in here . {gap} trend watch .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's being modified .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} They're stealing our product . {vocalsound} We've been giving simple {vocalsound} questionnaires in different areas because th {gap} obviously we have to see what the com consumers are looking for today , 'cause uh trends change very very quickly . In six months maybe this idea is already gone out the window , so it's gonna be a question how fast we can act . Uh they already erased the rest of mine , huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "f go to findings .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No no , no no . {vocalsound} 'Cause I had another comment there . Uh the market trend . This is what we know from the last uh {disfmarker} from the {vocalsound} questionnaires from the the {disfmarker} all the p surveys we've done , fancy and feel-good , that's what we've been looking for , something that feels good in the hand , that's easy to use . Looking for next generation of innovation , because all the remotes out there now , they're all very similar , they all do the same thing ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we have to have something completely different . Okay ? Easy to use , has always has become {disfmarker} has become another major interest that uh , with the whiteboard we can see that it's a remote that's easy to use . And I think this is another thing that's interesting is the consumers actually willing to pay the price for exciting tel technology . So even if we have a product that may be more expensive , if it comes out right , if they {gap} look {disfmarker} it looks and feels good and has technology . The second two , you can see the last one is a very easy simple design . {vocalsound} The second one , there is about uh forty-five thousand different buttons on it , which makes it fairly hard to read , uh very hard to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The first one , I see {vocalsound} that they put in a display . Now there's something else uh with the little flip-up , now we're adding all kinds of things in ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but with the little flip-up , if you have a little display on the flip-up that when you close it everything is locked .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe the display also makes it easier to use , because sometimes when you're looking for buttons , maybe if you see a display {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Context-sensitive instructions , depending on what the tel what mode the T_V_ or the D_V_D_ or something else is in .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay Because I've seen {disfmarker} mostly the standard ones ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Especially you might need something like that for training the speech recognition and",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah . Now you have it {disfmarker} now you have one with the very simple also . The idea is simple , but with a display , so you can see what you're doing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So maybe if we can incorporate the easiness of use , trendy , fancy , feels good , {vocalsound} uh with a display , wood , designer wood , designer colours",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You know , maybe what you could do is when somebody orders the device id you could send them like um {vocalsound} a uh {vocalsound} uh b some sort of a foam rubber um ball ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": ", we might've {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then they would squeeze it , and it would take the shape of their hand .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so it's really molded to to your specific {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} To t {vocalsound} an and then you would know like {vocalsound} um what the geometry of their hands would be and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How hard they squeeze ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes {vocalsound} you'd know what kind of wood to get .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Resistance resistance , right . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But th for that you'd also have to do sort of an average across families and things like that if {disfmarker} unless everyone has their own personal remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's right , that's right , you wouldn't wanna go too far down that . Oh that {disfmarker} that actually would uh increase the um {disfmarker} the revenues we could expect , yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The sales , yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} Yeah . I hope so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , but incorporating the three uh obviously it'd be something totally new on the market , totally different",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and from {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , already the customisability is a really good sort of new gimmick .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Although , what it {disfmarker} was it uh {disfmarker} it was uh Nokia that came out with this changeable colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right , you take it apart , and put on another face , take it off and put on another face",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Right , mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And that took off , yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then they sold millions , millions . So . So say with the f with the findings , with the research , easy to use something totally new .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We have to come up with something totally new that is not on the market .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We'd also have to wor um consider that uh who we were gonna get to make these custom cases in terms of manufacturing processes , we might wanna um learn about um {vocalsound} labour laws .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You know in different countries and stuff wher so we can do it cheap , but you don't wanna exploit uh labour in um third world countries .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So actually you could turn it y turn around and say that you're uh par the reason the cost is high for the device is because um you're paying a a working wage to the person who made the device .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we can get a production in , uh {vocalsound} , countries like , uh , India",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Cost of living is low .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} yes , yes , countries like India or China or Malaysia , so you can go a better features and better price and you can sell more . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Good , well th that'd be something that manufacturing would have to um explore more",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {vocalsound} yeah , so Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and to where {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Where w Where it would be manufactured is is another step .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} Yeah , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We're here to design , come up with a nice product . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes uh , but uh that that we can that we can talk about the production later , okay , depends on the the quantity , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we don't need to have our own uh fabric factory or something ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so we can have a tie-up with who the do the fabric , okay , for the different uh electronics items , then we can have a business tie-up and to get {disfmarker} to cut the cost , okay , to sell more . So , but uh le let's decide first about the components concept and uh interface concept , okay , if is acceptable for both of you , what uh Ed was talking . And your design {vocalsound} whether you want with the display or without display or just a simple , so",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} I think it depends , I mean I think it's a good idea , but we need to really think about how useful it's gonna be because theoretically with the T_V_ you already have a big display {vocalsound} right in front of you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , if we're trying to keep costs down , then maybe sacrificing the display is a way to go .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean it depends on how much putting a display costs and what it would be used for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "very specifically what it would be used for ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'cause if it's only used for one little thing , then putting in a big display case or a big display that's probably expensive just to do the training on the chip for the speech recognition or whatever , may not be the most cost-efficient way to go ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but that's just sort of speculation , I mean .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} What do you think Ed ? Do you {disfmarker} he liked the display in one of the concepts that you showed , um , do you know how much it costs , um , to to add a little display like this uh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No . No",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Do you wanna take an action item to go find out ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} no p spec {vocalsound} It's 'cause we have to find out cost on it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} Sorry about that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um , no that's no problem . I'm here for the {vocalsound} pushing it after it's made . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I will market it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Once we get a price on it then we can market it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} So the {vocalsound} the advanced chip on print is what um what we've {vocalsound} we've deci we've determined",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and the uh engineering industrial design is the recommendation , and um I think we've kinda come to some agreement regarding um this concept of a wooden case .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A customisable and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Nice beautiful mahogany red wooden case . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What about the buttons , would {disfmarker} Would the buttons be wood too , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh I don't think so , no ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think they could be rubber like they are now ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so you have that tactile experience of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Don't looks nice uh . Yeah , so uh what we'll do is , uh , we will stick with the the simple design for time being until uh th Ed find outs about the how much it's cost to the extra , in case we go for the display . Okay . So",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "maybe what you can do is uh , both of you , you can come up with the the prototype , okay , the model .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So um are we done with this meeting ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , I hope , if {disfmarker} is it okay if uh they will come up with the prototype design , okay . Then they can show you how it looks like , and then we can uh submit to the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I will submit to the management . Okay ? Then meantime you can come up with the price , how much it's cost as extra for uh the display .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "An and the marketing strategy , that's very important , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And a marketing strategy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And marketing strategy , thank you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . How much you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Fired . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "how mu how much how much you can sell extra .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Of course you'll make money too ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so it it's not only pay-out , you make money too , your commission .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so , any questions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , by next meeting , so , please come up with the the prototype , okay , then uh , then we can proceed from there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So thanks for all your uh efforts and coming for the meeting again , and see you soon then . Okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
}
] |
IS1008d | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"89"
]
],
"topic": "Detailed design of remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"90",
"233"
]
],
"topic": "Finance and marketing strategy"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"234",
"331"
]
],
"topic": "Product evaluation"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"361",
"380"
]
],
"topic": "Closing of the meeting"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager initiated the final meeting on the topic of detailed design. Industrial Designer and User Interface each gave a presentation on the prototype and discussed the evaluation criteria, especially that of microphone and buttons. Next, the group did calculations on the budget as well as the profit goal before Marketing showed the challenges of this project in terms of budget control and reaching the profit target. The group then discussed using the internet for promotion and ordering and drop-shipping the product to the customer's residence. Finally, the subject moved to product evaluation by putting the prototype on the market and analyzing the feedback. The group discussed whether they should spare time for the redesign process before releasing the product to the market. Then Industrial Designer put up a strategy to do effective user research by choosing sports seasons.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "User Interface presented the function, customizability and appearance (colour, material and shape) of the remote control. Then the group discussed the location of the microphone as well as the weight and shape of the buttons. Project Manager suggested that the microphone should be under the flip while User Interface argued that it should be on the side. User Interface also proposed that the buttons should be made in egg shape and of plasticine.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about the detailed design of the product?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"89"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface suggested that the prototype of the remote control would have an ergonomic shape, be made out of wood and the colour would be customisable. User Interface also introduced the general layout of the white board under the flip: the big yellow button would be charged for turning the TV on and off, the red triangle one would be used to change the volume, while the green one controlled the channel changing. There would be a dark blue numeric pad at the bottom and an LCD screen on the flip panel. The prototype would have a customised backing and front.",
"query": "What did User Interface introduce about the detailed design of the prototype?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"36"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer proposed to specify the location of the microphone. Project Manager and User Interface disagreed with each other. Project Manager thought the microphone should be under the flip so that users could easily turn off the voice recognition, whereas User Interface insisted that microphone should be on the side so that the remote control could be activated by voice even when out of reach.",
"query": "What did the group determine on the evaluation criteria of the detailed design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"37",
"89"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer proposed to conduct a product evaluation by putting the prototype on the market to get feedback from the users. User Interface pointed out that there should be time for redesign while Project Manager insisted that no more change would be made on the original design and improvements made according to evaluation results would be on the second generation. What's more, Industrial Designer came up with a strategy to do additional user research by choosing the sports season and working with motion pictures.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about product evaluation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"234",
"331"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Because User Interface thought there should be a turnaround time between product evaluation and its formal release. User Interface believed that many products had been released to the market without being properly user-tested and didn't receive positive results, so the remote control should be minimally tested before redesigned and fine-tuned to suit a general range of requirements according to the feedback from product evaluation.",
"query": "Why did User Interface disagree when talking about the redesign after product evaluation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"266",
"293"
],
[
"334",
"360"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer proposed to choose a special time of year which is most important for the TV remote control sales to launch the product for user testing. Project Manager suggested the sports season which was right before the World Cup football and to work with motion pictures coming out on DVD that the users needed to have a special remote control to work with. The group intended to set up a campaign with picture companies.",
"query": "What strategy did the group come up with for product evaluation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"294",
"331"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Welcome back .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry to be late .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Welcome back everybody .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Thanks .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So this meeting agenda will be the detailed design meeting . And uh opening and uh P_M_s {gap} of the meet minutes , uh prototype presentation from uh Christine and uh Agnes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Agnes , yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes and uh evaluation criteria . The finance , it's uh from my side , from the management , and uh production evaluation . Then uh closing . So we have forty minutes to discuss and uh finalise and close the product and project and to move further , okay , so {disfmarker} Okay , let's talk about uh maybe first uh for the prototype .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I handle to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I've done a presentation , but it pretty much covers work that we've both done , so if I'm missing anything , Christine can just correct me .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So shall I go to {disfmarker} sorry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh thank you , so you did a PowerPoint presentation , good for you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep . S Okay , let's go to A_M_I_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's not the biggest PowerPoint presentation in the world , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So in two or three or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Three . Um . {vocalsound} No it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Probably . Technical pa I would think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "think it's the last one . No , then this is {vocalsound} the la yeah , that one , final design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ha .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It is named appropriately , you just couldn't see the name .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um okay , can I have the mouse ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thanks . Alright , so from {disfmarker} when we were discussing specifying the case in the last meeting , we decided that we wanted an ergonomic shape , the material that we chose was wood , and uh the colour would be customisable , 'cause you can stain the wood whatever colour . Um , so in terms of function , you have to be able to turn the T_V_ on and off , volume and channel control , menu control , voice recognition control , and we've incorporated the L_C_D_ screen on the flip panel as part of the design , if we figure out it's too expensive , well then you just take it off . {vocalsound} Um , so {vocalsound} to unveil our lovely product . This is our remote control , with the flip panel as you can see .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So if you lift up the panel , you can see the lovely yellow L_C_D_ display . {vocalsound} Um , this is actually hard to do . The yellow button you have is the on off button , so it's really big , hard to miss . You have the the red um triangles are the toggles for changing the volume . So up {disfmarker} volume up , down {disfmarker} volume down . The green are the channel changing . {vocalsound} S And it's one of those very light , very touchable displays . And then you have the numeric pad in the dark blue at the bottom , and on the right-hand side you have the access to the menu on the T_V_ , and on the left-hand side you have the the the ability to turn off the voice recognition . So this is pretty much what we had on the white board the last time .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um and uh I could {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the d",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Additional feature on the back is that you can have your own customised backing and I suppose you could do the same thing on the flip case on the front . So that you can really make this a highly highly customisable remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We haven't um uh specified where the speaker or the microphone will be placed . That depends on the uh s design of the circuit board inside and uh what room is left um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think the microphone is on on the top , uh on the middle , the {disfmarker} under the flip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , okay . Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that will be the safe , so p any {disfmarker} the chip {disfmarker} it's not on the chip because you need to have microphone {gap} to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I mean it depends on the design of the circuit board .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But it shouldn't be under the flip either , because you can have the remote control closed , but you still might want to activate it by voice .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh it's it's {disfmarker} Yeah , but uh uh my opinion I think it's better under the flip because whenever you want to uh the talk , okay , so then you can speak then you can close it . But if you put it on the on the flip , okay , then uh technical I don't think it's uh feasible , 'cause most of the time you speak then it will be recognised .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But if you've already got the remote control in your hand you need to open the flip to use the voice , why use the voice , why not just use your hand ? I mean the whole point of the voice is that if the remote control is sitting there and I'm too lazy to reach over and pick it up , I can just use my voice .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe I've got my hand in the popcorn bowl and I'm holding my cup of Coca-Cola in the other hand .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And you don't wanna let go of either one . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't wanna say . Louder . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I mean it doesn't have to be on the flip , it can be on the side somewhere .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Can also be on the side .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the sides maybe is good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , I mean I can pass this around if anyone wants to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . So it's maybe good idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , y better you pass it around with a napkin . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No , because y you can easily put a microphone on the side that would have no problem would haven't been {disfmarker} not be damaged or anything , and it'd be accessible all the time to voice .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yeah {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , exactly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it's maybe good idea . S s",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's um {disfmarker} It's um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Compliments to the artist .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You need to work on the weight a little bit . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . S {vocalsound} I'm fine , I'm satisfi",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And maybe the shape of the buttons ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm satisfied .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the little egg shapes aren't the most economical , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We're glad you're satisfied .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Of course it's it's it's looks more heo heavy , but I think when it's completely {gap} maybe it's a less weight .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I mean this is plasticene .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There's only so much you can do . We could have possibly made it a lot thinner as well . {vocalsound} But {disfmarker} And part of the thing is m a lot of people say that they don't like something that's too light , because they don't feel like they have enough control over it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I mean maybe this is excessively heavy , but I think it needs to have some weight ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it needs to feel like you're still holding something . {vocalsound} So that's pretty much it for our presentation actually .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's your uh prototype model ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , that's good , thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So any comments or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , the prototype is is very well within the design and ideas that we've we've talked about on the previous meetings .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Now it goes into this next phase as the financial uh marketing uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes , that uh {disfmarker} So I'll come back to the {disfmarker} {gap} So evaluation criteria , I think uh that will be good , so then let's come to the finance uh , I have some uh calculations which I made uh as for uh the budget . So here you can uh look like uh the energy {gap} and uh {gap} dynamo and uh kinetic and solar cells . Uh it's optional , somewhat optional and Ed wants the chip on print , that's what uh we were talking about that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So then we have sample sensor and sample speaker , then uh we have the wood material , then special colour and push button . So it's uh {disfmarker} actually , our budget was uh twelve point five Euro , but uh it's coming to nine point nine five Euro , so we are under uh {disfmarker} below the budget , okay , so still we are saving some money . I think it's a good figure . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , great I {disfmarker} I'm surprised .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Congratulations . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Than thank you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well we haven't come to mine yet , so {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": ". It's gonna cost a long way to c you know , cost a lot of money to market it , is it ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we're gonna have a bit of difference of opinion , yes . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So maybe it's {disfmarker} for some money we can utilise for our uh marketing , for the sales , okay , and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , it just depends on if we're gonna add a {vocalsound} o on this pr provisionary cost analysis , we do not have a L_C_ display . L_C_ display is gonna be very expensive ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No we do , but it's not filled in .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's gonna be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's not .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thirty .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's not {disfmarker} it doesn't say .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's number thirty .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We don't have the price up there ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , yeah , yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you're right , sorry , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "okay , so if we add approximately two to three Euro per remote , now we're up around about twelve , twelve and a half as to what uh the company had initially uh requested . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that means we can put the uh {disfmarker} the L_C_D_ in , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Display in . But as far as production um I'm putting up a question because we're talking about profit also , and in mine you'll see uh {vocalsound} the problem with uh our survey , the p the possibility that how many units can be sold , what percentage of the market , etcetera etcetera because that {gap} has to be taken in into consideration .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh this is just production cost , it is not uh advertising cost , it's not transportation cost uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , so still uh we have twelve point five Euro .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And that will inflate quite a bit the cost of the uh {disfmarker} the cost of the unit for the company .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {gap} Yeah , but {disfmarker} Yes . Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So to come up with what the company wants is a fifty million Pound profit , we're gonna have to go a long ways .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . This we are talking about one unit , okay , so when it go into the quantity , okay , and the cost will come down .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Although customisation , because this is being done , you know , the on {disfmarker} on-order basis , it might be uh the the quantity won't m won't uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Slightly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's gonna be very hard to reduce .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the circuit board will b you're right , would be in producing quantity , but the cost of the case would uh {vocalsound} be fixed at the {disfmarker} Uh you got some pretty cheap labour that can do this case for one Euro .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's not bad . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's really {disfmarker} that's the cost of the material and lab wow , that's really outstanding .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} But anyhow , still we are under control , okay , so what uh I will do is I will try to negotiate with the vendors , okay , to get uh the production cost less , okay , so then we can save some money , okay , to put into th our marketing or uh you know the promotions , whatever , okay , so that uh I will look after . I will speak to the management and how to get uh you know some more uh cost down .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If we can go to to my display . And we'll come back to yours",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "just to give everybody an idea of the market . So now I'm gonna scare everybody out of this project . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If I'm still here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You're in four ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Yep The four gives me {disfmarker} it's gotta be uh TrendWatch .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "TrendWatch .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is this the same one you did before ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It shouldn't be",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker} no , I think it's the same one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "if it's not {disfmarker} it's not the right one . No , no we g no , that's the same one . You have to go back and find another one . Whatever name it popped up under .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Functional .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh functional , try functional , it might not be it either , but we'll see .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It looks like it , there's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} S Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep , that's it . So we'll go screen by screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Although {vocalsound} since uh we need to have some type of idea on a market uh we had independent study that says it {disfmarker} this this market has an availability to absorb eight mi eight million units per year . Okay ? Our internal company evaluation puts it between eight to nine million which is approximately the same as the independent study .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So if we continue , we'll look at the findings . Next screen . {vocalsound} Which means that uh if we have a target of two million would the company has to take twenty five percent of the market in the first year ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "which is actually a tremendous amount .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , no kidding . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No kidding , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mayb maybe they already expected something .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , if we put an inflated price of fifty Euro at a production cost that cannot exceed twenty-five Euro , okay , we're already in that that price , okay ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "with transport , promotion , labour , because we hav {gap} gi included the promotion in the cost , transport for the material to the stores or whatever how however we're gonna break this down between our our retailers .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Twenty-five percent of the market to get to two million units . At two million units , we have to have a profit of twenty-five Euro per unit to get to the fifty million unit Eu Euro profit .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay ? So , obviously we w w I just did a run down the evaluation of the form , the fan uh the fancy stylishness of the {disfmarker} of the unit , the ease of use , speech recognition , cost , we've gone through these . Now , the company must evaluate the feasibility of being able to take enough of the market to justify in production . Or we project this over two years , but being that the market changes very very quickly , maybe there's no more interest in buying this thing in eighteen months from now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yep . Of course .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , now we have to come up with a decision .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Can the company sell two million units ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can it sell it for fifty Euros ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Could could I go to findings ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh uh um I would uh like to explore the possibility of using um alternative um delivery and sales channel which would be um to use the internet for promotion and ordering",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I was thinking the same thing , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then to drop-ship the p product to the customer's residence .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Directly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That way you have no storage , you have no um {disfmarker} you do have transportation , still have the labour cost ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but you don't have the transport to the uh point of sale .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The point of sale is online .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "To the agents .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You can do a shipping centre somewhere , or strategically place shipping centres to minimise distance costs .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right , like Amazon . In fact , we should sell through Amazon ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Or eBay , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "don't you think ? Or eBay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "There's an idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's a good idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Going with um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "To impro more profit and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "S Upscale technology .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah , we we're do you know , selling a unique product uh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That actually makes more sense if we're gonna make it so highly customisable , 'cause on the web people can look at the different options they have , see maybe what other people have done , what the range of possibility as ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There are several companies that have gone that way .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "whereas if you're in a store , you can't {disfmarker} unless you're a highly imaginative person , you may not really know what it is you want ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "whereas on the web , if you have a bunch of pictures , it can sort of trigger ideas and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . And you can even have an {disfmarker} a movie that you can rotate the object and look at the di the only thing that you're missing really is the weight .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . The weight and feel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Weight , the feel of the product , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We're getting used to that . It's not quite like trying on a shoe , but people are getting used to buying things online that they can't touch before buying .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "There are several that have gone through with the watches , too . You can customise a watch , you can see how it is at the f at the end of the production ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you can change it uh {disfmarker} There's a lot of online that's {disfmarker} that is doing this now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And when you're rotating , you'll look behind and look this way uh {disfmarker} it's possible to do with this , maybe there's a possibility of selling more than two million units in one year , which could {vocalsound} you know , feasibili feasibility uh lower the price of the unit .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We can .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Great .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think that's uh not possible , it's uh {disfmarker} okay then , l uh let's wait for the production , okay , then uh you can evaluate the product , so how it looks like technically and uh how it look like uh the real .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What turnaround time do we have ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "T",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Cause I mean production evaluation can be very very quick or very very long .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh but {disfmarker} Yes it's it's very quick , of course . It will uh come back in two weeks , okay , it will be ready in two weeks .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Works for me .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For evaluation , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Prototypes , you mean .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , the prototype uh {disfmarker} prototype product evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In um {disfmarker} We probably should do some market tests uh once we have the prototypes and do some orders and things like that and test-market it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yes . Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , obviously .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm that'd have to be thrown out on the market for people to get an idea ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you can take a minimum two weeks to a maximum four weeks .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "to see {disfmarker} get get their {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Think minimum two weeks if we're gonna develop prototypes and then try to take them to different places and see how people use {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's not a trivial task .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , because we we are not going to do it in uh our factory , okay , so we can give it a product evalua",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No no . We definitely shouldn't do it in our factory . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we'll do it in the other place , and I don't think it's take more than four weeks time . Or uh {disfmarker} Okay , so then the real production we will start once we product evaluation , okay , then uh it's approve from uh the technical team and uh your team , okay , uh from the management , then we can launch in the market . Hm ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Any outstanding {disfmarker} {vocalsound} ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "S Any any other uh questions or uh comments to be discuss ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I'm",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What ab",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} go ahead .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we pretty much covered everything .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so then uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Did you have something ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well I was just wondering about if we're gonna do a product evaluation then what about time for redesign if the users come back and tell us no this is bad , this is bad , we want this done differently .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay uh , let's take like this . Let's proceed with this model , okay , for the for the marketing direction , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So no more changes will be made , okay , in this {disfmarker} the basic design . Okay ? So we will introduce m this model and uh let's introduce in the market and let's take the feedback from the customers , then we can uh go for the",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Second generation .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "second generation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . There's no end , there's not limit .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The problem is there might not be a second generation if the first generation flops for some silly reason that we haven't thought of .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Every every custom",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , then it may not be .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well , every customer , okay , they have their own ideas , they have their own test , okay , so there's no end , there's no limit .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like people don't like wood . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , but there's a difference between releasing a product that has been minimally tested and fine-tuned to suit a general range of requirements versus releasing a product that we think will work but we don't really have anything to back it up .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} very specific .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so that's the reason you are here for uh the design , okay , I hope you made a good design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but I'm not everybody .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean the whole point of user evaluation is to see what real people need . We have our own motivations in mind , we have our own ideas in mind , but that doesn't mean that that's what's gonna sell .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but uh see , we ought to take a few considerations , okay , one is the price consideration , one is future consideration , okay , like uh you can eat uh {disfmarker} you can all eat more chi I can eat more chilli , okay , so i it's a depends on the individual taste , you know ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so we have we have to balance somewhere .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course . I'm just trying to point out that I think that your evaluation and redesign turnaround time is too short {disfmarker} well you have no redesign {disfmarker} not you personally , but in the project we have no redesign time and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Our project doesn't {disfmarker} um",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ed , d do you know what season of the year or time of the year is the most important for T_V_ remote control sales ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Would it be the Christmas season by any chance ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The sports time .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sports season . Which sport season ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right before the Eur {vocalsound} the World Cup . {vocalsound} World soccer . World Cup soccer ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Football .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} so",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "they need those things that they have their hands g occupied and they need to be able to talk to the con remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Football .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "maybe what {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I think what we need to do is perhaps to synchronise the final {disfmarker} the the launch of a user-tested device with some {gap} special event .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And and then um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's a good idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so that gives us a little more time perhaps then we anticipated , because I don't know when the World Cup is , but I'm sure there's gonna be one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Or any major sports .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or another {gap} m major sports event . Probably not the um the football games coming up the end of January . I think that might be a little too aggressive um ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but , so , I'm just ig uh pointing out a uh a strategy to uh do some additional user testing",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Research .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "pri and then to launch um at a a major sports event",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or uh perhaps to uh also {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's actually good place to advertise it too .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And to work with motion pictures .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} There might be some motion pictures that are coming out um {disfmarker} that are coming out on D_V_D_ that uh they need to have a m special remote control to work with it , so we could maybe work out a campaign with uh with Sony Pictures for example .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe some management has got uh relationships there we can leverage .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , the {disfmarker} that of course uh I will convince the management to do that , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's great . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's just something to to keep in mind , 'cause it's really really important .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sure , sure , yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A lot of products have gone out there without being properly user-tested and completely flopped , when in fact it gets re-released a few years down the line with proper testing and it takes off like crazy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Disposable diapers is an example of that in fact . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Really ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , it is one of the first consumer products that was launched about thirty years {disfmarker} that was a disposable consumer product ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That I didn't know . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh people {disfmarker} the market hadn't really {vocalsound} gotten on to the concept that you could use something and then throw it away , 'cause it wasn't uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but then when they re-launched them thirty years later , they were virtually the same design ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but people had gotten the throw-away , you know , paper cups and napki y all kinds of things that they hadn't um {disfmarker} so , you're right , timing is very important ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but I think we've got a good product .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's the reason Ed is here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think he can promote the the brand value and the product value .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's right . It's gonna be very important to the company . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . We are behind the scene and he is the front screen , so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "He's on the big screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I'm the one who takes the heat .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Exactly . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Good luck , Ed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} If it's a flop , it's the marketer . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You look very relaxed , considering h you know , the uh the weight on your shoulders , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes . Yes . Stress . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so then uh let's come to the closing and uh are the costs within the budget",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Celebration . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh is the product evaluated , okay , so that will uh come soon . Okay for uh {disfmarker} but our time being , so thanks for all your efforts and great work and uh great design and uh let's leave it to the Ed for later for once production is over and the meantime let's celebrate . So let's meet up uh this evening to hang up for some party .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sounds good .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'S good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Very good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nice working with you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . Thank you again for all .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thanks",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And see you in the evening for drinks .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Bye-bye . Yep , okay , see you later on . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bye .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
IS1009a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"88"
]
],
"topic": "Scope of the project and team building"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"89",
"137"
]
],
"topic": "Appearance of remote"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"138",
"193"
]
],
"topic": "Functions of remote"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"194",
"239"
]
],
"topic": "Wrap up of the meeting"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting kicked off with self-introductions, familiarizing team members and their responsibilities. After stating the scope of the project, which was to design a new remote control, the team tested out the functions of the white board. Then, the team brainstormed about what features they would add to the new remote control, such as being multi-functional and having a light sensor, with the selling price of twenty five euros and production cost of twelve fifty Euros.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The role of User Interface is to design a television remote control. Marketing is in charge of figuring out how to sell them. The responsibilities of Industrial Designer are dealing with technical and functional designs and specifications of User Interface.",
"query": "What were the participants of this meeting responsible for?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"18"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The project goal was to design an original, trendy and user-friendly remote control for the international market. The project will be divided into three parts - functional, conceptual and detailed design. The selling price and the production cost of the remote should be twenty five Euros and less than twelve fifty euros respectively. The profit aim for the company is fifty million Euros.",
"query": "What is the scope of the project?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"21",
"32"
],
[
"81",
"88"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface suggested that the remote should be compact and able to be used for other purposes such as controlling air-conditioners or heating systems. Industrial Designer agreed and added audio players should also be controlled as well.",
"query": "What did the team think of User Interface's idea regarding a compact and multi-purpose remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"99",
"119"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The remote should be compact with a friendly shape, like the kidney shape Project Manager proposed. It should also be made with different material and colour so as to be more trendy.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the appearance of the remote.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"94",
"103"
],
[
"121",
"137"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing suggested that the remote can beep or a light in the remote can blink when people clap. Project Manager added that it can also give off a signal, activated by light sensors, when it is in a dark spot. However, Project Manager later raised up the point that voice or clapping was not specific enough and other devices like lamps with the same function only worked to a certain degree.",
"query": "What solutions did the team come up with to help people better locate the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"138",
"194"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "It should be a multi-functional gadget that would control all household machines, such as air conditioners and audio players so that it would be different from other kinds of remotes. Also, the remote can either blink or beep as a response to a clap or when it is in a dark spot to help the user to locate it.",
"query": "What did the team discuss about the functions of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"99",
"122"
],
[
"138",
"194"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "In the next meeting, Industrial Manager will be responsible for the functional and working design of the remote. Marketing will be in charge of the user requirement specification such as friendliness and come up with features that justify the price of the remote.",
"query": "Summarize the wrap up of the meeting.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"194",
"216"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay . Everybody ready ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh I think the first thing we do is introduce ourselves",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and everybody's name and what your function is ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's a good plan .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So maybe we start with you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah , my name is Francina . And I'm uh an user interface {disfmarker} my role is uh {disfmarker} the main responsibility is user interface .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And my role is to design uh a television remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I'm a marketing person . I wanna figure out how to sell them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . And your name is ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "My name is Eileen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh I'm Jeanne-Oui . Um uh my role is industrial designer and my responsibilities are uh uh um deal with the {vocalsound} technical-functional designs and specifications of user interface and dealing with user interface design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Very good . And as you already know I am Betty . I am the project manager for today . So why don't we look at the presentation {vocalsound} to see what we really are supposed to do . {vocalsound} Um .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes y opening , acquaintance , tool training {disfmarker} well , the tools are , I think , we already {disfmarker} I guess the tool is really our {disfmarker} the computer , as far as I can see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh we get ins each of us will get instructions and we'll take it from there . Project plan , that falls under the same heading pretty much . Um , I don't think we have any great discussion at this point .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um . Here is what this thing should be . This thing we are gonna um uh design is a new remote control . Uh should be original {vocalsound} , trendy , and , of course , user friendly .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So maybe you wanna make some notes of that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "All right . {vocalsound} Here is what the functional design is supposed to achieve . Um . That is it's gonna be individual work and then at the meeting we'll discuss what uh we have come up with . The same goes for the conceptual design , there will be individual work whic and then discussion afterwards . Detailed design , same thing basically .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm 'kay so {disfmarker} Three different types of design that we're gonna be concerned with okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Functional , conception and detailed .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I can't write with this thing . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Maybe we should redesign it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "After we've finished the remote control we'll get to that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , okay . All right ? Then , tool training try out the white board , participant can draw their favourite animal . Does anybody want to go and see how the white board works ? So that in case we have to , in the next meeting , present something on the white board . You wanna go Eileen and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I'll see what I can do .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Whether you {disfmarker} without hanging yourself . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "See if I r See if I remember how to draw a kitty cat or a rabbit or something . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And remember you have to press so it works .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that it will record okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um uh um traditional kitty cat .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Fat , a fat cat . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I've a very fat cat .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And it likes to sit like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you're Francine , right ? Would you like s like just to see um how it feels , so that you have a little idea ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , I'm Francina . Yes , sure . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "In {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Am I supposed to wipe off that or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , no . No , that's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know , we'll get to that later .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What should I draw ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Snake .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm going to draw a snake . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How does it look like ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I hope the kitty cat is hungry 'cause I don't like snakes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Here's the project finance uh which , of course , we all have to think about when we design this thing . Um selling price is supposed to be twenty five Euro . Uh profit aim for the company is fifty million Euro ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "the market range unlimited meaning international",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and the production cost should not exceed {disfmarker} hopefully should be less than twelve fifty Euro .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm 'kay that should keep everybody on their toes and challenged .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Profit . Um is fifty mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So these are all things , of course , to remember with the budget and when you design {vocalsound} to materials , cost , etcetera . Now , uh the discussion I guess is um does anyone of you have experience with remote control ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oops .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I exp I s 'cause we we use 'em {disfmarker} we use 'em , right , everyday .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course , using remote control . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And um now having used a remote control for years does anybody already have like an idea like things you didn't like with it , things you would like to change , things you would like to improve with this thing ye any first ideas ? Would you like it to be smaller , bigger ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "have more have more buttons on it or maybe clearly {disfmarker} better marked buttons , you know , things like that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , I I feel that all the remote should be very compact .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Small , right . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , those which we get here nowadays it's very long .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And um and it should have multi-purpose . Like uh the remote control which we use for T_V_ , it shou uh it should be used f uh for some other purpose also , like controlling the uh temperature inside the house or for air-conditioners , or for heating system .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Audio player . Oh . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it should be a multi-functional uh gadget that would um control all your household uh uh machines basically .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , exactly Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Divides us {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Exactly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} At um twelve fifty Euros per {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well who knows if we get a really good designer maybe we can do that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We certainly can try to {disfmarker} I agree with her that to market something successfully it should do some more things .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It should be something new {disfmarker} it should be s it it should do something different than than just what we have .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now , of course , the other thing to think there is maybe the design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , design should be , yeah {disfmarker} it should be different . All the {disfmarker} almost all the remotes {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like trendy no like f for earlier we saw maybe it should be something trendy you know . Maybe it should {disfmarker} different colours or materials or you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , exactly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe ten {disfmarker} I do yeah , colours",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Are different shapes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and al shapes also . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um so yeah shapes right , you know , like kidney shape feels better in your hand or something , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah of course yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay , friendly shape , that would help .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think another thing that would help is um if it beeps when you clap ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because I think one of the big things that happens is people lose them . They can't find it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That is true ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because they put a newspaper or they put it behind a plant or , we you know , whatever .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And and they {disfmarker} suddenly the phone rings and they want to turn the T_V_ off and they say , where the hell is my {vocalsound} my remote control yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well or yeah or if it's really , if it's really in a dark spot that it gives out a a sound or a signal .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So some {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , some beep or something like that ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or a b",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh so , so it's really the beep or , or a light should blink .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so that we can go {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So if lost {disfmarker} If lost uh signal with b throw signal , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Should ha",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A fluorescent signal , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm 'kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe it should have a light so that we can , we can just recognise where it is .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Exactly , I mean just {vocalsound} that's what I'm saying .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . May not be beep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm just saying throw signal meaning just whether it's a beep or whether a light or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Beep or uh it's a light , maybe it's a light .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And do you think a good c c um clue for that is that it would respond to a clap or it would respond to your voice or it would respond {disfmarker} what what should you have to do to make it beep or blink ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , my {disfmarker} my idea is maybe that the minute it's really hidden , in in other words if it's like in a dark spot , uh meaning you know like a newspaper is on top , a sweater is on top or it it's behind a plant , at that moment it's it's like , it's like um , what you call it {disfmarker} a light s sensors , you know ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "In in that moment it has a sensor , i it it gets a certain darkness , it ge has a sensor and it gives out a signal whether that be a light signal or a beep ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I mean , that we can discuss that later , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , probably {disfmarker} yeah , probably it's a {disfmarker} yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So the light sensor would activate the signal .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's right . You know there would be {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "right you have to have some kind of sensor and I I think uh voice or clapping it's not specific enough . Uh I know there are the lamps and stuff , you know , you can clap on and off ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but I think they only work to certain degree and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But it could be someplace really obvious and you still wouldn't be able to find it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What with {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course , that didn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then , in that case {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , because you're s because you're silly . Because people are silly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I i we can't do it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah well , but then those people {disfmarker} we can't help everybody . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean it could be on {disfmarker} well , i if it were like on top of your bookcase and you usually kept it on the coffee table",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "um {vocalsound} ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay we have uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you know , well {disfmarker} maybe we have to move along , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , we have to move along , but I think we have some good good points to start with here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , good point .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , the next meeting will be in thirty minutes . I think you all {disfmarker} did you get uh notices on your computer for this ? Okay so well , you got the notice um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Me yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} uh . The working design , I guess that's the function I_D_ {disfmarker} uh who is this ? The industrial designer {disfmarker} That's you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , it's functional de yeah , exactly , technical .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So , we looking for a working design when we come back .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh working design , yeah , it's it's uh mainly technical-functional design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then {disfmarker} And then the technical funct you are the technical function ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , functional design ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so so you are the working design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So you have a working design and then a functional design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the marketing manager is coming up with some user requirement specification , like friendliness , and what we just discussed in general . That would be your idea . And , of course , price . That it , that it , that the price is a good price . I mean , the price is given , but , that was {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . We have to justify that price by having sufficient features to make it sell at that price .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's right . That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And , you know , specifi you you will get specific um instructions for that . I think that's the end of the show . Yeah . So um {vocalsound} we have {disfmarker} well , we have a twen two two two three minutes . Um any questions at this point ? Or uh suggestions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker} basically basically you will get instructions to work with and if you have any questions uh , uh I guess , you can uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I think I have enough to think about 'til our next meeting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , even I have .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How about you people ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , even I have , I think , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Really ? Okay . 'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so let's see .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright , well uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then uh we see you in about thirty minutes . And see what we can come up with .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , very good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
}
] |
IS1009b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"50",
"322"
]
],
"topic": "Functions of the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"32",
"81"
],
[
"325",
"472"
]
],
"topic": "Product positioning of the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"32",
"36"
],
[
"134",
"317"
],
[
"399",
"429"
]
],
"topic": "Appearance of the remote"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"85",
"260"
],
[
"369",
"472"
]
],
"topic": "Main components and working design of the remote control"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting started off with Marketing leading the discussion on product positioning of the remote, which was going to be an impulse purchase and certain requirements from management, such as the remote only controlling the television. Then, Industrial Designer shared the working design and main components of the remote. Also, they discussed functions that they would add to the remote such as a child lock and the appearance of the remote, such as having a comfortable shape and different colours. User Interface then raised some features that the remote ought to have such as having a timer. Finally, Project Manager stated their target group, which was people aged ten to forty, and they discussed how to cater to their needs, such as having large buttons for the elderly.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The main function is to only control the function of a television at a far off distance. The signal released from the remote through radio waves or infrared can change different functionalities in the television. There should be a timer to set for viewing a particular program or for switching on or off a particular program or lock the television to save electricity according to the user's choice. A child lock system should be added.",
"query": "What is the main function of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"286",
"298"
],
[
"319",
"322"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The buttons on the remote, installed with infrared bulbs, would be fluorescent whenever the TV is on, so users can find the remote even in the dark. Also, the buttons can glow differently according to different functions. The remote will beep if too many buttons are pressed at once. The team agreed to add a display clock, which can also be used as an alarm clock. The idea of having teletext and controlling electronic products of the whole house was rejected.",
"query": "What were the other features of the remote mentioned in the discussion of functions of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"18",
"50"
],
[
"124",
"134"
],
[
"215",
"231"
],
[
"308",
"317"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing said that there is a lot of argument to make one button for one feature because research results show that users complain about how hard it is to learn a new one. This idea might be suitable for people working with computers all the time but the elderly with an arthritic hand might find it difficult. User Interface suggested that it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities and be in the shape of the letter T for more compatibility.",
"query": "What did the team think about having buttons for multiple operations in the discussion of functions of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"177",
"197"
],
[
"302",
"303"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "It would be an attractive impulse purchase which would be out in the market by September as a Christmas present of twenty five Euros. It would be for everybody who has a TV, mainly aged ten to forty. In the subgroups of the target group, there are elderly people who have limited functions with their fingers and hands and nervous people who cannot press a little button unless it is very clear. To make the remote sellable, it should be intuitive and easy to use in order to shorten the learning curve. It could be sold with a slogan.",
"query": "What is the product positioning of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"32",
"36"
],
[
"79",
"81"
],
[
"325",
"472"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The corporate colour and design are recommended to be used on the product. The remote could be in different colours such as pink or banana yellow and shapes such as a fun shape like animal shapes or a comfortable shape that fits the hand but no sharp projections, lest a child plays with it. The idea of buttons with various shapes such as a triangle for volume and square for channels was considered. Everyone agreed that the text on the remote should be clear and the remote should be compact.",
"query": "What is the appearance of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"32",
"36"
],
[
"134",
"176"
],
[
"200",
"208"
],
[
"317",
"317"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager suggested that the remote could have removable plastic cases like phones so users can change to the colour they like, for example, striped or fluorescent blue. Two cases can be provided in the package and users can buy new cases in stores for a few Francs or Euros. The team immediately jumped on board with the idea.",
"query": "What did the team think of Project Manager's idea of removable plastic cases when discussing the appearance of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"399",
"429"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The remote control would have a chip in the integrated circuit, taking power from the battery and transforming input from buttons through wires into infrared signals to electronic devices. There will be buttons and underneath them are switches and bulbs. To hold everything in, there should be a case and a remote holder. The material used for the remote should be human friendly so that it will not cause any skin disease or allergy to either children or adults. The frequency of each electronic device is different so it would be very difficult to design a control for multiple devices.",
"query": "What are the main components and working design of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"85",
"123"
],
[
"234",
"260"
],
[
"304",
"304"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface suggested adding specific functional buttons for children or the elderly or people with nervous problems. Industrial Designer replied that it wouldn't cost much. Project Manager suggested that they can make forty percent of the remotes with large buttons and regular buttons for the rest. To sum it up, if the budget permits, they can address some features for certain subgroups.",
"query": "What did the team think of designing different remotes for different categories of people when discussing the working design of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"369",
"405"
],
[
"430",
"462"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay , is everybody ready ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I'd to just put on my microphone here and I'll be right with you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {vocalsound} I take it you all have received instructions as to what you were supposed to do",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and um I think the Marketing Manager probably should go first , addressing the needs and desires .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay you want me to start right now ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , could you um put my slides up 'cause I think it might be helpful if uh we looked at the slides at the same time .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . You're participant four .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm participant four I believe . Yes uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , and now I can uh full screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Open .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , okay , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There we go . Okay well I think we have introduced ourselves ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then full screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so the functional requirements are {disfmarker} is {vocalsound} is part of my goal but why don't we pass right to the second slide . Cause that's where m my discussion starts . Right well um since I'm in charge of trying to figure out what we should put on this thing since I have to try to sell it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um {vocalsound} I thought that the method I should follow would be gather suggestions from everybody , and th the reason I just put that there like that is that uh in the init in the initial stage I think I should just be open to lots of suggestions . You know you can say anything you want no matter how silly it sounds you know it should run your car , it should heat up your motor if should um turn on your C_D_ {vocalsound} whatever you want it to do {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "um and then as we go on what we'll have to do is accept and eliminate these suggestions according to um design and budget feasibility . So I'll be coming to you um frequently as the Industrial Expert to tell me how hard it's gonna be to add a feature or how expensive it's gonna be or if your time , if it takes five years to develop this it's just something we can't do .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . Hmm hmm . Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So in the beginning just have a big puddle of things that we {disfmarker} anybody can th throw anything in",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then just weed things out that can't be done for one reason or another , and then the things that seem the most attractive that to uh to a customer we'll try to then prioritise those .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that was um what I meant there , and as I said on the slide there consulting the Industrial Engineer about that and the other thing is timing is really gonna be as important as money , because if we're gonna sell this thing , I think the best time to sell it is as a Christmas present . Twenty five Euros makes a nice little present , and we want it to be an impulse purchase ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we want somebody to see it and think it's , gee I just gotta have that . And take out their wallet and buy it . So it's gotta be really attractive and it {disfmarker} but it's gotta go to market by September , 'cause anything that you don't already have out there in September showing it around , isn't gonna sell for Christmas .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um {vocalsound} and then I'll be coming to you as the User Interface person to try to tell me from your point of view what are the most friendly features that we could put on it and try to prior help me with that prioritising of uh of the features and of the the look and the colour",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and I'll be coming back to you to help weed out those suggestions from that point of view .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I'll be coming to you for how much is it gonna cost us and how long is it gonna take you ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and I'll be coming to you to tell me what's gonna make somebody take out their wallet you know ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What features .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "what what's what's gonna really be what they call a sizzle ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S sellable . Yes {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'cause we gotta sell this sizzle {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A lot of times the thing that works the best from an engineering point of view isn't the thing that somebody's really just gonna take out their wallet and buy for Christmas for for their child or for their husband or whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay can we go to the next slide please ? Alright I I already did a little bit of research after our first meeting where we threw out some ideas and it looks to me that within the budget that we're looking at the uh the whole house idea really isn't gonna be possible . So I'd like your suggestions to come back to the other slide where I was saying we we could suggest anything .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'd like the suggestions to be really specific , so that we'll have a list of things we can cross off , not something like you know whole house control what'll be {vocalsound} {disfmarker} And then I found on the internet from from my research that some extended electronic entertainment control should be possible . At the budget that we're looking at and at the price point we're looking at , we should be able to make it work the T_V_ , the V_C_R_ , the stereo set um maybe something else cute like a coffee pot or one other appliance or maybe a lamp .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh okay , can can I at this point interject um something ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I have to wind up ? Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um we have received instruction from higher up that certain things should not be uh considered . Um the one thing for example {disfmarker} something to eliminate maybe that's the teletext ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because that's sort of outdated with the internet ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and according to to higher management the {disfmarker} it should only control the T_V_ ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "mostly because they feel that it's too comp complex a task to um to to include other things ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Complicated , yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and they are concerned with the time to market .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Of course , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um and the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so that's something {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and the third thing that they wanna make sure um that their {disfmarker} that the corporate image is being maintained , and that the corporate colour and design are being used on the product , so that it's easy that that that they can be easily identified as a product of of of the company , and that there's no mistake that it could be somebody else who is bringing this out .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I just wanted to interject this here so we're not getting too much off track here with uh with the things we wanna look at . These were instructions from higher up so we have to eliminate uh these things , so it's only gonna be T_V_ ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm 'kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright , thanks for that . Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now . 'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use , and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room . Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address , uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible , we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use , and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep , and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate . 'Kay can we go to the next slide please ? Okay , so , my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle . That is the selling point , the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase . Uh because once there's no be-back , well in sales they always say you know , be-backs don't come back .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If somebody says , oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead . They're never gonna come back and buy it . You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing . And , in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve , make sure it's really intuitive and easy to use . We have to have as few buttons as possible , because more buttons is more confusion , so that's why I'm saying , simplicity is good . Finding it's important , obviously you can't use it if you can't find it . So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it , and I've already said this several times but I put it down in writing here , it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros . So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say , uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that . Has to be so great that they're gonna say , uh twenty five Euros isn't much . Um and then maybe a motto , like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay that's uh about it for me right now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . And uh who would be next , uh , I guess that would be you . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah 'kay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You want me to get your slide show up ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And you are number three ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Number two ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Number two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah . Yeah exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh can you make it uh full screen please ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it's like a well you you have to press here . The cup cup shape here ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The thir third .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah exactly . Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller . Um can you go to the next sli slide please ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the remote controller . It takes the power from a battery say a battery it it can be a elec an electric supply like you have to uh like uh switch connec connect connect your remote controller to uh power supply from the you know electricity or something like that . It should be a battery because uh uh remote controller should be like you you you should take it t to wherever you want and then um uh th",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "this integrated circuitry takes energy from the power source and whatever like if you press a button it's like a input for the remote controller and it takes the input and it it transforms into a infro infrared bits and it sends it into the device , like a T_V_ or a air conditioner , something like that so . Uh a remote controller is specifically designed to a single device . If you want to design it for multiple devices then you should make all the devices compatible with the frequency like uh th the remote controller it sends some bits some uh waves like with a particular frequency the device should know what the frequency is . It should re re recognise the uh waves which are coming from the remote controller and it should take the action like if you press a button channel or something like that then uh the remote uh remote controller will send a send a se {vocalsound} send a signal ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Signal .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and the T_V_ it should translate that into like change the channel or something like that , change the volume control",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Receive .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and uh so uh I think it's hard to design a remote controller for multiple uh devices .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Multi-purpose .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yo and it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well that's already been eliminated by management , so we're off the hook {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um . So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there . So uh you can control whatever you want , you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So can you go to the next slide please ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you know a a action , there can be no action taking to that so . And there should be a child lock , like uh uh you should be able to lock your remote controller so that uh um whatever buttons are pressed by a child they can't be like y you i you if you have ki kids and all then they'll be pl playing with the remote controllers so can lock the remote controller . If make it useable for more than one device it's a it's hard but I think it's possible",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well {disfmarker} yeah well that has been e that has been eliminated , so that's that's unfortunately a moot point now . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but it uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well we already eliminated that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah yeah yeah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Eliminated .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so it's it's okay , yeah , yeah . And uh different shapes that we can do like uh we can have you know a all animals shapes or you know comfortable uh whi which can fit into your hands",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and um so that uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Now that's good from a marketing point of view , the fun {disfmarker} the fun shape .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , yeah and colours also , different colours , and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm colours .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And that {disfmarker} you you say that won't add too much to the budget ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no no , it won't uh I don't think it will be like ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "To d the shape is uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you can have you know for uh if you want ther there to be more {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It just build a mould basically and uh you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes exactly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's it's just a s shape so it doesn't matter .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "As the budget we're looking at if you build one mould I don't think that's going to make a big difference whether it's gonna be square or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do you think there's any chance of um having ser in {disfmarker} having basically the same machine with the same buttons but maybe several different shapes ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that is also possible I uh yeah I I yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is that gonna be a possible ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Cause that might help with the marketing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we will have to look at the budget on that",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that will be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I think in principle that that would be {disfmarker} that would be kind of fun , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because we had something sort of sexy for adults and we could have something sort of",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Silly for children .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , for children , yeah exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "silly for children",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like an animal or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or a little animal shape or in a {disfmarker} or a little elephant so they can remember where it is . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like a doll , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's what , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , exactly . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And and the butto buttons also I think if you want to have more features in your remote controller then there should be more buttons . If there are more buttons then it will be more complicated . If you have less features then your remote controller won't be attractive , so I think uh we need to make some buttons which are {disfmarker} which are like um uh f in uh in intended for two or three operations , like if you press one button in one mode then it will change the channel , if you press the other button in another mode it will change the colour . So if you want to have less buttons we can have that option but I think it will complicate the matter more I think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Well , I think {disfmarker} I think that that's something that we'll have to discuss um with the User Interface person",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because I think there's a lot of argument to be made for one button for one feature . Because I think one of the things were complaining about in my {disfmarker} what I found out in my research is when they complained about how hard it is to learn a new one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The changing modes was something {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's like you know {vocalsound} yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean you and I , all f all four of us we work with computers all the time ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "changing modes is nothing for us , but people who {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , a little elderly , a little arthritic hand you know ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} N and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and and it's a small button and and it {disfmarker} they don't press it exactly",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you know something else happens n not their favourite channel comes up but something else",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and they're very frustrated you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Something else .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And that's {disfmarker} and that's the kind of thing people learn by feel , and um {vocalsound} you don't feel the mode change .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah you don't {vocalsound} us yeah yeah , usually . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So um maybe having buttons be various shapes might be a help too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah shapes also , different shapes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You know , like the {disfmarker} a triangle is for the volume and a square is for changing channels , so that people can uh develop a tactile sense of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that will {disfmarker} Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Channels .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But we'll get to that with you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah , and also text should be very clear so that there there won't be any ambiguities and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's right , yeah . Now that's a good point . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh display clock i if you want more features then we can display a clock it I I don't think it will take any money extra money because anyway we have an integrated circuit I think we can just definitely fit that feature into the circuit so it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's that's a good {disfmarker} that's a good one ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and we display a clock .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because the clock would be really friendly ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and and when is your favourite show coming on",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and then you can just see your remote controller yeah yeah yeah so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you're sitting there already or maybe you have no other uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} and {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Yeah , and a lot of time there's not a clock on the screen , and you have to go somewhere but you just wanna look at the news for a minute .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's that's good , the clock is good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh can you go to the next slide please ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh components uh the main components we need for uh it ha like buttons and uh underneath that there should be switch . And uh bulbs . Like uh we can have a bulb like whenever we are operating a remote controller or uh whenever the T_V_ is on suppose ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "then the remote controller should automatically have a b s light .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then it will be like if you switch on your T_V_ through anoth another source , not from {disfmarker} through a remote remote controller and you you lost your remote controller maybe you can find with the light .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we can have that . Whenever the T_V_ is on , remote controller will have a light .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then uh infrared bulbs . Um this is like uh when it is dark .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And battery , there should be a battery for power supply ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and a chip ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "chip which is like a brain to the remote controller which does all the operations ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and wires connecting all chips , which is uh lights , everything ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so there should be wires . And uh uh of course there should be a case where we can keep all the things and , you know different shapes or whatever it is there should be a case to put to give a shape .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "To keep the remote ? Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Case .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A case holder . A holder {disfmarker} remote holder .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , holder .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Holder , yeah , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um uh can you move onto the next slide . Um next sli slide please . Um I have referred the site uh the homepage of the um our website , uh from where I have uh uh I got s few points .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's it , that's it from me now .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it {disfmarker} um we should visit this site and have a look at uh what's up there ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , you don't have to .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's not like that , I have referred the page to get new ideas or like what can be the working design to how it works and all and so and so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay . So it might be helpful if we had a look at that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah if you want . Yeah , it's okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you . Could you go back to that slide where she had that uh s slide up Betsy ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it's actually there now , there on the screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , thank you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And Francine ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Participant two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You are number two ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . No no , I'm three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You're three . Would you want it full full screen ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I can make it full ? Yes yes yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm ? Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . As uh User Interface Designer I did a little research to find out what are the features which a user would like to have on their remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah can you please go onto the next slide ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I found out that uh but uh the main purpose of a remote is to uh f control the function of a television at a far off distance at remote distance . Now for that , uh a remote controller should have a switch on off button by which a user can sit anywhere in the room in front of the T_V_ and he can control the functionalities different functionalities of the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There should be a signal uh something like a radio wave or a infrared light or a LED which can be used to change the different functionalities in the television if the user wants to uh change the channels or increase the volume he can change it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now there should be some timer to set for viewing a particular a particular programme or switching on and off a uh a particular programme according to the user choice .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On the on on the remote . Yeah , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yes . So if if he want to view a particular programme at say nine o'clock he can set the time , and the T_V_ will automatically it will switch on at that particular time .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Right . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So he can use that kind of uh uh properties of features and then there should be a child lock system if a particular channel is not to be viewed by a particular uh for a certain age , then the parents can lock that particular channel so that the ch children cannot view that channel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . By your child , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh the uh the uh and the {disfmarker} one of the feature a user would like to have is the compactness of the co remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh t the remote should be compact and it should ha it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities of the T_V_ television . And um uh as uh uh this is my personal preference that it should be in the shape of a T_ in alphabet for more compactability .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh and uh and it is one more point which I noted it down , like uh the material which which which is used for remotes should be human friendly it should not cause any skin disease or something some al allergy to either children or to um ad adult person .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , 'kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it should have an uh it can have an alarm clock a a person if some if somebody wants to get up at around eight eight P_M_ then he can set the time and it can be used as an alarm clock ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and I don't think it will cost much to set an alarm clock inside a remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If there is a clock then there can be a alarm clock .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And an alarm clock , yeah that should {disfmarker} that should be okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and as John Reece said the buttons can be , uh can me we can use the fluorescence to light up the buttons so different uh buttons will glow differently . So in even in the dark the user can know what buttons to use to switch on a particular channel . And uh uh the design of the uh um remote should be in such a way that there should not be any sharp projections so that if a child plays with a remote , he uh he should not be harmed in any way .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And findings , uh I found out uh y um on different sites that uh there are different remotes which can be used , there are remotes which use the infrared for controlling the different functionalities , there are remotes which use the radio waves to control the functions and there are uh {disfmarker} So uh there you have different uh types of remotes for different light source which are used {disfmarker} which can be used for controlling the different functionalities of a television . Next slide . And these are my few personal preferences like it can be used for a multipurpose use . Not , uh no uh like it can {disfmarker} it can be used as a T_V_ control as plus an alarm clock to set an alarm a timing and it should have a child lock , and then to save electricity uh there should not be uh much s move uh lots of circuits and all that . And if a person if if if parents wants the television to be switched off by ten o'clock then it should be switched off ten o at ten o'clock automatically , so that nobody else comes later and use it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's like a t okay , it's like a timer {gap} it's like a lock to the television .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Timer , yeah , mm-hmm , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Timer . Yeah and then you can use a timer as well . Yes . Yeah that's it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay , now I have {disfmarker} On my slide show basically we already {disfmarker} we have already done the agenda , and uh on the closing uh basically there will be lunch break and all that . However uh the decision we have to take in this meeting is who is our target group . And uh what function , working design , how how does it work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So these are the two things we should come up wit with . So uh the first thing is pro maybe a little easier on uh who is our target group . Um . I guess in many ways everybody . Everybody who has a T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , T_V_ , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "T_V_ television we was .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and I think today there are probably not many people who don't have a T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Don't T_V_ , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There are a few but in general not . {vocalsound} Now , talking about the target group which is in a sense everybody , but I think within the target group we have subgroups . We have {disfmarker} we have earlier it was mentioned about um for example elderly people who have limited function with their fingers and hands ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so I think that's uh one group that's certainly important .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um then we have just the nervous people who can never press a little button on anything um unless it's really very clear .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh I don't know how much we want to cater to children's use . I mean that's a question um whether that's important that children can really use it or not .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So this {disfmarker} these are just some thoughts I have on it , and um I dunno what you feel about whether we can just say we have one target group and for this one target group we're gonna design this one thing {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or whether we're looking at what we like we we talking about different shapes , whether that different shape also includes maybe different uh buttons uh for different groups .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Well you know there's the old motto , children under six never shop alone .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So if you've designed something that's very attractive to children um the mummy please mummy please um you know we want it now we wanna go to the store and see it um that has uh a lot of marketing pull .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That has a lot of {disfmarker} that has a lot of appeal but I think uh I'm I'm talking about the functionality now on it whether we're looking at different groups .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think the children issue can be addressed with the shape and with colours .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You know , like you make it nice and pink , fluorescent , banana colour or whatever {vocalsound} you know",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Different colours .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can make a banana shaped one . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , for example you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But the question is really , who is our target group .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Do we look at one target group ? {vocalsound} And with the twenty five Euros you know can we can we afford to have uh I'm asking the technical people here whether um to look at sort of subgroups with maybe different buttons for each group how much would that throw us out of the cost we are supposed to respect ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Respect . Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . No uh generally we can we can design a remote which is mainly for people with uh f age from ten to um forty",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and and then we can add on uh specific functional buttons for children as well as the elderly people or the people wit with who have nervous problems , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "With with {disfmarker} Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We can design different remotes for different people , like for aged people there will be big buttons and you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well that's that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But in a family {disfmarker} in a family there will be a aged person , children and a middle aged but they cannot buy three different remotes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} yeah . Children and everybody , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "They would like to buy just one and um just one which can be used all the three uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah of course that we can do , but specifically if y if like elderly people want big buttons then you can't really make a bi big remote controller so maybe specifically you can design a big con remote controller for elderly and for children , like in a different you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What about the electronics ? That's not really gonna change much , is it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Cost effective .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , it it doesn't cost , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That {vocalsound} that w that won't change much , will it uh ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Doesn't doesn't doesn't matter .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The the quest the question to be addressed here is only who is the target group and how will it function ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I d I wouldn't think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and I think the how will it function is probably the question of the buttons you know , within the target group or subgroups .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The question is only whether our budget will allow to have more than one design in a sense . I mean the basic design I understand will be the same ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but the question is how much will that set us back if let's say {vocalsound} uh forty percent we make large buttons and the rest we make regular buttons for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that remains to s to be seen but {vocalsound} uh the target group as a whole is is basically everybody with a T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's right ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and can we {disfmarker} can we is it even feasible to make one one remote control with something for everyone , or would we have to use the same electronics and make three different shapes ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well that's that's the question .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um the same electronics and basically all that's gonna be different is the plastic case .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And in that case we could probabl moulded plastic isn't all that expensive is it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh no . Mm , I I I don't think no . It's not .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um you as an industrial person ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well maybe there's {disfmarker} there's an idea you know t the new for example new portable phones ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "They have like removable plastic cases , so you can have a striped one or you can have a fluorescent blue one , or whatever ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and maybe something like that ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that in each package you know you have {disfmarker} you you have {disfmarker} you have for example uh {vocalsound} you have let's say a fluorescent blue on it but then you have uh another colour or stripe whatever that already comes in a package .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well there's a real idea yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then if people really want more colours they can buy it separately .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You know ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , like for mobile phones we have uh different you know covers , like designs and all so that w we can have that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's right ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker} but like if if then everybody is is is tired of the fluorescent blue and of the striped or whatever they have as another one in the package ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "then they can go to the store and for a few uh Francs or Euros whatever they can buy",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "An alternate package .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "an alternate package with another two colours in it you know for example you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh yeah I I have a doubt like will it be cost wise effective if we {disfmarker} if we design a remote having all the uh different features for different people or designing three different um remotes for three different categories of people .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I think {disfmarker} I think the idea here is to uh to to d design one remote",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well I think we can only aff {gap} , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and what the only change is gonna be um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the funct d t yeah uh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Cosmetic .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Of th okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the functional {vocalsound} functional cosmetics if you want to put it that way ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "um having maybe larger buttons or buttons that light up or buttons that are slightly differently shaped for people uh either for children um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Five minutes that was I guess tha that's the old message .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Warning , finish meeting now . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Finish meeting now . Um um .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well we may have to come back to one or two of these points at our next meeting but um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe , yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If we do some more research , maybe we {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I I think to sum it up the target group is basically everybody . If money permits we can address some features for some subgroups within that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do we agree , do we ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think maybe seventy percent is a unique uh uh remote controller and thirty percent is yeah it's sort of like {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay but we have to l",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do we agree on on that in principle , like money will tell whether we will be able to do that or not .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , of course , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , fair enough .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay ? So now I understand it's lunch break .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And um . So that's what we will do .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So hank you very much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And we'll see you after lunch .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
}
] |
IS1009c | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"6",
"19"
]
],
"topic": "Recap of previous meeting"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"35",
"118"
]
],
"topic": "Interface of the remote"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"127",
"213"
]
],
"topic": "Component design of the remote"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"215",
"222"
]
],
"topic": "Findings for marketing"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"306",
"327"
]
],
"topic": "Wrap up of the meeting"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "After Project Manager recapped the decisions made in the last meeting, such as having a child lock and display clock, User Interface started the presentation regarding how to make the interface more attractive to customers. Then, Industrial Designer gave the presentation on the component design of the remote, which was divided into two parts - the components in the remote and the working design. Afterwards, Marketing reported findings for marketing like the people wanting fewer buttons which the functions were obvious. In the end, Project Manager wrapped up the meeting, concluding what had to be done by each of them for the next meeting.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The general idea for the remote was that it should be easy to use, attractive and electricity saving. People might lose it a lot and it could be sold by using a slogan. For the technical aspect, the remote should have a chip with an interface that controls it, infrared bulbs, battery, wires, buttons and holder. There should be extra features such as timer, lid buttons, on-off button, channel lock and display clock. The remote could be in different shapes, preferably compact and T-shaped. The material should be of non-allergic nature. The different systems that exist were infrared and radio-waves.",
"query": "Summarize the recap of the last meeting.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"6",
"19"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "There would be nine channel switches and a memory switch. There would be buttons for the next channel, subtitles, increasing and decreasing volume, mute and controlling features like colour, contrast, sharpness, brightness of picture. There also could be a speech recognition feature, which would be an integrated programmable sample sensor speaker unit that had voice recognizers to record the user's voice and change functionalities accordingly. It was agreed that the interface should be simple with important features.",
"query": "What would be the interface design of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"35",
"62"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The interfaces shown on the slides were a remote that had voice recognizer with multi-purpose use such as for TV and cable-satellite, a simple and compact one that a child can use and could play with it and a big oversized remote that cannot be misplaced. The team agreed that the T-shaped design and the children-friendly interface were nice but the over-big one was not ideal.",
"query": "What did the team think about the slides with different types of the interface during the discussion of the interface design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"65",
"114"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "There should be a strong and recyclable case that was not made from harmful materials such as plastic. A resistor, capacitor, diode, transistor, circuit board and resonator should be in the remote, along with a timer and alarm facility. The integrated circuit could be highly sophisticated for higher efficiency and should be resistant to high and low temperatures. Also, colouring components could be used if the remote was to have different colours. For the battery, it could be rechargeable as people can use it for a long time and saves costs for production.",
"query": "What were the components discussed during the presentation of the component design that were required for the construction of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"134",
"149"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When a button was pressed, a small circuit underneath the button would send signals through the wires to the chip. The chip would know which button was pressed and produce a morse code signal specific to that button, which the transistor would amplify the signal. The LED would receive the signal and translate it into infrared light. The sensor on the TV would receive the infrared light which contained the signals and would react accordingly.",
"query": "What did Industrial Designer say about the working design of the remote during the discussion of the component design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"150",
"156"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "It was agreed that the circuit board would be printed in bulk as it would be cheaper with no wires and both regular and advanced chips could be made on print, including the infrared sender. A scroll wheel, presented as an alternative to push buttons, required a more sophisticated chip, making it more costly than push buttons, which require a regular chip. Hence, the team agreed to have push buttons to save cost. On the other hand, the case would be bright, colourful and strong with a trendy design. The battery was foreseen to be the energy source of the remote.",
"query": "What was agreed by the team about the component design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"157",
"211"
],
[
"259",
"279"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Materials could be made from plastic, rubber or wood and the remote could be in different cases. Speech recognition was pending for more research on how much it cost. In addition, there were doubts from Industrial Designer on this feature as there might be trouble in recognizing different voices.",
"query": "What was left open to discuss about the component design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"192",
"192"
],
[
"198",
"198"
],
[
"242",
"258"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "People liked something that fit their hand and fewer buttons which the functions were obvious. They didn't want to squint at small prints and didn't care for different modes. The appearance of the remote should be eye-catching and appealing. The remote had to be in the market before competition for Christmas. Fruit and vegetable shapes were very popular this year and people were back into a soft and spongy feel with a little cloth. The star features of the remote should be narrowed down to one or two and voice recognizer could be an option.",
"query": "Summarize the presentation about findings for marketing.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"215",
"222"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer was supposed to have the look and feel of the design, User Interface should have come up with user interface design and Marketing should have the product evaluation for the next meeting. Furthermore, User Interface and Marketing had to work together on a prototype using modelling clay and everyone would receive specific instructions sent by coaches.",
"query": "Summarize the wrap up of the meeting.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"306",
"327"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay . Hello everyone . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um how uh how we doing ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , good .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh first we going uh over the minutes of the last meeting , more or less .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um in the last meeting uh the marketing manager had presented uh her method of working , meaning gathering i suggestions from everyone to see how she best could market uh this this product at the {disfmarker} within the budget uh that was given . Uh in general {vocalsound} the idea is that it should be something that is not difficult to use . Um it's also an item that people lose a lot . So we should address that . And , of course , it should be something s s that is very simple to use . In addition to that to make it sell , of course , uh the marketing manager w wishes that it be very attractive ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or like she says put some sizzle into it in one way or another so that the people are buying it now because , in particular with smaller items , that's a very important fact , 'cause um if they say , well , I go home and think about it , that won't work . Um also mentioned was it should be uh {disfmarker} it should have a very short learning curve . And maybe it could be sold by using a slogan .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Our technical manager has then said that she feels it should have a chip",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that has infra-red bits and it has an interface controls w interface that controls the chip . Therefore , messages uh will be controlled in the same manner . There should be extra features like lid buttons , maybe a beep . If too many buttons are pressed , mm uh uh child lock um and uh maybe a display clock so that people could um {disfmarker} you could see the time , you know , what show they want to watch . Also mentioned was uh maybe different shapes . So the components of the thing should be button , bulbs , infra infra-red bulbs , battery , chips , wires , and maybe some kind of a holder uh for the for the uh item . Francino who is our um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Interface designer .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "interface designer um uh has mentioned that the {disfmarker} that it , of course , should have an on-off button , and also has mentioned an interesting feature that it should have maybe a channel lock . Particularly with maybe small children that they couldn't uh watch a channel that is undesirable . It should be compact . Her personal favourite was it should be T-shaped . And maybe have an anar alarm-clock . And the material should possibly be not of non-allergic nature . Uh the different systems uh that exist are infra-red or radio-waves . Uh maybe it should have uh electri electrici electricity saving feature .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And {vocalsound} even possibly a timer to {disfmarker} so that people can program {vocalsound} their favourite uh uh program on th right from the remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh are we all in agreement that that's about what we discussed last time ? Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think that pretty much is it . Yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , then we {disfmarker} I'm looking for three presentations . And uh I don't know whether the order matters much uh , I don't I don't think so , so whoever w wants {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I can start first .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Now my slide , please . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , your slides . Okay . Oh , come on , close already .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And that's number two , right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Participant three . Yes . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Now as an interface designer , I would give more emphasis on the interface , how the remote looks like so that it is sellable , it is attractive to customers . Next , please . Okay . Now the function of a remote is to send messages to the television . This messages could be uh switch on-off message or switch to next channel message or swapping the channels or switching onto a particular channel , like you can have the numbers one , two , three , four , up to nine .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nine what ? Nine channel uh switches ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Pardon me ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nine channel switches ? Is {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , nine numbers . And then you have swapping of uh button",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "by which {disfmarker} using which you can swap the channels if you don't want to see the third channel you can swap it to the fourth channel or vice versa . Then it should have a next button , and next button channel by which you can keep on uh v uh mm eh scrolling the channels one by one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Going to the nex next .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Next slide , please .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then you should have a button which should which ca which can be used for increasing or decreasing the volume .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then , there should be a button which can give subtitles for a particular program which is going on a television . For example , if you are watching a French program and you would like to have a subtitles in English , then there should be a channel which can trigger this mechanism in the television so that the user can see uh the {gap} the subtitles on the screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then there should d uh there should be some buttons which can control features like the colour , colour of the picture , the contrast , sharpness , brightness of the picture . Now there should be a memory switch . There should be a mute button . Suddenly if if if uh uh viewer he gets a telephone call , and if he want he doesn't want to switch off the uh T_V_ , but he he can reduce the sound , he can bring the volume down and he can watch {disfmarker} he can uh {disfmarker} while talking he can watch the T_V_ . Now the most important feature I would like to have in my remote would be the speech recognition feature . It's an integrated progra programmable sample sensor speaker unit . So a remote can be th can be uh designed which can have the voice recognisers , you can record your own voice",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "which can be recognised by as voice recogniser in the television , for example , if you want to see {disfmarker} we if you want to see the ninth channel if you say just say ninth channel , uh th now the the {disfmarker} uh yeah , the remote will {disfmarker} automatically it will switch to the ninth channel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So the T_V_ will have some recogniser which will recognise the user's voice and accordingly it will change its functionalities .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So this is one of the very important feature a remote control can have . So this is one one of the interface which can be created .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A very simple interface which has all the t uh uh important features .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then , please , next slide .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then , these are some of the remotes which are different in shape and colour , but they have many buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh sometimes the user finds it very difficult to recognise which button is for what function and all that . So you can you can design an interface which is very simple , and which is user-friendly . Even a kid can use that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So can you go on t t uh to the next slide . Yeah , so this is one of the interface or one of the remote which has this vi voice recogniser .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And this has multi-purpose use , it can be used for T_V_ , it can be used for cable-satellite , it can be used for V_C_R_ , D_V_D_s and audio . And this has in-built voice recogniser .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can you go on to the next slide ? Yeah , now this is an interface for a chil uh for a remote uh uh which a child can use .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh this is user-friendly , it's very attractive and uh children can use it as well as they can play with it . And this comes with different colours , different shapes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And this this uh child uh interface has minimum buttons",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and all the important uh buttons are there in this small , compact , attractive child interface . Next slide , please . Now this is a big over-sized remote which cannot be misplaced or it's impossible to misplace .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You don't know me .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} {gap} this . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I could lose that in a minute . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So this is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} No this is a very big , you cannot {vocalsound} misplace it anywhere .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So this is a jumbo universal remote control and it's impossible to im misplace or lose . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This i this is one such interface which can be created . {vocalsound} And the personal preference {vocalsound} uh would be a spe uh uh to incorporate speech recognisers uh which will respond to user's voice for a particular uh function .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you , that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Okay , thank you very much . Uh any comments on uh her presentation ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , um looks like we still have quite a choice of things out there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um what uh {vocalsound} I'm {disfmarker} No suggestion's bad .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But uh we're gonna have to narrow it down a little more . I don't think that we can get uh {disfmarker} The T-shape is good , the child one is good , the too big to misplace , I think it's just funny .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um I don't think that's gonna be our impulse purchase at the checkout counter .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I I th I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's it's gonna be a little bit too unwieldy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , I think the these are her presentations , but uh as far as the decision making we getting to that after after",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah mm . Mm-hmm . Have to come back to that later . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We can .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but if {disfmarker} I just wanted to know whether anybody had any any anything to add to her presentation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I think her presentation was good , and she really explored all the options . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm right . Mm-hmm . Ho who wants to go next um ? Mm-hmm . Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Participant two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh the next one , sorry .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oops .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's it was the old one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The components design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Components .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um this time I'm I'm going to um concentrate more on the components and the technical side of the remote controller design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , can you go on to the next slide , please .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I have just brief {vocalsound} uh down few uh components which we require for the remote control uh construction .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh the first one is case to keep all the components like integrated circuit , battery , etcetera , etcetera , it's like {disfmarker} Uh it can be a plastic one , hard plastic , so that it can be strong , even if you just uh uh , {vocalsound} you know , if you {vocalsound} {disfmarker} if it falls down , then it doesn't {vocalsound} break . So it should be strong .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh uh there are no harmful materials used in that . And it should be recyclable .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh and uh {vocalsound} ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Good point .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , and also uh using of colouring compon components like uh if we want to have different colours , blue , red , green , so uh uh we have to use uh some colouring compone compone components . And uh the second important thing is uh uh uh integrated circuit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh which uh we can use a highly sophisticated one because it's like the it's like the heart of the remote controller . If it is not efficient then everything wi is going to be uh like um the lef ess less efficient so it {disfmarker} you should {disfmarker} we should have a highly sophisticated one . And it should be resistant to high as well as uh low temperatures . Suppose if it is thirty-eight degrees outside forty degrees outside , it should it should uh {vocalsound} be able to re uh resist the uh temperature uh uh highs and uh high temperatures and low temperatures . And uh it should be with uh {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} equipped with timer and alarm facility . And the uh other component we should {disfmarker} uh we have in the remote controller is a resistor uh which is like uh uh i it is very very much important for the electricity uh flow through {vocalsound} through through the uh remote controller and uh also a capacitor which is a b which is a m I think it's it's like a battery , capacitor . Can you go on to the next slide , please ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh a diode , a transistor , a resonator , these are all this uh technical uh electri electronic compons uh components which are {disfmarker} which we have to use in a remote controller . A battery uh , I would like to suggest one thing uh if we {disfmarker} uh if we will be able to make a res rechargeable battery then we sh we need not go for a high performance battery , even if it is a low performance battery it ca it can't l it can't charge much .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It it it's not a high voltage battery . Then also we can {disfmarker} If it is a rechargeable one , then uh people can use it for a long time , so in that way we can cut cut the cost , but w uh uh that we have to make the battery as rechargeable one . And we we have a circuit board uh in a remote controller . Can you go to the next slide , please . And how it works , how the remote controller works .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Go away .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . Uh when you press a button , when you do that , you complete a specific connection that means when you when you press a button there will be a s a small circuit underneath the button , and it will send some signals through the wires ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and then uh the chip will send start connection and knows that which button is pressed . Suppose you have pressed channel one button , number one you have pressed , then the uh chip will know that the number one button was pressed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It pros produces a mors morse code line signal specific to that button . Every button , every individual button , has its own morse code . Suppose uh the uh user has pressed butto button one , then it will have a spe the circuit will generate a specific morse code to b {vocalsound} that that button , and the transistor will amplify the signal and send then to the L_E_D_ which translates the signal into infrared light . Like {vocalsound} you have got a signal by pressing a button . That's a d a morse code has been generated by the integrated circuit . Now , that signal , that morse code , has to be amplified by the transistor . That is the use of transist transistor we {disfmarker} which we use in the remote controller . It will amplify the signal and it will send it to the L_E_D_ and which translates the signal into an infra infrared bits . The sensor on the T_V_ can see the infrared light , and seeing the signal seeing the signal re it reacts appropriately , that when it sees the amplified mo morse code signal , then it will uh it will uh know which uh what what action it has to uh do . Then it will do the appropriate action . So uh this is how the remote controller works .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It works .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Can you go to the next slide , please . Yeah , I have few pictures . When you look at the uh um remote controller uh it's it's {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} this is a normal remote controller . And {gap} to the next slide , please .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And where we had a a few buttons and all . And uh if you open the remote controller you have this circui circuit board and few electronic components ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "like you can see a chip there which is having eighteen pins ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and also a capac uh a capacitor , three resistors and also a resonator uh um mm {disfmarker} yeah , and di and a diode transistor .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The electronic components {disfmarker} uh all of the electronic components have all those uh things like a chip and d {vocalsound} diode transistors an Yeah , di um can y uh you can see the T_A_ double one eight three five labelled uh chip um .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh you can also see the uh uh the green {disfmarker} two green things are uh these are {disfmarker} they are {disfmarker} they are resistors ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh just beside that you can see a transistor , and a uh uh cylinder shape , uh that one is a capacitor . Uh and also there are uh {vocalsound} um resistors {disfmarker} uh sorry , ther there is a diode .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can you go {disfmarker} go on to the next slide .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh this is the circuit board . The green one is a circuit board . Actually , uh building a circuit bo board is pretty pretty uh easy and also it's a it's a l l inexpensive . Uh it's it costs less than what you print on a paper , because uh {vocalsound} uh when you {disfmarker} when you are building uh some circuits {disfmarker} some um uh circuits and also wires , it's it's better to go for printing , because uh you can build these kind of k circuit boards on a on a bulk and it's just printing , nothing like uh , you know , you don't need to use wires and all .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's not exactly wires we are using . It's just printing something on a board .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Tha tho those prints will acti act as wires and ci uh circuits . So th that green uh thing is a circuit board , and also you can see uh there are b s like uh um access for buttons , like when you press a button , the circuit under the button will be activated uh th it will it will he get some signals from it and it will uh it will ch its ch se send a signal {disfmarker} signals to the , yeah , um integrated circuit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Transmit .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Can you go to the next slide , please . Uh so this is {disfmarker} these are the circuits un underneath the buttons . Uh can you see the black uh , round marks ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "They they are the circuits .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Next , please . And um like uh we have uh designed uh before we have seen some uh few things like {vocalsound} instead off buttons we have some scrolls . Uh b but a b a push-button requires a simple chip underneath it , but whereas a scroll wheel requires normally a regular chip which is a higher price range . Like for s scrolls we have to go for a sophisticated and and k uh {vocalsound} uh uh full {disfmarker} a complete chip .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh and a as energy source we offer a basic battery , a more ingenious uh hard dynamo , um a kinetic provision of energy , more than what is that you shake casually to provide energy . So that also we can have in a battery , uh or we can use solar sells . Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm , that's interesting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh yeah uh the product can be de delivered into different cases . Uh usually , the cases and card flat {vocalsound} that w we see usually uh d uh a normal remote controller .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And you have more pictures . Uh we have five minutes to the end of the meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe d uh I have just one more slide , I think . Um . Like we can have a ma material such as plastic , rubber , wood , titanium , but titanium we can't use . Um and also for electronics we can use a simple and regular um re {vocalsound} or an advanced chip on the print , um also infra it includes the infrared se sender . Um yeah the uh {disfmarker} for the movie just to j develop uh samples and so spe sample speaker . An Yeah , that's it . It's all for me now ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Any particular comments by anybody ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah , on the scroll and the push-button , um ca you can achieve scrolling by repeatedly pushing a button ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , no , no , th the the the scrolling wheels are different , like you can go for a sw switches like buttons or scrolls , uh {vocalsound} which which we used to do before ten ten years before , I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now , nobody uses that because you need you need a a k sophisticated chip and all .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I think it's better we go for uh um ordinary buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um . We'll just go for push buttons",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah uh yeah , push-buttons . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Push-buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "for {disfmarker} in the interest of cost .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We don't have a lot of time left and we will still have to make a decision , and the marketing expert has to present her her thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . Go right to my first {disfmarker} my next slide .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um alright , my method is uh {disfmarker} I'm interested in what the competition is doing , and wanna see how we can make ourselves different from the competition , so I've really been looking at the press and the ads that are out there for other remote controllers . I s I {vocalsound} spend a lot of time on the internet um surfing around doing the same thing . And then when I'm out um in people's houses or at meetings or anything like that , I try to notice what kind of remote controls people have , and if it's convenient in the conversation I ask about it . And I would encourage you all to do the same . Um and my findings from this is that , you know , small is beautiful . Um people like something that really fits in their hand .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Simple is beautiful . They don't want to have to squint at small print um , they want buttons whose functions are obvious , and they want um as few buttons as possible , and they don't {vocalsound} care for the mode thing . They want each button to do something . And eye-catching is important . It's gotta look cute , it's gotta look appealing . Go ahead , I'm trying to finish fast for you . Um {vocalsound} and our preference is , as far as I'm concerned , are we got to get to the market before the competition . Ours has to be {disfmarker} look really great and it has to come out before the others , so that we have a leg up on time to sell it and push it before other people get out their Christmas item . And we should develop one or two features we can really dwell on in our ad campaign . If we try to tell people it has too many great features , um the consumer just gets confused and we don't get anywhere . So we've gotta narrow our selection down to {vocalsound} li {vocalsound} two things , I think , that we gonna say are really great about our our our new product . And I've been looking around um at what designs {disfmarker} every year different things are popular . And in my research this year I found out that fruit and vegetable shapes are really popular . And people are tired of hard plastic and hard metal . They are more back into soft feel , spongy feeling things , things with maybe a little cloth on them . So those are things maybe we wanna look at as far as saleability of the item .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh that concludes the presentation of everyone . And what we really have to decide in this meeting is um the concept of the remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh so what do we think on the concept",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "of the remote ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You wanna try to come back to yours , and limit yours a bit ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Y {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yes , I would like to include this feature which is called as voice recogniser .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So speech recognition is most important as far as you're concerned ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This could be uh one feature which could be sellable .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but w",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah h that could that could that could be our star feature .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That that {gap} be really good , yeah , I agree with that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but I what I'm uh very very much doubtful how {vocalsound} how uh far it will work , because a speech recogniser like i it it has its own uh uh problems , issues .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Distance problem ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's not distance problem it it's recognising a person's voice ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "like maybe different people will be having different voices , so it like it's uh {disfmarker} everything so i",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , you you teach {disfmarker} You have to teach uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So to get a good recogni recognising system , it's a costly thing , I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , it's it's , uh yeah , it it's like your recording of uh all uh um a question already , and then you're expecting an answer from th For example , you have a T_V_ system , I'm the user and my family members are the user ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I will already record uh a question like , uh good morning ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "like around eight o'clock I want to see the news in the television .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I'll say just good morning and the T_V_ will switch on . It will recognise my voice and will switch on .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , before we get too far off here um , the components of the concept is the energy . What kind of energy do we foresee ? Battery .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think I think battery ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Battery .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Battery .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and I think we all agreed on that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That that's that's gonna be most cost-effective and the best thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay then {vocalsound} chip on print .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the case . And I think we all agree on the case , we wanna have something uh maybe bright , colourful .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Bright , colourful , trendy trendy design , and strong .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And compact .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And also strong .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Trendy design and compact .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Trendy , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Trendy design , compact and strong .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "User interface concept , uh {vocalsound} interface type , supplements",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That will be your area I think , right , Jana .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh . Um like the switches , like we use buttons for user interface .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Push-buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Put uh k I guess uh for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Push-buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah . And {vocalsound} Not sure what they mean by supplements .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Supplements like different types of features buttons , like can have a f mute button or a swapping button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , I think that {disfmarker} Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or {vocalsound} or like her speech recognition would also be a supplement .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh . A what ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Her speech recognition feature would be a supplement .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Right , right , right , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Recogniser . Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so why don't we put down speech recognition if possible pending some more research from our industrial engineer on how expensive that is .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh our next meeting will be in thirty minutes , and the uh I_D_ is to {disfmarker} this is the individual actions to be taken until then , to have the look and feel design , and uh the U_I_D_ is supposed to {vocalsound} uh come up with the user interface design ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and the marketing expert with the product evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "In this phase , the two of you , Jana and Francine , have to work together on a prototype using modelling clay , it says here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You will receive specific {vocalsound} instructions {vocalsound} will be sent to you by your coaches .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um if you have any questions , you know , you you can always uh contact me um or uh or your coach , I suppose . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Wherever they're hiding ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um {vocalsound} so um I think we conclude the meeting here and we come back in uh uh thirty minutes , according to our timetable here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
IS1009d | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"4",
"18"
]
],
"topic": "Recap of previous meeting"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"19",
"89"
]
],
"topic": "Design of the prototype remote"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"90",
"212"
]
],
"topic": "Feedback for the prototype remote"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"215",
"317"
]
],
"topic": "Financing of the remote"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"318",
"546"
]
],
"topic": "Project evaluation and team building"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager first recapped the previous meeting, concluding that the remote should be compact, user-friendly and could function like speech recognition. Next, the presentation of the bright blue snail shaped prototype was made by Industrial Designer and User Interface, introducing the appearance and features of the remote. Then, feedback was given regarding the prototype, which was mainly positive and speech recognition and cute appearance were decided as its star feature. Afterwards, the team discussed the financing of the remote, which should be within the budget of twelve fifty euros. Finally, the meeting ended with a project evaluation, which everyone was satisfied with the product and dynamic of the team, and team building.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The main function of the remote would be sending messages to the TV. For the interface, it should have nine channel buttons, a next button, volume buttons, subtitle buttons and switches to control features, colour contrast, sharpness etc. Interface Designer said that looks would be very important for the remote so the remote should be child-friendly with few buttons and could be colourful with star-shaped or other shaped buttons. An oversized remote was presented but was challenged by the team. Speech recognition was a feature that Interface Designer wanted to include.",
"query": "Summarize the recap of the last meeting regarding the presentation by User Interface.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"6",
"15"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Making a recyclable and colourful case out of plastic that was strong without using harmful materials was proposed. For the components, there would be a resistor, a capacitor, a diode transistor, resonator, and if possible, a rechargeable battery. Also, it should have an integrated circuit board that was highly sophisticated, temperature resistant and inexpensive. Furthermore, it was hoped that there would be a timer or alarm. For the working design, morse code would be relayed to the generator for amplification after buttons were pressed. The team thought push buttons were better than scroll wheel as the former was more practical and cheap.",
"query": "Summarize the recap of the last meeting regarding the presentation by Industrial Designer.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"18"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Apart from being small, easy to use and eye-catching, the remote should have buttons, a soft feel and a trendy design, possibly incorporating fruit and vegetable elements. Marketing proposed having one or two star features that the campaign could be built on and speech recognition could be one of the options. Also, the energy source should be a battery. It was highlighted that the remote should get to the market before the competition.",
"query": "Summarize the recap of the last meeting regarding the presentation by Marketing.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"18",
"18"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The prototype was attractive, bright blue and snail shaped with buttons in different colours such as yellow. It was compact so it could easily fit in the hand and buttons could be easily accessed. Moreover, the material for the case would be plastic but the buttons would be made with soft rubber. For the light emitting diode of the LED, it would be fluorescent green and it would be a bulb like an ordinary infrared. Last but not least, there would be an oyster-shaped holder for the remote.",
"query": "What did Industrial Designer say about the appearance during the discussion about the design of the prototype?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"19",
"51"
],
[
"168",
"168"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Features of the remote include signal-emitting LED, on-off switch, mute button, nine channel buttons, two buttons for increasing or decreasing volume, two buttons for scrolling up or down channels and menu button at the centre, which would control the colour, sharpness, brightness etc. Also, there would be an elongated shaped swapping button that was slightly flexible. If it was turned to the left, the TV would change to the previous channel that the user was watching and if to the right, the next channel. The remote has an inbuilt voice recognizer that would recognize the user's voice and act accordingly.",
"query": "What features did User Interface present regarding the design of the prototype?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"52",
"89"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing liked how users could reach all the buttons with one thumb, even for someone with a small hand, so users did not need to shift it around or operate with two hands. Also, it was good that the on-off button was in a prominent place and the colours of the remote were attractive. Mute buttons were on either side so it would work for left- or right-handed people. On the other hand, channel buttons would be inscribed with numbers and the rest would be marked with easily recognized symbols that would be ideal for the international market.",
"query": "What was the feedback regarding the prototype of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"90",
"167"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing suggested that they could do something funny for the shell as the snail was known to be slow and they could have a comic effect about how this was a rapid snail. User Interface and Industrial Designer agreed.",
"query": "What did Marketing suggest during giving feedback for the prototype of the remote?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"168",
"190"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Voice recognition would be a major selling point as it was unusual and there were no remotes that had this function in the same price range. Another selling point would be its appearance as it would be the cutest remote control. The snail image could be used as a visual attraction. Practicality would not be one of its special features because all competition would feature this.",
"query": "What were the special features for the remote discussed during feedback for the prototype?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"191",
"212"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Battery would be the energy source and the electronics would be regular chips on print. For the case, it would be double-curved and made from plastic in special colours, whereas buttons would come in different forms and colour and would be made in rubber or wood. In addition, there would be no clock. With the cost of eight twenty, the remote was within budget with the cost of voice recognizer excluded. Only four thirty euros was left to cover it so they would have to settle with what they get within the budget with no money for other special features.",
"query": "Summarize the financing of the remote.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"215",
"303"
],
[
"350",
"384"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The prototype should be shown to people of various age and socio-economic groups to see if there should be any fine-tuning. Also, it should be shown to consumer research groups for feedback. Marketing concluded that the prototype reached the goal of being biomorphic, soft and compact with bright and warm colours and felt good in hands. All in all, Marketing believed that it was a great product and would be saleable in the market.",
"query": "What were Marketing's comments on the remote during the project evaluation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"318",
"347"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "On a scale of one to seven, with one being good and seven being the worst, everyone rated the shape and colour of the remote with a one. The size was given a mark of four by Marketing, a two by Project Manager and the others gave it a one. For the feel, which included texture and comfort, it scored a three with User Interface and a two for the rest. Functionality was given a two by User Interface and Marketing and a three by the other two. All in all, the team was satisfied with the product.",
"query": "Summarize the product evaluation that was during the project evaluation.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"390",
"444"
],
[
"473",
"478"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer suggested that there could be more buttons and the buttons could be smaller. If having the speech recognition feature was feasible, buttons would be added for recording speech so Marketing suggested that one of the mute buttons could be eliminated to make room and Industrial Designer and User Interface agreed. Marketing also suggested volume control could be put on one button.",
"query": "What was discussed for improvement of the remote during project evaluation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"445",
"472"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing, User Interface and Industrial Designer thought Project Manager did a good job. Project Manager believed that the teamwork was great and this opinion was echoed by the other three team members. Whiteboard was used during the meeting but digital pens were not and the team agreed that they could have used the whiteboard a bit more. The team mostly used the slide because it was better positioned.",
"query": "What was the feedback for leadership, teamwork and means used during the pro evaluation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"479",
"503"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Well hi everyone again .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hello",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {vocalsound} like before we uh {disfmarker} I have to redo the meetings from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} n th the minutes from the last meeting",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and so here we go . Uh it was discussed in the last meeting uh which was opened by the presentation from the interface um designer {vocalsound} that uh looks would be very important on this new remote",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Designer . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and um it is to send messages of course to the T_V_ . It should have nine channel buttons , a next button , volume buttons , subtitle buttons , switch to control features , colour contrast , sharpness etcetera . It should have a memory switch , a mute button in case the telephone rings or something . Uh speech recognition is one of her very f favourite personal uh features she would like see d d to be integrated in this um in this new remote . Um . {vocalsound} Should be child friendly design with few buttons , colourful maybe with s star shaped or other shaped buttons . Um she uh presented also an oversized remote which she guarantees nobody will ever be able to lose .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And she was challenged on that point {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} that's right . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But uh her very f personal favourite really she , she would very much like to see a speech recogniser integrated in this remote . The industrial designer um presented her uh {vocalsound} thoughts on the issue . She would like a special case made out of plastic that is very strong , not using any harmful materials , should be recyclable and should be colourful . Should have an integrated circuit board that's highly sophisticated and temperature resistant . She would like to see a timer and or alarm facility integrated . Uh technically this thing would also have a resistor and a capacitor , diode transistor , resonator , and if possible a rechargeable battery . Uh and of course a circuit board . And how it would works , you press the button , the chip is morse {disfmarker} morse code related relays the {disfmarker} uh to the generat to the generator amplification and uh the circuit board is very inexpensive to build and so she thinks this is a great feature uh to to to consider .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "She would like uh {disfmarker} this whole thing should be push buttons with a simple chip uh scrolling method is more expensive and not that practical anymore . Should be battery operated and of course she would have the special cases . The marketing expert uh who has to finally come up with {disfmarker} to to to market this product has been watching the competition , has done some research on the internet and also has used h her personal observations to come up with the fact that such a remote sh should be small , easy to use and it should be eye catching . From her point of view of course one of the most important facts is that we should get to market before our competition does . To do that uh maybe one or two features should be developed on which we could dwell on or in other words on which our campaign could be built on . Too many new features or too many points would only confuse matter . So we prefer to have one or two features that can be really uh driven home . Um it should have a fruit and vegetable design and should have a soft feel . She feels that's really what people want today . And the decision that we took last time was that uh the special feature we would like to see is a speech recogniser , the energy should be battery uh should be on a chip , should be trendy design , compact and strong , and should have buttons . And that concludes the presentation from the last minutes {disfmarker} from the last meeting . Now uh we are ready for the presentation of the prototype .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just the look like , the button part I'll explain .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh so this is our {disfmarker} what uh we have made . This is a model of the remote control which we are going to build .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh this is us in a snail shape so uh it it is attractive",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "um and it's {disfmarker} it's blue in colour uh bright and uh it has yellow buttons and all the different colour buttons",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so it is a {disfmarker} uh uh a {disfmarker} looks-wise it is beautiful .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh and also compact in shape .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh um and also i it it will be easily fit into {disfmarker} into the hands and you can access all the buttons easily .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "oops , sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You used to have all the buttons {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um yeah and um uh the material which we are going to use for the case is uh plastic and uh w which which is s strong um uh and also uh for the {disfmarker} Um the material is plastic and uh for the buttons it is uh s soft rubber um and als",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh that's good ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "no , that's nice and friendly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah because uh uh you'll be touching the buttons more so it is soft when you touch it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led , for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent green",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now the um {disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote . Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Now uh we have included the switch on and off button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now we have included another feature that is the mute button",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "on the side of the model . Then we have included one to nine buttons",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} the different channels .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And we have also included two buttons for scrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels . Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What kind of button ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Menu button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Menu ? Uh menu th menu , uh one one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , menu {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Menu button . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "At the centre",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour , sharpness , brightness",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Of the screen . Mm , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "of this uh picture . We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button . Now this is uh a special , special feature which we have included . Now this button is an elongated shaped button and this is slightly flexible so if it is turned towards the right it will take to the previous channel , if it is turned towards the right it will take to the next channel . It will take the user to the previous and the next channel so this is a swapping button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The next channel in the numeric pattern , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , swapping is if if example you're {disfmarker} you're watching the second channel and then you go to the tenth channel and if you want to go back to the second channel you can swap , this button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , mm-hmm . Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And at the end , it {disfmarker} this remote has inbuilt voice recogniser which c which will recognise the user's voice and then it'll act accordingly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So this is our proposed model .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now the marketing expert has to",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Tell , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "give her suggestion whether it'll be sellable {vocalsound} or it'll be cost effective .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , well um what {disfmarker} what I really like a lot about it is that you can reach the whole thing with one thumb ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that you can really hold it in one h you don't need two hands",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and it's easily reachable even for somebody with a small hand , yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes the buttons are all raised , right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The buttons are all raised",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Are raised , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and if you hold it in the centre of your hand you can even reach it over here so you don't have to turn it around , turn it upside down , move it up , up and down ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Right . Or have two hands to operate it , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I really like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You really did a good job on that , my little designers .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button is in a really prominent place . That's that's a really good good thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's great .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you don't have to g first go like oh yeah here it's on and yeah , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Abs okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The colour's very attractive . Um the um these buttons uh around here are the mute",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here , are the mute buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're mute ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you can push either one ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And this brings the menu up on the screen ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Pardon me ? This is the menu {disfmarker} yes , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "F f okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Scroll up or scroll down the channels .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right , very good . Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay and now I'm supposed to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , I have one question",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh will there be anything written on the buttons , like that people know , or they have to learn that from a piece of paper which button does what ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons will have symbols .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah . Yeah , definitely .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Will have symbols so that that {disfmarker} that the user really knows you know and doesn't have to first learn it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , which can be easily recognised .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Good point because we need the symbols 'cause we're going into an international market we can't have anything that's language dependent .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah of course , and also {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But anyway it would ha i i i it has to have some kind of of symbols , text or something so that people kn",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we can {disfmarker} Text .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Symbols on it . Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Text that we can have on the case itself ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we can {disfmarker} it will be printed on the case and symbols as well as the buttons . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah just wanted make sure of that mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker} and one more feature is we we have a holder for this remote which is an oyster shape .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm , 'kay , mm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A shell shape .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For the snail , yeah , mm-hmm ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Right , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So it is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} we have the snail shell .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , snail shell .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "He goes right back into his shell .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah {disfmarker} shell .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well you know I think we could do something really funny with this too because the snail is known to be slow",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and we could have some sort of little comic effect on our marketing about how this is a rapid snail or something like that",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Y Yes {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , of course , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you know that would , that would really work .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now what , what are our special features for the marketing ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think voice recognition is our big selling point",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then , and then the other thing would basically be sh shape or practicality of use .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical . I think we have to , we have to dwell on on on the appearance .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Colours . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We're really gonna have the be the",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Cutest .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "cutest remote control on the block .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I think we have to play with the image , play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think those are the two things to push . The look and the voice recognition . They're gonna be our two selling points .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , now uh having said that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm supposed to make a little presentation , aren't I ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now we're gonna talk about financing . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah , but in my instructions I think it said I was supposed to go to the board and do something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , there is a production evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is that you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's me .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But that's after the financing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "See ? Fi see ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sorry , sorry . Mm-mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um . {vocalsound} Okay , we had looks and voice recognition . Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is . Okay uh energy source we say that's battery , right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , now . So we {disfmarker} I guess we use one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What ? T cell or chart you are trying to change is protected . Well , that's nice . She told me I could just ch change it here and then it would {disfmarker} It doesn't work . Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can you just fill it in in the yellow boxes ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay yeah , okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "let's see . Okay , one , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh go away . Um kinetic source so that's {disfmarker} in the energy source that's all we need .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh electronics , simple chip on print ? Is that's what we're using ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "One of those ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Come on . Okay , one . Uh regular chip on print . No . That's all we need , the one",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} case , uncurved flat , single curved , double curved .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Single curve ? Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I guess it's double curved .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Double curved ? One of those ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Case materi s supplements . Plastic we said , right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Plastic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh wood , rubber ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Rubber , because we're gonna have the soft buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh but , yes but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think uh that is uh f for rubbers that is uh {disfmarker} yeah case material .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's just for the case material ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is this for the case ? Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so special colours though , we having that ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay , the mm-hmm , mm' kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then we have to interface push buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Scroll wheel , no . Integrated scroll wheel , L_C_ display ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause we didn't put the clock in it after all , right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , button supplement special colour ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Speci Yes",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Special form ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes d we do have special form .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And special material , rubber , wood , yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} Total seven point six whatever that means .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I think that's the price .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's the price .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One two three four five six seven eight nine",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it {disfmarker} is it just {disfmarker} n",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Eight , eight point two . That's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nine points ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "hmm ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "okay , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Eight point two , right ? So , we {disfmarker} looks like we are well within budget .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . I guess I should save this I suppose , huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oops . Uh-huh huh huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "On the desktop .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I just tried that . My documents , computer .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "AMI .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "My compu Ah oh here it is , yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "AMI should for",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , fine . Save . Okay good , so that's the good news . We gonna be popular .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um . So that uh {disfmarker} I think financing was pretty simple .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now we would like to have a presentation by the marketing expert on production evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I'll take my file down so you can bring it up . 'Kay should be able to get it now . 'Kay , why don't you move just to the next slide right away .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You wanna go to the next slide ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah right away .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well uh obviously my method for uh s m the marketing of this thing is first to ask the big question , will it sell ? And I think we should show this prototype to people from various age and socio-economic groups and see about any fine tuning that {disfmarker} maybe little things we haven't thought of .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We can't accept every suggestion of course , but maybe we just need to get a few .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And show the the prototype to consumer research groups , we don't s want somebody to suddenly come to us and tell us that this button is toxic and you know some child will swallow it and then we won't sell any .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we have to get some input from those people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then after that we just have to go with our best intuition and you know we like it , we think it's good , we're gonna get behind it and sell it . Um , next slide please . Okay , now the things that I was thinking and th my wish list has really been realised in this prototype . I wanted the shape to be biomorphic , I didn't want anything with angles and all square , I wanted it to be comfy and roundy so we we've got that . The size is small , the colour's bright and warm which is what we wanted . We wanted the feel to be as soft as possible , we'll have the soft buttons",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and the way this is shaped , even though it's gonna be hard plastic , it feels good in your hand so that's nice . And functionality I put last on my list because people aren't going to use it before they buy it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So paradoxically the other features , in other words , the look , the feel um and the shape , that's what people are gonna get in the store .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Fee selling .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "They don't have a television in the store , they can't play with it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um so they'll be our main selling points . So um {vocalsound} th those have been fulfilled by your prototype and go ahead to the next slide please . Okay , so um the shape um I think is a {disfmarker} a one . That's really , really excellent shape . The size is small um and th these points are in the importance for the , for the marketing , these aren't i in how I feel . I think that it's {disfmarker} I think that it's plenty small enough to sell but I think we're sort of right {disfmarker} the scale is one to seven . I think we're sort of right in the middle as far as c other competitors .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And our colour I think is great . The colours are bright and warm and we really do great job there . And given um the constraints that we had I think we got it as soft as possible . And then functionality um I think you did a really good job on functionality , obviously we could have ad added different functions but then we'd disturb something else so I would say that we got to a five out of seven on on functionality .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I think that basically we've got a great product and we can get off and running with it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um I just realised one thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "In the financing there was no room for our voice recogniser .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh I don't know how we can evaluate that or how we can include that , too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , um we had what , eight eight euros twenty as our cost ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Eight , eight twenty , yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Eight twenty so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And so we've got {disfmarker} we've still got four euros to go {disfmarker} to spend .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We have um four euros , yeah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean maximum we have another four point three euros I mean {vocalsound} four thirty .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Well um that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I mean we have no way of presenting that to management as you know as a f finished , as a finished product and saying okay with the voice recogniser that costs so much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So um we just have to beware of that . I mean and know whether the four thirty will really cover that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well as we know in today's technic technological world you can do just about anything at any price , the the the problem is quality .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we're just gonna have to settle for whatever quality that will buy us .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And um it may not be the greatest quality but it may sell anyway .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , still .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} As we've seen with so many of these kinds of products . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry to interrupt then but I just uh recog I just remembered that there was no {disfmarker} that that was not um included uh {disfmarker} that there was no room for any special features , okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Included , yeah . Hmm ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "hmm",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So to beware of that . You wanna go to this next slide , marketing expert ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , well I isn't this my last slide ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I dunno .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes it is . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead . I think that was my last slide , yeah . Um . Mm okay . And I'm supposed to present this scale on the whiteboard . Um and we're supposed to talk about those things as a team now , so if you put my last slide back up there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry I've um forgot to do that , um .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Why ? Wh why you need that up ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ? Well because I can't remember what I put on there . {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Now I'm supposed to see how long my leash is here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think you can make it there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm 'kay . You ready . So now we're all supposed to say what we think . Um okay so on shape I gave it a one . Wait what would you ra uh one being good and seven being the worst .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Worse , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um what do you think the shape is ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "One .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "One , okay , and Be Betsy ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes I think uh shape is one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , even my {disfmarker} yeah , shape is one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , uh-huh one , okay . And how about on size ? On size {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You {disfmarker} you gave it a four .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I gave it a four , yeah , I feel it's just average .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , I dunno . I think I would give it at least a two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "One .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , even I think it is one . It's quite small .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you're the designer , of course you wanna give it a one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um and then how about {disfmarker} how we doing on colour ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Colour uh I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Colour , I gave it a one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "One .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I really like all those nice bright , warm colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} I like the colours . One .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One . Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "One .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "One , one , one , okay . And how about the feel ? Taking into um consideration texture and comfort in the hand .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I think I would give it a two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I gave it a three , two ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'll give three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah ? Three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe two ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Two , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the next is functionality where I I admit I was a little hard on our team here , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well it's also you can't really try it out uh the other things you have have more {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} are more tangible so from that point of view",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but um {disfmarker} I'll give it a three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh three , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Three ? Okay . Well , um . It looks like we've got got ourselves a pretty good product . Um the functionality's the only place where maybe we have to think about m m maybe , heaven forbid , having another meeting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But um otherwise I think we're {disfmarker} we're ready to go to {disfmarker} go with this product . Anybody else have any other comments or any other things that we feel we should evaluate ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh . Here is what we looking at uh satisfaction on for example room for creativity . Um . Is there more room for creativity or are we absolutely happy ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We can always improve , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we can {disfmarker} yeah , include some more buttons and uh um",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , features .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah features . We can make the buttons {disfmarker} few buttons smaller . Uh I think they are quite big , so I think {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean we can just have small buttons and more buttons in that case . If we want to have more features than that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Well then again if we're gonna um {vocalsound} do the speech recognition thing we're gon there gonna be some buttons that are gonna have to be added for that for the recording of the the speech .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , definitely .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Voices .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that that's where we're gonna have to do {disfmarker} maybe we can eliminate one of the mute buttons , instead of having two mute buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , definitely , yeah , two mu mute buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And um then maybe we can do something with the um the volume control . Maybe we can put that all on one button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um and a couple of other th maybe comp uh consolidate some of the usage an and see what we can do with that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Y um al always bearing in mind that right now we are of course well within the budget",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And maybe {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and that we still you know we probably can't , with this particular item , we probably can't just uh add a whole lot of more things .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh um we need uh {disfmarker} you know we need to leave space money-wise for the voice recogniser .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So th the question really is how do we feel with the project process ? Uh , um are we happy with the creativity that has passed here or we're not happy with the new product we created or that was created ? Uh I think {disfmarker} personally I think uh I'm pretty happy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm pretty happy with it too , yeah um ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um an",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Even I'm happy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's something I think I can market . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then the next question is are we happy with the leadership of this project ? Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think you've done a good job , Miss leader . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes you've done a good job .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , definitely . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I think team work I think was very very good , I think we really {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I d I do too I think we worked well together as a team , yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh I think we {disfmarker} are we happy with the means we used ? We used whiteboard , we didn't use digital p well digital pens I guess are these things .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah maybe we could've used the whiteboard a little bit more , yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Whiteboard more , yes , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , probably .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we didn't use that enough .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , we could . Uh , it's maybe not in the best position in the room um you know like sometimes it's positioned so that it's much better visible for everybody and I think from that point of view we sort of ignored it a little bit .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And we used the slide because it was better positioned .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes , I think so , I think absolutely ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm I think that's true mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and fortunately we all had slides presentation which made it a little easier .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um did we new {disfmarker} did we find new ideas ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we did .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , many .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we were we were very good , yeah , mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we we did , uh in more than one respect and uh so I think we did very well here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Are the costs within budget ? Yes , yes . Uh is the project evaluated ? Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um then celebration . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Celebration .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Cel celebration {vocalsound} yes , yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Today we have apple juice and after we sell m million of 'em we have champagne . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I {disfmarker} I thank you all very much . Um , I think this was very good and um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we did come up with a new product that's uh feasible . Feasible from the production point of view and feasible from a marketing point of view .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Watch I I have my cord behind you here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I always get it on here , but getting it off is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do we {disfmarker} do we have some time left ? Uh {disfmarker} you have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "They say it's forty minutes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah yes we have time later",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we we were told we could end the final meeting at any time , whenever we felt we were finished .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but we don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It'll take me the rest of the time to get my microphone out from my necklace . {vocalsound} Oh , there we go .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
TS3003a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"18",
"184"
]
],
"topic": "Introduction to scope and agenda of the project and brief team building"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"185",
"190"
]
],
"topic": "Financial aims and target markets of the new remote control project"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"204",
"237"
]
],
"topic": "Remote control use cases"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"238",
"267"
]
],
"topic": "Brainstorming remote control features other than the multipurpose function"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The whole meeting was the initial meeting of a new remote control project. Firstly, Project Manager introduced the scope and agenda of the project, and the team got acquainted with each other and technical devices. Then Project Manager made clear that remote control would be priced at 25 Euros and a production cost of 12.5 Euros, in order to achieve a profit aim of 50 million Euros. After an accident, Marketing suggested that remote control should be made multipurpose and the consensus was reached on this point. Finally, the group brainstormed some other functions for the remote control despite a potential increase in production cost.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager proposed that apart from ordinary remote controls, innovative use cases could be explored. Then Marketing suggested that a multipurpose remote control should be made to operate different devices including TV, video recorder, DVD player, etc.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about remote control use cases?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"204",
"237"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager confirmed the feasibility of Marketing's idea of the multipurpose remote control, and later he also brought up infra-red as an effective medium, over which cost-related doubt was expressed by himself, though.",
"query": "What did Project Manager think of the feasibility of the multipurpose remote control mentioned by Marketing?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"217",
"234"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Infra-red was mentioned by Project Manager along with the multipurpose function. Marketing proposed shock proof. User Interface put forward waterproof. And then Marketing went on to offer battery status display as an optional choice, which he had no idea was a great production cost driver or just a tiny LED.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about functions for the remote control other than the multipurpose function?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"235",
"267"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When Project Manager proposed the application of infra-red, he himself admitted the risk of exceeding target cost. The same concern over battery status display was expressed by Marketing. Hence, he agreed to find out a specific cost before decision-making, with Marketing implying that he wanted it to be applied if possible.",
"query": "What attitude did Project Manager hold towards potential cost pressure with regard to infra-red?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"235",
"261"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When Marketing mentioned the application battery status display, he added that it could possibly drag up the production cost and that further research would be carried out before decision-making. But still, he implied that he wanted it to be applied if possible.",
"query": "What did Marketing think of potential cost pressure incurred by the application of battery status display?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"252",
"261"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager announced that the remote control would be priced at 25 Euros, produced at a maximum cost of 12.5 Euros to achieve a profit aim of 50 million euros. And Project Manager went on to emphasize that the target market would be international, covering different kinds of users, cultures, and trends. No dissent was raised by other team members.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about financial aims and target markets of the new remote control project.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"185",
"190"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "So uh good morning .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Morning .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Morning .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I see you all find your places .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Morning .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is everybody sitting on the right place ? Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I guess so . So {disfmarker} Let's see . First I will introduce myself . I don't know if uh {disfmarker} if everybody knows me , so I'm Bart ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "My name's Frank .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "hello . Hello .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Bart . Hello . Hello . Bart .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Welcome .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh let's see . Uh let's start off um with a little presentation . Uh Now first I'll tell you a little bit about the setting . You can see there are a few cameras here . They'll record uh our actions and you'll have wires and microphones that will record your voice . Uh there are also some microphones there but th um you don't have to pay a lot of attention on those , because it will uh disappear when you don't attend to it . So is there a project documents folder ? There are some notes in it already I see , some documents . Uh I'll start with the presentation kick off . Is being modified by the administrator . Uh okay {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Hmm , that's interesting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's do it read only . Well I don't know if you've noticed , but uh we're working for Real Reaction . Uh it's a company in uh electronics . We put fashion in electronics , uh we make it work , uh we put a lot of effort in design and in the product itself . I'm Bart {gap} the project manager so I'll direct you through the project . This is our agenda . {vocalsound} Uh we have our opening acquaintance , tool training , project plan description closing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe I can sit down , then I can take some notes or {disfmarker} Let's see . Maybe you can take the minutes once in a while .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I dunno it's not a lot of work , but just uh if you hear something uh you can write down , just write it down . Uh as you can see uh it's the opening , aquaintance tool training . Aquaintance is a point we've done a bit . Um have you all seen the corporate website already ? Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Visit it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Have you seen any flaws in it ? I think I found one . {vocalsound} No ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Can't say I paid much attention to it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I can see if it works this way . No , it doesn't work here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay no problem . But um on the corporate information side there's a th uh {disfmarker} there was Real Remote instead of Real Reaction .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Real Remote is not really the company we're {disfmarker} we are , but it's just a little {gap} fault .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um okay , what are we going to do ? {vocalsound} Uh our project aim is as you can see a new remote control . It has to be original , trendy , and user friendly . So these are uh the points why uh we also hired you . {vocalsound} We've got the Marketing Expert for uh the trendy and user friendly look .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And Industrial Designer uh there's also user friendly and a bit original . {vocalsound} And we've got our User Interface Designer .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "He's also uh {disfmarker} That's about the new remote control . Uh project method um is uh there are three phases we are going through . First is functional des uh design , individual work , meetings . After the functional design , then the conceptual design and the detailed design . {vocalsound} I had some role indications on here . But I think you know it already by yourself . The Industrial Designer is going to work on the working design , uh components design and a bit of the look and feel design . Uh the User Interface Designer is going to do the technical function design , user interface concept and user interface design . {vocalsound} And the marketing expert is doing a little bit of user requirement specification , trend watching and project {disfmarker} uh product ev evaluation . So that's a bit what you're going to do . But that will be all worked out in uh other meetings .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then we've got our first tool training . {vocalsound} We are going to work with a lot of high-tech tools here , so it's ab it's handy if we have a little bit of training first . As you can see we've got the smart boards here and here in the white board . Um in the white board here there's a little tool bar on this side . Here are some functions . You can save . N uh these functions we don't have anything to do with , only undo , you can undo a little uh piece of drawing . A blank new document for each person . Uh select a pen , eraser . Capture we don't have to do anything with . Uh then we've got our pen . This pen . It's really funny because you can draw with it on this page um in the {disfmarker} think it is form of .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can also select the current colour and the line width . But then first you have to select the pen function .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But we're going to work with it in a minute . So okay . Uh that's very simple and it's easy to uh draw your findings and drawings on there . {vocalsound} Uh then a short thing about documents . We've got our shared folder , project {gap} project {disfmarker} what was it ? Project documents {gap} I think . But all you will found that already because there are a lot of documents in it already , so it will be okay . And these are available on the smart boards as well , so if you have a document you wanna show , just open it from the folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Here is a simple tool bar . It's what I just said , it's save , print , move back or forward one page . You can switch between the different drawings . And then we're going to try out the white board .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So as you can see we g all {vocalsound} going to draw a animal . {vocalsound} Just to uh uh just to get a bit familiar with it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mouse wasn't running away . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That was interesting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is everybody {disfmarker} is anybody playing with the mouse ? No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Innocent .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We're going to uh draw animal . {vocalsound} And uh just sum up a few of its favourite characteristics .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um the only thing we have to uh look after is that we use different colours , and different line width .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh there's {disfmarker} I can start from now . I will . You can use this pen by holding it like a like a little child . Because if you hold it like this , the sensors will get blocked and then the drawing won't get good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Another thing is you have to be uh a bit slow . 'Cause if you're going to draw like really fast then um the pen won't hold up . So we choose form of current colour uh I think grey is appropriate . Then the line width . I think seven will be nice . Now you'll see my drawing capabilities .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "These are not very much , but uh {disfmarker} Uh , see you have to do it real slow . {vocalsound} Oh {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah I was trying to draw a dolphin ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but I think his nose has to be a little bit {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But it's close .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm thinking about a swordfish .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So what {disfmarker} yeah it's {disfmarker} this is bit of the swordfish .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , he hasn't got an eye .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Woah . {vocalsound} Now we've got another function . We've got the eraser .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And then you can undo this easily .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Meat .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah it's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I've got to write down a few of its characteristics . Uh is {disfmarker} They've got no text tool , no . Uh . {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is typically a undo action , I think . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Pen . Maybe you have to hold it a bit upside-down . I think that's it because if you wan ar are going to do it like this then it will be a stripe . But I don't know , I'm just trying . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} This is not my work ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe you have to use {disfmarker} Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh . I think it's a {disfmarker} it wants to draw a {disfmarker} another animal ? I don't know . It lives for the fun . So {disfmarker} It's my characteristic uh characteristic about the dolphin . It lives for the fun . So now I'm gonna hand over the pen on the new blank sheet to you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . Okay . Gonna use a different line width . And I'm gonna draw in black . There . 'Kay , I'm not much of an artist , but here we go .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it's easier to draw the smaller line width , I think . Because this is going a lot better than uh I did .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A sheep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This is my um {disfmarker} Hmm . Sheep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's nice . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With of course",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "little blue dot they always get sprayed on their butts .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a real dead sheep ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "There .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah . {vocalsound} For recognition ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , I see . {vocalsound} Um maybe you can also write your name somewhere .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "On just a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "They are {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Come on . You have to go really slow when you're writing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "They're brilliant animal animals .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And that's just a little me thingy . So . Guess I'll pass the pen to our User Interface Designer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nice .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Um I'm just gonna draw its uh head , but mm {disfmarker} Let's see . Mm . Uh . {gap} Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sweet . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Interesting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You know what that is ? Or who ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Garfield .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A rabbit ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Garfield . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just a {disfmarker} Mm . Guess . So uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah . That's enough . {vocalsound} Um , you say a blank ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , just a blank sheet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I was gonna draw a cat too , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'll just try something else .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Something different than Garfield .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mine is a bit more skinny . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's pretty skinny cat . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the most interesting tail .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is your cat , or did you find him on the street ? {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , it's supposed to be a cat . I like cats because uh they are uh independent .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The pen . So .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . That's pretty clear . So everybody knows how to work with the white board now ? So if you have any ideas or if you wanna draw anything on the white board , just ask",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The pen . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and go ahead . It's pretty uh easy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} 'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We're being haunted .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "haunted white board . {vocalsound} So we've got the tool uh introduction . We move along to the project finance .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um as you can see , we um for our remote control , a selling price is uh twenty five Euros . Our selling price . Uh our profit aim is fifty million Euros . Uh that's the least we have to get from our remote controls , so we have to work together to reach our aims . Uh we can do it international , so we have to focus on different kind of users , different kind of cultures , and different kind of trends as well . Um but that's all in the later stadium . Our production cost um can be maximal twelve and a half Euros , so that's also a point we have to keep in mind , that we won't make remote controls with small televisions inside , and stuff like that . It won't work . So just try to remember these points . Selling price twenty five , profit aims fifty million um , but more important is the int international market we're trying to focus on . And production cost uh maximal twelve and a half Euros . So that's leads us to our little discussion . We've got about five or ten minutes left for discussion . So I'm gonna sit down , I think . It's easier .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you got a message .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I've got a message . Five minutes . Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Five minutes , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that's uh good timing . {vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So just on a side note , why is it my laptop is only giving me a black screen ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe you have to say the magic word . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Does it do anything ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe you have to just clap it down ? Mm back up again . No slide show . Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's off now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's off . Now you have to put it back o Oh yeah . You'll be okay , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , it was on , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well it's those laptops . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah , there we are .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nice . Okay . {vocalsound} But so mm does everybody has um experiences with uh remote controls , and I mean not the ordinary mote controls , but also a little bit different ones ? Like you can use for other ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Oh really ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , me neither .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , we have a kind of broad T_V_ at home , and a D_V_D_ player , so we got like a lot of remote controls , one for the T_V_ , one for the video recorder , one for the D_V_D_ player .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I think it's {disfmarker} it would be best to just make one remote control that can operate them all .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Yeah",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I've I've got one at home . And you can uh program I think eight different devices in it , and you can use it for your television , anything else .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And it also operates on infra-red , so you have to got the little device inside your room , and then you can operate it from the third or th or second floor .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that's pretty handy when you have a video recorder or D_V_D_ player downstairs and you've got a link to your T_V_ on the second floor . So that's a pretty handy um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "really .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Oh . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "thing . {vocalsound} Um but only the I think that if you can put different kind of devices in one remote control , it makes it a lot easier as well . It's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's good to remember .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I think you can take minutes again .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's nice , I think . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Since it's your job .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we've {disfmarker} we want different functions",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh and we can maybe see if we can do something with the infra-red . But I don't know if that will exceed the production costs . So that uh that's something we have to find out , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But that would be really good if we could do that . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And other functions for a remote control ? Maybe we can make it uh uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um . Think it has to be shock proof",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sure , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'cause",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Shock proof .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "my remote control tends to fall a lot .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Waterproof , or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sure .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , you never no know uh ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I w I mean uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Waterproof . Okay . So these are our um a few things we can think of . Um I will put the minutes from this meeting uh in our project folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , one other little thing . Thought it might be handy to put a battery status display on it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you can see",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "battery stays .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "how much is left in the battery . But they'll also really drag up the production costs , so think we'll have to see about that too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But maybe just a little LED , I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's an idea as well . Other ideas ? Quick ideas .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nope .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They were all mentioned ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Any questions about this uh presentation ? Kick off presentation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um . Nope , don't think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , then I'll put the minutes from this meeting in the project folder , and then we can all work . Finish meeting now . {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And we can all work uh on our own projects . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Aye sir .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay then I'll meet you in about a half an hour , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Half an hour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So good luck . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3003b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"20",
"33"
]
],
"topic": "Marketing's presentation about user requirements"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"34",
"86"
]
],
"topic": "User Interface's presentation about technical function design followed by a brief discussion"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"87",
"98"
]
],
"topic": "Industrial Designer's presentation about working design"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"99",
"159"
]
],
"topic": "Project Manager's amendments to project requirements and discussion focused on design"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"160",
"362"
]
],
"topic": "Group discussion about functionality with the elderly as target customers"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The whole meeting was focused on the functional design of the new remote control project. First of all, Marketing, User Interface, and Industrial Designer each gave a presentation about user requirements, technical function design, and working design respectively. Then, Project Manager announced some amendments to project requirements, which automatically rejected some of the previous assumptions and aroused further discussion about design and functionality with people above 40 as target customers.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager announced that the remote control ought to be only suitable for TV, and that teletext as an outmoded function should be skipped, while internet access becomes an optional function. Meanwhile, target customers are specified as 40 plus. However, Project Manager's requirements of no teletext and design simplification were effectively challenged and rebutted by Marketing. As a result, the focus on the project was changed from design to functionality.",
"query": "Summarize the amendments to project requirements and the following discussion.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"99",
"159"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing was strongly against the ''no teletext but internet'' requirement, because he thought there was little chance that customers over 40 would use TVs with internet access in the near future. And he added that teletext was no doubt a key feature for the remote control, especially for the elder generation, and hence should not be ruled out anyway. Consequently, the group agreed to keep teletext and further negotiate with the board.",
"query": "What attitude did Marketing hold towards the ''no teletext but internet'' requirement when commenting on new project requirements and why?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"113",
"131"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing considered fancy design to be insignificant, as he believed that unlike the younger generation, people of 40 plus were not that particular about appearance and would care more about its functionality instead. Marketing's opinion was subsequently agreed by other team members.",
"query": "Why did Marketing disagree with the fancy design requirement proposed by Project Manager?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"132",
"159"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Firstly, after a short debate, the group reached a consensus that basic layout would be enough for the button design, on which too much emphasis would be unnecessary for the elder generation. Then, the group agreed to implement a docking station as an extra with a positioning function. Also, as opposed to touchscreen or LCD screen, an ordinary small screen and default materials were applauded. Finally, Project Manager proposed to specify the target group as people above 60, which could improve product image as Marketing said.",
"query": "Summarize the group discussion about functionality with the elderly as target customers.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"160",
"362"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Though Project Manager brought up scroll button and joystick as possible options, Industrial rejected that idea by arguing that the elderly were not accustomed to using them, therefore basic layout would be sufficient. Then Marketing further pointed out that there was not so much to gain in the competition of less buttons, as very few buttons would be needed for a TV remote anyway. Project Manager accepted those ideas.",
"query": "What was the decision of the discussion about button design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"213",
"248"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing's research about user requirements showed that 50% of the people tended to find their remote controls lost. Therefore, the docking station as an extra would help users find its position. To achieve this the audio sign would be implemented. When users pressed a button, the phone on the remote control went ringing and indicated its position.",
"query": "Why was the docking station taken into consideration and how was its function achieved?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"249",
"287"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay . Everybody found his place again ? Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's nice . Okay so this is our second meeting . And uh still failing ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh now we're going um into the functional design . Um important thing of this phase is that we're going to uh try to get an agreement about the user requirements , technical function design , and the working design . So that we can move onto the second uh phase . But first this phase . Um first an announcement . There's a little adaptation in the air conditioning system . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} There's our {vocalsound} ghost mouse again . That that means that you can have a little trouble with , little trouble with the air conditioning , that's because of this uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's in wing C_ and E_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it should be over in a in a while , couple of days . But it's going to be cold anyway , so {vocalsound} I don't think you're gonna need it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then our agenda . Now first the opening . Uh this time I will take the minutes . Uh you're going to have a presentation . All of you . Um and we've got forty minutes for the whole uh prese for the whole uh presentations . So uh I suggest we take about seven minutes per presentation , and then we can have a little discussion about the new project requirements uh which have been sent to me . And then the decision on the control functions uh which we wanna include and those which we don't wanna include . So we've got forty minutes for all of it . So I suggest um let's start with the first presentation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um who wants to be first ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Think I'll go first .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just maybe it's easier if you um {disfmarker} Yeah I think you will tell {gap} your presentation as well . Just which function you have and what you're gonna talk about . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . My name is Freek Van Ponnen . I'm the Market Expert . But you already knew that . Um I've done some research . We have we uh have been doing research in a usability lab where we observed um users operating remote controls . Uh we let them fill out a questionnaire . We had one hundred of these uh test subjects . Uh in addition we did some market research . Uh see what the market consists of . What ages are involved . Well these are three quite astonishing results , I thought . Um remotes are being considered ugly . F uh seventy five percent of the um people questioned uh indicated that they thought their remote were was ugly . Um and an additional eighty percent indicated that they would spend more money on a fancy-looking remote control . So {disfmarker} Um in addition remotes were not very functional . Fifty percent of the people indicated they only loo used about ten percent of the buttons on a remote control . And fifty percent of the people indicated that their remote tended to get lost in their room . So",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "some things . Then we did some research to the most relevant functions . Channel selection and volume selection um both got a ten on a scale of one to ten for relevancy . The power button got a nine . And teletext got a six and a half . So these are the most most uh important functions on a remote control . Then there are some one-time use function . That's what I like to call them . That uh audio settings , video settings , and channel settings buttons . Which are not really used very frequently , but are still considered to be of some importance . Um channel selection was also indicated to be used very frequently . One hundred and sixty eight times per hour . Then these are the {disfmarker} This is the market . Um sixty percent of the market consists of users between the ages sixteen and forty f six . Um {disfmarker} Main characteristic of this group is that they're very critical on the remote control . Um they like to use new f new functions . But they also are very critical . They won't spend their money very easily . So {disfmarker} Um the users of forty six to sixty five years cons The make up forty percent of the market . They are not really very interested in features . But they do tend to spend their money a lot easier . What I think this indicates for our um design . I think we should make a remote for the future . And this means we would um have to focus on the age ages sixteen to forty five . Uh this also makes up most the biggest part of the market , so that will also be where our main profit would be gettable . Um this would mean we would have to make a fancy design . Um {disfmarker} The results also indicated that um about one quarter of the people questioned thought that the remote control caused R_S_ R_S_I_ . Um this is certainly something to take into account . And thirty four percent thought that it was hard to learn a n how to operate a new control , remote control . So these are two factors that I think should be included in the design . Besides of course that the remote must look very nice . And the functionality {disfmarker} As a lot of people indicated , they only use about ten percent of the buttons , I think we should make very few buttons . Uh this will also be uh beneficial to the design of the remote . Uh I think the most frequently used buttons should be emphasised . Especially the channel selection and audio uh selection buttons . 'Cause they're used most and so they should be robust . They shouldn't break down easily . Um {disfmarker} Then as mo as a lot of people indicated that their um remote got lost in the room , it might be and I say might be because it would um certainly boost the uh production costs a lot . But it might be a good idea to make a docking station . And this would , could get a button in it which would send a signal to the remote which would then beep . So you'd know where it is in the room . And in addition to this it could um recharge the batteries in the remote if you put it in . Then um a surprisingly great deal of people w indicated that um an L_C_D_ screen in the remote control would be preferred . This was um mostly people in the age of sixteen to twenty five . But up till forty five it remains feasible . This would also greatly increase the production costs but I think these are just some small factors we could consider .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That would be all .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . So anybody have um any questions until now ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Any questions ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "About functional requirements ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that's clear . {gap} Now to the second .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay . Um I've been looking at uh the user interface of it . Um f for the techno f functions uh of of it . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah you can take your time .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We've got uh plenty of time ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you should go to the top thingy . Slide show .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . There it is . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um yeah . I think uh we uh must use the general functions uh of the uh remote control . Uh uh I've do I've uh done a little uh research on the internet and {gap} not much information about it , {gap} {disfmarker} Um about uh interface but uh {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Yeah I I've been thinking about a simple manner uh to put a lot of functions uh uh in one um in one uh remote control . Uh so uh you've got a lot of devi uh devices like uh D_V_D_ uh uh television , uh stereo . So um {disfmarker} But uh it must be uh user-friendly . So um uh you c you can't put a a lot of uh functions uh in one uh {disfmarker} Yeah . Uh uh uh {disfmarker} Yeah . In one um remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "One remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But um {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um yeah . Got uh many functions in one uh remote control , um but um yeah you can see , this is uh quite simple uh remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um few uh buttons but uh {disfmarker} This uh re uh remote control got a a lot of uh buttons . Um uh people uh don't like it , uh so um {disfmarker} Well what uh I was uh thinking about was um uh keep the general functions uh like they are . So uh like uh the on-off uh button . Uh keep it uh yeah l like a red button . Uh everybody everybody knows it so uh uh you don't have to change that . Um {disfmarker} My personal uh preferences um . Use a display for uh specific uh functions of the different uh device . So um {disfmarker} Wh what I was th uh thinking about was um you've got um {disfmarker} Uh this the remote control uh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and uh you got here the general functions , uh like uh the on-off button uh sound uh {vocalsound} I dunno um {disfmarker} And um here you've got a s kind of a display . It's a touchscreen . So um yeah you got a general f uh f the functions of the device uh for a D_V_D_ player or uh so um the pl yeah um f for uh playing uh reverse uh {gap} . And um you got here uh real buttons for uh selecting uh a device . So um this button is for a D_V_D_ or {vocalsound} {disfmarker} So um for every um device you've got a uh a f a b a part uh display of a part buttons . So uh you you never got uh all the buttons uh on w one device .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh that's uh my uh idea about it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um yeah and {disfmarker} Uh let's see . Uh yeah . So a touchscreen . Uh and um th the buttons uh the real buttons uh we have to use um . We better c um uh use uh quite uh large buttons uh for um yeah . Everybody uh have to use it so {disfmarker} Uh ol even even old people um young people . So uh we must keep uh buttons uh quite s uh simple and quite large . So uh {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh yeah . That was uh my uh part of it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Anybody has questions about the technical functions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think if we are gonna use a touchscreen uh we're gonna go way above the twelve and a half Euros .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "N I I don't think so . Uh you got uh quite a cheap uh touchscreen . S um it's uh not uh in colour or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Touchscreen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's just uh um one colo Uh yeah . Uh I seen uh w uh something on the internet uh not today but uh a few uh weeks ago . Uh you got uh yeah quite an uh a kind of uh touchscreen um and it's uh {vocalsound} for uh twenty uh Euros or uh less uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's possible .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . That's nice . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well it would certainly make a fancy design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But the {disfmarker} It wouldn't be very robust .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's very fragile and you can get scratches on it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That is true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's true .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe we can first um listen to your presentation ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We would have to look into that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} And then we {gap} have a little discussion about the requirements and uh design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's {gap} . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it's going to {disfmarker} Uh it's not too much . Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay I've got a presentation about the working design . Um first about how it works . It's really simple of course . Everybody knows how a remote works . The user presses a button . The remote determines what button it is , uses the infrared to send a signal to the T_V_ . The T_V_ switches to the frequency , or what function it is . So we've got um the the plate . It gots conductive disks for every button . When the user presses a button , a signal got sent , goes to the LED and transmits tranmi transmits its to the T_V_ . It's a very simple device , technically speaking . So this is a schematic overview . You've got the buttons . The power source . And uh when a button gets pressed , its goes to the chip . The chip uh controls the infrared bulb and perf perhaps a normal bulb . When you press a button you can actually see your pressed button . Well um I think we should use default materials , simple plastics . Keep the inner workings simple , so it's robust . Uh I think we should focus on aesthetics , the design and the user interface , because if you're going to use high-tech materials the price is going to go sky-high . And uh you only have to design a remote once , and if you use high-tech materials it come back in every product . So it's , in my idea , it's uh it's gonna be smart to invest in di in design and not in uh in the product itself . That's it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Thank you . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Okay now I hope everybody has a little bit more insight in the functions we all have and what we are doing right now . Um I'm the Project Manager so I'm here to mess things up and uh tell you some new uh requirements .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um that's , we've uh got to design a um remote which is only suitable for T_V_ . Um that's because {vocalsound} uh it will be too complex",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and the time to market will be too big , if we wanna have it uh for more functions . So it has to be simple .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh another point is we have to skip the teletext , because in the world of uh upcoming internet uh we think teletext is going to be uh a thing of the past . And uh it's a function we don't need in our remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um internet is also mentioned {gap} in a function we can use . Uh maybe also on televisions it will be available as well . Another one is uh the customer is uh forty plus . Uh that's the the market we have to to to target , because we are going to develop a new product which is specially designed for the younger customers . Um this is uh a bit pity for the Marketing uh Expert .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Because he was uh aiming on the the younger persons . So we have to find a market which is above forty plus uh but which will suit our uh remote control , and the other way round . And we have to be very uh attent in uh putting the corporate image uh in our product . So it has to be visible in our design , in the way our device works . And uh we have to be uh very clear on this point as well . So I suggest let's have a discussion on the control functions . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So is there any discussion possible about the new product requirement ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh we can see if we can find a way uh between the functions we wanna use and the market we wanna reach with our product . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah 'cause you're you're saying that teletext is gonna be an old feature and it's not gonna be used anymore anyway pretty soon . And new T_V_s will have internet access on them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I think if you're targeting people of forty plus , the chance that they will have a T_V_ with internet access within the next like twenty years is very slim .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "In addition people indicated that teletext simply was an important feature for the remote control . So I think it's pretty dumb to put no teletext feature on it . I'm pretty much against it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Against the no teletext ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Besides that , I think the market for forty plus is like pretty small . But I mean if I s if I see this , it's {disfmarker} I think we're just gonna go for another",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's it is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} forty {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Standard remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "pretty",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No I think we can",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and not innovative",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we can do a lot with the design and the simple buttons",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "which were also mentioned . Uh if we put a lot of effort in those , we can make a remote control with uh just two or three buttons . Or just a remote which is suitable for the market we wanna reach because it is forty percent of the market .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And um if you look in Holland at the whole generation of forty plus , fifty plus , it it's the the biggest share of the of the whole population now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes but it's not the biggest part of the market .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And besides that , they're not very critical so {disfmarker} I mean they don't really care what the remote control is like . They'll just pretty much take the first thing they see and which looks acceptable .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But don't you think that if we make a remote which is uh typically made for this market , that people think {gap} {disfmarker} the people think that's the the device I've looked for although I didn't realise it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So let's try it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . I think that would be the case in the sixteen to forty five age category . because they are critical and they they want to have a fancy remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "People of forty plus , I mean they want it to work , but as soo as soon as it works it's okay with them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think that if we're {disfmarker} If we put our marketing right um we can sell this just like um {disfmarker} I don't know if you've heard about it in the news , the the elderly mobile phone ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's a big success .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah if we if we make a remote control just l with that idea in mind , we could make tons of money , I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Very big success .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I haven't heard of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh . I think so as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We don't have to focus on on on the on the design then but on functionality . We just change our focus on the project , and I think we can uh we can sell this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh I simply think um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "uh that the new products we are gonna make , uh spef specifically design , are designed for uh younger people , uh so maybe we can focus ourself on the elderly people . And I think we have to um see what requirements we need for those um remote controls . {vocalsound} 'Cause what you told is the channel selection is important . Volume selection , power and teletext . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . But obviously the board tends to disagree .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No we we haven't voted yet , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh I think teletext can be uh um can be a function as well . But only if uh if it won't higher the the cost , because I don't know if it will be a lot more money to implement teletext as well , but I don't think it will be a problem . Or is teletext a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But um deaf people need uh teletext for uh for subtitles .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , also .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So I suggest uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think it'd definitely be a bad idea not to include teletext .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is anybody um really against teletext ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No ? Just that , that we just keep the teletext . I think that's a good idea as well , especially for the subtitles . Maybe we can make that um another point of advantage in our remote control , if we uh make a k a button ex for example for big subtitles , which is instantly on the remote control . For elderly people they can think , oh I wanna have subtitles ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and they push the button and they get the big subtitles .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh that's a good idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um so I think teletext can v can be very useful in our advantage . Um {disfmarker} Functionality should be few buttons , you said .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think uh that's very important we have a few buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So to keep it simple .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I don't think that's really an issue any more 'cause {disfmarker} Well might be .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If it's only for televi",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I mean it , if it's only for T_V_ you're not gonna need a lot of buttons anyway .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You need a one to zero button , next channel , previous channel ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "volume up , volume down , and some teletext buttons but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But do you need {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we can s we can skip the display ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think if you if you only l",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so uh we don't need it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But do you need the buttons for one to zero .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe c we can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Think if you're gonna include teletext you do . I think many people like to use that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we can use uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause if you should , if you want to switch from channel one to like thirty five , you don't wanna push the next channel button thirty five times .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , maybe we can implement the scroll button ? Or a joystick like ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "There are other ways too . Just look if you look at telephones . The Sony telephone has a scroll button which is very useful in searching names or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's true but um I don't think there are many T_V_s that can switch channels that fast . And so you would need like the T_V_ would need an a function where you can actually view all channels and scroll through it . And I dunno if many channels would do have that . If many T_V_s have that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And besides that it's um {disfmarker} If we're gonna focus on elderly people they'll have to adapt . They're not used to using scroll buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So perhaps we should s stick to the basic layout .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} the numbers yeah . Yeah they can see how much buttons there are going to be on on the display , and if it's too much we can uh reconsider it . But I think there won't be very much buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or there don't have to be a lot .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I don't think {disfmarker} I think if you're gonna make a remote control only to operate a T_V_ , you there's not much you can gain on um having as few buttons as possible . 'Cause I think there are pretty many remote controls that can only operate a T_V_ , which already only have the minimum number of buttons . I don't think there's much to be gained in that area .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The number of buttons ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's very important in the in the design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can make a very fancy design uh with putting the buttons on the right places . And if you have less buttons you can do a lot more with {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That is true but I think there's simply not much to gain on the competition when you when you're making a remote control only for to operate only the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "To operate only the T_V_ yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Cause if you have a a remote control only to operate a T_V_ there's simply not a lot of buttons required . There's not a lot of functions required so most existing remote controls simply don't have a lot of buttons either .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I think it would be very hard to actually gain on the competition here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . So we can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That would that would cost a a big marketing expedition",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "which was one of the arguments to make it only for the T_V_ because we didn't have the time to market a lot .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So you suggest we could better um focus on for example the docking station .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh uh like other functions . Instead of f of less buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe . Well yeah I think , mean we obviously need a good way to position all the buttons and {disfmarker} But I don't think we should spend very much time in that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . No . Do you think the docking station will uh is allowed in the budget we have ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It should be possible yes . If it's not too fancy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Cause it can be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And if the remote stays rather small , it should be possible",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because I think that's uh {disfmarker} That's a good advantage point as well . If we have a fancy-looking docking station",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or very {disfmarker} {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's a nice requirement . Docking station .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we're just gonna focus on the extras ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think maybe we should do some research into what elderly people like to have in a",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "like to have extra in a new remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's a good point . Um {disfmarker} You said they easily get lost as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes well fifty percent of the people indicated that remote control tended to get lost .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So maybe we should implement the audio sign , or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that was what I suggested .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like with your key-chain , if you whistle it goes uh it makes a sound .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You have it on {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you have it's on some phones too , which have a docking station .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And you just press a button and the phone goes ringing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you know where it is .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "audio signal should be possible as well . I think it's not too expensive .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Uh another point is the L_C_D_ screen . Um I don't know if that will rise the cost too much , because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Y i um I think we'll have to choose between the docking station or the screen , 'cause",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It will be too much as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's uh {disfmarker} {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think since a lot of people indicated that a new remote control is hard to learn , and we're focusing on elderly people here which tend to have a hard time understanding new devices , it might be a good idea to have just a little screen on it , which would explain a button if you press it . Which would tell you what it does .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it wouldn't have to be touchscreen or a very expensive screen ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Based .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just the L_C_D_ . Oh just the normal screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just a small screen",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's a good idea . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "with two {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Some extra info . Feedback .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think that's a good idea as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I dunno if that would",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "As the small screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "that would fit into the costs .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Extra button info . I think that should be possible as well . Um {vocalsound} let's see what did we say . Mm . More . Should be fancy to , fancy design , easy to learn . Few buttons , we talked about that . Docking station , L_C_D_ . Um general functions {disfmarker} Yeah . 'Kay . And default materials . I think that's a good idea as well , because um elderly people don't mind if it's a titanium cover or just a plastic one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that doesn't really matter .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I think we nee",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think probably elderly people would be a little bit more careful with their remote controls than youngsters .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh let's um specify the target group . Because are we talking about elderly elderly people or people from forty to eighty . Because I think what we're going to design now is for people above sixty , maybe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh what do we want ? If we want um a {gap} with uh for example the the telephone for elderly people , we can",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "target the real elderly people .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think that would be a {disfmarker} If we should do something like that it would be a , I think it would be really good for uh for the image of the company .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I think , I think there would be a good market for it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that's the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If we're able to really bring an innovative product .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Now you're talking about sixty to eighty for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the really {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sixty .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I'd have to look into that a little more .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And different cultures . Are we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I don't think they have different television sets uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "in uh every country .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We've got five minutes left {vocalsound} just now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So 'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Small warning .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . And with uh the little screen in it , {gap} which explains the buttons . You could {disfmarker} I think we n it would be a lot easier to",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Should {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "adapt it to different cultures .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . In different languages , you know . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or you have to put a language button in it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but that will be a bit unnecessary I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's better to put it on different markets with it all .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that's the the target . Uh then a few small things .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay . I will put the minutes in the project uh project document folder . {vocalsound} Um what we're going to do for the next meeting is the Industrial Designer will do the components concept , User Interface Designer the user interface concept , and the trend-watching . So just keep in mind the things we've said about the target group , {vocalsound} uh requirements , and the trends which are uh going on . And uh specific instructions will be sent to you by uh the personal coach . So um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I thank you for this meeting . And I think we have a lunch-break now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that's a good thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
TS3003c | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"7",
"27"
]
],
"topic": "Presentations about trend-watching, components design, and interface design"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"28",
"131"
]
],
"topic": "Group discussion about energy source, voice recognition, and LCD screen"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"132",
"351"
]
],
"topic": "Group discussion about choosing a specific case design"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The whole meeting was focused on the conceptual design of the new remote control product. After Project Manager briefly reaffirmed the agreements reached in previous meetings, Marketing, User Interface, and Industrial Designer each gave a presentation about trend-watching, interface design, and components design respectively. Then, Project Manager started a group discussion about important points just covered, including energy source, voice recognition, LCD screen, as well as case design, on which more emphasis was paid in the last half of the meeting. Finally, the group roughly drew out a specific case design.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "For one thing, Marketing argued that target customers as the elder generation tended not to shake their remote controls before using. For another, he believed that the docking station was in a position to load up the batteries, therefore, the basic normal battery would be sufficient for the charging need, which was confirmed by User Interface who pointed out that remote control with a minor display would in no way be power-consuming.",
"query": "Why did Marketing disagree with kinetic energy as a solution proposed by Industrial Designer?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"46",
"66"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing first brought up price concern, implying that voice recognition could significantly drive up cost and price. Also, Marketing argued that unlike the LCD screen, the elderly would not fancy speech recognition because it would not make the remote control more user-friendly. Project Manager applauded Marketing's opinion and agreed that the LCD screen should be given priority over voice recognition.",
"query": "Why did the group discard voice recognition function?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"75",
"125"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Firstly, the group reached a consensus that material should be plastic with wooden colour as opposed to wood. Then, User Interface brought forward a changeable case as a solution and was unanimously accepted. After that, the group discussed the shape of the control and chose single-curved for the time being. Finally, they drew out a specific case design and roughly determined the position of each button while taking the convenience of left-handed users into account.",
"query": "Summarize the group discussion about case design.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"132",
"351"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As Marketing explained, a single remote control would be designed to fit into an original wooden cover as well as a standard plastic one, in order to meet the differentiated needs of the customers. As a result, besides remote control, two types of cases would also be sold as extra products.",
"query": "What decision did the group make on changeable cases when discussing case design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"151",
"248"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Firstly, despite the convenience of left-handed users, symmetrical button design would create extra buttons and hence inevitably confuse users. Also, Project Manager pointed out that left-handed users have no difficulty handling the remote control by either side of hands. User Interface added that a thumb was sufficient for this motion, so no difference should exist between left and right.",
"query": "Why did the group give up the idea of positioning symmetrical buttons on both the left and right side?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"219",
"268"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay . Uh good afternoon . This is our third meeting already .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Good afternoon .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I hope you enjoyed your lunch . {vocalsound} I did anyway . {vocalsound} Um let's see . Presentation three . Okay this is um the second phase uh we're going to discuss today . It's the conceptual design meeting . And a few points of interest in this meeting um are the conceptual specification of components . Uh conceptual specification of design . And also trend-watching . Um these are hopefully the points you addressed in uh your pre uh presentations you're going to show me in a few minutes . Um but first I'll show you the agenda . Uh first the opening . Then we have three presentations . Uh after that we have to come to a decision on remote control concepts . How we're going to make it . And then we're closing . We have about forty minutes . Uh so I suggest let's get started . Uh did someone encounter any problems during the preparation ? No ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Everything fine ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's nice . Then a little uh thing about the last meeting . Uh these are the points um we agreed on . The requirements and the target market . Uh requirements are uh teletext , docking station , audio signal , small screen , with some extras that uh button information . And we are going to use default materials . Um does somebody have any comments on these requirements ? Maybe ? No ? These are just the the things we thought of , so maybe if you figured something else or thought of something else , just let me know . And maybe we can uh work it out . And we're going to target uh sixty to to eighty year old customers . So now everybody knows what we're do we're doing , um I suggest let's get started with the presentations . So shall we keep the same uh line-up as uh last time ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'll start off then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Good luck . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Doh . 'Kay I'm uh gonna inform you about the trend-watching I've done over the past few days . Um we've done some market research . We distributed some more enquetes , questionnaires . And um besides that um I deployed some trend-watchers to Milan and Paris to well get all of the newest trends . And I've consulted some additional trend-watch trend-watchers , after the original trend-watchers return , about what the the best design would be . Um okay these are some overall findings . Um most important thing is the fancy design . Um the research indicated that that was by far the most important factor . Um innovativeness was about half as important as the fancy design . By innovativeness this means um functions which are not featured in other remote controls . Um about half of , half as important as the innovativeness was the was easy to use . Um for our um group , we're focusing on the people of sixty to eighty y years old , this is um , these factors are slightly more equal . 'Kay these are some more group specific findings . Uh the older people prefer dark colours . Uh they like recognisable shapes , and familiar material . And our surveys have indicated that especially wood is pretty much the material for older people . Um this is , this image will give you a little bit of an impression about um the look-and-feel that um the remote should have . Um this leads us to some personal preferences . Uh the remote control and the docking station should uh blend in in the in the room . Um so this would mean no uh eye-catching designs . Just keep it simple and {disfmarker} Well the docking station and small screen would be our main points of interest , because this would be the {disfmarker} These would uh be the innovativeness in the remote control . So this would be very important that we {vocalsound} at least include these features . Um well the trend-watchers I consulted advised that it b should be , the remote control and the docking station should be telephone-shaped . So you could imagine that uh the remote control will be standing up straight in the docking station . This is not really {disfmarker} This is pretty much a new shape to uh older people . So they would prefer uh a design where the remote control just lies flat in the docking station . So it would be kinda more telephone-shaped . Um besides that we would advise um to bring two editions , one with a wood-like colour and maybe feel , and one with a grey-black colour . The wood-like for the more uh exclusive people . People with more money . Uh the grey-black colour for well people with less means . That would be all .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Thank you . Any questions about the the trends ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Any questions ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mayb",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ? Okay , we go on to the next one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {vocalsound} 'kay um yeah . {gap} uh some uh research uh a about um designing of an interface . Um the uh last meeting uh we had a about um uh using a f few buttons . So uh um uh that's w what I what I want to uh uh to do in uh our design . So um finding an attractive uh way to control uh the remote control . Um the uh {disfmarker} I found some uh something about uh speech uh recognition . So maybe uh we can uh use uh that . Um {disfmarker} Uh and uh using a little uh display . So um findings . Um yeah just um we have just to focus on the primary um functions . So uh only uh buttons uh for uh sound , um for uh on-off , um uh shifting u up uh sa uh ca channel or uh down shifting down . Um uh let's see . Um yeah and {disfmarker} Uh {gap} we uh need some uh new a attractive functions uh uh which attract uh uh people for using it . So uh it's uh like a speak uh speech uh recognition and um a special button for selecting uh subtitles . Just uh what we uh mentioned uh last uh meeting . Um and yeah overall um user-friendly . So uh using uh large large buttons . Um {disfmarker} It's uh possible to uh uh to make um quite cheap uh system for uh speech uh recognition . Um you can think about um uh when you lost your um remote control , you can uh call it and um it gives an um sig signal . So uh uh yeah . And and uh for uh shifting up a sen uh c ch channel or uh for um uh putting out uh sound or something , you can uh just give a sign uh say um sound off or {disfmarker} A and uh yeah . Television uh put the sound off uh put the sound off uh . Um {disfmarker} Let's see . Uh yeah . I was thinking about the special uh button for uh subtitles , um just one button to keep it uh simple . Uh one push on the button uh you get uh uh small uh subtitles . Um double push push um , if double click , um so uh you get uh big uh subtitles , for uh people uh um uh which c f uh who can't uh read small uh subtitles . So uh {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} Yeah and w we have to keep uh in general buttons uh so um we've got um the buttons we have to use . The on-off , sound on-off , sound higher or lower , um the numbers , uh zero to uh uh nine . Um the general buttons m more general b one button for shifting up and shifting down uh channel . Um also we want to uh use a little d display uh for um for displaying the uh the functions of the buttons . And um we can uh build in a function f which uh shows the channel or some uh which the t television is on . So um made a little uh picture of uh it . Um {disfmarker} See . Um yeah . Just um we can put uh the on-off button uh over in this uh corner , um almost uh e all uh remote controls uh are using a on-off button on that place . Um so uh people uh will uh recognise uh um the button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So um {disfmarker} D display uh of it , it's uh just a small display . Uh um you can put it uh on top . Um it's uh most uh uh place where people uh , most of {gap} looks at . So uh um and a special uh button for shifting up uh and uh shifting down uh channel , um it's uh on place where um the thumb of of the {disfmarker} So you you can uh easily uh shift up or shift down . Um it's uh quite uh handy place . So um and uh all the f functions for subtitle uh one button , uh for sound uh {disfmarker} Uh and uh for our design , um uh we have to discuss about it uh I think uh so uh the form of it so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And that's it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh thank you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . About the components design . Um for the energy source we can use a basic battery or , a as an optional thing , a kinetic energy , like in a watch , which you just shake and it produces energy . But if we choose for that option , the docking station would c become obsolete . So I don't think it's really an option . Uh for the casing , uh the uh manufacturing department can deliver uh a flat casing , single or double curved casing . It's really up the the design that we're gonna use . It's uh doesn't uh imply any technical restrictions . Uh as a case supplement , we could um , I thought of that l later , uh a rubber uh belt , like a anti-slip . Uh for the b buttons , we can use plastic or rubber . And the chip-set , um it says simple here , but it should be advanced , because we're using an L_C_D_ uh screen . And as uh the trend-watcher presentation showed , um people like wood , but it raises the price and it doesn't really fit the image , unless we would start two product lines . Form should follow function overall . Um well the kinetic energy source is rather fancy . But depends on what we want . I think we should disc discuss that . Um for the case , uh the supplement and the buttons , it really depends on the designer . And the chip-set uh really should be advanced because otherwise uh it would really be a simple uh remote control . And that's it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Thank you . So that brings us to the discussion about our concepts . Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . So these are the points we have to discuss . Um first I think we can talk about the energy source , since that's um has a pretty big influence on production price , uh and image .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh so uh f I think first of all we have to see uh it is possible to introduce kinetic energy in our budget , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes w there there are four options . We could use the basic normal battery .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh a hand dynamo .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I don't think that's {vocalsound} really an option .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You don't wanna swing before you can watch television .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh solar cells . But not every room is very light",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so it's not a very good option .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or the kinetic energy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And how exactly does the kinetic energy work ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well y you basically shake your remote , and then it powers up .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You just {disfmarker} You use it and it works .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well personally I don't think that older people like to shake their remote control before they use it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . That's true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And besides that you mentioned it would make the docking station obsolete .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I think our docking station could be one of the marketing issues with which we can um get great popularity for our product .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um wel",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "what's the function ? Yeah f for loading up uh the batteries {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you could load up the batteries ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "B b",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you could um insert the find the lost remote control function in there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay but uh it won't use uh much e energy uh I I believe . Uh it's uh just a small display so I believe uh it will run on one battery for um six months or f or or more . So I believe one battery uh is just enough .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh well I think uh elderly people just like to have everything in place .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's true . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And I don't think they they like uh remotes just laying everywhere in their rooms .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So maybe a docking station will help them give the remote a place .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's true . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And also what you said . Um you can introduce voice recognition by uh finding back your remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I think it's um more efficient and cheaper to put it in the docking station .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you have a but button on your docking station which you can push , and then it starts beeping .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And then we can we can still use the voice recognition , but maybe then for only the the channels .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's safe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm wondering um what will the voice recognition mean for the production price ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's a good point .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm I don't have any information on pricing . So I'll have to ask the manufacturing department .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause in our earlier um market research , if you'd allow me to go to the flat board , SMARTboard .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure . Go ahead .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um so it was open here . Um we also um asked if w they would , if people would pay more for speech recognition in a remote control . Well you can see here , our target group would not do that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So if that would increase the price for which we're selling our remote control",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I would greatly advise not to do it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think that would be better to uh insert in our other product , that is meant for the",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "younger people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But that would also go for the L_C_D_ screen then I guess . It's a bit higher percentage , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um well this is Yeah but this is here the question was , would you prefer it . So that doesn't really mean they wouldn't pay extra for it . And on top of that the L_C_D_ screen would um help in making the remote control easier to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I think a voice recognition function would not make the remote control much easier to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Easier to use ? No , I think that's a good point .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But uh is uh our uh research um about um bi large uh L_C_D_ sh uh display , or uh just a small one uh we want to uh use ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um well this was for like an L_C_D_ screen like you would have on a on the the most advanced mobile phones .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So pretty large .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I personally think the L_C_D_ screen we wanna use , with the extra information , I think nobody has anything against it . Because it's just uh some extra information ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and it's easy to ignore as well . So if you don't wanna use it you just don't use it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And um yeah I think the um {disfmarker} Maybe we have to uh discard the voice recognition . Because it will increase cost uh signifi uh significantly . And I don't think the {disfmarker} I don't think it will be a lot easier to use , as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that brings us back to the energy . If we don't have the voice recognition , it will it won't use a lot of energy to use . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So in that case we could use kinetic uh energy , but I think just a simple battery which you can reload on a docking station is just as good . And much cheaper as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And that's the best choice .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay let me just choose for the battery . That brings us to the chip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well there isn't any choice there because we're using the the the the display .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just the advanced .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's gotta be advanced .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} , advanced chip . And then we get to the point of the case . Um which brings us a little bit back to marketing as well . Uh if we wanna choose for wood or the black and grey . Or both ? Um as we saw there is not {disfmarker} Yeah wood is a lot more expensive to produce .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um but I think it will attract elderly people who wanna have something exclusive , which they can show off to their grandkids .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Look I've got a new remote control , and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh I dunno .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And I think most important factor there is the wooden colour . So it wouldn't actually have to be wood ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "if it's just",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "wood-coloured .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But with colour was a lot more expensive ? Or ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm I dunno .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You don't know ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'll have to uh research .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think so because {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Probably .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's a lot more difficult to to handle and to to get in the right shape .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Uh is it possible uh to make um changeable uh case . So um uh you 'cause uh {disfmarker} Yeah with uh mobile phones uh uh so uh like the Nokia mobile phones , uh when you can change the case of it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Change the cases . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "maybe it's possible uh possibility . So um um you have just to make one um standard um remote control , and um yeah you can sell uh few uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can sell the cases .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think that's a very good option . Because um then you can advertise as well with the {disfmarker} Give your grandfather a new case for his remote control , or whatever . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because that's a {disfmarker} it's something extra , it's something other remotes don't have ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "which we can get a great advantage point .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that is true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So and then you can make them with colour . Black and grey , other colours as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . We would have to look carefully into the design though .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Costs .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Cause we would have to make one w uh control which would fit in with a wooden cover and a plastic cover . The more original one , or the more standard one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . So",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that would {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you suggest we should design two different telephones on which you can apply , yeah {vocalsound} remote controls , on which you can apply different case covers , for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I wouldn't design a telephone",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well no I think w we should just , we should then just design one um",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "one remote , but it would have to be fancy with either the wood cover or the plastic one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , but that shouldn't be too much of a problem .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So everybody's okay with the changing covers ? I think that's a good uh good option .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Changing case covers .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um I heard our Industrial Designer talk about uh flat , single and double curved .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Could you explain that a little more ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well the the general like most older remotes are flat , just straight .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh our d manufacturing department can also deliver single curved or double curved ca curved cases .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And what would single curved and double curved mean ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um it would just only affect the form , for as far as I know . So it's j really just up to the design department what we're gonna use . It doesn't really matter for the price or the functionality .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So we can pretty much just do whatever we want .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Pick one you like , yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . That's good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh but the form has to be um {disfmarker} It has to {disfmarker} It's has to be possible to stand up ? Or just only to lie down ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No just to lie down .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the the cover of the the docking station is also",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We'll go for that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "on top of the television then ? Or not ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well or besides it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you can just yeah then click it in . That's okay . Um so the interface . What type of interface do we want to use ? Um maybe you can make a little drawing of it on the",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "on the the board .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Does somebody have ideas for a form or",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh we can just use the regular form of it , but it's um not quite uh fancy . So um {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um you uh said you wanted to put the um changing channels button on the right side ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so you could , so your thumb would be easily {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well uh I think that was a very good point 'cause I pointed out earlier that a lot of remotes cause R_S_I_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that would be great for that . Um I thought maybe we could just make one of those buttons on both the left and the right side .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For uh {disfmarker} Uh for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For left-handed users also .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah we Is it possible to um program it s so uh you got on the left side uh or on the right side uh buttons for for shifting u up and shifting up ? And on the uh other uh {vocalsound} uh o other side uh buttons for uh shifting , uh for for the sound ? Or {disfmarker} Or isn't it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For the volume . Um well",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "that could {gap} Yeah we could do that but I'm not sure if that would be very good for the easy , ease of use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Usabili Yeah ease of use will be a lot more difficult ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But if we would make um a changing channels and changing volume button on both sides , that would certainly yield great options for the design of the remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause it could be made all symmetrical and stuff .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you have extra buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So people can get confused .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That is true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Especially if they have the same writings on it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "See um yeah . Or we have to make a left uh {disfmarker} For lefties",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Can't we make uh {disfmarker} Can't we make a remote which you can flip over and use on the same",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "functions as the normal one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You mean um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then you have to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah if {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Let's see if I ca A blank one . And then you get {disfmarker} Here's a little L_C_D_ screen . Uh now I have to think . It's a plus and a min . No it's not very handy I think . Because the plus and the min will be opposite",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and all kinds of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No that's not gonna work . I guess . Maybe we should {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But is it a problem that left-handed persons use a different hand ? I think the functions are that basic that nobody should have any problems with uh choosing a channel",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That is true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's just uh u using uh your thumb .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Y yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we could just uh leave it a normal shape .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh but maybe we have to make it a l a bit more fancy . In one or ano another way .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we should start by by choosing a case . Because that's the basis you're building on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um yeah",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I could draw them out .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Let's look at the flat case . Oh . It's from the side so it's rather normal .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The the single curved so I'm not really sure what they're gonna look like , but I think it's something like this . So this type should be better for you or better {disfmarker} Should prevent repetitive strain injury a bit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Easier ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the double curved s looks something like this I guess .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So th those are the three options we have .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I suggest um the single curved , because maybe the curve is pretty good to put the the screen in .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh so that elderly people can uh use the remote control and at the same time look easily at the screen , because it's a bit , it has a bit of a angle .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um {disfmarker} Do you say this um {disfmarker} S uh {disfmarker} Uh you got like uh sort of a {disfmarker} I believe {disfmarker} {gap} There ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So um you want to put a display over here ? Or not ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think so . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um {disfmarker} Yeah . Uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But now it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we can make it um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Do you have it upside down or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Do you have it",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's the top .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "this that's top ? Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh this top . This down . Um maybe it's possible to uh make this side like um {disfmarker} Let's see . Um {disfmarker} Colour uh okay . Uh to make this side um like mm the right colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um bit like so uh um in the form of your hand . So um {disfmarker} Uh it's an {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So so the remote control have to um lay in your hand . So uh it's possib um yeah for s so and",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So get your mouse . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And to put uh the the buttons for um changing uh the channel uh over here uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's a good one . But I think it's better to put the screen uh on top .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh rem",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So just flip it a hundred and eighty degrees around then you get {disfmarker} {gap} here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but this place um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If you can have this one , you turn it like this . And then flip it upside down .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's {disfmarker} Yeah I dunno um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because uh maybe your hand is in the way , if you have the display here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's more logical to have it on top as well",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think i",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because , like on your mobile phone , it's always above .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On top .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh maybe you should just s start on a blank page .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . So",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "then we get {disfmarker} Here's {disfmarker} That's the curve .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Five minutes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Here the display , and then buttons . Yeah and then we can have a little bit off here and here maybe . Just that's for left hand and right hand users .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then h the rest of the buttons over here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But um the on-off button , um still on the top uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah still here",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "jus",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I'd prefer the corners to be round .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . 'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Should be more bit more friendly ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Think that would be better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Friendly on the eye .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . Supplements . That's okay . Where's my mouse ? Then {disfmarker} We've got a general idea of the concepts and the materials we're going to use . So now for the next meeting uh we'll have to look at the look-and-feel design . It's important that the corporate design image uh is going to be in the remote . So check out the corporate website maybe . The user interface design , it's the same story . And product evaluation . So the Industrial Designer and User Interface Designer are going to work together on this one . But you're going to get your instructions I think sended by the coach . So just um I will put these um minutes on the in the folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then we're going to uh try to finish our project , and uh make a good design for all the grandfathers and grandmothers , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Which are {disfmarker} Uh let's see . I'm not sure if you're going to start right away to work together or {disfmarker} I think you're going to fill in the questionnaires first .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And then you'll get a message .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that's uh basically it . Maybe this one ? Then we can save this one in the folders group . Uh yes , it's here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} SMARTboard , there it it . So if you wanna have a look at it , it's over there in the projects folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And then I guess we'll start in thirty minutes again . Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Very good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3003d | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"15",
"82"
]
],
"topic": "Prototype presentation followed by a brief discussion"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"83",
"382"
]
],
"topic": "Finance and budget control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"383",
"691"
]
],
"topic": "Product evaluation and project evaluation"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The whole meeting was the final meeting of the project for discussion about the final design and project evaluation. Firstly, though Project Manager came late, he efficiently started the prototype presentation, during which Industrial Designer and User Interface presented the final design they worked out together. However, part of the features contained in their design, particularly too many buttons, were effectively rejected in the finance phase to reduce cost. Then, Marketing hosted the product evaluation and calculated a total score for their new remote control. After that, Project Manager guided the process evaluation and led the project to the closing phase.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "When the group found out that they came across a fairly tight budget, they cut the number of batteries from 2 to 1 and chose plastic as the cheapest case material supplement. But they still kept the advanced chip, LCD screen, and docking station, all of which they considered to be the strength of the product. After that, they touched on the button issue and realized that that was where the biggest cost driver hid. As a hurry solution, they quickly discarded the help and the mute button, replaced buttons for the program with a scroll-wheel, and removed a volume button and a channel button to reduce cost.",
"query": "Summarize the group discussion about finance and budget control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"83",
"382"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Firstly, when the group realized that cost was chiefly incurred by excessive buttons, they quickly decided to discard the help and the mute button. But then they found out that the primary cost drivers were 10 buttons for program numbers. To get rid of them, Project Manager boldly proposed replacing them with a scroll-wheel, which was finally accepted despite disputes over its unfriendly nature for elderly users. Also, the group agreed to remove a volume and a channel button by shifting the up-and-down function onto scroll-wheel and having radio buttons.",
"query": "How did the group decide to reduce the cost of buttons?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"117",
"302"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "First and foremost, Marketing believed that the elder generation expected to have ten buttons for the number one to zero, rather than a scroll-wheel with radio buttons, which would inevitably harm the usability. In this case, a lot of marketing would be required to convince elderly users, who were unfamiliar with fancy stuff like scroll-wheel at all. Additionally, he complained that the cost limit made it almost impossible to produce anything better than normal controls, and that he would not make those impelled changes if it was not for cost's sake.",
"query": "Why was Marketing discontent with all those changes made to buttons during the discussion about finance?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"274",
"355"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Though Project Manager forgot to prepare evaluation criteria beforehand, Marketing had analyzed project requirements and brought forward a systematic set of criteria, according to which product was graded by the whole group. Then, under the guidance of Project Manager, the group evaluated the project process. Eventually, the meeting stepped into the closing phase.",
"query": "Summarize the group discussion about project evaluation.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"383",
"691"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "On the basis of literature study and requirements analysis carried out by Marketing, specific criteria were as follows: design innovation, learnability, functionality, utility, cost, target customer, recognizability, etc. After the group brought forward a score for each in sequence, the total score was calculated as 84%, which was acknowledged as a nice score.",
"query": "What specific criteria did Marketing bring forward for product evaluation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"402",
"497"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When it came to processing evaluation, though Industrial Designer appeared to think highly of Project Manager's arrangements, Marketing clearly voiced his dissent. as he explained, it is obvious that financial issues were touched on too late, making it imperative to further adjust to the final design during budget control. Project Manager himself admitted that there existed a lack of information about prices, which in fact led to a number of unrealistic dialogues about costly functions like recognition.",
"query": "During process evaluation, why did not Marketing agree that the meeting process was moving along the right phases?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"511",
"525"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} Hello . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Good afternoon . Sorry I'm a little late .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No problem .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Got stuck in the traffic .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's possible on uh this time of day . Starts at three o'clock . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , let me see . Our fourth and last meeting . There he is . Yes . Okay this our last meeting . In this meeting we will discuss our final design . And we will do some evaluation about the , not only the product , but also the project . And then we're going to close the project today as well . So after this you will be uh free to go and uh spend all your money . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And this uh design , detailed design meeting uh we will discuss uh the look-and-feel of the design , the usability interface design , and we will do the product evaluation . Um , in order to do that we have this agenda . We'll have the prototype presentation first . Then we will set up some evaluation cri um criteria . {vocalsound} Then we will look at the finance . Uh we will have to see if everything we wanna do is also possible within our budget . Because everything costs money , and the more functions you wanna have the more money it will cost . So we have to see if it fits within the twelve and a half Euro per remote . But we will see that later . Then we will do the project uh evaluation , and the closing after that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We've got forty minutes . So we will be finished at half past three . But first um we will do the {disfmarker} this is prototype presentation . So , if some yeah if somebody wants step forward .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well this is what me and Richard came up with . The default spot for the on-off button . The mute button just below that . Then there's the volume and channel selectors . Simple plus-minus button . Uh we thought of a help button . If you hold it and you press another button , uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen . Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons . A button for teletext . A button for the subtitles . And the company logo . So it's rather simple prototype . And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionality ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sure uh just pop in at any time .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um , when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred . Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel . S so uh the shifting uh button . Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext , and shifting uh down . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay . Um {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uh simple . Uh just a few buttons and large buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons . So I'm wondering if we if we neely {disfmarker} really need all of those buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think if you look at most controls , they've got more buttons than this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And well the on-off button , it's it's a necessity .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can't drop that one . The volume and channel buttons , you need you obviously need those those .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The mute button could be replaced uh by pressing the volume-down button twice . So we could cancel that one . I think the help button really is necessary",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because there's no other way to know when someone wants to know what a button does .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , or you can build in uh when you press uh one button uh uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Long time . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If you put {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But m Yeah . We disc discuss that already . But uh we think uh old people uh don't know that uh option . So uh they just put in uh put {vocalsound} press uh the button and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , {vocalsound} you can't leave out the number buttons I guess .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh teletext and subtitles are yeah necessary .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's rather basic already .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Think so . That's what I pointed out earlier . If you just make a control for just the T_V_ there's just not much to gain here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So we had somebody about th interfa Something about the design of the buttons there ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they're {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just n normal plain buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's rather hard to draw on the white-board .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But they're supposed to be equal sized , round , with a with a little logo on it for the for the volume , the the triangle and stuff .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . 'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah . Just to recognise it , so uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Just for recognition .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah and now we don't need uh LEDs or um {disfmarker} Y uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "s some uh remote controls uh do it also ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but um uh because we use the little display we don't uh have to use it . Uh so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So and for the materials we've just chosen for rubber buttons . With a a different colour than the case .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Nay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So they jump out .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh that's about it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's nice . Then because we only have thirty minutes left , I will move on to the finance part , which is pretty exciting , to see if it's all possible what we wanna do . And I can tell you that we're going to have a pretty hard time producing this for twelve and a half Euros .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If we see {disfmarker} I don't know if I've filled in correctly , so just correct me if you see uh something wrong . I counted two batteries . But maybe we can also use one . I don't know if it's possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Since it rechargeable .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's rechargeable . That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we can u just uh {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . That's two Euros off . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We need the advanced chip . So there's not much to uh {vocalsound} to save there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Here we have the single curves . Uh we can see that the difference between uncurved and the single curved is one Euro . Um ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know , but I think the single curved is good for design , and also for the display to have a prominent place on the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we have to keep that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then we have the case material supplements . It's plastic . It's the cheapest one we need . So that's uh not much to save either . But then the biggest costs are the buttons . So maybe we really should try to discard some buttons to uh keep our costs low .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because you have to {disfmarker} we will have to get the twelve and a half Euros at the end . Um ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so if we {disfmarker} Let's fir first count the buttons we have now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Sixteen , I believe so .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Sixteen . Nah , that will be even more then . Eighteen Euros . So ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh seventeen . Uh with the help button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "seventeen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , including the help ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Damn .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh seventeen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we can uh discard the help and the mute button uh by pressing down volume long , or pressing down a a number long .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That saves us uh one Euro already . 'Cause then we have got fifteen I think ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Wouldn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Fifteen buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . No . That wouldn't be an option .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And this is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , d I assume you'd count the volume and channel thingies for two buttons each , right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No those are one , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Where did uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , think actually there're two buttons ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it's just one button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "aren't they ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , um {disfmarker} Yeah . There were uh two uh for one big button . But they are uh more expensive than the small ones . Uh , yeah . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but th it's not stated in this files .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's just a {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So maybe we can we can even make one button with the volume and the channel in one , by pressing",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I was thinking , maybe you could just integrate three of those numbers to one button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's possibility as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That would cut the cost .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} And it's good for the design as well . So you can make {disfmarker} Uh let's see . If you make this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Looks a bit like uh a cross . {vocalsound} Plus . Min .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I don't don't know if if it's cheaper .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh s yeah channel .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah w",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we've still got four buttons , but just um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah th I think they count uh the materials .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You got uh not not a butt button itself , but uh on the um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah on the chip there . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . On the chip you've got still uh four uh four buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's right . That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I think because we have the advanced chip",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} we can just count this as one button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But , I think this really is four buttons anyhow .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} No but I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Maybe it is , but then it seems to me that it's impossible to get the twelve and a half Euros . Also the L_C_ display , I think it's , I think it's too expensive for the display we use .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh that's that's a big cost .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think they uh try t",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If we leave out the display we can also save money on the chip .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's right , but what's the big advantage of our remote then ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Only the docking station , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which isn't the {disfmarker} the docking station isn't even in this c s schematic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's not even taken into the price .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's extra . {vocalsound} That's extra . That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we should to a different supplier .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's an option .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Poland . Something . {vocalsound} Polish supplier . Don't you think we can , if we can count this as v as one button , and integrate th uh these buttons in three , then we save a lot of money as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We we could save money on it . But would it make the remote more usable for elderly people ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's what I'm wondering . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "My mother can't even send send an S_M_S_ message .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's a point .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Are we gonna buy a um a remote control uh when you can uh use it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So um {disfmarker} Yeah . We m uh we must um stay below the um below um twelve uh fifty or {disfmarker} Can't uh go um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , since the market research indicated that older people spend their money easier , more easy , maybe it's feasible to just put the price of the remote up a little . Especially since we have those nice features .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but uh we have to stick to the twelve and a half Euros . We don't have any more budget to develop it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is it impossible to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The margin will get too small . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But it is possible to make one uh for uh twelve fifty .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It is . If you leave out the L_C_ display . And if you use less buttons . Say {disfmarker} Or you can take the single chip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It would be a be a pretty rigid one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , you can't use uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ten .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There it is . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But then w Good looking .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , wi with n Oh , with uh attractive uh o options .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh , you can stay uh below uh twelve fifty . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's uh difficult as well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or b",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Basically becoming a choice between like either a good remote and a higher production cost , or just any other remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No remote . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or we can leave out the ten buttons and take one scroll wheel for the programme numbers . Then w",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Scroll-wheel's one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because then we save ten buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then we have five and one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And and see . If we have this one and we've got the advanced {disfmarker} W uh , we're getting close . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We're getting closer .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But how does scroll-wheel work here ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then you will {disfmarker} Or maybe you can um scroll . If you scroll you will see the numbers on the L_C_D_ display . Until you've got the right number , then you push it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That would bring up the price of the scroll-wheel also . Integrated scroll-wheel push-button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright . It's gotta scroll and push .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay but then you you can push uh some other button as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You could just not scroll for a half a second .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's right . So if you scroll to a number and then you wait a half second , then it g turns to that channel .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you won't need a button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think that would be like the end of our usability .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But it would definitely crop cost , a lot .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "D yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And we need the battery . {vocalsound} And the regular chip is not possible ? It has to be advanced ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you want to use an L_C_D_ screen you you need an advanced chip , yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It has to be advanced . Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And we can save a Euro by a flat design . That's an option we can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ja ja .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then we're almost there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah if you v could just leave out one more button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So if we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , or we have to uh skip the subtitle uh button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but I think that's {disfmarker} That is a big advantage ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} Yeah {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "if we're {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's a big advantage .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But um , it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Can we use {disfmarker} can't we integrate the teletext and the subtitles in one button ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think so . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If you push it three times ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , think it's pretty much the teletext subtitles are",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "right now you just push the teletext button , go to page eight eight eight ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and teletext disappears . But the subtitles stay there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker} But if you push the teletext button twice {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} What if you have to scroll to page eighty eight ? Eight hundred eighty eight . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think that's the case on most {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's uh {disfmarker} One m uh one b uh , a few buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah that's not really that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , that could be just uh like the scroll to eight , click , scroll to eight , click , scroll to eight , click .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But then again that would be d j just pretty much not an option for older people ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "who don't even know what a scroll-wheel is .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Holding a remote with {vocalsound} which they expect to have like ten buttons for the numbers one to zero .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "With only five buttons on it . And a scroll-wheel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think if you make a good advertisement uh on television and in the in the guide , you can explain to the people how to use the scroll wheel . If you just make it real simple . Because it saves it saves a lot of money . And we can keep our L_C_D_ screen , which can provide extra information . How to use the scroll wheel . How to use the other bu buttons as subtitles .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "True . True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And it's good for the innovative design as well . If you would erase these . Mm eraser ? And we put uh {disfmarker} Looks a bit odd maybe . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's a pretty big scroll wheel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Something like that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then , yeah . We've got the scroll-wheel . One , two , three , four , five buttons , if we erase this one . And these are two buttons then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We could make two buttons out of that . And just um {disfmarker} If you press the volume button you can control the volume with the scroll-wheel .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that would save two buttons . If you do the same for the channel .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's really a good good idea , I think . And it will make the use of the scroll wheel uh more obvious indeed .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "More obvious .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we make one for the volume , one for the channel . Plus scroll . That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So if we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we've got one , two , three . Yeah , we can leave the teletext in if we want . That's m that's better .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So this is five buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If we leave out all those buttons , perhaps you can go with the flat flat case . And make it smaller overall .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Y yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So if you put the the volume and channel buttons on the same height as the on-off button , the screen right behi under that , than the scroll button",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah . Uh yeah , and then you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you get a a much smaller remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And it sh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we can decrease this one to four buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right now we have five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh , you can make a f quite a big uh remote remote control for uh just the same price as a small one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's no problem .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just uh you only have to pay for the double curved or single curved . It uh it's a bit uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . It's uh it's more the moulds in which they are being made , I think . Single curved is really easy to just fill in .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And cases come right out of the machine .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And single curved you have to have a different uh different machine , than a flat one . I think this is a really easy one . Um , what does everybody think about a flat or a single curved design ? Freek , what do you think ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I still think we should go for the single curve design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But then again , {gap} all these changes are not really okay with me .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Richard's argument was very good . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But since we just have to .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We have to cut costs . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah I'm ag",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'd rather just go to the board and get us to spend {vocalsound} eighteen dollars a a remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ask for more money . Yeah . Yeah . I am agreeing with the usability . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or do some market research and see what the options are .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But th um I think we can then keep the single curved one . Just to express our L_C_D_ screen a bit more .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So people will use it more , and especially for the help functions ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it will be good if we have scroll bar , scroll button . It will be necessary to have good help function , as well . So this is scroll . I think it was better to have this price list a bit earlier . {vocalsound} Before we went on to the to the whole design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Definitely . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The th",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} I'm glad we could make a bit .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's pretty different , if you saw the last one than {vocalsound} this one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's pretty different .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But this is not really like for the group we were making our remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This will really require a lot of marketing to get this to sell .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It will . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause if older people like familiar forms and familiar stuff . This is not familiar for them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , but I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we're gonna have to do a lotta convincing them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think the most {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But they know the scroll-buttons from uh old radios . Uh they cal also uh buttons like that for uh changing uh channels .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We can let l",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So maybe it's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We can stick it out , a bit . Like a old old buttons . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe that's recognisable for them as well . Yeah . That's a good one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , I'm afraid we have to move on . And it's uh it's b uh less frightening , I think . If they see this design they think oh , there are only five buttons , and uh {disfmarker} But we will see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's true . Might uh {disfmarker} might be confusing too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's definitely right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They'd be like , what ? Only five buttons ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But very special , so uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I would buy it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . But you're not sixty . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's right . I would buy it if I was six . {vocalsound} No I don't know . What it costs under twelve and a half Euros ? No ? Uh , yes they are .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . But we can go on with the project evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's see . I can sit down I think . We still have fifteen minutes left , so we're nice on schedule .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um , the project process .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um , I like set up all these criteria . And evaluation of the thingy . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Evaluation criteria . That's right . That was the the point I forgot . I should {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There we are . Evaluation criteria . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We've got five minutes I think for those criteria .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Five more minutes ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No we've got fifteen minutes but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh yes . What ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay so I did some literature study study , and analysis of the requirements we set up earlier .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Translated it into criteria , which would be these . Um , is the remote fancy ? The shape , look and feel . Innovative ? What new functions are there ? Uh , easy to use ? Uh , learnability is a very important factor here . Uh , is it functional ? Are there not too many functions uh among the functions ? And are the those functions that are there , are they useful ? And the cost . The target group . Is the remote really for the group we're making it for ? And recognability . If our company is {disfmarker} If it is easily recognisable that our company made it ? And {disfmarker} So we're supposed to evaluate it right now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Let's see . Oh I have to say this was a little hard , because the minutes of our last meeting were not here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's because my pen failed to upload his data .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I tried to",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Interesting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but it's uh it's giving errors by downloading the software .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . 'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is the design fancy , on a scale of one to seven ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it's fancy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Six .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Six .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh six . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We all go for six ? Good . Um , is the design innovative ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Very . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Sh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think so , with our L_C_D_ screen , docking station , scroll-buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Subtitles , buttons . Yeah . Seven .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Seven ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we've got twenty cents for our docking station , huh ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Should be do-able .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is the design easy to use ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Not really .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's a bit dodgy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker} Would be for us . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For old people I I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I would say four . Four or five between . Between four or five .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "W",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Four or five . Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Four .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'd go for four , too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is it functional ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is the design functional ? Um , do we have all functions that we want to include ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "N Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we do . Do we have too many functions ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so . It's pretty slim .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Think it's uh seven .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Seven . Oh , and do we um take care of the biggest frustrations of the remote control ? Like it getting lost and {disfmarker} R_S_I_ influences ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm m",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm , we haven't thought of that one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It was .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Think we do .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I had them worked out . Mm . They are ugly , not very functional , and getting lost .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Are the production costs within the preset limits ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well they are now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Does the design fit the group of focus ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm , th yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think that's a three .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No I think with our new radio button , I think it's uh I think it's better .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think it doesn't .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh {disfmarker} We have to test it s But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I still {disfmarker} I think it's too m too fancy . Too too flashy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think a radio button is not exactly what older people expect to have a remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah , true .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I would give it a four .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure . I think I'd go for two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I go for three . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then we have to do the three . It's the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . Is the company company recognisable ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes it is .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , we have the logo there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And they wanna put fashion in their products . Uh in the slogan of the company . And we have the removable front cases . So , I think it's very recognisable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that will be this . I was also supposed to calculate the score , but thought we would have another private thingy after this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We've got a calculate it . Mm ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Twendag sieven an twendag .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is this {disfmarker} Like after this , are we done ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "N We've gonna {disfmarker} We're going to evaluate it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We're gonna go to our other room again . Well , anyhow . These are seven factors times seven is forty something . Two ? No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Forty nine .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nine ? Uh , minus one . Minus three , minus four . {vocalsound} Minus four . So that would be minus eight . Forty one out of forty nine .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Forty one . That's {disfmarker} Around eighty percent .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What is it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Guess I'll just type that in on the bottom here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's eighty four percent . I think that's a pretty nice score .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . 'Kay . So that will be the evaluation .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . So , that brings us to the project evaluation . Yep . Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Project process . Did we move through the right phases , you think ? {vocalsound} Along the process ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Think we should have a should have had the finance thingy a lot earlier . In the design phase .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's right . So lack of information about prices .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Definitely .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh {disfmarker} Okay . Satisfaction . Was there room for creativity ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not too much . {vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's because of the finance sheet . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , there w there was enough room , but the finance uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , true . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The room was {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I would've liked to go for the younger users also .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And just to be able to access internet and get something of your own .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Restrictions . Internet access . 'Kay . Leadership . Was it clear what everybody had to do uh according to their roles and functions ? Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Teamwork ? Did it work out ? Working together ? Also , you {disfmarker} two of you with the uh last phase ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , was okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nice .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The tasks are very structured , so you can just do step by step and it's very easy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} tasks . Okay . Were the means sufficient for the tasks uh we had to do ? Or were they too much ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , the smart-board , the d d drawing is just a pain in the ass , but {disfmarker} The digital the digital pen is very nice .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Smart-board .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If it wants to download its uh data . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Failed download . Smart-board was irritating . {vocalsound} So you rather wanted to have a flip-over ? Or something else ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A flip-over or a more precise uh digit",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A flipper's uh easier , so {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Faster as well , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Flip-over .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But if you want to share uh of uh when you make um a picture like this uh on the presentation , it's easier to uh share it with uh other people . Uh so uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you can sh save it uh and uh put it on the internet , or uh uh in shared f uh folder or uh sh uh shared directory .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I tried to open the file on my laptop ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? No ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . Didn't work .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {vocalsound} not possible .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh you need a smart board uh application I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I think you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "T can uh can you export it uh like a {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Should be possible . Yeah you can export it as image .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Must {disfmarker} Yeah must be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Should've done that then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So the sharing of the information was uh was okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Pen is here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , network .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , pen is here on the table .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah . So you can {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {gap} It's possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's possible .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's nice . Have we found new ideas for having this kind of meetings ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , yeah maybe um uh when we n uh just uh give the numbers of of uh {disfmarker} Uh uh o one of uh out of s uh sev {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um it's uh easier to uh to do the th things that are like that on a computer . Uh , so uh just l uh like uh at u university uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So {disfmarker} Yeah . So everybody puts his own score .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then {vocalsound} it mediates the score ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and you can get one {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's better . So that's uh {disfmarker} How do we call ? Evaluation criteria . Okay . Mm , any more ideas ? Or questions about the project ? Or about the product ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because I think then that we get to our last sheet . Are the costs within the budget ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "They are .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Considering we are not going to make a docking station .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do we {disfmarker} Docking station . That's a good point .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But maybe because of the docking station the price of the remote can also be a little bit higher ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh and I think you can compensate that as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I think that shouldn't be the biggest problem , because it's very cheap to make as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do we think we gonna get the twelve and a half million ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or what was it ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Fifty grand .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Fifteen fifteen million . I think we will . {vocalsound} If we gonna export this product . It's innovative .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Especially in America . People are pretty decadent . Sometimes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , still I think {disfmarker} I mean if we're n gonna make a scroll-button anyway it'd be more for the younger people than for the older people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can do more . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So maybe we should just re-focus .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just put it on the market for everybody . You can you can change markets where by changing the front covers .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or specifically for younger people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's one thing you can change it with .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you can also try to uh reach the younger people by uh putting fancy covers on on the market . Just as a test . See how it works . That's I think a good advantage .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think then it would be way more uh popular with younger people than it is , than would be with older people . Even if it were their covers .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh , uh then I think we can have our little celebration , right now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Party party .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think we still have to fit in one more questionnaire . I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Where's the champagne ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . I didn't get a message from the from ending of the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I believe y uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh I think I have one now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh you did .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Five more minutes ? Oh that's nice .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then we still have some questions . If somebody has some questions they can ask them now . Or we can put these in the project folder as well . Maybe that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Export as picture , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . This is another network , I guess . Does somebody see the project folder ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't . Hmm . My Documents .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe uh they will save it . So uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I'll just put it in My Documents",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it probably will .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker} That's okay . Okay . {vocalsound} I think I'm going to make our final presentation now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , you're supposed to make a final {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And then I will be back in about ten minutes to show you the final presentation . Summary of the project .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Are we supposed to go into our own rooms again ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe we have to fill uh another questionnaire .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Questionnaire . I think you all get a questionnaire in in your room .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And then I'll meet you in I think about ten minutes , or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hopefully my pen will download its software . Oh . Or data .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . That'd be nice .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
TS3005a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"3",
"165"
]
],
"topic": "Tool training and Team building"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"166",
"260"
]
],
"topic": "Experience with remote control and Initial ideas about new remote control style"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"261",
"365"
]
],
"topic": "Market range and difficulty about the new remote control"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "A new remote control project was introduced by Project Manager. Members made self-introductions and began to know each other by guessing animals others drew. Project manager said that the remote control would be sold at 25 Euros and a production cost of 12.5 Euros. Project Manager also hoped to achieve fifty million Euros and international market by new remote control. Then the team discussed the disadvantages of the remote control and designed a new remote control style. Industrial Designer made a desire to design a remote control that can be used in different devices with most used buttons. Project Manager agreed that rather than complicated buttons, friendly to users and minimalist design with necessary buttons would be better.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "User Interface thought that remote control was easy to lose and complex to use and then suggested new remote control can be integrated. Industrial Designer thought the remote control had too many buttons and a bad signal. Marketing thought different devices had different remote controls. Project Manager thought remote control was all black and boring, then he suggested making remote control fun.",
"query": "What is the group's experience about remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"167",
"216"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer expressed a desire to make the remote friendly to users. He hoped that new remote control should work on different devices. User Interface suggested taking different kinds of Tv like teletext into consideration. Project Manager agreed and supposed remote control with the least amount of buttons.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about the new Remote control style?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"207",
"260"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer desired to make the remote with most used buttons so that the remote was friendly to users. Unnecessary buttons should be behind some kind of protection so that they only can be seen when needed. Instead of a big size, the remote control should be the normal size with the least amount of buttons.",
"query": "What did Industrial Designer think about remote control style?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"210",
"241"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing thought the market included all kinds of people no matter if they were old and young. So it would be better if their aim was the whole world and Britain. Users Interface suggested that market aim should take the remote control style into consideration about. For instance in Britain, people had many things to do with TV. But normal TVs were not like this.",
"query": "What did the group think of market range about remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"260",
"273"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer thought it was impossible to accommodate different TVs on one remote control. Because you can't use a Panasonic remote control on a Philips television. However, Marketing believed that this problem could be solved by a universal remote with code.",
"query": "What did Marketing disagree with Industrial Designer about new remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"282",
"303"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer thought customers would buy a new remote control when they lost or broke the first one. They also bought a new one if they got an older TV. On the other hand, User Interface thought in the future, customers would need remote control with buttons.",
"query": "What is the target population of the new remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"304",
"319"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning . Sorry ? Yeah , busy job . Good morning . So {disfmarker} Oh , good morning everyone .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Good morning .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Good morning .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'd uh like to welcome you to our first meeting . I've prepared a little presentation . My name is {gap} and uh I hope you will introduce yourself uh in a few minutes , as will I . Um I'm the Project Manager of this project , and uh , well I will tell you {gap} on what actually is the project . This is uh the agenda for our first meeting . Um this is the opening , then we will get {disfmarker} {gap} I will hope we will get acquainted to each other . We'll do a little tool training with these two things . We'll take a look at the project plan . Uh there will be time for discussion . Actually we have to discuss because we have to create a product . And then we will close this session . Um but first of all we I'd like to uh introduce you to this room . Um as you probably have noticed there are little black uh fields on the table . Um you have to put your laptop exactly in that field so the little cameras can see your face . Um there are cameras",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "everywhere around the room especially here for your face , of course , and this isn't a pie , it's a a set of microphones",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and there are microphones here also . But please uh don't be afraid of them .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They won't hurt you . Um well uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I said I'm the Project Manager and uh I'm hoping uh for a good project and uh I'd like to hear uh who you are and what your functions are uh on this project . Let's start with the ladies {vocalsound} {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well uh I'm uh {gap} and my uh function is User Interface Design , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So uh that's me .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , uh I'm {gap} uh I'm the Industrial Designer and I uh hope to uh {disfmarker} look forward to uh a very uh pleasing uh end of this uh project .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so I .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Me too .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "My name's {gap} . I'm uh {vocalsound} Marketing Expert . {vocalsound} My job is in the company to promote company or promote products to the customers . So I also h hope we have a pleasant uh working with uh with each other .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well we have some expertise from uh different pieces of the of the company .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's good . Um well I said uh we're working on a project and the aim for the project is to to create a {disfmarker} to design a new remote control which uh has to be original , trendy and of course , user friendly . {vocalsound} And uh I hope we have the expertise to create such a project {disfmarker} such a product . Um the way we hope to achieve that is uh the following methods . It consists of three phases , namely the functional design , conceptual design and detailed design . As you can see , all of these phases consists of two parts , namely individual work part and a meeting where we will discuss uh our work so far . Okay . But first I will uh tell you something about the tools we have here . I already talked about the cameras and microphones , but they are not of uh much use to us . Uh we will have to take advantage of these two things . They are smart boards . As you can see , you can give a presentation on them . And uh this one here is a white board . I will uh instruct you about that soon . Um as you also noticed uh this presentation document is in our uh project folder and every document you put in this folder uh is uh it is possible to show that here in our meeting room . Um and yeah there are available on both smart boards but I think we will uh mainly use this one for the documents in the shared folder . As you can see , this is the same tool bar uh as is located here . Um the most functions uh we will use will be to to add a new page , um uh to go back and forward between pages , and of course uh to save it every now and then . Um and this is the pen with which you can draw on the board , for instance like this if everything's okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but I first have to put it on the pen , you see I'm new to it too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um and then you can write things like test or whatever you want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "As you can see you have to move it a little bit slow , it's not such a fast board , it's a smart board but also a slow board .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh but you can write things and of course you can also , when you click here , uh erase things , so we have uh est left . And um you can also delete an entire page , but we ask you not to do that . Just simply create a new one and uh start all over because we want to save all the results . Um does everyone understand this",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So we can't erase anything .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "nice application ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well you can erase it with the eraser , but uh you shouldn't delete an entire page , but just create a new blank one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I will delete this one now because we don't use it yet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you can of course erase when you make a mistake , but don't uh delete entire pages . And you can also um let's see I think it's here uh change the uh colour of your pen , for instance take a blue one and uh change the line width like to five . Um that's what you will need for our first exercise , because I'm uh going to ask you to draw your favourite animal .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's also to gets to know each other because um I'm asking three things , uh for that uh drawing ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "to do it on a blank sheet , with different colours and I just showed you how to pick a colour , and also with different pen widths which I also showed you . Um and a favourite characteristic can be just uh one word . Well I'm not very good at drawing , but I will uh go first and um try to draw {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe you should guess what I'm drawing , eh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's a sheep . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Dinos",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Seal , a seal . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Dinosaur .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Beaver .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} A beaver . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A be {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well it uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's weird . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "could be everything .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . With a tail and a mouth .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe when I put on",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It has wings ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Turtle .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "this thing it could be a turtle , or a snail ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Snail . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well the snail doesn't have legs .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But a turtle has . And those are slow . And I hope our project group will not be slow ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but we will uh work to a good result",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and do it uh as fast as we can . Okay , time for another animal . Would you like to go next ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No problem . No problem .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . It was four months ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nice , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The hell .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} To make it a little bit easier . {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a giraffe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Make that cute . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or a dinosaur . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , it's a giraffe . 'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's easy to r uh to recognise as a giraffe .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Giraffe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , the favourite charis characteristic is that the long neck , {vocalsound} it can reach everything . And I hope I can also reach a lot with this project . So that's my favourite animal .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Anything else you need to know ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Could you write the words , uh underneath it ? Or more words .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , uh {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Tall . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Tall . So ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Should I uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I can draw , but uh {disfmarker} Uh . Well . {vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "B {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a mouse .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Bunny rabbit . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A bunny rabbit . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Oh wrong one . Uh . {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you can guess what it is , I hope . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh . No problem .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Little rabbits .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's a rabbit .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And uh well uh it's uh quick , I guess . That's uh my uh favourite animal . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And our final drawing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Bob Ross .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A dolphin . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , um .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Dolphin .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I uh draw I I've drawn a dolphin because of its intelligence .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "One of the most intelligent uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "animals in our world .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah intelligent .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "With an E_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I've I've uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Eraser .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can try out the eraser now . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Pen . Well not perfect , but okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "thank you very much . I can see we have some uh drawing talent uh in this group ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Not really . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "huh ? Well , nice animals , nice words . Sounds good . Um back to business , back to the money part . Um from the finance department I have learned that we are aiming for a selling price of twenty five Euros . And we're hoping for a aim of fifty million Euros and uh we are hoping to achieve that uh by aiming for an international market . And the production cost will be twelve Euro fifty max . Okay , well it's time uh for some discussion . I've wrote down some examples here of what we can can speak about . Uh what's your experience with remote controls , um what kind of ideas do you have to design a new remote control , maybe for which market segments should we aim , or should we aim for all segments . Uh well actually I'd like to hand the word uh back to you . What's your experience with remote control ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} I always lose them .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A lot of buttons . And you always lose them .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A lot of buttons which you don't use",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or who you don't use",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Complex .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Complex .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not user friendly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} search for the buttons , which one is which",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Boring .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Boring , it's not fun to use a remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Black , all black .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Black colours .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well maybe we should try to make it fun .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} They use batteries and {gap} batteries uh and poor signal .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps that you have a lot of road remotes r road con remote controls .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The the angle you have to use . You had different remote controls for different devices .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , different remote controls ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "perhaps you can integrate them or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh for the use of different uh devices {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Your stereo and your T_V_",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and uh . Perhaps that's an idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but then again you you still have a lot of buttons ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right . And which you don't use .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but you could uh I thin uh there's a possibility to g uh to uh to put those buttons uh behind some uh kind of uh protection",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Flap",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so that if y y you only get to see them when you need 'em .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah . Yeah , okay , that's possible ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's possible , so that you only get the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but it'll get very big the the remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . You should just give it to {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No n n no , just {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Uh for example you got th uh the same size uh remote control you use everyday , but um {vocalsound} the usual buttons such as uh um {vocalsound} zapping uh as you call it in Dutch . Uh and the volume control uh are only the only possible buttons uh to use directly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Changing channel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or uh {vocalsound} the numbers , of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {gap} numbers .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh not uh the buttons used to search on the the channels on your television .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "On and off .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You only use those uh the first time , or .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So . Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "play , pause , stop .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . So maybe a a minimalist design , the least uh possible amount uh of buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . But you should make sure that you have every button they need on it . Because uh things for uh teletext , I dunno uh , {vocalsound} w",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh teletext .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "what's the name ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So you don't want to bother people with uh loads of buttons , but on the other hand they need many buttons",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so they don't have to get out of their seat .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because I think a market will be all kind of people . Elderly p el elderly , young people , so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But if if it's if it's international you should uh look in {disfmarker} think in Britain they have uh different things they can do with the T_V_ , or so uh that you can choose what you want to see . I dunno if you should uh take that in consideration , or that you just should aim for the normal T_V_s",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I I understand .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think that's the better one ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And the B_B_C_ {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because {disfmarker} I think if you you're going to target a lot of people and the whole world and only Britain then I think the cost will uh rise higher than the twelve fifty , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes {gap} . Yeah , I don't know if the they have that anywhere else , though .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think the aim is better to use uh the whole world and Britain , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we can leave that {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "When I think of it uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Not that much .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think the main idea uh of this remote remote control is uh to make it user friendly . So uh I think uh when p uh when uh the customers will buy this remote control , they already have uh the remote control which uh companies uh uh with uh the the standards uh remote control with which comes uh with the television .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Standard deliver .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it only has to have uh the most used buttons . You don't have to integrate the buttons to search the channels on your television .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "In those {disfmarker} in that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but then you have to to find your other remote control if you want to search .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , th it {vocalsound} it's {disfmarker} I think that's not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but I {disfmarker} but it is impossible to uh to accommodate uh accommodate uh all the buttons on the s on the difference {disfmarker} different televisions sets on one remote control . It's impossible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because uh for example Sony television uh has the opportunity to s to make uh uh to make it possible for {disfmarker} to see on one side of the screen uh teletext , and on the other side uh just n uh regular television . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's uh {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think n m n most televisions nowadays do this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh they don't use the same signal , uh on remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well not everywhere .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So {gap} I think numerals .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because you can't use a Panasonic uh remote control on a on a Philips television .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but then you have to choose the {disfmarker} always with r universal remotes you have to choose the code .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can choose the code {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay . Okay . Okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can use which which type of television you have . That's no problem . But I think like the two pages on the same screen , like teletext and normal television , that's that's nowadays standard , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {vocalsound} uh I think that most people uh th uh will buy the remote control because {vocalsound} because uh the first {disfmarker} they lost the one they lost first one",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Simplicity .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or the first one is broken ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so uh uh perhaps they have a got a an older television ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so that option is not {vocalsound} uh optional for those uh people .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah g available .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But the people have a new television ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and c if you look into the future , then they want {disfmarker} will want the button , if their thing is broke .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we should take that in consideration .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Okay , well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "any more ideas ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh mm , no .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Guess not .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Things'll come up .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah well we have some time . Let's see what more I have to tell you . I don't think there is much left . Nope . We're starting to close . Um our next meeting uh will start {disfmarker} well we're a little bit early , but our next meeting will start in in thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "In the meantime uh there's time for some uh individual actions . Um , as you can see , the different roles have uh different tasks . And there's a ping .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is it my laptop ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Stop the meeting now {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah meeting will close in five minutes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that's good , five minutes and uh the meeting's over , uh right on schedule .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um the Marketing Expert will uh will take a look at the user requirement specification . The User Interface Designer will work out the technical functions design . And this was the Interface Designer ? Or the Interaction Designer .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or what was it , I_D_ ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No interface .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Interface .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Interface Designer , okay , first guess was right . Uh will take a look at the the working design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the Industrial Designer will take a look at the working design ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and the in uh usability interaction {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Industrial Designer , okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "sorry . {vocalsound} Let's just use the acronyms . Um and of course specific instructions uh will be sent to you uh through your personal coach .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} So I should look at uh what you should be able to do with the remote , or uh , or how {disfmarker} I don't really {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh well those instructions will be uh in the email you will receive uh shortly , I hope . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right . Alright . {vocalsound} Me too . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And of course you have your own uh expertise .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well uh that was what I had to say .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh are there any more questions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No ? Okay well I think then we have to head uh back to our offices and uh start working .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I have one question .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , one question ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Where does it says we have to make a remote , because I presumed {disfmarker} {gap} She didn't know who . Okay , no {vocalsound} , no problem .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} No problem . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we're still going {gap} {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No problem . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well I expect everything will be much clearer with the instructions we will receive uh shortly .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay well uh see you all in about thirty minutes , then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alrighty . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3005b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"2",
"108"
]
],
"topic": "Self-introduction and team building"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"109",
"169"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion on product finance issue"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"170",
"249"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion of background information about the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"250",
"280"
]
],
"topic": "Brief introduction to the next meeting"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager began functional design meeting with reviewed last meeting and looked at new project requirements. The group did a presentation and made discussion about conceptual remote control design. They decided to use the LCD screen in the design as it was popular for the market and hard to damage. Because of the high price of LCD, the group put up a backup design with buttons instead of LCD as a solution. After group discussion, remote control would be designed with buttons shape and functions such as channels selection and speech recognition.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer designed remote control with handy size and made a connection with chips under the plastic of rubber button. Chip transmitted signal by Morse code which made infra-red lights signal could be sent to the TV. Industrial Designer prefered remote control with various colours so that it would be easy to use. On the other hand, Industrial Designer thought rubber buttons were easy to damage so they could make several designs.",
"query": "Summarize Industrial Designer's desire about remote control working design.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"33",
"62"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer expressed initial working design about remote control. User Interface suggested that remote control should be user friendly with not too much but clear buttons. Marketing showed us data about functional requirement remote control. Project Manager said that the new requirement about remote control was teletext should be paid less attention as it was outdated. Future customers' age should be focused on forty plus and new design should include corporate colour and slogan.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about the functional Remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"33",
"120"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to data, Marketing thought that younger people were more interested in features like LCD screen and speech recognition. However, older people didn't care about features so much and spent more money on remote control than younger people. Findings also showed that fifty percent of users lost remote control so bigger is better than smaller about remote control. Marketing expressed that volume button and channel button were the most important buttons so they should be found easily.",
"query": "What did Marketing think about functional requirements about remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"79",
"105"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager said that remote control should only work with TV. Marketing thought the basics should be volume, channel and one till two zero numbers. Users Interface suggested remote control should with a button you can change from one number to two numbers.",
"query": "What function did the group think should be on the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"121",
"170"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manage thought they should reach a market with customers that were younger than forty as they already had forty plus customers. Marketing suggested it should be sixteen to forty-five as they like the LCD screen most.",
"query": "What was the main target age about remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"171",
"195"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer thought if young people interested in LCD Team should make them. User Interface thought old people's need should be taken into consideration. Like if old people could use an LCD screen. Marketing insisted market share for younger people is higher than older people so they should use LCD screens. Meanwhile, Marketing said if the LCD screen cost too much then they should change to rubber buttons. Project Manager agreed and hoped LCD would not be too expensive as they produced a lot.",
"query": "What did the group think about the LCD screen on the new remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"219",
"272"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning , again .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One question .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Send .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Choose a number ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Submit . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yep yep yep yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "All set ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Good . Okay . Let's see what we can find here . Okay . A very warm welcome again to everyone .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um here we are already at our uh functional design meeting . Um and this is what we are going to do . The opening , which we are doing now , um and the special note , I'm project manager but on the meetings I'm also the secretary , which means I will make uh minutes as I did of the previous meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh I also put these as fast as possible in the uh project folder , so you can see them and review what we have discussed . Um if I'm right , there are three presentations , I guess each one of you has prepared one ? Good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And um we will also take a look at new project requirements , um if you haven't heard about them yet . And then of course we have to take a decision on the remote control functions and we have some more time , forty minutes . But I think we will need it . Um well I don't know who wants to go first with his presentation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'll go first . Okay . I'll go first yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can go first , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , shall I go first with the users ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker} well okay no problem . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is there an order ? I haven't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "everybody already has his presentation ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ja precies , ja precies , ja precies",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} so you can adjust it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So . Huh ? Okay , um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And one question , uh your name Denni , is it with a",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "E_I_E_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I_E_ {disfmarker} E_I_E_ , okay . Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , um I wanted to explain the working design of the remote control . It's possibly very handy if you want to uh design one of those . Um {vocalsound} well so it basically works uh as I uh uh r wrote down uh in this uh little uh summary . Uh when you press a button , {vocalsound} uh that's when you do pr for example when you uh want to turn up the volume , um a little connection is made uh the the rubber uh {vocalsound} button just presses on a",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "on a little print plate uh which uh makes uh uh {vocalsound} a connection that uh gives the chips , uh which is uh mounted beneath those uh that plastic of a rubber button . Uh senses that a connection has been made , and know and knows what button you pressed , becau uh for example the the volume up or volume down button . Um uh the the chip uh makes a Morse code uh like uh signal which uh then is si uh signalled {vocalsound} to uh several transistors which makes uh which sends the signal to a little let . You know what a let is ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} And that makes uh the the infra-red lights signal which is sent to the television set . Uh which has a sensor in it to uh sense uh the signal of the infra-red . That's basically uh how it works . Um the findings uh uh that I found uh searching up some uh detailed information about the remote controls , are that uh they are very easy to produce , uh it is pis uh it's possible to uh make them in mass production because it is as eas it is as easy as uh printing a page , uh just uh fibreglass plate um is b uh is uh covered with uh some uh coatings and uh uh {vocalsound} and chips .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh and the technology's already available , we don't have to find out how remote controls uh have to work or uh how that how uh to make some chips that are possible to uh to to transmit those uh signals . Uh I made a little uh uh animation of {vocalsound} about how a tran our uh remote controller works .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Animation . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} we tel",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There is something turning .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "There .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's a little bug it's in the in the smart board . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . Uh well",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the sub-component , I suppose that you understand what a sub-component is , is f in this example it's the button . Uh when it is pressed down , um , the switch is ter is uh is switched on , so with uh the wire is sent to the to the chip in uh co-operation with the battery of course , because to make uh a a signal possible you have to have some sort of uh li uh a d ad uh electronic uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Infrared light .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , uh , okay . Um w after it's being composed by the chip uh the signal uh is transported uh to the infra-red bulb , and from there it signals a Morse code-like signal to the to the b to the bulb in uh in the television set . Okay . S Uh I wrote down some personal preferences about uh the remote control . Of course it is very handy if the remote control is hand held , so you don't have to uh uh wind it up or something , or just is it's it's very light to uh to make uh to use it . Uh I personally uh pref prefer that uh it would be p uh come available in the various colours , and uh easy to use buttons . But I suppose that the one of the other team members uh uh thought of that uh too . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I've got it there too . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And it is possible for several designs and um easy to use b uh sorry , easy to use buttons . Perhaps soft touch , uh touch screen uh buttons because uh the rubber buttons are always uh uh they uh slightly uh they can be slightly damaged ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh so the numbers on the buttons are not possible uh to read anymore . And uh well as I said uh before th uh we can uh make several designs . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well , that's my contribution to this meeting , and uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "To this meeting . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "two of these this meeting . So .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Shall I go uh next ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Please .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Smoking .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well uh , my name's {gap} , and I looked at uh technical functions design of the remote . Uh I did this by uh looking at examples of other remote controls , of how they uh they look , and information from the web that I found . Um well what I found was that uh th the actual use of the remote control is to send messages to television set , how you uh d what you described uh just early . And this can be all sorts of medsa messages , turn it on , turn it off , uh change the channel , adjust volume , that kind of thing . Uh play video , teletext , but also t uh play C_D_ if you use it your C_D_ player the remote control will that one . There are some uh examples of remote controls . You can see they are very different . The one has got all the functions that you could possibly need and an lot of uh buttons etcetera . And the other is uh more user friendly , little with big buttons . And uh not n all the the the the stuff you can do with it , but uh the the essential stuff is there . Um {vocalsound} I guess you could better y you should look at a a user centred uh approach , because the customers have to use them and and if they don't think it's usable they won't uh buy it . A lot of buttons they may think from I don't need s as much as that . Uh , well perf personal preferences is is uh a simple remote , with uh the basic functions that you can need that you could use . But uh keep in mind the new functions of T_V_ what we discussed earlier , split screen and uh is that a function that you should have ? Because all the T_V_s will have them . Or because of only a few and isn't really necessary . And then uh make it {disfmarker} I would make so that you can could uh use it on more than one appliance . If you have one that uh uh does with the vi the the video , it could also work with uh with the stereo , because play is play and stop stop and that sort of thing . The shu c you could reuse the buttons so that you don't have to have a lot of buttons for uh anything . And it should be a user friendly , clear buttons , and not too much . And that is my presentation .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . Check . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You must still have it open .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Kijke {gap} 'Kay , so . {vocalsound} We're going to j discuss the functional requirements of the remote , that m that means that functions user n want to have on the remote control , or just {disfmarker} Yeah , and the users , actually .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The methods I I prefer is we're going to look which section of the users we are going to focus a l on more . Are the younger people going to buy the remote control or the elderly people ? And then {disfmarker} tho that section we're going to focus and adjust the remote more to that section than the whole user section . Okay . Some data . Younger people , from sixteen to thir forty five um years are more interested in fj features like L_C_D_ screens , speech recognition e etcetera . And we possess about two third of the market from in that range of age . The elderly people , from forty five years to sixty five years are not that much interested in features , and we possess less than two third , that's two fifth , of the market share in that area . {gap} Goed so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . Findings . Fifty percent of the users lose their remote often .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we don't have to make it very small , like uh like a mobile phone or something , but some somewhat bi bigger than small , so you don't lose it that much anymore . {vocalsound} Seventy five percent of the users also find it ugly ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and fif seventy five of the users zap a lot , so the buttons sh should be that small , or shouldn't be that complex because we have to search for the buttons , which one are you going to use . Next . Important issues about the remote . I think it would be better with a personal reference , but okay . Remote control has to have to have a low power usage , because s w seventy five percent of the users only zap one time an hour , so the power usage is also one one time an hour , or so , with a high power usage we would use a lot of but batteries . The volume button and the channel buttons are the two most important buttons on the remote control , so those {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} those have to h be find very easily . And have to be somewhat like bigger etcetera . It has also be {disfmarker} have to find easily when the label is gone . My colleague also announced it that labels should be scratched off",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or would be s uh {gap} senden {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay . {vocalsound} So uh if that's k uh if that's the problem , you also have to find it easily on the remote . Buttons . Like what all colleagues said , have to have to be minimalized . or should be covered , or in L_C_D_ screen . L_C_D_ screen is easy because we have the L_C_D_ screen , we have the various options . Put one option and then you have the all the buttons of that options , so the other options would be gone . And you don't see the buttons . So L_C_D_ screens should be easy , but an L_C_D_ screen , the problem with the L_ sc L_C_D_ screen is that elderly people fr from forty five to for sixty five years don't use the L_C_D_ screen a lot . So we have to that keep that in mind that if you're going to implement L_C_D_ screen , you don't have to make it that hard to learn or to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh L_C_D_ screen as in uh touch screen ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , touch screen , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The last but not least , younger people are more critical about the features . Because they use the remote control often more often , and are more technical than the ol older people . And the older people spend more money , and easily on a remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we have to keep in mind to to focus not a lot {disfmarker} not that much on the younger pep younger people , but also somewhat on the elderly people . And on my personal preferences , I don't have any mo more time to come with that ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but like I said , L_C_D_ screen is easily to use",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because you have {disfmarker} you can implement a lot of buttons in one remote with not that much buttons . And it should be easy to use . Especially the volume buttons , the channel buttes buttons and the number buttons to zap through the channels . And that is it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh right . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um , well thank you all , huh . {vocalsound} I dunno uh did everyone receive an email with uh the new project requirements ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No . Res I did not .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ? Well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps the rest ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "then I think it's a good thing that I made a separate slide of them",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ja , {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so you can all read them . Oh , well not in this presentation . Hmm",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Should be in there . Well , I can tell you them uh from my laptop . Um teletext does {disfmarker} has become outdated since the popularity of the internet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So that's uh the first thing we I think we should pay less attention to uh teletext . Uh the remote control should only be used for the television , otherwise the project becomes more complex , which endangers the time to market , and of course would make it more costly , I think . Um our current customers are within the age group of forty plus , and new product should reach a new market with customers that are younger than forty , and you talked about that before . And uh a last point , but also very important , our corporate image should stay recognisable in our products , which means that our uh corporate colour and slogan must be implemented in the new design . So we have to keep that in mind . Um well uh according to our agenda it's then time to take a decision on the remote control functions . So , who has any idea about what should be on it , and what shouldn't ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well you said it should only uh work with one appliance ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Be television .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or with one uh d che only the T_V_ ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Only be used for television .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the video also , or not uh ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well it says only for television here , huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Only the television .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Alright . Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Makes it a lot easier , huh ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So yeah , then you can yeah . Requirements , no ? Functions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then it should have uh on , off ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Standby options ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the basics then by a volume , channel , one till two zero numbers on it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah ? Uh yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And per perhaps uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "oh teletext doesn't have to be ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um other functions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well uh uh yes yes s sh A button where you can uh change from one number to two numbers .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah I had {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Two s two two digits ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Can you {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "oh okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Don't know if that's got a name ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I understand what you mean . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's I think it's easy to implement a button with a s s what which especially do that , because some T_V_s , if you press the t one and then the two , it be between five secs it make twelve ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It makes it twelve , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . S",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Indeed . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and that's that's not relaxed",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , not really {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "to user .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And and there are some models that don't uh accommodate that function . So",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "d uh wh the Philip's television makes it possible in that indeed to uh press one and then two to make uh the uh tj to reach channel twelve .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that it {vocalsound} easy and fast .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But uh all the television makes uh use of those button where you first press that button and then press two digits to uh to get",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , so you should have that one on .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah , think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Our main targets' age are ? were ? Forty five plus , or ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mute misschien also .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "new product should reach a market with customers that are younger than forty , and now we have current customers uh of forty plus .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Forties , okay because {vocalsound} because younger people as Uh younger people have now , sixteen till to twenty five age , are f eighty one percent interested in L_C_D_ screen . From twenty six to thirty five have sixty six percent , and thirty six to forty five , fifty five percent , so I think to um {disfmarker} Because on most recog remote controls um the print plate will be broken how much , two years . You have to press h very hard to go to the next channel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With the L_C_D_ screen it's easier because you only have to wipe the screen to uh {disfmarker} for fingerprint ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we we could yeah . But I think that uh that collides with our mission to make it very cheap .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then you can use it again .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because L_C_D_ screens are very expensive .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "An",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A touch screen uh probably uh even more .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but a {disfmarker} you don't know {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "true , true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh {disfmarker} Well um is it possible to make an L_C_D_ screen uh , how was the information ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it only says that this perce percentage like L_C_D_ screen . Because , yeah and it says that younger age between sixteen and forty five highly interesting features more critical .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So perhaps we should we should focus on that L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And if the only f Yeah , because our target is sixteen to forty five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , do you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but uh will we not uh exceed our uh our uh production uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you don't know how much it costs . Yeah , you don't know how much it costs , the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is it possible to find out , anyway ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , I don't have any costs here ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You know ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I only have percentages .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But if you would do an L_C_D_ screen do we have don don't you have any buttons ? Or because if it only directs at the T_V_ , then you only have uh I don't know what you want to do with the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , an L_C_D_ screen's just like uh like a drawn here . Um just uh displays several buttons ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "for example um if you wanted the minimal uh use b uh buttons , such as channel and volume , you just h uh displays four buttons on the screen",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh right , so you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and it's possible to p uh press them down , just like a touch screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , yeah alright . So you can adjust which buttons you want on that s screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we can make it possible to do that , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , if you want to adjust , like for example , adjust the audio settings , you press audio on the touchscreen",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and you get the buttons for audio settings ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah alright , oh right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so the other buttons are gone .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we're going for an L_C_D_ screen ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Would be yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's the most easier thing ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's my uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And hoping that when we produce a lot it won't be too expensive .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well we had twelve fifty , I guess , for uh production ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Twelve fifty .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Any guesses ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I suppose wi if the mar if our um {vocalsound} if the i if the young people are interested in L_C_D_ screens , we should make 'em .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Highly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And if that is our d uh market share to uh and our goal to uh deliver those uh remote controls {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} But he also said that we should not only focus on the younger people , but also on the older , and will they use it if it only has an L_C_D_ screen ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker} Um , s forty six to forty five , thirty three percent , and sixty fifty six to sixty five twelve percent .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , so still a little bit people {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But our our our what's it , project requirements are the new products should be reached for new markets , to customers that are younger than forty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's right . But you don't want to alienate the other uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , that not now , but , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But if they also buy it then it's alright . I guess .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but market share fro for for forty years and younger is higher than that of sixty five and younger .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so L_C_D_ it is ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "An Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . It's treasure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And what else ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I hope we uh h and let's hope to reach those uh those sales .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , i i if it {disfmarker} Yeah , if it costs {disfmarker} gets too much , too expensive , then yeah , we should be sticking to rubber buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , can you um uh s I think that that they will send you some information about uh the cost of L_C_D_ uh screens .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "N nothing , no costs at all .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But perhaps later ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh so if you uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so if you uh you receive an email about that , uh can you post it in the {disfmarker} or shouldn't we post that in uh our projects mail uh folder .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , in {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think that should yeah {disfmarker} I think we all get the costs of everything .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because you are the the Marketing uh Expert .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , I'll I'll post it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well perhaps we should have a backup plan that we would use buttons if it's uh {vocalsound} too expensive .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . But for now it's L_C_D_ . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , L_C_D_ , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then you have the seventy five percent of users find it r ugly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The L_C_D_ ? Oh that's a bit of a problem . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and eighty percent of the users would spend more money with a when a remote would look fancy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , that's a bit of a problem .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Tha i l i it'll look fancy with L_C_D_ screen . {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's looks fancy one yeah , of L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but they don't they don't like it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "They think it's ugly . When it has an L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , just a {disfmarker} the plain remotes , not not specific L_C_D_ remotes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , alright , I thought that you said that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and maybe you can make something fancy out of an L_C_D_ remote ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because it's new , as far as I know . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then not {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then you have the other thing , that seventy five percent zap a lot , but that's not a f question with the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Only thing you have to do is wipe the screen off once each time , to get all the fingerprints off it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Okay ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , what else does our remote need ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A mute button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mute button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think . And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The most important things on a f on an on an uh remote control are channel selection , volume con selection ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and power s power usage .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And a teletext , but that is not of the question .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} But shouldn't you put a button of {disfmarker} for teletext on the {disfmarker} for the people who want to use it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Other things are {disfmarker} Sorry ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Remembering we have got a big remote that you have to fill . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it could be . Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah , and we could make an a a separate menu on the L_C_D_ uh screen for teletext .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , teletext .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And there's also a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And other other less important things are screen settings , audio settings , and channel settings ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they are less important , but I think they should be there ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Less important .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or not ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , should be there ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A sh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but not press {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but in a sub sub-menu or something like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sub-menu , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I think it's also important to uh make it possible to um how do you call it in English , uh , to not use batteries , and use ac uh bat uh {gap} batteries to uh to be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like with a with a mouse , you have not , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah yeah sure . Indeed . So uh you can mount uh the the the uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , in a breath it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh the remote control to um",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Charted .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We should think of the twelve fifty we have",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "to refill the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know how much that's going to uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but we don't we don't have any costs now ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because i uh when you get an L_C_D_ screen , you run it on batteries ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the batteries will be uh empty very soon , very fast .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah e e power supply is one of the most important things .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You should {disfmarker} Perhaps you should be able to to switch the control off .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If you have an L_C_D_ screen that's burns all the time I dunno .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You shouldn't on and off because that's ver extra , that you have t first you have to turn the remote on , and then you can uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think it's it's not that easy because I don't think people will like it who who uh that you have to turn it on first and then use it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nee that's that's uh yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so I think it's better when th the T_V_ shuts down , the remote shuts down .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But then you can't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And go to standby mode when you don't use it ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah au automac matically , that it {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , automatically . After two minutes or three minutes , something like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . After two minutes , yeah two three minutes , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And maybe a low battery indicator ? On the screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And then b that uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "before an hour when its get again gets empty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then you have plenty of time to recharge it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "of put it in a recharger . Charger .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we are going for the for the recharger .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , if it's {gap} . Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If it's sensible . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , because when you're watching T_V_ , you're zapping and you have to put it in a recharger ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , b when the batteries are low {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and I don't think it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "when you when you're done with s uh w uh watching your television , you have to put it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , but then we have to be sure that the the the the batteries go {vocalsound} hours , six hours , five , six hours , then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But you'll also forget to put it in ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure , of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because you throw it on the couch",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "then you have a problem .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and you don't remember .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you also forget to buy batteries ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then you can you can't use it ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or we have to be sure that the batteries last couple of days when they're recharged .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well I think the batteries should should w should work a lot longer than a couple of days ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or not ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah because you have b",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Cause {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but you have L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "High power usage .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "High power user cell , i uh it should be uh a standard move to to put your remote control in the charger when you're done watching television ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's also a a a great advantage because you can't lose it anymore . Because you are obliged to uh put it in the charger and not to uh leave it in a couch uh between some cushions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "True . Yeah . Yeah . True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Right . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you made a point there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But then you also have to s have somewhere where you can put a remo recharger near your couch",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , also .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because otherwise you have to walk a long way when you twoft want to turn on the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , otherwise all your {disfmarker} yeah . Just a small device {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think everything has it for and {disfmarker} I guess .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it hasn't {disfmarker} It doesn't have to be big .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Plug it in , that's it . Yeah , like a {disfmarker} like telephone charger or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah just just a cable , or a even a a a a a charger where you can mount it on . Something like that ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "just u",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well I've",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It has to be easy to use also , or things . Uh market share , speaker re speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you have some more",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "points .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Functional designs uh for the elderly uh you could make it possible to enlarge the screen ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so make it possible to not uh display uh a button at ten points",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Also .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well I think that this should be standard . Large button {disfmarker} large buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but it is uh one of the functions you have to uh specify .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because we can look at uh uh perhaps uh forty buttons at a screen , but the elderly only look at two buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you said something about speech recognition ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Speech recognition ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it says also {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Twelve Euro",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "twelve fifty , twelve fifty . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "twelve Euro fifty .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Twelve . That's an {disfmarker} also ninety one percent sixteen to twenty five , twenty six to thirty five years , seventy six percent , and thirty six to forty five , thirty five percent .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it's pretty big .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , spread it by a big market .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But then I I I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Even bigger than for L_C_D_ . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} W I know let's do a speech . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "let's leave out all the remote controls and just put a {vocalsound} microphone on top of the television to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Ninety . Twenty five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can clap or something . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} channel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Turn volume up .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hey , that that's an idea . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now you shouldn't say the wrong thing , I dunno {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that should {disfmarker} it has to be remote control , not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} twelve .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But they want to talk into the remo remote control , or something ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sure why not why not {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is this only would you would you pay more for speech recognition in a remote control . It's the only thing it says .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , but do we want to implement that , or ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think an L_C_D_ screen {vocalsound} should be suf sufficient .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But when you look at the percentages {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it says a lot , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Speech recognition scores even higher , huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps the options should be uh {disfmarker} Why not ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why not ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "maybe because of the cost , but uh nobody knows uh how much uh it will cost uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Let's hope uh to have some uh d",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I know {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No I think I think it's better to have L_ L_C_D_ screen , because in the area of tw thirty six to forty five , we have about thirty percent of the market share in in our hands , and fifty five of those people want L_C_D_ screen and thirty five want speech recognition . So I think it's better to keep it with L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But would it be useful to imple implement both ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On one remote ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , if the costs al allow it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I dunno .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know if that can be done with the cost of twelve fifty .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nee .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "With that uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If it should be done , if it could be done , I won't matter . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We should do it . Yeah . Sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but how would you like to implement that , that you say volume up , and then it goes up ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Certain systems already exist , I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then you also have to have different languages if we go international . Then uh it's y {vocalsound} it's yours to do a French and Dutch and English",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "True , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But that should also be with f should be also with L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This should be uh accommodated with some software , uh , uh . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because then I think in Chinese is different written , volume is different written than um Swahili or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's right . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right . Swahili . Swahili .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you can use icons for the",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "a speaker and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ja , well possible .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Indeed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But if that's better than language for the for the remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah yeah yeah {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So we want to uh yeah it's international uh okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then it's {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , what else ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , no speech recognition ? Or {disfmarker} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , if it could be done , we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Y it should be done . If it could be done , should be done .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we have to keep {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and then we have different languages .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that should be uh anything matters .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's not so difficult at all ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , just make a separate remote for each uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because I already use on several voice operated systems , and they are all possible to uh not all , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , you sh you should to adjust the thing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's difficult . Every language of dialects {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's very differen difficult .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you have to speak the {disfmarker} so that it can understand .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think it can't be implemented , but maybe {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You could use that n as an option , if you have money left , or something . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , 's an option , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure , indeed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Fifty Euro cents .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Let's do speech .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we only do this when we have enough money left .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well I've written down an an on or off button , volume selection , channel selection , uh the digits from one to zero , huh . Um {disfmarker} or from zero to nine . Uh a digits button to switch uh between one and two digits , mute button , a separate menu for teletext , a battery indicator . Um we're going to use a docking station and uh probably L_C_D_ and if there's enough money , speech recognition . And uh the possibility to uh enlarge buttons or to have large buttons",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "in general .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I {vocalsound} With uh teletext if {disfmarker} it wasn't ver very important , it was but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You also now have colours . I don't know if we should implement that . Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Curved ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "when you press the red button , you go to page one hundred two , and when you press the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know if we should implement that ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because it says that teletext not really important ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S Shortcuts . Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but yeah , the shortcut , and you can't go to sport .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we should {disfmarker} we could that {disfmarker} we could also implement a audio settings , screen settings and channel settings , but as sub-menus .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "D Mainly if you turn the uh remote control on , you have to u you have to see from one till zero , channel and volume . And if you want to use teletext screen or audio , then you can press it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sh Yeah , just just sub-menu . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It should be available but not",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Cause it should be there .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not directly uh available .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "not {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so not too much teletext support , but in a separate menu , and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So actually it is there but it's just not r ready there .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but s",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Directly available .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So does it confuse uh the user ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You'll have to search for it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They'd have to be easy to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh . I'll search um .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If you want to use teletext , you can push the teletext button and then the options uh become available .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , that's a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The sign of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but no more buttons or functions , or ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I guess not .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , no . What else can you do with a television ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We've got anon",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Aren't we forgetting something very important ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Have got got two examples here , but I don't think there's anything we're missing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh play , pause , doesn't n need to be there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , we don't have the video orders {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , so this is your presentation . We could check the other remote controls with technical functions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you could look here all the the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Which ones were yours ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh th th th th I don't know , technical functions .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Techni",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} They're a bit small , you can {disfmarker} we should stretch them , because {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ping .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ja ja ja ja ja . Technical functions . Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I guess we've got them all .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh I think I go to have volume , mute but I {disfmarker} Yeah {gap} . Very slow . Yeah , the zoom buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And for a T_V_ ? Can you zoom in a T_V_ ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , b wide screen , high screen , different things you have ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or that you can put 'em on uh on on wide and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah different uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But that should also be a sub then , a sub uh menu thing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Menu .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it should be available , but then in separate screen settings or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so we should also implement se screen settings .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , screen settings , audio settings , teletext settings you have .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh right . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Channel settings .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so you can program the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So those four , and of course the main .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so the first you see the main , and the other ones you can uh go to uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . Like tap screens or something",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or , I dunno .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I hope we can do this . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Something {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "There are a lot of options depending uh on what kind of television you got .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , if uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Cause if you don't got a wide screen television you don't need the uh the screen settings",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , you don't yu a no you then you don't no ni don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh for uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "then you don't use it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and if the television does not support such uh operations",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We don't have to use that top . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So you leave it alone .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Or it could be possible to have a a standard version of the remote , an expanded version .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . And do we want them in different colours , or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And and the buttons , should they have colours ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Colours . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Colours I think the main colour of the remote control is uh the colour of the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh but we don't have any buttons . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I Because we don't want a lot a devi yeah a device self s g",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , then defines itself . Because uh how many percent ? Eighty percent ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "They think it's ugly , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Would spend more money if it looks fancy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so use uh very uh lot of peo {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps you can uh make adjustable fronts , like with the telephones {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Adjust with phones , yes {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But I don't think that uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} Twelve Euro fifty . Well , make it available in different colours , you mean ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Red , white , blue , black . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And a see-through uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Rasta colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Grey .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sea view , yes , Simpson's versions and {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , see through version . Yeah . If you press a button , it turns green .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Leave . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that's the",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A disco version .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "signal for las final five minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Five minutes ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um so I have uh the things I just read . Um then we have uh separate menus for teletext , screen settings , audio settings , and what else ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Channel settings ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Channel settings .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you can program the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps you should you'd throw them on on in one pile . So , options , and then you sub them .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Could be possible .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise you have all those teletext , perhaps teletext not ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or like uh you have a menu button , you press {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , we said teletext also a separate menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , or otherwise you have a menu button , press menu then you have uh main uh menu search uh all the all the settings .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but we can work that out later , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , no problem . Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we're having a a general menu with the most used functions , uh teletext , screen settings , audio settings , channel settings , and maybe there are options for the remote itself ? Like uh large icons or small icons",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and I don't know what else ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think b because we don't have a lot of buttons on the one screen ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or do we have any buttons ? On the remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think the buttons {disfmarker} Yeah , but but or like you have",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Which one ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you only have channel button or volume button . Those buttons you can you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but on the L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But that's also in the L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Right , yeah , okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we don't have any normal buttons",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , th",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , no normal buttons , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe only the on and o on and off button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yet on and off is p is perhaps you kno",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But we don't need a special {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh not button {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I don't think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we don't need a special options menu for the remote itself .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm , no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh well , you should be able to set which T_V_ you have . If you have {disfmarker} if you have uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure , of course you need uh a settings button , uh or a settings option for the remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But isn't idea to use uh uh what you said , uh normal on and off button for the T_V_ , that you don't have to use a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No no no , because we we discussed that you could charge it , otherwise is {disfmarker} it it jumps to stand-by mode automatically .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but but not for the remote but for the T_V_ , that you use {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but a T_V_ of course , th that's the {disfmarker} I think that's a best thing is that to implement that one in the menu with the volume and channel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But a not as normal button , in the L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well maybe there should be a separate button apart from the L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because you can't turn it on when the L_C_D_ is off . So how do you turn the thing on ? There has to be a on button on the remote ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No you just tap I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just tap it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you tap .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Tap the thing . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Touch screen , yeah then it's turn {disfmarker} turn off , turn on .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then the television is on also , or just the remote ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , just the remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A television don't have to be on , that one you can {vocalsound} press on ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it should be in standby mode , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah stand-by , then press on remote , press on and then T_V_ should be available . Or not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah a yeah . I don't know whether it's handy to have a n a normal on button , a r just uh rubber uh for for T_V_ ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Separate .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so you can turn it on and then you can choose the channel . Otherwise you {disfmarker} I don't know whether or not that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A A A normal button on the remote control ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . To turn it on .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or norm ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Of or you should put it in the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , because uh when you touch the L_C_D_ screen when it is in standby mode , it should pop on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I have ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Wh uh why would it be a a need to have a normal button ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well I I guess if you use the L_C_D_ screen , you first have to search where is the on button , then you uh you you then turn it , and then the T_V_ goes on . But if you have a normal on button on the on the remote , then you do the on , and then you search the channel which you want .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I think the re the remote control , if you press tap the screen , it always should jump to the screen which has the volume button , channel button , and of course of also the on and off button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it looks a lot more fancy if you use uh if you don't have any buttons on the s on on remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so too . Otherwise y wet e k Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So actually we're going to create a a button-less uh remote . No buttons at all .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well that's might be a unique selling point , huh for a remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} If we can afford it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well I guess we have to",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh , okay {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , if we can afford it . Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "postpone further discussion to uh our next meeting , because we're running out of time . Um for now , we're having a lunch break ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} and then there will be uh half an hour for the uh next share of individual work . I will uh write uh minutes , if I can create them out of this . And uh put them in the the project documents uh folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And here are the individual actions for the for the other roles . And of course specific instructions will be sent to you again by your uh personal coach .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Luckily as we are . Okay , well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "thank you very much , for now ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh have a nice lunch , huh ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Lunch . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Food . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Should we put this back in our rooms , or uh ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3005c | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"2",
"330"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation about components design, interface design and watch trend of remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"331",
"461"
]
],
"topic": "Energy and Material design about remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"462",
"693"
]
],
"topic": "User Interface design about remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"694",
"770"
]
],
"topic": "Standard colour about remote control design"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager began a conceptual design meeting with the group, they discussed the components design, interface design at first. In the presentation, material, colour, type and supplement were referred. Then marketing shared the watch trend over the past and future, and thought young and old people's different tastes should be taken into consideration when designed. After that, the group made a discussion about the remote control concept. The final decision about remote control was made by a round shape and green colour with speech recognition and LCD screen to appeal to the target population.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer expressed a desire to make remote control from rubber and LCD touch screen. Industrial Designer designed a remote control chargeable with a mount station instead of plugging it. In addition, User Interface emphasized that the remote control should not only have an LCD screen, but also some necessary buttons. Marketing introduced watch trends about colours, shapes and material of remote control from the past years. Based on the analysis of marketing, the group did a discussion about target people and made initial design decisions.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about the remote control concept?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"12",
"304"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface thought speech recognition function was useful because people always lost remote control. It would be easy to find with a microphone in the remote. The basic design of remote control would include volume and program icon, buttons move and mute, recognisable and scroll function in the curvy shape. This design would mainly be toward young people.",
"query": "Summarize User Interface's opinion about remote control design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"67",
"114"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing introduced watch trends in shapes, colours, material and functions from the past years. In Marketing's data, young people prefered fruity colours, round shapes and soft material. In contrast, elderly people liked dark colours, square shapes with round edges and hard material.",
"query": "What was Marketing's conclusion about the remote control watch trend?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"123",
"151"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface designed position of normal and usual buttons such as plus, minus, sound and program. Project Manager suggested the microphone was a special point so it should be placed visibly. Then User Interface decided to put the microphone in a company logo. Marketing thought scroll was convenient, Industrial Designer agreed and designed scroll on the side. Project Manager thought remote control would be fancier with scroll.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about User Interface design about remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"465",
"685"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing thought it was easy with a microphone on the remote control so that it was easy to find. User Interface agreed and thought it was better to put the microphone in a corner. Industrial Designer thought no matter where the microphone was, it would not be visible. So where to place didn't matter. Project Manager thought the microphone should be in an important position to see because it was a special selling point of remote control.",
"query": "What did the group think about microphone position on the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"575",
"616"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "At first marketing thought scroll was not as handy as buttons but Industrial Designer placed the scroll on the side and made it very handy to scroll down. In addition, Industrial Designer thought scroll could control the menu even if the remote control did not fit the screen. User Interface said young people were interested in scrolling. Project Manager thought scroll would make remote control fancier as it was interesting.",
"query": "What discussion did the group make about scroll on the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"653",
"692"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay , welcome everyone to our next meeting . I'm busy writing and busy leading the meeting , but um I've prepared a little presentation once again um or at least an agenda I think uh the biggest part of the presentation will be uh on your side . Um we are here at the conceptual design meeting , which is hereby opened . Um once again I will try to uh write some minutes which I just from the previous meeting uh placed inside our project folder , which was quite some typing . Um today we once again have uh three presentations , if I'm right , and after that we will take a decision on the remote control concepts . And just as the last time we have forty minutes to accomplish that . Okay , well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'd say let's start with the first presentation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um in the same order as last time ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "W sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well , take it away .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound} Okay uh welcome you all .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Components design , um {vocalsound} uh first of all uh I would like to uh uh accommodate some of those uh things I uh uh {disfmarker} elaborate some of the things I did . I I elaborated on the concept . What should be um uh said about uh the components , uh its properties and what kind of materials should we use to uh to make uh one of those r remote controls . Uh well first of all I've uh d subtracted some of the components that is that are used uh are w w um {vocalsound} you know from what uh the remote control's formed . Uh first of all , the case , the case , the surrounding of the of the the remote control . {vocalsound} I would like to uh give you an idea of uh how I thought about .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Don't destroy my giraffe .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Giraffe's gone now .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay um the case was is made from rubber , I suppose . There's one of the {disfmarker} because when you use a remote control a lot of people uh will uh will uh drop their remote control",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Drop it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and they break uh becau the uh titanium was also an option . But uh it's a very expensive material . Uh rubber is , I think , uh the best suitable uh material uh to use uh for our uh for our remote control . Um it's poss it's also possible to uh create fancy colours with rubber . Uh rubber l makes it easy to uh to to {disfmarker} it lets lets itself colour . Uh titanium uh you have to paint it and with that uh it's possible to scratch it or uh yeah make it ugly . Uh rubber uh the total uh piece of rubber that's sor uh that's that's used uh to make the case is uh the same colour , so if you scratch it it's still the same colour , perhaps uh it's a little bit damaged . But it's a very strong material . Um {vocalsound} I h I had an idea single covered uh curved , sorry , single curved .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh so it's t two dimensional . I think it's uh it's best to draw oh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a colour . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "green .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Bright colour . Fancy colour . Forward .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} New . Blank . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You have to go t",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's make it uh black . Okay . I thought of an idea like this . Oh {gap} that . {vocalsound} Um delete . Blank . Okay . So it also looks nice when it's on your table .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you get uh it doesn't lay flat down on the table , but it's c it's stands .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh it's a side view .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Side view yes it's side view so uh I I'm not technically good at th three D_ modelling ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um uh it's just an idea I had so it's uh it's very uh so its also looks nice when it's on the table . Um the graphical user interface and the buttons , uh we also thought about that already . Uh I thought about uh the L_C_D_ touch screen , which is uh is easy to clean too . One of the great uh advantages of the L_C_D_ screen you just use some {gap} or uh another uh cleaning uh uh cl some cleaning stuff .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And um it should be made of strong plastic and it should be bright . Well I already uh s uh explained some properties of that material and I think uh well we also we almost concluded about that uh this should uh be uh our uh button component .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So uh uh that's all about uh the buttons . Uh the batteries , uh we also thought about that already , uh will be chargeable with uh uh an option for a mount station so you can uh put the uh {vocalsound} the remote control in a mount station so its charges itself up instead of uh plugging it in or something like that . Questions , {gap} ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No no no no no . Just looking .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And they should be long lasting , not uh not be empty uh in about uh two minutes or uh thirty minutes or forty minutes of use . And next step is the chip uh th the component that's uh makes or transmits the signal to the television . Uh there was an option to use s a rather simple chip but I think uh because uh of our uh highly uh requiring uh requirements , there should be an advanced chip in it",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "with uh also the ability to uh facilitate speaker speech recognition uh which unfortunately is still in a test phase , so uh there should be some more uh investigation on that side . Uh my personal preferences uh I also overheard in the last meeting that there shou we should use uh our own business colours . That was correct , wasn't it ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . I think they are rather boring for um for use with rubber .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , business colours I thought it was the the slogan and uh the corporate image , so yeah , it needs colour ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay they should be m sh they should be in mind ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I don't think you have to make the entire thing in the corporate colour . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "wasn't it ? Okay so it d it doesn't says uh to uh have the slogan ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It must be recognisable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay okay . Well that's possible of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can put the R_ and R_ . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We could make a little R_ and R_ {gap} on the top of the machine . Uh so they are {vocalsound} pretty boring , I suggest , because just the availability with rubber to make fantastic colours uh and also in a lot of possible colours , so it's possible to make very uh fancy uh remote controls which peopl uh who people in which people will find they're uh interesting . And uh will buy uh {vocalsound} them faster when they look at the same old grey or black uh colours . Uh s as I said uh before rubber is uh is impossible to damage severely imp instead of uh of course you can break it when you you when you break it in s for example with a pair of scissors or something like that , but i if you drop it it's not uh broken uh right away s instead of using uh plastic , hard plastic or uh titanium . And I personally liked uh the single curved uh remote control , because it yeah it makes sense .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . Well that's all about my uh my findings .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I will go next .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm mm mm . Next .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright so",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I thought a little bit about the interface . Uh how it should look . And uh {vocalsound} uh we uh determined that will not be no buttons , but only an L_C_D_ screen , so I had to uh look on that . And the design is therefore based on what we just uh uh thought of . Uh first there are some new findings and new technology for speech recognition . And this is that uh um uh uh you you ask you give a question through through the device and it answers you . And they already uh put this in an in a coffee maker . And so that it you say uh good morning , uh coffee maker , and it says t says to you back good morning Joe or what's your name .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This uh and there's an easy way to uh program that uh you say record into the device into the speaker and then you say the question and three seconds later you say the answer and then when you say the question it gives you the answer . Um perhaps it's useful ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "perhaps for because people um lose the remote ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "they can yell uh remote where are you and {gap} calls or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And perhaps we could uh implement that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then I have to go out of the presentation because I tried to make some kind of a a idea of how it should look like",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh my God . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I can't draw , so uh don't {vocalsound} make too much of it {vocalsound} . I tried to uh the L_C_D_ screen I tried to sort of to draw {gap} . I thought uh at least uh the icon for the volume . I don't know if there is an icon for the program , but",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not just a P_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "P_ yeah , just a P_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": ".. . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then the buttons above and uh below",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "the and the and the mute button also recognisable as an icon . Um .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Where's where's the button for two {gap} ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I forgot that one . {vocalsound} I thought I forgot something ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but uh {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh and uh the numbers , that should be a bit larger I think it's not really on scale and and so forth .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Doesn't matter .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um an options button . And I thought the the button for teletext apar uh apart because it's not really options , I think . It's uh options is the settings of the remote and of the T_V_ and that kind of uh thing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So could call it settings or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But this is a bit uh how I thought it . And uh the L_C_D_ uh somewhere on the remote . Perhaps we could be more curvy the remote perhaps should , so that it's better in your hand or something uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But uh and and uh a microph microphone for the speech uh recognition if we want to implement that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh and then uh if you press the op options button , now we have an example of and then you should get the other options with what what you could do and that you could do with something like this this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh it's also uh I thought think we discussed uh earlier that uh older people don't really want to use uh these extra settings . And older people a also don't really want to use this uh th this kind of option menus . So they want to u use one button and then something happens , and not choose with uh this kind of uh {disfmarker} And you could put in a an a really s little scrolling device on the side of your uh remote ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so you could scroll scroll uh across these uh things .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's an option . And that was my uh finding dinge .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thanks .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now our third",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Go Danny , go Danny . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "team member with his presentation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , I'm going to tell you something about a trend watching . The trends from the past years , what the people like , what the youngsters like , what the elderly people liked about shapes , colours , material and stuff . 'Kay . The method I used was {disfmarker} Like I told I watched the trends from the past years about colours , shapes , material they wanted uh from elderly and young people . So we can keep that in mind for designing f uh the device itself . Findings I made . The most important thing people liked last year was that the remote control should be look look fancy . The second important thing that w should be if inv in innov innovative , okay , like the L_C_D_ screen that's {vocalsound} quite innovative so that should be great meeting for this . And the third thing is it should be easy to use . I think with only one menu , four button , channel , volume , it should also be enough for easy to use . The personal preferences for the young people , they liked fruity colours like uh banana yellow , uh strawberry red and stuff .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Fruity ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Grass green .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Fruity . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Like that . The round shapes , and soft material m materials like the rubber .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It should be soft uh i it should feeling spongy or s Sponge Bob like things .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Let's build it into a sponge .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Th Elderly people like au colours which y are being seen in autumn like um woods um dark brown , red , deep reds and stuff . They liked square shapes with round edges . And hard materials like wood , um titanium . They those kind of materials they liked . This is a bit like the young peoples like the fruity colours , innovative , all the colours you see , the blue , the red , the white , the yellow , that stuff . And then I th I I personally thought the front side of the shape should be something for the youngsters like like",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh y {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "this or something . It's it's a bit like a banana . And the colour should be yellow , or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And for the elderly people just plain old . Because we decided to have two kind of remotes , two designs , or was it two colours ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It was one remote , I think ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Different colours , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "different colours .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We should decide whether it's going to be with round shapes . I think like my colleague , you said , is that's e better , or for the elderly people something like like the iPod or something , with round squares . Simple but",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "easy to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So that's it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So for the older people , a more traditional uh form .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That is my {disfmarker} Yeah , like the older o older colours I can maybe {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You could you could uh change the colours , that was also the idea . I don't know which shape you should should take ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Colours th the elderly people {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I guess changing colours will be easier than changing uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Changing just the shape of the uh remote control ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the shape of it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps you could find something in the middle . Round but square . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "round corners , but s but square , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But maybe then both groups won't buy it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh i i if you do it uh uh square , with round corners but a little uh in the middle of it uh i Do you know what I mean ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I know what you mean , kind of like a {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} wait , like {vocalsound} like this {vocalsound} uh a bit .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it's a bit square , but it's also a bit uh round .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Kinda like a beer glass . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So but then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I know what you mean .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Same sides . {vocalsound} But that's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's also easy to to have {vocalsound} to to put in your hand .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but that's also how other remotes are shaped , so that's uh {disfmarker} But perhaps that's a good thing ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so that's easy to use . People know the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Will recognise that's as a remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Look something like that {gap} . Autumn colours like red , brown .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh when I saw your d Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "They liked the wood a lot .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So maybe we could give it like wooden loo look look or something in that colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , kinda like old cars , uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And a bit bit old school style renaissance , medieval kind of things .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Swords . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Let's put it all together .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Those kind of {disfmarker} Yeah , those kind of things . So you see the big difference between the young people ? Fresh , exciting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the old people , old and boring .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But that's easily to do with the colour , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} Sorry ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's easy to do with the colours , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think it's it's easier to do in colour than in shape .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we think so too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because otherwise we have to {gap} get different shapes , and colour {gap} way easier than yeah the shapes . In material yeah rubber , rubber is , like I said , young people like more soft materials and spongy ones",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and the old people like {vocalsound} plain wood .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we have to decide if we're going to use real hard rubber , or soft rubber . Or something something between that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah think uh {disfmarker} Also in between . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Soft rubber .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {gap} soft rubber",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "which you can you can feel in it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I know what you {disfmarker} Um .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think you should be able to mould it ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It should shouldn't be {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . Or or wh what's something harder . No no no but but you have to like like like a a eraser or something . That's the bit you can press it in ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or something harder .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Bit like this kind of rubber . This uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , something like this , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it's quite hard , this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's quite hard but you can press it in .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's feels kind s spongy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Spongy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Something . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I don't think it's rubber .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . N n n",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we need a spongy feeling . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh did you have something about uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Are you going to invite Sponge Bob , maybe he can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we should first decide about shape , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ding ding .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Which uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah I think that's the better thing to do . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then you can fit the L_C_D_ screen in it ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and can decide uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um I also s uh can't help but notice {vocalsound} that you uh used an {disfmarker} you had a remote control {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and the L_C_D_ screen was uh rather small . Um .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "w I think that L_C_D_ screen should be like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it it's supposed to be bit s bit s bit",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": ".. . This was your size ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but I think it should be larger .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah three quarter of the of the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , three quarters . So uh so you don't have to put your {disfmarker} {vocalsound} oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the buttons won't get that small when the L_C_D_ screen is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh new , blank . So uh when you get {vocalsound} this uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ooh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh kinda like this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or should it be larger ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Larger I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Larger ? Because you want to put your hands {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But if you pu",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now you can put your hand there and then you won't touch the screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You want",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "becau because you have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps that's best .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay , true , true , true true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Your thumb here .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But not on the screen because {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that's uh that's an idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Looks a bit like a Game Boy now . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because when you put your f Yeah but if yo if you make the the L_C_D_ screen as large as the remote control itself , uh you'll {vocalsound} you'll always get some {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You always touch it ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Going to be very greasy and stuff .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But it won't get that small because you have how much ? Nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen buttons on the screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "One to zero , the two digit , {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you don't want it too small . How yeah how large {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You have to you have to {disfmarker} Because some fat people with d thick fingers will press three buttons at same time .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah they have thick fingers {gap} . But if you wanna make it in international , Japanese uh people got uh rather small hands",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah true ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and we got these large {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} Yeah , we have we have the zoom option , right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Zoom opt Ah yeah of course , yeah . You can make it larger to to uh to uh with accompanying uh greater fields to push the button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And we won't include a a pen , or something to point ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "hey , we we want to do it with our fingers ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Your fingers , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Y you could include a pen",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You don't want uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because if you lose the pen uh if you lose the pen uh you can't use {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Use a pen You you c you can lose the pen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but I think people want to use a remote with with their fingers because th they're used to that",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {gap} the fingers , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah o yeah {gap} , if they think it's handy to use a pen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think this uh this is a good size for the screen . I don't know how how large the actual remote should be but a little bit like this , or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And maybe we have to add a tissue to remove the grease from all the fingers , huh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {gap} You can do {gap} whatever uh any uh cloth .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but that that can be {gap} with plain soft tissue . Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you can buy those at {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "maybe , if I can interrupt you , maybe I should uh should show some points on which we uh should take a decision .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we can discuss these points . {gap} those points um energy question mark . How how should we uh supply the thing with energy and how {disfmarker} are we going to do it with separate docking station and then put {gap} in it . Uh chip on print and case . Those are points my uh coach advised me to discuss here , but I hope you have ideas about them .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think energy were batteries and then uh and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The docking station .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So that's the the the first point .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it's better to to include rechargeable batteries",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We already decided that on the previous meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "W {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "which you can recharge through the docking station .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Just like with the telephone .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So if the badg the batteries are dead",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I kinda like your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "then you can re you can uh change them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you got some uh some of those uh uh wireless uh mice ? Mouse . Computer mouse .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah like those .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Kinda like those kind of batteries .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} but it should be th I think normal batteries ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "not not like two or two uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , normal plain you {disfmarker} No normal plain batteries you can buy at the supermarket or retail shop . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Simple rechargeable uh batteries .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um what was with the chip on print ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The chip on print ? Um {disfmarker} Uh you gotta f Yeah . I think so . Chip on print with a with a {vocalsound} simple uh a sim not a simple but a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Print plate .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We also discussed that . Didn't we ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but how did this how does that with a L_C_D_ screen ? You still have a print plate .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah . You always have a print plate .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Beg your pardon ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You always have a print plate ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure , of course , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "right ? Always , so {disfmarker} I dunno what w what we have to decide about that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well it's a good question .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It just was in there",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Well uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and I didn't have any information about it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "chip on print , I think what they mean uh with the regular rubber buttons that you got , uh it's always clear for the remote control when you press uh a certain button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But when you got a L_C_D_ screen , with no uh with not {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the buttons are not always on the same place ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "for example if you enlarge a button , or if you got several options uh appearing on your screen , uh the co-ordinations aren't always the same .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "When you got a regular button , th the button of stand-by is always on the same place and you got on the and on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay , but the p print plate of L_ L_C_D_ screen is more advanced than a normal print plate ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so that that's not of any discussion , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well you need some kind of C_P_U_ , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} I suppose so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm , I don't I dunno I don't think that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It is a simple C_P_U_ but it doesn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah okay but I d I I don't know if nor o s it's quite a simple L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah because it has to uh b",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's quite a simple L_C_D_ screen . I think they don't need that big of C_P_U_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but it the the remote control has to know whether you're in a settings menu or just uh you just want to turn up the volume .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , true true . True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it has to have some kind of a calculation unit or C_P_U_",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "to know uh in which state you are and uh which button you are pressing in at the right moment .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Because we're projecting projecting the buttons on the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And a touch screen makes it uh possible to uh to get the co-ordination of your finger on the screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the case , yeah we already discussed the case ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's rubber .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we wanted to make it from rubber",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but but a hard rubber like this ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or softer rubber or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh hard rubber I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's the easy to ha uh to to uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It bounces back from the floor where you {vocalsound} throw it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah sure , look {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We have different colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah yeah this in different colours ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "D",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So the shapes is something between the square shapes with round colo corners and a round shapes ? No I don't think , I think it's more round than square . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's a bit . But I think it should be a bit longer , perhaps .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So it meets I think it meets more the young people than the older people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But that's what we want , {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think so too .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's our target . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's our main target .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Lower than forty years , I think",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Well and how about my idea uh of making it um with one single curve ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it was .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So i",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah that that {vocalsound} I think {disfmarker} I thought that was a quite good",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because it's a gadget and you want to show it off , of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah you have a fancy design , then , right away .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because it",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can put it on your table with the L_C_D_ screen ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you don't have to put it {disfmarker} get it in your hand , you can put it next to you",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then dive it in",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's a good idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {gap} . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's a lot easier .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , so",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you got uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Did you write that down ? Uh got a single curved uh rubber f uh fancy coloured {vocalsound} remote control . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can't you You can't oh , you c you can draw it on your paper and then load it on the",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but I wrote it down . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's pretty easy but {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And load it on the the user the server .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What about the user interface , there are also some some questions uh about the concepts I think you have some ideas on that {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You you showed your drawing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I had what I just uh I should {gap} again . I miss a few buttons , but . Well . At least uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} what we should also have on , I just remembered , um a menu to go back through the first uh {gap} if if you touch options , you can't go back to this uh right away now .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah , you have to go back . Yeah uh uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Isn't it better to have the sound and the general buttons horizontal ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "With the minus and the plus .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's easier than {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . I I thought it was uh easier to handle this way ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but I don't know what they think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sorry ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Would you like the the buttons horizontal or v vertical ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For sound and channel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Th",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Depends on the screen . If you make the screen vertical it doesn't matter . If you make it uh in a rectangle {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right well if we make it like this , I think if you",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I so it's it's it's it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "put it like this {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Square . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it's it's easier to have it something like {disfmarker} Oh a button uh minus here , plus over here . A minus here , plus over here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And on here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The other buttons and on here {vocalsound} the top .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The options and then you have something like uh the P_ over here ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I think I wou",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and the sound .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think that's a matter of what you're used to .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Something uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think I would put a plus and a min uh here . And then the P_ in the mid in the middle and the sound uh in the middle .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Something like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Take your time . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Plus minus plus uh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Almost . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "minus .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but I think when you are holding it , you could press the minus and the plus and with the other finger the minus and the plus .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think you're going to s you're going to use it with one thumb .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but I think {disfmarker} Yeah I don't know . {vocalsound} Perhaps I have some examples .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "W",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We'll leave that to the usability engineering then . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Who's the usability engineering ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's me .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "She is . {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I'm going to look if I've got some examples",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'cause perhaps you should choose what's most often used .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} 'Cause they can use that better .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Consistency .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh {gap} {disfmarker} I have that those s numbers .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} Here is our {disfmarker} here are uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or a good watch .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't really know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "B",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Everybody's searching in his data .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Channel selection . Per hour one hundred and sixty eight . Volume selection four times an hour",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {gap} {disfmarker} But I mean if it's usually plus or min above each other or next to each other on a normal remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So not how much {disfmarker} n not how often it's used , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "W what's what's usual or normal .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that depends on on on the remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes I'm looking here . But here's it's below ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "here also , and now here's here's next to each other .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it's {gap} it's a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think {gap} because I have two televisions at home . One is horizontal , one is vertical ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it does it doesn't really matter ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so it depends .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Depends .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think the the the volume was usually uh above each other , because you go higher and down .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , lower .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And the the pay the the the program is next to each other , because you would go further and back .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's how it's is usually {gap} when I look here",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's what I see .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , um . Let's cut to the chase . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's got to change .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well I think we have we don't have to decide about that now how where we will put the buttons",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "just the",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah is it is user interface .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "concepts .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Component .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This concept is in the actual design , but you should know where you would place a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well le Yeah . Interface , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the speech uh shall we implement that ? Or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well we just heard about the new uh technology , huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Technologies , uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think it's it's easy for that , where are you , but then it says I'm here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But then you should also find a place {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Makes it possible to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You could if you do it like this you could put it in a corner or something . You can talk into the corner .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , a microphone , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Not even necessary ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because a lotta {disfmarker} you can make a very sensitive microphone , so it makes it possible to uh {vocalsound} just put it arou uh underneath it or on the on the bottom of the uh remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah maybe at the bottom where you can can hel hold it with you hand that there's also a microphone uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But {disfmarker} Yeah , that's also {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "over there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , in the middle or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But that's not import I think that's not im very important",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because yeah , it doesn't matter where the microphone is .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} but you should uh decide where you want to put it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah okay , sure , okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "well tha",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um I think where it isn't seen",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Underneath ? {gap} Indeed . It shouldn't be uh very uh visible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the most .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You could p you could put it in a logo of the company . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Inside .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure , why no",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "maybe just in the the spot you just pointed out",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I i between the round of the R_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because I think it should be in a in an important position where people can see it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because it is the the unique uh idea of our remote , huh , the the speech control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So where do you want to put it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well maybe where the one hand {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but it doesn't makes it uh any more fancy because you get to see uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah actually it does {vocalsound} because it you can you can find it better if you use it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's a way for you to uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "bu but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it makes more sense just 'cause other remotes don't have that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But are we talking about the button , or about the microphone ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "About a microphone ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah because a microphone is very small thing ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "there is no button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but you can make it look like it's big so as its its really an important function of the remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think the left s under corner should be the best .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Where isn't {disfmarker} i it isn't most in sight .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well put it there . I don't mind . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That doesn't doesn't really matter .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . Actually doesn't .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright . Any more uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So well uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Interface type .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "type , supplements , anything . Yeah , well we already s discussed that , huh , the the L_C_D_",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The L_C_D_ yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "uh supplements well the supplement is to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} I think {disfmarker} I thought the , like you said , like scroll {vocalsound} next to the remote isn't that handy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's better to just {gap} up what you'd like to do on the screen . If you want to go back you have to back button go back ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "if you want to choose audio settings you press audio settings and it goes to that s sub-menu .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hey ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um yeah . Yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the the young people do like uh scroll uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Use the scroll . Yeah I think so too .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? You do like it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So why not , on on side .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or at least {disfmarker} Yeah I don't know if it's really the scroll , but the menu {gap} they like most , and I think you can never get through a menu great with a scroll uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Fast , yeah . So if you've got a settings , if you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think it is is faster . Becau I think the scroll's easier if you have a lot of options ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but if you don't have a lot of option then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But you have {disfmarker} it's f uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You have a lot of options ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we have five or four or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because when you use {disfmarker} Yeah you get w when you use uh the settings menu for example to look up some uh uh some channels on your uh on your television , you should scroll scroll down uh on a menu which probably does not fit on your screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Y",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh . Yeah , okay , true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So then it's uh very handy to to scroll down ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you make just a rubber just like uh on your mouse or . Just put it on the side and it's very easy to use .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Okay , no problem .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And I think I would it would make even more fancy because you have another interesting thing on the side",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "which you can touch",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's also different . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well there's our five minutes uh warning . Um any more uh questions about about the design or the user interface or different components , everyone ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um . No , colours are clear ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Everybody think they can can",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "shape is clear , material is clear .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , what's the standard colour ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "work for that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And a standard ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is there a standard colour ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah we don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I I",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "no we have different colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You got you got different colours ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How many colours are we going to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You should you should have a black one",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but you should have a standard colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because uh I think black is standard .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Black . Yeah , black I think is is the standard .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Black ? With the with the yellow uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But if you want to be different , then uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Dark grey , something like this this colour or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just a regular uh remote colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah like like yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then have uh different covers uh to use .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or or silver . I think it's better to have silver nowadays .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Silver .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Silver , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think you see more silver than black .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You see a lot of t uh silver televisions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But still silver and black are {disfmarker} well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Silver rubber . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the the silver black are our main colours . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "silver is new but also traditional , so uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think we have silver , black and between those {vocalsound} is like I dunno s five colours between them or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah w what about a yellow thing , I mean it",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah y I think it's better to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah it'll be a banana yellow , we have .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "could be ugly , but it's definitely fancy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "R red .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah th yeah . That's right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But if you use uh silver , uh rubber s silver rubber isn't fancy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Green , wood , brown . Yeah . True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When you use titanium , silver is fancy ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but when you use silver rubber , it isn't fancy . Silver has to shine , and rubber doesn't shine .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Especially when it's made of soft rubber like this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You understand ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I understand .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I would think about colours like uh red , yellow , green , blue ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah o of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The fruity colours and the autumn colours , like red and brown , {gap} dark red and brown .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just all kind of colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Fruity . Fruity loops .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Maroon . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And and do we have to have a normal black one , or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Who's pinging ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You are pingin",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} I thought we",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You ping . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so uh that wraps it up ? Everybody knows uh what to do ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I wrote it down here . I wrote it down here what to do um .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I don't know what to do ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well not what to do . Not what to do .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The next meeting is once again in thirty minutes . Um here are the individual actions ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and especially notice that uh the Industrial Designer and the User Interface Designer are going to work together on a prototype drawing on a smart board ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ooh . {vocalsound} Right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and of course to all four of us uh specific instructions will be emailed by our personal coach .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "tough . We'll be available .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But do we have to {disfmarker} We'll work together , but do we have to stay here , or do we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I I'd say just wait uh for email and uh find out .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thin I think we should work {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay well that was what I had to say , uh ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "final thoughts from anyone , or ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We're finished .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Finished .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we have to keep talking English now ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3005d | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"52",
"136"
]
],
"topic": "Prototype presentation"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"141",
"720"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion on the evaluation of remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"738",
"1155"
]
],
"topic": "Budget control of production finance"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1156",
"1534"
]
],
"topic": "Project evaluation and Summarize about the whole work process"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This is the fourth meeting. Project Manager began a detailed design meeting with Industrial Designer and User Interface's overall design presentation. Industrial Designer and User Interface introduced the remote control was green with a light-blue screen of LCD, scroll and microphone function and the RR logo. Marketing put up a questionnaire so group members discussed and evaluated remote design. The final average score was two. Then the group calculated production cost. After calculation, the production cost was eighteen fifty and surpassed the company's budget. So the design was changed and functions such as scroll and microphone were lost to satisfy the budget. The group evaluated the project and gave some suggestions about the whole process.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Based on the analysis of user requirements, the group evaluated remote control by answering questions on the questionnaire. The questions on the questionnaire were mainly about fancy design, innovation, simplicity, target people, shape, colour, material, function, logo, etc. The final average score for remote control design is two. Marketing thought it was a quite good score.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion on evaluation criteria of remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"141",
"720"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing wondered if all the buttons were easy to find. User Interface thought most of the buttons were easy to find except options. Options were easy to find by touch. Meanwhile, Industrial Designer thought all the buttons were easier to find than a regular remote control. However, marketing insisted that options were not found that easy.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion on the usability of remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"289",
"330"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer thought this remote control was the most useful ever with regular and easy controls. In user Interface's opinion, old people can use speech functions after reading manuals. With speech recognition, channels would be changed easily and elder's questions would be answered. Project Manager agreed the speech function would make remote control easier to use, even for elders.",
"query": "Why did group think the remote control can be easily used for both young and old?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"357",
"401"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "At first, the cost of remote control was eighteen and a half which highly surpassed the company's budget. Group had to change the design and lose functions so that the budget could fill the company's standard. Under this circumstance, the new design changed shape and lost functions such as scroll and microphone until the cost was twelve fifty. In addition, remote control changed to a single curve shape and battery without a solar cell made of rubber material.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about production finance.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"783",
"1093"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer thought scroll wheel should be changed and the curve was not needed. Project Manager suggested dropping speech recognition for four euros cut. After a discussion about material, function, colour, chip, LCD and shape, the group decided to lose function as scroll wheel and microphone, change colour to only green and shape to single curve so that cost could be twelve fifty.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about budget control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"858",
"1112"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager suggested scrap speech recognition to cut four euros. User interface insisted that speech recognition was a special and new feature so it shouldn't be lost. However, compared to advanced chip and curve shape, the group decided to cut the speech recognition function.",
"query": "Why did User Interface disagree with losing speech recognition in the discussion of production finance?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"919",
"1089"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Beep . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So well uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "welcome everyone .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um as you may have noticed I uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "created separate folders because it was uh tending to get a little busy in our uh shared project documents uh folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know if everybody uh put their own uh documents in the right folder , which is for now the detailed design meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's new one ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We didn't make any uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , we should save that one . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh in {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then I'll move this one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Didn't we just do that ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , save in the folder . Save as project .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh no , this is just one big document , so you can leave that wherever it is .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And we have a evaluation left here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Agenda .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well not main documents this time . Oh uh yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I have it open myself I guess . Um well the detailed design meeting {disfmarker} Huh ? We're finally getting somewhere hopefully .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um what are we going to do ? I've opened it already . Um I'm still going to take some minutes , and if I'm right , you two are going to give a prototype presentation ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , sorry .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Aren't you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We could . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , you are .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh m did you do something with evaluation criteria ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Good . And we have a correct agenda . And uh then we have to look at something which is less nice , the finance uh aspect , whether we can afford what we have designed ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oops . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and if we can we can uh commence the final part which is the production or project evaluation , how did we work together and what are the results , and how happy are we with those . Okay , well finance uh will be later . Now I'd like to give the word to you two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Get up stand up . {gap} just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we made a prototype .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We first start with the overall uh {disfmarker} This is about the total remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "View .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We made it green .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Just example colour ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so uh there's one of the colours we would like to uh see in our prototype .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a fresh colour . And uh the screen light blue . Oh uh this the scroll button and the microphone on the on the sides here under . And the R_ and R_ logo , it just says R_ and R_ now , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Any questions so far ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Big microphone .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "just uh just an idea about how to m th that could also be possible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay . That's the place where it's going to be , not the size . {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh well , it's an idea in a {disfmarker} so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh y you {disfmarker} perhaps you should make it a bit big , so people know it's there and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Do not forget it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "To function it it doesn't really have to be sm uh big of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The microphone could be just a minor uh hole uh on the left uh button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm , th yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay um",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Small .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} we also made some uh ideas about how uh the options menu would work . Uh using the scroll button on sides uh y uh I uh um {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You push the scroll button",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you push the scroll button",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and it's claps out if there's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and a drop down menu or a pull out menu comes out and uh you get uh you get the options uh becoming available . For example uh T_V_ settings , uh remote settings , et cetera .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Remote settings , et cetera . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So uh you can scroll down too with the scroll uh button , uh as you can see {disfmarker} oh , it's here , just push it in , uh the menu comes out like this and uh i it all becomes visible . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And you could also touch it so that it comes out ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's c",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and and use the the the scroll thing as a {disfmarker} with your fingers .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Indeed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , um it's also uh nice to see that um we made a small uh menu , uh the options menu uh becoming available when pressing the uh scroll uh button , and the opportunity to use the teletext , whi which is used uh {disfmarker} which should still be used and we think that it's uh very handy to put it uh not uh under the options menu , but in uh {disfmarker} Yes . In an apart uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So a separate button for for text ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In a separate button , yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps we should use the teletext sign in p yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A sign , yeah , just like {disfmarker} Okay , indeed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Forgot . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we can uh modify that later . Okay . Would you like to make any comments about next uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh well , this is the total interface uh that f of the L_C_D_ screen . Uh the numbers , which is pretty straight forward . We put ano an an extra button in . We can erase it , but {disfmarker} It's the button where you can switch channels . {gap} just when you are one and you go to two , you can {disfmarker} or if you go to five , you can go back to one with that button . Yeah , that one , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Previous page , yeah , indeed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It has a name . And uh uh we put that in ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh my God .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I thought it would be handy there . Uh this the one number or two numbers button . Below that , the page and the sound . And uh in the middle the the mute . Uh battery indicator . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} It's quite large .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's {vocalsound} it's a bit big .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And this is the uh the on off uh knop , the stand by uh knop . Or at least it should look like it . And the options uh of teletext .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . You can see very clearly now that the uh teletext and options menu isn't uh taking uh much uh {disfmarker} uh it's taking much part of the screen , so it's very uh {disfmarker} when you uh {vocalsound} when you use it , doesn't uh become irritating to see .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause if you put it on the top you always get see the the options menu . 'Cause people regularly uh read from left top to right down ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well this about it , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . Looks good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I will put it back on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} on the nice green .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I just missed when I was typing {disfmarker} The R_R_ stands for ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's the logo of the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Logo , okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's th th right now it's only R_ R_ , but uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay well {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Full screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I would have recognised it if it were the right colours of course . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Shit .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , the evaluation criteria ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh full screen , yeah {vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Evaluation . 'Kay , my task was this time to put up a questionnaire by which we can evaluate the design of the remote control by the questions we {gap} {disfmarker} requirements from the {disfmarker} of the users . My name , my job , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "My name , my job . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The methods . Questionnaire with seven point scale from one to seven , from true to false ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "like question , is remote big enough , we can say it's true or it's false by steps . One means absolutely not true , seven {gap} {disfmarker} means true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The three important things of refa {vocalsound} {gap} are uh from th of this year is {disfmarker} are ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sorry ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you used the PowerPoint {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "is the remote control fancy enough ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "is it in innovative enough , and is it easy enough to use . And then evaluation itself . Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bling .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "First question . Is the design fancy enough ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Project Manager , what do you think ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well it's {disfmarker} looks fancy , especially with the green colour . And the the curves which we decided ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But does it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Only what happened to the single curve we spoke about last meeting ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It uh {disfmarker} oh it's in the background . Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Now uh the single curved idea was uh {disfmarker} Yeah , okay , you ge um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Y you should make uh a sideways uh view .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . The sideways view , uh that that that ma",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It will be , I guess . Oh , we can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ho not that pen . {vocalsound} Not that pen . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "g {vocalsound} I would {vocalsound} {disfmarker} smart board .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it might work one time , huh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Suppose so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh can I draw here or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ooh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah . Oh my God ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , you can .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it would be uh something like this from the side , but with a bit of uh curve here ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it works .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's the single curve indeed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So if you v flip it like this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Here's {gap} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's not very {disfmarker} i it's also uh very handy if you make a side curve way to make the the remote control very thin at the bottom uh at a bottom at a bottom . Uh make it uh rather thick on the top , because uh on the top it has uh the screen , which takes uh in some uh space , and the batteries can be located over there ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So you just make the back of this part a bit bigger ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so that it lays a bit o",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Isn't going to be a little bit heavy at the top ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , that's a bit of problem maybe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "With two batteries , the whole print plate and t and top , and if you're holding it quite a lot I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think yeah , the battery should be in here , because it's just nothing ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so if you could {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , indeed . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but we have to rate uh these things now ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Cause otherwise I think i",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we have to rate .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is it fancy enough ? True is one , false is seven . So fancy enough means , does it comes to the younger people and the elder people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it does .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I if you don't make it green , then the elder people won't won't like it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's pretty fancy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , I have to agree , all the colour colours don don doesn't matter that m that much now ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} you get th",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's only design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it does .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I think uh especially because of the microphone and the L_C_D_ screen also .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I don't know whether older people will use it , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Very new thing . Well {disfmarker} Fancy {gap} the old people will .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I would make it a two or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A two ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} It's true , it's a one . {vocalsound} Very fancy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh ? Alright , it's a one . {vocalsound} Oh it's a one . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , it's a two . {vocalsound} Little bit strange we have to judge that ourselves , huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I n used {disfmarker} I wouldn I should use that one , but it doesn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But it's a one uh {disfmarker} Maybe uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , no it's two ? True is a one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Very true , is it very true or isn't that true ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I'd say two on a scale {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well they think it's very true , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's very true , because we designed it to be very fancy ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's very fancy , I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We should perhaps {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Have you ever seen a remote control like this ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , okay well , that's true . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That not .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so so it's fancy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's fancy enough .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , one two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That doesn't matter that much , so make it a one . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Let's give it a two . Is it innovative ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it is ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Enough .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because it has an L_C_D_ screen , a mi microphone .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "m",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh uh the scroll is rubber ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's from rubber .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We have for the search function .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so s Eno enough to {gap} I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The scroller a bit {disfmarker} I think it's it's a one yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a one I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "True . Also huh uh-huh {disfmarker} the buttons , are they easy to find ? That was a big requirement of the old people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , because they're right on your screen . So you can use the b the the arrows . They're right on your screen ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so I don't know where you'd search .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "With the ones {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Are all the buttons easy to find ? Not only this buttons , all the buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think they are . The options are it {disfmarker} uh little bit harder ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but if you touch the options then it's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Take a harder look , yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think th it's",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's easier than the regular uh remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "easy t",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and you use these buttons the most ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think this is easy now . I think th I think the options buttons are not the the easiest way to to",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "huh ? So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No they're not , but they're they're they are easy to find .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "to handle . True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they are a lot easier to find than uh th than on the regular remote controls",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I would rate it a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "where you have to uh find out what {disfmarker} which sign or icon means on uh every button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , that's true , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you have t you have to use the the the manual to understand most {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "which {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But that's that's vantage of L_C_D_ screen , you can have text .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So which number are we going to fill in ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I would say yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's uh it's a two , at least .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A two , yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you can make it a two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two , three and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's not perfect , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "what do you think ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think it's a three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A three ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we have two , two , three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And why is that ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I personally think , because I d I don't think i maybe it's easy to use , it has to be easy to find right away . I I think if you have the button at the right , I don't think you can find the option button that easy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but you don't have t have to use the button on the right . You can touch it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can touch it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You you can touch options .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It said bo both the options .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , but you have y then you have here s written option on here , the teletext button ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , then okay , good . Then I think also two , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can touch options",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A two , okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and it's comes out .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because we have to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A two , a two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The uh the um {disfmarker} Below .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's the box below it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh the next question the next question .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh my God .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise we have two results in one question .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's different .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , next question .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's easy to use , as well for younger as elderl elderly people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For young people I think it's easy to use .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Young means sixteen to forty years .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I was {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And elderly from forty eight to their death .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's the most useful uh remote control ever to be manufactured . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} In the entire mankind .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , you're very enthusiastic about your own design ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Also if you're sixty years old {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but because it has the regular uh controls , li uh as you can see in the screen now , and uh you don't have all the other options uh always uh on your screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So it's t I think it's really easy to use . You want these options to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Also",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "As well for the for the older people ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , as well as your {disfmarker} if you're fif sixty years old , you're holding one of those things in your hand {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh {disfmarker} Yeah , but they they don't want the uh extra options , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , but we're going to th make this f for a all kind of people ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And would it be easy for them to use the speech recognition ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so it it it has to be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but so they could {disfmarker} Uh I think it is . If they read a manual .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because that might {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} If you read the manual ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , alright . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps that is one of the most uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} always .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "M maybe that's the most user friendly and easy to use .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because it it's not it's not it's it's not uh difficult .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh because a lot of {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You say you say uh record to to the to the speech recognition ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Channel one , channel four , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "then you say the question and the answer . And that's everything it does , the speech recognition .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well maybe that would make it even more easy to use for them .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think it would make it uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think it does .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because all the people who can't uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I would make it two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Also two ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh a two . Sure , two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Not a seven for this {gap} ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Three ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'd say three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I would also say three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we have three three two two",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . You ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So what are we going to do ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker} Two and a half . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , a three , I see . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Three ? No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Give me more .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Another question .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Remotes overwhelmed with buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , that that's that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But um I mean ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's definitely one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Tha that's a one , I think , that's definitely a one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's definitely our uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh nee , oh seven is it ? It is .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the remote score .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A false , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I think you should make it one scale with with one being good and seven being bad ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think isn't , this has to be something like isn't overwhelmed .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because otherwise we can't uh calculate anything from the results ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's not overwhelmed . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , indeed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , a one ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because we designed for that , huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Remote control has uh colours that different {disfmarker} that meet different target groups .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Cause we make them in different colours ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so that they uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "is optional .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and I though w we had about single colours ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but you can also make uh a wood colour , not just one single colour but a wood-like thing ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That it that it looks like wood , like something , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "can't you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Also with rubber ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I think you can .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Whether it looks like wood , it isn't w it isn't wood",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It it feels like rubber ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can make a print on rubber ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "can't you ? Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that's a one then ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well but then when you scratch it it does come off .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "huh ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's a one ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that's a bit {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it is it is harder to",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do you have many questions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh I have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "to like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh we have time . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Geez .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we have {disfmarker} We also {disfmarker} We have to get to the money . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We're getting paid . We're getting paid . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The material used is spongy ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} What ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that that's uh that's a one , that's m rubber .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What {gap} spongy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , it's very spongy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I th think it's not the most spongy thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but not {disfmarker} it's not very spongy , because it's hard rubber . I think it's a three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's a three ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because you want to make it uh rather flexible but not too flexible ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hard but {disfmarker} Yeah . You can {vocalsound} break it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because it has a L_C_D_ screen . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hard to lose ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Remote control is hard to lose .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah it sh and it's easy to find .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Y yeah , you could you could call it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Y you can't you can't lose it if you're sixty years old . If first time see the thing you didn didn't adjust uh {disfmarker} set the microphone , and then you lose it , then you have lost it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , y you can lose it , but it isn't hard to lose .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It isn't hard , no . I think I think this is a two , personally .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Two . That it's hard to lose ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it it is {disfmarker} there's the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Isn't hard to lose .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so isn't hard to lose you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's a six , you think ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Isn't hard to lose , yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Isn't hard to lose .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it's a two . Yeah , you can lose it , so I don't {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You can't lose it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you can make it a three I {gap} {disfmarker} It does have an {disfmarker} a built in function .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or if you're you're sixty years old , your demands {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but a har A hard to lose is good . So it should {disfmarker} this question should be hard to lose . It's difficult to lose it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nee . Hard to lose . Oh right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , this this is hard to lose .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It is hard to lose . Yeah , so then this is {disfmarker} it is almost true ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker} yeah , I think also .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so a two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Two , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And most all because of the option to {disfmarker} Whoa .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ooh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's okay . That happens above also . But maybe when you scroll away and back it will be normal ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} Yep . Oh ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it isn't ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh well ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "well okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it doesn't .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} put the cor cursor {gap} on the {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Remember .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay okay okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Click .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Remote control mainly be sold to younger people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it will ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "True . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? True ? Very true ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh well",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} a",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , I don't think very true because the colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "a two . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We have the colours . Um we have the buttons is {disfmarker} aren't that that much .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Materials , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Nah , the material isn't that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's it's much more younger .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay . So ma uh make it make it a two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I don I think I think it's a three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I think it's it's uh a lower number , so better because w we designed it for young people especially ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "didn't we ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think it's a two",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but I uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What do you think ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Questions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A two ? I think it's two . I think it's two too , two too too .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Two . Uh-huh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Two two two . {vocalsound} Let's make everything a two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "In the features ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Dissatisfy younger people . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Younger people . It has {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well perhaps not .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What did {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because younger peoples are cr critical and they wanted a lot of features on this thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well that {disfmarker} it doesn't .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , n not exactly but uh uh if it had some games on it or something like that ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah bu but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but it's for a remote control I think it i {vocalsound} it would satisfy those needs .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think they like the speech . You could call to your uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the speech possibility ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah , and the screen ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the colours .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "L_C_D_ screen and scroll .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Scroll options , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I I think they'll be quite met with their expectations .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but those are more fancy functions , not not really many features or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right , that that that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It has relatively few features ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "those are features .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's three features , basically ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "with {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the L_C_D_ {gap} touch screen is feature .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The microphone is a feature .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "aren't the features {disfmarker} the microphone's feature and that you can change the channel's feature , and that you can change the volume is feature ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and that you can change the options of the remote , uh uh something like that . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ours had other features with {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . I think {disfmarker} yeah , and then you have the audio settings , channel setting , video settings .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The easy volume up button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Those are features .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Remote {disfmarker} younger people usually use the remote control to put on the volume . {vocalsound} Turn uh turn up the volume .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Enough features ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I've chos I shou I think it's it's it's a one . Personally , yeah . I think once you've {disfmarker} 'cause you have the channel features b uh you have the uh screen features , audio features , the {disfmarker} you have all buttons on it which you'd like , microphone extra , L_C_D_ screen extra , scroll thing extra .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , you think one ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "what do you think ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think two or three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You . {gap} three , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'd say three , so two it is then",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah uh a two a two . {vocalsound} Just another two . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Make it make it a two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One two three . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or make it uh a fucking two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We like two . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can see the remote control is {gap} R_ and R_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , there's R_ and R_ in front .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Has {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh it's not the colour , so maybe you should make two , but it has R_ and R_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "oh yeah , do did have {disfmarker} nah y you have the black one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And we'll probably make also a yellow one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but not R_ and R_ yellow I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "maybe maybe two . Well m th but the logo is on on the front ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , true , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker} a two , yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One d on i it's the colours and the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "X_ marks spot . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the menu is avail that is available is easy to use . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it is , but I don't know what you think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think it's easier to use than a regular remote control , because when you push on the options menu , you get the the the various options uh entirely explained . Entirely explained .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , tha that's so true . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Instead of uh just finding out what an icon means on a button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah , uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you can navigate easier , because wi with the {disfmarker} you have to push the the the arrows and {disfmarker} with a normal T_V_ uh remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can navigate . Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think that wou that would be quite hard to learn to use it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You're not satisfied , okay . Let's start over again then . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , I'm not not convinc . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Let's make a different remote . Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Let's go th for {vocalsound} inhalation of air]",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Menu .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it would be a t yeah , two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A two ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} A two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Now lower . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , well that's that's pretty good ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We only have twos . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , I think so . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh just twos . One three and a few ones .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And three .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So okay , we have one three , a one , that that have to got up . {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Two threes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two two two two two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We m mostly have twos , so it's pretty good .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So two , yeah . The average is a two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The average . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That is quite good",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think so too .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "in my opinion . That {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We can be happy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ooh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Save . {vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ooh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What is it ? It's like a bug or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's a fly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A fly , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh m",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A f butterfly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Top .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That was your evaluation uh show ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay , so we don't have to calculate anything because of um these results .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , it's two . The average is two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's good . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um let's see {disfmarker} oh , it isn't asked to save but it did already {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I uh uh I uh saved it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And this {gap} Everything okay . Well , the next part uh might be a little bit difficult to do in a group , but I am willing to try it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because we are going to look at the finance and I have a nice Excel sheet to do that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Redesign . No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And um I'm not sure if I put it in the project folder . {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "look on that . Um and we're going to calculate the production costs , and if they are uh under or at twelve Euro fifty ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we're good , and if they're not we're going to uh re-design ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but we have to do that uh very very quick I think ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we're going to erase features or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yes . Um I don't know if I",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do you have the cost",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "put the Excel sheet in the",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Let's hope .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "n not in the",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} f fifty five Euros .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "folder . I think it's",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We're going to be here at eight o'clock . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's still in my own documents folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We're goin still going to be here at eight o'clock . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh shit .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I doubt it . Perhaps we've got features that don't exist in the Excel sheet .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah mm yeah , maybe .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} No ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The microphone . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it was in my uh my information , so uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It i It wasn't too much .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "maybe you're going scrap scrap it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "As well as the L_C_D_ screen . Whoa . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well this is it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , if it doesn't work {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um maybe I could ask one of you to uh fill it in , so that I can also uh take minutes ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I want to fill it in , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh maybe the other can uh use that thing to count uh numerous functions .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No prob . Ah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But you should uh direct {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Count it ? Li like write it be",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well we have to count some things and we have to think about some things . But you have to fill in this column , huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Count it . You got Excel to count . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The number of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , uh count uh number of functions , because for every button you have to pay {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and there are different screen shots , so {disfmarker} or different different screens ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I dra",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah , okay , cool .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh Danny , Danny , I'll do that ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh ? Yeah ? Oh , yea yeah , you design it . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because I draw the uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We've got a battery , one or t two batteries , or not ? nee one battery , with two small batteries .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it's it's more about the energy source , huh ? Do you use a hand dynamo , a battery , kinetic or solar cells ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I would do a battery {disfmarker} we do . Right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Solar cell . No",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We'll wait .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A battery . One battery ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , no solar cell , no no no no .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it took a battery ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No hand dynamo .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Electronics , simple chip {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Hand {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "advanced chip , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , we have sample speaker .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "On advanced chip .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But b al but we also have sample speaker , do",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so this one and this one . Uh we ha we have um single {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , we already on nine .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "what ? Are we ? Oh yay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We have double curved .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The single .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Single nee single curved . Double curved was uh uh see uh ju three dimensional .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Single .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it isn't three dimensional ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh the the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it isn't curved in a l",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This one is {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's not going to work uh people . We have rubber .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This one is curved like this ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'll just fill it in .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "right . It's curved like this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no no ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um rubber indeed ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "single curved is like this . Uh that's the only curve you made ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , bu what {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "not th uh curved like that . That's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , but we have curves like it and it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thirteen ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "There are two curves , right ? Oh , okay I understand , I understand .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "With a scroll wheel ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "right ? Is he integrated ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Rubber .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , eh ? I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Push button . No , we don't have push button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we gotta integrate scroll wheel and push button , because when you push it and you w it won't just pu uh makes possible to s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , right , we want it to {disfmarker} it's not it's not {disfmarker} no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not going to work ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "L_C_D_ display .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Fifteen , oh , too bad . {vocalsound} Oh but with special colour we have . A special form , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But now button supplements . We don't got the button supplements .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , we don't have any buttons , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Eighteen and a half ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we need to uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "damn .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Damn .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We have to lower it with six points .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , uh we have fifteen and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Twelve and half .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "oh , right . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We could lose the curve .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We could use {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I would lose the curve .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We could lose the scroll wheel . You could make it just a regular scroll wheel .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But you can't push it , so you have to tap .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , if you can't push it you have to tap the the options window uh button here and then uh scroll down with the d with uh {vocalsound} with uh the button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think that will be our best bet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So normal scroll wheel ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Normal scroll wheel .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I think we should lose the curve .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we should scrap the sample speaker .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Lose {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's four pri it four units .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but if you {disfmarker} would i it is a new feature , it it's something special .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we don't exactly need the single {disfmarker} We don't need a curve .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But w d wha",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , the curve doesn't really {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'S possible to lose curve .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Curved then it will be square .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , then it will {disfmarker} won't uh stand up from the table . Then it would just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Was that {disfmarker} does that mean to it , single curve ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's meant with scr uh with s curve .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The curve is uh in a dimension .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you make it a flat one , s n it's no curve , you got no curves .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} We would lose this one ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but tha that that only is one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we could s yeah , a bit .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sixteen point three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay , indeed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we still {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we also have to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is it possible to make {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Could could we do it on a regular chip on print or something ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , otherwise we don't have an L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No ? Ma y you just can't do that , or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And what did you change ? You changed the uh scroll wheel",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We changed th",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and the single curved to uncurved .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Single curved .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , but it's just one",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Flat . Yeah , so that does doesn't doesn't that mu I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "point , so maybe you should should uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Scrap sample speaker ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you should you should drop the speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The sample speaker is two d wait , f s four points .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That that's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it's t",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , four points .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then you can keep the curve .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it is uh it it is a new feature ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or can't you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it is something special .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh becau uh when you lose the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but what what else what else uh do you want to scrap ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "F You have to {disfmarker} we have to scrap four points .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's difficult . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or make it on a hand dynamo , but {vocalsound} I don't think that will work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ma make it with wood instead of rubber ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , that's {disfmarker} no .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Make it w uh when you made it uh uh uh a remote control of wood ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We could make it titanium instead of rubber .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You don't make a remote control of {disfmarker} Ah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it it i",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it also {disfmarker} uh it also takes one point less .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh a wooden remote control only helps for uh old people we discussed ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Oh can I ask something ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yes ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What is special colour ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is that the wood uh wood uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it is .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "this , we have to have that one too ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It isn't .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but it's only a half . But I think the only option is to drop the uh sample speaker .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Sample speaker .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "To knock the sample speaker , yeah . And sample sensor .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Th then we still have too much",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "if we use the uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But m yeah , course ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "three . Point three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we we scrap that one ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What we'll have . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's make it thirteen or fourteen . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "See , a po",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Point twelve {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "three . {vocalsound} We need point three . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's a scroll wheel . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's a colour . Don't make it wood .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but a wood {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Make it uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we can make it brown , dark brown , not wood .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it's it's special colour , is it a all kind of colours ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , special colours , fruity colours .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's also green or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is it also {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "no that that's just normal colour {disfmarker} fruit colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it's a special colour than just rubber colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Normal colours , yellow {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You have to add something to the rubber to make it green .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You don't say here's green rubber .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They don't sell green rubber plants . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but then I d I don't think we can ever make to a twelve and half .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can , you should {disfmarker} you have to lose {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But then we have to scrap L_C_D_ display , we have to scrap uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , it is the scroll wheel , I guess .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No no no .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "s advanced chip . No then we have to scrap everything we got because how many colours we gonna make ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If we lose the scroll wheel and make it totally uh depending uh dependent on uh the touch screen",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Five ? Then we have two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A push ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "touch .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} then it's possible to make . And then you can {vocalsound} and then you can add to the colours .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then we can make {disfmarker} add two colours on it . Yeah , two colours {gap} it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Special c",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Switch colours .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , if you lose uh {vocalsound} if you lose the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It was such a great idea . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You lose this one , you got eleven point five",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "They can add two colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and you make i and then you can make uh the spec single curve , for example .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But the colours . Um how ma uh the colours like l she told , is that all the colours we add or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How d uh uh how many colours ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What do you mean ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Special colours , all the colours you want , because you want to make p",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we we we are {disfmarker} we have yellow , red , uh black , titanium .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh when you use more than one colour , it's a special colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I think when you use the colour that's not originally the rubber then you use special colour ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I suppose .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'cause you have to add it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but the rubbers alls original black .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so you always lose the special colour . You co you could make it always black , like normal remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah b Yeah , but we're gonna make it yellow {disfmarker} uh red , and then you add {disfmarker} you have two special colours on top of the one we have now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nee we we also want to make ano another colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh right , yeah . Yeah , we should u",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but m",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . We have to make this like four or five or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's what it means .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because we have more colours than only black .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but isn't it per remote that you pay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} then I think I p I don I don't think they me mean they're special {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Half ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh right , yeah . Is it per remote ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think you pay half per remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , that's right ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So each remote with a special colour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and you {disfmarker} one colour per remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , indeed , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So then it is one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You don't need four of those {vocalsound} uh four of those special colours in one in one remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay okay , true . True , true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I hope . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We have two points spare .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So the battery ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nee one point .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we have um advanced chip on print .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One . So it would be curved , single curve .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because of {disfmarker} thing {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or not ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well you can at least make it curved again .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So y you just can't make a nice remote . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , single curve .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because that was very important ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's too bad for the speaker .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "huh ? So it's curved , it's still that {disfmarker} so we we dropped the speech recognition together with the speaker .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Should we change that tha that that's a one if not ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We dropped the scroll wheel .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or not ? Could you copy it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the rest is the same ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And make it uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "huh ? Am I right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Y yea the scroll wheel is dropped .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The entire uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh . Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps you can then copy page or so . Ooh . No . Oh you you made the entire {disfmarker} could you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Undo , undo . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Undo .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "not {disfmarker} Well {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , 'kay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Would you ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Twenty minutes ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "By the {disfmarker} Perhaps you can save this one , and then copy or something . Add it copy page . Select all .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , but you c yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright , something went wrong .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Tap .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but this this new remote we can afford . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't work . Let's forget .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It should've work .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so you had this list at start ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ? No , I hadn't .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright . When did you receive this list ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I just received it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Oh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They don't work so hard at the finance department . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "ignore that . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Well , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah okay . I suppose this is a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Too bad .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we lose the scroll wheel ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . The microphone .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and that's it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the microphone .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A and we changed something , I guess , or not ? We {disfmarker} Oh no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Twelve Euro fifty . Um and did you try to make a new design , or what were you trying to do ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I tried to copy that one , but it didn't work .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It didn't work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we could fix it like tha that it's like this . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Strange .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You could select it all , but then you can't erase . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Strange .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , you can arrange {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can only re erase ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Erase .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "When you saw th li uh {disfmarker} Earlier when we selected it , w I couldn't erase anything .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , no .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm , can't you then just say copy ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Bling .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "New page . Paste . Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Select none . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just tap somewhere .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} just up somewhere b uh besides it ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} just tap somewhere .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and now you can erase .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't think I can , but uh we can try .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , we already try .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well it should be possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "no , ha-ha .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well you can draw over it with white uh pen . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we tried it earlier .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's very much work .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well but that's also useful for the evaluation , because I think uh we have a prototype now",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Evaluation drops .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "which we can afford and uh we only need to draw a little bit to get a good uh design . Doodle . And I think we should then move on to the production evaluation because of the time .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And erase the mic .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , goodbye mic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "All I need is no mic . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Let's see , we can save this now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , I already erased half of the line .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Bon chance {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And move back to here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Too bad , oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like this ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Still looks nice .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And then all green . Okay , well thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , that's erase .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Looks like a iPod .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , no {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hey , but you can erase that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "add {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's a bit weird .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh-oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , now I'm {gap} line .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S Difference between lines and text and the pen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . All I need is {gap} mic . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you can't erase this ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm , strange .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's weird . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "just leave it at this and quickly save .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Station page .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um and then we are going to the project or product evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh , looks fucking boring now . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We just did {gap} our project evaluation . Um well , I think I can sit for that since it's almost my final slide . Um what did you think about uh the process ? How satisfied are we ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Deadlines were sometimes very short .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Bu but stressful . You think , no , my presentation isn't ready .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And stressful .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we {disfmarker} it should be b it would be better if we worked a little bit together .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Now we worked through each other ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you could ask things .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you had information I didn't have",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "something he said {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and then uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah , and you had information I also had ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh right . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so some some things I had in my presentation , they already told ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And for me it sometimes was a surprise who was going to present what , huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So yeah , that {disfmarker} I don't think that is the best way to work at {disfmarker} for such project .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you would say uh communicate during our individual uh work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , no , or maybe session of five minutes together or something , and then work separate .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but but why not work here together , for example ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you could {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Why should we be separated from each other in those difference {disfmarker} uh different rooms ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Well , probably to simulate the whole working uh process ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think so too . Yeah , but then you can work together too",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "huh , th {gap} you can't have a meeting uh for several weeks .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "when {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah m yeah , like she told . Then you can work together too by mail or by , I dunno , chat , something ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A chat would also be uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh , oh right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but now we're completely separated from each other . I don't think that was the best way , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But the technology was uh fantastic . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the technology's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I I don't really like the board , it doesn't really work great . Sometimes I think {vocalsound} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Work now ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay , but I don I do I think becau that's because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps it is e",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It does work , but sometimes it doesn't erase or it doesn't uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , perhaps it is easier to get one of those uh dig digital pens or so and to uh {disfmarker} and lay it next to that keyboard over there .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you can draw uh {disfmarker} see it over th on the screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , like the f like a plotters or something ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah . Yep yep yep yep yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you don't think the SMARTboard is is really useful",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's useful , but not m",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it is useful ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it is useful , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but it doesn't really work all the time .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Th the pen doesn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because when you put this pen on the screen uh uh for exam and line is d being drawn at at two or three centimetres uh below .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The line is a bit off .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so it's maybe a bit unnatural also .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you can point to where you want the line to be . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The project uh {disfmarker} because of the deadlines you didn't had the time to uh {disfmarker} have , you didn't have time to uh {disfmarker} to make a very uh qualitati qualitative uh presentation .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you used uh this uh the different PowerPoint presentations uh in which you put your uh material in the {disfmarker} Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That wasn't me . Uh {vocalsound} so um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Wasn't me .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the means , we discussed the smart board , and what about uh this digital pen ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I I used it ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I didn't use it at all . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it it was {disfmarker} you can use it , it's quite handy I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I didn't {disfmarker} I uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I use it as a a normal pen and and and only you use it to uh get it on the computer ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I used it to y to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it did work pretty well .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I used it too , but {disfmarker} oh well .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think why you would want to use it actually ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I didn't use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but it it does work . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because it shou",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To make some designs ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It is it is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it is very easy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah , it is easy for {disfmarker} to design something and then load it in your computer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and then you can show it to everybody .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But to write it th yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't really write normally .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's b bi little bit too big to write .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's a bit {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's too big , it's too fat .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Fat document , those .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , um and what about the teamwork ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think it was great ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Team work was okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well I think so too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Only thing that we worked through , past each other .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but that was {disfmarker} it was our assignment ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With some things that was only problem ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it was because we didn't uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but furthermore better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and maybe I should walk out of the room when you discuss uh this point , the leadership . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I thought it was good , but uh {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah , no prob . Ah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not too much , not too too too too {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And creativity ? Well , when we look at this I'd say we have been creative ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "huh ? But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , or the room for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There was room for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it was the idea to be creative , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You got some standard ideas in your head {vocalsound} and this what came out .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you get get stuff from the from the computer ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The information uh was sometimes uh a little bit too late",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Little bit uh lo yeah . Too late {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it it it took a lot of time before you got your ema",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You just sit there for ten minutes . Yeah , {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "where is that email ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I played I think seven times Solitaire something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You did ? Well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I didn't have time for that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "did you ? Is it on there ? {vocalsound} Is it on there ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Wha",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I didn't find the {disfmarker} didn't look but uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "At some times I {disfmarker} Sometimes I received like like five emails at at one moment ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Was searching and searching .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh right ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I didn't look ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it is there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I I never got that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I always {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I got like one email after ten minutes or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I even got spam . {vocalsound} Or something like that . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "N yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's what we said . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So does this {disfmarker} I think lik oh and information was a bit low I think , sometimes ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it {disfmarker} not a lot uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "in in in in the beginning I didn't understand what what to do .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , the first one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , w I didn't know {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I didn't know uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , like I {disfmarker} with with the remote {gap} and I never new we have t we had to uh {disfmarker} yeah made a made a rec a remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Make a r",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "nee .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I didn't know what to do for the first ten minutes before we got here ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so I went , right . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . No stepping on the table and then looking at the internet page .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I was working and working and work {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just looking at the screen and uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} but after all we can say uh we are satisfied , but it it could've been uh better .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When we get uh {disfmarker} when we have {disfmarker} we would have gotten uh more information .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , an",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Faster .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "more information about the costs .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that will be handy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "First of all I didn't think uh that we were able to make an L_C_D_ screen uh {disfmarker} first point ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but uh it was possible uh {disfmarker} uh , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it only costs four units . Uh {vocalsound} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yea uh so tha actually you could make an L_C_D_ screen but no mic , or it could make mic but no L_C_D_ screen , when you look at that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that was a bit mean to put it in the end .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh what were the other points to to improve this whole process ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I dunno .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Think that's about it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nothing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we got it already .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Heavier um {disfmarker} less heavy laptops .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they're pretty heavy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh . Faster laptop .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh . They were they were just fine .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But that's not really uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And furthermore the the the network was okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Everything you loaded was also",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , everything worked .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "av available there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And so more time uh w might have improved the the quality of work ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "is what you say .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , but that {disfmarker} It's now half past four {disfmarker} half past three , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it's just the the off hours between that you will work alone .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then it pops up {disfmarker} pop up screen came . Five minutes in the meeting .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hm . Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so more time during the individual work phases . Um okay well uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I just got my warning for the last five minutes , so I'll move on to I guess my last slide ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You did ? Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yes , which is the closing . Well uh , we managed , but we did it very quickly . I don't know if that's the best way to {disfmarker} when it isn't {disfmarker} is it {disfmarker} when it is too expensive to quickly re-arrange it and say , okay , this is it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but we had to do it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "huh , because we have to have a design , and that is within the budget . And we evaluated . Maybe we should re-evaluate uh the product , but we did that before , and we also evaluated the project . And I think uh everybody's uh very happy . At least I am , with the results ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so uh celebration , well , for the three of you ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because uh I have to write the final report now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Champagne . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh {vocalsound} well , thank you very much for your co-operation ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and I had a very nice day so far . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No prob .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do we get another email ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Bling . {vocalsound} You're fired .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think you do .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I I think we have to fill in a questionnaire again ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I have t",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we also have to go to our own rooms again , but um {disfmarker} well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We do ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I at least . But maybe you can try uh to make a screen shot of this , so I can try to include it in the final report .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh th that that one ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You cannot {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you can save it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} wants to , but at least this one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it's {disfmarker} it isn't a picture or , well , is it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I know , we should remove this ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You s uh file save as the J_ PEG J_ PEG .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but it won't h Okay . And uh please put it in the project folder then , huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can you find it as a J_ PEG ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "isn't possible . But you can make a screen shot , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well I uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I hereby officially close the meeting and uh I hope to see you uh soon . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} In uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} In about five minutes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh oh ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "export .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we'll be a bit a bit longer ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} okay . Well , happy celebration , huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Images .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Whoo-hoo . Let's let's have party . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Celebra {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How big do you want the images ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or shouldn't I ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's have some fun . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How big ? Uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "not too big . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This one ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Whatever you think is good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Six hundred . No ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that uh is one thousand twenty four . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think eight hundred six hundred is better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This one ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If it browse .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Nah , name . {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Desktop .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well it isn't on the desktop .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hey .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I do not know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can only save it in my documents .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh my God .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , alright . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ten .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Can we stay here ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ten .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , alright .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Why can't we stay here ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Celebration time , come on . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Peace out nigger . Entree",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
TS3006a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"266"
]
],
"topic": "Equipment adjustment and icebreaker activities"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"267",
"346"
]
],
"topic": "Pricing and individual task assignment"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"347",
"370"
]
],
"topic": "User requirements of the new remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"371",
"493"
]
],
"topic": "Emphasis on the basic function and function extendibility"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "In their first meeting, the team members got familiar with each other through some icebreaker games. Project Manager started to introduce the new remote control project with the team's financial goal. The unit price was determined to be 25 Euros. The production of each remote control would cost 12.5 Euros. The team would have to make sales amounting to 50 million Euros. Project Manager continued to assign individual tasks to the team members. Industrial Designer had worked out a rough plan for the first phase and would produce a working design. User Interface was supposed to specify the technical functions. Marketing would be responsible for market research. Users mainly expect the remote control to be user-friendly and handy. The team decided to focus on the basic functions at the first stage but make sure the extendibility of the functions as well.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager informed the team of the price issue and the financial goal. The unit price was determined to be 25 Euros. The production of each remote control would cost 12.5 Euros. The team would have to make sales amounting to 50 million Euros. Project Manager assigned individual tasks to the team members. Industrial Designer had worked out a rough plan for the first phase and would produce a working design. User Interface was supposed to specify the technical functions. Marketing would be responsible for market research.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about pricing and individual task assignment?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"267",
"346"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer had started making an overview of the project's three phases respectively. In the present phase, Industrial Designer focused on the basic function of the remote control. Batteries would be incorporated in the remote control to supply energy. Users would press buttons to activate or deactivate certain functions on the TV. In addition, Project Manager suggested that the remote control would use infrared light to communicate the signal to the TV apparatus or stereo. Industrial Designer agreed.",
"query": "Summarize Industrial Designer's opinions towards individual task assignment.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"292",
"315"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "From a marketing perspective, the present function design phase consisted of user requirements. Marketing would mainly do internet research to get users' feedback on existing products. Meanwhile, Marketing would find out the shortcomings of the current remote controls. According to the research results, the team could optimize their design. Marketing added that the team would probably be inspired by early remote control adopters.",
"query": "Summarize Marketing's opinions towards individual task assignment.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"327",
"346"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Regretfully, Marketing did not get specific user requirements for now. Instead, User Interface made a contribution to the discussion. Users mainly expected the remote control to be user-friendly. To be more specific, the button size ought to be regular, and the remote control was expected to be a handy and small unit. It would be more satisfying if the zapping range was big enough so that the remote control could work from a distance.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about user requirements of the new remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"347",
"370"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer asked whether the remote control would be a multimedia product. Marketing also hoped to know the answer, for the team would have to decide what functions to incorporate in the remote control. Project Manager suggested that the team should first have a basic starting point and extend to other functions in the following meetings.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about the emphasis on the basic function and function extendibility?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"371",
"493"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing suggested that the remote control could only have one button and connect with Windows media center under the TV. The remote control could thus operate different devices at the same time. However, Industrial Designer pointed out that it would not be feasible to have only one button, for the remote control would need several other buttons for a video player, such as the play, the fast forward, and the stop button.",
"query": "Why did Industrial Designer disagree with Marketing about the design of only one button when discussing the emphasis on the basic function and function extendibility?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"438",
"473"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} We're the first .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . We're the first ones . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Marketing Expert , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you found your spots .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Move to the meeting room . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Bling bling . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {vocalsound} where has my screen gone ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hello , good day . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , we have to talk in English ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . My screen is gone .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's called black . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Kick-off meeting , wow . It's uh looks uh nice .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm afraid I'm a bit slow for this stuff uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm afraid I'm a bit too slow . {vocalsound} I don't know how much preparation you guys did ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but not a lot .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , it's {disfmarker} it was uh not enough .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You see this beautiful presentation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Very nice .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay let's get started .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I sort of prepared this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh opening acquaintance , tool training , uh how to use the things here . Uh project plan discussion , and yeah then the rest of the meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um we're supposed to develop a new remote control , that's both original , trendy and user-friendly . So ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "hope you have good ideas . I don't . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I did my best .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um we're work we're working uh from top to bottom . Uh functional design ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not yet .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "then we do some in individual work , then we have a meeting to discuss the results , etcetera etcetera . And at the end of the day we should have a prototype drawn up . Uh we have available the smart board and the whiteboard . Um uh we should take some practice . I have some instructions now to do that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh well you know how to {disfmarker} the documents work . So {disfmarker} Uh this for toolbar . You see it next . Um we have a pen . And we can use this pen to perform . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Operations .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't always work . Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay so you can draw .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Draw . Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay and in the format menu you can select colour and line width , etcetera etcetera . Okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Okay . Each of you can uh take some practice and you should draw an animal . Uh you should explain {disfmarker} Uh with different colours and with different pen widths .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And you should explain why you draw that particular animal .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Don't take up too much space . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , Julian .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Different pen widths , how do you do that ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh with the format menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And use different colours etcetera .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a giraffe . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And {vocalsound} what's that supposed to be ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Are you serious ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Should it be one {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . {vocalsound} Oh yeah",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "four legs . Uh-huh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Giraffe's yellow . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh it needs some uh some yellow uh {disfmarker} Oh format .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Can you use one blank sheet per drawing ? Or",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so y you must save it at the end",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you can press the next button , which is uh {disfmarker} yeah . I'll show you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's some spots .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I in the file option menu .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . In file menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "then m make a new one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "How much time do we have to draw anyway ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause I can take forever on this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Do I have to explain uh why I chose this uh this animal ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think it's a it's a great animal .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What is it ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a it's a giraffe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A giraffe okay . Yeah I see a long neck",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's more like a dinosaur . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} Okay I'll will give it an uh an eye .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . That's nice of you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hey . Come on .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Some leaf to eat . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah pretty good . Uh could you press the next uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The next ? Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Then uh {disfmarker} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Here you go . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Thanks .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is this part of our a acquai or introduction to each other ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sorry , introduction and get acquainted",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's the idea , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh . Your line broke .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's a bit slow ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's not that fast .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I see . It misses the spot .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} pressure .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm guessing a turtle . No . {vocalsound} I'm kidding .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I say good guess . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Why a turtle ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because of its shell .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because it's slow . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's slow .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Cause it's so",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You were slow too",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause it's green . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I was a bit slow too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Dude you're a good drawer .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh some other line uh width uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do you have a turtle pet ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I dunno . {vocalsound} Does it have legs ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah not exactly legs but {disfmarker} More like fins",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Stumpy stuff .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's more like a tank . Yeah that's fins",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "They kind of l look like mole legs . With sharp nails on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I don't know where . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Some spots . Ah some eye .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's l looks very friendly . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's a fr {vocalsound} friendly turtle I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well I think it's uh fair enough .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A little tail maybe .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right . {vocalsound} I don't know what the position is . {vocalsound} Does it have ears ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh no .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . Oh okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The little holes maybe .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Can you erase ears",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "There's a a gum ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "gum to {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Eraser .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And why did you choose this animal ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "He said it was slow .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno . I it just came into my mind . So there's no particular reason",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I {gap} pen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I like it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well I'm {disfmarker} guess I'm done .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's my turtle .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Your turn Niels .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How to select the next or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The next",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Colours were under format",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Makes new paper .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Here you go .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "right ? Let's see .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Orange .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How am I gonna do this ? Um {disfmarker} Mm uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A rabbit I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Kangaroo .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Kangaroo . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Not quite actually .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Fox .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A fox yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Dog .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Firefox .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Cat .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Aye . {vocalsound} It's a cat .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a cat .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not quite yet through .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A cat who had an accident or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Why a cat ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah I dunno . They're my favourite pets .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You have some uh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh I have colour already . Yeah I'm not so good at drawing with this kind of",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The pen ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "st Oh shit . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Excuse my language .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sure . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know how to draw its face . But you get the idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Alright .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's a cat . It's my favourite uh pet animal , 'cause they're cute , they're independent and cuddly , I dunno . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or do I need to use more colours and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} I think it's okay . You get idea",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "right ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we have a financial aspect to this project . {vocalsound} Um we can sell them at twenty five Euros . Uh the aim is to reach {disfmarker} uh uh to sell as much as fifty million Euros . Uh that's quite a big amount of money . And the production cost should be the half of the selling price . Okay",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we have to s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "now it's time for some discussion . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What uh what uh do you want to discuss ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We should get started .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I'm taking notes . Um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Great .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we each have a specific task , as I saw in my mail . I didn't know if you received the same mail .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I guess so . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay so the um {vocalsound} uh {gap} this industrati Industrial Designer should produce a working design . Am I correct ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh the User Interface Designer should specify the technical functions . Right ? Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And the Marketing uh Expert should come up with user requirements .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh did any of you already do some work on this part or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well I started making an overview for myself , um what I had to do , 'cause we have three design steps and in every step I have a s specific task to perform or whatever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I had to uh , {vocalsound} I dunno , make an overview for myself about what I have to do ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and kind of let it work in to get ideas about well how I have to fill it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . And do you have any ideas about the product uh so far ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I started I started with the first phase , I think was the functional .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh let's see I had to focus on the working design , which you said .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How does the apparatus work ? And well I basically had two points . Uh {vocalsound} according to the coffee uh machine example , I have batteries to supply energy ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and we ye use button presses to activate or deactivate certain functions on the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And that's basically all I have so far .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I got another point . It uses infrared light to communicate the signal to the T_V_ apparatus or stereo .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Wireless uh {disfmarker} huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that's very common .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's uh some buttons for for the on off function . You d you already told that . And for the changing up to the {disfmarker} to all the channels and changing the volume . That are the the basic options for a remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah I kept it global 'cause {vocalsound} {disfmarker} that it activates or deactivates specific functions ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'cause I wasn't thinking yet about that . I mean , you wanna ch ch flip the channel",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but you might wanna use teletext also .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I dunno what the word is in English . Uh {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Same I believe {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh and what did the Marketing Expert do ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh well from a marketing uh {vocalsound} perspective , um well the function des design phase uh consists out of the user requirements .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um what needs and desires are to be fulfilled ? So there are a few means to reach that um by by doing research {vocalsound} uh to see what existing products are there out in the market .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean , what functions do they have .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um especially what are their shortcomings ? Are there any new functions uh which can be added to our product ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um therefore we have to to do some internet search . For example for um well what kind of applications do current remote controls support , and what are f featur features of uh current and future televisions ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we can see uh what needs to be supported . Um {vocalsound} and we can interview current users and future users . What w what would they like to see uh on a new remote control ? Um especially for future users ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh I'm thinking of early adopters , because they they use new technology first ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and they play with a lot of tools and stuff so maybe they have some good ideas to uh to add .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And you can get that information ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think I can get that information , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . That would be very handy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um but have you any idea so far as what uh the user requirements are ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No n not specifically .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "More to how to get them",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I got some uh requirements",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it has uh {gap} it has to be user-friendly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Of course .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Obviously .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh really easy to use buttons , not not uh very small buttons , but not the the also the big big buttons , but just normal buttons . It has to be a small unit . It has to be uh {disfmarker} yeah , you can take it with you uh everywhere in in your house . So it has n has not to be l yeah , gigantic uh machine .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Big , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh and a and a good uh zapping range . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh what do you mean by that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh the distance uh from your television to your uh remote control has to be , uh yeah um yeah , quite a big distance .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It has to be capable for zapping uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . From the other end of the room or something ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay um {disfmarker} Well I don't think I have anything more to add at the moment . Um I think the best is to go to work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Whoa . Is that you",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker} alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Any more points to discuss ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think we can go ahead with what we have . I will summarise the things we discussed and put it in the project folder . Uh the use of the Industrial Designer can work on the working design , etcetera etcetera . And it seems you get more information by email . So {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that was it for me .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . Thanks .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Are you going to put the the notes on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , in the project folder . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . The pro okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm writing very fast . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hope it's readable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay {vocalsound} um anything more you want to add to the discussion ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I guess so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well no I'm just a bit wondering what we're gonna do the next uh session ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Do we only have to to do uh phase one , the functional design uh ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Because then we have a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "After that we are going to the conceptual uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Y you do some individual work ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We're just working the three phases .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we have meeting , individual work , meeting . And at the end of the day we have a final meeting . And then I have to prepare {disfmarker} uh I have to defend our design ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so make it good . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay . We'll do our best .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I depend on you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Better make it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I am gonna work on the conceptual design already 'cause yeah it's fairly important to know what kind of components we want to put in .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? If you can mix it it's okay . Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do we {disfmarker} I mean , is it gonna be a multimedia control centre ? Do we want to be able to use the video recorder with it ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} That is my question also",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because like new new functions {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I think that is the user requirements part .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Requirements . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "As to what they want . Uh do they want all those functions on that small {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . True .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But but we need good communication about this stuff ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Unit .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause I have to f put the components into the design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I would first m",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So if I don't know what components to put in , it's kind of hard .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I understand .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I I was {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I I think we have first to start with the basic functions and we can uh expand them .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can always add a few {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "well like l li like some like some some remotes who are out there , which I know , there's one button which is very easy to switch between devices .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you can switch to your video",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and then the same buttons control your video .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "the C_D_ player . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And another function I'll think of switch to your media centre , because that's getting very popular .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then use your Windows media centre {vocalsound} under your T_V_ with the same remote control . So with the switch , one single switch {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I I know what you mean , but you'll ne need several other buttons for a video player .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "S",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You need a play and a forw fast forward and a stop function .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And you you don't need that for a T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "records and stuff like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And and for a t uh teletext you need additional buttons as well ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You need additional {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so I kind of need to know what we uh need .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Whatever , I'll just put my ideas in uh in here",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and then we can discuss it with the next uh meeting .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "In the project uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We could just start with the assumption that's only for T_V_ and video . And um reserve the possibility to add other features .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we have a basic starting point",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and you can always extend that so make sure it's extendible . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it it has yeah it has to be user-friendly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it's hasn't {gap} {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Th the least amount of functions possible",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so it's easier to get to know how it works etcetera .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I understand . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Okay and uh I'll see you again uh when the computer tells us to .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , you're di dismissed .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can we leave now",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Half an hour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Thanks . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You're fired . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Not yet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright let's move on .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's see what we got to do .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} See you later .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah see you later .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Good luck . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well good luck . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
}
] |
TS3006b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"357"
]
],
"topic": "Personal presentations on the design, the functions and the target users of the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"358",
"718"
]
],
"topic": "Ideal functions and button layout of the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"719",
"969"
]
],
"topic": "Assignments for each role that what they should prepare for the more detailed design"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The whole meeting was about what the group should do for the remote control, from a good-looking appearance to a joyful user experience. At the beginning, the group had individual presentations about their previous research findings. Through those presentations, all of the four got a general idea about the target market, the functions and the layout. They talked about the functions carefully as well as the interface design of the remote control later on. Finally, under the leadership of the Project Manager, all the members got some assignments for their next detailed design.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "According to the Marketing, the research finding showed that the current users are older than forty, which is to say that they have to aim the consumers at below forty as long as they want a new market. As for the User Interface, he thought an extra function was needed to hide all the features and display a clear menu. Of course, some fashionable functions would also be welcomed. Then the group came to realize that it would be really hard to compromise between the functions and the fashion.",
"query": "Summarize the ideas of the individual presentations on the design, the functions and the target users of the remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"357"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As per his research, the Marketing found that the existing remote controls were not satisfactory in terms of their appearance and feel. In addition, some remote controls were not easy to find and very hard to master. What was also worth mentioning was that some details like the brightness of the screen and the colors needed improvement as well.",
"query": "What did the Marketing think about previous remote controls when giving his presentation on the design,the functions and the target users?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"109",
"123"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The User Interface put forward to add an extra function to the remote control to make it be able to hide some features and display a clear menu. The Project Manager was in favor of this design for that it would be easy to find those really essential functions on the menu more easily.",
"query": "Why did the Project Manager agree with the User Interface when discussing their presentations on the design, the functions and the target users of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"252",
"264"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "To maximize the satisfaction of the users, the first thing should be confirmed is that the power button should be put on the right top where it can be reached with a thumb easily. Then like all the remote controls, they should have up and down for the channels and left and right for the volume. Besides, the button for the screen brightness was also important. To make their remote control unique, the User Interface proposed to add their logo on it.",
"query": "Summarize the ideal functions and button layout of the remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"358",
"718"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "During their discussion of the button layout, the first agreement they achieved was that the power button should be put on the top of the remote control. Then the Project Manager proposed to put it on the right that most people are right-handed, however, considering that a few would be left-handed, the Marketing put forward to design some special additions to meet such need.",
"query": "What did the Marketing recommend to do when discussing the ideal functions and the button layout of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"421",
"433"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The User Interface proposed to add a logo on the remote control, but the problem came that it did matter much how to locate the screen and the logo. At first the Marketing planned to put the logo on the left top but then he elaborated himself that the logo should be the last one to be considered that it would be put wherever space was left, instead of letting the logo decide where the screen would be put.",
"query": "What did the Marketing think of the screen location when discussing the ideal functions and the button layout of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"499",
"511"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hello {vocalsound} . 'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You all saw the newsflash ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or you got the same message ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I I just saw it one minute ago .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah sorry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "When I uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I didn't see it yet I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Newsflash ? D did I miss something ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah I received an email so I thought I I can't mail you so I thought I'd just drop it in the folder , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah pretty much .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hey what's wrong with my computer ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is it unlocked ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah that's my presentation . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Woah . I uh kind of opened it {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think you have to uh change your desktop uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "size .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ooh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . Everybody ready ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not really .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sorry .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No no no . Yes yes yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} computer is uh not functioning ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Where do I find this ? I'm not so g display huh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh display .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then uh settings ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Appearance ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm I'm not sure I {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You read the newsflash ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . Can we get started",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No what was it about ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or is there some pressing issue ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah my computer is not functioning properly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh no pressing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Did you plug in the power cable when you come back ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah . No but my screen is reduced in size . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . That's difficult . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Feedback .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} alt delete . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Format . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Format save .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . So it doesn't draw the attention away .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This is dreadful .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I made uh uh my own map .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah sure .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No not this , but the task .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You have Playstation also ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} No that's okay . No I just flapped it , closed it , took it here and then this happened . Ah . Uh {disfmarker} where was it ? In settings ? Okay . Alright . Thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do you guys like your tasks ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I spent a lot of time thinking about what I was gonna do and then a couple of minutes before this I get my function you know the information that I need .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah wa wa you actually {disfmarker} Yeah . But it it's not clear what you have to to to type uh type in your presentation .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So frustrating .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I I had a whole idea and then just was typing it and then oh . I have to do that so switch .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {disfmarker} Yeah exactly . This presentation is mainly based on my own ideas 'cause I hadn't time to intergrate tha the information yet so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Really annoying .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So there we are again .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "By your humble P_M_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay this is the agenda . Um we have three presentations , I heard .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Really . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah really . {vocalsound} So who wants to start ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's fine {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We have to start it right away ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh this is you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Functional ? Yeah functional requirements .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright . I'm gonna talk about functional requirements . Um {disfmarker} Well uh some research has be done uh has been done . Uh observing of one hundred uh subjects in the usability lab using a remote control . Uh and they also filled in a questionnaire . The findings were um , well you can see them for yourself . They disliked the look-and-feel of current remotes controls . {vocalsound} Users think they're ugly . Um {vocalsound} they do not match the the operating behaviour of the users . So they they d they don't match what they want to have on it . Um {vocalsound} they are often lost somewhere in the room . Um it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote control . And they're bad for R_S_I_ . {vocalsound} I don't know uh how a user can reach that but okay . Um {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ts",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "there is also uh was also some research on uh the most relevant and and and irrelevant uh f functions . Uh most irrelevant and less used were audio settings , mono , stereo , uh pitch , bass . Um screen settings for brightness and colour and stuff like that . Um but they are used . I mean the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So they do need to be in the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah they do need to be on the on the remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean if you can't control the the sound settings {disfmarker} I mean if you dislike a very uh loud bass or something , you you need to change that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} often .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um yeah we have to .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "By the way my T_V_ doesn't have an equ equaliser but",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We c we c Yeah I mean w we can't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Next generation does . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "my my T_V_ has ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound} Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but we we can leave them uh away . Uh most relevant , uh most used functions , uh they speak for themselves I guess . Uh power button , uh channel , volume selection . Uh teletext but we can skip that because I saw the newsflash , and teletext is so outdated that it it's i should not be used uh any more in the future .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "N not used anymore .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So forget this one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh channel settings , so for programming uh your channels in in the right order .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "By the way where did you guys get that newsflash from ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} I was wondering uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I didn't get anything .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {vocalsound} on on the project uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Not by mail . I receiv the mail but you don't . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But you you've got more information than {disfmarker} uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No so it's a text file n in the project folder . So teletext can be skipped .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's in the presentation , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um there was some research on new features in a remote control . Uh about an L_C_D_ screen uh and speech recognition . Well we got an update for the for the audience . Or the the the targeted group . So it's above forty I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh below I believe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The new product ? Or below {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah below forty .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because that's pretty relevant .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I thought I read a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Our current customers are in the age group forty plus .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And the new product should reach new markets , which is the customers below forty .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Below ? Okay well {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But where did you get uh that information ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's in a newsflash .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "that's that's in the newsfla",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay that's a good to know . Um because you see see a clear distinction between the age groups , concerning the features .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean uh above forty people are not so interested uh not so interested in a screen or speech recognition . Uh but below that age they uh they pretty much are . So I think we can build that in . Um {disfmarker} Yeah well we can skip this part as well , because I thought I read above forty so we could skip the features , but we just have to build them in because uh they find it very interesting . Um well we have to keep all the classic functions but make the buttons as user-friendly as possible . Um and and also there's {disfmarker} so not only the design of the bus uh buttons but o how you can push them , and stuff like that . So the physical uh aspect of it . Um {disfmarker} And I think {disfmarker} and certainly for for the for the lower age groups , uh nice design , which uh does not make the remote control {gap} in your room .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's it's actually a part of your interior , of of your design in your room . So it's {vocalsound} the people can say , well what's that , well that's my remote control , so it's d it has to look nice and feel nice , and and have all the functions that uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But it also needs to have corporate identity .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so the the logo has to be",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Present and the colours .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh present yeah , and the colours as well .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So we can't change much of that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do we have {disfmarker} uh yeah {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so but I I don't think that's that's a problem because the thing has to have a colour anyway , and most of the times there is a brand present on it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I think that's not gonna gonna affect it very uh very much .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well that are the the consequences uh on a marketing uh part .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} 'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's open already so you can use {gap} to",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "find yours .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . It's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "F_ five .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "F_ five . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Go Jurgen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . What is this ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How do I uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You pressed alt F_ four ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No no no . I pressed the mouse button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh great . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker} th that's the self-destruct button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe you can do it from your computer so talk us through it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Um if you all go stand around uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Just {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Computer {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's nice . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "F_ five . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I uh had uh two examples .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um this one is the the yeah the advanced one with a lot of options and functions and buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This the easy one",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we have to to combine them . And uh yeah merge the best functions of all examples .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um but yeah the the age is uh under forty ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and and and marketing research stated that that that kind of users are not afraid of of a lot of functions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we {disfmarker} Okay so so we have the option for more functions .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So not not too much but {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And we do have to integrate the screen and the the speech {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the speech recognition yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah this this one we can remove for kids . It's just only for adults so uh we can uh use some advanced options . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah from age of sixteen so yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but I prefer we we uh use the the basic options uh yeah . We have to to make them very easy so for just uh zapping around the channels you can just push one button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But if you want to to use your your video recorder or something else , you should use use an uh an advanced option .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but uh the the newsflash also stated that it should control only one device , only your television .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay one device .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So n it's very easy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . I didn't see {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So w",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now yeah it's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay and I also uh yeah . W yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So there are not extra options in this case , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We have to make it fashionable . Like you uh said uh before .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah the basic functions . Um yeah only use a extra function if they are really needed .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so maybe you can hide them or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well what what we can do with the screen is is all the the configuration options , you can put that in the screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you make a screen menu or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the and the {disfmarker} yeah screen menu to to to uh to do that ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then the basic function just on the device itself .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it looks very simple and all the advanced features are hidden in the screen , uh with a clear menu .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and the other oth other uh functionality is the screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What does the screen do ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Did I uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh . {vocalsound} What are {disfmarker} wh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's low power .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "did I break it ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So what does the screen do ? They said they needed it but what does it do ? What do they want with the screen ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "For for the advanced functions I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's what we make it up .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well it {gap} yeah it didn't",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So but what did the marketing {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it didn't say what they want to do with the screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I , my guess is it's it's pretty handy for advanced uh advanced functions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay it's handy . With no predefined uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like searching for channels and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah look .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah searching for channels , programming them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We have your uh {disfmarker} oh never mind . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We're back online . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . That's uh {disfmarker} I'm al I'm almost finished so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um the {disfmarker} we have to to to watch out for the {disfmarker} i if we make it f very fashionable , it it the functional functionality will go down . So we have to make uh a compromise between functionality and fashional fashionable",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Content and form .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah content and form .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Now that that was uh was the end .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That was the end . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well my presentation is a bit uh sucky . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well you can improvise right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh which one is it ? Technical functions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah a little bit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh no . No no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Functional requirements ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I think that would be it then . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You didn't put it in ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I have no idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we we can go for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That w {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} it's not really English . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Let me check . I know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh kick off . Oh working design I got it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we can go for the look-and-feel of the the left example , and then a screen on top of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Here you go .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright how do I uh skip pages ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just uh press uh {disfmarker} yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The keys yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright . Um yeah well I was working on this before I got my information . So I was just working off the top of my head and using my colin common knowledge about uh remote controls .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And well the info on the website which came too late .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um so I didn't really know what kind of functions we had to put into it yet .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh uh this is basically an overview of what we discussed in our last uh meeting . Those were my uh starting points .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh I was working on a s yeah on a schedule , and I was supposed to do it like this . But um yeah then uh the information came and it was kind of exact with all the steps in the remote control that I had to follow , so I was trying to organise them for myself .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then make the",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Design yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the design , a the actual design ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Design ? Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but I never came around to do that . So I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to say about it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I mean everything speaks for itself I guess . Mean you press a button um {vocalsound} the it tru goes , it sends a signal to a chip ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "which uh translates it into infrared signal of certin spatial frequencies .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah frequency . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh or temporal fr frequencies actually . And then uh through a uh transformer , it the signal gets boosted and then sent to the to the receiver on the T_V_",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah decoder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and the T_V_ will translate it into a function . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah well this was actually {vocalsound} all I got around to do .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Blank . Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I mean I dunno if I'm too slow for this stuff , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Work harder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay shou should we make a list of the of all the functions we want uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Whatever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we want to incorporate in uh into it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . Um for those that didn't see yet um the basic new requirements of the management were no teletext , only for T_V_ . Uh it should be designed for a use g uh group below forty , but I don't think it's w wrong if we can uh target the current customer group as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh the corporate identity should be clear in the design of the remote control . And we have to decide on the functions , and on the , let's see what was it , uh the target group . We have to make be clear what that is .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} group of users , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah users .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because it says below forty I mean . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so I think it's easy but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I guess that's that's the tar yeah uh or male and female {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh it's it's also for children or just uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's below forty so we can decide where to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh six {disfmarker} the marketing research started on s on the age of sixteen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sixteen to twenty five , twenty five to thirty five , thirty five to forty five , something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So below forty is okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But we need an {disfmarker} lower level which to s uh focus .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How do you mean ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So is it from sixteen to forty ? Is it from twenty to forty ? Is it from thirty ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh sixteen to forty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? 'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . We we have to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I I guess people of sixteen are are quite used to technology .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So they they adapt to it pretty soon I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And if we have a larger public we have uh yeah more options to to uh sell our product .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so what we might wanna do is uh yeah cust I have customised the screen functions , if you know what I mean .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The uh younger users are more acquainted with these kind of machines so they can use more advanced functions . But maybe elderly people don't understand it so well , so they need a simpler remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Design . Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And yeah that you can choose what the design displays , or wha whatever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's that's why uh I wanted to to make yeah two uh different uh yeah groups of functions . The the simple functions for for the the whole public , and the the advanced options for the younger people yeah who are more yeah experienced with uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} And maybe y",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Experienced yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But uh all incorporated in the screen or or just on the remote itself ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Na I w I should uh put uh the the yeah the extra advanced options on the onto the onscreen display .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "like like you have a visual of the of the brightness with with a kind of sliding bar and a bus and and stuff like that for sound and and vis and and visuals ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So is {disfmarker} you should have a menu for all the the functions you don't use regular and which are {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh you can make a {disfmarker} if you make a drawing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Aye yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Uh {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Shall I uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh black's okay . {vocalsound} And draw it very big .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} no , it doesn't have line control , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we get the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah well , this is basically uh it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The remote ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The remote , yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "alright the remote ? Um well usually the power button is on top I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Basic . Is on top . Which should be easy , easily reached with the thumb .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so it should fit right in into your hand .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . L left top or right uh top ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "T I s should said right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right . Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right top .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I most people are right-handed so {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah definitely .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "maybe left-handed special addition , but okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If you put it like like here . Or something . I dunno . Um then you could put a screen , like on a mobile phone , also on top I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but if you are using the the normal functions , the the basic functions , you normally press them on the u yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Do the also with the thumb . So it should be a little bit longer so that you can put your uh thumb , also reach the middle . Or you should screen at the bottom and then you can see it very clearly .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay so y yeah you have you have it in your hand , and the screen is below , and the buttons are in the middle .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You you need to be able to hold it so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay for example {vocalsound} if you put the screen here , it's more about the functions now than the than the layout .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay that's true . Layout . That's for the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Doesn't work too well . It's uh it's bent .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I can't help it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You broke it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Man . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay you get it . Uh for example if y if you put all the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You want the normal piece of paper ? And you have a pen ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And might be easier huh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe this . {gap} kind of works .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like if you have like uh ten buttons for for all the for all the channels ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "um and here one for for",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And the for flipping up and down .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah . And volume control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that that usually uh {disfmarker} like here , here , here , here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you have up and down for the for the channels , and left and right for the volume uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And left to right . And those can also be used for the menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah exactly . I thought {disfmarker} but this is really your department , that we need just the functional display and four cursors .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay but this is function so if you can use them for multiple things {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And you you have {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "most of the time you have one button in the middle . It says menu ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For the menu . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and then if you press it you {disfmarker} the screen gets activated and then you can use these buttons to scroll up and down and left and right to go into functon",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "mo most of the time this menu button is also like okay , to to confirm a a kind of action .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you scroll into it , okay . You select a function like v like uh bass . You just adjust it with these two buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then okay to confirm , and then uh on on each on each screen there's there should be an option to go back to a to a upper level .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then finally say okay , exit . Or or one button to exit it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh in one time I dunno , that's not really my department .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And do we need a a logo on our uh remote control , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's more your uh your department to to uh to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But it should be {disfmarker} if the screen is here then the logo should be like on on top ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "On the left uh top yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah . I mean it's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but that depends on where you put the screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But it's essential that there is a screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah I mean the position of the screen is also more essential than {disfmarker} I mean we we look where we have space left and then put the logo over there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And for the speech uh recognition part , if we want to incorporate that , we need a microphone .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But um {disfmarker} Yeah so it should be {disfmarker} I mean if you have it in your hand here , should be on top somewhere , maybe .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . This would be uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why did we wanna put the display in the bottom ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean i",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No that's not s sure so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's not sure",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh we need a display .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah may maybe because you're {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because yeah if you use the functions your hand will block the display .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay but {gap} only for the basic functi if you're going to use the advanced option , you're going to press the the menu button and then {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I mean a screen on top looks more lo logical to me .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Normal for logical t",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Also because people use m mobile phones and they also have the screen on top .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah they're used to it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay the {disfmarker} yeah . That's possible .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you you just have to reach a little bit for the power button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean if you grab it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "On once it's on it's on . You don't need the power button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But most most of the times if a if if a T_V_'s on standby people just press a channel to put it on .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Okay we put it on top .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we put this on top , and then make the corporate logo",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "like over here . R_R_ . And j and the microphone , I mean it can be very small . If you look at your mobile phones {gap} are some stripes , {vocalsound} little little holes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe on the top or even on the side .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah maybe on the side . I mean if the if the microphone is good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but then it's possible that you cover it with your hand so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay . So on the on the top is better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think that top is the best option .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But if you uh if you hold the ma the remote like this , if you put it on the top on the side {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno . Should be able to work .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Depends on the sensitivity of the microphone , but I think that's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Never mind . Can we leave this up to you ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it doesn't matter that much . So {disfmarker} but um the screen is on top ? Which functions did we have left ? I mean this is basically numbers , volume , uh channel up and down .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Volume . Up . Channel up and down , and the control of the advanced options .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Screen is over there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So maybe it , we should decide what advanced options we want to put in the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . If we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . That's uh that's a good one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so we we needed to integrate the sound and uh and image options right ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so sounds ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Like uh bass uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Sound ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so we need kind of an equaliser . If you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Equaliser . So if you have sound {disfmarker} But not too advanced . I mean most T_V_s use only treble and bass .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it it's just a remote control so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and they're {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah treble , middl middle , bass or something .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "They're not used often so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's uh pretty hard to write .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah as {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm . Okay but you have sound ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sounds .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "oh y you have digital uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "better write it down over there yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Of course . I'm just a {vocalsound} secretary .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you have sound .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Coffee ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh yeah sound and then within sound I guess treble and bass ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes please .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Treble bass .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} the mono stereo option ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Also .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And there there was something else also .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Pitch I believe , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then pitch .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Pitch . Yeah . But pitch , isn't that {disfmarker} yeah that's the the height of the tone .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The fr yeah the frequency of the tones , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and mono stereo .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "wh why would you use that ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah isn't that that depends on the on the signal of the of what program you're watching .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If people like talk like uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And also the tuning part ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Programming part .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah programming . So channel programming ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh so we have sound , yeah ? Channel programming .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And yeah in the functionality of the",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Television uh itself uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "no no of the remote uh do do we want uh the buttons to make sound when you press them ? As a confirmation or whatever you know ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it g it gets annoying .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean most mobile phones used that in the beginning but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We we could make an option for it , but uh you can disable s",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Under the a yeah advanced option menu you can put those things .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But uh the the television itself has also the the options {gap} brightness and uh screen colour etcetera . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Contrast yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but people don't want to sit on their knees on their knees in front of their television with {gap} only three buttons then it's very hard to",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . No . Uh , so contrast ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "y yeah contrast and brightness ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "bright ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah those are the most used I guess . If you look at your monitor .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh {disfmarker} And the others were in your presentation right ? So I can just copy those ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {vocalsound} yeah well I guess that these were the only ones , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} It's easy . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But so we have we have T_V_ options , which is all this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I will look it up .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the button options and the L_C_D_ options .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The sound , sound and image . And you have in that uh the indeed the remote control options .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Indeed .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we need two menus kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you have basically a button menu , which you can use directly , uh according to the old principle .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the L_C_D_ options are activated by some some software options , thats communicates with the infrared uh decoder yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah with the chip and then {gap} I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So you {disfmarker} You have an additional processor and and software part .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} yeah . Well {disfmarker} yeah we have power button , whether that's present .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Compared to o",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Channel volume selection present . Uh numbers present . Yeah a audio settings , mono , stereo , pitch , bass , treble . Screen settings , brightness and colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "L_ s Yeah . Colour . Yeah I I call it contrast .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah con contrast is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I make it c colour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay , colour and brightness .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um and what you say , channel settings or channel programming ? So you you have an option to to start scanning all the frequencies , and when it encounters one , well it shows on your T_V_ . And then you can um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and automatically um {disfmarker} Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh and then you can select uh a number in your remote on which you want to save it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so I've g channel program is autoseek ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , autoseek .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh name a channel , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well most T_V_s automatically display the name , which they get through the cable .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh they get automatic names , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So you only have to choose the position on your",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It only has to match the the channel frequency on your T_V_ , with with the with the position on your T_V_ and and so your remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah but can you also say I want f uh Veronica on the channel number uh five or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Help .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If you already programmed it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you want to move it . Yeah that should be possible too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . How do you call that ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah how do you call that ? Mm ? Wait you you should be able to to browse through a list or something , which w displays all the all the values , all the channels which are possible .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Channels ? Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean like one to f thirty of or ninety or whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ninety nine or something . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just browse through it and then um in some kind of way see if it if it if it is programmed .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S swap channels ? Can I call it that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Swap channels .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Swap's good option . Okay . Uh other functions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you {disfmarker} most of the time if you if you swap it {disfmarker} S uh let's say for example you have uh R_T_L_ five on on channel five . And Veronica on channel eight and you want to move Veronica to channel five , most of the times you override the previous uh the previous one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Okay . Well that's 's up to uh Mister User Interface Designer .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's it's pretty uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah I mean you have to look on on the menu",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} working design . Doch .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Also .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "on the T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker} you're {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} He only has to figure out how it has to look .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah but also , which buttons you have to press to get a certain result ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And how",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "to use {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the working design was to specify how ph the physical interation between the components was , as I believe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay . But {disfmarker} You did your homework . But um {disfmarker} yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Or or is it too hard to to ju to just do it all on your remote ? To programme the channels ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No I don't think so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No no . It should be able to do any remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I think the communication with the television is difficult . But that's not our part .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We don't have to design a protocol so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's true . That's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank god .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So we have a figure a figure out a way to to do that easily . I mean th the autoseek is is not a problem .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No that's the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean you uh you uh current channel and then then it just says , uh on which number do you want to save this , and you just press a number on your remote , and then say confirm , okay , and then it's it's saved . It's easier , {gap} it's it's it's harder to , if you have already programmed it , to to swap .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we have to think of something for that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} The User Interface Designer can design a menu for all these function I put them on the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah k kind of structure into layers .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "On the uh yeah can you i make a a map with with all the {disfmarker} yeah 'cause it's now {disfmarker} there are lots and lots of documents",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . Yeah . Yeah I can .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'll just try to reorganise uh things . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you design the basic function menu for the L_C_D_ screen ? Uh um {disfmarker} I think {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And and the layout of of the thing itself .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "th I think the yeah the layout of the screen",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The the layout of the remote control ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and I think you can concentrate more on the button placement and the placement of the uh screen itself on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Isn't that more the the u uh the user interface part ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . No I d I think that's more in {disfmarker} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh all the functional uh aspects of the remote I think are in my department .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe more on {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I have to know what it has to do , so if you wanna you know the changing the channels kind of s thing is , I have to integrate that in the design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So he's layout and you're function .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Form function okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think that's a that's a good separation .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But do I have to to uh to yeah to make the the menu layout also ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Are you going to do that ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah I guess so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? I I'm going to make {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think i that's your department yes ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah o okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because w he already knows what {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we have to kind of work together .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If if I make the the the yeah the menu like , I have to state which function has to be in the menu ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But we're not allowed . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and then you have to decide , it's , in a in a way that b is user-friendly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay . Y you you are going to make a list of what functions are uh are going to to be on the the screen , the menu screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I'm going to make a a nice menu uh with with {gap} pages and yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "With with some l with some layers in it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and also make clear which buttons to press to get certain result ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So some menus .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because that's always the difficulty .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Every device has its own {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well I guess this this button , the the the okay ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Menu okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "menu okay . Or you can incorporate two uh difference uh different buttons . Uh like uh for your mobile phone . Um so this is only for to get in the menu , or to exit it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then one to confirm , and one to go one step back .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Back . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's like the the save button on your your mobile phone , if you have a Nokia or like that . Or the or the no button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "To go one step back you {gap} it's only two extra buttons ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . W we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but if it if it's very clear that they are for the screen {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I think we have to to group , to make two groups . Um the {disfmarker} one group for the for the display , and one group for the basic functions , and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but they're incorporated {gap} ? Up and down is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay but we we have a m",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah because this this is used for both .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah but maybe that's that's not uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Smart ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah if you're if you're z zapping uh with your uh yeah remote control , you can press the the menu button , and then you are suddenly into the the yeah the display .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Into your screen . Okay . So you",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You wanna separate uh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "l should leave the menu button out of here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And {gap} and just put it under the screen , the screen {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Put it on top .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah j just just group group the {disfmarker} yeah we make these the advanced functions and these the basic functions .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we make a yeah a line between them .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But we should place the screen on top , right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "F oh yeah . Okay yeah we swap uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But that's uh J Jurgen's department .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So we make it a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You just you just find out and {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You just make the layout . You {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "do we do the extra two buttons or not ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think you should .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's easier . If you put too many functions in one button it gets confusing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay . That's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So we have a a menu button and a s",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And to , okay and back , also .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay and back button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , or confirm and back . Whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And of course the four arrows .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But those are still y doubly used . Both the L_C_D_ {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Should we save this picture , or or you know what it looks like ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I'm I'm not s clear about uh the the extra two buttons . We have a menu button and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That that just to to activate the screen . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's the the one with the {disfmarker} yeah okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Menu button access the menu in the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then with these buttons , woa , y you navigate .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can navigate .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you can also navigate the channels . And the volume .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay so that that's not uh {disfmarker} Yeah that {disfmarker} Those are",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Those are both both {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "multifunctional .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hey is it interesting for users if we put LED lights under the buttons ? So that if you uh press on the menu function that only the buttons that are used for the menu are ligh li light up .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . L l litten up yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh five minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's very good idea .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "N",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Light uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's a good idea because then it becomes clear which buttons are active now , which you can use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and then it's also easier to integrate several functions in one button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Anything else ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Those buttons are are lit up .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think not .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But just one thing . Should we use those two ? Them ? Or only this to to scroll ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I've {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then use the two functional buttons to confirm , to go into something ? Oh no we have to use this to adjust some some bars ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Volume .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah keep it optional 'cause maybe you can you know go left to right and up and down in a in one menu .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And maybe we should use this also as an okay button , still . And then just only a back button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well we have those buttons . We use all four .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The pr the problem with the okay button in the middle is , sorry",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay go ahead .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "sorry , uh is uh if you're pressing up and down , you can easily press the okay once you , when you're not already at your choice .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So maybe make one uh one okay button and and one navigation button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that was already decided .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And one back .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the with with the the channel and the volume uh {disfmarker} yeah m a multifunctional navigation button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay that's what we decided earlier on .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right okay . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You wanna close down huh ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah I wanna close down .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I have to , sorry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's not because I don't like you but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yh we have lunch break ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Already .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then we can work for thirty minutes , and I have to write very fast to make the minich min minutes . And then uh we'll see {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright . How m how long is the lunchbreak ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . Nobody told me . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We have to ask . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But do we have to write uh to write down uh the our stuff now ? Or first lunchbreak ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No I th believe there's first lunch break .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because I {disfmarker} I've everything in my head now {vocalsound} so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Or you can just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think you can put uh the laptop back in the room and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes sir . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Time pressure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} 'Kay . Yeah it's a lot of pressure .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Sorry for my uh not finished presentation uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's okay . Oh yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh no no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we'll kick your ass later . No . {vocalsound} Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Bring it on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know if it works but it should be saved .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Aye {disfmarker} Y you saved it ? Does it save automatically in the project folder ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . We'll see .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Should be here . Smart board .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just put back my laptop .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Don't know if you can use it but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you can open it with the picture preview or stuff like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh we have to make uh some maps with uh with the all the the data we uh gathered .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I try to organise it by these three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} . It's it's just my own map so I put everything into the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {gap} yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't really mind . I just put the minutes here and we'll see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But you got some extra information uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's in the functional design uh folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah that's just basically what I just showed .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But where do you did you get the newsflash ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah I got it by {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You're the only one uh {disfmarker} okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah . I'm gonna get kicked if I don't do it so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} internet .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Make me proud .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I'll try to .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So first we have a lunchbreak now ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I believe so . {gap} just ask . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . I dunno where she {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
}
] |
TS3006c | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"482"
]
],
"topic": "Personal presentations on the appearance design, the speak recognition system and the ideal materials of the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"483",
"807"
]
],
"topic": "The shape, the color and the front buttons of the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"808",
"1049"
]
],
"topic": "Detailed design of the remote control, including the button layout, the company features, and the touch-pad"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting began with the members' personal presentations on the conceptual remote control. The Marketing would like the remote control to be with an appealing appearance and light material to attract more young consumers. The User Interface proposed to add a speak recognition system onto the remote control so that it would be able to function according to the user's instruction. After the presentations, they spent some time on the button layout and the shape of the remote control. Though the discussion was mostly smooth, they hardly reached an agreement towards the materials. At the end of the meeting, the group talked about the company features on the product, including a slogan and a logo.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "According to the Marketing, the drawback of the existing remote controls was that they were not so good-looking, so their conceptual remote control would be with an appealing and bright color.The Industrial Designer laid his emphasis on the materials that he would not like the remote control to be made in a too formal way, like those the elders were using. As for the User Interface, he proposed to add a speak recognition system onto the remote control in order to make it able to function once it received the user's voice instruction.",
"query": "Summarize the personal presentations on the appearance design, the speak recognition system and the ideal materials of the remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"482"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Marketing proposed to use titanium as the material of the front side of the remote control for that it would look strong but not be so hard to handle. However, he went on to point out the problem that the color would be dark, which meant that it might not cater for the youth's tastes. Thus they might not use the titanium as the main material.",
"query": "What did the Marketing think of the materials when giving personal presentations on the appearance design, the speak recognition system and the ideal materials of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"101",
"113"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "In order to meet with the annual trend of fruity elements, the Industrial Designer suggested making the remote control in a banana shape. For one thing, it would be related to the annual fashion trend and for another, the yellow color would satisfy the youth. However, in case the banana shape would be out of fashion next year, it might not be a perfect solution.",
"query": "What did the Industrial Designer recommend to do when discussing personal presentations on the appearance design, the speak recognition system and the ideal materials of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"324",
"335"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As to cater to the fashion trend, the group decided to put the remote control in a fruity shape and a bright lovely color. Then in order to make their product both good-looking and comfortable to hold, they reached the agreement that the front side of the remote control would be made of plastic while the back would be made of titanium. The group also spent some time on the internal design of the product, for example, the chip would be made of silicon and electrical cable would be just the same as other counterparts.",
"query": "What did the group talk about the shape, the color and the front buttons of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"483",
"807"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "While discussing the button layout, the group found that some of the elements could not be removable on the remote control, so the Industrial Designer proposed to make those elements with titanium and other things with plastic. However, the Marketing did not agree with this because he thought the plastic would not make the remote control look strong or be satisfactory to be held in hand.",
"query": "Why did the Marketing disagree with the Industrial Designer when discussing the shape, the color and the front buttons of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"528",
"544"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The User Interface proposed to make most of the buttons in a round shape which altogether located in a triangle. In the middle of the triangle, there would be a square button and the four buttons next to it would be respectively the channel control and the volume control, just as all the other remote controls.",
"query": "What did the User Interface elaborate on the shape of the button?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"768",
"792"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , I made it . English from now on {vocalsound} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Drawing or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah just testing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm ? English .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just kidding .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So annoying .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Break is over .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ooh it works .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Whoo .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Spicy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Spicy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Where are are all the other presentations ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I just put it in the in the shared folder so it should be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The conceptual or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah I think so . Yeah , conceptual design . What or whatever does it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah . Because I see only my own presentation {vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No no no , can you go back one ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh 'cause it has to be PowerPoint pre yeah components design , that's it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This ? {gap} I'll just put it in there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , he's coming .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . {vocalsound} I did get a bit more done than the last time ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause I knew that I didn't have time so I just copy and paste everything into the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah . She {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I can't cut and paste it into the other folder but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can look at the final report , 'cause I have to record everything we are deciding and such , so I'm trying to write it down between everything else .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Move to meeting room .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sometimes I have these pop-ups or these sounds and there's nothing there ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and also with {disfmarker} I don't know how to use PowerPoint , so it takes me forever to get something done with it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah me too , {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I I've got the same problem as well . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Here we go again . Welcome . Uh we have again three presentations and then we have to decide on what concepts the mobile phone has to uh {disfmarker} f the remote control has to support .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thi",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So who wants go .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Who wants to start ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Me first again or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure . Doesn't matter .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . No . Yeah . No problem",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah . Alright . Did you open it already or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "no . Ah . Ah . Yes . So welcome to the marketing presentation once again . Um this time about trendwatching . {vocalsound} Uh well there has been inv investigation again , in the in the remote control market . Uh it shows a number of developments . Uh I will address them uh in a moment . Um fashion watch watchers uh have detected the trends for young public , because that's our public . Um well fruit and vegetables will be will be the most important theme for clothing , uh shoes and furniture . And the feel of the material is expected to be spongey . So um the developments I will address them {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "oh yeah well this is the fruit and vegetables looks of fresh bright colours . So to give you an idea . Um well the developments ? Uh development one . {vocalsound} Uh well most important aspect for remote control happens to be a fancy look-and-feel . Instead of the current uh functional look-and-feel . Um well fancy stands for an original look-and-feel of the case and the interface . And the second most important aspect is that a remote control should be technological uh innovative . Um well it stands for the use of technical features that do not exist in current remote controls . I think we pretty much covered that with our screen and um and speech recognition ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sound . Yeah yeah uh uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so I don't expect that to be a problem . And the third development um is that the remote control should be easy to use . Um {disfmarker} Well the first aspect uh was twice as important as the second aspect,w which was twice as important as the third aspect .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um that kind of gets you this ratios . So fancy look-and-feel uh is the most important uh point of attention .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh so the fruits and vegetables in combination with the spongey material . Um well technolog technological innovation , we've covered that pretty much I guess . Um and easy to use , I don't think that will be problem . So my point of attention is especially this part .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That this will be a crux . So that was the marketing uh presentation . I had only one document left .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And shall I go first ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . No . I I don't mi I don't mind .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah yeah sure . No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So kind of this {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do you want to go first ? Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So a k a small example .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Kind of this this look .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh nothing about the buttons but just sponge kind of thing , and and some fruit and colours",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I dunno . {vocalsound} Just made a quick design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Cool . {vocalsound} Yeah you're just the user interface hmm ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's better than than my uh drawing . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay but I have to design the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh components .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah layout .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh no .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You probably opened it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah true . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "F_ five .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "F_ five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright . So {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm dealing with the components design . Um let's see . I uh used some design examples we had uh from similar products . And I used uh possibilities from our manufacturing department about current components which will have to be implemented in the design . That's why I had to , wanted to go first . Well they gave me um an idea about what people want . We're f mainly focusing on this group , but I want to make the distinction clear . Uh I could not drag the pictures into the the slides so s so I don't have examples of how it looks like . But it comes down to what you uh what you think we should do with the spongey and the fruity looking uh type . If you , the young dynamic people want soft primary colours uh , which looks like fruits you know , you can {disfmarker} and shapes that are curved and not uh solid straight lines anymore . So this basically um yeah goes on to what you were mentioning earlier . There is a lot of um {vocalsound} factors involved in choosing the components .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There's a lot of options that we have to discuss . Uh for example the energy source . we have four types . The basic battery . Uh we have a hand dynamo , which we yeah we Dutch refer to it as the kneipgatt .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh the kinetic provision of energy which means if you move the thing , if you shake it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which will be fun for toddlers right , if they wanna use the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh of course solar cells . But I dunno how we would use that into the design of the actual product .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Wi an indoors .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So uh my {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Calculator's can do it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah also also in you know countries where there's n isn't much light like in Scandinavia , they wouldn't be y able to use it half of the year you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's not cool either . So um {vocalsound} for the uh a case , there's uh the traditional uncurved flat hard case . Single curved , which means that it has uh curves in one dimension . Or the double curved . Um {vocalsound} I wasn't able to finish my uh personal preferences sheet , but well you know that we will have to go for the double curved 'cause it's daring and different from what we have now . Uh the case materials .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well we have all kinds of hard uh materials like the the hard plastic , the wood and the titanium . I would definitely go for rubber 'cause it fits most in what people wanna see nowadays .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um poo , this is a lot of text . I wasn't able to organise this yet . We have yeah several uh interface designs . Uh we can use a scroll buttons for the menus , but we already kind of decided to go for the f for the pushbuttons , for the the arrow buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Pushbuttons . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that's not really interesting .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Electronics ? Yeah , {vocalsound} maybe we wanna decide on what electronics to use {gap} the advanced chip I think is easiest to implement uh for the production , 'cause they they can print it better . Um {disfmarker} Yeah . I think this is about it . Yeah I was working on some per personal preferences . I first uh chose for the battery , 'cause yeah I'm traditional and that's the most obvious , easiest choice to go to . But I really think that we should maybe uh think about the kinetic energy ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "where you have to move the thing to be able to use it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "As an optional uh feature .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or combine uh both with a with one uh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh I think you can only fit one uh source of energy on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah maybe we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I guess we can only choose one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I can imagine that the kinetic uh type energy source would be more expensive to make . But it is more longlasting , that the people don't have to ever buy batteries again .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And it's more fun .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I didn't receive any info uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it's also more fun yeah . I always chuck my uh remote control around , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , just playing with it",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker} especially when the material's rubber . It can be done , I mean , you can't harm it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S yeah it's safe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And throw it {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah y exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so it's a perfect combination I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You don't have to be scared about bouncing it off the g floor and breaking it or whatever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that's the end of it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay next .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh go ahead .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So double curved is like this , this , this , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No it means curved in two dimensions . So uh w single curved ? Uh let's say would be a b square box , but then with curves on one dimension .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And double curved would means that it would have curves curves in every direction . Like three D_ . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Also in in height ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Can we uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . One one uh very important thing I was uh yeah thinking about is the speech uh option . We were going to use that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah um yeah that's one thing uh which I'm not sure uh of how to implement it uh into the remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well the visual representation is not there with speech",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Design ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No okay but it has to be combined with with the menu uh for functions and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but you can {disfmarker} Yeah . Just {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think you can just uh match the speech commands with the functions that are already present .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I don't think you have to design anything else for that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah with the programme .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But do uh j do we uh do the speech just for the basic options , for the simple buttons ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Both .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "For for everything ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "also for the advanced options ? Okay . Uh we have this {gap} very uh basic uh trendy design . Everybody says it so that's what's uh {disfmarker} yeah um {disfmarker} Yeah in the in the last uh meeting we uh we were yeah putting the the simple and the advanced options separated . That's yeah obvious . Um yeah . Pressing the the menu option uh will disable uh all other options on your uh remote control . And only the the L_C_D_ panel will uh light up and then you can only uh change the yeah the options .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And and the and the buttons that you need to control it , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um yeah design has to be very attractive but that's your your op your {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound} you have to uh delete this but this is the the the simple uh layout .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh display on the upper side with the the menu button and maybe a some sort of cancel button or save button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That would be the back .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm {disfmarker} The back .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Back and okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Back and okay yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Back and okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You did read the minutes I wrote ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You did read the minutes I wrote ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What ? A little bit I think but not not everything w",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay 'cause I pretty much summed up all the buttons there were . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Oh {vocalsound} I uh didn't read that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I hate doing work for nothing . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But this is the the basic uh design uh for the for the m yeah for the buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} I wanted to to categorise everything . Uh with a speech display uh yeah , sound , everything you you noted in your uh minutes . Um every pushbutton has uh has its own uh LED light .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you can uh yeah change uh m make it more trendy for for younger people . And uh if there are older people they wanted more uh yeah more uh luxurous {disfmarker} so that's an a also an option . Um that was it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That was it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh {disfmarker} {gap} again . Ugh . {vocalsound} Okay so what we have to decide is what kind of components do we use ? Uh energy source , chip type , case type . And user interface . But I didn't see a clear distinction between these so I think what we have is okay . So we only , we already decided that kinetic would be the choice for energy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh the case would be doubly curved . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And rubber . Rubber material .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Rubber material .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Rubber material . And that's the only thing we have left .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we need the the chip on print to be able to support the the screen and uh and f audio function .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay . No it's easy . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's uh {disfmarker} is that is that the advanced chip ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Advanced chip . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise you would have a simple chip , just for pressing buttons . But we need more .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Wow . Yeah . Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm just thinking , this is not my department , but I I'm not sure what this is gonna cost ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Kinetic . Double curved .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Too {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "to be able to m",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh I didn't get any info on this . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So 'cause we need to sell it for twenty five Euro a piece .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's gonna be difficult huh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The cost of making it should be twelve and a half ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I have total here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I didn't get any information about that so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . We're going to produce it in uh China so it's no problem .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Child labour man , we love it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , so it's cheap .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Who doesn't . Uh let's see . Is there a new thing ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um well the interface type supplements .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the interface , maybe can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's it's quite difficult because we we haven't got all the options uh {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ooh . No . Uh do you have a picture of doubly curved case ? And could you put that in the group folder ? Of the project folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um let me see . Wait a sec .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If you go to your homepage or something , you should",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I'm going there now .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "get your own information .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Inspiration .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I got my fresh and fyoo fruity uh picture uh also uh over there , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ah you didn't draw it yourself .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Too less time .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} yeah maybe it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , also the menu .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that that w",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is the the menu I was uh looking uh at .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah I was thinking of that also , with with a with a uh arrow .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it's easier {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Arrow .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Arrow yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that indicates that there's an menu under that menu .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah perfect .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . 'S the target group .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it's easier if you guys come over here .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "S yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "S see this is the the the standard traditional type , where the form uh yeah serves the function , you know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's like really basic . But this m is more appealing to old people and we don't want that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This is what we're looking for . And th that means curved in both dire dire uh dimensions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay . I see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not only like this but it has to be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah also like this . So you can hold it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "exactly . It has to be kind of instead of the PlayStation , the module . It has to be like the the Game Cube , you know ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "where your thumbs would be laying in the instrument and it has to be nice to hold . And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But it has also to {disfmarker} it it has also to be uh luxurous uh for for yeah rich people .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Th this looks a little bit like like for only for children . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It ha",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The children's story . Yeah I've got it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but that's that's the the problem uh yeah the dilemma actually ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Distinction . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause we wanna appeal to the to the young public with fancy with flashy colours , and with a lot of shape . And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and the and the rubber , it it will look cheap always ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The colour {disfmarker} Yeah . Okay but the the colours , you you can make it uh make the colours with {gap} LEDs uh beneath the the buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you know , with the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you press a button and you can disable the the colour LEDs for for people that don't like it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "There is mobile phones , in which you can change the colour also of the lights .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we should consider this function .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To customise it and so {disfmarker} I mean kids can make it look more flashy with different kinds of colours",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and people who want something , you know , different , or more uh design , they can go for one colour",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Different . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "like uh for example this uh photo th camera .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Camera .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Cool . S underwater uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah submarine . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Personally I think it's really ugly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just give me the thing that it's inside there {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but this this the {gap} is for the {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Very cheap uh cheap look .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "maybe I'm too old for this stuff .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So those I think are all my {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah yeah bright colours .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Also a kind of rubber uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And this is , this is with the curved that I mean .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's singly curved .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That should be nice .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well we could make a compromise between that . But I don't know if it's worth the effort .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A compromise between what ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh instead of doubly curved we take a single curved . So to appeal a little more to the all the public .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So s",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This , this would be uh single curved uh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah there's only in in this dimension .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Like this . So curvy or not {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Also .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Exactly . Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so we keep it singly c single curved then ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that would be an option . I don't know what you think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I mean our aim is to make something different right ? To make something new .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I would go for the double curved .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah I'd agree .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I I'm I'm thinking uh you know uh a drawing palette , where you have the shape for your thumb .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it kind of holds nicely , something like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but if you if you make it more curved we we can make more and more options for buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well this is really your decision but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you have uh it have it in your hand , you you you are not only um yeah you don't need one dimension but you can use other dimensions for pressing the the buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . As well . You can make a trigger button or something like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Something to shoot at your television {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah or that that is the confirmation button or something ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that you scroll with your thumb , with the arrows , and then confirm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That would be a nice way to use it but {disfmarker} I mean , yeah , I'm thinking big already , and we need something that well that {gap} that you can able to use in one hand I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Different . Stands out . Or {disfmarker} Oh yeah a one hand uh solution .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So from top view it looks kinda like this . But from the side you you can have it also in a kind of shape .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} can turn it maybe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe because the the screen is on top you can have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "To switch from buttons to interface hmm . If you turn it a little . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe you can c have this kind of shape . A little upwards . So that the screen is more",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . Least you can easily see it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "towards yourself , so you can easily see your screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How about {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well well you have it in your hand so it's a kind of an angle from your eyes to the screen . So then you have double double curved in some way . So this this is so the screen is positioned over here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Something like that . And the buttons are more , well it's very thick now but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I understand what you mean .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's uh that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How about we do a uh a pop-up screen , like the laptop .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If you can uh flip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that the only the simple functions will be visible at first .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? That that you can press it and then it comes up ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then if you want {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh so you have a the the side view .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Something like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But then the side view can be straight . If you have a pop-up screen . But I dunno if that's too expensive .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So and you want to be able to",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean maybe it's too much {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "make this",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No uh like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I would draw it like this . Let's say this is the side view . That you have a a screen that will come up here , and can go down that way . If you know what I mean .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that it would come up like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay so the buttons are on top here , and you flip it over that way .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah or {vocalsound} preferably even keep the simple buttons here , and then under the screen even you could put more more advanced buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Oh yeah . Yeah yeah yeah yeah . Right . Yeah that's good idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh the advanced buttons . Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker} the the more advanced options were uh for the for the menu .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But you you want {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "F for the L_C_D_ menu right ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "okay . You just want to hide them all ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So w w",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No not all because you need most of them , the arrow buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But you can hide the okay and the back uh button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the menu button also because when you flip it open {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and you can maybe even drop the menu button because maybe if you flip it open it will auto activate amauto uh uh automatically .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Activate and th the {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} okay b but you have t you need some button to flip this open .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Why ? You could just make it mechanical .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "True . True . But you can make a , yeah , you can make a trigger here . You know a simple uh {disfmarker} with a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah and it says menu and it flips open and then you have the buttons to control it , in combination with your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker} but it's it's not",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's not very uh very strong uh {disfmarker} yeah if you drop it one time {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "True . It uh c it can go open .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah the the idea of it was , is that because you close it , you cover the L_C_D_ screen and it won't be vulnerable to scratches or whatever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If you cover it with rubber . Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "An adv an adv and it will be covered in some kind of uh thin rubber layer or something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So it can bounce .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Exactly . Exactly . We just have to make sure that the closing mechanism won't break .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh {disfmarker} It's very no it's very strong .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Th it's very solid yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay so that that may work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That actually will offer some extra protection for the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay but then we still have the the the thing of the the the shape . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What kind of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I was thinking , if if you have your hand , it this is your th",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Harder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the lower part doesn't work I guess , so maybe you should try it over there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . If this is your thumb , and this is your hand like that . With your uh wrist .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That you , that it would be kind of shape like this , you know . So it's easier to hold in your hand , to y f",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But when you are left-handed , that's that's a problem .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah . Yeah of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe can design two versions .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah then w then you would have to to make it like this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But that's that's very expensive uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like like you drew here .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And maybe th then make this thicker also than the centre .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Give it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And ergonomical shape . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I would give it a female shape",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but uh yeah . Anyway .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The female shape yeah . With two uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Obviously . {vocalsound} Make it more appealing to guys .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We we could make some some rubber uh some rubber uh yeah mouse , with which you can change uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . Some uh k esk uh {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and so if you {disfmarker} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but but that's optional for later I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean , we have to make {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but we have hardware inside , which is {disfmarker} so it has to have some sort of basic shape .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Some {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we we better so choose one {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And also the screen , you cannot mould it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No no no no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You know kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah so okay we should better choose one sh one shape .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But that's the kind of the idea ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And then you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so it lays good in the hand , and then on on the side with with your thumb ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can place the screen here , which can come {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you you can you can use ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah , you can use the button option {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So the keywords are primary co colours , spongey ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker} but then I w I would {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Spongey .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I would do the arrows here , kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Spongey can be reached by means of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Those buttons ? And the simple buttons here ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And and the and the control thngs in the middle ? The the the arrows ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I Uh y eah that's what I mean .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No the arrow's over here .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The arrows over here ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and here the s simple uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and then numbers .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Buttons . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think that uh it's a nice design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh pretty nice design . Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's cool . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it looks uh pretty fancy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} or do we wanna make its shape look like a banana or something ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I dunno .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh bananas {gap} wierd shape and other fruits also ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so it's better to have um some sort of basic print and then a fruit print in some primary uh colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we could make {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know what what colours should the basic print be like ? Like some soft {vocalsound} green or something ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Orange or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker} and then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or blue ? Dark blue or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah yeah , dark blue",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We should use {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then and then very bright , uh a yellow banana , {vocalsound} an orange , uh a green apple , stuff like that ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "with very uh bright tones I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah w we need very primary colours , like bright red , bright yellow .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So you have something like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but the primary colours w we can uh create with the with the LEDs on the on the remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah okay yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If you we uh {disfmarker} yeah . If you make it uh just a yeah bl give it a blue colour , then it's just a neutral colour ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "also for the for the more uh yeah for the {gap} people .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Huh cool .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} That doesn't really work . To draw , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No it's {disfmarker} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . What's this ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's text .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "N no you have to exit . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You could also make line with uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Two hours further .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} thickness . Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that's blue .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Wh why not go for the twenty ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's what I call painting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Y {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's that's a dark blue basic colour I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and then on top of that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's pretty nice . And then uh {disfmarker} Oh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Some yellow .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah with some some yellow banana {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Banana colour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And how about some uh some flashing standby lights ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Like {disfmarker} {vocalsound} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like you have on the Samsung , well I don't like to call brands phones ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} the you know that {disfmarker} {vocalsound} 'cause I remember from one of our first meetings that uh people lose their uh remote controls often .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it {disfmarker} not not only in in the colours {vocalsound} of the LEDs , that we want something to keep it visible at all times , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How do you mean ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah if you if flashing colour so you can't lose it , basically .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Some some {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well I think it's a bit too much but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah an orange . Well alright well this is more like purple I guess ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} it's should be more real dark blue , so the contrast with the with the fruit objects is uh pretty high .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So uh yeah . That would be a nice uh nice device I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And which which colour should uh should I give the the display ? Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Who ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean , the the colour of the background of the display ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah well I don't guess it s has to be a sixty uh sixty six {vocalsound} five thousand uh colour , so yeah too expensive .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then you can use yellow or semething . Why not ? {vocalsound} Aye .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So just just a {vocalsound} a blue blue backlight or something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Green is too old-fashioned . But blue , blue's okay . J",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "As long as you loo {vocalsound} use uh high contrast between the the background and the foreground colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "maybe a maybe a white a white backlight ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that people with uh with",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "White backlight , and dark .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Dark uh letters , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Whatever which is visible .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I know you sh you should test it under uh under a light conditions . I mean it's hard to tell uh I dunno .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And also for people who are a bit colourblind .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Colourblind yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No so that's mostly red and green I believe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which which uh colour should the buttons be ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's adjustable .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Woah . All all buttons ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why adjustable ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Or not .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's how we are going to make it uh more trendy . Or is it uh too expensive ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {vocalsound} maybe I mean they have to they have to have some colour right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's difficult .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And if the background is very dark blue {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Blue . Maybe green .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But don't we wanna make the background the the bright colo colours ? So th the total of the thing is very bright ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like the pictures I showed you guys . Those things were all like like bright red , bright red , flashy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm flashy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So more like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm bzz .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Doesn't work very well . Uh . More like this colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah something like that , something that stands out more .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then then yellow and orange and red objects on it or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But then then again , which colour should the buttons be ? The the press buttons . Should they be white or black or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Red maybe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it it looks quite cheap , that colour I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Black .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's it's not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The green ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Why ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I dunno .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but it's pretty fresh , on the other side .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's actually a pretty trendy colour at the moment .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's it's trendy okay . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "My couch is in that colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ooh . {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well it works pretty well .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then time was up .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh not yet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do you get a pop-up if we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah within five minutes yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That you have five minutes left or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Y left yeah left and then uh I have to kick you out .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So something like this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That should be pretty nice colour . But maybe the buttons , all buttons in red is maybe a bad contrast for colourblind people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No that's actu",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because the {gap} of the green .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But the but the buttons have their own LEDs or not ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They have LEDs but they have a colour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Red and green are actually the b the easiest to discriminate . Even for colourblind .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "They will see one of each as grey . But if you use uh green on blue , those kind of colours will look the same .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So red buttons are okay ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can make them red .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . That that's a default uh setting . The the red buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But I think you need to keep in mind that the LEDs are just extra light . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How do you mean ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh they they don't determine the colour that much , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah I I was think about a red uh red LEDs and blue LEDs and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause you have to print on them {disfmarker} you have a background",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No that's that's too busy I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Each number is transparent .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh partly but you have to print on the number . Or the the sign .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you can't {gap} change the colour so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You better bet better better keep the LED and the button itself in the same colour I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So just an extra",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bit of light .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "bit of light and attention .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bit of feedback .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "what we should do I think is is make kind of a see-through plastic button , with uh one coloured LED behind it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that the whole button will shine",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "as the colour the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And if you think about easy to use buttons , we have to , well we have to make it the shape so that it's easy to hold f for both hands ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but also that you can reach the buttons with your thumb , if you hold the machine .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay with {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Don't mean to discourage you but {disfmarker} uh basically you two are going to work on the smartboard . Next thirty minutes to design something so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah , right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And the {disfmarker} You will do the evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Of the product ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which we don't have yet .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah uh about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So wh how should I do that ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I don't know . {vocalsound} You probably get a mail .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay . Or you you or you send it to me . Or just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Once they are finished . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because you are going to design it on this board right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but maybe you can do the evaluation {disfmarker} you don't have to evaluate yet but you can make a procedure which to follow . I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I I probably get instruction on that , how to do that ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so I make another presentation I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I kn I know what's gonna happen in in yeah so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "About . Yeah . You have the basic idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I've a basic idea .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you two uh are going to do this . Look-and-feel and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we're gonna work here ? On this sketchboard ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Good luck .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright . Thanks .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Alright so that's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So I {gap} uh make new page and uh be creative .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But we have to do it at this moment , after th this meeting ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you have uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then we have to uh see something which we can uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "show to the management .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah so this is basically the what what we are thinking about ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I would yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Shall we uh make a new uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah l let's just uh delete all these uh {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Next .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I just {vocalsound} make a new one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , next {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh and save this uh board .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just save it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh ? Yeah I'll just I'll just keep it there .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay but just press save and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It'll be fine .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "On the left . S so , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh sorry .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You can also include clip-art . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So if you'll rather draw in paint or something {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Current colour ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Shall we make some outline sketches of the basic shape first ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And then after that we can make the user uh inter interface .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because {vocalsound} I I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} then look .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah 'cause I have to uh focus on the on the basic look-and-feel design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So how it's gonna look . And you have to think uh how we're gonna put the screen in it and those kind of things .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh pretty accurate .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So if I'm drawing and you think okay I'm not gonna be able to put a screen in there , you have to correct .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh we skip this I guess . Sound {gap} button press .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh do you mind if I draw in black then ? For normal sketches .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can also include it . It's not much work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh no it's it's okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Light only button user ca user interaction .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} so we kind of want the girlish",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's included .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "figure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So the pl the plastic plastic buttons also help uh because of um they are only lit during interaction . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm not so good at drawing . Excuse me ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well it's a good thing that the buttons aren't um , well that they are plastic , because then you can light up the light on {gap} when when they are usable .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No uh uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe you should draw it very large {vocalsound} like this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but this part isn't uh functioning properly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Sensitive .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How do we uh uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Erase ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or insert text ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I dunno . Maybe just start typing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a bit uh large . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh that's a bit big . Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You also do the other sides . Not only on the front si uh the top side but also the the side view .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Ex exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "L let's make first the the the all the views . The the front view , side view and the back view .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh I thought for the side view , that the w the basic section would be rather uh a bit thicker than the middle , where you're holding it with your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Jesus . What do I write down ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Why can't I work here ? This is much easier . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Much easier , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause your fingers have to fit underneath and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The middle has to be very small so you can have it in your hand .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't see a sign that the meeting is over yet but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Exactly but the uh but the upper side has to be a bit more like that I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No so I just work here a few minutes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the display ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh don't you think ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we yeah we can put a display .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So the display we will put in here , the basic uh functions in here , where it's most reachable .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The the arrow functions . Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The th Exactly . Oh . This is hard .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What do {disfmarker} {gap} don't have to draw it exactly do we ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No it's it's uh it's okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Wait . Let me try it one more time . Maybe I've uh {disfmarker} it's easier if I draw it in once . Okay , of course it will become way more ugly . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You can make it m larger . Maybe it's easier to to draw uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . This'll take forever . It's fun to work with this pen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um so , larger .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's that's the basic idea . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Wrong one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah . So side .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Five minutes left before the meeting ends .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . Um other views ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah only if you are going to put buttons on the side of the unit .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's the question .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Let's fill i fill in the buttons later .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But we we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So this is gonna be from the",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I is it {disfmarker} if if this is from the side {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh from {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "From the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "woah . Steady .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah yeah . Sorry .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because there the screen goes up like that right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So then it's like this ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker} that's not convenient because then you have the screen like this and look like the {disfmarker} it's better to have it somewhat like this . Or does it flip all the way ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I'm I'm {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The the idea is that it has to flip up to here .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "May maybe it's it's easier to to integrate the the the L_C_D_ screen just into this this bubble . Because it do doesn't have to flip then .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because we have en enough space for for making a an L_C_D .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because here {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's better to to have this like this I guess , and then flip it like this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But why why do we need uh the flipping uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} you can adjust the angle to which it flips . So it can also from this angle , it can flip all the way up to there .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can flip it up to there if you want .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So w yeah . But we still keep the flipping mechanism .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we keep the flip ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Keep the flip live .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah because I think it will feel weird if you would make this smaller and this bigger or something that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I dunno .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh the the shape is okay but {disfmarker} yeah ? I don't see the the yeah why why we should use the the flipping uh mechanism .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I thought it would be cool . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because we {disfmarker} Okay yeah . It's it's for for for more trendy uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but maybe {disfmarker} Yeah but maybe we we should then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because we have enough space . H here we got uh the basic functions , the the arrow uh yeah button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah there the middle {disfmarker} Sh sh shouldn't we integrate it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and then h we sh mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And then like i oh th {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "doh . Come on . So this is the shape . Oh . It hasn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . It doesn't aim so well .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay but the screen is a bit lower because if it falls on the other side , it doesn't fall on the screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , then it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So there's a layer of rubber on the side .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah . Definitely .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So no flipping but just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No flipping or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No flipping ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} you wanted the flipping so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I guess but uh I mean most votes count right ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But if you if you {disfmarker} If you drop it it it just breaks . And it has to be very strong because of the {gap} . Yeah kind of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's shaking .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Throwing and the kinetics . Oh . We better make we better make it like this . Eventually .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah true true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah just light on top .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And it's also for the for the children , it's yeah for people not sixteen years .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah if you if you're going for the kinetics {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Safer . Mm . Yeah okay that {gap} the target group .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But there are more {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh they are responsible enough to have a mobile phone , so also to to deal with their uh remote uh control . Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay . That's true . Okay . Yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well . I just uh ended the meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I'm just thinking totally different designs also .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You two go design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay wi",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Remember that the weird pocketphone thingy which looked like kind of a Gameboy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . By the way . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we should try something like that . But yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I uh thought up a name for our product . Yeah . It's called uh the Real Remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} With a copyright sign after Real . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ooh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The Real Remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I like it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So maybe you can include that somewhere .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . This can go .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Good . Yeah . We should work in our own room right ? Or not ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah we have to f uh include that in our design as well .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't see any power cables here so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Let's see .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What the hell's that ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think uh it's the sensors .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "See you two in half an hour uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Good luck . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Okay that's the side . Ah it's it's okay . But do we want uh options on the on the side with the with the buttons ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think we do .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or just leave it ? Uh could make an uh a volume button uh scroll , volume button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah or j or also scrolling for the m yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For menu . Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? I dunno . We w kind of wanted to stick with the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . No , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I'm just thinking , {vocalsound} if we i we wanna make something different",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "right ? So the with the scroll is is more futuristic than the standard arrow buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah you are going to design it so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3006d | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"427"
]
],
"topic": "Attempts to redesign the conceptual remote control because of the limited budget"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"428",
"880"
]
],
"topic": "The material and function issue and a questionnaire"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"881",
"1253"
]
],
"topic": "The external design of the conceptual remote control, regarding the color and the logo"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1254",
"1400"
]
],
"topic": "A review of the past meetings and their cooperation, and also plans about their group presentation"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting began with the harsh budget problem that the group had to cut down something of the current conceptual remote control, otherwise they would be unable to handle the cost. They talked about reducing the buttons, integrating functions, or using cheaper materials. After the discussion, the Marketing offered a questionnaire for the group to check if they were on the right track. Through the questionnaire, they found that it would be better if they paid more attention to the external design so the Industrial Design embellished the current design on the color and logo. As the last thing left to the meeting, the group reviewed their cooperation and got a general plan of their coming group presentation.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "According to the Project Manager, the group had gone far beyond the budget, so they had to cut down something on the current conceptual remote design. The first idea they came up with was to reduce the number of the buttons. The Industrial Design proposed to use an integrating button to replace the scattered ones, but inevitably, this also had some defects. The User Interface focused on the material and he put forward to choose a cheaper material like wood or plastics. Paying attention to the energy consumption, the Marketing suggested using a hand dynamo to save the cost of batteries.",
"query": "Summarize the group's attempts to redesign the conceptual remote control because of the limited budget.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"427"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When discussing how to control their budget, the Industrial Design put forward to use an integrating joystick or a scroll-wheel push-button like the mouse to reduce the number of the buttons on the remote control. It did sound great for that it allowed users to function the remote control by manipulating only one button as well as saved the cost for the group. However, according to the User Interface, actually it could cost even five times to design and produce an integrating button than just produce several scattered buttons, so this might not be a feasible suggestion.",
"query": "Why did the User Interface disagree with the Industrial Design when discussing their attempts to redesign the conceptual remote control because of the limited budget?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"80",
"121"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The User Interface suggested to use plastics as the material in order to reduce the cost. However, the Project Manager would like to use wood for fear that the color would not be bright enough. Fortunately, according to the User Interface, there were actually hard plastics with attractive color, that was also why he insisted on the plastics as the material.",
"query": "What did the User Interface suggest to do when discussing their attempts to redesign the conceptual remote control because of the limited budget?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"230",
"258"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As to have a clear idea about what they had already got, the Project Manager proposed to evaluate finished work first. Then through the review, they found the problem that the joystick might not function as well as they thought before. In addition, in order to keep it innovative, the group decided to add some unique things like fruit logos or make it in a three-D shape. According to the User Interface, they should put the electronics into fashions so the material also needed some discussion. Plastics and rubber were both fine to them for that they were not easy to be destroyed and favored by most youths. After all the discussions, the Marketing offered a questionnaire for them to check whether they made the right decisions.",
"query": "What did the group talk about the material and function issue and a questionnaire?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"428",
"880"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When the group was talking about the material and function issue, the Marketing laid stress on the innovation for that they already had to drop several advanced techniques to meet the budget limitation and it was necessary for them to find something unique.He pointed out that they could take the advantage of the fruit and vegetable logos on the remote control, as well as the primary colors of the button.",
"query": "What did the Marketing think of the external design of the remote control when discussing the material and function issue of it?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"618",
"649"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When discussing whether they were on the right track after so many changes in their design, the Marketing offered a questionnaire for the group to check if they did the right thing. The questionnaire included both positive issues and negative ones, and by ticking all the questions on it, the group received a mark to evaluate their work as well as compare themselves to their counterparts. To the Project Manager's satisfaction, the score eventually showed that they made the right decision and exceeded some others.",
"query": "What did the Project Manager think of the questionnaire when discussing it to ascertain whether they were on the right track?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"770",
"880"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay . Uh first of all I'll start with the costs ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because that's going to influence our design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you {disfmarker} Don't know if you al already had a look or not ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No n I I already did it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Did you do your questionnaire already ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's not much . It's just one question .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because we have a problem .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you look closely , you can see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It wants {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um I already took the liberty to make some suggestions . {gap} . {gap} . {vocalsound} At the moment we have fifteen buttons , one L_C_D_ screen , one advanced chip-on-print . We use a uh sensor , that's for the speech . Uh we use kinetic energy . And we wanted uh the buttons in a special colour . Okay . What's the first thing we should drop ? The special colour of the buttons ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No that's that's for the trendy uh feel and look . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but everything is .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Should we switch to a hand dynamo ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh that's the still the same idea as the kinetic energy because you have to use it and do things .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , b but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but young people like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Batteries ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So just do normal battery .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Batteries .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think the battery option .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Just a normal battery then , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It has to be twelve and a half .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or not ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh my goodness .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You're going to redesign something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we're at twenty five .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} Do we keep the shape doubly curved or g do we go for single curved ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I guess i we'll have to go for single curve then . I mean we have to drop on everything .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we can keep it single curved with uh top view still curved , but from the side it's it's flat ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and the screen screen is just {disfmarker} Well you just have to hold it like this then . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How about {disfmarker} Sorry .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh another option I saw was to drop the buttons one through nine , so you can't directly access a channel , but instead use only the up and down arrows . That would skip nine buttons and four and a half Euros .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's what I was thinking .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A a",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Let's do it then . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh then we have left {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we don't have any basic options any more .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} we {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah . We do .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh 'cause then they don't have to n They don't need special colour as well .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "F_ eight .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "They don't need special colours . Fine . That's more like it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You were saying something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That was exactly my point . Like let's drop all the buttons , and just make one",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} I mean we're gonna use the L_C_D_ screen anyway . So we'll just have to use it for everything .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then you can make an overview of channels in the screen , and select a channel , click {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , some more menu options . Yeah . Okay so maybe we can drop few more buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But um {disfmarker} Now let's look .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we c could {disfmarker} We only need the the the the the menu arrow arrow button uh thing . Everything you can do with with the menu . So {disfmarker} With the display .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we need one integrated button for everything then .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The joystick .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Kind of . I was {disfmarker} Because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , scroll-wheel , push-button uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . If you if you go to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Integrated scroll-wheel push-button , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you go to our uh view , like you {disfmarker} if you are in the sound system there , uh and you wanna adjust the treble for instance ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "this is just uh an example ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "y y you wanna see a bar on which you can adjust it from zero to ten for example .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But you want a sound preview of how it's gonna sound ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "right ? So you wanna click on it , activate it , whe and when you move it , hear the difference of the treble coming out or going into the sound .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you'll you'll need a a kind of a joystick uh button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah or or the integrated scroll-wheel push-button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that's kind of on your mouse and then you can click it , adjust it , click again and then you're out of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But you still {disfmarker} But you then still need to have {disfmarker} Well you can use the scroll-wheel as well for um maybe for the channels . But you still um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's r Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You still have to have some some button in the menu to go back .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you do one inte You can do one integrated scroll-wheel push-button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then just drop all the other buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well not all .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But but th the cost of one integrated button is far more than a few extra push-buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not s not sound I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's uh {disfmarker} One integrated button is five times the cost of a normal button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we have to to make it s uh more uh {disfmarker} It has to be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You could also drop j three more of these , without losing much functionality . You just drop the Okay and the Back .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Wh wh what what what is the what is the uh sample sensor sample speaker ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , that's for the speech .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Could drop the speech recognition . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S s Drop speech recognition ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's possible . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We we d",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's it's expensive , but uh we never considered the possibilities of uh speech recognition . 'Cause it can take the function of a lot of uh uh buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's not very easy to use .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , it can be disturbed by by noise and",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but lets just say that the speech recognition works .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "stuff like that . Let let let me see what's more what's more popular . I guess the the screen was more popular than um than the speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I have to look on that . Let me see . {vocalsound} Uh well no I was wrong .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There are more people who like speech recognition than an L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Okay . Because if you d lose the L_C_D_ screen , we {vocalsound} need a lot of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But if it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But it it {disfmarker} it's a it's a both a hypers",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We lose our whole concept .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh so {disfmarker} No we just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We need a lot of extra buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We keep the L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well we Yeah we keep the screen . I mean it's it's about the same . Eight one to ninety one percent , uh sixty six to seventy six .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We uh we we haven't really integrated this {disfmarker} the speech into the system ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so we drop the speech .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so we can might as well s drop that . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And drop it yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Let's drop the speech .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . S Fo Four less Euros . So we still have three and a half Euro to lose .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sixteen Euros .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We need to lose some buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But y y",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah if you lose the the Back , the Okay button {disfmarker} Uh v let's say we only have the four arrows , and the Menu button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then you're {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then and then use um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh and the power button we have also .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The the {disfmarker} Okay . And the menu button does also does the okay function then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then when you in the menu {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that's one Euro .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "S so so you activate the menu .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If we do uh two integrated scroll-wheel push-buttons , we can drop all the the push-buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah ? And {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With with one uh integrated button we can uh do the whole menu thing . With the other , we can do the the channel , the volume , et cetera .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That would save zero point two Euros compared to {disfmarker} No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No it's three Euros . No ? Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . To This together is more expensive than {disfmarker} Oof , it's almost the same as t keeping this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No it's it's n Yeah . Yeah yeah yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And we can drop these two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For example if you have f f four buttons , {vocalsound} channel up and down , uh volume left right {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Volume .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I've {disfmarker} I think we have to keep that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And the power button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then {disfmarker} and the power button . So that's five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's the basic .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's basic . That that's what you need anyway . And then for the menu , um you can have a button that activates menu . Or d or do we just integrate an an an scroll-wheel with a push-button . And then if the moment you use the scroll-wheel , the the the menu gets activated , and then you can scroll , choose an option , click on it , it goes into an feature . Click on it again , selects features , scroll , adjust it . Click again , it's okay . Then you only need one button to move back . Or or under each option , you set a {disfmarker} you set an a screen thing what says back , and you select that one , click again , and you go one step back . And in that menu , scroll , click , one step back .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that then you need five buttons , and one integrated scroll-wheel push-button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Okay th that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we can't drop three buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Which {gap} {disfmarker} That's even {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I see that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's one Euro more expensive .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that's not a good idea .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's not an option .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because which buttons do we have now ? Those five which I mentioned , and then menu , and then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Menu , power .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . F of the four things ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Four arrows ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , th power .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Power . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , if you if you go to eight {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Which more ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know how to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay . So four arrows ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh power I believe ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Power . Th Yeah that's five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} We have a Back and a Okay button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay that's seven ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And the Menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and one to activate the menu , yeah . So okay that's eight . Well we can't reduce that . We we keep the display .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and even if we drop three buttons from here , we still have to make some adjustments around here . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , well okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we need the chip for the for the L_C_ display .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The L_C_D_ ? Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Let's make the {disfmarker} Let's make the case plastic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well we need the advanced {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then I rather make it wood .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Instead of r",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because then also it's good in the market with the forty five plus uh people .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . True .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but but that's not our market .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No that {disfmarker} maybe not . But maybe it's better than plastic anyway .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah no , hard plastic . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Plastic with a with a special colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A woo wood uh wood uh wood colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , plastic with special colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No but I I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's an option . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because we have to use the special colour anyway . You forgot that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we do one one s",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So let's go for the plastic .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Plastic .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And since it's not kinetic , it doesn't have to flip around that much ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh that's easy because plastic is free . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We still have problem of two Euros .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Uh if we dropped uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No the buttons , those are really needed .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah th th it's it's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we can't drop them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "An advanced chip-on-print . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You still need that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Do we really need that advanced chip for an L_C_D_ display ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You {disfmarker} uh uh {disfmarker} Yeah . So the other option would be to go for the the sample speaker , and {disfmarker} Which can use a regular chip , wh which is six Euros in total .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} S",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That doesn't matter .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . I rather keep I rather keep the display .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , I keep the re Yeah . Yeah . Because we already designed for it . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So the only option is an hand dynamo .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and something else .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah but the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh no tha Oh that's one Euro , right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh can't we f uh fit all the buttons in an intreg integrated scroll push-button ? 'Cause that will save us one and a half Euro already . And then if w",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then integrated s Yeah but that would make it not so easy to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No y you would rec",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean it's not that important , easy to use , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then you have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Th then we have to scroll through a lot of menus to be able to get where you want , huh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then you still need two additional buttons I believe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For the volume .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah d at l Yeah . At least one for power .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can use those {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah and power . That's three buttons and this would cost {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Yeah it's just as expensive as what we have now .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But the integrated uh button ? How many func functions can it uh have ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Three . Up , down , Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah endlessly . I mean it can be a power button as soon as it powered on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can go into you in you main menu ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You you press it for like three seconds .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you can choose uh flip channel , uh you can choose sound options , any options .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then then then you should do everything in the menu . On the screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . It would save enough {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Maybe we should . 'Cause we don't have money and w we want the screen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you can choose this , drop these , then we have a half Euro left .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So we can maybe still use power button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but we'd {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I guess we have to .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It s it saves us four Euros and it costs us two and a half . So let's see , we we drop the price by one and a half .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You see ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We'll we'll be on {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But we still have thirteen left .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh still {disfmarker} Yeah ? Oh then I miscalculated . Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thirteen . So still half . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Shit . Drop the special colour . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There goes the special co {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That would make it less appealing . So that's no option .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} 'Kay . What else ? Uncurved ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No no , it has to be um curved .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We sure about the advanced chip we need for the display ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it says right here .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} They made it very easy for us . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah . {vocalsound} {gap} yeah . We made it hard for ourselves with the display , but it's a cool feature .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah , I don't think I can s uh persuade the management to say , this is better for the market so you sell more than {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Wh what we could do is um {disfmarker} drop the the special colour , and uh do the special colour for the buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Buttons . That's {disfmarker} Oh yeah since we only have one button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but I mean what is meant by special colour ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I just m I don't {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just something else than than black or white I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah it's {disfmarker} I think it's grey , regular .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "S yeah . Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Grey and rubber .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we definitely want the thing to be a special colour though .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Of plastic .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Damn .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I rather have an hand dynamo {vocalsound} than than drop the colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah and then {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can still play with it then I guess . I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but a hand dynamo costs a lot of energy to keep the screen working . So I guess that isn't an option .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The display {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , you only have to power it up when you wanna use it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} But if you have to power the for ten minutes , {vocalsound} then the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No I don't think the current status of uh chips are pretty uh energy conserving , no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Let's let's go for the hand dynamo then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah hand dynamo ? Do you want an extra button ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or or do we {disfmarker} Or do we do uncurved and flat ? Instead of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No no it has to be curved .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it has to be curved and has to have that colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Just put a special special colour of the buttons , or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And a screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's the most import",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep ? Instead of an additional power button ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah or spe special form ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . S what what is special f Oh yeah , special form .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe that's nicer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's for scroll {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Without {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we don't have any buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We only have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So do {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But it's it's for the integrated button , I think also . Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "d Uh make it a special colour then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ma make it a special colour then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but it's just a scroll-wheel which you can push down . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Make it a special colour and then it look fancy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Woah we're within budget .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a miracle . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Let's let's save it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "oh ma make it two special colours , but we only have one button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Let's do it like this , I mean , because it does not lose our identity of the product as we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? {vocalsound} Okay . Um , well {disfmarker} {gap} . 'Kay , this was old .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well we come back to the drawing board then , huh ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah all your designs are uh pretty much {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah back to work . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Did I save it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's silly 'cause we we should have had this meeting before we start drawing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but that but that's the fun part of it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I I wanted to go , but I wasn't allowed . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah ? {gap} okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I just forgot to save this . Just a minute . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah what's the next uh phase ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , this the last phase of course , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh the agenda . By your humble P_M_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . {vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh f {vocalsound} Frustrated . {vocalsound} Alright . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well we first should have had a uh prototype presentation . But well as you saw that hadn't made no sense , because we had to drop it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Drop everything . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Drop , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We went straight into finance ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah it was more important , so I just",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "pushed up the agenda .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , evaluation criteria . You have t produced something about that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that that's {disfmarker} Yeah . I uh I sure did . And it combines with product evaluation . Uh so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh you put it in the {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We all have to keep in mind what has changed now . So what we have left on the {disfmarker} Because evaluation is based on the initial uh user requirements .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "F_ five .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Let's make it big . {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} Well we evaluate uh the design with a seven point scale , as following . Well the remote controls according criteria blah blah blah . True or false , and then on a scale of seven points , a {gap} scale , as we all know it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} Well the criteria are based on the user requirements , uh the trends from the marketing research , and the marketing strategy of the company itself . Um well they are in a Word document , which I will open now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Alt up",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . I don't know it's open yet . No . And we all have to uh agree on a certain level . What's this ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Freaky . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . I don't know . Um {disfmarker} Well the first point is the remote control matches the operating behaviour of the young user . So that means the operating behaviour was using quite a lot of functions . How do you think about that ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think it does . Because the operating {gap} behaviour of the young user was also defined in colour and shape and the use of L_C_D_ ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "right ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , of course we dropped a little bit of those uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the us u It it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's it's mainly con mainly concentrating on a lot of functions , in this question .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So do you think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , we have extended menus , on the on the L_C_D_ screen . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You can you can ma",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can make a lot of extended menus . That's true . I mean the the possibilities are almost unlimited , to to build in menus in the screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I {gap} No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So on a scale from one to seven , what do you think ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Two or three . Two or three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh ? Two or three ? Something like that ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well we have to choose one . So uh what do you say ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh y we should fill this in now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I agree on two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I uh I say two , personally . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah in the new design I s would say it's three . But now , in original design I say two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well we have to evaluate I guess what we have now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay then I say three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? You say three ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and you you said al also three ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Three ? Okay well I say still two , but it has to be three then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Hey , you're marketing , eh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I know . So it's made bold . But it's {disfmarker} nah , it's not very clear on the sc",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . M maybe underline .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or give it a colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe other colour , yeah . That's better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Red . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Yeah . Alright . Oh , it doesn't have to be bold anymore .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh yeah very true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Alright . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah true one . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um well the remote control has {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Wha {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} He types everything . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Definitely one . It has to be .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The remote control has irrelevant or less used functions . For example audio settings and screen settings .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It hides uh basic functions . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Everything . {vocalsound} You don't use anything else . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Well , yeah . So it it's a very true point . I mean it hides all those function .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You're not gonna find them .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah true .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But , I mean uh they're hidden in the screen . If you don't want to use them , you don't s you s just scroll over them . And you place them {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} F I don't know where . So that's very true , I guess , for our case .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the next {disfmarker} Not so much so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh the second point . It shows the relevant and most used functions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nope .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Power button . Do we ha still have a power button ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh check with the Excel sheet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah the button's integrated , huh ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think we are {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah it's uh it's integrated .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we dropped it . You j you just push it in for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's in {disfmarker} Oh yeah it was integrateds . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah integrate it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah just just push it in for th for three seconds or something , and then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "E exactly just like a m mobile .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I don't know . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just go scrolling and it will activate . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um it shows the relevant and most used functions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah uh on the other {disfmarker} uh on one side I would say yes , and the other side I would say no . So it's {disfmarker} I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It shows the most used functions and they are relevant , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can you uh change channels directly with with just one button ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , you have to scroll through the menu , before",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "With the scroll butt Yeah and then say channel . And then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So it's it's not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well uh we should b build it so that if you don't kind of push into the menu or something , if {disfmarker} When it's on , yeah , it's turned on ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You say you double click on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It automatically has the the programme and the volume function ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but as soon as you click it you go into the menu or some {gap} {disfmarker} Of you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or you double click it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But but how do you change from volume to channel ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No because it has four arrows , right ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , not anymore .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because he's {gap} now have a scroll-wheel that you can push in .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like on the the mouse .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I was thinking still about our uh integrated joystick .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No we have n we have no buttons left . So {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Say .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the joystick was not an option .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that is a bummer .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} so you hav {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you you have to double-click , I mean , for , I mean , uh volume ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "To get into menu . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and three double click for the menu , or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Or hold it ten seconds . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We'll make it a Morse code .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah . Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But but ease of use was not very important , may I remind you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no no . Uh it should be trendy . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but that that's not a question .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh the remote control shows the relevant and most used functions .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well I think it's pretty much in the middle .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Four .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You have to search for them in in the in the s in the screen , in the menu . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , im {disfmarker} in the menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Seven . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So maybe it's more like a f a five . Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Five .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I would go for five or six , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Five or six ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Five .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Five . Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay five .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Five ? Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's not diss our remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's the weirdest remote control I've ever seen . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Just one button . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well it's different . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Alright . Uh the the remote control makes use of technolog technological innovation like L_C_D_ screen and speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} Uh yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah but we dropped the speech recognition . But it has at least one innovation .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's still {disfmarker} Yeah , I say two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We still have the fruit and vegetable print .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I say two then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , that's the next . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that that's not that's not this question . Uh thi uh that's the other question .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Fr Oh I mean the {disfmarker} Oh never mind . I'm a bit lost .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think a two . No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Two yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think L_C_D_'s more useful than speech {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah definitely .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What ? Oh not the bold one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's way more practical , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right . Okay , it has a fancy look and feel by using fruit and vegetable prints , primary colours and sponge-like material .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It should have been two questions . {vocalsound} I realise now , because {vocalsound} sponge-like material is dropped .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But the look and feel {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You still have rubber d Or no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So we still uh we still have the primary colours . But only on the on the outside , not on the button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No you got a plastic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The button has also colour . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The one button we have . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . The one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah still we we dropped also on the the double uh curve .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you could check with the Excel sheet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You only have one {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we have single curve now ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And and colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and no and no material",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . S",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": ". So maybe in the middle or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Four . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I mean it's",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah or three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "worth the {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We have something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Actually we d we didn't do so well on this one . Because it's basically an old one , uh with little curve on the side , and in a different colour . Still , it's still hard .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I mean the sponge-like and the three D_ shape , that would give it something young and fresh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "New . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But then we would have to drop the screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Red . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh red . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You like both . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} I like bold .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh the remote control displays the corporate logo . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm yeah yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I just couldn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You just have to draw it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um , just one minute .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's the white part uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but it {disfmarker} be because uh we couldn't hardly draw on the b s on the lower half of the screen , we could not make it big enough to actually draw in the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We have a we have a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I mean I wanted to put digits on the buttons as well . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But there's uh enough space for the corporate logo . I mean , {vocalsound} if there's only one thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hell yeah . If we have only one button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So I will say that is very true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And even the shape we have now uh simulates kind of an R_ and the reversed R_ ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "doesn't it ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The remote control is easy to use . Well I would say {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Skill , uh I would say six , or something . I don't think it's easy to use , or not so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The only e the only thing easy about it is that you don't have to move your fingers . 'Cause it has only one button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah i",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And that you only have to control one button . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . It it it has a nice screen . But {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It gives visual feedback . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well I I would say a five or a six .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think a five . Five . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I would say six .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What do you say ? Easy to use ? Five or a six ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's really not easy to use .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No not anymore .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause you're putting everything {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So a six , more .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh I would go for the six too . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Most votes count . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um well , another question ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that looks uh great .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "uh the remote control is durable .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know if that's the correct word .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Nah {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Definitely in casing , 'cause we have a hard plastic",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But uh {disfmarker} In use , both battery as casing ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah because the the batteries , those thingies last forever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? True , true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And the the casing , hard plastic also lasts forever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the casing is plastic , {gap} ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . If you don't drop it too much , it's uh should last pretty long .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I would go for one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? But uh I think rubber compared is better . So I think a two is more appropriate",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . S",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "than {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Wow . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Logo .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay I will go {disfmarker} go for two . {vocalsound} Uh the last one ? The remote control's a good example for company's motto , we put the fashion in electronics .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh . No m",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No we put the electronics into the fashion . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah well {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I would g",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} uh {disfmarker} {gap} turn around . Yeah . But um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I would go for four .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because we kind of tried to but we kind of failed with the budget that we have .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's not {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So a four . It's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it g it g goes , it's not the best we could do , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But it all has to do with the budget , because it's it's not the bad idea we had , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , four is okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright , yeah . Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So if I understood it right , we have to count these numbers .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ooh . And {disfmarker} Yeah ? What ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm-hmm . Oh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh {disfmarker} Alright . Word document , the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we have to count them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Count them . Add them ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Yeah just add them and then uh divide them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Could somebody start calculator ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Mm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah we can do the math . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I all made it po I I all made it",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I all made it possible uh for a positive questions , so we can count it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean if you have reversed question , you have to reverse the scale ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . You have to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh {disfmarker} Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . So four and {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Did you make this questionnaire or what ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Thanks . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Nice work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Three plus ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I wouldn't be able to do it that fast .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "O one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Plus one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Plus five .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Plus five ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh {disfmarker} Easy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bo {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Question number four , yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Four .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Wait a second . Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "F",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's it's gone wrong .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} How hard is it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . It's your turn .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Pretty difficult .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah just use {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Start over ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No it's if you press twice on the plus button , then you get s s",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh there tho uh there's no n There's no num pads .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can {disfmarker} Oh yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . That's why it's uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a it's a bit uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just type in the digits . They're all one digit numbers right ? And then you can count them together .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think you can just count them by a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just count it to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um let's move over .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Three , four , nine .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Three , plus one , four . Nine .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah . Are you here ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Eleven .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Eleven .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Eleven ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Fifteen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Fifteen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "fifteen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sixteen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sixteen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sixteen , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Seventeen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Seventeen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No sixteen . Uh sixteen plus six .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh what ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Twenty two . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "S Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} How hard is this ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Twenty two . Twenty two , yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Twenty four . Twenty six .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Never mind . Twenty four . Twenty eight .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Tw",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , sorry . {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Twenty {disfmarker} Twenty eight .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That was the last one . That was that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh my .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Twenty eight .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Twenty eight .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So divided by nine .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Twen Uh okay . By nine .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's uh three uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Or le less than a three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the lower the {disfmarker} The lower the score the better , right ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Twenty eight",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Divided by nine .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "di divided by nine",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So thr t two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "makes three point one one one one one one one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we're better than average .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I Are you sure we {disfmarker} this number actually tells us somethings ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so because some questions are related to positive issues and some to negative .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Some questions are {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So if you give a true to a positive , it actually means that the low {disfmarker} the lower the better . But if you give true to a negative question {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but there are no negative questions I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Good example . Durable use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Durable , that's good .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Easy to use . This {gap} is good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Easy to use . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Fancy look and feel , that's good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Technology innovation was good , because of a marketing uh requirement .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Also good . Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Re relevant most used function .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I guess you did do it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And hides these functions . {vocalsound} That was also a good thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah yeah . No {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then matches the opera of the {gap} user was also a good thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it were all positive questions , by uh by purpose . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , so the {disfmarker} It tells us something , yes . Becau But the picture would be a lot different if we didn't have to drop those uh those things , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh great .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Things , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah definitely definitely .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because now it's just an average {disfmarker} It's remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Nah it it's it's better than average , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay because of the L_C_D_ screen . But uh it looks and stuff , it still uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So th",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's still {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Has some shortcomings .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's not , it's not really eye-catching , except for the colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The colour and the screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um this we had , this we had . We have to do a product evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Product evaluation .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh prototype presentation we dropped . So {disfmarker} Uh the finance we looked . We have redesigned . Uh not on that , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we we have to maybe if we have to redesign it on this {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So you can just make one big L_C_D_ screen . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay it's your turn now . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Shall we try ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} With some casing around it , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Black . Okay uh we're still gonna go for the fancy colours ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But are we gonna stick with the green or are we gonna do blue ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we we can just uh use this one . And then uh over-paint it with uh uh the green uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The the button has a special colour , the frame has a special colour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "he only needs one button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "One scroll button and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's plastic . {vocalsound} And single curved .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Or we have to delete this one or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh and you might want to add a uh infrared LED .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh {disfmarker} oh no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Otherwise it uh doesn't function uh so well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "For what ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Do we have to do other things ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I have to um um make an uh report of every decision we made so far .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or just redesign ? {vocalsound} Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And I try to get chip just before uh I uh receive the Excel sheet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you made a start , right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah I'm I'm somewhere , but maybe you can help me .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Should give it some time ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but how do we make the the scroll uh button ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I was here . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's just one {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Have to take this away also .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And this um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh that's the infrared uh {vocalsound} thing . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The the target group has a weak spot for fruit and vegetables , like primary colours , spongy shape .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um pen yeah ? Format . Current colour red .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The playfulness , we decided to use kinetic energy as a power sour",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh {disfmarker} Yeah we did our special colour for the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Line widths , now that's a ten .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's conceptual , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's enough to get started with , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um , uh it's just a scroll {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's gonna be one str scroll .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , is it's horizontal or vertical ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "How many pages ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I just took one for every step and then a conclusion .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright . Y you have you have done the first two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Horizontal's easier too ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , and and the look and feel is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is it more natural than this ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well I think I have to make a p an issue called finance .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So let's say {disfmarker} Whoops . 'Kay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Basically . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It doesn't look like uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The items we had to drop . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh it {disfmarker} it's it's not {disfmarker} Yeah . It's not very fashionable anymore . But uh it's okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's really ugly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Where did we start with price ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe m make it bigger ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Twenty six and a half .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or not ? Or twenty six ? Something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That looks little bit more uh {disfmarker} Maybe that's a s a special colour for it . So we can make it uh special ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What do you mean ? Like a other colour than this one ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Or or speckles in it ? I dunno . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Speckles ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah can we do it uh {disfmarker} uh can we do a print ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "..$ I'm not sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "... . I don't think so , if you see the options . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think we have to choose , yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay special colour . We do have special colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah red is already a special colour , I think . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Does it mean uh that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's not very special , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Shall we just give it some dots to make it look pretty ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Just uh put the purple uh purple on it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Purdy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Some some big dots .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Purple ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's trendy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh no my remote has acne .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "... . We have the original balance sheet , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Woah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . That's why we have that button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's so cute .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Oh what ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Doh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Woah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Just cut . Control Z_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is that that ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How the {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} did we do that ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh it's it's just one computer ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Just dual screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . But can we delete it , just with delete ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We can try .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That doesn't respond also to the undo . It looks like it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Crashed . {vocalsound} Oh , no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Very nice .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Where do you want some more dots ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , over here . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You can't even draw anymore .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Y y you you {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What's this ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Even children can draw . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you push the button or something . Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Can you just push pen and then keep on {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . Oh that's the select button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , it's not the prettiest , I know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , it looks {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's not so random huh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Lot of options .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's okay . Specially the the R_ . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the R_ and another R_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's called the Real Remote , right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe maybe it c it can say that . The Real Remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah just on the the m um the L_C_D_ display .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Welcome . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is your Real Remote . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We can make a l a logo .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like uh {gap} put it like the shape .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "D designed by {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Something like that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean it's not too uh {disfmarker} That's not their logo , is it ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . Do they have a lo {disfmarker} Oh , the {disfmarker} here . This i this is the logo .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Two R_s and a one {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You can just reuse that , because the name is the same . Initials .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can copy and paste the picture if you want .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How {gap} {disfmarker} Shall we do the logo in black or not ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} What is that ? Look more {disfmarker} Looks more like a campfire .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Are you dissing my drawing ? {vocalsound} This one ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It looks like a ribbon . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So who wants to draw ? This is actually quite fun . Do we need to do anything ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Are we uh ready ? Uh {disfmarker} Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I hear you people are typing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Type in your report .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't see any new messages . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Luckily .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ? Luckily , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is this uh the last assignment ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah , it's uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Final {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's almost four .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What time do we have to deliver the report ? Four o'clock or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} At four , yeah , {gap} ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or before that ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And copy this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just compare uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just a minute .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This is really bizarre .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It looks like there's a {disfmarker} It looks like a butterfly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um bug . Bug .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's somewhere {disfmarker} I d It isn't inside .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No it's in inside the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and don't know how it's {disfmarker} or eject it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No it's on the on the beamer I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No it {disfmarker} Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "From up there ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , but it i It's not a bu a beamer .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "B It's a normal T_V_ screen , kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's somewhere in here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hey , you've got it uh read only . So you have to uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Save copy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Strange . This something what's projection from behind , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's too uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Yeah there is some kind of projection I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it it's a beamer , but then with a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "With a with a mirror , huh ? Or something .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "within a mirror , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it looks like a big screen , but {gap} {disfmarker} in fact it isn't .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So are we gonna change anything to this ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean is it gonna {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well it's it's single single curved .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's now single curved . So {disfmarker} It's flat . Oh no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This is gonna be flat . Yeah exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Th this is flat . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . It doesn't matter . It's it's {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But it's it's better to have in the front , this kind of shape , because it looks nice .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean you see more of this than of that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , more like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And this is also gonna be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's not very uh ideal . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nope .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do like this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But sometimes then uh all of a sudden it does work .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . What's this ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's the detector uh for the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ooh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Maybe {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I don't see a detector over there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No it's {disfmarker} I think you only need two points . Or not . No , you sh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I thought it was a kind of thing to put it on , and then draw right lines or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe that's why it's it's not working , because it's more {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Slanted yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Or just messed it up . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well maybe .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound} Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it it matters for the aim of this thing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but it wasn't good . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You've to make it s uh ninety degrees .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it it has to touch the corners , I guess . But th this one wasn't good , because if I was drawing here , I drew a line and then it came over here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um now you probably have to recalibrate .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You have {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , five minutes to the end of the meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh we're always long .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And the recalibration is done using this icon here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , can we t can we get to that @ i",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ooh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh it's not working anymore . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well I just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah yeah , it's it's okay . It's working again .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah , it's it's working , it's working .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's better than before .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We're improving uh {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You go ahead .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's improved uh pretty much .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it's only a bit like to that side , but that is that one by the way .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah but it's better , it's better {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause this one makes the angle either like this . So i if I change this , it will go there , if I change that , will go there .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . No . It's better than it was I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . I will take this away 'cause it looks messy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Silly . Yeah . Works pretty well . Five minutes before the meeting's over .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then I have to uh uh write this ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We have to present {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and I don't know if you have to present , because I didn't receive any information about that so far .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we will .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we get a a final mail .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it {disfmarker} after the {disfmarker} after after these five minutes , you have to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah , I have still ten minutes to finish the report .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What's this anyway ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So cake . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright . After after that five minutes , you have ten minutes to finish it , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It looks like candle wax .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright . And we uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you can uh just uh relax and uh have cup of coffee or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right . Chill . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "oh no , they don't have beer here so you can't celebrate .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can just if you ma finish my presentation please . Uh over there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The presentation is still open . So if you finish that then you'll see uh {disfmarker} Yeah next .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Next slide .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , we have to do the project uh evaluation . Just uh do that quickly .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How do you do it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh well basically what that says , we discuss it and um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So how were {disfmarker} did the project process uh go ? Did you , were you all pleased with the process as it was ? Or are there uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh th uh do you mean the the interaction between us ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the interaction and the steps we followed , and and so forth .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well at first I was really stressed . Because it went a bit fast .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But then as I knew the tempo that I had to be on , the second time I think I did a bit better .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the third time yeah , I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And we move more to to working together as team ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because at first you you make your individual contribution , and then come here , and you have no idea what the others have to make .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then finally you have some idea , okay this is gonna w this is what we gonna make together and okay I will arrange this and you will arrange that ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and you have a k a kind of idea what you can expect on the next half hour when you have to work on your own . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The process , I mean , the interaction between us became better and better I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Especially after the first meeting .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , especially if f f if you see {disfmarker} uh you se you saw the largest difference from the first to the second meeting I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Definitely .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay and was that due to my leadership ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well you did become more assertive the the second time round , so that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You were more in charge kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . Um was there uh enough room for creativity ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I guess so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but only the the financial parts uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Li Limiteded afterwards ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} If if you don't take that into account , there's plenty of room for creativ creativity .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Also not only the drawing and the the making of the thing itself , but also in explaining it to the other people , by means of uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We were pretty democratic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the the board and uh PowerPoint and Word and stuff like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So and the {disfmarker} uh about the board {gap} digital pen ? Uh was that helpful or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ooh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm uh I think in in essence",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the digital pen is better than the SMARTboard . Because it it it just works better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it works . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean uh uh I've made {disfmarker} yeah , uh I've made several notes just to test it , and and just put the pen in into it , and then it came onto my screen and it looked perfectly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So it it's better a better device than uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Maybe {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "than the screen . But the screen is useful , in essence , but it doesn't work that well . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's uh it's {disfmarker} The the pen is more intuitive , 'cause we're all used to writing with pen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Use the pen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh as I said , uh I uh have no idea how PowerPoint works , so will take me half a day to be able to make a normal PowerPoint presentation .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But once I get to know the program probably , I mean , it looks better , you know . Or uh something like that . You can give it a kind of a home style , like we have i the the logo and everything .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker} I don't know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Blink . Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Warning . Finish meeting now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Finish meeting .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , are are there {vocalsound} any new ideas about this ? All I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I didn't really receive , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's use especially useful , I guess , to to evaluate designs and graph graphical stuff .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh uh w uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And and",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S sorry uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the {gap} screen and stuff like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think the PowerPoint is is too limited . You can't uh draw easy in in PowerPoint . It has to be uh {disfmarker} yeah . The drawing board has to be integrated into PowerPoint , so that you can just easily {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah the the the problem with PowerPoint for me is that you have to i put in the pre-made chunks c as well .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You know , you can draw something on the sketch-board and then take it there , or whatever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . But it it's useful to to show something to to an {disfmarker} a small audience , and then to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah just for text , for text it's uh it's okay . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . These these kind of screens this size are useful to discuss things . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Check your email .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh we should uh enter our questionnaire . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} You also . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Woah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes boss .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , s see you in a second huh ? {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's the management . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well see you soon .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hope so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound} we have to pull it this way , huh ? Wait .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
}
] |
TS3007a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"24",
"303"
]
],
"topic": "Brief introduction of the project and tool training during team building"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"305",
"314"
]
],
"topic": "Financial targets of the new remote control project"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"316",
"373"
]
],
"topic": "New useful features of the new remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"381",
"436"
]
],
"topic": "General plan of the next meeting about the user requirements and technical functions"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager gave a brief introduction of the new remote control project for television sets. During team building, team members got to know each other by drawing their favorite animals with technical devices. When it came to the financial targets, Project Manager planned that the remote control would be priced at 25 Euros on the premise of the 12.5-Euro production cost, and the profit is targeted at 50 million Euros. The market range would be international. Then, ideas about new technical features of the remote control were proposed, such as radio waves and bluetooth, in order to distinguish the product from current ones. Finally, some general arrangements for the next meeting about user requirements and technical functions were made by Project Manager and each team member was required to think on the most important thing from their own point of view.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The remote control would be priced at 25 Euros, produced at the cost of 12.5 Euros. Since the company has international market range, at least 2 million units would have to be sold to meet the company's profit goals of 50 million Euros.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about financial targets of the new remote control project.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"305",
"315"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface believed the most important function is to switch channels, and so it would be better to keep the remote control as basic as possible. Marketing proposed that the remote control had to be multi-purpose to be competitive among current products. Project Manager agreed to do something special on the product, but PM also pointed out being user-friendly was also of importance.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about new remote control features?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"316",
"373"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing put forward innovative ideas including using radio waves and bluetooth. In the proposal, some potential problems about high cost and being limited to marketing aspects had also been mentioned by Marketing. Based on this, PM agreed that those ideas could help the product to be special and competitive, but PM also pinpointed that such a product required strong support of high technology. Besides, being user-friendly should not be ignored.",
"query": "What did Project Manager think about new remote control features proposed by Marketing?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"334",
"376"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing recommended developing a multi-purpose remote control because most of the remote controls on the market were made just for one purpose. Besides, Marketing suggested to use some other technology, such as radio waves and bluetooth, than infrared because it could be easily affected by obstacles. Thirdly, a nice added feature was to inform users of the coming programmes. Marketing conceived a high-tech remote control to be competitive among other products.",
"query": "What did Marketing recommend to do and why when discussing new useful features of the new remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"340",
"350"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager gave each team member different tasks. Project Manager asked Industrial Designer to look at the working design, User Interface to work on the technical functions and Marketing to be responsible for user requirements. User Interface recommended to achieve some agreement on whether to use the new remote control for multiple systems, and User Interface also asked whether to use a text screen or bluetooth. Besides, Project Manager also demanded that everyone in the group should individually ponder the most important thing in this project from their own perspective.",
"query": "What did the group plan to discuss for the next meeting?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"381",
"436"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Good morning .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Good morning .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Morning .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Good morning .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh before I start with the with the meeting I have a few things to tell you about the the setting we're in , uh because we're uh being watched by uh Big Brother . So um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "By Big Brother ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This uh {disfmarker} These are cameras , so are these . This thing uh that looks like a pie ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "are actually all microphones .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you must be careful with uh with uh all this . And uh as I can see you uh you have placed your laptops uh exactly on the place where it must be . And that has to do with the camera settings , so we don't have our uh laptops in front of the cameras .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Of our faces .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker} Indeed . So they can see our faces .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Welcome at the kick-off meeting . My name is uh Danny Wolfs . {vocalsound} Uh this is the agenda for today . Uh first a little opening . Uh I will introduce myself , uh and uh I think it's very uh good to introduce uh yourself . Uh then uh a little bit of acquaintance , acquaintance to uh to to ourselves . So uh we get to know each other . Uh that will be done uh with a tool training from the he these two uh smart boards . Then the project plan . What we're going to do , and how we're going to do it . Uh and discussion about that and a little closing at the end . {vocalsound} Okay uh , my name is uh Danny Wolfs . I'm the Project Manager . What's your name ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm Juergen Toffs . I'm the User Interface Designer .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "User interface , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hi , my name's uh {gap} . I'm the Industrial Designer .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Industrial , yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm uh Tim {gap} . Um my function is the Marketing Expert .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you . First a little about the project aim . Uh the the the aim is to make a new remote control . Uh maybe you have read uh read the website . It's a very uh , yeah , very uh ambitious uh company . They uh they wanna do something else . I w Uh there must be a new remote control . Uh first of all uh it must be original , uh and trendy . That's two things really uh close to each other . But at the same time uh user-friendly . And they have uh {disfmarker} Yeah , that's uh very important uh for them . Uh there are three stages . There is a functional design . So uh what are we going uh to uh to do ? What are we going to uh uh make f uh kind of functions in the remote ? And why are we going to do it ? Then the conceptual design . How are going to do it ? {vocalsound} And that's uh really global . Uh because at the detailed design , how , part two , uh we go uh to dig in uh really about how the the te the technical of {disfmarker} If it's uh it's possible technical-wise .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh each stage is uh {vocalsound} uh is broken up in two uh two stages , individual work and a meeting . So it's uh it's very straightforward . {vocalsound} Okay , the tool training . We have two smart boards . {vocalsound} This one is for the presentations , the PowerPoint presentations or the Word presentation of whatever you uh you had . Uh and this is uh only for uh drawing . So uh we uh must let it uh stand on this uh this programme . {vocalsound} This is called a smart board",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Speaks for itself .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "thing uh {disfmarker} Yeah , it speaks for itself . Um and as you uh may have heard , the documents in the shared folder uh can be uh showed on this screen . Not in y the the My Documents . So if you wanna show something , put it in the shared folder . {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} This uh is {gap} very straightforward , with the save , the print , the undo , the blank , the select , the pen . Well , I don't uh gonna explain it all ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because I think you know uh how it works . Um we must not forget uh everything we draw on here , uh all must be saved . We we may not delete anything . So uh if you have uh drawn something , save it . Never delete it . That's a very important uh thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh little uh little {vocalsound} kinda exercise to uh know each other .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} At uh the white board on the left . Every uh every one of us uh must draw our favourite animal ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} and uh tell uh tell us why we uh had uh chosen that animal . Uh important is that we use different colours , {vocalsound} and uh different pen widths . Widths . Widths .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I have a question .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um this exercise , um did the company board tell you to do it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or uh did you just make it up yourself ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no no . It's uh it's uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I I I must do it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's part of the introduction ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , yeah . 'Cause we uh really don't know each other ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh it's kinda new . So getting used to each other , we can uh have a little fun then , before we uh dig in really to the hard stuff .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That kind of thing . Would you start with drawing your uh favourite animal ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , yeah . I don't know really how it works . But maybe you can show us first ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , okay . Yeah , okay . Drawing goes with uh this thing . Do not touch your hand on uh this little uh thingy here . That's uh important .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So hold it uh like this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You g you get electrocuted or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , kinda . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} You must p p uh push a little uh {disfmarker} Good . Because {disfmarker} And uh wait uh wait a few seconds . It's not uh fully real-time , so uh watch it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ach . {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . Well I'm gonna paint in the red .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ooph .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's the background colour . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , undo . Um {disfmarker} The pen ? No . One minute please . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's the one . Well , five . Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} My favourite animal huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's like Pictionary ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can guess what it is .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The the one who says it first {vocalsound} gets a raise .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} May uh paint uh next .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a pork ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No , it's not an orc . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You don't see it uh at the ears ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah , I have it at home . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You have an orc at home ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Very artistic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it's a cat . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What's it called ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Simba . 'Cause uh we have a cat at home",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and he's called Simba . 'Cause he looks like the uh the the lion from The Lion King .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Miniature size ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we uh found it kinda cool to uh name it after a lion .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "He's happy with us , so uh he's smiling .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Wow . He does have body uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , only the face . Because we have we have twen twenty five minutes . So we uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . We have to speed up .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Remember you use uh different colours , and different pen widths .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay , who wants to go next ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So choose a colour , choose a pen width and draw a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You don't have to change the colour and the pen width during uh the drawing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Save it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You have to save it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Save it , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I've done it . New ? 'Kay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You have to draw uh push hard on the pen or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm uh {disfmarker} Not really .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Kind of firm touch .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Uh hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Okay . Open . Which one is it ? Smart board ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And now ? Okay . Okay , thanks . 'Kay , I've speed up . 'Kay , that's fine . Line width .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "By the way , why was your cat uh red ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because uh my cat is red uh at home .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I have red hair , so uh must be red .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's a very bloody cat .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh , yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a frog . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , it's a turtle . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh it's an apple . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's not an apple .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Must be a dog . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A dog ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Colour . {vocalsound} Something like this . Smaller .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , it is a turtle .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It is a turtle . Why a turtle ? Why ? Tim ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} 'Cause I liked Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You watched it a lot ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You watched it a lot ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's uh inside its shell . You'll be uh finished sooner .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , it's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's a scared turtle .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No no . {vocalsound} It's coming up . Mm . Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Wow .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , Tim . Thank you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Something like this . {vocalsound} Okay , you know {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Very artistic .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Jurgen , you want to go next ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes {gap} . Okay . Wha Thank you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Here you go .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How did it work ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Format ? And then you have the the current colour ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Performance ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you can change . So no red or green .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And a pen ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh line uh width . I had five .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Tim had {disfmarker} Uh Tim , what kinda line width did you have ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh the big lines were like nine .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . It's a dog .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , very good . {vocalsound} I just uh thought I'd pick the easiest one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Why a dog ? You have a dog at home ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , we had a dog , a few years ago .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Had a dog ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it's p",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And and it , {gap} yeah , when it died we didn't get a new one or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's pretty good uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You have an artistic uh inner middle .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound} An artist .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh a Graphical User Designer , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hey .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Think you uh picked the wrong uh function . Wrong job .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No . Can work together . Ah colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So I think you can see it's real uh really a easy programme to use . Not difficult at all .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Wha",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's okay {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "thank you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's enough ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "thanks . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Janus ? The last one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh thanks .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I wonder .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . After a cat , a turtle and a dog .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think he's gonna draw an elephant . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I figure I should do something like that ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but I'm gonna do something much more difficult .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh-oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh-oh . Oh , he is the artistic {gap} design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm gonna design a remote uh {vocalsound} remote control animal . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Remote control animal .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Exactly . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sorry .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well with the interface , it might be easier to ha to draw here and display there uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That that might be easier . But at the other hand , uh a pen like that is easy to hold in your hand , and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think it's easier to draw .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Better to draw with a with {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . With a pen than with a mouse mouse .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Than on the , with {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I m I mean like uh like on here , drawing drawing uh . And then displaying on screen , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mouth . Oh , okay . Yeah . W with this paper it's too mu too expensive . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But what is he uh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Too expensive , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is it a rabbit ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do you have a rabbit at home ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a rabbit with uh broken legs ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A green rabbit .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is it a white rabbit f It's the white rabbit from The Matrix .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , exactly . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , then yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There , the g white green rabbit .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} He's a little bit stoned there . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh I figured this is a pretty b good impression of a rabbit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It will do .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh uh {disfmarker} Uh well .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Finishing touch and then we're going further .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Project Manager ? Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Where does the pen go ? Just uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Have you been uh counting the time ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , a little . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Let's go on then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think the dog is the the most uh artistic .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh I figured the rabbit was actually the most uh impressive . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Don't choose for youself .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh , sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's selfish . Okay , now we're gonna dig into the to the serious stuff .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's pretty abstract .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh the selling price for the remote will be uh twenty five Euro , and the production cost uh may not be more than uh twenty and a half Euro . So uh from my point of view , I don't think it's uh gonna be very uh very high tech , high definition , uh ultra modern uh kinda remote , for twelve uh fift uh twelve and a half Euro .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh the profit we must make with uh the new remote is uh fifty million Euro . So that's a lot . We have to sell uh a lot of uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , how much is it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like how much ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hundred million uh remotes or something ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh I think uh w when the selling price is twenty five , uh uh you got two million , two million remotes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Twenty million . Two million , oh yeah , two million . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But our marketing range is uh , market range is international . So we have uh virtually the whole world we can sell uh we can sell our r remotes to . At least that uh countries which have uh a television .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} So now it's time uh for us to uh going uh to discuss a little uh things . You can think about uh experience with a remote control uh yourself , at home . What you think might be uh a useful uh new feature . What uh what can distinguish our new trendy remote control from all the others . Um so uh let's uh let's uh discuss a little . I'm gonna join you at the table . {vocalsound} Well what what's the most uh important thing at a remote control ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um well I think the most important thing of a remote control is that you can switch channels . And my opinion is you should keep it as basic as possible . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So not a not a remote control who uh uh which can uh can be used for television and a D_V_D_ and radio and {disfmarker} Or just only {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I think so . Uh but I have some points . Can I show them on the on the big screen ? Maybe ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you have them on uh {disfmarker} I can uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , I can find {disfmarker} Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Oh , in case you want it {disfmarker} This is a dead kind of fly . Between the the the , yeah , the the uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Screen ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , be The screens .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is it possible to open pen drawings in this uh on this screen ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No no no . Only {disfmarker} All the drawings go there , at the left uh {disfmarker} {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh but um which {disfmarker} The ones we made on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , that pen drawings . Uh no , I think uh when it is uh in Word and you have saved it in the Shared Documents folder , you can show it there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , only in Word ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I have some uh points from marketing point of view .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um just the standard thing li things like uh intuitive , uh small , fairly cheap . Uh it's pretty cheap , twenty five Euros . Uh brand independent . Um I think , it doesn't have to matter uh which brand your T_V_ or other thing is . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay . Five minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Five minutes ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I'll wrap it up quickly . Um I personally think it has to be multi-purpose .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh most of the remote c uh remote controls are uh just for one purpose .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh by making it multi-purpose , it uh has a new feature , adds a new feature to the market , and distinguish from uh from current products .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um maybe some other technology than infrared . Uh I rather find it very annoying um , like when someone is standing in front of the T_V_ then you can't switch it . Um {vocalsound} think about um sending it over radio waves or bluetooth .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That might be a little bit uh expensive . Um {disfmarker} And something like an L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For what purpose ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um uh like I said here um {disfmarker} Maybe it's easy . It's nice as an added feature feature , that um , {vocalsound} when you're on a certain channel , you can see on the L_C_D_ screen uh what programmes are coming up or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So it be uh a multi-purpose uh very technically uh high uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "From my point of view , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "remote ? Yeah , it must be really uh innovative , technical-wise ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it has to be uh {disfmarker} Yeah , our company is very uh good in making new innovative uh things .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . So yeah , I I agree with you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So i i i i",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we must focus on things who are really uh really add something to uh to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To the current market .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Look , {vocalsound} you got some cheap uh remote controls there . They just uh {disfmarker} Yeah , you got a dozen of 'em .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But when you enter a new market with a remote control and",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh wanna gain market share",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you have to do something special , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But we have to keep an eye that it's {disfmarker} Uh at the beginning of such a project , it's it's it's very uh cool to talk about , well , this would be cool , that would be cool .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh but we must not uh lose uh sight of the the user uh uh friendly uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And and the price . {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But it's {disfmarker} But but this is just from marketing uh aspect .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay . Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know anything about user interface or {vocalsound} design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} And that's because we have him . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And and him . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And him . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , uh next meeting will start in thirty minutes . So uh you uh will have uh individual actions where I presume uh will be some feedback , uh via the m the mail . Um {vocalsound} the the the Industrial uh Designer has to uh look at the working design . {vocalsound} Uh the User Interface Designer has to look at the technical functions . So that's the thing we uh discussed .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um one thing uh ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we must first agree on uh what we're going to m going to make . Do we {disfmarker} Are we going to use um it it for multiple systems ? Or uh {disfmarker} We should have some agreement on that before we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Um wha",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Mm uh I I don't think we have to be , we have to agree on that . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I figure we could get back to it on the next meeting actually .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think th that's a pha Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's a phase further .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ju just uh make some mock-ups , some some general ideas .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And and then we can plan {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We can plan further , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But maybe , because uh you are working on the user requirements , you are working on the technical functions , we uh must uh have a little or kinda uh uh uh {disfmarker} How do you call it ? Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Consensus on the , what we're gonna do .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh a little plan on on what we're going to do . So you don't uh uh come up with the user requirements who don't fit the the the the technical functions at all . Some basic things we co we want to going to do . Uh I think that's well uh {disfmarker} Yeah . Will come in handy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . You decide . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You're the Project Manager .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "W {vocalsound} He says {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "if the technical functions have to be designed , I I've gotta know for what kind of machines they will be .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or do we use it a text screen ? Or uh will it be with uh with bluetooth or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , th that's that's really a step further . But if you say uh {vocalsound} is it uh uh one way or multi-purpose , that's a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh tha that's a same step further .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Why ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , actually it is .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Why ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Then looking at individual components ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so that's actually a f step further .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like we all have a list of uh things that has to b that have to be in it , or how it has to be like . And then in the next meeting we decide",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we can take it from there .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "w what it's gonna be .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I agree uh , we can take it from there .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A And then you s then you can delete uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or edit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the o the obsolete uh details .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "each individually i individually uh must think on what's uh at uh his point of view is the most important . And uh then we're going to fit uh all the pieces together the next meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I must finish off now ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so it's over . You uh will receive specific specific instructions uh by your personal coach . And I see you in uh thirty minutes . Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , cheers .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sorry .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Be careful .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Damn .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Success ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . No . Come up .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3007b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"15",
"22"
]
],
"topic": "General schedule of the meeting given by Project Manager"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"23",
"59"
]
],
"topic": "New findings from marketing trend watch"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"60",
"80"
]
],
"topic": "Industrial Designer's opinions on the Bluetooth technology and functions of remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"96",
"151"
]
],
"topic": "User Interface's opinions about the technical functions of the design and usability functions"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"285",
"433"
]
],
"topic": "Project Manager's brief summary of this meeting"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager firstly gave some main points of the design of remote control. The Internet would be the main focus and the proposal of multi-purpose remote control was clearly rejected. Besides, the customer group expanded to those younger than 40. Then group members respectively gave presentations about the conception of the functions of remote control. Based on a questionnaire, Marketing concluded that the remote control should be simple, the buttons bigger and for minor functions. Industrial Designer rejected the idea of using Bluetooth and indicated that infrared would be better and within the budget. Industrial Designer believed that remote control should be simple and suggested sticking to basic things of remote control. User Interface also agreed to keep it simple and put forward the idea of using a touch screen and being user-friendly. Finally, Project Manager led the team to further discuss detailed questions like menus, parental control, update service.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager mentioned four points. Firstly, Project Manager pointed out that teletext was outdated and internet would be the main focus. Then it was proposed that the remote control would only be used for TV, rather than a multi-purpose one. What's more, the project should target a new customer group, which was younger than 40. Logo and slogan of the remote control were required to attract more attention, but it was not for now.",
"query": "What did Project Manager mention when giving general arrangements at the very beginning of the meeting?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"15",
"22"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Based on those findings, Marketing thought the main focus should be put on the audience from 16 to 45 because they were the biggest share, which could bring more profit. Also, Marketing thought there was a need to improve the most used functions, and therefore, the buttons needed to be bigger and for minor functions. Less buttons and minor functions would make it easier and quicker for users to learn. What's more, a placeholder would help users to keep remote controls.",
"query": "What did Marketing discuss about improving new remote control features based on the questionnaire?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"23",
"59"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer compared infrared technology with Bluetooth technology, and pointed out that the latter cost more. To build a remote control with Bluetooth was impossible within the budget. He suggested using infrared technology. When it came to the speech function, Industrial Designer didn't give a clear answer for not being sure about the cost, and he/she just left it as something to explore.",
"query": "What did Industrial Designer think of the remote control with Bluetooth and other new technology when discussing the possibility of applying different technologies?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"60",
"69"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer first explained how the remote control worked and how people could build one. Based on this, he rejected the idea of using Bluetooth, which was proposed during the last meeting, by pointing out that the cost would be over the budget. From the aspect of Industrial Designer, he/she recommended to keep the remote control simple and still use infrared technology. When it came to the design and functionality, Industrial Designer thought that they should stick to the basic things.",
"query": "What did Industrial Designer propose to build a new remote control when discussing the Bluetooth technology and the functions of remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"60",
"80"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface also suggested to keep the remote control simple and ease down on the functionality. Keeping the remote control simple meant that fewer functions were involved, or at least less buttons were made, which could be solved by a hierarchy structure supported by a touch screen. Besides, User Interface mentioned the importance of being user friendly. According to User Interface, the remote control should be only used for TV.",
"query": "What did User Interface think about the features of the new remote control when discussing the technical functions of the design and usability functions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"153",
"190"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager emphasized that the main point in this meeting was to keep the remote control as simple as possible, but more options and functions, like the menu and the parental control could be added. User Interface suggested making a remote control which had a functionality for all the TVs and users could enter the codes to set their TVs. Marketing proposed that people could go to the service center or the shop for the updates of the remote control.",
"query": "What did the group discuss at the end of the meeting when summarizing the whole meeting?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"289",
"417"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hey guys .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I see my bunny is still standing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No one drawing it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's too beautiful .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , true .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh I figured uh that much . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Too wicked .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A minute please , my uh laptop is uh {disfmarker} oh , there it is , thank you . So welcome back . {vocalsound} At the functional design meeting um the plan is uh that uh each one of you , so not me but only you uh will uh present uh the the things you worked on uh the last uh half hour . I will uh take minutes and will put uh the minutes that I have uh at the end of the session in the shared folder . {vocalsound} Also the minutes of the previous session are also in the shared folder now , so you can read that uh now or afterwards . Um {vocalsound} uh I had an email from the from the management board",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh , I don't know if you a al also uh received it , but there were four points uh which uh I think are very important . First one is uh they think that uh teletext teletext becomes outdated uh and internet will be the the main uh focus . {vocalsound} Uh second one is also important uh , because it's one of the discussion points of the previous session . Uh the remote control shou should onl only be used for the television , so it uh not gonna it's not gonna be a multi-purpose remote control , so uh that's one thing to keep in mind .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh second , and I think that's important for the Marketing uh Expert , uh the current uh customers uh are in the age group group of uh forty years and older , but with this uh new remote uh they uh will uh {disfmarker} would like to reach uh a group uh younger than uh forty . Uh and uh I think to keep in mind , but not really uh for now is that they uh want the the the slogan and the and the logo uh to uh to be recognised more in the remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , we have uh forty minutes , so I think uh not more than ten minutes uh uh per presentation uh each , and please uh use uh all the the the facilities so that you have either SMARTboards , the the Word files , what you uh {disfmarker} whatever you want . So uh Tim , can you start ? Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} 'Kay , welcome . I have some uh new findings on uh Marketing Expert level ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "which I will show you . {vocalsound} The method I used was um giving orders to our usability lab uh to do a questionnaire . Um {vocalsound} one hundred respondents were involved and my marketing uh department generated a report with a lot of results . Um , these were a couple of findings , first page of three . Um , we have three audiences of {disfmarker} two audiences , {vocalsound} I'm sorry . Uh the first one , this scale , from sixteen to forty five {gap} age . Uh the second one is from sixty four {disfmarker} uh forty six to sixty five . Um , as you can see here , the market share for the first audience is about sixty percent {disfmarker} um sixty five . Uh second audience audience is uh thirty five percent . Mm {vocalsound} and some interests from the from the age groups , uh it seems like the young users of remote controls really like the fancy uh new technology stuff , like uh an L_C_D_ screen on the remote control , um speech recognition . I don't think that's uh really appropriate . Um , {vocalsound} and when you see uh the audience , the age is going up uh {disfmarker} Yeah , they don't really want it anymore , at least the new technologies . Second findings {vocalsound} out of the questionnaire um are the opinion {vocalsound} the opinions uh of the audience about current remote controls . First point is , seventy five percent of the users find the most repo remote controls very ugly , uh and eighty percent of the users would spend more money when a remote control would look fancy . So that's maybe something for the User Interface uh Designer . Okay , third findings . According to the frequency of use versus importance investigation , um {vocalsound} following buttons are most important . Um , I will tell something about the way this uh this test was , yeah , done . Um , {vocalsound} persons were asked uh what the buttons were uh they use most , how much an hour ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and uh in the second table the importance of those buttons . Um , when you multiply them , you get the {disfmarker} these three points . Switching channels , um yeah , that's pretty uh pretty normal , that's what you do with a remote control . Um the second , teletext , uh and the third , uh volume controls . Um , I think it's good uh that we know what the user want {disfmarker} wants , uh at least the these three points have to be uh very clear .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it's strange that the the manage board {disfmarker} the management board said that the teletext will be uh outdated by the internet . So that that's strange .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Yeah , okay , but uh at the moment uh teletext is {disfmarker} Yeah , th the best thing you can get uh on T_V_ , like getting information .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So uh , when you ask people , what do they use , {vocalsound} they use teletext and not the internet on a remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's ridiculous . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's a ne i it {disfmarker} It's a new technology ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but it's not incorporated right now . Okay , my personal preferences . Um , I think we should aim at the uh audience from sixteen to forty five . {vocalsound} Mm , first of all um it's the biggest share , the biggest audience , sixty five percent . Uh second , I think you will get the most revenue from i from it . Um , yeah , people from sixteen to forty five watch a lot of T_V_ , more than uh people who are el uh elder . Um {vocalsound} second point , {vocalsound} we have to impro improve the most used functions , as I said here , switching channels , teletext and volume controls . Third point um that came out of the uh {disfmarker} of the questionnaire , uh people used to uh get lost off the remote controller , so maybe it's an idea for us uh to design ex kind of placeholder uh on side of the , yeah , of the T_V_",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's a cool idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "where you can put the the remote control in . {vocalsound} Um , that's about it , I think . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When you mentioned uh improving functions , what uh what do you mean by that what what are you think about ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh not not the r not the functions ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh , the funtionability .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but uh it came out that a lot of buttons weren't even used uh on a remote control . So you can have a remote control full of buttons , a hundreds hundreds of buttons , but if you don't use them , yeah it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah okay , so focusing more on the used buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they have to be on it",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "j just to t to get it done if necessary ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but um the most used buttons uh have to be bigger or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Could you use perhaps uh one button for multiple functions , like example pressing it in longer makes it switch to an different function for example .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , perhaps .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just for the minor functions perhaps .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , ma perhaps , just just an idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just to get less buttons on the remote control , to make it easier and quicker to learn .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? 'Kay , that's it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you , Tim . {vocalsound} Janus , can you uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah yeah , I'll go , sure . Right uh , I'll be uh explaining a bit about uh working design about uh the project . Well uh what I did was I dissected uh uh current remote controls and um I viewed how how they w looked , how they worked , uh what kind of components are involved , and how they are connected together . And uh after that I put up a scheme about how uh these things are organised and I'll show it to you in in a in a few seconds . And I'll explain a bit about uh how it works and how we could uh build one and why I think several possibilities uh that we discussed in the earlier meeting falls off . Um right . Uh well what I did was uh I I checked uh remote controls and the uh remote controls of today are all infrared , not like all probably know . And the thing about that is um the remote controls uh have to act as a T_V_ or uh a stereo or something , and those uh have a transmitter that's also focused on infrared , so if we want to uh build uh mm a remote control uh with Bluetooth for instance then uh the T_V_ should have Bluetooth too in order to communicate , so that would mean extra cost for the user and thus uh that's that wouldn't mean a a cheap uh remote control for us . So that's probably why most controls are still infrared . Furthermore they all have uh a a very simple structure , so that would probably uh mean lower costs and uh i that could mean for us a good thing uh 'cause uh well we we should be able to build a relatively cheap uh {gap} a cheap uh remote . Well uh as I mentioned ready , we have some Bluetooth {disfmarker} Well it may be possible , but uh I figured it wouldn't be possible in {disfmarker} within our budget , but that's not for me to decide , but that's maybe something for marketing to look into . F because uh {disfmarker} well my personal opinion is uh is not to do uh Bluetooth {gap} or or radio waves , {vocalsound} although {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What do you think about uh incorporating Bluetooth or a radio uh receiver uh in the place-holder next to the T_V_ , connected to the T_V_ ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , actually I have t",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it's in the wrong product .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , I actually {disfmarker} I figured that would be that would be rather nice , but then you'd still have the uh {disfmarker} the infrared function . So in in theory you'd actually just move the problem ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but uh what I did uh think about was when you mentioned about the uh the cup-holder , is why not uh introduce a speech function like where is the remote . If somebody says , where is the remote , then it goes uh beep uh beep beep beep or something ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I dunno , maybe uh maybe something to look into , I dunno uh what the cost {gap} that something like that would be . But it may be uh may be something to explore . Uh I'll I'll just explain a bit of the components . Uh first you have the energy source . The energy source would be a battery , simple uh battery uh that you can find anywhere . I figured that would be best , 'cause when the battery uh stops functioning uh we could just uh use {disfmarker} you could just go out and buy a new one . So we didn't {disfmarker} and we don't have to do all uh {disfmarker} to be too complicated about that . Uh the energy source is connected to the infrared button , but uh the infrared button uh works only via the chip and the subcomponent to uh the switch {disfmarker} there is a switch uh between these . When the switch is pressed in a w on this this case it switches a button , when a button is prush pushed in , uh a electric current goes through here , and in uh {disfmarker} immediately , a l a bulb lights up uh displaying to the user that something has happened . That's uh that's so the h user won't be um thinking , well uh did the button be pressed , w what happened uh . Or I press button but nothing's happening on the T_V_ , so is is something wrong or something . So that's just to uh to to explain the {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} to to uh make it clearer to the user . Uh w well the signal goes via chip that's translated into uh electric sig uh electronic signals and then it's processed and then it's sent to the infrared bulb where it will be uh uh received on the receiving end . And those uh interpreted by the device , well in this case the television . Uh well my personal preferences here , well we have to keep it simple . Not too many uh gadgets and functions , just like you said uh {disfmarker} well the most users n uh you have a lot of buttons and you u u use {disfmarker} you don't use them , so why why should we invent uh {disfmarker} w spend more time on those . Uh I I think we should stick by {disfmarker} with infrared transmitting and uh no receiving . So uh no input from the television . So I think we shouldn't be uh spending time on um teletext and st things like that , because when you uh want teletext on uh infrared you'd have to build in a receiver too , and so in order to receive the signals from uh what's on T_V_ and such . So I figure that would be uh spending too much money and time and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um , yeah , maybe another problem uh , I think current T_V_s can even send infrared .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but what should we uh s I I I f I agree with you , but should we spend money or {disfmarker} and time on building a receiver into the uh remote control ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Cause that would be {disfmarker} I mean extra components , extra designs , um larger g uh remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "These all uh all stuff that we have to take in account .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I I {disfmarker} my personal opinion is no no no receiver at all . Um , well",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we should uh look into the design and the functionability . Like I said , uh use one button for instance for m multiple functions , or well uh just hide the few buttons o of switching it open or something , the usual uh {gap} stuff . And uh don't overbuild , we shouldn't make a big uh remote control for simple functions , but we we should stick to the basics . So that was my uh my personal opinion . And that was my uh my presentation uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you Janus .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yes ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You do ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I can go ahead .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The last presentation . You have plenty of time ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Last presentation . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Tim and uh Janus don't uh talk to ten minutes ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so uh take your time .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you take your time too long I will uh eventually uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "warn you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , I'm going to give a presentation abut some of the technical functions of these design and uh usability functions .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um what's my opinion about what's most important to combine the design , technical possibilities and the user friendliness in one , so if you um going to design a remote that looks good , that shouldn't weigh over the uh {disfmarker} if it's possible to make , of course , but also the user friendliness , so tha that's that's some of the main points . And another one is um the use um of many functions will will make it more difficult , so use as as little functions as possible or at least don't display them all at once on the same remote . If you have fifty functions you don't want fifty buttons uh t uh to be shown at the same time ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'cause when you visit an internet uh site you don't want fifty links uh to see , but maybe use a hierarch hierarchy uh structure . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh well one of the ideas was maybe uh use touch screen , but s I don't know in how far that is possible ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "since we are sticking to uh um infrared and and the remote cannot receive anything , but uh we might uh consider that . Um well , of course I I hope this is all clear to you . If you {disfmarker} you can use remote like this with all the functions , {gap} many functions , but {disfmarker} Well , your thumb is a little bigger than th it than this . You have to be very careful what you push ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and um if you're looking for teletext you'll be uh searching for half an hour from uh um {disfmarker} yeah well , where is it ? Where the hell {disfmarker} he here I guess and , yeah , when you have to uh use something else . So just keep it simple , make clear buttons , easy to use . For example if you want to use a play and back and stop , that's very important . Um well this was because of our last discussion , if multiple machines are used , create easy switch between the machines , but um it's no longer uh applying . {vocalsound} Well yeah , I prefer to use it only for T_V_ and um n uh not to give too many options and and if possible , uh the buttons should give {vocalsound} a dr direct action , not first select {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh you you just said um uh you wanted to to combine more functions in one , so uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you you want to keep it simple ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and so that's where the difficulties lie .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I think that if you want to do that , then you can't escape the the fact that there will be buttons uh which give s uh more options than one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , this {disfmarker} so that's the thing you have to weigh against each other .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do we want to use a few options and might not be so or original , or uh multi-purpose as we thought ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "or do we want to use um many buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So um weighing those factors .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm {gap} it's maybe an option uh if you use an L_C_D_ {vocalsound} or a touch screen um , that in the middle are the the main keys , like displayed on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The {gap} doesn't {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} . Yeah , this ? No ? Yeah . {vocalsound} Something like that . Okay , just uh in the middle the general functions , like play , uh channel switching ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then uh at the top or at the bottom , some menus like uh settings or {disfmarker} that you can drop down .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but when all the questions I had {disfmarker} Do we want to use uh a menu display on the T_V_ ? Or um does have to f everything uh be in remotes ? 'Cause if you use a memory display on the T_V_ , you can simply push uh a more menu and then select the options you want to have and press okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh so that's my recommendation , if you use many options in one buttle {disfmarker} button , um display the menu on the T_V_",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and don't um use combination of t of two buttons at the same time or pressing buttons three times for five seconds ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "is too complicated for most users .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think so too , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and that's partly because um uh a lot of T_V_s have different menus , and when you have a particular menu uh at your device , uh it could be that don't correspond to the menu what's actually on T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that will be a problem .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you d you have to {gap} keep in mind that uh several T_V_s uh don't even have a menu structure , or they have a very simple menu structure , so you have to keep in mind that not all uh d not {disfmarker} our remote won't be able to work on all televisions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And that would be uh a considerable problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So if we have to stick with current technologies and uh um well yeah , the restrictions of what's uh is on the market today , um you should keep it s at this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Use big clear buttons . Not too many . So maybe we'll loose a few option uh options , but I think i this is more important . Um {vocalsound} especially the important buttons , um if you want to switch channel , change your volume , uh use teletext , it uh it has to work at once and more advanced options may be put it s somewhere away on the remote , behind uh a little uh little thing or a touch screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not embed Yeah , but then with something like a touch screen could {disfmarker} could make more menu up {disfmarker} pop up or something .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And yeah , if you want to uh uh s put {gap} on stand-by or change the channel , that should always be possible to do . Not first change menu options or switch something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um , well yeah , as you already told , give some feedback . If the user is pushing a button he should know if the television or n at least remote is reacting and not just that the batteries may be low .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And um , well , my conclusion is uh is uh less is more , keep it simple . So uh maybe we should just ease down on the functionality to uh to keep it accessible on t because you all know , if there are a lot of function {gap} on the the television , some you you'll never know uh and never use , and therefore it's uh important",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "if you want to change the volume or channel that is always accessible and easy and other functions um that are not so important {disfmarker} um well you {disfmarker} we should consider just not using them or at least putting them somewhere on the remote where they're not in the way for the for the most important functions .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh , I think the idea uh about uh touch screen um is very good . Um , because recently uh I saw news item on T_V_ um about uh new telephones uh for elder people . Um , they have like a touch screen with uh really big pictures on it like uh uh call uh hang-up , um and that's a big ad advantage I think , because one the one hand uh you make the remote control compatible for elder users just by uh scaling up the pictures or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's uh very visual intended . {vocalsound} What was I to say more ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe that's an option . Um keep the primary buttons visible . Uh make a remote that fits easily in the hands",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and for some design issues uh well , put a logo on it and maybe use it uh in some aesthetic uh aesthetic form .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But uh th the important buttons m make them always accessible and pushable and clear",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and maybe use a touch screen , or if that's uh will become too difficult just uh like televi some o older telephones use a l uh maybe it's possible to to flip them open and uh just expand the number of options that are normally visible . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay , but but if you pick the the idea , the left idea",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "then what's gonna be displayed on the touch screen ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The extra functions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The extra functions , you uh you just see a menu from system functions or teletext functions , and you just choose one ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but l like menu functions or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then all all the options will become available",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and you just c s yeah t scroll through them .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Wouldn't it be better to make just one big touch screen , uh one one small uh touch screen uh applet",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh I'll just make um {disfmarker} uh let's say fifteen buttons on it , and uh we have three of those , uh actually just uh menus with sub-menus , with {disfmarker} or sub-items , sub-functions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well um",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "then I'd like to make a proposal .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you make one big touch screen ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "use the same concept as here , keep the buttons always available",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and use the lower part of the touch screen for the rest .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "like like the iPod idea that that we just saw .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You just have a f a few selected buttons and uh a few menus , and with this idea you could actually make uh several {disfmarker} you can also improve uh later on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh uh I think that will be great .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you think it's will be better to have a t kinda total touch screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I wou I would actually go for the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Jirun ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I agree , but I think it's very important that they always um make the same buttons accessible , so use just for special options a part of the touch screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And so um an elder designer picks up th the {disfmarker} of",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "an elder parents or grandparent picks up the remote from the little child and who's all in the systems functions , you'll have to have the possibility to turn off the T_V_ or to switch the channel without um well using all the menu structures to get back to the primary functions .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I had another uh idea about maybe parental control . Um ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "like building in uh some kind of PIN code uh which allows uh parents to switch to all channels , uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but children uh {disfmarker} if children don't don't know the PIN code , they can't switch to uh violent uh channels or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah wh Is that possible to use or no ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That is possible , that {disfmarker} well that actually depends on the television ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Th there's just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , yeah well ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but I think {disfmarker} I figure that would be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "does it have to depend on the television ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ju just a simple log-in , something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "y you s you see the fi uh thing is when you buy a remote , you you set the uh channels , the the channels are different on each te television ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "they aren't set in a preset order ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so uh if you uh lock on a remote , uh let's say channel fifteen , well channel fifteen on this television is different than channel fifteen on the other television ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so that would be uh that would be actually the main concern .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think that he means that um maybe by some option uh {disfmarker} make sure that um remote control and the T_V_ match , and then after that you can um use some s insert some passwords as being apparent that the children cannot use this uh {disfmarker} change the settings of the T_V_ , like colour and then volume",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , th that kind of stuff , but maybe um if you log in first as a parent um , you address the the channels",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and like uh oh , that's channel fifteen , that's uh vi violent channel ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , something like that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "uh m my ki my kids uh {disfmarker} I don't want my kids to watch that ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "then you set the priority to only parents ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well b but make it a separate option in the menu ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that would b",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "for example . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so that it's it's dif dis displayed from uh {disfmarker} displayed here ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay , but but {disfmarker} yeah , that's just",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so uh parents uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that's an a an added feature .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay . But let's not uh go too wide about the {disfmarker} those things , that's that why we're here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {vocalsound} th th those things are nice . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's it's a nice idea , but I think that's we wel {vocalsound} later in the stage . I've one little question about um a total touch screen or uh um a p",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Partial .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , a partial , uh because I think uh elderly people may be uh not used to uh a touch screen , so they want the the the normal functions like teletext , volume changing , um uh to be uh , yeah , kinda traditionals",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh and uh {vocalsound} the the the the other functions , the more difficult functions uh to be uh maybe on the touch screen ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but to keep this as uh normal as possible , to keep it accessible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but if you display it on L_C_D_ screen with r r really big numbers",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can de display it on the on the old style .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that's just as e just as easy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh . I I do {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can display actual buttons on the touch screens .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , that's true , that's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh I do agree ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because well , it's just not the same when you touch a touch screen",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or when you touch a button , but well we have to look at what's our target uh audience .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's different .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "W we are aiming for younger people",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and they they chose {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , age b below forty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah yeah , yeah , that's a good point . Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's that's probably uh a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And th those young people , yeah . Y you saw it in my marketing report , they like the new fancy stuff ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . They like the fancy stuff , yeah . That's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker} A touch screen , like Microsoft al already developed something like that for uh uh multi-media applications .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I th I think we can do that too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm {disfmarker} Yeah . Okay , as you can see uh the minutes from the second meeting , this one , are uh {vocalsound} are done .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Done . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I've uh added the {disfmarker} this uh four things from the management board just to keep in mind .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um each time I uh I had a sort of uh summary on what you told and uh what you personal think . Uh so that can be uh can be read out . Uh a f a few things I uh I noticed uh were um {disfmarker} Moment . Ooh . Uh th the the main points in uh this uh uh in this uh meeting is I think uh how uh it's going to look uh with uh {disfmarker} we must keep it simple , but have the opportunity to uh have more options and have them uh hidden or something , so they don't {disfmarker} uh you don't have a big uh thing full of uh buttons or uh {disfmarker} um and uh the point that uh you uh wanna use one uh controller uh for uh uh hypothetically {vocalsound} each television , so you must uh the the the the functions , know , like the menus or the the parental control must be all uh by the {disfmarker} done by the remote control and not by the television . I think that's the point what uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we discussed .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , some of them . The menus uh are not identical for all th for all T_V_s , so you have to display it on one uh T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well you can use um {disfmarker} when you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh how do you call it , s um synchronized , the um remote and the T_V_ ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but that's not possible .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "then there's always , there are always uh possibilities to change the colour and the brightness and the volume",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm , mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and um well maybe we can look out if there's options that the remote um in its memory can see what kinda T_V_ it is , from {disfmarker} ah , it's a Philips , this and this and that , and then give the options that are capable {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} capable from the t",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but you have uh uh an {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Add th that that's an opportunity {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , but you have an international market range , so you have I think a big range of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well there are universal d um um remotes",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and they all have a functionality for all the T_V_s , uh so this wouldn't be a extra feature to incorporate the men menus of these .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But they {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it's not too complex to do it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well they uh they all have to be programmed to fit your T_V_",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and that that is bit of a tricky job .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I actually use one of those when {disfmarker} They are they are kinda kinda troublesome , but but the thing is whe when you uh start uh building something like this you have to build a receiver into the uh t into the remotes , because uh in order for the remote to process something from the T_V_ , like uh to synchronise and you have to send and receive ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm-hmm . Oh um mo",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and that's well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No no no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "no , you can just say uh the c",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} He he he he me he means just just one other thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just build it in .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , with the current remote controls , the universal ones , um you have to press {disfmarker} yeah , you have to press a code for T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "In codes , y you you get a b a book with codes . You look up , I have a Philips H_ fifty five",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and it says press code four five five",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay , yeah , sure , uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and you press code four five five on the {disfmarker} uh in the remote",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and it displays all your uh menu options .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , yeah yeah , sure , that would be possible , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Now we uh just connect uh the T_V_ type uh to a set of options , in {disfmarker} just just in the memory ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Memory in the in the remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Profiles .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so that if you {disfmarker} yeah , like profile , so that if you uh touch in like uh one four one zero kind of T_V_ uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the memory uh pops up the options .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , that would be possible . Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I th don't think that's uh {disfmarker} that takes a lot of storage space or some just varia variables .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , that wouldn't be uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well um",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , a few variables .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "if you look at the um manuals from universal uh remotes , there are maybe um three four hundreds T_V_s at maximum . If you have all of them , all the old and new T_V_s summed up ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so uh I think uh it is possible {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah it is . It is definitely po",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But , on the other hand on the other hand , uh if you have a remote and buy a new T_V_ that isn't incorporated in the remote {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We have five minutes to go .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well then you have to buy a new one , it's very good for marketing",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "New remote ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe , or an update , software update .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A firmware upgrade or something ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Firmware update , you say .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , firmware upgrade .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but from where ? Ah . Maybe w",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's maybe the cup holder .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No m may no ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "maybe we can incorporate some kind of uh U_S_B_ or a firewire connection , so that you can uh connect it to the P_C_ and download the newest firmware from uh from the internet .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , not everybody has uh has uh a P_C_ at home . Well the most most people have ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , at {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but not not everybody",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "uh you can go back to the shop",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and uh they {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "like a s kind of service centre .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , ser o",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe something like service cen",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and they can download it for you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or you could {disfmarker} well you could s actually look at the place-holder you talked about earlier ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and you could probably uh make a connection to uh an telephone line or a internet connection .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well already digital information is sent t to the the standards , T_V_ uh connections ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you can see what's uh programme is on on the new uh channels , so maybe j they {disfmarker} we can send that information along with standard T_V_ uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well then then it's be uh back to the building a receiving uh {disfmarker} well uh if it's actually worth it to build it in ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Receiving . Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we could actually look at {disfmarker} into it ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} I dunno , it it would be uh bringing more costs {gap} uh with with it",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Difficult . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I I think it's uh most cheap or cheapest to just do the updates uh at the service centre or at the shop .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , uh s I think some {disfmarker} I think it's good idea , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that would be probably best , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like when you when you buy a T_V_ you just ask {disfmarker} well I'll {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's it's it's not a lot of work , just one uh docking station where you put it in ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "press start , bling bling , updated .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that would be best , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} You don't buy a T_V_ every week , new teev so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , let's uh save this in the meanwhile uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No no . Exactly , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um m for which one are we going ? {gap} My mistake .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Let's vote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That one or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , my vote goes out to the right {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Your vote and your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "My vote too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And your vote ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , I was uh doubting about which one to take , but uh you've convinced me that uh if you di display buttons about the same as they would look on a normal um remote all elderly people will know what to do .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And also like a clapping uh li like device that uh pops open .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Opens up is too difficult",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Flips open .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh too difficult , um maybe uh it's easier to break it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "N yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Break it , I don't get {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , th th th that i uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's very sensitive .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh so {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like my telephone , it's uh it's sensitive too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay well uh it's almost at the end . So we have now a lunch break , finally ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah . {vocalsound} Uh after the lunch break uh it's back to uh individual work , once again uh thirty minutes . Uh I will put my minutes {disfmarker} uh I have updated them so uh s they're updated in the shared folder too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thirty minutes ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thirty minutes , the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How minutes ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Failure . Uh {vocalsound} uh the specifi uh specific instructions for the next uh meeting you will {disfmarker} all will receive uh at the uh the the email . I don't think I can uh say much about it , so uh uh wait for your email and uh hopefully you get it done uh in the in the thirty minutes , and I w will see you after the lunch break and the thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One question ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh how late do we have to get back {disfmarker} be back here ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh well uh thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A quarter to one maybe ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thirty minutes lunch break ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thirty minutes lunch break , yeah . Oh . Forty five ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I thought forty five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh then would it be uh one o'clock .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or we we ask our personal coach . Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . Thank you , uh that was a very uh good session I think ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we uh we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , is it possible to store this on the share documents or what {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , me too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh ye well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Save as .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , because uh all uh things are uh stored in smart board dot uh X_D_K_",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , v",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and that's in {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But but you can open a {disfmarker} from your pr from your laptop .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , save it as an image on the res",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe . Save as .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Export . Maybe not export function .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . Export .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I can I can uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Export H_T_M_L_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , and use an image if possible .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh , image ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "J_ PEG .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} G_ {disfmarker} yeah , J_ PEG .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "J_ PEG . Yeah , it's better",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Paper size A_ four . Uh screen size . In this directory .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "N oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , it's not connected to the",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You all uh have the the questionnaire again about uh the after work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "to our P_C_s .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ? Yeah , it is connected .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's connected ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Deskt Huh . No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To room . I'll just uh saved in my documents .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {vocalsound} in my own uh {disfmarker} in my own messenger .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Project documents , yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It gives the na Oh . Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , nice .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The questionnaire , fill in {disfmarker} uh we fill out d after lunch or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh well , it's it's simply filling {disfmarker} oh no , it's uh it's also filling out {disfmarker} no , I'd do it after lunch I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Aye , cheers .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I'm hungry , so do it after lunch .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Thank you all .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You're welcome .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We can leave the P_C_ on I think , yeah and return to the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well I bring it to my uh personal room .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , bring to {disfmarker} I gotta bring it home .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "To my exave executive {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "My executive uh big room with the with the panting . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} A big office .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Aye . Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
}
] |
TS3007c | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"422"
]
],
"topic": "Presentations on components, trend watching, and interface contents"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"423",
"660"
]
],
"topic": "Decision discussion about parental control, the games, and voice recognition"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"661",
"791"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about master class sharing"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This meeting was about conceptual design. Firstly, groupmates had three presentations on components, trend watching, and interface contents. Their target age group was below forty, so they suggested personal preferences on the remote, like the material, the battery, the speech recognition technology, etc. Then, they discussed the trendy features and decided to include parental control as well as the gaming features in the remote control. Finally, Project Manager shared some master class knowledge with group mates and suggested applying a marketing campaign, large provider marketing approach, and real reaction product idea.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Firstly, Industrial Designer presented components based on the target age group's preference for stylish and material, including energy, chip, and LCD. Next, Marketing presented market trends and suggested the group should focus on the main audience and use fresh colours, rubber materials, speech function, and the log-in functionality with the slogan. Then, User Interface presented on interface contents and suggested a big touch screen, a program menu with volume plus and minus.",
"query": "Summarize the presentations on components, trend watching, and interface contents.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"422"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing suggested the second personal preference from the market trend was to consider technology innovation, including the speech function recognition and the link with mobile phones. The reasons were that the market was screaming for new technologies and users could use remote to do something else, like gaming, when parents were watching some boring program.",
"query": "What's the advantage of technology innovation when Marketing presenting the trend-watching?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"354",
"384"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer asked about whether group mates choose battery or kinetic. User Interface suggested that they could use the kinetic as a back-up. Marketing supplemented that it could be a combination. So, Industrial Designer concluded that they could use the battery and charge it up with kinetic. Group mates agreed on it.",
"query": "What's the conclusion of the discussion about battery versus kinetic when presenting on components?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"182",
"213"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Group mates agreed that they could incorporate the parental control as well as the gaming features into the remote control. However, they would discard the idea of voice recognition because it would be too much for the remote feature.",
"query": "Summarize the decision discussion about parental control, the games, and voice recognition.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"423",
"660"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When the group suggested having the implementation of parents' log-on screen in the remote, Industrial Designer thought it would be not worth investing much time and effort to program. However, Project manager disagreed with this because there would be a huge market for parental control when they heard from magazines that many parents thought their children were influenced by televisions. Also, Project Manager mentioned that their target group was below forty, and lots of families had children at a young age.",
"query": "Why did Project Manager disagree with Industrial Designer when discussing parental control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"428",
"478"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing suggested building an expert view and a simple view for handy consideration. User Interface suggested that in the menu structure, they could push system properties so that the entire list would pop up for programming. Industrial Designer supplemented that they could build in a back-forward button if someone wanted to watch fewer channels.",
"query": "What did group mates discuss the expert view when discussing the system properties?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"637",
"659"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Hello again .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hi . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hey , Project Manager .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , Project Manager , I have something to tell you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I have a little problems with my laptop .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh s s s so I had a little less time to complete .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , a little problem , uh {vocalsound} big problem . I just thought {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What was it , problem ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , it didn't work anymore . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The laptop ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The entire Windows uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It hang {disfmarker} hung .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It it hung . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ha-ha . Oh . Project Manager .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes . {vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You're our Project Manager .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Your project manager . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Welcome to the conceptual design meeting",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "for Real Reaction .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , hello again . Uh it's uh the same as the last time . Uh uh , also this time there will be uh three presentations .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And we um must uh reach a decision on uh the remote control concepts . Um uh , and at the end , uh I uh , when I finish it off I have some uh input from uh a master class I uh {vocalsound} visited . {vocalsound} {gap} information . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "During lunch , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Master .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "He's the master , yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The the the the the concepts on uh {disfmarker} we uh {disfmarker} where we uh must reach a decision on . Um uh , our {disfmarker} from uh are of two sorts .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Master of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Components concepts and user interface concepts . Uh , the first one is uh really about the the the the the total package uh with uh {disfmarker} Well , we have decided to do a {disfmarker} do the uh {disfmarker} with a touch-screen that must be a case around it so uh it won't be uh uh as breakable . Uh how how about the energy ? Can you uh can you reload it or uh just have batteries which you must exchange ? Uh , the user interface concept . Uh , with the type and uh the the supplements . So uh where to put what button . {vocalsound} And uh uh I would say uh {disfmarker} Jans , can you begin ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "At the end , uh {disfmarker} I will take notes uh and at the end of the minutes uh will uh be at the shared folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh , let me see . I think it's this one . Ha .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Wow .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Right . Uh , well , I'll be talking about the components .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , what I did was I reviewed previously used items uh by uh two two uh different uh age groups .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh below forty five and above . And uh I just uh watch what the differences are and I checked uh , well , what what d do we want , and {gap} how can we uh d aim a at uh the target group . Well uh what I found was that a senior um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} senior citizens uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I'm sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ye Ah , it's {vocalsound} it's okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Go on . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} They , well , they like more the {disfmarker} they like the traditional materials , like wood and and such more .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Wood and chrome .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh uh they like uh straightforward shapes . Um , uh they they they they like luxurious uh styles , where whereas the young and dynamic , they like a more uh soft materials . Think of the Teletubbies , for instance .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh uh , soft and fluffy and colourful and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well uh , shapes are curved and round .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Y y you get {vocalsound} the picture . And uh they like sports and gaming , and that gives them uh the vitality . Uh , so w well uh , firs",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "One one little question .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um about the the material .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh a soft material for a remote control ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I'll I'll get to that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You you'll see . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , well f first off , let's start start with the energy . W I uh I had a choice between uh a few different uh sources .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But uh the two basic sources that I found were the best possible were the battery uh versus kinetic . Uh kinetic , that's when you move something , then uh it gets energy . I figured , well that's ki kinda high-tech , when when you have a remote control that well , when you pick it up , it has power . That would be actually very nice , uh I figured .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , we could also use a battery , that's a bit {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but when the power gets low , you have to shake it or something ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah yeah , you c just you have to shake it around a little bit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , and uh uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then then it d then it has some more uh energy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , y you could just go for a battery . Or you can go for both ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , have you considered the option of using a solar panel ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I actually did . But uh the thing is about solar panel is you have to have l uh light . Well , sunlight preferably .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "W {gap} nah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , and you you could you could use normal light , but uh you wouldn't get the same amount of energy that you would from a battery or something .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh for uh ultimate b uh {vocalsound} n uh use of uh solar panels , you could actually use uh {disfmarker} you could use uh solar panels , but uh you ha you'd have to implement them into uh the remote control , leaving you uh a bit less space for the interface .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah . It's too less space .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So uh {disfmarker} so i i it it wo what's actually {disfmarker} I I c just in f I've figured it out that well , uh seeing that you'll always be uh within the l uh distance of T_V_ , and the {disfmarker} from T_V_ there comes a a a whole bunch of light . So it would actually power itself uh from a T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But , well you just take up all the space , and you wouldn't uh have the full amount of power actually used .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you prefer kinetic ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} I I prefer kinetic because it's uh {disfmarker} well , the costs aren't that much higher , and um , ju just a bit more high-tech than than a normal battery .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah , but you don't move a a remote control too much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean , if {disfmarker} No , but uh d Well , you pick it up and you press buttons and y well , you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And that's enough to to keep the energy level uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well uh actually it is .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it it {disfmarker} if it isn't , you just shake it a bit and and add add with power up again .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But , what l what Jarek said , you could you could use a battery that you'd just keep it on the recharging whenever it moves . And for rest , you'd just add juice on the battery .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And when the battery doesn't work , I usually shake it too . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Thank you , Tim . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Exactly . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Like slamming on it . {vocalsound} It's exactly the same . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And so that {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh well ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "f furthermore , you you {disfmarker} we {gap} {disfmarker} uh checked uh the cases .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We have uh different options uh concerning the cases . You ha I {disfmarker} you sim uh you simply add a basic uh standard uh model uh {disfmarker} it was kind of square and uh I figured that's a bit boring . So you you {disfmarker} we could go for uh the single curved or the double curved . Um , single curve , it's just a {disfmarker} well , uh , you know , it's just uh a nice curve . Or but but you could go in a in an double curves . And that's {gap} like several different dimensions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That gives you an whole new uh effec",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Dynamic dynamic look ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that gives you a younger and uh more high-tech look , I f I figured . But , that uh we'll discuss later .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But , are you going to draw it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Th th yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You want me to draw in three-D_ ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I c I can't imagine .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh , yeah , I ca I ca I could I could show you . I could show you .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I can't imagine how how how it looks like .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well uh let's say y uh you uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's say that's your standard uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's a bit your d standard design . But you could actually go like uh something like this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then uh in three-D_ effect you could go {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So y you you just {disfmarker} Yeah , this is a {disfmarker} this {vocalsound} bit uh difficulty in {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I didn't take a major in art . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But but you could have uh uh a whole new uh the back back the the the depth , you could you could uh just play around a bit with .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You you don't have to use standard uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A little artistic .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah you could {disfmarker} y It leaves more space for creativity .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh that might be an idea ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {vocalsound} just a {disfmarker} Well , furthermore , uh well , uh plastic versus rubber ? You {disfmarker} We could choose uh what uh what's better , plastic um or rubber . I I ch prefer rubber because it feels uh {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's soft .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's soft and it's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like soft .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's the material the younger people want uh , ain't it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , yeah I mean uh plastic uh is {disfmarker} Plastic also has that cheap feeling to it , {vocalsound} like plastic uh {disfmarker} Your your {disfmarker} I usually associate plastic with uh something that's cheap . Uh that's maybe just me , but {disfmarker} Uh , we could uh uh , oh , talk about it later . Uh furthermore , buttons . Uh traditional uh or a touch screen . Well , we discussed it in a previous meeting , so I figured I'll just leave it at the L_C_D_ . And uh chip set , well uh if we are going to use traditional buttons , we could go uh with a simple chip set . But uh if we decide to go on a n uh um L_C_D_ screen , we would use an uh {disfmarker} we have to use an a advanced chip set . And that would bring uh the necessary costs with with it . So that's something we th have to keep in mind . If it isn't uh manageable uh budget-wise , we'd have to go over to uh to sim to simple buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think uh we're going to sell tell {disfmarker} ten millions of them . So uh I bet a big company in uh Korea or Taiwan , like uh Samsung , can give us uh a big discount on the chips , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , probably .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "U usually , chips are uh aren't more expensive than one dollar .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , probably , but {disfmarker} But uh yeah , that's that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That that shouldn't be a real issue , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That shouldn't shouldn't be uh that big a issue . I'll I'll I'll just add , uh uh I put a big summary here , so we could discuss it a bit . Uh {gap} what i what are your ideas {gap} concerning battery versus kinetic ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , I think you should use kinetic as a back-up .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you you you should {disfmarker} we should {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , a combination .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A combination , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A combination . Uh , {gap} you use the battery and w charge it up with kinetic . When you pick it up , it charges up .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Like an uh aku uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Acu uh , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , I know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Just like the watch from Seiko .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , {gap} . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Psycho-kinetic . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I con Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What uh what do you think ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I I uh I would prefer uh both uh too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You agree ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Combine them .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Both ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Combine them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh , well that would bring the m m some more costs , but I mean the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Who cares , right .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's the Project Manager's problem . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Buy a fifty cents battery and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Of course . Fifty cent . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {vocalsound} well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Fifty cent uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh , why doesn't {disfmarker} And then we have single-curved versus double-curved .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well maybe I have something in my presentation to uh to cope with that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That {disfmarker} {gap} Okay . No , we'll we'll just wait and uh {disfmarker} Uh , plastic versus rubber . Any ideas ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Rubber .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Rubber . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , rubber ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um , isn't possible to make combination with kind of rubber is {gap} or bendable remotes where you've got a {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or do you think it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I figured it will be m rather than hard {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Rubber casing , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nah , rubber c uh this is a casing , yeah . Rubber casing ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Rather hard .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because well if you use an uh d a touch-screen , uh it's just a casing uh around it . So um , you could go for plastic , but I figured {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , well d Maybe I can ask it right now the question that I have .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I I I would choose rubber .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , is it possible uh of {disfmarker} is it necessary to make a touch-screen square ? It isn't , I think , yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , m I don't know . No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think that touch-screens are generally square .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But it's the case you put around it that makes the shape .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We're {disfmarker} We put fashion in electronics ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That isn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so maybe we can uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ? Yeah okay , but if you have a square uh L_C_D_ screen , and you put a case around it that has uh like bulbs or that that covers part of the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that would cover it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That that would solve the problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , yeah . Okay , I I get it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker} it's custom customisable and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So mm {disfmarker} Uh uh so uh so what are the opinions ? Uh rubber or plastic ? I I I prefer rubber .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , me too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Me too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , you too ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's good .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You sure ? You {gap} you you seemed to hesitate a bit .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , as long a as long as it's it's uh it's firm , and you don't uh {disfmarker} it's not bendable or something ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I th I think that goes too far .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it it shouldn't it shouldn't flop over when you hold it in your hand uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} No , that that that that's gonna {disfmarker} The the chip set will hold it firm in place ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh and and uh and a L_C_D_ screen also {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It might even bounce back when you drop it on the floor .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah it {vocalsound} m might it might .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh , tra uh traditional versus L_C_D_ , well I figured we we all set on that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh , then also the simple versus advanced . Well I figure if we go for L_ L_C_D_ , we we should have the advanced .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that shouldn't be a problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well that's my uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , you're welcome .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Can I uh do my thing ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Do your thing , Tim .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do your thing . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Bring it on . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Expert map .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay uh {disfmarker} Last week",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I went to uh Paris and Milan for some trend-watching .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For marketing . Our research and development department and I went to Paris and Milan . In Paris and Milan , we uh asked different people , uh differing in age and in income , uh the amount of money to spend , um {vocalsound} what they like in design uh and material nowadays . Findings . Our main audience , uh so that's people below forty , uh prefer the following . At first , the colours of fruit .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Very basic colours , like Janus explained . Um , fresh colours , uh green , red , uh strawberry red , uh yellow , banana yellow .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um , considering material , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah . They like spongy material ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Spongeball .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "like {disfmarker} yeah a sponge-ball .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like a s soft material .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Janus m uh mentioned it also . I think he did some uh some findings himself .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , the Teletubbies sh {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You wer you weren't in Paris ? {vocalsound} Okay . Like this . Like big uh g flashy colours . Fresh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Flashy . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's nice , I think . Okay , our secondary audience , uh people above forty a forty years in age , they like the dark traditional colours . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , uh materials like wood that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but wood is not a not a material you {disfmarker} which you build a a remote control of .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , you could . You you could .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No n j just j just a w",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {vocalsound} never seen one . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It'll float .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , okay , but just just a wooden uh look .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Case . Oh , a wooden look , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Like uh you have those fake uh fake panels on the floor .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Tables . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} that isn't wood anyway , but {disfmarker} Okay ? {vocalsound} But , that's our secondary audience .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , uh we decided to take mm yeah the people below forty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , that {disfmarker} this doesn't apply . 'Kay , the third . Uh , there're some overall thoughts about new remote controls . They have to look fancy . Um , they should be technological in innovative . That means uh there have to be fancy things in . Uh , and easy to use . But that's common . My personal preferences . We have to aim at a mu at the {gap} main audience . And uh , therefore use fresh colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Would you prefer uh uh {gap} that you can choose the colour of your uh remote control or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I'll I'll come to that in a second point .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Here , think about removable covers , as seen in mobile telephon telephone market . To customise your own remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Like the Nokia uh the removable covers , uh just put a red on it and go to the shop and buy a green one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , a third , material being used uh could well be stuff like rubber . Um , two advantages . Uh , it fits within the current market trends . And uh it adds safety to your remote uh when you drop it . So {disfmarker} Uh to come back to your question , I think uh and the people in Milan and Paris also think that uh the rubber should be pretty hard . Like uh seen on regular mobile phones . Actually , they have a lot in common . The phones and the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I actually saw a phone that you could use as a remote , so {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe you could use your remote as a phone .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Hey . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hey .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There are numbers on it , so uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That might be a next step . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , exactly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , in my second sheet of personal preferences , uh we have to reconsider the speech function {vocalsound} uh recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it's very innovative . Innovative .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that you say um S_P_S_S_ , and it goes to uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , like something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You you can see that the market is just screaming for new technologies , like speak {disfmarker} uh speech recognition and stuff . But , we have to keep the cost in uh in mind , but it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Twelve fifty uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it it can be uh very expensive .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , second .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , building games like Snake or Tetris {vocalsound} to amuse the younger users .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , also the link with uh mobile phones . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but you don't use that {disfmarker} {vocalsound} th games when you watching television , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , but {disfmarker} No , okay . But you don't use games when you're d when you're making a telephone call . It's just the same .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When your parents are watching some boring program , you can take the remote and do something else .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "When you're at college .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You take your remote control with you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Take it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You take your uh remote with you to school . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} No . You al {vocalsound} you also take {vocalsound} uh t {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you take your IPac and go uh play games . Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Well , I do that , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay , and um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And third , I stick with it , {vocalsound} the log-in functionality uh with the slogan , take parental control to a new dimension . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ooh . S",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Very nice . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh great {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In {disfmarker} Okay . Um the interface contents . Well that's a just simple PowerPoint mock-up I want to m make it more as dynamic for you so I'll draw there . But , the main concept is um take one big touch screen . Um , always display the primary buttons clear and visible . Maybe even li like this with uh {vocalsound} u uses of a lot of space . And uh make the menu structure changeable . So if you press um system , that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well m multiple system options can , maybe five or ten or or one , can fit in . Or maybe even a step further when you want to um t um have some other options that are not programmable with one horizontal button . And um other buttons can may be displayed here if that's necessary . And um well , how do {disfmarker} uh do we want to look at uh uh f um {disfmarker} Yeah {vocalsound} Does a remote look {disfmarker} Well , it's {disfmarker} you've gotta hold it in one hand . So um the middle like all remotes have to be in a little bit small , so you can put it in inside your hands . And some remotes you can use with your thumb . But I think that's too difficult for this one . So you can make it s a little broader . Yeah . And here ? And maybe use your thumb on the on the main buttons . And use your other hands on the menu structure . So here are gonna be the program buttons . One , two {vocalsound} , three , four , et cetera . And the the volume control and program control maybe . And , down here , um , I added , this could be one uh big L_C_D_ . Um , the menu structure . So you can use it in uh in this way . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} One thing you've gotta keep in mind , keep the remote clear of too much functions at the same time .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , {vocalsound} know that if you are changing the menu structure here , um {disfmarker} And well , I still believe you should keep displaying the buttons . But if you're programming the colour of the T_V_ , do not display twenty other options that are possible . Just keep it as simple as uh as possible . And do not use too many levels . Do not have to select a screen first and then brightness and then colour and un-plus , and um push plus twenty times .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But just the um uh just in one button if possible . And um , well , you kn you all know the T_V_ levels . Um , channel one , two . And when you get to n to uh to ten , ye and want to go back , uh well you have a problem . Just m most most modern T_V_s , you {gap} {disfmarker} you press one zero , and it goes to ten . And else , to one and through after that . So the s a button less . And um , things like teletext , put them in the menu . Things like um um {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh , what do you think about a back-and-forth come-up uh button ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah w Yeah , I I find I must trying to uh tell it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} L like in uh internet explorer . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is uh volume plus and minus ? And this is program uh plus and minus . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay , but does it {disfmarker} that is for uh going from four to five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But if you go from two to eight , and you want {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or if you're watching Studio Sports on uh on seventeen , and your wife is watching some soap on two {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and on two . That you can switch switch easy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well yes , I think that's a good idea . But um , well m my preference would to be put it in the menu structure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah it is . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And if you're using that button a lot of times , well of course the menu will still be displayed on the screen . You just don't have to play games uh in-between . But if you're really switching between two channels , you won't have time uh to d use the other options .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , yeah already already told that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's my conclusion .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} I think we can discuss a little about the the three uh kind of revolutionary things uh Tim uh came with . The parental control , the games , and the voice recognition .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There's n not uh too much decision on uh that one so uh {disfmarker} I think that parental control is a good function to uh to put in the remote . I don't know how you think about it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , I agree , just put it in the menu structure somewhere .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , yeah um system properties , um parental control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {disfmarker} What I see uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} How I see it is you put it on the the remote and then you have like a Windows log-on screen with parents , children .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , w well , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And w when you want to use the parents uh option , you have to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It it has to be fast . You don't want to to go down and watch the news at eight o'clock and turn it on and wait twenty seconds for for uh the log-on screen and then remember your code and all kinds of settings .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , ok",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No but I think most people uh find it uh much more important that their children don't watch uh sex or violence uh on the television , and uh wait uh ten or fifteen seconds longer , so they can uh finally watch it uh because of that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Why {disfmarker} Mm-hmm . You c may use {disfmarker} like when there's uh X_P_ , uh a simple log-on , d you just push uh one or two or three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Pu push parents .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And if you push parents , then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That {disfmarker} then then then you have to uh go to three-digit uh log-in .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . To log in . Yeah . And if you puts a ye",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like two one three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And it's in .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And if you w you push p children , uh you don't have to uh log in , but you can only watch uh children's channels or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It automatically goes {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know if it's worth uh the time and effort we are going to spend on it . Because well it's a simple function , but it's gonna take a lot of resources and a lot of time um to programming it . Because you'll have to start working with the profiles and such . And I'm not sure if it's actually worth uh investing that much time and effort into it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I think that's a b there's a big market for it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know what {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because uh you {disfmarker} Yeah , you read many times in magazines same kind of stuff , and you heard on the news that uh that he Yeah , they believe that children uh are influenced by the television ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah . V violent T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker} Well , we're we're aiming uh to uh below uh forty uh years . But there are a lot of uh people will below forty who have uh children in young age uh who who want um to uh not watch uh violent or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well , maybe um some idea on that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just make through a remote as it is , but make an option to insert profiles ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'cause if my grandad would buy this remote , he wouldn't want to bother with all all the all the {gap} uh things to do .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just make it an option in menu , ins install powerful profiles or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's a that's a better idea ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , w It just has to be w when it's deliver out of the store , it has to be just simple and plain .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But if you want to install it personally uh {disfmarker} If I got kids , and I could choose between uh two remote controls . One uh w with parent control and one without , and I would would buy the one with .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , with and one without . Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , b well , still some question I have about how to incorporate those ones .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I th Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You're thinking about some channels they uh cannot see , but well , {vocalsound} I I {vocalsound} when I think , oh yeah , for the f for all the standard channels , and only for maybe after ten o'clock uh in the evening violent films and movies uh will come",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh maybe maybe some some timing uh will be uh needed {vocalsound} instead of uh of channels ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because if you're watching uh , I don't know , you're in the {disfmarker} at day uh , cartoons will come up m on maybe Friday night . {vocalsound} I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe it can work with show view . Uh , you you can control your video recorder with show view .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , when you tick in a number , it will uh start and end uh recording . But maybe there's some option that uh that t uh the kind of show view numbers are violent , and that they are blocked out .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the disadvantage vantage is that someone will has to send all the show-view numbers of the programs that they {gap} remotes and edit it all ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's true . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "will have to decide uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but yeah but that isn't possible .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That isn't possible .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But , well , if you want to {disfmarker} I i i if we in incorporate uh the parental control , uh let's say we do , and and well whatever , cho uh child just goes up to the T_V_ and presses up {vocalsound} for instance .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well uh , nob nobody's stopping the child from uh well checking uh the channel .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , yeah you could say if parental control is only {disfmarker} it it'll go from fourteen to sixteen with the page-up then , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But that {disfmarker} Well , I'm not sure because um for that to happen , you d you will have to receive a signal from the uh remote control , so it would , yeah , have to be constant uh constant signalling .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What m what may be better is to incorporate an uh a separate device that uh that you can program with the remote control . And that uh provides parental control , for instance . And that's just an optional uh device . So there's n that's {disfmarker} there's {gap} {disfmarker} uh besides uh the remote control , you'll have a separate uh {disfmarker} {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I wouldn't put it in an optional device . That that then then then it becomes too much , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If we do it , we we must do it in a kind of ways that like a profile , a parent profile , and a family profile , and otherwise .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , on a separate menu uh option .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And and you know w uh when you install another device , uh children can still go up to the T_V_ , p pop open uh the thing and and and g",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true . That's true ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "go to a channel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but uh at same instant , same happens when uh you have remote control . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah of course . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , only difference is uh {vocalsound} the uh the people buying the remote control will now get the f added feature of parental control ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and those people wouldn't uh necessary want it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Ah it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , you {disfmarker} you'd be",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , okay . But it's just an an added feature feature .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And what do you uh guys think of the games in the voice recognition ? I personally think that that becomes too much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well yeah , I {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's more like it gets you to the functionality , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A mail too from management that it's very popular to use voice recon recognition .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I don't think when you're watching T_V_ uh , hearing loud noises from the T_V_ , someone screaming {vocalsound} one , and you f the channel switches , uh {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , like f voice recognition is too much , I think . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And games ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} games . It doesn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I can see games happening . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "W you can put it on chip anyway , so uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That would {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} As long as it's {disfmarker} isn't a primary feature of the remote ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That that doesn't c that doesn't co",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that that doesn't cost a lot of extra resources , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So that will uh {disfmarker} that that that must be in it , you think ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that will be nice .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So the games uh are in it . The voice recognition are not . And the parental control are",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Optional in",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "optional ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's it's in it . But too ma I I think so , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But how we do it ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think also it's a good idea , buts very difficult to incorporate . So we should make it too complex .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is t some menu uh function , you choose parental control , and maybe four files will emerge from menu where put it on .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh how how it's gonna work uh uh will f be a problem .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Uh , but uh will there uh uh {disfmarker} Like the first idea uh from uh {disfmarker} You can buy it without and uh with parental contr control ? Or are we going to put it in and uh just uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Well {disfmarker} Ye I I think best would be uh to put it in and {vocalsound} make it an menu option .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "To put {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can put on {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , to put it in always .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And you can just uh s when you buy it , you can select um personal preference , parental control on , and the password or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I don't know . I I figure if you had two different remotes , you could bo choose one with uh well uh uh a receiver in it . So you could actually easily uh build in uh parental control . But it would would be uh more expensive . So , a and that that way uh you could make cheap model and a expensive model . Could ma make the uh {gap} simple model and the deluxe model , uh for instance .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , it's a p Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but T_V_s aren't capable of sending .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes they are . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? I thought they were just",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you yo",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you you have some T_V_s {gap} any {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "a able to receive . Yeah , some . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but most often not .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That is true , that is true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , maybe you just have to restrict it to what programs , where the parent says , you cannot watch channel seven , nine , and ten , and you cannot watch all channels after ten o'clock .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And there's just some little uh clock in the remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah , you could you could easily you could easily you could easily {gap} to the mote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , j just some rules .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But you still have the problem about uh the television itself .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , no , it's very simple . There uh th I h I've seen some of {gap} remotes who have a clock in it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , the remote does doesn't transmit when it's after twelve clock .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . But , on the T_V_",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "at least my T_V_ , is a is a compartment which you can press .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And there are buttons uh behind it which you can use , if you d if you don't if you don't have a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well , that's {disfmarker} To put it very blunt , that's not our problem . Just have um the parents buy uh some glue and uh {disfmarker} It's not not a part of the remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that is true . Yeah , that is true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You have to f Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you could you could you could go like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , or make it ourselves very diffic",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "uh that that would actually make uh things a lot more easy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You could just blame it on television and uh make it their problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I figured {disfmarker} I figure we could do that . Yeah , yeah , sure . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I'm not sure what marketing thinks about it , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or j Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I have to uh {vocalsound} consult my legal advisor about it . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . So uh I think we have decided on the things that {disfmarker} Uh from Janus , the energy , the combination between battery and kinetic .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The case will be double-curved and uh rubber , in a fr flashy fruity colour uh that {disfmarker} with cover is removable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The buttons will be uh touch-screen . Uh but there may not be too many buttons . And in the the menu structure , uh there must not to be uh {disfmarker} Five minutes to go . Uh , too uh too many levels . And uh it must be easy to use . The parental control will be incorporated , but it must be not too complex . And the games {gap} are in it . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we have uh we have decided uh , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Consensus .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , little more .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Oh . I I have one thing left .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe for uh Jerome .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? I'm listening .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um , the views . Maybe it's uh handy to build in an expert view and a simple view .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like a like a moat or s or something . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "User profile .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Like at {disfmarker} In the experts view , you have a lot of more buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but you have that in the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What I was thinking about is just a menu structure , when you don't use it is simple .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You use the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And when you push uh system properties , uh entire list pops up with e ev all kind of f stuff you can program .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's already incorporated a little in that concept .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah , okay . Fairly enough . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah , you you could actually build in a function that you can program it yourself , for the more advanced users .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , wh which buttons you like or not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , which buttons do you want to in it . Because you can you can like build in a back-forward button , and uh some po somebody would just want to watch two channels .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . Just leave the other numbers away .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you could you could m have people want uh want that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We take it to the other meeting , okay ? I have a little w uh little chat to do",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Go on .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah , yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and uh then we uh finish .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} A little chat . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I went to uh a master class and uh uh two things uh are uh are uh {disfmarker} can come in handy uh for us .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "First thing uh is uh we talked about knowledge uh management . Knowledge engineering and uh uh the fact that uh that uh that the idea of knowledge , uh sharing and learning knowledge from other companies is {gap} uh like that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's it's uh very hot at the moment ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so it's it's mostly for the management expert to to look what other uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Marketing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "marketing {disfmarker} or did I said management ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Management .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound} Just talking about myself .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , that's my function , to {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} W {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Go on . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What other companies uh had to uh also with the the the the marketing campaign when they put on a newer remote , just some uh {disfmarker} Yeah . {vocalsound} Import export .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And uh another one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Som some bench-marker .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , they're a ha they're at {disfmarker} Yeah , benchmarking , that's the word I saw .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I uh couldn't uh {disfmarker} Okay , uh another uh thing is uh there were there there was a survey , and um uh it came out that um people like to buy things from a single large provider , instead of those who uh are partnering uh with us . So , we must uh we must bring it as if uh Real Reaction is uh is big company , uh a trustful company , and uh it has m",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How {disfmarker} I know a marketing name for our product .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "R_ th R_ to the third power .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "R_ three . Real Reaction remote . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I had a I had another idea to put uh uh the whole the whole idea of uh Real Reaction and uh uh uh a single brand and uh uh that kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When you uh put on remote , you see a kind of a {disfmarker} just like when you telephone , you see a little uh animation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , logo . Yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Bling .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Real Reaction remote . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh with the with the with the motto , we put fashion in electronics . And then you go uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , but it has to be like a split second , because {vocalsound} you have to put in a code also and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well , you can show somebody a logo for point five seconds , they'll still remember it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah . But w th the idea from this uh thing is that we must present it as a {disfmarker} as we are a a single large provider who will stand on our own .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it it l linger on every time you see it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , if you if you have the l L_C_D_ screen , you can {gap} you can uh have a small logo i uh at the bottom .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it could just stay there .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That spins around like all the time .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm yep , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Very annoying . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that spins around or something .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Also also . But we we are uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It it's just like a uh globe in Internet Explorer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah y yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , something like that . A small icon .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but uh think about that kind of things .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I {disfmarker} It's ok For f",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's what they said in the master class . {vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , for the next meeting , right ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "N {vocalsound} Uh , next meeting starts in thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Who uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So uh maybe you can go to Paris and Milan uh {vocalsound} once again .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Who who gave you the master class ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The master class ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ronald Betenberg ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Franz Mehler's . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , thanks . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh , very special , uh next uh session .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh idea that you uh {disfmarker} the the industrial uh development uh centre {vocalsound} and uh user interface uh will work together on a prototype .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh will drawing it on the SMARTboard . So that's a kinda new uh thing . And um , the marketing expert will uh will uh ke he will be keeping busy with the product uh evaluation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But the most uh specific instructions will be sent to you by email .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we're going to work together right now ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Stay here and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , the {disfmarker} well , uh dids this what I uh what I heard . I {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In the master class . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Not in the master class .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So you uh just wait for the specific instructions and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} P_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I think it was a very uh very good uh session , uh gentlemen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah , no new email .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Definitely .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Me too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I will thank you all .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well thank you too . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . Thank you very much .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thank you too , lord .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Give me a good evaluation . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} 'Kay guys , lot of success .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You wish .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} See you .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "M Aye ? Cheers .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Cheers . See you in a half hour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hey .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But keep an eye on your uh laptops for a real uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh I'm not sure if we uh we {disfmarker} Because I saw something about individual actions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but th there's there's still the my uh instructions that you will work together .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Here ? Or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's not my problem .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . If you got a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Bye-bye . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound} So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Stupid manager .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The project manager always works alone . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right . Uh {disfmarker} {gap} Do you have new email ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . Don't get what's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
}
] |
TS3007d | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"46",
"169"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation on the prototype of the product"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"172",
"473"
]
],
"topic": "Evaluation on the prototype using the past user requirements and trends analysis"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"474",
"749"
]
],
"topic": "Evaluation of the whole product using the SMARTboard"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The group mainly talked about the interface design and price setting of the product. Firstly, the user interface designer gave a presentation on the prototype of the product. They provided the prototypes with a lot of details on the appearances and those details were then further discussed by the group.After that, the marketing expert used a seven-point scale to evaluate the prototype according to the past user requirements and trends analysis. They Cleared some misconceptions and reached a consensus on the targeting group and how they could adapt the product better to suit their needs. Then they discussed the price setting of the product and how many functions needed to be retained or removed. As they were trying very hard to remain the price at twelve and a half Euro, they squabbled over the plus and minus of the functions. In the end, they finalized on the costs and planned a celebration for the closing down of the project.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The marketing expert confirmed with the group that the product was aimed at people with age below forty, but it was also designed for people above forty. The marketing expert also stated that people would need a teletext button because it was originally combined with the menu in the prototype. After that, the marketing expert discussed with the designers to design the prototype with fresh colours so it would be more discoverable when lost. They also agreed on the button numbers and the texture.",
"query": "Summarize the evaluation of the marketing expert on the prototype using the past user requirements and trends analysis.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"172",
"473"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "At first the user interface designer wanted to make the remote control curvy. The marketing expert was skeptical of the curvy outlook because it was interrelated with the budget. The marketing expert was concerned as the expert thought it was not necessary. However, the user interface designer insisted on the curvy design as it had a strong aesthetic value. In the end, the designers compromised to make the remote control flat and single-curved instead of double-curved.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the shape of the remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"651",
"689"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The user interface designer was trying to implement a more dynamic and youthful colour on the remote control. However, the designers did not want it to be too childish and stated their will to make it more of an adult-style. Thus they wanted to use metallic grey as the colour of the appearance, and make an extra cover with flashy fruity colours to attract the broader public. Since their target aim was still younger people, a cover would make them more flexible to change the remote control into whatever colour they wanted.",
"query": "What did the user interface designer and the project manager discuss about the colour of the product?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"80",
"118"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The project manager wanted to remove the kinetic function as the manager thought it would be a desirable cost reduction. However, the industrial designer did not agree with the project manager because the designer thought it would be a good marketing promotion as people would think that remote controls with kinetic function are cool. Since they still wanted the price to remain on the same level, they decided to adapt the control into a flat one so as to minimize the cost.",
"query": "How did they discuss the kinetic function of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"597",
"715"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Wouldn't wanna be Project Manager . {vocalsound} Uh , what we going to do .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , once again I'm uh gonna take minutes . So , um no presentation for me . Uh , first we have a prototype presentation by G_ and G_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Afterwards some uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yo .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "J_ and J_ . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "eval eval evalu",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Evaluation .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "evaluation",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Evaluation criteria .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Evaluation .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "s {vocalsound} sorry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh evaluation crit criteria . Uh , in combination with the finance I um {vocalsound} uh I received uh a an uh an Excel uh file",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "which we have to fill in later on . Um , you see . Uh , and then we must see uh if we uh stay under the twelve and a half Euro .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Interesting . Ah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , that's uh that's a big",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oops .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Cool . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . That's gonna be t problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "l so let's uh wait it uh um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we have we have must {disfmarker} uh ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Some creative uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we must have uh some time for that uh because it will be uh {disfmarker} yeah , quite a lot of mathematics .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And after that , uh uh an evaluation of uh the process how we uh how we have done it here with the SMARTboard , with the with our laptops , with the {disfmarker} all uh all this . And uh afterwards , uh we closing . Once again , forty minutes , so uh let's start .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ok okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I would g give the word to um G_ and G_ for the prototype presentation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Shall I give a short introduction and then uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "J_ and J_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "J_ and J_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} J_ and J_ , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Jane and Jane .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay guys , take it away .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Take it away .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hi .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , this was our first concept . We decided to use a single touch-screen . So , we've worked out this concepts , how to how to hold it , where to put the buttons and and stuff . And um , well , we began with uh with a form of shape , that is uh is easy to hold w in one hand , left or right handed .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , we made i it a little bit less thick and uh it has some ar artistic meaning . No ? This uh isn't nothing . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Idea maybe uh is better .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um well , during the meeting I showed you the concept of uh placing the buttons on top , usable with your thumb , and uh the menu structure , uh if necessary , with your other hand , so it's just gonna hold it easily .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it has to be acce accessible with your uh other hand too , of course .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we began uh working out a concept .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh well , and as you saw , we would just have the basic remote with the panel L_C_D_ uh screen . Well , these would be the main buttons , h you could uh change them later on in your own profile if you want to . But , well it's standard they will be delivered with this kind of uh set-up . We have the {gap} more advanced menu uh setting right here . We have the sub-menus and stu stuff . We made a top {disfmarker} oh , or a front view . Just so like you wanna uh back view . As you can see , this uh {disfmarker} there , there are uh two uh weird bumps in it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} This is for uh the added uh effect of uh well uh y youth and dynamic . And uh this is for the artistic effect .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , what we figured is uh we'll show you a picture {gap} later on {gap} you have more b a better idea after that . But , idea is for to stay in balance with these two uh {disfmarker} with these two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And so when you put it on the table , it will just {gap} lay down . It won't {vocalsound} uh roll around or stuff . But it will lie more in your hand like an old telephone maybe , or like these old uh phones .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Y you you may get the idea . So thi this is about uh how we figured it should be . The s panel we g you would hide with some more uh rubber layers , like we discussed early on . Uh , you would s you wouldn't see the uh straight panel , but more fluidly and round .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the panel just uh of course goes like this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But the overlaying layer is uh a little bit uh curved and stuff .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh , in these bumps you could actually uh {gap} put some electronics uh that would {disfmarker} you can make a more thinner uh design ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and that would actually look very nice , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh , about the colour , what have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Oh , we added that this um can be held with your hands for this {disfmarker} maximum is om yeah , one and a half centimetres . So , you have room here for your battery and maybe even other um electronic chips . S and you can just be the the layer of the touchscreen and some {disfmarker} have some wires underneath it to make it as uh thin as possible in the middle for good grip .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , f uh , as colours , do you do you have the picture in uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . Now , well this is the idea about uh the bumps . Uh , you can see there's a v a very uh youthful uh dynamic uh exterior . It uh {disfmarker} you just want to hold it you uh you are young and uh dynamic like us .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'S l {disfmarker} it's like an uh Easter egg .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's like an e but this is for children . We we want a more adult version . But , this is like a remote control for children .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's called a weemote {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} . A weemote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Weemote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Weemote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Hey , that's actually a brilliant uh marketing stand .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , but {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Wait what I w got in mind . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So this actually basic the idea . We we just want to build a more uh adult vers adult version of of this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I can imagine that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And and for colours , we we figured starting with basic colours like uh white or metallic grey . Those are the technological colours actually ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It would be best to to appeal to a broad public and make the covers exchangeable ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so it d",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so the young people will buy an orange and a red and blue and a purple ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or blue or whatever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but when the o older people uh go in the shop and they see uh an orange um remote control , it would be less appealing than a white one . And young people , we think , are a little bit more flexible ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "they think , ah I'll buy for a couple of Euros some noi nice hip uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Maybe it's an idea to sell it without a cover , so that you can pick a cover in the in the shop .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , um I think a cover is necessary , 'cause als otherwise you'll just have the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , there must be some cheap standard cover , um maybe white or something ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's could comes with it and you can buy , so we can make extra money .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh you d you mustn't forget that uh our target aim is younger people .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oui okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , we had decided to uh put uh some flashy fruity colours in it , uh and uh in the survey from uh Milan and Paris uh it uh it came out that uh uh the d the older people are uh more willing to uh to spend money on extra features . So I think uh it will be a better idea to have some uh flashy fruity colours as as a standard ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . The other way around , you mean .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and for the people who uh really want uh a more sophisticated , more traditional look , they're willing to pay uh that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "They want uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they want more luxury stuff ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but they have the money to do it and they want to b to buy that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , maybe it's an idea to put that as an extra and not as a standard .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , maybe {disfmarker} yeah , perhaps you're right . Uh , I I would I would actually agree with this sounds logical .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "An another idea . Uh , maybe we could uh develop a cover uh with wood style .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} They'll please the elder users as well .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah , a colour of {disfmarker} a wood style , a white c and uh a couple of h hip uh fruity colours .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And lea uh l delivered standard with a fruity colour , but not too not too much .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Not not too uh {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is banana and mango , not not purple or p orange and yellow .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , exactly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But , the mai I think th uh the standard must be some kind of uh uh attractive flashy colours .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Or blue or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Not too , but w a little ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because that's our aim .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "li like like this like this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This isn't this isn't too much , is it ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . No . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I f",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , the buttons don't have to be uh all uh all of {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} The buttons ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well I I I think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , except for the buttons it's {disfmarker} it could be a standard model .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah . It {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh something like this would be nice .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , that's that's it from us .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , it's my time now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's my turn .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The Marketing Expert .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh-oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "During the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound} During the design uh design life-cycle we uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sorry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we made lot of requirements and trend analysis and stuff . Um , now is the time to uh evaluate our prototype concept to uh to the past requirements . {vocalsound} So we are going to evaluate the design according to the past user requirements and trends analysis . Um , we're going to do that with a seven point scale . Opening a Word document now . Okay . One {disfmarker} oh , okay , uh I have to expla explain something . We have to uh be consensive about about things . So , it has to be a group uh group decision .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so we gon we gonna evaluate the",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} We're going to vote . We {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the the thing we {gap} saw .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah ? The prototype .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , just saw .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay , one . The remote control is designed for people with age below forty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Seven ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Seven is false .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , true . {vocalsound} Sorry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , b one or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , one I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Most true ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's not just uh designed for people under the age of forty . It's also designed for people above forty .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so a o one is appropriate ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no , a little more in the middle .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or , more like a four .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , uh three or {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I have {disfmarker} I've {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , two or three , because it's not just {disfmarker} uh the qu question is aimed at is it designed for people with age below forty .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But it's also designed for people of age above forty . So ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah , exactly . Exactly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'll say it's about three .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it will be primary appealing to to m minus forty , but also appealing to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But also for {disfmarker} yeah , okay . Uh , second . The remote control is beautiful .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Wow .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , acco according to us , it's one ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , I I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's the marketing uh angle on television .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We have a wonderful {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "p s Of c of course you have to be uh very positive and uh enthusiastic about your own product .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , it's also fancy then .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Three . Uh , the remote control looks fancy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "One ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Of course . We have a perfect remote .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Good . Four . The remote control has big , clear channel switching buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yeah yeah , oh they have to agree but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Leads to user face , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm the User Interface uh Expert . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Daniel . Uh , teletext buttons and volume buttons ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , uh no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No teletext buttons . Teletext is in the menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You you've different menu .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , false .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "False ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And volume is impo",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And volume ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Volume is true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Big and clear ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the they are big and clear . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , big and clear .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , big and clear .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But you could make a teletext button uh six .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hey .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise , the people who read this uh are gonna think we have no teletext button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hey . Hide .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but the teletext button . Yeah , you can ch That's in a menu .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's it's not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , it's w yeah , it {disfmarker} it it",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah , it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it isn't entirely unclear ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "J",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} So , I wouldn't give it a seven .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I would give it a more a five or a six .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Five ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I don I don't know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What do you think , uh Mister Project Manager ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's it's {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay . Well , I agree . I was thinking very black and white .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Black and red . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Thank you J_ . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , don't forget to save it . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Red . Okay . Volume . The remote control is easy to be found .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh well , when we put in fancy colours , yeah",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Fruity . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it has these {disfmarker} all these fruity colours and it has a strange shape .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , if you so if you have {vocalsound} trouble finding it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But , um it it's not making any sound uh ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "have we deciding ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} If you put uh your normal uh remote control under your bed , or you throw this remote control under your bed , is it better findable ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It'll make a difference . We have the better re {vocalsound} I don't know . Yeah , I think so . My remote control's black .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A li little bit maybe ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A little bit , but {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well , we p we can do it glow in the dark .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Four ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Fi",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , if it's in the dark place , you still see it glowing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} K yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Fo fo yeah fo five is {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah , I I I think five . It's it's {disfmarker} it doesn't really make a lot of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , then uh then I'll go for four .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Four ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Because uh four is between three and uh uh also between between true and false .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , you're right .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes , but five is between four and six . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so I'll I'll go for four .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah , you must see it as uh , w uh according to uh the the other uh remote controls , there may uh uh be there in your uh T_V_ room , this one will stand out , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Wha",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "B_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that that's a better question actually .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Exa I think that that's what it's about .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If your uh fifteen remotes in a drawer , uh you find it , yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If it {disfmarker} if this lying on your couch , you're you're {disfmarker} you think what's that for kinda orange uh thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But but the survey under users was that they uh really lost it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's stupid . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Like , no not uh not seeing it , but lost it in the house or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , but when you lost it you're just not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , if i if you see a strange shape lying somewhere , uh then you'd uh recognise it as , whoa , that is strange .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's our remote control . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , mostly when you lose your remote control , it it's under your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , okay . Yeah , I I agree , I agree .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah , what is that . Uh ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Most of times when you lose it you're sitting on it . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Eight , the remote control has fresh , fruity colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "True . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um I would call uh {disfmarker} choose two ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'cause we decided not to make two f uh fresh colours , as it would not {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , not too flashy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The remote control is made of soft material .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , rubber , is kind of soft .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but not too soft we have decided .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "kinda soft , but but not this {gap} . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Three ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Three , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah yeah , easy to use ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Easy to use . One .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} very afford .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Easy to use ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , can it be zero ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , {vocalsound} I don yeah , it is kind of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Top easy to use ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's it's not the most easy to use {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , you can do two , because um",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It can be easier .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it can be easier . But then you're l",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It could {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Jus just with ten buttons , that's the easiest .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , but then you'll lose {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "function f yeah , functionality and our fancy uh look , so .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Functional ability .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but the most uh easy to use is just with one button",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} It is r it is rather easy to use , because you have the primary buttons always visible .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "on t {vocalsound} Yeah , okay , but easy n not not the most easy to use , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , it's it {disfmarker} I I'll go for two . My vote's on two . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Two ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , two . Yeah , two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , m mine too .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We also have to compare it to the uh to the remote controls on the market nowadays . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but waits just a minutes . Inspiration .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What's the time ? We also have uh to do the evaluation , uh the production costs and uh stuff .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "These are the m regular remotes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , I'm uh hurrying .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , eleven . The remote control is innovative .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , true , one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You're agree , Tim ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A very {disfmarker} of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You haven't seen a more innovative uh thing in uh Paris ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The remote control has m remova {vocalsound} removable {gap} from Multilux .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , one . Very multifunctional .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The remote control , i it has speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "False .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "False .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This is used with speech recognition , this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The remote control has built-in games ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . But uh , maybe make it two , because the games are in a sub-menu and not uh {disfmarker} it's not an entire game .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but they are built in , so it's one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they are built in .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not down .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the last , paren {vocalsound} parental advisory function . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You really like the parental advisory . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Freak . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes , {vocalsound} I do .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Th did you make this or the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Bu",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Save as .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , he made it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {gap} {disfmarker} It changes it maybe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I will uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "do the the math .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh dear .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Now it's your turn .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , thank you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We'll see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Okay , we have now to c uh to calculate the production cost . If it's under uh twelve and half Euro , then it's uh ok uh okay . But i is it {disfmarker} if it is b Huh ? No , this isn't right . Okay so , {gap} . Redesign .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If they're under twelve fifty .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , if they under {disfmarker} Yeah . No . Oh yeah . Yeah , it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Cau 'cause {disfmarker} so it's okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "sorry . Yeah , if the costs are under twelve and a half Euro , uh then we uh can uh ra uh move on to the project evaluation , as we have uh experienced it . Otherwise , we have uh do uh have to do a little uh redesign uh thingy . So {disfmarker} Uh , we have to fill in the numbers of the component uh components . We have to uh fil uh , want to uh do it in and uh see uh if we stay under the twelve and a half Euro . So , do we have uh a hand dynamo ? No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's zero .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Me , too .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Battery , yes . One .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Battery , one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "One , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Kinetic , one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Kinetic , one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , solar cells , zero .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , uh simple chip on print ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , n no .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No ? No , advanced chip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Advanced chip .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sample sensor sample speaker ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , the advanced chip is uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Advanced chip is three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Three ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Three Euros , yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah uh , but it it's one one thing , it's three Euro .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , we have one . We have one {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , one piece , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , what's the sample sensor ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , sev zero .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , that's um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Speech recognition , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you give it a sample , uh one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah , speech recognition",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Zero . Uh , uncurved flat .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A zero .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But is it s it's not made from a single uncurved thingy and then uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and then uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You {disfmarker} no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No . No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Thingy . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "no ? Okay . {vocalsound} So it's only uh once double-curved .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'cause um the layer around it fits around the bubbles on the o on the uh the back of the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "three . Eight .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . We're now in a problem , 'cause uh we have uh reached eleven Euro yet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , we don't have anything else . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , go on . Just go on .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but uh we have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just go on . Then we'll see uh {disfmarker} we'll we'll see uh wha how much we are over budget .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Could you step a little to the right ma",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Oh , sorry .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , rubber .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Zero .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Titanium , no ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And zero . Special uh {disfmarker} is the special colour ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Special colour ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so . No , this is a standard colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but we want to make uh the wood colours , uh that uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} S",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes , this is a special colour . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , if if you're honest , we'll uh type one , special colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but but D but Daniel , tha that's that's another brand .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's an add-on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's another article to sell .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we we going to {disfmarker} yeah yeah , that's true . But yeah , it's it's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , j maybe we'll finish uh the the list first and then look back , aye ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That doesn't account for this . Producing this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , the push-button , no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . Scroll wheel , no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Scroll-wheel , no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker} No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . Oh , no . Yes , one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , button , no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , the the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm , is it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we don't have a s",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "These three .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "no . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , we're only four Euro over budget .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay . So , um what's the thing we can change ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No . No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , other case , we can make it single-curved or uncurved .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , can I uh I say something ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , single-curves .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , can I say something uh as Project Manager ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The kinetic thing , can we just skip it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just cut off the kine yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because uh you have to shake it , but that's not really innovative .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah , we just put a good battery it it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mobile phones nowadays .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Daniel . Daniel ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yo . Sorry ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "what do you think about {disfmarker} Here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What do you think about uh putting a battery in it , but also selling like uh the covers , a docking station",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "just apart from the from the thing , so that you can uh put uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} rechargeable batteries in it and just {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But you can use rechargeable batteries anyway , just you s you have to recharge them manual .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and not really {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But we {disfmarker} if you forget about the kinetic ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just an idea .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's a cost reduc",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "well if we do that , we shall {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "well you you can go from double-curved to single-curved .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And that would solve the budget problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , b but i but the single-curved is just {disfmarker} oh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so we have to bake the ba back flat , and then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , it's it's just one curve and not a back uh curved I think . Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's just {disfmarker} yeah well , the single-curve that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Exactly , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that's wh tha that's one option .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Or are these two curves ? Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And then w yeah , and then we could have it , but uh {disfmarker} it's its' well it's it's r it is the main point of the the the the look .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {gap} {disfmarker} {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but what else uh do we have to cut out ? No advanced chip , uh that's a little bit of problem .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We going to cut {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , tho uh that that can be done .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So uh ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Although , can we make it with a regular chip ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay , a little less uh conversation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Curvy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hey , those ar arcs , why are there for ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sorry ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The blue blue uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Fill in {gap} {disfmarker} Just a",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Explanation .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "explanation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Twelve fifty .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I can delete it for you if you want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , no no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , if we do this , uh we're on uh twelve and a half Euro . And we're done .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but does it fit with our design ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh well , the only uh thing that don't {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do we have to u adapt it ? It's single-curves .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , single-curved , but there's a curve in it . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "W Could we just make the bubbles uh cut off the back , and then we're uh has {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we just make it flat .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But , you do l",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But , wha 'Kay , look , what is the uh {disfmarker} If you make it double-curved , it costs one Euro more .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "More . Yeah . You make it optional .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} No , but does it have a lot of extra uh {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Function .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Functional .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "fun function more like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Worth , does it have added worth ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , there's an a a athe aesthetic value , but not functionality .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's really a static value . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh aesthetic . I mean , uh you make like eleven and a half Euros profit instead of twelve and a half . But {disfmarker} I don't know if twelve and a half is uh a fixed uh fixed price .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it is . Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well let's assume it is .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , we can't go above that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We we should assume it i that it is .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I I figured that the kinetic would be a marketing promotion .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . Then it's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "R if you uh promote a kinetic um {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} kinetic remote control , I mean , that would b sell better than an {disfmarker} a normal remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do you think ? Well , now you can shake your remote {gap} control . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , well , y I mean uh , y you can go into your neighbour and tell him , ha , my k uh remote control is kinetic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Kinetic .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You have standard old battery control uh remote con",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What a what about all the m the environment freaks ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it doesn't fit in our co cost profile . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not freaks ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the envi No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I I think it's it's {disfmarker} It look like this one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You ma can make an an especialised extra gold version .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Who {disfmarker} because if you want to go to kinetic , you're uh you're on thirteen and a half and you must go to flat ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and I think now it's it's more of uh a compromise",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And if you make the single curve ha just a big curve , {vocalsound} then it's uh then it's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , just one big curve . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah , one big good curve .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I was going to uh say nasty words , but I don't .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This is strange by the way .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Wood is m is is is cheaper than rubber . We thought that wood would be more expensive .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , this uh American figures . You just cut down some trees . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe . But uh that {disfmarker} this is this is it ? Yeah . Okay , this is it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This is it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Whoever makes uh a remote control out of titanium .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm gonna save it . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It is possible , but you can't use double uh curves for titanium .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's one of the functionability uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well , considering we have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah no , we have to do all those hours again .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Go back . One back ? Costs on uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} No redesign . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , we were above , so we did a little redesign {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We sue . {vocalsound} We {vocalsound} Yeah , we'll start her all o all over again .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {gap} {disfmarker} okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , um now uh it's about time to uh talk about uh this project . Uh , some uh things . Were there uh room for uh {disfmarker} was there room for creativity in our meetings or in your individual meetings ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . I I didn't think so . That {disfmarker} there was a lot of room for it . But , that's mainly because uh of the information that was delivered to us .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It was just fixed information and get your stuff from there , and I couldn't go on on i on the internet and search my own stuff . Bu",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , yeah , yeah . That's true . I agree with that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I th I think you two , {vocalsound} uh especially you and uh and uh Daniel , you d you you both had uh the less creative uh roles in the project .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For us , there was a lot of creativity .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Cause I think m",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We could just sign up an uh remote if we liked .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think Jeroen and I , we had a more design {disfmarker} we could have more {disfmarker} we had more room for creativity than than you two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh how about the leadership ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ha .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Leadership was uh crappy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Crappy . {vocalsound} Cra",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Nah , the leadership wasn't crappy , it was the leader that was crappy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , thank you very much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Nah . No , the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} leadership was okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Now we're done . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , example of crappy leadershi",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , leadership was uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it was good .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , I thought uh the first meeting was a little bit of unstructured meeting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , you could have {disfmarker} but uh , it was your first , no uh no disrespect or something ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but you could have uh structure it a l little bit more .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So like , I I was talking most of the time the first meeting meeting , and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You could of said , shut up you fool . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I notice it too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I was a I was also very uh unhappy , uh very unsatisfied uh about the",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "About me . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} about the first meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , uh I hope uh uh the the the other meetings uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Try to learn from your mistake . {vocalsound} And we will never do it again . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you made up . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "get better and uh I think the the last two meetings uh also we we reached uh some good decisions about uh talk {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it {disfmarker} you did better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , more more consensus .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ev everybody w was agreeing every {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Much more constructive .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so uh that's cool .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , teamwork ? Well , maybe that's uh only {disfmarker} Yeah well , it's for us , because uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , we work together on a project , but everybody has his own task .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah and it's wo more like presentation and some points were discussed .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , it is a little bit {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , really teamwork were you two uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . No {disfmarker} Well , it went okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two guys .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that went w it went well .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's it's just uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Stupid stupid pen , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No hard feelings .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nah . Yeah , we we had some trouble with the pen , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Now you you must push a little while .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but draw something uh difficult .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but us {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "D uh just write your name right now .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Try to write your name ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "in in writing letters , of course , yeah ? Yeah , normally , uh this uh {disfmarker} the w Block letter sign it , yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "O Just uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just just write your name in in one line .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If it's a little bit too small {disfmarker} {gap} bit quicker now .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can be {disfmarker} you can go quicker , 'cause then it it won't notice it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It didn't {disfmarker} Uh he he knows how it works , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I follow the Master class for the SMARTboard , so I think that's the that's the main issue .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um , so uh about this one you were uh you're dealing with ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Means .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "um the the the the digital pen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Y well , yeah . Th the i The idea is great , but it doesn't work properly . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Digital pen , I thought uh th the first time I did individual work , I used it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But , a and the first two meetings I brought it with me , but I didn't use it at all after the first the first meeting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , I have it working . But , uh yeah , well uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's it's not real real use for me .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , it doesn't have that much added value to the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh . Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nee . As uh as I said a m a c few moments ago , it {disfmarker} I would like , myself , to write with a normal pen , because must um {disfmarker} Yeah , it's almost the same concept , but you can just sim more simply put it on our scanner .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I it's the same concept as the pen , where you f have to download the software or s uh very uh slow .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "M yeah . Yeah . And it is still your own handwriting uh popping up in uh Word .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . No , and it doesn't give any added value .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , uh that's true . No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not really , no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh the SMARTboard is uh useful , but the the pen is I uh {gap} {disfmarker} not user-friendly , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , not user-friendly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Be it it takes a lot of time to draw things and to write things ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and it's it's not very precise .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and that's the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We're trying to m to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , like when you do this .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it may um {disfmarker} Yeah , and tr try to wri write your name uh in a in a normal uh size , yeah . Smaller .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Smaller ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , smaller . Just like when you're writing on a letter .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but that's not th the the {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} when you {gap} at a foreign audience , you b don't gonna wr uh write uh small .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , a as you saw on on this drawing , just open open this one or that one . It's uh th it it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , uh we had more problems even here when we trying to draw these buttons , it's almost impossible to get clear uh {gap} when you're uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Sorry .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But maybe there's some function with {disfmarker} no , it isn't . With uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the eraser was another problem . It w t is is this large . {vocalsound} And when you try to erase this line , y {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well , I'm gonna erase my uh name . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm gonna erase my name there .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's a big uh big eraser .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . New ideas ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "M Abo What kind of new ideas ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} Well , the the idea of the touch-screen is uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Do you ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Go on . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm just uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "New ideas about uh the working of this software , about about the project , about the remote controls or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Mm , yeah , I think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know what what I mean . {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hello .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Did you heard what he said ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Know what I mean . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't {vocalsound} I don't know what I mean . {vocalsound} Oh , I have some figure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The eva the evaluation ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the mm the mean uh number is uh one point eight one point eight six .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's interesting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's fairly uh fairly good , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because what does it mean ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So true .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , that uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "All the mo yeah , are between one and two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "all the requirements uh are true or very true , right . Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Oh , okay . Yeah , okay . Thank you , expert .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But the new ideas found for uh wi with working with this uh software ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not really , just they have to improve it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Not really , yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , the concept is okay ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but it has to be quicker . Uh , it is still opening my programme , n almo almost uh my entire computer is locked up during the process",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and it , yeah , just takes too many time . People will still feel the need to to write it quickly on uh a page and not download it and save it , and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You had expected it to to be uh more more uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "More user-friendly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} 'Cause when you use a pen , you can just draw like you d draw normally ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and you do",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "May maybe the idea you proposed is uh a screen here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And draw it , and it's it's placed over there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that l",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Would be easier . Or at least when you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you don't have to adapt to the technology , just you can write in the way you normally write . And now you have to um keep constantly in mind that you're drawing on this screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ? No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And that's a very bad concept .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep , yep . Yeah , that's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah , very bad .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nah , okay , I I {disfmarker} it's my opinion that I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} I think this is better than regular flip-overs , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's can be saved easier .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But if you're in normal flip-over {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} a lot of people write text . There's no text option .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And writing text {disfmarker} uh , yeah , you've gotta really do your best to write some {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and and maybe some uh functions for uh {vocalsound} uh uh circle or uh a square . You have to draw it yourself now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Or maybe even insert picture .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you have uh some presentation , and you have some f",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or text function . Just t t type text , and that that would be uh excellent .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but insert image isn't available ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} 'Cause then you could {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Here . Picture from scanner , clip-art .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that that can be done already .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But not the the the the predefined uh squares I think uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hyperlink ? Hey , what if you do like hyperlink ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "With uh W_W_ dot Google dot com .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Type type it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . Maybe {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Re Real Reaction dot N_L_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ? Sorry ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , is {disfmarker} now is okay . Okay ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You'll just make a link in {disfmarker} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , that's nice .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There's one way to uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , double-click it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe if if you're not using the eraser {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Here . oh . Oh , sorry .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You're erasing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Something else th Yeah , arrow .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Here , that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Double-click it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "as you saw , you have a little uh {disfmarker} Oh , you can {disfmarker} Yeah , thank you . You can go uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "there . So there the the the functionality is there , but it's not it's not ideal ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and it's it's very {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it costs a lot of time to uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To use , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "to use . And that's a pity ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "if you uh if you have uh thirty , forty minutes uh for this kind of things ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and we are now with four people ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And that's m",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but it {disfmarker} well , imagine you are here {disfmarker} you're with the ten people and everyone uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's mostly the case , from the {disfmarker} over here with the managements you get two minutes to make your case ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and if you have to do all this kind {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two minutes of drawing , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You'll rather use PowerPoint and work it out in advance .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And th the one or two things you have to draw when you're there , just use a flip-board .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What I really miss also is uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} is a d is a turtle {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "is a decision uh decision system like um {disfmarker} With the evaluation , you have to Polls like , what do you want , a one , a two ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "maybe a a l a little application like uh uh {vocalsound} give your own number and click one two three four five six seven .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , just like he said with the with the {disfmarker} a screen which you can write , also uh a kind of voting uh mechanism .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , j ju ju yeah , v voting application .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just a little group group decision application .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But uh , {gap} problem is , well you can't discuss anything {disfmarker} well you you ca uh you can , but you will discuss a lot less than l like we did now . We {disfmarker} I mean uh w w w one one person s maybe said three .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , well uh I {disfmarker} we said {disfmarker} uh , no I w th think two , because this and this , and then you can react uh on it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But if you you put a three on it , uh just {vocalsound} figure well , everybody knows what I'm knowing , so they'll all just put a two on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course . But , uh you can still discuss about it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it would {disfmarker} {gap} yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but but click it in an application , that's a lot easier to process .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah okay , the {disfmarker} for processing part .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The digit . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But then uh , I think the idea of one person entering it and the rest uh discussing it , that uh isn't that bad idea , actually .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Not that your opinion isn't valued , but but still .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yo , manager .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh well , just about ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "When are w",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When are we going to produce it ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , tomorrow ? Uh , the costs are within the budget .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Celebration .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , the project is evaluated .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , before we going to celebrate , uh I have uh a little question which you can't answer ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because uh there must be some kind of end report . I am busy with the end report right now . You might thinking what the hell was he doing uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What is an end report ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh about all the meetings , what we have decided , a r r a report of this day .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , that must be made , but I don't know , {vocalsound} here is uh standing uh whoa , we can celebrate now , but the end report is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , you ha you have ten minutes left , I uh read .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You have now ten minutes left to finish up the end report .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay well , that uh that can be done . Maybe we can do it uh together . You can see what I've uh {disfmarker} yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I I s I will uh put it on a story-board .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can see it . Because I think it will uh it must be uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} You you already made a beta version , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's a three uh {gap} with seventy five uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Pages . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , just about .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Y yikes . {vocalsound} Seventy five pages .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , just a moment . End report .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , Daniel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do you want a chair maybe ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A chairman . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No no no ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hey ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm just uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you can s you can read it and uh {disfmarker} here here it is . End report .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So you you finished it actually , and so we just have to read it and say yes or no ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , this not nit it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "read-only . But it's not uh fully finished yet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Five minutes for finishing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , this is about the functional design , the things {disfmarker} yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Management Expert , you have to change that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . I'm uh {disfmarker} when I said it , I remember I had it here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Marketing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's a read-only version .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but you can save it u the {disfmarker} under another name .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Marketing Expert , okay . Um about the three functions where {disfmarker} uh which are most used and uh which must uh immediately be visible on our uh remote control . Um , it must be uh simple to use , very clear what to do , and at the younger people . So , this is really about wh uh what kind things uh must be in it and uh {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe um the {disfmarker} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I understand you , I can talk a little bit Dutch . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , you have to put {disfmarker} uh , switch channels uh at the top , because that's the most used function and teletext at the second {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oka okay , okay , I {disfmarker} I really {vocalsound} didn't knew that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh nay , a volume changing , second .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , this one's first .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "S switch , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You go there and you go there . So , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay , go on .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , maybe I can then do it one two three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , very good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "One two three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If the order is in uh {disfmarker} is is uh important ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's the word for {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The order .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} then the conceptual design . Uh , well all the things we have uh discussed , uh the energy , which uh turn out to be uh batteries , so that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well , okay , maybe you can add it later that we decided in the end because of the cost .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , because {disfmarker} yeah . Uh , he here it is still double-curve , the rubber , the flashy , the fruity , the removable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Single-curves . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , the buttons",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's not double .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} Hmm ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A single-curved .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it's not double anymore , eh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Not double anymore .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nay but that {disfmarker} this is what um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Was initial , the plan . The initial plan .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the the added functions like Tetris snake , it's under the parental control , the touch-screen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , it's uh just a summary of what uh we had discussed uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "On thing uh {disfmarker} One small thing uh , the added functions . Uh , was it included in the cost ? I don't think so , eh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah , it's very cheap .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it's very cheap ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's very cheap . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you you maybe you you you you come at uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it's it's not very cheap , but that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's very necessary .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "no , but it's a development inside corporation . Like , uh w we don't have to buy parental control . Our own people can make that , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it still has some {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it it has some cost , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah . Okay , but so we can discuss that uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "He'll do it in his free time . So uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we can discuss that kind of things I think with the with the the board of uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Of directur or directors .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What's it what's the company called ? I just keep forgetting it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Real Reaction .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Real Real Reaction .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Real Reaction , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can ask your personal {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so uh anybody uh misses something here about uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the end conclusion .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that's that's what I'm gonna write b between now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Still the end conclusion . That's all , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , i in here nothing uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , the decision to make um the buttons on the top , and the menu on the",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "on the bottom . And clearly {disfmarker} Yeah , touch-screen you've mentioned .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , touch-screen I've mentioned .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but the the decisions are put in the uh conclusion , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Why we decided to use a flat uh L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , this n yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , well I gonna redesign uh something now . No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Party party {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because I think it will {disfmarker} Oh , five minutes from {disfmarker} to finish meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , before you change anything maybe you um save it first .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Save it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can't {disfmarker} {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you can select file and export and then those J_ PEG files .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but then you had the same thing .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , eight . And we have uh , {gap} another blank one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Example of children remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Did we change anything ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh wait . Wait . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Wow .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a new uh {vocalsound} commercial logo .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . That's a pity .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Don't save it , aye ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh , that's cool , Tim . Finish meeting now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , I'm I'm",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "why are only the first five SMARTboard files",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm going to finish my end report .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "saved ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , um hereby is {disfmarker} the meeting is finished . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You declare . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I am the one who can say that . Yeah ? Hereby the meeting is finished . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
}
] |
TS3008a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"47",
"250"
]
],
"topic": "Review of project objectives and team building"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"260",
"273"
]
],
"topic": "Grouping of buttons on the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"274",
"317"
]
],
"topic": "Support for DVD players in the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"319",
"333"
]
],
"topic": "Features to make the remote control trendy"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"334",
"396"
]
],
"topic": "Meeting conclusions and task assignment"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This is a kick-off meeting for a new remote control project for television sets. Project Manager started it with a review of project objectives and then the team got acquainted with each other and tools. Through discussion, the team decided to design a remote control with grouped buttons, useful with DVD players and carrying some special features to be confirmed.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager suggested designing a remote control useful for multiple devices such as TV and home stereo. Marketing disagreed by pointing out that TV was mostly used with VCR or DVD player or recorders, functions for which should be included, rather than with a stereo. Against this point, Project Manager argued that DVD players and home cinema sets usually doubled as stereo hi-fi sets. The discussion took a turn when the User interface disagreed and suggested designing a remote control only for televisions. Project Manager insisted on including other functions as most remote controls did and everyone was on board in the end.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about adding support for DVD players to the remote controls?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"274",
"317"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface disagreed on adding support for DVD players to the remote control as the email stated that it should be a television remote control.",
"query": "What did User Interface think of adding support for DVD players to the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"284",
"296"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager recommended to consider the practical value of adding support for DVD players to the remote control. If it was believed to be useful, then this idea would be adopted.",
"query": "What did Project Manager recommend to do when discussing adding support for DVD players to the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"274",
"290"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager suggested a can opener beneath the remote control, three players inside it, and different fronts on it. The rest of the team remained silent about the first idea and negative about the other two. Moreover, Industrial Designer pointed out that it needed to go with fashion; and User Interface shared the idea of keeping it simple and using an international standard.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about features to make the remote control trendy?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"319",
"333"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When discussing features to make the remote control trendy, User Interface recommended to keep the remote control simple in order to gain a whole market and to use a standard as it was aimed at an international market.",
"query": "What did User Interface recommend to do when discussing features to make the remote control trendy and why?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"319",
"333"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing first of all suggested focusing on elderly people who really got problems with remote controls and then pointed out the unclear button allocation on remote controls. To solve this problem, Marketing put forward that the remote control buttons should be grouped based on functions they serve. Project Manager agreed.",
"query": "Summarise the discussion about grouping buttons on the remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"260",
"273"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Hello . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Dang it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And then you have to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's important to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot over here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . No , that's okay . Joost , your mouse .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No mouse needed ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I've got a touch-pad .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Do you know how how I can wake it up ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A touch-pad ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , my laptop .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Slap it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You with your brilliant ideas . I don't know if I can touch the power button . Do you know how how I can wake it up ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . Yeah . Try the power button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Come on , move it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Now , wake up , bitch .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "F_ five . F_ five {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I've lost my screen . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so did I .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I closed it . That wasn that wasn't very smart , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Come on . Get back to me . Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I closed the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I closed it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You've got your name . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , my name is name .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I didn't restart it , I just closed it . Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hope it working .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Never close your laptop .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Everybody's ready ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Great . Thanks .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Great . Well , welcome to the kick-off meeting . I uh forgot to put my name over here , it's uh {vocalsound} it's Martin . Uh , so you all know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , this is the agenda for today . Well , the opening is what I'm doing right now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , we gonna do some acquaintance acquaintance things . Uh give some um examples of the tool training , project plan discussion and the closing . We have twenty five minutes . Okay , the project aim is to design a new remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , some of the {vocalsound} oje objectives are that is has to be original , trendy , and user-friendly . So now we all know what our",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "goal is . Um , I {disfmarker} oh forget {disfmarker} I forget the whole acquaintance part , but we we all know each other . We all know each other's names . Joost , Guido , Antek .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What is your name ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Antek .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Antek Ahmet . And Joost . {gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . I think we uh al already uh been through that part .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , it consists of uh three levels of design . Uh we begin with the functional design , then we go to the conceptual design and the detailed design . Every uh level of design consists of some individual work , and we uh close it with a meeting . You all received an email with a example of our explanation of what uh the particular level of design uh means to the different uh functions , and uh you p you probably read that already , so I don't have to tell you about that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , first we're gonna um uh gonna try some different things with the tools we have over here , so you get acquainted with these uh um uh meeting tools . We have the smart-boards , uh the thes those two boards . This is the presentation boards , wh which one I'm using right now . You can uh um {disfmarker} there's a document folder called um the sh {vocalsound} shared document folder . You can upload your uh documents to that folder and then you can open them over here , so you can do your PowerPoint presentations on this screen . We also have the white-board . Uh , we're gonna skip through th",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can we see the white-board on our laptops ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , no . Just on the on the screen over there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I saw I saw the file , the smart-board that X_B_K_ but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , no . Probably is , but I don't know if the software is on the laptop {gap} . Is is {disfmarker} if it's mainly a thing for in the meeting , so I don't think it's {disfmarker} I don't know if it's important .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This an explanation of the smart-boards . There is a tool-bar over here . It's quite simple . You have the the pen function , eraser function . It's like a very simple uh paint application . Uh , we {disfmarker} well , we use the same file during uh the whole day , and uh you can make new sheets by uh by pu puttin pressing on the blank button . It works like this . Oh . {vocalsound} If pen is selected , yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , no no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With that pen ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's not {disfmarker} But it is pen . It's not working like a pen yet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh . Huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's doing some stuff now . So you can use a pen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Little bit slower .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can use an eraser . And you can make new uh fi uh new blanks , and you can change uh the line width and the colour of the pen by pressing on forward , which y you have to select pen format . And then select current colour or line width . So , it's quite easy . Uh well , now you're all uh acquainted with the different tools . Right , we're gonna try out the electronic white-boards . Uh , every participant should draw his favourite animal and some of its favourite characteristics ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "on blank sheets with different colours , with different pen widths . Uh , I'll start off then . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'll use this uh same sheet . Alright . Oh , let me think . Different colours . Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , I'm gonna draw um a p piranha . Uh , a fish .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} piranha . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . I'm gonna use some different colour {gap} now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Some {disfmarker} a little white . Looks like a fish . Think it is . Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound} Uh , colour . This is black ? I think so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yellow {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Oh , this is just uh {vocalsound} useless uh drawings but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh teeth . I need teeth . {vocalsound} Well , they're not supposed to be green , or whatever colour this is .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . What was uh {disfmarker} I have su to sum up its favourite characteris",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Different .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , I like its uh sharp {disfmarker} razor sharp teeth . {vocalsound} Plus , uh the the big uh forehead and uh a small uh , well a small actual face . And I like its overall uh aggressive look and {disfmarker} Well , that's what I like about uh piranha . I think that's kind of what uh the intention should be .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , who wants to be next ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nobody , I guess . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I will try . Yeah . I will try . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You go , Guido ? Okay . Uh , make a new sheet . Uh , it's by pressing on blank .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Blank ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Then pen again ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh {disfmarker} so in the format menu you can choose the different uh colours and uh pen widths .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Format .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} control . Uh {disfmarker} Ah , purple . Um , I don't know what my uh favourite uh animal is ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but the easiest animal I can think is is a bird .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I will {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You know , I thought of that actually .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's my bird . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Isn't it quite {disfmarker} it's a little bit light .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , another colour maybe . A red one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A small one . Uh , line width . Two ? Three . Oh that's okay . That's another one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , tell us something about uh your favourite characteristics of these uh particular birds .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ano {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Its simplicity . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's uh the most simple uh animal I know , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um , I don't know . Maybe because uh there's there's some s uh free uh maybe in the sky or something like that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe a little bit . Yeah . I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . No , uh it's clear .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {gap} more uh birds ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "N no {vocalsound} no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We get your point . Okay . Who wants to be next ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} Okay , {vocalsound} okay , {vocalsound} okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , whatever . I'll go next .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thanks .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "M",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I haven't got a favourite animal too , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Pictionary . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound} What should I draw ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A cow .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'll draw a penguin . {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} I'll draw a penguin . Whatever . I can't draw , so you can start to laugh already .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I'll do so . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Whatever . Something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Come on .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's little bit hard .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm hmm hmm , orange .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Orange , of course .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh , {vocalsound} it's better than your bird .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Uh yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Everything's better than your bird .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hey , it's blue . No . Whatever . Um , I like its ugliness {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker} Yeah , whatever . The way it walks or whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Your turn .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Drawing . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm going to draw a cat . I don't know why , but a cat is a very uh smart animal .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you can have them at home .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Which is not as the case with uh with bingwings and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , you can have a piranha at home .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ye yes , {vocalsound} yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or a line .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A little bit . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean a bird . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Don't mess with my birds , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's not very uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} very good drawn , but you can see a cat from it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . It's a handicapped cat .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} cat .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think uh I don't think uh Darwin would agree with that . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ah , it's not scared . He's crying but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} He's crying because it's ugl because of his ugliness .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} What do you like about it then ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh it's i most cats are small .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can handle them . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . Okay . Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and then we are uh through the tool training , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I wouldn't call it training , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , this is uh something about the project finance . The selling price of our remote control is gonna be twenty five Euros . And our profit aim is fifteen million Euros . We're very ambitious on this one . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The market range is international , so it's gonna be sold world-wide , and the production cost should be a maximum of twelve Euro fifty per remote control . So that's clear . {gap} {disfmarker} Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , we're now gonna discuss some stuff when {disfmarker} well , we're gonna brainstorm about uh what kind of kemoro romo remote control it's gonna be . Uh , well tell me about your experiences with the remote controls . Do you have uh {disfmarker} know what good experiences with remote controls ? Or do they annoy you sometimes ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Are they difficult to understand , or maybe they don't interact with different kind of uh equipment very well ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't th I don't think the four of us got problems with remote controls ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but if you see elderly people , all these buttons , and then they buy new T_V_ because their previous one was stolen or whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Different .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then a totally different remote control with with different functions on different places , and half of the functions a are removed , or whatever . Uh , so I think what we need is is a clear uh remote control with uh grouped buttons , you know . All th all the buttons which apply to the text functions in in one uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Different functions of of uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , one area or whatever , not like the button to enter text on top of the remote control and the button to um , yeah , to minimise it to this this {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or whatever o o other functions {vocalsound} totally somewhere else .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think we should group them .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And same for the for the volume buttons and the the t",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh , is it gonna be a remote control that's um {disfmarker} what it can be used for different kind of equipment , like your T_V_ and your home stereo ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I was I was thinking uh since a T_V_ is uh mostly used together with a V_C_R_ or D_V_D_ player or recorder , and not with a stereo , I think it should be good to include functions for V_C_R_s and D_V_D_ players , recorders .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . But uh , the D_V_D_ players and home cinema sets often double as stereo hi-fi sets probably .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's what , from my experience .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But isn't it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . Hi-fi set is uh not often used uh as I know of in combination with television .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . But we gonna {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's only for television , I thought . Not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , it is only for televis",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} I thought it was only for television . So so we probably don't have to have to uh have the functions for D_V_D_ player or V_C_R_ .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , it is only for television , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So wha what {disfmarker} What wha {vocalsound} what uh what document {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker} well we we're gonna brainstorm about that . If we think it's useful , we do it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , where where did it uh {disfmarker} Where did you find that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , in the email .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I thought it said uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's right . It's a television remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , television remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I was thinking since it is useful with D_V_D_ {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but most television remote controls support other functions as well . So we can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , that's uh something extras .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , we have to think about that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "True . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , uh but uh we've gonna put some a uh is is it so user-friendliness , is a is a pri priority in this case , or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , also no one's gonna buy it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Only the experts . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , this the maybe is uh some aspect of the {disfmarker} uh , or or some point at at which we can excel by making it very useful .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That w Well , then you're you're the usability uh man , so this uh gonna be a very important task for you then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh my God . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well , other ideas ? How can we make it trendy or something ? Do uh by just sh shape and the look of it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , to go with to go with fashion and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe a can opener underneath it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} For the bear . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I don't know . Or someth something special , like uh M_P_ three player inside of it , or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I I uh , no I think it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , well then the production costs are gonna be too high probably .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I th I think yo we have to keep it simple , to get a whole market .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , way too high . Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Maybe with different type of fronts or uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's international , so we have to use a standard .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , m has to be something {vocalsound} spectacular or uh one which makes it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well that's an idea of course , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We gonna skip back to the goals probably . Uh ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "original , trendly , and user-friendly {disfmarker} Well , we al also already talked about user-friendliness .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , well something trendy and original , well that that goes hand in hand I guess . When something is original , it tends to be trendy , probably ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or we should make it combination of that . 'Kay , so you {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the um technical part of the process is something you're gonna look after for , so you have to think about what kind of uh equipment you want to uh , you know , you want to manage with it . Well , and that's an important part for you then , with gogors regards to the user-friendly part of it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Use friendly . Yep .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , and you uh should look out for what makes it trendy . {vocalsound} Well , you know , y like some special feature . Or some {disfmarker} {gap} Does it does it gets some gadgetness or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yes , what the market wishes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well , the closing . Next meeting starts in thirty minutes . Individual , I think so . The the Industrial Designer will w or the working design , of course , we will uh {disfmarker} Already s said that . The User Interface Designer {vocalsound} {disfmarker} is it a User Inter User Interface {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , yeah . Interface d",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "the technical functions design . And the Management Expert of uh {disfmarker} the Marketing Expert . User requirements specifi Well , this one was already clear to us . Specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach . I don't know how much time we have left .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , not many I guess . We started at twelve .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You just got a message .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , and what does it said ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it said uh five minutes , so we got four and a half .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , I don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "W Okay , well um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I didn't get a message .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . He's the whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , the Project Manager .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Team Leader . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , we're uh ahead of schedule then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Team Leader . {vocalsound} He is the whatever . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , close it . I'm gonna make some minutes or take some minutes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh it's it's clear you can put the stuff in the project documents presentations .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can all {disfmarker} Or we're all uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Project joc project documents is for showing uh on the white-board .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , but we're all familiar with uh uh Microsoft PowerPoint , are we ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm gonna wri uh write some stuff down",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and then we're ready .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or we can leave already {gap} I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} or uh or sh or should we uh {disfmarker} or is important that we leave at exact uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . I don't think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't think {disfmarker} Oh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Great .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We'll see each other in uh thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Good luck .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , good luck .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I will need it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} I will need it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3008b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"24"
]
],
"topic": "Technical preparation and meeting overview"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"31",
"337"
]
],
"topic": "Technical functions on the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"343",
"516"
]
],
"topic": "Extra designs or gadgets to make the remote control special"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"538",
"608"
]
],
"topic": "A sketch of the visual design"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "In this meeting, the team brainstormed about the look, functions and gadgets to adopt in the remote control and finally reached a decision on the overall design. The meeting started with discussion on the technical functions based on some new requirements delivered by Project Manager and on market research results presented by Marketing. In the end, the team agreed on including mainly basic functions on the remote control, adding a joystick-like gadget that was able to charge and track the device, enlarging certain buttons and making it flashy.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer believed that the working design did not involve specialised technologies and therefore would not cost much or be difficult. User Interface questioned this statement by arguing that the technical functions depended on the user requirements. The team discussed this point and then agreed that the remote control should be for novice users. Later on, Project Manager suggested going through market research results delivered by Marketing and the new requirements shown by themself. These clarified the directions of design and then the team agreed to include simple functions, certain large buttons, etc.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion on the technical functions on the remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"31",
"337"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager considered it necessary to focus on customers younger aged below forty because they have potential needs to be fulfilled. By contrast, Marketing believed that the project should target a large group rather than only people younger than forty.",
"query": "Why did Marketing disagree with Project Manager when discussing the technical functions on the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"121",
"156"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "User Interface did not like the idea of putting lots of functions in the remote control because younger people were looking for a trendy look rather than multiple functions.",
"query": "What did User Interface think of putting lots of functions in the remote control when discussing the technical functions on it?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"178",
"193"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "At first, Project Manager pointed out that the key lied in users' pain point, which was the trouble of losing remote controls. The team then started brainstorming in this direction, coming up with ideas such as a can opener, bouncing pads, big buttons, flashy design, changeable fronts, etc. Later on, Project Manager put forward the idea of having a gadget like a vase to be put on the table, for containing the remote control. This idea then developed into one containing a base that could charge and track the remote control.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about extra designs or gadgets to make the remote control special?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"343",
"516"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager believed that money spent on the rechargeable units was necessary because other elements of the remote control were just basic. In addition, Project Manager thought it would not cost much if the product was produced in Taiwan. However, it was acknowledged that cost could probably be a concern so he/ she decided to only do that if the cost was fair.",
"query": "How did Project Manager think of the cost of adding rechargeable units to the device when discussing extra designs or gadgets to make the remote control special?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"400",
"486"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "To Industrial Designer, remote controls could last a long time with two batteries. Therefore, it might not be necessary or attractive enough to customers in his/ her opinion.",
"query": "What's Industrial Designer's concern about the idea of adding rechargeable units to the device during discussion on extra designs or gadgets to make the remote control special?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"400",
"455"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Here we go again .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} My mouse is not working anymore .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} He's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "when I put it in , is is going to beep beep beep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , I got a nice little screen here over here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I got like this big black border uh on every side .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Everybody ready ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I'll I'll fix it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Welcome at the functional design meeting , again presented by Maarten .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh this is the agenda , the opening . Uh , we've got three presentations . And I'm gonna show you some of the new projects requirements that were sent to me . And we're gonna make a decision on the remote control functions . We have uh forty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , well this is the {vocalsound} the closing already .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So uh {disfmarker} well we start off with the th the first presentation then . Uh , I think um in uh {disfmarker} we have to do it in uh in right order .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know what the right order is . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh that . It won't {disfmarker} doesn't {disfmarker} Maybe we should start with the the technical functions .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "how can I get this on the whiteboard ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well it's you dumped the file in the uh in the sh in the project document folder .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In project .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I've done that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You've already done that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No can that open .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well let's close this one . We'll just uh open a new one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Open it there .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , well . Yes . Uh-oh . New thing . Oh yeah , uh I have to say something . Uh , due to some uh technical problems I haven't uh digitized the last uh the meeting minutes . But I'll uh make sure that uh happens next time .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} About the get {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I'll get this one uh in digital uh form too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , we're going to um uh talk about working design . Um , the method of the remote control is uh electrical energy , it activates a chip uh in the remote . It's an electrical circuit which compose uh messages in the form of uh uh infrared signals to control the television . Mm , it's a nowadays very uh known , a known uh uh technology . Um , the known technology can make a cost very low . Uh , it's a wild uh {disfmarker} a wide sale uh of uh remote controls in the world . And and the components are very uh very cheap . Um , Uh , diodes , uh bat batteries and uh uh LED lights , they're needed and they're uh everywhere available . Uh , again , it's a fair price . It's a common uh technology uh , like I told um {disfmarker} Uh , the circuit board , it's the most um important uh um part of the remote control . Uh , we can use for that uh fibreglass with copper wires , it's {disfmarker} it is uh {disfmarker} can be made as fast as printing paper . It's uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it's all very uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they're making it uh all the time . Uh ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and it's not uh very specialised uh technology . {vocalsound} I haven't come to here , but um I've got uh some uh images of uh remote controls . They were not uh very uh trendy or just uh just a remote control like everyone knows . So I don't know uh why I should put it here . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . But it's the technical side of the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but uh I uh haven't made it because uh of the time .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Okay . Well , we'll we'll have to skip that part then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} What ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you don't think it's a problem um to design uh the technical part of the remote control ? It's gonna be easy ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No . Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But nothing restricted for user interface ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . M",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With technical {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um , no , it's uh it's just a part of uh a known technology , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Remote control is nothing special nowadays .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "R regardless of what type of functions we want to implement . Doesn't really matter .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I kind of uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah , {gap} okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because of the {disfmarker} all the televisions uh {disfmarker} there are a few {disfmarker} maybe a couple of televisions with the new functions ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but is it useful to put them on a on a standard uh remote ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , we'll see . We'll see later on .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , the technical functions . Um , well I don't know if you got the same uh pictures as I got ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but uh I got these two ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and I think they're {disfmarker} we have to focus uh on uh the uh one hand the expert view or the novice user . {vocalsound} th I think it's it's very much uh depending on the user requirements , I don't s uh know who's doing t",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , uh will there be some uh user requirements later on ? {vocalsound} The ones I {disfmarker} I've uh received from the account manager .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it {disfmarker} I think that's very important to watch uh what kind of functions there we want to uh put in a remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well , we'll keep this in mind , and then discuss it later on .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well y we can put functions in it when uh {disfmarker} yeah , when we uh get the user requirements uh and we can update it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh . Okay , but this real this uh big d uh distinction between this type of remote . {gap} we should we should choose one uh {disfmarker} we should not compromise but uh really choose for uh expert viewer or novice v",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , I agree . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? Well , what {disfmarker} that's what you want {disfmarker} trying to say .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , yeah w if you want try a a a huge market , if you want to reach a huge market , uh like elderly people and {disfmarker} we have to choose for novice user .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I don't know . It's it's really um depending on how how how far the the the remote controls are already in n um in use .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well {vocalsound} some of these {disfmarker} Uh , yeah . Well , some of that will {disfmarker} Yeah , but i but it will be more clear when we come to the uh u uh some of the new requirements .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , probably , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh well , there are l at least uh basic functions , uh like just th the channels uh one till nine , uh on and off switch , which must be clear with a red button or something like that . Um , most standard uh have volume , of course , and a mute function , and , of course , the next and previous channel . I think that's just basic what we need .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And from that on we can {gap} user requirements what we need more . Uh {disfmarker} Yeah , I just um um I thought Joost was looking at the trendy {disfmarker} the trends in the markets , and I don't know if there uh are any um {disfmarker} uh if you put more functions , more buttons , maybe it's com becoming less trendy or something like that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "M you can just {vocalsound} you can k {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I haven't really found a conclusion like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you can keep it in mind that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . Uh , I th I thought the the {disfmarker} with less buttons you can make a more trendier uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Design .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , more trendier design , I think . I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sounds interesting .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , well , that's all I have to say , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that was it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , then the Marketing expert can uh tell us something about the current market .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's alright . Um {disfmarker} Alright , I've done some research for functional requirements . Um {disfmarker} yes . The working method um {vocalsound} there were hundred uh uh w h one hundred people , uh how do you say uh , f watched using remote controls in the usability lab and they also uh filled out a questionnaire uh with a few questions . Uh , I've lined them up here . Uh , ask whether um common remote control looks good or not , about willingness to spend money on remote control , about zapping behaviour , and uh and stuff like that . I uh have found some interesting things . We do we do got a market . Um , {vocalsound} three out of four people claim m uh to find remote controls ugly . So if we make a trendy design , we sure have seventy fi seventy five percent of the market , which you can reach . Um , three out of four users uh zaps a lot , as I uh quoted here from the uh results . {vocalsound} Zap buttons are used one hundred and sixty eight times per hour . That's quite a lot . Um , {vocalsound} relevant options are , of course , power buttons . Although , only used once per hour . Uh , channel selection , volume and buttons for text , and the more um , yeah , other functions , like audio settings , video settings , sound settings are not said to be very important and uh very much used . Furthermore , fifty percent says uh they only use ten percent of the buttons on a remote control . That doesn't say we got {disfmarker} we can leave ninety percent off . But it sure um says we shouldn't make it too uh complicated . Fifty percent also claims uh to have lost a remote control very often in the room . And um {vocalsound} an important thing here , the most important customers uh , which is over seventy percent of our market , is in the age range of thirty six to sixty five years old . And uh elderly people , our market , are less interested in uh nice features , but more willingly to spend more money on remote controls . So , {vocalsound} what I was thinking {disfmarker} oh , wrong side . We shouldn't implement too much features on uh on our remote control , because elderly people will get th lost . Group features for a higher usability , uh what I was claiming in the previous meeting . Um , all the settings , about audio settings , video settings and channel settings , which are not very often used , we could group them uh on one button and make them accessible uh in one menu button or whatever , because they are used very rarely and well , it uh {disfmarker} there are a lot of options there , so we can really make uh {disfmarker} yeah , how do you say , we can spare at buttons over there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And um , if you want to implement V_C_R_ and D_V_D_ options , group them in the button , not too uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah . Small buttons , so they won't be very um , how do you say {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Visually presents .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , won't be very present , thank you . And a trendy look , well uh , although seventy percent of the market is uh {disfmarker} consists of elderly people uh who don't really care for trendy looks or whatever , I guess it can do no harm to make it trendy for the other thirty percent . That was kind of what I found .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , then we {disfmarker} I'm gonna show you some of the new project requirements and then we gonna discuss on uh what features we find important .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , well some of the uh new requirements {vocalsound} make some of your findings quite uh irrelevant , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because um uh s decided to put {disfmarker} They have decide to put two additional requirements forward . Well , now I see four .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Two ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's kinda strange . Well , they say tele teletext becomes outdated since the popularity of the internet . Well , I think that may be so , but well , we can't just leave the teletext button off .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's impossible , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No way .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No uh , I agree , I agree .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So the compromise we could make is just to make one teletext button , you know , like on and off , and don't make a lot of special {disfmarker} put a lot of special features on it to make it transparent or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not too much , no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You know , it's just you want you want to be able to make use of teletext , but not to play with it that much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we have to think of that . The remote control should only be used for television . Otherwise , the project becomes more complex , which endangers the time t t ma uh the time to market . So maybe we should leave all D_V_D_ and V_C_R_ related features off completely .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . I think that uh that's what they're trying to say .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , our current customers are within the age group of forty plus . New products should reach a new market with customers that are younger than forty . So you uh talked about the elderly who were willing to spend more on a remote control and who were interested .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But , well , they're not relevant because we are aiming at a younger {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I don't really agree actually , to be honest . It's a very small market which we will approach then if we uh want to reach customers younger than forty . It's only like thirty percent of the total market .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it is {disfmarker} it's is a dif it's a fact that the th th that bigger market you're talking about , we already cover that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mayb yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Our company already sells remote control to the older people , but we we also want , {vocalsound} you know , a new customer group . That's the one we haven't covered yet . So I think that's what the problem is . We haven't got remote controls for uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I think , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe maybe we can compromise a little bit .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so . Maybe if it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not too much then , bu alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "no no , but I think we have to just keep in mind what the older age group wants . So maybe we can make a remote control that's primarily interesting for the younger group , but isn't that bad for an older person either .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , our corporate image sh should stay recognisable in our products . Our product's corporate colour and slogan must be implemented in the new design . Okay , {vocalsound} something else nice to know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But what's our slogan ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sorry ? Yeah , {vocalsound} you will have to look that up . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The slogan uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , I'll have a look .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think it's something about the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Puts fashion in electronics . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We put the fashion in electronics .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay . {vocalsound} I thought it w might be , let's make things better or something , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sense simplicity . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sense and simplicity . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay well , {vocalsound} let's go back to the the agenda . So we've now had to {disfmarker} the three presentations . We know about the new project requirements . That means we can uh well d yeah , discuss on the remote control functions . Well , if I can uh make a start , I think it's becoming more clear what kind of remote control it's gonna be , and I already talked about the {disfmarker} maybe you have a f familiar with the rem remote control that has the the can opener underneath it . I think we're we're looking for some {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we we're looking for a really simple remote control with only basic T_V_ functions . Y well , that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , to be honest , if um our uh aim group is uh till forty , not older than forty , maybe that's not very uh {disfmarker} yeah , we don't really need to have a simple remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think we can implement more functions then , because um {vocalsound} basically uh the younger people are more able to adapt to new technology",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but wha",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and therefore will be a more {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "M yeah , that's why um well a lot of um the use the requirements the the account manager sent me , I think they are are c are contradicting each other ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because they want a simpler design , and no uh other uh s functions than just T_V_ , but they s do aim at a younger {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , ma",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but you sai you said that that a lot of functions aren't used .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So why should j we put this function in ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think more {disfmarker} I think uh people {disfmarker} younger people are more looking for just a trendy look than uh more functions .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I think uh you {disfmarker} we can make some discuss uh distinctions in uh what kin in the , know , th th in functions you have {disfmarker} Y Well you have different kind of uh equipment in your room , like a t T_V_ and a D_V_D_ player .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can uh , know , you {gap} you can {vocalsound} make very d you can put very detailed functions regarding the T_V_ set on your remote control uh with the with uh the , you know , audio settings and uh v uh screen settings . We don't want that . I think that was {disfmarker} that became clear . We don't want . But w maybe we should put some func uh , I know that the younger people will most likely have a D_V_D_ player they want to , you know , they want to uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh you said {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "control , remotely .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , d yeah , but th the functions are not in the remote control we're making .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , yeah , th th the user requirements of the the {disfmarker} The new project requirements told us not to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's n Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But maybe w Yeah . I think we maybe should {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well we should uh put some functions for other {disfmarker} maybe for other equipment on it . But just the basic functions . Maybe like rewind and wind ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or n what d what do you guys think ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But you can put them under the same button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Not much more than that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , if {disfmarker} as far as possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep . Or we can u u we could put 'em behind the flip-flap or whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But what do you think ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So t",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do th should we implement features that uh uh or functions that {disfmarker} to control other devices ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , you don't think so ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , new requirements say no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the new requirements say so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you can put a play and stop and and rewind .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , maybe it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "maybe there there there is something th m most of the time these functions don't support the particular device as well as their their own remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You know , a lot of D_V_D_ players have some tricky settings with {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I i if it's too simple uh th they won't use the remote control , they use their own th th {vocalsound} with lot more functions .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Y yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yep , exactly . That's that's wha",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But but for for example , V_C_R_ , that's better example in this case . I think on a remote control for television you don't need to be able to programme uh the V_C_R_ to start recording at three P_M_ or whatever ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no , you don't {vocalsound} {disfmarker} No no , you don't need it . No , no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , no . Exactly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "just play , stop , rewind and uh fast forward .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but we have to think uh {disfmarker} w we have to think D_V_D_ I th uh , I guess ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I know , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so um but uh from my experience it's kinda {vocalsound} a lot of D_V_D_ players , you know , like forwarding , goes differently . Uh , you get two speed or eight speed or sixteen speed . It's c sometimes a bit difficult .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe if we just leave the D_V_D_ functional m uh {disfmarker} Well , I was thinking about putting it in , but concerning the project requirements and what you just said , I think we m should focus on the T_V_ then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but just {disfmarker} {vocalsound} keep it simple and look more at th",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh and it's just an uh a complimentary remote and not a universal one . If you want to keep it simple , you can make a universal remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . It's only for television . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . It's just a s it it should be something that is like a gadget on your coffee table ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but there are there are {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and it's just for when you you you jump on the couch , you pick up the the the nice remote , the simple one , just to put on the television , nothing more .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , nothing more . Exactly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , but what televis",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But how wi how will you be able to handle a whole market ? There are uh a dozen of uh {disfmarker} dozens of of remote controls that have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we we'll make w this one trendy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And simple .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The user interface is easy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , we we will come to that , but ju first on the on the functions . So we should put uh zap buttons on it . Um , also numbers , to uh to go to the specific channels .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the basic {disfmarker} yeah , basic functions , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes , definitely , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's too much integrated in the other .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , a t a teletext button should be there . But just one big teletext button , on and off .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Probably .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and maybe two or three other options , but not {disfmarker} nothing more than that . I think stop function is very useful . If you have a uh a page which consists of more pages , and you are not a very quick reader ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "then I think it's very irritating if the next page shows up , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but uh I think that becomes too difficult , it's not a very common function and people will have to read up on their remote then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , I use it very regularly , the action . I re I use it {vocalsound} quite often .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , but maybe you s yeah yeah , maybe y you do , but I've never heard of it in the first place . And",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Will you look {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we have to {disfmarker} well t yeah , and t and teletext is becoming outdated .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Look at the market .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We just want to see what programmes are on and what time it is probably . Yeah . I don't know . I think that that's kin getting too complex for our remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know what you th guys think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Might be . Might be .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I {disfmarker} uh , it's {gap} {disfmarker} {gap} Sunday I always use it for the uh yeah , for the soccer uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but do you like to have a {disfmarker} such a s stop button ? Or do you think it uh {disfmarker} I think it's a kind of uh uh very rare and special function .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , uh when you uh uh {disfmarker} when you look uh {disfmarker} for example um , a couple of weeks ago I looked at the {disfmarker} for the flights , and there are a lot of flights in one page , so if if th",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Okay , it goes {disfmarker} Yeah , but that's kind of stuff we should do on the internet right now . That's why {vocalsound} it was uh said in the in the use in the r new requirements .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but you could put",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "on the z on the zap buttons you can put it to uh to uh access all the same pages .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah uh ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you have seven pages , you can go up and down .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "lots of new televisions can store pages , you know , and then you can just skip manually through them using {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we should just put one teletext button on it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then we meet uh the new requirements . we also meet the other thin y you sh you just re we have to choose for the the simple design , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A simple {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Um , well , what functions do we have to decide on ? Or do we {disfmarker} uh I dunno if we have t stif specifically name all the functions we n we want . We have the zap and uh the volume . Should we do m make them very big ? The the the zap button . D d",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think the plus and the minus button should be uh quite present ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Th that's that's that's considered to be trendy also .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But trendy , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe you should place them on a {disfmarker} uh , in a special way ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we can make uh a kind of a joystick .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , something or uh {vocalsound} somethin special way to to zap through the {disfmarker} it has to {vocalsound} s it has to be {vocalsound} {disfmarker} yeah , and quick . You have to use it very quickly .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Original . It was uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} If you grab the remote , your hands should be on top of the plus .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and it {disfmarker} the buttons should make it um possible to to zap through your channels in a rapid {disfmarker} at a rapid pace .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , what should we decide on then ? I think in a in a case of this simple remote control , the technical aspects which uh weren't worked out already , but it w shouldn't be a problem then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , it's o just signals uh {disfmarker} and the television d uh does the rest .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , okay , but we don't have to {disfmarker} uh , when we don't want to uh control other devices , I think it makes it even more simple .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe we {disfmarker} uh uh the batteries maybe . If you use large batteries or small batter batteries .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The most standard batteries .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think that we should use uh d",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think double A_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , not not uh the b the watch kind",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker} th the most uh {disfmarker} Well , it has to be simple , and I wi",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The most ordinary uh batteries .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Which are most likely to be found somewhere in the house , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh . How much time do we ha we have left uh ? M m m more than thirty minutes ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think about twenty minutes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh ten twenty minutes . {vocalsound} Well , uh these these shouldn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Early break .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But i in a way we have to be uh uh special .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , okay . But that's that's {disfmarker} Do you uh have you have you think about tha thought about that ? How we can {disfmarker} what the extra touch can be . Do you suggest design or the shape or some gadget f f kind of feature or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe th m",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , it was something about how we lose them . Maybe it should be a remote control when you you clap you hands it makes some noise or some gadget kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think that's n that's more for a for an age range or uh {vocalsound} ten to twelve or whatever . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "To find him . That's maybe {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} I don't know . I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Nah , um a lot of people like to have such kind kind of kind of gay kind of things . It w it w should be like a birthday present or something that you give someone , and it is i {gap} has something nice .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , that's good one , yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe it w should have a big uh light that can flash or something on it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or maybe it should {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or an {disfmarker} or the like the the can opener . Maybe it contains some feature that you don't normally link to a remote control . I think it's very impor because we're gonna make such a basic remote control , we have to do something to make it special .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's gonna cost twenty five Euros .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Ye I think the can opener i is a brilliant idea actually , because television and beer is not a rare combination . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but the {disfmarker} well , it's already been done .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but that's {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nah . {vocalsound} Yeah , that's true . But {disfmarker} and I think it's gonna be uh very uh {disfmarker} it has to be sturdy or something , so maybe with with bouncing pads so that you can just throw it on the floor or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} it has to be used something special ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and you really {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it has to ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you know y not s people , when they buy it , they have to think , well this one lasts for a long time . We're really gonna use them . Not some thing you you throw away next week , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So maybe uh that's i I think that's {vocalsound} when uh when we decide on these type of functions , know , basic functions , uh it's very important to find something like this . So there's a very important task for you . And maybe we can all think about it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Be original , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , also for you maybe , when t you {disfmarker} it's very nice when you can be entra when you can be trendy , and and uh and al as in a friend {disfmarker} use friendly as well , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . And use friendly , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So big buttons , flashy design , and maybe some kind of gadget kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Must brain-storm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , a swapable front or whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , or just different colours would be uh {disfmarker} I don't know if people also wanna spend more money on fronts for their uh remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For the remote control . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It could be be {disfmarker} Yeah , you never know , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Why not ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "More money for us .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it {disfmarker} and I think we have to make it quite big .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Quite big . Yeah , you think ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , definitely , definitely .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} people {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's to be uh a formed for your hand .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So , and and also because uh it is expensive . If you want it to be something , you know , it's ha doesn't have much functions {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "want to be {disfmarker} you don't want to get it l make it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , it {disfmarker} it it should be f {vocalsound} be visible nearly anywhere in the room . As I uh as I said during my presentation , fifty percent uh o",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . And shou and should ni look nice when you put it on a table . I I think you m might wanna put it uh {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A standard or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} yeah , that it it it it stands up . Yeah , you have to put it on its {disfmarker} So it's like a vase or uh something you put on a table .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . A face ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} no no , {gap} put stuff inside it . But , it's like like a statue or something {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or uh yeah , yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "More like a joystick then .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , I see what you mean , yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's like you have uh four phones . Something like that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , but {disfmarker} yeah , but you also can put it somewhere near the window in {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you do that , but I don't know if that's possible within the production cost of twelve and a half Euros .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That it's it's fashionable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} I {gap} I don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I in in the base we could like make uh a button , and if you push it , the remote control itself s makes noise .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's probably stupid , but uh as I found here uh , fifty percent , was it fifty ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But that's that's fun for the first time , and then the second {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh fifty percent fifty percent often loses remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but when you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} when it gets lost , how can you press the button to make it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No uh , of the base the the the the the the the thing you put it in .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "On the television .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh , that's kind of nice .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , like this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If an {disfmarker} a button in in that uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And then also you don't even need batteries , because you can make it uh chargeable . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A char {vocalsound} chargeable . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , you can ma make rechargeable one , yeah . Why not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that w yeah , but {disfmarker} yeah , the pro No , well I think that it might be t p Well , nee but we don't {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why not .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe you , but {vocalsound} we don't know much about production cost , but when you {disfmarker} you can imagine that when you spend twenty five Euros on a remote control and it's a basic remote control , then the then the money {disfmarker} there must be money to spend on that kind of st you know , {gap} rechargeable units .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With recharger .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It should only cost twelve and a half Euros , of course . Aye ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we would d ma we'd do it in Taiwan and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So , it's not gonna be that expen",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Production . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh I I think it's a great idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It should be possible . I think it's a good idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "S some kind of be I've never seen that before , and you make it uh um be uh , you see it with uh the mo the mouses nowadays .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To make a base or something ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yes , definitely . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but is that handy ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , I {disfmarker} well it's really ch you can recharge it , so you ha never have the battery problem . That's one {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's it's it's it's",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And uh you can always find your remote control up {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's not the purpose to be handy , it's",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But but remote controls remote controls nowadays can can last uh two years , three years , with with t two batteries .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , okay . Well , maybe yeah , you could {disfmarker} when that's {disfmarker} when it's too costly , you could probably skip the recharger ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but you will {disfmarker} you do need uh also an {disfmarker} uh , also you would need a battery in the the base unit as well , you know . Does it makes it kinda {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well y you you could connect that to two hundred to twenty volts , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Yeah , but that's not {disfmarker} it's ugly , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . Okay . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but then it's very easy to make it also a rechargeab I don't think that is gonna cost much to make it also a recharge function in it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "On the other hand , if you don't do it , we can also make a nice bay . I mean , it looks trendy and still {vocalsound} still put a bleep function in it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but um I think the bay is definitely uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it's a good idea . And make it , you know , we we um {disfmarker} Well , we uh {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it isn't a t a most uh costly uh remote control . We can save on the on the functions . We just {vocalsound} put some simple button in , make it big and sturdy , nothing more , and just make s sure there's some noise that it can make , or probably some kind of cheap light thing around it or that it uh that it lights up ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure , why not . Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's also nice . And if you put it away , I think it's uh w we have to {disfmarker} we uh {disfmarker} that's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's not a easy market .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We have to something special . And for twenty five Euros people want something remote c special from your mote control ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and we can't deliver that in r with uh regards to the functions ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Definitely .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because we aren't gonna put {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With eye candy , ear candy , whatever . Yeah , definitely .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And then uh when make it , you know , nice looking shape and this {gap} {disfmarker} and then you also you got the stand-up thing . Yeah . I think I think it's a good idea . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it must be must be a gadget to have .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Definitely , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , if it {disfmarker} let's {disfmarker} well , we will see what's possible concerning the the costs , and if it's possible we'll do that . And we even try to save up on other stuff to make sure we can do such a thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the first thing we {disfmarker} the most likeable thing to to n to skip is then probably the recharge function or something . If that's too expensive , we won't do that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we c",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But it would be nice .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It would be nice , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's the idea . I know that batteries last long nowadays . And and what people just think about , well , I'll never have to buy any r batteries again , so y b because it's very annoying when your battery is empty . And you know then when you haven't batteries around , and probably for two weeks , your remo {gap} {disfmarker} I've experienced that that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Most televisions break down before the battery pack is empty , so {vocalsound} yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . So , easy functions . Well , we will we will {disfmarker} I think we'll work that out , zapping , numbers on it , bi",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or just give a beep when the battery's out or uh down .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . But it's also annoying .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , why not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} 'cause as long as it stays {disfmarker} as it ke keeps working , you're not very motivated to do something about it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {gap} true .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then it beeps all the time and {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You don't want to have {disfmarker} ever have those problems , and you won't have if if you have the rechargeable {gap} . And you don't have to use the unit , you can also put it on the side if people don't like it . Uh , i i in the in the ma",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But you pay for it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it w I mean , if if they pay for it because they think , oh , that's a great idea , I'm gonna use it . And when it , you know , when time goes by and they think , well , I'll never put him in the recharger , I think last long enough , then they put it on side and they can use it now and then . Then when they look {disfmarker} get m I I I know for sure that everybody who buys this remote control , within a couple of months of {disfmarker} they will be in the situation that they they're seeking for the remote control , they wanna see something quick and uh just push the button and th uh ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's brilliant .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Bleep bleep bleep , oh there it is , yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I've never {disfmarker} it's so simple , but I've never seen it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "M maybe we should really {vocalsound} do this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And you can leave it just there .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . Nearly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound} Okay now , well , how much time have we got left ? These clocks aren't uh synched .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , now I've put uh {disfmarker} well , {gap} it is twenty p",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I'll {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we have ten minutes or something ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Something like that , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we're uh we're done . I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh fifteen minutes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We've decided on the functions . Well , there is some {disfmarker} oh . There is a closing sheet . We have lunch break , and then we have thirty minutes of individual work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh {vocalsound} okay , I'll make sure {disfmarker} I'll {disfmarker} I had some problems with uh the digitising the the first minutes , the the s the next minutes won't be a problem , but I'll try to make sure the first one will be in the folder too , but maybe it won't work , but you'll see . I think these are more important than the first ones , so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We'll see .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Can you make an uh uh a part of f folder for the minutes maybe ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That not not everything in one one uh folder .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maarten , five minutes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , five minutes . Yeah , because uh I I d I did uh {disfmarker} the first minutes I did were were were a bit scratchy , you know . Then I did a s second one with a nicer layout , which I could uh , know , use for the other ones {gap} well , but uh I d think uh I forgot to do {disfmarker} put done under the first one , and when you go write a second uh it's get {disfmarker} it's not working {vocalsound} when you try to write second uh paper or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Maybe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , that's true uh , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And then you {disfmarker} {gap} {disfmarker} you had to overwrite it or someth I don't know . Becau I d uh , it was not my uh pen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Should we by the way draw um",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} this kind of looks you like .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "on our nice whiteboard , um a little uh idea of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Of the shape .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , probably , it would be nice .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or the sh",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I dunno . Has anyone got um {vocalsound} a little bit detailed ideas about the shape ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Do you get an idea of the shape ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't , for one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe like this pen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A bit bigger I guess , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , bigger .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A little bit bigger , yeah but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The shape is nice , it's um something different , and we want we want that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It has to feel nice in your hand .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , I I {vocalsound} I have to say , I have this uh can opening remote control in my head most of all ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or I think some {disfmarker} maybe we should {disfmarker} no , that will be too costly .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , uh look {disfmarker} uh look at the pictures .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We shou we could also , that was a {disfmarker} would also be an idea , but I don't think it {disfmarker} I don't know if it exists already , you should like make Alessi or something design it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That would also be nice . But that's gonna {disfmarker} then you c then you don't",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {vocalsound} twelve and a half Euros ? Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but then you don't have t yeah it {disfmarker} that's not something i that's in the production cost {disfmarker} {gap} a one {disfmarker} it's a one time , you know {disfmarker} s was {disfmarker} it's a single cost .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , m but but then you can {disfmarker} nah , I don't thin I think that it would be more expensive , because I've bought the Alessi stuff more often and even small pencil holders or something are more expensive .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Would be a nice idea though . I don't know . I think it uh has to be a r {gap} it has to have round forms or something . Like something like that or so or so",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Something like that is very ergonomic .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And on th and then uh s a base unit underneath it . It's also round .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Put it in there uh {gap} wire on it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe uh , I don't know , some some lights , a big but well . {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , flash lights at the side . At the side , or something like that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Volume and programme , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , volume and programme should be there I guess , because you hands wi uh y your hands will be in the smaller part .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And some of the extra funct Some of the extra functions over here . Numbers .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and the numbers on top , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And and lights ? How we're g well , maybe uh s a ring of {disfmarker} no , no , you have to {gap} {disfmarker} Maybe on the side of it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe ro roun rounds",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , side of it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "uh uh l sorry .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Along the side uh strip of {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just two LEDs or something on the side . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe lights also around the volume and the p the plus minus programme buttons . {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I also meant the the blinking li w you know , the ones that also blink when you try to uh uh locate your remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , theys have to be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , uh probably at the side . You know look at the front , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , yeah . Exactly . When you you see it from the side , then it would look just {gap} like that . And then you have a strip of uh lights or something",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , exactly , and then there is {disfmarker} yeah . Yeah , something like that , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , uh I think it's nice , for one thing . {gap} maybe put something on top of it {vocalsound} or , you know , like that's {disfmarker} looks funny .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No . {vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . Or some bump .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think I think that'll be too big tha too big then .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe some {disfmarker} Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Bumper or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We'll have to think about it . I think we're we're done .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes , we are .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We can save this one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Lunch break .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Alright . Yes , I guess it's lunch time .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay then .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm mm . {gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Half and hour ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , five {gap} uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I thought our next uh next individual round was half an hour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that was what uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know about the lunch break .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm , we'll hear about it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh {gap} . {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3008c | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"21",
"80"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation on components design"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"81",
"188"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation on basic functions"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"189",
"316"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation on trend-watching"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"317",
"506"
]
],
"topic": "Technical functions"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"507",
"700"
]
],
"topic": "Material and color design"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"701",
"806"
]
],
"topic": "Buttons functionality and docking station design"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This meeting talked about the conceptual design of the remote control product. Industrial Designer gave the first presentation, stating the personal preference for components designs. User Interface delivered the second. It led to a following discussion about basic function types as well as the size of their buttons. Next, Marketing's presentation identified the three most important aspects of remote design and expressed the focus on the trend on the elder market. As such, the group started to discuss how to meet the satisfaction of different age markets with the design. After that, Project Manager steered the meeting to further questions, including technical functions, material, color design, buttons functionality, and docking station design.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer made a presentation about the personal preference for components design. The remote should have a solid case in plastic and soft rubber and the rubber push-buttons. As for the energy source, the basic battery was better because it was more convenient for remote control users. As for the chip, the simple electronic chip should be available with an LED transmitter. Next, the group came to discuss the possibility of LCDs that had been noted.",
"query": "Summarize the presentation on components design.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"21",
"80"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager thought the skip buttons and the volume buttons, the two most basic functions, should be designed larger. In this way, the simplicity of the remote could also be accentuated.",
"query": "What did the Project Manager think about button sizes when talking about basic functions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"133",
"176"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing indicated the three most important findings: fancy look-and-feel, innovative technology, and high ease of use. As the fruits and vegetable theme and sponge material remained trendy that year, the group turned to discuss how to combine the fancy themes with the design and find a proper balance between the elder market and the young market, the specific topics including the color design, the possibility of related symbol and pictures, and the location of business logo.",
"query": "Summarize the presentation on trend-watching.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"189",
"316"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer wanted an LCD that could be applied to show program information, which was also trendy if colored. However, this idea was disagreed by other group members for the following reasons. First, a big LCD screen was too expensive. Second, most users read the information on TV and the Internet instead of the remote. Next, LCD had a vulnerable feature and was also too functional to match the basic design concept. Moreover, for User Interface suggested that the design required only one specialty, LCD was not that necessary when the group had already decided on the docking station.",
"query": "Why did the other group members disagree with Industrial Designer when talking about the LCD display?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"328",
"506"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager thought titanium was considerable and mentioned several possibilities, such as the complete titanium design that was trendy. User Interface disagreed, pointing out that titanium was used even more than plastic. Other shortages considered included making users' hands a bit sweaty and becoming quite cold in winter.",
"query": "What was the discussion about completely titanium design when talking about materials?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"576",
"581"
],
[
"601",
"607"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The group decided to have only the basic function buttons, including numbers button, power button, skip button, volume button, mute button, teletext button, and menu button.",
"query": "What was the decision of the functionalities of buttons?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"699",
"736"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay , all set ? Welcome to the conceptual design meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The agenda . The opening . I'll again be the secretary and make minutes , take minutes , uh and it will be three presentations , just like the last meeting . So um , {vocalsound} who wants to start off ? Technical uh designer again ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Again .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah . Uh , before we begin it , I want to say I've I've put the minutes of the uh second meeting in the shared folder , but they're still not uh quite okay . It uh it uh still some technical difficulties so the the first part of the minutes are very hard to read , because there are two documents that uh were layered over each other .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh , from now on I won't use my pen anymore , so will be p just {vocalsound} ordinary keyboard .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , may be better , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Keyboard work . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it {gap} will will be more uh easy for you to read the minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , when we talk about uh components design , um it's really about the material and the {disfmarker} and uh uh really the stuff we build uh the remote controls of . Um , a remote control consist of uh components and the components of a remote control consist of uh properties and material . We have to choose th uh these uh wisely and it could affect uh uh a kind of grow of {disfmarker} in uh in buying uh the remote controls . Um , the components of a remote control are of course uh the case . Uh the properties of the case , um it has to be solid uh in hard material like uh hard plastic uh with soft rubber for uh falling and and uh uh {disfmarker} yeah , it feels uh good in your hand .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm the buttons has to be uh solid too , and the material is soft rubber . Uh I've got a uh email from the possibilities of Real Reaction . Um uh they're telling me that um when we build uh a remote control of um of plastic or rubber , the uh buttons have to be uh rubber too . Mm {disfmarker} It's okay . Yeah . I when we use a rubbled {disfmarker} a doubled curved case , we must use a rubber push-buttons to {disfmarker} uh the the rubber double-curved case is a is a t uh three-dimensional uh curve in the in the design , which is uh necessary when we want to be trendy . Uh {disfmarker} Um",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the energy source , uh I've got a lot of possibilities for that too . Um , uh the basic battery , which I thi prefer because of its uh its non uh non-depending of of of uh um {disfmarker} Uh here you have to have a hand uh {disfmarker} yeah , kinetic uh energy . Also in uh this one , like in the watches , but a remote control can lie on a table for a day , and then you push uh a button and {disfmarker} so you don't have to uh walk with it all the all the time . Mm , solar cells are also uh a bit weird for uh remote controls .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um uh also the case material , uh I think that plastic is the is the best with rubber , because uh wood or titanium would also be a bit weird .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh titanium is probably trendy , I think . {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's true , I guess . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , maybe a little bit expensive .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , they don't tell anything about the cost of uh titanium .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um the chip {disfmarker} uh the chip set uh and the board is uh all off the shelf . Also , the speaker in the remote control , when we want to retrieve it . Um , the base station is also off the shelf , all the materials and the components are uh just available in uh in our uh factory . Mm , I've told about uh the three first points . Mm , the simple electronical chip uh is is available uh with the LED transmitter uh transmitter . Uh , it's all uh off the shelf and even the speaker and the wireless retriever are all uh available in our company . Um , another possibility . I uh yeah , I looked up on was uh the L_C_D_ displays . Could be uh something special to our uh remote control , and it's possible , but it only cost a bit more , but maybe it can be uh within the limits of twenty five Euros .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Twelve and a half . Actually {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , production cost .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I th I got an email with uh some examples and it {disfmarker} these were were the most trendiest one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You see uh a covers , which can be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What are those , t tooth uh brushes , or so",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um , I don't know . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it's actually kind of uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "well , it resembles the design I had in mind for this proj",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You know the the cartoonish {vocalsound} Alessi kind of design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , maybe we can uh bri uh bring a couple of uh couple of types of uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And we can we can steal their ideas .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "maybe a kind of uh whole uh um a whole set of uh different uh remote controls .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we can bring a whole line uh with uh with a {gap} huge variety of uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , it's a possibility , too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh house uh stuff .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Different colours also .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Like uh {vocalsound} maybe radios and uh television also uh in this in this {disfmarker} in the same style , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh-uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , that'll be for the future , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Next time we're here . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , because we have to uh {disfmarker} we have to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we have to bring the logo and all the stuff uh back into it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Definitely .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Thank you . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . That's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , I shall go to the next slide . Um",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "um , I still don't have any information about user requirements .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I was thinking about just uh the basic functions and I got uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , we decided upon that in the last meeting . Didn't we ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but then wh I don't know when there are new user requirements .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay . Well , tha I didn't receive any new requirements or somethi",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I ha I ha I have the I have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "nothing .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "no , but we decided to use only b basic functions only .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I have here a couple of basic functions I could think of .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno if they're {disfmarker} maybe a little bit more , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well we {disfmarker} maybe we can think of that later . W just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "these are the ones you already summed up in the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I I uh {vocalsound} well , I pointed them out here , just to make it a little bit easier .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um Another function uh is {disfmarker} of course we already discuss it on the side . Um , I don't know what costs of it . Uh , I've no idea about it . Uh , I was also looking for what you said , for {disfmarker} I got an email uh uh about uh L_C_D_ in in in front of the remote control . I don't know if that's a good idea , or maybe it's a little bit too much for twelve and a half . Production .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If we got already uh something like a base .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That might get redundant also maybe . I don't know what kind of information it would {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I don't know . I d I uh ju I was just thinking about it . Then I got a pop-ups to go to the meeting . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , it's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we can bring t uh uh teletext to the t {vocalsound} to the remote control . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Then you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} a little uh too {disfmarker} {vocalsound} A little bit {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and then you've got a flag s {vocalsound} Very big R_C_ . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} That's not {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It was not a good idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A little bit too big , I think . Exactly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , yeah . Well , the functions are are not more to discuss , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's it's just the base things we already discussed that the {disfmarker} no V_C_R_ or that kind of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh , so that's very easy . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you do mention the next and previous uh button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , that's next channel . I mean {gap} next channel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Next channel , previous channel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay , o okay okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} oh , I I got an email with {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with an uh a remote control with a base .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , it's uh just an idea . And I um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh thinked of the button sizes and I'm not sure uh if they have to be big or uh just small {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you're the expert . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it depends on the function .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , I'm not a e I'm the expert for user-friendly , but not for trendiness .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , if you save uh {disfmarker} Perhaps uh s tiny buttons aren't user-friendly , then we wouldn't im implement that of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay , that's your point . Um , yeah . Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I've nothing to {vocalsound} s",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , w when we only use basic functions , we have the possibility to make the buttons larger .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , that's right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , with a little bit larger , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I thought so , but maybe with the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think we already agreed upon the fact that the the the skip buttons and the cha and the volume buttons , th th those two have {disfmarker} yeah , they have to be large .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that groups .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I mean th th the the two two basic buttons , you know , the {disfmarker} to skip channels and to uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Large ? Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker} yeah , I don't know why , but I think that is {disfmarker} that's t trendy too ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Most {disfmarker} the most used uh buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Those are probably the the th",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because that's the mo it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} you know , it's uh acc acc um accentu uh , how do you say it ? It puts an extra accent on the the on the simplicity of our remotes to j to make these two most basic functions extra big , like t",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "True . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Those are probably the b four most most used buttons on the th in the remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And you want to acc accentuate that , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You did the research .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's from your research . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sorry ? Yeah , sure . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh , that was all y",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "uh personal preference I didn't have .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I didn't had any time left .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No uh , that's coo it's cool .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You don't care . No , {vocalsound} sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Go away .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's there .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Come on .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , click on it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Couple time .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , great . Well , I've done some research again about trends on the internet . Um I've done some investigation , and uh well I uh got some information from fashion watchers from Paris and uh Milan . {vocalsound} Some uh some findings {disfmarker} the most important thing is fancy look and feel of the remote control . Uh , well , we were going to imply that , so that's nice . The second important thing is uh innovative technology in the R_C_ . Uh , our market really likes really likes that . And uh the third point there in this uh order if {disfmarker} of importance , the third point , is a high ease of use . And uh , well , for the idea , I've put some trends uh for the market of elderly people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Dark colours , simple recognisable shapes . So we probably won't do that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The younger market likes uh {disfmarker} Well , {gap} the {gap} themes of of this year are uh surprisingly fruits and vegetables and spongy material .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I found this image , which is uh {disfmarker} Well , it symbolises the idea of fruits and vegetables . I don't see the spongy part in it . But with a little bit of fancy {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well maybe c {vocalsound} then we have to do something with Sponge Bob then . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Exactly . I got some ideas {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh well , yeah , pictures isn't really good word , but um",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "some symbols of fruits or vegetables maybe . Uh , catchy colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Fruit is uh yellow , green , red , whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , remote controls in in catchy colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't stroke with the with the dark colours .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , no , we don't want dark colours .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Not the dark colours ? Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No , I just put them there to uh , yeah , uh for general idea .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh , the docking st",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "uh I think the spongy material is is very irritating for the uh remote control itself . But to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} To implement some spongy thing , maybe we can do it in the in the docking station . At the bottom of the docking station or whatever . And uh , we could bring one line with a dark colour uh to um uh p uh yeah {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "uh uh v how do you say ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For diversity or something . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , also a bit for elderly people who are a little bit crazy and want {vocalsound} maybe want a little younger design but still the dark colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , how uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean it it it reaches a different market uh , but it it it doesn't cost really much effort to b to uh bring uh like a black R_C_ on the market or whatever . Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But how do we use uh fruits and vegetables in Christ's {vocalsound} sake with {vocalsound} remote control ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , but I I I think that uh our design already resembles so a piece of fruit .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , there's there's always a",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , make it a banana ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's like a pear or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well there there's always empty space of course on a remote control . I mean I think this part of the R_C_ uh well {vocalsound} the upper the upper part or whatever is uh is not not used with buttons , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , I don't think you have to do it like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So you you can put some fruity things {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it that doesn't have to remind you , you know , like explicitly of s our f of a of a specific piece of fruit , but just , you know , like the the the the round curves .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , of course not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And so y I I think this {disfmarker} y it already sem resembles uh something like a pear to me or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Especially i",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but th {vocalsound} yeah , but that {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . Yeah , exactly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If we make it little bit greenish .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You do get the idea , eh ? The fruity kind of round {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah uh uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A {vocalsound} and we could use {vocalsound} one of these for the uh w what is it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh {disfmarker} yeah , I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Grapes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh , this is a b yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Isn't {disfmarker} Wha whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But d don't we need a creative artist or something like that to m make it to feel like a a a a vegetable or fruit ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . Of course we have uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we have a very big uh the s",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Well , w we can uh {disfmarker} w we can we can produce multiple uh multiple things .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For a big team of artists . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Of d design team , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This is then the uh pear . I don't know the English word , so forget it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It's pear , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And um , maybe , yeah , a b a banana is uh is n {vocalsound} not easy for a remote control , but m yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh but I think we don't have to make",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we can't make all uh ten designs . We have to make one design I th I I think .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , but I think it's it's already what we were were up to .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mayb maybe two or three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it's {disfmarker} it doesn't have to resemble uh what I already said , a specific piece of fruit , but just , you know , like a fruity thing going on .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . No sure , but but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it's {disfmarker} it looks fruity to me .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "B but that's great , and and and what I was {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh , but I do like the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "what what I was saying , the catchy colours {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , I do like uh the f uh to {disfmarker} the idea of making a a y uh , a catchy colour design and a d because I do {disfmarker} I think a dark colour would be nice too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But pictures of fruit , vegetables vegetables {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it's too much , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But , we we have to um {disfmarker} There have to be the the the the firm colours , our own uh colours has to be in it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh not really . Pictures was a was a bad word , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but what are the {disfmarker} This is yellow .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well we c yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yellow , a Real Reaction .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , you can put a logo on top of it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I don't think our our company colours are this fashionable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we can if if we got our docking station over here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We uh f",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , it's really fruity . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I can't draw with this thing , but I'll try .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A yellow do",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "If this is our docking station , we can make our logo over here .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't work . And then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and the button then .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "With a strawberry on top .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , on uh n uh on the bottom of the remote you can do {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , the button button over here or whatever ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . On the front , of course , because else you can't find it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , that were my ideas a little bit .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'll close 'em down . Um , go away .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , you {disfmarker} can you open the conceptual design presentation ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Conceptual design , yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "See what was on the agenda .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Lazy . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The agenda .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is his own remote . Because um , maybe we can start with the technical uh functions ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but I don't think it's there {disfmarker} uh , yeah um , do we want to um use an L_C_D_ display , for example ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , it's nice , of course . But I don't I don't know what to display on it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Only if we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Me neither .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe maybe we can make a T_V_ guide on it , for the channel you're on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it's so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it should be li like this big , and I don't think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , no , only the T_V_ channel with the {disfmarker} with uh with {vocalsound} uh four programmes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think we should do it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can uh zap through them with the page up page down button .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes sure , but it it has to to show an entire title of a programme or at least a q a quite quite large part of it and then you get a very large L_C_D_ screen , because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , it can {disfmarker} On your {disfmarker} No , on your mobile phone you can y you can read text also . So why not on your remote ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker} no . I do I think it's a bit redundant , actually .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it's also not {disfmarker} I don't th even think it it looks s like sexy or something ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well well what would you display on it then ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , programme uh information or or or or g or a guide",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Programme information .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But is it {disfmarker} isn't that a already on T_V_ , a lot of new T_V_s ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "on t on teletext , yes . Also on the internet .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well a lot a lot of T_V_s indeed show uh when you uh zap to a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But you're already watching the T_V_ , you're not gonna watch your remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but you also want to know what's next .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But then we also uh w need to bring out a line of T_V_s which we were planning to ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and we also have to {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but whatever . Because the T_V_ has to send information back to the R_C_ , and I don't know if that's possible .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , that's uh really possible . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes , o of course it's possible ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but you gotta uh implement it in the T_V_s , and I don't think everyone's gonna buy a Real Reaction T_V_ within a month after the release of our uh remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I really understand you want to make your job more exciting {vocalsound} by putting an L_C_D_ in it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I also {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but I I really don't think it's a good n goo because it also doesn't stroke with {disfmarker} we wanted uh c When we talk about the materials , uh it's a good idea to use these plastic materials with soft rubber stuff on it . It was our idea , you know , to give it a more sturdy look and that you ca like you can throw with it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I don't think a L_C_D_ display fits in that image . You know , it's like more vulnerable , and it adds nothing really , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's true , that's true , it breaks f yeah , it it it's not very solid , it's uh frag fragile .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah . You could make it , but it's just {disfmarker} it it doesn't {disfmarker} I don't think it {disfmarker} it's coherent with the design we're after .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No . No . I don't think so ei either .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But that's my opinion . Well , you you y Okay , we can vote for it . You want the L_C_D_ display . I don't want to and {vocalsound} he doesn't , so it's up to him .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} If we wanna {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I dunno .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} . Ah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I've read somewhere that I've got some kind of veto veto uh rights .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} . Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Bastard . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So I can also say {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We can {gap} you away .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But did we skip the {disfmarker} Yeah , you could do {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "m but what what i so what i but do you think we should {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , I don't know . Uh , uh I {disfmarker} i if it's it's a simple p",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We're not even sure what what information we want to display on it . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , that that's right ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No uh um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and uh I also have to think about new functions , maybe buttons or something like that to control it . Kind of L_C_D_ or something or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Y yes , you can use uh buttons uh uh w that are already uh on the remote control for double functions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But how does it display then ? W when I go to the second channel , what what does it show me ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , then you push a button . The title and the information about the programme .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "About that programme ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But but uh {disfmarker} yeah , what he said was right , about the televisions , they have to be uh customised to the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Nah , that's not gonna work .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But maybe in future it will be a giant hit , and when you are the first",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Oh , well uh I've seen it done before .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you have the biggest uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Do you know th like the the bigger rem uh universal remotes , they have d L_C_D_ displays ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but then it's very functional to indicate which {disfmarker} what uh uh device you are controlling . So it's {disfmarker} that that's what I've seen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , you can put uh a little L_C_D_ display on it with uh with lots of information .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true , if you uh {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it just {disfmarker} it j it doesn't doesn't match with the {gap} our whole basic concept .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But uh I haven't thought about it . But whe but when you put a a a transparent uh plastic uh uh screen on top of it , it i it isn't vulnerable .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well yeah , yeah , okay . That's maybe not the most important ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can throw with it and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but it's just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is it fashion ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "When when you put uh maybe a colour L_C_D_ t uh screen on it , it's very special and very trendy to have uh a remote control from {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I don't know . That's not up to you . That's up to market if i if it's trendy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well do you ha do you have to {disfmarker} {gap} You haven't looked after the trendiness of L_C_D_ displays , have you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} Because our our motto is we put fashion {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , I think it's uh I think it's pretty trendy , to be honest , uh but um I don't know if if if {disfmarker} well , I'm coming back to the costs again , but I think uh we gotta build a b pretty cheap design to to stay within our limits . And I think uh especially colour L_C_D_ , which is indeed pretty trendy . But I don't think {disfmarker} Uh , I think it will be too expensive .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But uh I've got a {disfmarker} the email with uh with the possibilities . {vocalsound} And L_C_D_ was a possibility for the remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So why don't we use it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we're gonna {disfmarker} if it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , did it say a price also uh for for uh monogramme uh L_C_D_ or uh coloured L_C_D_ ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , if you want to be trendy you have to be coloured . Coloured {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah really ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you have black and white or something , or grey , that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "if y if you c i",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then uh then you better don't {disfmarker} yeah , d",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I in in two thousand and four you can't uh put something on the market which is a monogramme .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Really . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , but it doesn't sa say anything about a colour or {disfmarker} But , mm , I alf I also got a possibility to put uh a scroll button on it . But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh uh I really don't feel the whole idea of an L_C_D_ display .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I didn't think that {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry . It can't co you cannot convince me . I don't know how {disfmarker} well how to {disfmarker} with you guys , but {disfmarker} I don't really feel it . We already {disfmarker} we're uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's too much uh maybe uh with with the L_C_D_ and the docking station and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we already have the the th th th base station gadgets ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and want {disfmarker} and it {disfmarker} uh uh , do {disfmarker} it has to be a simple design , which sturdy , which soft {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but o on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "W we've we've gotta find a balance , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "With one thing special .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Not a whole package of specialty .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think {disfmarker} I j uh , and really , I don't see how the the L_C_D_ display is gonna add anything , you know , on a design level . Uh , I think it's slicker to have no L_ CEDs .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , when y",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Y we want to {disfmarker} it's simplicity , w you have two big buttons and you can do whatever you want with these two buttons , so you don't need an L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But it look {disfmarker} Yes , but that remote controls are already on the market . The simple {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't fit in our philosophy uh behind the whole remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but but when you want to have something special {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we already have the docking station , which is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes , but you had a picture of it from another company .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And uh the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We have a pear .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} It has to be developed ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} no , but it {disfmarker} that's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that's our that's our killer feature .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's just an it's just an idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's our {disfmarker} what makes it special .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's a it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , it was already made . Tha the remote control on the docking station .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we're gonna develop our own r n docking station .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is that so ? Was it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it wasn't just a prototype ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well uh I uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , he have a picture of it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I dunno .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Exactly , I've never seen it in a store .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , but re we really have to cut this off ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I re I know you {disfmarker} I I I I {vocalsound} I get the idea you really like it , you know , the the L_C_D_ thing , but I I think it's it's not a good idea , and we have already mentioned all the arguments . I don't {disfmarker} uh , do you guys agre How do you guys think ? I d",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it's too much .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's a little too much , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's overdone .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , we s skip the {vocalsound} L_C_D_ display .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry , maybe you can do something if we are at your own place , or make it make it make it happen in your basement or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Democratically .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mayb {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I will rule the world with it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Probably so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . But for the technical part . The m material , I think uh it was a good idea to use the plastic and uh the rubber . Uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , maybe a bit of a cushion is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah , p Exactly . This is what it w Yeah , but it it was already what we're uh we're after , you know , to give it uh , you know , the soft touch in your hands",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , for the spongy uh feel . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "With a spongy Bob feel .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and also to , know , like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that is y the b airbag kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like a b yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can st throw it at your little brother's head .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you just can drop it . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , airbag . If you drop it if you drop it the airbag comes out , yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . No no no , not that comfy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but then we have to look that it uh w uh will not um be too childish to see .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah . Yeah . Okay , that's a that's a good point . And that's why I like the dark t col dark colour bit , you know , because it may be {disfmarker} the design uh , it's uh maybe it is a bit of the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But not black I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's a bit nineties maybe , what we're what we're up to rat fun to this point .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well if if it's fruit and vegetables , it have to be colourful .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's that's true , but but it has to be a little big solid .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , b yeah , that's what w I I was pointing at .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But can we ge uh uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It mustn't be too , n you know , th too overwhelming , then when you put it on your {gap} just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can we combine it or something ? Uh with uh yellow and black ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , maybe so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Make it a bee ? {vocalsound} A bee . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What ? Oh , a bee . Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , uh I don't like the yellow and black combination {gap} . But it is our company colours . Apparently . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {gap} it's our {disfmarker} yeah . We we have to use yellow .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , real real good colours . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't like yellow , and uh maybe {disfmarker} I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , we can as as I",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But that's not really fruity .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "draw really nicely over there . {vocalsound} We can put the logo on our uh on our base station . Uh , yeah . And maybe very very tiny on the remote control itself .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But , i",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but what {disfmarker} uh , what are other tef technical things we have to discuss ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh fronts of the {disfmarker} We can have uh different uh uh fronts of the",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Should we do that ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "telephone .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think you {disfmarker} we should do that . Maybe just bring it out in different colours ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Different fronts .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but not af that you can switch fronts afterwards , that's also too much .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I guess that's that's enough .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "People don't wanna spend more money on their remote {vocalsound} control , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's way too Nokia .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh , you can you can l uh let choose the customer which colour he wants , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Are these designs ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , definitely . Just bring more designs on the market .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , Three three or four uh four uh colours , or something like that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But uh , without {disfmarker} gon uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why not , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay . So , are we through the technical part then ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . So we uh agreed upon uh n uh well , not u unanimously or how you call it , but {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It {disfmarker} this a real uh young young and dynamic uh uh styles .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the {disfmarker} Three to one . {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The materials you uh mentioned in your your personal preferences were all {disfmarker} were quite okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "O o only only the last point your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And tita uh titanium , is {disfmarker} uh is is it a no ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "no titanium's not not out of question , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is {disfmarker} It's just like that , th this titanium .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But also w Yes , b bu but when we use s soft",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But is it possible to use both the the plastic and so uh soft things and t p titanium , as well ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "mm {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Makes it in a homogeneous uh design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , not all , not all of them .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But it it {disfmarker} then it uh {disfmarker} you can't throw it it . It will uh make a huge noise or break other stuff",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} It will it will break other stuff w {vocalsound} when it's plastic , as well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "when you throw with uh titanium {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with your remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No uh ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "titanium is a bit uh it's a bit harder .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , but uh uh , you should ma Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But also on the colours , the young {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , think of the possibilities and make it in {disfmarker} completely titanium . Well would it be more trendy ? More chic ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think it I think it does .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I think titanium nowadays is way more often used than plastic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but a titanium remote control , when you're uh watching T_V_ uh or your hands are a little bit sweaty , and the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "In trendy things .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , o On the other hand , if you want to make fruit {disfmarker} fruity stuff with uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . It's cold in the winter . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I I really like the idea of the the the plastic and the big kind of thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But the question is i then it's , you know , is is {disfmarker} it fits in our s philosophy to make it uh sturdy and simple and uh , know , like uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sports and gaming . Define",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "When you make it titanium , it becomes more like some kind of gadget you actually don't need . And when it's big and plastic , it's like some fun stuff you can always have around . It's always fun to have something big and plastic around .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You have that uh M_P_ three player of Nike , I saw .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Isn't that titanium with a little bit of rubber ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , it's w but it is uh plastic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Isn't it {disfmarker} Is plastic ? Well , it's titanium looking .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , w we can do that on the on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , he is . Here he is . Uh , the {disfmarker} I don't know if you know the M_P_ three player of Nike . 'Kay , uh that that's very uh with rubber , so it's very",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , yeah . Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Yeah , that's beautiful .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I see .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We can make this as a style too .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "rough .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , this is uh just a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , maybe th maybe this is an {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I th I think that's difficult , because uh that's different material , and then you gotta have like uh uh uh two material lines of of of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , we c we can make it from the same kind of plastic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , if it's just a colour uh which you uh which you change then , I guess it's it's nice to have one of these .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , I do like the idea of maybe a t titanium kind {disfmarker} type of body w and then with s plastic colouration {gap} around it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You know , like the the soft stuff ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but I don't know if it's possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't have the information . Uh , I I didn't got it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But you can't make the plastic give uh the ti titanium look .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But make it just like shiny .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , true .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we should uh shou",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like the M_P_ three player .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , maybe that's good idea , yeah . But if you want to la uh yeah , last longer than two weeks or something like that , you can maybe {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh and",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "maybe we sh should we t {gap} I don't know if we should talk about {disfmarker} uh , how how much time have we got left ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , in a lot of other uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Forty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What time does {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "in a lot of other product uh categories like uh even in b in bags industry . Uh , they began with uh t typical uh leather bags , but then they became stylish , with all all si all sort of colours , and w kind of fon {disfmarker} of uh of fronts , like we can use on the telephone and it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like Eastpack uh began a revolution with it with all this uh kind of bags and and colours and and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} You putting in different colours .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , and and styles .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "They have uh also uh a kind of uh um uh roses on it , a and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yeah , but w yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , it is . It's a possibility . But , let's think about the bas",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then we can always uh use the same design for a greater resemblance , but with new uh with new colours , new {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes . New prints on it . Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But wha th our basic idea {disfmarker} y I mean , you gonna {disfmarker} we're probably gonna have like two type of materials , like the d d b the plastic uh enclosure and then the the pads that surround it . And and pro and lights . We have to incorporate the lights too . But , uh do w gonna {gap} gonna {disfmarker} are we going to give it a two-tone colour look , like the the plastic mould is in in one colour and the s the cushion pads around it are in another colour ? Is that the idea ? Is that a good idea ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How do you mean ? Th th the uh base in a in another {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How many colours are we {disfmarker} how many colours are we gonna {disfmarker} we're uh uh f uh f",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The rubber .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Only five minutes left , by the way . How many colours are we gonna give it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Like two-tone colour ? T",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There there are three uh components three components type .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh no , not too much I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You have the buttons , the the case uh itself , and the rubber and th",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How the buttons {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think maybe the case itself should be in one colour and then the rubber of the buttons , {vocalsound} and the cushions as well should be in another colour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or you just make uh one colour , uh maybe with a a z a kind of like a big wave or something like uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but not more than {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In in another colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , yeah , it's {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not more than two colours I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's a g a little bit too flashy .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , definitely not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we should talk about it on a l in a later meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , or or when you use the buttons as black , it {disfmarker} you can use two colours as well uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , definitely .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . But we have to uh think of some other uh important things .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} oh yeah , the the functionalities of the the buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The funct yeah , I was I was thinking about th the st do we still want a joystick idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I think that's too vulnerable .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think this is okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the {disfmarker} so we have the basic . Then we have the numbers . We have the power button . We have we have a teletext button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The volume , teletext and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And maybe want to access a a menu or something . Most T_V_s have a menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but that's that's {disfmarker} I was thinking that's gotta be on the television .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I think you ha I really need a menu button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah yeah , b",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's just i the only button {disfmarker} only {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but wha what kind of menu ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You know , I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is uh {disfmarker} isn't that different from every television ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No , I think most T_V_s have an uh a menu nowadays to access the uh uh screen settings . And so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} Yeah , if it's c if {disfmarker} Yeah , I think it's okay to to add a menu button for uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But that that covers all the all the other settings . It covers everything then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and if the T_V_ doesn't have a menu , then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But then you have to put uh up and down and uh left and right {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , you can use the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can put that on the two eight four and six or whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And you al can also use the normal skip buttons for that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Th in that way we have like only the numbers , the power button , skip and volume , and then uh uh ten uh rem",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , yeah . A mute and a teletext and a menu .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh yeah , mute . A teletext and a menu , and then then i that's it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mute .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's all we need .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's all .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , uh another stuf some stuff {vocalsound} about the the the design of the docking station .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Great . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , that's not mu not much functions . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Something important about a s uh , no , uh which sh uh should remind us of the remote itself , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , definitely .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , in one colour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Are we gonna do something with the uh spongy thing there ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just use {disfmarker} I think the spongy thing already um comes forward in the in the in the cushions , pads and things on the s uh side .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And we will make it spongy and {disfmarker} and uh and uh well , the fruity thing is just the shape should be fru i did {disfmarker} I think this is kind of fruity , you know . Just round shapes with uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's kinda fruity , and with th with catchy colours uh uh w",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but we're gonna have to {disfmarker} we really have to think {disfmarker} I think colours is very important , because it has to be flashy , but {disfmarker} and but it d it doesn't have to be annoying , that when you uh , know , some things is just over the top , and when you have it on your table for more than two weeks , you {disfmarker} {gap} it just gets annoying , because it's so big and flashy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , definitely .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it has to be some level of subtlety , but we have to {disfmarker} still have to think of how we manage to uh to get to that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Guess we're through then .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I guess so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But we {disfmarker} I think also we just {disfmarker} so we have to do something with colour but also , I I think we have to keep the dark colour thing in mind . I think that's uh adds to the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "too much colour maybe m um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Too much colour , i it uh {disfmarker} when you got it in a living room , it's too much maybe",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But our des design experts will uh work that out .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yea yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": ". It has to be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well I think the meeting will be over within a minute .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we will wrap up .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or is there anything we'd like to discuss ? That's right .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I guess not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do you , guys ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well , you will read the minutes uh in the {disfmarker} you can find them in the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "In the shared folder .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "pro probably . Yeah {disfmarker} uh no , for su for sure because I'm will now type them out .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What are we going to do now ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , y yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You'll see in you email , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I don't know . I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I hope so . And the other thing is that you don't have kind of prototype or something like that . You see a kinda prototype you can {disfmarker} a little bit more uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I will make one in the next uh twenty minutes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Construct one , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {gap} toilet paper roll and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With you laptop ? {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh my God .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright , shall we get back to work ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yep . I was waiting for the l last message , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Great .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well you are . We're not .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Bastard .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Back to the pen .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You lazy {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
}
] |
TS3008d | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"256"
]
],
"topic": "Remote control prototype introduction"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"214",
"539"
]
],
"topic": "Product evaluation discussion"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"550",
"983"
]
],
"topic": "Product cost discussion"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Firstly, User Interface and Industrial Designer introduced the prototype of remote control based on the previous discussion of its form, material and the colour. The prototype was a pretty simple design with an obvious company logo on it and two buttons in the middle. Secondly, Marketing designed an evaluation test under the guidance of the advantages of its main features discussed before and the team gave one to seven points to each feature of the product to see if the prototype would meet the original requirements and goals. Lastly, the team calculated the cost of the prototype and found that it was not easy to land on the exact budget. After trying to incorporate as many functions as the team could for a while, the team decided to use regular chips, normal batteries and a combination of cheap materials and fancy ones, which made the budget under control.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The prototype was a pretty simple design with an obvious company logo on it and two buttons in the middle. There were also power buttons and nine others for switching channels with the incorporation of the menu and teletext. In the middle there was a part of hard material, a bit of hard plastic with a light behind it. In terms of materials and color, the team designed one colour for the plastic enclosure and one colour for the rubber buttons. Also, the team agreed that the company logo, together with the standard color could be the company's identity. Last but not least, the current device did not include the docking station but the Marketing expressed his interest towards it and the team decided to reconsider it in the following parts of the meeting.",
"query": "How did User Interface and Industrial Designer introduce the prototype of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"8",
"231"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing recalled the market trend and collected images based on the device the team had designed. For each of Marketing's questions, the team would give one to seven points to each feature of the product and the lower the points the better the feature.",
"query": "How did Marketing design the product evaluation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"257",
"265"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The team agreed that the prototype had a moderate appearance and it really depended on the individual taste of each customer. Some might find the device really fancy. However, the function that enabled the user to design for its own front look stood out since this could add value to users' favour towards personalities. The team also came to an agreement that the remote control's relevant buttons were prominently visible and relevant to each other, making the device easy to use. There was also a speaker incorporated into the device, solving the problem that sometimes it was out of sight. Meanwhile, the innovation of this device which was without a LCD display or any other technology required functions was not that satisfactory.",
"query": "What did the team discuss during the product evaluation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"214",
"463"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Firstly, the team agreed that only one battery is enough and using kinetic was not a must since it would be too expensive and useless. Secondly, one chip was enough and they were going to choose one from different types of regular chips. However, as the team found out they could incorporate more valuable components, the team decided to use one advanced chip for now. In terms of the material used on the device, the team decided to use a combination of rubber and plastic with one small part used in one special materia, like titanium, as well as a special color. Moreover, the teletext was discarded and the docking station was added. As for the infrared LED, although it was originally presented on Marketing's powerpoint, the team agreed that it was not helpful. Later, the team found that regular chips were enough for the scroll-button and only the LCD display required the advanced ones, so again the team came back for the regular chip and cut some costs. In the end, the team incorporated solar cells for the battery.",
"query": "What did the team discuss about the product cost?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"550",
"983"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay , welcome to the detailed design meeting . Again , I'm gonna take minutes . Oh , we're gonna have a prototype presentation first .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , who's gonna give the prototype presentation ? You two guys ? Okay . Go ahead .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {vocalsound} {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} coffee .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , we've made a prototype . Um , we've got uh {vocalsound} uh our aspects from the last meeting . Uh , especially we looked at the form , material and the colour . Um , we've uh drawn here the p prototype . The logo is uh is uh {vocalsound} is pretty uh {vocalsound} obvious to see on the on the remote control ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but it is necessary when you want to build your uh company f to a level higher . Um , {vocalsound} our interface elements , there are shown in the in the drawing . Maybe you can uh point them uh {disfmarker} The functions .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , well the uh {disfmarker} all the functions are discussed uh {disfmarker} I think the most of the functions are uh uh obvious . Uh , it's a little bit . Uh , power button . Uh then the the the nine uh channels .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh the volume uh uh at the side , and the other side is the programmes . And then we had uh just uh two buttons , we place them in the middle , uh the menu , and for the teletext",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh no , the the the mute button misses now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {disfmarker} I thought that was th",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright , I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do y do you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , the mute button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "did we want to have a m mute button ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But uh that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's uh here then , in the middle .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright , and uh you gotta point out which is the volume um uh button and which is the programme button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , um",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , yeah mo uh mo",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we've disc",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well most of them are right-handed .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Most of the users",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but you you gotta make it clear on the {disfmarker} on {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well , I don't have time in uh anymore on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , y there there will be a p a little a little P_ on that and a little uh {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and a and a triangle on that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , just progr programme above , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Next to that I kinda miss a zero actually .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Wait , there's {disfmarker} was one thing I wanted to ask .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , there are different ways for remote controls to uh {vocalsound} do uh like",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh d I call it teens and twenties . Uh , y th th th the two numbers .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "All n no , that's um {vocalsound} kinda dependent on the television .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , true , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's a television . Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but do we have {disfmarker} do we need extra buttons ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} for example some uh some have to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh I think so .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes , you have you have a lot of standard buttons that has to be uh on it , uh th with the one and a double uh uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think you should add {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Zero ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A cross , or whatever . Yeah , line .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but you don't you don't actually need them ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "May maybe here ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "becau b l a lot of remote controls work that y when y that you when you fir you push the one first , then you have a couple of seconds {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And then a second .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , that's dependent on the television .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , I don't think so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , you have televisions , then you have to , you know , you have to uh press {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I do know so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is it depending on television ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nah , I don't think so really ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because you have a {disfmarker} I know some remote controls that don't have these buttons , but you still can , know , obviously you can still select the twenty {disfmarker} uh a number in the twenty or in the ten .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but but a lot {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but uh uh no uh remote control nowadays are um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they come with the television . Or actually , the other way around .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , I think {disfmarker} uh I really think it's n",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because you can {disfmarker} when when you put a button on it with like one and uh then a dash , it's the same thing as when you just push the one ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because it i it first gives you the functionality of that that uh separate button you also had to uh apply .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well {disfmarker} but su {vocalsound} If {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "some televisions don't accept uh that that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , because that's i it's for television . It's exact the same thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , no , but s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No no no . So some television respond differently . Look , if uh i i",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , listen listen . When you push the button , the remote control gives a signal . I in th in the first place it gives a signal which it would also send when you put a separate button on it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yes , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The one with dash , that signal gi and when y whe when you don't push another button on the remote control within five seconds , then the remote control gives a signal for channel one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it works that way , really .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it it it works uh if you haven't got uh a special button for it , uh if you push a one , then on your television there will appear a one and a a line , which is an empty space .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but it's exact the same {gap} that w would appear when you put a separate button {disfmarker} push a separate button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but some some old televisions uh you have to uh click on uh a special button , uh then you go to a a next level , you can push two buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but you don't underst uh you don't understand my point .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep . {vocalsound} True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it's exact the same thing when y",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You want {disfmarker} Yes , but some television don't support it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , but then they would a would also support that button , because it's the same thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But the ex",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Listen , with {disfmarker} that that's that special but button {gap} you're talking about , eh ? That's just a signal to recei ju they send a t signal to the v tv T_V_ that they have to put a one in {disfmarker} on your screen and a dash , which you can pu so you can uh still put another number on it . When you don't have that separate button , and you push y one , it's exactly the same thing . Do y you {disfmarker} the remote control gives that same signal as it would give when you only had {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , s some some televisions need the input first uh and and you c",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "a remote can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But you give the input .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so they need {disfmarker} no , they need {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You push the one . That's the same thing as the button with the one and it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , that's not true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yes it it is .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's simply not true . It's simply not true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Think about it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You uh you can wai when you push the one you can show on the telly a one and just a dash , and then wait uh two uh seconds or something {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it's the same thing what happens and a g remote control gives another signal after five seconds that is just one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , remote control doesn't give signal after five seconds . Remote control is a stupid thing . If you push a button , it sends it immediately to to the television .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true . Yeah , but I m uh but it's {disfmarker} I I know for sure that some televisions that w th th the remote control supplied , only ha has the c these buttons with a one and a dash and a two and a dash , but when you use a bu a n remote control that doesn't sport these buttons , it still works .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But okay , we we'll impl",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , definitely not . Definitely not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We'll discuss them in the usability lab .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , we'll apply them then for now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh eva evaluation .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know uh I don't know if if it's it's necessary .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , app just apply them next to the zero , the one and the two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so . Yeah , for now , if we don't know for sure whether {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the button for the SCART uh audio video uh external input .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ach .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , you can access that uh via zero , and then minus , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay . {vocalsound} What I said about uh the remote control sending another signal , that that might not be true ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but I still think i it it {disfmarker} all T_V_s in some ways support it , I don't know . I think it's more c is m maybe we don't {disfmarker} uh we both don't really understand how it i how it really works ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , no .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I think there's more to in than wha than what you just said .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , remote control sends one signal at one button uh press .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I do think that uh m T_V_s support mur multiple kind of remote controls . M",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , some {disfmarker} N some televisions when when you want to go further than uh ten {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Th won't work wi with uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , you have to you have to uh give the television uh two or more signals .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "to have that special button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "When you uh press one button , you give one signal . And the older televisions need more signals to go a level higher . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well we'll see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When you make the technology that that it will uh give more signals , it could work , but {disfmarker} Just a basic idea of of of the most uh {disfmarker} most y most common uh and simple uh operations on the remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . I kinda miss the docking station .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . It's here on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah , uh there's nothing {disfmarker} I think it's pretty basic ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We came uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "the the {disfmarker} there's no fu",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "there's one there's one button ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No nothing really trendy about it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's wha there's there's there's one function and that's n the one button when you want to find it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But maybe we can maybe we can make the docking station uh uh a bit standard for for uh the other products we sell ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because Real {vocalsound} Real Reaction sells more products than only remote controls . So maybe we can uh use the docking station , for example , uh M_P_ three players or or uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh hearing devices .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think that's very difficult , because of different shapes of uh uh devices .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but when you put that same volt voltages on it , you can put uh {disfmarker} when the when the when uh o the the the lowest part of it , when it's o the same as the other products , you can put it all on the same uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , of course . Mm-hmm . Well it it got it {disfmarker} it has got to fit into the shape , of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but we can make {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The technology and the voltage can be the same . That's uh that's true . But uh i if you all make the m having a bottom like this , then they all fit .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , we can make uh make the most lowest part all the same .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When when the the recharger has a has a bit what points out , we can place all on top of it . Just have to be big enough for the biggest {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but uh I I g Shouldn't it fall then ? It {disfmarker} isn't going to fall down ? {vocalsound} That's a bit uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , when you make it large enough no it it will not .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah , I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But then it's a little bit {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , but if if {disfmarker} like this , I'll I'll point it out , if you got uh a a a base a base like this ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it's just an idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I won't draw it really . If you got a base which is uh as big as this {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But it's flat it's flat as as this , so we can p make all the products as flat as this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can . But i i i it's backwards .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah sure , but if you got if you got a tiny player , it can {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but when you make uh uh a bit of big {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But it's it's backwards . It's leaning . It's leaning backwards , I think , in the in the docking station .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Uh , wha what you could do if you uh {disfmarker} from the bottom {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's text . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "oh , right , help .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , you could make like a hole in it , you know , of uh {disfmarker} in in the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , little holer {disfmarker} littler {disfmarker} Uh , little products go deeper in it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That i that is possible , yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well let's ha let's talk about the docking station later , because uh maybe we have we have to uh consider the docking station anyway , because we have some uh cost issues {vocalsound} still to come .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure , you're right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . And uh uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But we have to look n I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the f the look and feel would be great on this uh remote control , because uh you always uh will uh pick up the remote control in the in the smallest uh area .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't like the colours . Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then your uh left thumb of uh {disfmarker} your right thumb is uh near the programme uh button , which is the most common used uh function , and all the other buttons are available for your uh thumb .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's it's it's really good design .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Alright .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . That's it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , uh on the side uh there will be a strip of rubber , and in the middle uh there is uh a hard uh a hard material , a bit hard plastic with a light uh behind it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The light . Okay . And other lights ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think added lights are gonna be a problem too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , we can make also n neon lights on it , or or the buttons that can make uh light on it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , o on the on the front . Yeah , okay . Maybe the uh the logo .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} lights ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But , it will also uh uh use batteries ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , why not ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and do we want to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Of course .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . For now , uh this is uh is good enough .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , what was uh on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker} all the aspects of the interface buttons were uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but in the {disfmarker} oh yeah , the colour , because we're gonna use uh one colour for the the plastic enclosure and one colour for the rubber , isn't it ? Then we're gonna do the buttons in the i are we're gonna have rubber buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And they're be a {disfmarker} {gap} they'll be in the same colour as the rubber on the side .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , in the same colour as the side .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think I think that'll be good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . And I think we should use a a darker colour for the um plastic , and maybe some more m brighter and flashy stuff {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , maybe we can use on the on the lights on the side we can use uh uh multiple uh lights ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so it will uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we'll talk about the lights later . 'Cause I also don yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's depends on the costs and such . But uh , and we have to agree uh upon the exact colours ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but may I dunno if that's important , but we'll talk about that later . Okay , for now this is this is okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We will .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , the next p y you gonna give a presentation too ? Uh , I have to see the agenda .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , uh yeah , I I'm gonna do something right there , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Detail design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We gotta do that on the right {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the most {disfmarker} right-most screen , because the leftmost {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Evaluation criteria .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep , that's me .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright . I will be needing that image , so leave it please . Um {disfmarker} Go away . Right , we're gonna evaluate that design according to a few points . {vocalsound} Um , we g the four of us are going to do that um together .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I wanna have a colour over here , come on . Right , the remote {vocalsound} is not ugly , a bit weird sentence , but the positive things has to be on the left , so I {vocalsound} said not ugly instead of ugly .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , what would you say , we we gotta give points to uh to all of these to evaluate uh that design , and please forget the drawing skills of these guys .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The remote control is not ugly . How do you feel ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think four maybe would be appropriate , because it's {disfmarker} Yeah , maybe it really depends on taste . Uh , I mean it's kind of {gap} , our design . It's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so if maybe a lot of people find it really ugly , you know , o other people find it really cool .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Background colour .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know or uh I don't know how you {disfmarker} Casting . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think I think the the fronts will give it a more uh uh uh less uglier uh side , because you can uh make it in your own {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How do you guys feel ? The different designs .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yes , you can make it in your own uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "more to your own personality or or house style .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we d we didn't {disfmarker} we're we're not planning to use fronts , I believe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , not not fronts , but different designs .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "With a colour a co a colours . Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , not fronts . Different designs . Different colours maybe , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And that's still uh uh , yeah , is is uh is a little personal touch , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but {disfmarker} Oh , maybe we should do three or something that w you know , our {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What ? Yeah , wha wha what would you uh guys uh think ? Personally .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or forty . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We can make it a one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Personally . Yes , but what is it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think two or three .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Guido ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I agree .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two or three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um , I uh I go for the positive . So I go for two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I was {disfmarker} I was thinking about three , so I guess",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I was thinking about four , so I think three is uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "three is uh a bit uh {disfmarker} oh , what am I doing ? I'll mark it . The remote control's uh uh that n makes uh zapping easy .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah well , let that {disfmarker} let's make that a one . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Two . One . One .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Antek , you agree ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay yeah , I'll I'll agree .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's one thing for sure .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . You're not Antek .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm the I'm the usability , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I totally agree . The remote control the remote control's relevant buttons are prominently visible .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , two or a one , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's something we really put work into .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's all about the buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I would say a one because uh every button is uh uh relevant . {vocalsound} And our {disfmarker} oh yeah , it's a b yeah . Yeah ? Alright . That's a one ? You agree ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The remote control hasn't got too much redundant or unneeded buttons . I think we totally succeeded there .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well maybe a two , because of the menu button or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well menu {disfmarker} Yeah , maybe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true . That's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And telete",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Also , the the the buttons of the one , the two , the the digits ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we don't know if the {disfmarker} uh they're necessary .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "o they're used uh uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} the the {disfmarker} yeah , m well , you d you've got a point .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think a two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , true . Yeah , I agree .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Can {disfmarker} yes , three , two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Came a long way , but not {disfmarker} we didn't not uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Two or three ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But you can't make a remote control without them ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Two ? Antek .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because we got {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Nay that that that's true , that's true . They're definitely needed .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , w w it can also always be more simplistic , but two is {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} we put it on a two ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The remote control has got a really trendy look .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes . A one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh a t I think a two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maarten .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah , y i it's hard to say from this picture .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We {disfmarker} we've tried to make it uh the the best trendy look uh ever .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ever , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Guido .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I do think it's more {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I will I will make it a three , because uh {disfmarker} yeah . I I th",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I do think that it's more trendy than beautiful .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh I agree . I agree .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So so I think maybe it has to score higher uh on this than on the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . True , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I was planning to give it a two , uh where I give the not ugly uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "A th a three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "oh , yeah , that's true . You agree on the two ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I i uh when you compare to the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Great . Remote control hasn't got too much redundant or unneeded buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh uh what's the difference with {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I copied that one . Well , uh forget that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} Go away . Remote control has got innovative technology implanted .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No . We're not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "well , maybe the the the {disfmarker} on the side .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , not L_C_D_ , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we uh {disfmarker} {gap} you mean the rubber stuff ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and the light .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we have t we have to talk about the lights uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And the light maybe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But that that's not innovative .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I don't u also it's also really not innovative ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Lights lights are {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , I g",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's more {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's not {disfmarker} seven ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , six . Or seven maybe , {vocalsound} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , six . No , six .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or six .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Six .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Why uh why not a seven ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Six .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , mine is seven .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because we've tried to make it a little bit innovative ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but it but it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's uh depends on the on the maybe {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "With the lights it {disfmarker} it's it's kind of future {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , I think I think actually it's a seven maybe , but there's nothing innovative about it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you think the lights are innovative ? Well , it's n true . Uh , I agree ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But still you can retrieve it when it's when it's gone , with the {disfmarker} with {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "m but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Innovative in generally or just f original for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'll {disfmarker} Yeah , you you didn't draw the docking station . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {vocalsound} The docking station is a is a little bit innovative .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "N no no ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it it's {disfmarker} I think I think with its {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "t {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A docking station is innova",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I mean the dock station , but but uh , I think the the docking station , {vocalsound} it's gonna be a {gap} kind of a problem .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's a part of the remote .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think more m",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} And with the speaker on the {disfmarker} there's also a speaker .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh that {disfmarker} that's n",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , let's leave it open for uh for us later to see what , because we have to reevaluate anyway . Well I i {gap} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No uh , well , the agenda says evaluate now , so I think we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , for now it's a six or a seven uh , sev",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's it's a six .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "six maybe ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Six .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But the retrieval or the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That m f",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I don't I don't know if it's very {vocalsound} inno yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , for the retrieval function . Yeah . I think that's very innovative for a remote control .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , v",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , {gap} how would you innovate a remote control more ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , more through uh like function T_V_ functionalities and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To put it on your head .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "no no , you know what I mean .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You have {disfmarker} {gap} must be innovative technology for remote controls , but more in how you control stuff , not in how you find your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah sure , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah . Yeah , it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I d I definitely don't think it's a five ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's that's {disfmarker} think about it la later on",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Remote control is easy to use .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , as a a one or a two ma uh at least .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , a two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think a two .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "More two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Come on . The remote control hasn't got uh {disfmarker} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , I would have seen {vocalsound} that one before . Oh , you skipped one uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I've just filled {disfmarker} uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Go away .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You like the buttons . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I found twelve questions so much , but it still is ten .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Remote control will be bought by {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It will be bought by people under the age of forty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Definitely .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In in {disfmarker} and comparing with uh people of th of the age above ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No no no . No , just if they if they buy it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , just in general . Yeah , a two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We don't know . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I think I think two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , what do you think ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think two , yeah . I agree . Two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Antek ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , two , but only in c when you compare it with with elderly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , that is not the question . It's just w it will be bought by people under forty .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , that's no comparison .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can {disfmarker} yeah , you can be very picky about it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I don't mean two people .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is just guessing .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah yeah , just make it {disfmarker} we'll make it a two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Make it a two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "W w",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When it succeeds , uh it can get a two , mu",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right , the rem The remote control has recognisable corporate image , colour , logo or slogan .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh no . Yeah . Yeah , you have make an",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We don't have the slogan though .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} slogan is quite obvious {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , the slogan .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh the {disfmarker} oh sorry , no , not not the slogan .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can we see the slogan ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you can put that on the side if {vocalsound} if we would like to .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The logo .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A logo .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Underneath it or something .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , uh encrypted uh with {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and I will I th still think it's gonna be a two or a three .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Are we gonna do that ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} A three . Three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe a three this time .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , a three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Three ? I agree . Because of the slogan {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Remote control's got a basic design intended uh for novice users .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it's a one or a two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , make it a two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Two .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two ? Two . Alright . We gotta add up the scores now to see our total average . Four , five , seven , nine . Forget that . Fifteen , seventeen , twenty one , twenty four , twenty six . Twenty six . It's a two point six .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's not that bad .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Alright , we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and that's mostly the inno",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "when we uh score higher on innovative technology , we would score two ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . True .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "which is uh quite a great score . Okay . Uh , this is {disfmarker} was uh the evaluation ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} This was my evaluation . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because I I still think that the most important part of this meeting still has {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We did a pretty nice job until now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um , is this your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is there something after this uh meeting ? Or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Whatever . Well , I think we gotta fill out another questionnaire .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No . Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Still opened or uh {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , finance . Because um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Shoot .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I received uh a spreadsheet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A five . A five .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I uh actually don't need this presentation , I guess . Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Doesn't matter .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm gonna open the spreadsheet and we're gonna work this out together , because I didn't really fin uh I have a {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Didn't really finish it . Well , we uh {disfmarker} We'll see . We'll stumble upon some problems .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We probably will .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} I probably have already opened it here . {gap} try it again . First of all , the mm all the docking station and costs and such are not included in this list . But let's let's st start with beginning . We include one battery . I i uh I'll explain its {disfmarker} Uh , the the components are listed over here . Uh , price is given . We um {disfmarker} yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The amount , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we we uh indicate the amount of components of the specif specific component , how much we need of them . And then uh , we'll uh calcula Don't watch the number yet . I don't know if it's filled in properly . Okay , we need one battery . One battery . I think one battery is enough .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We don't need kinetic , solar cells , hand dynamo . A s okay , this this is a p first problem . Uh , I think we should know how many simple chips , regular chips {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's it's one one chip , but but you have to choose one from it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . But {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The simple chip is e enough I I think , but with the lights with the lights and the retrieval , it can be uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Where did we find this information ? Was it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I haven't got an idea on on which we need to use , really .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it was uh your job in the first uh meet Uh , f your first presentation to make this clear , but then you had some t time problems .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , uh I {disfmarker} Yes , my my my uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The the email I got said uh simple chip , but when we put in the speaker and the retriever uh device , it will uh cost a a bit more , like I think the advanced chip {disfmarker} maybe .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . And how do you know ? I mean , you got that email . Did it point out what to use them for ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bec No , the {disfmarker} they didn't know about a retriever or a speaker uh in it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe you can uh look it up right now . Okay , but {disfmarker} okay . When we don't {disfmarker} when we leave the uh retriever and such aside , what {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then it's a simple chip .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "then it would be a simple chip . And with the retriever , it would be an advanced chip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , I I I s I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright , well , point out the advanced chip for now , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That will be enough for future uh recommendations .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it will it will it will be {disfmarker} cause a lot of problems . {vocalsound} The sample sensor {disfmarker} sample speaker . What is it m is that the speaker we were t I don't know what it is .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know it uh either .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , we went for the double-curved case",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "made out of plastic and rubber . And with a special colour . I guess that's what we were {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , special colour . {gap} .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I don't know about the special colour , but I think w uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise , you get uh a standard uh plastic colour .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know if it's very special .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think we uh we have special colours .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Standard rubber .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Alright , that's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , then the push-button , I was just counting them .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "St {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I think you have to indicate the amount of push-buttons we want to use , isn't it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Whoa , it's a little {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well that's bit of a problem ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because I re but I really don't understand that , because I can imagine a remote control with far more push-buttons , and it wouldn't be possible according to this uh sheet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That's huge . No . We have {vocalsound} the simplest buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it's only uh when you use push-buttons , it will cost that much .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so , because it says amount .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If you use a scroll-wheel {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah . Yeah , it wouldn't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The the the yellow row is the amount of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Fill in the number of components you plan to use in the {gap} and the total cost {disfmarker} I don't know . I",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it's the kind of push-buttons . You can have f four kind of push-buttons .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , one til nine .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Rubber .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is that one or is that nine buttons ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You can have uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And I count them like this . One two three uh four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve and thirteen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because {disfmarker} Oh , this is {disfmarker} oh , this is one , okay . Twelve , okay , then it would be eighteen , because uh , I uh rated them as uh um as uh uh uh separate buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "To n",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Different ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that's total of four buttons .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And plus these two , f uh plus the mute button , and it's will be uh eighteen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think that {disfmarker} Eighteen . One two three four five , si",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Why is that so uh expensive .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I don't understand . Y I do I don't get the point , because it's would be s relatively so expensive , just these m small buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is it cents , the the the fifty cents a button ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Fifty cents for one single stupid button .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No way .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , whe when you {disfmarker} so then it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , okay , well well let's make it just one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's eighty percent of the price of the of the amount of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Here , now it's now it's already s",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , exactly . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "shall we just give our own interpretation to ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because else we would really have a problem . It would be impossible to make it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I can't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's way {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I I I couldn't understand it if it was fifty cents per uh uh per button . Really .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "When you have the same amount of button , you have to put in wi in your carton . Board .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And and less buttons than this isn't possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then throw it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah , {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This is the most simple {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , no no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yeah , it is possible , but I've never seen one before .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But whe",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I've seen one uh one remote control with only the pu yeah , only with uh page up , page down and volume ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , really .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , without the numbers . That's possible . Yeah , we could skip the numbers .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I d I wouldn't want to own that . Really .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's still four .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , it's it's still for little children . They can handle that remote control ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Then uh , teletext would also be im impossible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but but it isn't fo Yes , it's for {disfmarker} it's li uh it's just for a little {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's no option , that's no option .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , we'll we'll just {disfmarker} okay . But then still , {vocalsound} when we {disfmarker} there's no room for a docking station or something . Tha w Le let's see th we have uh {disfmarker} oh yeah , button supplements . We'll give the buttons special colour . We'll give them a special form . Uh , I think we should mark the special form thing , because it {disfmarker} this will be some special forms incorporated in these big buttons , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} A special colour , why a special colour ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because the buttons will be uh d will be matching colour between the buttons and the rubber surroundings .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But wha what s what special ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think that's the {disfmarker} what they mean by a special colour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise , it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise it would be the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think the special form is really true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think all the special colour things have to be marked over here , because that's what we were planning to do , making it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Special form also , it says .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , special material r also ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because i has rubber . And the buttons have to be rubber .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What is the normal material ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Plastic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I dunno .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Sh yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Plastic , I think .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Classic ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Plastic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , plastic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Plastic .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay , but the problem now is that {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} There's no such thing as a docking station in this list , but we can all imagine that it would be impossible to make a docking station for thirty cents .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But we can uh sell the remote control and uh sell the docking station {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Separately .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Se no no no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "yes . And and {disfmarker} but we don't have to tell it , but what we can say of {disfmarker} can um almost make it impossible to buy a remote control without the docking station .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , yeah . Yeah , but I do like the idea , but we {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It uh {disfmarker} but it {disfmarker} then the docking station isn't relevant for this project anymore , but we can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , but you {disfmarker} otherwise you can't retrieve it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but then you still have to use {disfmarker} we have to find out what chip we u need .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I really don't get it . I mean if it's a simple chip , then we suddenly got two Euros and thirty cents .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we can agree on this . I I think the special colour thing has to be uh marked . 'Cause I think we uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think that's what what what they uh mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But for two Euros and thirty cents , we uh we don't get a docking station .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think so , too . Oh , I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But can we find out uh about uh this chips ? Because when we don't need a d a docking station , then probably we also have only {disfmarker} we also need a simple chip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And then we can get a docking station . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And maybe then we can do something extra . Oh , n uh oh , still {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "For {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "oh , it's gonna get more expensive with {gap} . Two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then we have some money left . We can put then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "For two Euros .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We can put a scroll-wheel on it or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh why ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well who knows . Or a little bit of tin titanium .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I mean i i if you {disfmarker} if it would cost two Euros , that had a total a total thing , it would be nice too , I mean uh we're not gonna add uh a trip to Hawaii to it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But what what can we do {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , or we can ki do the kinetic cells . That's also maybe an idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But uh what can we do with the simple chip and what's difference with a regular chip and a advanced chip ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah that's what then what he has to find out . Maybe you can uh find it in your email right now , then we know {disfmarker} then we exactly know what it will cost us .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If if i",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe is that {disfmarker} that's nice to know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Regular chip and {disfmarker} because we don't have uh special functions to use uh in advanced chip , for example .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , bu bu but when we {disfmarker} yeah , but when we skip when we um {disfmarker} when we don't use the do we're not gonna make the docking station , then we still {disfmarker} yeah , we need something else maybe to make it kind of special ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I like the hand dynamo part .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because that was our our special feature .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We can make a plain docking station for two Euros .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . We'll go back uh tomorrow . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , you can also do that , but maybe {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Wi wi without recharge {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It still is a special remote control cons uh you know , wi its form is special and material .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but we can make a docking station for two Euros uh if you don't put the recharge function in it . I mean , it has a shape .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but for two Euros , then we have still {disfmarker} maybe we have to use the advanced chip ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Of course it has a shape , but i i",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "then two Euros isn't even possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why should that not be possible ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , then {disfmarker} because then we'd {disfmarker} thirty cents left .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , for for the uh for the docking station if you do if you choose the simple chip .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker} yeah , I don't know , because maybe d uh yeah , we have to find out with the simple chip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's the question . If we do i do we need an advanced chip , or is it okay f",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and w and and we uh need f",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It isn't in my information , so I don't know it uh either .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and what is this ? Sample sensor sample speaker .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It isn't in my information , I uh I {disfmarker} I've got a schematic view of the remote control , but nothing about uh advanced chips or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker} You can look at it for s presentation . S technical functions ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh I've got here in uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No no , they were uh mine , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I will put a I will put a page on it . When my mouse works again .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , oh oh . Hey . Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "My mouse is uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Dead .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Reanimate it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Died .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Ah , I've got it . I will put uh my email on the the network .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What the hell are these ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's on it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's open .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . I don't think here {disfmarker} it's in here already .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's circuit board . It's only just basics for for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's nothing about s yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "At the end circuit there is an infrared LED .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "This isn't helpful .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No . But i in the presentation of yours , there was also something about different components . Which one was it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Components design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Functional requirements ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , that was my presentation .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Components design maybe . N on top .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes , that was mine .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah . Ah yes , it was the second one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But that was my second {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it was your second {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's already open .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "your first presentation .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's at the bottom .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sorry ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Working design .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's uh at your task bar .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it's the the other one .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , this is n this is not this n",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Was it working design or components design ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sorry .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's not the right one . I don't {disfmarker} oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , sorry .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , this is the other one . Or maybe something is uh {disfmarker} maybe there's something abo in in these {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Chip set .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But this is the same uh {disfmarker} This is o only the possibilities .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . We can use a simple , a regular , or advanced chip .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , nice . I it doesn't say anything .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The display requires an advanced chip .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You know that a push-button requires a simple chip , but a scroll-wheel , it it me requires {disfmarker} {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we only need a simple chip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Requires .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "With the light .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Little lights . Yeah , but that that's just the same as the the LED .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No no , that's just a simple chip . A scroll-wheel {disfmarker} {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's not needed .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it s uh only states that a scroll-wheel requires a regular chip , and that a display requires an advanced chip . So , we don't need any of them .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A display uh is , of course , uh for showing letters . For showing text .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "L_C_D_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think that uh just a l a little light {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No . I think uh the uh normal uh simple chip will be okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I agree .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And what's the sample sensor slash sample speaker ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe you can say against the remote uh page uh f uh page up , page down .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I guess so too .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , true . Well , that's not too {disfmarker} what we want .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Next channel . No . Well , we might want it , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} All in twelve Euros .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Back to the costs .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Twelve Euros and fifty cents .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we're gonna use the simple chip .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So , simple chip is okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Great . Delete .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And the lights . Where uh are the lights ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , lights , yeah , there's no",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , there're three , I guess .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "category . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Nah , there is some money left to be spent .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can we do it wi within two two Euro ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think we can make a docking station . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but what we have to think about now is that is is it still a special remote control ? But I mean it isn't {disfmarker} it hasn't got any innovative technology , we aren't gonna apply any uh innovated {disfmarker} innovative te technology anyway , I think . I don't I don't see any possibility to do so , because it would {disfmarker} wouldn't fit our defi design philosophy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . But it's original .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But what w is there some extra {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "maybe I think maybe the kinetic thing is something . Instead of the rechargeable {disfmarker} the rechargeable thing was something to um {disfmarker} know , so y so people wouldn't have to worry about their batteries anymore .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "M bu",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we {disfmarker} if we put the kinetic thing in it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But but sometimes you put a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you leave the p yeah , I know , but still I {disfmarker} they will think about that . I mean if you u",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Kinetics aren't uh nowadays only used in watches and that's because you're always walking .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The uh {disfmarker} it's made for s people {disfmarker} well , the they don't {disfmarker} if it was uh uh r useless technology , they wouldn't put it uh as a possibility .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh solar cells are useless .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And i it it {disfmarker} th th the the target",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or the hand dynamo dynamo {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "the target uh group are people who zap regularly and throw with their remote control as a matter of speaking {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because I think it {disfmarker} when when there w was a remote control where it was useful to have a kinetic uh uh power source , then it would be this one . Because it's one {disfmarker} it gets thrown around {gap} thrown around a lot and it gets used a lot {disfmarker} Hey that {disfmarker} maybe that's cool {disfmarker} that's a cool thing about it , you know . You don't use batteries .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but but if we ca",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I've never seen it before in a remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But then we could make a docking station .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know if {disfmarker} Five minutes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , we we we can't make a docking station anyway .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's not true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we can als or uh also m we we can make one {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Wow , w why no li",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We can make a docking station for two thirty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we can still make {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Look at now , we got two",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Fo {vocalsound} for a docking station .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Two thirty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "two thirty left . Ca can't we make a docking station of that ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We can make a docking station . Sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "With a cable , with uh buttons on it , with retrieval uh device in it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't know .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The power device is is i i is very cheap .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's just a regular uh power cable and whatever .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but be serious , then uh the docking station will be a fifth of the price of the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Wi with a button to",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , we we uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "wi with a button to retrieve it , so it will beep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh , so it's uh wireless technology .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but we uh we don't inc we haven't looked at the {disfmarker} these costs of the speaker and other stuff . I don't think it's realistic for you to do so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well then it's a useless project .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Look at the case ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , because we {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the case the case of of uh of uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , then we don't have any innovation things .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We {disfmarker} well look at all the special stuff we have . Colour a the colours are special , the form is special . It {disfmarker} th this is whole concept . Uh maybe it {disfmarker} with the kinetic thing , I think we could do uh do a compromise uh with the kim kinetic thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Can't we uh {disfmarker} Can't we say fifteen Euros ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh , no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , sta yeah {gap} I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , then we have to sell it for thirty Euros .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , we only make less profit of it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can sell for twenty seven and a half . Then you make as much profit as you would with twelve and a half production costs .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I don my suggestion is to just forget about the whole docking station thing and make it uh like a {disfmarker} Uh uh I I I I still fee I also feel this concept of making it kinetic , because of the {disfmarker} you know , it g it gives something dynamic to the remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we can uh can do it both . Maybe we can do it both uh in the in the in the remote . Battery and kinetic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , that wouldn't n no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Thirteen twenty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and it is also not a good {disfmarker} it's not {disfmarker} you have to really do it only kinetic , you don't want it to think about batteries anymore .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I think only {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but when it's {disfmarker} then when it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but only kinetic , then you gotta {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "then you have to shake it uh and all when it's when it's empty .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's great .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You you gotta throw uh throw it through the room like twenty times an hour , really .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No no no . No no , this is very sophisticated technology technology .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "When you use it {disfmarker} your remote like once a day , or maybe even less i i it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You asked for three d No , that's n that's not true . Uh , a watch is uh kinetic because you walk all the time .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It {disfmarker} We can make it {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} no . Becau be but a remote control gets {disfmarker} why do they state that this technology can be used if it",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , solar cells are also stated .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , m but a w uh uh n uh a calculator also works on r on solar cells .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why don't we use solar cells then ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because I think the d whole dynamic part , do you know , appeals to me qui uh thinking of our design philosophy , you know , with the rubber parts and uh sturdiness of the thing , and y when you move it around a lot , then people find the idea funny that when I move my remote control around and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's funny for a week . I guess something like that , where you have to move it around very frequently , is demotivating .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , but you don't have to . Trust me . The idea of this technology is that you don't think about it , it just happens .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I I don't move my uh my remote control very much , seriously .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , then we d Okay , well y we don't have to do it , but what {disfmarker} that would just have a lack of key features , you know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oui .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You m have to put something on your box . You have to make people buy it and uh {disfmarker} We can really can do the docking thing , uh it's not {disfmarker} yeah , uh we can do it , but it's would be a easy way out .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} You can do it for fifty cents . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , we've got more than fifty Cents .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but we have to grou to agree upon something ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The c {vocalsound} The case the case alone is is is uh",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because uh we only have a minute left or so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "the case alone for uh remote control is at least one Euro . Then we have one Euro thirty for the whole docking station .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No no , it's not possible . Okay , w b we can s we can leave it on be well then then th it's {disfmarker} this is {disfmarker} then then our concept is ready .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Cheap remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we make some extra profit of it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} No , we won't , but that's um something else .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It w it won't tell , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But now {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , this not gonna sell . No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Huh , any ideas ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Of course not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , uh , n no",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Great {gap} . It's great .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we just have to go all what we did today again . You have to do it over .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Our remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We come back tomorrow , okay ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No no uh there's still there's still someth concept and something special left .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Seventy Euros .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I mean we're gonna {disfmarker} it's gonna excel in in on in the the range in the field of design and and uh looks and feel .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , but {disfmarker} no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's what it's {disfmarker} makes it special . Yeah , and I would li I would have liked a kinetic part as well , to give it some just to give it some extra special feature , and uh I know it will work , but uh it's it's an {disfmarker} They're they're not putting technologies on this {gap} , but if it if it was impossible to to make it happen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Why not a hand dynamo then ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well we leave it like this . Then it's c then we're {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We can't do anything else . Warning , finish meeting now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We're done .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , project e uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is this it ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "well , we were gonna what look {disfmarker} take a look at the last sheet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {vocalsound} sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , we can't .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we have to {disfmarker} Yeah , it's {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , yes . Celebration . I don't see why , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Where's the champagne ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we gotta fill out another questionnaire , to be honest .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't uh hear a bell .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , not yet .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We can do it here then .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Alright , I'll see you guys in a minute .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bye .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Can we {disfmarker} can't we do it here ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so . I don't know . I don't I don't think so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh-huh . Just fill that one in .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we're doing now . But it's {gap} . Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh , I don't know .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nice .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
}
] |
TS3012a | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"15"
]
],
"topic": "Familiarization between team members"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"19"
]
],
"topic": "The target of the project"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"20",
"150"
]
],
"topic": "Members' acquaintance with the usage of the SMARTboards"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"151",
"176"
]
],
"topic": "The discussion about the target's user-familiarized feature and several additional design aspects"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"176",
"181"
]
],
"topic": "The selling and production price of the product"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Project Manager asked the team members give personal introductions respectively to get acquainted with each other, and then introduced a new remote control project. Before discussing the product-related issues, the manager asked the members to get acquainted with the SMARTboards for further presentation and information sharing work by drawing in turns. After the drawing session, the manager reemphasized the program target and required the remote control to possess with a user-familiarized feature. Other group members voiced out additional design aspects, including usability and lightness. Finally, the team agreed on both the selling and the production price.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The user interface asked what the project's target was. In response, the project manager emphasized that the target was a TV remote control. Then, the group members voiced out their envision of the product. The user interface suggested that the TV remote control should stick to what people are familiar with. At last, the user interface and industrial manager added usability and lightness as two other essential features of the product.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the target's user-familiarized feature and several additional design aspects.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"151",
"176"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The user interface believed that changes, be them rational or revolutionary, once made, would be hindrances to customers' usage.",
"query": "Why did the user interface think that their project should stick to what people are familiar with when discussing the members' envision of the product?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"151",
"162"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As TV was becoming central in most homes, the user interface thought that the design of the remote control should cater to the needs of different kinds of customers, even including that of the disabled people. Besides, the industrial manager thought that lightness is another essential feature of the design.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the additional design aspects of the remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"163",
"175"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The manager introduced a new technical device, the SMARTboards, to all the team members in order to facilitate their presentation and information sharing work. Then he asked the team to draw animals respectively to get acquainted with the device. Each member chooses a different animal, embodying their opinions upon the product.",
"query": "Summarize the members' acquaintance with the usage of the SMARTboards.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"20",
"150"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Firstly, he thought that dolphin represents freedom. Besides, he loved the ocean a lot and swam a lot in his spare time.",
"query": "Why did the User Interface choose to draw dolphins during his acquainting process with the SMARTboards?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"22",
"62"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The industrial manager thought that tigers always went for security, speed and efficiency. These features were also the guidelines in designing the products.",
"query": "According to the industrial manager, what characteristics possessed by the tiger were worthy of being studied by the products' design?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"103",
"126"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay , good morning . This is our first team meeting .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Good day .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Morning .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Morning .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'll be your Project Manager for today , for this project . My name is Mark {gap} will be giving this presentation for you to kick the project off . {vocalsound} That's my uh that's the agenda for today . Well , of course we're new to each other , so I'd like to get acquainted first . So let's do that first , I mean {disfmarker} Let's start with you , can you introduce yourself ? You're our Marketing Expert .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . {vocalsound} Um my name is Dirk , Dirk Meinfeld . Um I will be uh {gap} Pr Project {disfmarker} the Marketing Expert . And I will see what the user wants and uh what we can do uh with the new produ project {disfmarker} product . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , excellent . And you are User Interface {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Nick Broer ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "User Interface Designer . I'm going to uh look at the technical design from the uh user point of view .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Excellent . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "My name is Xavier Juergens , I'm the Industrial Designer , and there are three main questions that I have to find an answer to today . First one is uh what happens inside the apparatus , second is what is uh the apparatus made of ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and the third is what should it look like .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What should it look like ? Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , let's kick it off . Oh , there we go . So , our new project is about {disfmarker} we need design a remote control for television set , so , which has to be original , trendy and user-friendly . I took this off our corporate website . {disfmarker} I think well it sums up what we need to do . It's We're inspired by latest fashion , not only electronics , but also the latest trends in clothes and interior design . That's why our product will always fit in your home . So apparently we need to {vocalsound} um be very at um very open to what's currently hot in the market . So that's what you need to do to bring us the latest info and what people want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} So we put the fashion in electronics . So that's what we need to go for . Anyway , we'll take this project in three steps , three pha uh three phase of design . First step will be the functional design .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And that's basically what we're gonna do . Everybody has uh a piece of individual work and a meeting afterwards , so we can share information about {disfmarker} So I'm gonna keep this short , since we had a technical problem . So skip through this . Uh . Okay . Every meeting we {disfmarker} everybody can present their uh their views and everything , so to help with these , you have {disfmarker} we have the SMARTboards here . We can use a regular PowerPoint presentation . I'm supposed to give you an introduction on this doodling board , so it's {disfmarker} actually it's very easy . Like it says , very simple , you just take out the pen . Like you see here , I'll just take the {disfmarker} take {gap} here . That's it , you just put it on the board . You see a pen here . You go here , just like using a pen . You can just draw whatever you want . It's like the eraser , can erase whatever you want . And so it will be easy just to illustrate your views , if you wanna change the format , you just {vocalsound} either take out jus just like the pen , and whatever you want , your current colour , your line width , just to make the line bigger . So it should be really easy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is to take the {disfmarker} just take a new slide and back again . We're just gonna keep using this board all the time , so I think it will be {disfmarker} it's very clear for everyone , I suppose . So I'll take this out . {vocalsound} Okay . We'll use that later . Anyway . Yeah , just just just stuff that you wanna share , just put it in the in the project folder , like I put my presentation now . I'll put the the minutes of every meeting , I'll put them there too , so everybody can read up if they have to leave early or whatever . So next , been here . {vocalsound} Well , {gap} gonna give the electronic white-board uh a shot . So basic idea is we have a blank sheet . Just try whatever you want , and like it says , draw your favourite animal . I think the creative genius should go first . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The creative genius ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So , draw us your favourite animal .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well , I'm more into the technical aspects of drawing ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so I'm not really good at drawing animals ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Draw us a technical animal .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but uh the animal which I {gap} {disfmarker} Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's still erasing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Pen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh format . Else my animal will be like king-size . I pretty much like {vocalsound} a dolphin , because of its uh its freedom basically . Let's see . A head . {gap} actually worked with this . It's like uh it's a very {disfmarker} Uh high-tech .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Bit low-responsive though .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So that's what we don't want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Prefer pen and paper .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We want a high-responsive product . So {disfmarker} It looks more like nuclear bomb .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Very nice dolphin .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It {vocalsound} {vocalsound} doesn't look like a nuclear bomb .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This thing isn't doing what I'm {disfmarker} What I want .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's go easy on it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , well it does look like a nuclear bomb .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'll just finish up real soon , because I'm {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it doesn't really look like a dolphin ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Anyway ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but then again , this is all new for me .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it should {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} It's supposed to be a dolphin , you like the freedom that it {disfmarker} that it represents .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Like the ocean , like swimming . Do that in my spare time , so that's basically an {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What do you like ? Okay . Well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Now we can forget this ever happened .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "our Marketing Expert . Show us an animal .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um an animal .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Pick a {disfmarker} pick a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I like the elephant . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "pick a clean sheet . Oh . Take a clean sheet first .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What ? Yeah . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just press next . That's it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . Oh , a blank . Okay , next . Free , I like the elephant . It's big , it's strong , so uh uh {disfmarker} Oh , it's a little bit {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's not really that responsive , no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You have to hold it , right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} It's a beautiful animal .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , you have to p press it pretty hard . With a smile on it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It's a cute elephant .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's very important . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh not to forget its tail . Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's a nice beard .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's okay . Yes . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And you was making comments on my dolphin . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I will beat the dolphin . {vocalsound} No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so it's just a bee .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I suggest you make us the elephant in the market . The big and strong player in the market . This would be good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , excellent . On to the next one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , you should press next .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Press next . Yeah , it's up there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well the animal I'd like to draw is a tiger .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You picked a hard one , didn't you ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "My drawing skills are really bad , so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Experience with the tiger .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What ? They are {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "They are really bad , my drawing skills .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sure looks smooth .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure how the legs should go , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh these are stripes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Got it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I've picked this animal because it's very fast . It is uh it knows exactly what it wants . Uh it hardly ever wastes any resources .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What does it want ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh well , basically uh it hunts for prey , but it does it always in a very well-thought way . Uh it knows exactly what it wants . It never kills an animal uh just for the killing , so it's very efficient . And it tries to do everything as fast as possible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it always goes for uh security , in seeking uh uh a hide spot and uh and doing everything ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "security , speed and efficiency is important . And I think uh those things we can use .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I agree .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": ", I'm supposed to draw the animal next . Yay I introduce to the world the amazing ant .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh hard worker .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Great team-workers .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do everything to Uh really small , but together they're really strong . So I'm gonna give it a smiley face .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Not sure where the p {gap} . Just put 'em here . Whatever . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Think it need shoes . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I'm just too lazy to draw it all black , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That's the coolest ant ever .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You've done this before , haven't you ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I love to draw ants . It's my hobby .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Anyway {disfmarker} Nah . {vocalsound} Just {disfmarker} I think it's very representative what we drew , I guess . Like you take {disfmarker} just take your freedom and use a a trendy interface that you design for us .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just {disfmarker} Yeah . You're supposed to make i make it different from uh from what other people have , and just make it a little distinct . Anyway . {gap} another beep to stop the meeting . See . Warning . Finish meeting now . Uh put this down . Examples . Well I guess we have a little little time extra , but {disfmarker} Just a little quick discussion to to open open our work . So what do you guys think about {disfmarker} The first idea is just very short . I'll start with you . What are y What are your first ideas for the new product ? What {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I basically had a question . Do {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} Are we going to introduce a multi remote control ? Is it just the T_V_ or do we want to in",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The project I got was just for a T_V_ remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just for T_V_ remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I guess so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Well , I was thinking about design remote control , with our uh motto and all .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh thing to keep in mind is that we need to stick to what people are familiar with .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No rational changes or whatever , 'cause it {disfmarker} revolutionary changes ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so very intuitive design , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yes . {vocalsound} Uh we might have to consider other design aspects of our product . So that was something I wanted to add ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and perhaps some usability aspect . T_V_ is becoming central in most homes . Do we want people who are disabled in any way to uh , yeah , to be able to use it as well ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we want {disfmarker} I suppose we want almost everyone to be using it . So {vocalsound} I think {disfmarker} I mean , really disabled people , yeah , {vocalsound} might be a problem , but I think it's a little {gap} take it into consideration . Um yeah . I think we really need to cut the meeting short . You have anything you wanna share quickly ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Only one thing uh that has to be added according to me is uh the the material it is made of , it should be something light .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker} it speaks for itself ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It should be light , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but some uh {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um , let's see ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "where did I {disfmarker} Let's skip that . Oh , this is it . Sorry , I skipped this sheet .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Selling price .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What do we {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} Quick {gap} {disfmarker} What we're going to {disfmarker} Selling price , twenty five Euros . That's for you . The production price , twelve and a half Euros , approximately .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just go go for that . We'll reach the uh reach that profit .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , well that's not that much to work with . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} international .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , it's not much to work on . I'm sorry , I skipped it . {vocalsound} Anyways , that's {disfmarker} Yeah , this is it . Do you have anything you you came up with yet ? About uh marketing transfer , whatever ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um about what ? Marketing ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Marketing {gap} I'm not sure what you what you came up with yet . You have anything to share ? Or else we'll cut the meeting just cut the meeting short",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um no , not really yet ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "since we're supposed to stop .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but I've some ideas",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and I will uh say it uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Anyways , the the personal coach will give you the your p your personal assignments and everything . So we'll just meet back in here thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm sure we have that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Good luck everyone .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , thanks for attending .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , good luck .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'll see you back here in thirty minutes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
}
] |
TS3012b | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"11",
"170"
]
],
"topic": "Presentations about ideas on the remote control"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"171",
"433"
]
],
"topic": "New requirements for the functional design of their new product"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"434",
"641"
]
],
"topic": "Discussions about remote control's functional design and production cost"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"642",
"929"
]
],
"topic": "A sketch of the visual design"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "In this meeting, the team first gave presentations about their ideas most about remote control's functional design based on research and knowledge they had already known. And then Project Manager delivered new requirements for the look, functions, and some others about the remote control. Later on the team brainstormed about many functional designs—where to put buttons and how much size they should be, the necessity of beep and flash, the design of covers, and the choice of LCD screen and rechargeable batteries—of the remote control based on new requirements, researches, current technology and production price. Finally they decided about the remote's button design and had an optimistic attitude towards rechargeable things but there still needed more market research when they gave a sketch of the new product.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Marketing gave a presentation in the first place based on research and came up with ideas like what their remote control should look like, buttons design, whether the new product should have LCD screens. Marketing also suggested that there could be any chances that remote control could know users' preference channels, and there would be a beep when they couldn't find control. Then User Interface delivered a speech mainly on the size of buttons and remote control, and agreed to find remote control easier and increase its durability. At last, Industrial Designer did an analysis on what Marketing and User Interface said before and claimed that there still needed a lot to know but integration of materials meant less cost for the production and they should make up a different Morse code when some button was pressed.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about presentations about ideas on the remote control.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"11",
"170"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Marketing found that seventy five percent of the users thought most remote controls ugly, and most people found it irritating when they couldn't find their remote control. And another thing Marketing found important was that users had a feeling for speech recognition so that they could choose channels by voice. And they wanted maybe an LCD screen to search what's on every channel.",
"query": "What did the market feedback about common remote controls said by Marketing?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"35",
"67"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "First Industrial Designer raised questions like whether their remote control would be universal and should it be programmable or not, because they needed something like a mode to send out a different signal so that the remote can work in this way. Then the size of the remote was also put by Industrial Designer since there were already plenty of technical parts in it and it was quite complex to deal with material problems. But at last Industrial Designer came up with the idea of integration of materials and in this way, the new product would cost less.",
"query": "Why did Industrial Designer not agree to what Marketing and User Interface said before?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"150",
"170"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "At first Project Manager limited remote control's appealing population to younger people less than 40 years, which meant their remote control should be trendy. And also corporate color and slogan should be recognizable on the remote control, which contributed to the idea of whether there should be a replaceable cover.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the new requirements for the functional design of their new product.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"171",
"433"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Their remote control could be purchased in a situation when users' old remote had broken, so a universal remote control could be a must. Project Manager put forward this idea but did not know if there would be any chance to accomplish it easily, and Industrial Designer it would be possible but still needed some research.",
"query": "What did Project Manager and Industrial Designer discuss about making an universal remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"396",
"413"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Buttons design was all about volume, channel, power, and some other instant ideas. The team discussed their sizes, big or small, and places, up, center, or down, and also their arrangements, vertical or horizontal, and reached a conclusion that the power button could be on top. They came up with mute button as well but Project Manager didn't think it was important.",
"query": "What did the team talk about button design of the remote control?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"434",
"542"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer raised an idea of making a rechargeable remote control which could have a wire and could charge itself when it was put in the electricity. Project Manager also had some responsive sparkles but they could hardly be applied. But at least one thing the team all agreed to was that a rechargeable remote was a comfort and people could pay for comfort.",
"query": "What did the team think of a rechargeable remote when discussing remote control's functional design and production cost?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"543",
"607"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Except uncertain problems such as LCD screen and speech recognition thing influenced by financial information, there would be many chances to have important buttons on top and bigger, different functional menus to adjust TV things, and very important idea of have replaceable covers, which could be designed to different colors meeting younger generation's demands.",
"query": "Summarize what their remote control would look like.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"642",
"929"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Wait for the marketing director actually , so . Anyways . Uh . See , shall we wait ? I'm not sure if he's late or delayed or whatever , so I'm gonna start soon , we have now {disfmarker} don't have much time anyway .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , there he is .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "There you are ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sorry ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "a little bit of pl little problem with computer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh no problem . We're about to start , so have a seat . Okay , welcome again .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Today , functional design phase . I'll take you over the minutes of last last meeting . Okay , that was just to get to know each other ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "have a little thoughts on what your vision is and {disfmarker} on this project , so {disfmarker} I put the minutes on the {disfmarker} I made on the on the p the the project share , so if you wanna review them , they're there . I will do so after every meeting , so if you have some information you wanna take back you can find it there . Anyways , um today three presentations , from every one of you . Um after that I got some new project requirements from project board , so we're gonna go af go after {disfmarker} over this later . But I wanna start with uh stuff you did first , so we can see what everybody came up with . And after that we can have the new requirements and share some thoughts , so . Who would like {disfmarker} wanna go first ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure , no problem .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Take it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um there was a little problem with my computer so not uh the whole uh presentation uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Anyway , let's see what you have .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um {disfmarker} Okay ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's still a bit open .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I want to open the my s oh no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You should close it on your own notebook , I guess . Yeah . So there ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh no ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "that's okay . Uh slide show . Yes . The functional requirements , it's uh {vocalsound} uh very important for uh the user , he he wants to {disfmarker} yeah . The the method we used uh it it's not m not a slide , because it went wrong , but the method we use uh , um {vocalsound} we tested it w uh with uh a hundred uh men , and we asked them to w uh what the remote uh f feel uh like and uh what what's uh important . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If I can cut in , is it people or men ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "People ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is it people , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "sorry .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Cause I thought it was only men ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Both women and men ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Kay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Uh the findings um uh {vocalsound} seventy five percent of the users find most remote controls ugly . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's pretty shocking uh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So we have to s we have to do something about that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and {disfmarker} yeah , most th th they want to spend money for a better system , for better remote control , so we can do uh a l a little uh nice things with it , and um they use {disfmarker} yeah , they use zap a lot , um uh fifty percent say they only {disfmarker} So that's the most important things .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} oh yeah , not all of it is it on mine on my PowerPoint presentation ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , just talk ahead .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but um uh the relevant buttons are the power , the channel selection and the volume selection .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's uh the most basic buttons that a user wants uh {vocalsound} to use . Uh less important is tel teletext ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh um they use it , but it's not uh very uh important uh on the scale of zero to ten they six and a half uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , that's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker} but not important is the channel selection , the the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} hmm ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's a little weird .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Which channel selection ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the the {disfmarker} no no no no no , that's very important , but uh w and not important in the audio settings , display settings",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we can we can hide those under a menu or something ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um new preferences preferences . Uh um um beep to find your control , was {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's like a button on your T_V_ ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "that was {gap} in the test , the the most people uh f find it uh irritating uh when they cannot find a rem their remote control ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Remote , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so uh I think it's a bee beep to sound it and uh you can find it . And another thing uh they want was uh speech recognition um so they can say uh what they want to {disfmarker} let's go to channel one and uh that's uh kind of things .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And they want maybe an uh L_C_D_ screen um to to look it um wh what's on every channel uh and uh what do I want with it ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We wanna have a little preview on the remote control . Preview what's on the channel .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is that manageable ? 'Cause it sounds pretty expensive too .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That sounds too {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's possible , but uh I think it's expensive , but do continue .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um {disfmarker} Uh my personal preferences is uh a button for my favourite channel , so I can uh I dunno , so I can zap to my uh f uh quick uh to my favourite channel wh what I uh {disfmarker} so , the remote mu must see or um must um {vocalsound} see wha what mine preferences are for which channel ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , you don't set it yourself ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so I can zap t to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it just remembers the channel that you are on most , for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You want the {disfmarker} you want it to be programmed , for example y programmed f",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "or you want it to recognise your favourite channel ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's see , you you spend twenty minutes each day on that channel ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Recognise {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so it recognises your favourite channel .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , that's uh what my personal preference like .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so it's it it does {disfmarker} it recognise itself , you don't have to set it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "itself . Maybe it's easier to {vocalsound} to sell it , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't know it's manageable , but we will uh we will see .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's a little bit uh it's the end of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's a little bit uh I lost it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "the computer uh crashed ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No problem , it's it's okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's {disfmarker} Yeah , go ahead .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Shall I go ? Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So , some technical functions .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Darn computer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Basically I have some issues which you discussed earlier . Uh let's just start with the method .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It sounds really easy , what does the user do , what does the th remote control do , but there are quite some issues . So the things I'm going to concentrate on are the user aspect , because the technical aspect , that's pretty much covered . We can do that . What goes wrong {vocalsound} at the user . Gets the remote control . Where is the remote control ? We've all had it once , I want to watch some television ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "where's the remote control ? That was one of your ideas which you posted in the network folder ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That seems very good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "a really good idea . Uh these are just the issues . I come to some uh personal experience , findings , possible solutions later . Searches for the button . There are many buttons on a remote control which are not clear . Uh so either we lose those or we try to make it a little bit more clear .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh also symbols tend to fade after a while .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "There's nothing more annoying than faded symbols , because you don't know which channel is this button , so possibly we could find uh something for that ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so have it more {disfmarker} make it more durable actually . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yes . Uh covered that . Oh yes , user presses the button . Um usually when you have a lot of buttons , buttons are small . So you press more once remote control goes kablouey or something like that ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so the buttons should be {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so we have to pay attention not to put too mun too many buttons on uh the remote control . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And possibly also the size , so more important buttons , bigger",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Wow . The s Yeah . Make it {disfmarker} make them bigger .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "si",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Even more durable uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So this is basically what I h had in mind in the {disfmarker} fade-proof symbols , locator , a sound , uh so clear we should stick to existing symbols , but maybe we could do a little uh investigation to see whether some symbols are uh {disfmarker} need to be replaced by others . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This I pretty much covered . {vocalsound} So what we want to go to is not this one ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but more {disfmarker} less buttons , easy , some bigger buttons .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's basically uh what I had in mind . So",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's clear .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This is not the final design ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , of course uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "this is just a general idea of how I'd like to see uh basically the general idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I must say that it {disfmarker} Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} So that was it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That was it . Okay , that was good . So we agree on the the part that we need to get something on the on the remote to find it somewhere and increase it {disfmarker} the durability of of the thing ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think it's a really good idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The other aspects , we'll just see how {disfmarker} what you came up with and what's possible for that budget .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , that's fine . Um . Okay , now work a little with me . Okay . Well ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "let's start it as it is . Okay , uh the method . There are a few questions that need to be answered , uh you already uh talked about it a little bit . Which buttons are wanted , uh is our remote control universal or should it be programmable . Uh if it should be programmeab grammeale then we need um something like a mode that you can switch it . Because then the buttons have to send out a different signal then they would normally do .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh how big is the remote control uh going to be ? I'll tell you why that's important to me . Um there are a lot of technical parts in the remote control , so uh uh that's {vocalsound} why I also would like to say uh go a little bit easy on the designs , uh I heard ab uh you talking about beeps and about uh video screens , but uh the material inside and the technical aspects are quite complex already .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So keep in mind that everything that you keep uh {disfmarker} think of , it has to b to be built .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Of course , hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So it's {disfmarker} that's not as easy as it s might look like .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh material study , I'm working on that um for the the costs . I have to check out how far I can go with that . Normally , a circuit board is made of fibreglass uh and the wires are made of copper . Uh that is how it is done and all the remote controls work that way , I think we can just go on with that . Um then I've read more integration of materials means less cost for the production . The more we can make uh at once uh in one piece , uh that is cheaper .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You mean integrate them all into the circuit board . Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Exactly , so if we make a circuit board with the the connections already on it , then that's cheaper .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we have to {vocalsound} make something that's not too difficult in design again .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So you have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This is what look like uh looks like if you press one button , so this is not the entire thing . You have the the power coming in , then you have like a switch . The switch uh uh {vocalsound} uh if you p press it then some electrical charge goes into the processor , that thinks over a Morse code , that's how you should see it . The Morse code goes to the amplifier , then uh the signal is sent to two uh light bulbs . You have infrared and an interv um {vocalsound} uh how to say it ? Uh a light in indication , light that you know that it's functioning .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh here again , that's my story about the different modes , if you do want to make remote uh universal , then the processor has to uh make up a different Morse code when some button is pressed . That makes it much more complex , so we really need to have a look , do we want that or not . Uh I don't have any personal p uh preferences uh so far , except for uh the materials to be used uh light , that they are light .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Okay . That was it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} That was it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'll get back to my thing then . Uh {disfmarker} Okay , back this up {disfmarker} to the screen . So I got some new information on the project specifications are changing a little . Like you said uh teletext is not not very popular anymore because the uh the internet , nowadays people don't use the teletext anymore or hardly , so it can either {disfmarker} Well , I don't think we should remove the button , because there are always people who are using it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I don't think it should be {vocalsound} very {disfmarker} it should be one of the big buttons for example . Just put it somewhere or under second option or whatever . It's not important anymore . Um we're targeting young people now , because our um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} This is a new product and with this new product we want to appeal to younger people ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "which are {disfmarker} um the younger people were defined under forty .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I so I think it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that's also good with the fashion and everything ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "B",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and they want to pay for it",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "They want to pay for it , people are willing to spend money actually to buy a um remote that they like .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If they like the way it looks , the way it functions , so they're actually gonna spend uh spend money on it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With more {disfmarker} Where {disfmarker} with more technical specifications",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "in the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {vocalsound} see how far we can go with it anyway , so",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} And one thing that should be important is that the corporate l colour and slogan are recognisable , which is apparently {vocalsound} black and yellow , but {disfmarker} I'm not sure if we {disfmarker} I think we should keep the the logo in mind , because with colours you can uh have a lot of uh fashionable colours and everything on it , which suits everybody's taste . So {disfmarker} With that concept I started thinking , so why not just steal Nokia's idea and just make changeable covers for your {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I mean those cost hardly anything I think , and people could even spend extra money on buying a cover",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and so have an entire new remote control that they like to see . Or we can sh for example we can make a different {vocalsound} {disfmarker} a basic design . And sell the covers separately , for example . That's just a little marketing idea that could be applied , so you can p it appeals to really everyone . So you don't have to {disfmarker} I think you don't have to make entire remote controls . We make a basic one and manufacture this cover separately .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that was that was my idea on what we could do to appeal this product to everyone . So",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "just {disfmarker} I'm not sure if you came up with anything in the meantime , after making a presentation . Would you like to share ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , I think this is a good idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} oh ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is it manageable ? Is it easy ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , with with an L_C_D_ screen you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah . I think we should lose the L_C_D_ screen ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Y Yes , I think so too .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "like you said . I think for example it's it's huge {disfmarker} I think the L_C_D_ is huge ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Why ? Nokia w",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it consumes batteries like hell .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it takes up a lot of a lot of power .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it costs too much to fabricate ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It costs a lot , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so we're on a tight budget here .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What we could do , what could be possible , is maybe not an L_C_D_ screen but with a preview ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but y I'm not sure if it's even possible {vocalsound} . For example , a little T_V_ guide .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Like you have a little {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "just just a text only , not colour , just a little text thing",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so you can use your remote as a T_V_ guide . I'm not sure it's even possible ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . I have to check that out ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but maybe okay , make it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , find a little compromise in that , but {disfmarker} What did I write down ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think the p yeah , the beep is a very simple thing to imple implement , just make a button on your T_V_",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That must be possible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and just hit the button , it beeps somewhere . I think it's easy to implement ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ja .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we should go for that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "whe where do you wanna hit the T_ {disfmarker} you wanna {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we want a button on the television . {gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I thin {vocalsound} Yeah , I mean where else should you put it ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In th okay , but that rules out a universal remote control .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because that's not possible uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but {vocalsound} how are you gonna use that if your {disfmarker} I mean if your remote control is lost , how are you gonna press {disfmarker} where are you gonna press the button ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh . Yeah . Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe just a slap-on sticker with a button which sends out a small signal .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A slap-on sticker . Oh , you mean as like a separate thing you can attach to your T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that could be possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , exactly .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A little little box you can attach to your T_V_ is fine then , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , then uh I'd I'd like to know now if we want the uh universal remote control or not , because that's uh determines everything I'm gonna do .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it's universal . I think we should go for universal ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because apparently we're a separate company making separate c remote controls to sell to a lot of diverse people .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think universal remote control should be possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , then I go for that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Everyone uh wants to buy it , so we w",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think we're targeting everyone ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so remote {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay . No ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's fine with me , but then I know what to look for .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , universal is good . Speech recognition , I think it's very hard , because we're selling across multiple countries . So I think implementing speech recognition is such a small um apparatus , it's very hard to do .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Or one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or when you say one two uh i it uh it's enough ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I don't see Arabian people speaking one , two uh whatever .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "right ? But {disfmarker} Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Besides that , the technology isn't really super yet , so that {vocalsound} is a problem in implementing this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's not a mature technology , I think it takes a lot of memory and everything in in a remote control ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's a good idea , but it's just not {disfmarker} I don't think the market's ripe for that yet .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it should be implemented in a remote control yet uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What else do we have ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um well you should you should look into the in into the materials that are real durable . So the the the symbols won't fade ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "maybe a little harder plastic",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or especially li we don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I already noted that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "maybe we don't have have to do all the buttons , but especially the ones that are um the popular buttons , so those always fade first .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm , okay . Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm the thing is the most important things that we have now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Let's see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If we uh make a remote control with changeable covers , then we can also make uh a cover for every language area .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For example ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's fo {vocalsound} is uh especially for older people , that they can read it read it in their own language .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , we're not we're not targeting older people ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we should remember that . Everything we target is under forty ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "okay , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You assume that that they read correctly and I think they're {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The most important thing about young people is that they're really sensitive to to trends that are passing through the world ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But b",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But should the exchangeable covers include the buttons themselves or just the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , of course . No , I think it's just something you you put over them , because {disfmarker} Yeah we c Yeah , you ca Well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "tha that's not a that's not a bad {disfmarker} that's not even {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "C",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But every {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "that's a problem with the with the text then .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's not even a bad idea . I mean , for example , if you're if you're into the durability issue you could {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "For example , if your buttons are faded , after {disfmarker} I mean if you make a durable remote , they are faded , you can just buy a new cover .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh I'm not sure it's it's hard to make .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it's a good and a bad idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh but I know that the buttons are like a Nokia telephone on uh one sleeve ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so you don't have to change your whole cover . Uh we can make something that you can only remove the sleeve .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , I know what you mean .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Know what I mean ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It works the same as a Nokia telephone , it's it's in my uh {disfmarker} 'kay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I know , it's just just a one one piece of rubber for example ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay . Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that's what I {disfmarker} something I have to look into . Either either change both the buttons and and the cover or just the cover , I'm not sure which which is easier ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um anyway , yeah , this is what we're gonna do afterwards , just lunch break and have more individual work after that , so let's see what we {disfmarker} let's see we {disfmarker} So you have to come up with a components concept , yeah . I want some {disfmarker} you should do some trend-watching , because even if we're if we're gonna do those covers and everything , what people really want , that's what we need to know in this phase ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because that's gonna be the essential final design that we're gonna come up with .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} Yeah , I think user interface is fairly obvious . I mean it should be very intuitive ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Pretty straightforward .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "s Yeah , it should speak for itself . Uh for example I bought a remote control last week with a new T_V_ , it was it l it's like all buttons and you have no idea what it does at first ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and I'm {gap} total T_V_ new , anyway . So I think it should be {disfmarker} have less or l very little buttons and maybe a second {vocalsound} second level menu for the advanced things . Or maybe just stick 'em under a menu , like you said the um {vocalsound} the sound options and the surround and whatever , they're more complicated , just stick 'em under one menu and uh give it a {disfmarker} just put it in in s in a software piece , you can menu and you can uh select everything you want to to set on your T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is it techni technically possible to uh {vocalsound} send a signal to a television and then pops up a menu ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because we're working with different types of television , so we're going to work with that ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That is true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , that's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I don't think so . Because the television needs to respond to the signal ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's an in-built menu ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "and if it doesn't know how , it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "isn't it ? Yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Exactly , that's not possible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So basically",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure if it's impossible ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but uh there's a chance it's not , so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or we could use a double-sided {disfmarker} for {vocalsound} less used functions",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "A double-sided remote control ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think that's useful .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , with the cover . {vocalsound} I it's basically an idea to overcome these issues ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but then you're gonna have a lot of wasted buttons .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "For example you have a Sony T_V_ and the half of the buttons won't function if you have a {disfmarker} for a Sony that won't {disfmarker} for a Philips T_V_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , but basic functions {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but functions which are not frequently used .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think we should {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Because if we use a universal remote control , we're going to have to have most buttons on it ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , for exam",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm not s",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , for ex you have to make it a little decision between the part if you want a universal remote control that {disfmarker} it should do what people usually do with their T_V_s , not not the very complicated settings",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "that you can usually do that with uh either a old old remote control if they really hate that thing ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but you can't you cannot take into consideration all the different brands of T_V_s .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But that might be broken .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think there's I think there is a standard for example between uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because usually the the menu is {disfmarker} the menu button is is usable between different brands . Especially the big ones , the big brands ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so . 'Cause everybody {disfmarker} I have a universal remote control and it can use the menu button , so I think {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure , if you can put some research into that , if it's possible . Uh I think just a b",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm okay . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and the navigation is very basic , it's usually the same thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . But I think there must be a way uh to invoke the more complicated functions of a television . For instance , if your old remote control is broken and you buy ours , then uh you should be able to get everything out of the television that's in it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , that's true . I think so",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because otherwise you'll lose functions by buying our {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh we need to put some research into that if if we can open the menu , I think it's possible , just the way how to .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I thi I think so too .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , then then you could do everything I suppose , because usually the T_V_s have tha that inside in this other little piece of software , so it's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I think that our r remote control should not look like uh any other . For instance uh Sony makes all their remote controls exactly the same for all their devices ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and you always grab the wrong one because formatting of the buttons is exactly the same , only the labels are different .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah I think it should be a little distinct from everything else ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We should not do that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because it's {disfmarker} either it's both {gap} mayb",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Exactly .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "maybe the shape can be a little different .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I have some ideas . I have some ideas .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it's a little more curves or whatever .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm that's your uh division . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} yeah . And uh with different colours uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'll put some on paper and present them next time uh the ideas that I have .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , this {gap} . Not sure what {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because we have forty minutes , I'm not sure how much time we have left for the meeting anyway , so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I heard a beep go .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but it wasn't me , it was him closing something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So anyway , yeah , we could do some i do some work now on on the design for example . I mean what do you want , do you want {gap} , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we like some some curves or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , may maybe something like this . But though smooth inside . So you have the transmitter here for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Let's see that you {disfmarker} what would be handy . I think that the {vocalsound} the buttons should be {disfmarker} the channel buttons should be {vocalsound} uh on their own .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh . And a light uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's see one , two {disfmarker} God damn it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , we get the general ideas , yes .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay . {vocalsound} Another one here . Let's see what {disfmarker} I think this should {disfmarker} these are always on top of the of the control , so they should be here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , and since you're holding it like this , I suggest you put the channel up channel down and volume {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Think it's like this . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Volume .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Withi within the {disfmarker} Yeah , just take it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah yeah . So you have the up channel {vocalsound} the down channel {disfmarker} the volume , do we want that horizontal or vertical ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Do you take triangles or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh it's it's fine , I think .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Um I think it should be I think it {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "This is basically what people are accustomed to ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we should make 'em bigger or whatever .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but this is just a g general idea .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh d {gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh maybe the menu button can go i in the middle .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , in the middle . It's it's usually uh there , but {disfmarker} Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Whoa .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps we should also make uh something like a flash on it , if you {disfmarker} if it's lost , for people that are deaf . They they won't hear the the beep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but for example if it's lost in your armchair , we'll not see the flash .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You won't be able to find it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And flash takes up a lot of batteries again .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh . Yeah , it's true , but it's it's only has to do so when you press the button that it's lost .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We could make a combination that it goes beep and that you {disfmarker} that some light lights up .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So . {gap} deaf people ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And L_E_D_ uh on it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I thought about for deaf people for example , so . We could do that . Uh let's see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Just a light on it or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we have the basic channels we've got here , uh the power button somewhere over here ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , it's true . Um that thing should be central .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Very important .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You shouldn't be {disfmarker} you uh shouldn't press it by accident , but it shouldn't be stacked away somewhere .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I usually press it on top .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that's {disfmarker} It's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "At least that's what I'm accustomed to .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I have another idea ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , like that's gonna work . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure if it's possible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What would you like to {gap} ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I thought maybe we should move the buttons down",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But you r",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and put it here for example",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And you are reading from the t",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you always read from the top to the the bottom of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "From top to bottom . Yeah , that's true ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "you should {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think the bu the power button should be on top ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'cause it's the first thing you do {vocalsound} , turn it on . So power button on top . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , mute button . Is that somewhere here ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mute . Do we hardly {disfmarker} I think it should be at the bottom somewhere .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Is that used often ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So i it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The mute button ? Do people use that often ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "sorry ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mute . Turn the sound off .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it's {disfmarker} no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Cause uh I'm pretty much accustomed to it {vocalsound} right over here , at least in general ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh . Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I don't think it's important , {gap} but I think it I think it should be {disfmarker} you c",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's not that important , no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you could put it somewhere here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or or with the volume selection . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , because it {disfmarker} Yeah , people are accustomed to that ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Around uh not uh not at top at the {disfmarker} around the volume selection .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Can I have that ? That's j",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know where exactly ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Take this out and here see {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh are we gonna take triangles anyway ? I'm drawing triangles , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's pretty much what people are accustomed to ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "aren't they ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's maybe a bigger lesser than thing . So anyway , I think this is {disfmarker} should be the channels and {disfmarker} or sh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Wha",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm accustomed to the channels being on top .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Here ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , me too .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "okay . Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "should we chan",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "On the right .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "okay , {vocalsound} this two , channel up and down .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Shall we uh also look if it's possible to make a rechargeable remote ? That you don't have to buy new batteries if every {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "for {disfmarker} that is it's on one part it's um it's a good thing to recharge it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it's more ex expensive .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm , yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we should {disfmarker} what what could be possible is one with rechargeable batteries for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You have {disfmarker} just put Penlite batteries that are rechargeable , because it's an it's it's it's very annoying .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But isn't that expensive in the entire package ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But that's already possible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure y {vocalsound} I'm not sure it's {disfmarker} if it's expensive , but just take a look at it , because it might be a very good idea . Because if {disfmarker} it's it's uh useful to have it rechargeable ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but at the same time , if you don't want recha if you forgot to recharge it and you wanna watch T_V_ now , you wanna be able to put different batteries in it , use it now and not in half an hour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Yes . Okay . Uh you could make a device , but I'm not sure how that uh is possible with the costs , that you can put in normal batteries , rechargeable ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think I have a nice idea .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but it {disfmarker} you're {disfmarker} the remote also can act as a recharger . So then you can choose , you have every decision . Know what I mean ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Not exactly uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You can uh put in normal Penlites , rechargeable Penlites , but they can also be recharged with the remote , with a wire .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it's uh it's a pretty good idea to have uh like sort of a {disfmarker} maybe a base station that you put on the T_V_ . Could be flat , you could insert your uh remote into it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's g",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I think that will cost a lot .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh a normal wire would be better .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "A what ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like a like a P_D_A_ , a hand-held . You can uh just put it in the electricity and it charges itself ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , we were talking about the fact that we wanted to insert either a beep or a flash into the thing with a little separate signal",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you don't need basic station . Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker} So you could put that on a T_V_ for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That is possible , that's true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It could be very flat , could be very small .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} Which {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's a very small {disfmarker} Yeah , I'm drawing it big now , but {disfmarker} So you can put your remote on flat for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And at the backside of remote just just just a little hole",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "for example um you just {vocalsound} put it down , it recharges for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it's very expensive .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But again , isn't that too expensive ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'Cause that means that we have to implement rechargeable batteries , a docking station {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure if it costs a lot , that that's what he r",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's that you {disfmarker} that's what you buy yourself .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . I'm going to try to find that out . I'm not sure if there's information available on this ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's just an idea , we have to find out if it's possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And do people actually want that ? To pay extra {disfmarker} they want to pay for rechargeable ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , they want to pay for it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do they want {disfmarker} but they want a rechargeable one ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure , you should find out if it's {disfmarker} if rechargeable is important .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Th uh there was not a el ask esque {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . These are uh comfort issues . So I think people will pay {disfmarker} they wanted to pay for comfort .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "They want to pay for comfort ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , this is comfort .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we just assu we we could either make a separate station which just sends a signal to the remote control to either beep or flash to find it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But f hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "um and {disfmarker} Yeah , we have to {disfmarker} either that or make it integrated with a with a docking station .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Yeah . Exactly . I think this is a brilliant product .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I think it would be good actually .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I would buy it myself .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I like the beep part {vocalsound} anyway .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "let's go through the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I like the covers . That's a brilliant idea .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Can can we save this or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Covers is covers is good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I never thought {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's {disfmarker} Oh we can save this . Up and saved . We even saved the ant . {gap} Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay . So",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "what we have is {disfmarker} you have {disfmarker} I think you have {vocalsound} to do a lot of work on if it's possible for the cost .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I hope if I have information about that ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe {disfmarker} yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm gonna {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or {vocalsound} maybe you can find out i what people are willing to pay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We are going for twenty five Euros sales price ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but just try to find out what they're willing to pay for it , because if they're willing to pay more , we could lose a little profit and maybe attract more customers ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . {vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "uh we just have to see what it looks like .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I would like to make a decision {gap} . What it costs and what kind of materials that we can uh choose what we want in it",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , if you have some financial information that that'd be nice ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker} exactly , I need it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so . Hmm . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Could you post some {vocalsound} other essentials of what people want , so that I can work with some buttons , where to put it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You seem to have information on that , I'd like to uh see some of it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Was it not possible to uh send emails around the office ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , it wasn't wasn't allo",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it's not . No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it was possible ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "not allowed , so . So that's um why I'm not sure that {vocalsound} you're allowed to share documents on the on the draft .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . My computer crashed ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't care . I haven't heard any complaints yet ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , your computer . Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I lost my uh presentation ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but I have the uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , I have your PowerPoint presentation , I can get some inf information out of that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but I Here I have the the s the homepage of uh our internet ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Let's see .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the oh , they inc uh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and here is my",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "they include the new one . {vocalsound} Or just for you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , where would we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "here is my marketing report ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "maybe you ca you can look at uh {vocalsound} that",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "no , I didn't have that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Where would we want the uh teletext button ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Ah yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because we decided that it's n not that important .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "All it tells {gap} just {disfmarker} let's make make a new {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And one {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Do we put it somewhere over here ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "tick the new one . {vocalsound} Um other side . Yeah , let's increase it a little because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And uh wha what people want , I've uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe this is something for the next meeting , I can draw out some ideas .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , draw us up some some designs of of possible {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I have another thing uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "just keep in mind that the important buttons should be on top and either big ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so the more {disfmarker} less important {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , we have decided {vocalsound} more or less the basic structure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "More or less .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I can put the other buttons in {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Just play a little with this , put l shift a little up or down and we'll see what looks best .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "What uh what did you wanna say ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or just po post your designs from time to time on the product share .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh what I al already said is the the uh the remote controls are always lost ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe another idea uh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but it it's also for people , {vocalsound} they want to learn it fast ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "not uh {disfmarker} they want to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , so we don't want {gap} we want very little buttons , just the buttons you use a lot .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker} yeah , it's easy to learn",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but it should cover all the functions ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "wi and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "so possibly , just an idea that popped in {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "what {disfmarker} we had function that what people do ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so . People change channels , people {vocalsound} {disfmarker} they change the volume and they they change channel , they turn T_V_ off and on , for example . That's the basic fu that's what you do {disfmarker} I'm not sure who present that again , but those are the basic function that people use it for , so those should be very well represented .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we could go a step further ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} If {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because some T_V_s have the uh possibility to adjust brightness , that kind of menus .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's true , but that's what we stick under the menu button . Everything is {disfmarker} you say in every T_V_ that's configured under the menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but it {disfmarker} Because we're making {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But that's the question , is it ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Because it needs to be configured in the television under the menu .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If it isn't , then we cannot reach it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We need to adjust to the {vocalsound} technology .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I think most modern T_V_s have it in their menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think so too . I think so too .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh isn't there a possibility to do research on that , so we know that for sure ? If you rule out functions , then uh {disfmarker} and that gets known , then people are not gonna buy it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No , I thi",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Then the consumer bond or something says uh you cannot do this and that with it . That's a bad bad com {vocalsound} commercial",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "If um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh we'll we'll see what we can come up with .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "for {vocalsound} {disfmarker} okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Another thing I want to say is that uh we are looking at the market for the age uh {vocalsound} younger than forty .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Under forty . Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um on my report , {vocalsound} I didn't uh {vocalsound} ish I didn't show it in my uh presentation ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because my computer crashed .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um they want to pay for an L_C_D_ screen and speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The want to pay for {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Did they really said it like that ? Those two things .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "i yeah . Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh shall we ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Do they realise how much that costs ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's almost undoable .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Younger , age sixteen and forty five .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , we're not going to be able to sell it for twenty-five then , with an L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's all here , here it says {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No , that's that's {gap} . Even if i if we have this lost unit , then we cannot do it for that price .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , age sixteen forty fi interest in main features more critical .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If if they {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so we're not focusing on this . Um {disfmarker} All the interest in features , not really the L_C_ {disfmarker} oh here . Would you pay for uh speech recognition in a remote control . Hmm , okay ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , that's true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we can",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Speech recognition is quite {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We can look at the possibilities for an uh L_C_D_ and uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , just look at the possibilities then ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I dunno .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because if {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "apparently it's what people want ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's supposed to be a luxurious remote ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How much it will cost",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "maybe it's not even that expensive . Or find a compromise , maybe just a black and white or {disfmarker} for some extra information on it , on your programmes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I doubt it , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But I really need finance information .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Me too . {vocalsound} I mean we all do . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} It will come uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We all do . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Right . I think it's something we should put into consideration . Apparently it's what people want , so . We should see if {disfmarker} what it costs , if it's possible .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah , we should do a little thing about design , because it looks boring really to me . Even if you put it {disfmarker} even if you put a different cover on it , it looks {disfmarker} still looks boring ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Different colours maybe .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . And the design , it should differ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But all {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "This is Philips , huh ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I have no clue .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Philips has this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I just drew something what {disfmarker} which would fit into your hand easily .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I had basically {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Hmm . Uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Something like this . To make it kind of futuristic .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm . Oh , I realise if we make it small , then it needs to be a little thicker ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it's a very {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because I need to put all the electronics in it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sorry ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If we make it s uh smaller , uh less wide , then we need to m make it a little thicker ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because I have to put all the electronics in it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay . Mm-hmm . Yeah , but you have to j just keep in mind it shouldn't be too heavy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I mean we can stick it in in there , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh even if {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "in the worst case we can even {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "what kind of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Could you give me the pen back ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So let's say that people would want an L_C_D_ thing . Let's take take the basic design again , what we {disfmarker} oh , crap {disfmarker} uh came up with . I'll just make it a little bigger now . So a transmitter here . Anyway . We could {disfmarker} let's say we have an L_C_D_ screen , people want an L_C_D_ screen . So then we should probably put it here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't have to be really big , but just just have to be {disfmarker} has to be there .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Think it's a good place , people don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you're reading from top to bottom , I think it's better to put it uh at the top .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No ? It's not that uh {disfmarker} it's not the most important function ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Me too .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's j {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's just an extra thing ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it just {disfmarker} you press the buttons on top ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh . But i if you if you are going to uh put the L_C_D_ on it , {vocalsound} I think it's very important to use it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because your finger is on top .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "uh because it's {vocalsound} {disfmarker} use it uh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How can you use an L_C_D_ screen ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But nee the function of it . {vocalsound} So you can use it maximum , because uh it's a lot {disfmarker} it costs a lot .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but why",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I {disfmarker} I'm not sure .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Now it's pretty much tucked away in your hand .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh if you t if you press a button , you can see it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "ri I'm not sure wha I'm trying to imagine myself what it would look like .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "M I personally would prefer it on the top .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You would prefer it n Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we have three people saying it should be on top .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but then you would would s have to stack away your buttons somewhere else .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But it {disfmarker} Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Anyways .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's expensive to build it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "so",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh this looks a little {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm still not convinced of the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you must use the maximum of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "About the L_C_D_s thing .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well if it if it's",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "if it's possible wi if it's not too expensive , we should include it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "They want it uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because it's it's cool . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} We should just try to make that if it's possible . If it is possible we should really do it , but we need that information .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Huh . Uh . But uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Also keep in mind again , the L_C_D_ screen is very flat , but it needs transistors , resistors , I don't know what more and that needs space . So I have to look if that's possible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I know uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So basically",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But if we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{disfmarker} can I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh we have green now uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "what we have to decide now is uh what goes on top . Do we put the volume control and the channel control here , or do we put it on he Would we like to press it in the middle ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Or maybe we should m we could uh draw draw something a bit {disfmarker} that has it on on on the bottom .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In middle of it . In the middle .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe in a circle for example , like we {disfmarker} like in this example . I think this is not good , but for {disfmarker} we could make circular buttons for example . For up and down , ma make it a circle on it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but we do agree that we {vocalsound} keep this at the centre ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "because it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because it's basically the most important function .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think the channel button should be in the centre .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's the most import yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Channel button should be st stick together , for example here in this section . Because it's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , that would make them quite small .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We're not sure about the size anyway ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So maybe you'd put them here .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "just a general design . You can make it as big as you want . For example if you take uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but a big remote control probably not something which people would like .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "let's see . For example just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If we have a a space issue , we can also lose one battery . It is rechargeable , so we can stick with one instead of two .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't think if we if we even use an L_C_D_ screen , we need to , definitely .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That might be an option . Yeah , but if we need two batteries and an L_C_D_ screen , that means a lot of space that we need .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , but we have to see what the si what the size is .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But it has to be a little bit heavier .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The L_C_D_ doesn't have to nee doesn't need to be very big .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , but the things behind it . {gap} space .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm let's see .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like a process uh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Finish meeting now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Finish meeting now .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's on your computer .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , we will . So either {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So would we like this or would we like the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We either we have to decide what what people want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I like this one more .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Either this one , this this could be the luxurious one . So we have channel buttons here . I'm just drawing something uh . Uh {disfmarker} I think this would this would look cool . You could have it for example {disfmarker} small buttons here for some extra functions ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so if your basic function's here , we should {disfmarker} like we decided before , programmes up and down , and volume here .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Let's see what we have here .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or {disfmarker} And uh what about speech recognition uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well you can just {disfmarker} no , I'm not sure if we can do that ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but we could put a microphone in here for example .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} or or an L_C_D_ or an uh speech .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think it's {disfmarker} L_C_D_ is better now .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just to do research into both , w what it costs and what it takes for space .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'll try to .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But let's cut the meeting for now yes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "One more uh thing I'd like to say , uh let's give this uh a name , and not like some vague serial number that no one understands , like with cars .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Shall we all try uh to think about a name ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I think of a name .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "that's {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , let's think of a name , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah , that's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh , good .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , at anyways , the the minutes will be on the on the web shortly ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "so there we go uh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes , go and finish up and I'll see you at lunch .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Good luck .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , to all .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Same .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I've {disfmarker} Do we uh save the {gap} ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
TS3012d | Product | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"4",
"4"
]
],
"topic": "Review of last meeting"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"5",
"44"
]
],
"topic": "Prototype presentation"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"45",
"238"
],
[
"525",
"542"
]
],
"topic": "Cost reduction and decision on abandonment of certain features"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"278",
"508"
]
],
"topic": "Evaluation of the product"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"551",
"634"
]
],
"topic": "Emphasis of the importance of communications"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"698",
"837"
]
],
"topic": "Name chosen of the product"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The discussion in this meeting focused on detailed design. First of all, the prototype was presented, which was pretty much like what the group had agreed before, including the yellow colour, cover and buttons made by rubber, etc. However, what they had exceeded their expected budget. Therefore, they had discussions on which features were okay to be taken out. They finally agreed on removing speech recognition, and the special colour. Then they did an evaluation of their product, and overall they did well. To sum up this teamwork experience, the Project Manager emphasized the importance of the communications. At last, they had a discussion on the product name, and agreed on \"triple R\".",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "They all agreed that speech recognition could be taken out, because LCD had more support on the customer side, and it did not give an extra function compared to other normal remote controls. As for the special colour, they had some disagreements initially, since User Interface thought it could not reflect the current trend anymore if it was taken out. However, after evaluating dropping other features such as rubber or curve, they agreed that both of them brought more advantages than the special colour. Besides, the colour could be made up by using special covers.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about the cost reduction and abandonment of certain features?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"47",
"238"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Project Manager thought speech recognition was the first option to be scrapped. Project Manager made this decision according to the feedback from customers. Around ninety percent of people preferred an LCD display, while only sixty percent of people wanted speech recognition.",
"query": "What did the Project Manager think of the speech recognition when discussing abandonment of certain features?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"51",
"66"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Industrial Designer proposed to give up the curve, but other people argued that the remote control would turn into something ordinary and be a straightforward remote control. Project Manager thought it would be a good idea to separate their product from the rest of the remote control world. Therefore, they decided to keep the curve.",
"query": "Summarize the decision of removing the curve when discussing abandonment of certain features.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"201",
"223"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "They drafted several potential product names, including \"banana\", \"RC deluxe\", \"real reactor\", \"triple RC\", etc. They concentrated on adjusting the \"triple RC\", and eventually decided on \"triple R\". The group thought this name was cool, and especially looked cool when it was printed in the front, and it was catchy.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the name chosen of the product.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"695",
"834"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "\"Triple RC\" made the product look like a triple remote control, but it was only a single remote control. In addition, the important part was triple R anyway, Real Reaction Remote. Therefore, they decided to drop C from this name, and just keep \"triple R\".",
"query": "What was the advantage of \"triple R\" compared to \"triple RC\" when discussing the name chosen of the product?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"768",
"831"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "They agreed to cross out 'banana remote', 'the deluxe' from the options. They all agreed on the 'triple R' without arguments, because the group thought it looked cool when it was printed out. In addition, it was short and catchy.",
"query": "Summarize the decision of the discussion on the name chosen of the product.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"818",
"831"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Can I close this ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh we don't have any changes , do we ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So no . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} There we go . Okay , here we are again . Detailed design {disfmarker} oh , come on . Well {disfmarker} Ah {gap} s Forgot to insert the minutes , but it's about the same thing we discussed before . Uh {disfmarker} Could open that anyway , think . Other design {disfmarker} anyway , we took as {disfmarker} we took w we took rubber as as the material last time . We also {gap} that you're just busy with it . Took the advanced chip to t uh implement the advanced features . Well , we discussed the design , no sharp corners , we rounded it off , like you see on the {gap} other screen , which is fine . Um {gap} we agreed that the colour should be b uh yellow and black . Yellow in the back because it's m trendy , more trendy than black anyway . So {vocalsound} then we ca yeah . We agreed that we would implement both the L_C_D_ and speech recognition , but I'll get to that in a moment . 'Cause some changes in the finances have left us implications anyway . So so , like I said , we had no insight in finances , no prices ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but we have 'em now , and it's bad . Anyway . We are Oh . Prototype presentation , well first you guys built the prototype . So {vocalsound} you could {gap} {disfmarker} could present that . But um let's see what be handy to do . Nee {disfmarker} no , you just go ahead and present the {disfmarker} w we'll scrap it later because {disfmarker} {gap} What ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think it's more or less the same as we had .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's basically what we agreed upon ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh that's",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but just a little bit more specified .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No much s",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "hasn't changed that much , huh ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No no no , not at all .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I didn't expect anyway {gap} . You just coloured it . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh s Final design . {vocalsound} Basically in {gap} {disfmarker} what we discussed , cover and buttons will be made of rubber , yellow colour , black components , as you can see right over here .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . I like the menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We chose a different type of colour for the menu . A bit darker yellow so that it com really shows in this keypad .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you put them all black , it's not really that good a contrast .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I suppose the the the yellow is not printed on the on the rubber . It's it's part of the rubber , I suppose .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} Probab",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think that's more I think that's more durable anyway than printed on to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . That's the be",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And it {disfmarker} I guess it's more easier to just paint it on the rubber",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "than to uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's uh the integration story again .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah . Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So we have it's a bit round shaped ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "that's what we had uh {disfmarker} We chose the buttons to be uh teletext , okay button , favourite channel and the mute .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's basically what we chose there .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "If you have anything to add , please interrupt me .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No , uh this is just a description of what we see there .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Speaks for itself .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's pretty much it .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay . Now it's my time to ruin everything . Well , not ruin everything , but {disfmarker} no , nah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh sorry . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Finances , that's what we have here , what you drew . We have battery power , we have advanced chips and the sam the sensor . The sample sensor and uh {disfmarker} for speak recognition anyway . So which {disfmarker} you see the {disfmarker} which is de o one of the most expensive parts . So {disfmarker} well , we have sin one curve , {vocalsound} a design . Rubber design . And we had a special colour . Suppose yellow is a special colour . So just half a Euro for {gap} {disfmarker} You have pushbuttons and an L_C_D_ display . You have the total of seventeen Euros in production cost ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "which is higher than the twelve and a half that we are permitted to use . So ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "easy . What do we scrap . Well think I had the best solution that I came up with is just to s take out the speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I d",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I'd say that too .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Because the L_C_D_ has more support on customer side .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There are ninety one percent of uh the people , or something like that . But ninety percent who favour an L_C_D_ display , and only sixty percent that favour speech recognition . I think it's also harder to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh we don't really have a extra function with the speech sample ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "which you can't do with a normal remote control ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . So I ju",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "which people already do . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I took that out . So {disfmarker} and so it's still stuck with thirteen , so I had to take out the special colour I suppose . And , yeah , I didn't see anything else I could take out . Yeah , I could take out the push-buttons ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Pushbut",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but we need those . So , generally what I came up with , in order to be cou to to have production cost of twelve and a half Euros , spe scrap speech recognition",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Special colour , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and the separate covers can account for the {disfmarker} if people want it , we'll just {disfmarker} then we'll do it in black . We'll just deliver it in black , have the {disfmarker} it has all the function that it's supposed to have , and if you want it {disfmarker} if you want the custom design , then you can buy the separate covers .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "You make it d orange or whatever you want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'd {disfmarker} I tend to disagree with you on that , because the trend issue was a big issue when we started designing this .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It was a big issue , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So can't we just basically extend it to thirteen ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'll just go back . Uh let's just {disfmarker} let's see what {disfmarker} okay , let's just see what we {disfmarker} no , we we have to be under twelve and a half .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It {disfmarker} it's not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The p",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "uh the project is a no-go if we go over twelve and a half ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but there's another problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And the p",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But there's another problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "If we take another cover , for instance black , then we also need another button frame , 'cause black and black doesn't work obviously .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think you {disfmarker} that's what you were ass assigned to do really , to to see how b th both those work together .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh . Huh . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I think {disfmarker} yeah , it's {disfmarker} I think it's y one of the {disfmarker} it's a good way to um to help people uh to make {disfmarker} to keep the product trendy too .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just keep {disfmarker} you just make new covers for the {disfmarker} for it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "like we agreed before .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Right . I agree .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And everything that's left is is the basic function that uh that we want our product to have . Because the expensive parts are in either the advanced chip . But we need that for the L_C_D_ display .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . We do .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Then again , we have the L_C_D_ display , which is also expensive . B yeah , but those go together . And yeah , we could take out the curve .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or say let's lose rubber , take plastic .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "We could take out a curve indeed .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Could {disfmarker} we could take out the curve . Is that an option ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For you ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Although we are demolishing a little bit the style .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But uh the {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think the colour is more important than the really the curve ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because if you just end up with an entirely black remote control {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think it's {disfmarker} it it does ruin it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . The people {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but the fact that I t took that decision or t",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Took this example actually , not really decision , but the example is because we do offer the um {vocalsound} the possibility of adding your own custom covers . So you can change {gap} any colour you want . So it's just you deliver a basic remote control with a possibility to change you into whatever you want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Can we then not also uh change the material ? We take plastic for the basic cover",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can take plastic ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I d it's something that's stuck into my mind is that {disfmarker} something that really came forward from the marketing research is that people like the the the the squishy feeling of {disfmarker} the spongy feeling of the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Spongy , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We can put those to the to the other covers .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and it really makes it {disfmarker} also makes it different from the existing remote controls ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because they're all plastic .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So which in in turn {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's true .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Rubber would increase durability",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because it doesn't break .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "okay . But what do you then suggest we'd lose ? Because we have to lose two things and {disfmarker} I guess .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I al like I said , I lost the speech recognition and I lost the special colour ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "which would make this black a black and grey .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , and that's enough ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's that that that's enough , because",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So black and grey is okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I guess those are the basic colours .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} Oh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Which we can fabricate ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think those are basic col They want to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The people want to pay for for it , so why why uh {vocalsound} do we have to keep us uh uh um on the twelve and a half ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "To ensure the profit . That {disfmarker} that's th that's the order . We're just uh {disfmarker} we're the project team and we got our our orders from the pro from the boss of our company",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "which say we don't wanna spend more than twelve fifty for this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But we can take a risk .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But that's not for our {disfmarker} that's not our decision to take . We have a budget of twelve fifty per product .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , we basically {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We need to stick to that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Stick that . I don't think it's really bad either . I mean if we we have the the backup of {disfmarker} or the backup design thing",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I hope the people will like it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "to have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think they would do . Th I think they do like because yo we {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} we agree upon that the that the the the cover thing was a nice idea ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because p you could have all sort of designs while at the same time just manufacturing one product , one basic product which you could turn into any any taste you want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I think it's the best solution to make those cu custom covers for the design aspect",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps we should make m",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and keep the functionality between {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} within the th the boundaries of the your f uh your budget .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The first sheet .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps we should make clear to our customer that we had to do this to stay under the cost . And that's {disfmarker} uh they know that this is an option and that we had to drop the option to stay under the cost , that they know that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Well I don't think {disfmarker} Yeah . Is it worth {disfmarker} is it is it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps they decide tha",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But they don't {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "does it mean anything to the customer ? Like , it {disfmarker} like , we don't care {disfmarker} we don't care that you had to {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Of course . Perhaps {gap} they uh {disfmarker} no , but perhaps they think uh okay , the cover is such a nice idea , uh let's {disfmarker} that that then they uh that allow us to make some more costs .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "True ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "We ca we uh we can at least tell them that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but we did we didn't get that . So I think it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You don't know that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it should either be a pack , maybe we sh that should be sold in in the s in stores with with a standard cover or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , I'm not uh talking about that cost {gap} but the one that g has given us the order to design this . We could at least m uh make it like this , like you said ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "They could , but uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and then tell them okay , we had to drop this and that , just that you know . It is an {disfmarker} still an option , but {vocalsound} not for this price .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's an option , but {disfmarker} yeah , it's true . So actually uh it's not that much of an increase , but yeah . We cannot contact them .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And if we {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's just the order that we got .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Exactly ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that's what we gotta go with .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it's either one fi just just to get it f just to get it through final , it's either {vocalsound} turned into plastic , drop the squishy feel , make it make it more breakable ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "um or turn it yellow . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It's uh something we have to decide on .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'd say lose the curve and the colour",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I say lose the curve . Oh that's true ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we could lose the c I forgot that , yeah , sorry . Uh the curve . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So which curve is that ba",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's just this one just d this is the banana curve .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "that's basically that curve .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So this would this would be straight .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we could u still have the comfort .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that's better .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , uh {disfmarker} no , that would be a curve inside the thing , I guess . No , would ju then it would just be a straight remote . Just like {vocalsound} like that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Which would , yeah , turn it into something far more ordinary . {gap} we could make it yellow then ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I second that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} You second that , you second that we lose the curve .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} No , that it would turn out to be a pretty straight-forward remote control .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that's not really that {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I think it would be a good idea to keep the curve {vocalsound} to separate it from the rest of the remote control world , so to speak .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we keep the curve . So the only only solution is either to use the l y lose the yellow or lose the rubber .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I would {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And I'm in favour of keeping the rubber , because it has more more advantages than the colour yellow has .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Oh . I agree .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . I would say {disfmarker} I would agree with you on the colour ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because that's an extra option , an extra service we can deliver for a little bit of more money .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Yeah , um",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So we can always do that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I guess people are willing to pay for that . So I think we can take that option and just {disfmarker} with uh with the idea in the back of our head that you can customise your remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I think that would still make it a nice product .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , we're final on that . So {vocalsound} it's too bad we can't make the whole super thing . But anyways we're here . Um yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which is basically what we discussed .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "This we discussed just now . That's just now {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} we could just discuss how the project went . I mean , was kind of {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I want to do that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I sort of expected that everything would turn out this way , but because you {disfmarker} yeah , everything cannot be for free . We didn't {disfmarker} I think it was too bad we didn't have the financial info the last time . Because that was {disfmarker} I th",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it was really essential really",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we could have {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "to ma because we spent uh uh entire stage designing a product of which we had no idea what it would cost .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So we just put something {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it's really nor not in stroke with reality actually .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Me too , I felt a bit blind throughout the project ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because in the beginning I had no list of available materials ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think {gap} {disfmarker} would have been .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Materials would be ok",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and then I d had not list of available c finances .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "at least the last meeting I would have expected had to have that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So I suppose {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Let's um {vocalsound} see {gap} um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , let's see if it sells . I mean I suppose this sells , because it's very {disfmarker} {vocalsound} very extended .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well I hope it sells . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Let's {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I suppose it sells ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because it's good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I mean it's got everything for the for the reasonable price , because we didn't know what it's gonna cost anyway .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm . Okay , let's eval evaluate uh the product of us , our design . Um I have some {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh a method , a requirements and scale of . I uh will pre present uh some statements and we will decided together wha what {disfmarker} if it's true or false",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "and uh then we see uh if the requirements of the user are fulfilled or not .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Have been met , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And I will uh make a new blank sheet",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So so the buttons , the look and feel . I thought it was okay , but the advanced uh settings , um screen , audio and channel {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} They're stuck under menu .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which are basically accessible through the menu button .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "We are not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "For the menu . I think those are totally met ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because we we really took them for the {disfmarker} they have the feel they want ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh the menu button is it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hi Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "they have the simplicity they want .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Then it's all uh {disfmarker} S",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think it's very uh very well met . Either two or one maybe .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "One .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we took that {disfmarker} everything they wanted into consideration .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it could either be a two or a one .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So d Oh wait . Uh pen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "One and a half . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Which is not an option . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The p Oh yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Just create our own option . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's red , okay , but {disfmarker} Look and feel is everybo it's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} Anyone ? And the next one {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} yeah , when it's lost uh you can find it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's perfect . Even for deaf people , yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker} I don't think it's perfect , but we did everything possible to to get it back .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "To make it that way , yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because if it's stuck in you couch , you can see the light . Maybe you can hear it . But I mean we tried ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "so I think it {disfmarker} that's {disfmarker} that deserves a one . Definitely .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And it's and it's {disfmarker} yeah . To {gap} . That's okay then . And the next one . How is that ? Uh w we had {disfmarker} we don't have an uh manual ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Manual .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think the L_C_D_ display could be a little bit more difficult then a normal remote control ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But I think that's a part of it . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'd use an {gap} remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but then again , it's for young people . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , an L_C_D_ , it tells a lot about uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it's pretty straight-forward ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I th",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's pretty straight-forward , uh-huh .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "you have a navigation {disfmarker} no keys to navigate through the L_C_D_ menus .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Exactly . No , that's true . I think it won't be a big problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So it's a one",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "One I d no ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "or a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I don't know .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "actu",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker} but we didn't even {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "For the advanced uh settings .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "there was no issue on making a manual actually . We didn't {disfmarker} {gap} really discuss it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No okay , that {disfmarker} uh that's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but I don't think it takes {disfmarker} no , it really does doesn't take time to learn , I think . We took it s it's so easy ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it it is pretty straight-forward .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , so it {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we have so little button , everything speaks for itself really . So I think that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah . Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah , we didn't {disfmarker} it's either two or one , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Takes no ti",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe it's a two , because d uh the L_C_D_ is a little is a little new and there is {disfmarker} there are some option hidden under the menu button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "With the more important functions on .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I might make this a two instead of a one , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "And the L_C_D_ , you have to see it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So just make that a two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um mm {disfmarker} Oh , it's a little bit learning . Okay . Uh yeah {vocalsound} it's uh a little bit same .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But it tells you or not ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You can use the L_C_D_ in a good way . I think so . I think it's perfect , the w where it is , what it can do , if it useful . I think so .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But wha w",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "oh , yeah . What are we uh displaying on the L_C_D_ screen ? Just uh only the channels and {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} the menus uh {disfmarker} Things like brightness and uh those kind of things we've put in the menu ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "What uh ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because we have no buttons for those .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Well , basically the menu options indeed . But {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh , in the L_C_D_ screen .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , y I mean in the L_C_D_ screen , the small screen . What does it display ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "And for a channel selection , uh {gap} {disfmarker} or that's not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I thought it was I thought it was {disfmarker} I thought that people wanted previews on their {disfmarker} I'm not sure if that even possible ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I thought I thought too",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "'cause it's {disfmarker} this requires a quite quite a bit of band-width .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it's possible really . But the {disfmarker} they didn't really define in what should be used for .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Maybe a T_V_ guide or something in your L_C_D_ uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I think in for example like T_V_ guides , I think that's {disfmarker} that th that you can transmit through it and everything . Just for extra information on your programmes .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah , it must be clear then what {disfmarker} what what for we use it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But also things like like like menus or p how about preferences of your {disfmarker} uh with configuring your remote control for favourite {disfmarker} your favourite channel for example , how do you configure that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that could be done by L_C_D_ display . I think it's good . No , maybe it's not a one because it's {disfmarker} we're not using it perfectly . We didn't give it {disfmarker} I don't thing over-discussing . Now we gave it enough thought though . I think we d should just lower this .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Maybe maybe it's a three though . We could've used it more effectively probably .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , indeed .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So everybody's agree with an uh three on it ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , we are using it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Two or three .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but it's not",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "W",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's not poorly used , but it's not efficiently used , I think .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We could have ev even lost {vocalsound} the selection button and uh done everything via L_C_D_ selection .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's {disfmarker} now it's just extra to illustrate im uh extra features ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {gap} I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "A three .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Nah , it's not really {disfmarker} only an extra .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can {disfmarker} seven . {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No menus .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ah , nothing , that's {vocalsound} {disfmarker} A seven . Uh that's uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Think about {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Can you talk to remote control ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or we could say it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Well , it can't talk anymore . So we scrap that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Or we could say neutral ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we {disfmarker} 'cause we scratched the {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Just to be a prick ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "C",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "but of course you can talk to your remote control , it doesn't do anything .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} Yeah yeah yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But you c {vocalsound} you can talk to it .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Not with the speech recognition . Uh yeah , all the trends and no colours uh anymore . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , we did take everything into consideration of course . Uh the shape i shape is i",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {gap} {disfmarker} uh um only in the curves .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we {disfmarker} yeah , I think that's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But the colours , we don't have special colours on it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No , we don't have the colour .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {gap} special co but we took into consideration the fact that it's customisable",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "to the fashi",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but we {vocalsound} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yes , but the end product {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah , we don't have it , so d",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "We don't have it {disfmarker} we do have it ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "In the end product .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's just sold as a package .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But {disfmarker} M",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It does {disfmarker} it's not part of the basic product .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Changing covers is also trend that we followed .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It {disfmarker} that that's what I call trendy . I mean the shape is trendy .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The the sh the the functions are trendy . It's just the colours that are not supporting the basic model . Because you ha",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Now {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "it's just not affordable at the moment .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Maybe we should go with a two then ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But it's not a one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because it's not perfect , because we can't do it initially ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but we {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's possible ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but you have to pay extra for the for the possibility of having it in a f a different colour .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh well {disfmarker} Oops .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh it's a two ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "right ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "On the last one . Uh that n that's all .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Overall score . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Overall score .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Overall . {vocalsound} It's um",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "One two three . {gap} sixteen .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} ten , sixteen three {disfmarker} uh two",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Two two point some two point something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "two point seven or something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don't know why .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ten , sixteen , divided by {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Six .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Six .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Is two two third .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Two and two thirds .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker} So",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "we can say it's it's {disfmarker} the product is {disfmarker} it's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's okay , but {vocalsound} that's yo m",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Y not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "mostly it's it's influenced by the fact that we didn't have enough resources to implement speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "There's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "'Cause yeah , that gives you a seven , which ruins your your average .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Without that it would be like under {disfmarker} it wouldn't {disfmarker} yeah , it would be under two . So I think we have {disfmarker} even with this it's reasonable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Woah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , if we make it into a four , as in neutral , because we didn't implement it , so we can't say that we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that it's really not well implemented . We come out on a average of two one eighth .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I think it's {disfmarker} two is okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So which is pretty w good .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , two is pretty good .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's at least on the positive side .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Definitely .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker} We could definitely have done better if we've had more resources ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm , of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think it's probably {disfmarker} {gap} I",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I do admit that we d {vocalsound} did miss a little {disfmarker} or didn't sp didn't talk {gap} {disfmarker} talk enough about the possibility of the L_C_D_ display . We could have used it more efficiently ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we just didn't think of it that way .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , with {gap} . ..#",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "True .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So {gap} {disfmarker} like I said , {vocalsound} changing channels , everything hidden in your L_C_D_ display , so you just need the navigation buttons to do everything .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The scale .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "But I think for this price , this is {disfmarker} it's really a reasonable product .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think we div I think we did very well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It's a good product .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "uh ev even if you look at this score , we did quite well .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh . Oh . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "With an L_C_D_ screen {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It just looking for improvements what what you could have improved . So . {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But if pep people really want speech recognition , then they must be prepared to pu to pay more , because it's cannot be done for this .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} They sh they should get kids , and just stick 'em in T_V_ and say change the channel . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "you can make 'em another one .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Ah but for this price uh you cannot ask that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I don' think so . Uh it's just not {disfmarker} it it's not affordable .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You cannot th think of that {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Or your sh you should lose the L_C_D_ screen probably ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No , it's not .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I think that's {disfmarker} I think the L_C_D_ screen is more worth than speech recognition .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . Oh It's also more attractive .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Definitely . Okay , that was that .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that's the final product without the speakers , I guess .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So did you {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Let's see , what was left in the the {disfmarker} Another one . {vocalsound} Hmm . {vocalsound} Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "we evaluate the product . {gap} {disfmarker} General project , what's i in {disfmarker} For example , I thou I thought we were pretty creative in what we created . We took the whole new approach of making exchangeable cover for example , which I thought was pretty creative , because it was never never ever listed somewhere .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Favourite channel .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well {disfmarker} Anyways . Yeah , leadership is up to you . I mean perhaps I screwed up because I d {vocalsound} put a put a speech recognition into it . But that's not for me to decide .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I know . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we did pretty well as team-work though . Because , yeah was very hard to work with one another if you cannot communicate in the meantime ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes . Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "because when I got the when I got the input for the financial results , initially of course I wanted to contact you .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , you're working separate .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Say , look , this is {disfmarker} you're doing the wrong thing ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "you're s you're wasting your time now , because we're implementing stuff that we cannot afford .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , yeah yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So it would be better if y if there was more communication between uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah yeah yeah . Direct uh communication with {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because that's that's what would w you {disfmarker} what you would normally do , either call or email someone .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "And we could share information which we received .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "So that was too bad",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "con was impossible here anyways . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's the same thing that I had in the beginning . Everybody was using materials that s I didn't have .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It didn't have",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or didn't knew what they costs or whatever .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "There was just too little information about what things actually cost and if you could use them .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So that was a little unclear I suppose . I think a SMARTboard SMARTboard is pretty cool . I think uh s especially for design issues , it's very easy just to give your give your thoughts a little {disfmarker} it's easier to share them .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} My handwriting is little bit {disfmarker} yeah . Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Although for actual design I'd say the response time should be a little bit higher ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's a little less {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} the response time is le it's very bad .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "because {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's good to visualise everything , but I think the response time should {disfmarker} could be a lot better .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The digital pen was definitely better to draw my ideas and to further elaborate on that .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But th that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Definitely .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's true .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "But there's uh also one problem with this I noticed . Uh you have to finish a page before going to a n",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , you don't have to . No , you don't .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I jin I didn't check the finish button .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I just {disfmarker} you just ditch it and you can copy it or whatever .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Done and then it's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , I saw that uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh only if you uh check the notes or {vocalsound} press done . Then it um {disfmarker} then you can {disfmarker} then it exports to Word automatically .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "But it's not necessary to check either one of those two .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You can just preview your p you can just preview your page in the in the programme .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but I made {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh , okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , but I made three pages",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and they were not finished . And when the third one was finished , I wanted to download it and then it was not possible anymore , because you have to close all the pinnits uh the pages before going further . {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , before starting a ne a new page .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , that could be b .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Exactly . So we cannot work on more than one page at same time . That's not possible .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You have to finish it completely ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh can you ? Okay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "then download it , it's {disfmarker} then start a new one .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "That's not very uh handy ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but if you know that , then it's not a problem .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , it's understandable , okay . {vocalsound} Any new ideas ? Yeah , more communication between {vocalsound} between uh {disfmarker} that's the thing I noticed , that communication is very um very important ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Important to mm {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "because if you get new information , it's essential f for the other team-mates to know that as soon as possible , because you would avoid making {disfmarker} doing extra work , because you were doing extra work now uh m working on the on the speech recognition , you have limitation both on the technical {gap} {disfmarker} on the d on the design side .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So I think that could have been better . But that's {disfmarker} I think it's more of a a setting here that you cannot communicate than uh {gap} than somewhere else .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , well it could also possibly be {disfmarker} well , is it a more real-time information base , so we can all see {vocalsound} which information is available to one another .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , I think so . And l less p less spam probably . I'm not sure i I'm not sure you got spammed as well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "but I get spammed like every t every two minutes there was a {disfmarker} there was another email about master classes or something .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Ah . Well {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "which were totally useless actually . I thought I should probably look into them , {vocalsound} but they were all useless . So I just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , I personally did not have that ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Mm {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "but {disfmarker} That's probably your l description .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "But I also didn't {disfmarker} not really . But still , you had that as well . Is that we finished up the design",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then we checked the website ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "and then there was just extra information .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , after {disfmarker} After five minutes , uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "There was a little delay in the {disfmarker} {gap} bit of a c crucial delay .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I didn't have any uh more information , it's just always the same here . So that's that's kind of a {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Email uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It would change , but not for me . So I'd {disfmarker} I had no extra information to go on that one than what you give me actually .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I couldn't do any research myself",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "or {disfmarker} I see , that's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "yeah , w I could have done a little extra work probably , then {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} But I was busy enough anyway . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Any new ideas found ? Or is that a {gap} 'cause {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh yeah , it's {disfmarker} well ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "No .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "probably is .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "How much time do we have for this anyway ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I have no clue . That's like {disfmarker} oh,but it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Should i",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "if the project is evaluated and it was it was in b within budget , we should celebrate . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "bring out the beer .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Champagne .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Uh okay , think that's about it . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I want one for my own . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure what we should still do though uh t let's see what {disfmarker} all your tasks were finished , right ? What you ha from your assistant . So let's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I have no more email . My coach is uh being very silent now .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah ,",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I should {disfmarker} I think I sh",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "my personal coach i",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I still have the the total report to finish up . I think we took very little time now , because {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , we're in agreement , everything {disfmarker} the design is okay . The one thing we missed though , we don't have a product name .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "What {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "How about you cook a {disfmarker} how about you cook up a product name ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Product name .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "we haven't think above {disfmarker} about that .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , name .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Huh . It's better than thi I think than a serial number . Sony uh T_R_ something uh f means nothing to me . Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or fruit name .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "oh , think of a catchy name . I'll be working on this until the beep {disfmarker} until it beeps . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like fruit names .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Fruit name or something like that .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "What ? Fruit ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The banana remote or something .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "You don't want it to resemble a banana .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I don't know . Yeah , it's the form of it .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It's not yellow anyway .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The bana 'cause it's not yellow anymore .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "It's not yellow anymore .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah {disfmarker} oh , yeah . {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "It is curved , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Uh yeah . {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well , uh I was going for the R_C_ deluxe , but it's not really a catchy name or anything ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "No ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "it's more {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "it's {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Uh at least it's not something with numbers .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Numbers are so meaningless to the people . I mean {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Something with our {gap} company name ,",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's true .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "can we do anything with that ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Maybe there's something on the website which will help us out .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Reaction , Real Reaction .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Real Reaction .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "The reaction deluxe .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Real Reaction future R_C_ . {vocalsound} Step into the future of of remote controlling your T_V_ . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Is that a name or a c campaign ? {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No that's a that's a catchy slogan .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Control your remote control .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Or the {disfmarker} The real reactor .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Real react .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I go for future R_C_ probably . Something like {disfmarker} It's short f",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "The Real Reactor , I don't find that uh that bad at all .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Real reactor ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh that that's",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "You should write it down as a {disfmarker} an option .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Because our name is Real Reaction .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That makes me think of different {vocalsound} products than a remote control really .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure . Real reaction in a real {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Zapping . The {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "So that's one option .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Real reactor . Didn't notice .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I'm looking for things in the name .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "So that the first three letters are s the same . R_E_A_ R_E_A_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Should I write the banana down or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I take f",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "yeah , take a banana .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Sure ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The banana .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Remote . Banana recei R_C_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "The triple R_ . Real Reaction remotes control . Triple R_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Well I {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "R_ three C_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Uh do you mean it like {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "R_ three C_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "You mean it like this ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , that {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Real Reaction Remote Control . R_ three C_ . Oh yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "No , not like that . It should be it should be longer , because it's not a product name that you f print on a box .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I think {disfmarker} triple R_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just write out triple , like a word triple R_C_ , triple stripe {disfmarker} Oh . Triple dash R_ dash s s C_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Doesn't sound {gap} ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , triple R_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . Ah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Triple R_C_ . The triple R_C_ , yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "R_ s R_ three C_ . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} R_ dash C_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Dash C_ ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I think I like it like this more .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Dash . Triple R_ or triple R_C_ ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Like a C_ right now or a dash in a C_ ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Triple R_ dash .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "How about do both ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Sure if it looks stupid . Uh I think that the the R_C_ together takes away the the the image of {disfmarker} it's a triple {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Hmm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh the first the first one looks like it's a triple remote control ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "but it's only a single remote control . And it's especially on the triple R_ that's important . The Real Reaction Remote .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "I would {disfmarker} huh . I would lose the C_",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , this {disfmarker} yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "and just name it triple R_ .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Is it triple R_C_s ? No .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It sounds like uh thinking about two different things and combining it .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Triple remote .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I would just say triple R_s triple R_",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , triple R_ {gap} yeah , you can {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Well , that's another option .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That's also short , catchy .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "It's okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Yeah , triple R_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay , so which ones are we going to scratch definitely ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} The banana . {vocalsound} Banana . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Banana remote . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Banana . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} I say this one as well .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , the deluxe .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I think we're all in agreement about the triple R_ .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "I think triple R_ is cool .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yes .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Triple R_ ?",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "The r triple R_ .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "And it looks cool when you print it in font , looks pretty cool .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Triple R_ it is .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah . {vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} did you do now ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Just like this {gap} just {disfmarker} and you just print triple R_ , it looks {disfmarker} doesn't look bad ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "it's short , it's okay .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So have to write my report now , I guess . Um {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} Yeah , so we have everything . We have the product , we have the costs ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yep .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "we have the possibility of everything .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "It can't work . That will not {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay . I think it's adjourned . Retire to my lair and finish the report . That was a short meeting . But efficient though .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm-hmm . The boss is always the last one to go home . So {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Probably . See . Okay ,",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "goodbye .",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "See you in a minute .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Damn . I will write that one in a Word uh document .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Could you guys draw me a picture of the final design to put on the cover of the report ?",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Can't we take this one ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh sh",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Otherwise we have to do it all over again .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Um {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I don't really know whether we can save it as a picture or no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Is it okay if I try ? Is that okay with you ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah , okay , I will ask you when uh I need the information .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I'll put it back in a minute .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "So it's {disfmarker} oh .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay , it has been saving something , but where to I don't know .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh {disfmarker} Oh . Merge .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , can I say exp yes , I can .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sucks .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Export as J_ PEG . {gap} . Okay , can I not put this wherever I wants . My document is the wrong one , huh .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{gap} {disfmarker} Yeah , but {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Network places .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't know . Smart {disfmarker} no .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{gap} .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Ma it's maybe it's not on the network of uh the rest .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "That one is . {gap} .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I wouldn't pick that one , no .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Document and settings .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "That's a pity . That means that we have to gonna draw it again . Are you gonna do that ?",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Sure .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "That {disfmarker} Yes . Okay . Okay . Okay . Yes , that's correct .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound} Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "No . Oh , it's export .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Oh yeah , {gap} . {gap} {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Okay .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Can I see scores ?",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Oh , of course .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Uh , {gap} one one , two threes , two {disfmarker}",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "Sorry .",
"speaker": "Industrial Designer"
},
{
"content": "Okay , then we'll {disfmarker} overall , two points . Yes .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "I see you later .",
"speaker": "User Interface"
},
{
"content": "Yeah .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
},
{
"content": "{vocalsound}",
"speaker": "Project Manager"
},
{
"content": "Mm .",
"speaker": "Marketing"
}
] |
covid_0 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"42"
]
],
"topic": "Members from different areas in Canada presented their petitions and statements about the social crisis during the COVID-19"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"43",
"76"
]
],
"topic": "The potential flaws and possible improvements to the government's current policy"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"76",
"112"
]
],
"topic": "The concern about Canada's job market and domestic production of personal protective equipment"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"117",
"153"
]
],
"topic": "The debate over the domestic and foreign affairs of Canada"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"185",
"206"
]
],
"topic": "The debate over the policies to protect minorities such as pensioners and disabled people"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"222",
"240"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about industries in Canada such as agriculture, tourism and fishing that were struck seriously by the pandemic"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"241",
"301"
]
],
"topic": "Debate over the fiscal stress caused by the pandemic"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "It was a heated debate between the opposition party and the ministers. The members from the opposition parties first pointed out some flaws in the government's current measures in hoping to better implement them. However, some of their suggestions were either not adopted or avoided. The opposition party also addressed their concerns towards fiscal pressure, employment market and production of personal protective equipment in the midst of the pandemic. The ministers listed a roll of policies that was either already in place or going to be. Finally, the opposition party named a few industries in Canada such as agriculture, tourism and fishing that were struck seriously by the pandemic. The ministers promised that more financial support was coming in order to engineer Canada's economy.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The leader of the opposition party raised the point that some companies which had purchased other companies might not be eligible for the wage subsidy program, and money allocated for the wage subsidy was going unspent because the government had left in unnecessarily rigid barriers for companies to be able to access it. However, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs argued that the wage subsidy program was supposed to reach out to as many companies as possible, and the wage subsidy was really put in place by a large amount of money to protect workers across Canada.",
"query": "Summarize the debate about the flaws in government`s pandemic relief program.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"43",
"69"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The leader of the opposition party wished to know that race-based or discriminatory police practices still exist across Canada. The minister reassured that there would not be such a thing in the police system. And also, the opposition party questioned about the inadequate long-term care facilities in Canada, and the minister stressed that the government saw it as a matter of utmost concern and urgency.",
"query": "How did racism and long-term care related to government's policy?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"70",
"76"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Members from the opposition party questioned that employers from industry, businesses and community organizations that have been approved in the Canada summer jobs program had not yet received the money they are entitled to. The Minister of Families, Children and Social Development answered that they were putting in strength to reinforce the program and allow it in reaching out to more unemployed students. Members from the opposition party raised their concern towards the weak job market due to the COVID-19, but the Minister argued that they were still tackling obstacles to implement this policy in reality.",
"query": "Summarize the questioning about Canada summer jobs program.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"76",
"87"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Since the government cancelled contracts with companies that were not able to meet Canadian standards, the member highlighted that it should be supporting more local companies for production. The minister answered that the government had been running multiple complementary supply chains at the same time, and were signing contracts with few more domestic companies. However, the opposition party was skeptical about those companies and other possible companies receiving sufficient funds for production.",
"query": "Summarize the questioning about the local production of surgical masks, protective gowns and N95 masks.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"88",
"112"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Minister of Canadian Heritage explained that the government remained committed to maintaining the openness and transparency during the crisis. However, the opposition party questioned about the allocation of $35 billion of infrastructure money. The opposition party suspected that the money went to personal salary and this doubt was not clarified enough during the later discussion.",
"query": "What did the opposition party and the minister debated about transparency of information during pandemic crisis?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"117",
"144"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to the introduction of the opposition party, it has the power to introduce supply day motions and test government confidence. And the opposition party hoped that through this regime, Canada would take stronger diplomatic action on Hong Kong and gave more support for 300,000 Canadians living there. The Minister of Foreign Affairs promised that the Canada government would be continuing to raise voices to stand up for the people of Hong Kong.",
"query": "How was the reopening of the House of Commons related to the diplomatic relations of Canada?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"146",
"153"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food promised that under the circumstances, the government was doing its best to make the advance payments. Some of the delays were caused by staff having to work remotely. However, the opposition party suggested that there was policy change that made the eligibility for these loans more difficult during the middle of the pandemic. The minister explained that they were still constantly working with the administrators of the program.",
"query": "Why was the advance payment program delayed?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"155",
"168"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The opposition party raised the problem that thousands of Canadian workers were exposed and vulnerable, and might experience bankruptcy anytime. The opposition party also stated that the changes the government made last year to bankruptcy insolvency laws were largely cosmetic and would not protect workers' and pensioners' livelihoods once bankruptcy hits. The Minister explained that they were continuing to absolutely ensure that pensions are protected.",
"query": "What was the discussion about amendments of policies on protecting workers' and pensioners' rights?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"185",
"196"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The minister explained that the government was committed to advancing on the issues that have been identified by Canadians with disabilities and they were continuing that engagement. However, the opposition party argued that the support was delayed several times. The minister argued that they had done a lot, such as establishing the COVID-19 disability advisory group, comprising experts in disability inclusion.",
"query": "What was the debate about government providing direct financial assistance to people living with disabilities?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"197",
"206"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The opposition party stated that the government announced investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada, but it was not enough. There would be job losses and permanent closures of restaurants and boardwalk shops. The Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages explained that those who had experienced losses would be able to have access to the wage subsidy, the rent relief program, the CEBA and ACOA funding. Also, another minister explained that the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance had committed an additional $1 billion to help those businesses that fall through the cracks.",
"query": "How was the tourism industry in Canada being affected, and what was the government`s implementations to ease the loss?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"222",
"240"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The minister placed assurance on coming out with a broader plan once the pandemic situation became more stable economically. At the same time, coming into this pandemic in a strong fiscal position with the lowest amount of debt among the G7 countries gave the government opportunities to invest on behalf of Canadians, and they would continue to take that approach. And the minister promised that there would not be higher taxes.",
"query": "How was the government going to deal with overwhelming federal debt?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"241",
"267"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The opposition party stressed that the government needed to present a picture of the economic situation and a picture of its overall emergency measures. The minister explained that they felt that it was very important to consider what that need to do in each phase of the recovery. Thus,they would not announce an overall recovery plan any sooner.",
"query": "What was the debate over the economic recovery plan?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"291",
"301"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 14thmeeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybrid meeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Speaker's chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using their earpiece at their desk. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating by video conference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We'll now proceed to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are none. Now we'll proceed to the tabling of documents. Mr.LeBlanc has a document he wants to table. Go ahead, Mr.LeBlanc.",
"speaker": "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.))"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, a report entitled \"Democracy Matters, Debates Count: A report on the 2019 Leaders' Debates Commission and the future of debates in Canada. Mr. Chair, on behalf of all of us, I want to thank the Right Honourable David Johnston for his continued service.",
"speaker": "Hon. Dominic LeBlanc"
},
{
"content": "Good. We'll now proceed to the presenting of petitions, for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that you please come to the front and drop off your certificate at the table once the petition has been presented. In presenting petitions, the first presenter today is Mr. Genuis.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to be presenting a petition in support of Bill S-204. This is a bill in the Senate, put forward by Senator Salma Ataullahjan. It would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ for which there has not been consent by the donor. It also creates a mechanism by which someone could be deemed inadmissible to Canada if they were involved in organ harvesting and trafficking. This bill is designed to confront and address the horrific practice by which, in certain casesfor instance, inside Chinaminority communities or dissidents may be targeted and have their organs removed as they're killed and used for transplantation. Petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204, and they want to see it passed as soon as possible.",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Our next petition will go to Mr. Viersen.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I am presenting a petition today signed by Canadians who are concerned that Bill C-7 removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime, including the mandatory 10-day waiting period. Mr. Chair, these people who are signing this petition would like to see an improvement in assisted living, not assisted dying.",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace RiverWestlock, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Ms. Zahid.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to present an e-petition signed by over 40 people. It asks that the Government of Canada recognize the Republic of Somaliland as an autonomous state that may result in foreign investments, direct access of development aid, foreign aid for disaster relief and infrastructure development investment loans.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Now we'll proceed to Statements by Members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. Each statement will be for a maximum of one minute. I remind members that if they exceed that time limit, they will be interrupted. Our first statement goes to Monsieur El-Khoury.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I thank the government for the way it has managed this global crisis and its impact on Canadians. It has acted in a robust, rapid and very effective way. Our Prime Minister has been awarded the medal of honour, courage and humanity worldwide. Canada is one of the few countries that has acted in the best interests of its citizens and maintained their dignity in these uncertain times. While addressing Canadians, our right honourable Prime Minister showed us leadership, the importance of transparency, and integrity. He kept us united. His top priority was saving lives, along with finding realistic solutions regarding the economic impact on our daily life. Because of his outstanding leadership, we're admired across the world, which is another distinguished privilege of being Canadian. Thank you, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Mr. Fayal El-Khoury (LavalLes les, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Epp.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "COVID-19 has emptied food banks across Canada, even in an agricultural community like Chatham-Kent, so Wes Thompson and James Rasmussen, along with Alysson Storey, Randi Bokor, Maureen Geddes, Chris and Terry Johnston, Jason King, Fannie Vavoulis and Brent Wilken, grew an idea into the community's largest-ever food drive. Project manager Morna McDonald estimates that over 3,000 volunteers ended up helping in the May 16 Miracle. Residents put non-perishable foodstuffs on their doorsteps, with drop-off centres organized for rural areas. Volunteer groups travelled predetermined routes while maintaining physical distancing. The community collected an amazing 678,000 pounds of food. They accidentally exceeded by over 20% the record in the Guinness World Records book for collected food in a single day. Chatham-Kent has restocked their food banks and reaffirmed their community pride. It's an honour to represent such a community.",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp (Chatham-KentLeamington, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Sarai. We have a point of order from Mr. d'Entremont.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "As much as I like seeing my friends on the big screens, there are no big screens yet, so we don't know who's on and who's not on. I was wondering if there was going to be a TV coming up soon here, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris d'Entremont (West Nova, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "There is a technical issue, and it is being worked on. We're working on it as we go through. The other alternative is that we suspend until we fix it. If it's okay, we'll just continue. I think we can all hear the members who are speaking. This is one of the realities of a virtual or hybrid system. Our next statement will go to Mr. Sarai.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair, and mabuhay to all the Filipino Canadians across this country. In June across Canada we recognize Filipino Heritage Month to raise awareness and celebrate the Filipino community. Here in Surrey Centre, and across Canada, the Filipino community makes important contributions to our cities and has helped shape Canada into the vibrant multicultural society that we all know and love today. Now more than ever, during these challenging times we must come together as Canadians to celebrate the rich heritage and history of our Filipino neighbours. Throughout June, please join me in celebrating our fellow citizens of Filipino descent by recognizing all the incredible ways in which they have contributed to making Canada a better place for all of us. Happy Filipino Heritage Month. Thank you, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Mr. Randeep Sarai (Surrey Centre, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Perron.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Good afternoon, Mr.Chair. Today is World Milk Day, and I would like to recognize the exceptional work and dedication shown by everyone in the industry. They ensure we have a nutritious, high quality product every day. Let's take part in the local consumption movement and rediscover the exceptional products of our dairy producers and processors. Enjoy the yogurts, cheeses and other products because it's true that milk is good. I would also like to thank BrunoLetendre, outgoing chair of the Producteurs de lait du Qubec, and I congratulate the new chair, DanielGobeil. The dairy industry has been sacrificed several times in trade agreements. The government's broken promises are piling up. The payment of compensation is still uncertain. Action must be taken. The first step must be the direct allocation of import quotas to processors, and the second must be the full payment of the promised compensation. We demand a formal commitment from the government.",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves Perron (BerthierMaskinong, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Mr.Iacono.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, June is Italian Heritage Month. The situation is special this year, since Italy has been hard hit by COVID-19, with more than 30,000deaths. Like me, many Italian Canadians still have family and friends in Italy, and the news has sometimes been very difficult to take, yet that has not detracted from the great co-operation that exists between Canada and Italy. Today I would like to highlight the solidariet italiana in our community. During the pandemic, Canadians of Italian descent have been united to support anziani, our famiglie and our amici in Italy by participating in the fundraising campaign COVID-19 AiutiAMO lItalia to support the Italian Red Cross response activities. I send a special salute to to my cugino Giuseppe, who is still on the road to recovery from COVID-19. ",
"speaker": "Mr. Angelo Iacono (Alfred-Pellan, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll continue with Mr. Kram.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I would like to acknowledge all of the organizations in Saskatchewan and across Canada that are working hard to help small businesses adapt to the challenges of the current pandemic. In particular, I would like to thank the Regina Downtown Business Improvement District, or RDBID. As soon as the pandemic hit, RDBID launched a daily electronic newsletter to keep their members informed of support programs, local initiatives and local success stories. They have used their social media channels on a daily basis to promote takeout and delivery services, online and curbside services offered by restaurants and retailers. They have also launched a number of their own initiatives to help businesses access e-commerce. Through persistent communication and a lot of long hours, RDBID has helped businesses in downtown Regina to weather the storm. Because of their hard work, downtown Regina will come through this pandemic better than ever.",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Kram (ReginaWascana, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Lauzon now has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, high-speed Internet will be to the 21stcentury what electricity was to the 20th: an essential service. We are currently experiencing a drastic change in our morals, our consumption patterns and our socialization habits. We are turning to the Internet to read the news, contact our friends and complete our purchases. Isolation associated with COVID-19 has only accelerated this trend. Unfortunately, not all regions of Canada have reliable, affordable, high-speed access. I would like to reassure the citizens of my riding about the efforts that we are making as a government, but also about the work I've been doing as a member of Parliament since2015 to connect the 41municipalities of ArgenteuilLa Petite-Nation. Aside from this essential service, our students, seniors, entrepreneurs and telework are very important to the regions. We have heard you, and I will continue to fight for you, so that you can have access to affordable high-speed Internet.",
"speaker": "Mr. Stphane Lauzon (ArgenteuilLa Petite-Nation, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go on to Mr. MacKinnon.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, a few days ago, we all watched with horror and outrage the death of an unarmed black man at the hands of the police in Minneapolis. For many of us, these images may seem shocking, but it's an all too familiar tale to millions of black people not only in the United States but also here in Canada, in my city of Gatineau and around the world, who must at times live with the scourge of anti-black racism. Mr.Chair, I can't know what it's like to be black in our society. What I do know, however, is that you and I, and everyone in this House, have the power and the responsibility to make our country more just. Let us all recommit ourselves to that endeavour. Black Canadians and all those who have to endure racism and discrimination are watching us, and they expect more from us.",
"speaker": "Mr. Steven MacKinnon (Gatineau, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Duncan is next.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Without a doubt, these past few months have been challenging, to say the least, from both a health and economic perspective, but, Mr. Chair, I have to say how proud I am of my community of StormontDundasSouth Glengarry. We continue to successfully flatten the curve in our region and, just as importantly, we are making sure that we are here for each other, whether it is the Cornwall Optimists' GoFeedMe campaign, the Iroquois-Matilda Lions Club delivering groceries to those who are quarantined in their households or the local United Way, the Social Development Council or the Carefor seniors support centre co-leading an effort to deliver 1,500 baskets to seniors in need. There have been many examples of kindness and generosity from our community. I rise today in the House of Commons to say thank you to my constituents and to all Canadians; to our essential front-line workers, our service clubs and our businesses that have stepped up to help out; and to everybody playing their part to get us through this challenge. I couldn't be more proud of my community and my residents, and it is an honour to serve as their member of Parliament. Thank you, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Mr. Eric Duncan (StormontDundasSouth Glengarry, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Ms. Yip.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, although Asian Heritage Month has just passed, we recognize the tremendous effort of all Asian Canadians on the front lines of this pandemic, as health care providers or as essential workers. I want to thank the many Asian organizations for donating to ScarboroughAgincourt's hospital, long-term care homes and food banks. As a Canadian born and raised in Scarborough, I'm offended by the reports of violence and vandalism targeting Asian-Canadian communities across this country. In budget 2019 we invested $45 million to launch a new anti-racism strategy, which included the establishment of the anti-racism secretariat, because these efforts are unfortunately clearly still needed. As events continue to unfold in the United States, it is important to recognize that we have work to do here as well. Whether it is anti-black or anti-Asian, racism and discrimination of any kind have no place in Canadafull stop. Now more than ever, we must stand united in diversity.",
"speaker": "Ms. Jean Yip (ScarboroughAgincourt, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go on to Mr. Bragdon.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Over the last few months, Canadians throughout New Brunswick and across the country have stepped up to support their community. Health care workers, truckers, farmers, business owners, pharmacists, grocery store staff, faith-based and non-profit organizations and so many others have all answered the call to do their part. Today, Mr. Chair, I would like to specifically highlight the work of those who support and take care of our seniors, who are among some of our most at-risk citizens. It has been said that the character of a nation and its people is revealed most in how they treat their most vulnerable. Our seniors have made immense contributions to our society. Many have put their lives on the line to protect Canada and the democratic freedoms we enjoy as Canadians. They have worked hard and made many sacrifices throughout their lives to make Canada the greatest nation on earth. Taking care of our seniors is the right thing to do. I want to take this opportunity to thank all those who are supporting and caring for our seniors. Whether they be long-term care staff, personal care workers, health care professionals, family members or volunteers, thank you for all you are doing in support of our seniors. Together we shall overcome.",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Bragdon (TobiqueMactaquac, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Ms. Shin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Although we've come to the end of Asian Heritage Month, I'd like to acknowledge some unsung Chinese Canadian heroes who shed their blood as patriots for our nation. I commemorate the 6,500 Chinese Canadians of the 9,000 railway workers who helped build and unite Canada. I pay respect to the many Chinese Canadians who died while building the CP Railway on the most dangerous terrains in the B.C. segment. I honour the Chinese Canadians who served and died in World War II. Sadly, Asian communities in Canada face racist incidents today. No one should be afraid of walking in their own neighbourhood. Adult children should not have to call their elderly parents to tell them to stay home because they might be attacked by racists. There's no justification for racial slurs, physical violence or vandalism against any individual or community. I will continue to work together with other elected officials, the police and the RCMP to mitigate these issues toward justice and restoration.",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin (Port MoodyCoquitlam, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go on to Mr. Angus. Mr. Angus, please proceed.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Ten years ago today, Cree youth leader Shannen Koostachin was killed in a horrific car accident. She was only 15 years old, yet in her short life she became the voice of a generation of first nation youth who were no longer willing to put up with systemic discrimination. Shannen had never seen a real school. Children in Attawapiskat were being educated in squalid conditions. Her fight for their dignity and rights launched the largest youth-driven civil rights movement in Canadian history. At 14 she was nominated for the International Children's Peace Prize. Shannen never lived to see the school that was built in her community, but her work carries on through the Shannen's Dream movement. She is a role model for youth activists across this country. A movie, two books and a statue are dedicated to her. She's been recognized as one of the 150 most influential women in Canadian history. I had the honour to know Shannen. In fact, I think of her every single day. She truly did come from the angels, and one day she returned.",
"speaker": "Mr. Charlie Angus (TimminsJames Bay, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Barsalou-Duval, you now have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, for months now, thousands of consumers who need money to pay their bills have been fighting against airlines and the government to have their rights respected: three class action suits, a unanimous motion by the National Assembly and over 30,000signatures on a petition calling for reimbursement for cancelled flights. It isn't a whim to enforce the law. Air Canada, which confiscated $2.6billion from its customers, received more than $800million from Ottawa without any conditions. Yet, the company has a year's worth of cash in reserve, $6billion in its coffers, and is in the process of raising more than $1.4billion in the financial markets. Air Canada has the means to reimburse citizens. It has the money it needs. We're tired of the Minister of Transport's crocodile tears. I consulted the bankruptcy directory this morning and didn't see any airlines listed. Now is the time to work for the people.",
"speaker": "Mr. Xavier Barsalou-Duval (Pierre-BoucherLes PatriotesVerchres, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Rayes now has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I want to pay tribute to a great man who represented the public here, in the House, for close to 15years: MichelGauthier. Michel, in life, we meet a lot of people, but some of them leave their mark on us forever. From the first time I spoke with you two years ago, I immediately understood that I was talking with a man with heart, a passionate man, a man who had Quebec imprinted on his heart. Because of your decision to join the Conservative Party of Canada, I got to know you personally, and I am most grateful. I will remember our discussions on the best ways to communicate our Conservative vision to Quebeckers. I will remember our heated discussions on Quebec-Canada relations. I will remember all the passion and energy you had in the lead-up to a speech to our supporters. Michel, Canadians, Quebeckers and I will remember you forever, the great man you were, the outstanding speaker, a formidable parliamentarian, with integrity, passion, commitment and love for Quebec. I offer my sincere condolences to Anne, and to your family and friends. Rest in peace.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Rayes (RichmondArthabaska, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Dubourg, you now have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the murder of GeorgeFloyd in Minneapolis resonated strongly within black communities in Canada and also in the heart of Montreal North. At a time of pandemic uncertainty when members of our community find themselves on the front lines as essential workers, an event like this rekindles feelings of fear, powerlessness and injustice. It has happened once again in the UnitedStates, but we are not immune to such behaviour here, in Canada. Dear constituents of Bourassa, I know our stories, I feel with you the pain as a parent and as a black person. I know this constant fear for our children. As elected officials, we have the duty to protect your rights and to ensure harmony. We must be vigilant and work to deconstruct prejudice and discrimination.",
"speaker": "Mr. Emmanuel Dubourg (Bourassa, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Before continuing, I'd like to give a reminder. To avoid sound problems, members participating in person shouldn't connect to the video conference. There seems to be some interference when you watch the video conference in the chamber and it's being transmitted, so let us make things run more smoothly. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. When the government first starting rolling out programs to help Canadians get through this pandemic, we raised points about some flaws and gaps in the program. The government assured Canadians that it would fix these programs as time went on. Well, Canadians are suffering through both the health and the economic consequences of the lockdown related to the coronavirus. Here we are the first day of June and the government still has yet to address the flaws in its programs; it is still letting so many Canadians down. I have a series of very straightforward and specific questions. On April 20 we raised with the Minister of Finance the issue of companies that had purchased another company not being able to demonstrate revenue loss, and therefore not being eligible for the wage subsidy, even though both companies separately would have been able to do just that. We have raised it several times now. I would like to ask the government when it will be fixing this unnecessarily rigid aspect of the wage subsidy program.",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I believe that a company with a fantastic Canadian history in the member's riding, Brandt Tractor, which pioneered the manufacturing of augers in Canada, is particularly affected by this. It is very important for us that the wage subsidy be available to as many Canadian companies as possible. It helps to keep employees connected to their businesses. Now, there are always some specific issues that can make it challenging for particular companies. I know that in the case of Brandt Tractor, for example, officials from the Ministry of Finance are directly in touch with the company to work on its issues.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, that's the same answer we got last week. It's the same answer we got two weeks before that, and it's the same answer we have been getting from day one. This is a very simple question. The government has indicated that it will change this program to allow for amalgamations. The solution is very simple. It is to also allow for those companies that have undergone acquisitions. This is a very specific question: Will the government fix this program and allow for companies that have acquired another company to still access the wage subsidy program?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let me just point out that the wage subsidy program is working extremely well for many, many Canadian companies and for many, many Canadians who are able to keep their jobs thanks to the program. More than two million Canadian workers are today benefiting from the wage subsidy program. By any measure that is a successful program. Now, for sure there are always going to be companies which, because of specifics in their history, need specific attention, and that",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Scheer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, reports indicate that up to half of the money allocated for the wage subsidy is going unspent, precisely because this government has left in unnecessarily rigid barriers for companies to be able to access it. It's a yes-or-no question, and the minister still can't answer it. Along the same lines, we asked on April 8 to allow businesses applying for the wage subsidy to demonstrate their 30% revenue loss using other metrics, such as loss of earnings, subscriptions and orders, in order to qualify. They still can't do that today, the first day of June. Why hasn't the government addressed this part of the program?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are very proud of the wage subsidy program and proud of the role it is playing to keep Canadian businesses going and, crucially, to keep Canadian workers connected to their jobs, but I have a question for the member opposite. Half of the questions we hear from the Conservatives in question period are concerns that we're spending too much money, that the deficit is too high. The other half of the time they complain about specific companies not getting access to our programs. We know which side we're on as a government. I'd like the Conservatives to let Canadians know what they believe in.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Scheer, you may have a short question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's quite clear what Conservatives believe in. We believe that when times were good, this government should have paid down debt instead of wasting money like $50 million to Mastercard and $12 million to Loblaws. The fact of the matter is that the government left Canadians in a vulnerable position as we were entering this pandemic precisely because of its fiscal irresponsibility, and now they have designed programs that have unnecessary barriers in them that prevent more and more Canadians from getting the help they need. Again, on April 26, Conservatives asked the Prime Minister to change the criteria for the Canada emergency business account so that small businesses that don't happen to have a business bank account can qualify. Why hasn't the Prime Minister made that change either?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm really grateful for that question because it allows me to set the record straight for Canadians. Canadians need to know that our country has the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7. We had that before the crisis began, and we still do. Canada has the fiscal firepower to support Canadians during this unprecedented crisis, and that is what we are going to continue to do.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mrs.DeBellefeuille.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the wage subsidy was put in place to support businesses and SMEs, to avoid closures and bankruptcy. Have I missed something? Is the Liberal Party on the verge of bankruptcy? Is it about to shut down? Does the Prime Minister consider that the Liberal Party is getting ready to close its doors?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (SalaberrySurot, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I thank the hon. member for the question. I want to point out that, as the hon. member said, the wage subsidy was really put in place to protect workers across Canada. We are proud of that. More than 2million Canadians have benefited from this",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mrs.DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the Liberal Party made $3million between January and March of this year. That's $3million in political donations. We're told that the emergency subsidy is being used to protect the jobs of Liberal Party employees. I'm not an accountant, but I can count. I'm wondering why the Liberal Party doesn't use its own money to pay its own employees instead of using the Canada emergency wage subsidy.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille"
},
{
"content": "I thank the hon. member for her question. I would like to point out again that the purpose of the Canada emergency wage subsidy is to support workers across Canada and Quebec, to help them keep their jobs and allow them to stay connected to their workplace. That is what we've done. More than 2million Canadians are benefiting from this important and truly essential program for our country. We are proud of it.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, does the Deputy Prime Minister think it is moral, fair and honest that employees who have lost their jobs are subsidizing an emergency wage subsidy for the Liberal Party of Canada out of their taxes?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille"
},
{
"content": "Our programs do not discriminate. They are there to help all workers. The hon. member talked about businesses and sectors that need more help. We agree. There is still a lot to do, but we want to work with all the",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mrs.DeBellefeuille.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, many struggling businesses in Quebec don't have access to the Canada emergency wage subsidy because they don't meet the eligibility criteria. Many tourism and municipal organizations, among others, don't have access to this wage subsidy. However, it's very clear that the Liberal Party qualifies according to the program criteria. Does the Deputy Prime Minister really think it's moral for her party to benefit from the emergency wage subsidy when it has the financial means to pay its own employees?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille"
},
{
"content": "I thank the hon. member for her question. I agree that there is still a lot to do. We are ready, and we are taking action. However, it's important to point out that our government has already done a lot to support Canadians. We've spent $152billion in direct support measures to Canadians. More than eightmillion people are benefiting from the CERB, and more than twomillion",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mrs.DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, what I understand is not really complicated to understand. I understand that the Liberal Party has money, that it has money to pay its employees, but that it doesn't want to cut the booty it has amassed for the next election. It's as if it were telling us that it's indirectly financing itself for the next election. Will the Deputy Prime Minister show some leadership and convince her own party to give up the emergency wage subsidy and even commit to paying back the money it has already received?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I want to point out that our programs do not discriminate. They are there to help all workers across the country, and I want to point out to what extent our programs do that. Eight million people are currently benefiting from the CERB, and two million are supported by the emergency wage subsidy. Our programs are also helping 380,000students and 639,000businesses",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Canadians and people across the world are reeling after seeing the images of George Floyd being brutally killed in a callous and casual manner. We're struggling with the impacts of anti-black racism. Anti-black racism hasn't just appeared or increased. It's now simply being captured by video. Canada is also no different. Anti-black racism also impacts Canada, and people here are feeling the frustration of black lives being neglected and ignored. Will the government commit to tracking race-based data in terms of COVID-19's impact on communities, particularly black Canadians, and track race-based data so that we can have a better response based on the evidence?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I would like to start by thanking the member opposite for his very important question and the very important work he has done throughout his career in drawing attention to racism in Canada and in fighting against it. Thank you. I agree strongly with the member opposite that we, as Canadians, must be the opposite of complacent. We have to acknowledge that anti-black racism is real in our country, that unconscious bias is real in our country and that systemic discrimination is real. It happens here. We have to commit today to working hard to fight it. I have more to say about disaggregated data and the coronavirus, and I hope I'll have a chance to do that in my next answer.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that openness on the part of the government. I want more and clear commitments. We also know that race-based or discriminatory police practices still exist across Canada. Will the government commit to working with provinces to ensure there are no such practices allowed to exist in Canada, particularly related to discriminatory police practices like carding? Will the federal government work and use its powers to end those discriminatory practices where federal regulation applies, and work with the provinces to ensure this happens across the country?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Thank you again for that very important question. First of all, on coronavirus, our government believes that disaggregated data, including when it comes to race, is extremely important. We're working with our provincial partners on that. On policing, racial profiling is unacceptable and unlawful. We will always work to uphold the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and to ensure the human rights of everyone in Canada are protected. At the federal level, RCMP members are guided by bias-free policing based on equality and non-discrimination.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "I want to change tracks, Mr. Chair, and talk about long-term care. How many times did the Prime Minister's Office and the Liberal government meet with lobbyists from for-profit long-term care homes from March 25 to April 22, during the worst impacts of COVID-19 in long-term care homes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, at this moment I can only speak for myself, and I have not met with any such lobbyists during that period or at other times. I share the member opposite's concerns about long-term care facilities in Canada. We have to do better, and we will.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "It was 12 times during the worst impacts of COVID-19. While seniors were dying in long-term care homes, the Prime Minister's Office and the Liberal government met with private, for-profit long-term care home lobbyists 12 times. Why did the Prime Minister's Office and the Liberal government choose to meet with these for-profit long-term care home lobbyists instead of meeting with those to solve the problem? Instead of making excuses about the federal government not playing a role, why didn't the Prime Minister and the Liberal government show leadership in calling for an end to profit in long-term care homes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Let me very clear about one thing, speaking on behalf of our government and on behalf of the Prime Minister. Our government sees as a matter of utmost concern and utmost urgency what has been happening in long-term care homes in our country, and the reports we have received from the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces about facilities in Ontario and Quebec need to be treated as historic documents that",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Now it's Mr.Rayes's turn. Mr.Rayes, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, why is it that employers from industry, businesses and community organizations that have been approved in the Canada summer jobs program still haven't received the money they're entitled to?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Rayes"
},
{
"content": "We are ensuring that the Canada summer jobs program is strengthened and enforced. We are making it more available to more students. We have lengthened the time period that the program",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Rayes has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Every day, the Prime Minister makes announcements in front of his residence. I'll repeat my question. Given the importance of the program for our youth who are looking to work, how is it that the organizations haven't yet received the money they need to hire students? As we know, there have been some problems with the CESB.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Rayes"
},
{
"content": "Our government is working hard to help employers adapt to the realities of COVID-19. We recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in communities across the country every year. That is why we have introduced flexibilities in the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth while providing more supports to employers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "The minister can say whatever he wants. Last year, there was no crisis and, as of April, all employers who had been admitted to the program had received the money. We are currently in a crisis. The government is trying to respond quickly to the needs. Right now, community organizations are not receiving the money to which they are entitled to hire students, to put them to work and to give them an employment opportunity. Why?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Rayes"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have managed to introduce flexibilities to take into consideration the difficult environment of the COVID-19 pandemic. As such, the flexibilities we've introduced into the Canada summer jobs program will help with more hiring of youth and more supports to employers, including non-profits and businesses that deliver essential services to Canadians. These changes will help small businesses hire and keep the workers that they need in the Canada summer jobs program.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "The young people and employers listening to us must be very surprised by what the minister is saying. He mentioned that the rules are now more flexible. However, it is taking a month and a half longer than last year. The money has not yet been given out. I have done my homework. I went to see what was happening in my riding and in about 10other ridings. Last year, in my riding, all the money had been deposited before April. Right now, there is a $240,000shortfall for about 60student jobs, and the minister has the nerve to tell us that the government has provided more flexibility. Why is the money not available if the government wants to act quickly, to help the economy recover and to help young people?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Rayes"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, indeed we are acting quickly. We are listening to the needs of the employers to make sure that this program works not only for them but also for youth, and that it gives them the experiences they need. It is adapted better for the COVID-19 pandemic to ensure that youth have the experience they need to gain life and work skills from the program. It's a great program, and we're making it work not just for businesses but also for non-profits.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Here is the reality. Last week, the owner of a hardware store in a village in my riding had to close his business because he was unable to hire students and had no one to work. This morning, an employer called me to tell me that his request to hire a student had been accepted, but that the delay meant that he could not proceed with the hiring. This means that one more young person will not have a job. That young person will therefore have to receive the CESB. There is the reality. When is the government going to release the money required for young people to be able to work?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Rayes"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I join the honourable member in recognizing that in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic there are some difficulties in terms of structuring the program and making sure that employers are able to access it. That is why we've introduced flexibilities to ensure that employers are able to access the program and that youth are also able to take advantage of the program to gain important work skills, especially in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic and especially in providing essential services that serve their fellow Canadians. It's a great program. We're doing everything that we can to work through some of those obstacles.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Ms. Shin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. By its own numbers, PSPC has had to cut the number of N95 masks the government has on order after cancelling contracts with companies that were not able to meet Canadian standards. We know that companies right here in Canada were willing to step up and fill in the gap. Will the minister commit to making domestic production of PPE, including N95 masks, a priority?",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our priority is to make sure that we get safe and effective equipment and supplies into the hands of front-line health care workers. We've been running multiple complementary supply chains at the same time. Building up domestic capacity is indeed a priority. We have a contract with Medicom in Montreal for the production of N95 masks and we will continue to work hard to ensure",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand (Minister of Public Services and Procurement)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Shin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Novo Textiles, a company in my riding, has retooled its factory to produce surgical masks in response to the shortage of PPE in Canada. Additionally, it will soon be producing quality made-in-Canada N95 masks using Canadian designs and Canadian-made machinery. My constituent has invested his own capital and is in active production supplying front-line workers right now, not just talking about it. However, the company's application to NGen was recently rejected. Canada needs masks now, masks that meet Canadian standards. Is the government serious about growing domestic production capacity, or is it all talk and no action?",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin"
},
{
"content": "In reality, we have received 101.3 million surgical masks that are being distributed out to provinces and territories. We have signed 24 contracts with domestic companies for the production of PPE right here at home. We are working very hard, Mr. Chair, to make sure Canadian front-line health care workers have exactly what they need to fight this pandemic.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, how many of these have received financial support from the government?",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm not quite sure what the member is referring to by how many of these, but as I said, we have signed 24 contracts with domestic",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "We'll have to go back to Ms. Shin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Where are these manufacturers located?",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have surgical masks being produced right here at home, as well as abroad, being brought into Canada",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Back to Ms. Shin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "What provinces are they in?",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I said, we have a contract with General Motors for the production of surgical masks",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Shin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Are there any in any provinces besides Ontario and Quebec?",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have contracts with multiple provinces throughout this country for the production of personal protective equipment. We are committed",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Back to Ms. Shin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "How many of these domestic manufacturers rely on supply chains in China?",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are dealing with a situation of very high global demand for the same product. As a result, we",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Shin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Will the Minister commit to providing my office with answers to these questions? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin"
},
{
"content": "I will commit, Mr. Chair, to continuing to work hard for Canadians to supply the personal protective equipment that they need. We have been giving updated numbers on our website",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Shin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I'm going to assume that answer is no. Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister introduced the Canada student service grant on April 22. Students were told details would arrive in a matter of weeks. It's been over a month, the I Want To Help platform has no details yet about eligibility, levels of funding, or how to apply. Post-secondary students are already one-quarter into their summer break. When can students expect to start applying for the CSSG so they can receive their grants? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Ms. Nelly Shin"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm pleased to share that students can anticipate more programs coming out as soon as possible. The I Want to Help website will be launched. Students can already apply for Canada summer jobs if they go to jobbank.gc.ca. By visiting Canada.ca/coronavirus, you'll see a suite of programs to ensure that students and young people are able to succeed. The coronavirus will not win, and our government will continue investing in our leaders of today and tomorrow.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bardish Chagger (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth)"
},
{
"content": "The next set of questions goes to Mr. Brassard.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Last week the President of the Treasury Board wrote a letter to his cabinet colleagues in which he said that, as the federal minister responsible for public access to government information, he has advised his cabinet colleagues of the need for transparency and accountability, even in times of crisis. My question is for the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities. Does she agree with the President of the Treasury Board's directive?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard (BarrieInnisfil, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the government remains committed to maintaining the openness and transparency of our government during this challenging time. The Government of Canada, along with provincial and territorial governments, have implemented exceptional workplace measures to curb the spread of COVID-19, and to protect the health and safety of federal employees. These measures have had an impact on institutions' abilities to respond to access to information and personal information requests, since most employees are now working from their homes.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Canadian Heritage)"
},
{
"content": "Frankly, I'm surprised that the answer is coming from that minister when the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities is in the House, but I will ask this question. Can the minister tell Canadians who Pierre Lavalle is?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard"
},
{
"content": "Treasury Board Secretariat has provided guidance to institutions to continue to make the best efforts to respond to Access to Information Act and Privacy Act requests and to provide published content",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Brassard.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Can the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities tell us who Pierre Lavalle is?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, of course. Pierre Lavalle was the former CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We are very proud that we now have Michael Sabia as the new chair of the Infrastructure Bank. He did a fabulous job in Montreal at",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna (Minister of Infrastructure and Communities)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go back to Mr. Brassard.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Can the minister tell me how long Mr. Lavalle was the CEO of the Infrastructure Bank?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can't give you the exact months. He was the CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank since the beginning, but let's be clear: Crown corporations work at arm's length from the government and must have",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "We'll return to Mr. Brassard.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Can I ask the minister how well she knows her file: 50%, 75% or 100%?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, that's quite a condescending little comment. I'd like to say that I know my file very well. What I know is that Canadians want infrastructure built, they want it built across the country, in the member opposite's riding and in ridings across the country. They want cleaner, healthier, more connected Some hon. members: Hear, hear!",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Brassard.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "How much of the $35 billion of infrastructure money that was allocated to that bank has been spent so far?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Infrastructure Bank is a new, more flexible financing model for infrastructure investments. It was set up; it is now in its new phase. We're very excited that it's going to be moving forwardand stay tuned.",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "In the context of Mr. Duclos' advice to his cabinet colleagues about openness and transparency, I'd like to ask the minister how much Mr. Lavalle was paid annually.",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I said, Crown corporations work at arm's length from the government. Our government follows the Privacy Act and the Access to Information Act when it comes to employee compensation, but remuneration ranges are publicly available. I'd note that this information for the bank's CEOs has been in the public domain",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Brassard.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm asking the minister how much Mr. Lavalle made. There was no answer to that. If it is in the public realm, she should know that. She said she knows her file very well. How much of a bonus was Mr. Lavalle paid recently when he left on April 2?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I am not involved in HR discussions when it comes to the Canada Infrastructure Bank and Mr. Lavalle. Crown corporations work at arm's length from the government. They need to have flexibility to meet their commercial mandates. As I say, the information about salary ranges is publicly available, but personal HR",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Brassard.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, could you stop my...? I'm hearing....",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard"
},
{
"content": "I would ask those of us virtually to mute. Mr. Brassard, there is about 15 seconds left. I'll cue you for a very short question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. According to a table, Mr. Lavalle could have received a bonus after year one of zero to 75% of his base salary, which was $510,000 to $600,000 per year; or in year two, which he was in, zero to 120% of his base salary. How much of a bonus did he receive?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Brassard"
},
{
"content": "The rate of any remuneration paid to the chief executive officer is based on the recommendations of the board. Our government follows the Privacy Act and the Access to Information Act when it comes to employee compensation. Let me say this: We're very excited about the new phase of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We have Michael Sabia there as the new board chair. We need to move forward on",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Mr. Chong.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Parliament's now been suspended for three months, since Friday, March 13. Will the government commit to reopening the House of Commons with its full powers, with social distancing, on Monday, September 21?",
"speaker": "Hon. Michael Chong (WellingtonHalton Hills, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as my colleague knows, we're meeting here four days a week, with questions on any topic for an hour and 35 minutes instead of 45 minutes a day. Democracy is as important for us as it is for the opposition.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this committee is neutered. It has no powers to introduce supply day motions, no powers to test government confidence, no powers to do the usual things that Parliament does. At times of crisis, the bedrock principles of rule of law and democracy are tested, and our democratic principles are buckling under the pressure from this government. They came to office promising greater transparency, but they broke almost every one of their promises. They broke their promise on electoral reform. They appointed an anti-Conservative organization, Unifor, to the media bailout fund. In the last parliament, they tried to give the PMO control over this legislature in Motion No. 6, and in the last election, they rigged the leaders' debates in their favour, and now they have suspended Parliament. Instead of this neutered committee that meets for only a few days with a few members, will the government commit to the full re-opening of this House with all its powers with social distancing on Monday, September 21?",
"speaker": "Hon. Michael Chong"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the government's objective is always to try to resume Parliament as it was before. Today, we have to live with this pandemic, but we will do everything we can to return to a normal situation as quickly as possible. That is clear and precise. The opposition asked for more time, especially to ask questions, and that is what it got. I would like my colleague to tell me one thing. Over the past few weeks, we have sent suggestions to opposition members about the operation of Parliament and they have never responded. I would like to know why.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the full parliament with its full powers sat through two world wars, previous pandemics and the October crisis in 1970. The governments of those days did not seek the suspension of the House. The government is not only failing to defend democracy here but also abroad. It can't utter the word Taiwan. It is failing to be strong and clear on Hong Kong and, while the situation today is not that of decades past, it is clear that Canada in the past stood for the rights of people in Hong Kong. Canada needs to take much stronger diplomatic action on Hong Kong. There are some 300,000 Canadians living there, and they are looking for the government's support. When will this government act? When will it threaten economic sanctions like the U.S. administration has? When will it provide asylum and a clear path to citizenship like the U.K. government has? When will it speak up against the Communist Party of China's United Front workers operating here in this country? When will it do like Australia did in calling for an international investigation of COVID-19, and organize an international coalition of like-minded democracies to defend Hong Kongers and the violation of the Sino-British treaty?",
"speaker": "Hon. Michael Chong"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'll remind the member to look at our statement of May 28. It's already done. Canada has spoken to the world; Canada has spoken up. We've made a first declaration with our colleagues in Australia and the U.K. to say that we have deep concerns. We all know that the one country, two systemsthe high degree of liberty and freedom enjoyed by the people in Hong Konghas made Hong Kong what it is today, a beacon when it comes to trade and financing. We know that and have expressed deep concern. Again, on May 28, with the United States, with the United Kingdom and with Australia, Canada was front and centre in saying that we have deep concerns that the imposition of a national security law by Beijing would undermine the very foundation, the very principles that have made Hong Kong so successful. We said that we and our international partners would look at the implications and the ramifications that this might have on our arrangement. I've called for a meeting of our Five Eyes partners tonight. I'll be chairing a meeting of our Five Eyes partners with the foreign ministers. We will be discussing it and will continue to raise our voices to stand up for the people of Hong Kong, and we will do it with our allies.",
"speaker": "Hon. Franois-Philippe Champagne (Minister of Foreign Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to Mr. Maguire.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, farmers have contacted my office about the massive delays with processing the advance payment program loans. Some put their applications in almost two months ago, and not a dollar has flowed. What's the point of having an advance payment program if there's no payment? Can the Minister of Agriculture tell us when these delays will end?",
"speaker": "Mr. Larry Maguire (BrandonSouris, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I can assure you that we are working with all the independent operators. This program is not administered by their officials, but by partners. I can assure you that, under the circumstances, they are doing their best to make the advance payments",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food)"
},
{
"content": "Farmers understand that some of the delays were caused by staff having to work remotely. However, did the minister approve a policy change on April 1 that made the eligibility for these loans more difficult during the middle of a pandemic, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Larry Maguire"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, a number of changes and improvements have been made to the program. To make things easier for our administrators, we have postponed some of the changes that could have been problematic.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Yes, so some of the changes made it more problematic for the producers. The minister must take responsibility for these delays. Farmers deserve an answer on why she changed the program. Who advised her that it would be a good idea to make it more difficult for the farmers to access the advance payment program in the middle of a pandemic? Or did she just go ahead and do this on her own?",
"speaker": "Mr. Larry Maguire"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we are constantly working with the administrators of the program. We are fully prepared to respond to their requests so that the advance payments program can best serve our producers across the country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Livestock producers are telling me that the premiums for the western livestock insurance program are too high. I told the Minister of Agriculture over two weeks ago that this was a problem, and yet she went out and said that farmers needed to make better use of existing support. When will the Minister of Agriculture listen to what the farmers are saying so they can actually use the existing programs?",
"speaker": "Mr. Larry Maguire"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I would like to remind everyone that we have put in place certain measures to improve access to AgriStability. We have also significantly improved the AgriRecovery program. Over the past few years, this program amounted to about $15million. It is now $100million for pork and beef producers alone, not counting the $77.5million for food processors.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Livestock producers in my riding and several across Canada are still waiting for the Minister of Agriculture's promise for an AgriRecovery program. When will the Minister of Agriculture stop rubbing salt in the farmers' wounds and provide the rest of the story she has been saying is on its way for over a month now in her AgriRecovery promise?",
"speaker": "Mr. Larry Maguire"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we have committed $50million to beef producers and $50million to pork producers through the AgriRecovery program. Here is how the program works: the federal government contributes up to60% and then the provinces implement it how they see fit.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "The funding announced by the Minister of Agriculture for the livestock industry was insufficient, and what was promised has not been delivered. This has caused hogs to be euthanized and over 100,000 feeder cattle to become overweight. The industry is in a crisis. How many livestock producers need to go bankrupt before they get the help they deserve?",
"speaker": "Mr. Larry Maguire"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, once again, we have significantly increased the amounts available through AgriRecovery. It is $50million for beef producers and $50million for pork producers. These programs are administered by the provinces. There is also $77.5million for processors.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Ms.Chabot, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we know that not everyone experiences economic recovery in the same way. In some sectors, such as tourism, fishery, hotels and restaurants, we do not know when activity will resume or whether it will resume slowly. This is a major concern for workers, because they do not know what will happen tomorrow. They do not know how much they will be able to earn this summer. Given that the CERB lasts 16weeks, they are all afraid that they will be left with nothing. Without a job, they have no income. Will the Minister of Finance announce now that he is extending the CERB?",
"speaker": "Hon. Dominic LeBlanc"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we moved very quickly at the early onset of the COVID-19 pandemic to support workersthose who have lost their jobs, who were laid off, or those whose jobs simply disappearedthrough the Canada emergency response benefit. It has provided immense support to the over eight million Canadian workers who have applied to the CERB. We will continue to support those workers throughout the COVID-19 pandemic period.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, my question was clear. We know why the CERB was put in place. It does not need to be explained to us again. For some workers, the CERB will end tomorrow morning. There will be no recovery in their sector. Examples include bars, sports training, arts and culture. They don't know when they will start up again. Is the government prepared to extend the Canada emergency response benefit now?",
"speaker": "Ms. Louise Chabot"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the workers that the honourable member identified, including those who were not eligible for the EI, were also covered by the Canada emergency response benefit. We moved quickly. We recognized the urgency of the situation, which is why we took action to support workers and their families through the Canada emergency response benefit. We have processed over eight million applications through that benefit. We will continue to support Canadian workers at this very difficult time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, are we going to continue to help workers in these difficult times? The answer is simple. Some don't know what they are going to do tomorrow morning. They do not know whether they will have an income to pay their bills. They have families, they have other needs. The CERB is going to end. This is the last period for some people. Can you do anything about it? Can I walk out of the House today and tell all those people that the CERB is going to be extended?",
"speaker": "Ms. Louise Chabot"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I would like to thank the honourable member for her question. We will clearly maintain our approach. We will look at how we can improve and change our programs, such as the wage subsidy. Of course, we are looking at how we can gradually reopen our economy by continuing to help people to be in a good position.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we are making progress. Yes, the decision is to extend the wage subsidy. I think we must do the same with the CERB, which is about to end. Another important commitment is the employment incentives. I don't know about you, but we see it in our ridings. People are scared because the economy is reopening in certain sectors. People are afraid to go back to work. People are afraid to go back to full-time jobs because they are afraid of losing all their emergency benefits. This affects workers and students alike. Are you prepared to take action on this issue? You have also promised to implement employment incentives.",
"speaker": "Ms. Louise Chabot"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we know that, with a responsible reopening of the economy, we have to look at our programs to make sure that we are keeping and protecting people. That continues to be our approach. We will look at changes and improvements. In that way, we will continue our responsible reopening of the economy.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "We are going to take a break so that our employees can change shifts without jeopardizing their health. While we have a few seconds, I would also like to remind members to address their questions to the chair, not directly to the ministers.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "We'll now carry on. We'll go to Mr. Easter in Malpeque.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC))"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for Brampton North. Today, June 1, under the auspices of the Food and Agriculture Organization, we celebrate World Milk Day. World Milk Day allows us to emphasize the importance of milk as a global food, its benefits for our health as well as our nutrition; and to celebrate the dairy sector, from the primary producers to the processors who ensure that our many high-quality dairy products get to the marketplace. Canadians are fortunate to have a thriving dairy sector that, under supply management, provides high-quality products at reasonable prices to consumers. Even under supply management though, dairy farmers have found themselves facing difficult challenges as a result of recent trade agreements and sudden market shocks as a result of the pandemic. Mr. Chair, to acknowledge World Milk Day, I'd love to be able to raise a glass of wholesome white or chocolate milk, but we can't do that. On the other hand, I must ask the Minister of Agriculture what the government is doing to support the dairy sector in these times so we can celebrate World Milk Day next year with more vim and vigour.",
"speaker": "Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank Mr. Easter, from the great riding of Malpeque in Prince Edward Island. Today it is particularly important to thank families working on the 11,000 dairy farms across the country, caring for 1.4 million cows to produce each year more than 9.3 billion litres of milk of the highest quality. The dairy sector in Canada is made up of more than 220,000 Canadians and foreign workers who dedicate their lives to feed us. While our society lives through unprecedented changes, the dairy sector demonstrates its resilience and proves more than ever the value of the supply management system. It is why we increased by $200 million the borrowing capacity of the Canadian Dairy Commission to improve its butter and cheese storage programs, giving the flexibility to manage the surplus of milk and support its mandate. Over the past few years, we have invested in dairy farms and given direct compensation to dairy farmers through trade agreements with Europe and Asia. We will do the same for the new NAFTA. Raise a glass for World Milk Day.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Ms. Sahota in Brampton North.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, last week a horrific video surfaced showing the killing of an unarmed black man at the hands of the Minneapolis police. George Floyd's death was the latest in a series of unwarranted deaths of black men and women at the hands of police. Since his death, solidarity protests have erupted across cities in the United States and all over the world asking for justice and a stop to systemic dehumanization of black people. I wish I could say we are, but sadly we are not immune to the reality of what is happening south of the border. The same protests taking place in New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Berlin, Paris and London are also taking place in our own backyard. In cities like Montreal and Toronto, thousands of people have already taken to the streets, not only to decry anti-black racism but also to ask for tangible solutions to effectively combat anti-black racism. We don't have to wait for pain, suffering and outrage to boil to the surface to act. There's nothing we know today that we didn't already know. As Canadians are demonstrating and calling on their society and governments to do better, can the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth tell us what this government is doing to address anti-black racism in Canada and to ensure we are evening the playing field for black Canadians?",
"speaker": "Ms. Ruby Sahota (Brampton North, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the MP for Brampton North is correct. Anti-black racism, racism and discrimination are present in Canada. With COVID-19, we have even seen a rise in anti-Asian racism. We all must speak out against racism and discrimination. Keeping silent is to condone these horrific acts. These acts don't have to be violent or result in the loss of life to be wrong. In fact, the actions of Amy Cooper shone a light on the stealth racism that exists. We must acknowledge inequities in our institutions and in people's lived experiences. If we as Canadians truly desire an inclusive Canada, every single one of us must step up, be an ally and do what we can to make workplaces, communities and public spaces safer. Our government has started this work. The open, transparent, merit-based appointment process is resulting in decision-making tables better reflecting Canadians. We recognize the UN International Decade for People of African Descent; the applications for capacity building in black Canadian communities are being assessed; the anti-racism secretariat is set up for Canadians but also for government departments to improve their systems, including advancement opportunities; and the recently announced immunity task force will provide disaggregated data to decision-makers because decisions need to be based on science and evidence. This work is by no means finished. Although our government is moving in the right decision, there is clearly a lot more work to do and we are committed to doing that work with communities as allies, as partners.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bardish Chagger"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to Mr. Duvall from Hamilton Mountain.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be splitting my time with the member for ElmwoodTranscona. Mr. Chair, workers' unions, business leaders and analysts across the country are raising a huge alarm over potential bankruptcies due to COVID-19. Thousands of Canadian workers are exposed and vulnerable. For years the government has promised to change the laws to protect workers from corporate bankruptcy, but has failed to deliver. Will this government fix the law before more Canadian workers lose their hard-earned pensions?",
"speaker": "Mr. Scott Duvall (Hamilton Mountain, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank the member for Hamilton Mountain for that question and for his advocacy on this file. I remind the member that since 2015 one of our first initiatives was the repealing of Bills C-525 and C-377, which were anti-union legislation. Since then, we've implemented a number of measures to protect workers. We've increased the wage earner protection program by extending it from four weeks to seven weeks. The member is well aware that in 2019",
"speaker": "Hon. Filomena Tassi (Minister of Labour)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go back to Mr. Duvall.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the changes the government made last year to bankruptcy insolvency laws were largely cosmetic and won't protect workers' and pensioners' livelihoods once bankruptcy hits. The government can protect severance, termination pay, pensions and benefits from corporate theft, but will they do it, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Scott Duvall"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we made a number of significant changes in budget 2019, including that the process for the CCAA be more open and transparent. We mandated that those who are coming to the process have to be honest and truthful. One thing we heard in the consultations was the ability for courts to set aside executive bonuses, and we implemented all those changes because we want to continue to protect pensioners.",
"speaker": "Hon. Filomena Tassi"
},
{
"content": "You have time for a short question, Mr. Duvall.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thanks, Mr. Chair. The minister isn't answering the question. Canadian workers are worried. This is about their livelihoods. Will the government fix the lawsyes or noto protect workers' and pensioners' rights?",
"speaker": "Mr. Scott Duvall"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have made amendments, and we are going to continue to make amendments. We want to absolutely ensure that pensions are protected. I look forward to working collaboratively with the member.",
"speaker": "Hon. Filomena Tassi"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Blaikie, ElmwoodTranscona.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Twice, following negotiations with the NDP, the government has committed to provide direct financial assistance to people living with disabilities. I'm wondering when those people can expect the government to announce the details of that assistance.",
"speaker": "Mr. Daniel Blaikie (ElmwoodTranscona, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are committed to advancing on the issues that have been identified by Canadians with disabilities. We are continuing that engagement, and we will have more to say on that very soon.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "I think that answer is entirely inadequate. I have a lot of sympathy for people across the country who are living with disabilities and are getting impatient with the fact that alongside its initial commitment to seniors, for instance, the government made a commitment to helping people living with disabilities with the same kind of direct financial assistance, and it hasn't come. Why has it taken so long for the government to get around to helping people who are in a crisis right now? I want to know the reason why this hasn't been announced yet.",
"speaker": "Mr. Daniel Blaikie"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have established the COVID-19 disability advisory group, comprising experts in disability inclusion. We're moving forward with the Canada emergency student benefit, which will provide $2,000 per month for eligible students with permanent disabilities. We are doubling the Canada student grants for students with disabilities in the coming academic year. We have done a lot, but we will continue to do more, and we will have more to share on our continuing efforts to support persons with disabilities.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead, Mr. Blaikie. You have time for one short question.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Their commitment was not around an advisory commitment. Their commitment was for direct financial assistance to people living with disabilities who are facing additional costs because of the pandemic. They have committed twice and they have done nothing. When are they going to get around to it? Why should people living with disabilities have to wait any longer than they already have?",
"speaker": "Mr. Daniel Blaikie"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, that is precisely why we are listening closely to the COVID-19 disability advisory group to get expert advice. We will have more to share. There is more work to come, and there will be results to be announced very soon.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. McLean, Calgary Centre.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. According to La Presse, federal cabinet ministers Steven Guilbeault , Catherine McKenna and Jonathan Wilkinson have been handed responsibility for crafting an economic recovery plan that aims to accelerate the green shift. True to form, this cabal around the Prime Minister has declared let's not let a good crisis go to waste. Can the Prime Minister confirm that his ministers have been working with environmental lobby groups for further financial support to engineer Canada's economy post COVID?",
"speaker": "Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable Minister of Middle Class Prosperity.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our most urgent priority is COVID-19 and the health and safety of Canadians. As we support Canadians through this time, we will also ensure our long-term economic, environmental and physical well-being. Our government remains committed to building a stronger and more resilient economy to ensure a sustainable, prosperous future for our kids and grandkids. Just like science is guiding us in our response to COVID-19, science will continue to guide us toward reduced pollution and in fighting climate change.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier (Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance)"
},
{
"content": "The task force for a resilient recovery was quoted as saying last week that they would have recommendations for government action available within eight weeks, notably eight weeks when Parliament is, by this government's design, absent. Can the Prime Minister disclose to this committee how many meetings his 61 environmental activist advisers have had with the task force or its members?",
"speaker": "Mr. Greg McLean"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, our most urgent priority with respect to COVID-19 is the health and safety of Canadians. While supporting Canadians during this period, we must also ensure our economic, environmental and physical well-being in the long term. Our government remains committed to building a stronger, more resilient economy to ensure a sustainable future for our grandchildren and children.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "The task force is a who's who of academics and bureaucrats, but surprisingly, includes no one from the productive part of the Canadian economy. So much for pan-Canadian input. The task force is reviewing work produced by Smart Prosperity, a government-funded institute whose membership overlaps with both the task force and the government's own Canadian Institute for Climate Choices. This is a bureaucratic environmental Ponzi scheme, with overlapping personnel and mandates. The only thing not overlapping is their funding. How many organizations does this government need to fund to recycle work produced by other redundant government-funded entities?",
"speaker": "Mr. Greg McLean"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, as we know, our priority right now is the health and safety of Canadians. Just as science guides us in our response to COVID-19, it will continue to guide us in reducing pollution and fighting climate change. Our priority is to support Canadians during this period and we must also ensure our environmental, economic and physical well-being in the long term.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "A notable member of the task force in question is one Gerald Butts. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but can the Prime Minister confirm if this is the same Gerald Butts who was forced to resign as his principal secretary for his role in attempting to force Canada's then justice minister into breaking the law?",
"speaker": "Mr. Greg McLean"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, since the beginning of this crisis, our priority has been to support Canadians and their health and safety. We will continue to do so, because it is important that we get through this crisis by supporting Canadians.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who was paid $360,000 U.S. by an American-funded organization after he started working with the Prime Minister?",
"speaker": "Mr. Greg McLean"
},
{
"content": "Once again, Mr.Chair, it is important to talk to Canadians right now to tell them that we are putting their health and safety first. We will continue to do so. We are going through a crisis right now and we will support Canadians.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who, in his role as the principal secretary in the office of Ontario's then premier, advanced policies that now saddle Ontarians with the highest energy costs in North America? Is this is the same Gerald Butts who weighed down Ontario with the world's highest subnational debt burden, all for the benefit of new green jobs that, notably, have never arrived?",
"speaker": "Mr. Greg McLean"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, as we know, for the past two and a half months, we have been supporting Canadians. We have put forward an economic program to help businesses, workers and Canadians across the country. We will continue to make the health and safety of Canadians a priority.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to the MP for West Nova, Mr. d'Entremont.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Yesterday, the Minister responsible for tourism, ACOA and official languages was happy to close our national Tourism Week by announcing investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada. Where's the big clap? Some hon. members: Hear, hear! Mr. Chris d'Entremont: There you go, give her a clap. More than $70 million will be invested to support this sector and promote Canadian destinations. Southern Ontario received $30 million, northern Ontario received $7 million and western Canada received $3.5 million. There's nothing for Atlantic Canada yet. Knowing that we just had an announcement from the Minister of Transport that there will be no cruise ships in Atlantic Canada or anywhere in Canada this year, resulting in hundreds of millions of dollars in losses, where is the program for Atlantic Canada?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris d'Entremont"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I commend my colleague for his important question. I know he's a very strong advocate for the tourism sector in Atlantic Canada, so I want to reassure him. Obviously, we want to support the tourism sector in Atlantic Canada. ACOA has a clear direction to do just that. If he has any good ideas, please let him come forward and let's have a conversation. Meanwhile, Atlantic Canada will also be supported through Destination Canada. Rather than doing marketing internationally, we will be supporting destination marketing organizations across the country, including in Atlantic Canada, to make sure that we launch this new movement to visit local.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly (Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages)"
},
{
"content": "That would be all great if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic and you can't even cross the Nova Scotia-New Brunswick border without having to self-isolate for two weeks. It's going to make travelling, through the Maritimes at least, very difficult. In Saint John, New Brunswick, 79 cruise ships and more than 270,000 passengers will not be giving back to that local community. At home in Nova Scotia, it's about 118 or 130 vessels. In terms of a minimum financial loss, $165 million will not be generated. There will be job losses and permanent closures of restaurants and boardwalk shops. Prince Edward Island, which was expected to have a record attendance year, will lose visits of 97 ships and 154,000 passengers, and $60 million to the province's economy will be lost. Mr. Chair, my question to the minister is this: Who is ACOA going to be working with, and what kinds of programs are going to be available to help them through this very difficult year?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris d'Entremont"
},
{
"content": "I agree with my colleague. The sector is really impacted by the pandemic and the economic crisis. It is a bit like the canary in the coal mine; it was the first impacted, and definitely it is still impacted. That's why we are in close contact with tourism leaders and operators across the country. Again, recently I had good conversations with the chambers of commerce all across Atlantic Canada, including Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador for the tourism sector. There is money for the tourism sector and tourism operators. They can have access to the wage subsidy. They wanted to have access to it until later in the summer, and it has been extended to the end of August. They have access to the rent relief program, the CEBA and ACOA funding. As mentioned many times in this chamber, Mr. Chair, if my colleague has clear examples to provide me, let's work together. Let's make sure the money flows to these people, because they need it.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly"
},
{
"content": "You have only about a minute left, Mr. d'Entremont.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, like the minister, last week, I spoke with Simon-Pierre Poulin, the director of Le Franco newspaper in Alberta, about the Sauvons Saint-Jean movement. He asked me why we could not continue to work on official languages and on modernizing the act even though Parliament is sitting in a different configuration. Unfortunately, I had to explain to him that many restrictions were associated with the current format of this fake Parliament. The pandemic is also threatening the protection of French in minority communities. The Liberal government made a commitment to modernize the Official Languages Act in the first six months of its mandate. How will it proceed?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris d'Entremont"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, it goes without saying that our two official languages are important and that, when it comes to language rights, we must always be on guard and protect what we have achieved. As for Campus Saint-Jean, I am very aware of the issue. I had the opportunity to speak with my two counterparts in Alberta late Friday afternoon to tell them about our concerns and the need to protect the institution from drastic cuts. That was the first point. The second point is the modernization of the Official Languages Act. I have the same concerns as my colleague. Clearly, we must continue the conversations and find the right solutions. Finally, we must be there to protect our language rights. If the member has good ideas, he can come to me to discuss them.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly"
},
{
"content": "The hon. member for ChicoutimiLe Fjord has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, some people for whom the 15weeks of sickness benefits were not enough before the COVID-19crisis now have to exhaust their regular employment insurance benefits before they are entitled to the CERB. Today, I would like to know whether they will be able to exhaust their weeks of eligibility for the CERB after October3.",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Martel (ChicoutimiLe Fjord, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we ensured that those who switched over to the Canada emergency response benefit would be covered by it, whether they were EI eligible or not. We are committed to supporting all of the workers who have been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "According to a survey conducted by the Universit du Qubec Trois-Rivires' research institute on small and medium size businesses, the SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean region would be the most affected by the economic effects of COVID-19. This is not surprising. In fact, in our region, the tourism industry generates more than $300million in economic activity, including $58million for the cruise industry alone. The $70million that you announced yesterday is a very modest start. What does the government intend to do for the tourism industry in the regions?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Martel"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, it goes without saying that the tourism industry is indeed very much affected. That is why we are responding to their concerns and worries. We have therefore extended the emergency wage subsidy until the end of August. We are also providing the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance, as well as the $40,000loans from the Canada emergency business account. We have also just announced $70million in support for Canada's tourism sector. I am having good talks with various stakeholders in Quebec, including Martin Soucy from the Alliance de l'industrie touristique du Qubec. In addition, we are going to do our part to support the tourism sector through Economic Development Canada.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the tourism industry in the SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean region is the sum of all its stakeholders. Many of these businesses are too small to receive the assistance announced by the federal government. Overly restrictive standards will prevent some tourist accommodation from welcoming guests this year, even though they will have to pay their bills every month. What does the government plan to do to help the regions most affected economically?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Martel"
},
{
"content": "I thank my colleague for his important question. What he is describing is the reason we are currently working on a game plan. We really want to be able to reach these small businesses, of which there are many in SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean, in Quebec and across the country. That is why the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have committed an additional $1billion to help those businesses that fall through the cracks. We need to respond now, and I will have more to say about it in the next few days.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I was very disappointed to see that we had lost asparagus crops due to a labour shortage. When I spoke with the blueberry growers in my area, they told me they were concerned that the same thing could happen to them. Some employers to whom we granted summer positions are not finding students to fill them. When will there be incentives to encourage people to work rather than disincentives?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Martel"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we believe that the flexibilities we have introduced to the Canada summer jobs program will enable more employers to use it, including more businesses, as well as help young people to acquire the necessary skills and benefits from this really important program.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Martel, you have about a minute left.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, on May19, the government said that it was studying several solutions to help business owners and entrepreneurs who operate their business using a personal bank account. When will the Canada emergency business account be available to them?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Martel"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, small businesses are the heart of all of our communities, and we've been working really hard to help them. Almost 650,000 small businesses have received the loan, which is really helping with those costs. We have more work to do to make sure that those other businesses also get access to this support.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Epp, the member for Chatham-KentLeamington.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wish to congratulate my colleague, Cathy McLeod. On Tuesday, May 26, she gained a new resident when Brinnley Lisette Huby was born to parents Adam and Carina Huby. Carina is my daughter, and that makes Brinnley my first grandchild and presently my favourite newest Canadian. All are healthy, and I thank God for Brinnley's healthy arrival. Some honourable members: Hear, hear! Mr. Dave Epp: Minister Jordan, the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation is allowed access to the seafood stabilization fund, while you deny its competitor, our Ontario fisheries that fish on the Great Lakes, the similar right to apply. Minister, why?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank my colleague for the very good question. The Ontario inland fishers and the people in Ontario are eligible for other programs that are offered through the regional development agencies. We are going to make sure that no industry is left behind when it comes to our fisheries. We're making sure that we're addressing the concerns of inland fisheries as well as coastal fisheries. Those programs will be available to anyone who needs to apply through the RDAs.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan (South ShoreSt. Margarets, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Minister, will you then direct these regional agencies to provide equitable funding equivalent to the seafood stabilization fund?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we're making sure that they have the same access to programs through the regional development agencies as there is through the seafood stabilization fund. We're making sure that everyone who is in need of support through the programs will be able to access it.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan"
},
{
"content": "According to Stats Canada, before my granddaughter turns one year old, her share of the federal debt will be over $39,000. What is Minister Morneau's fiscal plan for Canada so that the interest on this debt doesn't cripple Canada with higher taxes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we realize that it's always important to be responsible from a fiscal standpoint. We believe that the responsible approach today is to make investments to support Canadians and to support businesses. In that way we can have jobs and we can get through this pandemic and have a strong economy and be able to continue with our approach to managing our economy in a responsible",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Epp.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Minister, when can Parliament, or this semblance of it, see that plan for economic prosperity?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "I would like to remind honourable members to direct their questions through the Chair. The honourable minister may reply.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. We've been quite clear that we need to be transparent on a daily basis by giving Canadians an understanding of the investments that we're making through this pandemic. Once the situation is more stable economically, we will certainly be coming forward with a broader plan.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce said three months before the pandemic that this current government's level of spending and incurring of debt is untenable and that future generations, like my granddaughter, will have to pay for it. How much more debt is the minister planning to incur?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, coming into this pandemic in a strong fiscal position with the lowest amount of debt among the G7 countries is a function of our economy that's afforded us the opportunity to invest on behalf of Canadians. We will continue to take that approach. We believe that's the responsible thing to do through the course of this challenge.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "What is the budget for stopping illegal American guns from getting through our borders?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I thank the member for the question. I can tell you that we have invested considerable amounts of money and have earmarked ongoing monies to ensure that we address the issue of illegal guns passing across the border. We realize",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau (Minister of Transport)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Epp.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "What's the budget, then, to fight government-trained and licensed Canadians in the court challenge that's now been triggered?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "We will go to the honourable minister. We're not getting any audio.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. Could I have some more time, please?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "Yes. We're just going to hold time here momentarily, Mr. Epp.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "I apologize, Mr. Chair. Could I ask for the question to be repeated, please?",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Epp, what is your question again?",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "What is the budget for fighting the government-trained and licensed people who are now triggering a lawsuit against your order in council?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I don't have the answer to that question, but obviously the government will defend its position.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, COVID-19 has exacerbated the problem of this government's policy of spending the cupboards bare in good times instead of planning for a rainy dayand folks, we're in a storm. Unlike this government, municipalities cannot by law say put it on the tab for the next generation. The balanced budget requirements force them to choose between slashed services and drastic tax hikes. The Federation of Canadian Municipalities says they need $10 billion in targeted emergency operating funding, so do municipalities slash services, do they raise taxes, or will we be there for the municipalities?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dave Epp"
},
{
"content": "Our government absolutely understands the crucial role municipalities play as the engine of our economy at all times, and particularly today, as in many parts of the country we are looking to restart the economy. That is why the Prime Minister announced just this morning that we will be accelerating payments under the gas tax fund. Municipalities will receive the full amount of their 2020-21 payment on June 10. This will help them with some of their near-term liquidity issues.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We're now going to Mr. Manly, the member for NanaimoLadysmith. Mr. Manly, go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program is not helping enough small businesses. Many landlords do not want to take part in the program. Small businesses are requesting that they be able to apply without the landlord's participation. Many small businesses do not meet the 70% income-loss threshold. Many did their best to keep employees engaged and tried hard to not lose clients, as the government urged them to do. They are, in fact, being penalized for that effort. Thousands of business owners across the country will not be able to pay their rent today and risk closing permanently. Will the government push the provinces to include an eviction moratorium during the pandemic and make this commercial rent assistance program more flexible to ensure small businesses can survive?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the honourable member for the question, which recognizes the very serious challenge that many small businesses are facing during the course of this pandemic. We know that the programs we've put forward, programs like the emergency business account, are supporting businesses, but the emergency rent approach, on which we've worked together with provinces, can also help significantly. We are seeing a significant number of landlords and tenants coming forward with this and taking this up. I would encourage landlords to use this program, which is supporting them. Of course, the suggestion from the member that provinces take action in restricting evictions is one that I've been speaking about to ministers of finance from the provinces over the course of the last couple of months. This is an area of provincial jurisdiction. We are supportive and working hard to make sure this program works.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this week marks the 31st anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre, and we are currently seeing repression of the democracy movement in Hong Kong. We know that Communist China oppresses minority groups and does not respect human rights. In spite of this knowledge, the Harper Conservative government signed a lopsided and anti-democratic investment treaty with China in 2012, the Canada-China FIPA. This Conservative deal gave Chinese state-owned corporations extraordinary powers to challenge our democratic decisions through a secretive private tribunal system. In the years since the FIPA was signed, with no vote in Parliament, Chinese state-owned corporations have been purchasing Canadian assets and resources. These corporations can seek financial compensation from Canadian taxpayers for the loss of potential profit when our laws and policies get in the way of their profit-taking. Can the government tell us whether any of these Chinese corporations has threatened to use the anti-democratic investor-state provisions of the FIPA to seek financial compensation from Canadian taxpayers?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly"
},
{
"content": "As I'm sure the member will know, Canada is setting up with its allies around the world to protect the freedom and democracy that has been enjoyed by the people in Hong Kong. As he knows, we have issued a declaration with a number of allies we have called upon to make sure that measures remain in place to protect the freedom and liberty of the people of Hong Kong. We know that the one country, two systems treaty system has provided the framework under which the people of Hong Kong have been able to create an economy that is resilient and has made Hong Kong a place where people want to do business, commerce and trade. Mr. Chair, we have expressed our deep concern. I would refer the member to the joint statement we have issued with the United States, Australia and the United Kingdom. We have spoken with one voice and we have said we have deep concerns that the actions by Beijing, if they were to proceed with this national security law unilaterally, would undermine the bedrock of what has made Hong Kong, and that we will review the impact that",
"speaker": "Hon. Franois-Philippe Champagne"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Manly, you have about 45 seconds left. Go ahead; there's time for a short question.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "That was a trick question, because this anti-democratic agreement states that we wouldn't be able to have permission to disclose that information if there was, in fact, an investor-state dispute. Unlike NAFTA, which had a six-month period for renegotiation, the Harper Conservatives locked us into a 15-year agreement with the FIPA and this anti-democratic agreement. Will the government re-engage the special committee on Canada-China relations so we can do a thorough investigation of this Conservative sellout of Canadian democracy",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly"
},
{
"content": "We are out of time, Mr. Manly. We'll go to the minister for a response.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Canada will always pursue trade in the interest of Canadians, and we are in the process of reviewing our FIPA agreements so those agreements can provide the right framework for Canadians to trade, with the interests of Canadians always top of mind.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We're now going to Ms. Ashton in ChurchillKeewatinook Aski. Ms. Ashton, go ahead with your question.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'll be splitting my time with the member for Victoria. My question is to the Minister of Fisheries. This pandemic has hit Canadians hard. Import markets for our fish have dried up. This is devastating for inland fisheries. The season opened last week, and fishers are desperate for support. For indigenous fishers, fishing sustains their communities. It is their way of life. Will the government work with the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation and inland fishers to develop and facilitate the delivery of an emergency package that works for them and find ways to redirect product to domestic markets, including communities facing food insecurity now?",
"speaker": "Ms. Niki Ashton (ChurchillKeewatinook Aski, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we've recognized how hard the pandemic has hit our fishers and our fishing sector. We've made available a number of different measures. One of the things we're doing primarily is the harvesters' benefit, which allows all harvesters to take advantage of a benefit as well as a grant contribution to help them get through. We're also changing EI so they can now qualify for their EI benefits based on previous seasons, not this one, recognizing they're going to face challenges this year. The Freshwater Fish Marketing Board is a Crown corporation. We know it's been a very difficult time for them. We are continuing to look at ways we can address the challenges within the industry and we'll continue to work with them to make sure we are addressing those needs.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Ashton, we have about one minute left. There's time for a short question. Go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "My question is to the Minister of Transport. Canadians are being ripped off by airlines that are refusing to give passengers their money back. Airlines are profiting off Canadians during a very desperate time. This government has sat by while the Canadian Transportation Agency issued a statement to back up the airlines' appalling actions. What is this government doing to fix this? Why aren't they ensuring that public funds involve reimbursing passengers and an equity stake for Canadians?",
"speaker": "Ms. Niki Ashton"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I certainly recognize the very difficult situation and the frustration of Canadians who would have preferred a refund. At the same time, at this point if airlines were required to immediately reimburse all the cancelled tickets, it would have a devastating effect on the airlines. That is why the Canadian Transportation Agency, which is an independent body, recommended that vouchers be issued and that they have a reasonable time to be usedtwo years. It is also very important to bear in mind that as we begin to exit this pandemic, we must still have an airline industry in this country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "Now we're going to the honourable member for Victoria, Ms. Collins. Please go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, in Victoria housing and homelessness were at a crisis point long before the pandemic hit, but now people are particularly vulnerable to COVID-19. If you don't have a place to live, you don't have the luxury of following public health advice and staying home. As part of the recovery, will this government be increasing funding to build or buy the housing needed to address homelessness?",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, very early in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic, our government provided $157.5 million directly to 51 community entities to respond directly to the needs of homeless Canadians. We also provided $50 million in additional money to women's shelters. We are continuing with the national housing strategy. We are providing supports to communities and NGOs, as well as municipalities that are moving projects forward.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the federal government allocated just $1.3 million in Reaching Home funds to my region. While the province has stepped up, it cost them $18.5 million to purchase just one hotel in Victoria. The federal funding is clearly inadequate. Is the government going to show some leadership and at least match the provincial funds?",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we moved very quickly. The $157.5 million, I must note, was additional money on top of the base funding that we provide every year to address the needs of Canada's most vulnerable. In addition to that, our projects under the national housing strategy are continuing. We are providing leadership. We are trusting the community entities to make the decisions on where the funding goes and to respond in a way that meets the",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Collins, you have about 40 seconds left, which is time for a short question. Go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "The minister mentioned the national housing strategy. This government's national housing strategy reduces the level of targeted funding for lower-income households, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer. My question is simple: Coming out of the pandemic in the coming months, is the government going to increase housing funding to address the immediate need, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I disagree with the honourable member. Our money is targeted to communities. They have community advisory boards that decide how to spend the money. If the NDP does not trust local communities to make decisions, they should say so.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "I now invite the hon. member for Joliette, Mr.Ste-Marie, to take the floor. Go ahead, Mr.Ste-Marie.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. Regardless of the COVID-19 pandemic, the last time I checked, we still had a democratic system and the government had to remain accountable. The government needs to present a picture of the economic situation and a picture of its overall emergency measures. Does the government intend to extend the measures over the summer? If so, how will it do so? The government must also present its working scenarios for the economic recovery. The government needs to be transparent. When will the government provide its economic update?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for his questions. I agree, it is very important to be transparent and to provide the necessary information to Canadians. Every day, we announce measures, of course, but also the cost of the measures and the amount of the investments. It is very important. The challenge at the moment is the economic situation, which is very fluid. When the situation is more stable, we will have the opportunity to give an economic update.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "In my opinion, Mr.Chair, it will really be too late to do the economic update when things are more stable. We have been asking for an economic update for the past month. Even the Parliamentary Budget Officer has been urging the government to table an economic update in a timely manner. With only three weeks left in the House before the summer, the clock is ticking. The Quebec government will table its economic update later this month. Will the federal government follow suit?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, let me confirm that we will continue to be transparent about the investments; it is very important. Of course, each day we work to make sure we have a solid grasp of the economic situation. As I said, when the situation is a little more stable, we will have the opportunity to explain our situation with an economic update.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Once again, Mr.Chair, when the situation is more stable, it will be too late to do an economic update; instead we will have to table a budget with the recovery in mind. Speaking of the recovery, the Parliamentary Budget Officer is surprised that the government is calling on the private sector for ideas for its recovery plan. Mr.Giroux points out that this government has thousands of public servants with very good ideas, and he adds that the government can also ask for the opposition parties' views. That would be a very good idea. Why is the government contracting out the development of its recovery plan to the private sector?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I would like to tell the hon. member that it is important to listen to what we are trying to do, and to listen to people's ideas and opinions, not only in Parliament, but also from our society. So we keep listening. Of course, with our approach, we will address the economic recovery in a way that will ensure we can maintain our very strong position.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we are still surprised that the government has contracted out its recovery plan to the private sector. The sooner the government tables its recovery plan, the better. Businesses and individuals would start gaining confidence in the economy again. It would help them to loosen the purse strings and be assured that there will be economic life after the pandemic. Again, that is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer says. Can the government tell us when it will table its recovery plan?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we feel it is very important to consider what we need to do in each phase of our recovery. At this time, it is necessary to consider the public health situation and the gradual reopening of our economy. That is why we feel our approach aims for a safe recovery. Obviously, by gathering more information in Phase3, we will be able to consider more than one approach to recovery.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Ste-Marie, you have about 30seconds left.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I understand that the exact date for tabling the recovery plan may be difficult to determine at this time. Can the minister tell us whether he currently intends to table the recovery plan in a month ending in ber? If not, will it be before or after that?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie"
},
{
"content": "We continue to work with the provinces on an approach to determine the timing of the recovery, and we are also listening to our colleagues in Parliament, of course.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "We're now going to the honourable member for Abbotsford, Mr. Fast.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Prime Minister continues to pander to the Communist regime in China. We were shocked to hear that his own Minister of Digital Government used WeChat, a Chinese social media site, to raise funds to sue a Global News reporterfor what? It was for daring to expose China's attempt to hoard PPE during the COVID crisis. Is it the practice of the government to support lawsuits against Canadian reporters who challenge the hostile actions of the regime in China, and will the Prime Minister now condemn the actions of the digital government minister?",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we value the important work of media across the country and the world. Attacking the integrity of hard-working journalists is not acceptable. As many members on all sides of the House know, WeChat is a social media platform used to engage and share information with the Chinese-Canadian community. Participation in this group, much like Facebook, is guided by posted guidelines and a disclaimer. In this case, the individual who violated the guidelines of the group is no longer a part of that group.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Canadians have no reason to trust the Prime Minister on anything to do with China, especially when it comes to trade policy. Two and a half years ago, the Prime Minister travelled to China to commence free trade negotiations, and the talks ended up in complete failure and embarrassment. Still the Prime Minister continues to cozy up to the Chinese regime, refusing to ban Huawei from our 5G network or to speak out convincingly against China's oppression in Hong Kong. Meanwhile, the two Michaels are continuing to languish in Chinese jails. This is the kind of partner the Prime Minister wants to negotiate a trade agreement with. Can the minister tell us whether at any time during the last six months the Prime Minister or anyone else in his government has had discussions with China about a free trade agreement? A simple yes or no will do.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as you know, Canada has a complex and multi-dimensional relationship with China. Canada will continue to engage with China with eyes wide open. Any work that we do on trade and on all matters will always be in the interests of Canadians first.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "I think Canadians will see that the minister didn't even answer a simple yes-or-no question, so I'll ask her a simpler yes-or-no question. Is she or anyone else in her government presently discussing or negotiating a free trade agreement with China, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we will always do our work, including any discussions on trade and indeed all of our work, with the interests of Canadians and Canadian businesses as our absolute top priority.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Again, there was no answer, so I'll try again. Will the minister now assure Canadians that she and the Prime Minister's government will not negotiate a free trade agreement with China, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast"
},
{
"content": "Any work that we do will always be guided by the best interests of Canadians and Canadian businesses.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I am just flabbergasted. This minister has been asked three times if the government is negotiating a trade agreement. She refuses to answer, so I'll try again. Will the minister tell us why she thinks negotiating a trade agreement with a hostile country like China is in Canada's best interests?",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I thank the honourable member for the question. The answer is no.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I just want to make sure. Free trade is a good thing when it takes place between like-minded countries that embrace free market principles and apply the rule of law. China is not such a country. In fact, China repeatedly flouts international trade rules, illegally dumps underpriced goods into Canada, and prevents Canadian canola, beef and pork from entering China. Is has also jailed Canadians without due process. Will the minister now assure us that our government will not negotiate any free trade agreements with China, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast"
},
{
"content": "We are not in discussions with China on a free trade agreement, and as my colleagues, including the Prime Minister and the foreign minister, have said many times in this House and outside of this House, our priority continues to be the immediate release of Canadians detained in China. We will always work in the interests of Canadians and Canadian businesses. That is what we will always do.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "This will conclude today's sitting of the special committee on the COVID-19 pandemic. Therefore this committee stands adjourned until tomorrow at noon.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
}
] |
covid_1 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"12"
]
],
"topic": "Presenting petitions"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"13",
"44"
]
],
"topic": "Statements by members"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"45",
"337"
]
],
"topic": "Questions to Ministers"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting started off with petitions from members that included appeals to the Government to take action on issues such as raising the minimum wage for essential workers. The members then moved on to giving statements that included recognition for people who had recently lost their lives, as well as praise and criticism for efforts by the Government and private organizations. Finally, the members quizzed ministers on various issues facing various groups such as farmers and women.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Condolences were shared to the families of the people who were involved in a fatal accident in Placentia bay. Sadly, Mr. Dufuor, Mr. Rogers, and Mrs. Louise Feltham also passed away the week before. Condolences were also given to the essential workers who lost their lives in service of others.",
"query": "Which condolences were shared?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"17",
"27"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Liberals were accused of promoting the harmful status quo of maintaining the ban on blood donations from gay men and trans women. Additionally, they, together with the conservatives, were also accused of using the emergency wage subsidy to fund their own partisan activities at the expense of vulnerable citizens.",
"query": "What were the accusations levied against the Liberals?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"36",
"40"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Essential workers were thanked for their efforts in saving lives during the ongoing pandemic. It was noted that the week was Paramedic Services Week in appreciation of their work.",
"query": "Which groups were thanked for their efforts?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"29",
"41"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Farmers were faced by inaccessibility of financial aid due to the complicated online calculator. Even after consulting with accountants, it still wasn't clear on how to navigate the assistance program.",
"query": "What issues did Canadian farmers face?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"47",
"57"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Funds were requested to help fight human trafficking that affected vulnerable women and girls. There was concern for the rise in women abuse going up by as much as 400% and funds to support organizations to fight this not being released. Additionally, the members were made aware of the stripping of titles from First Nation women.",
"query": "What was said on women issues?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"95",
"113"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Ms. Leah Gazan asked for help to tackle homelessness and provide rental assistance. The Minister of Families, Children and Social Development pointed to the ministries efforts to help with essential supplies and expenses.",
"query": "What did the committee say on housing?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"218",
"225"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Honourable members, I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 15thmeeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybrid meeting. Members will be participating via video conference or in person. I will remind you that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connecting by video conference. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up here on either side of the Speaker's chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using the earpieces on their desks. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining by video conference, I'd like to remind you to leave your microphones on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you need to be on the English channel for interpretation, and if you want to speak French, you should do so on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, please change to the channel for the language that you happen to be using at the time. Should members participating by video conference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We will now proceed to ministerial announcements. I invite the Right Hon. Prime Minister to take the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC))"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. I rise today to address what so many people of colour live with every day. Over the past few days, we've seen horrific reports of police violence against black men and women south of the border, but these are not isolated incidents or elsewhere problems. Prejudice, discrimination and violence are a lived reality for far too many people. They are a result of systems that far too often condone, normalize, perpetrate and perpetuate inequality and injustice against people of colour. As a country, we are not concerned bystanders simply watching what is happening next door. We are part of it. The calls for justice, for equality and for peace are found echoed in our communities, because anti-black racism is happening here, everywhere in Canada, every single day. This is something that our own staff, cabinet ministers and colleagues face even in these halls. Over the past few days, I've heard many of these personal stories directly from them. I'm not just talking about acts of violence. I'm also talking about microaggressions, which many of us may not even see. That is the daily reality of far too many racialized Canadians, and it needs to stop. When it comes to being an ally, I have made serious mistakes in the past, mistakes that I deeply regret and continue to learn from. I want to thank my colleagues, community leaders and fellow Canadians for opening my eyes to what is really going on in our communities and for helping me better understand both privilege and power. I'm not perfect, but not being perfect is not a free pass to not do the right thing. It's not an excuse to not step up, stand up for each other, be an ally. I know that for so many people listening right now, the last thing you want to hear is another speech on racism from a white politician. I'm not here today to describe a reality I do not know or to speak to a pain I have not felt. I'm here because I want you to know that our government is listening. We hear your calls for justice, equality and accountability. We acknowledge your frustration, your anger, your heartbreak. We see you. Since coming to office, our government has taken many concrete steps to fight anti-black racism, systemic discrimination and injustice across the country. We are working directly with the communities and their leaders to close the gaps that persist in Canada. For example, we have provided $9million to support programs for black Canadian youth. We have made significant investments to enable the Public Health Agency of Canada to provide more mental health services to people who have experienced racism or intergenerational trauma. We are helping community organizations to obtain funding to purchase equipment or lease space. We have also created the anti-racism secretariat, which has an envelope of $4.6million, to address systemic barriers, such as employment, justice and social participation, that perpetuate injustice. We have made progress, but we know the work is far from being done. Over the past five years, our government has worked with communities to recognize and address injustices. We've taken action to support community organizations, invest in better data and fight racism. While we've made some progress, there is still so much more to do, because here are the facts in Canada: Anti-black racism is real. Unconscious bias is real. Systemic discrimination is real. For millions of Canadians, it is their daily, lived reality. The pain and damage it causes are real too. Mr. Chair, every Canadian who has felt the weight of oppression, every student who has the courage to demand a better future, every person who marches and posts and reads and fights, from Vancouver to Montreal to Halifax, expects more than the status quo. They expect more and deserve better. The Government of Canada has a lot of work to do, but we're ready. We're ready to work with our opposition colleagues, community leaders and Canadians to make our country a more just and fair place. Racism never has a place in this country, and we will do everything we can to eradicate it from coast to coast to coast. Thank you, Mr.Chair.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Papineau, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable Leader of the Opposition.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Over the past week, we have all been affected by the heartbreaking killing of George Floyd in the United States. The video is painful to watch. No one should ever have to plead for help while a crime is being committed, ignored by other members of law enforcement. The tragedy triggered marches, occupations, protests and, unfortunately, riots. However, I hope it has mostly sparked conversations. Racism is real, painful and unacceptable. No one should ever feel unsafe because of the colour of their skin, especially around police officers who have a duty and a responsibility to uphold the law for all. Here in Canada, we are fortunate to live in a country that is welcoming, tolerant and inclusive. Canada was a beacon of freedom to so many escaping slavery during the U.S. Civil War. Our nation has benefited immensely from great Canadians who overcame prejudices and discrimination to serve their communities and make Canada a better country: Lincoln Alexander, elected as a Conservative in 1968, was the first black member of Parliament and went on to become the first black cabinet minister; John Ware was born into slavery in South Carolina but, following the American Civil War, was a leading figure in bringing the first cattle to Alberta and spearheading the ranching industry that would become the backbone of the province; Josiah Henson escaped slavery to become a thriving businessman in Ontario; and of course, Viola Desmond challenged segregation in Nova Scotia. Black Canadians throughout history have not just built this nation with their contributions; they have also represented Canada with excellence and pride on the world stage, like Harry Jerome, who represented Canada in three Olympic Games and won a bronze medal in 1964. He would go on to become a teacher in British Columbia, once again serving with excellence to try to make a better world for the next generation. Throughout our history, black Canadians have put their lives on the line for their fellow Canadians, bravely serving around the world in our armed forces. While there are many things we can point to in our history with pride, that is not to say that we have a perfect record, nor that we are immune to the threat of racism or that anti-black racism is just an American problem. Canada has had its own dark episodes of racism that cannot be ignoredsadly, not just in our past. Every day, there are people who experience discrimination or racism in some form. Throughout this pandemic, we have seen a troubling spike in anti-Asian racism. No one should be attacked in their community or targeted on the bus because of the colour of their skin. Nor should places of worship be broken into and desecrated, like the synagogue in Montreal. The Conservatives condemn all acts of anti-semitism, racism and discrimination. In a peaceful and free country like Canada, there is absolutely no room for intolerance, racism or extremism of any kind. But the violence and destruction we have seen in response are not the answer. Millions of people are protesting peacefully across the United States and in Canada, and we must always protect the rights of people who are protesting peacefully and within the law for a just cause and separate them from those who exploit tragedies to commit acts of violence. Mr. Floyd's brother, Terrence, said that violence will not bring his brother back. Instead, he has called for peace and justice and urged the crowds to educate themselves and to vote. Out of such tragedy, Mr. Chair, that is a powerful message about how each one of us can use our democratic rights to effect change. In a peaceful and free country like Canada, there is absolutely no room for intolerance, racism and extremism of any kind. We are not born believing we are better than one another. We are all created in the image and likeness of God, and because of that, we are all equal. An infinite value exists in each one of us. Canada is an incredibly diverse country. Canada is a nation of immigrants that stands on the traditional territories of first nations, Inuit and Mtis people. Waves of newcomers have come to Canada for a better life because our country is built on a rock-solid foundation of enduring values, democratic institutions, the rule of law and fundamental and universal human rights. Everyone comes here because Canada is built on solid values, democratic institutions, and respect for the rule of law, as well as for fundamental, universal human rights. We must absolutely protect these values, because they are what sets us apart. They allow Canada to offer what so many other countries simply cannot. There are those who say that diversity is our strength, and that is true, but it doesn't quite capture the full picture. Diversity is the result of our strength, and our strength is and always has been our freedom. It is the freedom for people to preserve and pass on their cultural traditions and the opportunity to live in peace with those around them; the freedom to live your life with equality under the law, regardless of your race or ethnic background; and the economic freedom that so many governments around the world deny their people. It is that economic freedom that ensures that hard work pays off. It gives people the ability to work towards their dreams and choose their own path in life. Together, generations of Canadians who trace their roots back to countries around the world have built Canada to truly the greatest country on earth, the true north strong and free. To ensure that our people remain free, we must continue to fight attacks on our freedoms, including racism and all forms of brutality and injustice in Canada and around the world. Minority rights must be protected. Freedom of religion must be protected. Freedom of expression and the right to peaceful protest must be protected. As John Diefenbaker said, I am a Canadian...free to speak without fear, free to worship...in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition)"
},
{
"content": "The hon. member for BeloeilChambly.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. George Floyd is not a victim of racism; he is another victim of racism. At a time of crisis when outrage is overwhelming the caution and fear of disease among thousands of people who, despite everything, take to the streets to express that outrage, we here in politics will have to be careful, once again, about the words we use. Indeed we are particularly inclined to give other people's words a meaning other than the one they would have liked to give them. Today, our dutyand I would say almost our only dutyis to express our solidarity, our sadness, our indignation and our anger, but above alland in saying this, I'm thinking of all my friends and acquaintances in the wonderful black community in Quebec and the UnitedStatesour friendship. We must try to be heard by all humans. Every time we talk about this, a small part of me surfaces, that of the non-practising but unrepentant anthropologist who wants to remind us that races do not exist. It is the frequency of manifestations of certain genetic traits favoured by geography and history, which in turn shape cultures. Racism expresses itself first and foremost through aggression against what is presumed to be the culture of others, difference. Each time difference instills fear, it is, of course, one time too many. We must learn to live equality in diversity, in itself an extraordinary thing. Governments in the U.S. have all been racist. Their racism has necessarily been expressed, at some point in their history, in their institutions. It has left its mark. It is the only thing that we have the right to call systemic racism or systemic discrimination. I am concerned when anyone suggests that we are all and collectively inclined to engage in systemic discrimination or when anyone claims to be a bulwark of virtue between us and the victims. I believe that the Canadian government is not racist, that the Quebec government is not racist, and that the governments of our municipalities are not racist either. I believe, however, that there may be traces of horrible things left in our institutions that colour our relationships with people of different origins or with people who were here long before us. So systemic racism probably exists. It should not denounce individuals, but it should encourage us to reread our rules to get rid of what might still be discriminatory in them. This day belongs to GeorgeFloyd. This day belongs to the black people of the UnitedStates. This day belongs to the black people of Quebec and Canada. We don't play politics at the funeral doors: we gather our thoughts, and let indignation and sadness be expressed. We leave the streets to those who need to speak with one voice, in peace. All that is peaceful is legitimate. Nothing that is violent is legitimate. The Prime Minister expressed the desire to implement concrete measures to fight racism. The first must be to show our solidarity and friendship. I'm proposing a very concrete measure, which is to give priority and expedited processing to the files of refugee claimantsespecially Haitian, especially black, but also of other originswho have expressed their desire to be part of the Quebec nation by putting themselves on the front line. He has the power and the duty to do so, and if he needs Parliament, let's do it tomorrow or right now. That way, words will become actions, and the next step will be all the more credible. In the meantime, our duty is to stand up for those who are afraid and against those who frighten them. Thank you, Mr.Chair.",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member for Burnaby South.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. Many, many Canadians were shocked to see the violence surrounding the murder of GeorgeFloyd. GeorgeFloyd's murder is a grim reminder that anti-black racism still exists and that it hits hard. Anti-black racism isn't only in the UnitedStates; it's here in Canada, too. Systemic racism against blacks, indigenous people and many other visible minorities is alive and well: racial profiling, economic inequality, social inequality, discriminatory hiring, trivialization of violence, excess incarceration, and so on. Things aren't moving forward because one government after another prefers pretty words to concrete action. When the time comes to act, they don't have the courage, they don't have the will to act. People are feeling a lot of grief and frustration, but we can turn that into action and justice. We must not just call for peace. I believe that we have to call for justice. Justice is the only way to create a better world. When people around the world saw the killing of George Floyd, it left all of us shaken to our core. It was chilling, the casual violence of anti-black racism, the callous taking of another human being's life. It hurt to the core. There was pain. There was sadness. There is anger, and rightly so. There is frustration. This isn't just an American problem. This is just as much a Canadian problem as well, and something that continues to exist across our country. Anti-black racism and anti-indigenous racism are real. People have suffered violence. Indigenous people and black people have suffered violence and have been killed at the hands of police here in Canada. I think about Regis Korchinski-Paquet in Toronto and the calls for justice for Regis. A black trans woman was killed in suspicious circumstances in an interaction with the police. I think about Stewart Kevin Andrews, a young indigenous man killed in an interaction with the police in Winnipeg. The anger and frustration are about this: How many more people need to die before there's action? How many more speeches will be made? How many more protests need to happen before something is done? How many more times will people plead to breathe? How many more times will they plead to live? What we're talking about is basic human dignity. How many more voices have to ask, demand, plead, beg for basic human dignity? People are angry. They're feeling like enough is enough. Why do they need to keep on asking? Why do black people, why do indigenous people need to keep on asking to be treated like humans? Why? You know, people are done with pretty speeches, particularly pretty speeches from people in power who could do something about it right now if they wanted to. I'm standing in a hall of power, the chamber of the Commons, with a Prime Minister who has the power not just to say pretty words but to actually do something about this. The Prime Minister of this country has the power to go beyond pretty words and pretty speeches and do something. I don't have all the answers. I don't think any one person does. We're going to have to come up with those solutions together, but there are certainly some things we do know. Martin Luther King said, True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice. That's what we need. We need justice. Killer Mike extolled that people should plan, plot, strategize, organize and then mobilize. Cardi B put it this way: Another way for the people to take powerI don't want to make everything political but it is what it isis by voting. So what do we vote for? We vote for a government to take action. I call on the Prime Minister, in this hall of power: If the Prime Minister believes that black lives matter, will the Prime Minister commit to ending racial profiling in our country? If the Prime Minister believes that black lives matter, will the Prime Minister commit to ending the over-policing of black bodies? If the Prime Minister believes, truly believes, that black lives matter, will the Prime Minister commit to ending the over-incarceration of black people in this country? If the Prime Minister truly believes that black lives matter, will he commit to ensuring that there are race-based data to make better decisions? Will he commit to ensuring that there's access to education and to health resources? The Prime Minister has the power to do all these things right now. The Prime Minister simply needs to get it done. If the Prime Minister truly believes that indigenous lives matter, then similarly the Prime Minister must commit today to ending the racial profiling of indigenous people, the over-policing of indigenous people and the over-incarceration of indigenous people. If the Prime Minister truly believes that indigenous lives matter, the Prime Minister could stop taking indigenous kids to court; the Prime Minister could stop delaying the action on the calls for justice for the murdered and missing indigenous women and girls. If the Prime Minister believes that indigenous lives matter, he could ensure that there's clean drinking water and access to justice and to education and housing right now. People are angry because they are frustrated and done with pretty words. People are angry because they're done with pretty speeches from people in power who could do something about it right now. People don't want peace. They don't want an absence of tension. People want the presence of justice. People want justice. People deserve justice. People need justice, and justice is what people will get. Nothing less will do. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member for SaanichGulf Islands",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is indeed a difficult day. It's a difficult week. These have been difficult weeks. I stand here and want to begin by acknowledging that we are all on the traditional territory of the Algonquin peoples, and again to say meegwetch, on a day like this when we're focusing on something so painful that really is beyond partisanship and that should bind us together as people who say we cannot tolerate racism, not in this country. But we know it's here. As the Prime Minister just said, Racism never has a place in this country. But we know it's here and we know it's living with us. We are facing, in this pandemic, two dangerous, invisible viruses. One is COVID-19 and the other one we've tolerated far too long, which is race-based hatred, hate speech and anti-black racism. Yes, black lives matter. I want to do nothing but just chant it in this place until we all stand together and say, Black lives matter. What we are seeing in the murder of George Floyd is exactly as my colleague from the Bloc Qubcois said: George Floyd is not a victim of racism; he is another victim of racism. There is victim upon victim upon victim. These victims have names. We must not forget their names. The first time a black man was killed when his last words were I can't breathe was in 2014, with Eric Garner. His mother did interviews this week. Imagine what she's going through, because George Floyd died on video also saying, I can't breathe, and the people who were stopping him from breathing, his killers, are the police. In the case of Eric Garner, the policemen were fired but never charged. In George Floyd's murder, at least one killer has been charged, but it doesn't do anything to ease the pain, nor, as my friend from the NDP said, does it quench the thirst for justice, because that's what people are crying out for. They're crying out for justice. The names just keep cascading. I had to look it up because I thought, when was it that the poor young man who was jogging was murdered by the father and son in the pickup truck? He was murdered by a retired policeman and his son in their pickup truck, in February. Breonna Taylor of Louisville was murdered in her own home by cops who thought she might have drugs there. They searched, and she didn't. What on earth allows this to keep happening over and over again? I looked at a site called Just Security and I thought these words from reporter Mia Bloom, who happens to be Canadian, were pretty clear on what puts you at risk of death in the United States of America, but also in Canada: driving while black, jogging while black, reporting while black, bird watching while black, selling lemonade while black can get you killed. The killers far too often are wearing a uniform. I want to go back to the words reporting while black, because this is something else we've seen in the last four days that we've never seen before, which is the deliberate targeting of reporters by police. Over 100 reporters have been injured in the United States in the last four days. One woman lost her eye. These are serious injuries. Sometimes reporters get in the way of riots and whatnot, but this is different. This is another element altogether. It seems that, in this place, when we have speeches and pretty words to denounce racism, we do it in a kind of cycle. After Colten Boushie's murder, we talked about anti-indigenous racism. We talked about the threat to our indigenous brothers and sisters across this country who also face racism on a daily basis. We talked about the fact that they are disproportionately in our prisons. Just within the last day, the report came down on the killing of Dale Culver in Prince George at the hands of the Prince George RCMP. This indigenous young man was 35 years old, and he was pepper-sprayed until he couldn't breathe. There will be charges in this case. That's the recommendation that just came down. We go through sequential moments where we can say Islamophobia is not okay. Six Muslims at prayer in Quebec City were murdered. We can all stand up and say we denounce Islamophobia. Or we can denounce anti-trans violence against individual trans people who are murdered. We denounce anti-Semitism when we see anti-Semitic graffiti scrawled on the door of an Ottawa rabbi's home. We denounce it, but can we get to the root of it? As the honourable leader of the Conservative Party mentioned, in recent days we're seeing anti-Asian racism on the increase. We're seeing all this happen and we want to be good allies. We want to be a good ally to the family of Regis Korchinski-Paquet. We want to be a good ally. I am a woman of privilege. I got it by mere random accident of birth. I was born to white parents. Privilege is being white. We have to study our privilege. We have to acknowledge our privilege and we have to know, as the Prime Minister said, we're not perfect, but it doesn't give us a free pass to ignore that we have to stand up and we have to speak out. I am sitting so close to my friend here, our minister, Ahmed HussenI say your name out loud, but your tweets brought me to tearsthat this fine man faces racism in his own riding, that his three beautiful black boys have people turn away or clutch their purse or they're a little worried when the kids are around. It sounds exactly like what the Prime Minister just called the microaggressions that many of us might not even see. We can look at our own conduct and our own behaviour. In looking at these things, there is something I want to say, when we look at all these things that are happening and we wonder, what we can do about it. When we see a bully, when we hear hate speech, we have to speak up. We have to speak out and we have to say that the President of the United States is fomenting hatred and violence and it's shameful and shocking that he would grab a Bible, then use tear gas to clear peaceful protestors on a Washington street so that Donald Trump could pose with a Bible in front of an Episcopal church. The Episcopal Bishop of Washington had this to say, because she is a good ally: In no way do we support the President's incendiary response to a wounded, grieving nation. In faithfulness to our Saviour who lived a life of non-violence and sacrificial love, we align ourselves with those seeking justice for the death of George Floyd. That's what we must do in this place. We must acknowledge and speak up for justice for the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, the report on which languishes a year later. We must stand up for justice and we must examine something very worrying. In 2006, the U.S. FBI warned that white supremacist groups were targeting police forces and joining them. If we're looking for real action, things we can do in this place, I call on us to have an inquiry and an examination to root out white supremacist groups in Canada and identify them for what they are, a terrorist threat in our midst. We must make sure they're not in our police forces, because if there is one thing scarier than a white supremacist with a gun, it's a white supremacist with a gun in uniform. Please, God, there are things we can do. Please, God, we love each other, take care of each other regardless of the colour of our skin, and pray for the United States of America. It's a country being ripped apart, and the ripping and the tearing is being done by people who should at this very time be consoling and leading and inspiring. Pray. Pray for Canada. Pray for each and every one of our beautiful black baby girls and boys, the indigenous baby girls and boys, the Asian kids. Wherever you look, reach out and be a good ally. Stand up and say, With my body I get between you and the cops. We have to be good allies. Right now, they're just pretty words. Thank you for listening.",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP)"
},
{
"content": "We will now proceed to presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15minutes. I'd like to remind honourable members that any petition presented during the meeting of this special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The honourable member for NanaimoLadysmith, Mr. Manly.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's difficult to follow that set of speeches. I have a petition on a serious issue dealing with plastic pollution. It creates a major impact on aquatic life but also on human health. It's estimated that 74,000 to 121,000 microplastic particles are ingested per person every year. A recent study shows that each washing cycle 120,000 to 730,000 microfibres are shed from clothes and go directly into waste water. Many of these microfibres are synthetic and therefore are microplastics. Washing machine discharge filters are currently available on the market and greatly reduce the amount of microfibres being released into waste water and thus the environment. This petition is calling on the government to legislate the requirement for all new washing machines to have discharge filters as of 2021 and to provide incentives to all residents of Canada to install discharge filters on current washing machines.",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP)"
},
{
"content": "Presenting petitions, the hon. member for Peace RiverWestlock.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I rise to table a petition signed by Canadians who are concerned about Bill C-7. Given what we've seen in assisted living homes in this country and the devastation particularly in Ontario and Quebec, the petitioners are asking for the government to look into assisted living, not assisted dying.",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace RiverWestlock, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Presenting petitions, the hon. member for SaanichGulf Islands.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's an honour to rise to present a petition today from a number of constituents calling for the government to act to uphold the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action. There is a call to respect the Wet'suwet'en territory and to dismantle RCMP exclusion zones. This petition came some time ago. Some of these issues have been dealt with. I am particularly pleased to note that the nation-to-nation talks called for by petitioners between the Wet'suwet'en and the federal and provincial governments have taken place. I will take this moment if I may to thank the honourable ministers involved in that effort. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May"
},
{
"content": "That will conclude the presenting of petitions. I would ask members who have presented petitions here in person in the House if they would be so kind as to bring their petitions to the table. That would be most appreciated. We'll now go to statements by members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would remind members to do their best to keep their member statement to a maximum of one minute. We'll start statements by members with Mr. Weiler, the member for West VancouverSunshine CoastSea to Sky Country.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I continue to be amazed by how the communities throughout my riding have stepped up to support our most vulnerable at our time of crisis. In many ways it has brought our communities closer together even while we stay physically distant. Nowhere is this more true than on the Sunshine Coast. Dedicated individuals immediately and organically mobilized the Sunshine Coast community task force to coordinate local government, non-profit and business efforts to provide critical services to the community. Social enterprises banded together to form the Sunshine Coast food service response, which provides ready-made meals and donates to food banks. Persephone Brewing and others deliver groceries to at-risk customers both on the coast and on isolated islands. The 101 Brewhouse + Distillery and Bruinwood Distillery quickly retooled their business to supply much-needed hand sanitizer to local hospitals and other front-line workers. COVID-19, like all crises, has highlighted true leadership in our society, and I am grateful for what they and all of our health care workers do every day to get us through this.",
"speaker": "Mr. Patrick Weiler (West VancouverSunshine CoastSea to Sky Country, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "The hon. member for Medicine HatCardstonWarner, Mr. Motz.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister and his cabinet have shown they're unwilling to put the protection and safety of Canadians ahead of political interests. They themselves are the greatest source of disinformation in this country. The Prime Minister told Canadians that they can buy a gun without a licence. Either purposely or because of ignorance, he left out the fact that doing so is a criminal offence with a five-year prison sentence. The Minister of Public Safety said he wouldn't target hunters, but then he went ahead and banned numerous bolt-action hunting rifles and made owning a shotgun a criminal offence. They have weakened the ability to protect our borders. They have ignored our rampant drug crisis, and they have weakened sentences for serious crimes, all while saying they take these issues very seriously. Today they tell us they are banning a new Liberal-invented type of firearm, a military-style assault rifle. It's time to be honest with Canadians. The Liberals would rather make people afraid of hunters, farmers and sport shooters than deal with the real issues like drugs, gangs, illegal smuggling and crime.",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz (Medicine HatCardstonWarner, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Ms. Sgro, the hon. member for Humber RiverBlack Creek.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it is in our most difficult moments when we truly see stunning displays of human spirit and generosity. On that note, today I wish to recognize the work of the Humber River Hospital in my riding of Humber RiverBlack Creek and to congratulate them on the success of their Humber front-line support fund and PPE drive. Not only have they been on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic keeping our residents safe and healthy, but thanks to the generosity of those both in my riding and beyond, the Humber River Hospital has raised over $1 million and received over 400,000 pieces of personal protective equipment. This will be invaluable to the hospital as they continue to work with us and fight the good fight to keep us all healthy. I thank all those brave workers at the hospital, and I thank those generous individuals who have donated to this important cause.",
"speaker": "Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber RiverBlack Creek, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "I now invite the hon. member for AbitibiTmiscamingue, Mr.Lemire, to take the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. I am honoured to speak to you about a proud warrior. StephanLavoie had made the choice to say thank you to life. For several years, he had been using his fight against cancer, which he led with the help of natural products only, to ensure cancer services and care were improved, particularly in regions far from major centres. Mayor of Preissac, in the RCM of Abitibi, StephanLavoie passed away yesterday. I would like to extend my condolences to his wife, Anabelle, to his entire family and especially to his daughter, Astrid, who is only 20months old. Through his humanism, StephanLavoie was a warrior, a visionary and a great source of inspiration for all of us. To me, he was above all the perfect model of a committed and loving father. My thoughts also go out to the citizens of Preissac, to whom he leaves a dynamic legacy, and to the leaders of the Abitibi community. In our first conversation, he said to me, and I hope the House will echo it forever, that all of our decisions must be made with our children in mind. Stephan, rest in peace, dear friend.",
"speaker": "Mr. Sbastien Lemire (AbitibiTmiscamingue, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "The hon. member for MontRoyal, Mr.Housefather, has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "It is with great sadness that I rise today to pay tribute to Tristan Roy, after his tragic passing exactly two weeks ago. Born in Saint-Fabien-sur-Mer, Tristan became a pillar of the MontRoyal community in1997 when he bought the old MontRoyal newspaper. When the city's oldest newspaper, the TMR Weekly Post ceased operations, Tristan registered the name and renamed his newspaper the TMR Poste de Mont-Royal. He created a truly bilingual newspaper, ensuring that TMR residents could receive their news in both French and English. His editorials and views on local issues carried enormous weight. I join Mayor Philippe Roy and the members of the town council in offering our sincere condolences to Tristan's wife, Anne-Marie, his daughter, Aril, and his son, Lancelot. We all considered Tristan to be a friend, an example of what a good journalist and editor should be and could be. He will be sorely missed.",
"speaker": "Mr. Anthony Housefather (Mount Royal, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "The hon. member for Beauce, Mr.Lehoux, has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, if you didn't already know, people from Beauce are proud. There is Marie-PhilipPoulin of Beauceville, who was named the best female hockey player in the world earlier this year, or AntonyAuclair of Notre-Dame-des-Pins. AntonyAuclair said, in a CBC article, that Beauce had prepared him for his arrival in the NFL. There is also GuillaumeCouture, from Sainte-Marie, who made his mother very proud, and everyone from Beauce indirectly, on the program Les Chefs again last night. It is this same pride that I see throughout the region, with companies like Revtech Systmes, in Saint-Joseph-de-Beauce, or PuriHaze, in Sainte-Marie, which have invented robots to decontaminate spaces. There are also local purchasing initiatives such as the #onlaici campaign by the Nouvelle-Beauce chamber of commerce and industry or Achetons beauceron, by the Saint-Georges chamber of commerce. Today I have but two words for my constituents: thank you. I thank them for continuing to encourage local businesses that greatly need it. I thank them for being loyal to their habits and to rolling up their sleeves to help their neighbours. I thank them for being proud and being residents of Beauce.",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux (Beauce, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go now to the member for Don Valley East, Ms. Ratansi.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our government has shown leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic by ensuring that Canadians remain safe and get the financial assistance they need. Eight million Canadians are receiving the Canada emergency response benefit. The Canada emergency business account and the Canada emergency wage subsidy ensure that the economy is ready to start up post-pandemic. Seniors received top-ups to the OAS and GIS, and families, the child care benefit. All of these measures are helping thousands of seniors and low-income families in my riding of Don Valley East. The feedback from my regular virtual town halls has also helped to fine-tune many of the programs. Many Canadians have shown generosity during this crisis. I want to particularly thank Saravanaa Bhavan and Happy Pops for donating food and frozen treats to our superhero front-line workers at local hospitals.",
"speaker": "Ms. Yasmin Ratansi (Don Valley East, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to the honourable member for VaughanWoodbridge, Mr. Sorbara.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, even though this year's festivities for Italian Heritage Month will be done differently, the same spirit and vitality exists throughout virtual events happening across the country. Virtual events have seen Italian Canadians, through their generosity, raise over $1 million to help Italy during COVID-19. Today, June 2, Italian citizens celebrate the founding of the modern day Italian Republic. The Italian Canadian story remains one of passion, an adopted homeland filled with hard work, sacrifice and optimism. Generations of Italian Canadians have contributed much to shaping the inclusive and generous Canada that we know today. Our diversity is our strength, and I'm proud to be Italian Canadian. Let's all join together in proudly celebrating Italian Heritage Month. Thank you, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Mr. Francesco Sorbara (VaughanWoodbridge, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to the honourable member for Calgary Skyview, Ms. Sahota.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as communities begin to ease restrictions, I remain mystified that, according to this government, Parliament is not an essential service. If it were up to the Prime Minister, he would not have to answer to anyone. That is not how democracy works. We in the opposition have been long calling for the return of Parliament, which would be possible while still maintaining public health guidelines. Canadians deserve to be represented in the House of Commons by the elected member of Parliament. While the work we do in our constituencies is incredibly important, it is equally important to bring those voices back to Ottawa to debate, to question and to hold the government to account. This is fundamental to the role of an elected representative. The role of the opposition is crucial now more than ever when billions of dollars are being spent with little oversight. Our role as members of Parliament is to uphold our democracy and to be present. This is the greatest pandemic in our lifetime. Now is not the time to hide behind a podium. If this government were doing the best job for Canadians, they would not need to hide. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Ms. Jag Sahota (Calgary Skyview, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to the honourable member for Brampton East, Mr. Sidhu.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I would like to take a moment to highlight displays of generosity in my riding of Brampton East. This is just a small sample of the many individuals and organizations that have stepped up across Canada. Khalsa Aid has been providing food supplies with the help of Sperenza Banquet Hall, which has graciously provided the space to run a province-wide campaign out of Brampton East. Care4Cause has sent hundreds of prepared meals on a weekly basis to Good Shepherd Ministries to lessen their load. Navraj Brar at Pharmasave has offered free care packages to health care workers and hand sanitizer to the Peel Regional Police. Aujla Salon and Spa has partnered with GlobalMedic to help deliver over 10,000 pounds of food to local food banks. I would also like to point out the heroic efforts of our truck drivers, taxi drivers, grocery store clerks, nurses, doctors, paramedics and countless other front-line heroes. We see you and we are immensely grateful for the bravery you display each and every day. Thank you to everyone in Brampton East who has stepped up for their neighbour in their time of need. You are setting a great example of the kind of progress we can make as Canadians when we come together and support each other. I am truly honoured to represent you in Ottawa.",
"speaker": "Mr. Maninder Sidhu (Brampton East, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to the honourable member for WellingtonHalton Hills, Mr. Chong.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the House of Commons is shut down. Let's be clear. This is not the House of Commons. It's a committee where only statements, petitions and questions are allowed. There is no power to introduce motions, to test confidence or to vote. The government came to office promising greater democracy but they broke their promise on electoral reform. They tried to give the PMO the control over this House in motion 6, and yesterday's report confirms that they rigged the leaders debate in their favour in the last election. Now they've shuttered Parliament. Parliament sat through two world wars, the October crisis and previous pandemics and it survived the test, but not now. The people's representatives need to sit. People need their representation. Parliament and this House of Commons with its full powers needs to reopen and it needs to reopen now.",
"speaker": "Hon. Michael Chong (WellingtonHalton Hills, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member for ReginaQu'Appelle.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, these past few months have been tremendously difficult for so many Canadians: sickness, losing loved ones, job losses, economic hardships, loneliness and isolation. The pandemic has taken its toll on so many. It is in these times of suffering and adversity that we have seen Canadians coming together to support each other and that brings us hope. Mosques, churches, synagogues and gurdwaras have all answered the call to help their communities. Whether it's providing meals to the hungry, clothing for the cold, or technology for those who need it most, these actions are true reflections of the kindness and generosity that Canadians are known for. While there are too many groups to mention them all, I want to thank Vikas Sharma and Care4Cause out of Brampton for the meals that they have been providing their community in that area and across the GTA. This group and thousands of others like it across the country are working tirelessly to ease the suffering of others and help those in need. Thank you, and God bless all the volunteers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Now we will go to the honourable member for Winnipeg Centre. Ms. Gazan, go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I rise today in honour of National Indigenous History Month to speak truth about a history of racism in Canada that was built on the wrongful dispossession of lands from indigenous people and controlled through the use of police-state violence that has resulted in a loss of life, freedom, respect and dignity. Even today we continue to observe this reality in my very own city where we witnessed the killing of three indigenous youth by police in a span of 10 days this past April. This is not a coincidence. We have statistics. We have research, and we have stories of loved ones lost. We know it, and we see it in our lives every day. We need to address police violence throughout this country. Canadians are rising from coast to coast demanding this of all of us and sending a clear message that we must address systemic racism in all of its forms to ensure justice for all. There will never be reconciliation in the absence of justice.",
"speaker": "Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "The hon. member for BeauportLimoilou, Mrs.Vignola, has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, Canada Post is literally not delivering the goods. But the postal service is an essential service, and even more so today because everything is done online, even local shopping. The current crisis partly explains the congestion, but it is mainly due to the fact that Canada Post forgot to join the 21stcentury. It has been left behind where others have made millions of dollars. Its platform isn't effective. It's now delivering more parcels, but it's losing money. There's a statement to make here, right now. In the immediate term, Canada Post must deal with the delays, and to do so, it needs the help of the Government of Canada. Canada Post needs to hire staff. If a collective agreement had finally been signed, it would make it easier to hire staff. We have been waiting for two and a half years. A premium for essential workers might also be appropriate. As I said, the postal service is an essential service, and it's time to give it the importance this status imposes.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Julie Vignola (BeauportLimoilou, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to the honourable member for Calgary Centre. Mr. McLean, go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the prospects in Canada's oil fields are bleak in the near term. Capital spending forecasts and drilling activities sank to a 49-year low. This is a result of the temporary collapse in demand for our most valuable commodity and the one that contributes the most to our GDP, our balance of trade, and whose taxes support the social programs Canadians enjoy, $108 billion in GDP, $8 billion per year in government revenues, $77 billion in trade surplus. It is a rude blow to hard-working professionals who soldier past negligent government policies that have left a stain on another generation of western Canadians. We're talking about an industry here that directly employs over 200,000, including 11,000 indigenous Canadians. We're talking about an industry that contributes 75% of Canada's investment in clean technology. However, Canada's resource industry will still be resilient. Bad policy cannot permanently erase the work, the hope and the pride of forward thinkers and doers, and their efforts to continue building a great country. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to the honourable member for Winnipeg South. Mr. Duguid, go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, today I want to give a special thank you to the health care workers at Victoria General Hospital, who are serving patients in our community here in Winnipeg South. Every day, doctors, nurses and staff work selflessly to take care of those in our community who need it most. Whether it's by keeping seniors connected with their families by using iPads or making sure that patients go home with a special care package, staff at the Vic are doing extraordinary work to make this difficult time just a little bit easier. I would also like to give a big shout-out to our wonderful small businesses in Winnipeg South that continue to show their appreciation by preparing meals for the hard-working staff at the Vic. Folks in our community continue to show what it means to be exemplary Canadians, and it is a great honour to represent them.",
"speaker": "Mr. Terry Duguid (Winnipeg South, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "This concludes the period for statements by members. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. The honourable Leader of the Opposition.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the staff of long-term care facilities for seniors are showing exceptional courage and dedication. FranoisLegault asked that the military personnel currently helping in facilities in Quebec stay until the fall. The Prime Minister said no. I'd like to hear the Prime Minister tell us why they can't stay.",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, like all Canadians, I am deeply grateful for the extraordinary work that the Canadian Armed Forces are doing in long-term care facilities in Quebec and Ontario. Thanks to their reports, we've seen that the situation was even worse than we feared. The work our military is doing is extraordinary. We will continue to support them, but we know that having military personnel in our long-term care facilities isn't a long-term solution. Therefore, we are going to work with Quebec to find better long-term solutions.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, now that Bell Canada has decided to partner with Ericsson to deliver its 5G network, the Liberals will undoubtedly ban Huawei, but the Liberal inaction on Huawei is just another example of this government's weak leadership. Instead of deciding for himself a year ago, the Prime Minister is forcing the business community to make the decision for him. Why couldn't the Prime Minister have shown some backbone and banned Huawei a year ago?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our approach every step of the way has been to listen to experts, to work with allies and to listen to the counsel of our security and intelligence community, which has been looking into this issue. We know we need to make sure that Canadian businesses, Canadians and Canadian infrastructure are protected at the same time as we remain competitive in the world. That has guided our approach on this from the beginning.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "The fact of the matter, Mr Chair, is that it hasn't. The former public safety minister, Ralph Goodale, promised in this House over a year ago that an answer on Huawei would be coming. Here we are, it's June 2, 2020, and they still haven't made a decision. On another topic, Mr. Chair, the President of the Treasury Board wrote to cabinet last week and said that transparency is important even in a time of crisis. I guess the Minister of Infrastructure didn't get that letter. She's refusing to tell us how much of a bonus she gave to the departing head of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. At a time when Canadians are struggling, it is disgusting that the Liberals are paying out bonuses to someone who accomplished nothing. Will the Prime Minister have a little respect for taxpayers and tell us exactly how much of a bonus the CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank received?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the mandate of the Canada Infrastructure Bank is to find innovative ways to finance some of Canada's biggest infrastructure projects by leveraging private capital. The remuneration range of the former CEO has been in the public domain for more than two years. The opposition is looking backward. We're moving forward. The bank is moving into its next phase of development, now under the leadership of the new board chair, Michael Sabia, and will play an important role in the recovery when the time comes.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, only to a Liberal would an innovative approach to building infrastructure mean building absolutely nothing. The CEO of an infrastructure bank who accomplished zero completed infrastructure projects should not be receiving a bonus. I didn't ask a question about the remuneration. I didn't ask a question about the salary. This individual received a bonus. How much was that bonus?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I said, the remuneration range of this former CEO has been in the public domain for more than two years. In regard to further payments, we do not comment on personal HR and financial information of individuals in government.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, again, I did not ask about the remuneration. I asked about the bonus. The Canada Infrastructure Bank was a Liberal scheme designed to protect the investments of private investors and put all the risk onto taxpayers. Even with that model, do you know how many projects they completed? Zero. Yet, the individual in charge of that received a bonus from the Prime Minister. Apparently, to the Liberals, he was doing a good job. They might try to claim that it's arm's length and that they can't divulge this information, but we know that Minister Champagne personally intervened in the decision regarding the bonus of the Canada Infrastructure Bank's CEO. It's a simple question. How much did that individual receive?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, five years ago, when we first got elected, we had to turn around the underinvestment that Stephen Harper's Conservatives had made in infrastructure across the country. Even during the depths of the 2008 recession, the investments they made were for things like doorknobs and signs. They went into debt and didn't have anything to show for it. We're going to continue to move forward on historic investments in infrastructure to build up this country. We're using innovative means like the infrastructure bank to do that.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member for BeloeilChambly has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, well before 1867, in what became Quebec, in New Brunswick, in Acadia, in Ontario and in the west, lay the seeds of what later became the provinces of Canada and Quebec. It can therefore be inferred that Canada is a creature of the provinces and that the provinces are not creatures of Canada. Could the Prime Minister read his answer to this question: who pays for the health transfers to the provinces?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we have a country with a number of levels of government working together to serve Canadians. In times of crisis, but also in good times, Canadians expect that their governments will work together to provide the services and the care that they need. That is exactly what we are doing.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Let me remind the Prime Minister that all the provinces and Quebec are asking for increased and recurring health transfers that are unconditional and sustainable. Who pays for the all-too-meagre benefits made available to the seniors of Quebec and Canada?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we have worked with Quebec and the other provinces to make sure that we invest in health transfers. We have made transfers of $500million, that's halfabillion dollars, because of the recent COVID-19 crisis. We will continue to work with the provinces in the long term. But, for the moment, we are working on the emergency situation in which we find ourselves.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the Conservatives have backtracked on the wage subsidy, and I congratulate them for that. Who pays for the part of the wage subsidy program that will be going into the coffers of the Liberal Party of Canada?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, since this crisis began, we have made investments to protect jobs and workers, including accountants, human resources managers and receptionists. We are in the process of ensuring that people with all kinds of jobs in all kinds of organizations will be able to keep those jobs.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, it is comforting to know that they are a little richer now, but some companies are under threat because the Liberal Party is a little richer. Who is going to pay for the fact that one company has been chosen by a closed call for tender? One company has been awarded a private contract, probably a foreign multinational, probably for 2021, while we are perfectly capable of doing the work in Quebec and in Canada. Who is going to pay for this gift to a private company that will be doing the Government of Canada's work?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we are in a crisis. We are in the process of helping workers and helping Canadians by means of measures like the Canada emergency response benefit, the Canada emergency wage subsidy and with the assistance to companies, We will continue to do what we must do to help workers all across the country so that we can come out of this crisis together.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Fundamentally, my impression was that, in a crisis, civil society turns to the state to find and implement solutions. I see that, in this case, and in all its operations, the Government of Canada takes money, about 20% of which comes from Quebec, and gives it to a private company, possibly a foreign company, so that it can tell us what will happen, although the first wave will have come and gone for a year already. Is the Prime Minister telling us that he is incapable of doing his job?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, Canadians expect their government to look after their health and the health of the economy. That is exactly what we are doing. We are here for workers, we are here for families, we are here for our seniors and for our students. We will continue to be here throughout this pandemic and as the economy reopens. That is what Canadians expect of us and we will meet their expectations.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Blanchet, you have about 40seconds left.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, as I see it, the Prime Minister is contracting out his job with taxpayers' money, a part of which is going into his party's bank account for the next election. Is that the only explanation of his role he has for the residents of Quebec, a role that is currently protected by a crisis?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, all across the country, including in Quebec, people are worried about their jobs because of the crisis that the pandemic is causing. We are providing a wage subsidy to organizations and to companies to ensure that people will receive their paycheques in order to support their families and pay their rent. That is what people expected from this government as a priority.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to the honourable member for Burnaby South, Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, people are fed up with pretty words from people in power. The Prime Minister has the power to do something about the anti-black racism that Canada is faced with. Will the Prime Minister end racial profiling in Canada against black people once and for all?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this government was the first government to recognize anti-black racism, systemic discrimination and unconscious bias and to take concrete actions against them in the context of the UN International Decade for People of African Descent but also in the context of a country that stands up for human rights and protects everyone. We have made significant steps forward, but there is so much to do, and I look forward to working with all members in this House to do just that.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "I did not hear an answer. Will the Prime Minister end the racial profiling of black people in Canada?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our justice system unfairly targets in many situations racialized Canadians, including indigenous Canadians and black Canadians. We know we need to improve our justice system and rates of incarceration and we will work on it.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Will the Prime Minister end the over-policing and over-incarceration of black and indigenous people?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, systemic discrimination means that people of colour are at greater risk of being incarcerated than others when facing negative outcomes in the justice system. We know we need to work on all the determinants of that. We will work as a country together.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Will the Prime Minister make sure Canada is collecting disaggregated data on the impacts of COVID-19 on racialized people, particularly indigenous and black people?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, not just on COVID-19 but on all ranges of data, we've made investments over the past years to Statistics Canada so that they are better able to collect data in a disaggregated fashion. We need to know what is happening within vulnerable communities. Disaggregated data will help, and we're working with provinces on the COVID-19 data.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We know people are frustrated with anti-black racism. People are also incredibly frustrated with anti-indigenous racism. Will the Prime Minister commit to ending the over-incarceration, over-policing and racial profiling of indigenous people?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I referred to that in an earlier answer. Yes, we need to work to ensure that the rates of incarceration for indigenous people and for racialized Canadians are reduced. There are many measures we're working on to move forward to make our justice system fairer, to reduce systemic discrimination and eventually to eliminate it.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Here are two specific things we can do. I asked the Prime Minister if he will commit to stop taking indigenous kids to court, and if he will stop delaying the response to the murdered and missing indigenous women and girls calls for justice.",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, tomorrow is the anniversary of the end of the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls inquiry. We have been working over the past year with partners on the ground to formulate the measures and the response that needs to move forward. Many of those partners over the past months have been engaged in keeping their communities safe and working hard on that, and that has delayed the putting out of the report.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Will the Prime Minister stop taking indigenous kids to court when it comes to indigenous child welfare?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we agree that we need to compensate kids and indigenous peoples who have suffered harm at the hands of our child and family services over the past decades and we will do that.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Will the Prime Minister commit to not just pretty words but real action ensuring that all indigenous communities have access to clean drinking water?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the NDP needs to know that we have eliminated over 80 long-term boil water advisories through our work over the past years, and we are on track to eliminating all of them on time by next spring. This is something we committed to Canadians and we are doing.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister needs to speak to indigenous communities who talk of a completely different reality. They do not have access to clean drinking water, and communities are going off the list only to return back on to the list of boil water advisories. Will the Prime Minister commit to ensuring all indigenous communities have clean drinking water?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, that was a commitment we made to Canadians and a commitment we are keeping. The member opposite continues to talk as if there has been no progress made. There has been significant progress made. We are on track to eliminating those boil water advisories. It would be great if the members opposite talked about some good news instead of just highlighting the very real problems that are there. There is good news and there is challenging news. We are working on those together.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to the honourable member for Carleton, Mr. Poilievre.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, what share of Canada's national debt is owed to foreign lenders?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pierre Poilievre (Carleton, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we continue to manage our fiscal situation in a responsible manner, and we'll continue to do that.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance)"
},
{
"content": "How much does the Government of Canada owe to the People's Republic of China?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pierre Poilievre"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we would be happy to provide information. If the member would like to send my office questions directly, I'd be happy to provide this information.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "It turns out I did a week ago. They still haven't provided answers to the questions, in particular the question regarding who owns Canada's foreign-held debt. We know that roughly a third of our debt is owned by foreigners. How much of that debt is owned by lenders from the People's Republic of China?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pierre Poilievre"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I said, we'd be happy to reply to these questions directly. We'll do so. We'll get to it in order, as we work through this crisis, making sure we focus on Canadians first.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "How much is owned by lenders from Saudi Arabia?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pierre Poilievre"
},
{
"content": "Again, Mr. Chair, we'd be happy to provide information in this regard should the member wish to send a request directly to my office.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Which I have. Mr. Chair, moving along to the impacts of the debt on our people, how much would a 1% increase in the effective interest rate on Canada's national debt cost Canadian taxpayers?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pierre Poilievre"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we continue to manage our treasury function responsibly. I'd be happy to get financial calculations to the member if he'd like to send those directly to my office.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "All right, Mr. Chair, we'll try a different question, then, as we're not getting any answers. We have lower interest rates than ever before. Normally, it means you lock in those rates for the long run. Anybody who has a mortgage knows you lock in for the long run when rates are low. What percentage of Canada's national debt is locked in for more than five years?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pierre Poilievre"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'd be happy to get this information to the member, but I would acknowledge that as we manage the treasury function for the Government of Canada, we look at the short term, the medium term and the long term. We think we have come up with a responsible approach to managing the ongoing debt that we have as a country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it turns out, according to Department of Finance officials, that less than 3% of Canada's recently added debt since March is for terms of more than five years. Why has this minister made Canada so susceptible to future interest rate hikes by failing to lock in the $371.5 billion of new debt he's added in the last two and a half months?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pierre Poilievre"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we continue to manage the treasury function of the Government of Canada in a responsible way, making sure we consider what debt should be issued in a short term, a medium term and a long term, which we've been doing as the Government of Canada during our entire term and as previous governments have done as well.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Canadians would be wise not to hire this minister as their mortgage broker if they're looking to get the best rate. Let's move on to the Canadian household. The average household was $200 away from insolvency before this crisis began. How many Canadians would experience bankruptcy in the next 12 months if interest rates were to rise by an effective one percentage point?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pierre Poilievre"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, again, we'd be happy to get calculations to the member. I would make the observation that what we've been working to do during the course of this pandemic is to support Canadians and support Canadian families by providing them income during a time when they don't have access to income because they're actually at home. We think that has supported them in a very, very positive way that allows us to ensure that we will have a continuing economy when we get through this crisis.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Poilievre. Go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Unfortunately, we will have a $1-trillion debt when this fiscal year comes to an end. How much will the finance minister try to raise taxes if interest rates on that debt rise by, say, 1%?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pierre Poilievre"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I've said to the House previously, we do not intend to raise taxes. What the member opposite is suggesting is that we shouldn't be investing to support Canadians. I think the approach we've taken, with the emergency response benefit and the wage subsidy, has been particularly critical for enabling Canadians to get through a very challenging time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "The floor goes to the honourable member for Beauce, Mr.Lehoux.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, my question goes to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. Day after day, I speak with those involved in the world of agriculture and with witnesses appearing before the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. The consensus is very clear: the business risk management programs are not working. When will the Minister become involved and make major changes to those programs?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we have made commitments to producers all across the country. Some programs are already provided, including the risk management programs. I am working regularly with my colleagues in the provinces in order to improve them. We have also increased our contribution to various other programs, specifically in the meat sector, for pork or beef producers, and food processors.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I have been hearing the same answers for several weeks now. Could the Minister simply give us a date?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "I repeat that we are working regularly with producers and their representatives. In addition, I am working together with my provincial colleagues. We are going to determine where the gaps are and we will identify the sectors that most need our assistance. Then, we will determine the best way to provide them with the assistance they need.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the government promised to set its share of the business risk management programs at 60%, even if a province or territory does not participate. Have the provinces received the money, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "Here is how it works. Through the AgriRecovery program, we have provided $50million for pork producers and $50million for beef producers. The program is available everywhere, but the provinces are responsible for implementing it.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, when will that transfer be made? Can the minister simply give us a date? That is all we are asking.",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I would really like to be able to give a date, but the answer depends on each of the provinces. The provinces have to implement the program.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "However, Mr.Chair, the minister has told us that she is ready to transfer the funds, whether or not the provinces add any to the program. To date, we still have no answer in that regard. How does the Minister of Agriculture intend to make major changes to the various risk management programs by July, when the government has itself pushed back the federal-provincial-territorial meeting of Ministers of Agriculture to October? We have been meeting by Zoom for some time now. Why was that not able to be an option?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I meet with my provincial colleagues every week, either by conference call or by Zoom. I can assure my colleague about our ongoing collaboration with the provinces. As for the AgriRecovery program, once again, the provinces have to implement it and it is their choice to contribute their share of 40% or not, in whole or in part. However, our federal commitment on the 60% share is firm.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, if I understand correctly, there will be no changes to the various programs before November. The sectors of agriculture under supply management, like eggs and poultry producers in my constituency, who have been promised compensation for a long time, want to know when the money will be transferred to the producers who are working tirelessly to feed our country.",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "I know that poultry, egg and milk producers work extremely hard. Our commitment to them in terms of compensation in response to the three free-trade agreements is still firm. At the moment, we are concentrating on emergency programs. We will then proceed with that compensation.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Lehoux, you have about 30seconds left.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. As I see it, I still have not had an answer. The country is moving towards more automation. I am thinking, for example, about the advances that many SMEs and farmers in my constituency could implement in their companies. Unfortunately, in the regions, the Internet is far from adequate. When will I be able to tell my constituents that reliable Internet service will be available in their homes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "I assure you that we recognize the importance of the Internet in rural regions. I myself represent a rural constituency and it is a challenge every day. We are working with our colleagues, the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry and the Minister of Rural Economic Development to speed up the implementation of programs along those lines.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now proceed to Mr. Motz.",
"speaker": "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.))"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, for the Minister of Public Safety, Minister Blair, how many times has the list of banned firearms changed since May 1?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "My understanding is that an order in council was made on May 1, and we have not made any changes to that order in council.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness)"
},
{
"content": "That's untrue. How many more firearms have been added to the original prohibited list since that date?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "I suspect the member may be referring to the work that the RCMP has been doing through the Canadian firearms program in order to apply the order in council that was passed.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Before we go to Mr. Motz, I want to ask all honourable members to ensure that they are on mute. We are getting some voices in the background. Mr. Motz, please continue.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "How many .22 calibre rifles, firearms, are on that banned list?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "To be very clear, Mr. Chair, the banned list includes a number of assault-style rifles, including the AR-15. The member may be referring to a weapon that the RCMP has identified as using an AR-15 frame, which of course",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Again, that is a wrong answer, Mr. Chair. How many shotguns are now on that banned list?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "That is a bit of confusion put out by the gun lobby to frighten hunters. In fact, we did not prohibit any shotguns.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Again, that is another untruth, Mr. Chair. Are there any airsoft guns on the prohibited list?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "That's another bit of mistruth and deception put out by the gun lobby. In fact, there was a weapon called the Blackwater AR-15, which was a real gun that was prohibited, but the toy gun, the airsoft one, was not.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "That's untrue. I know some of those exact firearms that are on that list. Why is the RCMP continuing to add firearms to the prohibited list after the list was published?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it is a very important that the RCMP, as the agency responsible for administering the Canadian firearms program, continues to do its diligence to keep Canadians safe.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Why has there been no notice given to firearms owners, retailers or the police of the many changes to the banned firearms list?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "Again, Mr. Chair, it is very important that the Canadian firearms program and the RCMP continue to do the important work of ensuring that Canadians are kept safe.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "How many firearms have been transferred between licensed gun owners and/or retailers since May 1?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "Again, I do not have that information and, as the member probably knows, records are not kept by the government or by law enforcement about the transfer of firearms that are not restricted.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "How many firearms have been retroactively changed to prohibited since May 1? Of the firearms that have been transferred, how many now are retroactively prohibited since May 1?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, to be very clear, on May 1, by order in council, we prohibited 1,500 somewhat different types of firearms, all based upon a military design. Those are the weapons that are prohibited.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Since that time you have added almost 700 more, and none of those meet that category you are trying to establish. If a firearm that was not on the original prohibited list was transferred since May 1 and now that firearm appears on that prohibited list, are those transfers subject to a criminal prosecution?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "Again, the member is asking me a question that is solely the responsibility of the law enforcement agency of jurisdiction, and that is their decision, not ours.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "The minister has said that the issuance of firearm licences and transfers was stopped recently due to a printer failure. We now know that to be completely false. There was no such failure, but an ordered shutdown. Who ordered the RCMP to withhold these services from law-abiding Canadians?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "I have absolutely no knowledge of the allegation the member has just made, Mr. Chair, and so I cannot really confirm or deny that it actually ever happened.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Maybe the minister needs to check with his officials and find out who actually did the ordering. What does the minister believe to be the estimated cost of the firearms confiscation plan?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, there was no firearms confiscation plan. We will, however, be bringing legislation forward at the very first opportunity to facilitate a buyback program that will treat Canadians who purchased these firearms fairly.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "You can't buy back something that you never owned in the first place, Mr. Chair. These costs must include administration, price per firearm, as well as the industry costs. We know that industry costs are over $1 billion. If this minister doesn't know the cost, maybe he's as incompetent as our Minister of Finance. I am wondering, Chair, through you, why the law enforcement notes were removed from the firearms reference table?",
"speaker": "Mr. Glen Motz"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind the honourable members that parliamentary language is something we need to respect in the House. We should be careful what we say. The honourable minister may reply.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'd just like to advise you and this House that our purpose is to protect the lives of Canadians, and we are taking strong action to strengthen gun control. We are not influenced by the gun lobby or by gun manufacturers, only by our interest in keeping Canadians safe.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "We will now continue to Mr. Duncan.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I want to start by thanking the government for listening to my proposals a couple of weeks ago regarding the extension of benefits for vulnerable Canadians who may not have been able to file their income tax by this week's deadline. There are millions of relieved seniors with GIS and parents with the child tax benefit and GST who now know they have a bit of time and protection and aren't to be cut off from their benefits. I'm hoping to go two for two here today, so there's no pressure to the Minister of Public Safety. I want to build on the comments last week from Ms. Gladu, my colleague from SarniaLambton, about family reunification between Canadians and Americans. Many constituents in my riding are concerned and are caught in this situation. I certainly support, and I think we support in this chamber, the idea of the extension for travel. However, it's now been three months since many spouses have seen each other, and there are Canadian and American children in custody arrangements who have seen their parent only on one side of the border or the other. After stating for months that reunifying families wasn't considered essential travel, I am thankful that he and the Prime Minister have now said that it is. Will the minister agree to the safe and fair proposal we outlined in our letter last week, which would exempt spouses, children and those with medical needs travelling back and forth with accompanying documentation, so that we can get people and their families back together?",
"speaker": "Mr. Eric Duncan (StormontDundasSouth Glengarry, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I'd like to thank the member for what I think is a very important question and I want to assure him that I have had similar conversations with members of this House from all parties and representing all parts of the country. We recognize the challenge that this particular policy of restricting non-essential travel has meant for families. It is not our intention and never will be our intention to separate families. We are working very closely with the CBSA to ensure that individuals are treated fairly. I want to share this with the member and honourable members of this House. Any change we make to our arrangement at the border will require a change by an order in council. Because there is a great deal of concern in our communities and from our provincial and territorial partners about the movement of people across our border, any change has to be discussed and negotiated with our provincial partners. Some of them, you may be aware, have expressed some concern, and we're addressing those concerns because we respect their concerns. At the same time we are working very hard, and I am very hopeful that we'll be able to resolve this challenge to the satisfaction of the many Canadians you and everyone else represents.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind the honourable members that when they are asking or answering a question, they should speak through the Chair and not directly to the other member. We will go back to Mr. Duncan.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "We were looking at each other. It's a bad habit. To the minister, I appreciate the comments. I will just note that the Canadian and American governments have worked with provinces, as we have with the Minister of Foreign Affairs, to repatriate Canadians from around the world. There have been quarantine protocols put in place to allow that. There are protocols and there is a precedence. I am just wondering why there is a delay in acknowledging the families part. I believe there is a precedent and I believe there is a background there, and I think we can, through an order in council or whatever measure, get people back with their families. Can the minister explain why reunifying families needs to be any different from repatriating Canadians from other countries?",
"speaker": "Mr. Eric Duncan"
},
{
"content": "Again I thank the member, because this is a very important issue and it's important to us as well. We have been working over the past couple of weeks very diligently on trying to find a resolution of this problem, because it is never our intention to separate families and we have all heard some very heart-wrenching concerns that have been raised. At the same time, I think it's important to work very closely, as we have done, with our provincial and territorial partners to ensure that we address the concerns they have raised. We are prepared to move forward and we are working very hard to resolve the concerns that were raised so that we can have a positive answer to those many families, and we",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Duncan.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I appreciate that comment from the minister. I want to share the story of a constituent of mine, Mr. David Lee, from Cornwall. He and his wife Maria have been married for a couple of years now. She is an American citizen. They spend about five months of the year in Texas and five months in Cornwall and would generally travel about two months of the year. However, she couldn't come up to Canada because of the restrictions that have been put in place, and it's certainly putting a strain on them. Can the minister confirm that the three concerns we outlined in our letter are being discussed as part of reaching a solution or a resolution as soon as possible? The three concerns are that spouses and long-term partners can be reunited, that children with child custody arrangements can see both of their parents, and that if somebody needs to travel back or forth over the border for medical appointments, they can do that and can stay with their spouse. Can you confirm that all three are on the table and will be addressed?",
"speaker": "Mr. Eric Duncan"
},
{
"content": "What I can confirm is that we're working hard to make sure we keep families together. I want to reiterate, because you raise a very important point, that when people cross the border they're still subject to the quarantine orders of public health. That's for the protection of all Canadians. You mentioned travelling back and forth across the border. If the travel is deemed essential, that is an exception, but if it is not deemed essential, then a person must go into quarantine for 14 days. That's one of the concerns the provinces have raised with us and one of the assurances they have sought. We're working to provide those assurances.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Before we go to the next line of questioning, I want to remind the honourable members that we have interpreters who are working very hard to translate from one language to the other. I therefore ask you to speak a little more slowly out of consideration for the interpreters, who are doing a really good job. We'll now go to Mr. Kram.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I've had the opportunity to talk with Mr. James Bogusz, CEO of the Regina Airport Authority, and he paints a grim picture. He expects the airport to be out of money by the end of the summer. The loss of the Regina International Airport would be devastating, not only to the city of Regina but also to southern Saskatchewan. The Liberal government has made a great show out of allegedly providing $330 million in assistance to airports through lease deferrals, but here is what it's not telling people: Airport lease payments are already tied to revenue and have been for many years, so when an airport's revenue goes down to zero, its lease payments to the federal government go down to zero, pandemic or no pandemic. That means the government has done absolutely nothing to help Canada's airports. Will the government commit today to providing real assistance to Canada's struggling airports?",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Kram (ReginaWascana, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The Minister of Transport has been working very closely with airports, large and small, right across the country. We have continued to update our responses in this rapidly evolving situation. We've been in touch with each of the airports, and we've been working very hard to help them manage through these difficult times. We know that in some circumstances, continued operations at smaller airports have not been possible, but wherever possible we have done our very best to try to accommodate the very real financial challenges these airports are experiencing.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Canada's airports are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy and the Liberal government's response has been to defer their lease payments. These were already based on revenue, so these deferrals are effectively meaningless. In the meantime, the U.S. government's CARES program is providing $10 billion in grants and low-interest forgivable loans to support American airports. Will the government commit today to saving Canada's airports with a similar program of grants and forgivable loans?",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Kram"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have worked very hard, and continue to do so, to make sure we provide supports to regional airports right across this country. We know how important air transport is to such a vast country and we know the tremendous work they do. They support communities and the Canadian economy. We're going to work very closely with them to make sure we provide the right supports to help them get through this difficult time, because we know how important they will be to the eventual restart of our economy. Their continued existence and success are important to that restart, and we'll work with them.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the airport crisis goes far beyond my home city of Regina. Airports are vital to Canada's economy, providing over 200,000 jobs nationwide and paying $13 billion in wages and $7 billion in taxes. However, now Canada's airports are on the brink of collapse, and the government has stood idly by as airports have lost over 90% of their revenue. Last month Joyce Carter, chair of the Canadian Airports Council, called on the government for a three-point plan for airport recovery. It includes the permanent elimination of ground leases, substantive loan and bond guarantees and a special plan to support smaller airports that provide vital supplies to rural and remote communities. Could the minister inform the committee if the government has done anything in response to the Canadian Airports Council's request?",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Kram"
},
{
"content": "I would make the observation that all of our smaller regional airports are vital to the communities they serve. That's why it's important that we work with them all. The Minister of Transport is in regular communication and in ongoing discussions with airport authorities, large and small, right across this country on how we can continue to support them. There have been a number of proposals made by the industry itself and by some of the regional airports on what form that help can take. That's all part of a very important ongoing discussion. I believe it is clear that Canadians need our help, and we are there for Canadians to help them get back on their feet when we get through this pandemic.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Kram, we have time for a 15-second question and a 15-second answer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the United States, Australia, New Zealand and Japan have all started free trade negotiations with the United Kingdom. Why hasn't Canada?",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Kram"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank the honourable member for the question. We, of course, are going to make sure that we will always act in the interests of Canadian businesses, and I want to assure Canadians that CETA continues to apply to our trade with the United Kingdom. We will make sure that our further work will always take into account the interests of Canadian businesses.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng (MarkhamThornhill, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We now move to Mr.Therrien.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. I would like to know how many full-time and part-time employees are currently working for the Liberal Party of Canada.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Therrien (La Prairie, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "On a point of order, Mr.Chair. I am not sure that the number of employees at the Liberal Party, the Bloc Qubcois, or the Conservative Party is relevant to government management.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons)"
},
{
"content": "I am not sure whether that is a point of order, but I will let Mr.Therrien continue.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "If he stays with me, he will understand. He can trust me. I would like to know how many people work full time and part time for the Liberal Party of Canada. It is a simple question.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Therrien"
},
{
"content": "A number of people do. Some hon. members: Oh, oh!",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I know that they think its funny to pilfer taxpayers money from government coffers. But that is not our style. The Liberal Party took money through the emergency wage subsidy program. I would just like to know how many people work for the Liberal Party of Canada.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Therrien"
},
{
"content": "I do not know how many people work for the Liberal Party, but I can say that the emergency wage subsidy is for all sectors of the economy. That is how we can protect employees across the country who are working for businesses facing a reduction in revenue of 30% or more.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "They have 157MPs and they have known for two weeks that we are working on the wage subsidy. Not one member wondered how many people work for them. They are too busy helping themselves to the cookie jar. In an article in La Presse on May25, Liberal Party spokesman Braeden Caley said that between 75and 100employees were receiving wages subsidized through this program. Is that correct?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Therrien"
},
{
"content": "I am very focused on our concern, which is to protect Canadians across the country who are working for businesses facing a reduction in revenue of 30% or more. It is very important for them and for our economy.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Let's use a round number. Let's say 100employees. How many employees in the Liberal Party of Canada are threatened by the pandemic? You should know; it's your party.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Therrien"
},
{
"content": "I would like to remind honourable members to direct their questions through the Chair. The honourable minister has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. We stand by our approach of protecting employees across the country. We want to make sure that they have enough money to meet the challenges that they are facing during the pandemic.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "I would actually say that they want to have enough money for their next election campaign. I would like to know how much taxpayers' money has been taken from the emergency wage subsidy program and will be used as election loot for the Liberal Party of Canada. How much money have you taken from the program?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Therrien"
},
{
"content": "The emergency wage subsidy program allows us to protect 75% of the income that employees were earning before the crisis, to a maximum of $847. This is important for them and, of course, very important for our economy.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, since I am not getting an answer, let me share with you the very simple calculation I cobbled together. One hundred employees at $847 a week is $340,000a month. That is the amount of taxpayers' money that the Liberal Party is putting into its pockets. If we multiply that amount by threethat's three months, since it started on March15we get over $1million. That is the amount they will have put in their pockets, to be used as election loot for the Liberal Party. Given that the Liberals are extending the emergency wage subsidy, will their party continue to help itself to the money?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Therrien"
},
{
"content": "The purpose of the emergency wage subsidy is to protect employees. So every business must ensure that the money goes to the employees. That is very important. It is how employees and their incomes are protected. It will help millions of families across the country to be in a better situation.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Therrien, you can ask a question of no more than 15seconds.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "They have already taken $1million out of the register, so that is settled. My question is twofold. First, are they going to pay back that $1million? Second, I hope they will not be taking another $1million by September. Can I at least be reassured of that?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alain Therrien"
},
{
"content": "We will continue with our approach to protect employees and businesses needing it during the crisis.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "We will take a short break so that our employees can safely change places. We can now continue. We'll go now to Mr. Van Bynen.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time with the member for Scarborough Centre. Mr. Chair, as parliamentarians, our greatest responsibility is to keep Canadians safe. During the previous Parliament, our government made significant investments in the CBSA and the RCMP, and provided funds to provinces and territories to invest in programs that combat gun and gang violence and support our communities in providing positive alternatives for youth engagement and activities. On May 1, our government banned assault-style weapons. This is something that we pledged to do during the last federal election and something that victims' groups, law enforcement and everyday Canadians called on for decades, but we must know that we need to take more action to keep our communities safe. Mr. Chair, I'm sure that this continues to be an important issue for many communities. Can the minister tell the House and the constituents of NewmarketAurora what further steps our government will take to keep Canadians safe?",
"speaker": "Mr. Tony Van Bynen (NewmarketAurora, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'd like to begin by thanking the honourable member for NewmarketAurora for his question and for his advocacy on behalf of the safety of his community. Mr. Chair, building upon historic investments that we made in the last Parliament in law enforcement dealing with guns and gangs, we took the important next step in our promise to strengthen Canada's gun control by prohibiting weapons that many in the law enforcement community, including the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, have said have no place in our communities. There is much more to do. We will build on these early steps by strengthening our work and our laws at the border, by taking steps to prevent the theft and criminal diversion of guns and also by making significant investments in kids, families and communities where the conditions give rise to gun violence right across Canada. Mr. Chair, we have much work to do, and we are committed to keeping Canadians safe.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "The next question goes to Ms. Zahid.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, in cities and towns across Canada, small businesses are the backbones of our local economies. They are also pillars of our communities. Even during these challenging times, we have seen restaurants and other businesses step up to deliver meals to front-line workers and make donations to our local food banks. So many have supported Scarborough Health Network's meals on wheels program. Their leadership has been inspiring. I have heard from many small business owners in Scarborough, from dentists to small manufacturers, who are having trouble paying their commercial rents due to the sharp downturn in business caused by COVID-19. They are interested in how programs like the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program would help them to stay in business, but they worry that these programs may not be able to help if their landlords don't participate. These small businesses are crucial to our community. Could the Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade please explain why it is so important that the landlords participate to help small businesses make it through the pandemic and how we are working to make this program a success, not just here in Scarborough but across Canada?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank the member of Parliament for her advocacy for the people of Scarborough Centre on this really important question. While rent is an area of provincial responsibility, helping businesses across the country is all of our responsibility. This is why we have stepped up to provide rent relief to businesses while, at the same time, helping property owners maintain the rental income through this crisis. We are asking property owners to do their part in keeping small businesses and their employees to get through these challenging times, and to take advantage of our forgivable loans in order to help small businesses that are the hardest hit by reducing their rent by 75%. This is a win-win situation. Many landlords have already stepped up, and we salute their efforts. We will continue to do what we can to help protect and help our small businesses across Canada from coast to coast to coast.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "The next question goes to Ms. Kwan.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "The $4-billion Canada housing benefit agreement was announced in 2017. It's supposed to provide up to $2,500 per year to help families in need with their rent. We know that poverty and inadequate housing are barriers felt even more by black, indigenous and racialized people. Can the minister tell us how many families have actually received this housing support?",
"speaker": "Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank the honourable member for asking about this really special and unique housing benefit. We introduced the Canada housing benefit as part of the national housing strategy to help people as a bridge to permanent housing, people who are in core housing need, are homeless or at risk of homelessness. We have signed agreements with provinces. We hope all of them come to the table to sign this really important cost-sharing",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development)"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Ms. Kwan.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "It has been two and a half years, and families in need are still waiting. Only one province has signed on, and there has been no national consultation on how such a benefit program would even be implemented. With so little federal leadership, the Canadian Alliance of Non-Profit Housing Associations has stepped up and done the work for the government. They have outlined five key principles to guide the implementation of the Canada housing benefit. Will the minister adopt those principles and get on with ensuring vulnerable families get the rental assistance they need?",
"speaker": "Ms. Jenny Kwan"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it is really unfortunate that the honourable member thinks that an investment of $55 billion and the commitment of a 10-year federal plan of leadership in affordable housing and community housing is a lack of leadership. It is quite the opposite. The Canada housing benefit is yet another important segment of the national housing strategy, which will ensure people have access to a safe, affordable place to call home. It is being signed by a number of provinces, not just one as the honourable member suggests. There are up to five provinces that have moved on signing on to the Canada housing benefit.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Then surely the minister can actually tell us how many families benefited from that program. The fact is that two and a half million families are paying more than 30% of their income on rent, and they have been hit hard by this pandemic. Reciting the same message box over and over again will not get them the help they need. Aside from going forward with a housing benefit program, will the government prioritize affordable housing stimulus spending as a key component of any post-COVID stimulus policy?",
"speaker": "Ms. Jenny Kwan"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, joining with provinces and territories and providing real help to members of the community who are experiencing homelessness so they can have a permanent roof over their heads is real action. It's real leadership by our government as part of the Canada housing benefit. This is a real benefit that is going to households in core housing need, people who experience a core housing need and who need a permanent place to call home. The Canada housing benefit is providing real help to thousands and thousands of Canadian households. We will continue to provide that leadership in concert with provinces and territories.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Well, minister, I would say that B.C. is still looking for the government to step up. We bought our first hotel to house the homeless in permanent housing, and the government has yet to provide any funding to them. The next question is for the Minister of Immigration. The first migrant worker died yesterday due to COVID-19. Migrant workers are warehoused in a space with no barriers between each sleeping cot. Others are housed in crowded communal bunkhouses. What action will the minister take to address this alarming situation?",
"speaker": "Ms. Jenny Kwan"
},
{
"content": "I thank my colleague for the question, and I want to extend our sympathies regarding the temporary worker who passed away from COVID-19. Of course, we continue to support workers by ensuring that they have the accommodations and the spacing necessary to work when they are here providing food security for all Canadians. We're also providing support to farmers to ensure that those accommodations are made. We put in place the regulations and the rules that are necessary, and we continue to work very closely with our provincial partners as well as leaders in this sector so that we can protect workers and ensure that Canadians have access to safe and affordable food.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marco Mendicino (Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship)"
},
{
"content": "No one should have to endure such inhumane housing conditions and risk their lives to support their families. We rely on them to put food on the table for our families. They don't have access to health care and they don't have a pathway to permanent residence. Will the minister do the right thing and grant migrant workers health care coverage and ensure the government follows up on the principle that if you're good enough to work, you're good enough to stay?",
"speaker": "Ms. Jenny Kwan"
},
{
"content": "In fact, Mr. Chair, I would clarify that temporary foreign workers do have a pathway to permanent residence. Of course, that is an opportunity we will continue to offer those who are ensuring that Canadians have access to healthy, safe and affordable food. We will continue to make the investments that are necessary to maintain a high standard of professionalism and workplace safety.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marco Mendicino"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Arnold.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, fisheries and oceans stakeholders and coastal communities face unprecedented threats from the COVID-19 crisis, and they deserve the support of all levels of government, including their own MPs. Yesterday the Liberal and NDP MPs banded together to restrict the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans to just four hours of sitting in the summer months. Conservatives are ready to put in the hours to support Canadians, while the Liberals and NDP refuse to do the work. When will the Prime Minister tell his MPs to get back to work for the Canadians who need their support?",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold (North OkanaganShuswap, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we all agree that committees are doing extremely important work, and that's why committees are meeting regularly. I would like to remind my colleague that the committees are masters of their own destiny and make their own decisions, not the government.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it took months for DFO to realize that fish passage on the Fraser River was blocked at Big Bar. Then it took them seven more months to tender a contract to clear the blockage. Now that contract has tripled from $17.6 million to over $52.5 million without a single communications post from the minister's office. The original contract amount was clearly inadequate, so who ordered it?",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, since we found out about the landslide at Big Bar, our government has been extremely active in making sure that the salmon have a passage through. We know how critically important the salmon are to the Fraser River, as well as to the indigenous communities along the Fraser. We're working diligently to make sure that we get that passage cleared. So far, we've made significant progress, but we know there's more work that needs to be done. That's why we'll continue to work with indigenous communities and the province to make sure that these",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan (South ShoreSt. Margarets, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the fisheries minister's mandate letter from November of last year directed her to make new investments in fighting invasive species. Half a year later, the minister has failed to deliver. Canadians on the front line of prevention wrote the minister, and when they got a response five months later, it was devoid of any help. This government's delays are hurting Canada's fight against invasive species. When will the minister follow her Prime Minister's directive and make new investments in the fight against invasive species?",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank my hon. colleague for the question. Invasive species are a real challenge for our waterways. We know that a lot more has to be done. We're working diligently to find the answers to deal with some of the problems we are seeing from invasive species. We are continuing to monitor situations in waterways. I am committed to making sure that I meet my commitments within my mandate letter, and I will have more to say on that soon.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the list of hunting and sport shooting firearms banned by Minister Blair's order in council continues to grow. What other hunting firearms does he plan to ban?",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, to be very clear, the weapons we have prohibited are weapons that were not designed for hunting or sport shooting but for soldiers to use in combat. As law enforcement leaders right across the country have said many times, they have no place in our community, and we agree.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I continue to hear from constituents in the North OkanaganShuswap who are unable to access supports under the Canada emergency business account or the emergency commercial rent assistance program. Business owners have also lost employees and can't get them to come back to work because of the lack of flexibility in the emergency response benefit and the emergency student benefit. When the Liberals shut down Parliament, they removed our ability to amend legislation and fix their failures. When will the government fix these problems and the programs?",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we continue to look at the programs we've put out to support Canadians to make sure that they are actually having the desired impact. As we've moved along, we have said that we need to make amendments. We've committed to extending the wage subsidy, and of course we're looking at all the measures we've put out so we can ensure that people have the support they need during this crisis.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Viersen.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, an April 1 letter confirms that Deloitte Canada has been contracted to help supply PPE. Was this a sole-source contract?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the honourable member is correct that we have contracted with Deloitte to assist us with our operations on the ground in China in order to have an A-to-Z procurement approach to delivering goods",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand (Minister of Public Services and Procurement)"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Viersen.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Can the minister confirm that this was, indeed, a sole-source contract?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, there are a number of goods that need to be procured for Canadian health care professionals to be safe, and that's exactly",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to Mr. Viersen.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Yes or no, was this a sole-source contract?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I will take that question back to my department and come back to the member with a further, fuller response.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, is Deloitte of Canada able to speak on behalf of PSPC?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, not at all. The contracts that we are entering into are made by us",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Viersen.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "What is the value of the contract with Deloitte?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, again, that is information that we are not going to release at this time. When the time is right, we will do so.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Many of the suppliers that are in contact with Deloitte of Canada are indigenous contractors. Has the government secured any contracts with indigenous suppliers?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are in touch with indigenous suppliers, as we are with many suppliers across Canada and internationally. We are working hard to make sure that we have diverse supply chains across the board, and that means including indigenous suppliers in that mix.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Many of these indigenous suppliers have previously been vetted by the federal government and are certified vendors. Is it appropriate for Deloitte to be recertifying these vendors?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the honourable member appears to have information regarding Deloitte's certification processes, which would not be outside what the government itself is doing. I encourage him to come forward with a question that actually responds to fact before",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead, Mr. Viersen.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Does the minister think that re-vetting suppliers is a good use of resources?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'll tell you what I think. I believe that Canada is in a crisis, and I am making every effort to order PPE as Canadian health care workers require. Some hon. members: Hear, hear!",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, indigenous suppliers stand at the ready to supply PPE to Canada. Has the minister contracted with any indigenous suppliers?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are in touch with indigenous suppliers and will continue to ensure that Canada has a diverse supply chain in terms of manufacturers, in terms of products and in terms of countries. That is our commitment to Canadian health care workers",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Now we go back to Mr. Viersen.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Has the government signed a contract with a single indigenous supplier?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I would like to say that we are continuing to make sure that our supplier list is confidential, because we are in a crisis and we do not want to jeopardize The Chair: We go back to Mr. Viersen.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, on Friday the association for indigenous business could not name a single indigenous company that had been contracted. Have any of the contracts signed with the federal government between Deloitte Canada and PPE suppliers been filled?",
"speaker": "Mr. Arnold Viersen"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the member is mistaken. Deloitte is not signing contracts on behalf of the Government of Canada. Deloitte is assisting with and sourcing manufacturers, and all contracts are signed by the government with manufacturers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "We will now proceed with Mr.Paul-Hus.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we have difficulty understanding the government's management of the border. The order between Canada and the United States has an exception allowing refugee claimants to submit their claims in Canada if they have family here and we accept them. However, hundreds of Canadian-American couples cannot be reunited, which is a problem. I find it hard to believe that the minister cannot quickly instruct border services officers to allow spouses to enter the country right now.",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (CharlesbourgHaute-Saint-Charles, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I appreciate very much the member's intervention and the long list of people he sent to me. I'm also working with a number of different families. We remain committed to keeping families together. As I advised this House earlier, Mr. Chair, we're working diligently with our provincial and territorial partners to take the steps necessary to enable people to stay united as they cross the borders and enter into Canada, but to do so safely and not put other Canadians at risk.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, letting a spouse come home will not put Canadians at risk. A survey conducted in Canada reveals that a large majority of Canadians do not trust the Chinese communist regime at all and do not want Huawei in Canada. The good news today is that BCE and Telus have decided not to do business with Huawei. Now that the government no longer has to worry about BCE and Telus, can they say today that no other company is going to use Huawei and that Huawei will be banned from Canada for 5G?",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I thank my colleague for his question. Our government will always protect our networks and ensure that Canadians have access to the latest innovations in telecommunications. A review of 5G technologies and their economic and security considerations is currently under way. We will ensure that Canadians' security and personal information will never be compromised.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "Let me remind the minister that we have been working on this for years and that CSIS has confirmed that Huawei is unreliable as far as Canada's security is concerned. Right now, two Canadians are being unjustly detained by the Chinese communist regime. The same regime continues to lie to the world about COVID-19, block our exports, and terrorize the citizens of Hong Kong. When will the Prime Minister confirm that he is going to ban Huawei from developing 5G in Canada? It is a simple question.",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let's be very clear. Canadians deserve to have access to the most beneficial 5G technology. At the same time, the safety and security of Canada's digital environment will be of paramount consideration. We're doing the work required and we're not basing that agenda on some media report, but instead ensuring that all scientific and security factors are taken into account. We are engaged in robust discussions with our Five Eyes partners, including the United States, and all our security agencies. Mr. Chair, we'll do the work necessary to",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Paul-Hus has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "The minister does not need a sheet of paper, this matter has been clear for a long time. Everyone is saying that we need to ban Huawei from Canada. I have a quick question for the Minister of Finance. Bell and Telus had each estimated that removing Huawei from their development would cost $1billion. Today we have learned that these companies have decided not to use Huawei. Did the government decide to pay for this under wraps to get out of it? Having said that, my next question is more about the theft on May27. About 90,000surgical masks bound for the Quebec City UHC were stolen from the Toronto airport. As we all know, these masks are critical in the fight against COVID-19. Has the minister called for an investigation? When are we going to find out what happened to those stolen masks that were bound for Quebec?",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I will gladly look into this issue and get back to my colleague. Our procurements have reached 101 million surgical masks at this time, and they're being distributed to provinces, including Quebec.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Paul-Hus, you have time to ask a 15-second question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "It is a little strange. The masks were stolen in Toronto on May27. So they have been gone a long time. I just want to know if there is an investigation and if they will ever be found. I want to address another complex and important issue. A police officer from the Montreal area called me and told me about a current fraud. Some social assistance recipients learned about the CERB and applied for it. Building managers have received a lot of cheques addressed to social assistance recipients. They know it is not legal and it constitutes fraud. The police officer is asking me what to do with the cheques and to whom they should be sent. Should he give them to the fraudsters? How does that work?",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can assure the member that we have robust mechanisms in place to address CERB fraud. We understand that in delivering this benefit to a million Canadians to date, we had to put more of our integrity measures at the back, but make no mistake: Canadians who behave fraudulently will be held to account, and we will ensure that the money is either repaid or the cheques not cashed.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Moore.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, there remains a concern across Canada that delays in the criminal courts could result in criminals walking free. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court recently said in an interview that amendments to the Criminal Code could allow this backlog to be addressed. Can the minister outline what work has been done to address the backlog, and when we can expect to see it addressed?",
"speaker": "Hon. Rob Moore (Fundy Royal, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I thank the honourable member for his question. I can assure him that we are working closely with our provincial and territorial counterparts, who have the primary responsible for the superior courts of justice and therefore the criminal law in their various jurisdictions for the administration of justice in criminal law. I can also say that we have formed an action committee co-chaired by me and the Chief Justice of Canada, again with a variety of different kinds of representation on that committee, to look at the restart of the justice system",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Moore.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, weeks ago I raised these concerns with the minister over backlogs in the criminal courts and the risk they present to our justice system. The provinces have significant insight into how this can be addressed, and many provinces have been proactive with their court backlogs. Can the minister outline what work has been done with the provinces on this important issue?",
"speaker": "Hon. Rob Moore"
},
{
"content": "We are working with the provinces. There are different practices in each province. We're working to serve in a coordinating role as a repository of information for best practices so that they can be shared across provinces. We're also looking at specific suggestions that provinces have made with respect to reforming the criminal law.",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti"
},
{
"content": "Many owners of small businesses in my riding, and indeed in all of our ridings, are suffering right now and have received absolutely no help from this government because of technicalities. Two weeks ago, the Prime Minister indicated the government was looking to expand access to the Canada emergency business account to include to those who operate their businesses out of a personal bank account. This is something that we've been calling for over the past several weeks, and businesses cannot wait any longer. Can the minister tell me what we should be telling our constituents about those who are caught up based on a technicality and are not able to access this important measure?",
"speaker": "Hon. Rob Moore"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the honourable member for that really important question. I want to assure the small business owners in his community and all across the country just how important they are and how difficult a time this is for them. We absolutely understand. We are hearing you and we are working as hard and as fast as we can to make sure that those business owners get access to this very important support. I would like to highlight, though, that owners of 650,000 small businesses across the country are getting the loan support. Of course, there is more to do, and we will keep working hard for those business owners.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "The lack of access to high-speed Internet remains a major issue across my home province of New Brunswick. This is a significant barrier to rural economic development. It impacts the quality of life of rural constituents. The lack of progress and transparency on rural Internet is frustrating for residents, for municipal leaders and for small business owners who are already suffering due to COVID. When will a new plan for rural Internet be introduced, and how quickly can we expect it to be deployed?",
"speaker": "Hon. Rob Moore"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our government has a plan to connect Canadians to high-speed Internet. To date, we've set aside investments to connect a million households, and there's more work to be done. We will be announcing our next steps to connect more Canadians through the universal broadband funds in the days to come. I look forward to communities across the country benefiting from federal investments and the private investments that our investments will bring.",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "On the issue of commercial rent, how is the government going to ensure that business owners whose landlords still refuse to participate in the government's program receive the support that they need to stay open at this time?",
"speaker": "Hon. Rob Moore"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as the member knows and would understand, rent between small business owners and landlords is a provincial jurisdiction. That said, we've moved forward to try to ensure that there's a process so that those landlords and the commercial tenants can work together to come up with a solution that will work for both. We're seeing landlords",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Ms. Atwin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Nicholas Gibbs, Colten Boushie, Tina Fontaine, Alain Magloire and Breonna Taylor were not all born on the same side of the border, but they all lost their lives at the hand of the same cruel enemy: racism. We cannot, here in Canada, think higher of ourselves when we are reading the headlines of our neighbour. We cannot ignore our history, past or present. The final report from the national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls stated that indigenous women and girls have faced a Canadian genocide. In 2018 a report revealed that a black person was almost 20 times more likely than a white person to be fatally shot by the Toronto police, and a 2019 report exposed systemic bias among the Montreal police force against black and indigenous people. Black lives matter. Indigenous lives matter. I am asking the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, as per her mandate, what exactly our government intends to do now to fight racism among its institutions. If the anti-racism secretariat has in fact been established, what priorities have been actioned?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Fredericton, GP)"
},
{
"content": "I would like to thank the member for that very important question. I will state that it is essential that we all work together, not only during this challenging time but during the times that come out of it. On the comments that were shared earlier, this is another life lost that should not have been lost. Yes, the anti-racism secretariat has been established. This is a resource not only for Canadians but also for government agencies to better the way in which we do work internally as well, including advancement opportunities. We know that the decision-making table does not reflect the diversity of our country. That's exactly why we came out with an open, transparent, merit-based appointment process: so that we can see the country's diversity reflected at the decision-making table. There is a lot more work to do. I can assure the member and all Canadians that my eyes are open, my ears are open and I am an ally. I will work as hard as possible to be that voice at the cabinet table. I cannot experience what it is to be a black Canadian, but I can tell you that your voices will be represented and they will be heard. I see you.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bardish Chagger (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it has been four years since the settlement payment for sixties scoop survivors was approved. That resolution hasn't taken place. The pain continues. Why is it that the 12,500 class members who have been determined eligible still haven't received the payments they are owed? These people deserve justice without any delay, especially in light of COVID-19 and the added pressures facing communities. Can the minister confirm exactly when these survivors will receive the interim payment?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Jenica Atwin"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. Thank you for your advocacy on all these truly important things. As you know, because of the exceptional circumstance of COVID-19, the class counsel, with the support of Canada, was seeking direction from the courts to issue partial payments to the class members with a valid claim. On June 1 the Federal Court granted that order. A similar motion is before the Ontario Superior Court. Once granted, eligible class members can expect to receive partial payments of $21,000 over the coming weeks. Canada welcomes the Federal Court's",
"speaker": "Hon. Carolyn Bennett"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go back to Ms. Atwin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Eighty per cent of people who are diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or ALS, will die within two to five years of receiving the diagnosis. The pandemic has made it more difficult than ever for these people to access medical appointments and treatment. They do not have the luxury of time. They want to live and to share moments with their families and their loved ones. The lack of urgency to approve new trials and therapies in Canada directly impacts the life expectancy of people with ALS. Can the Minister of Health commit to taking leadership on this file, removing the barriers to accessing these promising treatments and therapies, and ensuring that the costs of these treatments will be covered?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Jenica Atwin"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much for the very important question. We know that people living with ALS and their families struggle immensely every single day. Of course the member opposite has my commitment to work with the community and with manufacturers of drugs that are promising for ALS to expedite approval in a safe way that protects the health of Canadians but also provides treatment in an affordable way for all Canadians.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Green.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can't breathe and I'm tired, and today we've heard a lot of progressive words from the Prime Minister, but he hasn't really said anything. If the Prime Minister will not provide leadership in this House, will anybody from his cabinet here today commit to taking concrete steps to address anti-black racism?",
"speaker": "Mr. Matthew Green (Hamilton Centre, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, yes, we do commit. That's exactly why we will listen more. We will acknowledge that racism is alive in Canada. We know we must do better. However, I also need the member to recognize that this work has started. The open, transparent, merit-based appointment process is resulting in the decision-making table better reflecting Canadians. We recognize the UN international",
"speaker": "Hon. Bardish Chagger"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Green.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, will the member then commit today to make it a legal requirement to collect race-based data across all the ministries?",
"speaker": "Mr. Matthew Green"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the recently announced immunity task force is providing disaggregated data to decision-makers, because decisions need to be based on science and evidence. Yes, I will work across all departments to ensure that data is better collected.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bardish Chagger"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, that's not a legal requirement. It is also not lost on the black community that the former Toronto chief of police, the architect of this country's largest profiling program under the guise of street checks or carding, was made this country's Minister of Public Safety by this Prime Minister. As the tragic consequence of the unlawful, unconstitutional and racist practices in Toronto, black people are 20 times more likely than non-black people to be murdered by police. Does the Minister of Public Safety now admit that the police practice of street checks and carding is in fact a significant factor in Canada's systemic anti-black and anti-indigenous racism, and will he act to immediately end it today?",
"speaker": "Mr. Matthew Green"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let me be very clear. First of all, every Canadian is entitled to bias-free and culturally competent policing. I know from experience that there is nothing more corrosive to the relationship of trust that must exist between the police and racialized communities than the issue of racism or the biased influences of those decisions. Mr. Chair, racial profiling is not only abhorrent and unacceptable, it's in fact unlawful. It's contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and it's contrary to the Canadian Human Rights Act. We are working diligently within all of the federal agencies under my purview to ensure that all officers receive training on culturally competent and bias-free delivery of service. We remain committed to creating a diverse workforce that truly reflects and respects the diverse people of this country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Nobody knows better through experience about the corrosive practice of street checks than I do. Will the minister now apologize to the black community for the harm caused under his tenure as chief of police?",
"speaker": "Mr. Matthew Green"
},
{
"content": "Just to be very clear, Mr. Chair, I actually worked with the diverse communities of Toronto for nearly four decades. I worked with extraordinary leaders from the black community and I learned extensively from their lived experience. We worked tirelessly to ensure the safety of all of the people in all of our diverse communities.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Bill C-51 was introduced by the Conservatives and supported by the Liberals, including this Prime Minister. It declared indigenous, racial, economic justice, and environmental activists as domestic terrorists. Each province was mandated to enact anti-terrorism protocols, which became a direction for the local police to engage in the practice of street checks or racial profiling. Given what he has said today in the House, will this Minister of Public Safety work to repeal the changes made under Bill C-51?",
"speaker": "Mr. Matthew Green"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I will repeat for the member opposite that racial profiling and bias in the delivery of policing service is not only unacceptable and abhorrent but unlawful. It's contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms; it is contrary to the Canadian Human Rights Act. It cannot ever be tolerated in policing in any place in Canada, but we learned from the lived experience of black and indigenous communities, who tell us that this is still their lived experience, so there is a great deal of work left to do.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "It is now Mr.Champoux's turn. Mr.Champoux, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I will be sharing my time with the honourable member for Joliette. Supplementary unemployment benefits, or SUBs, give employers the opportunity to enhance their employees' employment insurance benefits when they need to temporarily lay them off. A number of companies, including Soprema in Drummond, have done so with the guarantee that the government would maintain the SUB terms when employment insurance is converted to the CERB. However, surprise, surprise, when the employees applied for the CERB in May, they found that they did not meet the criteria because the amount of SUBs they have received exceeded $1,000, the CERB income limit. In addition, they must reimburse the CERB because they found that they were not eligible for it. So, what does the Minister of Finance intend to do to correct his error?",
"speaker": "Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We will pause for a second. We have a point of order on the floor. Go ahead, Mr. Green.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I posed the most important question. I had 10 seconds left by my count on my time before I was cut off, and I would appreciate, given the seriousness of the conversation here today, if the honourable Minister of Public Safety will please answer the question: Will he apologize to the black community for the irreparable harm that was caused by the racist process of street checks and carding?",
"speaker": "Mr. Matthew Green"
},
{
"content": "The way I work it is that if there are 15 seconds or less, we go on to the next one, because it's not really enough time to ask a question and get an answer. I will move on to Mr. Champoux. He did ask a question, and we'll let Ms. Qualtrough, the honourable minister, answer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, SUB plans that existed prior to March 15 are very much alive and in place for companies, employers and their employees. The CERB allows employers to top up an employee's wages to the maximum of a $1,000. As was said, Mr. Chair, in order to deliver this important critical benefit to Canadians, we had to go outside of the EI system. That decision was made, and as a result, eight million Canadians are being helped.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, SUBs do not have an employment insurance cap. Employers can contribute as much as they want, and they were assured that this would be the case with the CERB. Otherwise, they would have opted for another program. Let me put my question to the Minister of Finance again, in the hope that he will be the one to answer it. When does he intend to fix this error?",
"speaker": "Mr. Martin Champoux"
},
{
"content": "I thank the member for his question, Mr. Chair. As we can all appreciate, delivering a benefit of this magnitude as quickly as possible to as many Canadians as possible, both those who were EI eligible and those who were outside of EI, resulted in our having to take some decisions to streamline processes and the system. SUB plans are available for employers",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Ste-Marie, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I will continue on the subject of supplementary unemployment benefits. Let me remind everyone that Service Canada has entered into agreements with companies and is not honouring them. The victims are thousands and thousands of workers who have to reimburse the Canada emergency response benefit, as my colleague just explained. I also have the question my colleague from Drummond asked: why is the government not doing the same thing it does with employment insurance and not counting the benefits paid out as part of earned income? It is simple.",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as legislated, we needed to set up a straightforward, simple benefit to deliver to as many people as possible. The nuance and sophistication of the EI system was not available to us. As a result, as I said, eight million Canadians are getting the CERB. Service Canada is working with each and every employee who is in a repayment situation. We do not want to put anybody in a more difficult situation.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the truth is that the government has forgotten the thousands of workers covered under a supplementary unemployment benefit agreement. We are talking about mothers and fathers. When the government rolled out its Canada emergency response benefit, it was overwhelmed and it forgot about them. The government can fix it right here, right now. Does it want to do that?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let me clarify that employees who were covered by a SUB plan prior to March 15 are indeed covered by that plan. We're working with employers to make sure that their workers have this benefit, regardless of whether or not the CERB is in place. Those who accessed EI after March 15 have been streamlined into the CERB process, and their employers can help them with up to $1,000 a month.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we really do not have the same information. Agreements were signed before March15 for subsequent periods, but there was an agreement with Service Canada. Companies have tried to contact Service Canada by telephone, but no one is answering. They have tried by email, but no one is replying either. The companies have decided to honour their part of the contract and pay out the SUB. However, the government says that, after the fact, it changed the rules that had previously applied, and it is no longer honouring its agreement. As I understand it, the government does not want to straighten out the situation, and that is unacceptable.",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to reassure the honourable member that we have moved quickly to deal with the unprecedented volumes at Service Canada. We have set up a 1,500-agent call centre to help people through the CERB, as well as redeploying 3,000 additional staff to make sure that people are helped through the EI process.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Now we'll go to the next question, which is from Mr. Redekopp.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. As of December 31, 2019, the total number of pending veterans' disability benefits applications had already grown to over 46,000. These are the most recent public figures. What is the current total number of pending veterans' disability benefits applications before Veterans Affairs?",
"speaker": "Mr. Brad Redekopp (Saskatoon West, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I am sorry, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I thank my honourable colleague for the question and for giving me the opportunity to respond to the Parliament of Canada from my home in Midgell. As I indicated earlier in the House of Commons, I can assure the member that one of my major priorities is to make sure that we deal with the backlog and that the veterans of Canada receive the benefits they truly deserve and need.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Veterans Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "Those 46,000 applications from December of 2019 represent over 30,000 individual veterans. These are men and women who are suffering. How many individual veterans are currently caught in the backlog?",
"speaker": "Mr. Brad Redekopp"
},
{
"content": "I again thank my colleague. The fact is that service delivery and providing support to our veterans are of course my top priorities. As you understand, with this pandemic there are some difficulties, but we are processing the same number of decisions daily. Our",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Redekopp.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "On March 10, we learned that the average time that a veteran was waiting to have their disability benefit application processed had grown to 32 weeks. What is the current average time a veteran is waiting to have their disability benefit application processed?",
"speaker": "Mr. Brad Redekopp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I indicated, what we're doing is working to make sure that we streamline the process, make sure that some of the applications can be done automatically. Some cannot, because we have to make sure that what's provided to the veteran is adequate for the disability they",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Redekopp.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "It seems as though having numbers is a difficult challenge for this government. On March 10, the deputy minister of Veterans Affairs committed to providing the veterans affairs committee with an updated, written plan on how the department will resolve this backlog. This plan was to include timelines. When will the veterans affairs committee be provided with this plan?",
"speaker": "Mr. Brad Redekopp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can assure my honourable colleague that of course the veterans affairs committee does vitally important work. I know how important this piece of information is for them. My department is now working to make sure that the report itself reflects the reality we now face with the situation in the country. I can assure my honourable colleague",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to Mr. Redekopp.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm sure that the department had a draft plan prior to COVID-19, so I wonder if Mr. MacAulay can provide the committee with that plan right now, rather than wait.",
"speaker": "Mr. Brad Redekopp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can assure my honourable colleague that we are working diligently to make sure that this report is prepared, and prepared properly, for the committee. As I said before, I fully understand the importance of the committee and the great work it does",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Redekopp.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Can the minister give us a timeline of when this report will be given to the committee?",
"speaker": "Mr. Brad Redekopp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's difficult to give a timeline. I want to make sure that the report itself reflects the reality of the situation to make sure that the committee",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Redekopp.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "The minister's mandate letter instructed Mr. MacAulay to implement a system of automatic approval for the most common disability applications. When will this system be implemented?",
"speaker": "Mr. Brad Redekopp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, of course this all ties in to the report that the veterans affairs committee is waiting for and to make sure that we're in place in order to make sure that the automatic approval can work and to make sure that veterans receive the proper",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Redekopp.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "If automatic approval is implemented, does the minister know how many applications this measure will remove from the backlog?",
"speaker": "Mr. Brad Redekopp"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it will remove a number from the backlog, because quite simply, if you're skydiving out of a plane, you're going to have knee problems, and if you're a gunner, you're going to have ear problems. These things should be done automatically, and that's exactly what we're working on. As I said before, other things are complicated. To make sure that the veteran receives the appropriate remuneration",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "Unfortunately, that's all the time we have for today. The committee stands adjourned until tomorrow at noon.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
}
] |
covid_10 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"19"
]
],
"topic": "Introduction of petitions and prioritization of governmental matters"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"21",
"57"
],
[
"113",
"119"
],
[
"191",
"217"
]
],
"topic": "Financial assistance for vulnerable Canadians during the pandemic and beyond"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"57",
"77"
],
[
"94",
"97"
],
[
"121",
"181"
],
[
"219",
"237"
]
],
"topic": "Restoring Canadian businesses during the pandemic"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting of the standing committee took place to discuss matters pertinent to the Coronavirus pandemic. The main issue at stake was to ensure that the government was doing everything in its power to assist vulnerable Canadians during the pandemic, as well as to help reopen the economy. While many discussions focused on temporary assistance that the government could provide during the pandemic, like a $25 weekly bump in old-age security, some discussions talked about the intersection of these programs with general social welfare initiatives, like reducing homelessness and poverty. Canada's agricultural and fishing economy was highlighted as one of the industries in the greatest need for stimulus. Conservative ministers tried to bring attention to the government's recent gun control laws.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The Chair brought the meeting to order, announcing that the purpose of the meeting was to discuss COVID-19 's impact on Canada. Five petitions were presented: to recognize indeginous languages as official languages of Canada, to improve the organ donation system, to push for a made-in-Canada green economy, to decriminalize drug possession to improve public health, and to protect firearm ownership of law-abiding firearm owners. Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus suggested that the government should not try to pass gun-control legislation or release prisoners during the pandemic. The Prime Minister disagreed, claiming that both passing gun-control and releasing imprisoned Canadians who did not pose a threat to society advanced the safety of Canadians.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about introduction of petitions and prioritization of government matters.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"19"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Mr. Paul-Hus thought that the government should not take firearms away from law-abiding Canadian citizens. He inquired into how the government would take guns from criminals. He also expressed concern about the quick release of dangerous criminals during the pandemic and China's intransparency with regards to the pandemic.",
"query": "What did Paul-Hus think about the introduction of petitions and prioritization of government matters?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"9",
"18"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Prime Minister disagreed with Mr. Paul-Hus. He expressed that he had a mandate from the last election campaign to ban military-style assault weapons, and expressed disappointment about Conservatives' not wanting to do the same. He also claimed that speedy releases of inmates were governed by strict rules and were important to ensure that correctional services were protected from the virus.",
"query": "Did the Prime Minister agree with Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus when talking about introduction of petitions and prioritization of government matters?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"9",
"15"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Members expressed concern that pandemic related restrictions were harming businesses and that the government was not reopening businesses and providing stimulus in an effective fashion. Emphasis was placed on reopening fishing, restoring agricultural supply chains, and supporting farmers. Many members inquired as to why the government had only furnished $252 million of the promised $2.6 billion fund to maintain food security in Canada.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about restoring Canadian businesses during the pandemic.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"57",
"77"
],
[
"94",
"97"
],
[
"121",
"181"
],
[
"219",
"237"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Ms. McPherson wanted to know how the government will respond to outbreaks in meat-packing plants since workers' pleas to place effective safety protocols have been fruitless. She further inquired if the federal government would provide financial support to the workers if they declined to work under unsafe conditions, and, if it comes to it, shut down the plants. She finally wanted to know if the Cargill business, which uses Luxembourg as a tax haven, was the recipient of pandemic relief funds.",
"query": "What did Heather McPherson think about restoring Canadian businesses during the pandemic?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"141",
"144"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland was thankful for the farmers who worked hard to feed the country and was pleased that partisanship had been pushed aside to fight the coronavirus. She stood by the idea that no Canadian should have to work in an unsafe environment and put her trust in the Food Inspection Agency to regulate working conditions.",
"query": "What did Chrystia Freeland think about restoring Canadian businesses during the pandemic?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"133",
"143"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "I call the meeting to order. Welcome to the third meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, April20, the committee is meeting for the purposes of considering ministerial announcements, allowing members to present petitions, and questioning ministers of the crown, including the Prime Minister, in respect of the COVID-19 pandemic. I understand there's an agreement to observe a moment of silence in memory of the six members of the Canadian Armed Forces who lost their lives last Wednesday in a helicopter crash off the coast of Greece. We'll return to order. Colleagues, we meet today to continue our discussion about how our country is dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic. As we do, Canadians, like everyone around the world, are doing their best to live their lives until things improve. Meanwhile, as we look towards the future, I believe that it is also important to remember our past and to continue to mark the important moments in our shared history. At this very moment, the Dominion Carillonneur, Dr. Andrea McCrady, is performing a special recital to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the liberation of the Netherlands by the Canadian Forces. In May 1945, Canadian Forces played a major role in liberating the Dutch people from Nazi occupation. May 5 is now a national holiday in the Netherlands that commemorates the event and the great friendship that now exists between our two countries. Today's meeting is taking place by video conference. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Please be aware that the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee. Let me remind you that, as in the House or in committee, members may not take photographs of their colleagues or film the proceedings. In order to facilitate the work of our interpreters and ensure orderly meetings, I will outline a few rules. Interpretation of this video conference will be done as it is at normal committee meetings and in the House. At the bottom of your screen, you can choose floor, English or French. As you have seen, I change as I am speaking. I have now switched over to English in order to speak English. If you look at the bottom, you have a little flag that indicates whether it's English or French, and that's how we will be speaking. It makes it easier. That was where we had a little bit of a glitch in the last session. I understand that there are no statements by ministers. We can now proceed to presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that petitions presented during a meeting of the special committee must already have been certified by the clerk of petitions. In addition, to ensure that the petition is considered to have been properly presented, the certificate of the petition and each page of the petition for petitions certified in a previous Parliament should be emailed to the committee no later than 6 p.m. on the day before the committee. I thank all the members for their usual co-operation. Thank you all. Now we'll proceed to presenting petitions. Our first petition comes from the honourable member for Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, Mr. Genuis.",
"speaker": "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.))"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm pleased to be presenting two petitions today. The first petition is with respect to government Bill C-7. Petitioners raised concerns that this bill removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime. It includes removing the mandatory 10-day reflection period and the number of required witnesses who will witness a person's consent. The petitioners urge the House of Commons to immediately discontinue the removal of safeguards for people requesting euthanasia, and to put in place additional measures to protect vulnerable people. This would require that bill to be amended or not passed. The second petition is with respect to Senate public bill S-204. This is on organ harvesting and trafficking. Petitioners call on members of the House, and hopefully the Senate as well, to support Bill S-204, which would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ for which there has not been consent. It would also create provisions under which a person could be made inadmissible to Canada if they had been involved in organ harvesting or trafficking. Thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I want to remind all the members that there are specific headsets that have been mandated to all of us. If you don't have one, please talk to your IT ambassador and they will get one to you as quickly as possible. The reason for them is not so much for what you hear, but that our interpreters are working and there are work conditions that really make it difficult. Part of that is not having the appropriate boom on your headset, which will make it very difficult for them to hear and interpret for our members. Now we go to the member for BeachesEast York, Mr. Erskine-Smith.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I had to learn how to tie my tie all over again. It's been so long. I want to thank Jenna Robar, who's led this petition e-2453. The petitioners have noted that there are approximately 60 indigenous languages in Canada and that 2019, last year, was declared by the UN to be the year of indigenous languages. They draw attention to article 13 of the UNDRIP and to the TRC's calls to action numbers 13 to 16. Fundamentally, they call upon the Government of Canada to recognize indigenous languages as being official languages of Canada and to have each language recognized nationally, with implementations on regional and provincial levels, acknowledging that many regions have different languages.",
"speaker": "Mr. Nathaniel Erskine-Smith (BeachesEast York, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I am proud to present a petition on behalf of one of my constituents, Myles Lynch of St. Andrews West in my riding. Myles made history as the first Canadian ever to survive three double-lung transplants. Myles lives with cystic fibrosis and has had three lung transplants in the last five years, and he's only 22 years old. Myles created a documentary called 8 Thousand Myles, which had a few showings in my riding. It documented his journey across Canada. One thing Myles has been advocating for is the creation of a national opt-out program for organ donation. Myles asked me how he could help raise awareness of that issue. I mentioned to him e-petitions online and getting people across the country to sign them. I am proud to have this certified today, with 1,318 signatures, asking the Standing Committee on Health to launch a study into the feasibility of the creation of a national opt-out program. I give kudos to Myles not only for his strength personally but also for his advocacy for others and for saving lives in our country by advocating for a better and an improved organ donation system. Kudos to Myles. I'm proud to present this petition today.",
"speaker": "Mr. Eric Duncan (StormontDundasSouth Glengarry, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm very pleased to present this certified petition on behalf of several dozen residents of Toronto, Mississauga and Brampton, Ontario, who add their voices to those of the thousands upon thousands of Canadians who have signed similar petitions. Given that Canadians are living through unprecedented, catastrophic climate events, and at the same time our society, as you know, is suffering from worsening social and economic inequalitieshalf of Canadian families are only $200 away from insolvency in any given monthand particularly given the pandemic that we are currently experiencing, these petitioners are calling on the Government of Canada to support motion M-1, a made-in-Canada green new deal that I am presenting in front of the House of Commons. It calls on Canada to take bold and rapid action to tackle the climate emergency, and to put in place a shift to a clean and renewable energy economy.",
"speaker": "Mr. Peter Julian (New WestminsterBurnaby, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's an honour to table a petition on behalf of constituents from CourtenayAlberni. They are concerned, obviously, about fentanyl-related deaths. Over 12,000 Canadians have died over the last four years due to fentanyl-poisoned sources. They cite that the current war on drugs has been costly and grossly ineffective; that it has resulted in widespread stigma towards addiction and against those who use illicit drugs; and that criminalization of particular substances has resulted in the establishment of a drug trade that now trafficks dangerous and lethal products such as fentanyl. They are citing that regulating to ensure safe sources, with proper measures and bylaws, will reduce the criminal element associated with street drugs. Problematic substance use is a health issue and is not resolved through criminalization of personal possession and consumption. They are calling on the Government of Canada to declare the current opioid overdose and fenanyl poisoning crisis a national public health emergency under the Emergencies Act. They are calling for the government to reform current drug policy to decriminalize personal possession, as has been done in Portugal and other countries, and to create with urgency and immediacy a system to provide safe and unadulterated access to substances so that people who use substances experimentally, recreationally or chronically are not at imminent risk of overdose due to a contaminated source.",
"speaker": "Mr. Gord Johns (CourtenayAlberni, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm presenting a petition today that contains the concerns of Canadians in my riding with the government's approach to firearms legislation and regulation. The petition highlights that the Liberal government's December 5, 2019, Speech from the Throne contains numerous inaccuracies about current firearms legislation and regulation; that the term military-style assault rifles is a political phrase undefined in Canadian law; that municipalities are constitutionally unable to enact criminal law to ban handguns in their jurisdictions; that the experts, including chiefs of police, agree that banning firearms and requiring law-abiding gun owners to follow more unnecessary red tape will not increase public safety; that the majority of guns used in violent crimes are smuggled into Canada from the United States; and that the Liberal government continues to target law-abiding firearms owners instead of the gangs, drug traffickers and illegal gun traffickers responsible for violence in our communities. The petitioners in MissionMatsquiFraser Canyon are calling on the government to stop targeting law-abiding firearms owners; to cancel all plans to confiscate firearms legally owned by federally licensed, RCMP-vetted Canadians; and to focus our limited resources on anti-gang enforcement, on reducing the involvement of at-risk youth and gangs, on mental health and on providing the Canada Border Services Agency with the tools they need to do their job effectively.",
"speaker": "Mr. Brad Vis (MissionMatsquiFraser Canyon, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Very good. That's all for petitions today. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. I would like to remind honourable members that no member shall be recognized for more than five minutes at a time and that members may split their time with one or more members by so indicating to the chair. Ministers responding to the question should do so by simply turning on their mike and speaking. I want to again remind honourable members to use the boom on the official headsets so that everything runs smoothly, not only for ourselves but also for the interpreters. We start the question period with Mr.Paul-Hus.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. Although we are right in the middle of a pandemic and the government has agreed to set aside all parliamentary business in order to concentrate solely on eliminating the virus in Canada and its impacts, the Prime Minister is deceiving Canadians by introducing measures to punish law-abiding firearm owners. Why?",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (CharlesbourgHaute-Saint-Charles, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I feel that all Canadians were affected by the massacre in Nova Scotia. Once again, too many families are facing tragedy and tremendous grief. During the last election campaign, we promised to ban military-style assault weapons, and that is exactly what we have done. We will be working with members from all parties in order to continue strengthening gun control. It is a shame that, once more, the Conservatives do not want to strengthen gun control in the country.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I understand the Prime Minister's reply. However, I would like to know whether he considers that, with this order in council, organized crime, street gangs and other criminals are simply going to turn in their weapons.",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
{
"content": "This is indeed only a first step, but it is an important one. We are doing other things to eliminate or restrict handguns in our municipalities, to strengthen the control at our borders, and to implement other measures. I am pleased to hear the hon. member speak of those measures, because we are going to work together in the House to strengthen gun control. I hope that the Conservative Party will be part of that discussion in a positive way, in order to keep Canadians safe.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I can simply say to the Prime Minister that the Conservative Party has always been committed to battling criminals, not law-abiding citizens. Speaking of criminals, we know that, even before the pandemic, the Prime Minister had asked the Parole Board of Canada to release prisoners more easily and more quickly. Now we are learning that, because of the pandemic, some releases are happening very quickly. The Minister of Public Safety told us that the people were approaching the end of their sentences or were older, but we are learning in the media that some dangerous criminals are being released. Can the Prime Minister give us an explanation?",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
{
"content": "The protection, the safety and the health of all Canadians are important for the government. This is why we have taken additional measures in our correctional services to ensure that guards and inmates are protected. We have indeed opened the doors to some more speedy releases, but only in very specific cases that present little or no danger for Canadians. We have managed to find the right balance. We must protect Canadians and we must also ensure that they are safe. Those two things go hand-in-hand.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "So is the Prime Minister confirming to us that no dangerous criminals have been precipitously released so that they do not have to experience COVID-19 within the walls?",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
{
"content": "There are very strict rules and principles to ensure that people posing a threat to society are not released.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Paul-Hus, you have one minute left.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. The Chinese government has not been transparent with the rest of the world about the coronavirus. Australia asked for an in-depth investigation, but has received threats from the communist regime. Is Canada going to stand by its allies in the Five Eyes and demand that the Chinese government be completely transparent?",
"speaker": "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus"
},
{
"content": "We continue to stand in solidarity with our allies, including the Five Eyes, as they have stood in solidarity with Canada in terms of the two Canadians who have been unjustly detained for a long time in China. In the coming months and years, we expect to obtain answers to all our questions about the origin of this pandemic, including questions that are important for China. At the same time, we are going to work hard to ensure that all Canadians have the equipment and the protection they need to get through this pandemic.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We now move to Mr.Blanchet.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. I am sorry that I do not have my official headset. I was elsewhere, and I did not bring it with me. I hope that you can still hear me properly. For some days, discussions have been going on between people from the Bloc Qubcois and people from the government with a view to collaboratively coming up with a proposal for seniors in Quebec and Canada. The gist of our proposal is to temporarily increase the old age security by about $25per week, or $110per month. By the way, I hate the term \"old age security. I prefer \"senior security. The discussion has been going on for some time and it's a proposal that we made in the election campaign. We are asking for it to be done at this point, at least temporarily. Parliament stopped sitting in the middle of March. We are now in May, and seniors still have nothing. They are impatient themselves, and we spend a good part of our days answering them. Given that impatience, I realized I should not be the one answering them, it should be the Prime Minister. So here is my question for the Prime Minister: what are you doing to seek a solution that will increase the purchasing power of seniors in Quebec and Canada in the very short term?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Clearly, seniors need support and significant services from us because of COVID-19. Our priority was to implement income replacement benefits for workers who have lost their jobs because of COVID-19. Then we announced different measures, including measures for seniors. The most vulnerable seniors are going to receive reimbursement of the GST, which will help them very quickly. We have also reduced by 25% the minimum amount that must be withdrawn from registered retirement income funds. We have also channelled $9million through the United Way, to help the most vulnerable seniors. Absolutely, I recognize that more must be done. I am very pleased that we have been able to work with other parliamentarians, including those in the Bloc Qubcois, to hear these concerns and to find the best way to help seniors in the short term. In terms of the pandemic, they have concerns about their physical security, but also about their financial security. We will have more to say about this soon.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "In the last few hours, the Prime Minister has indicated that he could need the cooperation of other parties, including the Bloc Qubcois, on a completely different matter. We are very open to that discussion, but we want the same openness when we are asking for something to serve the people of Quebec. The cost of a basket of groceries has increased for seniors, as it has for everyone else. It's true for all seniors over 65years old, of course. The current old age pension represents less than half of the Canada emergency student benefit. It represents less than one third of the basic Canada emergency response benefit. Seniors in my constituency, as in any other of the 338constituencies, are asking what we are doing. They are asking how there can be nothing for them. When will there be something for them? I want to be able to give them an answer of some kind. What is the Prime Minister's answer? I will repeat it to them.",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "There will be announcements in the coming days on the way in which we will be able to help seniors, particularly the most vulnerable seniors. We recognize that the cost of a basket of groceries is increasing for everyone. That is why we have to do better for our seniors. There are horror stories, whether about the CHSLDs, or about our most vulnerable seniors across the country. Far too many families are experiencing tremendous grief. There are seniors who are alone, seniors who are afraid of falling ill without ever seeing their grandchildren or their children again. We have to be there for those who belong to that great generation that fought for us during the second world war. Now we have to fight for them in their homes. That is exactly what we are going to do.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to the next question. Ms. Collins.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, every day I hear from people who are struggling to pay their bills and to keep a roof over their head. Instead of making sure that Canadians get the help they need, the government has created complicated programs that are still letting people fall through the cracks. If the Prime Minister won't commit to a universal benefit, will he at least commit to removing the restrictive eligibility criteria that are leaving the most vulnerable people behind?",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we knew, when this pandemic hit, that we needed to help Canadians who were suffering from coast to coast to coast, particularly the most vulnerable. That is why we moved forward rapidly with the Canada emergency response benefit, which has helped over seven million individual Canadians and has made a huge difference. We had to move very quickly to get this money out to people, and that is exactly what we did. We also recognized that there would be a need to do more. That is why since that moment, we have continually worked on reaching out to the most vulnerable and supporting them as well. We have more to do, but we knew that targeted approaches were what was most needed.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the government continues to leave people behind. I spoke to a woman in my riding who was homeless last year. She recently found a job and a place to live. However, because she didn't make $5,000 last year, when the pandemic hit she didn't qualify for any benefits. She didn't qualify, but she is one of the people who need it the most. I'm wondering why the Prime Minister doesn't think she deserves our support.",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our focus throughout this crisis has been on helping the most vulnerable with targeted measures that will lift Canadians out of poverty and will support them. Over the past five years, we've lifted over a million people out of poverty in this country, and we've continued to put the most vulnerable at the heart of everything we're doing. We will continue to. We've put significant investments forward to charitable organizations and foundations that are helping the most vulnerable. At the same time, we will continue to look for more ways to help even more than the seven million Canadians who successfully receive the CERB. We recognize there's more to do, and we will continue trying to do everything we can in this unprecedented situation.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the government is weirdly committed to eligibility criteria that result in regular people not getting the support they need, but not so committed to criteria for corporations and billionaires who get our help. If a company is cheating the public, using offshore tax havens not to pay its fair share, it should not be eligible for government bailouts or benefits. Other countries, like Poland, Denmark and France, have made this commitment, and if they can do it, so can we. The Prime Minister said one thing one day and another the next. Will he commit now that if a company has money in offshore tax havens, it will not receive public funds?",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the measures we've put forward are focused on helping workers who lose their jobs, regardless of the companies they work for. It is a shame to hear the NDP, which used to be the party of workers, choosing to judge workers by which multinational they work for. We have moved forward with a wage subsidy such that the employers are obliged to pass every single penny on to the workers. That is not help for the companies. That is help for the workers, and that has been our focus all the way through: ordinary Canadians who need support because they are unable to work because of COVID-19. That has been our priority, and that is what Canadians need right now. Of course, we continue to have very strong measures to fight against tax avoidance and tax evasion. We spent a billion dollars to strengthen our Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Chair, can I ask my last question? Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: We will continue to do that.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "I'm just going to pause the time for a moment. I want to remind honourable members that we're trying to stay within committee rules, which state that the length of a question and the length of an answer should be approximately the same amount of time. I just want to remind our members of that. I'll go back to Ms. Collins. She has about 45 seconds left, and hopefully that's about half and half for the question and the answer. Ms. Collins.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thanks so much, Mr. Chair. My last question is about housing and homelessness. My community was facing a crisis long before the pandemic hit, and now people who are living on the streets or in parks don't have the luxury of following public health advice and just staying home. In Victoria, the province and the municipality have stepped up with solutions to house people, at least for the short term, in local hotels. Will the federal government respond to this immediate crisis and provide the needed investments in long-term, stable housing?",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins"
},
{
"content": "The right honourable Prime Minister, in 25 seconds or less, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Yes, Mr. Chair, we have moved forward with a historic national housing strategy that puts $40 billion toward housing. Working with partners, we have reduced poverty by over a million people in this country, but there is more to do. We are reducing homelessness by half with historic investments. We recognize that during this pandemic there's even more to do for vulnerable Canadians, and we are partnering with orders of government to make sure that happens.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "A point of order, Mr.Chair.",
"speaker": "Mr. Jol Godin (PortneufJacques-Cartier, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Order. Mr.Godin has a point of order.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I cannot hear the French interpretation. Could we please check so that I can hear in French what the Prime Minister is saying?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jol Godin"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Can we check that?",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Mr. Jol Godin"
},
{
"content": "I can try speaking English. I believe I was on the English tab, as is important. Are you hearing the translation now?",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "That is exactly what the issue was. I just want to point that out to all the members. I'm speaking English right now and I'm on the English toggle at the bottom of the screen. It does create a bit of a disjoint when we're speaking, but it's the way to get around that so we have interpretation that works for everyone. The next question will go to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as this is our first opportunity to meet in any forum, I want to take this opportunity to express my condolences to the families of the brave men and women who lost their lives in the helicopter crash. I know that I speak for all parliamentarians when I extend our sympathy to their families and loved ones. Mr. Chair, I want to raise with the Prime Minister an issue that I've raised several times before, and that is a gap in the wage subsidy program. There is a company in my riding that employs thousands of people across the country. Last year, they acquired another company. Those companies separately would qualify for the wage subsidy, but because of rules that the government designed, together they do not. Even though collectively they have experienced a massive drop in revenue and would otherwise be eligible, so far they've been unable to get confirmation that they will be able to access the program. As a result, thousands of jobs are threatened. Will the Prime Minister be able to deliver some good news to people who work for Brandt Tractor all across the country?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition)"
},
{
"content": "I thank the honourable member for his question and for his advocacy for his community and businesses in his riding. As I told him when we spoke directly, Finance officials have been directly in contact with the company in his riding. We recognize that there are particular elements in regard to this company that are challenging around application for the wage subsidy, but I know that Finance officials are working very hard to try to make sure that everyone who needs the subsidy gets it, so that the workers in his community can get the support they need.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "The Prime Minister knows that there are many companies across the country that fall into this category as well, so we're hoping for some good news. Just flagging the time and date, it is well into May now and important decisions have to be made in very short order. There are other aspects of the government's plans to help get people through this crisis that are also causing people to fall through the cracks. The plan to help businesses with rent applies only after a business has lost 70% of their revenue. As provinces start to open up, many companies are going to be faced with a very difficult decision of operating at perhaps 35% or 45% of regular revenues. They will not be able to access these programs and, in many cases, there is going to be a disincentive to reopen and put people back to work. Will the Prime Minister amend these programs to provide for more flexibility so that more and more Canadians can start to return to work in the weeks ahead?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are in an unprecedented crisis and we had to move quickly to support workers and to support families across the country, and that's exactly what we did. We're going to continue to work to try to respond to the reality that people and businesses are facing right across the country. I am eager to be faced with the challenge of how to ease off in these measures so that people can get back to work. We are getting closer to that point, but we are not there yet. We are still focused very much on giving the supports to workers and families that are so necessary in this time of crisis. As different provinces move forward towards reopening, as we look at different paths forward, I know that I will be able to count on all members in the House and, indeed, on Canadians from coast to coast to coast to figure out together what the best way will be to move forward on keeping us safe and restoring economic activity in the right way. That will be good to work on together once we get there.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We have about a minute left for maybe a 30-second question and a 30-second answer. Mr. Scheer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, no one is disputing the need to move quickly. We are now in May, though, and these programs have been announced for weeks. Canadians have been accessing them. The problems with them have been flagged for the government for weeks as well, but we're also going to see an additional challenge, where people who are receiving the emergency response benefit, who may have the option to go back to work and work some hours, are faced with a hard cap of $1,000 a month before they lose the CERB. Conservatives are proposing a progressive system, a more flexible system, where people will be able to earn more without losing their benefits as businesses ramp up but before normal working hours are restored. Again, will the Prime Minister build in some flexibility to lift the restrictive ceiling on what people can earn before losing benefits so that it always pays more to work?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "I believe the timer is telling all of us that the time is up, but I'll give the right honourable Prime Minister about 30 seconds to answer that, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our priority was getting support for Canadians right across the country with the CERB, with the wage subsidy and with other measures for students, for seniors, for farmers and for agricultural producers. That has been our priority, and that's what we have worked on. I hear the concerns that the Conservative Party has around disincentives. We are going to work with communities and with industry as we look to reopen, to make sure that people have opportunities to work and are not penalized for it. However, our overarching priority was allowing Canadians to be confident in their ability to stay home, care for their loved ones, buy groceries and pay their rent so that we could keep safe during this pandemic. That's exactly what we did.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to Ms. Gladu now.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, seniors in my riding are struggling. We've heard the Prime Minister admit that fixed incomes for some of them are down, rent is increasing and the price of groceries is increasing. He's been saying for weeks that in the coming days, something would be announced for seniors. The fact is that the Liberals ran on an election promise to increase the old age security. Which of the days in the coming weeks will they keep their promise to seniors?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu (SarniaLambton, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, after a lifetime of hard work, of course Canadians deserve peace of mind when it comes to their retirement security. COVID-19 is definitely having a disproportionate impact on seniors. They have a greater need for services and supports. Happily, their pensions and their benefits are still flowing, unlike for so many of those who have lost their jobs, but it's still tough. We introduced measures Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Which day? Hon. Deb Schulte: at the beginning of April. People received a GST credit, a supplementary payment that was $400 on average for single seniors and $600 for couples. That was of significant help to low- and moderate-income seniors.",
"speaker": "Hon. Deb Schulte (Minister of Seniors)"
},
{
"content": "We have a point of order from Ms. Gladu.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Yes, Mr. Chair. I think you had reminded us as members that the amount of time for the answer should be similar to the amount of time for the question. I would just ask the minister to keep to that. I would like to go to my second question.",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind all honourable members to keep their answers as well as their questions as concise as possible. Ms. Gladu.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Very good, Mr. Chair. My riding is on the border of Canada and the U.S. We see a number of inconsistencies in what is considered essential travel with regard to the U.S. and actually in the interpretation of different CBSA agents. While we have Americans coming over to buy cheaper prescription medications and to fish, individuals in my riding who are trying to get auditors over so that they can be approved for export businesses are being declined. We have people who have purchased masts from Canadian producers for their boats, and who want to come and pick them up, who are not being allowed to do that. People trying to sell plasma into the U.S. are being denied. When will they clarify the rules to the CBSA agents so that essential travel and trade and commerce, including individual commerce, is understood?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have implemented very rigorous rules that have been well documented and understood by CBSA to stop all non-essential travel. Those measures have been very successful. We've seen a 99% reduction in international travel coming into Canada. At the same time, we recognize the importance of maintaining essential supply routes so that goods and services could reach Canada and we could put groceries on our shelves. We also recognize the important work that essential workers do on both sides of the border. We have provided CBSA with clarification. Their interpretation of those rules has been broadly consistent. I've heard from a number of our colleagues in caucus with concerns about individual cases. When we receive those inquiries, we follow up immediately. I want to assure the member that we'll continue to do that. The work we are doing to stop non-essential travel has been important for the health and safety of Canadians, and we will continue with that work.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, my next question has to do with sole proprietor businesses. We see that many of them are not eligible for any of the benefit packages that have been rolled outEI, CERB, the wage subsidy, etc. What is the government going to do to address sole proprietors who are currently falling through the cracks?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, first, let me say that we absolutely recognize there are businesses across the country of all sizes that are finding this to be extremely difficult. The intent of the measures we put forward is obviously not only to give individuals a bridge but to give businesses a bridge. We are looking at ways that we can ensure that the Canada emergency business account has the broadest possible application. More than 500,000 businesses have already been approved for these loans, representing over $20 billion. We are looking at ways we can consider that eligibility process, recognizing that we need to make sure that the program continues to have its desired impact, and we will have more to say on that.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance)"
},
{
"content": "The next question will go to Mr. Arnold.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this is my first appearance, so I hope you can hear me okay.",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold (North OkanaganShuswap, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We can hear you fine. Please proceed.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to see everyone's faces. On April 3, the fisheries minister said opening dates would be determined by harvesters. Since then the minister has overruled the will of harvesters in Prince Edward Island and in the gulf who voted to start their seasons on time, but she has allowed harvesters from her own riding to proceed with their seasons as scheduled, giving them access to markets weeks before their competitors. This double standard is severely unfair and Atlantic harvesters are furious, as demonstrated during the protests on the Canso Causeway yesterday. When will the minister stop abusing her position and start respecting fish harvesters by opening up lobster fishing areas 23, 24 and 26?",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, when making decisions with regard to when seasons open, a number of factors are taken into account. They are complex decisions that take into account what is necessary for processors to be ready for the season, what is necessary for harvesters to be ready for the season, as well socio-economic impacts on the area. We're looking at all of those measures when we make these decisions. We do not make them lightly. They are difficult decisions to make. In the decisions we've made around the gulf, one of the main things we heard from all of those areas is that it was very important for them to start on the same date. That is why the decision was made to start on the 15th of May. We're looking forward to seeing the harvesters out on the water. We're looking forward to the product that they bring in. We'll continue do everything we can to support the industry.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan (Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Minister. I believe the time",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold"
},
{
"content": "Excuse me. No, the hon. minister had another 15 seconds coming to her. I'd like to remind hon. members not to interrupt a person while they are speaking. I'll do my best to try to keep it about level. Maybe I'll start muting if it's necessary, but interrupting is not going to solve anything. Mr. Arnold, I'll let you continue. You have three minutes and nine seconds left.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. West coast fishing tourism is a key economic driver in British Columbia, especially in coastal communities, and yet the public fishery gets no respect from the government. Last year, the public fishery was weakened by restrictions based on ideology and not science. A year later, the fisheries minister refuses even to discuss viable, science-based solutions to conserve B.C.'s public fisheries. Does the minister and her government have a will and a plan to support Canada's west coast fisheries and the communities they sustain?",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold"
},
{
"content": "The hon. minister in 30 seconds, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the fishery is important in every coastal community. I recognize its value for our economy, as well as what it means to our coastal communities. That's why we continue to work with those communities and with the fisheries to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can to support them. During these extremely difficult times, we're working on measures with the fishery in B.C., as well as on the Atlantic coast and eastern Quebec, to make sure that we're delivering for them and that all of the issues they're having are being addressed.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Arnold.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Canada's seniors, especially those on basic incomes, are being hard hit by the COVID-19 crisis as they face new rising costs and scarcity of services. Seniors require adequate caregiver supports, physical safety and freedom to access their savings to reinforce their financial security. Why has the government failed to recognize the increasing challenges that seniors are facing? Will the government support Canada's senior citizens?",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold"
},
{
"content": "The hon. minister in 30 seconds or less, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to assure my hon. colleague that the government has been focused on seniors during this challenging time. We have provided a GST credit supplement of $400 for single seniors and $600 for couples, for low- and modest-income seniors. We have also ensured that the Canada emergency response benefit is there for seniors who have lost income due to COVID-19. We've made them eligible.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Arnold. Mr. Arnold, you have a minutehopefully a 30-second question and a 30-second answer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. On April 23, my colleagues and I called on the government to create a program that would match students seeking employment with employers in Canada's essential food supply chains. What has the government done to match students and other Canadians seeking employment with employers in the agriculture and agri-food sectors, including those in the fish and seafood sector?",
"speaker": "Mr. Mel Arnold"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we're doing all we can to make sure, using our existing employment programs, that we create opportunities for students to work and get work experience this summer. We know that this is going to be really tough, especially in areas like agriculture, so we have dedicated streams for agriculture sector employers to access students with help from the government, and a number of different initiatives including Canada summer jobs, which I'm really excited to see the results of in the coming days.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion)"
},
{
"content": "Now we'll go on to the next question from Ms. Harder. Ms. Rempel, do you have a point of order?",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. With my colleague, Mr. Arnold, it's the second time that I note you've threatened to cut off a Conservative microphone. I'm just wondering, given that this isn't the House of Commons and it's structured as a committee, what standing order would give you the right to cut off a member of Parliament using a mute button. It seems a little dictatorial, and I was just wondering whether you could clarify that, based on the Standing Orders.",
"speaker": "Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner (Calgary Nose Hill, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I don't think I threatened to use mute, but thank you for bringing that up. I am trying to keep the rules where the questions and the answers are equal, so that there are no interruptions on either side. That's how we're going to continue. I didn't use the mute. I did it verbally and I think that's a little more civil way of doing it. I hope you approve. I'm not asking you to comment on that. We'll go over to Ms. Harder. Thank you.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "But, on the point of order, Mr. Chair, you actually, to me, last week, and to Mr. Arnold, did suggest that you were going to use the mute button.",
"speaker": "Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner"
},
{
"content": "I believe that if we take everything out and go over it.... Bring the papers with the actual verbiage on it where I threatened, and we'll go over it, but I don't think this is the venue to do that. If you want to bring forward a point of order, I'm all in favour of it.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Well, I am bringing forward a point of order. I've asked you to clarify",
"speaker": "Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner"
},
{
"content": "Very good. We'll look into it and get back to you. Thank you. We'll go on to Ms. Harder.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Canadians have outrightly expressed outrage and disappointment with the government's initiative to put a gun ban in place. Does the minister stand by his comment that these changes would have prevented the tragedy in Nova Scotia?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister in 15 seconds or less, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "We have heard from health professionals, women's rights organizations, victims groups and the police and our unions. They're all very supportive of the government's measure to ban weapons that have no place in a civil society and were designed to kill people.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "It's interesting that the minister is misleading Canadians in that comment because the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police has actually said that a gun ban will do nothing of the sort, that it actually will not protect Canadians. So I'd be curious. How many criminals will see guns seized because of the changes that have been implemented by the Liberal government?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Yes, let's actually quote what the police have said. The Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police said that they support a prohibition on all military-designed assault rifles. The chief in Toronto said that taking those assault rifles off the streets contributes to public safety, and the Canadian Association of Police Chiefs has declared that military assault rifles are produced for the sole purpose of killing people in large numbers and they urged successive governments to enact legislation to ban all military assault rifles.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "The answer to that question is zero. Absolutely no criminals will see their guns seized based on the Liberals' legislation that's coming forward because it actually goes after those who legally own and use their firearms. Can the Prime Minister please tell us why he decided to go after law-abiding citizens instead of actually going after criminals who have gotten their firearms in an illegal manner and then used them to commit crimes?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister in 25 seconds or less, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Yes, to be very clear, the order in council actually is targeted at weapons, weapons that were designed for military use, and in their design and in their intent, to kill people, they've actually been used in this country, at cole Polytechnique; in Moncton; at a Quebec City mosque; in Fredericton; at Mayerthorpe and most recently in Nova Scotia. These are weapons that really have no place.... They are being used and have been used in Canada and around the world to commit mass murder, and in the interest of public safety and at the urging",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "We'll go on to Ms. Harder.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Now I understand the Prime Minister has his food prepared for him at 24 Sussex Drive and then it's delivered to him at the cottage where he lives. Contrary to his privileged understanding, food actually originates with farmers. Now, they're in a crisis right now, which means that regular Canadians are actually at risk of not having food available for them at the grocery stores where they purchase theirs. The Canadian Federation of Agriculture requested $2.6 billion to help them out. Today, the government announced one-tenth of this amount. Why doesn't the Prime Minister care about the women and the men who work incredibly hard to keep Canada fed?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let me assure the hon. member that our government cares very, very much about the women and men who work so hard to feed our country. Let me just say I am grateful to all the farmers, like my dad, who are out in their fields right now getting ready for seeding. We, as Canadians, are lucky to be citizens of an agricultural superpower, and our government believes in supporting our farmers and ranchers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "I'm confused as to why the Prime Minister didn't take my question, and at a bare minimum as to why the agriculture minister doesn't feel it's important enough for her to be a part of this discussion today. When we have farmers who produce for Canadians on a daily basis and they're asking some serious and some very important questions, and we don't even have a minister who's willing to come to the table and engage in this conversation, that's shameful. Several meat-packing plants have been forced to shut down because of COVID-19 and, as a result, farmers are forced to hold stock longer than expected. Cattle producers in my region are spending more than $60,000 a day to keep their livestock fed while they wait for processing plants to reopen. The amount that was announced today by the federal government is a drop in the bucket. It's a crumb. When will the government take this seriously and at least implement a set-aside program for those who are beef producers in Canada?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let me just say that I feel there is nothing shameful at all in having me, the Deputy Prime Minister, answer questions about agriculture. I am actually very proud to speak up for Canada's amazing farmers, for our country's amazing ranchers, for our amazing pork producers and our poultry producers. I feel so close to our farmers. I love them and our government supports them. Today, we announced $252 million of support for our producers. They need it. They deserve it. We're here for them.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Now we'll go on to Mr. Bezan.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too would like to express my sincere condolences to the families and friends of the six military heroes who lost their lives at sea last week. I'm sure that all members of the House stand shoulder to shoulder with the families, with the crew of the HMCS Fredericton and, indeed, with the entire Canadian Armed Forces community during this time of grief. Can the Minister of National Defence give us an update as to the Cyclone helicopter crash off the coast of Greece last week?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the deaths of the Canadian Armed Forces members are felt by all, and especially the families. Our condolences go out to them. Our number one priority is to make sure that we look after them, and that's exactly what we are doing. Currently, the investigation is ongoing. Our investigative team is currently on the ground. I actually spoke with the Italian minister of defence and he promised full support for this investigation and any support that's required.",
"speaker": "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan (Minister of National Defence)"
},
{
"content": "I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut you off there, if we're going by the rules that were pointed out by the House. Mr. Bezan.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you to Minister Sajjan again, I'm going to change gears a bit. I know that back in early January, military intelligence through CF Intelligence Command was reporting, through the chain of command, the novel coronavirus and the outbreak in Wuhan. On what date was he, as Minister of National Defence, given his first intelligence briefing on the outbreak and the pandemic in China?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have been following this crisis from day one. We work with our Five Eyes intelligence sources and this has been a whole-of-government effort, right from the beginning. I can assure you that our response to this pandemic has been with all the necessary information. Obviously, I can't discuss the intelligence in this forum, but I can assure you that our response has been well informed with the correct information.",
"speaker": "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan"
},
{
"content": "Minister Sajjan, we know that intelligence was going up the chain of command in National Defence. It was reported in the media that in early January the hierarchy within the Canadian Armed Forces was being made aware of the coronavirus outbreak. I asked you, Minister, when you became aware of it and what you did with that intelligence.",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I get regular briefings on intelligence. Yes, I was made aware of this in January. As with all our intelligence, we work together from a whole-of-government perspective with all of our intelligence agencies. One thing I can assure you is that our response has been well informed with all the correct information that is provided to me and other members of cabinet.",
"speaker": "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan"
},
{
"content": "What was that timeline? From the time you were first told, Minister Sajjan, about the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan, what did you do with that intelligence? When did you give it to the Prime Minister or to Minister Hajdu as the Minister of Health?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let me say that our government's response to this global pandemic has of course been informed by the excellent work of Canadian intelligence agencies throughout. We have been working on this from very early on. On January 2, PHAC first spoke with provincial health authorities to alert them to the situation. On January 14, it convened a meeting of all provincial health authorities. In January, the Prime Minister convened a meeting of the incident response group, and in January we increased screening at all major airports. All of these actions were informed by the work of our excellent intelligence community, and of course our work with our Five Eyes, NATO and NORAD allies.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "I want to come back",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "We now move to Mr.Ste-Marie.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I still have 30 seconds left.",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Can I go ahead, Mr.Chair?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Yes, go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. In an interview with Grald Fillion, tax expert Andr Lareau, who specializes in tax havens, pointed out that $350billion Canadian is parked in just 12tax havens. Companies are using tax havens for financing, operations and intellectual property activities. Mr.Lareau also notes that the government is aware that all of this Canadian money is stashed in tax havens but is doing nothing about it. He said that it's time for Canada to tackle the problem given that it has a $250-billion deficit, and that if it doesn't act now to change things, it never will. Is the government going to seize this opportunity to outlaw the corporate use of tax havens?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, as soon as we took office, in 2015, our government made cracking down on tax evaders in Canada and abroad a priority. That's precisely why we put nearly a billion dollars towards that effort. I realize that my fellow member is impatient, but he has to understand that this is a very complex issue. Under our leadership, in three years, the Canada Revenue Agency has undertaken twice as many audits related to offshore tax evasion as it did in the 10years the Conservatives were in power. As we speak, the agency is conducting more than 50criminal investigations tied to international tax evasion. I repeat, this is a top priority for our government.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue)"
},
{
"content": "You're right, I am very impatient, because whenever I bring up the fact that companies are using tax havens legally, the minister misses the point and tells me that she is going after fraudsters. I am talking about the legal use of tax havens by companies. Since Parliament began sitting virtually, it's been mentioned a few times that Denmark and Poland have decided to deal with the issue. Even France's finance minister, Bruno LeMaire, said that companies with subsidiaries in tax havens would not be eligible for public assistance. We hear thePrime Minister and other government officials say all the time that the wage subsidies are going to workers, so I'd like to cite another examplebanks. The government is injecting huge amounts of cash into the financial system and repurchasing troubled assets in massive quantities, and yet, the five major banks in Toronto, alone, are continuing to save billions of dollars every year by artificially redirecting their profits to tax havens. This is unacceptable. This has nothing to do with wages for workers, and everything to do with the repurchase of troubled assets, cash flow and billions of dollars that the government could be going after. Is the government going to seize this opportunity to make the corporate use of tax havens illegal?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, our government is taking unprecedented steps through the Canada emergency wage subsidy measure to support businesses and workers affected by COVID-19. This is largely a trust-based program, and we will not tolerate abuse. Anyone who tries to bypass the rules will face serious consequences. Applicants have to designate an individual to attest to the truth of their claim. What's more, any employer receiving the subsidy who is deemed ineligible will have to repay the full amount. Anyone who abuses the program could face a fine of up to 225% of the wage subsidy amount and up to five years in prison. The Canada Revenue Agency also has a myriad of tools at its disposal to detect a fraudulent claim. As I mentioned, cracking down on tax evasion is a priority for our government.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Ste-Marie, you have about 30seconds to ask your question, and about the same for the answer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. That's an excellent answer, but it has nothing to do with my question. The Minister of Finance has the power to fix the problem now. Although completely immoral, the use of tax havens by companies is legal under section5907 of the Income Tax Regulations. Through simple regulatory amendments, the finance minister could put an end to this kind of abuse. We are going to have a $250-billion deficit to pay off, and everyone is going to have to chip in, including the rich who are currently taking advantage of the system.",
"speaker": "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, thanks to a historic billion-dollar investment, our government has given the agency the resources it needs to do the job, and we are starting to see results. I set up an expert advisory committee to provide us with guidance and recommendations. We tightened the rules for the voluntary disclosures program. We signed tax information exchange agreements with a number of countries. We audit four jurisdictions a year. We also work closely with the OECD.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "We now move on to another member. The next questioner is Mr. Rogers.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm sharing my time slot with the member for SurreyNewton. In the wake of COVID-19, so many Canadians have been affected in so many ways. Financial loss and other burdens are having a huge impact on families across our country. I'm proud of how the Government of Canada has been beside Canadians through every step of this pandemic and has supported Canadians when they needed it most. In BonavistaBurinTrinity and across our country, our commercial fishery has seen many challenges and impacts. Last week, my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, announced an investment that will ensure resilience of the food system by allowing Canada's fish and seafood processing sector to safely and efficiently process, store, package and distribute healthy, high-quality products on to the plates of Canadians. The fish harvesters in my riding are fearful of what will happen within this industry and their immediate futures. They are facing a reduction in available markets and market prices. They are asking what our government is putting in place to assist in these extremely challenging times. When can we expect to hear an answer to our harvesters' requests for assistance?",
"speaker": "Mr. Churence Rogers (BonavistaBurinTrinity, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank my colleague from BonavistaBurinTrinity for keeping us well aware of what's happening in his riding with harvesters and with processors. We know how important the fish and seafood sector is to our rural communities, our coastal communities. It's the backbone and the lifeblood of our communities and that's why we want to be there to support them. We've already taken steps by making sure that the CERB is now able to be accessed by people who are seasonal workers. As well, we are making sure that people who are running out of fishers EI are also able to qualify for it. We also have made an investment of $62.5 million to support our processors to make sure they are able to be ready for the challenges that they are going to face because of COVID-19. We know there is more to do. We know that the harvesters need support. We are working with our partners across industry to make sure we're hearing what their major concerns are. We know they are going to have some very challenging times this season. We will have more to say about that and what we will be able to do in the coming days.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan"
},
{
"content": "The next questioner is Mr. Dhaliwal.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, in my riding of SurreyNewton, I'm in close contact with businesses that represent all",
"speaker": "Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal (SurreyNewton, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We have a point of order. Mr. Kurek.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, but there seems to be an issue with the audio. I'm unable to hear the honourable member.",
"speaker": "Mr. Damien Kurek (Battle RiverCrowfoot, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "It is very faint. Mr. Dhaliwal, can you check your audio to make sure everything's working well?",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "It was",
"speaker": "Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal"
},
{
"content": "There we go. It's fine now. I think what happened was the boom had fallen down and it wasn't being picked up. There you go. Very good.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, in my riding of SurreyNewton, I'm in close contact with businesses that represent all vantage points in the supply chainfrom manufacturers to retailers, transport companies to warehousing. With provinces and territories moving at different speeds and implementing different protocols for reopening the economy, there is a lot of confusion in my local business community on the timing and logistics of how this will happen. With so many different parts of the supply chain operating in different jurisdictions, and with each business serving unique roles on this spectrum, how can the federal government serve to best coordinate with the provinces and territories so that the supply chain can be implemented smoothly as we embark on our economic recovery?",
"speaker": "Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank my colleague for his question and for his hard work. One of the most important things the federal government can do when it comes to the reopening of the Canadian economy is to work in close collaboration with the premiers of the provinces and territories. That's why I was so pleased that last week the Prime Minister, together with all the first ministers of the country, was able to issue a statement around the principles that will be guiding our entire country as we move towards a restart. This is so important because, as my colleague has pointed out, all of our business, our economic activity, happens across the country. It happens across provincial and territorial boundaries. I would really also like to take this opportunity to thank the first ministers across the country. They belong to different parties, but everyone has really been able to put partisanship aside. We have been able to work together in fighting coronavirus, and we are going to work together in the future to keep on fighting coronavirus and to reopen Canada. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "The next question goes to Ms. McPherson.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to represent my constituents virtually during this challenging period of physical distancing. I'd like to start by asking about supports for workers. In Alberta, meat-packing plants are directly responsible for nearly a quarter of all COVID-19 cases. The government and management ignored the pleas of workers and did not put effective safety protocols in place to deal with COVID-19. Now, two workers are dead, at least six more are in intensive care and COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire through these communities. There are over 1,400 cases. Yesterday, employees were forced back to work even though their concerns had not been addressed. On March 27, regarding the CERB, the Minister of Finance said that if workers don't feel comfortable in their work, if they decide to stay home, they can apply for the benefit, yet the website says differently. Will the minister guarantee that every Canadian receiving CERB, EI or the CESB will not lose their benefits if they refuse to return to work or to accept work that is unsafe due to COVID-19?",
"speaker": "Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Let me thank the member, first of all, for her really very important question. I think all of us share the concern for Canada's essential workers who are keeping us safe, putting food on our tables and often working in difficult conditions. When it comes to the Cargill plant, this is an issue that our government has been very closely engaged in. My colleague, the Minister of Agriculture, has spoken with her provincial counterpart and the head of the plant. The decisions about suspending and reopening are taken by local and provincial health authorities. To the question my colleague asked about workers, it is absolutely the case that no Canadian should feel they need to work in an environment that is unsafe, and it is also very much the case that any Canadian who is feeling unwell should stay at home. This is the way that collectively we take care of ourselves and we take care",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We will go on to Ms. McPherson for the next question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I just want to be clear, because I'm not a hundred per cent sure that I got an answer in that response, so I'll try one more time. Knowing that workers have a fundamental right to refuse unsafe work, can the minister confirm one hundred per cent that if workers refuse unsafe work, they will be able to access the CERB, or was the Minister of Finance incorrect when he spoke on March 27?",
"speaker": "Ms. Heather McPherson"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry, but I was struggling with my mute button. I apologize. Let me just be very clear. No Canadian worker at any time should feel obliged to go to work in unsafe conditions.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "But then could they access the CERB?",
"speaker": "Ms. Heather McPherson"
},
{
"content": "In a time of coronavirus that is even more the case, and the government of course should not penalize workers for doing the right thing and declining to go to work in unsafe conditions.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind the honourable members to place their questions through the Chair to avoid back and forth, just to try to keep some order in the meeting. Ms. McPherson, please continue.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry, Chair. I have another question on the protection for workers. At the meat-packing plant, workers are calling for the plant to be shut down. In fact, we know that 85% of workers are afraid for their safety. If the provincial government won't shut down the plant, will the federal government shut down unsafe plants through the Canadian Food Inspection Agency?",
"speaker": "Ms. Heather McPherson"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, on the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, let me be very clear that my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture, has been in touch with provincial authorities. She has been in touch with the plant. The duties of the food inspection agency, of course, are to ensure that the food produced at the plant is safe. That is what inspectors are trained to do and what they are focused on. We are working closely with provincial authorities and with health authorities to ensure that",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Ms. McPherson.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this will be one of my final questions on the meat-packing plant in Alberta. Can the finance minister please let us know if Cargill, a company that is owned by billionaires, with business in Luxembourg, a known tax haven, has received any federal funding this year for COVID-related support?",
"speaker": "Ms. Heather McPherson"
},
{
"content": "This is a tough time for Canadians, and our government is doing everything it can to support them. More than 7million Canadians have applied for the Canada emergency response benefit, which the Canada Revenue Agency and Service Canada administer. I want to say how proud I am of the work the agency is doing; staff worked tirelessly to get the program up and running in record time. MinisterQualtrough is responsible for developing the eligibility criteria and processing the claims.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "We are moving on to the next question. We'll continue now with Mr. Bragdon.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question today is for the Prime Minister. Potato farmers in New Brunswick and across Canada are sitting on massive stores of potatoes that were destined for the restaurant industry, but due to the pandemic, they now have no customers. It's estimated that there is $300 million worth of potatoes still sitting in storage. What is the Prime Minister's plan for the helping farmers offload these potatoes so that they are ready for the 2020 season?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Bragdon (TobiqueMactaquac, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I think all of us as Canadians are proud of the great potato farmers across the country. We are aware that the coronavirus, by keeping us away from restaurants where we eat french fries, has had a profound effect on the market for potatoes. The program announced today by the Prime Minister and my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture, will be very helpful for potato farmers, including with the surplus food program that starts with a $50 million fund, and that",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Bragdon now.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, thank you. With an estimated $300 million worth of potatoes in storage, the announced funding from the government today simply doesn't go far enough. In 2018 the New Brunswick potato industry lost over $20 million. It is estimated this year that the financial loss will exceed $40 million. For many producers still recovering from the hit they took in 2018, another major loss is totally unacceptable. How does the Prime Minister plan to mitigate these shortfalls and allow farmers to continue to grow the food we so desperately need?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Bragdon"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the honourable member spoke about farmers generally. The program today is $252 million, which comes on top of the broad range of other programs that farmers, of course, have access to. On potato farmers, in particular, I agree with the honourable member that this is a specific area of concern. I think all Canadians would like to see those potatoes not be wasted but be used, and that's why the $50 million for surplus food purchase is going to be so helpful.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, farmers across all agricultural sectors are hurting during this pandemic. The $16-billion beef industry is expected to take a massive hit due to the closures and reduced production of the meat-packing plants. Does the government truly believe that the announced $125 million that is shared between beef, poultry and pork producers will be enough to support these multi-billion dollar industries so they can put food on the tables of Canadians?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Bragdon"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I absolutely agree with the honourable member that our beef, pork and poultry producers are absolutely essential for our country. I am very pleased as a Canadian that we have security that comes from being a country that produces not only enough food for ourselves, but also enough food to feed the world. That is why the $125 million specifically to support our beef, pork and poultry producers is going to be so helpful.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the government's announcement of $252 million for the agriculture sector falls well short of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture's request for immediate government relief for farmers. The president of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, Mary Robinson, put it today something like this: that if the farmhouse is on fire, the government has offered the equivalent of a bucket of water. This will not go nearly far enough to help those in a desperate situation. Does the government have a plan to offer more than just crumbs to keep the vital agriculture sector operating and providing the food we so desperately need? When will the government finally make those who literally keep our land and grow our food a priority in this time of crisis?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Bragdon"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I don't know about the honourable member, but where I come from, $252 million is not just crumbs. I know that Canadian farmers don't feel that $252 million is nothing, either. I would like to take this opportunity to highlight two other aspects of the essential support for farmers that we announced today: the $77 million to support food processors, which will not only be important for the processors, but helpful for the farmers who produce products that go to them; and the $250 million that we would like to add to the Canadian Dairy Commission's line of credit to raise it to half a billion dollars, which will be very helpful to our essential dairy farmers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Now we'll go to the next question. Go ahead, Mrs. Wagantall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, a couple in my riding has had to shut down their business, and they are on CERB. They were shocked when their 16-year-old son also qualified, and he is receiving $8,000 on the basis of part-time work throughout the school year. Why is the government handing out a windfall to teenagers who are living at home while denying university students and ignoring seniors on fixed incomes?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall (YorktonMelville, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, any individual who has lost work for COVID reasons is eligible for the CERB, regardless of their personal circumstances. If you made $5,000 in the past year and are a resident of Canada, you qualify for the CERB. This is not a matter of differentiating between the personal circumstances of individuals but of acknowledging that many workers in different situations have lost their work or have had their work significantly reduced because of COVID.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "Clearly, high school students would not have the same needs as university students and our seniors who are suffering at this time. The government's own findings on banning handguns and assault firearms state, In all cases the data does not conclusively demonstrate that these handgun or assault weapon bans have led to reductions in gun violence. Why is the Prime Minister so bent on penalizing law-abiding firearms owners when he should be focusing on funding our CBSA officers first, giving them the resources they need to seize smuggled firearms at our borders?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I note with some interest that when we brought forward legislation in a budget in the last two years to increase the number of officers at the border, the member opposite voted against it. I'm very pleased to hear that she now supports it. Let us be very clear. The evidence is overwhelming that these weapons are designed to be used, and have been used, to kill innocent people. Countries that adopt sensible gun policiesplaces like New Zealand, Australia, the United Kingdomhave all recognized that there's no place for these weapons in a civil society. We promised Canadians that we would act on that concern. There have been far too many people killed with these weapons, and even most recently, to honour and respect the terrible tragedy in Nova Scotia, the time to act is now, and we've acted.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Last week the Minister of Agriculture said, Step by step we are giving our farmers...the tools they need to continue their...work. On April 30, the Canadian Federation of Agriculture called on the minister to create a $2.6-billion fund to maintain food security in Canada. This morning, the Prime Minister announced $252 million, hit-and-miss, across the agriculture sector. With all due respect, this is a slap in the face to our farmers and the agri-food sector. Instead of being here to speak to this announcement, the minister has chosen to do a press conference. This certainly reveals how seriously the minister takes this virtual sitting and parliamentary accountability. If the deputy minister is going to answer the question in her place, how does she see it is right to be providing $9 billion to students and only crumbs to our agriculture sector?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, first of all, let me say I do not, as has now been suggested by two members opposite, consider it in any way shameful that I should be answering questions about our support for the agricultural sector. Our government strongly supports our farmers. I have to say I personally very strongly support our farmers and have a strong personal connection to them. The $252 million of support is real and meaningful, and it is directed exactly where it is needed. It is directed at food processors, beef and pork producers and the dairy sector. As to the question about students, let me just point out that farm kids are students too, and farm kids will be benefiting from the support for students. I know they, their parents and grandparents are very",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Time is up.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Lehoux, the next question goes to you.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. Meat packing plants like Quebec-based Olymel are extremely worried that they won't be able to stay open throughout the pandemic. In the summer, these plants rely on students to do overtime and fill in for full-time employees on vacation. However, the Canada emergency student benefit makes it possible for these much-needed workers to stay home while still collecting the same amount of money. That's why the government must adjust its current summer job program for students in the agriculture and agri-food sectors. When is the government going to make these critical changes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux (Beauce, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I can assure you that we are doing our best efforts to not disincentivize work. We know we need to support students with income support, but we also need to create jobs. We are looking at ways we can create additional jobs through Canada summer jobs, through the",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "There is a point of order.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, what the minister is saying is not being interpreted.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (SalaberrySurot, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We'll just check to see how the technology is going. Is everything okay now?",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Yes, it's working.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille"
},
{
"content": "Let's try that again, Minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Last week, as part of the measures announced around supporting our students, we announced the creation of 76,000 additional jobs, including jobs in the agriculture and processing sectors. We know we need to work directly with employers to ensure they have the people they need. This is exactly what we're doing through our youth employment and skills strategy, and that's what we'll continue to do. We won't apologize for supporting students with income support in these difficult times.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure the minister understood my question about the Canada emergency student benefit. I am very concerned about the agricultural sector, but the tourist and horticultural sectors are also on my mind. A number of business owners in my riding have reached out to me because the shortage of student workers is forcing them to shut down for the summer. This government has pulled the rug out from under them with the benefit it introduced for students. Minister, what do you have to say to those business owners in the tourist and horticultural sectors whom you are not helping?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, with all due respect, I believe we are helping students. We've heard very clearly from the students that they want to work and want to serve in their communities in this time of crisis. That's why we're creating additional employment opportunities and an income support mechanism that allows them to work. We're going to continue to look at ways we can support them through additional opportunities this summer. We know they want to work and they want to serve.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "I hope that we'll see some concrete results. Pork and beef producers are feeling the impact of the country's shutdown triggered by the pandemic. Processing plants are suspending operations and buyers are tearing up their contracts. For the past five years, the government has been saying that the programs to help producers will be improved. Now more than ever, producers need these programs. However, the programs haven't been reviewed yet. When will the government make these changes, including the changes to agristability, and when can producers access them?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "We announced over $77 million in assistance for food processors to help them protect their workers and deal with the costs associated with the coronavirus. To help livestock and pork producers, we established agrirecovery, a national initiative that will provide $125million to help producers adapt to market changes. We're launching",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Lehoux has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. I understand some of what the minister is saying. The measures announced at noon today received a very cold reception from the entire agriculture and agri-food sector, since the sector had asked for about $2.6billion. I think that it's important to support our agri-food industry and our farms, given the significant need for sovereignty. Many Canadians in the agriculture and agri-food sector have made this clear, as I was saying earlier. Something must be done quickly, before our country becomes completely dependent on its neighbours. Has the government considered making significant changes to the various programs currently in place?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Lehoux"
},
{
"content": "Our country, Canada, will never depend on its neighbours or any other country for food. Canada is a major beef, pork and grain producer. Canada is an agricultural superpower and we should all take pride in that. I want to mention another significant part of our announcement today, which is the $50million surplus food purchase program. This is very significant. I think that all Canadians must support this initiative.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll now move on to the next question. Mr.Calkins, the member for RedDeerLacombe, has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends (BrossardSaint-Lambert, Lib.))"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, how will the government's forced confiscation of law-abiding firearms owners' property prevent criminals from illegally acquiring firearms from the United States?",
"speaker": "Mr. Blaine Calkins (Red DeerLacombe, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, in response to that, I would simply remind the member that we have made it very clear that these weapons have no place in civil society, so we have prohibited military-style assault weapons that have been designed to be used to kill people and have been used to kill people. I would also advise the member we will bring forward legislation to deal more effectively at the border. We'll make significant new investments in border services officers and in police. We'll bring forward new authorities, new offences, new penalties to deal with people who smuggle weapons across the border. We're also bringing in new regulations for the storage of weapons to make it more difficult for people to steal these guns. To deal with people who purchase them illegally and sell them illegally, there will be new offences and penalties to make ensure that they face the consequences.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "The government previously has said that decisions like classifying firearms should be left to experts. The recent decision was purely political and it flies in the face of evidence-based policy. A legal opinion that's already been obtained says that the bore of a 12-gauge shotgun with the choke removed is in excess of 20 millimetres. That means every 12-gauge shotgun with a choke in it with that choke removed is now prohibited. That is the same firearm that Olympic trap shooters, Olympic skeet shooters, duck hunters and geese hunters all across our country use on a very regular basis. Why did the government abandon an evidence-based policy?",
"speaker": "Mr. Blaine Calkins"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I'm pleased to have the opportunity to correct the member. First of all, we have prohibited large-bore weapons, such as grenade launchers, but with reference to the 10-gauge shotgun and the 12-gauge shotgun, I would simply remind the member that the bore of a 10-gauge shotgun is 19.69 millimetres in width and the bore of a 12-gauge shotgun is 18.53 millimetres in width, both of them under the size for prohibition and therefore not covered in the new prohibitions that the government introduced on Friday. I'm afraid his expert opinion is wrong.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the opinion is that of one of the foremost experts we have in Canada when it comes to firearms legislation. If the entirety of the barrel length is considered, then the removal of the choke makes that barrel in excess of 20 millimetres. I would appreciate the minister clarifying that for law-abiding firearms owners. There is no plan for a buyback program in this policy, and law-abiding firearms owners are not able currently to surrender their firearms. Given this, and the fact that law-abiding firearms owners aren't committing any gun violence, what was the government's immediate benefit of making this announcement on May 1?",
"speaker": "Mr. Blaine Calkins"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to clarify. Along with the prohibition that we have put in place, we have also, using the order in council, established an amnesty period, but the amnesty period is non-permissive grandfathering of those weapons. They cannot be used, they can't be taken to the range for shooting, they can't be used for hunting, they can't be sold and they can't be transferred, so we have put in strong measures to ensure that these weapons will not be available for use. We have also put in an amnesty period that will allow us to bring forward the legislation and a budget in order to effect a responsible, safe and effective buyback program to remove these weapons from society. I look forward to the member's support for those measures as we go forward.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, since January 1, 2002, any law-abiding citizen who was issued with a firearms licence by the government would have been cross-referenced with a continuous eligibility check 6,695 times up until May 1 of this year. How many times was this most recent mass murderer here in Canada checked against a criminal database since January 2002?",
"speaker": "Mr. Blaine Calkins"
},
{
"content": "As the member is probably aware, there is a very extensive investigation currently being conducted into that individual and how he acquired his firearms, and it's not appropriate to discuss that. However, I think what is appropriate is to recognize that the weapons that this individual had available to him are weapons that were not designed for target shooting or hunting purposes or any sporting purposes. They were designed for soldiers to kill soldiers. In the hands of someone who is intent on mass murder, they represent an unacceptable and deadly risk to Canadians, and that's why we have prohibited them. I'd also remind the member that other countries that have adopted sensible gun control laws, such as New Zealand, Australia and the United Kingdom, have also implemented very similar bans.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Now we will go to the hon. member for NanaimoLadysmith, Mr. Manly.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to start by giving my condolences for the crew from the HMCS Fredericton who died, and in particular to the family of Captain Kevin Hagen. He was originally a constituent from NanaimoLadysmith. Other countries are strongly recommending that all citizens wear masks wherever people gather indoors, including in schools, on public transit and in stores. Taiwan has effectively stopped the spread of the coronavirus by supplying people with masks and installing dispensers of hand sanitizer throughout public spaces. The Taiwanese do not do a lot of testing or contact tracing. They do not have a lockdown. Taiwan started in the top 10 countries affected by COVID-19, and today it is number 119. Will Canada follow Taiwan's example so we can lift the lockdown safely and get Canadians back to work?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and I thank the member for his question. There's no doubt that masks can play a role in a layered approach to protecting Canadians' health and safety, but as the member has mentioned, there are many other aspects to ensuring that Canadians are safe no matter where they go. For example, it is of utmost importance that Canadians practise social distancing. Social distancing can provide the most protection, in fact, when you're out in public or you're in another place where there are other people. Wearing a non-medical mask can add a layer of protection, and certainly Dr. Tam has said that when physical distancing is not an option, Canadians should consider wearing a mask.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I'd like to give a shout-out to Martha and her team, who are doing a fundraiser for the SPCA by making masks for citizens in my riding. Madam Chair, many people are falling through the cracks in the pandemic relief plan, including seniors who face an increase in the cost of living and a loss of retirement investment income. Will the government make the CERB a universal benefit to ensure that all Canadians who need help get help? If not, will the government increase old age security and allow seniors to withdraw funds from their RRSP without penalties so that they can pay their bills?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, and I really appreciate the question. We do recognize that OAS and GIS are very important parts of the retirement income of Canadians, particularly lower-income seniors. We've already introduced measures like the GST credit supplement to help seniors. The CERB is there for working seniors who have lost income as a result of COVID-19. We've also reduced the mandatory retirement withdrawals by 25%, and we've also spent half a billion dollars to support organizations that assist vulnerable Canadians, including seniors",
"speaker": "Hon. Deb Schulte"
},
{
"content": "We are going back to Mr. Manly. Thank you.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "I do recognize that there's more to be done. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Hon. Deb Schulte"
},
{
"content": "Many small businesses do not meet the eligibility requirements for the various relief programs on offer, particularly sole proprietorships. I have a long list of businesses in my riding that are missing out. At the same time, we have large companies in this country that use tax havens and loopholes to avoid paying their fair share of public services. Will the government ensure that the needs of small businesses are met and withhold relief from corporations that use tax havens to avoid paying taxes in Canada?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly"
},
{
"content": "I want to thank the hon. member for the question. Small businesses are indeed incredibly important to all of our communities across the country. That is why we have implemented many measures to help them weather this difficult period in COVID-19. Whether it is a small business loan, a wage subsidy or commercial rent assistance, or just lowering the cost by deferring GST or HST or customs duties, many measures have been put forward to help our small businesses through this very difficult time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Manly, you may have a very short question.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. As we navigate this pandemic crisis, we are also in the middle of another major crisis: the climate emergency. Will this government develop its economic recovery plan for the pandemic with the climate emergency at the forefront of its planning?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly"
},
{
"content": "The hon. minister has 15 seconds.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for the question. The focus of the government at the present time is on combatting the virus and on steps to start to relax some of the measures that have been taken. As we look forward, we need to learn from the experiences of this crisis as well as look forward to some of the looming crises on the horizon. Climate change is one of those, and we certainly intend to reflect on resilience for the economy as we move forward.",
"speaker": "Hon. Jonathan Wilkinson (Minister of Environment and Climate Change)"
},
{
"content": "Now we will go to Ms. Ashton.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is to the Minister of Indigenous Services. First nations across northern Manitoba and many others across the country have been doing everything possible to keep COVID-19 out of their communities. Many here have implemented strict lockdowns or travel restrictions, but the federal government has done virtually nothing to deal with the chronic issues that have made them vulnerable in the first place, such as overcrowded housing and the lack of hospitals. We have to be very concerned about a possible second deadly wave of COVID-19. What is your government doing to support communities in the face of that possibility? Why isn't the government supporting the call for a ventilation centre in Berens River, a hospital in Cross Lake, a hospital in the Island Lake region? If the government couldn't act in time for this first wave of the pandemic, can it at least act in time for a potential second wave?",
"speaker": "Ms. Niki Ashton (ChurchillKeewatinook Aski, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Indeed, Madam Chair, one of the reflections we have in coming out of this global pandemic is that we don't want to go into the next one with the same social determinants of health that have made indigenous communities more vulnerable and more susceptible to contracting and then spreading COVID-19. A lot of the historic housing funds that we have mobilized in order to address overcrowding in particular are cold comfort to those communities that are still finding themselves in overcrowded situations. In the staged approach to the epidemic and the onset of COVID-19, there are many measures that Indigenous Services Canada and as a whole of government we will deploy, including surge capacity, increased PPE, and nurses and doctors. Obviously, we are looking for a medical solution to a medical problem, and that is what we will spare no expense or resource to address as indigenous communities continue to face the looming threat of a second wave of COVID-19 as they start to relax some of their confinement procedures.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Miller (Minister of Indigenous Services)"
},
{
"content": "Again, Madam Chair, to the Minister of Indigenous Services, many of us across northern Canada are deeply concerned by the outbreak taking place in northern Saskatchewan, centred in La Loche. The outbreak started from a worker who came back from a work camp in Fort McMurray. These camps are making workers sick, and they are proving deadly for first nations and northern communities. These work camps put public health at risk during a pandemic. Your government says it's committed to doing everything it can to keep first nations safe, yet nothing has been done to support calls for pandemic shutdowns. Will you support first nations in their call for shutdowns during this pandemic to save lives now?",
"speaker": "Ms. Niki Ashton"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the situation in La Loche is a very pressing concern. Members won't be surprised to know that that number will only increase as the days go on and as we implement aggressive testing and contact tracing. We are working with surrounding first nations and communities and with the Mtis and Dene communities in La Loche to ensure that medical precautions are being put into place and that strict social distancing is being put into effect. This is a situation that is very much evolving minute by minute, and it is something for which we have deployed additional resources, along with Meadow Lake and the Northern Inter-Tribal Health Authority to ensure that there is a health response to a health problem. Clearly, we need coordination with the provinces to ensure that we have a seamless approach",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Miller"
},
{
"content": "My question referred to La Loche, but this is a broader issue. There are many work camps, including here in our north, that first nations are extremely concerned about. Will your government step in to support their calls for temporary shutdowns at this time?",
"speaker": "Ms. Niki Ashton"
},
{
"content": "One of the things we see as we see the evolving dynamic and the potential spreads, particularly the fear of clusters as communities, provinces, territories may choose to relax certain measures, is the need to have a more targeted approach as to how the economy reacts and deals with it, particularly in northern and vulnerable communities. This is something for which we will need to have a serious approach, with both the Minister of Natural Resources and also our provincial counterparts, to make sure that we aren't taking hasty measures to reopen the economy while we're trying to protectand this is our most important goalindigenous communities from getting exposed and spreading COVID-19.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Miller"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries. Hundreds of fishers and their families here in Manitoba who work with the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation are desperately calling for emergency support. Many are calling on the federal government to also work with them and the FFMC to redirect their product to domestic markets and communities here at home to address the growing food insecurity people are facing. When will your government announce support for inland fishers, including here in Manitoba, and will you work to ensure that their product, healthy fish, can be provided here at home for people who need it?",
"speaker": "Ms. Niki Ashton"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we know that COVID-19 is having extreme impacts on northern first nations communities, especially with regard to fisheries in areas that rely on it for not only their livelihoods but also for the cultural importance. Indigenous harvesters are able to access through the aboriginal financial institutions the $306 million we've put in for support for indigenous small and medium-sized businesses. The funding allows for short-term interest-free loans as well as for non-repayable contributions. We also announced earlier that the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency has made available $15 million in non-repayable support for businesses. We know that there's more that needs to be done to support our first nations communities as well as our harvesters. We're doing everything we can and we will continue to make sure that we address those needs.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bernadette Jordan"
},
{
"content": "I need to interrupt you. We'll now hear from ClaudeDeBellefeuille.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, MadamChair. I don't want to talk about tax cheats. I don't want to talk about the $1billion that the government used to track down tax cheats. I want to ask the minister why she isn't taking this opportunity to learn from countries that are putting an end to tax avoidance in tax havens, a legal but immoral practice in this day and age. Can she explain why she isn't showing leadership by convincing cabinet to change course and eliminate the legal measure known as tax avoidance, which enables companies to avoid paying taxes and put money in tax havens?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, as soon as our government took office in 2015, we made it a priority to crack down on tax cheats. Our government's historic investments of almost $1 billion have ensured that the agency can access the necessary resources for its work. We're already starting to see the results. As I was saying, I established an expert advisory committee to advise us. We've also been working on tightening the rules of the voluntary disclosures program. We've entered into country-by-country agreements that make it possible to share information. We're auditing four countries a year. We're working with the OECD. Currently, over 50 criminal investigations are related to international tax evasion.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "Ms.DeBellefeuille has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, does the minister realize that she's being filmed and recorded and that she isn't answering my question? I don't want to talk about cheats. I want to talk about companies that use a legal mechanism to avoid paying taxes and to put their money in tax havens. I can see that she doesn't want to answer my question. I'll ask her another question. Can she tell me how many companies legally take advantage of tax avoidance in tax havens? How much money escapes taxation through this legal mechanism? The government could invest this money in its economic recovery post-COVID-19.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I completely understand my colleague's impatience. However, she must understand that this type of issue is very complex. Under the former Conservative government, the issue wasn't a priority at all. Regarding tax evasion abroad, our leadership made it possible for the agency to conduct twice as many audits in three years as it conducted in 10 years under the Conservatives. Over 50criminal investigations related to international tax evasion are ongoing.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead, Madame DeBellefeuille.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I'm not impatient. However, I don't understand the government's lack of willingness to eliminate this mechanism, which is legal but completely immoral. Our questions remain unanswered. My next question is for the Minister of Finance. The Fdration de la relve agricole du Qubec and the UPA approached the Minister of Finance two weeks ago and still haven't received a response regarding the following issue. We know that many farms don't pay wages. As a result, these farms are being penalized because they aren't eligible for the $40,000 in loans available through the Canada emergency business account. To qualify for these loans, the farms needed a payroll of $20,000 to $1.5million in 2019. Does the Minister of Finance plan to respond to the farmers who want to access the $40,000 in loans?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Ms.DeBellefeuille. We know that the Canada emergency response benefit must be made available to the people who need it.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "On a point of order",
"speaker": "Mr. Damien Kurek"
},
{
"content": "That's why we're considering our approach. Of course",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "I have a point of order.",
"speaker": "Mr. Damien Kurek"
},
{
"content": "MinisterMorneau, please wait a moment. A member is raising a point of order. Mr. Kurek, do you have a point of order? You have to unmute yourself.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Yes. It's that the translation is at the same volume as the minister.",
"speaker": "Mr. Damien Kurek"
},
{
"content": "You'll have to put yourself on English. Rather, the minister has to put himself on French.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Sorry. I was on the English channel. We know that the people who need the Canada emergency response benefit must have access to it. That's why we're considering the challenges each time. If I receive a letter, I'll look at it. Once we have a response, we'll pass it directly on to the member.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "The next question will go to Mr. Richards.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "This question is for the tourism minister. The tourism ministry was one of the first and hardest-hit industries during this crisis, yet despite the Prime Minister's announcement over three weeks ago now of a plan to bring forward a tourism-specific aid package to help the businesses who employ millions of unemployed Canadians who work in tourism, there's still been nothing from this government. When will the government finally act to provide help to this nearly crippled industry?",
"speaker": "Mr. Blake Richards (BanffAirdrie, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, obviously we know that the tourism sector has been deeply impacted. I had the chance to talk to many of the leaders in the sector, and clearly there's a lot of anxiety. We also had the chance to work with all the G20 ministers of tourism all together, and we know we have to act",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly (Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go back to Mr. Richards.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I didn't really get much of an answer there. I hear a lot about talking and not much on action. Tourism-based communities like the ones in Banff and Canmore, which I represent, are tourism-based economies and have unemployment rates of 85% or higher. They also don't qualify for a lot of the programs because they're seasonal businesses and make most or all of their revenues for the year from May to October, so they're at risk of losing their entire season. I have a couple of very specific questions. Will the government consider making changes to the programs to make sure that seasonal businesses can get help? What does the government plan to do to help the tourism industry recover after the pandemic?",
"speaker": "Mr. Blake Richards"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Obviously, the tourism sector has access to many measures, including the CEBA account, the $40,000 account. They also have access to the wage subsidy. They have access to rent relief. They will be having access also to funding through the regional development agencies, and we'll be coming up with the details soon. Of course, in my colleague's riding of Banff, which is a fantastic place and a tourism gem, they will have access to the support through WD, western economic diversification. If there are particular cases you would like to raise with me, I would be more than happy to talk to you to see how, on the ground, we can help the tourism operators.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, clearly the tourism minister hasn't been listening. She says she's talking to the industry. She's not hearing their concerns. What she just said does not address many of the concerns they have about being seasonal industries. It doesn't address anything about their concerns about the hard economic recovery they'll have after the pandemic. Let's try another minister and see if we can get some answers. Another industry that's very hard hit in my province and my riding is the oil and gas industry. It's another industry the Prime Minister has promised to help, but there hasn't been anything. Clearly there's a pattern here. The only so-called assistance there's been to help hurting Albertans in the oil patch has been measures to speed up the death of the industry that they work in. Will the Liberal government ever show any concern for Albertans? Will they bring forward a plan to preserve Canadian jobs? Will they put forward a plan to ensure the use of Canadian oil before oil coming in from places like Saudi Arabia?",
"speaker": "Mr. Blake Richards"
},
{
"content": "In fact, Mr. Chair, the federal government has taken several steps in recent weeks that will meaningfully support workers and communities that depend on this industry. We have the Canada emergency wage subsidy, which covers 75% of an employee's wages for the employer. We have more liquidity for oil and gas companies through new loans of $15 million to $60 million from the Business Development Bank of Canada. We continue to step forward in our response to the impacts of COVID-19 on my province here in Newfoundland and Labrador and on Alberta and Saskatchewan. These three provinces are being hit by two crises at the same time, a crisis of demand for oil and gas on the world markets and of course a crisis of public health with COVID-19.",
"speaker": "Hon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Natural Resources)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, a lot of these things we're hearing about aren't going to actually help the industry to recover. What we need to see is the government give the industry and the private sector the opportunity to succeed. Maybe what they could do is consider expediting the approval of billions of dollars of private sector projects that would put thousands and thousands of Canadians back to work. Will the government consider looking at ways that we can expedite projects? Will they look at ways that we can encourage the use of Canadian oil before the use of oil coming in from places like Saudi Arabia?",
"speaker": "Mr. Blake Richards"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have been working with our provincial partners. We have been working with businesses of all sizes in the oil and gas industry. We have been working with labour, concentrating on workers and concentrating on the companies that support those jobs to make sure that they remain whole and those jobs will be there for those workers. We're particularly proud of our orphan wells program, which was launched by the Alberta government in conjunction with us. It was launched last week. I am pleased to inform this House that the uptake on applications for that program is significantly higher than even we expected.",
"speaker": "Hon. Seamus O'Regan"
},
{
"content": "That's all the time we have for questions today. I want to thank all the members for taking part. The committee stands adjourned until tomorrow at noon. The committee stands adjourned until tomorrow at noon. Thank you.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
}
] |
covid_3 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"7"
]
],
"topic": "Presentation of petitions"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"8",
"43"
]
],
"topic": "Statements of members"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"44",
"97"
]
],
"topic": "Economic update and systemic racism"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"98",
"134"
]
],
"topic": "China-related topics"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"135",
"196"
]
],
"topic": "Finance and veterans"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"197",
"216"
]
],
"topic": "Budget and the disabilities"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"217",
"236"
]
],
"topic": "Environment, business affairs and race-based data"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"237",
"320"
]
],
"topic": "Employment and work safety"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This was meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVD-19 Pandemic. Firstly, members were given the chance to present their petitions. Secondly, the meeting proceeded to statements by some members. The third part, the major section, was the questioning of ministers. These questions were closely related to the Canadian government and society during the pandemic period. To be more specific, they included economic updates, systemic racism, the impact of international affairs, financial issues, the situation of veterans and the disabled, and employment and work situation nationwide.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The discussion about the questions of minister started with the issue of economic update, and then it turned to discuss the federal support for the provinces. The following topics were systemic racism. Hon. Chrystia Freeland emphasized that systemic racism had existed in all federal institutions in Canada.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the economic update and systemic racism.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"97"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Christine Normandin mentioned that in the past it took a long time for the provinces to negotiate conditions with the federal government. Christine Normandin wanted to know the future situation: whether the federal government would send the money unconditionally.",
"query": "What did Christine Normandin think about federal support for the provinces?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"71",
"79"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland stated that there had existed racism in Canada. Systemic racism had existed in all federal institutions, including the RCMP.",
"query": "What did Hon. Chrystia Freeland think about systemic racism?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"81",
"90"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "This part mainly discussed a number of financial questions happening during the pandemic. Those involved the foreign businessmen, veterans, and rural communities, project to widen the road. There followed a series of detailed questions and answers about veterans' compensation and pension.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about finance and veterans.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"135",
"196"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Bill Blair, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, stated that the priority must be the protection of the health and safety of Canadians, and restrictions for non-essential travel, and a 14-day quarantine was required for those who had an essential purpose.",
"query": "What did the minister think about foreign businessmen in Canada when talking about finance and security?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"135",
"138"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay assured that everyone was welcome to enter the discussion to provide as appropriate compensation as possible. On the other side, it represented democracy.",
"query": "What did Hon. Lawrence MacAulay think about the public debate about policies and programs that affect veterans and their families?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"163",
"181"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Dane Lloyd asked about the budget given by the government in the economic recession, This was to table an economic update and provide jobs. As for the disabilities, Louise Chabot pointed to the bill regarding the disabilities and why it was not passed.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the budget and the disabilities.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"197",
"216"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The government let people who lived with substance use to access medications more easily. Safe injection sites had been made in communities and community-based projects had been supported for people who were using substances.",
"query": "What would Canadian government do to save the lives of Canadians when talking about the budget and the disabilities?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"204",
"205"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen mentioned that the government had announced a one-time of $600 for persons with disabilities to address the expense in need. However, this bill was refused by the Conservatives yet it was expected to be passed in one day.",
"query": "What did Hon. Ahmed Hussen think about the bill for the disabilities?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"207",
"215"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "This section firstly pointed at the employment issues faced during the pandemic. Next, the topic turned to the emergency wage subsidy that was supporting over a 2.5million workers. The meeting grouped workers in different sectors and discussed them step by step. The listed groups included the students, foreign workers, health care workers, forestry workers, and workers in the oil and gas sector.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about employment and workers' safety.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"237",
"320"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen appreciated the work of the summer jobs program which can provide both financial resources and necessary experience for young people. Thus the investment of the Canada summer jobs problem would be continued.",
"query": "What did Hon. Ahmed Hussen think about the summer jobs program when talking about Employment and workers' safety?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"243",
"246"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "A made-in-Canada initiative had engaged companies across Canada and they had retooled and scaled up their operations for personal protective equipment. This assisted front-line health care workers.",
"query": "How did the Canadian government source much-needed PPE?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"250",
"255"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. A reminder to all members that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connected to the video conference. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you that, when speaking, you should be on the same channel as the language you are speaking. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. I understand we don't have any ministerial announcements today, so we'll proceed to presenting petitions. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The first petition will be presented by Ms.May.",
"speaker": "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.))"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's an honour to rise in meeting number 22 of the COVID-19 committee, otherwise known as something like the House of Commons. I'm here to present two petitions containing hundreds of signatures on the issue of the treatment of Falun Gong practitioners by the People's Republic of China, particularly the practice that's alleged of involuntary organ harvesting. The petitioners ask the Government of Canada to condemn this practice and to publicly call for an end to the persecution of Falun Gong in the People's Republic of China. The second petition is from residents throughout SaanichGulf Islands concerned about what was, at the time this petition was submitted, a future problem. It remains an issue, and I present it on behalf of petitioners who wish the Government of Canada not to put public funds into purchasing or maintaining the Trans Mountain pipeline or towards any expansion of the pipeline.",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP)"
},
{
"content": "Next we'll go to Ms. Kwan.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I rise to table two petitions. The first petition deals with the COVID-19 situation. The petitioners note the pandemic is having a devastating impact on many Canadians nationwide, especially those who have low to modest income, small business gig workers, freelancers, artists, film industry workers, non-salaried workers and individuals on fixed incomes such as seniors and those on disability. It further notes that rent, mortgage and utility payments are due at the end of each month, putting countless Canadians at risk of losing their housing. It is paramount there be safe self-isolation opportunities for all individuals in this country. To that end, the petitioners are calling for the government to immediately enact a nationwide rent freeze, eviction freeze, mortgage freeze and utility freeze, enforce mortgage deferrals for homeowners without penalty or interest charges from financial institutions and provide direct assistance in the form of a monthly, universal, direct payment of $2,000 per month for all, with an additional $250 per child immediately. The second petition deals with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. These petitioners join the hundreds of thousands of people who are opposed to the expansion. Trans Mountain, in building the pipeline, brings massive environmental and economic risk with no substantial benefit to British Columbia or to local residents. Approximately 40,000 barrels of oil have already leaked from existing Kinder Morgan pipelines, including two major spills in Burnaby since 2007. I might note, Mr. Chair, that just this past weekend there was yet another spill to the tune of 1,195 barrels here in British Columbia. There is no known scientific technology to clean up the bitumen when there is a spill, and the number of tankers would go from eight to 34 per month into the Burrard Inlet. It puts at risk many residential neighbourhoods and the traditional territories of at least 15 first nations.",
"speaker": "Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "May I interrupt for a moment, Ms. Kwan. I want to remind all members in the House that when presenting a petition, the idea is to be as concise as possible. Ms. Kwan, I'll let you wrap up, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. The petitioners are calling for the government to immediately act to prevent this new oil pipeline from proceeding through British Columbia.",
"speaker": "Ms. Jenny Kwan"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We'll now go to Mr. Genuis.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I have four petitions to present today. The first petition reflects the outrage of my constituents at the ever-expanding order in council from the government banning more and more firearms. In particular, the petitioners highlight the failure of the government to act on the issue of illegal guns. The petitioners note that virtually all violent crimes committed in Canada, including the recent shooting in Nova Scotia, involve illegal firearms in the hands of those who are already not permitted to possess them. The petition has two asks. First of all, it asks that we reverse the order in council banning certain firearms, but also that we propose measures that will effectively address the illegal use of firearms by criminals while respecting the rights of law-abiding citizens. It also asks that we ensure that substantial changes to firearms laws in future actually be made by Parliament, not by the government acting in an unaccountable manner. The second petition deals with Bill C-8, which is the government's bill around conversion therapy. The petitioners support efforts to ban conversion therapy. They express concern about problems in the wording of the definition used in the legislation. They're asking the government to support amendments to fix the definition to address the issue of conversion therapy and ensure that the definition is correct and doesn't criminalize certain forms of counselling that individuals may voluntarily enter into. The third petition is regarding Bill S-204, a bill in the Senate that seeks to make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad to receive an organ without consent, dealing especially with the horrific practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking in China. The petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204 and want to see it move forward. The final petition is with respect to Bill C-7. There's been much discussion in this House about the need to do better in terms of long-term care. Rather than working to do better in long-term care, unfortunately we've seen the government removing vital safeguards in the area of euthanasia. I think our focus should be on assisting life rather than removing safeguards that are required in association with the euthanasia regime. The petitioners are particularly concerned about the government's plan to remove a 10-day reflection period that normally takes place. That period can already be waived under certain circumstances, but Bill C-7 proposes to remove it entirely as well as reduce the number of witnesses involved. The petitioners are quite concerned about what's going on in Bill C-7 and call for it to be stopped or amended.",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Presenting petitions. We'll proceed to statements by members. We'll start off with Mr. Manly.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are in the midst of a global pandemic and an economic shock. Recent events have ripped open the wound of systemic racism in our country. Racialized and marginalized communities have been disproportionally affected by the pandemic. Thousands of seniors in long-term care facilities have died. It is clear that we need system change. In the past, governments have bailed out banks and corporations because they were too big to fail. It is time to bail out humanity and the planet. No one will be immune from the threat of climate change and mass extinction. Both are the result of the exploitation of the natural world in the name of the economy. Humans created the economy. We can choose to change it. We must protect our environment or perish. COVID-19 has demonstrated that together we can take courageous action for the common good. We need to do the same for the climate crisis, because humanity and our planet are too big to fail.",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Spengemann.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Speaker, today marks World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. Underestimated and under-reported, elder abuse exists across the world. At risk of neglect and assault, many of the most vulnerable older persons reside in our long-term care facilities. They are the seniors who have built our country and shaped our communities, who have shown us resilience, courage and selflessness, who have made us stronger, and whose work and teachings continue to inspire us. They are parents and grandparents, brothers and sisters, friends and mentors. We have not been there for them in the same way they've been there for us throughout their lives. The Canadian Forces report, alongside the climbing disproportionate death toll in our long-term care facilities, has reconfirmed the ugly, indefensible reality of elder abuse and neglect in Canada. In my community, we mourn the deaths of 68 seniors from one long-term care facility alone, Camilla Care. We must make the same unwavering commitment to older persons as they have shown to us. We must protect and uphold their human rights. We must do better.",
"speaker": "Mr. Sven Spengemann (MississaugaLakeshore, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Before proceeding, I just want to bring up to the members in the background that we want to keep it as simple and as parliamentary as possible in keeping it neutral. We'll now move to Mr. Barrett.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "During these trying times, the residents of LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes have risen to the challenge. They've made sacrifices and gone above and beyond to make the lives of their neighbours better and to keep our communities safe. It would be impossible to list everyone who has emerged as a community hero, but I'd like to highlight a few, like Lily, an eight-year-old from Elgin who raised funds for her local food bank by building and selling squirrel picnic tables, and Louise Boardman from Spencerville who's making masks for long-term care facilities and selling others in support of the Breast Cancer Action centre. The Knights of Columbus in Prescott raised funds and are distributing some $27,000 in support of charitable groups throughout the region. The Knights of Columbus in Kemptville are working overtime operating the local food bank. Who can forget our top-notch health care workers like Hannah and Mary at the Brockville COVID-19 testing centre? It is the people of LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes that make it so great. To everyone working to make a difference and to all of our essential workers, thank you.",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Barrett (LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Next is Mr. Anandasangaree.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Indian Act enshrined racism into Canadian law in 1876, and, through residential schools, the child welfare system, our legal system and our police, we criminalized and tore apart indigenous peoples. The deaths of Chantel Moore and Rodney Levi and the assault on Chief Allan Adam are recent examples of systemic racism within the RCMP. Sadly, the RCMP leadership has failed to acknowledge this reality and its root causes. These same systems negatively impact black Canadians. Anti-black racism has resulted in more young black men being jailed, children being streamed or excluded from schools and negative police interaction due to profiling. Black lives matter. No single Canadian is responsible for the prevalence of systemic racism; we all are. Collectively we build institutions that discriminate based on race. It is now time to reimagine and rework our institutions, starting with our police, to ensure that all Canadians can achieve their truest potential.",
"speaker": "Mr. Gary Anandasangaree (ScarboroughRouge Park, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Ms.Larouche, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. June15 is World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. I want to remind members of the link between abuse and the problems of economic dependency among seniors. Improving their purchasing power means reducing the risk of them falling victim to abusive people. That's why the increase in the old age security benefit and the guaranteed income supplement must be extended beyond the pandemic. In three weeks, our seniors will receive their first cheque, when they should be receiving their second. A date must also be announced for the new horizons for seniors program, which helps several groups develop projects to break the isolation of seniors. In closing, I would like to mention the organization Justice alternative et mdiation that during the pandemic, along with other organizations in Shefford, has set up the project Une histoire pour la tienne, which also serves to mark this day. It's a virtual meeting between young people and seniors, allowing them to exchange some inspiring life experiences. Since age prejudice is very much present, I applaud this project, which aims to make us understand each other better and judge each other less.",
"speaker": "Ms. Andranne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Mr. Sangha.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, in the time of this terrible crisis affecting all Canadians, when we are all thinking about how best to deal with it, let's all think about the people around us. Let's show our representation not only to those in the sector of sanctioned workers, but also to all those Canadians who day by day stand up and make a difference. Every day I am proud of the reactions of Canadians to this crisis. I want to acknowledge and celebrate all the contributions made by the people of Brampton Centre, all religious institutions, civil society and community organizations like Knights Table in my riding. We are all standing together to fight COVID-19. Let's continue working hard with that same spirit to get positive results out. Thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Mr. Ramesh Sangha (Brampton Centre, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "I will proceed to Mr. Ruff.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, whether graduating from elementary school, high school, Georgian College or graduating from colleges or universities across the country, I am proud of the accomplishments of all the graduates across BruceGreyOwen Sound. I would also like to congratulate and thank all the teachers and parents who have adapted to teaching online or from home and who have supported these graduates over the course of their academic careers. I'd like to extend special congratulations to Cameron Lovell, who just graduated from grade eight, as well as to Neebeesh and Neebin Elliott, originally from the Nawash unceded first nation on the Bruce Peninsula, who will be headed to Michigan State University, and to Jared Lumley from Owen Sound, who just graduated from my alma mater, the Royal Military College of Canada. The college motto of Truth, Duty, Valour is something all Canadians should aspire to live by. I wish all the best to these graduates on their next adventures. I and Canada cannot wait to see how their dreams and goals impact and change the world. I congratulate BruceGreyOwen Sound graduates.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alex Ruff (BruceGreyOwen Sound, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr.Cormier.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Today I pay tribute to RichardLosier, an entrepreneur, visionary and builder who died on June9, 2020, surrounded by his family. Mr.Losier is a giant in the Acadian Peninsula business community. In1968, he co-founded St.Isidore Asphalte, a company that now has more than 200employees. He also launched many other businesses over the years. He was unifying and generous, a philanthropist who cared about young people and never missed an opportunity to improve their lives. I met Mr.Losier when I was 14years old, and I can say that he has been a positive influence in my life. Every time I met him, he gave me a lot of advice and encouragement, which I've never forgotten. Mr.Losier's legacy to his community is invaluable. His commitment remains an example for all of us to follow. Mr.Losier now joins his wife, Nolla. I offer my most sincere condolences to his children, Richard Jr., Ronald, Nathalie, Caroline and Stphane, and to his family and friends. Rest in peace, Mr.Losier. You will be greatly missed. Thank you for everything you've done for our region.",
"speaker": "Mr. Serge Cormier (AcadieBathurst, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to Ms. Dabrusin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Hello from my community in east end Toronto. People talk about how a city the size of Toronto can be cold, but that's far from the truth in my community. I want to give a shout-out to our teachers, like Mr. Wong of Earl Grey Senior Public School, who delivered home-baked cookies and handwritten notes to all of his students, or Monsieur Steve, who's offering online French classes, or the teachers of Riverdale Collegiate, who paraded through our streets to celebrate our graduates. Our local Michael Garron Hospital put out a call for community members to sew masks and received over 60,000 masks, including those made by Lisa Tancre of Chartwell Avondale Retirement Residence. Michelle Beaton organized a front window scavenger hunt to entertain children and their families. Restaurants, even while facing adversity, have been generously donating food, like the members of the Leslieville BIA or Mezes. There are so many more stories of generosity that I could share, but I'm out of time. I thank everyone who has stepped up. We all appreciate all of their hard work.",
"speaker": "Ms. Julie Dabrusin (TorontoDanforth, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to Ms. Sahota.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, on Saturday night, Calgarians, particularly those in the northeast, in my riding of Calgary Skyview, witnessed a devastating storm, the likes of which I have not seen in my lifetime. Homes, vehicles, community buildings and structures suffered significant damage due to large hail, floods and high winds. People acted quickly to seek shelter. I'm so grateful that there have been no reports of personal injury or loss of life. I went around the community yesterday to survey the damage. It is extensive. My heart aches for those who have been impacted by the storm in an already incredibly difficult time, but we are resilient. We know that in the coming weeks there will be a lot of cleanup required, both to personal property and in the community. I know my constituents, and we will help one another get through this together. I will work hard to do everything I can to help rebuild this community.",
"speaker": "Ms. Jag Sahota (Calgary Skyview, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Serr, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. I'd like to express my sincere gratitude to the people of West Nippissing who organized Pride activities to celebrate the LGBTQ community in June. This week, we are also celebrating National Public Service Week. I thank the public servants for their dedication to the Nickel Belt community and the Valley East and Rayside-Balfour areas.",
"speaker": "Mr. Marc Serr (Nickel Belt, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Next is Mr. Saroya.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, when COVID-19 began spreading across Ontario, Markham, like many other communities, was unprepared. Our front-line health care workers did not have enough personal protective equipment to do their jobs safely. When Markham residents heard about these shortages, my office was flooded with calls from people who had PPE and wanted to donate. Since then my office has been able to deliver tens of thousands of PPE supplies to front-line health care workers and five masks to each family in need. This pandemic has shown that no matter what the challenge is, the Markham community will overcome it. Today, I would like to thank the front-line health care workers who are doing incredible work. I would also like to thank all those who have helped in Markham's hour of need.",
"speaker": "Mr. Bob Saroya (MarkhamUnionville, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I understand we had a bit of a glitch there. I'm sorry. With the pause, we thought that was the end of it. Mr.Serr, I would ask you to continue. I understand you started to switch languages. Please continue. You have 30seconds.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I'm switching to English now. Thank you to our nurses, doctors, pharmacists, cashiers, janitors. Thank you to various retail workers and first responders dealing with COVID-19. You keep our communities safe and healthy, and you feed us. Your dedication and sacrifice are greatly appreciated. As we start to see local businesses reopen, it is important for all of us to remember to follow best practices outlined by local public health. Our front-line workers deserve our respect. It is important for all of us to respect social distancing, to protect all workers and their families. Together we can remain strong and united as we continue to face this challenge together.",
"speaker": "Mr. Marc Serr"
},
{
"content": "Again, my apologies for skipping over there, but now we'll to to Ms. McLeod.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, in commemoration of Italian Heritage Month, I would like to pay tribute to the Colombo Lodge and Italian Cultural Centre in Kamloops, British Columbia. The Colombo Lodge was founded in 1914 and is an integral part of our community. Recently they began Colombo Cares take-home dinners with proceeds distributed to different non-profit organizations throughout the region. Last month they very generously gave away hundreds of dinners to Royal Inland Hospital staff and paramedics for their tireless work throughout the pandemic. In their own words they say, Colombo Lodge is very proud of the Italians that have made Kamloops their home. Community members of Italian ancestrypast and presenthave helped and continue to help Kamloops prosper as a giving, welcoming and inclusive community. Personally, I want to thank all members for their friendship and generosity over the years. Our community is forever grateful for their kindness.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathy McLeod (KamloopsThompsonCariboo, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now proceed to Mr. Harris.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, many Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are facing a serious financial crisis. Most people with disabilities are waiting to be included in the Liberals' promised program. Fish plant workers will need support to avoid a disastrous year. Many small businesses don't qualify for programs. Municipalities need emergency help to meet the crisis. People are worried about what will happen when the CERB runs out in two weeks' time, and the coming tourism season looks very grim. The province itself is in serious financial crisis due to the pandemic and the decline in oil prices. The federal government must overhaul and enhance the fiscal stabilization program to help Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and other oil-producing provinces through this crisis. Both the province and the oil and gas industry players have committed to net zero emissions by 2050. This is a challenge and an opportunity to transition to a sustainable energy future, but it will require significant investment and support by government to keep the industry strong and make this a just transition for workers. Much has been done. Much more needs to be done.",
"speaker": "Mr. Jack Harris (St. John's East, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Ms.Gaudreau, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, all 44elected municipal officials in the riding of LaurentidesLabelle and I have sent a letter to the government asking that cellular and high-speed Internet networks be made available to all. The crisis has accelerated the demonstration of the need for these networks in daily life. The territorial complexity of the Laurentians means that there are areas where the signal is weak, unstable or non-existent. There is an urgent and essential need to change the infrastructure of the current networks. Also, because of the lockdown, Internet failures are being felt, and they prevent distance learning, telemedicine and teleworking, among other things. How can our municipalities develop economically if they can't provide their community with adequate communication tools? We are therefore calling on the government to put the interests of its people first by investing massively right now in the construction of high-speed Internet and cellular infrastructure.",
"speaker": "Ms. Marie-Hlne Gaudreau (LaurentidesLabelle, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Waugh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I rise today to pay tribute to Sir Winston Churchill, the former prime minister of Great Britain and one of the greatest leaders history has ever known. In what can only be called a lifetime of service, Churchill's contributions to the Commonwealth and to the world are without equal. During the Second World War he led the allied forces in Europe against the tyranny and fascism of Adolph Hitler and his Nazi regime. When our world was in its darkest hour, Churchill's leadership was a beacon of hope and freedom. I am reminded of something he once said, All the greatest things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honour, duty, mercy, hope. Sir Winston Churchill himself embodied all of these great things and will forever be a symbol of freedom, democracy and hope.",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh (SaskatoonGrasswood, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Gerretsen.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I would like to add my voice to the recognition and celebration of Pride Month, which is celebrated annually during June. Pride Month is important for Canadians because we can be proud of who we are and celebrate our diversity. This June is different from previous years as we cannot celebrate in person all together. However, I know the ongoing pandemic will not stop us from showing our love and support for the LGBTQ+ community. To celebrate Pride Month this year, my office distributed 3,000 pride maple leaf pins across the country; whoever asked received one. Although the majority was sent to constituents in my riding, over 500 pins were sent to the neighbouring ridings of LanarkFrontenacKingston, LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, and HastingsLennox and Addington. It warms my heart to see so many Canadians showing their support. Happy Pride, everyone.",
"speaker": "Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings twice to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to substitute for each other safely. Mr.Deltell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I am very pleased to take part in today's meeting of this parliamentary committee. Canada has been dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic for three months now. The situation now seems to be improving, although we must remain vigilant. Economically, business people and the entire Canadian economy depend on government decisions. My question is very simple: when will the economic update take place?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I thank the hon. member for his question. I agree with him that Canada and Canadians are doing an excellent and difficult job in the fight against coronavirus. As for the economy, our government is there for Canadians, for workers and for businesses, and it will continue to be.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "Canadians, business people and businesses want to know where the government is headed. When will the economic update take place?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, Canadians know that the government is there to support them. Eight",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We return to Mr.Deltell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Canadians and Quebeckers also know that the Government of Quebec will table its economic update this week. Why isn't the federal government doing the same?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I'm pleased to explain to hon. members and to Canadians what the government is doing for the economy",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We return to Mr.Deltell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it is a real pleasure for me to explain to the minister and everybody in the House of Commons that today the Saskatchewan government will table its economic update. Why can't Ottawa do that?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "The honourable Deputy Prime Minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm delighted to have the opportunity to share with Canadians what our government is doing to support workers, businesses and the economy. Eight million Canadians have received the CERB, essential support for Canadian workers and their families.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go back to Mr. Deltell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, 11 days ago the Newfoundland government tabled its own economic update. We see governments acting correctly for their people, except for the Liberal government, which cannot table an economic update. When will the Liberal government table an economic update, which Canadians would like to see?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "The honourable Deputy Prime Minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I am delighted to share with the member opposite and with Canadians what we are doing practically that has meaning for Canadians. Let me talk about what we are doing for Canadian businesses. Nearly 670,000 Canadian businesses have received support",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Deltell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "In Canada, the Quebec government will table its economic update this week. The Saskatchewan government tabled its economic update today. The Newfoundland government has tabled its economic update. Everybody is working hard in Canada, and the business community would like to know where the Liberal government is going. The question is crystal clear. When will the Liberal government table an economic update?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "The honourable Deputy Prime Minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Canadian workers and Canadian businesses want to know that our government is here to support them. I have shared with this House our support for Canadian workers through the CERB. I've spoken about the CEBA, and let me point out that more than $26 billion of support has been given through that essential program. Let me talk about the wage subsidy. More than 2.6 million",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll return to Mr. Deltell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, this is starting to get interesting; the minister is revealing some of these expenses. Could the minister tell us how much the government has spent in the last three months?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I will continue in French by explaining what our government is doing for Canadians and workers",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Deltell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this is a little bit concerning for all Canadians, because this government cannot say when they will table the economic update, cannot identify how much money they have spent in the last three months and cannot say what is the deficit of Canada. Is somebody in this government running this country correctly?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, absolutely we are running this country, and we are supporting our economy. In fact, we appreciate that Canada currently is experiencing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. That is why we have devoted nearly 11% of GDP to support Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. I want to assure Canadians",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Ms.Normandin. Ms.Normandin, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, there are times when Quebec and the provinces are not just two solitudes, but they get along and speak as one, such as when the time comes to tell the government to mind its own business. On reading section91 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which sets out the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government, nowhere do I find that the federal government must meddle by attaching conditions to health transfers. It is Quebec and the provinces that hire the medical personnel, doctors, nurses and caretakers. It is Quebec and the provinces that are responsible for purchasing the necessary equipment. It is Quebec and the provinces that know what is happening on the ground and what their needs are. Will the government do the only thing within its authority, which is to take the cheque, sign it and put it in the mail?",
"speaker": "Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I thank the hon. member for her question. We fully understand the importance of federal support for the provinces, especially in our national fight against the coronavirus. I agree with the hon. member that we must give financial support to the provinces, including Quebec absolutely. I would also like to point out the importance of the support of the Canadian Armed Forces, who are doing an important and excellent job in Quebec and Ontario today, right now.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I am glad to see that there is recognition of the importance of transferring this money. My question is whether it can be transferred unconditionally; that's what I'm asking. There's a state of emergency. In the past, we have seen that it takes a long time to negotiate conditions with the federal government. We saw it in the case of the Quebec City tramway, and we are still seeing it now in the case of transfers for housing in Quebec, for which there is no agreement and, therefore, no transfer of money. Will the federal government send the money free of conditions?",
"speaker": "Ms. Christine Normandin"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the hon. member said in her first question that the only thing the federal government had to do on health care was to sign the cheques. I can't agree because, today, at this time, at the request of the Premier of Quebec, the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces are in Quebec today; they're there to save the lives of seniors",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We now return to Ms.Normandin.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "It was indeed at Quebec's request. What I'm saying is that, at present, the provinces are unanimously asking that there be no conditions. It's urgent that the money be transferred. The federal government's job here is to sign the cheque and send it to the provinces. The government's job is also to make Parliament work. This is where there should be negotiations so that we can work, among other things, to send money to people living with disabilities, to make sure we fight CERB fraud and to make sure that court time limits are effective in the current crisis. Can the government focus on the issue in order to respect the provinces and transfer money for health care?",
"speaker": "Ms. Christine Normandin"
},
{
"content": "I thank the hon. member for her question, Mr.Chair. I agree with the hon. member that the women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces are in Quebec today at the request of the Province of Quebec. That said, I hope that the hon. member will agree with me that being there for Quebec's seniors, that saving the lives of Quebec's seniors, is much more than simply signing cheques. I am very proud of the work the women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces are doing. I think we all should thank these people who are working for Canada, for Quebec, and who are doing an important and excellent job.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I think the Deputy Prime Minister misunderstood me when I was talking about the importance of acting quickly. Negotiations between the government and the provinces take an awfully long time because the federal government decides to place conditions where there shouldn't be any. Right now, the only important thing is to transfer the money quickly so that it can be used in our hospitals and our long-term care facilities, where the need is desperate. Quebec and the provinces know exactly what their needs are.",
"speaker": "Ms. Christine Normandin"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I would like to point out the extent to which the federal government is there to support the provinces, including Quebec. We have increased funding to the provinces and territories by $500million to help them prepare for COVID-19 outbreaks. This funding is in addition to the $40billion that we already provide annually to the provinces and territories. That's a lot of money. It is strong endorsement",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, systemic racism is killing people. It's killing black people and it's killing indigenous people. Recently, Rodney Levi was another victim of systemic racism. He was killed in New Brunswick by the RCMP. To deal with systemic racism, we need systemic change. Will the Liberal government commit to systemic change so that not another life is ever taken again?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I thank the member opposite for the extremely important question, and I'll take this opportunity to acknowledge the work that he has done for many years fighting racism in Canada. Our government absolutely acknowledges that systemic racism exists in Canada. It exists in all of our institutions, including the police and the RCMP. I agree with the member opposite that now is the moment to fight this",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I thank the Deputy Prime Minister very much for the response, but there are some specific actions we need to take. There are movements. Black Lives Matter, as a movement, is calling for the defunding of police. What they're saying is we need to make better choices with how money is being spent. When someone is in need of a wellness check or a mental health check, money, financing and support should go to mental health workers and health care workers, not the police. Is the government prepared to fund and prioritize health care workers over the police?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the member quite rightly began his questions by speaking about systemic racism against indigenous people in Canada, and I would like to speak about that for a moment. I spoke to Perry Bellegarde this morning, because it is such a crucial issue. We can describe it as the original sin of our country. I absolutely agree that we need root and branch reform, including in how policing is done in Canada.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, will the Liberal government commit to a review of the use of force as outlined for the RCMP? Will the Liberals commit to that change?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Public Safety had many conversations last week with the RCMP. We all accept that",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, will the government commit to ensuring that de-escalation receives priority?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Let me continue, Mr. Chair. Systemic racism exists in all of our federal institutions, including the RCMP. It's time to put an end to it. Let me just say",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm not getting an answer. Will the Prime Minister or the Liberal government commit to something simple and ensure that at the federal level, racial profiling, street checks and carding are expressly prohibited?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, sadly, I can't agree that rooting out systemic racism is going to be simple, but I can agree that racial profiling is absolutely inappropriate. It is not something that we should",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Well, I'm going to try to get another commitment from the government, because they don't seem able to commit to something as clear as ending racial profiling. We know that millions of Canadians in a couple of weeks are going to be faced with the reality of their CERB ending. These families are worried about how they're going to put food on the table, because they can't return to a job. Will the Liberal government commit today so that those families will have some concrete support, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let me be clear, as I was in my previous answer, that our government clearly is opposed to racial profiling. This is a wrong practice and we're very clear about our position there. Now when it comes to the CERB, I absolutely share the concern of the member opposite. The Canadian economy is in its direst state since the Great Depression. We know that all the jobs have not yet come back. We know that Canadian workers, Canadian families, continue to need",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll now pause for a short time to allow staff to change within the safety parameters for the COVID-19 virus, and as we resume, we will go to Ms. Harder.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister has mandated his ministers, and I quote, to govern in a positive, open and collaborative way. Ironically, as it stands, Parliament is currently closed for business. Opposition parties have little opportunity to hold the ruling party to account, private members' bills cannot be tabled and legislation cannot be debated. Can the Prime Minister, Mr. Trudeau himself, help us understand how all of this fits into his definition of so-called open government?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Well, Mr. Chair, we're here, right? We're here, and the opposition is asking questions. They have the equivalent of eight question periods instead of five to ask questions. They have more time than before, so I don't know why they're not happy about it.",
"speaker": "The Honourable Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons)"
},
{
"content": "That's like when I'm asking for a full meal and your handing me a few jellybeans and saying, Why aren't you happy with that? Mr. Chair, here's the thing. It's like switching a light on and off when it's convenient for the Prime Minister and for the Liberal Party. That's what they want to do here. That's not Parliament. That's not democracy. When will Mr. Trudeau do the right thing, turn the lights on and get back to work for Canadians?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "I'm really sorry to hear that my colleague's not working. I can assure you, Mr. Chair, on this side of the House, we're all actually working very hard and we're answering the questions from the opposition. Why? It's because it's extremely important. I sat there for seven years asking questions. I understand important",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "The member opposite knows very well that he is misleading the Canadian public. This is not true Parliament. This is simply a special committee. Here's the thing. On the Liberal Party website, under the platform commitment, it says that Parliament works best when its members are free to do what they have been elected to do, and that is be the voice for their communities and hold the government to account. This is a Liberal document. Did the Prime Minister forget that strengthening Parliament was part of his 2019 platform commitment?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for quoting our excellent platform. That was a very very good document. The thing is, I think we've reached a balance whereby MPs can come from different places, mostly around Ottawa, and ask questions; but also we can have colleagues from across the country asking questions. Why does my colleague think it is better to have only 35 MPs participating instead of 338?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Does the Prime Minister value democracy, or does he still look up to China's basic dictatorship?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we're answering all the questions from the opposition, not only from the people in this room, but we're answering",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "It's back to Ms. Harder now.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I'll ask the question again. Does the Prime Minister still value the basic dictatorship of China over Canada's democracy?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "I don't know where the colleague wants to go from here, Mr. Chair. I'd like to know from her why it is not important to her that her colleagues participate directly.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Trudeau wrote to his ministers and said to them that they continue to raise the bar on openness, effectiveness and transparency. He went on to explain that This means...government that is open by default. We now have a parliament that is currently shut down. Mr. Trudeau has shut it down and has prevented us from being able to do to the good work that Canadians expect us to do. Is this Mr. Trudeau's idea of open by default?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, do they want to talk about shutting down Parliament? How about the time they prorogued Parliament twicenot only once, but twice? The Conservative government shut down Parliament twice. I was here. I was sitting on the other side of the aisle. It's quite the opposite now. We're taking all the questions. This place is open, and we're answering questions.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "One moment, please. I haven't acknowledged you yet, Ms. Harder. We've stopped the time there. I want to remind honourable members that questions and answers are being given, and we want to hear both sides. Please keep the heckling down. Ms. Harder, please proceed.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "In 2014, the leader of the Liberal Party developed a policy resolution entitled Restoring Trust in Canada's Democracy. That's ironic, because right now, again, Parliament is currently shut down. We are prevented from being able to do the good work that we are expected to do. At the time, the Prime Minister said, Canadians want their Members of Parliament to be effective voices for their communities in Ottawa, and not merely mouthpieces in their communities for an all-too-powerful Prime Minister. Sadly, Mr. Trudeau has become the all-too-powerful prime minister that he once believed should not exist. Why did he change his mind?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'd like to know why my colleague wants to shut down the voices of her colleagues who could not speak and could not participate in this room. Mr. Chair, how would we vote on private members' bills, for example? As you know, it is not a government vote or a party vote; it's per row. You want to come back? Are you going to acceptMr. Chair, through youthat we have electronic voting, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "We'll go on to Mr. Genuis.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we know that the Minister of Foreign Affairs has champagne tastes and London flats, but it's his champagne mortgages that Canadians are concerned about. Specifically, why did the minister only disclose the complete extent of his personal debt to the Chinese government on June 4 of this year?",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as you know, since the minister entered politics, his two mortgages and other liabilities and assets have been fully disclosed to the Ethics Commissioner and placed on the online public registry. It's public, Mr. Chair. It's public.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Now it's public and it's terrible. When will the foreign affairs minister be here to answer these questions himself?",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's always been public. We're in the middle of a pandemic here, trying to help Canadians, and the best they can do is ask questions about",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Genuis.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "When the minister owes over a million dollars to the Chinese government, people have a right to ask him questions. When will the Minister of Foreign Affairs show up?",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "The minister shows up every day, Mr. Chair. He shows up and works for Canadians. Once again, those are public documents. Everything the minister did is public. I still don't know why they ask",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go back to Mr. Genuis.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, he doesn't even have to come to the House. All he has to do is appear on the screen. Where is the minister? Why is he hiding? Why won't he answer questions about his personal debt to the Chinese government?",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, if he goes online he's going to get the information.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the minister is hiding. Let's ask some specific questions about their China policy. What is the impact on the decision-making? Three-quarters of Canadians don't want Huawei involved in our 5G network. Will the minister put the interests of Canadians ahead of the interests of his creditors and say no to Huawei?",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, when it comes to 5G deployment, we are right now currently undergoing a comprehensive review. We have been absolutely clear with allies and with Canadians that we never have and never will compromise Canadians' national interests.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains (Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, that is not an answer, and it is completely out of step with what our allies have already recognized. Reports are emerging of multiple deadly viruses exported from Winnipeg's microbiology laboratory to the Wuhan Institute of Virology right before scientists were expelled for policy breaches. In spite of that, scientific co-operation between Canadian institutions and the military-affiliated Wuhan Institute of Virology is continuing. Why hasn't the government put in place new guidelines to prevent the export of sensitive pathogens and information to China?",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, he's right that in 2019 the National Microbiology Laboratory shared lab samples with the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The National Microbiology Laboratory routinely shares samples with other labs to help advance the international community's understanding of viruses and the research that is ongoing around those viruses. There are strict protocols in place for these transfers, and these samples were transported according to Canadian laws and regulations.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I think Canadians would be concerned to hear that it's routine to transport viruses to Chinese military-affiliated labs. When Champagne was the parliamentary secretary for finance, the government decided to give hundreds of millions of dollars to the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, bankrolling Chinese state-controlled development projects in Asia with weak standards in labour, human rights and environment. Will the minister put Canadian taxpayers ahead of his personal creditors and support a pullout from the Communist Party-controlled development bank?",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "Once again, Mr. Chair, my colleague is trying to connect the dots, and I don't know exactly where he is going from here, but everything is public. There's a thing called Google. He can go on it and check the information.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the public can listen to this. I'm sure this exchange will also be available on Google, and the public can draw their own conclusions. We have failures on 5G, failures when it comes to the transport of deadly viruses and failures when it comes to giving over $400 million to the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. It's clear that the Bank of China's investment in Minister Champagne is paying off. It's time for the minister to settle his debt with the Communist government and not settle it on the backs of Canadians. When will the minister be here in the House and answer questions about this mortgage?",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "My colleague should be cautious with what he is saying in the House, Mr. Chair. This is serious stuff. He should be careful about what he says. The minister is actually working extremely hard for all Canadians and is doing his job correctly, Mr. Chair. We're talking about public information. Once again, let him go to Google and google it. That's it.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Now we'll go to Mr. Barrett.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Canada's ambassador to the United Nations sent a letter last week to all member states of the UN promising that Canada would consider providing more funding for UNRRA, the same UNRRA that is a front for Hamas, which allows weapons of terror to be stored in schools and provides textbooks that call for the destruction of Israel. Do these Liberals have no shame when it comes to their quest for a seat on the UN Security Council?",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Barrett"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the honourable member for that question. We know that at this time Canada must show leadership in the face of global challenges. More than ever, Canada is playing a positive role by being a champion in diversity and inclusion, supporting the global fight against COVID-19, addressing climate change, leading peace and security efforts and helping the most vulnerable. A seat on the Security Council will allow Canada to be a strong voice for a fairer, more inclusive and prosperous",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Barrett.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I received a letter from Bob Anderson this week, who's advocating for his neighbours like Jean Grevelding, who owns a cottage at Butternut Bay. Like many people, Jean is an American who owns a property on our side of the border. These people are taxpaying members of our communities. These folks have plans in place to follow all Canadian quarantine rules. They're concerned about leaving their properties uncared for over the summer. Will folks like Jean be allowed to cross the border to check on their properties this summer?",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Barrett"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Of course, our priority is and always has been and always must be the protection of the health and safety of Canadians. That's why we put in place these restrictions for non-essential travel and have required, through the Public Health Agency of Canada, a 14-day quarantine. I don't know the specifics of the person for whom you advocate, but we want to make sure that if they come into Canada, it is for an essential purpose and that they do it safely and respect the quarantine that has been put in place.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness)"
},
{
"content": "With nine branches throughout my riding, the Royal Canadian Legion offers a great deal to veterans and rural communities alike. They have been experiencing hardship and a loss of revenue, to the point where they may be forced to shut their doors. The Zone G2 commander and local mayors such as Roger Haley have reached out to me expressing their dire need. Will the government offer support to Legions across the country so they can continue to carry out their vital work for our veterans?",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Barrett"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Yes, we have done a lot to help support groups like the Legions. There is a $350-million emergency community support fund. If they're supplying any help to people regarding COVID, this fund is there. Indeed, we're doing everything we can to make sure that we help the Legions and other groups that do so much to help veterans right across the country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Veterans Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "On May 21, the minister stated that her team was working as quickly as it could to fill the gaps in CEBA. It has now been three weeks, and many business owners, such as mortgage broker Corinna Smith-Gatcke, are still left in the lurch amid the delays, which are pushing businesses closer to shutting their doors for good. Will these businesses have access to CEBA before it's too late for them?",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Barrett"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the honourable member for that really important question on our Canadian small businesses. Those businesses can absolutely have access to the loan at their financial institution this Friday, and I would encourage them to go and see their bank or credit union. I want businesses to know that nothing is more important for us than making sure they get the support they need during this difficult time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "The County Road 43 expansion project is critical for my riding and the region as a whole. This project will widen the road, increasing safety for the 18,000 motorists who travel the road every day. It's been 334 days since the provincial and local governments announced funding, but there has been nothing from this Liberal government. It's been 181 days since Minister McKenna told me her staff were reviewing the project. Today, there is still nothing, and for the last month the minister's team has not even found the time to respond to my request for an update. Will Minister McKenna finally stop with the delays and commit to funding this project today?",
"speaker": "Mr. Michael Barrett"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as the member opposite knows, we work with provinces and territories to advance our infrastructure investments. We're making investments across the country. They are making a real difference in people's lives. We're always happy to work with members of Parliament, but they must also work with provinces and territories so that projects are advanced by them to our office.",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna (Minister of Infrastructure and Communities)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Mrs. Wagantall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Through you, has Mr. MacAulay read ombudsman Dalton's May 2020 report, Financial Compensation for Canadian Veterans: A comparative analysis of benefit regimes?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall (YorktonMelville, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I apologize, but I'll have to ask my honourable colleague to repeat the question.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "Mrs. Wagantall, we'll freeze the time so that there's no extra time taken.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. My question was whether Mr. MacAulay has read ombudsman Dalton's May 2020 report, Financial Compensation for Canadian Veterans: A comparative analysis of benefit regimes.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate my honourable colleague's question. Of course, I appreciate Mr. Dalton's input and all that he has done for veterans. We've discussed it many times. I've done everything and worked with him in order to make sure that we bring the proper compensation to veterans",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mrs. Wagantall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "As a result of that study, are the financial outcomes Canada seeks to provide for ill and injured veterans now clearly defined within the Department of Veterans Affairs?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as the member would know, I am to bring a report to the veterans affairs committee, and there are a number of things done in order to make sure that report is",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mrs. Wagantall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Then I would suggest that we get our committee up and going as it should be. Where are these financial directions published?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Well, of course, lockdown, but just under $90 million that the government put in supplementary estimates to make sure we address the backlog for Veterans Affairs. It's a major help",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mrs. Wagantall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Minister, are Canadian Armed Forces members provided with a copy of this document?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, my honourable colleague would have to ask the Canadian Armed Forces that question.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "There are three different providing lifetime benefits for ill and injured veterans. In Ombudsman Dalton's recent report, did any one of these three provide the best compensation in all nine scenarios that were studied?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Of course, as she knows, there's been a lot of work done in order to make sure that we provide the proper compensation to veterans. We're working very hard, with a lot of help from Mr. Dalton, to make sure that the appropriate",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Mrs. Wagantall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "In the undisclosed settlement of Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says ...Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statement?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracy",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorry",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.",
"speaker": "Ms. Andranne Larouche"
},
{
"content": "We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I have English.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you have?",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I have English, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms.Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakers?",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.",
"speaker": "Ms. Andranne Larouche"
},
{
"content": "In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more? I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "On a point of order, quite often while I'm trying to speak, there are lots of other voices in the background.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "I would ask everyone to please be on mute, as well as for anyone in the chamber to please refrain from speaking loudly. Just whisper among yourselves if you have something to say. We'll take this one from the top. We have a minute and 45 seconds left. Ms. Wagantall, please proceed with your next question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "You said next question, so we're not going backwards, Chair?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Did we have an answer from Minister MacAulay? No? We'll go to Minister MacAulay to finish up the answer. We'll start at 27 seconds, freeze the clock and hear his answer. Then, because of all of the confusion, we'll start at one minute and 45 seconds when we get going again.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Should I repeat the question, sir?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Please do. The clock is frozen. After we go through the question and the answer, we'll start the clock again. Mr. Wagantall, please repeat the question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. In the undisclosed settlement to Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says, Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statement?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question and concern. Of course I agree. Anybody is quite open to indicate whatever they wish in order to make sure we provide as appropriate a compensation as possible. You can never totally compensate veterans truly for what they deserve, but we want to make sure we provide the best compensation possible. That's what we will do and want to do.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Wagantall, we will start the clock again. You have one minute and 45 seconds remaining. Please proceed.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "If that's the case, is Minister MacAulay aware of the practice of red-flagging veterans' files?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm not aware.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "Since the deputy minister has indicated that he runs the department, will the minister ask him for the names of veterans and the dates and the reasons that they are, or have been, red-flagged by VAC?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I would certainly ask any veteran or anybody who has a concern to contact my office. I will do anything I can to make sure that the veterans",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Do the most ill and injured still receive from the pension up to $300,000 less for life?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as you know and as the Prime Minister indicated when the pension for life was put in place, it was stated that if anybody receives lessthe Prime Minister himself indicated it quite clearlythat must be adjusted.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "For veterans in similar circumstances, should the date of their application for compensation be a factor in determining whether they're treated equitably?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Yes, of course, the date is when the compensation would start. Of course, it's very important and very appropriate.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "Now we will proceed to Mr. Lloyd.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Retired Major Mark Campbell in my riding of Sturgeon RiverParkland lost both legs in the line of duty in Afghanistan. He is an avid sport shooter, but understandably, due to his disability, he is very limited in the kinds of firearms he can use, and all of these firearms have now been banned under the Liberal OIC. My question to the Minister of Public Safety is this: Did their department do a legal analysis and consider the section 15 charter rights of disabled Canadians not to be discriminated against when they passed their OIC?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Yes, there was a very thorough analysis done by the justice department to ensure that the prohibitions we put in place were, in fact, charter compliant. Let me also say, Mr. Chair, how important it was that we prohibited weapons that were not designed for sporting purposes at all. In fact, they were designed for soldiers to use in combat. They have no place in a civil society. We have prohibited them, and we believeand this has been echoed by many people across the countrythat this will make Canadians safer.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, is the minister aware that the AR-15 is the most popular sporting rifle in Canada, and is he aware that disabled veterans like Major Mark Campbell are unable to participate in the sport of sport shooting because of his OIC?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dane Lloyd"
},
{
"content": "I can assure the member that what I am aware of is that the AR-15 and other weapons like them have been used in mass killings in Canada on many occasions, such as at cole Polytechnique, at Dawson College, again at the Quebec mosque and in Moncton. The AR-15s in particular were also used at the terrible tragedy in places like Sandy Hook, where a bunch of kids were killed, so there is no place for",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "We will go to Mr. Lloyd.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it has been months since the Liberals shut down this Parliament and months since the Minister of Finance should have presented a budget or at least an economic update to Canadians. Since then we have seen billions spent with little oversight and no plan. The minister says that he needs certainty before he can table a budget. Well, that didn't stop Stephen Harper and the Conservatives from tabling a budget in the depth of the last great recession. When are these Liberals finally going to take their job seriously and table an economic update?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dane Lloyd"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we're taking this very seriously. We're working for Canadians and bringing forward supports to make sure that businesses, workers and Canadians can put food on the table and pay their rent. We will continue to support Canadians, and when we have a clear projection to present, we will do that.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier (Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the results are in, and businesses aren't happy with the so-called support programs from these Liberals. In fact, the oil and gas industry has been shut out of many of these economic programs. When is the government going to recognize that their business support plans have been an absolute failure with only a fraction of the billions promised being accessible to businesses?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dane Lloyd"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our government has taken swift and immediate action to support our sector throughout this challenging time. We had the BCAP, which is critically important to providing liquidity to support the SMEs that make up 85% of the jobs in our sector. It has taken an enormous team effort. People are working around the clock to get money where it needs to be. We are helping hard-working Canadians, small businesses and large businesses right across the country, but in particular in our energy sector.",
"speaker": "Hon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Natural Resources)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm pleased to see the Minister of Natural Resources online. He tweeted recently to praise the Alberta Carbon Trunk Line and the North West Redwater Partnership refinery in my riding. Can the minister tell us what, if any, support they have given to the innovative carbon capture and sequestration technology in this country?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dane Lloyd"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we see carbon capture and sequestration as an integral part of lowering emissions, making emissions more competitive and making our oil and gas industry more competitive. We're seeing where the investment dollars are going. They are going to jurisdictions that are committed to lowering emissions. Obviously, this government is committing to net zero.",
"speaker": "Hon. Seamus O'Regan"
},
{
"content": "I note that the minister couldn't name a single example of government support for carbon capture, utilization and sequestration technology. We have spent a lot of time talking about the COVID-19 pandemic, but Canadians are living with another horrific reality, that being the intensifying opioid overdose epidemic. Reports indicate that in the past four years, 14,000 Canadians have died, and the numbers during COVID-19 have been skyrocketing, with British Columbia seeing a 39% increase this year alone. I know this because I've lost a family member to a fentanyl overdose. When is the government going to take this scourge seriously and take action to save the lives of Canadians?",
"speaker": "Mr. Dane Lloyd"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I share the member's deep sadness about the number of lives we've lost to opioid overdose. Our government has been steadily making it easier for people who live with substance use to access medications to treat substance use, such as prescription Suboxone and methadone. We have made it easier to rapidly establish safe injection sites in communities and have supported community-based projects that work with people who are using substances. We need to understand that this is a complex issue, and we need to support people to get the help they need.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "The hon. member for Thrse-DeBlainville.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes (AlgomaManitoulinKapuskasing, NDP))"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I will come back to the bill introduced last week. As parliamentarians, we felt like we were watching a very bad play, as I imagine the public did. I say that it was theatre, even though it shouldn't be in this place. The government decided to stage a play and act alone and, unfortunately, there were several acts missing. A very important part of this bill was about supporting people with disabilities in this time of crisis. However, the government did not see fit to negotiate with the opposition parties, even though it is in a minority position. Despite this arrogance, the Bloc Qubcois proposed solutions. One of the things we proposed was to split the bill so that we could give this support to people with disabilities, but the Conservatives did not want to do that. We came back and asked for time to negotiate and give support to people with disabilities, but the government defeated the motion. We asked that the House be recalled today so that we could pass this part of the bill concerning support for people with disabilities, but we are still in the dark. Why are we abandoning people with disabilities?",
"speaker": "Ms. Louise Chabot (Thrse-De Blainville, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "I thank the hon. member for her question. We know this pandemic has deeply affected the lives and health of all Canadians and has disproportionately affected Canadians with disabilities in particular. From the very beginning, we've taken a disability-inclusive approach to our emergency response to ensure that Canadians with disabilities get the support they need. That is why we announced a one-time payment of $600 for persons with disabilities to address these expenses. This will go a long way toward helping Canadians with disabilities. We encourage and urge all parties in the opposition to support this measure. We're confident that this measure, along with other investments, will benefit Canadians with disabilities, and we hope to get the support of the other parties very soon.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I remind you that this measure wasn't passed because we weren't allowed to do so. A measure to help people with disabilities has been put in an omnibus bill. We've tried here, in the House, to provide the means to give that support, so I ask again, can the government be counted on to give a response to people with disabilities?",
"speaker": "Ms. Louise Chabot"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, it was absolutely not an omnibus bill. It contained assistance for the disabled, of course, but it also contained assistance for our seasonal workers, as well as a number of other measures that the Bloc Qubcois opposed. They refused to debate and, when the question of splitting the bill came up, the Conservatives refused to do that. That is why there is no bill at the moment, and that is very unfortunate.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "It was a Bloc Qubcois proposal to split the bill. The government had not thought of it, but they found that it was a good idea. Let me return to the attack. This bill proposed changes to the wage subsidy program, it was supposed to make the CERB more flexible, it proposed fines for fraudsters and, since there was a little section about a benefit for the disabled, the government took it for granted that we would support it without any negotiations with the parties. However, we set one very important condition: that the Liberal Party must get its hands out of taxpayers' pockets in terms of the wage subsidy.",
"speaker": "Ms. Louise Chabot"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, as we listen to the Bloc Qubcois members, we might think that they invented peanut butter and apple pie. This bill contained a number of measures that all Quebeckers and all Canadians needed, but the Bloc Qubcois refused to debate it. No, we did not follow the Bloc Qubcois' example in splitting the bill; we had thought of it a long time previously. We have not been able to do that because of the Conservatives. Because of them, we cannot help those living with disabilities.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Ms.Chabot, you have 45seconds left.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "We asked on a number of occasions for the House to be able to sit starting today to pass the part of the bill dealing with those with disabilities. What is the status of that, MadamChair? We have not heard about it since.",
"speaker": "Ms. Louise Chabot"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, my colleague knows very well that things are not as simple as that. There are procedural mechanisms unique to the House. I hope that, one day, we will be able to pass this bill and be able to provide assistance for those living with disabilities. I hope that the Conservatives will change their minds and give us their support.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "We will go now to the honourable member for Don Valley East, Ms. Ratansi.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be sharing my time with the member for Surrey Centre. Since 2015 our government has been focused on ensuring its policies mitigate the effects of climate change. Several measures have been implemented for phasing out coal, making polluters pay, providing climate incentives, investing in green technologies and much more, which all together have created a climate plan that is doing more to cut pollution than any other in Canada's history. In my riding of Don Valley East, many innovative businesses have benefited from these investments and initiatives. One area of particular interest is our government's work to protect 25% of Canada's land and 25% of its oceans by 2025. Our natural environment is something that Canadians and my constituents care about deeply. Could the minister update this House on the new conservation projects announced on June 5, World Environment Day, and on how our government is protecting our environment?",
"speaker": "Ms. Yasmin Ratansi (Don Valley East, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, protecting nature is an important part of how we will address climate change and the very real challenges it presents. That's why on June 5, World Environment Day, our government announced over 60 conservation projects under development across Canada. These projects are funded through the Canada Nature Fund's target 1 challenge initiative. They'll conserve Canadian nature and biodiversity and protect species at risk, enhance ecological integrity and connectivity, and enhance the size of Canada's vast network of protected areas. Nearly half of these projects are indigenous-led, with the aim of creating indigenous-protected conserved areas. Madam Chair, projects like these move us closer to our goal of protecting 25% of Canada's lands and oceans by 2025. By working together in partnership with the provinces, territories, municipalities, indigenous peoples and Canadians, together we can protect our natural environment for generations to come.",
"speaker": "Hon. Seamus O'Regan"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Ratansi, since you have 25 seconds left, we will go to the honourable member for Surrey Centre.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, there are many small and medium-sized businesses in my riding of Surrey Centre. Many have been impacted by COVID-19. They saw a decrease in business or needed to close their doors completely in order to adhere to public safety measures to manage the spread of COVID-19. These measures helped keep our most vulnerable citizens safe and ensured that our hospital and health care providers did not become overwhelmed with a sharp spike in cases. Thanks to our government's COVID-19 emergency response, many of these businesses have been able to keep their employees and access important liquidity through the Canada emergency business account, which provides loans to small businesses and non-profits, and the Canada emergency wage subsidy, which is helping businesses to keep and rehire their employees while their revenues are down by providing up to 75% of wages for up to 24 weeks. As we begin to reopen the economy and Canadians across the country return to the job market, those benefits will be even more important to help businesses and industries rehire their staff and make important adjustments to align with public health guidelines to gradually increase their operations. Can the minister please update the committee on how many Canadian businesses have taken advantage of CEBA and CEWS since applications for each have been opened?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randeep Sarai (Surrey Centre, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I want to begin by thanking the member for Surrey Centre for all the work he does to support his constituents and small businesses. Canadians across the country need to know our government has been working tirelessly and will continue to work tirelessly on their behalf. This is why we put in place the important programs to help them get through this crisis during this difficult time, programs such as the wage subsidy program. We know that in so many businesses the employees are often like extended family members. The wage subsidy has helped these businesses keep their employees on the payroll and are now helping in their rehiring as they slowly and safely restart. There are 348,000 businesses being helped with the wage subsidy program, and this means that 2.6 million workers are being helped. Businesses are also being helped through the interest-free $40,000 loan they can access through CEBA to help stay afloat and pay their expenses during this crisis. I'm pleased to inform this House that to date more than 669,000",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We will go to the honourable member for St. John's East.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, the member for LondonFanshawe. Madam Chair, with so many recent reports and videos of police using force, sometimes deadly force, and violence against indigenous and black people in Canada, I've called for the public safety committee to reconvene. If the members agree, will the minister come to the committee and provide concrete answers as to how the government intends to address racism inherent in Canada's law enforcement, and in particular the RCMP?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jack Harris"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank my colleague for the question. It's perhaps the most important one facing Canada today. Madam Chair, indigenous people, black Canadians and other racialized people are far too often experiencing systemic racism and disparate outcomes within the entire criminal justice system. In order to respond appropriately, I think it's necessary to begin by acknowledging the lived experience of people who've known bias and discrimination at the hands of the police and our courts and within our prisons. We remain committed to working with all racialized people and all of the members of this House to ensure that we work toward social justice for all Canadians, and I look forward to discussing the member's motion further with him.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Will the minister and the government commit to facilitating such a meeting of this committee virtually?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jack Harris"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the decisions of the committee are the committee's, so I'm sure that this will be a discussion within the committee, but if called, I will certainly be pleased to come with my officials to provide the committee with whatever support and information it needs to contribute to this very important discussion.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Harris, you have 40 seconds.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "In light of what we've seen with Chief Adam in Fort McMurray and the RCMP accepting that the actions were reasonable, will the minister commit to a full review of the use of force by the RCMP, in particular the philosophy, tactics and training that is given to RCMP officers in dealing with the public?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jack Harris"
},
{
"content": "I thank the member and I want to assure him, first of all, that this is work that is ongoing, not just in the RCMP but throughout the police community. May I also take this opportunity, Madam Chair, to say that I think all police training has to begin with one very important principle, and that's the preservation of all life and the respect for all Canadians. We also know the importance of de-escalation training. We're committed to continuing to work with indigenous communities, racialized communities and with police services and all participants in the criminal justice system to make sure that it is fair for all Canadians.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "We will go to the honourable member for LondonFanshawe, Ms. Mathyssen.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we need more justice for black, indigenous and racialized people in Canada. They can't be asked to keep waiting. This government recognizes that systemic racism exists but refuses to collect race-based data that would allow us to quantify and truly address this injustice. We need data to protect Canadians. When will this government do the right thing and start collecting race-based data?",
"speaker": "Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (LondonFanshawe, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, our government agrees that it's important that we collect data, and that's exactly why, in the anti-racism secretariat and the anti-racism strategy, there is a commitment to have money go to Statistics Canada to collect race-based data. We look forward to working with all members to ensure it happens.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bardish Chagger (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we know that Statistics Canada will start to collect job numbers based on race. This will allow us to identify systemic racism where it is and where we need to ensure a fair and more equal job market for black, indigenous and racialized people in Canada. Why is this government refusing to follow suit so we can tackle systemic racism everywhere, in every sector?",
"speaker": "Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I'd like to thank my honourable colleague for her question. She's absolutely correct in her assessment that we need to collect more data, reliable data, data that will help us deal with some of the challenges we're seeing with systemic discrimination, but, more broadly, we want to make sure that we continue to engage with an anti-racism strategy that will allow us to collect that disaggregated data. That is why we allocated $6.2 million to that initiative through Statistics Canada, but we know we must do more and we will do more.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "We know that all people are susceptible to catching COVID-19, but health authorities are clear that parts of cities like Montreal and Toronto have been more impacted than others. For black and racialized people living in these cities, this data is a matter of life and death. Will the government collect and share disaggregated data so we can identify and erase systemic racism, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, making decisions based on science and evidence is essential for our government. We took that practice from day one. It is exactly the step we will take moving forward and that's why we are making those investments to ensure that data exists. We are working across all departments. My mandate letter is public. I look forward to continuing to work not only with all ministers, departments and agencies, but all allies and all parties to get this work done.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bardish Chagger"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Blaney, the honourable member for BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, MadamChair. Last week, my plumber told me that, each time Justin Trudeau comes down the steps to make announcements totalling several billion dollars, he feels like someone is rifling through his pockets. My question is simple and goes to the Minister of Finance: where is this money coming from?",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I would like to thank my honourable colleague for his question. Currently, the health and safety of Canadians are our top priorities. We have implemented an emergency economic plan to support Canadians, workers and companies. We will continue to support them during this crisis.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "The answer I would have liked is simple: we are borrowing the money and we are going to have to pay it back one day. That is another Liberal craze: they borrow money, they make campaign promises, and off they go. Under the Conservative government, the Chantier Davie in Lvis had 1,700workers for the supply ship Asterix. In the election campaign, the Liberals promised icebreakers. When are the Liberals going to award the icebreaker contracts to the Chantier Davie?",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, we are very proud of the Chantier Davie and we completely understand its role in the system. We are currently assessing those requests. We are going to establish the process for the polar ice-breaker, which is essential for the work of the Coast Guard in northern communities, and we are going to make sure that",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Blaney has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "The workers do not need words; they need contracts and jobs. The same is true for young people who want to work. There is money in the Canada summer jobs program: in my constituency alone, $150,000has been approved. Companies want young people to work and want to hire them. What is the minister waiting for in order to confirm those positions? In my constituency, and everywhere else in the country, our young people want to work. What is the government waiting for in order to send some cash to the Canada summer jobs program?",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we are proud of the Canada summer jobs program. We are introducing flexibilities into the system to enable employers to be able to hire summer students. We recognize the importance of this program to provide both financial resources and necessary experience for young people. We believe in continuing to invest in the Canada summer jobs program.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "The workers, the young people and the employers have been waiting for weeks. The money is available; where is the announcement? MadamChair, our young people are not the only ones who want to work. There are also the temporary foreign workers. Let me use Jessie Gito as an example; he has been working at Plate2000 in Saint-Anselme for years. When the time came to renew his work permit, he found out that he has to have some biometric tests. But he cannot get them because the offices are closed. Is the minister going to allow Jessie Gito and the thousands of other temporary foreign workers who want to work to be able to do so until the government biometric testing centres reopen?",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, it is important for the honourable member to recognize that we are in the early recovery stage of the pandemic. Employers are slowly reopening businesses. We will ensure that we support both our students and our temporary foreign workers to make sure we get the recovery right. We will continue to invest in the Canada summer jobs program. We've introduced flexibilities into the program to ensure that employers are able to take advantage of the program and give opportunities to young people.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "It is very simple. Jessie Gito is a foreign worker, who is in a company that provides an essential service. He needs a decision that will let him go to work, rather than staying home and doing nothing. Then, when the government's biometric testing centres are open again, he will gladly go to one. Young people want to work in agriculture as well, and the minister has told us that the government wants young people working and that their files will be processed as quickly as possible. She wants to create 700positions and she knows that people can fill in an application on a first-come first-served basis. Of those 700positions, how many have been confirmed to date? The good weather has arrived, the corn is starting to grow, and this is the time when farmers need the young workers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, the program for young workers in agriculture is open. I also encourage agricultural producers to register for it. This is a program that is not only intended to provide summer jobs, but also to interest young people in making a career in agriculture. As I have said before, the department is processing files as quickly as possible. Each employer will have an answer very shortly.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food)"
},
{
"content": "We will now take a short break. Okay, we are ready to start again. We will go to the honourable member for BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Over the course of the pandemic, has the government been using all avenues possible to source much-needed PPE in Canada?",
"speaker": "Mr. Doug Shipley (BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we have been very clear that we have a made-in-Canada initiative that has engaged companies across the country. Over 700 companies have retooled and scaled up their operations for personal protective equipment to help front-line health care workers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I need to ask very quickly which ministry and minister are responsible for the sourcing of PPE in Canada.",
"speaker": "Mr. Doug Shipley"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, this is a collective effort. I work with the Minister of Health and the minister for procurement , and we coordinate with the provinces and territories to make sure there are appropriate levels of PPE to help front-line health care workers and essential workers across the country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that clarification. That will make this question all the more pertinent. My riding of BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte is the home of Southmedic Inc. Southmedic is a renowned medical supply business. For over 37 years, it has provided front-line health care workers with an extensive line of PPE and other essential products required when dealing with respiratory illnesses. This company specializes in respiratory illness equipment. Southmedic currently employs over 700 people, and it has been recognized as one of Canada's best-managed companies by Deloitte on numerous occasions. Since the beginning of the pandemic, both I and the member for BarrieInnisfil have been attempting to obtain some assistance for Southmedic from the federal government. Calls and emails were falling on deaf ears. In early May, I wrote a letter to Minister Anand outlining the situation. I received a letter back from the minister dated May 27 indicating that this issue of Southmedic falls under the mandate of the Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada. I have heard nothing more. When will the federal government reach out and help this great Canadian company and therefore ensure that all front-line workers will have the proper PPE they require?",
"speaker": "Mr. Doug Shipley"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I'd like to thank my honourable colleague for his question. He knows full well that this is a very challenging time. That is why we had a call to action to engage Canadians right across the country. Since then, we've seen over 6,000 companies step up to offer solutions and ideas, and over 700 companies have retooled their efforts. I acknowledge that some companies are still engaging with the government, and we'll continue to explore all possible options to make sure we continue to procure the necessary levels of personal protective equipment to protect Canadians and to protect front-line health care workers. That has always been our priority. I want to thank the outstanding Canadian companies that have come forward and have helped us in this endeavour. We continue to look forward to working with them.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that answer. Just to follow up, there's no retooling required at this company. They could have been up and going very quickly. They just needed a little assistance at the beginning. Moving on to a different issue, while walking to my office this morning, I stopped at my local small family-run coffee shop and was discussing the current economic situation with the two owners of the establishment. They indicated they are having a very tough time surviving this economic downturn. The only thing keeping them hopeful is that soon the public service will start returning to work, and therefore their business will begin to return. Could the government please give us some indication as to what the plans are for returning the civil service back to work safely, and when?",
"speaker": "Mr. Doug Shipley"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to answer this question. This is a very important topic, but I'd like to take the opportunity first to thank our public servants, who have worked very hard in the last few weeks, both personally and professionally. In fact, today is a wonderful day to say that, because today is the start of National Public Service Week. That's one more reason to thank them for their dedicated work. They are not going to go back to work. They've been at work for the last few monthsin different circumstances, but they have been working very hard to deliver the services and the support Canadians need and deserve.",
"speaker": "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (President of the Treasury Board)"
},
{
"content": "Next we'll go to the honourable member for SelkirkInterlakeEastman, Mr. Bezan.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. My questions are for the Minister of National Defence. First of all, I want to thank the great men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces for the fantastic job they're doing in Operation LASER, serving on the front lines battling COVID-19. Can the Minister of National Defence give the House an update on exactly where we are at with the number of Canadian Armed Forces members who have been infected with COVID-19?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I want to echo the member opposite's comments in thanking our Canadian Armed Forces members. Currently, we have 13 active cases in the Canadian Armed Forces, but in the long-term care facilities we currently have 50 cases. No member has been currently hospitalized. We have also conducted very thorough reviews of our protection protocols as well.",
"speaker": "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan (Minister of National Defence)"
},
{
"content": "Through you, Chair, Minister Sajjan, does that number of active cases include the active cases that are in long-term care facilities right now in Operation LASER?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, as I stated, the 50 cases are strictly from the long-term care facilities. The 13 cases I mentioned are not in the long-term care facilities. Just to give the actual clarification, no member has been currently hospitalized.",
"speaker": "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan"
},
{
"content": "In those numbers, Madam Chair, can Mr. Sajjan say how many of those cases in long-term care facilities are active and how many are recovered?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I don't have the exact number. What I can say to break it down further is that in Quebec we currently have 36 and in Ontario we have 14. As well, 36 of the members have been out of isolation. I'll get more details and pass them on directly to the member, Madam Chair.",
"speaker": "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Minister. Madam Chair, I have a quick question while we're still talking about Operation LASER. The President of the Treasury Board has said, The Canadian Armed Forces will be present as long as their presence is needed in Quebec. This contradicts what Prime Minister Trudeau is saying, which is that we have a hard deadline of June 26 for the withdrawal of our troops for Operation LASER. That means taking our troops out of our long-term care facilities. Minister, is June 26 the hard date for the winding down of Operation LASER?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to clarify for the House. We've been in very extensive discussions with the Province of Quebec, with my counterpart Minister Guilbault, and we are working very diligently to ensure we have a sustained, appropriate response to the request from Quebec for assistance. That response will result in a transition from the currently deployed Canadian Armed Forces to the deployment of paid volunteers, trained personnel who will take on the important role of providing services to those Canadians who need our help in Quebec.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "I'll go back to the Minister of National Defence. The Department of National Defence auditors have called out the Liberal government for mismanagement over the $553-billion investment in our Canadian military through the defence policy. Only three people have been assigned to oversee the rollout of this money. This is a $553-billion investment in our armed forces, and only three people are managing it. Could the minister tell us how that is even possible? Is this the reason that over 100 projects are currently behind schedule?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, first of all, I want to highlight the unprecedented investment that we're making in defence. We have conducted internal reviews of our procurement. The report the member opposite is talking about is from the previous year. This is the ongoing work we're doing to make sure that we make procurement better. When it comes to the management of this, it's conducted by me and the minister of procurement . We are working toward making our procurement even better. We have already streamlined some aspects of our procurement and we'll continue to do more as well.",
"speaker": "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan"
},
{
"content": "Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers' money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollars?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.",
"speaker": "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan"
},
{
"content": "Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs program?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, that didn't really answer my question. Why are so many indigenous communities left out of the Canada summer jobs program? This is very important to my community and to communities throughout the province. Will the government investigate why these communities were rejected?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Yurdiga"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I want to assure the honourable member that we, of course, value the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in all communities, including indigenous communities in Canada. I will certainly have an off-line conversation with the honourable member, if he so wishes, about a particular issue, but I can assure him that in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, we have had to assist employers to introduce flexibilities",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Yurdiga.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, in my riding, the City of Cold Lake has been in dispute with the federal government for many years over payment in lieu of taxes. My office has sent many letters over the years regarding the PILT dispute. Could the Minister of Public Services and Procurement give me a rough estimate of when I will receive a response from the minister's office to my first letter, from 2017, and my letters from 2018, 2019 and 2020?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Yurdiga"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I can assure the honourable member that I will go to the minister, and we will come back with an answer to his question.",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti"
},
{
"content": "How much longer does the minister intend to perpetuate the ongoing PILT dispute, which is in excess of $11 million, with the City of Cold Lake?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Yurdiga"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, once again, I can assure the honourable member that I will speak with the minister and get an answer to his question.",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti"
},
{
"content": "Well, do you know what? I've been writing letters to the department for many years. When you say you're going to get back to me, I really have a hard time believing that. Will the minister agree to follow the prior recommendations of the dispute advisory panel that were accepted by the minister?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Yurdiga"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I can assure the honourable member that I will check with the minister and that she will return to the member in due course.",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the drug Trikafta has been proven to increase the quality of life for 90% of cystic fibrosis patients. Two weeks ago, my office sent a letter to the Minister of Health about the boy in my riding named Cael, who through the special access program is able to get Trikafta in Canada. I requested that the minister use her powers to fast-track Trikafta for commercial use, but I have yet to receive a response back. When will the minister make a decision on Trikafta?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Yurdiga"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I'm glad to hear that Cael was able to access Trikafta through the special access program. In fact, that program is very helpful for people who are seeking access to medication that's not currently marketed in Canada. As the member opposite knows, Vertex has not applied to market Trikafta in Canada, but we look forward to their application, and I encourage him to write a letter to the manufacturer to also encourage them.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "We will go now to the honourable member for Vancouver Granville, Ms. Wilson-Raybould.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. I was very troubled to hear that a CBC radio host in the Yukon felt compelled to resign because, as an indigenous person, she could not speak her truth. While we know the Broadcasting Act states that the Canadian broadcasting system should reflect the linguistic duality and multicultural and multiracial nature of Canadian society and the special place of indigenous peoples, it would seem there are some challenges. Therefore, does the Minister of Heritage share the concern of some journalists that problems of systemic racism in Canada are still existing within the institution of the CBC, and will the government now acknowledge the need to recognize the jurisdiction of indigenous governments?",
"speaker": "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould (Vancouver Granville, Ind.)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madame Chair; and I thank the member for this important question. As stated by the Prime Minister on numerous occasions, our government recognizes that systemic racism exists in Canada, and we have made a commitment to do everything we can to combat it in whichever organization of the Canadian government.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Canadian Heritage)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. When I was in the government, and as a minister, I learned the term red meat issues. I understand these issues to be ones that challenge societal norms, that are not politically expedient to address because they can lose you votes, even though addressing them is morally right and a smart thing to do. Mostly these are issues addressing inequality and the most marginalized in our society. In the justice system, examples include mandatory minimum penalties, defunding police, and even investing in restorative justice. Red-meat issues often become defining issues for society and for governments as the world changes. Surely now these issues are politically less of a consideration than the tragic reality of even more slain indigenous Canadians at the hands of police, or thousands of indigenous people still incarcerated or living in poverty. Will this government please finally commit to the necessary work originally promised in 2015 and repeal in the justice system the vast majority of mandatory minimum penalties, assuring the necessary discretion for judges, and meaningfully invest in restorative justice measures?",
"speaker": "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould"
},
{
"content": "Madame Chair, I thank the honourable member for her question, as well as for her work as Minister of Justice, and indeed my predecessor. This is an important time. This is a time when we recognize systemic racism. This is a time when we recognize systemic over-incarceration of indigenous peoples, of black peoples, in our criminal justice system. This is a time when we need to look at all potential options to reduce what is a shameful overrepresentation in our criminal justice system. Too often racialized peoples and indigenous peoples have experienced prejudice and systemic discrimination in our justice system, and that has to change.",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti"
},
{
"content": "I'll go on to another red meat issue. In British Columbia we are in the fifth year of the opioid overdose public health emergency crisis. Sadly, May marks the deadliest month of overdose-related deaths. We are halfway into the year and have currently passed 500 deaths caused by overdose. Many of the deaths are related to COVID-19 measures that have prevented people from accessing supervised consumption sites, so they are overdosing alone. While the provinces welcomed the federal backing of safe supply exemption back in March, it is to expire in September of 2020. Echoing the call of the chief coroner of B.C. and Dr. Henry, more is needed from the federal government, more action. Will the government provide the necessary supports to the province and help support safe supply initiatives in the provinces?",
"speaker": "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould"
},
{
"content": "It's been a pleasure to work with the Province of British Columbia on innovative ways to work on the tragic situation of opioid overdose. I remain committed to working with the province and in fact any province that wants to work towards solutions that treat people who use substances with the dignity they deserve. Madam Chair, this is a complex issue. We're working closely with our partners to make sure that we can prevent more lives from being lost.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "We will go to the honourable member for South OkanaganWest Kootenay, Mr. Cannings.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for SkeenaBulkley Valley. In my riding, Theo's in Penticton is a beloved restaurant. They've been serving great food for 40 years, but now they're struggling, because they don't qualify for the emergency wage subsidy. Why is that? The original owners retired last year and sold it to another operator. The new owner can't use a year-to-year comparison to apply for the wage subsidy because he didn't own the restaurant last spring. He is forced to use receipts from January and February, the darkest doldrums of the restaurant year, to compare with the results from May, traditionally one of their best months. Now he has to compete with other local restaurants that can access the subsidy. When will the government fix this inequity and let Theo's compete and survive?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Cannings (South OkanaganWest Kootenay, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the Canada emergency wage subsidy is supporting over 2.5 million workers across the country. To help even more businesses support their workers and rehire people as they reopen, our government is extending the CEWS, and we will continue to extend the CEWS for an additional 12 weeks to August 29 to ensure that Canadian workers continue to have the support they need during these very difficult times. By extending eligibility, our government is ensuring that more Canadian workers in more sectors have the support they need.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "The owner just wants to be able to apply for the wage subsidy, and right now he cannot, and he will not be able to. Thousands of other businesses are hit that way as well. I'd like to move on to forestry. Canada's forest sector has been declared essential during this pandemic, but it's been hit hard after a very difficult 2019. Despite soft markets and thousands out of work, government support programs have left many Canadian forest product companies behind. In my riding, the pulp mill in Castlegar is closing for the month of July because local sawmills aren't producing enough wood chips. What is the government going to do to finally support Canadian forestry workers and communities?",
"speaker": "Mr. Richard Cannings"
},
{
"content": "The time is almost up, but I will allow for the answer from the honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. We have supported and we will continue to support the forestry sector, including through regional development programs. In fact, in Quebec, partnering with Les Bois Francs DV Inc., we have widened market access to our products and updated technology systems. In North Bay we've partnered with the Canadian Wood Council to promote the sector. In Vancouver we're working with FPInnovations to create the indigenous forest sector technical support program. We are supporting the forestry sector and its different needs region by region.",
"speaker": "Hon. Seamus O'Regan"
},
{
"content": "Now we go to the honourable member for SkeenaBulkley Valley, Mr. Bachrach.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to pick up where my colleague left off, with B.C.'s forest industry. What we've seen in B.C. are multiple rounds of mill shutdowns and start-ups, and in some cases this has made it difficult for forestry workers to qualify for EI. My question to the minister is this: Will the minister work to make the EI program more flexible for forestry workers, similar to what this government has done for oil and gas workers?",
"speaker": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach (SkeenaBulkley Valley, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, in the oil and gas sector we have focused on workers. That has been key in the inactive and orphan well program, which we are working on with the provincial governments of Saskatchewan, British Columbia and Alberta. The focus on workers has assured that success, and we will continue to focus on workers in all the industries, particularly our natural resource industry, as they go through this extraordinarily difficult time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Seamus O'Regan"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, reforestation is a very important part of the forest industry in the riding I represent, and people were keenly interested to hear this government's plan to plant two billion trees in the next 10 years. That's a lot of trees. I'm wondering if the minister could tell us how many trees are going to be planted under this program by the end of this season.",
"speaker": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, this government is committed to two billion trees. We are working with forestry associations, the industry and with individual companies to ensure this tree-planting season will be one of the largest the country has ever seen.",
"speaker": "Hon. Seamus O'Regan"
},
{
"content": "The floor goes to the honourable member for Rivire-du-Nord.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, last week, the government introduced BillC-17 and the Minister of Justice sent us briefing notes in which he said that it was important to suspend a number of time limits and to extend others, and that the failure to do so could have important repercussions on Canadians, their families, their situations, their finances and their ability to exercise their rights. We in the Bloc Qubcois agree with that. When are we going to talk about it?",
"speaker": "Mr. Rhal Fortin (Rivire-du-Nord, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, the contents of BillC-17 are clearly very important. We have addressed the mandatory time limits in federal legislation as well as certain time limits that courts may not be able to handle. It is very important that we address this issue. That is why the law",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Fortin, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, we agree that it is important. I concur. The minister's briefing notes say that, among other things, when it comes to divorcewhich means children are involved people are waiting on custody rights, child support and visitation rights. The minister pointed out that the national security review would require consultations if no decision is made in the prescribed time frame. It could pose a national security risk. It is really a big deal. When are we going to debate it?",
"speaker": "Mr. Rhal Fortin"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I completely agree with my honourable colleague. The issue needs to be addressed. That is why it is in the bill. That is another reason to debate the bill. I beseech my colleagues opposite to debate it with us.",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, what a coincidence, because I beseech my colleague opposite to debate it with us. That is what we are asking. Last week, the leader of the Bloc Qubcois asked the Liberal government to debate BillC-17 today. He did not get an answer. It does not seem to matter. Richard Wagner, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who is hardly a dimwit or greenhorn, told us that the justice system needs to be modernized. As recently as this past Saturday in LaPresse, Justice Wagner said that it is essential that the Criminal Code be amended to address the backlog of court proceedings. When will the Liberal government opposite pull up its socks, do its job, govern the federation, sit down with the opposition and discuss the vital matters in BillC-17?",
"speaker": "Mr. Rhal Fortin"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, if I were my colleague, I would be a little embarrassed, because the bill was sent to the Bloc Qubcois several days in advance. They received a technical note several days in advance. We were all available to take questions. When we asked for the support of the Bloc Qubcois and the other parties to debate itwe were not even asking them to vote in favour of the billthey refused.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, we never refused to debate it. Actually, we were the ones who asked to debate it. What exactly does debate it mean? We set some conditions. For example, we asked the Liberals to put the money back into the wage subsidy fund and to commit to dip into it no longer. Are we asking too much of our colleagues opposite?",
"speaker": "Mr. Rhal Fortin"
},
{
"content": "Can my colleague explain to me what the emergency wage subsidy has to do with a bill about justice? This is an absolutely fundamental piece of legislation. We wanted to debate it, but they refused to do so.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I would like nothing better than to explain it to him, but I must remind him that he is the leader of the party in power, the party that is supposed to govern the country. So I do not know why he is asking me that. My party proposed that we debate this today but we did not get an answer. Meanwhile, court time limits are running out and people are losing rights. I am thinking of families, child support, child custody, labour law disputes in Federal Court, marine transportation, interprovincial transportation, aviation, banks, and those with grievances waiting for a Federal Court ruling. The whole system, the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeal, everything is on hold because nobody in the government wants to do their job. We want to discuss BillC-17. When can we talk about it?",
"speaker": "Mr. Rhal Fortin"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, we have done our job. We have introduced the bill. We informed them in advance. We told them they could ask us any questions they wanted. We asked for a debate in the House. However, when we asked the Bloc Qubcois if they wanted to debate the bill, they said no, instead of doing what they usually do and saying yes.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "We will go to the honourable member for Essex, Mr. Lewis.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. When the CERB runs out, many workers in my riding of Essex will not have sufficient hours to collect their EI benefits. In early July, the midnight shift at Chrysler will be eliminated. Because of the shutdown, a mom-to-be who had just returned to work in January, and several hundred of her fellow employees, may not have the 600 hours required for regular or EI parental benefits. Immediate action is needed. What is the government doing now to backstop these workers?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris Lewis (Essex, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the Canada emergency response benefit has been providing much-needed help to Canadian workers across the country who have stopped working due to COVID-19. We know that there is still a lot of uncertainty for many Canadian workers, and we know that many will be exhausting their benefits in the weeks to come. We will have more to share soon, as early as this week, on our continuing efforts to support Canadian workers and make sure that help is available during this",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead, Mr. Lewis.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Minister, for the answer. The EI system needs to be fixed. Even before the shutdown, the system was deeply flawed. Will this government commit to a complete review and overhaul of the EI system?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris Lewis"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we have been there for Canadian workers. We will continue to make sure that we make the necessary investments in the EI delivery system and modernize it to continue to meet",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Lewis.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. Small businesses have been hit extremely hard by the COVID-19 shutdown. Many have already been forced into bankruptcy. Much uncertainty lies ahead. As the economy reopens, what is the government doing to help small businesses recover?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris Lewis"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, today we are seeing small businesses that have been helped, whether it is getting access to the small business loan, which some are also using in the restart as they are safely restarting, or getting help with their payroll, helping them keep their employees",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Lewis.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. Employees are key to a small business's success. How will the government incentivize workers to return to their jobs when recalled?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris Lewis"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister can give a brief answer.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "The Canada emergency wage subsidy is an excellent program to help those employees stay employed and for those employers who are looking at rehiring them right now during this restart process.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, many of my constituents are in a committed cross-border relationship and have not been able to see their partners in quite some time. The current restrictions are arbitrary. Denmark has found a fair resolution. Will Canada adopt the Danish model, and if not, why not?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris Lewis"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, as we said from the outset, we've implemented restrictions at the U.S. border on non-essential travel with a single purpose in mind: to protect the health and safety of Canadians. As the member is aware, just last week we introduced new measures that allow people in family relationships to stay together as long as they commit to the necessary 14-day period of quarantine. We'll continue to work with families. Our intention is to keep people together, but mostly to keep people safe.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, with regard to child care, as our economy continues to open, parents are facing a stark choice: Who will care for their children? What's the plan to provide access to child care so parents can confidently return to work?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris Lewis"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we are of course committed to continuing to make the record investments that we've been making in child care. Since 2015 we've created over 40,000 affordable child care spaces. We're committed to creating an additional 250,000 before-school and after-school child care spaces. We will continue to invest in this sector because we understand that without investment",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Lewis.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. It sounds as though this government has a desire to force parents to choose between their job and care for their child. Can the government please respond to that quote?",
"speaker": "Mr. Chris Lewis"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, nothing could be further from the truth. We are committed to the child care sector. Our investments and our results prove the opposite of what the member is asserting. Mr. Chris Lewis: Madam Chair",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry. We're out of time. The committee now stands adjourned until tomorrow at noon.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
}
] |
covid_5 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"4"
]
],
"topic": "Petitioners presented in the committee"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"9",
"35"
]
],
"topic": "Pressing issues faced by the business sector in Canada"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"36",
"93"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about federal support in various aspects"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"94",
"111"
]
],
"topic": "Arguments about the rent and non-partisan approach"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"112",
"144"
]
],
"topic": "Government's plan to eliminate the influence of Covid-19"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"149",
"177"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about border issues and aviation industry"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"178",
"258"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about small business and exact figures of current situation in Canada"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting was the fifth meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. First of all, petitioners presented several petitions concerning BillC-7, Senate Bill S-204 and virtual format of the Covid-19 committee. Later, the meeting questioned the ministry on the pressing issues faced by the business sector in Canada and the governments' approaches towards the bad impact caused by Covid-19. The government in return, introduced the pressing facts and assured the committee that a great number of actions had been taken into reality. Moreover, the meeting also discussed the rent assistance and ways to ensure the privileges of both the land owner and the farmers. When it comes to the international affairs, the ministry restated the importance of One China agreement and said that the border issues were taken a close look by the government. In the end, the ministry was challenged with the exact figures of the current situation in Canada.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach introduced that municipalities were unable to run deficits and so they were facing the reality of cutbacks and serious cuts to the services that Canadians depend on. Currently, The Federation of Canadian Municipalities and mayors across Canada have called for emergency financial relief for the municipal sector. Since they were very vital to the recovery of the cities under the Covid-19 situation, the government was working with the provinces and the cities, to ensure that it was able to support this order of government that could deliver the vast majority of services to Canadians with very little financial means.",
"query": "What were the difficulties faced by the municipal sector?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"36",
"37"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Prime Minister was challenged that a bus driver in Vancouver who had been laid off as a public sector worker, could not access the federal wage subsidy while the opposite result happened to another worker in the airline industry. The Prime Minister explained that the airline industry, like banking, like telecommunications, was a federal area of jurisdiction which could receive the promote wage subsidy. However, under the current situation, the federal government was working hard to ensure equal distribution of the whole nation.",
"query": "What happened to a public sector worker in Canada?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"42",
"44"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Catherine McKenna restated the answer several times that under the Covid-19 situation, although the government was trying hard to cope with different issues while handling the projects at the same time, things took time to finish the process. Moreover, Hon. Catherine McKenna assured the committee that the government was taking every method of solving the problem. However, this answer was challenged by Mr. Luc Berthold who insisted the ministry had not given an exact number.",
"query": "How many projects that the provinces had submitted were waiting for approval from the government?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"48",
"56"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Minister of Foreign Affairs suggested the importance of One China agreement but also expressed great gratitudes towards all the donors across the world. The cooperation between every area in the world was welcomed and it would be glad to see global efforts to battle the Covid-19 virus.",
"query": "Will the Minister of Foreign Affairs thank Taiwan officially for the donation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"65",
"71"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health) introduced that the government had been very committed to improving access and affordability for prescription medications for all Canadians. The PMPRB regulatory amendments would help Canadians be able to afford their prescriptions, and Canada would continue to be an important market for new medicines. However, it was challenged that seniors were being particularly hard hit right now during this pandemic, yet seniors had not been given any direct support. As a promise, the government assured the committee that appropriate attention had been paid to the senior patients.",
"query": "How would the government grant medical assistance to the most vulnerable to COVID-19 infection?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"112",
"118"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Patty Hajdu introduced that contact tracing was an important part of managing any outbreak. In fact, the government had been looking at a number of ways to support increased contact tracing across the country, including working with provinces and territories to boost their capacity through human resources and volunteer organizations. However, it was challenged that the Privacy Commissioner had suggested if there was also a crisis of confidence. And it was assured that particular attention must be paid to transparency, privacy and ethical concerns to ensure privacy.",
"query": "What did the meeting talk about the contact tracing apps?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"119",
"127"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "It was believed that the farm sector would be taking the Prime Minister up on the suggestion that $250 million should be seen as an initial investment. On the financial safety net that the government had in place for the farmers, called the business risk management program, which was announced up to $125 million in funding through AgriRecovery and made changes to AgriStability that would help producers quickly.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the support offered to the agri-food sector?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"132",
"133"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "It would be carried out soon and the relief package would include funding for airline ticket refunds similar to what other countries around the world had done. The announcement was made recently by Air Canada. It would start shortly and would apply to all places and destinations where Air Canada flew.",
"query": "When would the government announce a relief package for Canada's aviation industry?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"156",
"163"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As a fact, 98% of all the businesses in this country were small businesses, so they absolutely contributed enormously to the communities and were job creators. That was why the government had put out significant measures. For the Canada emergency business account, over 550,000 small businesses have been approved and were getting that support.",
"query": "What would the government do about small businesses in Canada?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"178",
"180"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Currently, there were two issues regarding the 50% commercial rent assistance subsidy, where landlords paid 25%, the government paid 50%, and the tenant was responsible for 25%. The government had been working with the provinces and territories to provide this forgivable loan to commercial property owners, who in turn would lower the rent of their tenants by 75%. The government would continue to monitor how this program was delivered.",
"query": "What did the meeting talk about the forgivable loan to commercial property owners?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"181",
"181"
],
[
"190",
"190"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "On April 17, the Minister of Canadian Heritage announced funding of $500 million to assist Canada's arts, sports and cultural sectors. Hon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Canadian Heritage) suggested that the department would be releasing the details of that announcement, and how the money was going to be spent in the coming days.",
"query": "Who would be eligible to receive the art funding?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"194",
"195"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "It was suggested that farmers and relative products were largely influenced by Covid-19. Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau introduced that the government had already confirmed various supports for the agricultural sector. This week, the government focused on beef and pork producers and processors, as well as sectors with product surpluses that could be redirected to food banks. At the same time, industry and suppliers had enthusiastically answered the call to equip Canada with products and goods during the crisis.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the various supports for the agricultural sector?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"212",
"215"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "We'll call this meeting to order. Welcome to the fifth meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Pursuant to the order passed on Monday, April20, the committee is meeting today to consider ministerial announcements, to allow members of the committee to present petitions, and to question ministers, including the Prime Minister, about the COVID-19 pandemic. Tomorrow, May8, Dr.AndreaMcCrady, Dominion Carillonneur, will give a special recital to mark the 75th anniversary of Victory in Europe Day. Victory in Europe Day, VE Day, commemorates the formal acceptance of Germany's surrender by allied forces at the end of the Second World War. While the pandemic prevents us from gathering to celebrate in person, tomorrow at noon the voice of our nation will ring out in remembrance of this milestone in our history. Today's meeting is taking place by video conference. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee. I would like to remind members that, as in the House of Commons or committee, they should not take photos of their colleagues or film the proceedings. In order to facilitate the work of the interpreters and to allow the meeting to proceed smoothly, I would ask you to follow some instructions. The video conference will be interpreted as in normal meetings of committees and in the House. In the lower part of your screen, you can choose the language: floor, English or French. Please wait until I call on you by name before you begin to speak. When you are ready to speak, click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone, or hold the space bar down while you are speaking. If you release the bar, your microphone will revert to mute, just like a walkie-talkie. Honourable members, I would like to remind you that if you want to speak English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Please direct your remarks through the chair. Should you need to request the floor outside of your designated speaking time, you should activate your mike and state that you have a point of order. If a member of the committee wishes to intervene on a point of order raised by another person, you should use the raised hand function to indicate to the chair that you wish to speak. To do this, click on the participant button at the bottom of your screen. When the list appears, you will see the raised hand option beside your name. Speak slowly and clearly at all times. When you are not speaking, leave your microphone on mute. It is highly recommended that you use a headset with a microphone. You have to remember to switch languages. Should any technical challenges arise, for example, in relation to interpretation, please advise the chair immediately by raising a point of order, and the technical team will work on resolving them. Please note that we may need to suspend during these times in order to correct a problem. I want to remind the honourable members to mute their microphones when they are not speaking. If you get accidentally disconnected, please try to rejoin the meeting with the information you used to join initially. If you are unable to rejoin, please contact our technical support team. Before we get started, please note that in the top right-hand corner of your screen is a button that you can use to change views. Speaker view allows you to focus on the person currently speaking; gallery view allows you to see a larger number of participants. You can click through the multiple pages in the gallery view to see who is on and how many more participants there are. I understand there are no ministerial announcements today. We will now proceed to presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during the meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. In addition, to ensure a petition is considered properly presented, the certificate of the petition and each page of the petition for a petition certified in a previous Parliament should be mailed to the committee no later than 6 p.m. the day before. Now we'll go to presenting petitions. Mr. Genuis.",
"speaker": "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.))"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, five years ago when Parliament passed Bill C-14, then justice minister Jody Wilson-Raybould said that it represented a finely tuned balance between access and safeguards. It also included a five-year review. Petitioners on the first petition I'm presenting are very concerned to see Bill C-7 before Parliament, which removes safeguards ahead of that five-year review. Petitioners specifically mention their concerns about the removal of the mandatory 10-day reflection period, which can already be waived in certain circumstances. They are concerned about reducing the number of witnesses required to oversee it and ensure that a request has been properly made. I commend that petition to the consideration of the House. The second and final petition that I will be presenting today is with respect to Senate Bill S-204. This would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ from a person who did not consent. This responds specifically to concerns about organ harvesting in the People's Republic of China involving Falun Gong practitioners and increasing concerns that this is being or about to be applied to Uighurs as well. Canada can and should take action on this. Petitioners are noting that in the previous Parliament there were bills on this, Bill C-350 and Bill S-240. Now, in this Parliament there is a bill, Bill S-204, and the petitioners hope that this 43rd Parliament will be the one that gets it passed.",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We will go to Ms. May.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's an honour. This is my first occasion to present a petition in our virtual format of the COVID-19 committee. Thank you to you and your staff, Mr. Chair, for developing a system that allows us to present petitions electronically. The petition I am presenting today, which was previously approved, is from a number of constituents who are concerned that we pursue the Paris Agreement to hold the global average temperature increase to no more than 1.5C. The Paris Agreement itself embeds in it the concept of Just Transition with a capital J and a capital T, the concept of just transition ensuring fairness and support for all workers in the fossil fuel sector. The petitioners call upon the Government of Canada to move forward with an act to ensure just transition and to ensure adequate funding so that workers and communities dependent on the fossil fuel sector receive meaningful support to ensure security in their lives in the transition to more sustainable energy use. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP)"
},
{
"content": "Those are all the petitions for today. I want to thank the honourable members for their usual collaboration and now we'll go on to",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "On a point of order, Mr. Chair, on Tuesday, at our COVID-19 committee of the whole meeting, I was asking a question which started at 12:56:06 and was cut off at 1:00:32, so I still have 34 seconds of time remaining in my question time of five minutes. You said it could be no more than five minutes but that I had up to five minutes. Thirty-four seconds leaves a lot of time to have a quick question and a quick response. If you believe that my time was unjustly cut off and that it was unfair treatment of the official opposition when we were raising our points of order, I would ask that the 34 seconds be tacked on to the opening round for the opposition and credited to Rosemarie Falk, who will be leading off for the Conservatives.",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Normally what happens is the chair uses judgment, and with 35 seconds, there isn't enough time obviously for a full question or answer, most of the time. I'll take it under advisement. I can't allot it. I want everyone to know that I do have a timer next to me and I am timing the questions, and I will be treating the answers the same way. If it's a 25-second question, it will be a 25-second answer. Thank you for bringing that up. I believe that issue has been remedied. We've taken a little bit of the chair's ability to give judgment on it, but it will be from now on. Thank you.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, 34 seconds is a considerable amount of time to do a short question and a short answer.",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "I appreciate the advice. Thank you, Mr. Bezan. We'll now proceed to the questioning of ministers. I would like to remind the honourable members that no member will be recognized for more than five minutes at a time and that members may split their time with one or more members by so indicating to the chair. Ministers responding to the questions should do so by simply turning on their microphone and speaking. Our first questioner is Ms. Falk.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, yesterday, Elizabeth May and the leader of the separatists declared oil to be dead. It's certainly not dead, but it's dying under the Trudeau government. Will the Prime Minister stand up for Canada's energy workers, or does he agree with the fringe left and those who want to destroy our country?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk (BattlefordsLloydminster, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I have a point of order.",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May"
},
{
"content": "Go ahead, Ms. May.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I believe that the language that the honourable member just used is unparliamentary",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May"
},
{
"content": "That's not a point of order.",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "We can have differences of opinion, but it is absolutely Some hon. members: Debate. Ms. Elizabeth May: unacceptable and violates my privileges to An hon member: Debate. Ms. Elizabeth May: No, it's not debate. I would ask the chair to rule on that, not the member from the Conservative Party. It is unacceptable to assert that anyone who wants to make a point about our economy is trying to destroy the country. This allegation is a violation of my privilege. An hon. member: She was also named by the",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May"
},
{
"content": "Order. I didn't recognize anyone. I don't know who is speaking, so I'll just start talking myself. I want to remind honourable members to have respect in their questions and in their answers. When you refer to someone, please refer to them respectfully. This is a committee of the House, and I would expect no less of the honourable members. We'll go to the right honourable Prime Minister. You have 16 seconds.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. As I pointed out this morning in my press conference, we cannot move forward on a transformation of our energy sector without supporting the workers in that energy sector. We need their innovation and we need their hard work if we are going to lower our emissions, if we are going to reach our",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to Ms. Falk again.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it has been 43 days since the finance minister promised Canada's energy sector liquidity through the Business Development Bank of Canada. For 43 days the finance minister has failed to deliver on that promise. These delays cost jobs and they are costing us Canadian businesses. If the government doesn't step up to support our energy sector, they are in effect doubling down on their support for foreign, unethically sourced oil. Mr. Chair, when will the credit options be available to Canada's small and medium energy firms?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind honourable members that we do have interpreters who are listening and translating. In consideration to them, please speak at a reasonable pace so that they can understand and then translate. The right honourable Prime Minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, from the very beginning, our priority through this pandemic and this crisis has been to support workers across the country. We have sent billions of dollars to workers right across the country, including Alberta, Saskatchewan, B.C., and Newfoundland and Labrador in the energy sector for them to be able to support their families through this difficult time. We are also working on sectoral supports right across the country. Those will be announced in due course. Our focus from the get-go has been",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll move to Ms. Falk.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, another group that has been ignored by the Liberals is our farmers. The announcements to date fall well short of what is needed to maintain a steady supply of affordable and healthy food. The Canadian Federation of Agriculture has asked the government for a $2.6-billion emergency fund. Instead of responding to specific COVID-19 challenges, our farmers are facing the Liberals' reannounced $125 million that was already budgeted in the AgriRecovery program. Will the Prime Minister finally step up and take our food supply chain seriously, or is agriculture just an afterthought for him?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk"
},
{
"content": "On the contrary, Mr. Chair, we take agriculture and our agricultural sector extremely seriously, which is why we announced hundreds of millions of dollars a couple of days ago to respond to pressing needs. We will continue to make investments to ensure both the safety of workers in our agricultural sector and the safety of our communities, as well as the continued flow of high-quality Canadian food onto our tables right across the country. Supporting the people who produce our food is a priority for this government and will continue to be.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Well, Mr. Chair, recycled program announcements do not respond to the immediate needs facing our farmers. This is absolutely unacceptable. Our farmers are faced with rising operational costs, a disrupted service industry, labour shortages and a reduced capacity at processing plants. The government has a responsibility to take domestic food security seriously. When will the Prime Minister deliver adequate support to address the critical changes facing our ag industry?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I would suggest respectfully that the honourable member take a look once again at the announcement we made, which actually highlights significant new investments to support our agricultural industry. I certainly agree that there is more to do. Every step of the way in this unprecedented situation, we've been moving forward on doing more, on adjusting and on investing more. We need to support our agricultural sector and the people who work so hard to put food on Canadians' tables right across the country and we will continue to.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Canadians expect to find healthy and affordable food at their grocery stores, but if the government does not take action now, that's not a given. Our farmers are trying to keep Canadians fed while keeping their heads above water. The Liberal government's own failed federal carbon tax is weighing them down. It is an enormous hit to their bottom line, and the recent carbon tax hike is taking even more money out of the pockets of farmers at a time when they can afford it the least. Will the Prime Minister exempt all farm operations from the carbon tax and reimburse the money that they have already taken from them?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's a shame to hear the member opposite accidentallyunintentionally, I'm certainmislead the House and Canadians. The price on pollution actually puts more money into Canadians' pockets, and that includes farm families. People who pay the cost of the price on pollution on average receive more money back. This is the way of creating a better future for our kids and grandkids, which I know people in communities right across the country, including our farm communities, want to see happen. We are moving forward in a responsible way to put a price on pollution and put more money in average Canadians' pockets.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We now continue with Mrs.Gill. Mrs.Gill, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. As you know, all sectors of the economy are fragile at the moment, specifically the fisheries. I am thinking about the lobster fishery in the Magdalen Islands, the crab fishery on the Cte-Nord or those fishing for herring in the south of the Gasp. Because imports have ceased, because the domestic market is weak and in decline because of the interruption of the tourism and restaurant industries, the fishing industry and its fishers must be supported. I would like to know what the government has done to support our fishers since the crisis began.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Marilne Gill (Manicouagan, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Our fishers do exceptional work that is extremely important in feeding Canadians and in contributing to our economic success through their exports around the world. This crisis has struck them very hard. That is why we have established measures in the tens of millions of dollars to support our processors. We have also announced help for the fishers. We know that these are difficult and unprecedented times, and we are going to",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "My thanks to the Prime Minister. I am actually talking about help for the fishers. I know about the processing industry and the $62.5million to be used essentially for freezing products, but I am talking about the fishers themselves. Given the economic situation, most of our fishers are getting ready to leave. First, there are health risks. We know very well that it is impossible for them to observe all the social distancing measures. They have to incur additional expenses in order to conduct their normal fishing activities. In addition, they feel that they will be losing money, because of the drop in the price of their resource. They are just as essential as farmers, but they are going to have to work at a loss and they are not going to have workers to assist them. Workers in the seasonal industry do not know what tomorrow will bring. They do not even know whether they will be able to put food on the table next year. Are you going to do anything else, in addition to the assistance of $62.5million? Time is of the essence. Our fishers have lacked certainty for weeks and they are very concerned.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Marilne Gill"
},
{
"content": "Yes, indeed, we are going to do other things. Other investments will be made in various sectors in order to support Canadians. We recognize the challenges that fishers must face in terms of social distancing and of work that is often seasonal. We are going to continue working with the industry, with the fishers, and with the coastal communities in order to ensure that people have confidence in their abilities and in their future. In times of crisis, it is important for the government to be there to support people, and that is exactly what we are going to continue to do. This is an unprecedented crisis, but we can see once more that Canadians are there for each other. Our government will continue to be there for the fishers and the fishing industry.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "I would have preferred us to be there from the start. Clearly, this is a difficult crisis. But, given the cyclical nature of the industry, some sectors have had to postpone for several weeks the preparations they need for fishing activities. The current program could be modified in a number of ways, to accommodate the cycle, the dates, and the size of the companies. They would really like to take advantage of the $40,000loan, but they cannot because of their payroll. Given the dates, they are also ineligible for the 75%salary subsidy. I can already suggest a number of solutions to the government and to the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, that would bring help to those businesses very quickly. The fishers carry on, because it is a duty for them, because they want to help us and to be part of the effort at this time of crisis. At the same time, they have no guarantee that they will be supported. I would really like to hear a guarantee that they will be supported, that they will be able to put food on the table this year, and that they will be able to support the communities that often depend on the fishing industry, a major industry in those communities.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Marilne Gill"
},
{
"content": "Minister Jordan has been working with the fishers, the fishing industry and the communities affected by the crisis since the crisis began. We are assessing a number of solutions. We have proposed various solutions to support the communities, the workers and the families. This is an unprecedented situation. From the outset, our priority has been to support the millions of Canadians from coast to coast who have lost their jobs. We have been able to do so, but we are going to continue to work for those who must now face difficulties. We are going to be there for each other. That is what people are expecting from our government and from other Canadians.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Before we move to the next question, I would like to remind members of the committee to speak slowly, and to address their remarks to the chair and not directly to each other. Thank you very much. We will now go to Mr. Bachrach.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, municipalities across Canada are facing a financial crisis. They've seen revenues plummet, and at the same time the cost of delivering municipal services has risen. As the Prime Minister knows, municipalities are unable to run deficits and so they are facing the reality of cutbacks and serious cuts to the services that Canadians depend on. We know that municipalities are vital during this time to provide services to Canadians. They're going to be even more important during the recovery, especially when it comes to delivering on the infrastructure programs before us. The Federation of Canadian Municipalities and mayors across Canada have called for emergency financial relief for the municipal sector. My question for the Prime Minister is, when can they expect federal financial support to arrive?",
"speaker": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach (SkeenaBulkley Valley, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, no government in Canada's history has done more to work with our municipalities, with our cities, with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities to respond to the challenges they're facing and to partner with them. Things from infrastructure to investments have made a huge difference right across the country in the quality of life of Canadians in towns, large and small, from coast to coast to coast. As I'm sure the member well knows, our Constitution requires that most of the funding for municipalities flow through the provinces. We are working with the provinces, as we continue to work with the cities, to ensure that we're able to support this order of government that delivers the vast majority of services to Canadians with very little financial means. We know how difficult it is for our cities. We will continue",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Bachrach.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it would seem that the federal government has the fiscal capacity and the responsibility to help municipalities weather this crisis. Transit systems have been hit particularly hard and have seen the bulk of the layoffs in the municipal sector. These transit services carry essential workers to work, whether they are health care workers, grocery store workers, janitors or others. The risk is that we will see higher fares to deal with this financial crisis. We will see service cutbacks precisely at a time when we want to be expanding transit and improving transit in our communities. Does the Prime Minister acknowledge that the federal government needs to step in to safeguard and protect Canada's transit services?",
"speaker": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this federal government recognizes how important it is to support all Canadians, which is why we put forward unprecedented measures to help millions upon millions of Canadians with the CERB and with the wage subsidy. We will continue to work with the provinces, which have jurisdiction over the municipalities. I'll be having a conversation with all other first ministers tonight to talk about a broad range of issues. I can highlight that the issue of transit funding has come up. We have continued to engage with them, but again, it is important to respect the Constitution and understand that funding for municipalities and cities does go through the provinces. The federal government is happy to be there to support, but it must be",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We will go to Mr. Bachrach again.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I am wondering how the Prime Minister could explain to a bus driver in Vancouver who has been laid off that as a public sector worker, she can't access the federal wage subsidy, while an equivalent worker in the airline industry gets to keep her job with the federal help of that program. Could the Prime Minister explain how that is fair?",
"speaker": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm happy to explain to the member and to all Canadians that our Constitution creates federal areas of jurisdiction and provincial areas of jurisdiction. The airline industry, like banking, like telecommunications, is a federal area of jurisdiction that we have been able to move forward on. More than that, we brought the Canada emergency response benefit and the wage subsidy to all industries across this country, because we knew that as the federal government, it was something that we needed to step up on",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Bachrach.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'd like to shift gears a little bit. Faced with minimal health care capacity, remote indigenous communities in my riding are taking matters into their own hands. The Nuxalk have put up a checkpoint on Highway 20 to protect community members and prevent non-essential travel. In particular, it is to protect the three remaining fluent speakers of the Nuxalk language, these cherished elders in their community. The Haida on Haida Gwaii have set up a similar checkpoint, as have communities throughout British Columbia, yet federal support for indigenous communities amounts to only $39 million for all of the indigenous communities in B.C. Does the Prime Minister not agree that more support is warranted to help indigenous communities in my riding and across the country?",
"speaker": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, from the very beginning, we made funds available to Canadians right across the country, particularly people in indigenous remote or northern communities who we knew would be facing more difficult challenges because of the existing vulnerabilities in their health care system and socio-economic circumstances. We have made unprecedented investments and we will continue to make the necessary investments, because we need to make sure that indigenous Canadians, and indeed all Canadians, have the supports they need to make it through this crisis.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We will continue with Mr.Berthold. Mr.Berthold, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr.Chair. I am going to keep talking about the area of jurisdiction that the Prime Minister likes to talk about, except that I want to point out the incompetence of the Liberals in keeping their commitments on infrastructure projects. My question is very simple. As the provinces gradually restart their economies, can the Prime Minister tell us how many projects that the provinces have submitted are waiting for approval from his government?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold (MganticL'rable, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I hope that the length of the pause will not be taken out of my time.",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "No, I stopped the clock for your time. Ms.McKenna, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry, Mr.Chair, I was on mute. I'm very pleased with how we are working with the provinces and territories. I have spoken with all of my provincial and territorial counterparts over the last couple of weeks. Work on our historic infrastructure program is progressing well. My department has worked very hard to approve projects, and we will continue to do so. It is very important to build projects that will create good jobs",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna (Minister of Infrastructure and Communities)"
},
{
"content": "We are returning to Mr.Berthold.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "We still haven't had a response. How many projects are currently awaiting government approval? I know that the minister has been meeting virtually with the provinces over the last few days. However, there are still hundreds of projects waiting for approval from the Liberal government. Rather than wait for the right political opportunity to approve these files, will the minister commit today to respecting the provinces and approving by next week all the projects that are sitting on her desk?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I'm pleased with how we are working with the provinces and territories. We are approving projects. If the hon. member speaks to the provinces and territories, he will see how well we are working together. We will announce the approval of projects because it's very important for our economy, our communities and creating good jobs.",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "Does the minister understand that she hasn't told us how many projects are still pending? The construction season is very short. Approval of a project in July means that work can't begin until next year, which won't help revive our economy.",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "I want to make it clear that we have approved hundreds of projects in the last few weeks. We will work with the provinces, territories, municipalities and indigenous communities to implement these projects. These projects are important for the economy and the environment, as well as for jobs",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "We return now to Mr.Berthold.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, while the minister is calling for a green recovery of the country's economy, public transit is at risk. Physical distancing measures will cause public transit use to drop for several months. The Union des municipalits du Qubec estimates that the monthly losses are between $75million and $100million. Other countries have included public transit in pandemic relief programs. Why isn't Canada?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we recognize the importance of public transit for our economy, since some essential workers use public transit. We are working very closely with our counterparts and are listening to the municipalities. As the Prime Minister said, it's the provinces that must help because the money",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "We return now to Mr.Berthold.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, once again, what we're hearing is that the government is passing the buck to the provinces. Unfortunately, the minister was unable to answer a single question about the number of infrastructure projects still on the federal government's desk, which is very important. Several large municipalities are waiting for the approval of projects. Moreover, public transit systems are facing an extremely serious financial crisis. Ridership in most systems is down 85%to90%. The Federation of Canadian Municipalities is asking for help for small communities, as well as large municipalities. Why is the federal government ignoring the municipalities in the Canadian Federation of Municipalities at this time?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I can reassure the hon. member that we are working very closely with the municipalities. We are listening to the municipalities to find out what their issues are and how we can support them. Of course, we need the help of the provinces and territories. In terms of the number of projects that we've approved, I would be happy to inform the hon. member of the exact number of all the approved projects that my department has been working very hard on over the past few months to approve projects to go forward.",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, do I have any time left?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "No, your time is up. We'll now go on to Mr. Fast.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. This question is directed to the Minister of Foreign Affairs. On March 28, the minister personally tweeted out a thank you to the People's Republic of China for donating PPE to Canada. This tweet happened within three hours of China's announcement of that gift. As it turned out, much of the PPE was defective and could not be used. More recently, Taiwan donated half a million surgical masks to Canada, yet here we are, two weeks later, and the minister has yet to personally thank Taiwan for its generosity. Will the minister now thank this free and democratic country for its generous gift to Canadians?",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank my colleague for the question. Indeed, we are very grateful to every nation for helping Canada. This is a global pandemic that knows no borders. We have been expressing our thanks to many nations that have contributed. We will continue to do so. It is important in a time of pandemic, Mr. Chair, that we not play politics and that humanity comes together. I can say, after my COVID foreign ministers call, that the world community has come together to make sure that supply chains will remain intact and that we will have transit hubs and air bridges. We will continue to work with every nation when it comes to health. This is a public good. We want to work together with everyone.",
"speaker": "Hon. Franois-Philippe Champagne (Minister of Foreign Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Fast now.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Well, Mr. Chair, I didn't hear a thank you there, so I'm going to try again. On May 4, the Government of Taiwan delivered 25,000 surgical masks to the Government of British Columbia. On hand were B.C. Minister of Citizens' Services Anne Kang and Minister of State for Child Care Katrina Chen, who, as ministers, officially thanked the Government of Taiwan for its donation. Again, will the minister now do the right thing and, on behalf of Canadians, recognize the generosity of Taiwan and thank its government for that timely donation?",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I said to you before, Canada is grateful to all who have given supplies to Canada. This is a common endeavour. We are thankful. We are grateful to every nation and we will continue to be. As I said, when it comes to global health, when it comes to helping each other, I think it is a duty for all to come together. We are grateful and thankful for all those who have agreed to help Canada and Canadians from coast to coast to coast in times of need. I've repeated that and have said many times in many forums that we are grateful and thankful to all of those who are helping Canada.",
"speaker": "Hon. Franois-Philippe Champagne"
},
{
"content": "Well, Mr. Chair, again there was no specific thank you to Taiwan. The Government of Taiwan has been the world leader in successfully fighting the COVID-19 pandemic. We have a lot to learn from them and their response. Sadly, the People's Republic of China continues to oppose Taiwan's membership in the World Health Organization. Will the minister now do the right thing and assure Canadians that he will fully support efforts to grant Taiwan membership in the World Health Organization?",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the member. As a former trade minister, he's very well aware of Canada's one China policy. That said, we support Taiwan to continue meaningful participation in international multilateral forums, particularly when it comes to health. This is a global good, and we want to support every nation. We recognize that Taiwan and others have been doing very well in fighting this pandemic. We also believe that Taiwan's role as an observer in the World Health Assembly meeting is of interest to the international health community and we have been supportive of that.",
"speaker": "Hon. Franois-Philippe Champagne"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm going to pivot to repatriation flights. The minister has publicly said that over 20,000 stranded Canadians have been repatriated from abroad. Can he tell us exactly how many Canadians remain abroad who have expressed a desire to be repatriated?",
"speaker": "Hon. Ed Fast"
},
{
"content": "Yes, Mr. Chair, I am very happy to update members. As of today, we have repatriated more than 20,000 Canadians on 232 flights from 87 countries. I would say that this is team Canada, and it knows no parties. Many members have written to me to make sure that we take care. It's not an exact science. We have, as I said, repatriated thousands and thousands. We continue, because we know there are still pockets of Canadian travellers who are stranded abroad. As the Prime Minister and I have said from the beginning, we will make our best effort to repatriate everyone who wants to come back home during the crisis.",
"speaker": "Hon. Franois-Philippe Champagne"
},
{
"content": "We'll go on to Mr. Moore now.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Canadians need to have faith in their justice system, even in a time of crisis. My office has received correspondence from Canadians concerned that trial delays due to COVID-19 may result in criminals walking free. As this government has been working overtime to criminalize law-abiding citizens with new and useless gun laws, will the Minister of Justice ensure that real criminals will not walk free as a result of delays in the justice system?",
"speaker": "Hon. Rob Moore (Fundy Royal, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I thank the honourable member for his question. We have been working with my provincial counterparts across Canada, as well as with the various federal courts and also, through my provincial counterparts, with the superior courts and courts of appeal across Canada. Each particular jurisdiction has taken measures to ensure that basic essential services within the court system are maintained, through a variety of means, and we believe that we will be able to solve these various challenges.",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the regional relief and recovery fund was announced weeks ago as a way to help small and medium-sized businesses in rural communities, like those in my riding. In Atlantic Canada, these funds were to be distributed to the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency. This is yet another announcement with no details from this Liberal government. Can the minister clarify whether we are days away or weeks away from this support flowing to the businesses that need it so desperately?",
"speaker": "Hon. Rob Moore"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I had the chance to talk with many of the chambers of commerce and business owners throughout Atlantic Canada, and we hear their anxiety. That's why ACOA's doing great work on the ground to make sure we can help them through this very difficult period. The member is right. We have increased the budget of ACOAgood newsand I'll be coming up with the details very soon. It will be a pleasure to collaborate with him to make sure that we can help many businesses and business owners across the Atlantic region.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly (Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, my office has heard from many small business owners who have reached out to me. I know many have reached out to many of my colleagues and probably to all of us here today. They are frustrated by the eligibility requirements for some of the federal programs. In particular, they are unable to access the emergency business account, because they do not have a payroll. This could be the hair salon in my riding that subcontracts out its chairs. There are hundreds and thousands of small businesses in this very situation, vital small businesses in our communities, but they do not meet this requirement. These businesses, many of them, are weeks away from shutting down permanently. What does the Minister of Finance have to say to these small businesses that are suffering right now?",
"speaker": "Hon. Rob Moore"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank my honourable colleague for that really important question. I want all the businesses that he is talking about and all of them throughout the country to know that we continue to work very hard to make sure they're supported through this difficult period. More work needs to be done, and we will continue to do that work. We know that businesses are being supported through getting access to the wage subsidy to keep their employees together, and they're getting help, whether it's with rent or to defray costs by deferring GST and HST or customs duty payments. We're going to continue to work with all our businesses across the country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to Mr. Moore for a brief question. You have less than 20 seconds, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's a very specific issue. There are small businesses, thousands of them, that do not have a payroll. Some have a personal account that they've dealt with over the years rather than a business account, and that makes them ineligible. These businesses need help right now.",
"speaker": "Hon. Rob Moore"
},
{
"content": "I agree with the honourable member. Those businesses absolutely need support from us. We are going to keep working to ensure they are supported.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to Mr. Cumming next.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, small businesses are concerned about their ability to survive, and no amount of deferrals, loans or subsidies can substitute for their need to be open and servicing their customers. Can the government confirm that a sectoral risk analysis has taken place to assist the provinces in reopening the economy?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Cumming (Edmonton Centre, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can assure the member that we've been very clear in terms of our strategy around reopening the economy. We need to make sure that we follow the advice of the experts and the health authorities to do so in a manner that does not compromise the health and well-being of Canadians. We of course will have a sectoral lens, and as you can see by some of the initiatives and the support packages we've put forward",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains (Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Cumming now.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, thousands of business owners make a living and utilize dividends as their salary. They also use independent contractors. Can the government confirm that the programs currently in place will be expanded to these hard-working Canadians?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Cumming"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to assure the honourable member that we continue to work with all of our small businesses and I want to thank him for raising this very important issue. I want to assure our Canadian small businesses that we are going to continue to do this work to make sure they are supported.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Can the minister give me a date when she will be able to announce to these businesses that they will be eligible?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Cumming"
},
{
"content": "I want to assure our Canadian small businesses of their importance and of the importance of their contributions to all of our communities. I want them to know that we continue to listen and that we will ensure that they are supported and continue to be supported during this difficult time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Minister, they need more than assurance. Can you give me a date when I can tell these thousands of businesses they will be supported if they pay dividends or if they use contractors within their businesses?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Cumming"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, these businesses are absolutely important and are getting support through a range of means. We will continue to work with these businesses to make sure they are supported through this difficult period.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I spoke to a Second Cup owner whose landlord is not offering any kind of rent relief. The landlord says that he doesn't have the 25% needed to be eligible for the program because he's already paying for common area costs and deferrals on utilities, which he will have to pay on his mortgage. Will the government reform the rent relief program to focus on tenants and not just the landlords?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Cumming"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to let the member know that we are working to make sure that the details of the emergency program for rent are out there so that both tenants and landlords can understand the situation. We're seeing a significant number of both landlords and tenants coming forward to register for this program, and we are convinced that it will be in the best interests of landlords to move forward and give tenants this relief.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we've been hearing, however, from small business owners that their landlords don't find the government's rent relief program appealing enough. Can the government confirm, given the program's low eligibility rate, that the program will be expanded and be more efficient in helping tenants?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Cumming"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we recognize that it's critically important that all of the details of this program be out there for landlords and tenants to understand. Those details are being worked on right now. This is a program that we've put out within the last week, and we are confident that it's in the best interests of tenants and landlords.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, during these trying times for small businesses, small businesses need all the help they can get. One easy way to do that would be to expand the Canada summer jobs program to businesses with over 50 employees. Will the government consider doing so to allow students to gain that very valuable work experience over the coming months?",
"speaker": "Mr. James Cumming"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are very excited about the uptake of the Canada summer jobs program this year. The second uptake provided employers across the country with the ability to add their needs for students to the mix. I'm looking forward to announcing a possible expansion of this program in the coming days.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion)"
},
{
"content": "The next question session will go to Mr. Dowdall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. During this pandemic, the government has consistently called for a team Canada, non-partisan approach, and I was glad to hear that said a little earlier today. In fact, the public has called for that approach as well. However, at the same time, the current government has used a parliamentary back door to launch a poorly thought out gun ban. We have a government that didn't win the popular vote, and I'm just wondering how I explain to my residents, because I'm getting so many calls, that this is not a bloated response because, quite frankly, it is.",
"speaker": "Mr. Terry Dowdall (SimcoeGrey, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "First of all, Mr. Chair, I think the honourable member can explain to his constituents that the forming of regulations through order in council is actually the process prescribed in law in Canada under section 117.15 of the Criminal Code. I would also invite the member to advise his constituents that way back in 1991, when there were some Conservatives who called themselves Progressive, the Mulroney government brought forward, in Bill C-17, the authority under that section for an order in council to prescribe specific makes, models and variants of military firearms as prohibited or restricted. The Harper government used the same tool",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair (Scarborough Southwest, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Dowdall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure, but I'm hoping, that I'll get an honest answer on this question from the minister, who has everything from rocket launchers to basically toy guns on the ban list. When will we get the cost of this buyback program?",
"speaker": "Mr. Terry Dowdall"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind the honourable members to please be careful in their language when they are referring to others. I won't comment on this one particularly, but I want all of you to be very, very careful when referring to other members. The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "It's a good opportunity, Mr. Chair, to respond to some of the obfuscations and deceptions that have been put out there. We're not banning any toys and we're not banning shotguns. That's all misinformation that's being put out. I think it's very clear, and I invite the member to look at the list of weapons that are",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Dowdall.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. What will be the cost of the buyback program, please?",
"speaker": "Mr. Terry Dowdall"
},
{
"content": "Actually, I'm very much looking forward to bringing forward legislation as soon as the House resumes. We will have a vigorous debate in Parliament about the form a buyback will take and we will bring forward a budget at that time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Will those with illegal weapons be eligible for the buyback program?",
"speaker": "Mr. Terry Dowdall"
},
{
"content": "If people are illegally in possession of the weapons and they're committing a crime, they will be dealt with for the crimes they commit.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I'm going to switch it over. Canadians in my riding who suffer from cystic fibrosis are among the most vulnerable to COVID-19 infection. While these Canadians with existing lung conditions are incredibly worried about a virus that attacks the ability to breathe, the good news is that there are life-saving medicines for those with CF. The problem is with the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board and its restrictive guidelines. I am wondering if and when the government will correct these guidelines and give access to life-saving medicines for our most vulnerable.",
"speaker": "Mr. Terry Dowdall"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as you know, the government has been very committed to improving access and affordability for prescription medications for all Canadians. The PMPRB regulatory amendments will help Canadians be able to afford their prescriptions, and Canada will continue to be an important market for new medicines. In fact, many countries with much lower medicine prices gained access to new medicines in the same time frame as Canada frame, or even faster, so we are excited to do this work.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our seniors are being particularly hard hit right now during this pandemic, yet seniors have not been given any direct support. It's one of the number one calls I'm getting in my office. Funding to charities like the United Way is being labelled as support for seniors, but most won't see any of this support. Seniors in my riding have asked for an increase in their CPP and OAS, and to be able to make untaxed bulk withdrawals from their RRSPs while they still have some value. Can the minister confirm when these real and direct supports for seniors will be forthcoming?",
"speaker": "Mr. Terry Dowdall"
},
{
"content": "I want to assure the honourable member and Canadians that our government has been working extremely hard on how best to support and serve seniors during this pandemic. He mentioned . I'm not quite sure what's happening with my machine. I apologize.",
"speaker": "Hon. Deb Schulte (Minister of Seniors)"
},
{
"content": "You might want to try your space bar and keep it down while you're speaking. That might solve the problem.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Okay, I'll try that. Thank you very much. I want to assure the honourable member and Canadians that our government has been working extremely hard on how best to support and serve seniors during this pandemic. We have introduced a supplementary GST payment for low- and modest-income seniors. We've reduced the minimum RRIF withdrawal by 25%, and we've made the CERB available to working seniors who have lost their jobs due to the COVID pandemic. We know there's more work to do, and we'll have more to say in the future.",
"speaker": "Hon. Deb Schulte"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind honourable members that if there are issues, we are taking note of them, and we'll hopefully resolve them by the next meeting. We are getting much better, and we're all new at this. Thank you for your patience. We'll now go to Ms.Gaudreau.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. My first question is for the Prime Minister. We've heard a lot about contact tracing apps. Several provinces have already made announcements on this, and others want to follow suit. Today, I'd like to know where the government stands on this. We've been talking about a national strategy for some time. Where are we now?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marie-Hlne Gaudreau (LaurentidesLabelle, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Obviously, contact tracing is an important part of managing any outbreak. In fact, we have been looking at a number of ways to support increased contact tracing across the country, including working with provinces and territories to boost their capacity through human resources and volunteer organizations. We are working very closely with them to make sure we have the capacity. The member is right that many other countries have used digital contact tracing apps. Anything we put forward as a digital tool to assist with contact tracing would be thoroughly considerate of Canadians' privacy rights.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Let me clarify my question a little. Yes, we are talking about public health, and we are currently experiencing a crisis. But you know as well as I do that the Privacy Commissioner has been calling us to task for a very long time now, because there is also a crisis of confidence. You know as well as I do that for 90%of Canadians, the misuse of their personal data is a cause for concern, whether it be for profiling or business development purposes. This is an issue that concerns all Canadians. The commissioner is indeed calling for a focus on reform of the Privacy Act. I'd like to know whether this commitment will be implemented quickly so that legislation can be passed on this issue, in this case the Privacy Act.",
"speaker": "Ms. Marie-Hlne Gaudreau"
},
{
"content": "Particular attention must be paid to transparency, privacy and ethical concerns. Naturally, Canadians are concerned about how their data is used. New technologies are subject to the Privacy Act.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "We're talking about public health. The provinces are currently in the process of legislating. We're talking about what is going on in Quebec, among other places, and I would like to make sure that the federal government commits to respecting the proposals regarding geolocation and contact tracing possibilities, with full respect for the right to privacy. Can we commit to respecting the provinces?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marie-Hlne Gaudreau"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have worked very closely with provinces and territories for a long time before the outbreak, but certainly ever since the outbreak. We respect the rights of jurisdictional authorities to use tools that have been properly vetted through their own provincial and territorial legislation. Nothing we would ever do at the federal level would put Canadians' privacy in jeopardy.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Concerning privacy, there are 30million Quebeckers and Canadians who have had their personal data leaked. Why is it that our laws don't allow us to apply financial penalties so that we can then go further? The very basis is to be concerned about our fundamental rights. The commissioner has been making this request for several years now. As the critic for access to information and privacy, I'd like a commitment that the federal government will deal not with what the provinces are doing, but with the Privacy Act.",
"speaker": "Ms. Marie-Hlne Gaudreau"
},
{
"content": "Your time is up, but I'll give the floor to the minister for 30seconds.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for the question. Our government will ensure the privacy of Canadians is respected, support responsible innovation and take reasonable steps to strengthen enforcement powers. That's why we created a digital charter. We are strengthening Canada's privacy laws in response to the digital age.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Baker.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'll be sharing my time with the member for Malpeque. Mr. Chair, my question is for the Minister of Seniors. Minister, in my riding of Etobicoke Centre, we are mourning the loss of 40 residents to COVID-19 at the Eatonville long-term care centre. Over 143 residents and 88 staff members have now tested positive for the virus. This tragedy is not only taking place in Etobicoke Centre but across Canada. Of all Canadians who have died from COVID-19, 79% were living in long-term care homes. That's over 2,000 seniors. This is a catastrophe, and it's frankly unacceptable. Our seniors and their families deserve better. I understand that long-term care homes fall within the jurisdiction of provincial governments in Canada, but this is a crisis. What is the federal government doing right now to help protect our seniors who are living in long-term care homes from COVID-19? What will we do to reform our long-term care homes in the future to ensure that our seniors in Etobicoke Centre and across Canada get the care they deserve?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yvan Baker (Etobicoke Centre, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to my colleague from Etobicoke Centre for his very thoughtful question. We are deeply concerned by the outbreaks of COVID-19 in long-term care facilities, and our thoughts are with those who have lost a loved one. It's a very difficult time. As my colleague mentioned, while these facilities are regulated by provinces and territories, we have been focused on protecting the health and safety of long-term care residents and staff while working with our partners in a team Canada approach. We've released guidelines to prevent and control COVID-19 infections. We're working with the provinces and territories to cost-share a temporary salary top-up for long-term care workers. We are working through investing $2 billion to secure personal protective equipment for the health of workers, including those in the long-term care homes, and we've deployed the Canadian Armed Forces to assist 25 long-term care homes in Quebec and Ontario. We all have a role to play to stop the spread of COVID-19 and to protect our seniors and caregivers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Deb Schulte"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Easter.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. At the finance committee, we've heard a lot of concerns from all sectors of the economy as a result of COVID-19 and we've been presented with quite a number of possible solutions as well, several of which the government has acted upon. My question is on the support offered to the agri-food sector announced on Tuesday. It is very welcome support, but I sincerely believe the farm sector will be taking the Prime Minister up on the suggestion that $250 million should be seen as an initial investment. Potatoes are the number one commodity in Prince Edward Island. However, as a result of reduced processor contracts for next year, plus cancelled seed contracts, millions of dollars of seed and process potatoes have no home. To make matters worse, farmers have high fixed costs that they now have to spread over fewer acres. How does the minister see Tuesday's announcement addressing potato farmers' concerns? Second, in 2013, long-term financial safety nets were gutted by the Harper government. Will the minister be coming forward with improved business risk management programs as a result?",
"speaker": "Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank Mr. Easter, the member for the riding of Malpeque on Prince Edward Island. It's a beautiful rural riding with lots of agricultural production. I want to recognize the hard work of farmers throughout the crisis. On Tuesday, I was proud to announce one more step for supporting our producers and processors. We know the importance of our potato farmers, and that's why we are launching a first-ever surplus food purchase program, a $50-million fund designed to help redistribute existing inventories, such as potatoes, to local food organizations. On the financial safety net that we have in place for our farmers, called the business risk management program, we announced up to $125 million in funding through AgriRecovery and made changes to AgriStability that will help producers quickly. I will continue to discuss with my provincial counterparts toenhance and improve the BRM programs. In the meantime, I want to reiterate that BRM programs, including AgriInvest, are there to help farmers in difficult times.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go on to Mr. Johns now.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, small businesses across Canada closed their doors to stop the spread and for public health. Now they're currently hanging off the edge of a cliff waiting for financial help. Robyn, who has owned Arbutus Health in Tofino for over 13 years, can't apply for the Canada emergency business account loan, simply because she doesn't have a payroll of over $20,000. All of her practitioners are paid contractors, so she is ineligible. With no business income and without emergency financing, it is virtually impossible for her to pay her bills or come up with the 25% needed for the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program. The government promised to be flexible and willing to adjust its COVID response rollout so that nobody falls through the cracks, but Robyn, like tens of thousands of proprietors who are the economic job creators of our communities, urgently needs the government's help now. Will the government amend its programs to help more business owners so that people like Robyn don't lose their businesses?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gord Johns (CourtenayAlberni, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank the honourable member for his really good question. I know he and I have talked about this, and I appreciate the input and the feedback that he is providing from business directly. I want to assure Robyn and her businesses, and many businesses across the country, that we are absolutely listening, and we will continue to make sure we are supporting those businesses during this period. We know that many businesses are being helped through the Canada emergency business account. There are well over 550,000 businesses that are getting support through this emergency business account. We also know that more has to be done, and we will continue to work with you and businesses across the country so that we can indeed give them that necessary support to weather this difficult period of COVID-19.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, that's not going to help Robyn feel comfort. I was talking to Heather last night, who also owns a business in Tofino, Basic Goodness Pizzeria, with her partner Marco. Like many proprietors of family businesses who aren't on payroll, they don't qualify for the business loans. They don't qualify for the wage subsidy because they're a seasonal business. Now with the new rollout of the rent support, they're not sure if their landlord is willing to play ball and even apply. That's three separate programs that leave them out. Heather was in tears last night as she told me that they have done nothing wrong to deserve being excluded from these emergency programs. I agree. Will the government fix the rent support program so that tenants can apply, instead of leaving it up to landlords, and so businesses can get the help they desperately need?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gord Johns"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we've been working on this program since the beginning. We've been working on offering a response for small businesses and charities and non-profit organizations, and we are continuing to listen on the ground to how we can better assist the businesses that fall through the cracks. We will continue to do that as we go along in this emergency situation. Thank you very much to the honourable member for sharing the realities of his constituents.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier (OttawaVanier, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, when the government rolled out its commercial rent support program, why didn't it negotiate an eviction moratorium with the provinces, as Australia and other countries did, to protect business owners?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gord Johns"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as we know, Canadians are taking action and fighting against COVID-19. We know that many small businesses are worried about being able to pay rent. We've recognized it and we've been working with the provinces and territories to implement the Canada emergency commercial rent",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Johns.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "To qualify for the Canada emergency wage subsidy, a 30% drop in revenue has to be shown. Anyone who's owned a business knows that even with this program, it's going to be hard to survive. Why is the government using a 70% measurement drop to qualify for the rent support program, but a 30% drop for the wage subsidy?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gord Johns"
},
{
"content": "Again, Mr. Chair, thank you to the honourable member for sharing his views on this program. We've been working with provinces and territories to provide forgivable loans to commercial property owners, who in turn lower the rents for their tenants by 75%. We're hoping that tenants and landlords will be working together so we can support businesses during this very difficult crisis.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Before we move on to the next question, Mr.Berthold, did you have a question or a point of order?",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I have a point of order. I checked the clock from the first round of five minutes, and as you may recall, it took a very long time for me to get an answer from the government. I went back and forth with MinisterMcKenna for four minutes and 14seconds.",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "Just a moment. The interpretation isn't coming through. It's working now. Go ahead, Mr.Berthold.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I'll start over. During my first turn, it took 50seconds before a government minister deigned to answer my questions. After checking my time, I realized that the discussion between Ms.McKenna and I went on for four minutes and 14seconds, so I wasn't able to ask the minister one final question, a very important one. I would ask you to take that into account and allow me to ask MinisterMcKenna one last question, please.",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "The person chairing the meeting uses their judgment and does their best to keep an eye on what's going on. They try to be as fair as possible. I'll try to do a better job. I think it's more or less equal for all the members, but I apologize if the honourable member feels that he was denied a few seconds. Our next question goes to Mr. Doherty.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Canada-U.S. border agreement is set to expire on May 20. Will the two governments renew the current agreement, or will it be modified?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty (CaribooPrince George, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The decision to close the border was made in Canada by Canadians in the best interest of Canadians. We're continuing to monitor the situation carefully.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "When will the government be in a position to inform Canadians of any changes to the agreement?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "I'm pleased to advise the member that we're continuing to monitor the situation, but I'm strongly of the opinion that the circumstances on both sides of our border do not indicate that this is the right time to make a change in the restrictions.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Can the government confirm whether there are any discussions about reopening the border to certain modes of transportation and restricting others?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "Before I go to the minister, I want to remind the honourable members that we do have translators, and they are trying to translate. With respect to them, I know we're trying to get as many questions in as possible, but they do have to translate them, so please be considerate of our interpreters. The honourable minister has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Let me please inform the honourable member that we are, of course, aware that the current agreement expires. I had a long conversation yesterday with the Prime Minister",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "When will the government announce a relief package for Canada's aviation industry?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "We are engaged with the industry, and we are working with them on a solution, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, will this relief package include funding for airline ticket refunds similar to what other countries around the world have done? Yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "It's early to say anything at this moment. We're taking a sectoral approach. This is about making sure that we restart the economy and have a strong recovery.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "Can the Minister of Transport confirm that temperature screening is taking place at Canadian airports. Yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can confirm that Air Canada has now adopted a policy of checking temperatures for passengers boarding Air Canada flights.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau (Minister of Transport)"
},
{
"content": "At which airports is that, and when did this practice start?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the announcement was made recently by Air Canada. It will start shortly and will apply to all places and destinations where Air Canada flies.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this is for the Minister of Transport. Last week I asked the Minister of Labour if they were aware of a letter written on April 6 by CUPE to the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Labour. Minister, were you aware of that letter?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind the honourable members to place their questions through the Chair and not directly.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I didn't understand the reference to a letter from CUPE. Could my colleague please clarify?",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "On April 6, CUPE wrote a letter to the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Labour. Is the minister aware of that letter?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, could my colleague clarify what CUPE is referring to?",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "CUPE is the labour organization that represents thousands of flight attendants across our country.",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I do understand. Yes, I will confirm that CUPE, which represents the flight attendants, did write to us. Before that I had conversations with CUPE with respect to flight attendants and the use of personal protective equipment.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "Can the minister confirm whether or not they have provided PPE to the flight attendants and/or training for front-line staff for airlines and airports?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the airlines are providing PPE to flight attendants and flight crews. This has become a policy to ensure the safety not only of passengers on board but also of the flight attendants and flight crew.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, a business owner from Quesnel wrote to my office recently. He stated that he couldn't give his small business tenants a break on rent because the government is penalizing him for paying off his mortgage. When will the government change the CECRA rules to help more businesses?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as you know, we laid out the CECRA program just last week, and we are encouraging landlords to take that opportunity to support the renters. We will continue to look at how we can provide some relief to small businesses with rents.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "With all due respect, Mr. Chair, any landlord who does not have a mortgage on their business is ineligible for CECRA. Is the minister aware of this, and are they trying to revise the CECRA program?",
"speaker": "Mr. Todd Doherty"
},
{
"content": "As you know, we've been working with provinces and territories to present that program. Of course, we will continue to monitor how this program works for landlords and tenants. We are asking, actually encouraging, landlords to do their part and help tenants, like the one you mentioned, go through this.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to the next questioner. Go ahead, Ms. Dancho.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Small businesses in Manitoba employ 73% of Manitobans. That's over 286,000 Manitobans. I've been speaking with many small business owners in my riding. It's been heartbreaking, frankly, to hear that everything they've built and sacrificed for is in serious jeopardy, and through no fault of their own. Your government has created programs that are supposed to help them, but many legitimate businesses aren't able to apply. That could mean bankruptcy and cost thousands of Manitobans jobs. This is wrong. I'm hoping to hear specifics, not just nice words, on what you're going to do to help them. There are three issues regarding access to the $40,000 CEBA loan. First, businesses that recently incorporatedfor example, in late 2019are unable to apply their entire 2019 payroll. As a result, many are falling short of the $20,000 payroll threshold required to qualify for this loan. Second, many businesses contract their employees rather than have them on payroll. They also are unable to qualify for this loan. Third, many businesses use personal rather than business banking accounts. They aren't able to qualify for this loan either. What is your government going to do about these three scenarios?",
"speaker": "Ms. Raquel Dancho (KildonanSt. Paul, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I just want to remind honourable members to place their questions through the Chair and not directly to the minister. As well, please take into consideration the interpreters, who have to listen and translate, so that we can have this conversation.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank the honourable member for that question. Right from the very beginning, we've always said that we will listen and that we will work to make sure that measures go out to help our Canadian small businesses. She's absolutely right: 98% of all our businesses in this country are small businesses, so they absolutely contribute enormously to our communities and are job creators. That is why we have put out significant measures. For the Canada emergency business account, over 550,000 small businesses have been approved and are getting that support. I absolutely acknowledge that there is more work to do. I can assure the honourable member that we will continue to do this work so that businesses, all businesses, are supported, whether it is helping keep your employees together, helping with rent support, helping to keep your business's expenses low, or of course helping with the capital that is needed so that you can pay your operating expenses and your bills through this difficult time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I didn't hear any answers from the minister's remarks, unfortunately. Moving on, there are two issues regarding the 50% commercial rent assistance subsidy, where landlords pay 25%, the government pays 50%, and the tenant is responsible for 25%. First, many of the small landlords aren't able to take a 25% hit to their income, and are unable to provide the subsidy to their tenants. Second, with the 70% decline in revenue threshold for small businesses to even be eligible for the rent assist, many restaurants are at 65% or 67% decline. They desperately need this subsidy but aren't able to qualify. This is not about problems with the program details. What is the government planning to do to streamline this program for small businesses that can't access but desperately need the rent subsidy?",
"speaker": "Ms. Raquel Dancho"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as the Minister of Official Languages, I just want to raise the fact that interpretation is very complicated right now. In order to make sure that we can continue to uphold bilingualism within the House, I would love it if my colleagues could take down the pace a bit. That would help the interpreters a whole lot. They are working very hard and trying to keep up.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly"
},
{
"content": "That's a reasonable request. I just want to remind everyone again that when you're asking a question, make sure you are doing it at a pace at which you're considering the people who are interpreting",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this is how fast I speak when we're in the House of Commons. It's just how I talk.",
"speaker": "Ms. Raquel Dancho"
},
{
"content": "I understand. I have a lot of friends who speak very quickly.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Right. I understand. Perhaps we could get back to my question about the rent subsidy.",
"speaker": "Ms. Raquel Dancho"
},
{
"content": "We stopped the time. You're not losing any time on this one.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I will try to speak more slowly.",
"speaker": "Ms. Raquel Dancho"
},
{
"content": "I appreciate it. Thank you. The interpreters appreciate it. Now we'll go to the minister, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "As you know, we've been working with the provinces and territories to provide this forgivable loan to commercial property owners, who in turn lower the rent of their tenants by 75%. We will continue to monitor how this program is delivered, as we announced it last week. It will be offered pretty soon. It will be very important that we understand what happens across the country, and we will monitor and adapt the program as we",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it has been in the media quite a bit that this rent subsidy is not helping many, many, many small business owners. It's falling short of everything that was announced, so I think it needs to be taken a bit more seriously than that. There are two issues regarding the 75% wage subsidy. First, employers who pay themselves and their employees dividends rather than wages are unable to qualify. Second, there is also a 30% threshold revenue decline needed in order to apply. Many of the businesses in my riding are at 27% or 29%. They desperately need these funds but are unable to qualify. What is the government planning to do for these small businesses?",
"speaker": "Ms. Raquel Dancho"
},
{
"content": "Again, thank you to the hon. member for sharing the realities she's hearing from small business owners. We are providing help and support for businesses through these very difficult times. The wage subsidy has been taken up and is working for many businesses. We know that some still fall through the cracks and we will look at how we can continue to support businesses across the country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We are now going to Mr. Kevin Waugh.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends (BrossardSaint-Lambert, Lib.))"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. Three weeks ago, on April 17, the Minister of Canadian Heritage announced funding of $500 million to assist Canada's arts, sports and cultural sectors. We are still waiting to hear who is eligible and when they can expect to receive this funding.",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh (SaskatoonGrasswood, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we will be releasing the details of that announcement, and how the money is going to be spent, in the coming days.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Canadian Heritage)"
},
{
"content": "We all know that many media organizations, large and small, in Canada are struggling right now. Allegations have arisen that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, CBC, is currently engaging in predatory behaviour and taking advantage of the current situation to harm its competitors using rate cuts. We've seen this from the province of Quebec. Many journalists have talked about this. What is the government going to do to address these allegations against the CBC?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we have not been informed of these allegations. We will look into this, and we will get back to the hon. colleague if we do find any valuable information.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "Local community and ethnic media outlets and papers have strong ties to their communities that often go much deeper than the major media outlets. Is the government currently using any local or ethnic media outlets to provide crucial coronavirus information through advertising?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I totally agree with my colleague. We need to get the information to Canadians on COVID-19, which is why we have started an ad-buy campaign of $30 million, which is being distributed in more than 900 local, regional and national newspapers across the country and 500 radio and TV stations in 12 different languages, including Farsi, Mandarin, Spanish, Italian and many more.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Minister, I talked to the Winnipeg Free Press yesterday. It has received two ads from an ad agency in connection with the $30 million the government is doling out to help media outlets. They had one ad on March 27. The second ad was on April 11. That is two ads in the Winnipeg Free Press in the last eight weeks. Is this the kind of money you're attempting to dole out to help media: two ads in eight weeks?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we have been doing a number of things for our media in Canada over the last few months and will continue to do so. On top of that $30 million ad-buy campaign, we have been investing $50 million in local journalism. Just this year, it means that 200 journalists will be hired in areas across the country where journalism is more poorly defined. The federal government has paid part I licence fees of our broadcasters to the CRTC. That means $30 million is staying in the pockets of our broadcasters.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, last week, as the minister would know, 15 community newspapers, including eight in Manitoba and seven in the province of Ontario, closed their doors for good. Is the government currently planning any further measures aimed at assisting community or ethnic media organizations? We understand that many more will close their doors within the next 30 to 60 days.",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "We are planning a number of other measures, some of which will be included in the $500 million. I will be announcing the details of that in the coming days. Of the $595 million that the media will receive, we have a tax credit that has now entered into force, and the cheques should be in the mail by the end of the summer. So there are a number of things we've done and a number of things we will be doing in the coming months as well.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Waugh, you may have a short question.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Well, finally, you have the five members associated with that committee to dole out the $595 million. They haven't even met yet. When will they meet?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "I would like to remind my hon. colleague that in order for us to provide tax breaks for the 2019 period, media outlets had to file their tax returns so we could go ahead. This will now be able to proceed, Madam Chair.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "We now move on to Mr.Godin. Mr.Godin, you may go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, MadamChair. This being the first time I've had the floor during a virtual sitting of Parliament, I'd like to take this opportunity to greet my fellow members, all 259participants. I hope they are taking care of themselves. I'd like to talk about the Prime Minister's appearance on the show Tout le monde en parle. This is what he had to say about his economic recovery plan: We are going to remain focused on the economy as a wholeinnovationresearch and science, the green economy and a fairer economyThere are things we are all reflecting on right now that reflection is going to continue. That was a weak answer. It didn't inspire much confidence. Can the government assure Canadians that it is being proactive and working on a plan to get the economy moving again? It must act now. Things are starting to reopen gradually. Is the government going to take concrete action to revive the economy?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jol Godin (PortneufJacques-Cartier, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Yes, absolutely. Our government is wholly committed to restarting the economy, and we are working closely with the provinces to do just that. Last week, our government, together with the provincial and territorial premiers, released the principles that will guide efforts to restore economic activity across the country. That is key. The discussion between the Prime Minister and the premiers is continuing today.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, before we go any further, since it took a while for the minister, or the government, to answer the question, can I have that time back to ask questions?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jol Godin"
},
{
"content": "I stopped the clock, Mr.Godin.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. The Prime Minister's answer during his appearance on Tout le monde en parle didn't inspire much confidence and doesn't line up with the Deputy Prime Minister's comments. How can the government be proud of announcing $252million in assistance for the agri-food sector, when that is less than 1% of all the program funding the government has committed to help Canadians get through the COVID-19 crisis? Clearly, the government doesn't see the food supply chain as a priority and has no regard for farmers and pork and beef producers. Does the government realize that eating is vital to Canadians? When is the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food going to adjust the program and show respect for Canadian farmers?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jol Godin"
},
{
"content": "I have the utmost respect for farmers. We are going step by step. We've already confirmed various supports for the agricultural sector. This week, we focused on beef and pork producers and processors, as well as sectors with product surpluses that can be redirected to food banks. I can assure my fellow member that this is an additional step and that more supports are on the way in the weeks ahead. Bear in mind that a number of programs are already available to farmers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "I'd like to switch topics now. PortneufJacques-Cartier is home to a company that is already licensed by Health Canada and that, for 20years, has been manufacturing medical equipment including masks, face shields and thermometers. This is equipment our health workers need. The company has a licence from the federal government. In mid-March, Health Canada reached out to the company to find out how much equipment it could manufacture to help fight COVID-19. The company confirmed that it could immediately start producing 200,000masks a week, ramping up to a million masks over the next few weeks. Forty-five days later, it is still waiting on its first order from the Canadian government. We are managing a crisis with a limited supply of medical equipment. Can the health minister tell us why, 45days later, this company licensed by Health Canada hasn't received an order?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jol Godin"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for the question. Industry and suppliers have enthusiastically answered our call to equip Canada with products and goods during the crisis. Many of those suppliers have already received contracts. We have reached out to all the others and will negotiate contracts as needed.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand (Minister of Public Services and Procurement)"
},
{
"content": "I would now like to invite hon. member Jenica Atwin to speak.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. Seniors living alone are most at risk of economic insecurity, particularly single senior women, as gender inequality in the job market has translated all too often into inadequate retirement income. Madam Chair, can the minister commit to implementing a poverty reduction plan that addresses the unique challenges faced by older women?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Fredericton, GP)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I want to assure the member that we are quite aware that this pandemic has typically affected single seniors, and many of those, given that they live longer, are single senior women. I want to assure her that we are working on this issue, and we have provided some supports already through measures such as the GST supplementary payment. That is on average almost $400 for single seniors. There's more work to do. We know that, so stay tuned.",
"speaker": "Hon. Deb Schulte"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, older women represent a high proportion of residents in long-term care facilities. Having spent their lives caring for parents, children and often their partners, they find themselves needing care in nursing homes. Multiple outbreaks of COVID-19 in long-term care homes in Canada have highlighted systemic gaps that senior and elderly women may face in such facilities, as well as the working conditions of the female-dominated ranks of nurses and personal support workers. Madam Chair, can the minister commit to implementing a federal strategy for long-term care homes that recognizes quality of life for residents and working conditions for the employees, ideally one that goes hand in hand with a poverty reduction plan and enhanced home and community care investments across the country?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Jenica Atwin"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I do want to thank the hon. member for her question. It's an important one. We are obviously deeply saddened by the outbreaks that have been going on in long-term care facilities and those who have lost their lives. We do recognize that the administration of long-term care and palliative care is the responsibility of provinces and territories; however, we have been taking a team Canada approach, and as you already know, we've been doing tremendous work with them to try to ensure that those who live in those facilities can be well cared for and safe. We are doing that with guidelines",
"speaker": "Hon. Deb Schulte"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Atwin has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, from May 4 to May 10, we are observing Mental Health Week. We know that our essential workers right now are experiencing unprecedented levels of stress and anxiety, on top of putting their own physical safety and health on the line. Most of these workers work in precarious jobs with no access to paid sick leave or vacation, and without any benefits to access mental health services. Apart from the very welcome investments in online resources, can the minister explain how the government will support these workers now and once the crisis is behind us?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Jenica Atwin"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, thank you very much to the member for the question. I'm so glad that she's raising the issue of mental health and in particular how poor mental health is oftentimes connected to our socio-economic status. I appreciate the nuance in that question. She's right. We do have new resources that are available to all Canadians free of charge through the Wellness Together portal, but there is more to do. I think the announcement of top-up wages, for example, which the Prime Minister spoke about today, is another example of how we're taking the health and wellness of all low-income Canadians very seriously. We know that mental health is not divorced from socio-economic status, and I look forward to working with her more on other measures that we can take together.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we're all very aware of the importance of temporary foreign workers and their role in ensuring our food sovereignty across this country. The pandemic has highlighted how we depend on their work. How are we protecting them? Madam Chair, will the government take action to strengthen legislation and ensure Canadians have access to the food they need while the workers who help bring it to our tables have safe working conditions, regardless of where they are working in this country?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Jenica Atwin"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. We are very concerned, as are countries around the world, that we support and create the environment for the health and safety of our temporary foreign workers and we value their contribution to our food supply chain here in Canada. We have issued guidelines to employers and are working very closely with local public health authorities in the provinces and territories to make sure workers are protected, that physical distancing and other recommendations are adhered to and that there are severe consequences if employers don't take care of their workers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "We are now going to Mr. MacGregor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. My first question is this: Will the Liberal government prevent federal bailout funds from going to companies that use tax havens and avoid paying their fair share here in Canada, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alistair MacGregor (CowichanMalahatLangford, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "We are working to make sure that anyone who tries to circumvent the rules faces serious consequences. We are asking businesses to designate a representative to attest their claims. Any employer receiving the subsidy who is deemed ineligible will have to repay the full amount. Anyone who abuses the program could face fines of up to 225% of the subsidy amount as well as five years in prison.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I didn't really hear a yes to that question, so I'll repeat it. Does the government really think it's appropriate for tax-avoiding corporations to receive funding provided for by taxpayers?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alistair MacGregor"
},
{
"content": "We will keep going after companies that engage in tax evasion. I want to be clear. We will target those who are responsible, not innocent workers. An employee is an employee, regardless of who they work for. The wage subsidy program does not hand a blank cheque over to employers. It is meant to help Canadians pay their bills, keep their jobs and get through the crisis.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the agriculture funding announced by the government earlier this week amounts to less than 10% of what the Canadian Federation of Agriculture estimates will be required to help farmers weather this crisis. Why has the Minister of Agriculture shortchanged our farmers?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alistair MacGregor"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, this is one more step. This was one more step. We have already committed significant support to our farmers through different programs, and we will do more. I have to remind my colleague that we have put in $5 billion through FCC, $50 million for the temporary foreign workers, two times $50 million for pork and beef producers this week, and $77 million for food processing. This is only the beginning, and we should not forget that the business risk management programs are still there to offer support.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Yes, Madam Chair, but we're nearly two months into this pandemic and this announcement only came this week. Farmers need certainty. When can farmers expect further updates on funding, and how much will the government be providing?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alistair MacGregor"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, we are working closely with the farmers and their representatives to identify where the gaps are, but once again, we have made improvements to the AgriStability program. They can get, depending on the province, either 50% or 75% in advance payments, and they can also, right now, access their AgriInvest program. There is more than $2 billion ready to access today, if they have",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. MacGregor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, federal disability recipients and seniors on fixed incomes have been hardest hit by cost of living increases from COVID-19. If we acknowledge that $2,000 per month is the minimum needed to get through this time, why are they being asked to survive on far less? When can they expect assistance, and how much will they receive?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alistair MacGregor"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I want to make sure people realize that we have provided some assistance through the GST supplementary benefit. We are also providing support to those who are still working, and we have done that by allowing them to access the CERB. There is more work to be done, so you'll be hearing more in the near future.",
"speaker": "Hon. Deb Schulte"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, as I think we've heard through today's question period, there are countless example of this government designing programs to exclude many small businesses that desperately need help. Whether it's the payroll requirements or other eligibility, we still, to this day, almost two months into the pandemic, have too many small businesses falling through the cracks. Madam Chair, why has the government taken this approach and when can we finally expect fixes to the whole system?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alistair MacGregor"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, right from the get-go, we have been committed to making sure that Canadians are helped through this crisis, and that small businesses get the support that they need, so that we are saving businesses and jobs in this country. That is what we have done with many of our programs. You're seeing that we are also listening, so that we can modify them as we need. I want to assure the member that the work is not done. We continue to do this.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. It is now over to Mr.Perron. Mr.Perron, you may go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. My question will come as no surprise, since it has to do with agriculture. I hear the questions my fellow members are asking, and to be frank, I don't find the answers satisfactory. It is well and good to talk about existing programs, but they aren't working, so enough with that refrain. That's what people are telling us. It's not just members of the opposition saying it. This morning, both farmers and processors came together for a press conference at the Union des producteurs agricoles's head office in Longueuil. Six stakeholders from different sectors sounded the alarm. Can the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food therefore tell us when she will announce significant supports for the industry?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves Perron (BerthierMaskinong, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We have already announced significant amounts of support, and more is on the way. I'd like to correct my fellow member. It's not that the programs aren't working; it's that they aren't generous enough in farmers' eyes. That's why I'm working with my provincial counterparts to make improvements to programming, including AgriStability. Here's an example. After using the online AgriStability benefit estimator, a pork producer found out that he would get $11 per head, as they say in the industry. Pork producers are calling for $20 per head, so it's a good start, even though it's not enough and it isn't what they are asking for. We want to keep working together, but farmers have to access the money available to them through AgriStability.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Now it's my turn to correct the minister. Even before the crisis, we were hearing from people in the industry that the programs were neither suitable nor sufficient. We are in a crisis, and this is an exceptional situation. In the case of mad cow disease, farmers received direct assistance. That's the kind of assistance we are calling for. We don't want to hear about growing levels of debt. Of course, this is a first step, but farms are already deep in debt. A few days ago, the government announced $50million in funding for pork producers, even though they are asking for $20per hog for 27million hogs. The government's support covers just 2.5million hogs. When I call the measure insufficient, I mean it is grossly insufficient. It's high time the government put forth more support. It has to stop saying that it's working hard and examining the situation. The government has to listen to the people in the industry. Again, this morning, they had some interesting proposals. When is the government going to announce a whole lot more in funding support? What's been announced so far is only 10% of what farmers are asking for.",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves Perron"
},
{
"content": "We are going step by step. The programs are already in place. We are trying to make them better, and we are committed to doing that. These programs are cost-shared with the provinces. However, I would point out to the member that, when it comes to AgriRecovery, we made an exception to the rule. We are moving forward in every province to help pork and beef producers. That's two funding envelopes of $50million each to help cover the additional costs from the decrease in plant processing capacity. That's new money that was not yet available, money we introduced this week. As the Prime Minister said, we are going to do more, and we are moving forward step by step.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "What we concluded in committee this week is that the $125million is not new money. It was already earmarked for the programs. The government can't say that programs already exist and, at the same time, claim that they are new programs. Something doesn't add up there. What's more, there are different ways to make money available. I'd like to talk compensation. Everyone knows that the Canada-U.S.-Mexico Agreement came into force a month earlier than planned, despite the promises that had been made. That resulted in additional losses, once again. An easy way to make money available without committing new spending is to provide compensation and announce programs for supply-managed sectors that got nothing. It seems to me that a time of crisis is a time for the government to practise some judo and announce measures. I am reaching out to the government, as I always do, but it has to come forward with announcements. Can we expect the government to announce measures in the coming days?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves Perron"
},
{
"content": "Our commitment to farmers in supply-managed sectorsmeaning, egg, poultry and dairy farmersis as strong as it always was. I repeat, our commitment is clear. Dairy producers received their first payment at the end of last year or the beginning of this year. Support for poultry and egg farmers is in the form of investment programs, which aligns well with the recovery. At this time, we are focusing on emergency programs to help farmers hardest hit by the COVID-19 pandemic. When it comes to the dairy sector, I hope I can count on your support. As you know, legislative changes are needed to grant the Canadian Dairy Commission's request and increase its borrowing limit by $200million so it can buy more butter and cheese.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Our next question will go to Mr. Lake.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we're all inundated, as we've heard during this entire question period, with Canadians' concerns about the economic restrictions and the social restrictions that they're under. Over the last couple of months, the WHO has given one very consistent message in terms of coming out of those economic and social restrictions. On March 16, Dr. Tedros said in his briefing, We have a simple message for all countries: test, test, test. On March 25, 44 days ago, he said, Aggressive measures to find, isolate, test, treat and trace are not only the best and fastest way out of extreme social and economic restrictionstheyre also the best way to prevent them. Does the minister agree with the WHO that relentless testing and tracing are critical to a successful economic and social relaunch strategy in Canada?",
"speaker": "Hon. Mike Lake (EdmontonWetaskiwin, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Thanks to the member for the very astute observation and question. Absolutely, we agree that testing and contact tracing will form an important part of our response to living with COVID. We've been investing heavily in ensuring that we have the lab capacity, the collaboration across provinces and territories, and the variety of testing options to help us increase our capacity to test. We are aiming right now for a high volume of tests, but I will also say that in Canada we have one of the highest testing rates in the world. Although we're doing well, I can assure him that I am with him and I believe we need to do more.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "I have some really quick questions for follow-up. First, what is Canada's current testing capability?",
"speaker": "Hon. Mike Lake"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I mentioned to his colleagues yesterday, we have currently the capacity to do approximately 60,000 tests per day across the country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "How many tests were conducted each day on average in Canada last week?",
"speaker": "Hon. Mike Lake"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's hard for me to get that exact number, but I will get back to him with the exact number.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "I'll save you the time. The exact number was 28,851, on average, every day last week. That's a gap of 30,000 from what your stated testing capability is. I'll give another quote from Dr. Tam, back on April 22, 15 days ago. She said, As a first tranche, roughly close to 60,000 is where the provinces can potentially expand to as a target already. Does the minister happen to know, ballpark, what the average number of daily tests in Canada has been since that statement?",
"speaker": "Hon. Mike Lake"
},
{
"content": "Your estimate was slightly higher than what my estimate was going to be, so that's a great piece of news. Listen, I will just say that I think if the premise here is that we could be doing more testing. I would agree, but I will also say that the provinces and territories are working incredibly hard on testing strategies that meet their own specific needs. I'm happy to have a conversation with the member later about that testing strategy. Dr. Tam works with all the chief public health officers across the country to ensure that their testing strategy is going to be applicable and appropriate for their particular jurisdictions. We, as the federal government, provide the capacity for them to conduct those tests.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Following up on that, is there a jurisdiction in Canada where relentless testing is not the appropriate strategy as provinces consider relaunching?",
"speaker": "Hon. Mike Lake"
},
{
"content": "Each province and territory has its own outbreak and its own epidemic. For example, in British Columbia, where there are relatively fewer cases in general and less disease activity, they may have a different testing strategy than a province like Ontario, which is currently struggling with more outbreaks.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Given your comment that our current testing capability is 60,000, and acknowledging that only at one point in the entire history of our COVID response, over several months, has our weekly average been over 30,000it was about 31,000 for one day on a rolling basisMinister, are you satisfied with our current testing amounts right now, given that we're testing 50% of what the public health officer advises would be best?",
"speaker": "Hon. Mike Lake"
},
{
"content": "I'm so amazed by the work the provinces and territories have done in a very short time to increase their capacity. We are supporting them with the tools that they need to get more testing done, but also to have other components in place that will allow them to do the rapid tracing of positive cases. I think it's very important to remember that testing strategies will be different across the provinces, based on the outbreak disease epidemiology. Having said that, I know that we can all do better, and I'm certain that my counterparts feel the same.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "I'm going to have to cut the minister off at that one. I want to thank everyone for the session today, I think it went rather well. I'm very proud of you and proud of ourselves for what we managed to accomplish. The committee stands adjourned until Tuesday, May 12, at noon.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
}
] |
covid_7 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"12"
]
],
"topic": "Introduction of orders and petitioners presented in the committee"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"13",
"44"
]
],
"topic": "Participants expressed thanks"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"45",
"77"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about financial support in various aspects"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"78",
"93"
]
],
"topic": "Arguments about the care for seniors in Canada"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"95",
"120"
]
],
"topic": "Government's plan to ensure fundings for vulnerable groups of people"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"121",
"250"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about federal attention distributed to different sectors of the society"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"252",
"368"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about government's plan to ensure safety in all sectors in Canada"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting was with the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. First of all, petitioners presented several petitions including to call the government to implement a wage supplement. Later the committee expressed the thanks to different departments and people for the contribution to the society under the Covid-19 situation. When it came to questions, the committee discussed the financial support from the government to various industries as well as groups to ensure equal rights of different groups of people, especially the most vulnerable ones. Moreover, the meeting discussed the new law in Hong Kong and issues related to community services in Canada. In the end, the committee discussed the recent and upcoming solutions to battle the Covid-19 concerning various aspects.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The petitioners had asked the government to implement a wage supplement as a temporary measure to bring the wages for those who were in contact with the general public and working in what had been deemed an essential service to no less than $20 an hour, in light of their service and the risks they were taking for all Canadians.",
"query": "What was stated in petition e-2509?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"9",
"9"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Mr. Blake Richards suggested that Tourism Week in Canada, the annual celebration was a time to recognize the contributions and experiences of Canada's tourism industry. The ongoing coronavirus crisis had closed provincial and international borders to recreational travel, and tourism operators from coast to coast had been among the first and hardest hit due to the government-mandated lockdowns. The 1.8 million Canadians whose jobs depended on a thriving tourism sector were counting on it.",
"query": "What was the difficulty faced by the tourism industry?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"15",
"15"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Larry Bagnell (Yukon, Lib.) suggested that as a great historic Canadian event last week, Yukon became home to Canada's first university north of 60. Yukon University would provide Yukoners with educational opportunities closer to home, expand the research capabilities and expertise on the Arctic and climate change and allow those who want to study northern and first nations governance to do so in the north.",
"query": "Why were the thanks expressed to the House of Commons today from Whitehorse?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"25",
"25"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Ms. Anju Dhillon would like to thank the members of the Canadian Armed Forces for their invaluable assistance in the long-term care facilities. Since many seniors, the most vulnerable ones desperately needed them and they had offered great assistance.",
"query": "What were the reasons to thank the members of the Canadian Armed Forces?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"43",
"43"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland suggested that after what it had been learned this week, all options must be on the table when it came to how care for the elders would be provided in Canada in the future. Currently, it is clear to all that root-and-branch reform was necessary. All participants would need to act with speed but not haste, and work with the provincial partners.",
"query": "Would there be more room for profit in the care of the seniors?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"78",
"87"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Mrs. Karen Vecchio joined critics from the NDP, the Bloc and the Green Party who delt with women's issues and gender equality to ask where the $75 million toward sexual exploitation and human trafficking had gone. As a result of financial shortage, last week organizations had to close their doors and the programs that helped vulnerable women and girls. Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness) introduced that the government had launched a new, comprehensive national strategy to combat human trafficking, and had incorporated a new pillar in that strategy of empowerment to ensure that focus.",
"query": "Where was the $75 million towards sexual exploitation and human trafficking had gone?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"95",
"96"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Mary Ng suggested that Canada,with our international partners in the U.S., Australia and the U.K., made a joint statement in which countries were expressing deep concern regarding China's imposition of a new security law for Hong Kong. Moreover, with hundreds of thousands of Canadians living in Hong Kong, the government had a vested interest in Hong Kong's stability and prosperity, the foundations of which were Hong Kong's relative autonomy and basic freedoms. Canada would always support and promote freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedoms of the press around the world.",
"query": "Would the Prime Minister condemn this law concerning the national security bill undermining Hong Kong's autonomy?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"121",
"124"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion) said that it could be confirmed that the government would increase the wage subsidies for Canada student jobs. The program had added flexibilities, including the ability to have part-time work and the ability to have the jobs extended until February of next year. That said, the budget was not changed. It remains at 70,000 job placements for 70,000 students, with 100% of them being subsidized at 100%.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the measures taken for the Canada summer jobs program?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"132",
"133"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Steven Blaney questioned that the Canada emergency student benefit did not encourage young people to go to work, and employers had difficulty hiring them. Yet they had applied for the Canadasummer jobs program. Hon. Carla Qualtrough ensured the committee that the member opposite was not implying that offering young people income support that they took out of necessity would make them not want to work. The reason why the government was creating these additional jobs beyond the Canada summer jobs program was the young people wanted to serve the community.",
"query": "Would the government enhance the Canada summer jobs program?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"143",
"144"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Catherine McKenna started by introducing the $33 billion infrastructure program in which the government was working directly with the Government of Quebec to build infrastructure that was making a huge difference, including projects in the member's riding. Moreover, the change of management at the Canada Infrastructure Bank marked a new phase in the development of the bank. The government was working to build a modern, public infrastructure, to create jobs, and to make Canada more competitive internationally.",
"query": "How did the infrastructure minister explain to give $1 million in bonuses to the CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank rather than to invest in roads, schools, hospitals and long-term care homes?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"254",
"257"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland introduced that the government was very committed to removing barriers to interprovincial trade. It was something that we have been working on with the premiers. Obviously the coronavirus has taken precedence in recent weeks, but it's a priority. It was the right thing to do. The government had been meeting every week for more than two months, to be focusing on the urgent threat posed by the coronavirus to ensure that there would be no delay.",
"query": "Would the government commit to immediately examine all the trade barriers that could affect interprovincial trade of essential goods due to COVID-19?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"271",
"275"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Mr. Daniel Blaikie asked about the government's guidance towards people who felt that their workplace was not safe at this time and that their employer had not done its due diligence, and were concerned about losing access to the CERB. Hon.Carla Qualtrough suggested that the government were working very closely with the provinces on occupational health and safety guidelines and taking an all-of-government approach to ensure that workers were safe and that the government could support them in these efforts.",
"query": "What guidance would the federal government have for the employment with concerns?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"325",
"326"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 13th meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybrid meeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Chairs chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using the earpieces at their desks. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute",
"speaker": "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.))"
},
{
"content": "I have a point of order.",
"speaker": "Mr. Ziad Aboultaif (Edmonton Manning, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Can the member wait for the point of order until we finish the introduction?",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "There is so much noise in the background over there, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Mr. Ziad Aboultaif"
},
{
"content": "That is a very good point of order. I want to remind everyone that when we speak, it is picked up. We have amazing speakersand an amazing Speaker, but that's a whole other storyand amazing microphones in the chamber, and they do pick up everything. I know there was some chatter going on in the background. I want to make sure everyone is aware of that. Mr. Aboultaif, that was a very good point of order. I appreciate that. For those joining us via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mikes on mute when you're not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel, and if you want to speak in French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating by video conference wish to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements for today, so we'll continue to the presentation of petitions, for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The first petition goes to Mr. Manly, who is joining us via video conference.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a petition that calls on the government to deal with helping our honey bees. They are crucial to our food system. They provide hundreds of billions of dollars worth of services to commercial agricultural crops and other ecological services every year, and the European Union has put heavy restrictions on the chemicals that are affecting them, the neonicotinoids. This petition calls on the Government of Canada, for the sake of bees and our food security, to follow Europe's lead and adhere to the precautionary principle by banning the use of neonicotinoids in Canada.",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP)"
},
{
"content": "The next presenter of petitions will be Mr. Genuis, who is very parliamentary and dressed from the waist up, I understand.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair, and that is all you need to see for the moment. Canadians are horrified by the military report on the conditions of long-term care in Ontario. It raises big questions about the choices facing seniors in certain situations, which is what makes this first petition particularly timely. I am tabling a petition related to Bill C-7, the government's euthanasia bill, which seeks to dramatically remove safeguards that the government said were vital only a short time ago. When some people are living in deplorable conditions, we cannot truly speak of them as having a choice of when they ought to die. Especially in light of that new information, I commend this petition for the consideration of members of the House. The second petition is in support of Bill S-204 on organ harvesting and trafficking, put forward in the Senate. The bill would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ without the donor's consent. This bill seeks to combat the horrific practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking.",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The next petition presenter will be Ms. May.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair, and greetings from SaanichGulf Islands. The petition I'm presenting today is petition e-2509, which has been duly certified. It relates to what I think many of us will regard as the real heroes of the last few months. In this pandemic, there have often been very underpaid and overworked front-line workers who receive minimum wage and nothing more, and who are of course deemed essential services. The petitioners have asked the government to implement a wage supplement as a temporary measure to bring the wages for those who are in contact with the general public and working in what has been deemed an essential service to no less than $20 an hour, in light of their service and the risks they're taking for all of us.",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP)"
},
{
"content": "We have a point of order from Ms. Harder.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the honourable member who just spoke brought up a great point yesterday. She said that when we present petitions, we are simply supposed to give one or two sentences before putting them on the table. I believe that was more than one or two sentences.",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind honourable members that when they are presenting petitions, they should be very concise with the prcis that they give up front, as opposed to going on for a long time. Now we will proceed to statements by members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes, and each statement will be for one minute. We will start with Mr. Fonseca.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today I am honoured to recognize the youth in my riding of Mississauga EastCooksville who are part of the 52nd Mississauga Scouts. For over a decade, I've had the great opportunity to join the Scouts every year during the month of May for the door-to-door food drives. This year has been a lot different, owing to the COVID situation, but our Scouts are not used to saying the word impossible. David Chant, head leader for their cub pack, reached out to share that the youth have found innovative ways to engage our community through a virtual food bank. I say a big thank you to Scout leaders like David, who are strong role models for our youth, teaching them the importance of leadership, kindness and giving back. I've always been amazed with the support within our community for the Scouts' food drive. David and his group of Scouts raised over $46,000 worth of food last year for the Mississauga Food Bank and The Compass. Again, I give a huge virtual high-five to all of our young Scouts, who have taken the lead with lots of compassion and care.",
"speaker": "Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga EastCooksville, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go on to Mr. Richards.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "May 24 to May 31 is Tourism Week in Canada. This annual celebration is a time for us to recognize the contributions and experiences of Canada's tourism industry. This is a very important industry, and this year's Tourism Week is a little different from what it normally is. The ongoing coronavirus crisis has closed provincial and international borders to recreational travel, and tourism operators from coast to coast have been among the first and hardest hit due to the government-mandated lockdowns. Clear criteria regarding border reopenings and health and safety requirements will allow hospitality and tourism businesses to sufficiently prepare to reopen. This includes rehiring employees, ordering supplies and putting together tour packages and marketing plans. Operators do not need to be set back any further because of a lack of clarity around reopening. While this Tourism Week is not a celebration like the one we had expected, I anticipate next year's celebration to be a celebration of an even stronger and more successful tourism industry in Canada. The 1.8 million Canadians whose jobs depend on a thriving tourism sector are counting on it. Bonne semaine to tourism.",
"speaker": "Mr. Blake Richards (BanffAirdrie, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go on to Mr. Rogers.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Monday was a sad day in my riding of BonavistaBurinTrinity, and indeed our entire province. Please join me as I offer sincere condolences to the families of the men who lost their lives at sea in a tragic accident off the coast of St. Lawrence in Placentia Bay. Ed Norman, his son Scott Norman and his nephew Jody Norman all tragically lost their lives while fishing for crab this past Monday. A fourth man, family friend Isaac Kettle, was also with them. After a courageous search mission by Canadian Coast Guard auxiliary members and the Department of National Defence and Provincial Airlines, he is unfortunately still missing. We grieve with the entire town of St. Lawrence as they mourn this tragic loss of life. Mr. Chair, I am sure the entire province of Newfoundland and Labrador, this parliamentary family and Canadians from coast to coast to coast join me in thinking of these men, along with their friends and families, during this difficult time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Mr. Churence Rogers (BonavistaBurinTrinity, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Mr.Simard.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. I would like to speak to you today about a solid man who unfortunately passed away on May25. We were greatly saddened to learn about the death of FrancisDufour. This builder of Quebec's political history drew his last breath at the age of91, late Sunday night. Mr.Dufour was the archetypal proud representative of my region who spent his entire life in Jonquire. He first became involved in the Alcan employee's union in Arvida, then continued his civic involvement at the municipal level as mayor, then in the Quebec National Assembly as the member for Jonquire. He will be remembered as a man with deep ties to his community, a man of integrity, a people person, who dedicated himself to serving citizens and advancing the independence movement in Quebec. On behalf of the people of the riding of Jonquire and all the people of Quebec, I offer my most sincere condolences to FrancisDufour's family and loved ones. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Mr. Mario Simard (Jonquire, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We are continuing with MartinezFerrada.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. The pandemic has greatly affected Montreal East, particularly the riding of Hochelaga, which I represent. Today, I'd like to recognize the exceptional work of all the volunteers and organizations in Hochelaga that are helping the more vulnerable populations, including Anonyme, CAP St-Barnab, CARE Montral, the Cuisine collective Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, Bouffe Action, the Centre Communautaire Hochelaga, Chic Resto Pop, Jojo Dpannage, Groupe d'Entraide de Mercier-Ouest and many others. I'd like to acknowledge the commitment of the merchants who have rolled up their sleeves, including the Coop Couturires Pop, to make masks. I'd especially like to recognize essential workers, especially attendants. Allow me to offer our condolences to the loved ones of the attendants who have lost their lives to protect ours. The citizens of Hochelaga are resilient and unified. I am proud to rise in the House to salute them.",
"speaker": "Ms. Soraya Martinez Ferrada (Hochelaga, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "The next presentation will be by Mr. Cumming.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I rise today to pay tribute to a great Albertan and former parliamentarian, Louise Feltham, who passed away this Monday after a lengthy battle with cancer. Louise was an entrepreneur, a public servant and a force of nature. She inspired the family motto How hard can it be? by creating communities and building several homes in her lifetime. In all that she did, Louise broke glass ceilings. Her many firsts included being the first woman to serve as a councillor in rural Alberta, the first female reeve in rural Alberta and the first woman born in Newfoundland to serve in this chamber. She was the MP for Wild Rose from 1988 to 1993. Her son Glenn served as the president of NAIT when I chaired the board. My thoughts and sympathies are with him, his wife Tammi and the rest of their family for this great loss. Her parliamentary family mourns with you today. Some hon. members: Hear, hear!",
"speaker": "Mr. James Cumming (Edmonton Centre, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to Mr. Bagnell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it is a great honour to speak to the House of Commons today from Whitehorse, Yukon, here on the traditional territory of the Kwanlin Dn First Nation and the Ta'an Kwch'n Council. As a great historic Canadian event last week, Yukon became home to Canada's first university north of 60. Yukon University will provide Yukoners with educational opportunities closer to home, expand our research capabilities and expertise on the Arctic and climate change and allow those who want to study northern and first nations governance to do so in the north. I encourage all students living in the northern half of Canada to look at the many programs and degrees at Yukon University to continue their studiesin some cases this year, virtuallyby remaining in the north. I want to congratulate the staff of Yukon College, who spent the last decade working towards this transition, and especially the outgoing president, Karen Barnes. I wish her all the best in her retirement. Thank you, merci, mahsi cho and sga senl.",
"speaker": "Hon. Larry Bagnell (Yukon, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go on to Ms. Hutchings.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, from the Long Range Mountains, I too want to send my condolences to my colleague, Mr. Rogers from BonavistaBurinTrinity, on the tragic loss in St. Lawrence. We're all communities that rely on the sea, and we understand the importance and the tragedy, and the hard work it is being fishers. However, today, colleagues, I want to mention, as my colleague from across the way said, that it's national tourism week, so please take the time to get out and thank the tourism and hospitality businesses in your ridings. Most businesses around the world were hit hard by COVID-19. The tourism economy was hit very hard, especially seasonal and rural operations and the 1.8 million people the industry employs. However, this industry knows how to work hard. They know how to partner. They know how to look after their employees and their guests. They will find new and innovative opportunities and experiences. They will build new business and they will continue to attract visitors. We know that the domestic and local markets will recover first. I know that the operators in my riding are getting ready just for that. It's exciting to speak with them about how they're working on their new normal and how it's going to be developed and implemented here in the Long Range Mountains. Remember too that many of our national parks are opening on June 1, so get out and explore the park in your backyard. I look forward to working with the Tourism Industry Association of Canada, Destination Canada and my colleagues so that when we turn the corner of this pandemic, we are ready to rebuild a stronger tourism economy. Friends, go out and discover the tourism treasures in your province. They need your support. Tourism matters. Thank you, Mr. Chair.",
"speaker": "Ms. Gudie Hutchings (Long Range Mountains, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Gourde, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. Some people were already too few in number and already burdened with heavy responsibilities even before the COVID-19 crisis occurred. I would like to take this opportunity to express my admiration for the dedication of all the essential workers who stepped up in the riding of LvisLotbinire. This crisis has created pressing needs and unprecedented emergencies. Fine men and women committed to human dignity, volunteers, retirees, and you, who have wisely agreed to stay home, you have been part, to varying degrees, of this great equation to minimize the impact of the spread and avoid the worst. The snow has melted, the flowers have arrived. Many children are happy to be able to expend their energy again; our seniors are being cuddled, with great care, and our essential workers in the riding are still dedicated to the job. I say bravo, thank you and don't give up, even though you have already earned your place in heaven.",
"speaker": "Mr. Jacques Gourde (LvisLotbinire, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Ms.Bendayan.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. My father, who is now retired, was a researcher for over 40years. He was involved in many medical discoveries. From his laboratories at the Univerist de Montral, he worked with CHUM and the Centre hospitalier universitaire SainteJustine, renowned institutions in Outremont. In Fact, Outremont is full of professors, scientists and researchers. They are Quebeckers, Canadians, who are at the forefront of discoveries that save and will save lives. Since coming into office, our government has reversed the funding cuts to medical research and has invested billions in science. Recently, we announced new funding for COVID-19 research for fundamental science and supports for academic researchers. We are working very hard to find a vaccine for COVID-19, and our fundamental research is helping us to understand viruses that we don't even know the names of yet. It is this work that will help us stay ahead of the curve rather than flatten it. To all our Canadian scientists and to my dad, thank you. Some hon. members: Hear, hear!",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachel Bendayan (Outremont, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Ms. Alleslev.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, citizens in my riding of AuroraOak RidgesRichmond Hill are showing incredible compassion as they help their families, their friends and even strangers during this difficult period. They are our community champions. The Aurora Chamber of Commerce and the Richmond Hill Board of Trade are helping businesses navigate in these difficult times. Organizations like The STEAM Project and Ganesha Temple are making and donating face masks for those in need. The Aurora Museum & Archives is collecting artifacts to document the pandemic for future generations. The Aurora Farmers' Market is bringing local farmers and businesses to us, but this year with one key person missing. Our community has lost one of the farmers' market's founders, our jam lady, Jan Freedman. We were deeply saddened by her passing, and she will be sorely missed. My sincere thanks to everyone who's working to ease the burdens on one another during this crisis. It's not easy, but this too will pass, and we will be stronger for it. In the meantime, stay safe, and let us all do our part to be community champions. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Ms. Leona Alleslev (AuroraOak RidgesRichmond Hill, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Deltell, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we all understand that a crisis like the one the world is currently experiencing generates deficits. We also know that a deficit is a bill we send to our children and grandchildren, which is why it is important to be prudent, to make wise choices and, above all, to know where we are going. It's a shame that every time we ask the government a question, no minister can tell us how big the Canadian deficit is. We aren't the only ones concerned about the deficit and the government's lack of transparency. In fact, last Tuesday, at a parliamentary committee meeting in the Senate, the Parliamentary Budget Officer made some very scathing remarks about the government. He said he was concerned. He said that there had to be a deadline or we'd be heading toward taxation levels that haven't been seen in generations in this country because there is not a lot of ammunition left before we go into a large structural deficit. I'm not the one saying it; it's the Parliamentary Budget Officer. For weeks, almost every day, the Prime Minister has been announcing cash injections for Canadians. We agree with that. However, hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent without any idea of the deficit. That's why we're sounding the alarm and calling on the government to be careful. The Prime Minister needs to know that we can't play Santa Claus every day, because the bills in January come in fast, and they are high.",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to Mr. Garrison.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, making sure science informs our health policies is critical during a pandemic. That's why I'm so disappointed that the Liberals have maintained the ban on blood donations from gay men and trans women. There is no science behind this ban. Not only does it reinforce homophobia and transphobia, it also reduces our blood supply at this critical time. Now we've learned that the ban will also result in rejecting plasma donors, when plasma is so critical in emerging COVID-19 research and treatment. More than 17 countries, including Argentina, Italy and Spain, have no deferral period for men who have sex with men. They know that behaviour-based screening provides better security for the blood supply than discriminatory identity-based rules. I have asked the minister many times to lift the gay blood ban and I do so again today, but today I also call on the family and friends of gay men and trans women to step up now and donate blood in place of those of us who cannot. When it comes to blood donations, we really should all be in this together.",
"speaker": "Mr. Randall Garrison (EsquimaltSaanichSooke, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Desilets, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Good afternoon, Mr.Chair. I've missed you, by the way. On another note, the emergency wage subsidy was created for people who fear for their jobs or their businesses. It's for people who need it, not for millionaire political parties like the Liberals and Conservatives. In Rivire-des-Mille-les, as in many other ridings, we respond daily to businesses that don't have access to it. Unfortunately, there are people in our ridings who won't have the opportunity to hire staff this summer. There are businesses that are losing less than 30%of their revenues; they are losing29%. These businesses won't have access to it. Everywhere we look, there are businesses that are falling through the cracks. Meanwhile, the Liberals and the Conservatives are getting the wage subsidy to fund partisan activities. I repeat: it is to fund partisan activities. The Liberals and Conservatives don't even do it on the sly; they do it openly. These two parties have raised millions of dollars since January. Every dollar that's taken comes out of the taxpayers' pockets. It's the workers' money, not the political parties'. It's so embarrassing that it's shameful, disrespectful and ridiculous. The Liberals and the Conservatives have to pay that money back. I think that's obvious. For the Bloc Qubcois, its immeasurably clear. It's a question of ethics, morality and respect for citizens.",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivire-des-Mille-les, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Schmale.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. This week is Paramedic Services Week, and I would like to take a moment to thank these men and women who work tirelessly at the best of times to protect and save lives. Their efforts during COVID-19, like the services provided by many front-line workers in health care, such as personal support workers, doctors, nurses, janitorial and clerical staff, lab technicians and many others, have been extraordinary and truly beyond the call of duty. I hope this week all Canadians will take a moment to thank a paramedic or any front-line health care worker in their community for the amazing services they have been called upon to perform and will continue to provide in the challenging days ahead. Chair, I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention another unfortunate consequence of the current pandemic, the cancellation of the Kinmount Fair, a renowned event that has been running since 1870. This year the fair was to mark its 150th anniversary, but in true Kinmount spirit, this heartbreaking decision will not deter organizers from planning an even bigger and better event in 2021.",
"speaker": "Mr. Jamie Schmale (HaliburtonKawartha LakesBrock, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Now we will go to Ms. Dhillon.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I'd like to thank the members of the Canadian Armed Forces from the bottom of my heart for their invaluable assistance in the long-term care facilities. Their deployment came at a critical time, when many seniors desperately needed them. Through the observations and testimonies of these members, we saw the extent of the nightmare that many seniors had endured for a long time. These are human beings who could not fend for themselves. They were treated with profound cruelty and carelessness. Among many other loathsome details, they were left to starve, were abused and lived in filth, their cries of anguish ignored. They were tormented and left in their agony. There is no excuse for this. No one ever deserves to be treated the way they were. I am talking about humanity, about compassion and mercy. It is up to each and every one of us to make sure no elderly person is ever hurt in this vile manner again. I take this moment to honour these victims.",
"speaker": "Ms. Anju Dhillon (DorvalLachineLaSalle, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Before moving on, I want to remind the hon. members that, as the rules state, statements by members should be 60 seconds. That's one minute. Usually there are a few extra seconds, which doesn't matter, but some of them have gone quite a bit over time, so starting Monday we'll be cutting them off at 60 seconds. I encourage everyone to practise them or take a look at them, and try to keep them within the 60 seconds so that we don't go over our allotted time. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. I would like to remind members to speak fairly slowly so that the interpreters can understand what they're saying. I know sometimes we get excited in the House and we speak a little quickly. Just be conscious of it. I'm sure it will be appreciated by the interpreters and those at home who are listening in, as then they can make out the important questions and answers that are being given in this chamber. We will go to our first question. We will begin with Mr. Barlow.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thanks, Mr. Chair. The government has consistently worked to shut down Parliament and undermine personal sittings and has argued that the business of this country can be done by Zoom. However, for work of the G7 the Prime Minister said, theres no question that in-person meetings...are much more effective than even virtual meetings. By pushing to go virtual, is it the Prime Minister's goal to make Canada's Parliament less effective?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Barlow (Foothills, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it is absolutely not. In fact, I am pleased to be here in person meeting with members from across the country and pleased that our colleagues who live further away from Ottawa than I do have the opportunity to join us. Parliament plays an essential role in our democracy, and it's",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Barlow.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, that is exactly the point. This isn't Parliament; this is a committee meeting. We do not have Parliament. This is a virtual committee. A Saskatchewan producer called me and said that he tried to use the online AgriStability calculator. He said that most farmers can't use it, that in fact they can't put in their inventory changes. This means it will give them erroneous information. Why is the agriculture minister touting this lifeline for farmers when it doesn't actually work?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Barlow"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the agricultural sector is critical to our country, and the questions some of us have been asking around food security have reminded us how lucky we are, as Canadians, to be living in an agricultural superpower. When it comes to the specific technical questions that farmers have, they should turn to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, who will be delighted to help.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Could the Deputy Prime Minister tell me how much it cost to develop this online AgriStability calculator?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Barlow"
},
{
"content": "What I can say is that we are very mindful of and very grateful for the extremely",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Barlow.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, farmers have even hired accountants to try to navigate this shiny online calculator, but they've been told they would go broke before they received any money. Will the government admit that this is just a fig leaf before any actual assistance will come to Canadian farmers?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Barlow"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, very many farmers, and certainly many of the farmers of my acquaintance, have worked with accountants for a very long time. Farmers are sophisticated business people who deal in the futures markets every day. They run hugely important businesses",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Barlow.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it's that kind of condescension that is so frustrating to Canadian farmers. They shouldn't have to hire an accountant to figure out an assistance program. The last time I questioned the Prime Minister and the minister about the secret carbon tax data, they said that only part of it was secret and that the rest of it would be given to the House. I have yet to receive it. Will that be tabled today, in both official languages, to justify to Canadian farmers why the government has increased the carbon tax in the midst of a pandemic?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Barlow"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, what is condescending is to behave as if farmers are not highly sophisticated businessmen. They hire economists. They hire agronomists. They are at the cutting edge. I am proud of the sophistication of Canadian farmers, and I'm proud of the support we offer them. Some honourable members: Oh, oh!",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind the honourable members that the background noise and the heckling really make it difficult for the members who are tuning in via Zoom. I just want to make sure they're aware of what they're doing to our colleagues who are online. We will go back to Mr. Barlow.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, for 64 days the finance minister has failed to deliver on his promise to assist Canada's energy sector. Small oil and gas companies still can't qualify for BDC loans, and last week's announcement for large employers, in my opinion, was nothing of exploitive. If the government doesn't fulfill its promise to provide support for the energy sector, it is in turn supporting unethically sourced foreign oil and costing good reliable Canadian jobs. After 64 days, when will the credit options be available to Canada's small and medium-sized energy companies?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Barlow"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I agree with the member opposite about one thing: The energy sector and energy workers are absolutely essential to our economy, and we support them. One of the things I am most proud of is the $1.7 billion our government has committed to cleaning up orphan wells. That money today has created jobs in Alberta, B.C. and Saskatchewan. People are working because of it, and they are cleaning up their communities thanks to that support.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Brunelle-Duceppe.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I'll try not to spend too much time. Will the Liberal Party of Canada pay back the money it took from the wage subsidy program, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the purpose of the wage subsidy is to support workers, help them keep their jobs and keep them connected to their workplace",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Brunelle-Duceppe.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I'll take that as a no. In my riding, Trillium Media owns several weeklies. The company doesn't qualify for the wage subsidy because it has suffered losses of28% instead of30%. The historic village of Val-Jalbert is in the same situation. Does the Liberal Party of Canada consider itself to be in greater financial difficulty than the historic village of Val-Jalbert and Trillium Media?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, allow me to remind the hon. member opposite what we're doing to support Canadians: more than 8million Canadians have received the Canada emergency response benefit. In addition, 635,000businesses have received loans through the Canada emergency business account.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I'll take that as a yes. Does my hon. colleague take into account the fact that the billions of dollars that are currently being handed out come from taxpayers' pockets? It even comes from the pockets of people who have lost their jobs and who pay taxes when they go to the corner store. On the other side of the House, is it considered justified for multi-million dollar parties to finance themselves with public funds, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I would like to continue by reminding my colleague opposite what our government is doing today to support Canadians and Quebeckers: 293applications for the Canada emergency wage subsidy have been approved. Over 2million Canadians today have",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Brunelle-Duceppe, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I'll take that as a yes. It's fantastic! The money that the Liberals are going to get from the wage subsidy is going to go directly into their election kitty. When they go to get their election expenses reimbursed, they're going to get 60%of that money back. So they'll have made the wage subsidy work for them. The businesses that'll have access to it won't, but the political parties will. Doesn't that contravene the Canada Elections Act, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, our programs don't discriminate. They're there to help all workers, to help all Canadians, to help all Quebeckers. The hon. member talked about companies and sectors that need more help. We agree with that. We think we all need to work together to continue to help Canadians and Quebeckers",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Order. We are returning to Mr.Brunelle-Duceppe.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I don't know how to take it this time. I didn't get it all. I think it's necessary to stop, eject and throw the tape out, and provide an honest answer to the questions we ask. Can my colleague across the way answer a very simple question? Are their employees going to be used for political fundraising and so, once again, make the generous wage subsidy they receive work for them, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I want to point out something important when we talk about our work and our economy. The important thing is that we have put in place unprecedented economic measures that are absolutely urgent and necessary. That's what we'll continue to do.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we've already seen a Duceppe who denounces the use of federal programs by the Liberal Party for the Liberal Party. Can my hon. colleague tell me if she's able to look the entrepreneurs in her riding in the eye and tell them that they don't deserve the wage subsidy, because their loss of income is only28% or29%, while her party is dipping into the cookie jar, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I am absolutely willing to look into the eyes of the entrepreneurs and workers in my riding because they know that our government is doing a lot to help Canadians in this historic crisis. Our economic support program is the largest program in Canada's history",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We will now continue with Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. The Canadian Armed Forces report showed the relationship between equipment costs and the lack of care for our seniors. Will the government admit today that there is no room for profit in the care of our seniors?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, that's a very important question, and I would like to thank the member for asking it. I think this is a historic week. All Canadians have seen what is happening in Ontario and Quebec. We",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Order. We'll go back to Mr.Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, experts and advocates have all pointed out that in the for-profit model of care for seniors, there is more emphasis on the bottom line than on care for seniors. Will the Liberal government admit that there is no place for profit when it comes to the care of our seniors?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to start by saying one thing, and that is to publicly thank, in this House, Brigadier-General Conrad Mialkowski and his team for compiling the assessment that they did of long-term care homes in Ontario. They acted with courage. They acted with compassion. What they did is historic, and we all need to",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go back to Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "The Canadian Forces, of course, always deserve our thanks. However, they don't need our thanks right now; they need to see some action on what they have pointed out. The government owns Revera, the second-largest long-term care provider in Canada. It's for profit, and it's facing a $50-million lawsuit for negligence. What is the government doing to protect seniors in the long-term care homes that they own?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I agree with the member opposite that after what we have learned this week, all options must be on the table when it comes to how care for our elders will be provided in Canada in the future. I think it is clear to us all that root-and-branch reform is necessary. We need to act with speed but not haste, and work with our provincial partners.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "If all the options are on the table, will the Liberal government commit to removing profit from long-term care, particularly in the Revera long-term care homes, the second-largest number in Canada, which the government owns? Will it commit to removing profit from long-term care?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "What we will commit to doand I hope with the support of all members of this Houseis work very carefully and also very urgently in close co-operation with our provincial partners, under whose jurisdiction this falls, to ensure that these heart-wrenching reports mean that as a country we turn the page",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Revera is a Crown corporation owned by the government, so let's not hear excuses. Is the government doing anything to ensure that seniors are cared for? Is it providing for robust inspections, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to clarify one point in the member's question. Canadian Crown corporations are not Liberal, not Conservative and not partisan. One of the strengths of Canada is that we have non-partisan government institutions, and they serve us extremely well. Our",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, right now the current government is responsible for Revera. It is a Crown corporation. Will the government commit to ensuring there is no profit anymore in Revera? As we've seen, it is facing a $50-million lawsuit, and there's been horrible negligence.",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I said at the outset, the ownership structure of long-term care facilities needs to be on the table. Everything does. I also want to emphasize how important it is for us to do what we have been doing, which is to work very closely with the provinces, under whose jurisdiction this falls. In just the past 24 hours, I have spoken with Premier Ford, Premier Horgan and Premier Moe, and our conversation included long-term care facilities.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Ms. Vecchio.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today I join critics from the NDP, the Bloc and the Green Party who deal with women's issues and gender equality to ask where the $75 million toward sexual exploitation and human trafficking has gone. Last week organizations had to close their doors and the programs that help vulnerable women and girls, so the simple question is this: Where is the money?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Karen Vecchio (ElginMiddlesexLondon, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let me begin by thanking the member for that very important question. I agree that human trafficking, which is a crime of coercion and exploitation, is unacceptable, and we have to ensure that we provide the supports necessary to the victims of this crime. As the member knows, we have launched a new, comprehensive national strategy to combat human trafficking, and we've incorporated a new pillar in that strategy of empowerment to ensure that the focus",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Vecchio.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "With all due respect, it's great that we have a strategy, but when money is not going to the doors of these organizations that provide these services, a strategy is nothing. It's all talk and no action. Where's the money?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Karen Vecchio"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, let me pick up where my honourable colleague left off by acknowledging that trafficking is a heinous crime and that hundreds of organizations across the country are working to solve the challenges that come with human trafficking. I remind my honourable colleague that hundreds of organizations have received supports, and we will have more to announce to further support",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef (Minister for Women and Gender Equality and Rural Economic Development)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Vecchio.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "It's so very simple. What should we tell the young women and girls looking for these supports right now? What is the answer from the government?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Karen Vecchio"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, no one should have to live a life with violence, whether it's sexual, physical, financial or emotional, and that the government of Canada",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mrs. Vecchio.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. Yesterday I happened to be part of the health committee, and the Battered Women's Support Services representative was there as a witness. She shared with me that the organizations that she is associated with, over 500 organizations that deal with sexual assault and shelters, did not receive funding. Can you explain why?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Karen Vecchio"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank Angela and the team at the Battered Women's Support Services. They are receiving funds through Feminists Deliver, but there are hundreds of organizations that will receive additional funds to provide the critical care that they need to support front lines and the most vulnerable in their communities, and we will have more to say soon.",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we know that calls to centres like Battered Women's Support Services have gone up by 300 times, so this is a huge concern I have. What made this group of assault services and shelters ineligible?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Karen Vecchio"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, my colleague is putting words in my mouth. As I said, hundreds of organizations like the Battered Women's Support Services are going to be receiving funds from the federal government in the coming days. We thank them for their work and we will have more to say very soon.",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the need is now. For instance, at London Abused Women's Centre, calls are up by 45%. I've heard from communities where they've gone up 200%. As I said, yesterday I heard 300%. The money is needed now. Where is the money for this program?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Karen Vecchio"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, some organizations are seeing demands up as high as 400% with their capacity limited by 400%. We've centres and women's shelters, and 700 have received funds, with more to come soon. I appreciate that this Parliament includes consensus among all colleagues that feminism and supporting women",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Vecchio.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "If we're talking about being a feminist government, I have one single question. Yesterday the minister was not willing to answer the question, so I will ask the Minister for Women and Gender Equality. How can a feminist government support the Wet'suwet'en First Nation women whose titles were stripped from them?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Karen Vecchio"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it sounds like my honourable colleague wants to compare their record on advancing equality with ours. We are happy to do that, and the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations has been working very hard to move this historic agreement forward.",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "These women have lost their titles, and the decisions were made with the hereditary chiefs and not the elected chiefs. Why is this government not standing up for these women hereditary chiefs who were stripped of their titles?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Karen Vecchio"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I think the honourable member knows that the route to self-determination is to have first nations, Inuit, and Mtis determine their own governance and abide by their own laws. Right now the Wet'suwet'en nation is in that process of determining what kind of governance they would like.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carolyn Bennett (Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go on to Mr. Sweet.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. The Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act has passed both houses of Congress in the United States and is now on the way to the Oval Office for signature. What is Canada's position on this Muslim minority being jailed and re-educated by the Communist Party of China?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Sweet (FlamboroughGlanbrook, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are deeply concerned by the human rights situation faced by the Uighurs and other minorities in China. This is an issue our government has raised directly with the Chinese. Canada has also repeatedly voiced its concerns at the UN Human Rights Council. We will continue to call on",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Sweet.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "The Burmese government is another being exploited by the CPC. Their Muslim minority was driven out and now languishes in Bangladesh, which is a commonwealth partner in the midst of this global pandemic. What will Canada do to answer the injustice done to the Rohingya?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Sweet"
},
{
"content": "Canada will always stand with human rights. Canada has repeatedly voiced its concerns with the UN Human Rights Council. We will continue to call on the Chinese government to ensure that human rights of all of its people, including the freedom of religion, are fully respected.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Yesterday the rubber-stamp National People's Congress passed the national security bill undermining Hong Kong's autonomy and strengthening a grip of the Communist Party of China. Will the Prime Minister condemn this law?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Sweet"
},
{
"content": "Canada, with our international partners in the U.S., Australia and the U.K., made a joint statement in which we are expressing our deep concern regarding China's imposition of a new security law for Hong Kong.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Canada has an admirable history of doing the right thing and helping when the situation is bleak. The Suez Canal, Cyprus, the fall of apartheid, child and maternal health in Africa, and Afghanistan are examples in my lifetime of how Canada has weighed in significantly. Why is the government letting down Hong Kong?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Sweet"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, with hundreds of thousands of Canadians living in Hong Kong, we have a vested interest in Hong Kong's stability and prosperity, the foundations of which are Hong Kong's relative autonomy and basic freedoms. Canada will always support and promote freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedoms of the press around the world.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "I think the 300,000 Canadians who are in Hong Kong want a little bit more than interest from the government. They'd like some action. What exactly is the government going to do to help those 300,000 Canadians who are in the breach between democracy and tyranny now?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Sweet"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Canada has expressed deep concern regarding China's imposition of the new security law for Hong Kong. The proposed law would undermine the one country, two systems framework. We are going to continue to support and promote freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of the press around the world.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I have deep concern. After being fired at with pepper bullets and tear gas yesterday, 300 students were arrested in Hong Kong while peacefully protesting. Where is the outrage from this government with regard to what the CPC is doing in Hong Kong?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Sweet"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as we have said, we are deeply concerned about the arrests of political figures and about the law that has been imposed on Hong Kong. As we have said, Canada will always stand up and support freedom of speech and freedom of expression.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm going to give the minister another opportunity to answer the third question that I asked. Yesterday, the rubber-stamp National People's Congress passed the national security bill, undermining Hong Kong's autonomy and strengthening the iron grip of the Chinese Communist Party. Will this government condemn that law today?",
"speaker": "Mr. David Sweet"
},
{
"content": "Canada will continue to support Hong Kong's high degree of autonomy and freedoms under the Basic Law and the one country, two systems framework. Canada and our international partners, with the U.S., Australia and the U.K., have made a joint statement deeply expressing our concern regarding China's imposition of a new security law for Hong Kong.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "The floor goes to Mr.Lvis.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. Some hon. members: Ha, ha! Hon. Steven Blaney: I am pleased to represent the city of Lvis, because it is a privilege, Mr.Chair. It is the city where Alphonse Desjardins, who spearheaded the largest financial cooperative movement, was born. I hope you will not take that away from my time. My question is for the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion. On April8, the minister announced measures for the Canada summer jobs program. We thought it was to improve the program, but can the minister confirm that the budget remained the same between April7 and9?",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can confirm that we have increased the wage subsidies for Canada student jobs. We have added flexibilities, including the ability to have part-time work and the ability to have the jobs extended until February of next year. That said, the budget was not changed. It remains at 70,000 job placements for 70,000 students, with 100% of them being subsidized at 100%.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion)"
},
{
"content": "The minister confirms that the budget remains the same, but that by subsidizing each job more, they are reducing the number of jobs in the midst of the pandemic. Why reduce the number of jobs offered by our businesses in the midst of the pandemic, when our young people want to work?",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can assure the member, all members and all Canadians that despite the fact that he's singling out the Canada summer jobs program, we also created an additional 76,000 jobs through our youth employment and skills strategy, with an additional 40,000 placements for students. I can assure the member that we are",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "The floor goes to Mr.Blaney once again.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "How many jobs are vacant right now? The program is lagging behind compared to other years. Why, and how is it that there is still money to be invested in our businesses to create summer jobs?",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are not lagging behind whatsoever. We created flexibilities in Canada summer jobs so that we can assuredly fill all of these 70,000 positions. We are rolling them out in waves. There are 45,000 jobs up on our job bank. I can assure young Canadians that there is work for them there, and I encourage them to check out the job bank.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "The minister confirms that there are delays in the midst of the pandemic, when the university year is over and businesses are waiting to hire young people. Why refuse to create additional jobs this year under the Canada summer jobs program, when businesses need them to adjust to the pandemic?",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can assure you that we are not refusing to create any additional jobs. We've increased the number of jobs funded through our government's youth programs by over 100%. There are a number of jobs. We've added flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to maximize that program in ways that it never would have been maximized had we not done this. I can assure the member opposite that we are doing our utmost to make sure that young people have good-quality job experiences this summer.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "When the minister says maximize, she is actually saying that there are fewer jobs this year for young people because the budget has remained the same, but that each position is funded more. My question is very simple: why not fund more jobs through the Canada summer jobs program instead of having open-ended programs like the Canada emergency student benefit, which does not allow young people to get work experience? We need young people and they want to work.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney"
},
{
"content": "I agree, absolutely, that we need young people to work this summer. That's why we're creating a number of opportunities through a number of programs, Mr. Chair. Canada summer jobs is being maxed out, and that's a good thing, because we've increased the number of jobs and added an additional 76,000 jobs. I can assure the member that we're creating so many jobs, and it's so exciting for our young people.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "The Canada emergency student benefit does not encourage young people to go to work, and employers have difficulty hiring them. Yet they had applied for the Canada summer jobs program. Why not enhance the Canada summer jobs program?",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm sure the member opposite is not implying that offering young people income support that they take out of necessity will make them not want to work. Young people want to work. They want to serve in their communities. That's why we're creating these additional jobs beyond the Canada summer jobs program. That's why we've increased the flexibilities in the Canada summer jobs program. It's so we can maximize these programs.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "We'll go to Ms. Gladu.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yesterday my colleague asked the Minister of Public Safety a question, and he did not get a good answer. Why are asylum seekers being allowed to cross the closed border and reunify with their families when Canadians are not being allowed to reunify with their counterparts in the U.S.?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu (SarniaLambton, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, to correct an error that was just repeated, we have put in rules that have excluded people from non-essential travel. We currently have an agreement with the United States that people crossing our border irregularly are being directed back to the United States. We've put in protection for those individuals to uphold our international obligations. We're continuing to deal with the",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Gladu.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I have in my riding a pregnant woman who is having her first child. The father of the baby is not being allowed to come over. I have another citizen who's married to an American woman who needs medical services every three weeks who is not being allowed to go over and come back. I also have parents who have not seen their children in months because they're not allowing custody arrangements between Canadians and Americans to continue. Will the minister create exemptions to allow the reunification of these Canadians with their family?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu"
},
{
"content": "I thank the member for an important question. It is never our intention to keep families apart. At the same time, we are exercising all due diligence to ensure that we prevent non-essential travel to protect the health and safety of Canadians. We've been working very hard to ensure that we have a solution for those individuals who need and want to reunite with their families. We will have further information on that as soon as we're able to resolve that difficulty.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Minister of Agriculture has known there's been a capacity issue on cattle processing for more than a year and has done nothing. We don't have a BSE exemption that would allow us to use American processors, and there's been no incentive to create additional capacity to process. How bad does it have to get for the minister to act?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu"
},
{
"content": "We have done a great deal for the meat sector lately. We have invested $100million in the beef and pork sectors through the AgriRecovery program. That's a significant increase, because in the last few years the program has provided between $7million and $15million only. That is significant. We have also invested $77.5million to improve the capacity of processors",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food)"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Gladu.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "It still hasn't solved the problem. That's not a beef burger; that's a nothing burger. What is the minister going to do to help the cattle farmers who are struggling, especially in this pandemic?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, once again, we have helped the meat sector through the AgriRecovery program and we have put in place a $77.5million program to help meat processors deal with the situation and reorganize their work environment in a way that is safe for workers",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Ms. Gladu.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "It's not enough for the farmers in my area. To the Minister of National Revenue, I've had complaints from seniors in my riding that paper tax filings are not being processed. They're sitting on desks because people are not going in to the office. When will we begin to process those paper tax filings so seniors can get the refunds they need?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we consider this to be a difficult situation for Canadians, and our government will do everything it can to support them. I can confirm that the CRA is still processing paper returns, but because of the reduced staff on site and the physical distancing, Canadians can expect delays. We regret the inconvenience this causes for those who file their returns on paper",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue)"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Ms.Gladu.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I have a point of order. The sound is not very good. This happens when ministers respond in the House.",
"speaker": "Ms. Andranne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We will talk to the technicians about that. I'm not sure whether there's anything we can do now, but we'll see if we can sort it out for the next meeting. It will certainly be fixed by next Monday. In the meantime, we will do our best. Thank you very much for your comment. We go back to Ms. Gladu.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, obviously with COVID, many people are struggling with the loss of loved ones and their grief. The Canadian Grief Alliance has submitted a proposal looking for a very modest sum of funding from the government to extend their virtual grief counselling. Can the Minister of Health let us know if that funding has been approved?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu"
},
{
"content": "I'm not aware of that specific proposal, but I commit to asking my officials to bring it forward to me and I will take a look.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health)"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Gladu, you have time for a 15-second question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Many are struggling with mental health in this pandemic. Can the Minister of Health tell us what she is doing to increase the capacity to help people who are suffering?",
"speaker": "Ms. Marilyn Gladu"
},
{
"content": "I know I don't have much time, but let me repeat our infomercial to Canadians. They should visit Wellness Together Canada, the portal that will provide access for Canadians to a variety of mental health supports, including connection to professionals.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Champoux, you have the floor. I'm sorry, Mr.Champoux; you are next. Mr.Waugh now has the floor. Oh, it's Mr. Waugh. My apologies.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Major events and mass gatherings being really out of the conversation for the foreseeable future, many event venues right now, such as concert halls and fairgrounds, are looking at the possibility of going more than a year without any revenue. Many are owned or managed by non-profit organizations. I can think of many in my riding, such as the Saskatoon Fringe Festival, Shakespeare on the Saskatchewan, the jazz festival, the folk festival, along with WDM and the Aviation Museum. Can the Minister of Canadian Heritage tell us what support has been made available to date to these organizations that are left up in the air?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh (SaskatoonGrasswood, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "As the member knows, we have done a number of things in the past weeks to help the arts and culture sector. We could talk about the Canadian emergency response benefit, or the wage subsidy. We have provided advance help to a number of organizations from Canadian Heritage programs or the Canada Council for the Arts on top of the $500-million program, which has started to be deployed and will continue to be deployed in the coming weeks specifically for these types of organizations.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault (LaurierSainte-Marie, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Many media organizations are struggling. The reality only makes the allegations of predatory behaviour being levied against the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation even more disturbing. I asked the minister on May 7 about these allegations, and he said he had not been informed of the allegations but would look into them. We can't afford to have a Crown corporation using its status to try to wipe out its competitors in this country. Has the minister begun the investigation into the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, and does he have any information that he can share with us here today?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "As the member said, these are allegations, and as you well know, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is an independent body. It's not controlled by the Minister of Canadian Heritage or the government.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "Well, these allegations were in the National Post on April 22. I brought this up to you on May 7 when I talked virtually. Even more interesting, Mr. Chair, is that these allegations against the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation came from an organization in the minister's own province of Quebec, so can the minister take action to address any predatory behaviour on behalf of the CBC, or can the government's friends at the CBC simply get away with anything?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "Allegations are allegations, whether they are made in Quebec, Ontario or Alberta. As I said, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is an independent organization.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "When I last rose, on May 7, the committee responsible for the government's massive $595-million media bailout package had not met. It is now three weeks later. Has the committee met? If yes, when can the media organizationsand I hear there are only 29 publishersexpect the support promised? If it hasn't met, when is it going to meet?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "As the member is well aware, this program is a tax-break program. In order for organizations to qualify, they had to file their income tax forms, which they have done over the last few weeks. The program is in place, and we are confidant that media organizations will receive the money by the end of the summer.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Waugh, go ahead with a 20-second question, hopefully.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "There was $30 million rolled out to media organizations, some 1,400 organizations. Yesterday Postmedia announced another 40 layoffs. Has the $30 million been distributed so far in this country to all 1,400 media organizations?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "Honourable minister, go ahead for 20 seconds or less, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would be happy to provide the list of those 1,400 media organizations that have received funding through that ad campaign.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "We will continue with Mr.Champoux. You have the floor, Mr.Champoux.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I'm feeling generous today, and I will be sharing my time with my colleague from Pierre-BoucherLesPatriotesVerchres. At the beginning of the crisis, the government called on entrepreneurs in Quebec and Canada, inviting them to set an example in the situation we are experiencing. Many of them turned to the supplemental unemployment benefit plan to maintain the employment relationship and to preserve some security, enabling their employees to get through this difficult period with more peace of mind. However, on May22, despite the fact that these entrepreneurs had made sure that the SUB program would still be in place when the CERB was introduced, they were surprised. Employees were told at that time that they would have to repay the CERB because of the alleged gains they had made under the SUB program. At SOPREMA, one of the large employers in the Drummondville region, 150employees are affected. At Bridgestone, in Joliette, 1,100employees are affected by this decision. At Goodyear, in Valleyfield, 150employees are affected, and there are dozens more. Does the minister intend to correct this mistake so that employers who are able and willing to do so can treat their employees better during this difficult period?",
"speaker": "Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "When we put in place the Canada emergency response benefit, the underlying goal was to make sure that every worker who needed it had access to income support as they were losing their employment for COVID reasons. We understood that meant some workers would not have access moving forward, although let me clarify that SUB plans that existed prior to March 15 are definitely in place. We consider the fact that workers have access to $1,000 a month in addition to CERBand we've spoken with employers about thisto permit employers to assist their employees in an equitable way.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Champoux, you have 15seconds for your question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, employers received absolutely no news from the government before this measure was implemented, despite the fact that they were assured that this measure would be transferred to the CERB. That's not an answer when those folks acted honestly and in good faith. They feel cheated, and rightly so. Does the government intend to fix this mistake, which would simply be the right thing to do?",
"speaker": "Mr. Martin Champoux"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I can assure the member opposite that the SUB plans that were in place prior to March 15 are indeed in place now. In addition, employees who are now on the CERB as an alternative have access to $1,000 of income in addition to their CERB. We are working with employers to perhaps provide the $1,000 in lieu of the SUB plans.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "We will continue with you, Mr.Barsalou-Duval.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. On April27, Option consommateurs sent a letter to the Minister of Transport to warn him that the airlines' refusal to reimburse their customers for cancelled flights was contrary to Quebec's laws. What is the minister going to do to put an end to this situation?",
"speaker": "Mr. Xavier Barsalou-Duval (Pierre-BoucherLes PatriotesVerchres, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I sympathize with the people who would have preferred to get a refund, and I understand their frustration. It is not an ideal situation. The airlines are going through a very difficult time right now. If they were forced to refund their customers immediately, many of them would go bankrupt.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau (Minister of Transport)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the minister sounds like a broken record. A few hours ago, the following motion was passed unanimously: THAT the National Assembly ask the Government of Canada to order airlines and other carriers under federal jurisdiction to allow customers whose trips have been cancelled because of the current pandemic to obtain a refund. What will the Minister of Transport tell the National Assembly of Quebec?",
"speaker": "Mr. Xavier Barsalou-Duval"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, as my hon.colleague knows, the Canadian Transportation Agency has ruled on this issue and has ruled that, in the present circumstances and in a non-binding way, it is acceptable for airlines to offer credits for up to two years. In the case of Air Canada, the credit has no expiry date.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Barsalou-Duval, you have about 15seconds for a question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I find it rather odd that the Minister of Transport and the Canadian Transportation Agency are telling the airlines that Quebec's regulations and laws are not important and that they can override them. It seems to me that this is a strange way to operate. Theoretically, under the famous Canadian Constitution, which they imposed on us, that is not how it should work. Can they uphold their own constitution?",
"speaker": "Mr. Xavier Barsalou-Duval"
},
{
"content": "The hon. minister can answer in 15seconds or less, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, as my hon. colleague probably knows, the Canadian Transportation Agency is a quasi-judicial body that operates at arm's length from Transport Canada and the Government of Canada.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "We will now take a short break. We're going to take a short break to allow employees supporting the meeting to switch in safety, including myself.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "We will now carry on with Mr. Baker for Etobicoke Centre. Mr. Baker, go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC))"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'll be sharing my time with the member for GlengarryPrescottRussell. My question is for the Minister of Health. Minister, in Etobicoke Centre, we are mourning the loss of 42 residents to COVID-19 at the Eatonville Care Centre. This week, we received a disturbing report from the Canadian Armed Forces documenting appalling and completely unacceptable conditions in the Eatonville Care Centre in Etobicoke, Orchard Villa in Pickering, Altamont Care Community in Scarborough, Hawthorne Place in North York, and Holland Christian Homes Grace Manor in Brampton. It is beyond reprehensible that our seniors are being treated this way. As I said in the House of Commons on May 7, we need immediate action and comprehensive reform of long-term care. The four other MPs who represent the residents of these homes and I wrote to Premier Ford yesterday to urge him to appoint a third party manager to oversee all operations, to call a full public inquirybecause a government commission is not enoughand to work in partnership with the Government of Canada to establish enforceable national standards for long-term care homes across our country. Minister, will you call on the Government of Ontario to establish a full public inquiry, and will you work with provincial governments to establish and implement enforceable national standards for long-term care homes across Canada so that our seniors from coast to coast to coast can receive the quality of care they deserve?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yvan Baker (Etobicoke Centre, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I thank the member for his very important question. I think all Canadians were horrified, shocked and saddened to hear about the conditions that elders were living in in those particular homes and that many seniors struggle with across the country. There is no question that we have to do better for our seniors. I know the Prime Minister has been very vocal about the need to do more to support provinces and territories to provide better care for seniors, no matter where they live.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Baker, you have another 20 seconds or so if you can manage that.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I'll pass on my time to the member for GlengarryPrescottRussell.",
"speaker": "Mr. Yvan Baker"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Drouin, member for GlengarryPrescottRussell.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we know that farmers across Canada have been going through some difficult times in recent months. In my riding, farmers are looking for labour and young people are looking for jobs. The Canada summer jobs program plays a vital role in meeting this demand. I was very pleased to hear that the government has enhanced the youth employment and skills strategy program to help create 700new jobs for young people in the agriculture sector. Can the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food tell us when and how our farmers will be able to apply for this new program?",
"speaker": "Mr. Francis Drouin (GlengarryPrescottRussell, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, in these unprecedented times, our producers are working that much harder to feed Canadians while facing challenges that are not always easy, particularly in terms of access to labour. To help them, this week, the Prime Minister announced an increase in the youth employment and skills strategy program to help young people be hired in the agricultural sector. This is a $9.2-million investment that will help to attract young Canadians between the ages of15 and30 and to provide them with an exceptional experience in the agricultural sector. I encourage all producers to apply through the Agriculture Canada website.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "I think you finished, Mr.Drouin. We'll move on now to Mr. Johns, CourtenayAlberni.",
"speaker": "Mr. Bruce Stanton"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'll be splitting my time with the member for Winnipeg Centre. In early April, the NDP asked for a commercial rent abatement program so that tenants could apply for help instead of depending on their landlords, but the government chose to leave commercial tenants helpless if their landlord can't or does not want to apply. On Monday we wrote to ministers again, asking them to negotiate a nationwide moratorium on commercial rent evictions with the provinces and territories so that tenants can't be kicked out. Will the minister take action to ensure that no small business owner is evicted during COVID-19?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gord Johns (CourtenayAlberni, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. We recognize the challenges that small business owners in particular, as well as landlords, are facing during the course of COVID-19. We have worked together with the provinces to come up with an approach that would provide an incentive for landlords to give a rent reduction to commercial tenants. We opened that as of Monday. Of course, we recognize that this is a jurisdiction of the provinces, so it will be up to the provinces to consider the next steps, if any, in this regard. We are looking toward seeing many landlords sign up for this. I would like to take this opportunity to encourage landlords to sign up for this, which not only gives them a sense of security but also their tenants.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau (Toronto Centre, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "That's a no, so the government is still failing small businesses. If small business owners can't make June rent, thousands will have to close permanently. If the government won't negotiate a moratorium, will it at least let tenants apply for the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program so they can get help with 50% of their rent?",
"speaker": "Mr. Gord Johns"
},
{
"content": "Again, Mr. Chair, I think it's important that we have clarity of understanding of jurisdictions. We have worked with the provinces in this regard. The federal government is working through the CMHC to provide support to landlords, which is conditional on their working with their tenants, but of course, it is a provincial area of jurisdiction, so any further actions and any decisions on restricting evictions are in the provincial jurisdiction and not ones that the federal government is able to move forward on.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Ms. Gazan, Winnipeg Centre.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, they talk about wanting to support small businesses, but their failure to make rent support work is putting businesses out of business. When it comes to the rent for people's homes, the government didn't even try. Many people in my riding could not make rent on April 1 and May 1, and June 1 is coming up. When will the government act to ensure that families and individuals make their rent payments?",
"speaker": "Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, for individuals, of course we've worked hard to provide support. Over eight million individuals are taking the Canada emergency response benefit. For businesses, of course, we've put in place not only the business account for small businesses but additional support through the wage subsidy program. We know that the rent approach is one that can have an important impact. I would encourage landlords to",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Morneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.",
"speaker": "Ms. Leah Gazan"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Gazan, just a moment. Go ahead on your point of order.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "I just want to remind my honourable colleague that his response is supposed to be within the same time period as the question I asked. It's just a friendly reminder.",
"speaker": "Ms. Leah Gazan"
},
{
"content": "That is accurate. In fact, the minister was just coming up to the same amount of time it took for your question. I am monitoring that, and we will interrupt if one of the ministers responding goes more than just a short time over. In fact, we try to cut it off at the appropriate time, allowing a word or two perhaps to finish a phrase, and that's the extent of it. I'll watch that closely, the member can be assured. Let's go ahead then and finish up. You have another minute and 20 seconds to finish up, Ms. Gazan.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Winnipeg Centre is the third-poorest riding in the country, and COVID-19 has put many of the residents in my riding on the verge of homelessness. Instead of bailing out its corporate buddies, when will this government provide proper rental assistance so that families and individuals do not end up on the streets?",
"speaker": "Ms. Leah Gazan"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have provided support for families and individuals to maintain their ability to pay the rent. In addition to that, we have provided over $157.5 million directly to community entities for homelessness all across Canada .",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development)"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Gazan, you have about 40 seconds remaining.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, adequate housing is a fundamental human right, especially in this time of crisis. How can the government not show leadership and provide the support that people need to afford their homes? Will this government provide support, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Ms. Leah Gazan"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, once again, we have provided support to families and individuals so that they have the ability to pay their rent and pay for essential supplies and expenses. In addition to that, we have moved additional dollars, in the amount of $157.5 million, to the most vulnerable, including the homeless population in Canada.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to Ms. Harder from Lethbridge.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "As this pandemic began to spread, the government propagated China's talking points about how human-to-human transmission was impossible. Now, I'm sure that the minister regrets those comments. Does she acknowledge that they were misleading?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the member opposite's continued lack of awareness of how science works is somewhat disconcerting. I'm sure she understands that this is a novel coronavirus that appeared on the scene in late December, and as the research community worldwide struggled to keep pace with understanding how the virus was adapting, the information changed. As such",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Harder.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "I'm simply wondering if the minister would like to do the honourable thing and acknowledge that that information was misleading. Some hon. members: Hear, hear!",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, since the very beginning, we have been advising Canadians that they need to protect themselves from the novel coronavirus. We have taken strong measures, as a country, to do so. We respect the professionals",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Ms. Harder.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "The minister also said that face masks weren't necessary, that they wouldn't help Canadians. Would she acknowledge that that was misleading? An hon. member: Good question.",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the party opposite, obviously, does not understand the way that research and science evolve. The member opposite is propagating information that's misleading. She is the one who is confusing Canadians.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Why is the health minister misleading the Canadian public?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as the evidence changed about the novel coronavirus, as our amazing researchers gave us new evidence, we adapted to adjust our advice to Canadians.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Why is the minister not able to acknowledge that she fed the Canadian public misinformation?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, why is the member not able to understand that science evolves with new information?",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Back in January when we started noticing other countries closing their borders to stop the spread of COVID-19, Conservatives asked the government if it would do the same. In response, the Prime Minister called us racist. Does the Prime Minister still consider those who called for the closure of borders racist?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, providing misleading information to Canadians is not appropriate. As the member opposite knows, we took strong measures at the border, as recommended by the international health regulations, and we were able to contain the virus for quite some time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "I cannot agree with the minister more that providing misinformation is, in fact, incredibly wrong, which is why the government should simply apologize to the Canadian public for telling them that there was no emergency at our doorstep, that they didn't need to wear face masks, that we didn't need to close our borders, that human contact or contraction was impossible. Those are incredibly misleading statements. Why will the minister not just do the honourable thing and retract them and apologize to the Canadian public? Some hon. members: Hear, hear!",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I maintain that the member opposite does not understand that as new evidence comes forward, that as new advice comes forward.... Canadians understand that. I am unsure why she doesn't.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "I understand that knowledge evolves. I'm just wondering if the minister will retract the statements that she made previously, now that she understands that they are misleading.",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I am so proud of Canadians for being able to adapt to new evidence and public health advice as it becomes clearer and clearer what kinds of actions can protect our health. I want to thank all Canadians for having trust in the public health officials across this country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "On February 3, Conservatives called on the government to treat this virus as a public health emergency and to take immediate action. Unfortunately, Minister Hajdu scolded Conservative MPs, stating that we were spreading misinformation and trying to sensationalize the risk of the virus. Would the minister like to apologize to the members opposite for that statement?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, very early on it was quite clear there were members of our community who were stigmatized by misinformation that was floating around in various circles in the Canadian community. We took strong action to assure those Canadians that we would be with them as we also fought the coronavirus in Canada.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Would the minister like to retract her statement that this side of the House somehow blew this up into something bigger than it is?",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as early as January 2, Dr. Tam was convening members of the Canadian medical community to ensure that we would have a robust Canadian response to an issue of potential concern. We have taken this virus seriously every step of the way.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "In truth, Mr. Chair, while the government has told the Canadian public that the virus was not something to be concerned about, that we didn't need to close the borders and that face masks weren't necessary, they were misleading the Canadian public. Now they are crowning themselves as the arbiters of truth, spending millions of dollars to censor what information is and is not available online. Would the minister like to respond to why she is misleading the Canadian public and then crowning her head with the ability to monitor",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder"
},
{
"content": "We're out of time. The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to thank our public health officials and medical community for their incredible work in ensuring that Canadians have accurate information about how best to protect themselves. We continue to work with the community and Canadians. Together we have managed to flatten the curve to date.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "I invite the honourable member for MganticL'rable to take the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. One million dollars is the cost of installing air conditioning for a number of rooms in a CHSLD; it is a new fire station; it is 200more student jobs for day camps in Quebec. With $1million, the Liberal government plans to give an annual bonus to the president of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. Does the Minister of Infrastructure agree with the bank's board, which is being so generous to its president with Canadians' money?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold (MganticL'rable, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I am very proud of what our government has done to invest in communities across the country. We are investing in infrastructure. We are building by investing in renewable energy, green infrastructure and public transit, including in the member's riding. That is what we will continue to do. I am very proud that Michael Sabia has decided to join the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We are going to continue our work.",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna (Minister of Infrastructure and Communities)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, could the infrastructure minister explain to Canadians how it is better to give $1 million in bonuses to the CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank than to invest in roads, schools, hospitals and long-term care homes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I am very happy to explain to the member opposite that we are doing just that. Perhaps he isn't aware of our $33 billion infrastructure program in which we are working directly with the Government of Quebec to build infrastructure that's making a huge difference, including projects in the member's riding. We are going to continue doing that.",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, she is not answering the question at all. On April3, the previous president of the Canada Infrastructure Bank left his position for reasons that remain unclear. How much did he receive in bonuses for his years at the helm of the Canada Infrastructure Bank?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the change of management at the Canada Infrastructure Bank marks a new phase in the development of the bank. We are working to build a modern, public infrastructure, to create jobs, and to make Canada more competitive internationally.",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "We are talking about the bonuses given to the president of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We have received no answer on that. What were the evaluation criteria that led to the decision that the former CEO had delivered a performance worthy of a bonus, when few, if any, projects were financed by the bank?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I would like to thank the former CEO, Pierre Lavalle, for his contribution to the establishment of this new institution. I am very proud that Michael Sabia has joined the bank. We will continue to work to build Canada and create good jobs.",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "How much did he receive in bonuses?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "The range of compensation for the CEO is set by the bank and is publicly available.",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "Did the minister approve the bonuses paid to the former president of the Canada Infrastructure Bank?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "As I have already said, the compensation range for the CEO is determined by the bank and is public knowledge because of the legislation",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Berthold, the floor is yours.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. If the new president stays in the position for five years, he could be entitled to a bonus totalling $4million, in addition to his salary of $3million. Does the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities consider that this is a good way to spend taxpayers' money?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "We have to build our country, create good short-term jobs, ensure that we have a cleaner future, invest in renewable energy and green infrastructure in order to build bridges, public transportation",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Berthold, the floor is yours.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, if the new CEO stays in office for five years, he will be entitled to a total potential bonus of $4 million, in addition to his salary of $3 million. Does the Minister of Infrastructure think this is a good way to spend taxpayers' money, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Berthold"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm very proud that we have Michael Sabia, who is now head of the Canada Infrastructure Bank as the board chair. We need to move forward in building infrastructure that's going to create jobs, including in the member's riding; that's going to help move us to a cleaner future; that's going to grow our economy and increase Canada's competitiveness. The bank is a key part of the investing in Canada plan",
"speaker": "Hon. Catherine McKenna"
},
{
"content": "We will now move to Mrs. Gray, KelownaLake Country.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the COVID-19 pandemic has shown how important it is to be able to move our goods interprovincially. Christian Buhagiar of Supply Chain Canada called for the government to revisit interprovincial trade regulations to ensure we can quickly move production and distribution from one region to another during times of emergency. Will the government commit to immediately examine all our trade barriers that can affect interprovincial trade of essential goods due to COVID-19?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Tracy Gray (KelownaLake Country, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "I'd like to thank the member opposite for her excellent point. Our government is very committed to removing barriers to interprovincial trade. It's something that we have been working on with the premiers. Obviously the coronavirus has taken precedence in recent weeks, but it's a priority. It's the right thing to do.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the federal government has a regulatory reconciliation table as part of the Canada free trade agreement, focusing on breaking down interprovincial trade barriers. Due to COVID-19, it has been announced that deadlines for all of these items may be delayed. What is the government doing to ensure there won't be delays on these items?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Tracy Gray"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it is absolutely right and appropriate for first ministers, who have been meeting every week for more than two months, to be focusing on the urgent threat posed by the coronavirus. However, I agree with the member opposite that we need to lift barriers to interprovincial trade. That's something we're committed to doing and to working on with the premiers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, while many of these items were past due prior to the pandemic, two important items from the list that should be worked on now are meat inspection and food inspection. Considering serious issues from these industries during the pandemic, would the minister commit to restarting the work on at least these two items?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Tracy Gray"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. I can assure you, as far as the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is concerned, that we are very open to that issue. Moreover, the authorities are front and centre in cases where there may be a food shortage in one region of the country or another.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, COVID-19 is adding huge pressures to our national supply chain. Those I speak with in the industry tell me they are beginning to see a backlog of goods. Does the government have a comprehensive plan to ensure the movement and resiliency of our national supply chain?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Tracy Gray"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, since we are discussing the food supply chain, let me remind you that we are committed to spending $50million, specifically to buy surplus food and redistribute it, through the food bank network, to regions where the need is greatest.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, reports state that activists' rail blockades earlier this year cost the Canadian economy $275 million, and it took three to five days to catch up for every day that our transportation network was down. The supply chain industry just caught up, and then the pandemic hit, creating new issues and backlogs. We are hearing from those in the industry who are concerned about future blockades affecting essential goods getting across the country. Our railways are critical infrastructure. Will the government commit to immediately dismantling any potential future blockades?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Tracy Gray"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister may reply.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I couldn't agree more with my colleague that it is important for our railways to be transporting all the goods that we produce in this country. I am in contact on a weekly basis with our major railways. Certain products are moving very well at the moment, including grain, potash and coal, but other goods haven't moved as quickly, because they have been affected by the pandemic. We are very vigilant with respect to moving our goods as efficiently as possible, whether it's by our railways, by trucks or by ships.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, at the standing committee for industry this week, David Montpetit of the Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition stated that they believe shippers are going to face a container shortage over the next six months. He also stated that we could be facing labour and capacity shortages in our trucking industry. This could backlog essential goods interprovincially, including food and medicine, if the capacity isn't there. What steps is the government taking to address this problem?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Tracy Gray"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, of course it's always important to have the capacity to move goods across this country. At the moment, our trains have the capacity to move goods across the country. With respect to trucking, we do have issues with respect to a lack of truckers for moving some of our goods across the country. This is a problem that has existed for some time, and we're working on it.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now move on to Mrs. Wagantall of YorktonMelville. Mrs. Wagantall, go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Young and new farmers are struggling, as they don't have enough equity built up to borrow money to survive these difficult times. Price insurance is key, but the premiums are so expensive due to COVID that they can't participate. Has a price insurance program been implemented in Atlantic Canada?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall (YorktonMelville, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Yes, Mr.Chair, we are encouraging the use of private programs, as well as the risk management programs. The initiative must come from the private sector. I cannot answer my colleague's question directly.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Has the minister worked with her provincial counterparts to secure a short-term cost-sharing agreement to reduce premiums where price insurance already exists?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I can assure my colleague that I am working very regularly with all my provincial colleagues. In addition to our individual meetings, we have a regular telephone meeting each week.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Is cost-sharing of premiums already available for crop insurance?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, for insurance protection, our proposal to the provinces is to include the possibility of recognizing a labour shortage as an insurable risk. It is up to each of the provinces to sign on to that or not.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Without price insurance, how many ranchers have had to address cash flow by selling cattle at the bottom of the market?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we have established a number of programs in order to help our beef producers. For example, we are providing $50million through the AgriRecovery program and $77.5million for food processors.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "On May 1, the Young Cattlemen's Council asked the minister to extend the deadline for attaining calf price insurance. Today is that deadline. Did the minister meet it?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we discuss different options with representatives of various organizations almost every day. We are trying to work with them to improve the various programs and to meet their needs, in addition to the risk management programs, of course.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "She didn't respond to the request of the Young Cattlemen's Council. The minister is telling farmers to access the BRM program, but just now I got a text from a young cattleman in my riding who's losing $250 to $300 per head and just told me that those programs in no way increase their capacity to deal with this crisis. The Farm Credit Canada lending capacity was increased by $5 billion, but only to service and manage loans of current customers. How many farmers have applied for that assistance?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "However, Mr.Chair, there is a whole range of programs for our producers, whether they be specific programs for the agriculture sector, or the Canada emergency business account, the CEBA, the criteria of which have been broadened. This allows us to provide more loans, also with a forgivable portion of 25%, which could amount to $670million for the agricultural sector.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "What percentage of Canada's farmers are customers of Farm Credit Canada?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, Farm Credit Canada is well-established from one end of the country to the other and it is ready to meet the needs of our agricultural producers. In addition",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Back to Ms. Wagantall.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Of the 25% of farmers who use FCC and have applied, how many have received assistance?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I stand to be corrected but, according to the most recent information I have received, $4billion in flexible loans to producers have been made available since the crisis began.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "You have 45 seconds left, Ms. Wagantall.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Is the minister concerned that cow-calf numbers will sharply decrease if producers aren't able to protect the value of their herds, which they cannot do, jeopardizing the future of the Canadian beef supply chain?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I can assure you that I am extremely concerned about the future of the agri-food sector. That is why we are working extremely hard with the sector every day to improve existing programs and create new ones, especially in support of the meat industry.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "They made it clear that the BRM programs don't work and there's not funding in place to assist them. Three weeks ago, the processing backlog was more than 100,000 head. How many beef operations are facing the real danger of going out of business because of this pandemic and the lack of support by the agriculture minister and this Liberal government?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall"
},
{
"content": "Once again, Mr.Chair, we know that the risk-management programs are not perfect. That is why we are working with the provinces to find solutions. These are shared-cost programs with the provinces and we want to improve them. This is why we are trying to incorporate some flexibility. In addition, we are supplementing the funding, especially for the meat industry.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Ms. Wilson-Raybould in Vancouver Granville.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister of Employment has stated that measures would be forthcoming for individuals with disabilities, similar to the one-time payment increase given to seniors on OAS and GIS. Could the minister please provide some more details with respect to the statement she made? When can individuals with disabilities expect meaningful financial assistance?",
"speaker": "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould (Vancouver Granville, Ind.)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we know that Canadians with disabilities are disproportionately impacted by COVID in terms of both their own personal health and the access to supports that they have, or don't have, more specifically. We are three days away from National AccessAbility Week, the first week after we legislated it in the Accessible Canada Act. I would expect something from our government during that week.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that. My office has heard from many constituents who are frustrated over the lack of information on eligibility requirements from the government regarding the business credit availability program. Furthermore, banks are giving small and medium-sized businesses mixed messaging. How will the government ensure that the messaging for BCAP and similar programs is articulated properly?",
"speaker": "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the honourable member for her question. Nothing is more important to us right now than making sure our small and medium-sized businesses are supported. The lending program through BCAP is available through financial institutions; that's banks and credit unions across the country. The money is flowing to those businesses. I would encourage Canadian businesses to get in touch with their financial institutions. Thank you so much.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, members may not be aware, but there are ongoing restrictions on when some civil servants can access government servers and their files due to the pandemic, to ensure that those dealing directly with the pandemic have priority. For example, this is affecting negotiations with indigenous peoples. Can the government please tell us when the system will have sufficient capacity so that all civil servants can do their work remotely and without limitation?",
"speaker": "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to my colleague for her important question, which indeed speaks to the importance of public servants continuing their important jobs for Canadians, being mindful, of course, of the difficult circumstances in which many of those workers find themselves, both personally and professionally. We know that, in particular, indigenous communities need that support, and particularly so in the context of the crisis. We look forward to continuing to support them.",
"speaker": "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (President of the Treasury Board)"
},
{
"content": "As current and former parliamentarians call for a national inquiry into long-term care homes, something I would strongly support, can the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations please give the members an idea as to when the action plan on murdered and missing indigenous women and girls will be released? In asking this question, I certainly understand the need for consultation and the reality of some delays due to the pandemic. There are of course many actions that we all know need to take place now that do not need more consultation. The need for consultation cannot be an excuse for the lack of action.",
"speaker": "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould"
},
{
"content": "I thank the member for her ongoing advocacy. As we approach the first anniversary of the release of the final report, we are grateful for the work of all of our partners as they really try to do what they can to end this national tragedy of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and those who are two-spirited, plus. Despite the challenges of COVID-19, they have put in good initiatives, and we look forward to releasing a national action plan that will include all provinces and territories as well as all of our indigenous governments and partners.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carolyn Bennett"
},
{
"content": "Ms. Wilson-Raybould, you're down to about the last 30 seconds, so please ask a short question.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "I have a short question for the Minister of Transport. Does the government have any plans to step in and encourage airlines to return money to customers rather than vouchers? I've heard from many constituents and businesses in this regard.",
"speaker": "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, as I mentioned before, we're very sympathetic to the situation that those who would have preferred a refund are in at the moment. However, the airlines are going through an extremely difficult time, and if they had to reimburse at this time, some of them could fail.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Garneau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Blaikie.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I want to begin by indicating that I'll be splitting my time with the member for SkeenaBulkley Valley. Across the country, a lot of Canadians are preparing to go back to work right now and some employers are doing a good job of ensuring that there is a safe workplace, with the right procedures and the right equipment. Unfortunately, some employers are not. For Canadians who are employed by them, that means making a really tough decision between going back to a workplace where they don't feel safe and which may present a threat to their families or communities, and staying home and worrying about not being paid because they're not at work or because they will lose access to the CERB. I am wondering what guidance the federal government has for people who feel that their workplace is not safe at this time and that their employer hasn't done its due diligence, and are concerned about losing access to the CERB.",
"speaker": "Mr. Daniel Blaikie (ElmwoodTranscona, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we are very concerned about the safety of our workplaces and we don't want workers to feel unsafe as they go back to work. However, we do want people to go back to work. We are working very closely with the provinces. The Minister of Health is working on occupational health and safety guidelines. The Minister of Labour is working with her colleagues. We are taking an all-of-government approach to ensure that workers are safe, that they don't have to put their lives or the health of their families in jeopardy and that we can support them in these efforts.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I think the issue here is that Canadian workers really need some certainty about what the federal government would consider an adequate employment offer, or an offer to come back to work, so that they wouldn't be on the CERB. Can Canadians be confident that they can stay on the CERB whether they go back to work or not, whether their employer makes them an offer or not? I think a lot of people have anxiety about this and it's a difficult time. When is the government going to release some formal guidance on how people go about refusing unsafe work?",
"speaker": "Mr. Daniel Blaikie"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we know that the provinces have their own workers' compensation programs and refusal-to-work mechanisms, but the point for us, here in government, is to work with employers and with the provinces so that we make our workplaces safe.",
"speaker": "Hon. Carla Qualtrough"
},
{
"content": "But this is about CERB eligibility. I respect",
"speaker": "Mr. Daniel Blaikie"
},
{
"content": "Order. Mr. Blaikie, we have run out of time since we are splitting the time between two speakers. We're now going to Mr. Bachrach.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Canadians depend on municipalities across Canada for vital services, especially during this pandemicservices like transit, drinking water, parks and sanitationyet the government has left municipalities in an unprecedented financial crisis. Local government leaders across the country have called on the government for help, yet mostly what we've heard are excuses. Does the minister acknowledge that the federal government has a leadership role to play in getting financial help to municipalities at this difficult time?",
"speaker": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach (SkeenaBulkley Valley, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "What we do acknowledge is the essential role municipalities play in our country at all times, and the particularly essential role they play today as our country gets ready to restart our economy. We are working closely with the municipalities to talk about ways we can support them and are working closely with the provinces, in whose jurisdiction the municipalities fall.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "Through you to the minister, we've seen deep cuts and more cuts are on the way. We've seen thousands of municipal workers laid off, and it's been over a month since municipal leaders called on this government for emergency financial relief. My question is very simple. When can the municipalities expect the help they need from the federal government?",
"speaker": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach"
},
{
"content": "Let me just say again, Mr. Chair, that we are extremely alive to the importance of municipalities in our economy. We are very aware of the difficult financial situation they find themselves in, and we are very aware of how important it is to keep our municipalities functioning, particularly as we move into the restart. We're working with municipalities and are urging them to work with their provinces, as we are doing too.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "We have about 30 seconds left. Go ahead, Mr. Bachrach, for 30 seconds.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "I have a very simple question, through you to the minister. Are there emergency federal dollars on the table for Canada's cities, yes, or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Taylor Bachrach"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the federal government very much understands and appreciates the importance of municipalities. We are prepared to support them. Provinces need to do their share too.",
"speaker": "Hon. Chrystia Freeland"
},
{
"content": "I now invite the honourable member for Manicouagan to take the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. At a time when we are asking our fellow citizens and Quebeckers to make sacrifices and even greater efforts, the Liberal Party, the government, is directly pilfering from a subsidy program that should be going to those who need it, not to rich political parties and their millionaire supporters. At a time when the work in the House is even more essentialwe should be working even harder, just as we are asking the people to dothe government, with the complicity of the NDP, decides to suspend the work of the House. This is the result of an absurd agreement that is absolutely impossible for it to implement. Can the government confirm to the House, and simultaneously to the NDP, that the measure involving 10days of leave is absolutely not something it can do? It is not in its jurisdiction, so it is a measure that it cannot implement.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Marilne Gill (Manicouagan, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, in order to be part of any agreement, you have to negotiate and be sitting at the table. The Bloc Qubcois says it wants to make gains for Quebec, but in order to do that, it must be sitting at the table, not outside the room. It's like a hockey game; if you want to score goals, you have to be on the ice. The other day, I asked this question: how many of Guy Lafleur's 560goals were scored when he was sitting on the bench?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons)"
},
{
"content": "Let me shoot the puck back to the Leader of the Government in the House. He himself decided to close the rink, to shut down Parliament. That is where the teams are, and that is where the goals are scored. But when you play a sport, when you are on a team, and when you are in Parliament, you still have to play by the rules. But the government does not keep its word. It made a promise to us as well, just like it made one to the NDP. It was about the Canada emergency student benefit. The Deputy Prime Minister herself said that it was certainly a good idea. What did the government do? It backed away. I play on a team and I play by the rules. I take it at its word because this is the right place. Here, in this chamber. So I would like the government to tell people that this measure is absolutely not in their jurisdiction. That was my previous question. It was not about which parties were negotiating or not and when they kept their word or not. The NDP has to realize that their agreement is absolutely worthless.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Marilne Gill"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, my colleague is alluding to previous current and future agreements. We have had discussions and we have reached a number of agreements with our friends in the Bloc Qubcois. It was going very well, but there was one agreement they did not like and they went off and sulked. When you are not happy, you do not go off and sulk; you stay at the table and negotiate. That is how things work.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "I urge the honourable Leader of the Government to recall the House. I am ready to be here, on the ice, all the time. I must remind him that we are not sulking. The Bloc Qubcois has self-respect and respect for the public. An agreement is not a promise, it is an agreement. A word is given in dignity and sincerity; a bond of trust is created. When a player decides not to play by the rules, I do not let myself be taken in twice. I prefer to negotiate here, as we should be doing all the time in Parliament, not trying to play with someone who never keeps his word. I would just like the Leader of the Government in the House to tell us that the measure about the 10days is not up to him and so he will not be able to make it happen. I could also ask him whether he found out from the Government of Quebec whether it agreed with the measure.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Marilne Gill"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, of course, it is not in my jurisdiction personally. We agree on that. It depends on a number of players, including the provinces and the private sector. We at federal level are holding discussions with the provinces and people in different areas. Of course, we are holding discussions with everyone involved. I want to know what my colleague has against having six hours of questions instead of four. What does she have against the fact that, from now on, people will be able to ask questions about anything, not just about COVID-19? What does she have against the fact that we are going to meet again this summer? What is it that she does not like?",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Ms.Gill, you have about 30seconds left for your comment. Go ahead.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Let me teach the Leader of the Government in the House some arithmetic. First, 37.5hours per week, as well as the time we spend sitting on our normal committees, is quite a bit more than the eight short hours each week he is giving us. Second, once again, the leader said that it is absolutely not in his jurisdiction. So he reaches agreements with parties though his word is worth nothing. I hope that the NDP has not reached an agreement with him.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Marilne Gill"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, it all depends on government decisions, and clearly, we are having discussions with the provinces. Actually, we have already started doing that. However, I still do not understand what she has against having more time than I do to ask questions. I would really like an answer from her.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "We will now take a brief pause so that the technicians can spell each other off. Order. I see Mr. Bezan on a point of order.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Earlier, during the question time here, Mr. Sweet, the member for Flamborough-Glanbrook, got up and was raising a number of issues about the Hong Kong protests, where 360 people have been arrested. The People's Republic of China, the regime in Beijing, and their rubber-stamp parliament, the National People's Congress, are circumventing Hong Kong legislation and the Hong Kong government in putting their own will upon the people of Hong Kong. I believe this demands an emergency debate here in the House of Commons. Mr. Chair, I'm asking if you would rule on this and schedule an emergency debate so that Parliament can actually discuss this crisis, this human rights crisis, as political protestors are being imprisoned because of their standing up against the communist regime in Beijing.",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I thank the honourable member, Mr. Bezan, for his point of order. It was really more of a request. He may know, and for the benefit of other honourable members, that we're operating in this Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic under the auspices of an order made earlier this week. There is no provision in that order for emergency debates. However, I would certainly encourage him to speak with his House leader, whips and others. Of course, he'll know that discussions of this sort are being shared, so he might want to pursue that opportunity. I see Mr. Bezan rising. Mr. Bezan, is it a different point of order?",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "No. I'd just like to respond to that if I could.",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Well, there's",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this is the problem with this special committee. Our rights and privileges as members have been completely degraded. It makes it impossible for us to address the issues of this day.",
"speaker": "Mr. James Bezan"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Bezan, we're all operating under an order that was agreed to by the House. We'll stick to those provisions. Again, understand the situation we're in. Certainly circumstances do change, but I leave that to the party leaders to decide. For our last round of questions, we're going to CharleswoodSt. JamesAssiniboiaHeadingley, Mr. Morantz.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. My questions are for the Minister of National Revenue. Minister, I've been informed by some of my colleagues that CRA officials have been directing constituents to phone their member of Parliament to resolve CRA-related issues. Why on earth would CRA direct individuals away from the agency during this stressful time when they're just trying to get their tax information and file their taxes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Marty Morantz (CharleswoodSt. JamesAssiniboiaHeadingley, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I thank my colleague for that important question. I can tell you that CRA employees have to deal with questions put to them. It is not up to MPs' offices to deal with specific questions about individual files.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "Minister, you didn't answer the question. These are your CRA officials directing constituents away from the CRA. You really should be answering that question and not just talking about how inappropriate it is, although I appreciate that. Also, on your website, it says that the telephone service for the individual-inquiries line will be available to Canadians until June 5, and there is no further information about further live service. When will you get your agency under control and make sure it provides an actual person on the other end of the line to provide the information that taxpayers need?",
"speaker": "Mr. Marty Morantz"
},
{
"content": "Just before we go to the minister, I would remind hon. members to address their questions through the chair. It's a little bit different from when we're questioning witnesses in a committee. We're using the rules more related to what we use in committee of the whole. The honourable minister has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "On a point of order, Mr. Chair, as far as I'm aware, this is not Parliament; this is a committee. I've been sitting on committees since October. I've talked to my colleagues, and no chair, including the chair of the finance committee, has ever asked me to address a question through the chair. So with the greatest of respect, unless this is in fact Parliament, which I'm told it's not and the Parliament voted that it's not, we really should be able to address the witnesses directly, should we not?",
"speaker": "Mr. Marty Morantz"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Morantz. This really is a question around the way in which this special committee on COVID-19 has been structured. We're operating under the rules that were agreed to by the House in an order that was passed and adopted on Tuesday of this week, so we're bound to manage the affairs of this committee in that way, and one of those includes asking members to address their comments and questions through the chair to other hon. members. So I ask you to abide by the rules of the committee, and we'll pursue that. Now we'll go to the response to your second question. The honourable minister has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I must thank the officials who have done excellent work during this historic COVID-19 period. I must tell you that CRA call centres are an essential service and the agency is able to answer calls quickly. The employees are answering calls from their homes.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "Some of my colleagues have spoken to the CRA about drop-off boxes for paper returns actually being removed at some locations, citing COVID-19 as a reason. Has the CRA removed these boxes at all locations? Given this, will you commit today to make paper filing postage-free, since paper filers can no longer drop off their returns at all of the locations?",
"speaker": "Mr. Marty Morantz"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I thank my colleague for that important question. At the CRA, we continue to process paper returns and to do the work that we usually do. I repeat, I must highlight the exceptional work that the agency employees are doing.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "On the subject of paper returns, there have been numerous reportsin fact I asked you on May 10 for a written response at the government operations committee, OGGO, which I have not yet receivedon the delays in processing paper returns. Apparently this is still ongoing. When will Canadians who filed paper forms have their returns processed so they can get the refunds they need during this difficult time?",
"speaker": "Mr. Marty Morantz"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I can confirm that the Canada Revenue Agency continues to process paper returns. Because of COVID-19, we have had to implement distancing measures to protect the employees. We must ensure that employees are safe, but we continue to process paper returns.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Morantz, you have about 45 seconds left. Go ahead with your question.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
},
{
"content": "Sure, Mr. Chair. During this crisis, the problem of illegal tax evasion and avoidance has been highlighted. The minister has been the minister since 2015 and should be able to answer this question off the top of her head. How many successful prosecutions have there been in Canada for the illegal use of tax havens?",
"speaker": "Mr. Marty Morantz"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, as we have said, one of our government's priorities was to invest almost $1billion to establish a system intended to fight tax evasion. That was not at all a priority under the Conservatives. We continue to do that important work for taxpayers; everyone must pay their fair share.",
"speaker": "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier"
},
{
"content": "That concludes the 13thmeeting of the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Speaker Rota asked me to remind all honourable members that during the next meeting, which will be next Monday, we'll be watching more carefully the time for members' statements. We're allowed one minute. We ask members who are providing those by virtual conference to time their statements to within one minute, as he will start to cut off members who go beyond the one minute. With that, this committee stands adjourned until Monday at noon. Enjoy the weekend.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton)"
}
] |
covid_8 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"70"
]
],
"topic": "Members from different areas in Canada talked about their petitions about social issues during the COVID-19"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"71",
"87"
]
],
"topic": "Debates on the governmental issue of allocating the fund and dealing with systematic racism"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"88",
"121"
]
],
"topic": "The uncertainty of Canadian economy and what the government should do during the special period"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"122",
"138"
]
],
"topic": "Measures to guarantee social stability, including reducing the rent for those individual businesses and strictly restraining the weapon"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"139",
"168"
]
],
"topic": "Cooperation and negotiation with Britain and America to push on their international trade"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"169",
"190"
]
],
"topic": "Inquires towards Service Canada and their cooperation with Quebec"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"191",
"203"
]
],
"topic": "Childcare issue and working assurance during the outbreak of the pandemic"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"204",
"313"
]
],
"topic": "Scattered trivial problems of environmental protection, the military management, and the infrastructure investment"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting was about the potential consequences of the COVID-19 in Canada. The members put forward several petitions to ask for further attention for the people in need, say, the children, the workers who would suffer unemployment, and the creators who made a living on artworks, and also many other stakeholders from all walks of life, trying to ensure the life quality of their people during such a harsh time. Some of the group members mentioned some social problems, including the economic depression, racial discrimination, social security, and the environmental pollution,to call for a maintenance of the wealthy and healthy community in Canada. Through the discussion, it could be found that fortunately, some of the problems had been dealt with extra funds and cooperation with other related organizations.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "When it comes to the governmental issues, some of the members, for example, Justin Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh had a heated debate over the way of the distribution of the fund. The root of their debate was the problem of systematic racism in the RCMP, and many other institutions at home. Therefore, a revolution might be needed in those institutions. In terms of the revolution, Jagmeet Singh pointed out that the governmental fund should be allocated to medical care instead of RCMP, for that during the outbreak of COVID-19, emergent needs had shown in the medical field.",
"query": "Summarize the debates on the governmental issue of allocating the fund and dealing with the systematic racism.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"71",
"87"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When talking about the issue of allocating the governmental fund, Yves-Fran questioned why their prime minister at present was acting like something between a prime minister with a majority and a monarch by divine right, he further pointed out that the government was meant to use the $14 million fund to interfere with the political affair of Quebec. But according to Justin Trudeau, the $14 million fund would actually be used to guarantee their people's safety during the pandemic outbreak.",
"query": "What did JustinTrudeau elaborate on the governmental fund when discussing the issue of allocating the fund and dealing with systematic racism?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"71",
"75"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When discussing the governmental issue of dealing with systematic racism, Justin Trudeau mentioned that actually there had been serious systematic racism in most national institutions for the past two years, so he called for a revolution in those organizations to welcome equal cooperation with the black colleagues and indigenous communities. One of those institutions, RCMP, had another problem of the inappropriate fund allocation. According to Justin Trudeau, during the outbreak of the pandemic, the fund should be paid to the medical system but not the policing work.",
"query": "What did JustinTrudeau think of the revolution in those national institutions when talking about the governmental issue of allocating the fund and dealing with systematic racism?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"77",
"87"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Justin Trudeau was confident about the economic recovery after the pandemic, however, Cathy McLeod and Mona Fortier and some other members did not agree with him for that they thought Canada was undergoing an extreme uncertain time during which no one could foresee a bright future unless the prime minister kept the revenue report public. Furthermore, statistics showed that actually Canada had suffered decline in revenue in both the first and second season this year, and the forestry industry even reported depression before the outbreak. Various evidence showed a great challenge to the Canadian economy.",
"query": "What did the group talk about the uncertainty of Canadian economy and what the government should do during the special period?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"88",
"121"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When talking about the uncertainty of Canadian economy and what the government should do, Cathy McLeod mentioned that the forestry industry even suffered depression before the outbreak of the COVID-19. The plants closed, and thousands of workers were unemployed. Meanwhile, both the art industry and fishery industry had received support from the government. Therefore, Cathy McLeod asked for more attention to the forestry to help them go through the difficulty. In response to her petition, ministers said that they did consider a lot of the solutions, including further investment and industrial revolution.",
"query": "What did Cathy McLeod think of the forestry industry when talking about the uncertainty of Canadian economy and what the government should do during the special period?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"99",
"102"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Since many members called for more governmental support for their respective industry, MonaFortier, as the Minister of Middle-Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance responded that Canadian government had financially supported more than 2.5 million jobs with wage subsidy. In addition, she promised to lay stress on supporting the industry, the workers, and all the Canadians in their next working phase, as well as keeping the revenue report updated and public.",
"query": "What did Mona Fortier think of the governmental support when discussing the uncertainty of Canadian economy?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"103",
"112"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The group mentioned that during the pandemic, countless individual businesses reported bankruptcy, which would do harm to social stability. Therefore, according to Mona Fortier, Canadian government had tried a lot to support them. However, not so many people were willing to accept the rent reduction, indicating that the policy might not be very effective. Another problem related to social safety was the handgun smuggling. Bill Blair, the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, in response to the firearms seizure issue, promised to implement a stronger gun control in the near future.",
"query": "Summarize the measures to guarantee social stability, including reducing the rent for those individual businesses and strictly restraining the weapon.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"122",
"138"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The government said that they had carried out a plan of reducing the rent for those individual business to go through the harsh time of the pandemic, however, as Bob Saroya pointed out, not so many people were willing to accept the little fund from the government, which made the plan not effective at all. Mona Fortier, in response to him, promised to follow up and monitor those businessmen and lords, as well as pay more attention to their CMHC support program.",
"query": "Why did Bob Saroya disagree with the government when talking about reducing the rent for those individual businesses?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"125",
"130"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Bill Blair, gun violence in any of the communities was unacceptable, and it was important that governments and communities took steps to prevent guns from getting into the hands of criminals, especially during the special period of the pandemic outbreak. In terms of the gun smuggling, he also said that in order to thoroughly ban the violence, they had to keep an extremely strong attitude and carry out strict laws over the gun issue.",
"query": "What did Bill Blair respond to the firearms seizure issue at Pearson airport when talking about the measures to guarantee social stability?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"134",
"138"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As John Williamson, the member from New Brunswick Southwest mentioned, what Service Canada had done was far from enough. Service Canada should be responsible for helping their people to adjust to the post-pandemic situation more quickly and recovering the national economy. The government members tried to persuade him that the government was doing a lot to make the revenue condition clear to the public, and their support fund was already prepared. Also in terms of the support fund, Bergeron went on to ask for a closer cooperation between Canadian government and Quebec to guarantee the regional development and stability during the pandemic.",
"query": "Summarize the inquiries towards Service Canada and their cooperation with Quebec.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"169",
"190"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Since there was a lot of absence in public service during the pandemic outbreak, John Williamson thought the Service Canada should be to blame for their irresponsibility. Mona Fortier justified themselves by illustrating that the government was always supporting the families, the industries, and the workers by offering support funds. However, what the public would like to see was complete and exact statistics of the financial support from the government, but not always claiming that \"they were doing hard\".",
"query": "Why did John Williamson disagree with the government when putting forward inquiries towards Service Canada?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"169",
"181"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When it comes to the cooperation between two levels of government, Bergeron said that Canadian government once promised to offer $14 million to support Quebec and other provinces to go through the difficulty, but only in targeted transfers. Notwithstanding how promising it seemed, under the current situation, what they needed might be an unconditional transfer, especially towards the medical care system. Under the pressure of the people, the government had to reconsider their cooperation of the armed forces in the CHSLDs, as well as their support for Quebeckers.",
"query": "What did Bergeron think of the cooperation between two levels of government when discussing the inquiries towards Service Canada and their cooperation with Quebec?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"182",
"190"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 23rd meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. A reminder to all members that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connected to the video conference. For those of you who are joining via video conference, I will remind you that when speaking you should be on the same channel as the language you are speaking, and please use your headsets. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. As I understand, there are no ministerial announcements today. We will now proceed to presenting petitions. I remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of this special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, I ask that they please come and drop their signed certificates off at the table once the petition is presented. I would ask members to be very brief and concise, and to summarize the exact content of the petition. We will continue. The first person presenting a petition today is Ms. May.",
"speaker": "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.))"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I present two petitions this morning. The residents of SaanichGulf Islands are calling on the government to simplify the process for protection of marine protected areas. It's a multi-layered communication process. The marine protected area first proposed in the 1970s for the southern Strait of Georgia, now called the Salish Sea, has been awaiting designation for so long that it was originally endorsed by Jacques Cousteau. That gives us a sense for why petitioners are calling for a simplified and more rapid process. The second petition is from petitioners who are very concerned about our obligations under the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and our commitments under the Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action. They specifically reference the RCMP violation of UNDRIP in its actions on Wet'suwet'en territory and ask the government to commit to actually living the principles embodied in UNDRIP.",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP)"
},
{
"content": "We will now go to Mr. Hardie.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am presenting a petition on behalf of the one in a million Canadians who suffer severe and adverse effects from vaccinations. GuillainBarre syndrome is very debilitating, and this petition seeks the setting up of a no-fault accident or compensation system to help offset the loss of work, the loss of wages and the loss of quality of life that many of these people suffer. I'm pleased to present this petition pursuant to Standing Order 36.",
"speaker": "Mr. Ken Hardie (FleetwoodPort Kells, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Trudel, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, culture is the soul of a people. Over the past 20years or so, culture, especially music, has never been as accessible as it is now. Paradoxically, creators' incomes have never been so low. The advent of digital technology has completely overturned the system for distributing the wealth generated by creators for the benefit of various Web stakeholders, many of whom are billionaires. This petition addresses these problems and proposes realistic solutions. The first is to set a minimum royalty model for streaming platforms for artists. The second is to update the existing private copying system. The third is for Internet and cell phone providers who sell their services as direct access to culture to share their profits with artists. The fourth is that the GAFAMs have to pay taxes on their services. Six thousand people have already signed the first version of this petition, launched last month by musician JordanOfficer and supported by singer BarbaraSecours. As an artist, I am proud to present this petition today because the issues it raises are fundamental to the survival of Quebec culture.",
"speaker": "Mr. Denis Trudel (LongueuilSaint-Hubert, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Mr. Genuis.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I have four petitions to present today. I will be as brief as you suggested, although I will observe that if some members are going on longer during petitions than they normally do, it might be because the government has taken away so many of the tools that opposition members normally have for raising important issues in the House. The first petition deals with the issue of euthanasia and long-term care. The petitioners are concerned that instead of focusing on improving medically assisted life, something that we know is a major issue in light of recent revelations, the government has put so much time and legislative energy into efforts to continually further expand euthanasia in Canada and remove vital safeguards. The second petition speaks to the ongoing conversations happening in Canada around systemic discrimination and systemic racism. I think we do need to reflect on systemic discrimination. This petition deals specifically with Bill 21 in Quebec and raises concerns. The reality of the way that bill applies is that people from certain backgrounds who wish to practise their faith are not able to fully participate in Canadian society if they are employed in the public service. This petition asks the government to provide a response on that issue, something it hasn't done in response to past petitions on this. The third petition deals with the issue of firearms. The petitioners want to see the government take a strong response in dealing with illegal guns and gun smuggling. The petition notes that the vast majority of firearms-related crimes in Canada involves illegal guns. At the same time, the petitioners are concerned that the government has the wrong focusthat is, harassing law-abiding firearms ownerswithout putting in place substantial measures to deal with illegal guns. The petitioners want to see the reversal of the order in council from May 1 and strong measures to deal with illegal firearms. The fourth and final petition deals with Bill S-204, a bill that would make it a criminal offence for a Canadian to go abroad and receive an organ from a person who has not consented to giving that organ. It would also create a mechanism by which someone could be deemed inadmissible to Canada if they were involved in organ harvesting and trafficking. The petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204 and of similar bills in previous parliaments and would like to see us pass that bill as soon as possible.",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Presenting petitions, Mr. Lamoureux.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is with pleasure that I table another petition by the residents of Winnipeg North. These residents have signed a petition asking the Government of Canada, and in fact all members of Parliament, to put a high priority on assisting our poorest seniors. The increases to the GIS by $200, and $300 to the OAS, have been well received. They just want to highlight how important it is to support our seniors, in particular the poorest of our seniors.",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "For members present in the Chamber, a reminder that they are asked to bring their petitions to the table. We'll now proceed to statements by members. We'll go to Ms. Atwin for the first one.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. June 21 is National Indigenous Peoples Day, a day of acknowledgement and a day of celebration of the beautiful diversity of indigenous peoples across Turtle Island. I wish to recognize the leadership of Chief Shelley Sabattis of the Welamukotuk First Nation in Oromocto, New Brunswick. Each year she and her council, volunteers and staff go above and beyond to show appreciation for their members and to demonstrate pride and culture while promoting well-being. We gather in an event where all are welcome to take part, from traditional hand drum-making with elders to moose meat and tacos. This year we will celebrate a bit differently, but we will still stay connected, virtually and in spirit, to the vast network of indigenous peoples and allies. We need each other now more than ever. May we come together in song and stories and in solidarity. We will remember those who are not among us. I hope all of Canada will join us in observing National Indigenous Peoples Day. Mawiyapasuwok: let us come together. Nit liech.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Fredericton, GP)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Beech.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, COVID-19 is an unprecedented challenge for all communities across Canada, but as we do our part to flatten the curve, I often think about those who suit up every morning to serve on the front lines of our health care system. My mother is a home care worker and my sister is a nurse. Even before the crisis, they would often share the hardships they faced on a day-to-day basis. It's a tough job at the best of times. In a pandemic, these jobs are life-threatening. I think we can all agree that these workers deserve more than our good wishes. They deserve a raise. That is why we have worked with the provinces to implement pandemic pay. In British Columbia more than 250,000 front-line workers are eligible for this program. That works out to a pay increase of about $4 an hour. It's a small show of our appreciation for their difficult and priceless contribution to our country. Share this message and say thanks to our front-line workers, participate in the 7 p.m. cheer, and order a pizza for your local nurses. It's the least we can do.",
"speaker": "Mr. Terry Beech (Burnaby NorthSeymour, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go on to Mr. Shipley.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. We've been living in difficult times. Slowly, we are getting back to some resemblance of normalcy, although unfortunately not soon enough for some of our great summer festivals. It will not be normal in BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte this summer without the iconic Boots and Hearts weekend music festival, Kempenfest, Oro World's Fair, the Elmvale Fall Fair, or the Midhurst Autumnfest. Canada Day celebrations have been cancelled, but we can still celebrate the great nation we call home. Because of the lack of Canada Day celebrations, I've created Happy Canada Day lawn signs that are available through my constituency office, free to all residents of BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte. I'm also hosting a drive-through party on Canada Day at the Royal Canadian Legion on St. Vincent Street in Barrie. All are welcome to attend. There will be cupcakes for all. Please drop by the legion between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m., and we can celebrate Canada Day safely together. Thank you and have a great summer.",
"speaker": "Mr. Doug Shipley (BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Now we'll go on to Ms. Young.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Among the countless ordinary Canadians who have stepped up to do extraordinary work during COVID-19, I wish to draw attention to our teachers. Teachers have always had a special place in my heart. My father was a teacher, and my daughter-in-law, Kelly Webb, is one now. I'm certain that my colleagues can all easily remember a teacher in their past who played an important role in helping them achieve their potential. I remember my grade 12 English teacher, Vince Weaver, at Westminster Secondary School in London. He made me realize that I could do so much more than I believed. Across the country, as schools closed, teachers did not stop their work. Some took their classes online. Others found innovative ways to continue engaging with their students. This is not the school year anyone imagined, and what the next one will look like is unclear, but our teachers in London West and across Canada have shown that no matter what, they will be there to help our next generation shine.",
"speaker": "Ms. Kate Young (London West, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Before proceeding to the next presenter, I just want to remind the honourable members in the chamber that I realize that the six-foot limit makes it harder to whisper to each other, but we're hearing a bit of rumble, so I just want you to try to whisper at your best. Mr.Bergeron, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, on July1st, we will be celebrating one of the most important events for the riding of Montarville: the 175thanniversary of the city of Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville. The theme Proud of our traditions will be the focus of this celebration for the people of Montarville. This is a good illustration of the rich history of this municipality nestled in the western foothills of Mont-Saint-Bruno. The seigneury of Montarville was granted in1710 to the illustrious former governor of Trois-Rivires, PierreBoucher. The parish of Saint-Bruno, which took root there and in which a village grew, became a municipal corporation in1845. To this day, it is one of the most prosperous localities, with a strong sense of belonging, a very dynamic community life and jealously preserved natural environments. A whole program had been drawn up for the celebration, but the current health crisis has taken over some of the planned activities, which has in no way diminished the pride and festive spirit of the people of Montarville. On July1st, we will have a good reason to be proud, in spite of everything. Happy 175thanniversary to Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville.",
"speaker": "Mr. Stphane Bergeron (Montarville, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Mr. Maloney.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a moment to highlight an initiative that I started early on during the COVID-19 pandemic. The Heroes of EtobicokeLakeshore is an opportunity for citizens in my riding to recognize the contributions of those in their community who make life a bit easier. I'm pleased with the number of nominations I received that honour everyone from front-line workers to businesses that are innovating in these difficult times to volunteers who are finding new ways to reach out. I think of Daniel Lauzon who set up Food for Now, a mobile service that helps take care of the homeless. I think of Toni Varone, who helped his business clients by forgiving their rents, or young Lucas, who wanted to thank his teachers. I've been moved and inspired by the countless stories of generosity, strength, resiliency, kindness, incredible character and creativity. I want to thank all the heroes, as well as the people who nominated them. Keep them coming. Stay safe, everyone, and I wish you happy Canada Day early.",
"speaker": "Mr. James Maloney (EtobicokeLakeshore, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now move on to Ms. Wong.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it gives me great pleasure to thank a local Richmond-based charity, the Social Diversity for Children Foundation, SDC, for its hard work both in raising funds for the purchase of personal protective equipment and in distributing this PPE to long-term care facilities and individual seniors' homes in the lower mainland of B.C. The COVID-19 relief fund is supported by a dozen other non-profits, businesses and community groups. Over the past two months, SDC has been to 32 seniors homes and senior-related organizations. In total, it has delivered masks to 7,000 care workers, staff and seniors. It is amazing to have witnessed how the younger generation have gotten involved in caring for the elderly at this very challenging time.",
"speaker": "Hon. Alice Wong (Richmond Centre, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Ms. Damoff.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, June is ALS Awareness Month, and 79 years after Lou Gehrig died from ALS little has changed. There's still no cure, and those with ALS typically die within five years of diagnosis. On June 21, Canadians will gather virtually to raise funds for ALS Canada in the Walk to End ALS. In Halton, normally we meet each year at Bronte Creek Provincial Park on the May long weekend to raise funds for ALS Canada. This year I will virtually join Tim's Titans, a team formed to honour Tim Robertson, my friend who died in 2016 after living with ALS for 13 years. I have a T-shirt, with a picture of Lou Gehrig, that says, Great Player...Lousy Disease and Tim's Titans...Great Team! ALS...Still a Lousy Disease. Join me on June 21 for the virtual Walk to End ALS to raise funds to support patients and their families and for ALS research.",
"speaker": "Ms. Pam Damoff (Oakville NorthBurlington, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Ms. Khera.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, on Saturday our community stood and marched in solidarity against anti-black racism. The peaceful protests that we're seeing across the country and around the world were not triggered by an isolated incident. They are fuelled by decades of ineffective action against something that is so insidious and deeply entrenched in our history, systems and institutions. For us, that is the racial inequality faced by Canada's indigenous and black communities. Anti-black racism is real. It exists right here in Canada, in our communities, including in Brampton. It exists when racialized students at McCrimmon Middle School are called McCriminals. It exists when a shocking report exposes the Peel District School Board's failure to work fairly with the black community. It exists when D'Andre Campbell, who was fighting mental illness, loses his life at the hands of the police. It is clear that we need reform. We need to dismantle the systems that allow this privilege and oppression to take form, and address the unconscious bias plaguing our institutions. We'll need to be bold, and the time to do that is now.",
"speaker": "Ms. Kamal Khera (Brampton West, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Lloyd.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, a few months ago I rose in the House on the eve of our closure due to COVID-19. I told Canadians we must not give in to fear, that we would carry on and get through this crisis stronger than ever. Today, in this city and across Canada, Canadians are enjoying a beer on their favourite patios. Businesses are reopening, jobs are returning and our lives are starting to feel a bit normal again. Canadians pulled together, and because of that we did not see the devastating death toll that many had predicted. Life may be returning to normal, but unfortunately, here in this chamber of democracy, the people's voices continue to be shut down. There is no good reason for Parliament to be suspended today. In the words of my grandfather, it's time for the Liberals to get with the program and bring back the House.",
"speaker": "Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We will now proceed with Ms. Jones.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, from in-person learning to virtual classrooms, COVID-19 has drastically changed the lives of students across the country, especially those in post-secondary education who are worried about covering costs like tuition or rent this coming fall. Our government recognized that students should not have to worry or put their futures on pause during this difficult time. That's why last month the federal government introduced the Canada emergency student benefit. If you're a high school student headed to a post-secondary school, or a current post-secondary student or a recent graduate, you can receive the Canada emergency student benefit every four weeks and have the financial support that you need to save for school. We also doubled Canada student grants and loans, enhanced the student loan program, increased supports for indigenous post-secondary education and introduced the Canada student service grant for those who wish to pursue it. Our government is here to help all students get the support they need to pursue their future goals successfully. I wish them all the very best, and I wish all of you, my colleagues and those across Canada, a very happy National Indigenous Peoples Day, which is coming up on June 21.",
"speaker": "Ms. Yvonne Jones (Labrador, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "I want to remind the honourable members to keep to their 60 seconds so that we don't go over the time. I'm sure it would be a lot easier for everyone if we stuck to that limit. We will now go to Mr. Aitchison.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I rise today to once again implore the government to do something about the horrible lack of access to and crazy cost of rural Internet service. Right now, too many areas of my riding have no access to rural Internet service at all, and those who can get service are paying through the nose. I've even heard constituents say that during this pandemic, they are having to choose between feeding their kids and educating them. Over the last few weeks, Conservatives have been consulting with rural Canadians, and the results are in. My constituents are tired of fancy political promises. They are frustrated beyond belief by the new challenges created by this pandemic. They are absolutely fed up with having their pleas ignored. All we want is affordable and reliable Internet service. Is that too much to ask of the government?",
"speaker": "Mr. Scott Aitchison (Parry SoundMuskoka, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. MacGregor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, these last few months have been incredibly challenging for the residents of CowichanMalahatLangford, who have been forced to deal with the economic and social consequences of COVID-19. The pandemic has laid bare the inadequacies of our social safety net, the weakness in our supply chains and the dependence of our society on essential workers, who often work long hours for low wages, putting themselves and their families at risk. We've also been forced to confront the systemic inequality, poverty and racism that continue to hold so many people back from achieving their full potential. I will not dishonour the sacrifice that so many have made during this time by allowing us to go back to the status quo that got us here in the first place. I will not apologize for demanding that the most vulnerable in our society get the supports and opportunities they need to live with dignity, and I will not relent from pushing my political colleagues to summon the courage necessary to implement policies that lead to environmental, economic and social justice.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alistair MacGregor (CowichanMalahatLangford, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "I now give the floor to Mr.Blaney.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, here is a beautiful story, the story of a woman from Bellechasse, a courageous young mother from Saint-Malachie, Marie-ChristineGoupil. With three children, including the eldest daughter with a disability, and realizing that her daughter with a disability had special clothing needs, she decided to go into business to meet the needs of other parents who, like her, were facing their child's clothing challenges. Last week, she presented her Handy clothing collection on the show Dans l'il du dragon. It was a very emotional moment for the audience and the dragons. They were so touched that they decided to give her the amount she wanted without diluting her shares. The video of her presentation has already been viewed over 1million times on social networks. Marie-ChristineGoupil has discovered a passion for entrepreneurship and has moved and inspired many people with her passionate and courageous attitude. Congratulations, Ms.Goupil, your example makes us proud.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Blanchet, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr.Chair. I lend my voice to the Chief of the Assembly of First Nations of Quebec-Labrador, GhislainPicard, whose message is as follows: There have been no fewer than 14reports and conclusions of commissions of inquiry since1967 highlighting major problems in relations between law enforcement agencies and indigenous people. Each time, the conclusions have been overwhelming and highlight a disturbing reality. The justice system has failed indigenous people. Are you going to respond, as you too often do, by moving on to the next one, or are you going to do what we expect you to do, which is to recognize that the justice system discriminates against indigenous people and that we have no less right to security than the rest of the population? In three months, police interventions have claimed more victims among our members than the pandemic. But it is not enough to simply take a knee and denounce racism. It's about standing up and taking action. Those are the words of GhislainPicard.",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now continue with Ms. Harder.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Over the last few months, Canada's democracy has been disregarded and an autocracy has been resurrected in its place. By refusing to hold regular parliamentary sittings, Mr. Trudeau is sending a strong message to the Canadian public that he alone is the one who matters. In 2014, he professed that Canadians want their Members of Parliament to be effective voices for their communities in Ottawa, and not merely mouthpieces for an all-too-powerful Prime Minister. As it stands, however, he has shut down Parliament. Effectively, he has stripped us, the opposition, of our privileges and our powers. Sadly, Mr. Trudeau has become the all-too-powerful Prime Minister that he once warned against. A government that does not allow for effective opposition is not functioning in the best interest of Canadians; it is operating in the best interest of itself and, even more so, the interest of the Prime Minister. Canadians deserve to flourish in a democracy, not merely survive under the autocracy that this Prime Minister has created.",
"speaker": "Ms. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go on to Ms. Zahid.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I would like to recognize the work of Agincourt Community Services Association and its tireless executive director, Lee Soda, who have been serving our community during the COVID-19 pandemic. Under more pressure than ever, their staff and volunteers continue to serve a community whose need was great even before the crisis. Their food bank helps over 4,000 people weekly. They have opened outdoor washrooms and hand-washing stations for vulnerable communities and are delivering groceries and other essentials to vulnerable seniors. ACSA is a bridge between those who can help and those who need help, and they are just one example of how our community has come together to meet this challenge. There are restaurants and businesses donating meals to front-line workers, residents answering the call to stock the food bank shelves and neighbours looking in on the vulnerable and isolated. I am so proud of our community's spirit. Scarborough is strong.",
"speaker": "Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings twice in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, for months Conservatives have been pointing out flaws in Liberal government programs that are preventing Canadians from getting the help they need. The Prime Minister has refused to make these very technical changes to get more help to Canadians who need it. For example, on the wage subsidy, more than two-thirds of the money allocated for that program has lapsed because businesses don't qualify. I have a simple question. Will the Prime Minister change the program to allow companies who have made acquisitions to access the wage subsidy to keep more people working?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, from the very beginning we knew that as we rolled out measures, we would need to improve them and tweak them, and that's exactly what we've been doing over the past three months. We needed to make measures happen quickly for Canadians, and we did that. But we continued to improve them, to make additions and amendments so that more people could get the help they needed, including with the proposed legislation last week that expanded the reach of the wage subsidy to more businesses. Unfortunately, the Conservatives didn't even want us to debate that particular piece of legislation.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Papineau, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Actually, Mr. Chair, it was the Liberals who said no to the motion to allow this Parliament to sit to debate that motion, and even in that legislation they refused to allow businesses who have made acquisitions to access the program. Now, when we look at the rent relief program, it is so difficult to apply for it that many landlords are refusing to bother, leaving even more small businesses to fall through the cracks. In fact, of the $3 billion allocated to the rent relief program, only $39 million has been paid out. That's less than 2%. Now, the Prime Minister is still using talking points from April. It's now June and he has refused to fix these programs and has successfully talked out the calendar on the days that the House of Commons could meet to discuss these programs. When will he make these changes to get more help to Canadians who need it?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, throughout this pandemic, we have constantly been updating and expanding our various programs. We recognize, in conversations with the premiers, how important it is to make sure that we're working together, the provinces and the federal government, on issues like rent subsidies where commercial rent is indeed a provincial jurisdiction. Many provinces have moved forward with the eviction bans that are necessary to go along with this, and we'll continue to work with provinces to make sure that we're getting Canadians the help they need.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Canadians cannot wait. He has run down the clock on parliamentary sittings and he still refuses to make these changes to get more help to Canadians. Today, we learned that Telus has installed Huawei technology in downtown Ottawa. There are over 80 sites across the national capital region with Huawei technology installed. Some of these sites are very near sensitive government institutions, like government departments, the National Research Council, RCMP headquarters and the Bank of Canada. How long has the Prime Minister known that Huawei technology has been installed in the Ottawa area?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, first off, on the issue of Parliament, it has been meeting four times a week over the past many weeks, and members of the opposition have been able to continue to ask questions on COVID-19 and a broad range of subjects. Moreover, every two weeks the finance department puts forward at the finance committee the full transparent measures that we've taken, so that parliamentarians can study them. We are continuing to work in this crisis. At the same time",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Answer the question. The Chair: I'm sorry?",
"speaker": "Mr. Ziad Aboultaif (Edmonton Manning, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "in regard to Huawei technology there are strict rules for companies to follow and we assume they will all follow those.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll pause for a second and stop the clock. I want to remind the honourable members who are joining us virtually that heckling really does disrupt the whole session. Your face does come up and we do see who it is, so I just want to make sure that you're aware of that. Now we'll go back to Mr. Scheer. We have a minute and 10 seconds left.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister is bragging about accountability and transparency. Will he table an economic update before the House rises?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, throughout this unprecedented pandemic, we have been open and transparent about all of the measures we've put forward. We've updated the finance committee",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Scheer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "That's a long way of saying no, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister has pursued a policy of appeasement in pursuit of a personal vanity product at the UN. In the process, he's cozied up to dictators and human rights violators. He's abandoned Israel and committed funding to UNRWA, an organization whose schools have been used as storage facilities for Hamas rockets against Israeli civilians, and whose facilities have served as breeding grounds for racism and anti-Semitism. He has apologized for the Iranian regime when it shot down a plane full of Canadian citizens, and he refuses to list the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terrorist entity. What's the point of having a seat at the table if you have to sell out Canadian principles to get there?",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "The Right Honourable Prime Minister.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we see that the Conservatives have kept with the Harper approach to international diplomacy. The failed presence of Canada on the world stage was an embarrassment for many Canadians for many years. That's why, when we took office five years ago, we demonstrated the kind of leadership on values that Canadians expected. We will continue to work around the world to defend multilateralism.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We have a point of order. Ms. May.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "This being a committee, we can have a point of order during what would have been question period. I am not sitting that far away from the Prime Minister, and I'm sorry, but Andrew Scheer used to be the Speaker of the House and should show better decorum.",
"speaker": "Ms. Elizabeth May"
},
{
"content": "We have a point of order from Mr. Genuis.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, on the same point of order, it is disgusting for the leader of the Green Party to use decorum as an excuse to interrupt the Leader of the Opposition in the middle of critical lines of questioning. The leader of the Green Party knows the rules of the House and shouldn't be abusing them to advance a partisan agenda.",
"speaker": "Mr. Garnett Genuis"
},
{
"content": "We're getting into debate. I do want to point out that the time had run out. We're now moving on to the next line of questions. On a point of order, Mr. Scheer.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "I appreciate the honourable leader of the Green Party, Elizabeth May, for that reminder. When I was Speaker I always appreciated her help and advice about how to improve decorum in here. I just want to say to the member, and to all members, that the reason that I cannot control myself is that the Prime Minister used the word embarrassment in answering a foreign affairs question, and it just made me think of the India trip.",
"speaker": "Hon. Andrew Scheer"
},
{
"content": "I believe we're getting into debate and arguments. Mr.Blanchet, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, while the Greens and the Conservatives are saying that they'll be waiting outside after the meeting, I will ask a question. The Prime Minister has extended the Canada emergency response benefit, and that's good news, but it's not enough. Last week in the House, the government said it was urgent to fight fraud. For us, it was also urgent to adjust the CERB to the needs of the tourism, arts and agriculture sectors. Farmers are going to be seriously under-resourced. So what happened to the urgency of reforming the CERB? Why is the government refusing to talk to the opposition parties?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I am very pleased to hear the hon. member finally align himself with the positions of the Liberal Party. Unfortunately, the Bloc is a week late. It should have let us debate these concerns in the House last week.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "It seems to me that the word alignment here is a fantasy. We have unequivocally proposed to extend the debate to reach an agreement, which brings me to my second question. Last week, the issue of assistance to people with disabilities was also a pressing concern, and it's even more so a week later. The Bloc proposed to extend the discussions and split the government's bill in two to help people with disabilities. Why is the government refusing this assistance to people with disabilities, when it could have been debated with the opposition in a civilized and proper way in a Parliament in which it has a minority?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "That was exactly what we wanted, but unanimous consent of the Chamber was required to debate this matter, and the Conservative Party of Canada voted against it. Unfortunately, we are going to have to find a different way to help people with disabilities.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "If the idea is so good and wonderful, why not start over and open the dialogue now? What's stopping the Prime Minister from being a rallying point and inviting us to take to each other and resolve the problem, rather than saying that he is going to pack up his toys and go home? The people with disabilities are the ones who will pay the price. Where was the Prime Minister on October21,2019? He received a minority mandate from Quebeckers and Canadians. Why is he behaving like something between a prime minister with a majority and a monarch by divine right?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "I've heard the Conservative Party and the Bloc Qubcois throw their accusations around. They don't point out that the House of Commons did indeed give its consent to extend the mandate of the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic until the end of June. Three parties agreed, which was the right thing to do in the context of this minority government. We've been working with the other parties. However, as they did not get the results they wanted, they complained. Unfortunately, they too are part of a minority Parliament and must respect the voice of the majority of parliamentarians, just as we do.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "I might have been tempted, but that's unlikely to happen because the Prime Minister isn't me, he's him. It's therefore up to him to bring people together, open a dialogue and recall Parliament. All we were asking for was the opportunity to talk for an hour or two. However, suddenly he doesn't want to play anymore. It's not working anymore, and there's something a bit strange about that. In addition, the government wants to buy the right to interfere in provincial and Quebec jurisdictions for $14billion. However, Quebec and a number of provinces are refusing to allow it to interfere in their jurisdictions and are asking that this money be paid to them unconditionally. Is the Prime Minister trying to take advantage of the crisis or is he trying to create a constitutional crisis?",
"speaker": "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, the safety of Canadians is the responsibility of all levels of government. That's why we have proposed a $14billion agreement to ensure that all Canadians across the country experience a safe re-opening of the economy. This is a proposal that we are working on with the provinces because we know that there are needs across the country, including early childhood centres, screening and support for municipalities. The federal government wants to be there to help the provinces.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr.Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Indigenous leaders have expressed a lack of confidence in the RCMP commissioner's ability to tackle full-scale systemic racism, but the Prime Minister has expressed his confidence in the commissioner. What's that based on?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, over the past two years, Commissioner Lucki has made significant strides forward on an issue where there is still much more to do. We know that systemic racism exists in all of our institutions across this country",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go back to Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "This is the same RCMP commissioner who just recently said that they couldn't explain what systemic racism was. Now the Prime Minister says that he has confidence, when indigenous leaders express their lack of confidence. Why does the Prime Minister believe that the RCMP commissioner can tackle systemic racism in the RCMP?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, systemic racism is something that touches every corner of our country, every corner of our institutions. It requires people to understand and move forward in coordinated ways with partners. The commissioner is committed to doing that, alongside members of our government. We will do that together and work with indigenous communities and black",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, recent events have made it abundantly clear that to tackle the systemic racism at the level of the RCMP, we need a full-scale overhaul of the RCMP. Is the Prime Minister committed to a full-scale overhaul of the RCMP to root out systemic racism?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "As I've said many times, Mr. Chair, I am committed to addressing systemic racism in this country and taking significant, bold actions to reduce the amount of discrimination that indigenous peoples, that racialized Canadians face on a daily basis. We have much work to do, but we will do it together.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Black Lives Matter has been calling for governments to defund the police. What it's saying is that we need to be better at where we spend our money, investing in communities and not policing. Will the Prime Minister commit to a review of the RCMP budget to allocate resources to community services and not to policing?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, over the past years we have been investing more directly and more money in community organizations, in the black community, and working with indigenous partners on the path to reconciliation. We have been investing in the kinds of community-based programs and solutions that are part of the solution. We know there is much more to do, and we will continue to look at all of our expenditures to make sure we're doing the right things.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, over the past few years, while the Prime Minister has been in office, the RCMP budget has increased by 31%. More money is going towards policing. In recent events we've seen people who needed a health care response to a health care crisis been killed by the RCMP. Does the Prime Minister believe that we need to be investing in a health care response instead of a police response for people who are faced with a crisis?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the member opposite well knows that it's not an either-or. We need to make sure that our systems across the board, from our police systems to our judicial systems, to our health care systems, to our community systems, are actually addressing the systemic discrimination issues that are embedded within them That is exactly what we are going to continue to do in the coming years.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, with regard to the CERB extension, can the Prime Minister guarantee that everyone who is receiving CERB payments now will continue to do so without any gaps throughout the summer?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I am happy to highlight that many Canadians who were on the CERB are now returning to work. Many more who are on the CERB now will be returning to work in the coming weeks. We know that as the economy gets back to work, people will want to",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Singh.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Can the Prime Minister assure people who need it that they will continue to receive the CERB over the summer, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Jagmeet Singh"
},
{
"content": "We are very pleased to point out that we are going to extend the Canada emergency response benefit for at least another eight weeks, because a lot of people are going to need it. Even if they want to work, there aren't enough jobs for everyone. So we'll be there for them, as we have been from the beginning.",
"speaker": "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau"
},
{
"content": "We're going to pause and suspend proceedings just for a few moments to allow our support staff to substitute for one another in a healthy and safe way. We'll now proceed with Ms. McLeod.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, it was really a surprise in the middle of a pandemic to see the Prime Minister at his first campaign stop last week in Ottawa. Certainly the game plan has become very transparent. He has a daily report show and he wants to sideline Parliament, dominate the news cycle and keep everyone in the dark about the state of the economy. According to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, there is no reason that he cannot provide the fiscal update during the COVID-19 pandemic, and the PBO has published a number of reports himself. Why won't the Prime Minister provide a fiscal update so we can all understand the state of our economy, or is that just not part of his campaign playbook?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathy McLeod (KamloopsThompsonCariboo, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. Canada's economy is in a period of extraordinary uncertainty due to COVID-19. We've been clear about that. We will continue to be open and transparent about the actions that we are taking to support families, businesses, workers, our health care system and our economy. This includes biweekly reports to Parliament on the full cost and status of our economic measures. Once it is possible to provide a clear economic projection, we will provide an update. We are in this together, and we are prepared to do whatever is necessary to support Canadians.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier (Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance)"
},
{
"content": "Chair, Canada's economy was in trouble prior to the COVID, with some of the worst numbers since 2009. Government revenues in March dropped by 7.2%, and it's shameful and, quite frankly, it's outrageous that they refuse to provide Parliament and Canadians with an economic update. Households during this challenging time know how much money is coming in and they know how much money is going out. The picture is not pretty, but they know what the picture is. Can the finance minister at least reveal the projected revenue decline in quarters one and two?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathy McLeod"
},
{
"content": "The Canadian economy is going through a period of extraordinary uncertainty due to COVID-19. We've known this for three months. We've continued to be open and transparent about the measures we've put in place for Canadians, workers and businesses. In fact, we have reported biweekly to Parliament on the total cost and status of our plan's measures. As soon as it's possible to provide clear economic projections, we will provide a comprehensive update to Canadians",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We go back to Ms. McLeod.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Other governments have managed to provide updates for their citizens and carry out their responsibilities, but of course this government has sidelined Parliament with simply a question-but-no-answer period. Let's try something else. The forestry industry was in crisis even before the pandemic, with mills closing down and thousands of jobs lost. Eight weeks ago, Minister Freeland said, I have had many discussions with leaders in our forestry sector and the provinces about what we can do to support the industry today. Meanwhile, we've had support going to the arts and we've had support going to fisheries, just to name a few, but arguably for the industry that was having some of the most numerous challenges, it has been radio silence. That was eight weeks ago today. Can the government at least commit to releasing an updated softwood lumber transition plan before we rise?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathy McLeod"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we remain committed, of course, to the forestry industry and seeing it through this pandemic and this very uncertain time. The expanding market opportunities program, for instance, has helped Canada's forestry sector diversify, create jobs and open new markets. We've had new construction projects that are active today, using Canadian wood in key markets like Korea, Japan, China and the United States. Tomorrow this House will vote on our government's investment of $20.97 million for this program. It's part of our budget 2019 commitment to invest $251 million over three years, and I hope the opposition will support us in that.",
"speaker": "Hon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Natural Resources)"
},
{
"content": "It was stated in a major newspaper this morning that this government is like a sexy sports carvroom, vroom, vroombut with a history of breakdowns and major repairs. I think that might describe what has been happening. For forestry, it has been eight weeks and there has been nothing. There is another area that Deputy Prime Minister Freeland did talk about. We were talking about the U.S. softwood lumber duties that are being held in the United States. It's billions of dollars being held with the U.S. treasury. In April, she acknowledged that these duties are a real issue for the softwood lumber industry. What's been done since that time?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Cathy McLeod"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, Canada's forestry industry supports good middle-class jobs in communities across our country. The sector is also an essential link in the medical equipment supply chain, and we thank them for all the work they're doing. We're aware of the immense pressures faced by this sector, especially at this time, and Deputy Prime Minister Freeland and others are taking that seriously and working through this issue. As our government has said repeatedly, we firmly believe that the U.S. duties on Canadian softwood lumber are unfair and unwarranted, and we will pursue all means in order to",
"speaker": "Hon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)"
},
{
"content": "Before continuing, I want to remind honourable members who are at home to make sure that the boom on their headsets is down. It just makes a better pickup. We heard everything, but it was a little distant. That's for everyone's benefit. We're now going to continue with Mr.Deltell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, before I ask my question, I'd like to pay tribute to the Minister of Justice, particularly to his versatility. Today, he talked about forests. Yesterday, the Minister of Justice talked about Davie and indigenous affairs. Really, this minister is very versatile. My question is directly for the Minister of Finance. I like Mr.Lametti very much, but I'd like Mr.Morneau to answer my question. Yesterday, in a Senate parliamentary committee, the Minister of Finance half-opened the door to an economic update. Based on what he said, it seems that, as we speak, a committee of the Department of Finance is working on an economic update. Could Mr.Morneau tell Canadians when he is going to table this economic update?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, as we know, the Canadian economy is going through a period of extraordinary uncertainty. As soon as it's possible to provide clear economic projections, we will provide a full update to Canadians. Right now, we can say that we have supported workers, businesses and Canadians with the emergency measures we have put in place. We will continue to do so, because we need to be sure that Canadians can get through this crisis.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I thought it was too good to be true. The Minister of Finance is opening the door, and the Minister of Small Business is closing it. We don't know when the economic update will take place, yet all across Canada, provinces are doing economic updates. Could Mr.Morneau explain to Canadians why he is unable to give one?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, since the beginning of the crisis, we have implemented the economic action plan to respond to COVID-19, and we've provided immediate assistance to Canadians, businesses and workers. Over 2.5million jobs were protected by the Canada emergency wage subsidy. In addition, 8.4million Canadians",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We are returning to Mr.Deltell.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, next Friday, the Quebec minister of finance, EricGirard, will give an economic update. If EricGirard can give one for Quebec, why can't BillMorneau give one for Canada?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, once again, we have been open and transparent from the outset. We have devoted our energy to support Canadians, workers and businesses. We will continue to do so.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I cannot judge the quality of the work done by the provinces, but what I do know is that Quebec, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland have also made efforts to support their residents economically. Those provinces are able to table economic updates. Yesterday, Saskatchewan even tabled a budget. Why is Bill Morneau unable to table an economic update for all Canadians?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "Let me repeat for my hon. colleague that we are going through extraordinarily uncertain times. We have continued to be open and transparent. We have reported biweekly to Parliament on the total cost and status of the measures in our economic response plan. Once again, as soon as clear economic projections can be provided, we will provide an update",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Deltell has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "The minister talks about the total cost of the government's economic expenditures. So I ask the question: so far, over the past three months, how much has the pandemic cost Canadians?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "As I said earlier, it is important to note that we have put forward measures, including the wage subsidy, which have helped more than 2.5million",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Deltell has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, I have been trying for four minutes to get anything remotely resembling an answer, and I'm getting absolutely nothing. I am not asking questions for myself; I am asking questions for Canadians. Why are the government and the Minister of Finance, Bill Morneau, not able to table an economic update when some provinces are able to?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "Once again, I would like to remind my hon. colleague that we have provided interest-free loans to businesses. More than 669,000loans have been approved. We have continued to support businesses and Canadians during this time",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Deltell, you have time for a very brief question.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "The only thing that distinguishes the provinces that table economic updates and the current government is political will. Why does Bill Morneau not have the political will to tell Canadians the truth?",
"speaker": "Mr. Grard Deltell"
},
{
"content": "Once again, we have been open and transparent. As soon as it is possible to provide clear economic projections, we will provide Canadians with a full update.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We will now continue with Mr. Saroya.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. COVID-19 has sparked and spurred anti-Asian racism. These are not just racist comments online; Asian Canadians have been attacked. What is the government doing to combat anti-Asian racism?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bob Saroya (MarkhamUnionville, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, since our government took office in 2015, we have been making investments and working with communities. The difference between our government and the previous government is that we will actually consult with Canadians, including black Canadians, including Asian Canadians, to respond to the challenges, including with an anti-racism secretariat and an anti-racism strategy. It will take all of us. I appreciate the member's question, so that we can also work together.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bardish Chagger (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, one business owner I know in Markham has operated for 20 years. Now she's looking at over $9,000 in rent due on June 24. COVID-19 has crippled her sales and she's going to go out of business. Her landlord has no interest in the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program. How can the government say this program is working?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bob Saroya"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, this program was made possible by working with the provinces, and we will continue to encourage landlords and tenants to work together to make sure they have relief for this very difficult time in which they're living. We're continuing to monitor the CECRA program and we will make it possible for businesses to have access to the program.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the government business rent relief program has been a total disaster. Even the government's own numbers show it is a failure. As of June 8, less than 2% of the $3 billion budgeted has been spent. What is it going to take for the government to admit that the program is a disaster and needs changes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bob Saroya"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we know our government has been working closely with the provinces and territories to deliver the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance. Although the tenant-landlord relationship is ultimately the responsibility of the provinces and territories, our government has stepped up to provide support through the tools we have and through CMHC so that small businesses can get the rent relief they need.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, according to the government, there are around 1.1 million small businesses in Canada. At committee, we were told only around 5,500 of them are receiving COVID-19 rent relief. That number is shameful. When will the Liberal government wake up and make the changes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bob Saroya"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we welcome the steps some provinces and territories have taken to further protect commercial tenants. We will continue to monitor this program closely and ensure that Canada's small businesses are supported during this challenging time. We will continue to monitor to see",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Saroya.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, there was no answer. When can the government make these changes?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bob Saroya"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to assure the honourable colleague that we are doing everything and will continue to do everything to help small businesses in our country.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, on May 27 the CBSA seized 65 small handguns at Pearson airport, the largest firearms seizure on record. It is clear that smuggled handguns are the weapon of choice for criminals. Why is the Prime Minister focusing on an ineffective municipal ban?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bob Saroya"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I would point out that gun violence in any of our communities is unacceptable, and it's important that governments and communities take steps to prevent guns from getting into the hands of criminals. That's why we do important work at our border to keep guns from being smuggled into our country, but it also necessitates additional work. I don't think you can talk about gun violence without talking about stronger gun control. That's why our government has taken a very strong position and will strengthen gun control to keep Canadians safe.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Saroya, you may have a 10-second question, if that's possible, please.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, COVID-19 has not stopped gun violence in the GTA. My constituents are concerned about shootings minutes away from their homes. We know the Liberals' gun ban won't change anything, but a focus on smuggled guns and criminals will. When will they make that change?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bob Saroya"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, stronger gun control laws are an effective tool, and that's been told to us by police leadership and communities across the country. We're also making investments in borders and law enforcement. Most importantly, we're making investments in communities and in kids to keep communities safe. I look forward to the member's strong support of those measures when we bring them forward.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Hoback.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the U.S. and the U.K. began their second round of free trade negotiations yesterday. Does the government intend to have a trade agreement in place before the U.K. tariffs come into effect on January 1?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback (Prince Albert, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the U.K. is a strong partner of Canada, as is the European Union, and we're looking forward to continuing that strong relationship",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go back to Mr. Hoback.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. With respect to the negotiations with the U.K., when will the minister publish her goals and objectives for this agreement?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we're going to continue to work to ensure that any future agreement is going to be based on the best interests of Canadians, and we will",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Hoback.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Can the minister confirm whether they've entered into negotiations with the U.K. at this point?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "Our government is analyzing the most-favoured-nation tariff regimes schedule the U.K. has put out. I want to assure Canadians",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, during the CUSMA negotiations, a deal was struck between the Liberal Party and the NDP that the government would notify this House 90 days before it starts any negotiations on any trade agreement. When will the minister notify this House?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to assure the honourable member that we will absolutely be sharing information. Right now, we are analyzing the most-favoured-nation tariff regimes schedule put out by the U.K.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, any meaningful attempts to reform the WTO needs buy-in from the United States. I think all countries agree on that. Has the minister discussed a WTO reform with the USTR, the United States trade representative?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the Ottawa Group is a consensus-based group, and any decisions will be taken together. Of course, any meaningful reform must include the U.S.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Has the U.S. been invited to the Ottawa Group meetings?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "The Ottawa Group is a consensus-based group limited to WTO members who are committed to bringing forward ideas and proposals",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Just as with any other trade agreement, the minister has committed to this House that she will publish the list of goals and responsibilities for the negotiations. When will she publish the list for the Ottawa Group?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I'm thrilled that we had an excellent meeting of the Ottawa Group yesterday where, as a group, we agreed to take concrete action.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Will the minister be releasing a list of Canada's objectives we would like to see the new WTO's director-general pursue prior to the upcoming DG election?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "We published an action statement from the Ottawa Group yesterday. I would encourage the member opposite to have a look. I'm certainly happy to send it to him.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "Going back to economic prosperity, we know that the U.S. has been having talks with other countries around the world. Has Canada yet been invited to this group?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "I'm pleased to continue to pursue the objectives of trade diversification. I would remind the member that we have access to a billion and a half customers through our very robust",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "A billion and a half customers is fine if you have a functioning WTO, but if you don't have a functioning WTO, then a billion and a half customers may not be fully accessible to our suppliers, manufacturers and agriculture producers. Can the minister confirm that she's in discussions with the U.S. in joining this economic prosperity group?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I want to assure the honourable member that nothing is more important than standing up and helping create markets for our Canadian businesses and to help our small businesses get more export-ready so that they can grow into the international marketplace. This is work that we've committed to do, and we will keep working on it, particularly",
"speaker": "Hon. Mary Ng"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Yesterday Saskatchewan presented a budget. Not only did they present the budget, but they'll also actually debate the budget and pass the budget in Parliament. There's full accountability. Why won't this government do the same?",
"speaker": "Mr. Randy Hoback"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, the House is sitting in this hybrid format so that people can participate in the House on the screens. I'm sure my colleague is happy to see that his own colleagues are able to ask questions and participate.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons)"
},
{
"content": "We'll now go to Mr. Williamson.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will say that this is no substitute for Parliament, but I appreciate the opportunity. New Brunswick families and businesses are rapidly making adjustments to manage and live with the coronavirus pandemic. Businesses here are opening and services are being offered. Families are preparing for summer and even planning ahead for a new school year in September. We have a lot of work ahead of us. One notable absence is Service Canada. When does the government plan on opening its service counters to assist Canadians again?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Williamson (New Brunswick Southwest, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, our government is committed to ensuring that Canadians continue to have access to the benefits that they rely on through Service Canada. We have redeployed over 3,000 additional staff to ensure that Canadians continue to have access to their benefits. We've established a 1,500-agent call centre to make sure that people can get access to the phone lines to get the help they need.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development)"
},
{
"content": "Service Canada is about more than providing COVID-19 information and benefits. Provincial governments are working hard to adjust to Canada's new normal by opening up businesses and front-line government services. When will we see Service Canada play its role and open its service counters in our communities?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Williamson"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we're currently working with our world-class public health experts to determine how best to reopen the Service Canada network for the public. Make no mistake: Our Service Canada employees have gone above and beyond to ensure that Canadians continue to have access to the services that they rely on and the benefits that they need.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "Please don't hide behind health experts when the Prime Minister is appearing in the middle of large protests, yet is afraid to bring back the Parliament of Canada to do its business. In fact, the New Brunswick legislature is open for regular business. Bills are being studied, opposition input is being heard and MLAs are voting on legislation, not rubber-stamping government bills. By comparison, our Parliament is stuck in pretending it cannot function like other law-making assemblies. Canadians are in the dark about our country's finances. When will the government table an economic update so taxpayers understand what was spent, what is owed by our kids and grandchildren, and what the government's fiscal footing looks like?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Williamson"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, nobody's hiding. Nobody's doing anything like that. The only reason my colleague is able to ask a question and I'm able to answer his question is that he's right there on the screen. We have this hybrid format that cares for MPs across the country, not only the ones sitting in the House.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "This is no substitute for Parliament. I will ask my question again. When will the government table an economic update so that taxpayers understand what was spent, what is owed by our kids and grandchildren, and what the government's fiscal footing looks like in today's environment?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Williamson"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, I thank my honourable colleague for his question. Canada's economy is still in a period of extraordinary uncertainty due to COVID-19. We have been open and transparent about the measures we have been providing to support families, businesses and workers. Even our health care",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Williamson.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Except you have not. The Auditor General is underfunded. We have no idea about the total of government spending. Again I will ask when the government will table an economic update so that we can have an understanding of what the government's fiscal footing looks like.",
"speaker": "Mr. John Williamson"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have included biweekly reports to Parliament on the full cost and status of our economic response plan measures since the beginning. I have said, and I will continue to say, that when it is possible to provide a clear economic projection, we will provide an update.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "What is the full cost to date of the government's COVID-19 relief measures, as the minister just claimed the government has provided to Parliament?",
"speaker": "Mr. John Williamson"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Chair, we have provided support for workers, and 2.5 million Canadians have been helped through the Canadian wage subsidy. We have provided businesses with some loans, and 669,000 businesses have applied for these loans. Even for the CERB, we have over eight million Canadians who have applied.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mona Fortier"
},
{
"content": "We will now continue with Mr.Bergeron.",
"speaker": "The Chair"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, as the leader of the Bloc Qubcois mentioned a few moments ago, the government promised $14billion to Quebec and the provinces, but in targeted transfers. That is very little compared to the considerable expenses incurred to deal with the current crisis. But Quebec and the provinces don't just want this money to be transferred unconditionally, they also want a real discussion on a permanent increase in health care transfers. PremierLegault was rightly concerned about the feds' interference into provincial jurisdictions. The federal government, which does not manage any hospitals or long-term care centres, must stop playing armchair quarterback and transfer the money to the only governments with jurisdiction over health, that is, Quebec and the provinces. Will it do so without delay and without nitpicking?",
"speaker": "Mr. Stphane Bergeron"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Chair, we know that the Government of Quebec is working hard to ensure the safety of Quebeckers and we are here to support them. As part of this co-operation, we have developed health and safety recommendations for workplaces, we have purchased medical equipment for workers and we have supported the province in developing its reopening program. We are continuing this important partnership to ensure the safety of Quebeckers and all Canadians.",
"speaker": "The Honourable Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health)"
},
{
"content": "The co-operation is so effective that the money is staying in the federal government's coffers. In fact, when the federal government wants to impose conditions, it always takes longer. We see it with housing, for which Quebec has not received a dime of the $1.4billion it is owed. We have also seen it with infrastructure funds, particularly for public transit, water systems and water treatment. The health crisis is now. The needs are now. The much needed reopening of our economy is now. Will the government finally transfer the money without messing around or quibbling?",
"speaker": "Mr. Stphane Bergeron"
},
{
"content": "I am pleased to confirm to my colleague that there is no messing around, no quibbling, nothing of the kind. There is co-operation between two levels of government. It is natural to have discussions with all the provinces and with Quebec. I myself am taking part in some discussions and several of my colleagues are taking part in others. There is a clear willingness on the part of the federal government to co-operate with Quebec and all the provinces. That is what we are doing and that is perhaps what the Bloc Qubcois does not like. It likes bickering, but for the time being, there is none.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "We don't want to bicker, we want the money to be paid out. It is not complicated, for heaven's sake! We do not want a blank cheque. Right now, the money remains in the federal government's coffers. There is $1.4billion that should be paid to Quebec for social housing and is sitting in the federal government's coffers. We are waiting for money for water treatment and water systems, but it is sitting in the federal government's coffers. It's almost July. We are wasting precious months for construction. What is the government waiting for to pay out the money so that we can get our economy rolling?",
"speaker": "Mr. Stphane Bergeron"
},
{
"content": "The federal government is a very active partner. We are discussing and working with Quebec on infrastructure projects. We are continuing our discussions and negotiations on the housing agreement. Nothing is at a standstill. We are discussing and co-operating for the well-being of all Quebeckers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, things are definitely at a standstill, because the money is owed and has not been paid out. Months are going by while construction is not taking place. We need to reopen the economy. We need more flexibility in the gas tax program and Quebec's contribution to allow municipalities to undertake work on city halls, community centres and fire stations. We need the federal government to contribute to funding public transit operations, which have become a real financial drain because of the drop in ridership. What is the federal government waiting for to provide real help instead of just talking?",
"speaker": "Mr. Stphane Bergeron"
},
{
"content": "When it comes to just talking, the Bloc Qubcois has a lot of experience, I admit. We, in the government, are working and co-operating. We are not waiting with our arms folded, we are discussing a series of issues with Quebec. We do more than discuss, we work and we co-operate. We are working on projects, not only in infrastructure, but in a number of other areas. Just think of the co-operation of our armed forces in the CHSLDs, for example. We are here for Quebeckers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Your time has run out, Mr.Bergeron. We'll go now to Ms. Khalid, from MississaugaErin Mills.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I'll be splitting my time with the member for GlengarryPrescottRussell. During a consultation with the business community in Mississauga, the concerns of businesses, big and small, included the need for stable, affordable and safe child care. With the lack of such child care spaces, an economic recovery plan post-COVID cannot be effective until and unless we make sure that people are able to get back to work. I've heard from parents across Mississauga that they're being forced to stay home because of inadequate child care and that they have to choose between putting food on the table and keeping family safe. More and more employers are realizing that good employees are unable to contribute to their business growth because of this challenge. Now more than ever, we need to find long-term sustainable solutions for Canadians who face challenges with regard to child care. I ask our Minister of Families, Children and Social Development this: What is our strategy to tackle this ever-growing need for a national child care plan?",
"speaker": "Ms. Iqra Khalid (MississaugaErin Mills, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I thank the honourable member for her question and for her important advocacy and work on this important issue. We understand that child care is important to our economic recovery and our social infrastructure. We know the pressure that COVID-19 has placed on families, especially parents. That is why we're committed to continuing to work with provinces and territories to renew our agreements on early learning and child care, and to provide, at the earliest opportunity, $400 million in support. In addition to that, the Prime Minister has already indicated that child care will be part of the $14-billion pledge to provinces and territories to assist them with respect to COVID-19 recovery efforts. Over the next decade, we will continue to invest $7.5 billion, and together we have achieved the goal of over 40,000 affordable child care spaces. We are also committed to continuing to create over 250,000 before-school and after-school child care spaces for kids under the age of 10. We will continue to work with our partners in the provinces and territories to ensure that Canadians can continue to have access to safe, quality and affordable child care.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member for GlengarryPrescottRussell has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, small businesses play a fundamental role in the Canadian economy. In an article in LaPresse, the Minister of Economic Development warned us that the economic crisis caused by severe lockdown measures could have more serious consequences in small municipalities than in large cities. Based on discussions with the chambers of commerce in my riding, it is clear that federal government assistance will be essential for the reopening of the economy, specifically for the rural economy. In fact, I would like to acknowledge the work of the Prescott-Russell community development corporation , under the leadership of John Candie. After announcing almost $57million to help SMEs adopt e-commerce, how does the minister plan to help SMEs and the business community in our rural areas?",
"speaker": "Mr. Francis Drouin (GlengarryPrescottRussell, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I also thank my colleague from GlengarryPrescottRussell for his important question. Yes, our regions are important and the entrepreneurs in those regions are creative and daring. They take risks, but they are currently facing huge challenges. So we are here for them. We understand their anxiety and we want to help them. That is why we have decided to invest heavily in rural economic development. It is also why we have doubled the budget of CFDCs and Community Futures organizations across the country. In southern Ontario we have reinvested over $260million in the regional economic development agency FedDev. In the great riding of GlengarryPrescottRussell, which I am particularly fond of and where there is a very good member of Parliament, there is an additional $1million for entrepreneurs in the region. We have been, we are and we will be at your side.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly (Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member for GlengarryPrescottRussell has 36seconds left. No? Then we'll go to the honourable member for ElmwoodTranscona.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for Victoria. Madam Chair, Krystal is a community worker in Winnipeg. She has been working from home since late March, taking care of her child, who is out of school, and caring for her father, who is living with her and vulnerable to COVID-19. Her employer called her up recently and asked her to physically return to work or to take a leave. As a parent and a care provider to a vulnerable person, she's not comfortable with physically returning to work. Service Canada won't give Krystal a straight answer as to whether going on leave and collecting CERB would count as refusing a reasonable job offer. With Bill C-17 looming in the background, Krystal is worried about jail time and fines if she does right by her child and her father by applying for CERB. Can Krystal reasonably refuse to go back to work and collect CERB, or will she be considered a fraudster? That's my question for the minister that is specific to Krystal's case. As well, what is the minister doing to provide clear direction to Canadians and to Service Canada agents so that people can get a clear answer before making their decision about returning to work?",
"speaker": "Mr. Daniel Blaikie (ElmwoodTranscona, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I want to thank the honourable member for his important question. We recognize that Canadian workers will face various different situations, including those who are ineligible for the Canada emergency support benefit. We'll continue to work with workers to make sure they're able to be supported throughout this pandemic. The fact of the matter is that every province has workplace health and safety regulations that must be supported. We understand that workers have the right not to work in unsafe situations. We also understand that many Canadians do want to go back to work; and in fact many have. We will make sure that we support Canadians throughout this recovery process.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member has 47 seconds left, and that includes the answer.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, that answer is really not good enough, because the problem here is that Krystal needs to know whether she can continue receiving CERB or not. That's a federal government decision, and she needs to know whether the federal government is going to accuse her of fraud and put her in jail or assess fines against her if she refuses to go back to work because she wants to take care of her child and her father. What is the minister's answer to that?",
"speaker": "Mr. Daniel Blaikie"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister has 20 seconds to respond.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I can assure the honourable member that if a Canadian has to take care of a loved one due to circumstances surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic, they are indeed eligible to receive the CERB and remain receiving that benefit.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "As we deal with the global pandemic, we cannot lose sight of the ongoing climate emergency. Canada has missed every single climate target it set, and we need to break the cycle of empty promises. Canadians want their government to be accountable, and environmental groups such as Ecojustice, CAN-Rac, Environmental Defence and West Coast Environmental Law, as well as the government's own climate institute, are all calling for legally binding climate targets. When will the government put its climate targets into law with legally binding milestones so we never miss another target again?",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I thank my honourable colleague for her question. I totally agree with her when it comes to the environment. It is a priority not only for us as a government, but it should be a priority for all Canadians. That is why we have put measures in place to put a price on pollution through carbon pricing. That is why we have a comprehensive plan that also includes significant investments in clean technology, which will help reduce our carbon footprint. I am confident that these measures will enable us to not only meet but exceed our 2030 target and also allow us to achieve our net-zero 2050 target.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains (MississaugaMalton, Lib.)"
},
{
"content": "That didn't answer my question. I asked when. Empty promises won't get us any closer to meeting our climate targets. Can the minister tell us when his government will introduce climate accountability laws?",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I think the fundamental issue here is having a plan when it comes to the environment. I'm confident that the measures that we have takenputting a price on pollution, investing in clean technology, and other key measures to reduce our carbon footprint, including the investment in infrastructureunderpin a plan",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to the honourable member for Victoria.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "This government is not meeting its targets, but it is meeting with oil and gas lobbyists. The pandemic has made us reflect on our priorities. Are we going to choose a just recovery with good, sustainable jobs for Canadian workers, or are we going to keep subsidizing oil and gas companies to the tune of billions, subsidies that we know are ending up in the pockets of CEOs and shareholders?",
"speaker": "Ms. Laurel Collins"
},
{
"content": "We will have a brief answer from the minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Again, Madam Chair, this is the fundamental difference between us and the NDP. We fundamentally believe that the entire economy needs to work together, including the energy sector, to enable us to achieve those 2030 and 2050 targets. We are going to work together to support our workers, including in the energy sector, to reduce our carbon footprint.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "Now we will go to the honourable member for SaskatoonGrasswood, Mr. Waugh.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. When I was last here in May, I was on my way back to Saskatoon from Toronto, and there was actually someone on my flight who tested positive for COVID-19. I was never informed of it by the airline. I found out two weeks later. The report was in the news media. Why hasn't the government put rules in place requiring airlines to reach out to individuals like me who may have been exposed to COVID on their flights?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh (SaskatoonGrasswood, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, it's hard to speculate on what happened from such a vague description of his experience, but I will say that we have every confidence in local public health, which is doing the hard and heavy lifting of contact tracing and working very closely with all kinds of different sectors, including airline sectors, to make sure that close contacts of people who have tested positive for COVID-19 are found, are traced and are isolated. I assume that the member took appropriate precautions on the flight and I hope that he continues to do so.",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, it was reported that the individual on my plane who had COVID was actually connecting in Toronto from an international flight. The Prime Minister announced last week that they would begin mandating temperature checks for those bound for Canada in July. Will international travellers be tested when they land in Canada, or will they be relying on the tests that take place in other countries?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, this is a very important question, because the protection and safety of all Canadiansin particular, Canadian travellersis a high priority for our government. We've been working very closely with the airlines. At the current time, we are putting temperature screening in place. That will initially be done primarily by the airlines that are in the best position to do it at this point in time. We are also now going to be including CATSA, the people who do the security screening, so that when people enter the airport, they will also be screened. We believe that is going to be the most effective measure to keep all travellers safe.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, last week five of the largest professional sports leagues in North America put out a statement of support for my private member's bill, the safe and regulated sports betting act. Given the struggles that clubs and leagues are facing due to COVID-19, including having no fans at all in the stands for the foreseeable future, the legalization of sports betting would be a welcome opportunity not only to engage fans but to generate much-needed revenue. Will the government commit now to supporting the sports and gaming industries by supporting my private member's bill, Bill C-218?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I've had the opportunity on many occasions to speak to members of Parliament and also to mayors and councillors and people living in border communities where there are casinos. They've raised this issue a number of times. We've listened very carefully to the concerns that have been expressed by them. I would like to advise the member that I look forward to the opportunity for a careful examination of his bill. We are at all times concerned about maintaining the integrity of the gaming industry within our community. That's the best way to protect Canadians. At the same time, we will examine his bill with all of the necessary attention to make sure it's given full consideration.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, it's the first time in history that we've had the five professional leagues in this country joining together for this bill. Newspapers rely, as we all know, on advertising for a significant portion of their revenue. This includes the usual flyers as well as in-paper ads. I've heard major concerns from a number of newspapers in this country about competition they're receiving today from Canada Post, which is offering massive free postage services. In fact, I have one of their ads here, which says that the first 6,000 pieces of postage are 100% free. If the government is genuine about wanting to ensure that newspapers and journals can succeed in this country, why are you allowing Canada Post to use its monopoly power to actually threaten local newspapers in this country?",
"speaker": "Mr. Kevin Waugh"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madame Chair, and I thank the member opposite for his question. As you well know, a healthy news and media sector in Canada is a priority for our government, which is why we have put in place a number of measures before COVID-19 and during COVID-19, and we will continue to be there for them after this crisis has gone by.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Canadian Heritage)"
},
{
"content": "Before we go on, we will be taking a break to do a bit of a changeover. I also want to remind members to address their questions and comments to the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for BruceGreyOwen Sound, Mr. Ruff.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Mr. Blair stated yesterday here in the House that the AR-15 has been used in mass killings in Canada on many occasions. Mr. Blair, please provide just one specific instance in which an AR-15 was used in a mass killing in Canada.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alex Ruff (BruceGreyOwen Sound, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "I remind the member to address questions and comments to the chair. The honourable minister may respond.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I think this is an excellent opportunity to point out to the member opposite how important it is to actually listen to what was said. If you go back and review that tape, and I would invite you to do so, you'll see that I said the AR-15 and other weapons like themreferring of course to military-style assault weaponshave been used in mass killings, and I actually cited a number of examples. Madam Chair, I think it would be very useful if the member's questions were based on facts.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "I can remind Mr. Blair that I actually have watched the video a couple of times, and he specifically states that the AR-15 was used in mass killings in Canada, yet he has yet to provide one. My additional question is to Mr. Blair. Out of the recently banned firearms on May 1, how many have been or are still currently in use by the Canadian Armed Forces?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alex Ruff"
},
{
"content": "That's an excellent question, Madam Chair, because it's very important to provide Canadians with clarity. We have prohibited these firearms for non-law enforcement and non-military use. The military uses weapons that were actually designed for soldiers to use in combat to shoot other soldiers. That's the appropriate use of such weapons, Madam Chair. They're not things to be played with in civilian society.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "As a soldier for 25 years, I'll remind Mr. Blair that none of the currently prohibited firearms would be used in the Canadian Armed Forces. I asked him a question on whether any of them is being or ever has been used in the Canadian Armed Forces. Are any of the recently banned firearms still in use, or have they ever been in use, in any military in the world?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alex Ruff"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I think it's important to also recognize that the basic origin, the provenance of the weapons that we have prohibited, was in their original design. They were designed for military use for various military forces around the world. As I've said previously, they were designed for soldiers to use in combat to kill other soldiers. They're very efficient in their design for killing people. They have no purpose in Canadian society.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "As someone who has used many military-style firearms and who is actually involved in helping define what we purchase in the military, I would use none of the ones that are currently prohibited. I have a question, Chair, for Minister MacAulay. Can he please confirm whether Veterans Affairs has a plan to address the claims backlog, yes or no?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alex Ruff"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question, and yes, we've indicated that it's a major priority. That's why I'm so pleased that the supplementary estimates contained just under $90 million to address hiring more staff, improving the process and making sure that we attack the backlog in an appropriate manner.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Veterans Affairs)"
},
{
"content": "Madame Chair, does that plan exist in written form?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alex Ruff"
},
{
"content": "Well, Madam Chair, I can assure you that it's in the supplementary estimates, and of course, this money is",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Ruff.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "The question is about the plan, not how much money has been allocated. I am asking for the written plan on how to address the backlog.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alex Ruff"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I can tell my honourable colleague that the money is in the supplementary estimates, and with the money we're able to attack this problem in an appropriate manner, and that's what is important for our veterans.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "The deputy minister committed on March 10 that a written plan would be provided to the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs within a month and made public. Did the deputy minister or the department provide the minister that plan within a month?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alex Ruff"
},
{
"content": "Madame Chair, I'm sure my honourable colleague wants an appropriate plan and he would be fully aware this just under $90 million would make a big difference in the plan to attack the backlog. We",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We'll go back to Mr. Ruff.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Therefore, my question is, if the deputy minister in the department provided him with an appropriate plan or a written plan, why is he questioning how appropriate that plan is? I have complete confidence in the deputy minister's ability to produce a written plan.",
"speaker": "Mr. Alex Ruff"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister may give a brief answer, please.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "I can assure my honourable colleague that with the appropriate funding, we will address the backlog in Veterans Affairs.",
"speaker": "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay"
},
{
"content": "We will go now to the honourable member for Parry SoundMuskoka, Mr. Aitchison.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is about summer camps again. Three weeks ago, I asked this government if the finance minister would meet with the beleaguered summer camp sector. Summer camps, which are a social and economic mainstay in Parry SoundMuskoka and all of northern Ontario, have been crippled by the global pandemic. It's costing millions of jobs, and some camps are actually in danger of folding. Aside from a brief follow-up conversation over the phone with the junior minister, there has still been no action from this government. When will the Minister of Finance meet with summer camps to find a solution?",
"speaker": "Mr. Scott Aitchison"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I recognize the honourable member's important question and his focus on summer camps. We recognize the importance of looking at that and paying attention to the needs of that community. We will continue to engage with them, as we have, to ensure and find ways in which we can get their feedback and find ways in which we can support them. That work is ongoing, and I assure the honourable member that our focus is on the kids and on ensuring that they have access to summer camps for this year.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "I don't know why you need to find ways to get feedback. The summer camps association has given lots of feedback and my office has given lots of feedback, so I don't see what's confusing about this. However, I've become accustomed to not really getting answers to questions, so I will go to the next one. The Ontario government's regional reopening plan permits cruise boats to resume on Georgian Bay, yet the federal government is refusing to allow these vessels to operate until July 1. Therefore, small businesses such as the Island Queen cruiser in Parry Sound, which has only a very few precious weeks to operate in the first place, is losing yet another two weeks because of federal inaction. This not only hurts the cruise boat industry but also hurts tourism and small businesses all through our area. Will the Minister of Transport take a regional approach himself by lifting the federal ban on Georgian Bay, just like the Province of Ontario has done?",
"speaker": "Mr. Scott Aitchison"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister may reply. Is there a response?",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, there is. I apologize for the confusion. Let me respond, if I may, on behalf of the Minister of Transport. There have been a number of very important discussions with the provinces, in particular with the Province of Ontario, around provisions regarding pleasure craft. There are certain restrictions that will come to an end on June 30. We're working very closely with our provincial counterparts to address this issue, but we want to ensure that it will be done safely.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I actually gave the minister a heads-up that I would be asking that question. He sent me an email today saying he was not going to be able to be in the House, and it's great of him to do that. He said that whoever was going to fill in for him would have an answer, but again, that was not really an answer. The next issue I would like to bring this government's attention to is the deplorable state of rural Internet service in Parry SoundMuskoka. Quite simply, there are too many gaps in service, and what is available is generally way too expensive. We have families trying to work and teach their kids from home on unreliable and outrageously expensive Internet service, and we have too many small businesses that either cannot access or afford reliable Internet services. Today Greg Rickford, the Ontario energy minister, and Laurie Scott, Ontario Minister of Infrastructure, announced $2.3 million for seven northern Ontario broadband projects. Minister, will when your government get serious and become a reliable partner for the Government of Ontario and the private sector to deliver this crucial modern-day infrastructure to rural Canadians?",
"speaker": "Mr. Scott Aitchison"
},
{
"content": "I remind the member that he needs to address the questions and comments to the chair. The honourable minister may reply.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, in the best of times, life without access to high-speed Internet is hard. During a pandemic, the challenges are that much more pronounced. Our government's unprecedented investments are already connecting a million more Canadian households to this essential service, but until we achieve universal access our work is not done. We will work with our partners, including provinces across the country, to connect every Canadian household to high-quality Internet access that is affordable and reliable.",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef (Minister for Women and Gender Equality and Rural Economic Development)"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member has 30 seconds.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "I think I can squeeze something in here, then. I'm wondering, then, Madam Chair, since the Province of Ontario has used the Northern Ontario Heritage Corporation Fund to make this announcement, what about using FedNor to make the same kind of announcement, and partner with the province?",
"speaker": "Mr. Scott Aitchison"
},
{
"content": "The honourable minister has a brief answer.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Obviously we believe in the importance of northern Ontario; that's why we nearly doubled the budget of FedNor. We will continue to invest in businesses and people all around Parry Sound, Muskoka and northern Ontario. If my colleague has specific projects in mind, please come and see me and let's have a conversation.",
"speaker": "Hon. Mlanie Joly"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member for Montmagny-L'Islet-KamouraskaRivire-du-Loup, Mr.Gnreux, has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, MadamChair. I will continue along the same lines as my colleague. During this pandemic, we are realizing the extent to which reliable high-speed Internet service is needed for Canada's economy. There are still places where telework is not possible today because of the lack of adequate coverage. However, since2015, the government has committed to addressing the situation through three new programs. Benot Pilotto, who is the mayor of Saint-Onsime-d'Ixworth, in my riding, wrote to me a few days ago. That is why I am asking you what concrete results the government plans to achieve for our rural areas by the end of the year.",
"speaker": "Mr. Bernard Gnreux (MontmagnyL'IsletKamouraskaRivire-du-Loup, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "At the best of times, life without high-speed Internet access is difficult. During a pandemic, the difficulties are even greater. Our government's unprecedented investments are already connecting an additional one million Canadian households to this essential service. However, until we achieve universal access, our job is not done. We are working",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Gnreux, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I am simply asking the minister to tell me when the mayor of Saint-Onsime-d'Ixworth will be able to tell his residents when the Internet will be available in his municipality. It is not complicated. What does the government plan to do so that rural municipalities across Canada can have access to the Internet as soon as possible? What is its plan?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bernard Gnreux"
},
{
"content": "We are working with partners across the country to ensure that every Canadian household is connected to a high-quality, accessible and affordable high-speed Internet service. Madam Chair, I assure my colleagues that we share the same goal, and we will work with all our partners across the country to ensure every Canadian household has access",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "Mr.Gnreux, you have the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I am still not getting a specific answer. According to the government's plan, when will rural Canadian businesses and households be connected?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bernard Gnreux"
},
{
"content": "I would ask the honourable minister to provide a brief answer.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, those plans are under way, and we will have more to share in the coming days.",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "It seems that the Minister of Rural Economic Development plans to announce a new plan this week. Can she tell us how this program will differ from the Connect to Innovate program, which is already in place? Can the minister tell us whether her program will solve the problem of the 25square kilometre hexagonal zones, which unfortunately make many projects ineligible for the CRTC's broadband fund?",
"speaker": "Mr. Bernard Gnreux"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I'm pleased to share with my colleague that the model he's referring to, the hexagon model, is no more. Our maps are much more precise now to ensure that we do not leave Canadians behind.",
"speaker": "Hon. Maryam Monsef"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, this year, the Canada summer jobs program is a real fiasco. I think all my colleagues will agree with me. On May13, 100jobs were announced in my riding; on May20, 16jobs were announced; on May27, 13jobs were announced; on June3, 12jobs were announced; and on June10, only one job was announced. As we speak, an amount of $100,000 is still to be confirmed in my riding. Can we have an announcement, once and for all? Let's stop the piecemeal announcements and finally confirm the remaining jobs today so that our organizations can have young people before the summer starts on the weekend.",
"speaker": "Mr. Bernard Gnreux"
},
{
"content": "We will go to the honourable minister.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, I thank the honourable member for his question. We recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program is playing in supporting employers and young workers in communities right across the country. Our government is working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic, and at the same time is supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We've introduced flexibilities into the program to ensure that more young workers have opportunities to get employed. The honourable member also has to understand that we're in the COVID-19 pandemic, and as such it will take some time for businesses to equip themselves to hire students.",
"speaker": "Hon. Ahmed Hussen"
},
{
"content": "We will go to the honourable member for NanaimoLadysmith, Mr. Manly.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. In the first five months of this year, 554 B.C. residents died from opioid overdoses. They were teachers, construction workers, business owners, family members, neighbours and friends. Addiction is a health and social issue, but criminalization creates stigma, so people hide their drug use and die alone. Access to a safe supply of drugs and safe injection sites saves lives and puts addicts in daily contact with people who can help them. Will this government end the war on drugs by decriminalizing them, providing a safe supply and reallocating resources from policing addicts to providing treatment for them?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I think it's really important we make sure that when we speak about people who use substances, we remove stigmatizing language like the word addict. We can stand together, as this government has, with people who use substances and their families to ensure a range of options for people who are struggling with addiction, who are using substances in a way that is harming their health and their communities. As you know, we have restored harm reduction to the Canadian drugs and substances strategy. We've made it easier for people to access safe supplies of substances. We've increased access to treatment and the variety of treatment through federal transfers to provinces and territories. Madam Chair, we're working with communities to make sure there are more community-based approaches to treating",
"speaker": "Hon. Patty Hajdu"
},
{
"content": "We will go back to Mr. Manly.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the Geneva Convention considers both tear gas and pepper spray to be chemical weapons and prohibits their use in war, yet our police forces use these weapons on Canadian civilians. These weapons are indiscriminate and can affect peaceful protestors and innocent bystanders. Will the government prohibit the use of these weapons and require police to use de-escalation techniques to keep legal protests peaceful?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the right to peaceful protest in this country is a constitutionally protected right. We want to ensure it's always respected. At the same time, Madam Chair, we recognize that the use of even less than lethal force can have significant impacts on people's safety. This is a highly regulated substance in Canada. It's prohibited for non-police use, and for the police it is and should be highly regulated. The RCMP have advised me they have not used tear gas in nine years. We'll continue to monitor it to ensure that peaceful protest is always respected.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, in 2012 the RCMP spent $14 million on 18 armoured personnel carriers. One's parked at the Nanaimo detachment. I can't imagine why we have weapons of war like this for policing civilians. Will the government rein in the RCMP budget and end wasteful spending on militarizing our civilian police forces?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, it's a very important tradition that our Canadian police are not militarized. At the same time, we've seen a number of tragedies when police have responded to situations in which people were armed with weapons designed for soldiers to kill soldiers, and they've been used to kill police officers. The militarization of our society, so strongly promoted by some, is the direct consequence of the militarization of the police. As we remove these weapons from our society and prohibit them, we'll make it safer for everyone and we can then move away from such a model of policing.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the government spent $4.5 billion to buy an old, leaky pipeline. Since 1961, there have been 82 reported spills from the Trans Mountain pipeline. Over 1.5 million litres of crude oil has spilled into the surrounding environment. This weekend, the Trans Mountain pipeline leaked again, dumping 190,000 litres of oil. How much is this spill going to cost Canadian taxpayers to clean up? How much contingency funding has been budgeted to repair the environmental destruction from spills?",
"speaker": "Mr. Paul Manly"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I want to thank the honourable colleague for his question. He full well knows that the acquisition that we made with regard to the TMX initiative is a reflection of the fact that we want this initiative to move forward in a sustainable manner and in a manner that protects the environment. I'll continue to work with my colleagues to endeavour to make sure that we have the appropriate processes in place to protect the environment and at the same time create good-quality, middle-class jobs for Canadians.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member for RosemontLa PetitePatrie, Mr.Boulerice, has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, MadamChair. The Black Lives Matter movement is right to discuss systemic racism in our societies. In Montreal, the city and the police department have recognized this, and measures will be put in place. The Liberal government, once again, is all talk and no walk. Although it spends $10million a day, we see no attempt to reform or change the RCMP. If the Prime Minister really wants to act, why is he delaying the action plan in response to the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (RosemontLa Petite-Patrie, NDP)"
},
{
"content": "Let me assure this House and the member opposite that we're not dragging our feet. This is an important issue. Indigenous people, black Canadians and other racialized people are far too often experiencing systemic racism and disparate outcomes through the criminal justice system. It's incumbent upon all of us who work within the criminal justice system to take the steps and actions necessary to produce more equitable outcomes. All police services, including the RCMP, must be committed to ensuring that the people they're sworn to serve and protect are always treated with dignity and respect.",
"speaker": "Hon. Bill Blair"
},
{
"content": "MadamChair, why are the Liberals taking indigenous children to court to challenge the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruling in their favour?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexandre Boulerice"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, as the honourable member knows full well, a number of cases are pending, and we are currently negotiating with the parties. We are making progress, and I would be delighted to tell the member and the House about it in response to a later question.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marc Miller (Minister of Indigenous Services)"
},
{
"content": "We've been asking questions about it for months, and as I see it, we should keep doing so. The Prime Minister's new pipeline, which taxpayers were forced to buy with their hard-earned money, has leaked. Some 190,000litres of oil spilled, and we can't even make the company pay for it because the Liberals bought the pipeline. Trans-Mountain, KeystoneXL and the resumption of gas exploration and development off the coast of Newfoundland and Labradorare these the projects the Liberals had in mind for their green recovery?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexandre Boulerice"
},
{
"content": "I'd like to thank the honourable member for his question. Our priority was to protect the health and safety of Canadians throughout the pandemic, especially when it comes to the environment. That's why environmental and climate change laws aimed at protecting the environment, human health and conservation will remain in force.",
"speaker": "Hon. Navdeep Bains"
},
{
"content": "Across Quebec, the cultural community is going through a harrowing time. Unions, associations, artists and creators have all taken part in public demonstrations recently to condemn the lack of a specific plan for the living arts, performing arts and festival sector. What is the government waiting for?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexandre Boulerice"
},
{
"content": "I'd like to thank the member for his question. However, I strongly disagree with him. We haven't waited to develop a plan for the arts and culture sector. We listened to the community and we tailored our supports, as they were announced. We have an emergency plan for the arts and culture sector. We were asked to adapt the CERB to take royalties into account, and we did. We were asked to extend the CERB, and we did. We are fully aware that the recovery will take longer in the arts and culture sector. We have been there, we are there and we will be there for the arts and culture sector.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "Well, that wasn't at all what the artists and creators who were out demonstrating in the streets a few days ago thought. They were protesting on the weekend. The CERB extension announced by the government only brings us to September, but the cultural community is expecting the worst in the fall. What is the government's long-term plan to support creators and their entire teams?",
"speaker": "Mr. Alexandre Boulerice"
},
{
"content": "I'm not so sure those who were protesting last week had issues with our government, but we'd certainly be happy to speak with them. As for a long-term plan, we are currently consulting arts and culture stakeholders to contemplate together how the government can help the sector in response to the ongoing crisis. We are working on finding solutions, but until we have long-term solutions, we have seen to it that our artists and organizations have access to funding until September.",
"speaker": "Hon. Steven Guilbeault"
},
{
"content": "The honourable member for BeauportLimoilou, Mrs.Vignola, has the floor.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I will be sharing my time with the member for Montcalm. According to the latest news, Seaspan Shipyards will be spending an additional $1.5billion to build two ships. Why? Because the ships were ordered in 2011 and still haven't been delivered. Davie built the Asterix without going over budget because it delivered the ship on time. Davie is currently the top shipyard, representing 50% of Canada's shipbuilding capacity. Why isn't Davie being awarded its fair share of contracts?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Julie Vignola (BeauportLimoilou, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "I'd like to thank the member for her question. Davie is certainly a strong and trusted partner that works very hard to help our government get results for Canadians. Building a new class of ships is highly complex, and it's not unusual for cost estimates to change throughout the procurement project. It's important to make sure additional funding is available for the joint support ships project to ensure the navy's vessels are delivered.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand (Minister of Public Services and Procurement)"
},
{
"content": "We are talking about $1.5billion, here. In the beginning, eight years ago, the project was supposed to cost $2.6billion. There can't be much missing when the cost overrun is double the initial estimate. Why haven't the ships been delivered yet? Why is Davie still not seen as a trusted partner?",
"speaker": "Mrs. Julie Vignola"
},
{
"content": "Minister, please keep your answer brief.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Once again, I would point out that building a new class of ships is highly complex, and it's not unusual for the cost estimate to change for a procurement project as large as this one. I know that Davie works very hard, and we also believe it is an outstanding partner.",
"speaker": "Hon. Anita Anand"
},
{
"content": "It is now over to the honourable member for Montcalm, Mr.Thriault.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, in Quebec, 12,000people have begun their training to work in residential and long-term care centres. They will be ready for duty in mid-September. In the meantime, we need the support of the army, which is helping us save lives. The dedication of the members of the armed forces is paramount, and I want to extend my heartfelt thanks. The government extended their mission until June26, which is only 10days away. What does the army have to do right now that is more important than helping our caregivers save lives?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Thriault (Montcalm, BQ)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, I'm glad my fellow member recognizes the fundamental role the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces have played and continue to play in residential and long-term care centres and many other areas in support of our seniors. We are in talks with the Quebec government. The discussions around providing continued assistance to Quebec are quite positive and productive. That assistance can take many forms, including the Red Cross. We will be there for our seniors, Madam Chair.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "We are short 12,000people, so if the Red Cross wants to help us, all the better. We'll take all the help we can get. Barely 800members of the military are still in Quebec. I repeat my question: What does the army have to do 10days from now that is more important if it's not to help caregivers save lives?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Thriault"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, all the members of the military are still in Quebec. They have done absolutely incredible work and are continuing to do so. The people at the Canadian Red Cross are well-trained paid workers who can perform the same work in partnership with the members of the armed forces, who can stay in Quebec as well. Right now, we are working with the Quebec government and discussing how we can keep the measure in place until September15.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, our nurses and orderlies are exhausted. They're at the end of their ropes. Now is the time to thank them, not the time to turn our backs on them. It's not the time for dilly-dallying or discussions. It's the time to tell them that we will be there to help them until the end. I will repeat my question. What does the army have to do that is more important than helping caregivers save the lives of those who built Quebec?",
"speaker": "Mr. Luc Thriault"
},
{
"content": "The Leader of the Government in the House of Commons is asked to keep his answer brief.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, the Government of Canada is there and will continue to be there to help the people who built Quebec. The Government of Canada will work with the Quebec government to make that happen.",
"speaker": "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez"
},
{
"content": "We will go to the honourable member for Red DeerMountain View, Mr. Dreeshen.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you so much. Madam Chair, on May 14 I asked the Minister of Agriculture when the Liberal government would put aside its usual campaign rhetoric and recognize the very detrimental impact the carbon tax is having on farmers across this country. Minister Bibeau proudly noted that according to their data, the average cost of the carbon tax per farm across Canada is $210 to $819. We know that these numbers are completely unfounded and are not based on any factual evidence. The fact is that the Liberal government's own Parliamentary Budget Officer has estimated that at $25 per tonne, the cost for an 855-acre crop farm in Alberta is well over $6,000. The office came up with that using the government's statistics from the 2016 agricultural census. Madam Chair, the evidence is right in front of the minister. When will this Liberal government come clean with Canadians and recognize the disastrous impact the carbon tax is having on Canada's critical agriculture and agri-food sector?",
"speaker": "Mr. Earl Dreeshen (Red DeerMountain View, CPC)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, our pollution pricing policy is designed to grow a clean economy. To support this sector, we have put in place the following measures. Emissions from livestock and crop production are not priced. Farm fuels and fuels from cardlock facilities are exempt, and there is a partial rebate for propane and natural gas used in commercial greenhouses. Our government has been very open and transparent about our pollution pricing plan. We will do a review of our pollution pricing system in 2020, focused on competitiveness issues in trade-exposed industries such as agriculture. It is also important to remember that this is about tackling climate change and that 100% of the revenues stay in the province. We will continue to support our farmers and food processors as they provide an essential service across Canada.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food)"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, Minister Bibeau keeps talking about wanting to protect Canadians' environment. Well, the truth is that Canada's farmers, ranchers and processors have for years demonstrated their ability to deliver meaningful reductions in emissions and to safeguard the environment through the adoption of new technologies, education and innovative management practices, but the government ignores these efforts. Will the minister at the very least admit to Canadians that Canadian farmers are unable to pass on the cost of the carbon tax to consumers and instead have to absorb those extra costs out of their own pockets?",
"speaker": "Mr. Earl Dreeshen"
},
{
"content": "Madam Chair, allow me to explain again our government's position on pollution pricing. The price and method were developed so we could build an increasingly clean economy. We put a number of measures in place to help the agriculture sector. Emissions from animal and plant production aren't taxed. Farm fuels and fuels delivered to off-farm points-of-sale are also",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have another question.",
"speaker": "Mr. Earl Dreeshen"
},
{
"content": "I am watching the time, Mr. Dreeshan. You have a couple more seconds.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Madam Chair, Minister Bibeau has repeatedly asked stakeholders to send her data about the impacts of the carbon tax on farmers, so this is exactly what they have been doing. The Atlantic Grains Council, the Grain Farmers of Ontario, Producteurs de grains du Qubec and the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association issued a joint statement at the beginning of this year in which they estimated that the cumulative indirect inflation of carbon tax on farm costs will be $14.50 an acre this year, with that cost escalating by more than double by 2022 to almost $30 an acre. These are huge numbers. Why does the Liberal government continue to ignore the facts presented to it and continue to misrepresent the truth to Canadians?",
"speaker": "Mr. Earl Dreeshen"
},
{
"content": "Madame Chair, I can assure you that we have paid close attention to all the information that has been provided to us and that our calculation was also based on this information provided by provinces and different stakeholders. Mr. Earl Dreeshen: Thank you Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Our government has been very open and transparent about our pollution pricing plan. The department used data from stakeholders and provinces Mr. Earl Dreeshen: Thank you very much, Madam Chair Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau:as well as the 2019 agricultural tax data to estimate the average cost of pollution pricing associated with grain drying at up to 0.4% of overall operating costs. It is important to remember that we have put in place many special provisions Mr. Earl Dreeshen: Madam Chair Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: like exempting farm fuel and providing other financial supports for farmers.",
"speaker": "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau"
},
{
"content": "Mr. Dreeshen, I am watching the time, and the minister is allowed to answer for the same amount of time that you used to ask the question. Therefore, I would hope that we would allow her to finish. She has finished, and unfortunately the time is up. The committee now stands adjourned until tomorrow at noon.",
"speaker": "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes)"
}
] |
education_1 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"19"
]
],
"topic": "School reopening issues discussion"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"20",
"28"
]
],
"topic": "Current situation faced by students"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"29",
"55"
]
],
"topic": "Impact on particular children with intense need"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"56",
"66"
]
],
"topic": "Working with local authorities to assure sustainable learning"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"67",
"70"
]
],
"topic": "Examinations and school qualifications discussion"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"71",
"78"
]
],
"topic": "Higher education methods discussion"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"79",
"90"
]
],
"topic": "Changes about student support"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting with the Welsh Government is mainly about the impact of the coronavirus epidemic on education in Wales. To start with, Kirsty Williams AM indicated that still there was not an exact date schools might reopen. Students could only return to school in the safe environment, which required the lead from scientific and medical advisers. Meanwhile, Kirsty Williams AM emphasized that the government would not relax any of the restrictions with regard to education and new measuring methods would be applied concerning performance rate, etc. It was suggested that there was an increase in the number of attendances to the open hubs and the ability to test, to trace and to quarantine would be critical to the next phase. Moreover, the meeting agreed that schools should remain in contact with children in need and continue to identify vulnerable children with emotional and mental health difficulties. Also, methods to assure sustainable higher education would be applied and vocational qualification students would fear none. Last but not least, although the education cost for students receiving support regime would decrease, there would be no change on the allowance.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Hefin David AM raised a question concerning the date schools might reopen since there had been an increase in the number of students who had returned to some schools. However, Kirsty Williams AM had not been given an exact date by the chief medical officer and the public had to wait for the advice of the medical and scientific advisers. Now, the only thing for certain was the five principles that had been published earlier that day concerning the school reopening issues.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the school reopening date?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"3",
"6"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Firstly, any decision to have more children returning to school made should align with the safety and the physical and the emotional well-being of students and the staff. Secondly, new decisions made from the education ministry should be taken in the context of the wider Welsh Government response to dealing with this pandemic. Thirdly, communication with the parents and staff were crucial and they should be given time to adapt to the changes. Moreover, certain groups of children accessing more education within a school setting should also be considered. Lastly, to have adequate numbers of workforce available in order to assure those settings as safe as possible, and how to tackle with the challenges about keeping social distancing in the context of education or school transport issues should be taken into account.",
"query": "What was included in Kirsty Williams AM's explanation about five principles?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"6",
"6"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Sian Gwenllian AM introduced that according to the Welsh Government, currently 1 percent of the children of Wales and some 5 percent of the staff actually attended the schools. Kirsty Williams AM added that on average,there were 518 school hubs open each day, with up to 4,200 children attending. There has been an increase in the number of attendances since the summer term and there were approximately 5.6 per cent of the teaching population working in those hubs. The overall education situation seemed positive, with 600 vulnerable children averaging per day.",
"query": "What did the meeting talk about the current education situation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"20",
"22"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "To answer Sian Gwenllian AM's question, Kirsty Williams AM mentioned that to include more critical workers and vulnerable students, more local authorities had been advised to move to a hub model, and the education ministry office had been able to publish guidance to local authorities on how issues around safe working in those hubs should be followed. Local authorities are asked to report any incidents where they were concerned about operation issues on the ground. Kirsty Williams AM also agreed with Sian Gwenllian AM that testing was crucially important in dealing with this crisis and the ability to be able to test, to trace and to quarantine would be critical to the next phase.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams AM say about the education challenges as being faced by schools and the related methods to assure safety?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"24",
"28"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Dawn Bowden AM asked about the methods to include more vulnerable children to the hubs and to begin with, Kirsty Williams AM suggested that this challenge was faced by the four nations. The Welsh Government, together with local authorities and local education systems were looking to support families whose children had special education needs in a number of ways, including to decrease risks for hiring a social worker. Moreover, Dawn Bowden AM assumed that appropriate referral mechanisms should still be in place, which was agreed by Kirsty Williams AM who added that schools should remain in contact with children and continue to identify vulnerable children.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the impact on particular children with intense need?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"30",
"34"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams AM mentioned that those children would have currently been receiving school counselling, and there would be more children receiving support. In this case, the additional money will be made available to local authorities to be able to increase and ramp up services to support children and families with intense need. Moreover, how to adapt patterns to deliver these services to the pandemic situation would be discussed. For instance, video or telephone methods would be adopted and one to one basis help patterns would also be included to support professional learning for counsellings.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams AM react in response to help students with emotional and mental health difficulties?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"36",
"39"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As being questioned by Suzy Davies AM about continuing studies at home during the lockdown, Kirsty Williams AM suggested that educationalists and social services staff had really reached out to families and they intent to make sure that families with difficulties were aware of the support that was available out there for them and their children. Meanwhile, local authorities were encouraged to keep in contact with families to recognize their special needs for student education at home.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams AM suggest about keeping students studying at home?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"42",
"48"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams AM first introduced the difficult situation as being face by these group of children, whose educational journey would be slightly different with others. And it was always important that children could have an equal opportunity and have equal access to learning at this time. To tackle the challenge, Hwb digital learning platform had been heavily invested and the government had also invested heavily in the national purchasing of Microsoft Office and Google for Education tools, which were available to all families. Meanwhile, connection to the Internet would further be assured.",
"query": "How did Kirsty Williams AM plan to narrow the attainment gap between disadvantaged pupils and their more affluent peers?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"50",
"53"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams AM shared that the government were working closely with local authorities to understand what school had already done, for instance lending Chromebooks, iPads and laptops to children. Schools should make sure that students' access to current education patterns were available to all. Besides, nationwide purchase of digital learning tools, the government was also looking to purchase and distribute Mi-Fi connectivity on a national level. Last but not least, the government and local authorities were together continuing to identify education gap and decided to repurpose some of the resources which had been previously identified for the EdTech investment, using those resources to fill this particular gap.",
"query": "What did working with local authorities actually mean?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"60",
"61"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM asked about how A-level and GCSE would be awarded in alignment with Qualifications Wales and Kirsty Williams AM explained that to cancel this summer's exam series was the only clear decision although it was devastating for both students and teachers. Currently, to grade the performance, teachers would first be asked to submit a grade they believed that the student would have obtained, should they have taken an exam. And teachers would have a range of data and their own professional judgment when grading. Once that information had been submitted to Qualifications Wales, there would be a process by which that data would be moderated; moderated from centre to centre and across the nation.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams AM expect for new examinations and school qualifications?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"67",
"69"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "To get the students who planned to enter college for the next step, Kirsty Williams AM introduced that last week, on Hwb, they were able to launch a programme for year 13 students to help them get ready for university. On the Hwb website, students would be able to see the subject listings, everything from animal science through to law, politics, history and science, with links through to higher education and further education courses that students could avail themselves of. There was also a section on preparation for essential study skills, whether that was report writing or academic writing.Similar preparation like the help from career advice website was also accessible. Meanwhile, new materials and resources would be developed.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss to assure higher and further education?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"71",
"72"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Suzy Davies AM asked whether the money of the student support regime would decrease since students were currently studying at home at a much lower cost. Kirsty Williams AM made it clear that there would be no change on that, as the same amount of money would go to students' accounts as a way of assuring students' attendance and the family's confidence under the extreme situation.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the student support regime?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"79",
"83"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the first virtual meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I determine that the public are excluded from the committee's meeting, in order to protect public health. In accordance with Standing Order 34.21, notice of this decision was included in the agenda for this meeting, which was published last Friday. This meeting is, however, being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, with all participants joining via video conference. A record of the proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptation relating to conducting proceedings remotely, all other Standing Order requirements for committees remain in place. The meeting is bilingual, and simultaneous translation from Welsh to English is available. Can I remind all participants that the microphones will be controlled centrally, so there's no need to turn them on and off individually? Can I ask whether there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Can I just then, again, note for the record that, if, for any reason, I drop out of the meeting, the committee has agreed that Dawn Bowden AM will temporarily chair while I try to rejoin? Item 2, then, this afternoon is an evidence session with the Welsh Government on the impact of the coronavirus epidemic on education in Wales. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, Steve Davies, director of the education directorate, and Huw Morris, who is group director, skills, higher education and lifelong learning. Can I welcome you all and thank you for attending? Minister, I understand you'd like to make a short opening statement.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Lynne. And indeed, if I could just begin by, once again, putting on the record my gratitude to everyone who is helping us get through this pandemic. There are a vast number of people who are keeping our school hubs open, looking after vulnerable children, and the children of key workers. Because of them, and their efforts, those key workers are able to carry on their critical roles in responding to COVID-19. I am extremely proud of the way that members of the school community have gone above and beyond. They have kept their schools open out of hours, over the weekends, on bank holidays, and Easter. And it is really heartening and humbling to see the way that they have responded to this crisis. And there are teachers, teaching assistants, and many others, who are helping our children and their parents to keep learning at home. I know that home schooling isn't easy, so I want to say also thank you to parents and carers for their efforts at this time. By keeping their children at home, they are helping us to keep people safe, and reducing pressure on our education system, and on our NHS. Be in no doubt, we are facing many challenges because of this pandemic. My primary concern is, and always will be, the health and well-being of our children, of our young people, and of all the staff in our education settings. And I am very grateful to everyone who is supporting us in these endeavours. Thank you very much—diolch yn fawr. And I'm now happy to answer questions that members of the committee may have this afternoon.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Minister. I'm sure that the committee echoes the heartfelt thanks you have just given then. The first questions we've got this afternoon are from Hefin David.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Good afternoon, Minister. With regard to your five principles, which you've set out today, regarding when schools will reopen, they're very clear that they require a judgment from you. So could you outline when you think that schools might reopen?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Hefin. I am very clear that schools will move to a new phase—because, already, schools are open in many settings; we will move to a new phase when it is safe to do so and when I have advice from the chief medical officer and the chief scientific officer that it is safe to do so. I have made very clear in my statement that that is not imminent. I know that in some cases there has been speculation that a return to normal could be with us quite shortly. I'm clear that a return to normal is not imminent, and therefore I'm not in a position to give a date as to when we will see more schools opening up to more children.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Have you been given any indication at all by the chief medical officer as to when, in the longer term, it might be?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "No, I have not been given a date. What I have done today is publish the principles that will aid me in, as you said, me making a decision. So, clearly, we will be relying on the advice of our medical and scientific advisers, but the principles are very clear. Firstly, we will need to consider any decision to have more children returning to school in the context of the safety and the physical and the emotional well-being of children and young people and the staff. Obviously, I can't make a decision regarding education in isolation. It will have to be taken in the context of the wider Welsh Government response to dealing with this pandemic. Thirdly, it is absolutely crucial in making any decisions that we have clearly communicated that to parents and to staff, on the information that we have used to reach any decisions, to build confidence for parents and professionals, but also to give them time to plan. It will be impossible to move quickly to new ways of working. And we also have to look at—and it's been paraphrased quite a lot today—if we are looking at certain groups of children accessing more education within a school setting, which groups they should be. And, finally, how do we operationalise that? How do we make those settings as safe as they possibly can be, and how do we tackle some of the difficult challenges of everything from ensuring that we have adequate numbers of workforce available, to the very real questions about how you would do social distancing in the context of education, school transport issues, how you would avoid people gathering at the school gate, for instance? So, there are very practical issues that would need to be considered and thought through very, very carefully before we could return, before what we could see is a move from where we are now to the next phase of education, and new approaches to what schooling may look like. But, again, I must be absolutely clear to you, members of the committee, and to people watching: it is not feasible, in this sense, that we would move from where we are now to what all of us would regard as normal education and what the operation of schools looked like before the start of this pandemic.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, what is clear from what you've said is that it's going to be phased return. I would assume that would be the most vulnerable—perhaps additional learning needs pupils would return first. Just reading some of the things that you've said today, can you answer that question? And can I also ask: you said that guiding principle No. 3 will be having the confidence of parents, staff and students, based on evidence and information, so they can plan ahead. What will that evidence and information be, and how will you know that you've got the confidence of parents to return?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said, primarily, we will need to take a lead from our scientific and medical advisers. I want to also say that we are obviously working on a four-nation basis and keeping in very close contact with my counterparts in Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. But we're also looking beyond the United Kingdom to approaches to education in the face of this pandemic. Members are aware that we as a nation are a member of the Atlantic Rim Collaboratory. So, recently I was able to talk to educationalists and Ministers in Iceland, other parts of Europe, North America, South America and Australia. So, we're also looking at best international evidence in this regard. And, clearly, we will need to be very clear, as today is an attempt to be very clear with parents and our teaching professionals, and the unions that represent them, about the basis of that evidence.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And could I just ask, with regard to the principles, do they then apply to further education and universities?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, of course, when we are discussing these challenges, we are doing that with our colleagues in both the school sector but also our colleagues in the FE sector, and we're in close contact with colleagues in higher education to share thinking on these matters.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But these principles don't apply in those circumstances; these are principles for schools only.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "These principles are applying to both, and our work in this area is applying to both schools and FE colleges. Clearly, universities, as independent institutions, we wouldn't be able to dictate to. But I want to be absolutely clear: we are working with representatives of the HE sector to include them in this work. And I have received, not assurances, but from discussions that I've had with Universities Wales and vice-chancellors, they are very keen to be kept apprised of these approaches, because they may well wish to implement something similar within their own institutions.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I've got a couple of supplementaries now; firstly, from Suzy Davies, and then I'm going to go to Siân Gwenllian. Suzy. No, we can't hear Suzy. Suzy? No. I'll go to Siân, then, and then I'll come back to Suzy. Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Chair, I don't think my microphone is muted.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I'll move on to my question to Kirsty Williams. Now, it is clear that any decisions that need to be taken on reopening schools would have to be made in the context of all of the other issues that the Welsh Government has to take into account. And it is entirely clear that the approach of Government towards testing hasn't been sufficiently developed for us to even start to think about removing restrictions. So, wouldn't it be dangerous, if truth be told, to start to discuss reopening schools when we haven't had the necessary testing in place for the majority of the population? And doesn't it convey a mixed message that we're starting to relax some of these restrictions when, in reality, the restrictions are still in place and still need to be in place robustly?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "First of all, thank you very much, Siân, for that important question. Can I be absolutely clear, and I thought I had been pretty clear in answering Hefin David, that we are not relaxing any of the restrictions with regard to education? As I said to Hefin, it is not imminent that we would see a further phase in the next stage of education here in Wales. What I have done today is to provide clarity on the nature of the principles that I would use when coming to any discussion. It is the responsibility of me, as the Minister, and indeed of the wider Government, to begin to think about planning for the future. But I have been absolutely clear: we are not moving to an imminent change in how education is operating at the moment. And I'm also very, very clear that should we be given the opportunity to see more children in our schools, I will only do that when it is safe for me to do so, when I've been advised by the CMO that I am able to do that, and we have given sufficient time and planning to the sector to respond. It is not going to be easy, and we will need to give them, as a sector, time to be able to address. But if I have not been clear enough, let me say it again: we are not relaxing any issues around schools at present, nor is that imminent.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Suzy, I think we can try going to you again now.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Minister, in your consideration of introducing a phased return to school, in due course, have you taken into consideration how things like school absences are going to be managed? Because, regardless of the amount of good work you do on messaging, there will still be some families that don't realise that going back to school is for their particular family. Will there be a relaxation of, effectively, what we would call truancy rules? Or is that something that schools will be getting guidance on much up-front?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Suzy. As I said in my statement earlier today, returning to school will not be a return to normal, and in recognition of this, I've already made it clear that I will seek, in all opportunities, to reduce the burdens on school. That includes various data collection, the suspension of performance measures and removing the requirement to undertake literacy and numeracy testing, and, clearly, school attendance will want to be an important factor of that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. I'm keen to go on now to talk about the current situation as being faced by our children and young people in schools with some questions from Siân Gwenllian. Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Since yesterday, the Welsh Government has started publishing data on the number of schools that are open, the number of children attending those schools, and the number of staff involved, and they have been making this information available as per capita of the population. On average, I think it's 1 per cent of the children of Wales that actually attend these locations, and some 5 per cent of the staff. So, can you analyse those figures a little further? Can you tell us how many children, according to this data, are children of key workers, and how many are vulnerable children?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Siân. As you quite rightly say, on average, we have 518 school hubs open each day, with up to 4,200 children attending. We have seen an increase in the number of attendances since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term. We have approximately 5.6 per cent of the teaching population working in those hubs, and at present, 85 per cent of the children who are attending are the children of key workers, the remainder being vulnerable children. So, we are now averaging 600 vulnerable children per day. These are small numbers, but we have seen an increase in those numbers since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I'm sure we'll return to that point a little later on. How much confidence do you therefore have that the arrangements are effective in terms of the safety of staff and children at these locations?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you once again for that. The smooth operation of the hubs, with regard to health and safety, is, of course, of paramount importance. What we have seen since schools closed for traditional statutory purposes and moving to their repurposed function—we have seen a change of pattern over time. So, following my announcement on, I believe, 18 March, the week after, we saw a large number of settings open and operating. As local authorities have been able to understand the demand for those places—from critical workers and vulnerable children—we have seen more local authorities move to a hub model, and we have been able to publish guidance to local authorities on how issues around safe working in those hubs should be followed, and we've been able to give guidance in that regard. Local authorities are asked by us to report any incidents where they are concerned about operation issues on the ground.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "As I mentioned earlier, testing is crucially important in dealing with this crisis. So, how many school staff have been tested for COVID because they may have experienced symptoms and so on? And how many of those have tested positive?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "My understanding from Public Health Wales is that 15 teachers have been tested for COVID-19, and I believe two of those results have come back as positive. Can I make it absolutely clear, the week before last, Welsh Government issued new guidance around who should be tested? I want to make it absolutely clear to those professionals working in our hubs, if they or a member of their family are exhibiting any of the symptoms, however mild, of COVID-19, they can and they should be tested.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And the final question from me on this: how important is testing going to be in this next phase, as you start to think about relaxing restrictions?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Obviously, the ability to be able to test, to trace and to quarantine will be critical to the next phase and will be a very, very important and significant building block in all aspects of the Government's work to respond to this pandemic.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Siân. We've got some questions now on the impact on particular groups of children, from Dawn Bowden.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Just following on from your answer to Siân Gwenllian earlier about the number of vulnerable children in school, what's being done specifically to facilitate more of those children coming into a school setting or hub at the moment? I'm thinking about the 600 you've talked about, and I know, in one of my local authority areas of Merthyr, which is a very small authority, we're talking about the number of children identified as vulnerable running into thousands, not hundreds, and that's just in one authority. So, this is a particularly difficult issue to address, I appreciate, but how are we going to get more of these children into the hubs?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, Dawn. The first thing to say is that the issue of vulnerable children attending settings is one that is a challenge to not just Wales, but also to my colleagues in Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. I'm pleased to say that we are working across Government departments—myself, obviously, and colleagues in education—with colleagues in social services to have a cross-Government approach to these issues. I think the first thing to say is that these are complex messages, because the overriding public health message from our Government has been to stay at home and children should be kept at home as much as possible, and to make sure that our hubs run smoothly, safely and effectively, we do need to limit the number of children who are attending those hubs. So, firstly, the fact that numbers are small is in some ways a success of our public health messages, because parents have been heeding those messages, but, of course, all of us will have concerns for some children who remain at home. So, I'm pleased to say that we have seen a doubling in the last week of the number of children. So, although numbers are small, they have doubled over the course of the last week. We're working with local authorities and they have assured us that children and young people with a social worker have been risk assessed on a multi-agency basis and are receiving support in a number of ways, and that includes having conversations about some of those children attending the hubs. They're also looking to support in other ways. Of course, some of our children who would be classed as vulnerable—and our definition of 'vulnerable' is one that is shared between the systems in England and Wales—could be children with a statement of special educational needs. For some of those children who, perhaps, have very intense health needs, actually, staying at home is the appropriate thing for that child and that family to do, and we're looking to support families, and local authorities and local education systems are looking to support families, in a number of ways. We also know that just because you don't have a social worker or a statement of special educational needs does not mean that a child may not be vulnerable, and schools are very aware of the needs of those children and have been carrying out regular telephone check-ins where they can—if the age of the child is appropriate—just to keep in touch with those families and those individual children. But we will continue to work across Government to encourage, where it is appropriate, children to attend settings, and, if it is not appropriate for children to be in a setting, that there is contact with those children and young people to ensure that they remain, and their families remain, supported.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Minister. It's encouraging to hear you talk about the ongoing safeguarding of children that are at home and I assume, within that, appropriate referral mechanisms are still in place if teachers or anybody has any particular concern about a child. Similarly, with special educational needs, whereas some of those children benefit clearly from a one-to-one provision in a school, and they may not respond as well to remote working, or remote contact, with an SEN advisor, are you considering in any way any relaxation of the lockdown rule in particular for those children in terms of them being able to access the support that they need for their particular educational needs?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, first of all, Dawn, you're absolutely right: my expectation is that schools should remain in contact with children and continue to identify vulnerable children, and schools should continue to refer children to children's services if they have any concerns, and that would also, of course, be the case for youth workers who may be keeping in contact with children. So, there is a professional expectation on all those that are working with our children and young people that, despite the circumstances they find themselves in, they should continue to report and refer cases if they see anything or hear or are told anything that makes them concerned about a child's welfare and safety. With regard to children with additional learning needs, I am aware that that can present a number of challenges to families and children, and perhaps Steve Davies could give some further details. We have been keen to work with local authorities to ensure specialist provision, where that is appropriate—so, if I could give you an example of my own local authority in Powys, they have two specialist centres available for children with more profound additional learning needs, and those centres are available—recognising, however, that, even with the provision of specialist hubs, it can be a challenge for some children with additional learning needs to find themselves outside of a routine. Hubs are often staffed on a rota basis and therefore children could be faced with staff that they are unfamiliar with. So, even when local authorities—and the vast, vast majority of them do—have specialist services in place, sometimes that might not be the best thing for a child's health and well-being. But perhaps Steve can give us further details of the conversations that have been taking place with directors of education to ensure that children with additional learning needs have access to the hubs and specialist support. Steve.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, myself and colleague Albert Heaney—colleague-director—have been in regular touch with directors of education and directors of social services to make sure that these children and young people's needs are catered for. We are very aware of all of the special schools—profound and multiple learning difficulties, EBD schools and pupil referral units—that have been kept open in their own way, but also, in some cases, as hubs, to deliver those services for those children's needs, and we're pleased that the directors and the local authorities have responded so constructively. So, we have the details of every school that's open, the pupils who are attending, and we are clear that the risk assessments that the Minister referred to for children with special needs, as well as wider vulnerable groups—they are having risk assessments to make sure that, where there is a need identified for a pupil that is not currently attending a hub, then the local authority can be working with that child and with the parents.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Steve. Dawn.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Just two more questions. One is around emotional and mental health difficulties being experienced by children and young people at the moment. Now, there was a very welcome announcement of £1.25 million pounds for school counselling. How is that, in practical terms, being applied if those children are not actually in school?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "You're right, Dawn: we have to consider how we can support children not only in their learning during this time, but also to recognise the very real impact that the pandemic will have on all of our mental health and well-being—recognising, of course, it is absolutely natural for all of us, including children and young people, to have fears and anxieties at this time. That's a natural reaction to the situation that we find ourselves in. But, of course, there are issues around those children that would have currently been receiving school counselling, and also being able to be in a position to respond to a potential growth in the number of children that are receiving support. So, the additional money will be made available to local authorities to be able to increase and ramp up services to support children and families. In the immediacy, of course, that will have to be done in different ways than perhaps we've traditionally delivered services in the past, because of social distancing and lockdown rules, but we want to get some of these systems in place now, rather than waiting for everything to go back to normal. We need to be able to plan to offer services in the here and now, but also be able to plan for what potentially could be an increase in the demand of those services. So, we've been in close touch with local authorities, asking them what they believe that they will need and how they can use additional financial resources, and we've been very pleased to be able to secure that for them.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, that would include things like telephone and video support as well, I guess, then.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, absolutely. So, that would include remote counselling as in a fashion that we're doing now, but also, as and when some of the restrictions are perhaps removed, looking at an enhanced family therapy, or a therapy approach. So, when we talk about counselling, I think it's important to recognise that there will be some flexibility around this money and it does not necessarily mean that local authorities have to use it on a one-to-one basis. That might not be appropriate for some children, especially our younger children and their families, and they can use that money to provide counselling or therapy—in the widest possible terms—that is the best method to support individual children and their families. But, clearly, we're having to do that in the confines of lockdown and social distancing at the moment. Some of that money can also be used to support the professional learning and the professional development of counsellors, because, of course, they may be being asked to work in a different way and we need to make sure that they have the appropriate skills and abilities to do that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Thank you, Minister.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Dawn, before you ask your final question, I've got a couple of supplementaries—firstly from Suzy, and then from Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, thank you. My question goes back to the comment you made earlier, Minister, about the number of children doubling—sorry, vulnerable children doubling—after the Easter break, if we can call it that. So, what I'm after is a sense of churn in these establishments. So, was that figure a recovery of a number of children that had been there before the Easter break, and are the people who are there still the same people as were there right at the beginning of the crisis and the lockdown?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Suzy, what I believe that we're seeing in our schools is new pupils coming into school. So, there has been, I know, a real effort on behalf of educationalists and social services staff to really reach out to families and to make sure that they're aware of the support that is available out there for them and their children, and to be able to give them the confidence that there are—that the hubs are available for them. So, we have seen an increase in children. Those numbers are still small and, I believe, potentially, there is an opportunity to build on that and to have further conversations with families about the support that is available for vulnerable children, whether that—. That vulnerability, of course, can cover a whole range of issues. As I said when we last met, this is a constantly evolving situation. The initial response—local authorities and schools worked incredibly fast and incredibly quickly to set up these hubs. We've seen an evolution in the weeks since that time and I am sure that we will continue to see some evolution in approaches.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Hefin, you had a supplementary—briefly, please.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, very quickly. I've been listening to the answers with regard to vulnerable children, following on from that answer. I'm at home with a vulnerable child—a child who has got additional learning needs. She's got autism; she's four. I imagine there are many, many parents in exactly the same position—I've heard from them. I haven't heard anything from the school or from the local authority. Should I have heard something or should I be proactive in pursuing it?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't want to comment on personal cases—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But there are many others in this position.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "—but what I would say is that if parents have concerns and want to have a conversation about what support is available to them and their children, they should contact their local education authority to have a conversation as to what support is available.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Dawn, final question, please.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, my last question is really about the potential for the attainment gap between disadvantaged pupils and their more affluent peers. Is that a concern for you? I'm thinking particularly in relation to those less affluent families in having access to technology and so on. What kind of concerns do you have about that and what are we looking to do to try to ensure that that doesn't actually play out?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Dawn. All of the statistics would tell us that learning loss and the gap, potentially, will affect those more vulnerable children the most. Clearly, we will want to consider that as we think about what the new normal for education may look like, or as we develop into future phases. Depending on where that child is in their educational journey, of course, the needs and the potential for loss are slightly different. So, for instance, when we're thinking about very young children, we could be thinking about a lack of social interaction and the development of oracy skills. Of course, that, potentially, then will have a knock-on to their ability to learn to read and then to write, for instance. For other children who are, perhaps, older and heading towards formal examinations, the challenge when they return to school will be a slightly different one. I'm not sure, Chair, whether you want me to give some further details about our continuity-of-learning plan and how we are looking to address digital disadvantage now, or whether there are questions later.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I've got a question on that coming up, so, if it's okay, Dawn, we'll go on to that now. Before we do that, I was just going to ask how the Welsh Government is paying due regard to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and, obviously, the right children and young people have to an education. I was going to ask you about the risk of inequality due to varying access to digital resources, which are so important in ensuring continuity of learning.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "You're absolutely correct, Chair. Officials are very aware of our responsibilities towards children's rights in this regard and we are doing whatever we can to ensure that children have an equal opportunity and have equal access to learning at this time. We are fortunate in the regard that, because of previous decisions and investments, we have a strong base on which to build because we have our Hwb digital learning platform and because we have invested heavily in the national purchasing of Microsoft Office and Google for Education tools, which are available to all families. We have become the first, I think—we're certainly the first in the UK, and I'm not sure whether we're the first across the world, but I think we probably are—to deploy, for instance, Adobe Spark nationally. But, obviously, access to hardware and connectivity is crucial at this time. Officials are working with local authorities to ensure that all children have access to both the hardware and the connectivity they need to be able to participate in digital learning at this particular time.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Just a final question from me: how exactly are we communicating to parents what the expectations are of them in terms of delivering this education at home now? Are there, for example, guidelines on recommended hours of home learning per day of the week or volume of work to be completed? How are we ensuring that parents know how best to lead their children through this at the moment?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Firstly, can I recognise what a challenge this is? We've just heard from Hefin who is carrying on his day job as the Assembly Member, but is obviously trying to do that as well as care for and provide learning for his children, and I know, Chair, that you're doing the same, and I'm certainly trying to do the same, and it's a real challenge, it's not easy. As part of our 'Stay Safe. Stay Learning' policy statement, advice is available to parents and carers on the Hwb platform as to what they best can do to support their children. I think the really important message that I've been trying to give to parents is not to be too hard on ourselves. I know that everybody is doing the best that they can in really challenging circumstances. And if they have concerns, they should be in contact with their child's school, but we do have specific advice and guidance to parents on the Hwb platform.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We're going to move on now to some questions on examinations from Janet Finch-Saunders. Janet, we can't hear you. I tell you what, we'll—. Janet, do you want to try again? No. Okay, we'll go on then to questions on higher education and post 16, and we'll come back to examinations, if that's okay. Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, thank you, Chair. Before we leave continuity of learning, do you mind if I just ask this one question?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "No, that's fine. Yes, go on.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Your comment, Minister, on working with local authorities to make sure that individuals have hardware: can you just give us a bit of detail on what working with local authorities actually means? In the process of that, is there any data gathering going on for those pupils who are being educated at home and the levels at which they're engaging? You know, are they sticking with it, or how many are dropping out? Because I think the two of those perhaps go together.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, absolutely. So, I'm hoping to make an announcement tomorrow, if not later on this week, about some specific details around support for hardware and connectivity. We're working closely with local authorities to understand just that: to understand from the schools the number of schools that—and a number of them have already done this—have been lending Chromebooks, iPads and laptops to children, and also identifying children who are not perhaps engaging in the activities that have been made available. And we'll be doing two things to support local authorities. The first is to use the stock of equipment that they already have to be able to provide hardware to students. So, we have purchased on a national basis software that, when applied to an old piece of kit, essentially turns it into an out-of-the-box Chromebook. Because, as you can imagine, just like other things during a pandemic, there has been a rush to buy new stuff on the market and then there is a scramble and nobody can get what they need. So, we're utilisng kit that is already available in schools and local authorities, and we will look to backfill that to schools at a later point out of our EdTech investment programme. The other issue is, once a child has a Chromebook or a laptop or a device, issues around connectivity. So, we're also looking to purchase on a national level and distribute Mi-Fi connectivity, so students will be able to have access to Wi-Fi where they don't have that already. That's why we need to work closely with local authorities and schools to identify the level of that need and to make sure the stuff gets to the right children. One of the ways in which we are able to do that is to look at engagement in education. So, if a child hasn't been engaging, is that because they just don't want to and they're voting with their feet—but clearly teachers need to have a conversation about that—or is that because the child simply does not have the ability to do that, and therefore we need to get that stuff out to those children? So, rather than just simply leaving it to local authorities to scramble around in a very crowded market to get the stuff that they will need, we're trying to do that on a national basis and deploy that to local authorities. So, our officials have been having conversations with each of our local authorities to ascertain what's already happened, and there is very good practice out there—schools have been proactive—but where there are gaps, what can we do as a national Government to be able to assist them to do that? We are repurposing some of the resources that we had previously identified for our EdTech investment, using those resources to fill this particular gap.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. We're going to go back to Janet now. I believe we've got sound again, so Janet can ask her questions on examinations. Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I thought it was something at this end; I'm glad to hear it wasn't. When will vocational learners know what is happening with their assessments, and how will those who have no choice but to wait for a vocational assessment be supported?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. That's a very good question, Janet, because I know that there has been some concern and anxiety around vocational qualification students and how quickly we've been able to provide certainty for them. You'll be aware that Qualifications Wales have been able, in the last week, to be able to give that greater clarity. So, they have announced that learners due to complete their Essential Skills Wales qualifications will receive results. They have also published their approach to how health and social care qualifications will be managed, because, of course, those are part of the first set of reformed quals that we have done on a Wales basis. You are right, there are a group of students who fall into the category where there are technical qualifications that require a certificate of competency to be industry ready—I hope I've explained that correctly—and, therefore, we are working to understand how we can accommodate those students in these particular circumstances. But, at this stage, there may be some delay for that element of their qualification being delayed to a further date.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. What are your expectations for how A-level and GCSE qualifications will be awarded this summer, following the ministerial direction that you have issued to Qualifications Wales? For example, how is an appropriate balance being taken between recognising the progress of pupils in their coursework, mock examinations, and other work to date, and also, the potential of pupils who might have performed particularly well in their examinations this summer?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, Janet, I understand—and today is a day where some students would have been undertaking practical examinations—I understand how devastating it has been to both students and teachers alike for the decision I had to take to cancel this summer's exam series. But I'm absolutely clear that was the only decision that could have been reached. Qualifications Wales has made it very clear—and for people who would like more information, I would urge them to look at Qualifications Wales's website—how they will go about giving, allocating, and awarding a grade to our A-level and GCSE students. Firstly, teachers will be asked to submit a grade they believe that student would have obtained, should they have taken an exam. And, of course, teachers will have a range of data and their own professional judgment that they will use in awarding that grade. Teachers will also be asked to rank students in order. Once that information has been submitted to Qualifications Wales, there will be a process by which that data will be moderated; moderated from centre to centre and across the nation, thus giving us the chance to award a student a fair grade whilst being, and remaining, true to ensuring that we have a robust qualifications system, and allowing those students who find themselves at a critical stage of their education, where they are looking to move on to the next stages—that they will have the grades that will allow them to make decisions about their future.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Janet. We're going to go on now, then, to the questions on higher and further education from Suzy Davies. Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. I suppose my first question just goes back to the 16-year-olds at the moment and those who are looking forward to either going to college, the older ones going to university, there'll be apprenticeships, all kinds of future pathways for post 16. What's happening at school level, or even at college level, to get those students ready for the next steps, because, obviously, they're not in their usual environments and getting their usual programme of teaching?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "No, that's quite right, Suzy, and I should have said in answer to Janet's question, as well—I'm sure people already know, but just to get the point across—that A-level results day and GCSE day will run as normal across not just Wales, but England, Wales and Northern Ireland, which is really important. You're right, Suzy—for those people that are coming to the end of one part of their education this is a particularly challenging time. You'll be aware that, last week, on Hwb, we were able to launch a programme for year 13 students to help them get ready for university. I'm very grateful to the HE sector in Wales, who've worked really hard with us on that. So, for instance, if you were a year 13 student or even a year 12 student that was thinking about or interested in areas around social policy, you could have tuned into a social policy lecturer at Swansea University. If you go to the Hwb website, you will be able to see that there are subject listings, everything from animal science through to law, politics, history and science, with links through to higher education and further education courses that students can avail themselves of. There's also a section on preparation for essential study skills, whether that is report writing or academic writing. So, there is a range of activities and courses available for year 13, so that children—'children'; they're all children to me—young people can get themselves—. They don't have to stop learning, and they can get themselves ready for the next stage of their education. Again, for those children, perhaps, who are coming to the end of their GCSEs, there is a range of information, either within their own schools or within their local colleges about things that can keep them learning. So, for instance, I'm aware of one school where you can go onto the website and there are recommendations of, for instance, what you could be reading over the summer if you're interested in doing this particular A-level in September. I know that there are also moves in schools and in colleges to be able to make sure that those children don't miss out on really important careers advice at this time, as well, and information, so they can make informed decisions. I know that people are working hard to link up children to advice services that are available so that they can make those really important future decisions with the advice of either a teacher or other professional so that they've got those options. So, there is material out there and it's growing all the time. This week, we were able to launch our virtual Seren network. You'll be aware that, for the last couple of years, we've been able to send Welsh children to the Yale global summer school. Clearly, that can't happen this year. That's devastating for those year 12s who had worked so hard and had won a place on that programme. They will now be able to attend the Yale global scholars programme virtually and remotely, because Yale have moved that programme online. So, we're developing materials and resources all of the time.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that answer. Before I move on to my next question, can you give me some sort of sense of how that Hwb domain is being populated? Where is all this information being sourced from? Presumably, they'll be working with partners, but what does that look like?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, my goodness. Yes, absolutely—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "[Inaudible.]",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we're working very hard. So, everything from our work with the BBC, for instance, and BBC Bitesize through to our FE colleges and our HE institutions, as well as other organisations in the third sector who are looking to provide those opportunities. Can I just say that, last week, we were looking at, every day, in the region of well over 150,000 logins a day into Hwb?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, that's great. So there's proactive populating of Hwb. That's what I was after. That's great. Just going back to some of Janet's questions and the assessed grades, I want to talk to you about the unconditional offers and where we are with that at the moment for entry to universities, because there's going to be a scramble now of the available students for further education, but primarily higher education institutions, across the UK. Is the moratorium on unconditional offers still standing? Are there conversations going on to extend that moratorium? Otherwise, this scramble is going to potentially negatively affect our universities quite considerably.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, you'll be aware that a moratorium does exist. It exists in this current context to 1 May. We continue to keep in close touch with colleagues in Northern Ireland, Scotland and in the Westminster Government around these issues. Officials are also in touch with UCAS, and in the last couple of days I've had at least three meetings with representatives of the Welsh higher education sector to discuss these matters.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I just want to ask you now about students and their maintenance loan grants. I think they're getting, around now, the money going into their bank account that they would normally have expected at this time of year. That's right, yes?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "That's correct, yes.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "What's happening to those students who would normally be living in digs somewhere but are now living at home? Are they likely to be asked to reimburse part of the cost, because obviously it's not as expensive to live at home as away, and what's likely to be happening with the maintenance loans over the summer holiday period, potentially? Because we've had a period now where students can't top up their maintenance loans by going out and working on weekends or working in the evenings, or whatever, so their income has been impacted. Just in the round, what kind of conversations are happening around that? Again, it's probably a four-nation approach, I would imagine.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Suzy. You are correct to say that our student support regime does allow for a lower payment to be made to those students that stay at home during their studies, but I want to reassure students that there will be no change to their student support payments just because they have left their universities and have decided to go home. There should be no change. Also, we are continuing, it should be important to say, to pay education maintenance allowance at this time for our FE students that are eligible for that, even though, obviously, for EMA there is an attendance requirement, but clearly that is not appropriate to enforce at the moment. You are correct—this is a worrying time for many students in higher education, especially for those who are looking to graduate at this time and are going out into an economy that has been tremendously badly hit by the pandemic. At this time, we continue to have conversations with NUS Wales about what can be done within a Welsh context, but, as you quite rightly say, also within a UK context, to support students who may have been affected. We are continuing—on our webpage we have a frequently asked questions section that advises students in the first instance, especially when it comes, for instance, to the cost of accommodation—to have those discussions, and I'm very grateful that, in some cases, some of our institutions have been able to waive or partially waive accommodation fees where students have vacated their accommodation and have returned to their usual home address. But we will continue to have dialogue with NUS Wales and with our counterparts across the country to look to see what more we can do to support students at this time.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that answer, and, yes, I was pleased to see that announcement through the NUS as well, so well done to those accommodation providers who have a heart. I think we'll all have seen the Universities UK document that explains some of the difficulties that they're going to be running into if this proceeds much further. My understanding is that the main emphasis at the moment is to try and get all the universities across the UK through this initial period of difficulty by releasing as much money as possible. I can see that your figure to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales was a little bit down on last year's letter—not that there's been a remit letter yet, but an indication. Are you releasing that money earlier so that they can use it more swiftly, or does that not matter?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Before you come in, Minister, that is going to have to be the last question, just to make you aware of that, because we are coming up to the end of our time.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. That's fine.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Of course, Suzy, we are working closely with Universities Wales and have a lot of sympathy for the proposals that have come forward from Universities UK, which Wales's universities have been a part of forming. Stability in the first instance is really important to us, which is why we've been able to give an indication to HEFCW about resources that are available, and we've been very clear to HEFCW that we want to be as flexible as possible in how they use those resources to support institutions. That potentially would mean reprofiling the way in which money gets out to institutions, but clearly we will need to have an ongoing discussion about how we respond to the immediacy of the issues facing HE, how we can get stability for the next academic year, and how we then can support the sector through what is a really challenging time for them. We will do that in a Welsh context and we will continue to do that also in a UK context, because you will have seen the scale of some of the figures that have been talked about in terms of the impact on the HE sector at this time. Clearly, a four-nation approach to that will be crucial.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. Well, we have come to the end of our time, and, as to anything that we didn't ask, we will have to write to the Minister. Can I just thank the Minister and her officials for your attendance today? We know how busy you are dealing with the pandemic and we very much welcome this opportunity to have this discussion with you. So, thank you, Minister and officials for your time. As usual, you will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. Diolch yn fawr.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Diolch yn fawr, Chair.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Item 3, then. Can I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting? Are Members content? Okay. I see that Members are content, so we will now proceed to meet in private.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_11 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"3"
],
[
"14",
"15"
]
],
"topic": "Programme's progress and shortages"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"4",
"13"
]
],
"topic": "Early help and enhanced support"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"19"
]
],
"topic": "Consistent services for young people"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"20",
"35"
]
],
"topic": "Neurodevelopmental service"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"36",
"55"
]
],
"topic": "In-patient care and workforce"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"64",
"71"
]
],
"topic": "Looked-after children and transitional arrangements"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"72",
"96"
]
],
"topic": "Programme's legacy"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This was the Children, Young People and Education committee, guided by Lynne Neagle. The whole meeting was in the quiz form, in which Carol Shillabeer, the chief executive of Powys Teaching Health Board, answered questions about the Together for Children and Young People programme. To begin with, Shillabeer responded to the progress and shortages of the whole programme, followed by the theme of early help and enhanced support for children and young people. The next topic was the CAMHS framework and its effect in promoting a consistent delivery of care. Furthermore, Shillabeer answered questions about neurodevelopmental services, in-patient care, the workforce issue, looked-after children, and transitional arrangement. In the end, Shillabeer indicated the personal position of legacy that there would be something to handle those problems, no matter what it was.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The Mental Health Measure's target had increased significantly among the UK. The programme well met the demand with more contacts, more staff, and shorter access times, but it still did not completely sustain at that stage. As for intervention resources, there had been good attempts to help. As for the stakeholder workshop, it was successful support on early help and enhanced support. Finally, as for the legacy arrangements, CAMHS element would move to CAMHS network, part of the NHS mental health network.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about early help and enhanced support.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"4",
"13"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The specialist CAMHS element would move to the CAMHS network. The whole-school approach had already been settled in the Government while the programme had constructed a relative connection.",
"query": "What did Carol Shillabeer think about the legacy arrangements when talking about early help and enhanced support?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"9",
"12"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The workshop brought all the agencies together, along with their demands and interests. Furthermore, there was a planning group reflection for the next stage to which three commitments had been made. First, values-led approaches were to be developed to bring multiple agencies together to have a common purpose. The second was to develop ingredients for successful working. The third was to determine the priorities of the next step.",
"query": "What were the outcomes of stakeholder workshops on early help?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"9",
"12"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "In terms of an increase in neurodevelopmental referrals, Hefin David wanted to know its reasons and measures. Carol Shillabeer responded with no specific idea for the reasons and an introduction of delivery progression for the measures. Being asked, Carol then talked about a broader view of group work, mentioning the limitation of threshold and focused conditions.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about neurodevelopmental service.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"20",
"35"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Carol Shillabeer introduced Dr. Cath Norton and his group which had a standing start in addressing neurodevelopmental issues under the programme. There had been seven teams across Wales, a national pathway, and a community-of-practice-type environment.",
"query": "What did Carol Shillabeer think about how to meet the capacity to deliver when answering a question about neurodevelopmental service?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"21",
"22"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "There would be only 40 per cent to 50 per cent of families met a threshold for the support, while more people still needed help. Therefore, focusing on the families who reached a threshold is not good enough, and the programme should tackle all of them.",
"query": "What did Carol Shillabeer find unexpected when talking about neurodevelopmental service?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"27",
"30"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Carol Shillabeer answered Lynne Neagle's question by introducing the progress of the in-patient care programme and the challenge of the workforce. Carol personally recommended employing more psychology assistants as part of a skill mix team and indicated communities of practice to make the best use of the resource. Finally, as for the language, there was an agreement on the use of the Welsh language and the need for enough Welsh language practitioners to respond to vulnerable people.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about in-patient care and workforce.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"36",
"55"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The most important at that time was the long-term work between health and social care in terms of having a much more integrated and joined-up approach for children.",
"query": "What did Carol Dhillabeer think about the most important part of the work of in-patient care at that time?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"36",
"37"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The practice was guided by the Nation Institute for Health and Care, enabling referrals to match the right practitioner and the right service. It is expected to be more flexible and careful to use the resource. Overall, the community had gradually become standard, doing a collective reflection on service improvement and being clear about mutual learning, but the environment operated still waited to be improved.",
"query": "What did Carol Dhillabeer think about the community of practice when talking about workforce?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"49",
"52"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Carol Shillabeer answered a question from Suzy Davies, indicating the intersection between the Together for Children and Young People programme and the Outcomes for Children Group programme. Next, in response to Dawn Bowden, Shillabeer talked about the development of transition guidance and the endeavor to reduce the numbers of transitions and manage them better.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about looked-after children and transitional-arrangement.",
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"answer": "First, there was a close link between each member. Second, in terms of the question of specialist CAMHS in-patients, there was a need to bring the services together for stronger working.",
"query": "What did Carol Shillabeer think about the reasons that brought the programme to intersect with the outcomes for children when talking about looked-after children?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"56",
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"answer": "The guidance was developed and the programme was in the process of evaluation. However, there was still further work to do in terms of audit, making sure to get a systematic approach to deal with those who hadn't had the guidance fully implemented.",
"query": "What did Carol Dhillabeer think about the development of transition guidance when talking about transitional arrangement?",
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{
"content": "Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Children, Young People and Education committee this morning. We've received apologies for absence from Siân Gwenllian and there is no substitute this morning. Can I ask if Members have got any declarations of interest they'd like to make, please? No? Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning, then, is a further session on our follow-up on our 'Mind over matter' report. I'm very pleased to welcome Carol Shillabeer, who is chief executive of Powys Teaching Health Board, and who manages the Together for Children and Young People programme. Thank you very much for attending, and thank you for the written update that you provided in advance to the committee. We've got a lot of ground that we want to cover this morning, so if it's okay we'll go straight into questions. If I can just start and ask you if you're satisfied with the progress that's been made since the programme was established in 2015.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much for that question, Chair. I've got to say 'yes', in many regards. So, the key focus of the programme in the early stages was about improving access to specialist child and adolescent mental health services. We developed the windscreen model—or we lifted the windscreen model. Other models that are very similar have been talked about as well, and our big focus was on ensuring that we could make immediate progress around access to specialist CAMHS. It's some years ago now since this committee did the original report, and obviously Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and the Wales Audit Office had done reports in the past, and I think there was a need for a programme that could focus on action. You'll see in the written update that we covered quite a large number of areas, and so therefore had to make a prioritisation. The prioritisation was at the specialist CAMHS end. We have provided the committee with a red, amber or green rating of where we feel that we were, and that was just before submission of the evidence. Overall I would say we have made progress. I recognise you recognise that in your 'Mind over matter' report, and that is pleasing. What I would say, though, is that there's a still a lot to be done. Certainly over the last nine months or so, we've seen a real momentum around the whole-school approach work, which we're not actually leading now as a programme, although we facilitated the workshop held in September. But that's got a real momentum, and the absolute priority now is the early help and enhanced support part of the work moving forward, and I'm sure we will come on to that in more detail. But we know there is more community workforce in specialist CAMHS, we know we're seeing children in a shorter time frame, and we know we're accepting more referrals, so our indicators are telling us we are making progress.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. And you referred to the work on the whole-school approach, which is very welcome, and I recognise that the programme has been involved in driving that as well. But I'm sure you'll also recognise the emphasis that the committee has placed on this being a whole-system approach to children and young people's mental health, and we feel very strongly that if any of the areas get out of balance, then it will jeopardise the progress in other parts of the programme. Are there any particular areas where you feel you haven't made enough progress that you'd like to draw the committee's attention to?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "This is maybe about what the programme's done, but really around the broader sense as well. I'm going to be very straight and say we should have made more progress on psychological therapies. I'm disappointed that we haven't. I'm assured that we've got capacity in place now and the drive in place to get the Matrics Cymru framework developed for children and young people. I've had discussions with the national psychological therapies committee, who have owned this, and we're working together more on this area. That's not to say for one minute that health boards and local areas haven't been working on psychological therapy service provision and changing the models, but that is an area we should have made, I think, earlier progress on. There's been a general reflection from myself and the Together for Children and Young People programme board over the phase of the programme. I think we started very strongly; I think we probably had a bit of a lull in the middle, if I'm truthful about that—we had a change of personnel, and we really gathered a momentum over the last year or 18 months, and that has helped to push us from a focus on specialist CAMHS into that whole-school approach. But, if I could just agree with your comments about the whole system, it has to be the whole system and that's why the real focus now on early help and enhanced support is critical. If I can just say, in case I don't get a chance to say this later, I was delighted to see the focus on youth work yesterday, because what is clear is for that part, the early help and enhanced support, this isn't just about the NHS and it's not just about education, it's about every part of the system, really, which does make it more complex. But I just wanted to say that I think that youth work has perhaps not have the recognition that it's needed and yesterday was a positive step.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We've got some questions now on early help and enhanced support from Janet Finch-Saunders.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Good morning. In terms of local primary mental health support services, what is your understanding of the issues leading to some health boards not meeting the Mental Health (Wales) Measure 2010 targets for assessment and therapy for children and young people, and how much of this is due to an increase in demand?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, thanks very much. So, it's important to say, I think, at the outset, just by way of reminder, that the target, quite rightly, changed for children and young people. The target changed some years ago for adults, so it was only right that there was an equalisation around children. So, the services were working, a couple of years ago, with significant demand and then a change in the standard. I think you're absolutely right; your question alludes to the fact that some health boards are struggling to maintain the full performance around seeing children, particularly within the 28 days. I would say—. And we've had some discussion about whether the impact of the mental health Measure has actually drawn perhaps some of the workforce, the staff, who would have been working at that earlier stage in local primary mental health, into a bit more of the secondary element, which is why the review being undertaken by the NHS delivery unit into primary care CAMHS is so critical, because, actually, if we don't have—and I believe we don't have—enough capacity in that part of the system, then referrals will move towards the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand—so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so—they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's—. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across Wales?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help—hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, you know, you talk about early help and enhanced support for all the 'missing middle', as you referred to it in your report, is to make sure we've got a fully joined-up, multi-agency team approach to that. And I think that will need some resourcing to support that, yet to be fully determined. But yesterday's announcement about youth work, the Government's commitment to primary care, CAMHS, et cetera—that's all going to be very helpful to prevent those young people having to go into specialist CAMHS. And just a final note on that, if I may—at the beginning of the programme, we had a report from Hafal called 'Making Sense' and there were 10 key asks, if you like, of the system and the service from young people who had experience of the service. They said, 'Please don't medicalise it'—I'm paraphrasing now, of course—'Please don't medicalise it; please focus on supporting teachers and others who can support us at an earlier stage and then, when we really need help, please ensure that it is there at that more specialist level.' That's been a bit of a guiding principle for the programme. So, that reflects the questions that you were asking, really.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. What are the outcomes of the stakeholder workshop held last week on early help and enhanced support? And how are the actions going to be taken forward and implemented? And also, given that the Together for Children and Young People programme comes to an end in October of this year, who, in your view, is best placed to forward this work stream, and what will be the biggest challenges? It's a bit of a long question, so, break it up however you like.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "That's absolutely fine.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "And what will be the biggest challenges that they will face?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I think that's helpfully laid out in three stages. So, you're absolutely right, there was a highly successful workshop last week really focusing on early help and enhanced support. It brought all of the agencies together, which was—and actually had a bit of a waiting list, apparently, for places. So, there was a lot of demand and a lot of interest in this. In relation to the next steps, there is a planning group reflection in early July, in terms of the outcomes of the workshop or the outputs of the workshop, and there are three commitments that have been made to this stage. One is that we develop those values-led approaches that will bring multiple agencies together to have that common purpose. The second one is to develop the ingredients for successful working in this area, and then, thirdly, to determine or propose priorities and sequencing of next steps. So, that's the next stage of that. I'm pretty sure we'll come on shortly—or hopefully—to the potential of the regional partnership boards. There is some work that we are doing as a programme with the children's commissioner in terms of working more with the regional partnership boards in taking forward this work. So, that will run alongside. But during the summer, then, we will be developing that framework approach, and we will be participating in the Association of Directors of Social Services conference in September, and then a follow-up workshop in October on this matter. On your question of 'Well, what happens after the programme?' we are currently working on legacy arrangements for the programme. I'm pretty secure on the specialist CAMHS element. That will move, most likely, to the CAMHS network, which is part of the NHS mental health network. I actually chair the mental health network and that's one part of that. The whole-school approach element is already settled in Government and we've got a connection in to that. The question that's outstanding is where the early help and enhanced support and the neurodevelopmental will go. I am currently in discussions with Welsh Government officials around that. I can be very clear of my own view that there needs to be a confident and clear legacy arrangement for this work. We cannot afford that we've come so far for this not now to proceed. I think there's a huge momentum behind this. I don't see there would be any obstacles—I hope—in getting that commitment translated into a strong approach, as we move forward. So, I'm not in a position to say, 'And the legacy arrangements will be—', but I am in a position to say that I'm having those discussions with Welsh Government officials. They know my view that we've got to put something in place that is strong and secure as we move forward, and I believe that they are supportive of that.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Janet, I think those two questions have been touched on, the remaining questions. We are going to discuss in more detail the legacy arrangements, but if I could just ask on psychological therapies: you referred to the fact that you were a bit disappointed with progress in this area, and the area hasn't been directly led on by the Together for Children and Young People programme. Do you think that means now that there is more of a threat to progress in this area, because, you know, we've got different compartmentalising of actions, and this is absolutely key, isn't it, really?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think there's—. There is some refinement to be done, I think, in making sure the connections are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident—I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair—that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that—. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS—if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good case for consistency in the main, with local variation. There has been a case for much greater learning between organisations. If I just give you an example—you'll know that the community intensive service teams were put in place in 2015-ish. Some areas have them, but a lot of areas didn't. We do have inconsistency in that, but the consistent part is there is a service now right the way across Wales for more intensive support to children and young people and their families in their own homes, which helps to prevent admissions and then, where there are admissions, helps to support people to be at home. They're all called slightly different things. So, I might have referred in my papers to CITT, CATT, COT and CITE. So, they've all got slightly different names and they've got slightly different opening hours. The key thrust of this is that there is a backbone, if you like, of a consistent approach with that local variation. We have to check. So, things like frameworks for improvement—there is a coming together of the clinicians and the professionals to agree what that framework for improvement is. That then gets implemented, with some local variation. So, I think the process of moving in that way has been extremely helpful. There will be some variation. We want some variation, to some extent, as places try new things and evaluate new things. So, if I just refer to the previous question that I had, and I talked about hot clinics and different ways of reaching out; that's been tried in one area, been evaluated—let's see the spread of that. So, you'll know my view on internet counselling, for example; I feel that is quite a strong offer for children—not necessarily in the specialist end. If that works in one area, why aren't we rolling that out to other areas? So, I think the framework for improvement has provided a vehicle for those clinicians and professionals to come together. It's in a stronger place—a much stronger place—than it was five years ago.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. You've referred to there being some inconsistencies in terms of crisis care, but are you able to assure the committee that all young people are now getting at least a consistent service, especially in terms of interventions in the instances of young people self-harming. Wherever you live in Wales, is that help there for you now?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, in your work to produce the 'Mind over matter' report, I clearly listened to the views from the police and the recommendations in relation to the police. We've taken that as a further piece of work under the specialist CAMHS umbrella, to truly understand what the experiences of the police are and what some of the root issues may be in relation to that. For example, is it that because the CIT, CAT, COT, CITE—the community intensive service—closes at 10 o'clock in a certain area, that actually it's after that that the network of support isn't as strong, and, if that is the case, what are we going to do about that? There's certainly potential in working more regionally or even working between adults' and children's in terms of the crisis resolution services that work beyond those hours. So, we are taking an extra look at this, because I could not be 100 per cent confident that, throughout the 24-hour period, we've got this fully settled. I continue to hear some stories from the police that they are picking up young people and feeling that they've not got that solid place to go, and we're following those through.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We've got some questions now from Hefin David on neurodevelopmental services.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, Chair, I should have declared an interest here, as my daughter has been diagnosed with autism and is currently going through the process of receiving neurodevelopmental speech and language support particularly. We're seeing an increase in neurodevelopmental referrals, and that will increase further in the future. Can you give us an explanation as to why this demand is growing and how we're going to meet capacity to deliver and for support for those children?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. They're very big questions in terms of 'why'. I'm not sure that anyone really knows why, if I'm honest, although there is a lot of academic research going on. What we do know is that we are starting to see the scale of those referrals coming through. So, in the information provided, I refer to the NHS digital prevalence report in England, which indicates that about 5.5 per cent of two to four-year-olds have a mental disorder. Now, that sounds a bit shocking when we say that, but that's in the international classification scaling, and, of that, certainly, 2.5 per cent is around autism. I can just testify, in real life, that demand is absolutely growing. So, if I just take my own health board for a moment, we usually have about 75 referrals per year. Last year we had 300. So, that has felt very difficult to manage. If I can just give you a sense of what we've done so far and then what I think is next, I want to recognise the work of Dr Cath Norton and the steering group that's been established on neurodevelopmental issues under the programme. They had a standing start. They've done a lot of very, very good work. We now have seven teams in place across Wales. We now have a national pathway. We now have a community-of-practice-type environment, and we're really getting into this. Good progress has been made. More people have been seen. More people have been assessed. So, we have made progress. But I've got a long list of considerations that I think respond to your question. One is that most referrals that come through, the clinicians tell me, are seeking support to move through what they perceive to be a gateway for educational support. So, that is often the reason why people come. Now, that is obviously going to be linked to the whole-school approach and how we can support that. Demand is outstripping supply. So, our clinical teams are concerned about how do they keep up. So, if I just take my own example of 300 in the last year, we're looking to try and put some additional capacity in to support seeing those families, but also then to understand what the long-term trajectory is going to be. Because we've put these teams in, because we've got the new pathway, has that opened a gate and we've got a lot of backlog or is that the pattern?",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Can I just ask a question there?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "So, with regard to the 75 to 300 increase—in the space of a year was that?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "In a year, yes.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Did you anticipate that or was that something that just came totally unexpected?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we anticipated a few more, and just to say that in my—",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "But not on that scale.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "No, not on that scale. And in my own health board—I'm just referring to my own, and I'm happy to share the information on this—we already had a service in place. So, it wasn't as if we had nothing in place previously. We had a NICE-compliant service already in place, but we knew we needed to expand that, which we have done, but we didn't anticipate 300. So, this is happening not just across Wales, actually, but across the UK—so, this greater recognition, the desire for families coming forward to access that support and them seeing this as a route, which is really important. What I would also say, and this is part of the bigger picture that we need to consider going forward, is that only about 40 per cent to 50 per cent of those families that come forward have what I would call or the clinicians would call a diagnosis—so, a threshold or whatever term you want to use that takes people through to that educational support. So, we've got a lot of people who are under that threshold, but that's a lot of people who still need help and support. I'm trying to very fairly and, I hope, appropriately represent the very strong views coming from the group—the workstream under the programme. We've got to tackle all of that. It's not going to be good enough for us just to focus our attention on those children and young people and their families who reach a threshold, because there are needs elsewhere as well, and some of that will overlap with the early help and enhanced support. Some of that overlaps with learning disability services. Can I just mention a few more things, as I'm on roll on neurodevelopmental?",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "It's up to the Chair.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, go on.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Is that all right? Sorry, I know it's a very long answer. There is a concern from the neurodevelopmental group to get across that whilst there has been a lot of focus on autism—and we recognise the private Member's Bill—there are other neurodevelopmental presentations and there's a real—. Having the broadest view would be advised by them, and I think they're particularly keen to understand what a future vision and what we call, say, a 'perfect world' would look like. That's the piece of work that we're wanting to do now. In terms of giving advice at the end of the programme and into legacy arrangements, about what the big, big things are, we are still needing to tackle.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "I mean, I personally took a very personal decision when it came to the Member's Bill on autism you were talking about—and that was the advice I received. You need to look at the wider symptoms that are presented beyond autism and other neurological conditions. So, I'm glad you said that, because it gives me—. Because I didn't vote for that Bill, and I'm glad you said that because it gives me some personal reassurance there. But what I do have concerns about is if the increase wasn't anticipated to the extent that it was and that the Together for Children and Young People programme has a duty to review capacity, after October who's going to make sure that that capacity's reviewed on a strategic basis?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "So, I should have probably added in that we've got a piece of work under way at the moment—Welsh Government commissioned it—by a person called Patrick Holton, and he is specifically looking at the demands on capacity in relation to neurodevelopmental. I think getting that slightly more independent view of what we think the trends are going to be over the long term will mean we can plan for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Tŷ Llidiard.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. I think, certainly, there is some recovery in the position in north Wales, and the programme did a peer review visit to north Wales, which I think was very helpful. In terms of where the programme has been on this issue, there is some work under way, at quite an advanced stage, around the art of the possible around enhancing the scope of the services. This was quite a tricky thing to start off when you're in a position where, actually, there've been some restrictions, to then ask the service to think about going even further, but we really wanted to see what the art of the possible would be if we could attract the right workforce, get the right environment, et cetera, et cetera—so, that piece of work, the review of the specification about what could be possible. Clearly, we work very closely with Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee as the commissioner, so we don't commission that. We neither performance manage those environments. But, if I can just say, probably the most important part of moving forward now is the longer term work between health and social care in terms of having a much more integrated and joined up approach for children. We believe there would probably be about 100 children who have experienced care in multiple settings. We haven't got that mature approach in terms of these being joined-up teams; we've got social care and we've got healthcare. There is a growing appetite to do something different. There is a meeting with the children's commissioner on 9 July to explore that. I've previously had conversations with the chief inspector of Care Inspectorate Wales, for example, and we have now got, I think, a consensus growing that we need to do something very different for children and young people who are in this sort of need for the future. We also know that there've been some high-profile legal cases as well. So, we've got to move to that step now. It has been largely successful, the work that has taken place over recent years, but not without its key challenges.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. And, just briefly on the new specification that WHSSC are developing, that will enable admissions at weekends and out of hours. How concerned should we be about that being a challenge, particularly in Abergele, where staffing has been a major issue?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think we need to be very mindful of ensuring that the right workforce are in place before that gets implemented. The peer review highlighted the challenge of the physical environment, where the unit is, the challenge across north Wales of the workforce. These are issues well known by the health board, by the way, so it wasn't a surprise to them. But that dialogue about how do we ensure that we've got the right workforce, because that unit, potentially, could—you know, it's an isolated unit, and they’ve been risk-managing. They've been managing the types of young people that they can take bearing in mind the workforce that they've got available, and that's been entirely the right thing to do. But the downside of that is it's not as accessible as we would want.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Hefin David has got some questions on workforce now.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. With regard to the increased CAMHS posts that have been made available between 2016 and 2018—a 62 per cent increase in CAMHS posts—we know that there's likely to be labour market demand, high labour market demand, in those instances, so are the vacancy rates higher in Wales than elsewhere, given the increase in those posts to be filled?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "So, you're absolutely right. There's been quite a lot of investment, and there have been quite a lot of new recruits coming to the service. We had in the early days a situation where we were largely robbing Peter to pay Paul, to be quite frank. So, as new services were being developed, people would move from one part of the system to the other. So, in the early days there was little net gain. That has improved slightly, but we're in a national context, particularly around nursing and around some specialties in medicine, of a national shortage, so this is not a quick fix. We are starting to see a greater diversity of workforce. So, if I can mention psychology assistants, for example, my own health board is employing more psychology assistants as part of a skill mix team, rather than going to where we might have been more traditionally based. We see some of that through the NHS benchmarking, particularly with England. They have more of that. We're perhaps a little bit—",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "More of what?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "They have more skill mix in their workforce. We're catching up a bit more on that now.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Just to clarify there, what you're referring to—there are more nursing and medical staff in the Wales system and more psychological staff, experts, in the UK picture. Is that—?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "In the England picture. So, England had a programme called IAPT, which is about psychological therapies, and had therefore looked at the skill mix. Some of that was—. We've chatted to colleagues in England, trying to learn—we're all trying to make improvements in this area, of course; it's a UK and international issue—what were their experiences of this psychological therapies approach. Because of their vacancies they had to skill mix, and because of the money that they had available—they didn't have as much of a cash injection as perhaps we've been able to secure. So, they skill mixed much earlier; we're skill mixing now. We're using different types of roles, for example. And if I can just make a plea, really, around recognising the input of the third sector—so, it doesn't always have to be an NHS-employed person to work in service provision, direct front-line service provision, and the third sector are offering a significant contribution in a number of areas of our services. And that is one that we will need to cultivate, because, to be quite frank, our recruitment challenges won't be solved overnight. We've recognised that the commissioning numbers for nursing and other professionals have gone up over recent times, but, with the training time, it's not a quick fix.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Does the workforce profile remain different, or are they starting to—?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "They're starting to come together. There is a—graph 13 in terms of the CAMHS profile. Each year we do the NHS benchmarking, and we can see where we are compared to others, and I would expect over the next year or two that we see a bit more narrowing.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "So, if you compare a child in Wales with a child in England in the last two years who's been through this, would they have had a different experience as a result, and different clinical advice as a result, or is there consistency despite the difference in workforce profile?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "That's quite a big question. Hand on heart, could I tell you I absolutely know the detail of that? No, I couldn't. The practice in this area is guided by National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidance, so it's pretty much guided. We would expect all of our practitioners to be able to work to NICE guidance. When you skill mix a team, you enable the right referrals to go to the right person, so you wouldn't necessarily have a child or young person with particularly complex needs—well, you would match them to the right practitioner for their needs. So, it does—. And we've seen some of that; if I just make reference to the panel approach in Gwent that's been developed, a multi-agency panel come together, a referral comes in, it's then about matching the right service and the right person to the needs that are being presented. So, we can be much more flexible in relation to that, and we have to be careful to use the right resource for the right person, because, if we've got a resource that is highly specialist, we want them to be dealing with those children and young people.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "And one of the things you're able to do—because there's a lot about the labour market you can't control, but one of the things you can control is workforce development and ongoing workforce development. You've mentioned communities of practice. What other things are being done in addition, and how do the communities of practice work might be a good question, but what else is being done in order to upskill and develop and grow the existing workforce that is presented to you?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that. So, there's a couple of things around—. I think there's a huge focus on staff retention now, not just in Wales but across the UK. So, we've got recruitment but we've got retention. What are the factors that affect retention? Actually, well-being, well-being at work—and you'll know that within 'A Healthier Wales' the focus on staff engagement, staff well-being, has been laid out—the ability to work well in teams and the culture of organisations and services, and, then, as you rightly say, training and development and career opportunities. So, the developments over the last few years have brought training opportunities and career development opportunities as well. I think the community of practice—it's something that has become a bit of a standard now across these areas—actually brings people together doing collective audit, doing collective reflection on service improvement, and being very clear about learning from one another. And, if you're a clinician, that gives you a lot of motivation to keep driving forward. So, I think we have the fundamental building blocks in place, but there is more to do around the environment in which our practitioners and our staff operate.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "What about the Welsh language in the health board?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. There are two elements, if I may, just on that. In your report of last year you highlighted the need to do further work on the use of the Welsh language, and have we got enough Welsh language practitioners where we need them. We are doing that piece of work. I'm pleased to say that, over the last few years, I think all health boards have really stepped up in terms of being able to understand the levels of Welsh speaking amongst employed staff and where their Welsh-speaking communities are. We're particularly looking at it in terms of in-patient CAMHS and community intensive services, because, particularly when people are feeling at their most vulnerable, they would choose the language they wish to choose. So, we know we need to respond to that. So, we will be in a position to, by the end of this programme, provide that position statement on what happens next. I would also say, of course, we've got the Welsh language standards that we are all working on at the moment, and we've got a very clear programme of when we have to be compliant with those standards. So, that element is very high on the priority list.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Suzy Davies has a question about looked-after children.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Thank you, Chair. Obviously, everything you've been speaking about already, particularly about workforce development, applies to children in care as well, where there's other work also going on in terms of support. Can you give us some indication about how the programme intersects, then, with the outcomes for the children in care work programme?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thanks very much for that. So, we have one of our members of the programme board also sitting on the outcomes for children ministerial group, which is good. So, we've got that cross-link. We also have a director of social services on our programme board and, obviously, they're very clearly linked in to the outcomes for children. I just made reference to, under the question on specialist CAMHS in-patients, the need to bring those services together, and that, really, is the need for much stronger working between the outcomes for children group and the Together for Children and Young People programme and the constituent parts. So, I'm confident that that has been pegged now. We've got a way forward and there is a consensus that we need to do things together on that.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Can you just perhaps give us an example of how that then looks on the ground? Because it's great that people are talking together, but how would that affect, I don't know, individual members of the workforce, or, indeed, the children we're talking about?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, if I just give an example of a unit in south Wales that is a social care unit, we've been having discussions about, 'Well, actually, shouldn't you have a psychologist and good access to psychological therapies, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera?' So, we haven't yet got an agreed position on how we're going to do this, but the position is that something needs to be done, and there is an appetite for and an understanding of the case for change, I believe. But what it will mean, I think, in practice, is that you get much more fluid roles moving across sectors, or we could be designing services that are fully integrated. Now, there may be challenges in that, but, you know, let's get them out on the table. So, in terms of this seamless health and social care system for Wales, this is one of the tests of that, I would say: can we, within the next five years, 10 years, really bring that together? That will take quite a lot of work and commitment. On the looked-after children specifically, we have picked that up, particularly following your previous report, looking specifically at the assessment of young people who are care experienced who are in the system. Absolutely, part of the health assessment is emotional health and mental health. We are questioning whether that needs to be a greater part and what the level of support needs to be, particularly because of the backgrounds of children that have led them to be in those circumstances. That's a core piece of work under the early help and enhanced support work stream, and we'll be ensuring that that is complete by the end of the programme.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And you're confident that that will reach children who are being fostered and perhaps don't have very frequent looked-after children reviews, because, from all other perspectives, things are going fairly well.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. And, of course, there's the edge-of-care work that the Government have been supporting, and, certainly in my own area, under the regional partnership board, we have a Start Well programme, which is the old Children and Young People's Partnership programme, where there's a significant investment in supporting children and young people, families, on the edge of care, which does pick up fostering.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Ah, lovely. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Dawn has a question on transition.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Thank you, Chair. We've heard, not necessarily just in the context of this report, because we've heard similar evidence around transition arrangements in another committee report when we did the suicide prevention, and I've in fact only recently—well, just this week, actually—met with community mental health teams in my constituency, and there is still some concern about transitional arrangements from children into adult services. Now, I know we had the—. The transition guidance was published a couple of years ago now, and the programme was involved in developing that guidance. But what's your assessment of the impact that it's had? Because we clearly are still seeing people falling through the gaps, aren't we?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, thank you for that. You're absolutely right; we developed that guidance and we are currently in the process of the evaluation of that. And, in particular, I know that the children's commissioner is very focused on transition, not just around children in receipt of emotional mental health support, but children in paediatric wards, and there is a working group with Welsh Government looking at this. The children's commissioner has used our guidance to put that on the table to say, 'Well, if this works, this needs to be considered as a model for using elsewhere'. But the big question there is 'if'. So, we do want to get evaluation. If I were just to give an estimate of where I think this will land, I think it will have made improvements, but there may well be some further work to do in enhancing, supporting, auditing that every child is supported in line with that guidance. So, I talked about community practice and clinical audit: is this something that we make, then, a mandatory audit, each year, that we do that double check? Because it's one of those things where we know when a child is 14, 15, 16, 17, so what's stopping us? If indeed the evaluation says it's not happening everywhere, it's not happening early enough, what is stopping us? We really need to get underneath that. So, my sense will be it will show us, it will be better, but there's some further work to do, and following that up in terms of audit and making sure that we've got a systematic approach to dealing with those who haven't had the guidance fully implemented, because it can make a real difference.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and it seems to me—you've just talked about having a systematic approach, and it does seem to me that it is a systematic process, isn't it? So, it shouldn't be difficult. I know we're talking about in the health service things shouldn't be difficult and they are, and one of the gripes—I had a meeting with the community health team—was the problems of the new IT systems and so on—let's not go there at the moment. But, really, this is just about referring children and having a smooth transition from the service being provided to them as a child and then just shifting it over to the adult services. It shouldn't be difficult. It's really difficult to get my head around why that is such a problem and why that needs to be so difficult.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I add one other dimension in, which I think is going to be quite interesting? We talk about transitions being an issue—and we know it's not just in mental health, but it's elsewhere—then you start to think, 'What if we could reduce transitions?', so you reduce the number of transitions and you manage them better. We are doing a piece of work with Government on the potential to explore what a 0-25-type service would be. We know that in different places they have approached that—in Australia and places in the UK. There are probably some pros and cons, but should we be moving to a 0-25. That is moving the transition at the age of 25, but at least it's not at the eighteenth birthday. What's the argument around what adolescent, young people and young adults services are, for example? That piece of research and understanding—",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "You could probably have a gradual transition, then, couldn't you?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Quite potentially. I've got some people who have joined my own health board who've worked in that 0-25-type service, and we're catching up—'Tell me what was good about it? Tell me what was not so good about it? What did the young people themselves think about that?'. Because if we can manage down the numbers of transitions, there really should be no excuse not to get transitions right, then.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. We've got some really important questions now about legacy, because throughout the session this morning you've referred to ongoing work, really, and that is a major concern for the committee. Suzy Davies.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, thank you, Chair, we are a little bit worried that this programme is coming to an end in a matter of months when perhaps its work's not been completed. Obviously, we've got the Welsh Government's strategy for mental health running until 2022, which is a few years longer. Can you tell me whether you think your programme needs to continue, perhaps even if it's just for the same length of time as Together for Mental Health, or is its work done and it needs to be picked up now by a different system?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that. Can I just say, I've given this so much thought over the time, because I think you might have asked me this question when I came previously? There are two ways to look at this. I'm absolutely sure that the issue of children's emotional and mental health will be one that will be with us for a very long time. We have made a lot of progress, I think, as a society, in talking about this now. We talk about mental health so much more than we ever used to. When I was a child, we never talked about it. I talk to my own children and say, 'What's going on in your lives at school?', and they talk about this. This is not an issue, if you like, that I believe you can pick up and solve literally in five years. This is one for the long term for us. So, on the one hand, I think my view last year was that, when you have a programme of work, you should have a start, a middle and end, really—otherwise it's not a programme of work, it's almost forever—and there is a moment to refresh and reflect on whether that mechanism has done all it should and it should move into a different mechanism. So, my position last year was, 'This will have been running for five years—we've done a lot of work and made progress on specialist CAMHS, we have made progress on the whole-school approach and there is a different mechanism for this' et cetera. My position now is I want to just be really sure and secure that there is a strong arrangement going forward that takes this work, if this programme is going to close.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Are you sure?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Not yet. So, I think, in an earlier question I indicated dialogue going on between myself and Welsh Government officials. I don't think there's a barrier—people aren't saying, 'No, it all needs to just stop; we've solved the issue', but the exact nature of the legacy arrangements, particularly for early help and enhanced support, are not yet fully determined, or for neurodevelopmental. If it was a choice between nothing being there and continuing this programme, I would be supporting continuing the programme. I don't think we can stop now.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Well, I don't think any of us would disagree with that, but I suppose there might be a level of concern that the Welsh Government's preferred route from now on would be through the regional partnership boards and public services boards. You mentioned that you've done that work in Gwent, down in the south-east of your patch there. It's quite difficult for us to try and get a picture of how that will work successfully for the whole of Wales. I know you've got your experience in Gwent, but have you thought a bit more about how it might look elsewhere, if that's the route that Government decides to pursue?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think the key question in my own mind is: are the regional partnership boards yet ready and mature enough to take this forward? I'm the chair of the Powys regional partnership board, so I should declare that. There's a lot being asked of the regional partnership boards at the moment—",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Well, we'll be asking them to go with the 'Mind over matter' report, to make sure that that's delivered upon.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "There's a lot, you know, 'A Healthier Wales'—. Everyone does feel that the regional partnership boards are a route to really secure multi-agency working, so there is quite a high expectation. My understanding—and this is a rather informal understanding—is that different RPBs are in different places. So, some have retained what used to be the old children and young people partnerships, and perhaps where they have been retained, they may be in a more progressed position. Some are looking to have to re-establish those. So, my sense of this is that, I think, possibly the RPBs aren't yet in that position to be ready. Our piece of work on early help and enhanced support, in terms of your earlier question about what's the commitment—that feels that that may well be another year or 18 months of development work, alongside the RPB development work, to get that ready, before we can then more confidently say where we can hand over.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "You may not feel able to say it, then, but would be wrong in saying that, actually, it would be quite a good idea to extend the current programme, just to make sure that anyone else who might be able to run on with component parts of it is in the position to do that to our satisfaction?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm happy to respond to it. My sense is that, whether it's the programme or whether it's something else, something needs to be there. The next stage is really multi-agency, so it may well be that the programme currently has been NHS-led—maybe it needs to be led elsewhere, maybe not. I think there's a view that this needs to continue. I'm less wedded to it having to be the Together for Children and Young People programme. It may be seen as a convenient mechanism—it's already established, we've got a programme team et cetera, so it may be seen as a ready sort of solution. I'm not wedded to that. What I feel strongly about is that we've got to have the right mechanism to take it forward.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Can I just push you on one thing there? You mentioned, perhaps, the NHS could lead on the work, for example. Is there a risk of fragmentation if we start looking—? I'm just thinking—I mean, we've got the elements here: we've got the NHS, there's the whole-school approach, early help and enhanced support and intervention, as you mentioned earlier. If that goes to one of the players in that multi-agency approach, is there a risk that they might become too dominant, inadvertently—?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "If I can just clarify—apologies if I wasn't clear. I said the current programme has been NHS-led, and that might be a reason to change.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "To mix it up a bit. Oh, right, okay. Anything else you want me to pursue on that—?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just clarify for the record, Carol—because we put this to the Minister last week—are you looking at asking the regional partnership boards to take this work over from October 2019? Are you saying clearly to the committee that you do not feel that all regional partnership boards are ready for that challenge at this point?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm saying that on a more, if you like it, uniformed and informal basis, we're doing some work with the children's commissioner now in terms of—. I know the children's commissioner's very interested in how RPBs are managing, developing and dealing with the issues of children and young people's concerns. We're working with her to understand and to mirror alongside her the understanding of the RPBs. What I would say is that there has been some preparatory work by Government around supporting RPBs. So, for example, in the integrated care fund guidance last year, there was a specific reference to child and adolescent emotional mental health, which I welcomed. I've also welcomed, literally last week, a letter to all RPB chairs giving an allocation of £200,000 per RPB to support this further work in terms of child and adolescent emotional and mental health and the early help and support element. So, all of these things are in the right direction. My sense, and I need to stress it's a sense because we haven't done that piece of work, is different RPBs are in different places. So, how confident can we be at the October date that we could hand over? My sense is, just to safeguard, having a mechanism in place for the next 12 to 18 months to guide this through might be advisable, and that's what I'm talking to officials about.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "And that would either be an extension of the Together for Children and Young People programme or something else. Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Because I think there is a question, isn't there, about whether the RPBs will make this enough of a priority? I'm a bit nervous that it might get lost in that huge amount of work you said they might have. Just a final question from me: how are you establishing what the young people themselves think about the end of the programme? Are they bothered about the structure of this at all or are they just concerned that they're getting help? How's the stakeholder group feeding into this?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I've not been blown over in the rush of people saying, 'Don't go anywhere.' [Laughter.] It's a really important matter for young people. I know that later on you're meeting with the Youth Parliament, you're having a joint session, which is fantastic. We've had contact with the Youth Parliament because we know it's one of their top three issues. So, it runs in the vein of that this is going to be a long-term matter for young people, I think. Whether they have a specific view on the programme, I don't know. I've not heard that. But I'm pretty sure they will be vocal in saying, 'We have to have these developments continue.' It is a major issue, we're not there yet—maybe some progress has been made but there's still a lot to do—and I think we'll need to be able to respond to that.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Anything particularly you want in addition to that?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "No, I think that's fine. And if I can just say that it was really great last week at the early help and enhanced day to see young people so central to the day all the way through. It was very, very important and very welcome.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Carol, thank you for that. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. we have come to the end of our time. We had a lot of things that we wanted to cover with you. We might need to drop you a line about a couple of things that we haven't covered, but can I thank you for your attendance this morning? As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting, but thank you very much for your time.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, all.",
"speaker": "Carol Shillabeer"
},
{
"content": "Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Youth Parliament—invitation to engagement events. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Education clarifying some issues around the Welsh network of healthy schools scheme, following the task and finish group. Paper to note 3: letter from the Minister for Education on the implementation of the Diamond reforms, and that's ahead of our session on 4 July. Papers to note 4 and 5 are a letter from me to the children's commissioner and the Minister for Education seeking the update we agreed on the issue of elective home education. And then paper to note 6, paper to note 7 and paper to note 8 are all letters regarding the concerns that we discussed about the expectation of a target being set for looked-after children, to the First Minister, Children's Commissioner for Wales and the Association of Directors of Social Services. Are Members happy to note those? Thank you very much. Item 4, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Okay.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_12 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"40"
]
],
"topic": "The Bill to ban physical punishment"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"41",
"79"
]
],
"topic": "Relative agencies and workload"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"80",
"125"
]
],
"topic": "Parenting issues and teachers' preparation"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"126",
"147"
]
],
"topic": "The police and the Crown Prosecution"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"148",
"173"
]
],
"topic": "Resource implications"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"174",
"197"
]
],
"topic": "Human rights and awareness raising"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This meeting mainly talked about the Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment Bill. Julie Morgan, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, and Karen Cornish, deputy director of the Children and Families Division, took charge of answering the relevant questions. To start with, the meeting first discussed the motivation of such legislation and the impact on social service and other agencies. Support for parents and teachers were then discussed, involving their demands and means to address. To continue, the meeting turned to the criminal perspective, discussing the out-of-court disposals, malicious reporting, and non-conviction information. The next step was to talk about costings, followed by the topic of human rights and eventually the awareness raising.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan thought there was a need for legislation to ban any physical punishment and this bill aimed at protecting children's rights. To ensure the effectiveness of the bill, there was an implementation group with representatives of the police, the crime commissioner, the Crown Prosecution Service, and the social service. Therefore, Julie Morgan was confident about the implementation of legislation. Furthermore, ongoing monitoring had been used to look for the view of the public and ongoing evaluation would come to practice in the next step.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the bill to ban physical punishment.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"40"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "All forms of physical punishment including smacks from a loving parent should be prohibited by legislation to protect children's rights. There were multiple other ways to help parents bring up children rather than the physical punishment.",
"query": "What did Julie Morgan think about a light smack from a loving parent when talking about the bill to ban physical punishment?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"5"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan pointed to the importance of knowing the effect of legislation. To attain this goal, their team has put forward the ongoing monitoring and surveys in terms of the views of the public. In the following steps, ongoing evaluation would be added for independent individuals.",
"query": "What were measures to make sure the effectiveness of the bill to ban physical punishment?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"28",
"40"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan answered questions about the bill's impact on other agencies, including the social service, MASHs, CAFCASS. Morgan emphasized the dependence of their work as well as the feasibility of workload changed by the bill.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about relative agencies and workload.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"41",
"79"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan and Karen Cornish thought it was really important for agencies, like social services, the police, MASHs to work together in a consistent and appropriate way. However, the team was not dependent on others' work, considering not every area would get their help.",
"query": "What did Julie Morgan and Karen Cornish think about the relationship with other agencies when talking about relative agencies and workload?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"41",
"55"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan first paid tribute to the work done by social workers. Then, Morgan gave examples from the professionals that there had not been a big rise of referrals, but a slight increase at the beginning which was estimated to fall over time. Moreover, he indicated that a baseline would work in the future to see what exactly happened.",
"query": "What did Julie Morgan respond to the worry of heavy workload for social workers when talking about relative agencies and workload?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"56",
"62"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As for the parenting issues, the legislation would go up to 18 years old, providing parenting information of different ages. Also, a mapping exercise would be carried out by officials to clearly identify existing gaps and opportunities to do more. As for school issues, teachers would learn childcare legislation by attending training courses, and the group committee would provide procedures and processes needed to deal with different cases. The discussion then further talked about health and communication problems, including the promotion of the work of health visitors, teachers' responsibilities, and the intentions for mapping exercise in the next step.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about parenting issues and teachers' preparation.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"80",
"125"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan thought the cost of training would be minimal as teachers had had courses about childcare issues and something about the bill would be absorbed into that without any additional fund.",
"query": "What did Julie Morgan think about the cost of training for teachers when talking about parenting issues and teachers' preparation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"90",
"100"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Healthy Child Wales programme and the role of health visitors were really crucial as providing universal service. Based on the bill, they could promote positive parenting by encouraging parents not to use physical punishment. As for people who did not access the Healthy Child Wales programme and the issues regarding coverage, the group would identify the gaps and relative measures with a mapping exercise.",
"query": "What did Julie Morgan think about the communication process through health visitors when talking about parenting issues and teachers' preparation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"106",
"113"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan said the team had done their best preparation to cover all eventualities, such as the awareness-raising campaign, a mapping exercise, and the arrangements of organizations. Later on, Morgan told something about an in-the-round discussion with the Cabinet, where some costings had been decided.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about resource implications.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"148",
"173"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Morgan admitted the existence of unknown cost but emphasized the best preparation done by the team to cover all eventualities. As for public service, the team relied on the information gained from the organizations and Morgan pointed out legislation was put on to the part where public service had been dealing with and for that, there would not be a big impact.",
"query": "What did Julie Morgan think about unforeseen costs when talking about resource implications?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"148",
"153"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The amount of money decided on the awareness-raising campaign was £2.2 million over six years. With the organ donation bill, it was about £4 million. Karen felt confident with the amount in terms of the initial stages of the awareness campaign.",
"query": "What did Karen Cornish think about the budget given when talking about resource implications?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"154",
"169"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I have received apologies for absence from Jack Sargeant, and I'm very pleased to welcome Vikki Howells, who is substituting for Jack this morning. Can I ask whether there are any declarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning is our last evidence session on the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill, and I'm really pleased to welcome back Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services; Karen Cornish, who is deputy director of the children and families division; and Emma Gammon, who is the lawyer working on the Bill. So, thank you all for coming. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions because we've got lots of ground that we want to cover, and the first questions are from Janet Finch-Saunders.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Good morning. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Deputy Minister. Of those individuals who responded to our written consultation in a personal capacity, nearly 70 per cent do not support this Bill. We also heard a clear message from the parents we met last week who oppose this Bill that, as parents, they understand clearly the difference between child abuse and a light smack from a loving parent. How would you like to respond to that?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Janet, for that question. I think I'd like to start by saying that child abuse is not the issue that the Bill is trying to address. What the Bill is trying to do is prohibit all forms of physical punishment, and that is in order to protect children's rights and to ensure that children have the same protection from physical punishment as adults. But I do understand that people have different views, and that's why this process has been so important—for us to hear what your views are and what parents' views are. I know that, often, people use different euphemisms really to make light of physical punishment. I've heard expressions used such as a 'light smack' or a 'loving smack' or a 'tap', and really there can be different interpretations of what is a 'light smack', what is a 'loving smack', and that doesn't really cover the issue of the frequency of such actions being taken. But I would say that, however mild it seems to be, the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child recognises that any physical punishment of children, however minor, is incompatible with their human rights, and why should a big person hit a little person? That's been the sort of mantra, really, that has taken me through supporting this legislation—that it just seems wrong to me that there is something in the law that could mean that there could be an excuse for that happening. I believe we shouldn't have anything in the law that defends the physical punishment of children, and I don't think we should be defining acceptable ways of hitting or punishing children, because I think it does send a confused message to children. It says, 'It's okay for me to hit you, but don't you hit anybody else.' I think it causes confusion. So, I'm confident that updating the law will make it much clearer for parents and people working with children—and, of course, I'm sure, as you'll have heard from the evidence you've taken, that people who work with children are overwhelmingly in support of this legislation, and the representative surveys that we've carried out show support for the Bill's principles.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Deputy Minister. Last week, during the workshop, a few parents—predominantly all of them, actually—said that they use a gentle tap or smacking as part of a toolkit of ways to deal with challenging behaviour or, sometimes, for the safety of the child or, indeed, to carry out the parenting of a child. How do you intend to work with parents going forward, given the finite resources that social care and social services have? I know from the responses we've received to the consultation that parents themselves who have to parent 24 hours a day, seven days a week, they are really, on the scale of things, very upset about this. How do you intend to try and get your message across to those parents on removing what they consider to be part of their toolkit when raising children? How do you intend to deal with that aspect?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, first of all, I want to say, as I've said in most evidence sessions, that I completely accept that bringing up children is hard. It's very difficult; many of us have done it and we know how tough it can be. But we don't think that there is any place for physical punishment in bringing up children. There's a whole range of other ways that you can help parents bring up children, and advice you can give them of different methods to use. But, the clear message of this Bill is that we don't want any physical punishment; we don't think it's the right thing to do, and we believe that we are supported by many people in that view.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "You've got other questions, Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Oh, yes. Several consultation responses refer to statistics from Sweden, which they say show that child-on-child violence actually increased by 1,791 per cent between 1984 and 2010, following the ban on physical punishment in 1979. What is your view on these figures and how can we be certain that this Bill won't lead to other long-term negative outcomes in Wales?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I'm aware of the debate surrounding the interpretation of the different statistics from Sweden. What's happened, really, in the academic research is that different academics are focused on different figures to support their views, and the methodological ways of doing it makes it quite difficult to have causation. I was very encouraged that a recent study of 88 countries concluded that if a country prohibits corporal punishment, the result is association with less youth violence, and this is one of the largest cross-national analyses of youth violence, with more than 400,000 participants. So, there is other evidence, very widespread evidence, which looks at a whole range of people, that is in contrast to the Swedish evidence. But, evidence in this field is mixed and we have considered a wide range of research and reviews, but ultimately the decision is one that is based on our commitment to children's rights.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Do you want question 3?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I can do it, yes. The Bill's explanatory memorandum says that 'there is no definitive evidence that \"reasonable\" physical punishment causes negative outcomes for children'. However, we have heard from Equal Protection Network Cymru that international evidence could not be clearer and that they found the Wales Centre for Public Policy's report, on which the explanatory memorandum is based, very confusing and very frustrating, and that it didn't tie in with what they knew. How would you respond to those viewpoints?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We were very keen to get as balanced research as we possibly could, and we didn't want to just put forward views that we thought agreed with our point of view. So, we were trying to give a balanced point of view, but we did commission the Wales Centre for Public Policy to do an independent literature review and we're honestly reporting to you what they said. But they did make it clear, again, which I think I've said in previous evidence sessions, that all physical punishment, under all conditions, is potentially harmful to children. And certainly, there is no peer-reviewed research that says that physically punishing a child is going to improve things, has favourable outcomes. So, I understand what Equal Protection Network Cymru are saying, because there is a lot of very strong evidence, but we're giving you the evidence that we had from the research that we commissioned.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We've got some questions now from Suzy on implementation.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. I've just got a couple of questions on this balance between the steps that will be needed to implement this Bill and the impact that it'll actually have. You've probably heard in evidence that we've received that there are still some concerns out there about how agencies might address malicious reporting; some detail about how the public interest test might be applied further along the line; what's going to happen with out-of-hours provision from social services, and so on. There are still, from our perspective, quite a few things that are unknown about the effect on our public services in particular of the implementation of this Bill. Would you agree that perhaps we should know a little bit more about that before we proceed with supporting the Bill?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's very difficult, bringing in this legislation that hasn't been done before. It's very difficult to gauge the impact, and we've covered that, I know, in previous discussions. But I think it's very important to say that we are not creating a new offence. The Bill is removing a defence to an offence of common assault. And I think it's an interesting point to make that, in Ireland, they introduced similar legislation through an amendment to a Bill, and had no detailed preparation for bringing in the Bill, and in fact there's no evidence that this has caused any difficulties, and no significant negative impacts or increase in workload. But in any case, we have our implementation group, which is going to address many of these issues. This met on 14 May. That was the first meeting. You see, I think we do have to take a balance between assuming this Bill is going to go through and what we can actually do. We can't presume that the Assembly will accept this Bill, so we have to be staged in what we do. But we had the first strategic implementation group on 14 May, and we had representatives from the police, the police and crime commissioners, the Crown Prosecution Service, the Association of Directors of Social Services Cymru, the Association of Directors of Education in Wales, the Welsh Local Government Association, the legal profession and the third sector. They're all there, and they're all very keen to make this legislation work and to look at the implications of it. I'd just like to say how grateful I am for all those organisations giving their time and commitment. They've set up four work streams, looking at parenting advice and support; data collection, evaluation and monitoring; operations, procedures and processes; and out-of-court disposals and diversions. These groups will be taking forward this work and will be looking at many of those issues that you've mentioned, and will also be updated on the progress of the awareness strategy that we will be bringing in. I'm really confident that the legislation will be implemented in a very practical and workable way, because we do have the commitment of all these agencies, and there's been a huge amount of preparation done in the Welsh Government to prepare for this in a way that, I have to say, hasn't been done in some of the other countries—as I mentioned, in Ireland. So, as much preparation as could be done is being done and has been done, but we really now see that the implementation group is taking forward all these issues, and obviously those agencies that are taking part in the implementation group are, on the whole, in support of the principles of this Bill.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, thank you for that, Minister, but the way I look at this is that you've already said that, if this Bill passes—and it will pass; it's in enough manifestos to pass, so the question is what type of Bill is going to pass—and if there is a gap of, let's say, two years before anything is implemented, and the implementation group is doing the work that you've described—and we're very relieved to hear that—why is this Bill being introduced now when that implementation group hasn't really come up with a strategy that could help persuade people about what implementing this Bill would look like in real life? You're asking the Welsh public to take a bit of a chance on this.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we have, as far as possible, looked at international evidence where this legislation has been introduced. It's different for different countries, so I know it's difficult to get anything that's absolutely linked. But I don't agree that it's a bit of a chance, really. I think we are preparing very well and very carefully. As the team who have been working on this have worked through the preparation for the Bill, lots of issues have arisen as they've done that, and so you have to do that, I think, alongside the actual practical implications with the groups that are coming together, and I think the point at which we've done that is probably just about right, really.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I hope this isn't going on to somebody else's questions, but accepting what you say, would you then be open to accepting amendments to the face of the Bill that would clarify the position for the Welsh public on certain things that may be of concern to them, which have been fed through to us? I'm not suggesting anything specific, but—.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "No, no. I mean, the position is that it is a very simple, one-clause Bill. We want to keep it as simple as possible, but I'm certainly prepared to consider any issues that come up, and I think that's been the case all along. Although our preference is to keep it simple.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I understand that. It's just what's going to work as a bit of law here, isn't it? And then just finally from me, and you've made the point to a degree, that, of course, not all countries are like Wales. If we look at Ireland, and New Zealand's the one we've been looking at an awful lot, which are the most similar, their work hasn't really been in place for that long, and one of the things that, I think, you're going to need to be able persuade us of is that if the culture change to which we've already referred is going in one way anyway, and if it continues to go in that direction, that this Bill will have had a causal effect. I'm trying to establish whether the culture change is going to happen anyway, whether or not we pass this legislation.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it does look as if a culture change is happening in any case, but the culture change will never really move, I think, as most of us want it, if there is legislation that does appear to condone the use of physical punishment, and having this reasonable punishment in law means that happens. So, I think, passing the legislation by itself will certainly not do everything—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "No. And you'll be aware that this is to go with it. I get that, but—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "You've got to have—. And I think the research has all shown you've got to have an awareness campaign running along with it. That is shown. And in the other countries we've looked at, I don't think an awareness campaign was actually carried out because we are planning a really big awareness campaign because we think it's absolutely fair to the Welsh public, as you said, that they absolutely know what we're doing and everybody's aware of it. So, I think it is—.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, can I just finish—?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I know the point you're making. You're saying that this would happen in any case, maybe.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm suggesting it.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "But if you've got a bit of legislation there on the Bill, it will always mean that for a very minority group of parents, they will feel that they have got the right to use physical punishment against their child, and I just think it's something we should get rid of. I think it's an anachronism and it's something we should—. And I think Wales has been very strong on children's rights. We've got rid of physical punishment in schools, child minders, regulated care settings. And, of course, the other point that I don't think we say enough about is that it's not just parents; it's people in loco parentis who are working in leisure centres or religious establishments or any of those unregulated settings who also have this defence. So, it's last bit in the jigsaw, really, to have it quite clear that we want to treat our children with respect and dignity and I think this will move us towards that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, it's the argument you've made before. I think what I was trying to get to is: how are we going to prove that this piece of legislation has worked effectively? It's about the data capture, I guess.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "What are you going to do to make sure that you acquire evidence in the future to show that this has worked, or potentially not worked? I'd be surprised if that was the case, but—. Because, of course, that has an implication then on the resources for the various people you'll be asking to collect the data.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think that's very important because we need to know what is the effect of the legislation we'll be bringing in. So, we will be having ongoing evaluation, we will be bringing in an independent body to evaluate. We have got ongoing monitoring and we've got ongoing monitoring surveys looking at what are the views of the public. So, yes—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "It'll be directly linked to the Bill, then, rather than that broad culture change.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The monitoring, asking the views of the public, is generally about issues related to the Bill. The views of parents about whether this legislation—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, I don't want to labour this point.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "And awareness. How aware they are.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Basically, we need a question, 'Has this Bill stopped you smacking your child?' That's the core question. So, phrase it differently, yes?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Well, we are in the surveys asking how many people feel that they do smack their child, but this is any physical punishment, actually, not just smacking—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And it's for the future, not for now.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "—and how many, actually, are doing that. And it is consistently going down, as you said.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I don't want to take it any further.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We're going to move on to explore some of the issues around social services now with questions from Dawn Bowden.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Morning, Minister. When the Association of Directors of Social Services Cymru came in, they were saying to us that they would encourage people to report any instances, anything that they see around somebody smacking a child. That leads on to the question about whether in fact social services, then, would change their thresholds for intervention if there were more cases being referred to them. Are you fairly confident, are you certain, that that wouldn't happen, or do you think there is a danger that social services might actually say, 'Well, actually, if we're getting all these referrals, we need to think again about when and if we intervene', and the thresholds could become a bit lower?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as you know, social services already receive and investigate reports of children being physically punished—any sort of range of physical punishment—and they use standard procedures to determine how to proceed, but that's done on a case-by-case basis; it's made on the individual case element. And, of course, there is a distinction between reasonable punishment and child neglect or abuse. And if this legislation is enacted, a significant proportion of the incidents of physical punishment will not require any response under the child protection procedures, and we do not expect the threshold of significant harm to change. And I know you took evidence from the ADSS, and I know Sally Jenkins gave evidence, who is one of the lead practitioners, and I understood she said: 'In terms of thresholds for children's services, we would not be anticipating a huge number of referrals to us. There may be a small number of referrals that come through. What we know from other nations is that it will peak and then settle. We recognise that's likely to happen.' So, I think—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, it's the threshold for intervention that's the key, really, isn't it, rather than—?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, they don't see that changing.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, they don't see that changing.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "No, no. And we don't see that changing.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, that's fine. The police, when they came in to give evidence, talked about the need for the multi-agency safeguarding hubs. And what we also heard is that it's a bit inconsistent across the country. And I think you acknowledged that as well. Do you think the implementation of the Bill, and its effectiveness, is going to be dependent on us having consistently effective multi-agency safeguarding hubs right the way across the country?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "No. The effective implementation of the Bill does not depend on MASHs, as we call them for short, because bodies, social services, already work closely with the police on a day-to-day basis, really, and they have indicated their willingness to do so, and there are already well-established mechanisms in place that enable this joint working to take place. I know that the MASHs are only in certain areas, and I know that it's—. I think they're probably very good to have, actually, and very good to help the work, but it's certainly not dependent on them.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, but it would be something that you would be wanting to see developed, that eventually we would have these MASHs right across the country?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "At the moment, there are three MASHs in the south Wales police force, and one pilot MASH in the Gwent police force, but they don't operate in exactly the same way. And I know that other areas have considered having MASHs, but haven't actually brought any in. And a multi-agency strategic group, which is led by South Wales Police, has been set up, and it will consider the effectiveness of MASH arrangements in Wales, so it's very possible there will be more MASHs, but I want to reiterate that we're not dependent on MASHs in order to have the close working. But they're welcome—very welcome.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, because the key point from the police's point of view, I think, was that they provide a single point of contact, so it's very simple, isn't it? It's a single point of contact, and I think they were quite concerned that having that single point of contact might actually reduce the level of unnecessary police prosecutions—well, the police don't prosecute, but charges and so on. So, it was just a point that they were raising.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I think they are very effective and very much to be welcomed, but it's certainly not essential.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, Karen.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I was just going to say that it's probably worth saying that looking at how agencies work together will be one of the things, again, that will be looked at very carefully on the task and finish group, looking at processes and procedures. We're very alert to the fact that there are different organisations, different services, and that bringing them together, working in as consistent a way as possible, is really, really important. As the Minister has said, social services, the police and others are already committed to working together, and, actually, we just want to make sure that we develop those working practices in the best way possible, recognising that not every area will have a MASH, and reiterating, again, what the Deputy Minister has said—that the effectiveness of the Bill is not predicated on a MASH in every area, but it is important that all those organisations do work together in a consistent and appropriate way.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Okay, that's fine. Thank you very much. The other response that we've received is from social workers. And they've talked about the fact that the social worker's workload is already very stretched, and you'll be aware of that, Minister. And I think they were getting a little bit concerned about whether a whole raft of new cases are going to land on what is an already extremely heavy workload, and how effectively they could deal with that. Would you say that those concerns, in terms of the impact of this Bill, are unfounded, or are we just saying that this is an unknown quantity at this stage, and we're going to have to wait and see?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, first of all, if I can just pay tribute to the work that social workers do.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, absolutely.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Because, obviously, they’re going to be essential to the successful implementation of this Bill. I was a social worker myself, so I’m very happy to pay tribute to them. [Laughter.] But they do do a hard job, which isn’t always recognised, I think, by the public. So, I do take this point very seriously, but, obviously, the professionals who have given evidence—many of them have said they don’t see there being a big rise of referrals. Jane Randall, National Independent Safeguarding Board—I think she came to you—said: 'there's no expectation that there's going to be a huge increase in the number of referrals…I think it would be dealt with within their existing resources.' I mean, there may be an increase in reporting of incidents, initially, maybe from individuals in the community and organisations such as schools. And I think it could have an impact on the initial stages of social services activity, which I think others—I think Sally Jenkins said that maybe there’d be an increase, a small increase, at the beginning. But as we expect the awareness raising and the ongoing support that we’ll be giving to parents—we do feel that the incidents of physical punishment will be falling over time. And we don’t really see that there will be an increase. But I know that social workers are stretched, and are hard-pressed—and I think that was some of the evidence given to you by the British Association of Social Workers. But I think it’s important to remember that they are also very strongly in support of us carrying out this legislation. But it is important to look at the realities and the practicalities. So, we’re going to work very closely with social services—obviously, key members of our implementation group—and we will collect relevant data for a period before the actual implementation, in order to get a baseline. We want a baseline, and we are working with a small number of social services to try to get the baseline of where it is, and to see what happens when the Bill is implemented. The evidence from other countries is that they certainly have not been overwhelmed. There have been reports in New Zealand that they have not been overwhelmed, and I mentioned Ireland earlier. So, I don’t think, really, we have to fear that social services would be overwhelmed, but we must be prepared, and we must get this data and monitor it closely.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Keep it monitored.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And I guess things will level out in due course. And social services clearly having to make judgments every day—they will be making those judgments quite quickly and turning them around.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "The Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service, when they spoke to us, also had—there was a similar kind of concern raised. They did say that they felt that they probably did have adequate resources to support the Bill. But do you think there is any danger at all that it could divert CAFCASS staff, if we have a high volume of reporting, particularly given that we’ve got a 26-week limit in which to deal with those cases? Is that something that causes you any concern at this stage?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, CAFCASS are confident that they can deal with the cases that they have. As you know, there's been a big increase in the numbers that CAFCASS is dealing with already, and they have managed to very successfully cope with the demand. So, I've got every confidence that they will be able to cope with it.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Because they were basically just saying that it's unpredictable at this stage, weren't they, so—?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. It is unpredictable. Our best views are that it will not—.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, because they were talking about the fact that no assessment had been made about the risk of malicious reporting. We talked about that in a number of sessions with the police and so on. So, I think their biggest concern was more about the rise in looked-after children and the impact on that in terms of their workload, and it was just a question of whether this would potentially divert any resources, I guess.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, in terms of the malicious reporting, obviously that is something that happens a lot now and it is is likely that, perhaps—. I think they felt that, in existing cases, this might be another element that should be brought in, but they seemed, in my discussions, fairly confident. I know they appeared before the committee, and they are coping very well. But, obviously, another area we are very concerned about is the rise in the number of looked-after children, and that's somewhere we want to try to do what we can to bring that down.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Just before Suzy comes in with a supplementary—CAFCASS didn't come to the committee, they've submitted—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "They sent a letter—that's right. Yes, sorry about that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just very quickly, because I don't want to spend a lot of time on this: isn't it going to be true that any increase in workload for social services or schools or whoever is going to depend on reporting rising? Where do you see the likely rise in reporting taking place? Will it be members of the public or is it going to be professionals who feel that this is something that they can't ignore from now on?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "well, I think it would be mixed. I don't have any view or where it particularly would come from, because if there are any reports that go into agencies now about children being physically punished in any way—I think they investigate those already now. But I suppose members of the public might report if they see any physical punishment going on. They would be made much more aware, we hope, by the legislation—so, that may happen. But I think, in schools, if there is physical punishment reported by a child, the schools would report it in any case. But I think it's likely that there will be a small rise.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I was just curious about where you thought the main source would be—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I can't really be definitive about that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. The next questions are from Siân Gwenllian.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "The Bill, in essence, is a simple one, of course, is it not? But what it does is provide a useful discussion on what good parenting is and what discipline methods are the most effective—that is, discipline methods that parents can use rather than physical punishment. Do you think, therefore, that there's a need to invest much more in programmes to do with parenting and in support services for families in terms of parenting, and that as part of an early intervention strategy that's more co-ordinated and robust than what we have at present?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we are developing the Bill as part of a much wider package of support for children and their parents, which, of course, is already in place. This obviously includes the 'Parenting. Give it time' campaign, which aims to help parents do the best job that they can by providing positive tips on parenting and information. And we're already preparing now to update that, because, of course, that only goes up to age 7 and deals with issues about how you cope with your kids if they're difficult at meal times and if they have tantrums. It is very well used by parents. But, of course, this legislation will go up to 18 years old, and so the issues may be very different. So, we're already starting to prepare to update that 'Parenting. Give it time' campaign. And then, obviously, there's the universal services that give access to help and to promote positive parenting, delivered by local government, health, education, social services, social justice and the third sector. We will be encouraging all those agencies that provide that universal service to help support parents and to pass on this information. Then, there will be the more targeted supports, such as Flying Start and Families First, which offer help and advice. But what I've done is I've asked the officials to carry out a mapping exercise to see where the support is and where the gaps are or opportunities to do more, particularly around information and advice on positive alternatives to physical punishment, but also more widely. So, we are looking to see where the gaps are. I think parents do tend to use information and try to get help in many different ways. A very large number, actually, do use the internet. I was surprised, actually, that so many used the internet to get information. Others ask their mothers, their families, their friends, and go to agencies. It's such a wide range that we need that mapping exercise and we need to see where we need to put in more support.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm pleased that you're going to conduct that exercise, because the evidence that we've received from a number of different directions is that there isn't enough investment in reality in the support services in the early years, and that there is a real need for the focus within Government go back to early intervention and to have a much more co-ordinated strategy. You've mentioned a number of agencies working on different elements, perhaps, but perhaps there's a need to bring them all together. You talk about the 'Parenting. Give it time' campaign, but I think it's an online campaign effectively, and Flying Start—yes, people who attend those courses find them useful, but, of course, it's not available across Wales and it's not available to every parent. There is a scheme that is available through schools in Gwynedd—perhaps you are aware of it—Incredible Years, with Professor Judy Hutchings, who has been working on this for a number of years now, very successfully, where schools, parents and the children work together on parenting methods that are positive. I wonder if it's time to think about expanding that as part of an early intervention strategy across Wales. Perhaps you can't give a specific answer today, but may I ask you to take a look at that? What concerns me is that the Bill is going through but there's not enough work relating to education and having people's support for different methods, more positive methods, in my opinion, of parenting. There's a real need to move and to invest in that area and perhaps move money towards that work.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, certainly, I think that is the purpose of the mapping exercise, to see what is successful, where things need to be expanded, and that's what we're going to consider. Incredible Years—I know it's very successful; I am aware of that programme. I think there are patches all over Wales of really good progress, but, certainly, I'm sure we need to give more support to parents in the early years, and I think they're only too glad to have it as well. Children are very receptive at that age and early intervention is the key to many of the issues that we have to deal with later on.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We're going to return to some of the parenting issues later, but in the meantime we've got questions from Hefin David.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just to take it on the next step from what Siân Gwenllian was asking about—in schools, are teachers ready for this legislation?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "On our implementation group, the education sector is represented. They've come to the first meeting of the implementation group. So, they're going to be fully involved in the preparation. Obviously, corporal punishment was banned in schools a long time ago, and I think the education sector is very supportive of this move. But in terms of the awareness for teachers to be ready for it—obviously, the awareness campaign has got to be aimed at professionals in every field and certainly aimed at teachers.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, if I was a teacher in an individual school, what kind of preparation do you think I should expect?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "You know this better than me, having been more in the education field than me, but I think teachers are updated on different parts of childcare legislation now, and have in-service training days and training courses. And, certainly, perhaps this would be part of that—part of the training that teachers get. This would have to be incorporated into that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "One of the things that the National Association of Head Teachers told us was that they wouldn't want the cost of that kind of training to come from core budgets. Would you agree with that?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I would have thought this sort of measure would be incorporated into the training they were using already, actually. I wouldn't have seen it would need something completely separate.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, you think it should come from the core budget that they use for training?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it could be incorporated in what they're already doing.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And do you think that would be a significant additional cost or do you think that that would be minimal?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I would have thought it would be minimal. They already have training courses about childcare issues, and this would be something that would be absorbed into that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "You mentioned the implementation group and the fact that educators are represented on it. Can you just be a bit clearer about how they are represented again? I'm not sure I caught that.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Do you want to, Karen, because you were at the group?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, education are represented on it through the Association of Directors of Education in Wales, and they have a representative on the strategic implementation group, and we are working with them to understand who else will be on the task and finish groups that we're setting up that the Minister's already talked about. And we've also had conversations with all of the trade unions. I personally went and spoke to them earlier in the year when the Bill was being introduced, received their feedback and have said that I will go back and speak with them.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Okay. The things that are being raised so far—would you say they're reflective of the concerns that the NAHT rose about, for example, funding of training? Are those kinds of issues raised? The practical implications of introducing this Bill—are they raised? If not, what other issues might be raised?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "So, I think that the main concerns that you've already heard as a committee are similar concerns to those that have been raised previously. So, there's not anything in addition to the things that we have discussed, either with the trade unions or through the implementation group, or during the consultation period. And, as the Minister said, for the majority of these sort of things, teachers, education and other workforces already have procedures in place, because this comes under a safeguarding issue at one level. There are procedures and processes that are already there that they all follow. The ask will be based around those safeguarding procedures and, therefore, education and other services update their processes and procedures on a regular basis as a matter of course when any issues like this are addressed. There's a wider context here. Minister, I don't know whether you wanted to say anything about the well-being and the—",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Yes. One of the things that I think this committee has been involved in is we want to have a whole-school approach. We want mental health and well-being to be part of the way that the whole school operates, and the culture and how schools engage with pupils and parents. And we want to create that atmosphere where there's no wrong door, where children can bring up any of the concerns that they have with any member of the school staff that they trust. And, obviously, the school staff is wider than the teachers. And so, I think the creation of that sort of atmosphere is very important in taking forward this issue.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I appreciate that. I think the Bill, though, introduces a very specific set of changes that—",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "It removes the defence; that's all the Bill does.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "But should a parent witness, now, smacking, then it will require a different kind of approach—sorry, if a teacher were to witness smacking, it would require a different kind of approach, perhaps, to existing approaches. There shouldn't, therefore, be any surprise amongst teachers in how to deal with these things when the Bill comes in. I suppose the question I'm asking is: can we be assured that nothing you've said today in this meeting, in this committee, should be a surprise to teachers and trade unions, because that would already have been communicated through the Bill implementation group?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, well, Karen has already said about the meetings that she's had with the unions and they are present on the implementation group, but a lot of these things happen already. They already have to make decisions about physical punishment they may be told about by children, for example—probably more likely than actually witnessing anything. And they already have to make decisions on those sorts of issues, so I see this as being incorporated in with that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. With regard to health and the communication of this to parents, we've heard about the Healthy Child Wales programme, and the fact that it has the opportunity to play a role in raising parents' awareness. Do you think that's the case?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the Healthy Child Wales programme and the role of the health visitor is absolutely crucial, because, obviously, the health visitor is there right at the beginning. It's a universal service, and so there will be great opportunity for them to promote positive parenting in a much stronger way than they're able to do at the moment, because the fact that you have this defence does mean that the professionals aren't able to make it as clear as they want to make it that positive parenting is the way that they'd like families to go. So, I think this will be a great advantage to health visitors, and, obviously, they support it strongly, because they're trying to encourage parents not to use physical punishment now, but with their hands slightly tied behind their back, because the defence does exist.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "That's great, that's a good thing, but the concern we've got is that half the parents across Wales are not accessing the Healthy Child Wales programme, and in my community, within the Aneurin Bevan health board area, 80 per cent of parents aren't accessing the Healthy Child Wales programme. So, are there concerns that, if you rely too much on that process for communication, then parents, particularly in the early years, will be left out?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "We've got to rely on a range of ways of reaching parents, and I think that there are other times when there is a much higher ratio of children and families seen. But I think we've had that discussion with the mapping exercise that we've already mentioned, that we're going to identify where there are gaps or where we can do more, and that's where we will identify this.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I think as well that that figure relates to one contact point across the whole of the Healthy Child Wales programme, not the Healthy Child Wales programme as a whole. Maybe we could come back with some further information about the contacts, because I'm—. That figure—",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "The percentage relates to the contact at age three and a half, but that is exactly the kind of age when you'd expect more children to—. If they were going to be smacked, it would be at that sort of age, wouldn't it, really? So, that is a concern for the committee, really, in terms of coverage.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I can appreciate that, although I would—. Midwives, health visitors and others working with families would actually be giving those messages, core messages, about setting boundaries, managing behaviour, discipline, positive parenting, right from the very beginning. So, reliance on that single point of contact at that one age point is not necessarily the most appropriate, because I think there's a period from birth through to, actually, later as well, when those key health messages, those key messages around positive parenting, are and can be given. As the Minister said, we will be mapping a lot of this, but we can give you some more advice on that, if that would be helpful, about the types of messages that are given during that period of time.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I think that would be helpful. I've got some supplementaries on this, because I think the committee is concerned that at a key opportunity at age three and a half, a big chunk of families aren't having that contact that they should expect with their health visitor, really. Suzy, then Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. It's also a time in their child's life when they're likely to be spending time not with their parents, in school or early years. And I just wanted a bit of clarification from you, Minister, on what you were saying to Hefin David about training here. I got the sense you thought this could just be slipped in as a paragraph in existing guidance, but I'm not clear about what happens to a teacher who is told by a child that they've been smacked, and they decide that they're not going to report that—will they get into trouble over that? If it's part of a bigger picture that a teacher should have picked up, that's different, but, if a child tells a teacher, 'Oh, Mammy smacked me because I did such and such', is that teacher going to get into trouble if they don't report that to the police?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "If that happens now, the teacher is expected to report that now. I think they usually call in social services.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, it goes to social services.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "But that clarity is needed as well.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. That is what happens now, so would you expect a teacher to do it, yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. All right, thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I'm just interested to hear a bit more about the mapping exercise that you've referred to, which I think is really important, but it is going to show up a lot of gaps geographically, but also in service provision for different groups of families. It's all very well doing a mapping exercise, but what is the purpose of that, and how are you going to ensure that those gaps don't exist in future? Maybe we could have a note about what the timetable is for this exercise, and more in-depth understanding perhaps about what your intentions are, and how you intend to take it forward once you've done the mapping exercise.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. We absolutely acknowledge that there is a lot more work to be done, and we know that we have to work hard at this to reach every family. Obviously, the information that we've had about the Healthy Child Wales, the health boards will be monitoring that information and will be—. I think they're going to establish a project board to consider the themes that are coming out from the Healthy Child Wales, and so that will be certainly addressed there. And we will absolutely acknowledge that we expect that there will be work to be done.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And there will be investment needed, obviously, to fill in those gaps, which means a significant shift in the way Government now looks at its budget, and a shift towards that early prevention.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we all agree that early prevention is the key for happy, healthy children, and so we'll certainly consider everything that arises.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We've got some questions now on the police and the Crown Prosecution Service from Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. You've said repeatedly that the intention of this Bill isn't to criminalise parents, and I believe that that's not your intention. So, what I'm interested in hearing about is how you—or the work that you've done to satisfy yourself that the huge majority of parents that are going to be caught up in the change of this Act won't result in parents getting anywhere near the CPS, for example. Obviously, there are going to be occasions where there are recidivists who keep smacking despite perhaps earlier warnings, or families get identified as doing something far more serious with their children than this, and I'm not talking about those—I'm talking about the people who are currently protected, if I can put it like that. I'm very interested in hearing what you've got to say about out-of-court disposals and pre being charged activity. I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about the assessment and work that you've done in that area.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Right. Well, there are a number of out-of-court disposals that the police can use, because the police want to respond in a positive and proportionate way. The use of out-of-court disposals is actually a non-devolved responsibility, but we'll be working—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "That's what I wanted to ask you about.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, they are non-devolved, but we will be working with the Home Office, the Ministry of Justice, the CPS, the police and the police and crime commissioners to consider suitable interventions. And one of the main areas of focus of the National Police Chiefs' Council's national strategy is to reduce the current six disposal options to just two. And that's going to be conditional caution and community resolution, and the four Welsh police forces are going to be moving towards this two-tier approach, which they believe will make for greater consistency. So, what we're doing is we are exploring, with the police liaison unit, how we can develop a suitable diversion scheme, with a focus on advice and support on positive alternatives to physical punishment, and how we can tie that into the wider activity. And, obviously, it all depends on the individual circumstances of the case, because the other thing we're going to look at is the individual. But it's possible then we could get a diversion scheme provided through a community resolution order; it could be potentially be given instead of a caution. And so that would be—you know, parents could be referred to a scheme. So, that's what we're discussing with the police liaison unit at the moment.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for confirming that, but even that is quite far down the process from the day that a smack is reported, and, as you know, particularly as soon as the police get involved, and even social services, if a record is made of even a complaint—even if that complaint goes no further, even if you don't get anywhere near an arrest, shall we say, that is logged in certain parts of the system and will need to be revealed in certain circumstances. I'm thinking of the enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service check in particular, but there are other instances as well. Have you done any impact assessment on that, because that is a—we're talking about a situation where there's a massive impact, potentially, on an adult, when there have been no grounds at all to worry that a child's rights have been infringed, for example? It will happen in malicious reporting, but it could happen in reporting where an apparent battery has taken place, but it turns out to have been something completely different—you know, pushing a child's hand away, that sort of thing. The police are not going to want to take that any further at all, but it's on their records. How are you going to protect parents in those circumstances, within our legislative competence?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the issue of non-conviction data obviously doesn't just apply to this Bill we're bringing in; it applies to everything. So, it's something that you can look at in a general sense—that the police can visit and there's no further action, but that could be for anything—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "But this is very sensitive, this area.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "—and it's still logged. But, obviously, this does have an issue in terms of, particularly, the DBS checks and if you needed an enhanced certificate, if you wanted to be a teacher, a childcare worker, or those sorts of occupations. But, when disclosing information held locally, the police follow the quality assurance framework, and information must pass certain tests, which are related to considerations of relevance, substantiality and proportionality, and considerations of the safety aspects as well of disclosing information. And the police must record their thought process, their rationale, explaining how and why they reached all of their conclusions and their decisions. And this information is then assessed by the chief officer to determine whether it's reasonable to believe that it's relevant, and whether, in their opinion, it ought to be disclosed. Information should only be disclosed if it meets both of those requirements. So—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Is that in all jobs, though, because my understanding is that there are certain professions where that exemption doesn’t apply, and they’re likely to be the ones that are really relevant to the removal of the defence? So, I’m not talking about, I don't know, people who might work as volunteers; I’m literally talking about teachers and doctors, maybe dentists.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we have done some work on this, haven’t we? Do you want to say about that, Karen?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, it does apply across all professions, and we have been in discussion with the DBS about when and how and why information would be released, and also how often. And our understanding at this moment in time is that this type of information is released only in a very, very small number of cases. I think we’re talking less than 1 per cent of cases—",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "One per cent of what figure though?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "—in the last year. It’s about 1 per cent of 2,500, something like that. I haven’t got the exact figures with me.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Okay, but it helps us to understand the general amount—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, it’s about two, three, four cases in a year where this type of information is disclosed. It’s information that, obviously, we have got, but I think it’s really important to understand that this is a really rigorous process that the police and the DBS have in place. They consider everything in the round before they would even consider actually releasing any information that's non-conviction information in relation to employment.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "But this is a new consideration for them. They haven't tested their ability to get their judgment right on this one yet. Are you concerned that, in order to be on the safe side, if I can put it like that, there's an increased likelihood of disclosure—which actually might disappear over time, because there's an opportunity to exercise judgment more frequently and get the balance right?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think they do have to consider non-conviction information now and some of that non-conviction information may be in relation to physical punishment of a child. I think you've received evidence from the police saying that there are 18,000 or so incidents in one police force area alone, where information is potentially on their records, and yet we understand that a very, very small proportion of non-conviction information is released to an employer during a recruitment process. So, our expectation, based on that information, would be that it would remain at a very low level.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And just to finish off on this one: we don't have legislative competence in this particular area, so we are relying on goodwill and the conversations that you have, which I'm sure are very productive. What will happen if we start getting instances where perhaps that judgment hasn't been exercised correctly? There's nothing, as a Government, you can do to challenge that particularly.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I can only emphasise the very close working relationships we've got and I think will continue to build as we introduce this legislation. We've got it all set up and it's been very productive so far.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I appreciate that. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you, Suzy. Just before we move on, could I ask, then—? Maybe the committee would be grateful for a note providing an update on the latest work that the Government has done on out-of-court disposals, including estimated costs. We'd also appreciate a note on the Welsh Government's discussions with the DBS and the figures that Karen just referred to, if that's okay, please. Thank you. The next questions are from Hefin on resources.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "When you first appeared before the committee at the beginning of Stage 1, I wasn't hugely reassured by the evidence you gave on the resource implications of the Bill. It seems to be relying, to a great extent, on the limited number of reporting of cases that's likely to happen, as we've seen in the evidence we've received. That's largely been recognised by the stakeholders who've given evidence, but isn't there still the potential for a degree of unknown costs to come into this, and what planning have you done for those unknown costs—those unforeseen costs—that might occur?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I feel that—. You're right that there always could be unknown costs, but we are doing our very best to prepare to cover all eventualities that we can anticipate. For example, I've committed to fund the high-intensity awareness-raising campaign, and committed to carry out a mapping exercise to establish whether there are any gaps in the parenting support. We know that evidence from other countries does show that, if we bring in this legislation and raise awareness, it does change people's attitudes, so there may, in the long term, be a saving if we do that. But we are committed to working with organisations to put in place arrangements so that we're able to collect the data so that we know what the impact is. But I just have to repeat that all our evidence, looking at other countries, is that there isn't a huge increase in the workload.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "No. I think you can make the argument for precedent elsewhere, but you can also say that every country has a different culture and approach to how it raises children, and therefore there'll be a number of differences as well. The explanatory memorandum raises some specific cases. It talks about unknown costs in relation to social services as a result of a potential increasing referrals; family courts and CAFCASS Cymru as a result of a potential increase in allegations, which we talked about; the CPS and a higher volume of requests for charging advice from the police; and the review of training and guidance offered by organisations involved in the safeguarding of children. All those things we've talked around, but what would be reassuring for the committee is, perhaps, if you could give us a broad figure, which the Government would say, 'We'll need to set this number aside in order to be prepared for the implementation of this Bill.' Would you be willing to present that at some point during the passage of the Bill?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we have to rely on what the people who run those organisations are telling us. Certainly, the CPS say that they can cope. CAFCASS say that they can cope. And it is very difficult to anticipate what impact there would be on social services. The people who are managing social services say they don't anticipate a big impact. I think the other important thing to recognise is that this area of work is already dealt with by all these people. So, the CPS is already involved in changing its guidance all the time, so it's not going to be much of an impact for them to actually have to do that over this issue. Social services are already dealing with calls and referrals about the physical punishment of children already, including reasonable punishment. And so it's not a new category of work. I accept that we're working in a situation where there's a general pressure on public services, but I think this area that we're legislating on here is part of what everybody's doing already. And so I don't see it as such a big thing in terms of impact.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "That's a perfectly reasonable answer, but then what about providing a ballpark figure for a kind unforeseen fund that you might set aside?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it's possible to do that. We have to measure it as we go along. We've got to get the data. The data will show—. We've got to have baseline data to begin with, and that's what's so difficult to get, because we can't get that from other countries. Only New Zealand recorded any incidents before they actually brought in the legislation, and they did that for three months beforehand. That's why we've been looking at New Zealand a lot of the time, just to make predictions. But we've got to rely on the data. One of these sub-groups is looking at data, so that sub-group should be very productive, I think. And then we will be actually able to see what happens. But I don't think we can respond to that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, that's fine. And the last question, with regard to resourcing, just to understand the process of how this ties into the wider budgeting—did you and your officials sit down with the Finance Minister and the First Minister's officials to discuss the costing of this? I imagine so. What was the nature of that kind of discussion?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Some of the costings are decided. For example, the advertising, the awareness-raising campaign—that's £2.2 million over six years. So the decision has been made about that. I don't know if there were further discussions right at the beginning of this process.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "There have been discussions. The discussions tend to be positive. We can't really say any more beyond that at this moment in time.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And who were the discussions with?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "There has been an in-the-round discussion before the Bill was introduced, at which the First Minister and the finance Minister and others were present.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And I imagine it's gone to Cabinet for discussion.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "The consultation and then the Bill going forward has been discussed by Cabinet, and gone through Cabinet processes, as you would expect.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "So, are we able to say that the Government as a whole is satisfied that there isn't going to be a huge impact on resource as a result of the introduction of this Bill?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think what you can say is that the Government are satisfied that they are supportive of the Bill and have put the Bill forward. I think you can say that.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Did you want to come in?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Are you satisfied that that amount of money—£2.5 million over five years [correction: £2.2 million over six years]—is going to be enough? From memory, with the organ donation Bill, the amount was something in the region of around £7 million that was set aside, I think. Or maybe I'm misremembering that, but—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it was about £4 million—",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "£4 million—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Something like that.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "So, there's a disparity, then. That was a few years ago. You've got to reach a lot of people, haven't you, with this, including some pretty hard-to-reach groups as well. Are you confident that amount of money is going to be enough?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We are as confident as we can be at this moment in time. We are obviously going to be working with focus groups and others to look at what sorts of messaging there will need to be. But in terms of the initial stages of the awareness campaign, we are, as I say, as confident as we can be, based on what we know.",
"speaker": "Karen Cornish"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Hefin, on human rights.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I just wanted to ask a very specific question on human rights, because, you know, when it comes to appeals, there are a variety of articles under the European Convention on Human Rights that might be used with regard to a challenge to the law as enacted. So, I'll ask you the question very directly. For the purpose of the record, can you outline to us the assessment you've made in preparation for this Bill in relation to the balancing of relevant articles of the European Convention on Human Rights, including but not limited to article 8 on the respect for private life; article 9, freedom of conscience and religion; article 3, the right to protection from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment and punishment; and article 14, protection from discrimination?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. We have given a great deal of thought, as you can imagine, to the human rights considerations as set out in our impact assessments, and it's ultimately a question how we find a balance between the rights of children as well as parents, who both enjoy rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. So, article 3 is the prohibition of torture: 'No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.' In ensuring that children are protected from physical punishment in the same way as adults, the Bill is following that requirement of article 3, and the positive obligations on states to protect individuals from ill treatment or punishment that is contrary to article 3. And then, in terms of article 8, right to respect for private and family life, 'Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.' Some of those who are opposed to the prohibition of physical punishment have cited article 8, private and family life, and also cited article 9, freedom of thought, conscience and religion, as potentially protecting the right for parents to decide how best to punish their children, including the use of physical punishment. That is used as an argument by those who are opposed to stopping physical punishment. But these rights are not absolute, and action can therefore be taken that interferes with them, provided the interference is justified. It's the Government's view that the Bill's provisions are necessary in order to protect the rights and freedom of children. We are looking here from the point of view of children. The Bill's provisions are regarded as proportionate measures, and given the fundamental importance of protecting children from inhumane or degrading punishment or other ill treatment, we do consider that we have balanced the rights in a proportionate way. And then, article 10, freedom of expression, and article 14, prohibition of discrimination—these rights are not absolute and action can be taken, therefore, that interferes with them, providing the interference is justified. We don't think it's clear that article 10 and 14 rights are being interfered with, but even if they are, we consider we can justify the interference in order to protect the rights and freedoms of children. I don't know, Emma, whether you wanted to add anything to any of that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Only that we set out—. I think it's the equality impact assessment that sets out the positive and negative impacts of the proposal and the balancing of the rights enjoyed by both parents and children.",
"speaker": "Emma Gammon"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. There are some questions from Vikki on awareness raising. Can I ask for concise questions please?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. So, last week, the Welsh Government published its baseline survey of public attitudes to physical punishment of children, and that showed us that 58 per cent of the public already thought the law did not allow parents to smack their children. You could look at this two ways. You could think glass half full, which suggests that we don't have many people to try and convince of that. But on the flipside of that, would you suggest, perhaps, that that data shows there is a challenge faced by the Welsh Government to make sure the public understand the proposed legislation, given that more than half of the population, according to those statistics, have a complete misunderstanding of the current law?",
"speaker": "Vikki Howells AM"
},
{
"content": "Certainly, I think that finding is reflected in people I speak to who do think that the law does not allow parents to hit their children. I mean, I'm personally very reassured that 58 per cent of the public think the law doesn't allow that to happen because I think, well, they're not hitting their children, so we're over 50 per cent of where we want to get. So, I think that is a good thing, but it does highlight the fact that the legislation, as it is, is confused. I think it makes a very good case for saying that we do need to simplify this legislation. We need much greater clarity in the law for professionals who are working and trying to help parents, and for parents themselves. So, I think that this is a case for saying that it's very important that we carry out this legislation to make it all much clearer. But I am pleased that 58 per cent of the public think the law has already changed.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "One of the most consistent messages that this committee has heard is that the proposed law won't work unless there's a significant campaign to raise awareness with members of the public. We know that Sweden went to considerable lengths to publicise the change in the law there, and I can remember attending a cross-party group, chaired by yourself, Deputy Minister, where we heard evidence from Ireland to the same effect, as well—the necessity of the public awareness campaign. You already said that a duty on the face of the Bill to raise awareness is not necessary, but then, in your answer to Suzy Davies, you said you would consider putting some things on the face of the Bill. So, can you explain to us your key arguments surrounding this issue?",
"speaker": "Vikki Howells AM"
},
{
"content": "I absolutely agree that it's essential that we do have a big awareness campaign, because all the research we've had shows, in fact, that if you don't have the awareness campaign, the legislation won't be as effective. So, we need a joint effort; I'm totally committed to doing that. I've said it publicly here, and I'm saying it again. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to have it on the face of the Bill, but as I said to Suzy, I'm prepared to consider anything the committee is bringing forward because I'm very keen for this Bill to progress through this process and to learn from it. So, I'm saying that I'm prepared to consider it.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, that's very useful. And finally, New Zealand is an oft-cited example, mentioned in the explanatory memorandum as well. So, we know New Zealand prohibited physical punishment in 2007, but yet in a non-binding referendum two years later, 87.5 per cent of voters voted 'no' in response to the question, 'Should a smack, as part of good parental correction, be a criminal offence in New Zealand?' On what basis, then, are you confident that this sort of polarisation won't happen in Wales, especially considering the current political climate there is out there?",
"speaker": "Vikki Howells AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, what we trying to do is we're trying to take this forward in as consensual a way as we possibly can. We're very keen that we listen to the views of everybody. All those people who don't agree with us, who are a minority, it seems, we want to hear what they've got to say, taking very seriously all the points that are raised here by the committee. I haven't seen any sign of any polarisation in any way that I would be concerned about, because, certainly, the people who do oppose the Bill, I've met with them, I know they've given evidence to your committee and the views of parents have been taken into account. We completely accept that we want to listen to the views of people who don't agree. I hope that they then, if the Bill does become law, will then accept and respect the democratic process. So, I don't feel concerned, really, about that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Janet, a brief supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I started at the very beginning, Deputy Minister, with the fact that there's an overwhelming majority of parents—those who are naturally charged with raising their children—against this Bill. So, there is a polarisation. We've gone out to survey on it and the overwhelming response from parents is that they do not support this Bill. And I think that needs to be put on the record.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that our representative surveys that we've carried out do show considerable support for the Bill—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "But not from parents.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "—particularly from parents with young children under seven. That's where the support does lie. And it's older people who are much less likely to support the legislation, and I think it's all linked to what many of us were used to, what happened in our childhoods, when it was accepted and it was part of the time that this was what you did. But we have moved on now and we're in a different era. So, I think many older people, because they smacked their children or were smacked themselves, have felt a degree of resistance, perhaps, to the Bill. But as I say, I think times have changed. We want to respect children's rights and what happened in the past is in the past now, and we want to have a new era for respecting children's human rights and dignity. And I think I'll go back to what I said: I don't see that children's rights to dignity is going to happen if a big person is able to hit a small person.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Just to clarify, Janet's referring to the committee's consultation and the percentage of responses that we've had.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we had a specific section, but because time is moving quite fast, perhaps you could give us a note in response. Some witnesses saw a risk that the Bill could have a disproportionate impact on specific groups—women, because they are the main carers, minority ethnic groups and very young children. So, if it would be possible for us to receive a note as to whether you agree that this will have a disproportionate impact upon them, and if so, what would be the mitigating measures you would take. But, specifically, we have heard from several witnesses and the equality impact assessment of the Bill does acknowledge that a low income is a risk factor in the use of physical punishment and that this could have a negative impact specifically on this group of parents. Now, we know that Flying Start is available to try to mitigate that to some degree, but of course not all low-income families live within a Flying Start area, so what mitigating work will you be undertaking in that regard?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. We are aware of the issue of reaching out to certain groups. We are running focus groups where we will be taking the different groups into account, and we will work with different groups, communities and organisations to make sure that they are aware of the change in the law, and we will—I know you want to move on—but we will write to you about anything more specific.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Just finally from me, then, you referred to the mapping exercise, which is very welcomed by the committee. Should that mapping exercise identify gaps? Will the Welsh Government be making a commitment to provide funding to plug those gaps so that there is a universal offer of parenting support for families in Wales?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We will certainly consider it at that point.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We've come to the end of our time. We've covered a great deal of ground. Thank you, all, for attending and for answering such a diverse range of questions. As usual, you will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting, but thank you very much to the three of you for your time this morning.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, and thank you for all the questions and the wide range that we covered. Thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, providing additional information following the evidence session on 2 May for this Bill. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services in response to the committee's letter, which requested information on CAFCASS Cymru's response on specific points of interest in relation to the Bill. And paper to note 3 is a letter from the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services making the committee aware of research undertaken in relation to public attitudes to physical punishment. Can I ask if Members are happy to note those?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just make one observation? I think it's on the first of the letters, which is the difficulty that there's been in trying to disaggregate the evidence of smacking as isolated incidents as compared to smacking as part of a bigger pattern of behaviour. I think that's worth noting on the record.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you, Suzy. Item 4, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_14 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"7"
]
],
"topic": "Reasons of people thinking the current law is unclear and evidence of physical punishment is harmful"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"8",
"11"
]
],
"topic": "Discussions on the balance between clarity of the definition and simplicity of the Bill"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"14",
"25"
]
],
"topic": "Discussions on the implementation of the Bill and its impact on other services"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"30",
"37"
]
],
"topic": "List of unintended consequences for this Bill"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"39",
"86"
]
],
"topic": "Specific questions and answers on implementation for social services"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"87",
"92"
]
],
"topic": "Specific questions and answers on this Bill's impact on education"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"93",
"103"
]
],
"topic": "Discussions on importance of awareness raising"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This was a Children, Young People and Education Committee, and it was the sixth scrutiny session on the Children Bill, specifically on Abolition of Defense of Reasonable Punishment. To start this meeting, Alastair Birch shared opinion on why people think the current law was inefficient and unclear, and then Sally Jenkins listed some evidence that physical punishment was actually harmful. Then they had some discussions on how to balance the need for greater clarity around the definition of what constitutes corporal punishment, and the importance of simplicity in the Bill. This discussion led to a further discussion on the implementation phase for that nuancing, and its impact on other services. After sharing all of these positive feedbacks in terms of the Bill and its intention, they had some discussions on unintended consequences for this Bill. Then some specific questions on implementation for social services, and its impact on education were proposed and answered. Finally, they had some discussions on the importance of awareness raising.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Huw David thought there were no unintended consequences if the Bill was implemented carefully with the right resources. Then he talked about the increasing number of looked-after children in Wales, and Sally Jenkins helped to explain the reasons for this. Alastair Birch thought that there would be an increased focus on the UNCRC. In addition, children need to be part of the discussion in terms of children having a discussion around this point, which would affect them. Improving the voice of the child in any educational context would be good and powerful for children, which would be a positive unintended consequence, and it could reinvigorate some of the voice of the child discussion within various contexts.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about the unintended consequences for this Bill?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"30",
"37"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Huw David thought if this Bill was implemented carefully with the right resources, there might not be unintended consequences. However, for every piece of legislation, it would be about the implementation and the cultural change. Currently, the number of looked-after children in Wales were growing a lot, and this was because of the most appalling neglect and abuse. Huw David did not want this focus to be lost.",
"query": "What did Huw David say about the unintended consequences for this Bill?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"31",
"31"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "There were many reasons that had led to the increasing numbers of children becoming looked after across England and Wales, and it was hard to identify a single reason. Increased austerity was a part of this. In addition, an increased awareness of adverse childhood experiences and the emphasis of the impact on children of domestic abuse also affected this. It was also because of our understanding of what happened to children in those households. Besides, changes in our practice with colleagues in the judiciary, changes in the police service, and changes in the preventative services were other elements.",
"query": "What did people say about what caused the raising of the number of the looked-after children when talking about the unintended consequences?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"33",
"33"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The first question was about whether members of the public should be encouraged to contact social services departments if they saw a child being smacked. Sally Jenkins answered that they had a duty to report this. Second question was about to what extent \"Anyone accused or convicted of assaulting a child will be subject to long-term social services involvement in their family and social stigma\" accurately. Sally Jenkins said that this was not punitive approaches from social services, and their aim was to get in and get out, and let families find their own solutions. Third question was about whether there was a need for legislation if natural behavior and the culture was changing. Huw David mentioned that there was already existing legislation that covered those children who were abused by parents. However, the threshold was not clear enough for children. Then they outlined the practical ways in which social services' interaction with parents would change because of this proposed law. The last question was about the assessment of how this Bill would impact on emergency and out of hours local authority services. Sally Jenkins said that they had out-of-hours provision and emergency duty teams already across Wales that operate 24/7. And there was no doubt that they exist and they work closely with police colleagues.",
"query": "Summarize the questions and answers on the implementation for social services.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"39",
"86"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "First, Sally Jenkins made it clear that very few numbers of families where they had long-term intervention currently. What they do was they go in for short periods in families' lives to work with them and their family members. Their aim was to get in and get out. In terms of long-term intervention, they wanted families to find their own solutions. To conclude, this was not a punitive approach from social services.",
"query": "What Sally Jenkins answered to what extent was \"Anyone accused or convicted of assaulting a child will be subject to long-term social services involvement in their family and social stigma\" accurately when discussing the implementation for social services?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"47",
"47"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Huw David said that there had already existed legislation that covered those children who were currently being assaulted and abused by their parents which went on a daily basis. However, the threshold of being abused was not clear, and children might be told that being smacked by their parents was acceptable. However, it was necessary to know where the line is, and this would be a step forward.",
"query": "Summarize Huw David' s opinion on whether there was a need for legislation if natural behavior and the culture is changing when discussing the implementation for social services.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"51",
"53"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "There were totally two questions proposed on impact on education. First, Jayne Bryant asked how confident they were that teachers and others working in those educational settings would be clear about how to support the implementation of this Bill. Alastair Birch responded that training requirements for all professionals in education settings were clear. The awareness needed to be clear for educational professionals that the duty to report was there. The second question was about whether there was a risk that those in education settings would have a key role in referring more parents to social services, which could cause potential harm to relationships and cause mistrust. Alastair Birch disagreed that this was a matter of mistrust. He thought if a professional believed there was significant harm to that child, they were under a duty to report that to social care.",
"query": "Summarize the specific questions and answers on the impact on education.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"47",
"58"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Training requirements for all professionals in education settings were clear. The bible in terms of education professionals included 'keeping learners safe'. Therefore, the awareness needed to be clear for educational professionals that the duty to report was there. When they feel the significant harm happened, they should report this and it would go to the childcare assessment team. And schools were fundamental in the support for the families, since they had the relationships with the families.",
"query": "How confident Alastair Birch was that teachers and others working in those educational settings would be clear about how to support the implementation of this Bill?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"89",
"89"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Alastair Birch did not think it was a matter of mistrust. Alastair Birch said that part of the work with families, and most of the referrals they made were with parental consent. This consent was a key element. For those that were not referred at threshold, it would come back to school for some support.",
"query": "How did Alastair Birch respond to whether there was a risk that those in education settings would have a key role in referring more parents to social services, which causes mistrust?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"90",
"91"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The first question was about how they should make it clear that the legislation is not trying to criminalize parents, and who should be responsible for this. Sally Jenkins responded that those drivers in relation to that awareness raising should be the key. There were a lot of ways for this including preventative services, universal services and etc. Then they had some discussions on whether the awareness raising should be on the face of the Bill and who should pay for this. Huw David was not sure whether being on the Bill was necessary, but he said it was worth consideration. Welsh Government Ministers should have a duty on this.",
"query": "Summarize their discussions on awareness raising.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"94",
"104"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Sally Jenkins said that this was very broad. Colleagues in education, in social care, in preventative services, and also Welsh Government and the National Assembly were key to this. There were lots of routes that could go through in terms of raising awareness, including preventative services, universal services and regional safeguarding boards and the national safeguarding boards. It was about that wider issue of awareness raising, and using all of those avenues would help us to do that in the broadest sense.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion on how to make it clear to parents that the legislation is not trying to criminalize parents.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"94",
"95"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Huw David said he was not sure whether this was necessary or not since he was not a legislator. Obviously, he thought there was an inherent interest in Welsh Government raising awareness. This was worthy of consideration. Then he said this should be a duty on Welsh Government Ministers.",
"query": "What did Huw David respond to whether this needed to be on the face of the Bill?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"96",
"103"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and Jack Sargeant and I'm very pleased to welcome Jayne Bryant back, who is substituting for Jack today. Are there any declarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay, thank you. Item 2, then, this morning, is our sixth scrutiny session on the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill. I'm very pleased to welcome our witnesses this morning: Sally Jenkins, who is chair of All Wales Heads of Children’s Services and is here representing the Association of Directors of Social Services; Alastair Birch, who is senior system leader for equalities and safeguarding at Pembrokeshire County Council, who is here representing the Association of Directors of Education Wales; and Councillor Huw David, who is the Welsh Local Government Association spokesperson for health and social care and leader of Bridgend County Borough Council. So, thank you all for attending this morning. We're very pleased to have you here. We've got a lot of ground to cover, so, if you're happy, we'll go straight into questions and I'll start just by asking about your general support for the Bill, which is outlined in the evidence. Can you just explain why you think the current law is ineffective or unclear?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Bore da—bore da, bawb. So, I'm Alastair Birch. The statement, really, from ADEW is that the rights of the child should be educated and achieved, really, under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. The current legislation has been criticised, obviously, by the UN concerning the defence of reasonable punishment still being within our current legislation. So, we will always—ADEW will always—advocate that the rights of the child be upheld, so that is really the fundamental aspect in terms of the statement from ADEW, and the position of ADEW is that the rights of the child are fundamental in this process. And there are certain articles—. I know that the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011 made sure that article 3 and article 4, article 12 and article 37 were a focus in terms of making sure that the best interests of the child were put first, that children expressing their views and opinions was a priority. And we know, for safeguarding purposes, that the express opinions of the child and the voice of the child are a fundamental aspect of any safe environment, whether it be a school or college. So, that is—the position is really following that legal position under the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure.",
"speaker": "Alastair Birch"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Nothing to add at this stage, no?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'll just add, on behalf of ADSS and on behalf of children's services and social services more widely, for us, this is not a change in our position, this is not new; this is a position that we, on behalf of the leaders of social services across Wales, have taken over many years, going back 20, 25 years. I think what we would say is that we really welcome this Bill and we welcome the proposed change for the clarity it would bring—the clarity that it would bring for children, for parents and for professionals. I think what we would recognise is that this is a very little-used piece of legislation, so it's rare, it's not as if this is something that is going to cast great change across the scene for children and families in Wales, but what it will do is represent a change in the reality of how we care and nurture our children. I would echo absolutely what Alastair has said in terms of the rights of the child, but equally, in terms of all of our policies in Wales in terms of promoting well-being for children, this has to be key. So, for us, this is about a natural progression of change in how we care for our children in Wales. For children's services at the very sharp end of this world, for us, it brings a true clarity. This continues with an ambiguity in how we treat our children and how we care for our children, and the shift for us brings that very much needed clarity.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. The committee has already heard different views about whether there's clear evidence that physical punishment is harmful to children. What evidence does the work of social services provide about whether physical punishment is actually harmful?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Obviously, what you'll all be aware of is that, as part of the consultation for this Bill, the Public Policy Institute did a further piece of research to look at the impact of physical punishment on children. A number of things that we know—we know from across the world that the evidence is that introducing legislation or changing legislation in this way improves children's positions within their families. What we know is that children themselves, as Alastair has already referred to, really find physical punishment demeaning and harmful, and for children it is an emotionally damaging experience. Now, there may be disagreement about that, there will be different views on that, but that's the voice of the child in this debate. The voice of the child is very clear that physical punishment is for them harmful. I think what we would also say is that, in the world that we work in, it's part of a continuum, and, whilst this is an element of how children are cared for, what we see is a continuum where an acceptance of how we treat children in a particular way perpetuates throughout our work. By changing this, it helps that shift to that absolute recognition that our children must be cared for in a way that is physically safe in all dimensions for them.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We've had evidence from the equal protection network that the reasonable punishment defence undermines child protection and fails to protect children because it permits an arbitrary level of violence, which invades children's physical integrity, making it a potential pathway to more serious physical or sexual abuse, and you did refer to that just now. Is there anything you want to add on that?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I would echo that. I think there is something in this that is about our culture, about how we see our children. It is about how we see our smallest and most vulnerable people, and if it is acceptable it opens the door to those other, more extreme versions of violence, which then complicates the issue for us. This is about clarity, and, whilst there is an argument that this is a small episode for a child, it's not a small episode for a child, it is a major episode for a child, and I think absolutely, as you said, the potential for it then to lead on, and over gradation and time to increase the risk for children, is clearly there.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. The final question from me: your written evidence emphasises the need for greater clarity around the definition of what constitutes corporal punishment, but that contrasts with what we've been told by the children's commissioner and the equal protection network, who've emphasised the importance of simplicity in the Bill. How do you respond to that view, and is what you're calling for essential to be on the face of the Bill?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "It's not essential for it to be on the face of the Bill. What we would like to see is discussion within the implementation phase for that nuancing. Absolutely agree in terms of simplicity—I think that is really important—and I've already mentioned clarity. What we don't want to do is further confuse the position. We know that the legislation in different countries has done that, and there are ways that you can do it, but what we would welcome is an opportunity during the implementation phase for discussion.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "And, as a principle, obviously we would welcome full involvement, and we know there's the commitment from Welsh Government to full involvement in the implementation, because, as with every piece of legislation, implementation is the most important part, and we would want to ensure there is that commitment to a major awareness-raising campaign, and there is that from Welsh Government, because we need to take families, carers and parents with us on this. Also we need to ensure that there is that support available to parents and carers that do sometimes struggle with parenting, and that needs to be a universal offer across Wales. If we're to progress with this, that has to be an option that is offered to every parent in Wales.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Local authorities have already been very heavily involved in terms of looking at this Bill and exploring what the issues are and the discussions and looking at what the implications from a local authority perspective will be, as Huw describes, both in terms of the awareness raising, early support and intervention and prevention services for families against the backdrop of the current issues that we have in local government, but also awareness raising—because absolutely it is key that families come with us on this journey. This is not an imposition. This is embracing a culture and a value system for our children.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. I've got some questions now from Dawn Bowden on the implementation of the Bill.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. So, you've pre-empted me, Huw.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Right. Sorry. I've got good eyesight; I can't see—. [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "You've already said, obviously, that you're looking towards working with Welsh Government in terms of its implementation. What's been your role so far in terms of the implementation of the Bill—local authorities generally, now? Have you had a role? Has Welsh Government been involving you in discussions around the introduction of the Bill so far?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, obviously we were consulted—a key consultee—but also our officials have worked very closely with Welsh Government officials to make sure this is implemented successfully, if it is progressed.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "Our involvement with this, from a social services perspective, goes back over two years, directly in working towards this point, never mind the history in terms of work towards this area. But, very directly in relation to this Bill, we were first involved at least two years ago, to recollect, and that was in a series of workshops with other agencies, for example Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service Cymru and the police, and looking in real depth at what the implications would be for us as agencies to look at what the likely trajectory would be in terms of our pathways for referral into our services and what that might mean for us. And then particularly, for example, with CAFCASS Cymru in relation to private law, what the fallout might be, and then what, if anything—and that's the discussion that we need to have—that could mean for children's services in particular, given the pressures that we're already under. So, we've been in constant, I suppose, involvement in terms of the Bill already, as part of the consultation, in terms of the focus groups and in terms of direct work with Welsh Government officials to take this forward. And we are absolutely committed to continuing with that work.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay. You touched there on the pressures that you're already under, which we fully appreciate, but you also mentioned in answers to Lynne Neagle earlier on that you welcomed the Bill in terms of its clarity. So, are you confident that the Bill can be implemented without any major impact on your capacity to deal with it?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "We've done—. A number of local authorities—my own included, Newport City Council, has done some work to look at what the likely impact would be and then actually to look at what some of that costing would need to be. Further work is needed on that area, and that needs to be carried out during the implementation phase. I think what we've done is we've looked internationally at what the impact has been elsewhere when similar legislation has been introduced to try and gauge, but that's difficult to do in terms of comparable nations and size and also different systems. And obviously our approach in terms of children and pedagogy is very different from some of the nations that have already done this. I wouldn't like to say one way or the other, because I think, in terms of that culture shift, it could be a double impact on us in terms of increased referrals because of increased awareness, but it could also be, I suppose, as Huw alludes to, that, if we're looking at ensuring greater awareness of preventative services and support services for parents, actually people coming to the fore and asking us for those services as well. So, at this stage, I think what we would want to say is that we continue to be fully involved in the implementation phase, to look at what the cost implications for that could be, and not just for the local authorities but also the police, CAFCASS Cymru, for third sector organisations involved in preventative services. I don't think any of that should undermine the position in terms of children and their rights within our society. So, a difficult answer, in the sense that—",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "No, I understand. What you're saying is that this is a piece of legislation that, in your view, is a good piece of legislation. It's setting out to, hopefully, achieve what the purpose of it is and you will deliver what you need to. Can I ask you whether, then, you've also given thought to the impact on—we've talked about social services, but the impact on other services, like housing, education and so on? You're obviously coming at it from slightly different angles in other sections.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "We are part of the universal service for children, and we very much work in co-operation with the WLGA and our social care colleagues, and we've been part of that consultation. In terms of education, the main changes, or adaptations, would be around training and awareness. And, in terms of the Bill, there needs to be the clarity—ambiguity would be bad—in terms of making sure that safeguarding leads within all schools have the right training and support. So, really, that's the key element there, and then obviously the preventative services for the parents that schools can signpost, and sometimes possibly even host, in terms of being community schools. These positive parenting approaches that—. I have colleagues who have worked in that area for many years and see the benefits in how those positive parenting approaches make a difference to families.",
"speaker": "Alastair Birch"
},
{
"content": "So, from your point of view, it's awareness raising, is it?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "It's awareness raising; it's making sure that professionals are fully briefed on necessary changes, that there's very little ambiguity, that we are aware that—. We still have that duty to report whenever there is any safeguarding concern. That'll still be part of the all-Wales child protection procedures. That won't change, and that duty is always going to be there for all our professionals. But that awareness raising and training will be the key, and then, obviously, working in co-operation with our colleagues.",
"speaker": "Alastair Birch"
},
{
"content": "Okay, I understand that. Have you been given an indication of how long you've got between Royal Assent and implementation, and whether you've thought through any of the key milestones that need to be implemented?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "There's a group proposed that would be a strategic leadership group in the steering group that we're part of, which is now laying out what would happen after Royal Assent if that is given. So, we will work towards that.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay. My final question, Chair, is about some of the responses we've had to this committee that say that the state should not get involved in family life—I'm sure you've heard those views—unless it's in the most serious circumstances. To what extent do you think that this Bill undermines the existing local authority responsibilities, or don't you?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "The state's paramount role is to protect children from harm. That is our legal responsibility, it's our moral responsibility, and we will discharge that. And there is obviously a view—it's a view that is enshrined in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child—that physical punishment, physical harm to a child is harm to a child, and we should be preventing that and act to prevent that. That would be the position of the Welsh Local Government Association, and we also respect the mandate that Members of the National Assembly for Wales have too. And we believe that children can be raised by parents without recourse to physical punishment, effectively, and we'd support parents in that. We do not believe that in the 50 nations across the world where such legislation exists that the state is interfering in family life unnecessarily. We believe this action reflects a cultural change, a sea change that's taken place in Wales over the last 30 to 40 years, where the vast majority of parents now say that they do not use it themselves, they do not support it, and we believe this is actually a reflection of what has happened in Welsh society. We support Assembly Members in the view that the natural progression of that is that children's rights are protected across Wales.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "So, I've got largely positive feedback from you in terms of the Bill and its intentions, and so on. Do you foresee any unintended consequences for this Bill?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "If we implement it carefully, if we implement it with the right resources, then I hope not. I think not. But as with every piece of legislation, it is about the implementation, it is about the cultural change as well, and that's why I cannot overstress the importance of making sure that resources are made available, because our social services departments—children's social services in particular—are overstretched. They are at breaking point—make no bones about it—and they are dealing with children who are facing serious harm and neglect. We are having record numbers of contacts from police, from teachers, from doctors and, of course, from children themselves who are experiencing that harm and neglect. And obviously, we want to focus our energy and our attention on those children. Equally, though, we don't want to lose sight of those families and children that are experiencing significant problems, but who we want to support through our early intervention and prevention programmes, and that is why it is important that there is investment in those programmes, so that children do not end up in that terrible position where we have to, for their safety, take them from their birth families to protect them. And the reality is, in Wales, that we are doing that to more children than we've done for a long time, and the numbers are growing across Wales. And that is only because of the most appalling neglect and abuse, because there is no way that any judge would permit us to act to make a child safe if it was not for that fact, and the facts are there. So, I don't want that focus to be lost, but, of course, we welcome and understand the need to progress this piece of legislation.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "That rise that you talk about here, is that due to more interventions, greater awareness, more incidents? I'm trying to link this to the Bill in terms of whether the Bill is actually going to give you more work to do in those areas.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "On the reasons for the rise in the numbers of looked-after children in Wales, which are higher than those in England, and also the numbers of contacts that we have across the local authorities, the work of the care crisis review, which was completed last year; the work of Isabelle Trowler, who's the chief social worker in England; countless research and reports that have taken place in the last 18 months; and currently the public law working group, under the auspices of the president of the family court, would all indicate that it's multifactorial. So, what you have is a range of reasons that have led to the increasing numbers of children becoming looked after across England and Wales. What you can't do is identify a single reason. There have been headlines that have said, 'Is it increased austerity?' That is clearly a part of this. Is it in Wales an increased awareness of adverse childhood experiences and the emphasis of the impact on children of, for example, domestic abuse? Is it because of our understanding of what happens to children in those households? All of that research would say it's all of those things. And then, when you also add in changes in our practice with our colleagues in the judiciary, changes in our police service, but also changes in our preventative services, you've got that whole range of elements. And there is going on across the local authorities and Welsh Government a huge amount of work to try to address and understand that, and then to ameliorate that. Children who need to be in care for safety need to be in care, but what we have to do is get to a point where fewer children come into care and we're able to protect them, firstly, and secondly where those children who are in care are cared for in a way that delivers the best possible outcomes for them. So, there is no simple answer unfortunately. I think, in terms of this Bill and unintended consequences, I agree absolutely with everything that Huw has said. My job is around children at that far end, but what this Bill does is it brings clarity. It brings a clarity even for those children at that very far end. It takes away even that point of discussion that this could possibly be okay, and I think that's important to hang on to.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Sorry.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "One unintended consequences is that I think that there will be an increased focus on the UNCRC. And, in terms of children having a discussion around this point, children need to be part of that discussion. It's something that affects them. And a key aspect of education is the voice of the child. It has become significantly—. It's changed completely in the last 10 years, and it is one of the key things in terms of us driving improvements.",
"speaker": "Alastair Birch"
},
{
"content": "Would that be something that you would be looking to do in schools?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Anything that improves the voice of the child in any educational context is good and it's very powerful for the children. And it improves their educational experiences, encouraging the opportunities for them to discuss the issues, the adverse childhood experiences that they encounter, which are significant, and it's our educational professionals that are facing this day-in, day-out. They've become a very highly trained workforce, they're ACE aware, they're trauma aware, and anything that focuses, even increases, their professionalism and understanding around a particular point, and also—. So it's a positive unintended consequence, shall we say, that it could reinvigorate some of the voice of the child discussion within various contexts.",
"speaker": "Alastair Birch"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "We've got some specific questions now on implementation for social services, from Janet Finch-Saunders.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. If this Bill becomes law, would you encourage members of the public to contact social services departments if they do see a child being smacked?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We already encourage members of the public to contact social services or the police, depending on the circumstances. Interestingly, I'm picking—",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "What, if a child is being smacked now?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. If a child is being smacked now, we would ask that people contact. We have a duty to report, as professionals. But if you were walking out, and you saw something happening to a child, in the same way as if you saw something to an adult.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Right.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "So, I think that the challenge is about—we've all probably, sadly, witnessed incidents in the doctor's reception, or in a supermarket, and we've failed to do something about it. And I think we then walk away and feel pretty guilty about that, realistically, when you see something happening to a child in a particular circumstance. I think we can't ignore the fact that a child is being assaulted in those circumstances.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. A campaign opposing this Bill, Be Reasonable Wales, have said that 'If the law is changed, the consequences for parents will be considerable.' It also says, 'Anyone accused or convicted of assaulting a child—under the new definition—' so, I suppose you could argue, a minor tap— 'will be subject to long-term social services involvement in their family and social stigma.' To what extent is this accurate, and, also, will thresholds for social services intervention change if the Bill is enacted?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "There are a number of parts to that. Firstly, in terms of long-term social services intervention in a family's life, I think, for people to be fully aware of the very few numbers of families where we have long-term intervention currently, even where there is what would be perceived as very significant abuse. What we do is we go in for short periods in families' lives, to support them to work with their strengths, to work with them and their family members. It's not about us going into families, whatever some of the public perception may be. Our aim is to get in and get out. So, in terms of long-term intervention, what we want is for families to find their own solutions. We want families to be able to work with each other, and together, and local community support, and preventative services, to be able to address issues. This is not about punitive approaches from social services. So, that's the first element. In terms of thresholds for children's services, we would not be anticipating a huge number of referrals to us. There may be a small number of referrals that come through. What we know from other nations is that it will peak and then settle. We recognise that's likely to happen. Because we also know that this is actually quite a rare occurrence currently; this is not a defence that's being used with great frequency, this is not something that is happening. And if we look at the data, we know that the incidents of children, and the number of parents who now recognise this as an acceptable form of punishment, has steadily declined over the last 15 to 20 years. So it's diminishing as it is.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "So, on that one then, is there a need for legislation that will—obviously there'll be resources for the Welsh Government and there'll be resources out of hours and things like that—is there a need for legislation if, as you say, natural behaviour and the culture is changing? Let's be honest, as you've rightly pointed out, in social services—I know in my own authority—in your own authority, you're saying that even now you're working with the police, on systematic failings within the system.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Two things. Firstly, we want legislation that reflects our society—we don't want the two to be out of kilter. That would be my first natural response: surely our legislation should be reflective of what our world is. It shouldn't be that we've got these rather confusing elements running in parallel, and that continues to perpetuate a lack of clarity and the ambiguity that we currently see. I think the other element is that, again, this is about potentially an accelerating of that awareness and that culture in our society, about how we care for our children. We've got there naturally; we've got there by the change that's happened in Wales over the last 15 to 20 years. What this does is to continue with that change and continue with that awareness and understanding of how we positively, from a strength-based approach, should care for our children, bearing in mind what's required of us in terms of the UNCRC.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Are there any comments from anyone else?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Simply to say that I think that, in terms of that clarity for the very vulnerable children out there who are currently being assaulted—seriously assaulted and abused by their parents, which goes on on a daily basis—that is already covered by existing legislation. But at the moment, they don't know, because they could be being told—and they probably are being told—by their parents that's it's okay, that they can smack their child and that that's acceptable. They don't know the difference. A young child is not going to know that difference and there is confusion about what is—. And if you asked most parents, and in fact lots of professionals, they would not be able to tell you, and probably most of you wouldn't be able to tell me exactly where is the threshold—",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "Yes, where's that line.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, at the moment, we don't know where that line is. That vulnerable child, at home, being abused by their parents, does not know where that line is. And they should know where that line is because then they can pick up the phone to Childline or they can talk to a professional and ask them where that line is. So, that would be a step forward. I do recognise, though, that what we don't want to do—and the last thing any of us want to do—is criminalise parents who are bringing up their children. That is why we're saying there needs to be an emphasis on the support programmes that are available to parents. And to be clear, there is no way that we want long-term involvement in any child's life, but particularly not in the lives of children who have been smacked by their parents. That is not going to be the result of this legislation, trust me, because we don't want to be involved in—we haven't got the resources to be involved in children's lives. The social worker or the police officer—if they become involved, then there would be a proportionate response to that, and there'll also be a test about whether or not that is progressed. So, if there is an allegation—if this legislation is passed—then that will be looked into and a consideration will be made about whether any action will be taken, and as with any allegation of the law being broken, there would be a proportionate response, as there is now.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "And the next question does relate to the practical response to that. Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Can you outline the practical ways in which social services' interaction with parents will change as a result of this proposed law and do you envisage that all referrals to the police will be automatically referred to social services for an assessment? Who's going to make those decisions?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "That will be part of the implementation phase about that decision making. Interestingly, the number of referrals that we currently get from the police that we take absolutely no action on is extraordinary. So, we get a very, very large number of—. It will be happening now; sitting in the civic centre in Newport City Council will be a whole host of social workers taking in the public protection notifications from overnight. It's 10 o'clock, so they're assessing them now, as we speak. And an awful lot of those will have no further action from the local authority.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "But will they be investigated?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "No. There will be no action. There are countless referrals made by agencies to local authorities that we take no action on.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "So, if there's an increase as a result of greater awareness—",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "What happens is there is a paper assessment of them. There's a look at what's happened, who's involved, what the police have reported, and there's work being done with the police to improve that. Because one of the things that we want to get to is actually where we're not using huge amounts of time to look at that, but what comes to us is what we act on. So, there is work going on with a number of police authorities to look at how you improve that process. But I suppose, to pick up, each incident will be looked at, each one will be assessed in a way that is proportionate, as Huw says, to look at what's happened and then investigated.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Sally, can you give us a couple of examples of what kind of things might have come in that you would then take no action on?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We get countless referrals, for example, where there's been a domestic abuse incident overnight where a child wasn't present in the property and we then haven't taken action. It’ll be where the level of harm that’s perceived to happen to that child is below the threshold for intervention from children's services.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "I’m pretty cynical about assessment, because, you know, I have people come in who are benefit claimants where, when they’ve been assessed, the whole process has been very flawed and I’ve had to fight and fight and fight on their behalf. So—",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Assessment processes within social—",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "But if you're struggling now with those assessments—",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Assessment processes within social services are as laid out in the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. So, we have within what we carry out, I suppose, that kind of initial look, that look at the information, what else do we know about that family—",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "And are they qualified people that are doing this?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, absolutely.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "And, in fact, in lots of places in Wales now, it’s a multi-agency assessment. So, it’s a joint assessment carried out with police professionals and health professionals.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "So, what proportion currently would you not be taking any action on, if a report came in of some domestic abuse where a child had perhaps been smacked?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "If something came in to us where a child had been smacked and there was something clearly there, we would look at it. We would clearly look at it and we would take some sort of action.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Even now, before the legislation?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Can you ask a final question? And I'm going to have to appeal for brief answers, because we've got a lot of ground to cover.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just very quickly, there may be no action from social services, but it doesn’t mean that we don’t offer support. So, the expectation is that support is offered in those circumstances from family support services, for example—",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "Or prevention.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "—or prevention services. So, we would not say, if we were aware, for example, that there was domestic abuse at a home, ‘There’s no role for children’s social services’, because there may be an assessment that that child may not be at immediate risk of harm, but we would obviously recognise that there are causes for concern there and we would offer that support. So, just to be clear about that. And that’s a process that happens in every social services department in the UK, and it’s happened for a very long time, and, in fact, it’s reflective of the legislation that you have laid down as Assembly Members.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "And are those services there, Huw? Because I’m very acutely aware of the pressure on local government. Are the services there? Is there sufficient resource in things like Families First? Because what I’m hearing on the ground is that eligibility is changing for even those preventative services.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "There’s not enough of those services, and, obviously—you may have heard me saying this before—I think we need to invest more in those services, and I hope you invest more in the services, because, obviously, prevention is better than cure. And those pressures that Sally talked about earlier are pressures that are not going away; they’re only increasing by the day, actually, and I would want us to be able to offer those services now. Because that example of a child that perhaps is in a home where there is domestic abuse—we’ll probably have another referral off them in a couple of months’ time, and that could escalate. And what I’d rather do is provide support to that family and try and stop that family breaking down so that, in six months, we're not going back and saying that we've got to take this child into care because the domestic abuse has worsened and that child is at risk. But those services need additional investment.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "I appreciate that time is of the essence, but, just really quickly in relation to that, it’s not just social services. So, for example, there are developments like Encompass, which is a piece of work that is being rolled out across Gwent and across other areas, which is where the police automatically notify the school overnight of an incident, not expecting the school to do anything per se, but to be aware, to be able to offer care for that child.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Can I add to that? Operation Encompass I know in Gwent has been operational, and we started it in Pembrokeshire 18 months ago. We as a local authority—and it’ll be education that will contact the school around the domestic incident happening, and the school as part of that protocol will provide a level of universal service support for that child when they come in, before 9 o’clock, so that professionals are aware of the needs of the welfare of that child at that point. So, you know, schools play a key role in the universal service of this and we work very closely with our social care colleagues on that.",
"speaker": "Alastair Birch"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Janet, your last question, please.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "The Bill's explanatory memorandum refers to an estimate of 274 offences annually where lawful chastisement was used as a defence or considered. It says there is also potential to create extra demand on out-of-hours social services teams due to the time that the offences were reported, and in order to support safeguarding measures. Have you assessed how this Bill will impact on emergency and out-of-hours local authority services?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We have considered that, and again I think that's something that we would very much want to look at as part of implementation. We have out-of-hours provision, we have emergency duty teams already across Wales that operate 24/7. There's no doubt that they exist and they work very closely with our police colleagues.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Are they overstretched at the moment?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "I think in the same way as all of social services is. If we were offered additional resource, we are going to take that. But are they working in a way that protects children day in, day out, and vulnerable adults? Yes, they are, and they will continue to do so.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. We've got some specific questions now on the impact on education from Jayne Bryant.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Good morning. Alastair, you've already mentioned about awareness raising and training, which will be key with educational professionals. How confident are you that teachers and others working in those educational settings will be clear about how to support the implementation of this Bill, if enacted?",
"speaker": "Jayne Bryant AM"
},
{
"content": "Training requirements for all professionals in education settings are clear. The universal tier 1 training is there, and all local authorities in Wales will implement that. In that level of general safeguarding awareness and training, the infinite emphasis is on the duty to report. That will remain the same. The thresholds for social care, that's their responsibility. That duty to report will always be there. It says in 'Keeping learners safe', which is the bible in terms of education professionals, that there's a responsibility on the professional to make that referral and for that universal service. So, the more specialist safeguarding leads within the schools, who have become highly skilled professionals in terms of understanding what might be significant harm—because that's what we're talking about—they understand the legalities when a referral needs to be made. There's always the collation of safeguarding information, where there might be just general concerns about neglect and other areas, which combined would create a picture that there might be significant neglect or significant harm to the child, and then that referral would be made to the child care assessment team or the police. So, that awareness—it needs to be clear for educational professionals that that duty to report is always there. If they believe that that significant harm has happened then that report then goes to the child care assessment team. They will make the judgment on the threshold because they are the professionals. They have the multi-agency awareness of how that meets the threshold. But in terms of education, it'll be that awareness, making sure that there's clarity. If there's anything that professionals need to be trained additionally on, it'll need to go into 'Keeping learners safe', which at the moment is being rewritten. So, there would have to be some new possible information there relating to this. But as long as there's clarity, and once that implementation phase and the discussion has happened, as long as it's clear for professionals that the duty is always there and they feel a significant harm, then that report will always be there and will always need to be made. It's making sure—and I'll echo what my colleague said, Huw—that the services are key for families. Schools are absolutely fundamental in that support for the families. They have those relationships with the families. I know there was discussion around professional trust. On a daily basis, professionals are working on that trust with parents, because they are the ones that can engage with those families. The family support officers that are working on the ground with highly complex families, with multiple leads and supporting the children—they are fundamental, and investment in that level of support would also help our colleagues as well. So, anything that's preventative. That is already happening in schools and is effective, and is shown to be effective, and has an evidence base—we'd always support that that would continue to be invested in. So, that's really my answer.",
"speaker": "Alastair Birch"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And you were saying about how important trust is as well, but do you think that there's a risk that those in education settings will have a key role in referring more parents to social services, which some have said could cause potential harm to relationships and cause mistrust?",
"speaker": "Jayne Bryant AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it's a matter of mistrust—it's a matter of, you know, if a professional believes, based on the evidence that they have, because they're working with that child every day, that there is significant harm to that child, they are under a duty to report that to social care. So, part of the work is with families, and most of the referrals we make are with parental consent. That consent is a key element of this, and conversation with our social care colleagues is usually, 'You need to speak to the parents again and have a conversation with them.' Some of the NFAs—the ones that don't get referred at threshold—it will come back to school for, possibly, some support from the family or a team around the family or some other aspect. So, I don't think—. The trust in the professionals—it's actually more important that we are seen to be upholding our duties under the all-Wales safeguarding procedures. That's what engenders trust in a professional workforce.",
"speaker": "Alastair Birch"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Jayne Bryant AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. We're going to move on now to some questions about the importance of awareness raising from Siân Gwenllian.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Good morning. In looking at your written evidence, you say that we must make it very clear to parents, guardians and the public that this legislation is not trying to criminalise parents, and that is clearly very important for you. How do you think we should do that and who should be doing that work?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that's really broad. Obviously, colleagues in education, colleagues in social care, colleagues in preventative services, but also Welsh Government and the National Assembly, in terms of those drivers in relation to that awareness raising are really, really key. If you look at some of the other campaigns that have been run, notably in relation to violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence, and echoing some of those building campaigns that have been done to raise awareness—I think those would be really good models to begin to consider in terms of how this is taken forward with awareness. We also know that there are a number of routes that we can go through in terms of raising awareness. We have existing preventative services, we have all our universal services, we have the regional safeguarding boards and the national safeguarding boards. So, there are a number of avenues that we could then explore. In terms of not wishing to criminalise, I think if we look at the numbers, they are very, very small. And I think one of the things we need to hold on to in this is a sense of proportion about what is or isn't likely to happen once or if this Bill ever gets to the point of Royal Assent—they are small numbers who currently use this defence. It is about that wider issue of awareness raising, and using all of those avenues will help us to do that in the broadest sense.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Do you, therefore, believe that this needs to be on the face of the Bill? That is, you don't say this in your evidence. I'd like to know your opinion on that. Scotland is going to be making it a duty for Scottish Ministers to raise awareness of the impact of the Bill. So far, the Welsh Government says that we don't need to do that in Wales. Wouldn't it make it clearer for you if it was a clear duty on the face of the Bill, for example as it was with the Human Transplantation (Wales) Act 2013? There was a duty in that Act for Ministers to promote transplantation. Surely, that awareness raising aspect would be clearer for everyone if it was on the face of the Bill. Do you have an opinion on that?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, Welsh Government have given that commitment, and I know the Welsh Government honour every commitment that they make—[Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "That's why I'm asking.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't know whether that is necessary—I'm not a legislator. I think that there's obviously an inherent interest in Welsh Government raising awareness, because we have to raise awareness effectively for this to be successful, otherwise we will have parents who feel that they're being criminalised, and that's the last thing we want. I think it's worthy of consideration, but, as I say, I'm not a legislator or a lawyer, so I don't know what implications that will have long term. But to be fair to Welsh Government, I think that commitment is one that I'm sure will be honoured, because Welsh Government will want to make a success of this Bill if it does receive Royal Assent.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "Okay. But is it clear who would pay for all of that?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I've suddenly changed my mind—[Laughter.] I think it should be a duty on Welsh Government Ministers—absolutely. I don't need to check with lawyers or legislators. There we go. And that's the WLGA position; I don't need to ask the other 21 leaders on that either. [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "Wouldn't it make it clearer if there was a clear duty on the face of the Bill that awareness raising had to happen? It would be clearer, then, for local authorities and people in the front-line services what needs to happen.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm going to echo Huw. [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "I thought you might. Okay, fine.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. We're moving on now, then, to the contentious issue of resources and we've got some questions from Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Sally Jenkins, you said that the purpose of the Bill is to bring clarity and to remove what is a little-used defence. Isn't this an expensive way of doing that?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think so, no. I think that our children deserve the best legislation.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "But introducing this legislation diverts finances from other areas of children's services—or doesn't?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I would say, no, I don't think it will divert resources from children's services. Firstly, going back to the comment made, I think, proportionally, this is a very small number of cases. It's a very small number of existing cases that go through in terms of prosecution, or consideration for prosecution. We know that it's likely, from some of the work that we've already done, that it's not opening floodgates for a sudden sea of referrals to children's services—that's not the way this is going to be, because the numbers are not out there because of the changes that have already happened in Welsh family life and Welsh society. So, I think as part of the implementation phase, we need to have a really clear understanding of the trajectory of those costs and what's likely to happen over the first six months, 12 months in terms of people's awareness and understanding and what is referred and how that's worked. But in terms of a huge number, no, I don't anticipate it being that.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "But the costs wouldn't just be directed to the number of referrals and the number of cases raised, it's the cost around that, with training of staff, awareness—all those extra additional costs that always come with legislation. Is it too much? Is it—?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "No. And I agree with that—that there clearly are—but if you think, many of those things will be aligned with work we are already doing, but it brings a clarity to that work. So, our teachers, our social workers, our health workers, our police officers already get substantial training around child protection, around safeguarding, around adverse childhood experiences and around a trauma-informed approach to children. What this does is it layers a clarity on that. But rather than having a part of that training, which has to deal with this as an aspect—that is no longer there; it is a clear message for all professions.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "I fully appreciate that, and in the briefing note you've given us, you've outlined the pressures on social services. So, do you think this is another way of getting money into social services?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "If this was a way of getting money into—. I can think of better ways, but I don't think this is it. No, I mean, I absolutely do not think that. I think this is a clear commitment to the rights of children in Wales; this is not about levering additional resources into children's services. Oh that it was so simple.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And, do you think those costs are quantifiable?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we are currently looking at work and are doing work across my own local authority and across two others to look at breaking down those costs, not just for local authority, but also for health, for police and for Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service Cymru. So, there is work currently taking place to try to quantify those costs.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I think there was a bit about local authorities that Siân—",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Siân Gwenllian has got a question on resources.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, just to carry on from that, in a way. The explanatory memorandum that accompanies the Bill talks about the unknown costs for different agencies. You mentioned there that you're doing work around trying to identify some of those costs, but wouldn't it be useful if the explanatory memorandum did explain more about any unknown or unidentified costs, partly in order to calm some of those fears around that? Giving a title 'unidentified costs'—is that good enough?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, clearly, that is a challenge, and that is work that we are participating in and are committed to completing with Welsh Government, to look at what those costs are.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "And then they can be added into this.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think this is where it would be helpful in the committee's deliberations and where our concern would be, because the reality is we're not going to know what the costs are until it's actually implemented, because we haven't implemented this before. And, therefore, I think there needs to be a commitment that, whatever the costs are, those costs are met because it is legislation that is being led by the National Assembly for Wales. And whilst we don't see it as levering in additional resources, we don't think it should be at the expense of current service provision to vulnerable families in Wales, and therefore it's important that it is properly and fully resourced.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "What I would argue on that is that you have to try and forecast. You say it's difficult to forecast how much this is going to cost, but we have to try and forecast that, and part of the argument for trying to have projections is to show that, perhaps, it's not going to cost that much, and that would add to the argument that, 'Okay, this is going to be fine to do and it's not going to put too much pressure on us'. Or we need to know that this is going to cost a lot to do it effectively, and therefore you have to make your argument, then, 'Well, we can't afford that, the money has to come from somewhere else.' We have to get the costs, surely.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and we will work very closely with Welsh Government to try and establish those costs as quickly as possible. There will be some costs that we will be able to identify. So, for example, a campaign, an awareness-raising campaign, the marketing, if you like, but some of the other costs will be more difficult to establish in terms of the resource implications for front-line workers. I expressed a view that we need to see some additional investment in some of those programmes that are not targeted directly at families that would be impacted by this but support all families across Wales that have different needs, and some of that provision is universal. Obviously, my view is the more we put into that, the better. So, there's no limit to that, but I suspect Welsh Government will take a very different view to that. But I think that is something where we need to see a commitment to some additional resources. But I don't put an upper limit on that, because I don't think there's an authority in Wales, and I don't think there's a charity, a police service or a health board in Wales that doesn't think that we need to do more of that and could offer more of that if the resources were available.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. We've come to the end of our time, so can I thank you all for attending and for answering all of our questions? It's been a really useful and informative discussion. As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting, but thank you again, all of you, for coming.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "And thank you for your questions and engagement. We welcome the opportunity.",
"speaker": "Huw David"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Alastair Birch"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Sally Jenkins"
},
{
"content": "Okay, item 3 is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Minister for Housing and Local Government—additional information for our inquiry into school funding. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services on in-patient child and adolescent mental health services provision, and I would like to briefly return to that when we go into private. Are Members happy to note those? Thank you. Item 4, then: can I propose a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting? Are Members content? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_15 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"4"
]
],
"topic": "Introduction on healthy graft strategy and relative engagements"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"5",
"33"
],
[
"44",
"46"
]
],
"topic": "Evaluation, investment and responsibility of the strategy"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"34",
"43"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion on specific actions to tackle obesity"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"47",
"65"
]
],
"topic": "Data on obesity in children and beyond and its use"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"66",
"75"
]
],
"topic": "Legislation and sports infrastructural construction to make a healthy environment"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"76",
"90"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion on healthier settings construction and accountability in schools"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"91",
"111"
]
],
"topic": "Physical education and food provision for pupils in schools"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"112",
"139"
]
],
"topic": "Supplements and conclusions to the above discussions"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting with Dr Frank Atherton, the Chief Medical Officer for Wales, and Nathan Cook, who is the head of the healthy and active branch at Welsh Government, was mainly about the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' draft strategy in Wales and subsequent questions about it. To start with, Sian Gwenllian AM proposed questions like the strategy's evaluation, investment and principal. Dr Frank Atherton, at the same time, indicated that there was a n exact evaluation and the nation has already imposed tax on sugar and the first Minister will definitely be the ultimate man at the wheel. Then they paid much attention to existing data measuring child obesity and decided to put it in great use in tackling obesity. Meanwhile, the meeting talked about government legislation for some sort of things like restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and sports infrastructure in schools as part of efforts to make a healthy environment. What's more, they went into details on how healthy settings constructions and whom that would be the one to take responsibility. Also, they had a discussion on physical education and school meals for pupils. Finally, the meeting participants gave some supplements of education and the draft strategy and the chair concluded the meeting with the future universality of the draft strategy.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "There was no exact evaluation but Dr Frank Atherton did think they should have a strong one. The draft strategy also made an estimate in investment which would be £8 million to £10 million a year. Investment would be spent on different sources and they should pay more attention to extending them. Speaking of leadership, Dr Frank Atherton agreed to its importance and made his own opinion that local leadership was essential and they should also have national oversight at the same time.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about evaluation, investment and responsibility of the draft strategy.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"5",
"33"
],
[
"44",
"46"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Having a target is more of its deliverability than just having it according to Dr Frank Atherton. Since there had been not that successful examples, Dr Frank Atherton considered that they must balance deliverability with challenge. Also, Dr Frank Atherton thought a target was one tool in the box that they could use, but moreover, an evaluation which could help them know where they are was very needed. At the same time, there was still a lot to achieve.",
"query": "What did Dr Frank Atherton think of having a target?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"5",
"13"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Investment needed to implement the plan was more about resourcing. Dr Frank Atherton said they currently did make investments in a number of areas that related to child health generally, and, of course, obesity and overweight in particular. And now, according to existing programmes, a figure of £8 million to £10 million a year had been bandied around as a broad kind of area of what they might need. Dr Frank Atherton also put priority in thinking about the totality of the £7 billion they spent in health and social care and how they could divert and channel some of that towards broad prevention initiatives in general, and towards tackling being overweight and obesity in particular.",
"query": "What did Dr Frank Atherton say about investment?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"14",
"33"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "There main data source was the child measurement programme, which collected information on children entering school aged four or five, showing that under a third of children at that age are overweight or obese. Dr Frank Atherton spoke of the frequency of being asked to have a longitudinal view over time of what's happening to Children, which was obviously essential for our schools and for the system and helpful for the strategy evaluation.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about data on obesity in children and beyond and its use.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"47",
"65"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Dr Frank Atherton first gave a very latest data showing that under a third of children at four or five are overweight or obese. The data showed that the situation was not getting radically worse but also not getting any better. They have a figure for the severely obese for the first time, which is about 12 per cent, which is quite shocking, in a way.",
"query": "What did Dr Frank Atherton say about the data?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"50",
"58"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Dr Frank Atherton put out one “often asked” question and attached some importance to having a longitudinal view over time of what's happening to Children, which meant children were measured at school entry and then again at age 11 or 12. That would have significant resource implications, not just for the funding, but also for schools and for the system to deliver it. And also, according to Dr Frank Atherton, the longitudinal data would be helpful in strategy evaluation.",
"query": "What did Dr Frank Atherton's answer to how would any gaps in their data be addressed?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"60",
"63"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Dr Frank Atherton was first asked about legislations in the draft plan and their ideas on those things. The use of legislation was affirmed by Dr Frank Atherton but it was just one of the tools they have got, they need to employ them all. Then as to sports infrastructure, Dr Frank Atherton, though not an expert in that field, also supported it as a good one to pursue not only in schools but also in a broadening area.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about legislation and sports infrastructural construction to make a healthy environment.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"67",
"75"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Dr Frank Atherton's answer to legislations' timing, it was very clear that the implementation of legislation to build a healthy environment was very approved by Dr Frank Atherton and even by a large group in the consultation. Dr Frank Atherton reviewed that they needed a mirror to see what had been happening in this country and legislation was a good way and took some examples of food takeaways which showed that they needed to consider effectiveness things.",
"query": "What did Dr Frank Atherton said about legislation to build a healthy environment?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"67",
"70"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Dawn Bowden AM asked for Dr Frank Atherton's ideas on community sport infrastructure of new schools, and pointed out that Welsh Government has ploughed a huge amount of money into the twenty-first century schools programme. At the end of speech, Dawn Bowden AM thought they should be making sure that they have those kinds of facilities so that they become accessible to the wider public. At the same time, Dawn Bowden AM gave advice on making a recommendation of sports infrastructure to Dr Frank Atherton.",
"query": "What did Dawn Bowden AM mean when he talked about sports infrastructure?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"71",
"73"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Dr Frank Atherton first gave a look at a primary school education embedded with physical activity at an early stage and assures its benefits not only on healthy benefits but also on socialization and mental issues. Then Dr Frank Atherton delivered sparkles on making pupils more engaged with physical education, which was tailoring things to different audiences. When it came to school meals, Dr Frank Atherton did not gave personal views because things related still needed more consultations and surveys.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about physical education and food provision for pupils in schools.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"91",
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{
"answer": "Dr Frank Atherton considered that just in terms of the physical activity, it was a really important dimension and they found that their children were not that physically active and couldn't meet the various guidelines. Embedding physical activity at an early stage in primary school education might not have the same effect as the dietary issue did to healthy weight, but it was vital to pupils socialization and mental health.",
"query": "Why did Dr Frank Atherton make a commitment to embedding physical activity at an early stage in primary school education?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"94",
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"answer": "In fact, Dr Frank Atherton did not give an exact opinion on providing a more varied diet for pupils. It would be something needing consultation and consideration, then they might decide whether it was worth carrying out. The quality of food, rather than preparing school meals or not, was more important to Dr Frank Atherton.",
"query": "What was Dr Frank Atherton's opinion on providing a more varied diet for pupils?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"103",
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{
"content": "Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Michelle Brown and Jack Sargeant; there are no substitutions. Can I ask if Members have any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. We'll move on, then, to item 2, which is our scrutiny of the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' draft strategy, and I'm very pleased to welcome Dr Frank Atherton, the Chief Medical Officer for Wales, and Nathan Cook, who is the head of the healthy and active branch at Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending this morning. We're very much looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions. If I can just start by asking about the fact that 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' is an all-age strategy, really, and how confident you are that it will deliver for children and young people.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we're very confident. I mean, it has to, quite clearly. We do need to think about the present generation, the problems faced by the current generation. We have high prevalence of overweight and obesity among adults—we know that, and we can't walk away from that because that's translating into demand on health services. But we have to take a focus, a future generation's focus, almost, on the next generation. I don't write off the current generation, we can't afford to do that, but we do need to think about what can we do that would be different for the next generation so that they don't get into the sorts of problems that we're currently seeing with overweight and obesity. We know that the consequences of that for our young people are going to be enormous if we don't do something and something quite soon. We know that overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues—diabetes is often cited—cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategy?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms of the work that we want them to do to feed into this as well. So, we've already had some really good responses from a lot of youth group and schools already.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "And you've got a structured programme, have you, to roll that out? Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on leadership, and the first questions are from Siân Gwenllian.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Good morning. I'll be speaking in Welsh. The Minister for health said yesterday, in answering a question from me on the Chamber floor, that you gave him advice not to have a target in terms of reducing obesity among children. Could you confirm that that's what your advice was and tell us why you don't think that a target is needed?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "My advice was not that we don't need a target—we may well need a target, and that's one of the issues we need to consult on—but that the target that had been adopted in England and in Scotland to halve the prevalence of obesity in children was more aspirational than deliverable, and that if we are to choose a target in Wales, then we need to balance deliverability with challenge. We need a challenging environment. So, there is something about performance management, because I would be looking to not just the health system but the health and care system and to public services boards to think about how they're delivering on this, and I think we can use targets to that. But they are one tool in the box that I would think we could use, and part of the consultation is to ask that question—'If we are to go down a route in Wales of choosing a target, what might that look like?'",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, to be clear, you're not ruling out that maybe we would need a target.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "It's certainly something that we could consider in terms of the final strategy.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "And is that your opinion too?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, that is contrary to what I was told yesterday on the floor of the Chamber by the Minister, but there we go. I'm glad to hear that you're not ruling out having a target, because without a target, without something to aim for, how do we know that we're getting there?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think your point about evaluation is really important. Whatever we produce at the end of this process—and we're looking to produce a final strategy towards the autumn—we do need to have a strong evaluation. So, some metrics in there, it would seem, would be appropriate, but what those are, what the nature of those are, do we frame them as targets or ambitions—that's the point we need to consult on.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And the other point, of course, is the investment. If the Government is going to be successful in terms of the aim of reducing childhood obesity, then it needs to fund and support the actions. Have you made an assessment of the level of investment needed to implement this plan?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Resourcing will be important. We currently do make investments in a number of areas that relate to child health generally, and, of course, obesity and overweight in particular. So, the question of resourcing is important. Now, we can't quantify an absolute amount of resource that will be needed to deliver until we know exactly what's going to come out of the consultation and what actions we might want to deliver to a greater degree in Wales. A figure of £8 million to £10 million a year has been banded around as a broad kind of area of what we might need to invest, but that would need to be drawn from existing programmes. We need to look at existing programmes, how effective they are. Can we make them more effective? Can we get better value from them? And there may well be a case for new investment, and that's a question, of course, that would need to be discussed with Ministers when we're producing the final strategy.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "But I think a key consideration as well is we already know there is investment across health boards in some kind of obesity-related services. So, I think what we really need to think about across Wales is how we can drive greater scale, how we can look at current programmes in terms of making sure that they're better evaluated, and how we can make sure that we're also drawing up on the existing resources and capacity out there as well.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "And does the level of investment depend on what the target is—what the goal is?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think you can necessarily just link the two. The issue of resourcing is one that's there irrespective of whether we choose to put a target in place.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "But how would we know that it's being used effectively if there isn't something to aim for?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Which brings you back to the question about evaluation. We need proper evaluation of the various programmes that we have.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but without a target, how can you properly evaluate? If you don't know what you're trying to do, how can you properly evaluate? Anyway, you're open to suggestions about having a target, which is great. Would you agree that Government could use the revenue that's being produced through the levy on soft drinks towards some of these efforts to—?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, of course, there are some consequentials that are coming to the Welsh Government as part of the levy on sugary soft drinks. That funding, of course, is less than we had anticipated, and that reflects, actually, a success story because industry is reformulating, and so the amount of sugar in soft drinks is already starting to decrease, which is a good thing. But to your question: should we use the funding? Well, of course we should use funding. I'm not personally in favour of hypothecation, I think I'm more interested in the totality of resource that goes into public health programmes than into marginal resource. There are, of course, a number of initiatives that we currently fund through the general revenue. And when I think about obesity, I don't just think about the relatively small marginal amounts of money that come in through whatever source, but I think about the totality of the £7 billion we spend in health and social care and how we can divert and channel some of that towards broad prevention initiatives in general, and towards tackling being overweight and obesity in particular.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "You're saying that it's less than expected. Could you give us any kind of figure?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "You say that there is less money that's come in through these consequentials from the levy, can you mention some sort of figure?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "The figure that I have in mind is about £56 million that's coming in in terms of revenue over a two-year period. But I'd have to confirm that with the committee. What the anticipated—. When the sugar levy was first brought in, there was some modelling at UK level about what level of revenue that would bring, but it was based on the amount of sugar that was currently then in drinks and the fact that the sugar has reduced in drinks, I mean, the total amount available to the UK is less and hence our consequentials are less. Nathan may have some precise figures.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I was going to say, there was a mid-year report done where the levy has raised £150 million to date since coming into force in April, and the original forecast was £520 million a year. So, I think that shows the amount of work that's been done by industry around reformulation.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "And the consequentials of that? That is the consequential—£150 million.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "On a UK level.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "Yes, so what's the Welsh consequential?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Fifty-six.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Fifty-six? Gosh, that sounds a lot. Anyway, it's a good sum of money and you're talking about investing £8 million to £10 million. So, obviously, you know, we can be more ambitious because there is money in that pot if that money was ring-fenced for this particular scheme.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the resource is going to be a real issue that we need to address, and I think as Nathan has said, there is funding of various initiatives currently in the system, and we need to look at that and make that as effective as possible. Will there be a need for some additional resource? There may well be, and that's a question that we'll have to look at in terms of the strategy when we develop it and have a discussion with Ministers about the level of resourcing.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Can I just ask on that before Siân moves on? What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations? Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to—? As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on that?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from—. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about—?",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference—it's a personal view—is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales? We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of public services boards and of the health system, indeed, about how much money, overall, are we putting into prevention.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "No, I recognise that, and I think we're talking about additional resource. Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I was just wondering whether you thought that there was a useful psychological link on the part of the public between saying, 'Here's a sugar levy', and 'It's going to be used to help children and adults stay healthier.' Going into a pot, it actually makes it quite difficult to explain the purpose of the tax in the first place. So, I take your overall point, but in terms of the people who we're trying to help in all this, actually creating a direct link might be quite helpful.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "You may be right. I'm not a behavioural psychologist. We'd have to ask—",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Neither am I. I'm a person who eats a lot of sugar. [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Your point's taken.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thanks. Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "The last question from me, about partnership working. You're putting an emphasis on the whole-system approach in implementing the plan, how are you going to create a system that co-ordinates action and drives change across relevant partners, avoiding a situation where it's everyone's role, but nobody's responsibility? How are you going to avoid that?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "It's a very important question, and one of the four strands in the consultation is exactly related to that, around leadership and drive nationally. I'm not interested in producing a strategy that sits on a shelf. If you look around the world, there are plenty of obesity strategies. You may notice, by the way, that we've chosen not to talk about an obesity strategy but a healthy weight strategy, because I think having a positive construct is really quite important to us here in Wales. But leadership will be really important, and we will need some sort of structure to lead this, to provide oversight. I'm not a great believer in creating new structures, so we do need something that will give that drive, but the leadership comes from the top down. We need political commitment to this, and that's why I welcome the input from this committee. So, that needs to be assured. And then we need to make sure that the public sector generally is engaged in this, but it goes way beyond the public sector, of course, because we have to work with industry, and we have to work with communities, and we have to work with the public on this. So we need to think about our governance system for this and how we drive it forward. Interestingly, we had quite a large discussion two days ago between health and social care, but also involving the third sector and some members of the public, around how can we drive prevention more generally. It wasn't specifically on obesity, but of course obesity came up because it's such a pressing issue. This question of governance was discussed quite extensively, and we do have governance systems, of course, in Wales. We have public services boards, we have regional partnership boards, and how we can get those aligned behind this common agenda is really important. But I'd like to see—and I know I'm a public health professional, so I know that only maybe 10 per cent, 15 per cent, possibly 20 per cent of what makes and keeps us healthy as individuals and as communities can be driven through the health system; but I would like the system to step up and take these kinds of issues more seriously as well. So I'd be looking for local leadership through directors of public health and indeed through chief executives to work with their public services boards on this. So, we'll need some sort of national oversight, absolutely, but we need local ownership and local leadership, too.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We've got some questions now from Janet Finch-Saunders.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Delivery of the plan will be led by a national implementation board that will be accountable to Ministers. Which Minister do you believe it should be accountable to, or, given the complexity of obesity, should the board be directly accountable to the First Minister?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Ultimately, the First Minister will be responsible for this and will want to have a strong oversight of this. It is often framed as a health issue, and the Minister, Vaughan Gething, has a strong personal commitment to this, I know. We've talked extensively with him and with sports and recreation colleagues about that, so there's a link there. It does cut across all portfolios, and so this is an issue that I have discussed with Cabinet, and that collective ownership is really important, and will be, because it can't just sit in one domain. I think what you do need to have is you do need to have a lead organisation or a lead ministry, and I would see health as—I work within health, so I'm perhaps biased, but I would see health as leading this, but it needs broad ownership across Government.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "I know my colleague Siân Gwenllian mentioned earlier targets and things, but I know in Wales we're not too good at collecting data. What data is currently available on childhood obesity and what metrics will be used to measure progress against the plan's objectives?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, of course, our main data source is the child measurement programme, which collects information on children entering school aged four or five. That's our main source of information. If we look at that data, it shows us—. Well, I'm sure you're familiar with the statistics, but it'll be just under a third of children at that age who are overweight or obese—",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Could I just ask—sorry to interrupt—how up to date is that?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The last survey was just last year.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "The data was published last week.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "Yes, the lastest data was out last week.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "It is pretty up to date.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "So, it's pretty up to date, and what it shows—. It's not getting radically worse—there's always statistical variation in these things—but it's not getting any better. And, for the first time last year, we did look at the question not just of children who were overweight or obese, but we actually singled out the proportion who are obese, severely obese. So we have a figure for that for the first time, which is about 12 per cent, which is quite shocking, in a way.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "It is shocking.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "So, that's our main source of information. Does that answer your question?",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but how will any gaps in your data be addressed?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, one of the questions that are often asked is: could we measure more on a longitudinal basis? By that I mean in England, for example, children are measured at school entry and then again at year 11—at age 11 or 12., that kind of age group. And so you do have a longitudinal view over time of what's happening to children. I think that would be helpful to us in Wales, and it's one of the questions in the consultation about whether we should expand that. Obviously, that would have significant resource implications, not just for the funding, but also for schools and for the system to deliver it. But it's something that maybe would help us in terms of better understanding and better evaluation—the point that was made earlier.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "And the other data we do have is the millennium cohort study, which has been released, for 14 and 15-year-olds. That's going to be—. We're starting to think about how we can utilise some of that data, looking at that longitudinal picture around children as well, which will be really helpful.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. You've answered my next question. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just ask about the child measurement programme? The strategy commits to looking at whether we can have a second measurement taking place in Wales. Can you just tell us a bit more about your thinking on that and when you would see a second measurement taking place and how you would use that data?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I touched on that just now, but personally I do think it would be helpful to have more information. It's always the case, There's always a trade-off between the cost of getting that information and the value of the information. So, the question of how it would be used would be really important. There is still a lot that we don't know. We know an awful lot about obesity and being overweight and the causes of it, but we don't really have a very clear understanding, in Wales at least, of the point at which children start to become overweight. Although we know that overweight children tend to go on to become overweight adults, we don't know what proportion of them between school entry and later teenage years—what those changes are. So, it would help us to have some better understanding, which would help to direct some of our initiatives. I'd be generally supportive of the principle. We'll wait and see what comes out in the consultation, and it's something that we need to give thought to, but we do have to trade off the additionality of what the information would give us with the cost of doing that, of course.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on healthy environments from Dawn Bowden.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. In the draft plan, some of the measures in there suggest legislating for restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and that sort of thing. Do you think that, if we go down that road, there's going to be time within this Assembly to introduce such legislation? And, if not, what do you think might be the timescale for such legislation?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "It may well be that there are things in Wales that we might wish to legislate on, and you've mentioned two of them, and they're good examples. We would, obviously, need to undertake quite detailed consultation on those and, in a way, we need to mirror what's happening in England and in Scotland to some degree around the consultations they're having on energy drinks. We also need to influence the issues that are not devolved to us and we seek to do that. As to your question of legislative time, I'm not really in a position to answer that. What I could say is that legislation may well be one of the outcomes of the consultation. There may well be things that we wish to choose to legislate on. The timing of that will have to be subject to other pressures, and I come back to the point that legislation, of course, is one of the tools that we've got—we need to deploy them all.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Sure, I understand that, that you could do other things. I know—. We've heard from the Government, on other calls for legislation, that the programme's very tight, certainly for this term, so I was just wondering whether we might get that in, but okay. If I turn now to the planning system—and this might not be something that you have great deal of knowledge of; I'd just welcome your view on this, because, when we discussed with stakeholders, we talked about whether the planning system, for instance, could be used to, as an example, restrict hot food takeaways around schools and so on. Would that be a measure that you would support, something like that?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's definitely something we want to look at and, of course, that question is asked in the consultation, so we would like to know people's views on that. It's an interesting one. I think there is a question—a really important question—about how we can use the planning system more effectively. I've discussed with Nathan on a number of occasions, with planning colleagues in Welsh Government and in local authorities, about the art of the possible, let's say. There may be things that we could think about and we want to get those ideas through the consultation. The specific question around takeaways, particularly takeaways near schools, is often asked. I was very interested to see, up in the north-east, some time ago, that one of the local authorities up there did put a moratorium on the opening of new fast-food venues near to schools, or indeed in areas where levels of obesity and overweight were particularly high. I understand London is now—some London boroughs are now—experimenting with that as well. So, that gave me comfort, because maybe there are powers within local authorities that can be used more effectively. I think my view at the moment is that the jury's kind of out on whether those are effective and how effective they're going to be. But the fact that we have some initiatives around the UK does give us an opportunity to study that and to learn from experience perhaps and then, if it is shown to be beneficial, to think about that here in Wales, yes.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Sure, because it will only be one of a suite of measures anyway. Of itself, it wouldn't address the problem, but, added to other initiatives, I guess it would. Can I just ask you briefly, then, about community sport infrastructure and, in particular, of new schools? So, Welsh Government, as you know, has ploughed a huge amount of money into the twenty-first century schools programme. What we heard when we spoke to stakeholders recently, particularly headteachers, was that, in some of the new schools that have been built, we haven't had changing rooms and toilet facilities, for instance, built into the new buildings. So, if we're going to try and utilise these buildings for general community activity to get kids and the wider public, actually, more active, do you think that's something that we ought to be building in? Again, not your particular direct area of responsibility, but something that you might have an input into, is that, when we're developing schools, we should be making sure that they have those kinds of facilities so that they become accessible to the wider public. Is that something that you would be prepared to make a recommendation around?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's certainly a fascinating area and one that I think has a lot of potential. It goes—. You're right to raise it in the context of schools, and I can understand why this committee would, but I think it goes beyond that, actually, into all developments in the public sector and how they're developed and whether we're building health into our environment, which perhaps is your starting point. One of the things that I was really pleased to see in terms of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 that was passed a couple of years ago was the use of health impact assessment as a tool, and we're still working on how that will inform policy and how that will be applied in issues such as policy decisions through Government, but also in more downstream issues about how we create the public infrastructure that the public can and should be using. And so I would like to see the use of health impact assessments to a much greater degree to inform those kinds of decisions. If you apply that kind of lens and you take the point, which is inherent in your question, I think, that schools are not just for kids, they're for communities, then you would—it would lead you to a conclusion that you would perhaps design and build them in a different way. So, on a personal basis, I would certainly support your view that we should be looking to use the sports environment in schools in the same way as we use leisure centres. There are all kinds of barriers in there, and I understand all of that, and it's not really my field, exactly as you say, but, as a matter of principle, I think it's a good one to pursue.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. And widening it out to other public services buildings as well.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Indeed.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We're going to move on now to talk about how we create healthy settings. I've got some questions from Suzy Davies.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. Yes, perhaps if we could just stay in this area of education just for a moment, I think we all agree that healthy habits acquired early on probably tend to last quite well, so I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about the healthy and sustainable preschool scheme and whether you think some timescales should be made public about what you expect the achievements from that scheme to be. But, in particular, I was struck with what you said about local leadership, and I just want you to bear that in mind in answering the next question, which is about the foundation phase. You're probably aware that this committee has heard from various school leaders that they're struggling in some cases to meet the ratio of staffing for the foundation phase, which potentially compromises the purpose of it in terms of physical activity. I'm just wondering how the strategy development board is considering that at the moment. Is it something that's come on the radar for the board? Is it something you're thinking about? And, if so, who do you think should be responsible for pinning that down a little bit? Because this is education, not health, and—.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, look, I've got to confess to you, I'm not an educationist, and so the question on staffing numbers in schools is not one that I have been asked to give a deal of consideration to, and it hasn't really been discussed, I don't believe, in the context of development of the strategy. If there is a specific point around that that the committee would like to make in terms of a response into the consultation, which I presume you'll be making, then we'd be happy to consider that. As to healthy preschools, I don't know, Nathan may have some view on that. I've not been closely involved with the work. We have standards and we perhaps need to think about how we tighten those standards and how we—enforce isn't the right word, but how we implement and make sure that those standards are properly implemented, because you're absolutely right to say that habits are developed early in life. That's in the preschool; it's also in the home of course, and then later in the school. So, we do need to look at all of those as settings and are there more things we can do within those settings to drive healthier behaviours—that's exactly why we need the consultation.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "But I would say, through that scheme as well, we've really got a really good bank of preschools that are actually doing some really great work in this area as well. So, I think the more we can understand the successes that some of those environments are having—you know, how we can roll those out and work across other settings to create that wider impact as well is going to be really important.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. What I'm thinking about is expectations at that level will be expectations at a slightly older level, which will be contained within the foundation phase. And while you're quite right—obviously, parents have a role in this, or families—there will be, particularly with the introduction of the new curriculum, certain expectations on schools to provide not just healthy environments but to actively work towards well-being and healthy weight in children and things. And that's why I asked you about local leadership, because, if it fails for reasons that have nothing to do with the plan at foundation phase, it's going to fail further up the school years as well. I think it might be something that the board might want to consider here, because at some point there'll be an accountability question and we will want to know how 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' fits in with the new plans for the new curriculum, and whether it's merely persuasive and influential or whether it has the weight to place some obligations on school leaders about what they do in their schools. So, this connection, I think, is quite an important one, and, if the strategy development board could consider that, I think it would be very helpful, because this doesn't exist in a vacuum.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I'd certainly be delighted to take that back and we can look at it in terms of how we move from the consultation into the final strategy. It's certainly a point we can try and look at.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Because we will want to know who to ask: 'you're the accountable person—why has something worked, or not worked?' We will need to know that at some point.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Just building on Nathan's point, some of the schools—I know it's schools rather than the preschools, and I take your point, but some of the schools we've been working with have absolutely brilliant models of good practice and good local leadership. I remember the Minister actually at the launch, and one of the schools was represented there, and they presented—the school came and some of the children came and presented—to the whole audience about the activities that they were undertaking in their school around physical activity and on healthy eating, and it was such a model of good behaviour the question was, 'Well, why not everywhere?', so that probably speaks to your question.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay, well, thank you for that commitment anyway.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "And have you had any discussions, then, with education officials around things like teacher training and CPD, because you'll be aware the Health and Social Care Committee has made a number of recommendations in this area? It's crucial that we skill up the staff to develop these things in an appropriate way, isn't it?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we certainly discuss with education colleagues in Welsh Government. There's more we need to do in terms of that, because you're absolutely right: there's something about building the whole of the workforce—education is really important, but elsewhere as well; it's about how do we really make every contact count, you know, that construct. So, everybody who's working in the health and social care system should have a role in this; everybody who works in education, whether it's the old—. Do we still have dinner ladies? Or teachers, you know, they have a role to play in supporting children to be as healthy as they possibly can. And, actually, I see them, Chair, as a really essential part of the public health workforce.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Suzy, are you going to do your curriculum one?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I've bound it in together, but that final point you make about teachers being part of the answer to this, they're already under a range of pressures: is it fair to make them accountable for whether this works or not? Or should that local leadership lie somewhere else? I don't expect you to pin down a person today.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I wouldn't like to blame a teacher or performance manage them on the proportion of their children in their class who are overweight. That would clearly be nonsense, wouldn't it? But they are part of the solution, and so the accountability lies further up the chain, doesn't it? The question I think we would have, and public services boards might well ask, and the local education authorities may well ask, is: how effective is any particular school at driving forwards these healthy behaviours?",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. I'll leave some questions for Hefin.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Is that all right, Chair?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "You've got the floor, Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. You make a commitment to embedding physical activity at an early stage in primary school education. What would that look like?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Just in terms of the physical activity, I have to say it's a really important dimension and we need to move further on. We know not enough of our children are physically active and they're not meeting the various guidelines, so it's really important. It doesn't actually have as much of an impact on weight as the dietary issue. I'd just say that. It's really important for all sorts of reasons. It does have an impact on healthy weight, but it has a huge impact in terms of socialisation, in terms of mental health issues, et cetera, you know. So—I'm sorry, I've lost track of your question.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "I'd just say that one thing we have got in train is, obviously, Sport Wales, Public Health Wales and Natural Resources Wales—we have them working together as a collaborative at the moment to look at how their joint delivery on physical activity can be taken forward more efficiently. So, one of the things they are looking at is obviously the schools programmes they do through eco-schools, the Welsh network of healthy schools and the sports programme to really think about that physical activity and how we can have better join up in terms of the programmes that we're already delivering as well.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "With that in mind, I'm going to confess to you, chief medical officer, I did anything in school I could to avoid physical education lessons. I hated it. I didn't feel engaged with it. Yet, two weeks ago, I played for the Assembly rugby team—I wanted to get that in. The school sports survey, that would suggest that we're still not hitting those targets with children. How can we get children more engaged with physical education in ways that—? I felt completely alienated in school.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, you're right, and many people go through that same journey and come to physical activity later in life, and that's great if they do that. The sad reality is that many people don't, and we also know that there are issues around the dropping off, particularly for girls, of physical activity towards the teenage years. So, there are specific moments that we need to understand. We do have a lot of information about these kinds of things. Public Health Wales is very good at collating the information. We do need to turn that into programmes. I mean, at the heart of it, it's about making sports and physical activity enjoyable and attractive to people. Sometimes that's easier, I sense, for boys than for girls, but we need to tailor things to different audiences.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that's the trick, isn't it? It's about finding out what children enjoy doing. That could be quite a wide and varied range of things. Is that the key?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "It's not all about organised team sports.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. As Dawn said, it's not just about organised team sports. There are some very individual activities you could do.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely, yes. And that's where I think—. I'm delighted that Sport Wales has moved beyond. It's not just about elite sports; it's about getting everybody engaged and active in sports, and that partnership with Public Health Wales that Nathan talked about is really important, because we need a population approach to driving physical activity.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "So, do you think, with that in mind, we need statutory guidance for schools on physical education?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Again, I'd look to the consultation as to whether there was an appetite for any kind of guidance. It may well be that that is something that could be considered.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And finally, with regard to free school meals to all pupils in primary and secondary schools, do you think that extending that to all pupils would be beneficial in providing a more varied diet for pupils?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't have a personal view on that. I think it's the quality of the food that kids are getting, whether that comes from home or through school, and whether it's free or whether it's paid for. I think it's the quality of the food that we need to focus on. The question of children being hungry at school is a really important one and needs to be addressed at a national level. I think that's a—",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "So, you think that's more about the provision of food for those who might not have access to it than providing a varied diet.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's important that children have access to food, absolutely, if that's your question, but we also need to look at the quality of the food and what's in that food offer.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "But you don't necessarily think universal provision would—.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't have a clear view on that. I know there's a larger debate about that.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I've got some supplementaries from Janet and then Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I've been around some amazing schools in my own constituency, where they've got proper canteen facilities for pupils and really, really good produce in the meals. However, there's probably only a third having school meals; the rest are packed lunches. And, to be honest, I've been very surprised and shocked at what I've seen of the quality of the food in the packed lunches. Nobody can really police, and I wouldn't want to see parents being policed over what goes in a packed lunch, so if there is data out there to suggest that there's a larger percentage of parents providing packed lunched that are really not good at all, then there is some merit to be said for what Hefin is—. Me, personally, I'd love to see the introduction of universal school meals. I think it's been a very retrograde step, going backwards. Would you be willing to carry out any research?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "So, I mean, your point about food that's brought in in the packed lunches is a really important one, and I've talked to some headteachers as well about this. We could go down a route of guidance and prohibition, but that gets you into the role of nanny in chief and I don't really see that as my role or Government's role, and I don't think it's effective either. Do you remember—? You must have seen on tv—I think it was in Scotland; I don't know if it's happened in Wales—parents pushing the fish and chip packets through the school railings. We don't need to get into that. What I have seen, though, is some really good innovative practice in schools where, for example, they reward children for bringing the healthy options. Schools can give guidance to parents about what would be a healthy lunch and what sort of things might be expected to be seen in the lunch box. And you can reward children, and children do respond to rewards. So, I've seen some of those approaches that have transformed, actually, the offer of what comes in school boxes. But I think just banning chocolate bars and crisps in the packed lunch is unlikely to be successful.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "We can't do that. So, my point to the question was: isn't there some merit, perhaps, about all children being equal and eating similar good-quality food in schools?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. That gets you back to the question about universal school meals.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps some of that £56 million sugar tax, even. Who knows?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Mine is just a short question. The draft plan commits, doesn't it, to updating the healthy eating in schools regulations—the 2013 regulations? I appreciate this is a consultation, but what is it that needs changing in those regulations at the moment, just to give us a bit of steer?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "It's mainly on sugar content, so, obviously, they don't adhere to current Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition guidelines around sugar levels. So, what we'd want to consider is, you know, what we need to be careful of is unintended consequences of changing that, as well, if you see a shift to more kids bringing in school packed lunches as well. So, I think we want to consider the best way of doing that and consider through the consultation how we can go about it.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "All right. So, it's very pertinent to Janet's question, in that way. Okay, so it's mainly about sugar, but it could be about other things as well. Okay. Thanks.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. The next questions are from Janet anyway; firstly, on the clinical obesity pathway.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "The 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' plan commits to a review of the clinical obesity pathway. What are the time frames for this review, and what do you think are the basic essentials of a clinical obesity pathway for children and young people?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We do have a pathway for managing overweight, and that's been in place since about 2010, I believe, and we do need to bring that up to date in terms of current knowledge and experiences. We've challenged Public Health Wales; we've asked Public Health Wales to undertake a review of that pathway, and they are going through that process now. I'm not sure of exactly the time frame that we have given them for that.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "We were asking them to review the pathway before we launch the final strategy in October because, obviously, what we want is for that to inform what that final strategy looks like. So, we'll be looking probably early autumn for them to report back on that.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "The second point of your question about what are the essential elements, I mean, they are already there; we need to tweak them and we need to make sure that they're properly delivered. But it's a tiered approach, so, having access to information through schools and through communities and into families is part of the first step of that. And then, if children are overweight, it's a question about how they're identified. There are questions about the ability of the public to recognise large children, so there may be an issue there. But when children are running into issues around weight, what kind of interventions can be put in, either through primary care or through communities through health visitors, et cetera? And then of course we do have—and we've started to shine a light on this, haven't we—the very overweight children. I don't think we have enough in the way of targeted support to be able to support those. There are programmes available, but they're perhaps not universally provided. So, I think there's something about looking at our whole pathway, mapping out what the current evidence now shows us is needed, and then thinking about what is our provision in Wales and what do we need to do to bring that up to the level of the places that are the best.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. The draft plan recognises the importance of the first 1,000 days, but it doesn't appear to include any new proposals to help parents to enable lifestyle changes. It lists existing initiatives, such as the Healthy Child Wales programme and breastfeeding action plan. Are you satisfied that the draft plan does enough to address the influence that family and parents have on children's healthy weight behaviours, particularly in the first 1,000 days?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the first 1,000 days are really critically in shaping lives, as I'm sure you'd agree. We are absolutely open to any other suggestions that the public or this committee have as to what more we can and should do. There are a number of things, the sorts of programmes you've mentioned, that I think could be more effective. We're currently looking at breastfeeding because it starts before birth, actually. We know that children who are breastfed are less likely to suffer from obesity in childhood and, indeed, to go on to be obese adults. So, we do need to go further on that. We do have some programmes—Healthy Working Wales, et cetera—that need to be improved. If there are other interventions in other areas that we need to take, then we'd be delighted to hear what they are, but those are the ones that have jumped out so far.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Can I just say—? One of the proposals we're looking for is, obviously, we know that during pregnancy it's a really critical time when we can actually look to work with mothers. We know from looking at some of the behaviour change that it's actually a really critical point when new mothers really start thinking about their lives, wanting the best for their child and their families. So, what we are thinking about is how we could develop some kind of approaches to that going forward. But we know our Healthy Start scheme is also a good lever for us, just in terms of how we can look to improve that kind of dietary offer at the earliest stage as well.",
"speaker": "Nathan Cook"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Finally, we know that for some families day-to-day challenges can make it difficult for them to make healthy choices, particularly for those on lower incomes and/or maybe using food banks. Could the Welsh Government take bolder action to better support low-income families to eat healthily?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, you've touched on a really important point about inequalities because overweight and obesity is not evenly distributed across our population. It absolutely is more prevalent in more socioeconomically deprived communities, and that's something that should really concern us all. So, it gets you to questions of availability of fresh food and produce; it gets you to questions of formulation of products and whether value brands are less healthy than more premium brands. So, it cuts across all of those issues that we talked about in terms of settings and in terms of environment earlier. There is something about the affordability of good-quality healthy food that we need to think about. We do need to think in broad terms—broader terms than just obesity, but we do need to think in broad terms—about how we create a society where families have the wherewithal to lead healthy lives, and that gets you to really important questions about the minimum wage and income poverty. There's no doubt in my mind—I'm a public health professional—and there's no doubt in my mind that economic success and health success go hand in hand. So, you speak to a very deep question there. In terms of what we can do through this particular consultation, there are some things in there about providing better access, but without tackling some of those deeper determinants of health, their impact will necessarily be limited.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Just finally from me, then, you referred earlier to the importance of making every contact count, but some stakeholders have told the committee that they struggle to do that because of difficulties in availability of people to refer to. Is that a situation that you recognise and what, really, can we do to improve that situation?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it depends what you mean as to where to refer to. So, the health system obviously needs to respond to this issue. What we're seeing across the NHS is a gradual transformation in primary care so that primary care is no longer about going to see your GP, it's about going to see a practice where you have a range of health professionals. Would I like to see more dietetic support, for example, in that setting? Absolutely I would. I think we need to think in terms of that pathway that we were talking about earlier, about access to that kind of advice and support, which can head off people getting into problems and kids getting into problems with weight issues. So, that question of redesign of the pathway really speaks to, I think, your point about, 'Well, where do people go when they have problems with their weight?' That's true for adults and it's true for children as well.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members? No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both very much for your attendance? It's been a really productive session. We appreciate your time. You will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy in due course, but thank you again.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We'll do that. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee, because getting some input into the consultation from children's perspectives, this would be one of the routes we would absolutely welcome. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Dr Frank Atherton"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you very much. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee on CAMHS tier 4 provision. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services also on CAMHS in-patient provision. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Children Commissioner for Wales on tier 4 CAMHS provision. Paper to note 4 is a letter from Qualifications Wales to the Minister for Education on qualifications for the new curriculum. Paper to note 5 is a letter from me to the Minister for Education on the development of the new curriculum. Paper to note 6 is a letter from me to the Minister for Education seeking clarification on the draft additional learning needs code. Paper to note 7 is a letter from me to the Minister for Education seeking clarification on the response to our Brexit report. Paper to note 8 is a letter from the Equality and Human Rights Commission on a cumulative impact assessment briefing for committee, which has been offered. Paper to note 9 is a letter from the Chair of the Petitions Committee on a national taskforce for children’s mental health. Paper to note 10 is a letter to the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union from the children’s commissioners for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland on the implications of Brexit for children. There are a few that I'd like to return to in private, but are Members happy to note those? Thank you. Okay. Item 4, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. There's somebody up there.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_16 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"41"
]
],
"topic": "The value of the baccalaureate"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"42",
"54"
],
[
"149",
"153"
]
],
"topic": "The grading system and its fairness"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"55",
"99"
]
],
"topic": "Universities' views on the baccalaureate"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"100",
"122"
]
],
"topic": "The universal adoption"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"123",
"124"
]
],
"topic": "The mental and emotional health of young people"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"125",
"149"
]
],
"topic": "The effect of the Welsh baccalaureate on wider education provisions"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting was mainly about the Welsh baccalaureate. The committee began with the value of the baccalaureate. There have been young people who entered universities with a baccalaureate qualification. The goal of the committee was to further refine the qualification to balance it with other qualifications that had been recognized by universities and school leaders such as A-Levels. The grading system has been admitted to be rigorous. Students were expected to be evaluated on their individual ability. Although universities showed ambivalent attitudes towards the baccalaureate, its advantage could not be denied. The committee aimed to aid financially in the Welsh schools in organizing the baccalaureate and offering its corresponding courses of high quality.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams admitted that the grading system was rigorous and equivalent to A-Level. A UCAS tariff associated with it, and it was the individual ability that was evaluated by the system. About the resit issue, the committee agreed that WJEC and the Qualifications Wales was supposed to regulate this.",
"query": "What was the grading system and its fairness?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"42",
"54"
],
[
"149",
"153"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams assured the committee members that the grading system was rigorous and it focused on the students' ability to think independently. When Dawn Bowden challenged the value of the Welsh baccalaureate, Kirsty Williams defended its qualification by demonstrating its tariff for UCAS. He reiterated that the evaluation engaged and expanded the acquisition of knowledge and skills.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams think of the grading system and its fairness?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"42",
"48"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Suzy Davies doubted that teachers might not pay enough attention to students' preparation for the baccalaureate and were prone to \"spoon-feed\". Kirsty Williams, however, pointed out that this was unlikely to happen, for different from the A-Levels which graded students under the particular syllabus of each subject, the baccalaureate evaluated the personal project and the ability of independent thinking.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion of the occurrence of \"spoon-feeding\" in post-16 education.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"49",
"54"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The committee members disagreed on the universities' attitudes. Hefin David pointed out that according to the response of an online survey, universities such as Cardiff University refused to consider the baccalaureate as a fair substitute for a full A-Level. However, Kirsty Williams claimed that he had a personal commitment to establishing the recognition of the baccalaureate with the universities and almost all Welsh universities recognized the baccalaureate as a qualification. In the end, despite the ambivalent attitudes of universities, the committee had to admit that the admissions practice was decided by universities and the baccalaureate qualification still required refinement.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about universities' views on the baccalaureate?",
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"answer": "No, Kirsty Williams still showed confidence in the value of the baccalaureate. Despite the committee members' provision of contradictory evidence, he emphasized the importance of the communication with universities. Kirsty Williams believed that the baccalaureate was a beneficial endeavour for students to undertake before their entrance to the universities, rather than a detriment.",
"query": "Did Kirsty Williams' attitude towards the baccalaureate change after the discussion about universities' views on it?",
"relevant_text_span": [
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"57",
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"answer": "Andrew Clark thought the inconsistency reflected the different ways that universities treat the skill challenge certificates and the baccalaureate, whose prime focus was individual ability. He added that the universities' attitudes had changed significantly since there was a graded qualification, for even those who did not make the baccalaureate part of their offer considered it a valuable sign that young people were prepared to go to university.",
"query": "What did Andrew Clark think of the inconsistency with how admission offers were made concerning the skill challenge certificates?",
"relevant_text_span": [
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"answer": "The committee members expressed their hope that all schools would be able to organize the baccalaureate, as well as its corresponding training courses. Via their professional programs, there would be more available support for teachers to ensure that they had the skills and the confidence to deliver the qualification in a high-quality manner. Financial support would be provided as well.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the universal adoption?",
"relevant_text_span": [
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"answer": "Kirsty Williams explained to the committee members that the funding would go via consortia to schools. Individual schools had the right to plan independently in which aspects they would spend the money in order to meet the professional learning needs of their staff. Thus, if the schools realized that they had particular needs for the baccalaureate, they would spend the money in the area to seek improvement.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams think of the funding that went to the consortia?",
"relevant_text_span": [
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"answer": "Kirsty Williams admitted that the qualification examinations would bring pressure to students. In fact, as he pointed out, students were prone to form a wrong impression that the more they had achieved, the more successful they would get. Thus, he expressed his desire to guide the students to make the right decisions in terms of their A-Levels and baccalaureate.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the mental and emotional health of young people?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"123",
"124"
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},
{
"answer": "Janet Finch-Saunders worried about the narrowing of the curriculum at Key Stage 4. Kirsty Williams assured her that the skill challenge certificate actually ensured a broad variety of choices available. He added that the Qualifications Wales had reviewed into the qualification to see whether the teachers were too onerous and if there was any duplication in students' examinations. As for the Welsh learners who chose England institutions instead of Welsh ones, Kirsty Williams explained that the reasons behind might be various and hard to quantify.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the effect of the Welsh baccalaureate on wider education provisions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"125",
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{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams admitted that the crossing and moves were happening and did not deny the evidence as Sian Gwenllian implied. On the contrary, he believed that the reason behind the crossing was complicated and hard to quantify. He exemplified some of them: the eagerness to adjust to the English system, the nature of the offer (the combination of the A-Levels that institution offered), etc. In conclusion, Kirsty Williams believed that no effective evidence could demonstrate that the avoidance of the baccalaureate was the sole driver for the students choices to move to other areas.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams think of the students who crossed the border of the Welsh and attended institutions that did not offer Welsh-medium provision?",
"relevant_text_span": [
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"answer": "On the topic of teachers' training, Kirsty Williams quoted from the ITE programmes that Teachers should be able to help children and young people to make links across their learning, bringing together different aspects to examine important topics such as citizenship, enterprise, financial capability and sustainability. The shifts in pedagogical principles were expected accordingly.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams think of the teachers' training for better skills of delivering the baccalaureate?",
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{
"content": "Okay, good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members whether there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning is our evidence session with the Cabinet Secretary for Education for our inquiry into the status of the Welsh baccalaureate qualification. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education; Kevin Palmer, who is deputy director, pedagogy, leadership and professional learning; and Andrew Clark, deputy director, further education and apprenticeships division. So, thank you all for attending, and we're looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. If you're happy, Cabinet Secretary, we'll go straight to questions.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Of course.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And the first questions are from Julie Morgan.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Chair, and bore da. I was going to ask some general questions about the value of the baccalaureate. Could you give us your views on how the Welsh bac is valued by learners and teachers?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Bore da, Julie, and thank you very much for your question. Firstly, I'd like to begin by saying that I as the Cabinet Secretary value the qualification very much indeed. I believe that it helps ensure that we are able to give our young people in Wales a broad and balanced curriculum, recognising the need to develop knowledge and skills in core subjects but recognising also that the purpose of education is to help prepare our children for further study and the world of work, and I believe that the skills challenge element of the baccalaureate does just that. I meet with young people and teachers all the time who tell me about the positive experiences they have had studying for the Welsh bac, and much of that was evidenced in Qualifications Wales's review into the Welsh baccalaureate. They did focus group work with a representative sample, and many of the learners expressed the fact that they have enjoyed studying for the qualification and have gained a great deal from it. I meet regularly with individuals who have been able to use their bac to successfully gain a place at university, so I believe there's a huge value for Welsh young people being able to study this particular qualification alongside the more traditional qualifications that perhaps we're all used to. I think the challenge is that, given that many people are very familiar with what a GCSE is and, as parents, we will know what that is and many of us will have done—some of us are so old we'll have done O-levels. We know what those traditional qualifications look like, and therefore a new qualification—there's always a job of work to do to communicate that, if people aren't used to it, but I value it hugely. I think that, whilst there is always room for improvement—and, of course, you'll be aware of the review that Qualifications Wales undertook and that has suggested ways in which we can further improve and refine the qualification, but I think it is a valuable piece of work for Welsh young people to undertake.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "It's great that you've been around listening to learners and what they have said about it. Have you had any negative feedback?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, occasionally, of course, we do have concerns raised with us, and those concerns are similar to the ones that have been raised in the Qualifications Wales review. So, for instance, we sometimes have concerns about how some students balance the Welsh bac with other qualifications they may be taking. Some teachers feed back around the workload issues associated with the Welsh baccalaureate. For some students, there may be concerns about the nature of the Welsh bac and whether that can impact negatively on their well-being. And, obviously, that's why Qualifications Wales have undertaken this piece of work so that we can refine, if necessary, that qualification and how we continue to look at how we ensure my belief that taking the Welsh bac should be the norm for students but also recognising that, in some cases, there needs to be flexibility to ensure that the well-being of the student is not compromised.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And so would you say that it's valued by learners more or less at key stage 4 or post 16?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think that, as I said, the vast majority of students I meet report very positively about the opportunities that are afforded for studying at that level. Occasionally, we hear from students who I believe think that in studying the subject they may be compromising their chances because they want to do additional A-levels, and I'm sure we'll come on to, later on, whether universities, and whether the Russell Group universities in particular, value the qualification. But I feel that there are particular strengths. And I think what's really important, and, in talking to universities, since the qualification became graded, rather than just a pass/fail qualification—I think that added rigour since 2015 has been particularly important in ensuring that there's real value in students undertaking that work.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And what about the effect that the leadership in the school has on the way that the bac is received? Have you—?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "As always, Julie, leadership is crucial, and students' experiences can be very coloured by the attitude towards the teacher delivering that particular course. And, therefore, we need to continue, alongside the WJEC and Qualifications Wales, to ensure that the Welsh bac is communicated to children in a positive way, the benefits are explained to children and their parents, and, also, we need to ensure that those who are tasked with teaching Welsh bac in their schools or colleges feel confident in their ability to do so and to ensure that students have a really positive experience of that qualification, because if you're being taught by someone who is telling you, 'Oh, I don't know why we're having to do this', then, obviously that's going to colour how you feel about it. And, if I'm honest, I recently attended a youth forum, where young people from the county were discussing all sorts of issues—everything from the environment to their experience in school—and I was struck by the group of year 12 and year 13 students. I specifically asked them about the bac—I always take the opportunity to ask them about their experience of the baccalaureate. One school, the group of students said, 'It's fantastic. We really enjoy it. It's really valuable. I'm learning a lot.' Students from a school seven miles away—just seven miles away—said, 'Oh, I don't know why we're having to do this.' And I suspect that that has got more to do with how that is being delivered in their institutions than it has about the quality of the qualification. So, we need to keep ensuring that those who are tasked with this see it as important, communicate that to students, and have the confidence and the ability to deliver a really positive experience.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think our experiences in the committee are very similar. Within the same room, actually, we've had two completely different sets of views. So, what do you intend to do to try to ensure that there's consistent support and enthusiasm for the bac from the leaders?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, first of all, we have the design group of Qualifications Wales looking to address some of the issues that arose out of the report around ensuring that, especially from a teacher workload perspective, it's not too onerous in terms of assessment. So, there's that to do to make sure that we're not asking children to duplicate and do things over and over and over again, which, of course, for any of us, would be wearing and we would question to the value of. So, there's the design group looking at the qualification itself. We are ensuring, as part of our professional learning for teachers that—. There are existing opportunities via the regional consortia for support for teaching of the qualification. The WJEC has resources and support available, but we will look, as we roll out our national approach to professional learning, at that the professional learning needs of those already in the system are addressed. Of course, our accreditation for our new initial teacher education is predominantly addressed at being able to deliver the new curriculum, but, if you think about the elements of 'Successful Futures' and the skills and the knowledge and the pedagogy associated with that, it's very much in line with the Welsh baccalaureate challenge certificate. So, actually, there are opportunities via initial teacher education as well, and we continue to need to look to work with our partners to be able to reinforce why this is a worthwhile qualification. And I have to say I think the best people to do that—. It's not me. I'd like to see past students of the Welsh baccalaureate being able to talk about their own experiences and why it's made a difference to them. I come across individuals for whom their place at university has been secured by that Welsh baccalaureate, and, all of a sudden, if that's what's got you your place, it becomes a lot more valuable than perhaps it was six months before. We need to make sure that students are aware, and teachers and school leaders are aware, of the importance that this qualification has.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Suzy, did you have a supplementary?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I've got one on IT, but I'll leave that one. I just want to go back to Julie's question about whether there was a different perspective or a different sense of value for students who are post 16 and those who are pre 16. When one of the college leaders here was asked whether he had people coming to him in his FE college who've been through the pre-16 bac and had heard evidence or had stories of, basically, those children cobbling together their bac in the last four weeks of term before they got there, he said that yes, that is his experience. Does that worry you at all, because, of course, the whole purpose of bac is to teach skills over a period of time, and its purpose cannot be fulfilled by getting it all done in the last term of—which year am I in?—year 11, in order to satisfy the curriculum?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Obviously, that's not the experience that we would want young people to have, and, as someone who has had a daughter just finish year 11, that's certainly not the experience that my daughter had in her particular school, and I have another daughter who has just gone into year 10, where the Welsh bac has started in year 10 and it is a a two-year course in which elements are undertaken. Obviously, we will need to address, as part of the design group and the work that Qualifications Wales is doing, how that is playing out in individual schools. But that would not be a positive experience; we want this to be taken in exactly the same way as we would expect a GCSE to be taught over a period of two years. But, Andrew, I don't know if there's anything you'd like to add from the college perspective.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it is variable. I think that it will depend on the feeder schools to the colleges and it'll depend upon the delivery models that are in existence in those schools. It's been around as a qualification now for about a decade, I think. There have been differences in the way that the subject has been—sorry, not the subject, the qualification has been delivered. And I think it'll be helped by a recent review by Qualifications Wales, because they're doing a survey at the moment as to different delivery models in different locations, and that, perhaps, will inform more even practice as we move forwards.",
"speaker": "Andrew Clark"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and Estyn and consortia are looking at it as well. I don't want to cut across questions, so, thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "No, but it's a known issue, if you like, that various people are attempting to address and bring a more uniform mode of delivery across the nation.",
"speaker": "Andrew Clark"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We've got some more detailed questions now on understanding, from Siân Gwenllian.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just to drill down rather deeper into the issue of the variability in the way in which the Welsh bac is provided, could you explain why you think that this inconsistency is happening, and then what the impact of the inconsistency and variability is on the value that learners attach to the bac and their understanding of it?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the variability can be perhaps explained by the fact that it's a new type of qualification, the fact that different schools have adopted it at different rates—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Ten years?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said, over that time, there were some early adopters who have done it in a certain way, there are some people who've come later to it, who may be doing it in a different way. And, as I said, it's quite a different departure from traditional O-levels, from GCSE-type subjects, where there is a programme of work and a syllabus. So, it is a different nature of qualification, and, therefore, as Andrew has just alluded to, schools have approached it in a different way. We are alert to that and Qualifications Wales, crucially, is alert to that, and we are looking to ensure greater consistency in how it is delivered in individual schools. We're also aware, in the school setting, in pre 16, there are some concerns about the onerousness of the workload associated with the evaluation of the students' work. Now, clearly, there is a difference between onerous and rigorous. We wrote the qualification to be a rigorous qualification for the students, but we don't want it to be jeopardised by the evaluation of it being too onerous. So, there's that balance to be struck. Again, that's one of the issues that the design group and Qualifications Wales are looking at. That process is a really important process, so there is the design group, but working alongside the design group, who they are testing the messages and testing their thoughts with, is a stakeholder group, and there is also a practitioners group. So, that work by the design group is being tested with those people who have an interest: business, for instance, the world of work—is this qualification really giving students the skills that are valued by potential employers?—but it's also testing its thinking with the practitioners, those people who will be charged with the delivery of the qualification, and I think that's really important to be able to get an understanding of the challenges of making sure there's a consistency, and what are the barriers to that, and what steps need to be taken to ensure a greater level of consistency in delivery.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Is there a correlation between consistency in general? Because we know that there's polarisation in the secondary school sector between the good schools and the not-so-good schools. And is there a correlation between—if the schools are good according to Estyn, or excellent, are they also good, excellent at delivering the bac? Is it a fundamental inconsistency across the sector that's causing this inconsistency?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't know. I don't have that data to hand, but, of course, from next year, the bac will be a dedicated performance measure for schools. So, actually, we will be looking specifically at completion of the bac as part of the wider set of school performance measures. So perhaps we will be in a better position once that's formally established to be able to track progress.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Because some of the evidence we've heard is that if the leadership is good around the bac in the school, well, everything else follows from that. So, it makes sense to me that it could be.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely. As I said, I don't have the figures to hand, but, as I said, from next year, the bac actually becomes a formal part of the performance measures for schools.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Fine. I'll turn, therefore, to the understanding of employers of the Welsh bac and the skills challenge certificate. From the evidence that we've had, it appears that there is a problem in this area, that is, employers generally don't value the qualification. Is that your experience, and how can we improve that? How can we elicit more engagement from employers of all sizes with the value of the baccalaureate?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the first thing to say is my understanding of the development of the bac is that employers' voices were reflected and they were part of the process that drew up the qualification in the first place. You'll be aware of the review by Qualifications Wales that found that many employers say that the skills that are developed through the baccalaureate are exactly the kinds of skills that they want young people to be acquiring whilst at school, that put them in a good place for looking for employment later. I would agree with you, Siân, and not just in terms of the bac, there are lots of reasons why we need greater working between education and employers. I sit down with employer organisations to try and explore better ways in which we can work together—everything from ensuring that children have work experience opportunities through to, for instance, what more some of our companies could do to take up governors' roles, for instance, in our local schools, so that employer voice and that business voice are heard at a school management level. I think these things are really important. It's something that's sometimes difficult. There are some excellent examples of really good practice where local employers work really closely with schools. I think of Sony in Bridgend doing a really, really, really good job working with their local schools. In other areas, where you haven't got such a big employer, it can be difficult, can't it, for a small business that is trying to do their small business to think about, 'Oh my goodness, I've got to do something to help improve the education system as well.' So, I'm always looking at new ways in which we can get that working together. As I said, the Qualifications Wales design group has a stakeholder group that is helping them with their review into the qualification at the moment, but there are really good examples where employers and other organisations are working together. We also need to continue, I think, to communicate more clearly with employers the nature of the qualification. Again, because it's relatively new, and the brands of the GCSE and A-level are so strong, people know what they are, unless you've either done the Welsh bac yourself or you have a son or a daughter, or a grandson or granddaughter who has gone through the process, you're probably going to be less familiar, and we need to continue to work together with the WJEC and Qualifications Wales as a Government to better communicate the value of the qualification.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, you agree that there is a specific piece of work that needs to be done around employers and that the Government should be leading that.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and we are working closely with, as I said, Qualifications Wales to develop a joint communication plan, and we continue, as I said, as part of Qualifications Wales's review into the nature of the qualification—employers' voices are being heard as part of that particular piece of work. But more generally, yes, I think there's more that we can do to better engage employers with the education system in lots and lots of different ways.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Not just on the Welsh bac.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Just before we move off this section, the variability that the committee has seen has been quite pronounced, really. We've been to a school where they've got a passionate and dedicated Welsh bac school leader, but then we've spoken to other schools where it's tagged on to a variety of teachers' roles, and that clearly has an impact on the way it's being taught. You said in your answer to Siân that you're trying to ensure more consistency in the delivery of it, and you referred to the performance measures; are the performance measures the main vehicle by which you're going to ensure consistency, or are you planning to issue any more guidance to schools on how it should be delivered on the ground?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We will need to reflect the work that Qualifications Wales is undertaking. Professional learning, I think, has a role to play as well as performance measures. So it's not just one thing that we can do that will change this, it is a number of things—everything from the communications plan to making sure that teachers who find themselves responsible for delivering this feel confident and have had the professional learning opportunities to give them the skills so that they do a great job in delivering a positive experience to students. The performance measures, of course, as we know—sometimes in schools, it is those that make schools focus on something. So there's a wide variety of ways in which I think we can look to ensure more consistency. But, in the end, I think it is professional learning and teacher training, ITE, that will make the biggest difference.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And just on understanding, one of the things the young people in Crickhowell told us was that they thought the name should be changed. They felt that it wasn't reflective of exactly what the qualification is and that maybe having something that was clearer would be better. Is that something you've considered?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, first of all, I need to declare an interest, because that's the school my daughter goes to, and I don't know if she was the one—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "She wasn't. Angharad wasn't there.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "She wasn't the one who said that. Certainly, I'd have to reflect. My gut instinct tells me that one of the issues that we have is developing an understanding of the brand and what that qualification is, and if we move away from 'Welsh bac' and suddenly start to call it something else, I think that could be even harder and set us back from where we are. So, that's not to dismiss it, and I would want to reflect on those views, but I think if one of the issues that we've got is developing a better understanding of the qualification; if we were to suddenly change the name of it, that might have the unintended consequence of making that job even harder. But, obviously, if the committee was to make a recommendation, we would—I'm happy to reflect on that evidence, but, as I said, my gut instinct would tell me that there could be an unintended consequence of moving away from that brand.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. The next questions are from Dawn Bowden.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. You touched on this once or twice in answers to questions about how rigorous the qualification is. We've had mixed evidence, I would suggest, from groups of stakeholders. We've heard people say that the Welsh bac has no rigour, that pupils are spoon-fed. We've heard that the Welsh bac is passively marked, the grades are inflated, that there's little rigour in the sampling and moderation, there's a confusion about how the SCC is graded, and I know that's something you talked about, actually, that introducing the grading system is improving the rigour. I suppose my question to you is: if the Welsh bac is being seen in this way by stakeholders, how are going to address that? To what extent is that a real problem?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I think making it a graded qualification has been really important, and I make no apologies for this qualification being rigorous—no apologies for that at all. That's how it should be, and that's how you create value, by ensuring that a qualification is rigorous. What's really important is that it's not just me saying that it's rigorous; there is an independent process that benchmarks qualifications. The fact is that at advanced level—because I don't know if you're making these observations about the pre-16 Welsh bac, or whether we're talking about the advanced level qualification—that is the equivalent of an A-level. It's been benchmarked against A-levels. It has a UCAS tariff associated with it. It is used by universities as a means of qualification that gains entrance into a university in just the same way as an A-level is. So, therefore, I don't have any concerns about the rigour of the qualification. In terms of spoon-feeding, one of the reasons why universities like the qualification is that it's very difficult, for instance, in the individual project work to be spoon-fed. It is very demanding of individual students, and it's very difficult in a way. That's one of the reasons why it's valuable, isn't it, because it teaches a different set of skills? Because if you're doing a traditional, say, history A-level or a science A-level, there's a very strict syllabus and a course, there's a textbook and people are taught to that particular syllabus; with the Welsh bac, it is individual students that have to think, for instance, of their own individual project. You can't get those off a shelf, and you can't necessarily just find that information easily. There's real skill involved in being able to do that well and get graded well for that. So, I do not have concerns about the rigour. I do have concerns about some of the feedback by Qualifications Wales about the onerousness of the evaluation and what that means for teacher workload, which is one of the things that Qualifications Wales is looking at. But in terms of rigour and people being spoon-fed, then I don't share those concerns.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, because those were concerns, in the main, that were articulated by people delivering the Welsh bac—by teachers. So, I suppose the question then comes back to some of the other points that were being raised about the consistency, because that may well be from those teachers in schools where they're not taking the bac as seriously as some others are.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "And, of course, there would be—. There is a professional responsibility for those teachers delivering that qualification to ensure that the ethos of that qualification and the skills—. It would potentially be a disservice to students if that qualification was being delivered in that way.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And I think what I was trying to do was to highlight the different opinions, because we also heard from teachers who were saying that those involved with teaching and studying understood absolutely its rigour, so it was the mixed message, I guess, I was just trying to test out with you. Similarly, on the skills challenge certificate, again we've heard from various stakeholders about whether, in fact, this is considered to be an equivalent qualification. We've heard people say that it is different—it's not the same as an A-level—so, therefore you can't absolutely hold it up and say it's the same as an A-level. It requires different skills, and so on and so forth. So, just your thoughts and views on that, really, as an equivalent qualification.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "It's not a question of if this is an equivalent qualification; this is an equivalent qualification. There is a rigorous process that is undertaken to evaluate these qualifications independent of the Government, and it's not a question. Is it a different model and a different way of studying? Yes, of course it is, and that's why we do it. That's why I want children and young people to do both sets of qualifications, because it does engage and expand the acquisition of knowledge and skills. So, yes, it's different. Is it equivalent? Yes, it is, and that's why, since the graded qualification came in, it is regarded by independent bodies as an equivalent to an A-level, and it has a tariff for UCAS in the same way as A-levels would have tariffs. You only have to speak to the institutes of higher education who use this qualification as a way of setting grades—you know, offers—for students that they see that in the same way as well.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Suzy's got a supplementary before we go on to talk in detail about universities.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Is that okay? Because I just want to go back to this element of spoon-feeding at post 16, where you said it's actually very difficult for that to occur, because, obviously, we're talking about the personal project, and so forth. We heard evidence in one of the schools sessions we did that baccalaureate students were being offered a very short and narrow list of subjects on which they could do their personal project, which actually limited the scope of what they were able to do. And we've also heard separately—it may have been with the colleges, I can't quite remember now—that some students were being told, 'On your personal project, just put in what you did for your GCSE-level baccalaureate, and add a few paragraphs.' I'm wondering how easy it is to disguise spoon-feeding at post 16 when we've got two instances there that, to me, suggest it's more about the convenience of the teachers, who perhaps may not be very enthusiastic about the bac, rather than making sure those children get the best out of the qualification.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. And that would be really disappointing. And, again, if I can use my own personal family experience, my daughter has tried that on with her Welsh bac teacher. She's in a different school from where she did her earlier bac, and she said, 'Oh, well, I'll just rehash my \"Votes at 16\" that I did last year', and the Welsh bac teacher has said, 'Under no circumstances are you to do that—no, that's not allowed.' This is about using your individual project, linked to something that maybe you hope to study at university, to get the value out of this qualification, and for you to be able to use this in your personal statement, and potentially in an interview. So, again, I guess what this does is show that there's a variation, but certainly, where it is being delivered well, then that practice would not be encouraged, because it would be seen to be—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "It's gaming.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "—denuding the students of the very valuable experience the qualification has to offer.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. Cheers.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. We've got some questions now on how universities view it. Hefin David.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We've had an online survey response, which was quite a stark comment, not from the vice-chancellor's office, but from a member of staff within Cardiff University. And it said: 'The Welsh Bacc is not a fair substitute for a full A-level, and should not be regarded as such. I consider it to be a disadvantage for Welsh students, compared with their English counterparts.' Can you reflect on that?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't agree.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Do you think that that's a view that's held within universities, and are you concerned about that? Because it is a view that's obviously held within Cardiff University.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "No; I would say that that is a view held by an individual in Cardiff University—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Who has influence over students.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, that is a view held by an individual in Cardiff University. And, actually, Cardiff University—indeed, all Welsh universities—accept the Welsh baccalaureate as an A-level equivalent. I think it is really important to reflect on the wide range of opportunities at higher education that the Welsh bac affords individuals. That means that it is deemed as an equivalent to A-level for the vast majority of universities, to get in to some of the most competitive courses, such as dentistry, medicine, veterinary science. So, those courses where we know there's a high demand and high competition for places, there are institutions that are using that, including Cardiff to get into their medical degree.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Nick Brazil, the deputy principal of Gower College, said about 50 per cent of the Russell Group don't value the Welsh bac.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I don't know where he's getting that from. I have made it a personal commitment to establish this with universities. I have visited both Cambridge and Oxford. I spoke again to Cambridge, Oxford, Bath, Southampton, St Andrews, only last week, who were exhibiting at the Seren conference. I specifically took the opportunity to meet with those universities and to talk to them about how they feel about the Welsh bac. They have a high regard for the Welsh baccalaureate in a variety of ways. First of all, for many of those universities, for many of their courses, they use the Welsh bac as an equivalent to an A-level. If they don't, there are some courses, for instance, where they will lower their offer to gain a place at that university if the Welsh bac is passed at a certain level. So, for instance, rather than maybe offering a Welsh student A, A, B, they would offer a Welsh student A, B, B, plus a Welsh bac, thus giving students two opportunities to gain a place at that university, either with or without their Welsh bac qualification. Even for those universities that don't use the Welsh baccalaureate as a formal part of their offer—and this is the conversation I had again last week with Oxford and Cambridge—they value it as part of a student's personal statement; they value it as part of the interview process in which a student may or may not then be offered a place at that university; and they also recognise that the skills learnt by students whilst undertaking the Welsh baccalaureate are exactly the skills that those students need to make a successful transition from A-level work to university-type work, which, if you can imagine, is very much based on individual research and being able to guide your own learning. So, I just don't recognise that in some way Welsh students are being disadvantaged. The message I get consistently from universities is that there are significant advantages to Welsh learners taking this qualification.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. You can not recognise it, but that is contrary to the evidence that we've received. I'm not saying that the evidence is conclusive, but it actually demonstrates inconsistency. So, would you go so far as to accept instead then that there is an inconsistency in the way that universities use the Welsh bac as a tool for application?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "You would know better than anybody, Hefin, that universities are autonomous institutions and they set their own methods of entry into those institutions. What I'm telling you is that the evidence that I have received from universities is that, whilst there is a variety of approaches to how they regard the qualification in terms of offers, consistently, absolutely across the board, all universities tell me that the Welsh baccalaureate is a valuable qualification and does not disadvantage Welsh students.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "If the committee were to produce a report based on the evidence we've received, that would be contrary to what you've just said. So, I think we'd end up in a debate in which we are setting out different points of view. So, would you therefore commit to exploring that perspective?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Hefin, I would argue that I have indeed explored that perspective because I have taken the trouble to find out first-hand—not via my officials, but first-hand—from those institutions, their views. So, this is not something that is hearsay; I have undertaken to ascertain the views of those universities. We have written to all vice-chancellors—last year—with regard to the Welsh baccalaureate qualification. Qualifications Wales has an individual whose specific job it is to ensure that universities across the United Kingdom understand the value of Welsh qualifications. That will become increasingly important as we see a divergence between English and Welsh qualifications. But I have to say that the evidence that I have from universities is that the Welsh baccalaureate, whilst it may be used in different ways in terms of an offer, the consistency from all universities is that it is a valuable qualification. If you've heard differently from admissions tutors and from the universities officially, rather than from somebody who has e-mailed in, then I would be pleased to look at that evidence, because it would be in stark contrast to what I am being told by universities.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Hefin is not referring to an e-mail—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "No, I've said that.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "—we did do a survey and we've also taken oral evidence.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and it's representing the evidence that we received.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "And I'm presenting you with the evidence that I've received.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But it will be presented to you as a submission from this committee, no doubt. Let's look at some admissions offers instead then. You do concede that there is inconsistency with how admissions offers are made with regard to the skills challenge certificate. How would you suggest that that is addressed?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Hefin, each individual institution and university the length and breadth of the UK have different ways in which they make offers to individuals. What is absolutely clear to me, and if the concern is around the type of institution—. So, for instance, it is accepted as a third-grade offer in Bristol, Edinburgh, Exeter, Lancaster, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, the London School of Economics—some of the highest performing universities and Russell Group universities. It is accepted as a fourth qualification or amends the offer in places like Bath University, and it is accepted in tariff-point offers in places like Hull and the University of the West of England. So there is a variety of ways in which universities use the qualification, and that is their prerogative—that's their prerogative as institutions. They will have different ways in which they recruit and how they offer places, just like different universities will have different views on unconditional offers. You know, there's a difference in universities there, isn't there? Some universities don't have unconditional offers at all; other universities—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, what you're saying is that the problem isn't connected to the Welsh bac, it's connected with just the way that universities make offers, and the Welsh bac has got nothing to do with it.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I’m saying there is a variety. Just like any other qualification, there is a variety in how universities use qualifications for offers. What I’m saying to you is that, in the conversations that I have had with Russell Group universities, what they say is that there is certainly no detriment to any Welsh student undertaking this qualification. They value the qualification. They think it is useful. It develops a set of skills that help students to make that transition into higher education. And therefore, I think it is a myth—I would go as far as to say that it’s a myth—that Welsh students are disadvantaged in any way by taking this qualification. Sorry, Andrew.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Could I just add to that response? There are, obviously, differences in the way that universities treat the skills challenge certificate and the Welsh baccalaureate, which is the prime focus of this. The attitude of the universities has changed significantly since that was a graded qualification.",
"speaker": "Andrew Clark"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that has made a difference.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And even those who do not make it part of their offer consider it exceedingly valuable in the way that young people are prepared to go to university and, therefore, as part of their personal statement, as part of their interview, the activity that the young person has taken by means of the skills challenge certificate is definitely recognised, even by those who don’t actually make it part of their offer. So, we’re still on a journey—that graded qualification has only been taught for a couple of years, but the journey is taking us to the right place, towards the right destination.",
"speaker": "Andrew Clark"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, it isn’t just about variable admissions practices across universities; it is to deal with the skills challenge certificate as well, which needed changing in order to improve that.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "But that was changed in September 2015. When it was a 'yes'/'no' qualification, I think they held it in less regard than they do now that it is a graded qualification.",
"speaker": "Andrew Clark"
},
{
"content": "And that’s the conversation we had with some of our Russell Group universities.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And that was an important shift three years ago.",
"speaker": "Andrew Clark"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, last question, then: are you absolutely confident that any concerns we are offering are nothing really to worry about?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "We will need to continue to communicate to all audiences the importance of this and the value of this qualification. But I am confident that the university sector, in its wide variety of forms, regards the Welsh baccalaureate qualification as a valuable endeavour for Welsh students to undertake, and they certainly don’t regard it as a detriment to students.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Siân wants to come in on this, and then I've got a question from Suzy on Seren.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, just that the committee, of course, has been trying to gain evidence on this sector from the universities themselves, but Universities Wales, which represents the interests of universities in Wales, has rejected the committee's invitation to submit any oral or written evidence. So, can you see the dilemma we're in? We are hearing a few things coming from some universities, we hear what you're saying, but we can't get to the root of the matter because the universities themselves aren't willing to come to speak to us. Are you also disappointed that they have rejected our invitation to come and speak to us?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Where's the enthusiasm, Chair? Where's the enthusiasm?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "And perhaps that's a sign that they don't want to be drawn into this argument between the Government and us as a committee.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it’s a matter for individual universities to decide whether they want to participate in the work of this committee. I would urge them to do so. All Welsh universities regard the Welsh baccalaureate as an equivalent to A-level, and all universities use it as part of their offer—Welsh universities.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but you see what our dilemma is, though, because if we can’t actually ask them directly, it's a bit difficult for us to actually probe this and to help move things on? Anyway, I'll leave it at that. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's a matter for them, and maybe the Chair would like to take that up with Universities Wales.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "We have had quite an extensive dialogue with them about it. Suzy on Seren.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "So, just briefly, you’ve said several times that having a Welsh bac qualification is an advantage and certainly no detriment, and that it’s valued by universities. But advantage isn't the same as equivalence, and we have had evidence from—I think it was Cardiff University, again, where they had students with two A-levels and a bac who were actually performing as weaker students. So, even though on the face of it you've got three A-levels, those particular students aren't matching up to the expectations of a student with three A-levels. I do want to challenge what you said about the students who are involved in the Seren network about the baccalaureate being accepted for things like veterinary medicine and medicine itself. We've had evidence from FE colleges, which are now significant players in producing our Seren-style students, if you like, that they are exempting their students from doing the bac because it's a distraction, effectively. What's your comment on that? Because if this is a question of communication, which I suspect you're about to tell me, one of the axioms of good communication is you can have the best marketing in the world, but if the product you're selling isn't highly valued then you're actually just doubling the problem. So, can you explain to me why FE is exempting their highest flyers from doing the bac?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think sometimes colleges make the decision that four or five A-levels is of an advantage, and therefore, if you're asking students to carry that workload, which is a considerable workload, that's the preferred route for more able and talented students. Again, what is quite clear in all the conversations that I have had with Russell Group universities, including Oxford and Cambridge, is that this is a myth. What universities tell me they want is not necessarily students with four or five A-levels; they want students with three really exceptional grades at A-level and a Welsh baccalaureate. I think that's really, really an important message to get across—that it is not necessary to do four or five A-levels if you aspire to go to these Russell Group universities, or if you decide you want to apply to Oxford and Cambridge. As I said, in the conversations that we have had—and there is actually some research, and I will let the committee have links to the research. There is some research to suggest that those students who have been involved in project-based work—and, of course, that's not just the Welsh baccalaureate, that would be the EPQ, which is a qualification that is rapidly gaining traction in England. That is an extended project—research based—qualification, very similar to the individual project element of the Welsh baccalaureate. The EPQ in England is seen as a qualification taken by more able and talented students, and what we see in some of the research that is coming forward is that those students who have engaged in that type of work, project-based work, individual-led, research-based work—those skills are the skills that are really attuned to the nature of university-type work. Therefore, that is valued by universities and there is some indication to say that there is a correlation between the students who have undertaken that work and their potential success at undergraduate level. They also tell me that there is a link between, for instance, being able then to use those skills to gain work experience, placements and internships in the private sector and in the world of work, because, as I said, those types of skills are really, really valuable and therefore that's why they value the qualification.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just add—? It's great that they're telling you, why aren't they telling FE?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said, I think it's really important that FE colleges understand that there is a myth around the fact that these universities are looking for four or five A-levels, and if that's the reason why then colleges are not allowing students or dissuading students from taking the Welsh bac, I think we need to reflect on what's important to those universities—which is the right A-levels. I think it's really, really important that students are given the best advice about the A-levels they need to take, facilitating subjects to get into a university, and the value of the skills and knowledge they will acquire through the Welsh bac as an assistance to them going forward.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thanks. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Actually, it's your set of questions next on universal adoption.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'll try and keep this on the shorter side, if that's okay, everybody. You say in your evidence that you expect universal adoption, basically, by 2020, I think it is, or it might be 2019. What do you think universal adoption actually means? What does it look like? Does it mean 100 per cent adoption?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "What is means is that I expect all institutions to be in a position to deliver the Welsh baccalaureate. I believe it should be an entitlement to all Welsh students to be able to study this qualification, and I believe we should work to the situation where it becomes the norm to take the Welsh baccalaureate. I also recognise that in some individual cases, there may be very good reasons why perhaps this is not aligned to the well-being of that particular student. But when I talk about universal adoption, I expect all our institutions to be in a position to deliver the qualification, and I believe it should be an entitlement for Welsh students to be able to undertake this qualification.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But not an obligation—that's the bit I'm trying to get at.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it should become the norm, and if there are exceptions to that, and there could well be for very legitimate reasons, I think that that flexibility should be allowed. But I think, for those students who are not doing that Welsh baccalaureate, there should be evidence as to why that decision has been taken.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, so there's a presumption. I think the performance measures, probably, are likely to sharpen the minds of some school leaders, so I won't pursue that. But can you tell me what lesson you may have learnt from the universal obligation for students to study Welsh language in schools when those schools weren't particularly ready to offer a quality course?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "As we've rehearsed earlier, it is important that all of our schools and colleges are in a position to deliver this qualification well and deliver a really positive experience to learners. That's why there is existing support available, and via our new professional learning programmes there will be more support available for teachers to ensure that they have the skills and the confidence to deliver the qualification in a high-quality manner.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, that's going to take some time. Would you consider pausing the presumption of universal roll-out until you're absolutely sure that all institutions are able to offer the bac to the quality that you would like to see it delivered?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Not at this stage. I have no intention of pausing. We have evidence that schools are already delivering the qualification really well—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But you know that we've had evidence, and you must have as well, that not all schools are doing it.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "What we do know is that some schools struggle to deliver existing qualifications. I don't know why we would turn round and say that this qualification needs to be stopped when we wouldn't stop other qualifications, and we'd say, 'Well, there we are, we haven't got a 100 per cent guarantee that every single school is delivering this particular qualification especially well, therefore we're going to denude the opportunity of students to study that particular subject.' What we're saying is, 'There is a responsibility on us, on individual schools and on our regional consortia to endure that there is professional learning in place so that all schools are in a position to deliver the qualification well.'",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Isn't it irresponsible to ask students to be obliged to take a qualification that's badly delivered?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "What is irresponsible is not to invest in professional learning to ensure that all schools are in a position to deliver it well.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, I agree with you on that, actually, which is why I was a bit confused when you had some in-year additional money in this year's budget that was being given out to consortia rather than to schools to improve the ability of their teachers to deliver the Welsh baccalaureate in certain schools. Can you tell me whether the money—I think it was about £5 million that was going to the consortia in-year—will you will offer them suggestions that that is used for improving baccalaureate teaching?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The money that is available is going via consortia to schools. Individual schools are best placed to understand the professional learning needs of their staff. And if that school understands that they have particular professional learning needs for the Welsh baccalaureate, then I would expect the money to be spent on that. Where a school is doing the Welsh baccalaureate particularly well, then the school might identify other areas where they look to seek improvement. Therefore, it is for the individual school to assess the professional learning needs of their staff. We can't second-guess that, and therefore it has to be right that school leaders are able to plan the professional learning of their staff accordingly.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I completely accept that and, as I say, it's not for all schools, but bearing in mind we're facing evidence of polarisation of delivery, I'm just wondering whether there wasn't a letter suggesting that they may want to focus on this in the schools that aren't delivering this well at the moment.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, again, that's a conversation to be had between challenge advisors in our regional consortia who are aware of the strengths and weaknesses in individual schools, in conjunction with the leadership of those schools, to discuss how that professional learning money is best spent. There isn't a school that is fantastic at everything, nor is there a school that is not good at anything, if you know what I mean. There are strengths and weaknesses in all schools. It is for the regional consortia, via challenge advisers, and the headteacher, to have that conversation about what the professional learning needs are for that particular school, to ensure that all their teachers, across the length and breadth of the curriculum, are in a position to deliver good-quality lessons. But we can't second-guess that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just make a further comment? I'll be this afternoon meeting with the regional consortia, Estyn, the universities, and the rest of what we call 'the middle tier' to discuss with them the configuration of a national curriculum for professional learning, premised on the priorities that are emerging from our current work with pioneer schools. And the shifts in pedagogy that you all know is found behind some of these issues, with the delivery of the Welsh bac, those shifts in pedagogy are right at the core of the national approach to professional learning—so, things like project-based learning, the kinds of things you talked about today, moving away from a spoon-feeding model, not just for the Welsh bac but actually right across the curriculum. The new curriculum requires us to move in these new directions. So, it's absolutely true to say that each individual school is different, each individual practitioner is different, but we must give the regions and the HEIs, as it were, a menu of things, and guidance around where there are clearly weaknesses in schools. Those weaknesses need to be addressed.",
"speaker": "Kevin Palmer"
},
{
"content": "I accept that we're going forward towards Donaldson, and I'm sure that you will be getting questions on that at some time in the future. I'm more concerned about this bac that's been around for 10 years, and there's still, as far as we can tell from the evidence that we've had, poor delivery in some schools, where there's the prospect of obligation on the horizon. That was the thing that was worrying me. Anyway, thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the issue of the difference between entitlement and obligation is a very important one and is a concern to students. You were saying it's an entitlement, not an obligation, but we have had very clear evidence from colleges that some of them are making young people do it, and schools are making young people do it. So, what do you say to those schools that are insisting on their pupils doing the Welsh bac at post 16?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "As I said, I hope that it becomes the norm that at post-16 level students take the Welsh baccalaureate, because I think it is of huge value. There may be circumstances that mean that the well-being of that student could be compromised by making them do this qualification. There could be a whole host of reasons why it is not suitable for a child to take this qualification, and therefore there has to be some flexibility in the system, and we have to trust in the professional leadership of our colleges and our headteachers to make that decision in the round, with the pupil and their parents, about what's in the best interests of those pupils. But I do think a situation where, perhaps, an entire cohort of students are suddenly deemed it's unsuitable for, I find that very hard to believe, but there could well be circumstances, for a whole host of reasons, where that particular qualification—. And we would not want to jeopardise the well-being of a student by forcing them to do a qualification that wasn't in their best interests, and we need to have the flexibility in the system to allow school leaders to make that decision, but they should also then be accountable for that decision.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But do you recognise there's maybe a case for strengthening guidance, then, on this? Because, we've had teachers tell us that they have insisted on pupils doing this, and then the parents have rung Welsh Government, and they felt undermined, then. So, do you think there's a case for strengthening the guidance or clarifying what the position is to schools and colleges?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Very happy to do that. As I said, from time to time, parents do indeed contact Welsh Government, and in that contact there is a whole variety of reasons why that parent feels the Welsh baccalaureate is not in the best interests of those children. Sometimes, that can go from the extreme of, 'I want my child to do five A-levels and I think that's in their best interest to get into Oxford and Cambridge'—I would argue that that is a myth, around the need to do that many A-levels—through to, 'Actually, my child has a range of learning needs, and actually this qualification isn't suited to them. Making them go out and do voluntary work in an organisation with people that don't understand their needs and they are unfamiliar with could jeopardise my child's ability and my child's well-being.' So, there's a whole range of reasons why sometimes people have concerns about the Welsh baccalaureate. Some of those are very legitimate concerns. Sometimes, they're based on information that, perhaps, isn't correct, or the myths around, 'I need to do five A-levels if I want to go to Cambridge'. Schools, then, have some flexibility. I'm aware of a case last year where a parent felt very concerned that the students were also having to study for entrance exams into Cambridge. A conversation was had with the school. They were able to allow the student extra time to study for that qualification and pick up their Welsh bac work later on in the academic year. So, they were able to be flexible in the delivery of that qualification. I'm very pleased to say that we've had correspondence from said parent to say that his son went on to do exceptionally well in his A-levels and his Welsh baccalaureate and gained his place at Cambridge University, and that's about having the flexibility, even at a school level, to be able to respond to the needs of individual students.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Just one final question from me on this, then. As you know, mental health and the emotional health of our children and young people is a very core issue for this committee, and Estyn have said that studying the skills challenge certificate alongside three or four A-levels is a significant factor in causing stress for some young people. How do you respond to that?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I would be the first to acknowledge that studying A-levels can be a very stressful time. That's because students, rightly, regard those qualifications as high stakes and as having a profound effect on the opportunities for the rest of their lives. So, the mere fact of studying A-levels can be a really stressful time for students because they understand how important they are, and students want to do well and they want to be able to move on to the next stage, either of work or of university. We also know—and Estyn reflects this—that students are also often trying to combine that with part-time jobs. These students are of an age when they want to be out and about and earning some of their own money and being a bit more independent. So, that adds added pressure to them. So, undoubtedly, this is a stressful time in young people's lives and we need to ensure that there is support in school to support young people through this time to make sure that students are making the right choices in terms of their A-levels and the qualifications that they're doing so they're not having to do more because they're under the impression that, by doing more, that's going to make them more likely to succeed. What we know, actually, is it's about the quality of what you do rather than the entirety of what you do that's important to universities, and we need to make sure that students are getting really good information, advice and guidance and support at what is a challenging time in their lives, because, of course, it comes on top of working really hard for your GCSEs and then you have, the following year, AS-level examinations and A-level examinations after that. So, these are stressful times in children's lives and they realise the importance of these as high-stakes qualifications.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. The next questions are from Janet Finch-Saunders.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "This is about the wider impact of studying the Welsh bac on other curriculum subjects and education provision, and we've had representations in that it is causing some concerns. So, do you have any concerns about the effect that the Welsh bac may be having on wider education provisions, such as the narrowing of the curriculum at key stage 4?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "No. Obviously, schools are responsible for planning their local curriculum offer, and that needs to meet the needs of their learners, and it also needs to meet the needs of the Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2009. So, there should be a wide variety of choices available. I believe that the skills challenge certificate actually does ensure that there is a broad curriculum and that children are exposed to different learning opportunities. And so, rather than narrowing it, I believe the Welsh bac helps us to make sure that there is an expansive curriculum, and that lots of different issues are explored in the skills challenge certificate that ensure not just academic skills are developed, but, actually, knowledge and skills of a wider range of subjects about you and your place in the world is available via this qualification.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thanks. And then, to what extent do you think that the Welsh bac should be give priority over other curriculum subjects?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I don't think it's—. It shouldn't be at the expense of other subjects. It should be part of that wide range of opportunities that are afforded to students, and I don't think it's more important or less important than other aspects of what we already ask schools to deliver.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "What about where we've taken representations that there's a lack of capacity in terms of all the extra pressures of studying the Welsh bac along with other qualifications? I went to a school in Bangor, and, again, as has been said here, it's very polarised, the evidence that we're taking—either some have found it very easy or some, including teachers, have found it extremely difficult to fit everything in, and they do believe that there is a lack of capacity there.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "And the onerous nature and the consequences of workload for teachers is acknowledged by the Qualifications Wales work and review into the qualification, and that is one of the things that we're looking to address so that the assessment arrangements and workload implications for teachers are not too onerous. And, if there is any element of duplication—students being asked to do things over and over—then that needs to be addressed as well, and that's why there is this review by the design group.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thanks. And then, how do you respond to concerns that learners are avoiding studying the Welsh bac— where they can, that is—by attending institutions in England or institutions that do not offer Welsh-medium provision?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's interesting, isn't it, about where children choose to study and whether they are motivated by the avoidance of the Welsh bac? People make decisions about where to study for a whole host of reasons, and it's difficult sometimes to quantify what those are. So, for instance, we often hear this along the border that, because—. The geography is not easy, but it can be relatively easy to go across into the English system and therefore you don't have to do this. Now, the reasons for that could be very variable. It could be about the nature of the offer. We know that, in some of our rural schools, the secondary sixth forms aren't able to offer a wide variety of A-levels, and perhaps, by going to a different institution, a larger institution across the way, then you can get that combination of the A-levels you want to do, which simply isn't possible if you do it in your home school. Or, we do have some consortia arrangements where A-levels are delivered across a wide variety of schools, which require students to travel. Some students don't want to do that; they don't want to do their A-levels in three different schools, but they'd rather go to an institution where they can do it all under one roof. And that means, sometimes, moving across the border or, in the area I live, children making the decision to go to Merthyr college, because its a lovely, beautiful new building, the facilities are absolutely fantastic and a wide variety of A-levels is available under one roof. We looked at, in particular, also, the perception of quality. So, if we take the example of King Henry VIII School in Abergavenny, a school where, in the past, there have been, I think, within the community, some concerns about the quality of that school—whether it's regarded as a good school. And, from that particular location, you can quite easily get to Hereford college—a college that has a fantastic offer, does very, very well and has a beautiful building. What we do, if we look at the tracking of the students who have been retained in King Henry VIII, as that school has been on its improvement journey and has done better and better and better, the number of students that they are retaining into their sixth form has grown. So, the perception is, 'This is a good school, I'm going to get a good-quality experience here', and more and more students are choosing to stay in that school than perhaps make the decision to travel somewhere else. We also have to recognise that, for some students, staying in the sixth form isn't what they want to do; they want a different experience, they want to go to an FE college. They want a different experience. So, we have to take into consideration that students could be motivated by a wide variety of subjects, and there's no hard-and-fast evidence that it is avoidance of the bac that is the sole driver for some of these choices.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Siân, on this.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "The evidence that we've had from one of the teaching unions—robust and clear evidence—is that this is happening, that is, that young people are leaving Wales to go over the border to schools in England in order to avoid the Welsh bac. That's exactly what was said to us. But you don't accept that evidence.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not saying that I don't accept it. I'm saying that I think there are a wide variety of reasons why students make decisions about where to study. I'm not aware of any comprehensive piece of work that has looked at those motivations, and I think there could be a whole host of reasons why children are deciding to move across the border. Perhaps the Welsh bac is an easy one to place that hook on, and that's easier to acknowledge, isn't it, than saying that perhaps students are making that choice for other reasons.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. The next questions, then, are on teacher learning from Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Actually, I've asked the question that I wanted to ask.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, you don't want to—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "By all means you ask the others I had.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. You have referred to training already. The committee's got two concerns, really. One is about preparedness in ITE to teach the Welsh bac, so I don't know if you want to expand on how teachers are being skilled up at that level to deliver the Welsh bac effectively.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "In the accreditation process, which has not been without its pain, and some significant decisions made in that regard, the criteria for the ITE programmes note that, and I'm going to quote it: 'Teachers should be able to help children and young people to make links across their learning, bringing together different aspects to examine, for example, important topics such as citizenship, enterprise, financial capability and sustainability.' So, the prime driver for our ITE reforms, obviously, is the preparedness for 'Successful Futures', but in preparing our teachers to be in a position to successfully deliver that, those are also the pedagogical principles and that shift in pedagogy that we see aligned to the Welsh baccalaureate. So, it is actually a part of the accreditation process that the curriculum that the new ITE providers will have to deliver—ensuring that teachers have those skills and have that confidence to be able to deliver their teaching in a way that, as I said, ensures that we successfully deliver on Donaldson, but also on the same pedagogical principles that are needed for the successful delivery of the Welsh bac.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "In the pre-Donaldson period, then, bearing in mind what you've just said, do you expect to see a surge in improvement on how the baccalaureate is taken up by those schools that are currently less keen on it?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I hope that we will see increased numbers of students taking the qualification and an increase in the quality of that experience for young people. As we discussed earlier, we're not just waiting for the new graduates to come out of our ITE providers. There's a whole cohort of the workforce already out there. They should be given an equal opportunity to ensure that they have the skills to deliver on our curriculum reforms and our reform qualifications, and every time the previous Government has brought in a reformed qualification there have been specific resources made available to ensure that teachers are in a position to do that. So, when we changed to maths numeracy, a new qualification that was to be examined, there was specific resource made available for the professional learning for teachers to make sure that they were in a position to do that, and that's exactly the same as the offer that we have available for teachers who are delivering the Welsh bac.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. And you've already said about continuing professional development, that this is going to be a core part of the CPD. Is there anything that you want to add on that? Is it going to be fully integrated into the professional learning offer?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, absolutely. There is already—I don't want to make the impression that there's not already support available out there. There is already support out there via regional consortia for professional learning with regard to the Welsh baccalaureate. There is existing support available from the WJEC with regard to Welsh baccalaureate, and it will continue, as we drive forward our national approach to professional learning. And, increasingly, there are interesting ways in which we're supporting students, so I don't know if Members are aware of the new MOOC. The University of Bath, one of the Russell Group universities, delivered a MOOC for the extended project qualification in England.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "What's a MOOC? [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "So, it is an online—a massive open online course. So, it's a course that is delivered free of charge, and it's delivered by information technology. So, the University of Bath have done this MOOC to support students with the EPQ. They have just launched, in conjunction with Aberystwyth University, a bilingual MOOC for the individual project for Welsh bac. It's our understanding it is the first ever Welsh-medium MOOC, we think; we're not aware of any others. And this resource is there for students to give them advice on how they do choose the thesis for their individual project: how do you go about, then, undertaking good independent research; how do you reference properly, to ensure that you do that correctly? And we've seen over 1,000 students already sign up for the MOOC. So, increasingly, there are lots and lots of new resources out there for both teachers and students to make the most of. And the fact that Bath and Aberystwyth have worked together on this, I believe, shows their commitment and a demonstration of their support for this qualification, otherwise why would the University of Bath bother, if they weren't interested in it?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Just one final question from me. I've written to you about a young constituent who moved institutions and resat the Welsh bac, but wasn't able, because of the WJEC policy, to obtain a higher grade in it, because they've got a policy that the grade is capped when you resit it. Given what the committee's been told about the variability in the way this is taught in institutions in Wales, do you think it's fair that young people shouldn't be able to go and resit it somewhere else and get a better grade?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, given that Welsh Ministers are independent of the qualification system, I would want to be careful about what I said, because it is for the WJEC and Qualifications Wales to regulate this. But, clearly, we would want to reflect on making sure that students have an opportunity, and a fair opportunity. Andrew, I don't know if you've got any observations that you'd like to make.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "No, not really. I think it's an individual case, this one—",
"speaker": "Andrew Clark"
},
{
"content": "But it could apply to lots of young people, couldn't it? I mean, that's the point here. I know it's a constituent's case and I don't normally raise those in the Chair, but I think, given what we've learned about variability, it is a valid issue for young people in Wales, really.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, whether it's particularly related to the Welsh baccalaureate, though, I'm not so certain. And I think that would be a better question to ask the WJEC, perhaps, and Qualifications Wales, because it's a deliberate act that that activity is at arm's length from Welsh Ministers.",
"speaker": "Andrew Clark"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Any other questions from Members? No. Okay, well, can I thank the Cabinet Secretary and her officials for attending? We've had a very useful discussion this morning, which will inform our report on this. As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy, but thank you again for your attendance.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Llywydd to the First Minister on the role of the Assembly in the process of legislating for Brexit. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education and the Minister for Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning with additional information following the meeting on 8 November. Are Members happy to note those?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just make a comment on the first of those letters, the one from the Llywydd? I recommend to Assembly Members that they read that again if they can, because, actually, it's an important issue that is easily lost in the other things that we talk about with Brexit, and that is the role of this Assembly in scrutinising secondary legislation falling out of Brexit.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I ask a question? Was that a reflection of all the Chairs?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. It came to the panel of Chairs—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "And it was obviously unanimous—",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "—and we agreed that we wanted that letter sent.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Are Members happy to note those? Thank you. Item 4 is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Okay.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_19 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"27"
]
],
"topic": "The political background and the aim of the group"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"28",
"33"
]
],
"topic": "Possible solutions to the post-Brexit Wales universities under the \"no deal\" scenario"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"34",
"56"
]
],
"topic": "The admission problems of Wales universities and corresponding solutions"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"57",
"73"
]
],
"topic": "Possible official solutions to the problem with more funding, a new immigration policy and the help of the minister"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"74",
"81"
]
],
"topic": "he Diamond Review proposal for guaranteeing a more sustainable funding for HE and other funding organizations for the development of FE"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"82",
"102"
]
],
"topic": "Official commitments to help the Wales universities to get through the transition period"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"103",
"120"
]
],
"topic": "A restatement of their temporary hypothesis of a \"no deal\" scenario and some further actions to help the Wales education institutions get through the dilemma"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting was about the fiscal and social influence of Brexit, especially focusing on the Wales education system. The group was worrying that Brexit would cut down the support from the EU to the UK, thus putting the Wales Universities in great dilemma. Besides, the fact was that the less fiscal support from the EU, the less foreign students would apply for the Wales universities. The members talked about several possible solutions, for instance, adjusting the syllabus to better meet both the students' and the lecturers' needs and providing them with better career prospects. What also mattered was the immigration policy which would be alluring to the foreign students if being reconsidered carefully.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The group was focusing on the potential influence to the Wales education system due to the Brexit. The members mentioned many institutions like the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales and showed that these institutions had taken much action to deal with the problems. Some of the institutions funded higher education in Wales, and others might help those universities find a better way to transit. What the group aimed at was cooperating with the institutions and help the situation become better.",
"query": "Summarize the political background and the aim of the group.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"27"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When discussing the dilemma that the Wales universities were faced with at the moment, Kirsty Williams pointed out that many factors would affect the fiscal situation of the universities, including whether it would be a \"no deal\" scenario or a \"deal\" one. Even though most worries were towards the \"no deal\" scenario, Huw Morris was confident that the higher education Brexit working group had been meeting since September 2016 and recently officials had been visiting individual institutions to ensure that they were fully prepared for the potential fund problems.",
"query": "What did Huw Morris think of the \"no deal\" scenario when talking about the political background and the aim of the group?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"3",
"10"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Eluned Morgan had been actively engaging with the FE sector and he found that those colleges are much localized, with only 71 EU apprenticeships and staff. The group was working hard to ensure that these 71 people would safely go through such a chaotic period. What's also important was that as for FE, the relationship between the apprenticeships and the working community mattered much, which means they might have to improve the relationship between these 71 EU people and the local community.",
"query": "What did Eluned Morgan think of further education when talking about the political background and the aim of the group?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"22"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hefin David pointed out that Wales was the only country in the UK that witnessed a significant drop in applications from EU students. The group should have noticed that the available funding for those EU students had changed, and that was one of the reasons why fewer of them applied for Wales universities this year. But fortunately, according to Kirsty Williams, close cooperation with HEFCW and other institutions were always on the agenda to make sure that Wales universities were fully prepared.",
"query": "What did the group talk about the admission problems of Wales universities and corresponding solutions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"34",
"56"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hefin David thought that the Wales government should be to blame for the fewest EU students applying for Wales universities this year, however, Kirsty Williams considered it was too early to jump to the conclusion. Not until November would they conduct the first census to get an exact number of the students enrolled. In addition, Kirsty Williams pointed out the fact that international students outside the EU make up a bigger proportion of students not from the UK who came to Wales institutions. There was no need to be so anxious about the number of the present applications.",
"query": "Why did Kirsty Williams disagree with Hefin David when talking about the admission problems of Wales universities and corresponding solutions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"35",
"43"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams thought Swansea University was quite a good example for them to learn from. During such a dilemma, Swansea University found a solution that provided an attractive curriculum and offered courses that people really wanted to take. They delivered their curriculum in a fashion way, guaranteed good teaching, and had an appealing infrastructure, which all made good use to attract potential applicants. That was exactly what other institutions needed to do at present.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams think about Swansea University when discussing the admission problems of Wales universities and corresponding solutions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"44",
"50"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The group laid their stress on mainly three aspects in terms of dealing with the problem at an official level, which respectively were adding more funding to the universities, implementing a new immigration policy, and asking for the minister's help. With adequate funding, the institutions would be more likely to satisfy the research needs from the students. Similarly, a more robust immigration policy might make it more appealing for those who would like to set down in Wales. Last but not least, making the minister be aware of the serious problem would also be important that the problem would then be brought to national meetings and discussed by more officials.",
"query": "What did the group talk about the possible official solution to the problem with more funding, a new immigration policy and the help of the minister?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"57",
"73"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When discussing the funding to support Wales universities to go through the financial problems, Julie Morgan mentioned that they have funded Wales universities with 6.4 million dollars in 2017-18. Kirsty Williams added that they had actually made an additional resource of £5 million available to mitigate the freeze in tuition fees, and another £5 million had been made available to HEFCW to kick-start the work on postgraduate support. With the adequate funding, Kirsty Williams believed that there would be little need to worry about the fiscal problems of Wales universities.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams think of the additional funding to HEFCW when discussing the funding to support Wales universities to go through the financial problems?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"57",
"62"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty Williams, he was not quite in favor of a new immigration policy at first, for when post-study work visas were first issued in the south-east of England, the outcome was not so satisfying. However, his attitude had changed. As the locals usually did not take foreign students as immigrants, the government should treat the foreign students and those who came from EU as the same, which is to say, a new immigration system should be set to ensure that EU students and all the other foreign ones would receive the same treatment when seeking a job in Wales.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams elaborate on the immigration policy when discussing the possible official solution to the problem?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"69",
"71"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The group mentioned that Wales government had promised a multi-annual commitment that it would help the Wales universities to get through the transition period and operate well with enough funding. However, some of the members thought that they could not always rely on the government and should have a budget plan for themselves. For fear that they might only receive the governmental funding for those apprentices, the group agreed to keep the apprenticeship firmly, even if some areas like England had abandoned it.",
"query": "Summarize the official commitments to help the Wales universities to get through the transition period.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"82",
"102"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "While talking about the official commitments to help the Wales universities to get through the transition period, Suzy Davies compared the two kinds of multi-annual commitments that one was related to revenue and the other to capital. She did not think that either of them would work, however, according to Eluned Morgan, the official commitment related to capital would matter more under such a transition period. Even if most people would focus on the revenue, they should pay attention to the capital for that it is exactly the capital that ensured the institutions to operate well under the dilemma.",
"query": "Why did Eluned Morgan disagree with Suzy Davies when talking about the official commitments to help the Wales universities to get through the transition period?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"82",
"93"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "When discussing the official commitments, Eluned Morgan had great confidence in the government that they would provide firm support for the Wales universities. But as for Llyr Gruffydd, he did not think that the institutions would be able to rely on the official funding much, and more importantly, if they would like to enter into the agreements at present, they would interrupt their current work, which would also put themselves in great risk.",
"query": "Why did Llyr Gruffydd disagree with Eluned Morgan when discussing the official commitments to help the Wales universities to get through the transition period?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"94",
"102"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Janet Finch-Saunders. I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome Suzy Davies to the committee, and to thank Mark Reckless and Darren Millar, who have left us, for their service and hard work as members of the committee. Can I ask whether there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. We will move on then to our evidence session on our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams, Cabinet Secretary for Education, and Eluned Morgan AM, Minister for Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning. Can I just ask you to introduce your officials for the record, please?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Bore da, Lynne, and thank you for the invitation to join you. Eluned and I are joined this morning by Huw Morris, who's the group director at SHELL—skills, higher education and lifelong learning—and Marie Knox, who is deputy director, overseeing European transition.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you very much, and thank you for coming. We'll go straight into questions, then, and the first questions are from Suzy Davies.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I'd like to ask you both, if that's okay, a little bit about preparedness. But if I could start with higher education, I understand that—I don't know, it must be about 18 months ago now—Ken Skates told another committee in this place that there had been nine sector analyses done. Presumably, one of those was HE, because of the—well, Welsh Government had a presence, and still does, in Brussels, related to higher education. Apparently, those have now been superseded by work that's been done by Cardiff University. I don't know if you've got any comments on that research, or whether it's been brought to your attention yet.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, Suzy, following the vote, I was very keen that we work very closely with colleagues in higher education and further education, to get an understanding from on the ground about the potential impact. So, in terms of preparedness, we started that group in the September, and that work from that group, which includes both HE and FE, has been instrumental in helping the Government form its views, which were articulated in the Government's White Paper, 'Securing Wales' Future'. There has been ongoing work being done—as the debate in London and Europe becomes a little bit more clear, then it becomes a little less clear, and then a little bit more clear, but, bearing in mind the difficulties of working in an ever-changing field, we have been refining those approaches. Each institution has been looking at their own institution, because, as you can imagine, although we have an overview of the sector, the challenges are very different for individual institutions—so their exposure, for instance, to the number of European Union students that they have at their college, or the work that they might be doing with Horizon 2020, or their success—and there has been considerable success in the HE field in securing structural funds for various projects—the exposure and the potential impact of leaving the EU, in a 'no deal' or in a 'deal' scenario, is very, very different. But I don't know if, Huw, you want to talk any further.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Maybe just to use the 'no deal' scenario is probably the easiest, isn't it?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The 'no deal'?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, yes, because that's the worst-case scenario, so let's look at that one.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "As the Cabinet Secretary mentioned, the higher education Brexit working group's been meeting since September 2016 and has been looking at that in general. More recently, when the prospect of no deal became talked about, officials have been visiting individual institutions to talk to them about their preparedness for that. As you'll be aware, the funding for much of the activity is secured, we believe, even under a 'no deal' scenario, until December 2020; that's a letter we had from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. I think the research you're referring to may be research that Cardiff University has been doing with the Bevan Foundation and others. I know there's a report due to be launched later today. We have been doing our own research and looking at the impact on HE, FE and apprenticeship providers.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Well, that's really helpful because my understanding was that this Cardiff University research had superseded all those nine sector analyses.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "That may be true for the economy brief. Certainly, there are published papers by Max Munday and a team at Cardiff University on the impact of Brexit on the Welsh economy, but for HE and FE and apprenticeship provision, it's as the Cabinet Secretary outlined.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "So, are there any formal risk assessments that are available for us to scrutinise, for example? For HE and FE for that matter.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales have been doing some specific work; I can't comment on how wide they would want that to be shared. We have been doing some broad analysis, as I said, for the sector, looking at what we can do to mitigate the risk, bearing in mind that each institution is an autonomous institution, a principle that they guard really jealously, and rightly so. So, we have been, as Huw said, because the prospect of a 'no deal' has become, perhaps, more to the forefront, officers have been visiting each institution to try and make sure and to satisfy us, as people who fund part of their activity, that they have their own plans in place to deal with these scenarios. We continue to work alongside them to push the issues that we can help them with. So, for instance, we continue to work with officials in Westminster around Erasmus+ provision in a 'no deal' scenario, what a UK stand-alone project would look like, the impacts of a 'no deal' on Horizon 2020. So, we look at the broader picture and we are encouraging continually individual institutions to make sure that they themselves are looking at their specific needs within that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, if there is something that's shareable, I'm sure we'd be very pleased to see it—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Anything that we've got—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "—particularly with FE, actually, because, of course, we haven't got a HEFCW for FE; you're doing that regulation yourself. I'd expect to see that type of work evidenced somewhere from within Welsh Government, and we would be able to see that then.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, if I could just make some points on FE. We've been actively engaging with the FE sector. We've spoken to every one of the colleges about how they see things developing. I think it's quite a different response than what is going to be happening in HE.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, because the student thing isn't such an issue, is it?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "You've got to remember that the FE colleges are much more anchored within their communities, they're much more localised, and so, for example, the number of EU students in these colleges is significantly lower. The number of staff in these colleges—I think they've analysed that there are only about 71 people. So, we're keeping in touch with them and we're letting them know what we are being told in terms of the Home Office settled status and what we can do to protect those 71. But that's a much bigger issue, I think, for higher education.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "What are they telling you about European social fund funding, though, because, as you say, they're locally anchored—the impact on FE of ESF funding is probably more significant than the issues we're talking about with higher education. How are you finding this out? Is this through one-to-one conversations?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We are engaging with them all, and, obviously, we're engaging with ColegauCymru, who've done their own analysis, and what we found, in particular, is that the real problems are probably in relation to ESF funding and apprenticeships. But what you've got to remember is that that link between apprenticeships and the local work community is absolutely crucial. So, if—",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that's why I asked.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "—the economy nosedives, or if there's an issue that we see—just the dislocation of companies in those areas as a result of Brexit—then that will inevitably have an impact on the number of apprenticeships that will be on offer. So, it's those kinds of things, but at the moment I think it's worth pointing out that about £15 million a year goes into the FE sector just in relation to apprenticeships.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just come back finally on that, before handing over? In both your areas of responsibility, there's going to be an impact on Welsh Government in how it responds to that, as well. Can you tell me a little bit about the European transition team, which I think is about building resilience within the Welsh Government to deal with the impacts of Brexit? Is that a formal arrangement you have with officials? I don't really know much about this team, but it seems to meet fortnightly to get Welsh Government ready for Brexit, so could you just give us some clues on this?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, in terms of the European transition team, that's the central co-ordinating group that pulls together all the leads in each department who are pulling together the work on European transition. So, I attend that group in relation to higher education and further education, and, obviously, other representatives in terms of agriculture, transport, the economy, et cetera.",
"speaker": "Marie Knox"
},
{
"content": "It's great that you're on that group, but what does it actually do? That's the bit I wasn't sure about.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I guess it provides the governance structure for the Welsh Government as a whole in relation to European transition. So, individual departments do their own work, and the European transition team provides the governance structure, and, also, they lead on the discussions with the Department for Exiting the European Union, No. 10, the Joint Ministerial Committee—those kinds of ministerial arrangements.",
"speaker": "Marie Knox"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I've had enough time, I think.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Llyr.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'll ask my questions in Welsh, if I may. This discussion between HEFCW and higher education, these challenges in terms of how ready they are for the changes to come, and the work that the Government is doing with FE, I suspect, is happening at an organisational level. So, I just want to hear a little about where the student voice comes into that discussion and where the engagement happens in terms of the students.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "So, we have a close working relationship with the National Union of Students. I meet with them regularly, and officials are in constant touch with the student voice. They have been very clear, and I think there is a huge amount of consensus between the Welsh Government, what the universities are asking for and what the students are asking for. You'll have seen, only earlier this week, the very powerful campaign by NUS Wales about the importance of Erasmus+ arrangements. There is a huge amount to be gained for Welsh students and young people participating in the Erasmus programme. Many of us, I know, have had the opportunity to study abroad as part of our own studies, and there's a lot to be gained from it. We've been very clear from the outset, as have the sector and the student voice, about the importance of participation in that scheme. NUS are also very concerned that there should be no negative impact on the quality of faculty. Our HE institutions, to a greater extent than FE, have faculty staff from the EU—it runs at about 11 per cent. That adds great diversity and strength to the quality of teaching within our institutions. Clearly, that is a concern for students. They want to have the best teachers, they want access to the best learning opportunities, and we've been very clear about the importance of providing security and stability for those staff, making sure we send very clear messages that they're very welcome and we value their contribution. NUS, again, also value the diversity in the student population. Again, as far as we've been able to, we've been able to give messages about the security of funding for European students for the next academic year. I wish I could go further, but that's out of my hands. We're working to the limits of what I feel comfortable in being able to guarantee without further guarantees from Westminster. So, we've been working closely with the student voice, and I think, Llyr, what's very clear is there is a consensus about what is important across the Government, the institutions and student voice. So, that is making sure we send very clear messages about Wales's institutions being open for business and that we welcome both EU and international students, that we value the contribution of faculty, and that we want to be able to continue in Horizon 2020. That's especially important if we're looking at attracting postgraduate work and postgraduate students into our system, as well as Erasmus+. The issue of post-study work visas, again, is very important. As I said, there's a consensus, I think, between the Government, the institutions and the students about what we need the UK Government to achieve for us.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Before we move on to student recruitment, it's increasingly the view of many experts that we're heading for a 'no deal' Brexit. Can I ask both of you what specific plans you've put in place in the event of such a 'no deal' Brexit happening and us crashing out next spring?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think it's really difficult for us to prepare for a 'no deal' Brexit, but obviously we need to think through very carefully what that might look like, and I think that scenario planning is starting to happen. I think it's very different, again, for FE compared to HE. So, in relation to FE, what we do have is funding—ESF funding—which the UK Government has said that they will underwrite until 2020. So, in March next year, if there is no deal, the immediate impact on FE is unlikely to hit in the way that we may have feared. The problem then becomes: what exactly is the deal with the EU in future, because we will have some kind of relationship, and what that impact will be on the broader economy and our ability to work with companies locally, and industries, to provide that link between training needs? So, the colleges, basically, are providing the training for lots of the apprenticeships, and so if the number of companies reduces, then that is likely to have an impact. So, there are specific sectors that we are more concerned about than others. Farming is obviously one that we are concerned about, because that could have a difference in terms of day one of no deal. If your markets are not there, that could be quite an immediate impact. Health and social care—obviously, we are concerned that there are a number of people who work in that sector who are EU citizens. What is the impact? Are they going to feel unwelcome? Are they likely, then, to return home? Where will that skills gap, therefore, be? So, that's a problem for us. Construction is already an issue for us in terms of skills shortages. So, one of the things we're doing is we've developed these regional skills partnerships where we ask local employers, 'What is it that you need in terms of skills development?' and we are now asking further education colleges to respond to that need. So, rather than them just getting people through the college system, who are easy to get in because they're doing courses that they're excited about, let's try and encourage them to do courses where we know there are skills shortages. So, that is a new structure that we've developed that is already having an impact; there's a £10 million project there. So, we're already putting things in place for those situations. In manufacturing, obviously, if there's no deal, the rules of origin, that could have an immediate impact. Just-in-time—we could have real problems in terms of dislocation there; and hospitality and tourism. So, those are the sectors we have most concerns about, and all of them have very strong links to the FE sector.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "From the HE perspective, from a point of principle, we just have to keep working towards some kind of deal. Although the prospect of no deal, maybe, has risen up the agenda, we have got to be consistent in our messages to the Westminster Government: we need a deal. Wales cannot afford to crash out of the EU without a deal. If that worst-case scenario was to happen, because of the underwrite guarantee, actually, for European regional development fund and European social fund programmes in the HE sector, it would be business as usual. And because of the current underwrite guarantee, the forthcoming bids for Erasmus and Horizon 2020 would be covered, but they would be the last applications that could be made. You'll be aware that there are some proposals for an extension to that guarantee, but from my understanding and our understanding of it, that would only give us third-country status for Horizon 2020 and Erasmus. What that does mean is that we would have limited access to the Horizon 2020 programme, and if you look at the activity that is currently being undertaken by the Welsh HE sector under that programme, that would mean that we'd probably lose about 50 per cent of that work, because that's the split between the bits we would still be able to access and what we are currently accessing. As I've already said, we have made a guarantee for EU student support for the next academic year, but, without clarity from the Treasury, I don't think it would be prudent of me to commit Welsh Government to anything further than that. So, we continue to push the message that a 'no deal' would be catastrophic. What can we do? You'll be aware that we have been working with Universities Wales to access resources under the European transition fund, under the Global Wales programme, to look to boost international marketing of the HE sector and to talk about the strengths that we have in the sector. And we continue to look at other opportunities within the EU transition pot of money to assist the universities and the FE sector in that regard. We also continue to look to respond to the Reid review proposals, about how we can beef up our own research and continue to engage with UK Research and Innovation to make sure that, with any research money that comes out of that negotiation, Wales is in a competitive position to be able to bid successfully for that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We're going to move on, then, to talk about student recruitment. I'm going to, because we've got a lot of questions, appeal for brief questions and answers that are as concise as possible, please. Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "How does the Welsh Government account for the fact that EU student applications in Wales this year—that Wales is the only country in the UK to have seen a significant drop?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, well, I think the first thing to remember is that we will not get a full picture of student recruitment until, first of all, November and then the true picture, because some institutions, as you would know, have two admissions dates—we won't get the full picture until the spring. I think it was inevitable, given the change in Government policy with regard to student support, which had previously allowed European students to benefit from a tuition fee grant, and given the fact that that option is no longer available to them, that that has had an impact on EU recruitment, and there's no point trying to hide from that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, together with leaving the EU, that's a double-whammy effect that's hitting Wales harder than the rest of the UK.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "It just puts us in the same position as EU students applying to England, but it was inevitable. This was looked at by Diamond. It was anticipated that this could be a consequence of the change in policy, and I think we see that reflected in the initial figure, although, as I said, we won't get the true picture until the first census in November, and then, ultimately, the final picture in the spring.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "How concerned are you by that?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Clearly, we want our universities to be able to attract students from both the EU and from around the world. The fact that the tuition fee grant arrangements may have had an impact on European Union students at this stage does not preclude the fact that Wales, up until now, has been successful in recruiting international students. So, the change in the fee regime should not be a barrier to the recruitment of international students, because, actually, international students outside of the EU make up a bigger proportion of students not from the UK who come to our institutions.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "That's a fair point, but it's unfortunate timing, though, isn't it?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, from a public policy point of view and moving towards a sustainable way of funding our HE sector, then both my priority and, I would say, the priority of the institutions was to see the implementation of Diamond, which is what we have done.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, that's fine. What about the fact that we've got a relatively imbalanced higher education profile compared to other countries of the UK with regard to high, medium and low-tariff universities? We've got one high-tariff university, and they're the ones that tend to show the growth in recruitment of EU students. Are you concerned about that balance of profile in the HE sector?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "As I said in answer to your question earlier, there is a difference reflected in the exposure of institutions to EU and international students. I would argue that it's not necessarily the case that institutions that are not high-tariff are not able to do very well in this sector. If you look, for instance, at Swansea University—if you look at the work Swansea University has done, that shows you what is possible.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "What is Swansea's success, then? What can we learn from Swansea?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "What I think is important—and this is not about any one institution—what I think is really important is that we look to—. And I can't force institutions to do this. It's a combination, I believe, for all universities, of getting their offer right—so, having a curriculum at their institution that is attractive and offers courses that people want to study. It's about that curriculum being delivered in an excellent fashion, so high quality ratings for teaching, as well as having an infrastructure that is attractive to students. So, it's all about getting the offer right and providing what students, both domestically and internationally, want.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But the evidence would therefore suggest that that model of success that you've just outlined is happening in Swansea but it isn't happening in other institutions, and they're seeing a drop.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said, I think what we can see from Cardiff, Swansea and others is that it is possible to do very well in the sector.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, Cardiff, Swansea and Bangor—but the others, not.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "As I said, what we can see is that, if you get the offer right, I think we have something very special that the HE sector can market itself on.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Llyr, you've got a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just coming back to the drop in EU students, you mentioned that one of the reasons probably is the change in the funding that's available to students coming here. So, does that suggest that, under the current regime, Wales was punching above its weight in terms of attracting students and we've lost that advantage? I know we're gaining in other ways in introducing the new system, but really we're not much different to England in terms of fees now, so why would they come to Wales as opposed to going anywhere else?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I think you're right; there was an added incentive, potentially, to come to a Welsh institution because of the availability of the tuition fee grant. That advantage is no longer there, which is why we need to work alongside the sector, as we're doing with the Global Wales programme, to increase their ability to market HE in the round across the world. I think we've got a strong offer that we can speak to people about. I'm very proud of what our institutions can deliver for people. It's a fantastic, warm environment to come and study in, at great institutions. There's something for everybody, whether you want to be in a city like Cardiff or whether you want a coastal experience in a small town like Aber. So, we've got a lot to offer and that's why it's really important that, although we have seen a change in the tuition fees, which may have an impact, we are investing with universities, for instance, in the Global Wales programme.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "In terms of the drop that we've seen in Wales, which is differential amongst institutions, will you be taking any specific action to try and prevent Brexit exacerbating that?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We are working with HEFCW and individual institutions, as I said, to test their preparedness. We can't tell them what to do in that sense, but we can, because of our governance arrangements and HEFCW's monitoring arrangements, continue to test with them. I meet regularly with vice-chancellors and separately with the chairs of the institutions and separately again with HEFCW representatives, and the sustainability of the sector and recruitment issues is always something that is on the agenda.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Julie.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "The additional £6.4 million that went to HEFCW in the 2017-18 year, which I think you say is partly because of Brexit and partly because of demographic and recruitment challenges, what do you expect to see as a result of that spending?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "That funding was allocated, as I said, to enable HEFCW to deal with any short-term implications arising out of demographic changes, because we've seen a drop in the number of 18-year-olds, and the initial implications of EU transition. It was allocated as part of HEFCW's overall grant in aid, and therefore the council was given discretion as to how it was to be apportioned to the sector. The money was brought forward a year, because, in conversations with HEFCW and the institutions, they felt that that money would be more useful earlier on. So, it was money that was brought forward into the allocation for 2017-18, as opposed to 2018-19, because they wanted to have that resource earlier rather than later. With regard to additional resources, you'll be aware that we have made an additional resource of £5 million available to mitigate the freeze in tuition fees, and £5 million has been made available to HEFCW to kick-start the work on postgraduate support until we're in a position to fully implement Diamond at the postgraduate level.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "You say that the money is used at the discretion of the universities. So, you don't have an analysis of how that was spent.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "The financial allocation, as I said, was agreed with the funding council and it was there to help universities with any cash flow issues, but if you'd like further details I can provide those as much as I'm able.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it would be interesting if we know what the money was spent on and, of course, that money is now not available for the next financial year, so there's no way of carrying on what they were doing with it, presumably.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said, it was part of the overall allocation to HEFCW. With specific regard to dealing with the impact of Brexit, you'll be aware that we have reached an agreement in principle on the funding of £3.5 million to the Global Wales initiative. This was an application that came in from Universities Wales looking at specifically targeting and beefing up international work and international recruitment work to support them at this time, and we're currently working with Universities Wales on the exact details and outcomes they would expect from that investment.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And do you have any estimate of how many students you hope to attract by that?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "That is subject to continuing negotiations with Universities Wales before we let any contracts with them. What's important is that that work is based on research that has been done by Universities Wales to look at the optimum markets that we should be targeting, specifically the United States of America and Vietnam.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And will this money be used equally between all the universities?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "We expect that all institutions—should they have a desire to participate—will be able to be assisted, as well as the overall global branding from Universities Wales and the new Study in Wales initiative.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I think we've covered the EU student fees, haven't we?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Do you want to ask question 12?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Has the Welsh Government explored the possibility of looking at different immigration rules for international and EU students who may wish to study here?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, with regard to immigration, clearly, this is something, at the moment, that is out of our hands, and I have to say, it hasn't got off to a great start when initially the post-study work visas were issued just for a number of institutions in the south-east of England, with no consultation with us and I don't believe with the Scottish Government either. So, we have campaigned, pushed, cajoled, lobbied, and I was very glad that in December last year, the Home Office did then make that scheme available to Cardiff and to Trinity Saint David. We continue to press the point that we do not believe that, first of all, international students should be included in any immigration targets. I think all the evidence suggests that the British public don't regard international students as immigrants, and therefore we do need to make sure that they are taken out of the targets and we can continue to press that message with the UK Government. At the moment, you'll be aware that Welsh Government has looked at a specific piece of work on whether there was any scope for specific immigration policy for Wales, although I must say that was mostly in the field of actually the workforce rather than students. You'll be aware that this week the Government's migration advisory committee—there are so many committees these days—have said that they don't believe that there is a case for a separate provision for EU students, as opposed to international students. But we want an immigration system that makes it as easy as possible for those students who want to benefit from education in Wales, and indeed the UK, to be able to do so.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Llyr.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "So, what are we doing from now on in then? Are we just waiting to see or are we continuing to push?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "No—gosh—Llyr, we continue to push the case at the official level, and at the moment, I'm trying to convene a quadrilateral, if it can be quadrilateral in the sense that Northern Ireland aren't up and running—but certainly with officials from Northern Ireland. We're trying to arrange another quadrilateral between myself, the HE Minister for England and the new HE Minister for Scotland. If I can speak candidly, I don't believe that there's any difference between our view, with regard to the status of international students, and the views of English Ministers within the department in England. It is convincing the Home Office of that case. So, I don't think we need to persuade Sam Gyimah about the importance of this. Jo Johnson got, I think the current Minister gets it—it's a question of whether we can persuade the Home Office of that particular case.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. The next questions are from John Griffiths.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I have some questions on the sustainability of higher and further education. Firstly, with regard to higher education, we heard that, even without Brexit, higher education is in managed deficit, whilst the funding announcements from Diamond and Reid are awaited. So, is that a concern to Welsh Government, and could Welsh Government take away that uncertainty by outlining a clear funding commitment to the Diamond and Reid reviews?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Welsh Government is fully committed, John, to implementing the Diamond review proposals. It's a commitment that was an element of the agreement between myself and the First Minister that brought me into the administration, and we have been very clear with HEFCW about our expectations and what the implementation of Diamond will mean for grant going to HEFCW. And we've shared those figures with them. With regard to Reid, we continue within Government to discuss how we can implement the recommendations of Reid, but one of the whole principles behind Diamond was to move us to a more sustainable funding settlement for the HE sector in the round, that is fair to students, encourages those with the ability to partake in higher education to do so, especially from those from a poorer background, as well as being able to provide our institutions with the resources that they need.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, you don't accept, then, that there hasn't been a clear funding commitment from Welsh Government to those reviews—the Diamond and Reid reviews?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "With regard to Diamond, I would absolutely refute that. We have been very clear and we have shown HEFCW our analysis of the figures going forward in relation to what is sometimes called within the sector the 'Diamond dividend', although the Diamond dividend is never as big as people imagine the Diamond dividend to be. But we've been absolutely clear with HEFCW and the sector on what that will mean. Now, with regard to Reid, those are ongoing discussions that form part of the normal budgetary process within the Government, but I think we have been as clear as we can be with regard to Diamond.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. The second question, really, is about HE and FE and it's about European funding, which, of course, has been and is on a multi-year basis, which gives, I think, a lot of security and comfort to the sectors, knowing what the budgets will be over a period of time. So, moving from that to a yearly budgeting situation would be worrying. So, would you commit to introducing multi-year funding settlements for HE, and indeed for FE, moving forward beyond Brexit?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Shall I take this and give you a little bit of a break? She's not very well. I think the multi-annual nature of the European funding programmes has been very, very useful. People can plan, you can get staffing in place, you can have really strategic aims and I think that's really useful for the institutions involved. Of course, what we don't have is multi-annual budgeting from the UK Government. So, whilst I think we would, in an ideal world, like to see a better view of what's coming our way, it's extremely difficult for us to be able to offer that without having that multi-annual funding commitment from the UK Government. So, I think that will be a major, major loss for the institutions concerned. Of course, it's not just about ESF and apprenticeships—it's also about ERDF funding. So, you mustn't forget that, actually, there's been a lot of ERDF funding that's gone into these institutions. Swansea University, you'll be aware, has been practically rebuilt with ERDF. Also, FE colleges—we've got Coleg y Cymoedd, the college in Blaenau Gwent. These have been built, largely, with European funding. It's because of the multi-annual nature of the fact that we've been able to prepare for them that they have been able to progress. So, that will be a huge loss, but I think it's really important that we don't forget the ERDF aspect in addition to the ESF impact that there will be on these institutions.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. As far as further education is concerned, in your paper you state that it's a priority to support the FE sector to maintain all the learning opportunities that currently take place under European Union funding. So, would you be able to give the committee an idea of the level of resource you would estimate that the sector requires to achieve that priority, and—? I'll stop there for the moment.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it is important. What we've said is that we want to maintain that range of learning opportunities that is provided by EU funding. I think we've got to be clear that we are not working to this scenario. I think we've got to—. The UK Government have made us some promises and they've made some commitments, and we need to hold them to that, and so let's keep the pressure on. The moment we start saying, 'No, it's all going to be okay, we'll sort ourselves out'—I think that would be a huge mistake. We have been promised that we will not lose a penny as a result of Brexit, and we need to make sure that we keep them to that commitment. I think it was quite interesting to hear what Philip Hammond said yesterday when he was in Wales, saying that the money that we will receive will depend on the future shape of the economy, which implies that he has no idea what's going to happen there, and that that shared prosperity fund will be designed around the deal. Well, that's really not what we're interested in. We were made some promises, and we need them to commit to those promises. I think we have some real concerns about the shared prosperity fund not really following through on the commitments that were made during the Brexit referendum. But, in terms of the replacements, we'd be looking at about £15 million a year, and that would be a huge impact for us, but we're not looking at that—I don't think we should be—because they made some promises.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, could you say that, if they keep their promises, then at least that level of funding would be maintained?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that would be a minimum, but that's just one aspect of it. That's not including the whole workplace learning money on top of that.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Suzy, you had a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, just very quickly on the multi-annual point, obviously I recognise that we're talking about six or seven-year cycles with Europe, and I completely take the point that you don't really know from year to year what your budget's going to be, but Welsh Government does make multi-annual commitments. I think you did it yesterday, actually—the capital commitment is over more than one year. How are you able to do that and yet not quite feel confident that you can do that with—well, both your sectors, really?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's probably easier to do with capital than it is with revenue, so that's what would make the difference. But it's—. These institutions are interested in revenue, because that's what supports the staff. The one thing we all know is that employment opportunities today—the transitional nature of employment and the fact that people are not getting the kind of contracts that we'd like them to get—that makes their lives very precarious and they're less likely, then, to be committed to those institutions. I think it's a really, really concerning thing, because what makes these institutions work well is their staff, so that makes life very, very difficult without that multi-annual commitment.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "They also have to raise some of their own money as well—we mustn't forget that.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "No, I think that's right, and I think that there's more that these institutions can do in terms of their own funding and being more responsive to employers and the need for skills in their areas.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, given the precarious state of planning for the finances, are you considering letting universities charge EU students international fees?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We don't regulate the ability for universities to set fees for international students. They would be in a position to—[Inaudible.] They are in a position to set international fees at a rate that, I guess, they feel is appropriate for the provision that they give to those students.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, right. We'll move on, then, to questions from Llyr.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I just wanted to pick up on the funding of apprenticeships and the long-term funding, because the ESF—the commitments take us to 2023, which takes us beyond any transition period. So, I just want to hear from you that there are assurances that the apprenticeship programme can be delivered as a whole, come what may.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we're fine until 2020, because we've had that guarantee from the Government. The issue for us is the n+2 that we would have if we do have some kind of transition deal or an agreement with the EU. So, there is a risk and there is concern, beyond 2020, that that would create problems if they don't agree to fund that, which is the expectation that we have.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "But it is a prospect that this wouldn't be achieved as you foresee.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we do hope, because we've had the pledges and commitments from the Government, that they will respect what we expected and what was expected by these institutions that have had the commitment of the funding.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, to what extent does that undermine the current work? Because institutions want to enter into agreements with providers and so on. Businesses want to know, if they're starting on some sort of journey, that they are going to get to the end of it some years down the line. That must be undermining a lot of the work that's going on now.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said, because the guarantee is there until 2020, I think that, for now, people are willing to go into those agreements, and I hope that we'll have a better outlook by November of the direction we're moving in. But I don't think it's had an impact. You have to remember that the number of apprenticeships in Wales is rising, while they've collapsed entirely in England. So, it is important that we do continue, and it's important that we don't create an atmosphere here that's going to undermine the confidence of our employers in committing to training in the workplace.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Are you confident that the Government will achieve its targets in this context?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. We're on target to reach 100,000 apprenticeships. I think we're slightly ahead of that target, I'm pleased to say. So, of course, our hope is to do that. But let's be clear: if there is a 'no deal' scenario, that will have an impact on the economy, and who knows what will happen then to some of these companies that are reliant on the EU.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Talking about the impact on the wider economy, on the point you made earlier that it's not just the direct effect on these institutions, but also on the businesses that they engage with, that is a concern in this context, that means, of course, that there is a lot of pressure in this context on the work that other departments in the Government are doing, because perhaps they are the ones dealing with some of this. So, could you tell us a little bit about how you're working with Ministers and Cabinet Secretaries and other departments within the Government to safeguard these interests?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "So, as part of the employability programme, I have started going round every member of the Cabinet to ask what the impact will be on them—for example, in health, and, certainly, the economy, but here are many other areas. What's important for us is that we do collaborate and we do get this analysis, but we hope to do that on the ground through the regional skills partnerships. That's our way of ensuring that we can have an understanding, on the ground, of what's needed by employers. And so ensuring that people feed into that and that we respond to those requirements—that's where we're focusing our work. So, we're asking, for example, health boards to ensure that they feed into the regional skills partnerships.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Is there a danger that we're a little bit behind in this process? Because Brexit could be upon us in no time at all, and, of course, this work is still ongoing.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I have been pushing and ensuring that in the direct areas facing the greatest risk, and agriculture's one of those, of course—. We have been pushing to see what we can do further, so, for example, I'm in the process of developing a policy on rural skills at present because I do think it's important that we do focus on those sectors that are likely to suffer the worst impact if the worst does happen. So, those preparations are in place as far as they can be, but, of course, it's very difficult without knowing to what extent it's going to impact on us.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And each sector's running on its own timescale, I would presume. But, as you've mentioned rural skills, when do you foresee that that work will appear, and when will plans or schemes or whatever you're intending to put in place see the light of day?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we hope during this term that that will be published or announced. So, certainly, it is something that we have been discussing with people in rural areas directly, with the colleges, to see what the provision is there and to what extent we need to expand that, and to what extent we will need to change and move really quickly if there is no deal. That's something that I think we have to learn and we need to convince the FE sector about in terms of moving more quickly and to be more responsive to the demand that there is in the workplace.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, because there is the dilemma you touched on earlier about providing the skills that are required for the economy and providing the courses that are easy to fill. That is a live discussion across FE and HE, but you're confident that that discussion is taking place in a constructive and positive way and moving in the right direction.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's helped that we've put £10 million on the table, because they do understand now that we are serious about our aim of ensuring that they do respond to what employers are asking for. So that has helped a lot in terms of focus and, of course, we're in the middle of a review now as well in terms of how we fund FE, and that will certainly be a part of that.",
"speaker": "Eluned Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thanks.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Can I just go back—?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, Chair, could I just clarify something? The last question you asked me about—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I was just going to go back to that, yes.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "—fees—. Sorry. Of course, that is in the context of a 'no deal' scenario. There could be a scenario where there are reciprocal arrangements, so, if a deal was reached with the European Union that established the principle of reciprocal arrangements, then, obviously, the ability of the HE institutions to charge international fees would be curtailed. I just want to make that clear.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "If there's not that agreement—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "If there's no deal—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "—then it will be open to universities to charge market-driven, international rates.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that's right. Sorry, I just wanted to clarify. I should have made it very clear that the answer I gave was in the context of no deal, which is what we seem to be talking about mostly this morning, but if there was a deal to have reciprocal arrangements, then that ability, obviously, would be curtailed.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members? No. Okay, well, can I thank the Cabinet Secretary, the Minister and the officials for attending and for answering all our questions? We very much appreciate your time. As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy after the meeting. Thank you very much. Okay. Item 5, then, is papers to note. Members will see that there are 18 papers to note, so I'd like to suggest that we note them as a block, please, and just to flag that I would like to return to paper to note 18 when we go into private. Is that okay with everyone? Everyone happy to note those? Thank you. Item 6, then, can I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting and the whole of the meeting next week? Are Members content? Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_2 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"15"
]
],
"topic": "Current situations and the ways to staff the schools in particular areas"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"42"
]
],
"topic": "Policies and measures related to free-school-meal children during the pandemic"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"43",
"60"
]
],
"topic": "Advice to people in difficult situation in childcare setting"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"61",
"81"
]
],
"topic": "Ideas about timescales for setting out what approach would be to handling the lack of exams"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"82",
"113"
]
],
"topic": "Issues related to the potential closures of colleges and universities"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"114",
"123"
]
],
"topic": "Problems and related advices concerning vulnerable learners"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"124",
"141"
]
],
"topic": "Indications and questions regarding emergency legislation"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Basically, the Children, Young People and Education Committee's meeting was about the current situations and policies regarding schools, students and staff during the COVID-19 pandemic. Dealing with this pandemic was extremely challenging and the government had to make decisions quickly to ensure public safety. The main concern as the education Minister was to protect all staff and pupils in schools and other educational settings. Their belief was that no child shall miss out on any education, unless absolutely necessary. From next week, schools would have a new proposal which would help support those most in need, including people involved in the immediate response to the coronavirus outbreak. The key was that they were looking at supporting and safeguarding the vulnerable and ensuring continuity of learning, which included all of those who benefited from free school meals and children with additional learning needs. What they needed to do now was to do all the work together as they were facing the continuing challenges posed by the coronavirus.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, they are actually in an unusual situation but they were trying to create a system where it would be seamless and it would not necessarily matter that two of those weeks were formally holidays. One particular group of children and young people that they hoped would be eligible to be included in the potentially vulnerable category was young carers. The basic principle they used was that even if it was a minority of children who went to those schools and were vulnerable, they deserved and needed the support through the school.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about policies and measures related to free-school-meal children during the pandemic.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"42"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty admitted that they were now in a strange situation. What they were trying to work to was that they would have ongoing provision. Also, they were trying to create a system that would run uniformly. Such was a rapidly-evolving problem and the scale was something that they had not seen in 100 years. Therefore, they would have to evolve and iterate things as they went. Now they were worried about displacement activities. During the holidays, every head teacher would be in school on Monday with their staff.",
"query": "What were the measures concerning the normal holiday provision for children?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"28"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Based on Kirsty's words, this was a potential. The local authority had already chosen some locations and was already having communications with how they would then staff the centers. The local authorities were best placed to understand what was the best, pragmatic use of the resources that they had available, and of course those resources, primarily, were human beings. They wanted to give the parents confidence that, when they left their child with us, that child would receive something really worthwhile, and they could direct all of their attention to doing their job.",
"query": "Would that be possible that they might move children on to fewer sites?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"29",
"40"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Already, local authorities were making different provisions. Even in special schools, there would be children whose parents would be key workers. Therefore, they would expect them to expect those sChools to apply the same principle. They would have to continue with the principle of keeping social distance and any provision for a child in a special school in a different setting would be unlikely, given the nature of the special school. Thus, they would look to cater for that within the original school.",
"query": "How would special schools fit into the new purpose arrangement?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"41",
"42"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty believed that it was a devastating decision to have been taken. But they had done so on the very clear and unambiguous advice from Qualifications Wales. They were dealing with a situation that requires human beings to be involved in it, and those human beings could find themselves unwell. Therefore, their best attempts would be to maintain the normal rhythm of an exam's day in August, but that had to be caveated by the fact that they were dealing with difficult circumstances. With regard to AS-levels, no final decision has been made for exactly how those students would be treated. There were a range of options that could be used. With regard to other types of qualifications, the vast majority of BTECs was a modular continually-assessed piece of work, and they would have every expectation that BTECs would be able to be awarded.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about ideas about timescales for setting out what approach would be to handling the lack of exams.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"61",
"81"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, all exams were cancelled, but year 11 and 13 would be given a grade. That was because those years and those grades were gateway qualifications, and they were points of movement in the education system. Therefore, it was really important for those students that they were not disadvantaged in any way by not being able to receive a grade that helps them to make a decision as a qualifying step into what they would do next. Actually, they could make sure that their standards were maintained by actually having that modulation across that UK. So, the children could have real confidence.",
"query": "What was the further clarification and advice about coursework?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"64",
"65"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, children might well have done lots of oral exams in their English and in their Welsh language. Therefore, they had lots of pieces of work that would have been externally verified. They certainly would ensure that these concerns were passed on. Their job was to make the decision on the examinations on the basis of having confidence that what could be put in places was fair and was equitable, and they had the confidence that they would be the case.",
"query": "What's specific about the elements of coursework that were externally verified?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"67",
"68"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The answer was positive. The views of university and how university terms might be impacted was one of the ways and one of the reasons that they had factored in to making these decisions. The discussions with universities were ongoing. The conversations would continue as they work through the practicalities of how the gradings that were awarded were going to feed through into university admissions decisions and enrollment.",
"query": "Had the universities across the UK indicated that they were content with the approach going forward?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"79",
"81"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, they had been very impressed with the maturity and forward-planning that had been adopted by all of those institutions and their representative bodies. They had got consistency in the approach and a common desire, and investment in moving towards online support for students. There was still a safety net idea. Colleges had indicated, as with schools, that, for the most vulnerable learners, they would have something in place that might permit attendance on an individual basis. Any Welsh Government support going to stay, whatever the circumstances were. They would do their best to ensure that there would be no disruption to EMA.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about issues related to the potential closures of colleges and universities.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"82",
"113"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty believed that universities were autonomous institutions - a status that they guarded jealously and they would never want to question. Colleges were in a similar position, looking to do as much as they could to provide continuity of learning via distance learning methods, and the Bill, potentially, did give them more powers of intervention in both the FE and the HE sector.",
"query": "What sort of conversations were they having with FE and HE at the moment about how they decide the closures?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"83",
"94"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Actually, they did not anticipate any change in the approach to students. Individual student circumstances could well change and their expectation would be that the Student Loans Company would respond to that. There would undoubtedly in some cases be really typical challenges to service delivery, simply because organizations could be losing staff because of illness or the need to self-isolate or because they were reacting to social-distancing messages from the Government. They instituted a monitoring process very early on in the onset of the disease, not least because a number of institutions had campuses and activities in China and other parts of south-east Asia. And so, as the disease had progressed, they had seen lessons being learned from the support for students who were in isolation coming from there to the UK.",
"query": "What were their opinions on support or changes of circumstances?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"102",
"108"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "In Huw's opinion, there were lessons that would need to be taken on board. There were established quality assurance and enhancement procedures in institutions to enable the tutors and other supporters to make sure that that material meets their needs. The intention in all of these institutions was that they would complete their course of study. Therefore, they were confident that that system would be robust and would make sure that the students were getting a course of learning that met their needs.",
"query": "What's their attitude towards the question whether students might need to be refunded some of their tuition fees?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"109",
"113"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, this was a really worrying time for children and young people. For schools and institutions, they had the formal NHS counselling services to the check-ins. They were concerned that for some children, their access to their counselling was via their school. They knew that and they were just double checking the capacity of online counseling that already existed - online counselling tools that children already used because they did not want to go to the counsellor in the school and be seen in the school corridor going to the counsellor.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about problems and related advices concerning vulnerable learners.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"114",
"123"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "During a prolonged period of closure, they had to acknowledge was what they were looking at—they would expect school staff—well-being staff, for instance in school—to be doing check-ins—phone check-ins, potentially, or FaceTime check-ins, with students, just to keep in touch with them as we go forward. They would be looking to promote amongst young people a range of online facilities that were available—so, for instance, Meic website—so, looking to use a variety of platforms.",
"query": "What considerations were they giving to how that mental health and well-being might be supported through what was an incredibly difficult time for everyone?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"114",
"115"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Because that routine of going into school and that normality was one that they had needed and wanted to maintain. They needed to understand, and Kirsty thought that they would also have to recognize, that this support would have to be ongoing once they were back to normal, and they would have to continue to look to support children in the longer term who would have lived through this experience. They were incredibly resilient, and they had been the champions of some of our public health messages. They were so much better and so much more compliant on the whole 'washing your hands' and things like that than even adults have been.",
"query": "Why did they want to keep schools going as long as possible?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"115",
"116"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, no formal decision had been made. They were facing unprecedented circumstances. The normal rules had to change and, those organizations, they would need them to be providing youth services for children when they were back to normal, and they wouldn't want to do anything that would undermine their ability to do that. Their call to the youth service was a call to arms, though.",
"query": "With regard to the national youth voluntary service, would the support and funds be able to be maintained even if settings had to be shut as well?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"116",
"123"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I've received apologies for absence from Siân Gwenllian, and I'm very pleased to welcome Helen Mary Jones, who is substituting for Siân today. Can I ask whether Members want to declare any interests, please? Can I just, then, place on record that I have got a son who was about to do A-levels, so is affected by the exam decision? We'll move on, then, to our substantive item today, which is an evidence session with the Welsh Government around the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on education in Wales. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams, Minister for Education; Steve Davies, who is director of the education directorate; Huw Morris, who is the group director, skills, higher education and lifelong learning; and Rob Orford, who is the chief scientific adviser for health. Thank you all for coming. We know that this is a really difficult and pressurised time for everyone, and we appreciate your attendance. Minister, I understand you wanted to make an opening statement today.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, if that's okay, Chair. As you know, it's not usually my practice to do that, but I think it is important today. COVID-19 coronavirus is one of the most significant issues that the Welsh Government and the people of Wales have dealt with in recent times. Dealing with the impacts of this pandemic is extremely challenging. Things are changing on an hourly basis, and we have to make decisions quickly to ensure public safety. But I would like to assure you that our aim, and my aim, and my main concern as the education Minister is to protect all staff and pupils in our schools and other educational settings. But we also have a duty to ensure continuing and continuity of education. Public health is clearly the priority here, but that does not change our belief that no child should miss out on any education, unless absolutely necessary. So, the decision to close all schools from tomorrow for statutory education provision was not taken lightly, but I believe it was necessary, given the advice and recommendations that we had received from a public health perspective and the situation that was developing on the ground. From next week, schools will have a new purpose. They will help support those most in need, including people involved in the immediate response to the coronavirus outbreak, and I'm working with my colleagues in the Cabinet, with Government officials and our partners in local government to develop and finalise these plans. The key areas that we're looking at are supporting and safeguarding the vulnerable and ensuring continuity of learning. This includes all of those who benefit from free school meals and children with additional learning needs. I can confirm that all maintained schools in Wales already have access to a range of digital tools that can support distance learning through the world-class Hwb digital learning platform, including virtual classrooms and video-conferencing facilities. A guide on what tools are available and how schools can use them has been developed and is being promoted widely. Yesterday, I announced that, whilst there are no easy choices, we have agreed that the best way forward is not to proceed with the summer exam series. Learners due to sit these exams will be awarded a fair grade to recognise their work, drawing on a range of information that is available, and I will announce further details shortly, but I felt it necessary to give early certainty to students and to staff. I would like to put on record my thanks to everyone working in education settings for the hard work that they have put in over the last few months in dealing with the virus and ensuring that pupils have been able to continue to learn. We need to continue to do this work together, as we face the continuing challenges posed by the coronavirus. Diolch yn fawr.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Minister, for that statement. We'll go to questions from Members now, and I've got some questions from Dawn Bowden.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Can I thank you, Kirsty, for your statement and the really difficult decisions that you've been having to make? You've already indicated in your statement this morning that these decisions are not taken lightly, and we understand that that is the case across Government. So, thank you for what you've been doing. You've outlined a little bit further there in your statement to us this morning about the new purpose. I take from what you're saying that you haven't really developed that yet in terms of exactly what that is going to look like. You've talked about the children of key workers, free school meals, additional learning needs. Is there anything else you can tell us about that at the moment and how you might staff the schools in those particular areas?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Dawn. So, you're absolutely right, our priority now is to operationalise, with colleagues in local government and schools, a practical response. And I have to say, we're working to timescales that I would have hoped to have avoided, but given the fact that we're having to make these decisions quite quickly, I hope that you will understand that perhaps where we start on Monday might change when we have more time and more opportunities to develop programmes going forward. Steve will be able to give you more details of the practical work that has already been going on, but our expectation will be that schools will be playing an important part in providing safe and secure places for children of those on the front-line response to dealing with the coronavirus to attend, and work is already under way with local authorities and individual schools on what that will look like for the emergency situation on Monday. Our other priority is indeed free school meals, and, again, where we eventually end up might be a different place to where we are on Monday. Again, we're responding to the emergency situation that there will be families that were expecting a free school meal on Monday, and, again, individual schools and local authorities are developing those plans at pace to be able to provide an emergency response as we work out a longer term plan to deal with the situation. The same thing also goes for additional learning needs, and attending to the needs of that particular group of learners. So, those conversations began a few days ago. I had the opportunity to meet with the First Minister and Andrew Morgan, the leader of the Welsh Local Government Association, yesterday to talk about what local government could do, and what they were already doing. Those plans in some places are already quite developed, and are now working at pace, but I hope you will understand that where we start on Monday is the emergency response, and that work will develop as we go forward. But, Steve, perhaps you could—? Because Steve was the one making all those phone calls and doing the practical operational stuff, rather than me. Steve.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "In short, the new purpose is to meet the needs of particular groups of children and young people. In some cases, some of the response to supporting free school meals, in the short term in particular, we may use the schools as part of that, and I'm certain that will happen in some cases. The second area is looking at how we support the children of key workers. Now, there is still work to be done on identifying exactly the categories of key workers, but I think it's really encouraging that in my discussions yesterday—I spoke with all 22 directors of education, and the examples we're picking up in their work with schools is they're already ahead of the curve in working with schools. So, schools have identified the number of children with health workers. It will grow, and we will need to look at that range. Then, the third area is vulnerable children. They're vulnerable sometimes in terms of education other than at school, vulnerable in terms of mental health, and for those children, as well as having an experience that we want to be planned, some have compared it to a snow day, particularly on Monday, when you're putting something together in the short term, but it will not be a formal curriculum that those children would normally go through. So, the range of activities—some will be focused on educational activities, some will be cultural, some will be sporting, and that plan will be developed on the basis of the age range of children, which in some cases may go from extremely young children up to those at the age of 16 in our all-through schools, but there will be a planned set of activities to cater for those children. What we are doing currently—I have staff back at Cathays Park who are in touch and working with directors of education to ensure that schools over the next two days will have been able to identify, at least at the earlier stage, in terms of health workers, the type and numbers of people. There are already schools who have informed us, and local authorities, of their plans for these activities to be starting next week, which is quite amazing, actually, given where we are. But we are expecting, and we're writing to schools today, that during the course of next week, headteachers to be in schools, and with their staff, taking into consideration the health guidance as to which staff should or should not be in, and in that period from next Monday through the two-week period, to Easter, we expect staff to be both planning for delivery post Easter, but also, as I said, building on and reflecting the good practice that's already in place for schools that have engaged in activities, and I'm sure a number of them will be inviting and enabling those children to come in on Monday. So, Monday will be a challenge for some, and not all will be delivering it, but we will be working so that we can get as much as possible delivered for those groups over the next two weeks, and particularly to have resilient programmes post Easter for the groups of children in those three categories that I said.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Those that have been identified. Can I just clarify one thing? One of the identified vulnerable groups would clearly be children on the at-risk register. They would be included.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, definitely. Vulnerable children, yes.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "In our discussions, we have asked local government to be working with the social services departments and individual schools to identify those children who may be in that situation. We know that, for some children, being at school is part of their safeguarding arrangements, and obviously we will need to be able to respond to those needs.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I wrote specifically yesterday to all directors of education to be assured that, for those children, the register is up to date and the plans are in place. I'm working with Albert Heaney my colleague, the director for social services, who is meeting with the 22 directors of social services today to look to ensure that we are joined up in ensuring none of these children fall through the gap.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I've got a supplementary from Hefin, and then Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "A very quick and simple question: how are you going to communicate this to parents? There's a bigger picture and it's changing all the time, as you said. The Welsh Government have a route to communication. The most helpful thing I've seen is that Public Health Wales have a single website with information regarding the wider issue of the virus. How will this then be cascaded to schools, because there's obviously a time lag? So, have you considered how this is going to be communicated directly to parents?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "We're using all of our platforms of communication to get these messages across. So, we're using the more informal methods of communication, but are relying on a systematic approach via individual directors and through to individual schools. Welsh Government already has a dedicated website page with all of the relevant information about coronavirus. We're looking, as quickly as we can, to have a frequently asked education questions page that we can update. Understandably, people are communicating to us on Twitter asking questions. It is impossible for the communications team here to be able to respond individually to every single person that is sending Facebook messages and sending tweets, so the best way we can do that is to collate the types of questions people are asking and then to be able to have a frequently updated question and answer page to try to respond to that. With regard to parents, for instance, we're aware of schools that have already sent a questionnaire out last night to parents saying, 'Do you consider yourself to be a key worker? Do you work in the NHS? Please let us know by tomorrow so we can put arrangements in place for your children.' So, schools are already taking the initiative and having those conversations with parents about what their needs will be. And, as I said, Hefin, will it be perfect on Monday? No. It won't be perfect by Monday, because we're working to such constrained timescales. But we will continue to build that resilience. We also have to think about systems that look at what might the epidemic do and have systems of resilience that may work next week, given the situation we find ourselves in with public health advice at the moment. But that public health advice may change. Therefore, have we got a system that will be resilient in those circumstances? These are some of the challenges that we're having to grapple with. So, as I said, what happens on Monday might look very different to where we are if schools are still off in May. So, I hope people will understand that we are working in those kinds of scenarios.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Suzy, you had a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, just on this question of vulnerable children, I'm just wondering how much discretion teachers are going to have in including individual children who may not be obviously under social services' care or on a risk register or whatever. Teachers know their pupils and, very sensitively, they could include people who may not be obviously in need.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We would absolutely respect the professional judgment of individual headteachers to be able to have those conversations with their directors. As you said, quite rightly, they are the individuals who know their children best and know which children, perhaps, will need this extra support. We will put no constraints on those teachers trying to do that work.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. The second part of my question is: there were going to be Easter holidays anyway, weren't there? What was going to happen about free-school-meal children during that period? Has that gone out of the window now, the normal holiday provision for children? Because that's not there normally, is it, except in separate—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We do find ourselves in a strange situation. My understanding is what we're trying to work to is that we would have ongoing provision and not to make some strange, 'You get this for two weeks, then you don't get it for two weeks, and then you're back in.' My understanding is, in England, that is what they're going to do. We're trying to create a system where it will be seamless and it will not necessarily matter that two of those weeks were formally holidays. It won't matter to those nurses and doctors who will need to be in work during those weeks. We're trying to create a system that will run uniformly. That's our policy goal at the moment.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Helen Mary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just briefly, building on Suzy's question, one particular group of children and young people that I hope will be eligible to be included in the potentially vulnerable category is young carers. For some of them, they may not be able to come into school because the people they're caring for may have to be excluded because of their conditions. But I think that, for other young carers, coming to school is an absolute lifeline, because they're working at home. So, I don't know if it's appropriate for you to specifically mention those in discussions with local authorities, but it's a group of young people who, again, may not be vulnerable in other ways, but because of their caring responsibilities they may need school. And the other group—and this, I suppose, goes back to Suzy's point about teachers knowing their young people—is the children who may be living in situations where they're at risk of witnessing domestic abuse. Again, these may very well not be children who are in any formal contact with social services, but being at home may be really not a good place for them to be. So, again, I'd put in an appeal for that to be something that perhaps can be raised with schools. If a teacher is worried about what a child's circumstances are like at home, whether they can be, as you said, Kirsty, included as one of the—. They may not be formally identified, but if the teacher knows that they're at risk, or there is an instinct that they're at risk, they might be able to be included in children who are allowed to take advantage of this special provision you're making at this difficult time.",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "We will certainly raise those issues. We have to do that in the context of what is deliverable, and we also have to do that in the context of the public health advice that we are receiving as well. One of the reasons why schools are closing is to help manage this disease. We know that the ability for school closures to make a contribution to that diminishes if we have significant children in school still. So, we will take these issues into consideration, but remembering this is part of an epidemic mitigation plan. Rob is the expert on that, not me.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, absolutely. This is a rapidly-evolving problem and the scale is something that we haven't seen in 100 years, and so we're having to evolve and iterate things as we go. Next week, I think, will look different to this week. So, it kind of is what it is. We've all got a role to play, and schools certainly have a significant role to play in breaking those chains of transmission. Areas that we're worried about are displacement activities. If we close the schools, then people collect at others' houses. We need to send a really clear message that you're all part of the solution, and the things that you do by distancing yourselves from your friends and your family are really important for us to get on top of this outbreak. The more that we can do that, the easier it will be when we go forward.",
"speaker": "Rob Orford"
},
{
"content": "I'm sure that that's true, but I'm sure that we wouldn't be wanting a child who's in a very pressured environment with perhaps a very difficult relationship between mum and dad—. It may be very important for those children to be out of that for some of the time. Hopefully, we're talking about relatively small numbers, but I just—.",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "We will look at vulnerability in a holistic way.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Janet, you had a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair, and good morning, Minister, and your team. Can I just put on record my thanks for all that you're having to endure at this moment? I think it's fair to say you have the support of Assembly Members and, indeed, our communities. Now, the question I have: if Cylch Meithrin have to close, where will they get money from to pay their staff? Because, currently, thankfully, there's support for businesses.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Janet, we're not doing Cylch Meithrin at the moment; we are sticking with schools, as we discussed in advance. Dawn.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just get some clarity, Steve, around what you were saying in terms of next week? Because I think the practical applications of this—and I understand that you don't know all of this yet, I understand that—the practical applications are what is coming to us, obviously, with constituents saying, 'Well, what's going to happen to that?' Just so that I can be clear, are you saying that, at this stage, every headteacher will be in school on Monday, as will all their staff?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Within the scope of the guidance in terms of their health, the expectation—and this will be conveyed in letters by the Minister today, to be made clear—is that they are closing for the majority of pupils, but our expectation within the guidance is that the headteacher with their staff will be coming in; for some to start the delivery of what we just described, but that will probably be small numbers, but more importantly to plan to ensure that, after the formal Easter period, which is school holidays, the schools are geared to cater for the range of pupils that we've been discussing.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "So, would you anticipate—again, I know this is all a bit 'if and when', and it depends on the changing nature of the advice, but from what you're saying, I think we can probably anticipate that, as we go forward, there will probably be fewer schools opening and operable—that we may be moving those children on to fewer sites. Would that possibly—?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "That is a potential. So, we already know that one of our local authorities already has identified a strategic pattern of schools that they will want to operate in this way. That local authority has already chosen those locations, and is already having communications with how they will then staff those centres. So, that could well—. That, I expect, in the longer term, will be the nature of the provision that we will get to. But that's not for us to dictate. The local authorities are best placed to understand what is the best, pragmatic use of the resources that they have available; and of course those resources, primarily, are human beings. So, we've talked a lot this morning in the context of teaching staff, teaching assistants, but we're also having discussions with local authorities, and I met with the Council for Wales of Voluntary Youth Services this week, to look at deploying youth workers, to look to be deploying other staff that the local authority may employ, like sports development officers. There may be cultural officers that can have something to offer. Welsh Government will be talking with a range of our partners who perhaps their normal activities can't continue at the moment, but actually have personnel who want to add to this effort, who want to be able to be part of a provision going forward in the longer term, to be able to provide a great place for children to be. We want to give parents, who we are asking—. Let's think about it, in these worst of times, we're asking parents to leave their children so that they can go and do essential work, and some of that essential work is putting themselves at risk, potentially. And we want to give those parents confidence that, when they leave their child with us, that child will receive something really worthwhile, and they can direct all of their attention to doing their job.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Just before you—. Janet, have you got a supplementary on schools now, not on early years settings?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I lost the signal before, so it's a little bit confusing at this end, so bear with me. Just in terms of the closure of schools, I have been asked by teachers what does new purpose—you may have covered it, but bear in mind [Inaudible.]—mean in practice. And also, they're already asking what will next—? I know you said earlier that next week could look and probably will look significantly different than this week, but what can they expect to be happening next week in terms of this new purpose work?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We've covered that, Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "First of all, Janet, I just want to say thank you very much for your kind comments. That's really, really kind of you. We will be sending a letter today to clarify those positions. So, each school will receive letters today about the expectations of schools next week.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think you're having trouble hearing us, aren't you, so I think—?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "No, I heard that loud and clear.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "But I think you missed the earlier comments, when we went into some detail on the new purpose of schools. So, I'm sorry about that; we are having some problems with the connection.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we couldn't get a signal.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Dawn.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just in relation to special schools and how they will fit into this new purpose arrangement.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, they're absolutely central to that planning. We know, again, that some of these children are our most vulnerable and they are some of our most pressurised families. Therefore, the same situation that we've just described for maintained schools also applies to special schools. We'll be having discussions about what arrangements can be made for those children within their own usual settings. In some cases, that may not be possible. So, again, already local authorities are making different provision. Can I give a shout out to the work of Rhondda Cynon Taf in this regard, who are already doing some excellent work with regard to how they can keep in touch with their children who usually would attend their special schools. But, again, Steve can give more detail.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think special schools have already been hit by this challenge, because a significant proportion of their children, because of their conditions, have not been coming to school, they've been isolated. But the principle we've used there is, actually, even if it's a minority of children who go to those schools and are vulnerable, they deserve and need that support through the school. So, we would expect that to function with the focus on vulnerable children. But similarly, even in special schools, there will be children whose parents will be key workers, so we would expect them to apply that same principle. Just quickly in response to the earlier question, while we may bring some groups of children into separate schools, we’ll have to continue with the principle of keeping social distance and any provision for a child in a special school in a different setting would be unlikely, given the nature of the special school, so we would look to cater for that within the original school.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Just a couple more questions from me. It’s likely, because I know it has already happened, that some schools might actually close before Monday. Some schools have already partially closed. Are you quite happy that headteachers still have the discretion to do that, if they feel that’s the right thing to do?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "In this situation, the discretion of the head still remains. As I said, we will be communicating with all schools today about our expectations, if at all possible, to have schools open for staff to do some of this planning and to be able to respond to these priority needs that we've just talked about.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "The rationale of headteachers for closing schools up to now has been that they can't cope with the safety of the children. I think, moving forward, it's unlikely that that would be a rationale that headteachers would want to use for not engaging and planning for the future.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "We're only talking about one more day, now, anyway, aren't we? So, just in terms of confirmed cases in schools, is your view at this stage that, if there is a confirmed case in a school, once that school has been deep-cleaned, it can reopen again?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "If we had a confirmed case in a school, then all the usual mechanisms arranged by Public Health Wales would kick in at that point.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And my final question is in relation to the position of early years and childcare settings. I know that kind of crosses over into somebody else's portfolio as well, but I think we know that. Certainly what I've seen, and I'm sure this is true elsewhere as well, we've seen nurseries closing down because the parents are actually taking the children out of those nurseries. I've got one in particular, there are kids from the ages of 6 to 12 years in there, and the parents are taking them out. They've got 30 staff there, catering for 200 children and no children to care for and the organisation, at this stage, is unable to claim on their insurance for the ongoing payment of those staff wages. Is there any advice that we can give to people in that situation at this stage?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Sure. As you say, many of these settings are businesses—people's businesses and they play a hugely important role and it's a very worrying time for them. We have said that we will continue to pay for childcare, delivered under the childcare offer even when a child is unable, or a parent is unwilling, to take up that place. So, if that setting is receiving a childcare payment from the Welsh Government as part of our childcare offer, that will be paid, regardless of whether that child attends or not. And I know that we're also working with local authorities to ensure a similar position on Flying Start childcare and early education. So, that payment will be made, regardless of whether a child is attending. It's also important that childcare settings will be able to apply for the various packages of support that are being made available by my colleague, Ken Skates.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Hefin, then Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I'd just like to turn that around from the parents' point of view. With schools closing, there are a lot of parents then losing 10 hours of free childcare, but from a settings point of view, they'll continue to be able to receive, for the time being, the nursery care.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, so the decision that has been taken by my colleague, Julie Morgan, is that settings should stay open at the moment unless public health changes. That's being kept under constant review on public health. Again, the issue is that we know that that childcare is vital to many families, especially—and we're particularly concerned about those individuals who are trying to help us overcome and solve these problems. If you have any specific questions about that, we'll be happy to take them back to Julie Morgan.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Is this the Cylch question?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, please.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, thank you. Yes, just basically, Cylch Meithrin, there are concerns—[Interruption.]",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We've lost Janet. We'll come back to her.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think if the issue is about funding for Cylch Meithrin, these are not normal circumstances. As a Welsh Government, we will take every step to provide continuity of funding, if at all possible. We will overcome this, and when we overcome this situation we find ourselves in, we will need those childcare settings, we will need those private businesses and we will need our Cylch Meithrin to be there to respond and to be able to go on doing the job that they usually do for us. And if there is any way that we can, as a Government, ensure that that happens by carrying on funding things, even if they are not able to run, all usual—[Inaudible.]— around service-level agreements are off. I'm not setting the precedent—let me make that absolutely clear. [Laughter.] But, you know, we will not undermine businesses and voluntary provision like Cylch by withdrawing Welsh Government funding. I hope I've been clear.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you for that.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Kirsty.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "If we can move on to talk about exams, obviously you made the announcement yesterday. I completely understand that everything is a very fast-moving situation, but, as you know, there are a lot of questions that people have about young people who've put a lot of work in. Are you able to tell us any more today? In particular, have you got any idea about timescales now for setting out what the approach will be to handling the lack of summer exams?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, it is a devastating decision to have to have been taken, but I have done so on the very, very clear and unambiguous advice from Qualifications Wales. I met with Qualifications Wales and the WJEC yesterday. What was most important to them was that I made an early decision and I did not equivocate on what would happen for the exams. I was able to make an informal decision at that meeting, and then, of course, there is a formal process that we have to go through. That, now, allows Qualifications Wales and the exam board to operationalise that decision, and they will be communicating with schools as quickly as possible about what schools will need to do to ensure that the systems that they will now put in place can work. We are trying, as far as we can, as I understand it, to be able to mirror as closely as possible the usual results day, for instance. It might not be possible, because, of course, we're dealing with a situation that requires human beings to be involved in it, and those human beings could find themselves unwell. So, our best attempts will be to maintain the normal rhythm of an exams day in August, but that has to be caveated by the fact that we're dealing with difficult circumstances. But, the WJEC and Qualifications Wales will be making urgent communications to exam centres to explain what will need to happen next.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Janet, you had a question on this.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I think I raised it yesterday, Kirsty, but you were receiving loads of questions. I'd just ask for some further clarification about coursework, because only 30 per cent of that is done. Years 11 and 13, typically, in my case they're what's been raised with me—do you have any advice for them?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, so, all exams are cancelled, but year 11 and year 13 will be given a grade—I think that's a distinction that people need to be aware of. That is because those years and those grades are gateway qualifications, and they are points of movement in the education system. So, it's really important for those students that they are not disadvantaged in any way by not being able to receive a grade that helps them to make a decision as a qualifying step into what they will do next, whether that be university, whether that be a degree apprenticeship or whether that be going into sixth form, into a college, into an apprenticeship or into some work-based learning opportunities. That's why we have to focus on those children, because for them, it is absolutely critical that we do. We are at an advantage in Wales, can I say? Because of the nature of our examination system, those students already have a lot of externally assessed work that we can use as a basis to move forward on. Because we've kept our AS-levels, we have got that data. Because we have a GCSE system—. Our year 11s, if they're doing triple science, they've already done 40 per cent of their paper, so we're very fortunate. Because of the structures that we have got in our qualification system, there is already lots and lots of externally-verified work that we can use, alongside, potentially, teacher evaluation of students as well. And I think that's really important. We’re starting from a better base than simply having none of that externally-verified data. What will also be important is that these children have confidence in those qualifications, and so we will be looking at a modulated arrangement within Wales, and I know that Qualifications Wales are discussing with their counterparts across the UK a modulated system across the UK. So, actually, we can make sure that our standards are maintained by actually having that modulation across the UK. So, we know that those children never have to worry about the rigour that has gone into determining that grade. So, they can have real confidence.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Helen Mary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. A supplementary question that might feed into that moderation. You'll know that the National Union of Students has suggested that black and minority ethnic children and children from the working class, on the whole, don't do as well, in terms of their assessment by their own teachers. I don't know what their evidence is for that. We also know, of course, that boys tend to do better in exams, and girls tend to do better at coursework, for whatever reason that is. So, just to ask you at this early stage to build in those considerations around potential unconscious bias into that overall system that you're talking about. And, of course, you are right to say that, because we have got some elements of external moderation here, those factors may be less for us in Wales than they might for colleagues in England.",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I think we are starting at a different base, thank goodness. So, you're quite right. As I said, students will have done unit 1 papers last year if they're GCSE students. Dare I say it, some might even have done early entry. So, we still have elements of coursework that are externally verified. So, children might well have done lots of oral exams in their English and in their Welsh language. So, we have lots of pieces of work that will have been externally verified. I certainly will ensure that these concerns are passed on. I'm sure that Qualifications Wales are thinking about it. I have every confidence that they and the WJEC will come up with a very comprehensive way of establishing those grades, but I have to say, in some ways, I have to step back now, because you would not expect me, in normal circumstances, to dictate to the WJEC how much percentage goes for that, and how much percentage is allocated for that; that would not be appropriate for a Minister. My job is to make the decision on the examinations on the basis of having confidence that what can be put in place is fair and is equitable, and I have confidence that that will be the case.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "A few things from me. One is, obviously, pupils are being asked to work at home as well now, some of whom will be doing GCSE and A-level courses. So, there's just a question, generally, from me— because we're encouraging these kids to carry on working—how that will be accommodated by Qualifications Wales, I guess, in this modulation process. It may be that your at-home work will be of a higher standard or a lower standard than a teacher would be expecting. Secondly, you mentioned the AS-levels, of course, as being of value at the moment, but we've got people in Year 12 who now won't be doing their ASs. Is there any steer at this stage about what they will be expected to do? Will they be doing two sets of exams next year, for example? Or is AS just off the table? In which case, how are the A2s going to be calculated in due course? And then, finally from me, we do have some vocational qualifications that are up for examination as well—your BTECs, and I think it's the Association of Accounting Technicians, which is a lot of computer-based learning—which is due to be examined within three weeks. Those aren’t A-levels or GCSEs. I appreciate that you may not have the answer just at the moment, but are they off as well is the question, I guess?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "With regard to AS-levels—no final decision has been made for exactly how those students will be treated. There are a range of options that could be used, but again, we will want to be thinking about student well-being, fairness and equity in that regard, and I will update Members as soon as I have received definitive advice from Qualifications Wales around that, and that hasn't happened yet. With regard to other types of qualifications, as you will be aware, the vast majority of BTECs is a modular, continually-assessed piece of work, and we would have every expectation that BTECs will be able to be awarded, but clearly, those conversations are with awarding bodies—they tend to be UK awarding bodies, rather then necessarily our WJEC exam board—and those conversations are ongoing. But I have every expectation that those qualifications will be awarded and, of course, because of their nature there's even more evidence of continued assessment. Huw, I don't know if there's anything else that you would like to add about those types of qualifications.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "No. I think you've covered most of it. I don't have a definitive answer for the ATT qualification, but we can look into that and come back to you.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Well, I've just had a constituent ask, so that would be very helpful. And homeworking—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Homeworking, right.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "—is that going to count towards the assessments, overall assessments?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, potentially, as I said. I don't know the exact elements. What will be absolutely necessary is that Qualifications Wales and the WJEC will be able to give absolute clarity and simplicity around how those grades will be arrived at, because parents, teachers and students will want to know that, and my expectation is on them to be able to clearly communicate what elements will and will not be taken into consideration when awarding those grades.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "That's great. At least we covered it. Thank you, Minister—thank you, Kirsty.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "And, just before we move on, have the universities across the UK indicated that they are content with this approach going forward—content to accept students on this basis?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Certainly. There have been discussions with universities and UCAS, of course, that this also has a bearing on. One of the—. And the views of university and how university terms might be impacted is one of the ways and one of the reasons that we've factored in to making these decisions. Those discussions with universities are ongoing, aren't they, Huw?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, we've been in regular conversation with Universities Wales and through them with Universities UK and we've received every indication that the approach that's been adopted here has been welcomed by the institutions. Those conversations will continue as we work through the practicalities of how the gradings that are awarded are going to feed through into university admissions decisions and enrolment.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Well, we've got some questions now from Suzy on the potential closures of colleges and universities.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, it's a very general question, really. I appreciate you've already indicated there are lots of ongoing conversations, but my understanding is whether colleges or universities close is pretty much still at their own discretion. We're going to be asking some questions on emergency legislation shortly, which may impact on the answer you can give today, but what sort of conversations are you having with FE and HE at the moment about how they decide?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, you're absolutely right. As we often say in this committee, universities are autonomous institutions—a status that they guard jealously and we would never want to question. Universities have been making the decision to move as much of their learning online as they possibly can and we continue to have conversations with them. Colleges are in a similar position, looking to do as much as they can to be able to provide continuity of learning via distance learning methods, and the Bill, potentially, does give us more powers of intervention in both the FE and the HE sector.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I might ask you about that in a minute, because I don't even know what the Bill says yet.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Huw, I don't know if there's anything you want to add.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "No—just to confirm what's been said and also to add in that independent training providers, similarly autonomous, like colleges and universities, have been moving in the same direction. We've been very impressed with the maturity and forward-planning that's been adopted by all of those institutions and their representative bodies. We've got consistency in the approach and a common desire, and investment in moving towards online support for students.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "And there's still this safety net idea. Certainly, colleges have indicated, as with schools, that, for the most vulnerable learners, they'll have something in place that might permit attendance on an individual basis.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "That's my understanding, yes, and, again, we've been in regular conversation with them about that. My understanding is that they're going to spend the next week working through the detail of how that will work for the institutions.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "That's fair enough. And, presumably, education maintenance allowance will still be paid.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Arrangements have been made to ensure that EMA continues to be paid to all students who are entitled.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "That's right. You indicated that any Welsh Government support's going to stay, whatever the circumstances are—in your portfolio.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I'm doing my best, but it's an absolute yes on the EMA. There will be no disruption to EMA.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. You might get some further questions on HE and FE.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. We've got some further questions, indeed, from Helen Mary and then Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Now or in a bit?",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just further to EMA, of course, at the moment, that has an attendance qualification, doesn't it? And you don't get your EMA if you don't turn up. Should we take from your last answer that that attendance qualification doesn't apply anymore?",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. They can't turn up if the institution is not open, and that's not their fault.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "No, but that is something that's been a worry, so that's really encouraging to hear. Thinking about students in higher education, can you give an assurance that student maintenance payments will continue as normal? Is that the intention?",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "That's really good to hear. And have you given any special ministerial instruction to Student Finance Wales on processing applications for support or changes of circumstances, or is that something that's kind of ongoing at the moment?",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "Those conversations are ongoing with the Student Loans Company. As I said, we anticipate no disruption to—. We don't anticipate any change in the approach to students as a result of this. Individual student circumstances could well change and our expectation would be that the Student Loans Company would respond to that. All I would say is, just to remind people: people who work for the Student Loans Company are no more able to resist this disease than anybody else. There will undoubtedly in some cases be really practical challenges to service delivery, simply because organisations could be losing staff because of illness or the need to self-isolate or because they are reacting to social-distancing messages from the Government. So, I think we just need to bear that in mind: that these organisations are doing their best, but, if they are badly affected by staff numbers being off because of the virus, then I hope people will give them due consideration.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that makes sense, of course, because we've been told that universities won't be able to entirely close, because there will be students who can't go home—",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "It is their home.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "—overseas students, for example. What discussions have you been having with the sector to make sure that those students' basic needs are met, that there's still food, shelter, whatever they need?",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, obviously, universities have a duty of care to those students that find themselves in those circumstances, and every conversation that Huw's been having would suggest that universities are well aware of their need to do that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "We instituted a monitoring process very early on in the onset of the disease, not least because a number of institutions have campuses and activities in China and other parts of south-east Asia. And so, as the disease has progressed, we've seen lessons being learned from the support for students who are in isolation coming from there to the UK, and I am assured that the universities here in Wales have got processes in place that support those learners.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "That's really helpful. And on this specifically—last question from me— have you considered whether students might need to be refunded some of their tuition fees, should the academic year not be completed?",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "So, as the institutions move more and more of their material and some of their assessment online, clearly, there are lessons that will need to be taken on board. There are established quality assurance and enhancement procedures in institutions to enable the tutors and other supporters to make sure that that material meets their needs. The intention in all of these institutions is that they will complete their course of study. There are appeals mechanisms and feedback mechanisms through the students union and through course committees and other things within institutions to make sure that any concerns or incomplete work are addressed. Failing those institutional mechanisms, there is a UK-wide system through the Office of the Independent Adjudicator for students to take forward any concerns that they have. So, we're confident that that system will be robust and will make sure that the students are getting a course of learning that meets their needs.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Suzy, you had a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "No, Mr Morris has answered my question.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. We've got a couple more questions now on vulnerable learners. I've got Helen Mary, then Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, Chair, the Minister has already answered what the—. But thinking just a little bit more broadly about the mental health and well-being of staff and learners across a range of educational settings, or, indeed, young people who can't access educational settings, what considerations are you giving to how that mental health and well-being might be supported through what is an incredibly difficult time for everyone?",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that is correct. So, our expectation would be that during a prolonged period of closure—which I think, if we're honest, we have to acknowledge is what we're looking at—we would expect school staff—well-being staff, for instance in school—to be doing check-ins—phone check-ins, potentially, or FaceTime check-ins, with students, just to keep in touch with them as we go forward. We'll be looking to promote amongst young people a range of online facilities that are available—so, for instance, Meic website—so, looking to use a variety of platforms. We do, of course, have the formal NHS counselling services. I'm concerned, of course, that for some children their access to their counsellor is via their school. We know that, and we're just double checking the capacity of online counselling that already exists—online counselling tools that children already use because they don't want to go to the counsellor in the school and be seen in the school corridor going to the counsellor. They're already using those online methods and we expect to be able to continue, as far as possible, those kinds of mechanisms where children can have their mental health needs and their questions answered, and their worries. I think we have to remember that this is a really worrying time for children and young people. One of the reasons, again, that we wanted to keep schools going as long as possible—and teachers have been working so hard to do that—is because that routine of going into school and that normality is one that we've needed and wanted to maintain. Children will have worries about their own health; they'll have worries about the health of their parents and their grandparents; they will be consuming potentially media and news stories that have empty supermarket shelves. So, we need to understand, and I think we will also have to recognise, that this support will have to be ongoing once we're back to normal, and we will have to continue to look to support children in the longer term who will have lived through this experience. They are incredibly resilient, and they have been the champions of some of our public health messages. They are so much better and so much more compliant on the whole 'washing your hands' and things like that than even adults have been. So, they are incredibly resilient, but we also have to recognise that it can be a really worrying time for them.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just—? Just a supplementary to that—you've mentioned already, Kirsty, the importance of youth services, and, particularly thinking voluntarily youth services, you've given the commitment, when were talking about Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin earlier, that services that are part-funded by grants through the Welsh Government, for example, thinking of the national youth voluntary service—will those be able to be maintained even if settings have had to be shut as well? Obviously, local authorities will have to make their own decisions about whether youth settings are kept open, but, in terms of the direct support from Welsh Government, can organisations that receive it rely on that through this time?",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "No formal decision has been made, but if people are in receipt of a Government grant from my department to run a service and that service can no longer run because of the public—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Because it's not safe.",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "—because it's not safe to do so, I do not foresee that we will be turning around and saying, 'We'll have our money back, thank you very much.'",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "That will make a lot of people happy, thank you. [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "As I said, we are facing unprecedented circumstances. The normal rules of engagement have to change and, those organisations, we'll need them to be providing youth services for children when we are back to normal, and we wouldn't want to do anything that would undermine their ability to do that. Our call to the youth service is a call to arms, though. When we're trying to maintain services for vulnerable children and for front-line staff children, they have a valuable role to play and I know that local government and the Council for Wales of Voluntary Youth Services are already in discussion about how youth services—. Many of our youth services work on an outreach basis. Those traditional youth clubs, because of austerity, are not necessarily there anymore, so they are well used to being out and about and doing outreach work, and they will have an important part to play in the services that we talked about earlier.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Helen Mary Jones AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Hefin, briefly, and then we're going to take one final question from Suzy on emergency legislation.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "All right. I'll declare an interest as a parent of a child with additional learning needs, although the question I'm about to ask doesn't reflect her interests. Additional learning needs pupils who are waiting outcomes of referrals—if they're currently waiting an outcome of a referral, will that process will be suspended or will it continue as normal? And, if it is suspended, will it pick up where it left off from this point?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we have to recognise that the ability to deliver business as usual has been massively compromised. I'm sure people will try and continue to do their normal activities and their normal jobs, but that might not be possible. I will have to check that, Hefin, to be honest. I don't want to give you any false assurance if, actually, the intelligence on the ground is that that simply will not be able to happen. But we don't—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Can we have a clear line on that?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "We don't want to jeopardise anybody, but as I said, some of the normal services are simply not available as everybody turns their attention to trying to respond to the pandemic.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Final question—because I know that the Minister's got a lot of things that she needs to get on with—from Suzy on emergency legislation.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not going to ask you if you'll use any powers you get under the emergency legislation, but are you able to give us some indication of what they might be?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Sure. For instance, the Bill will provide Welsh Ministers with powers to temporarily close schools or other educational institutions, childcare premises; powers to give temporary continuity direction—so, actually, the other way around, force things to be open—and to be able to direct resources. So, that includes, as I said, I could direct something to stay open if that institution was trying to close down. The powers also give flexibility to maybe be able to direct staff to other institutions that they would not normally work in, if that was part of our resilience needs. We'd also be looking at, for instance, relaxing requirements around ratios in childcare settings, or we might be wanting to do things around food. So, obviously, we have rules around the level of nutrition that schools should be giving their children. If there is a continuing role for schools in providing food, we might have to be a bit more flexible about what that might look like. So, those kinds of flexibilities—to be able to suspend things, direct things—that we would not normally have in normal circumstances.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And just to finish this one off—you may not be able to answer this one, in all fairness—in those situations where it's the Government who says 'no' to various things, does that then help people in the situation of Dawn's nursery, and insurance claims suddenly become more likely?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not an expert on insurance, and I don't know if anybody here can help me. But what my understanding is, is that even where Government has given a direction that does not necessarily mean that you will be covered by your insurance. What we're finding in the private sector is that insurance companies are not paying out, because even when a Government has directed it, they do not regard this as a disruption to business. So, the insurance industry is not my area of expertise.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "No, no, I accept that.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "It's not my area of expertise, but from what I understand from discussions around the Cabinet table, this is particularly problematic. Let me give you an example about how we've been trying to overcome some of this—it feels like an awfully long time ago now— you'll be aware that we gave directions earlier around cancellation of school trips abroad. Trying to make sure that that direction came from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, rather than the Department for Education was a real battle, because again there were fears that, unless that advice came from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, insurance would not kick in, and that was a two-day discussion.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. This is helpful to know, actually.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, these are the kinds of things that we're grappling with. But, as I said, thinking about it, that was only last week, but it feels like an aeon ago.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not holding you to that, but it helps us manage the questions we get asked.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but as I said, insurance is not my area of expertise.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "No, but thank you for answering.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, we've come to the end of our time. Can I thank you for attending this morning, and your officials? We do recognise what an incredibly challenging time this is, and we'd like to place on record our thanks to all of you for the work that you're doing to try and see us through this crisis. As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. Thank you again, all of you, for your attendance. Item 3, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_20 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"15"
]
],
"topic": "Introduction to the meeting and general discussion on Brexit's impact on Wales' higher education system"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"80"
]
],
"topic": "Detailed discussions on the impacts (economic, financial, recruitment, social) and their reasons respectively"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"81",
"92"
]
],
"topic": "Risk accrual assessments and their potential efforts of solutions"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"93",
"119"
]
],
"topic": "Financial funding barriers and future forecast"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting was about the impact of Brexit on the capacity of Wales' higher education system and some future risk assessments for the higher education institutions. The group discussed some current problems caused by Brexit, and the efforts they have made for current and future risks, on discussing the Brexit's impact on program Eramus and international mobility. Finally, the group discussed the financial funding barriers and future financial forecast for Wales' higher education system.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "First, the economic impact of Brexit is shown in a number of ways, like the extent to which the HE sector in Wales is exposed to sources of income that are located from the EU. We can also see some changes in students' applications and in increasing difficulties of the EU collaborative research activities. In terms of the financial impact, if it is accepted that the UK is a net contributor to the EU then, presumably, some of Wales' money will go straight into politics, and the benefits are unknown, which will become a matter of politics. In terms of recruitment, both European Union-domiciled applicants to Wales and non-EU international students decreased, who applied to Welsh institutions. While the number for both groups of students who apply to English universities increased.",
"query": "What did Dr. David Blaney think of the impact of Brexit on the capacity of Wales' higher education system?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"8",
"10"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The funding position would be the main pressure. The recommendations for re-establishing funding at Welsh institutions are expected to take quite a bit longer. Wales institutions are still funding at a lower level. Then, as for enrollments, there is also the start of a reduction, both in Welsh-domiciled and English-domiciled applications to Wales. And finally, the uncertainty about potential consequences that could arise from the review in England of fees and funding—the Augar review.",
"query": "Summarize the main pressures on the Welsh higher education sector at the moment.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"11",
"15"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "He thinks there may be two reasons. The first one is about the change in student support arrangements for EU students, which will have an effect of perturbation. Wales' institutions' fee level is slightly lower, but they do struggle in terms of the Anglocentric nature of the media and so on. The other dimension is about the attractiveness of the higher institutions in a highly competitive recruitment market. Wales universities don't have enough investment in facilities, and particularly buildings and kits.",
"query": "According to Dr. Blaney, what are the reasons for the drop in EU students applying to study in Wales?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"16",
"20"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "One of the reasons is relative safety, Wales is a comfortable and safe place to be. Then, being part of a UK system is also an important message there as well. Students enjoy a UK-quality system, a UK degree, and the strength of that brand is available in Wales, and they can be safer and more supportive in Wales.",
"query": "What does Dr. Blaney think of the reasons why prospective students should study in Wales?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"42",
"44"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Mr. Blaney, there's a Welsh Government HE Brexit working group, providing early summaries of the risks and the potential impact, in terms of the exposure of the sector to EU-sourced funding. Beyond that, the working group will also share the work that institutions are doing individually to look at how they would respond to different scenarios, which hasn't been implemented yet.",
"query": "Summarize the efforts of assessments on the future of the institutions.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"68",
"76"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Mr. Blaney, there are two dimensions. Fee and access plans are approved annually by Mr. Blaney's group. They go through their financial sustainability, which is based on their forecasts and data. And also, the fee plans themselves make assumptions about how many students of different types are going to be recruited. Unless the institutions can find other students, and they will reduce the amount of investment in the various activities that are identified in the fee plans.",
"query": "How Brexit might impact the fee and access plans of the higher institutions?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"72",
"73"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "They touched on contingency plans, which also focus on promotion and look for additional or increased sources of funding, and touched on strengthening the Global Wales engagement in order to sell Wales. The other sector that they worked on is the funding of infrastructure. So they worked with UK universities to make arguments at UK Government level.",
"query": "Other than fee and access reports, what else do executives do to assure that Welsh higher education institutions are effectively planning for Brexit?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"77",
"80"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Bethan Owen thinks that they can advise based on visible data and information and on their judgment. The big thing in this whole Brexit scenario contains so much uncertainty. And according to Dr David Blaney, they have varied links into institutions, having lots of conversations, getting information for the assessment about the financial sustainability of the institutions, assessing governance and management levels and foreseeing challenges.",
"query": "According to the group, are higher education institutions having enough preparations on expertises to react to the current situation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"81",
"83"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Bethan Owen, seven of the universities are referring to mobility, so they are including an element of it from their own income and fee and access income. However, Erasmus is such a well-established and long-term plan that to implement anything similar to it would be much less efficient and much more costly, so replacing it would be a challenge.",
"query": "What do the group think of the existing problem of Erasmus and the mobility funding for students?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"85",
"87"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "They were the first of the funding councils in the UK to have a memorandum of understanding with the National Union of Students in Wales, ahead of the rest of the UK in requiring all HE providers to have student charters and there are elements of student protection within the student charter. They're also requiring further education institutions who are regulated and deliver higher education to do similar or the same, and that's very important.",
"query": "What does the executives do to protect students' interests as the Brexit scenario evolves?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"91",
"92"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The biggest is that there's an issue about investment. The quality of the research base in Welsh universities and the productivity of that Welsh research base are both good, there's just not enough of them. If they want to be able to play into the UK-wide research funding, the investment has two dimensions. One is having enough researchers playing in larger projects rather than small-scale projects; and the second thing is that, compared to UK-wide research pots, Wales' core research funding is not competitive. Also, the Welsh sector has not been sufficiently focused on getting in on the conversations with the research councils.",
"query": "What are the other barriers to Welsh universities gaining more funding from UK research councils?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"95",
"96"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "First of all, whether the Brexit deal might impact adversely on the capacity of the collaborations is still unknown. But we've mentioned playing into Horizon Europe, and being able to continue with that would be an important part of that capacity. Wales should maintain the quality, maintain the impact, and hopefully grow the critical mass. Dr David Blaney thinks that they are already showing dividends in terms of the capacity to win more research funding, and to establish an even stronger presence in the international research market.",
"query": "What are the potential difficulties after Brexit for the continuation and enhancement of researcher collaborations and networks?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"117",
"119"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, and welcome to today's meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. Unfortunately, the Chair is unable to attend today, so in accordance with Standing Order 17.22 I call for nominations for a temporary Chair for the duration of today's meeting.",
"speaker": "Gareth Rogers"
},
{
"content": "I nominate John Griffiths.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Gareth Rogers"
},
{
"content": "I'll second that nomination.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "As there's only one nomination, I declare that John Griffiths has been appointed as temporary Chair. Thank you, John.",
"speaker": "Gareth Rogers"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you all very much, and item 1 on our agenda today is introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We've received apologies from Hefin David and Lynne Neagle. There are no substitutions. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2, and our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education, and our first evidence session. I'm very pleased to welcome the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales here today, and Dr David Blaney as chief executive, and Bethan Owen, director of institutional engagement. Welcome to you both. Thanks for coming along to give evidence today. If it's okay with you, we'll move straight to questions, and Julie Morgan.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Good morning. Bore da. I wondered if we could start off with you telling us what evidence you can see that the Brexit process has had any impact on Welsh higher education so far.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I preface the response by just reminding you that we are, by contract and by role, apolitical, and a lot of the judgments about the impact of Brexit essentially reflect where people sit politically in terms of whether they think it's a good thing or a bad thing? We're not going to go there, obviously, today, so we'll stick to the facts as we can see them, and hopefully we'll be able to help you, but there are areas where we are unable to help. That's part of the reason.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "We certainly do not expect you to enter the political fray in any way.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. But even in terms of your assessment of whether this is going to be a good thing or a bad thing, a good impact or a bad impact, some of that inevitably in the end becomes a matter of your politics on it, so we will be as careful as we can be on that. In terms of the impact of Brexit on higher education, clearly, the significance here is about the contribution that higher education can make to Wales. So, we fund provision; we don't fund providers, technically, although obviously there's not much provision without providers. So, we are interested in the sustainability of higher education providers, but fundamentally the issue is: what does the HE system in Wales do for Wales, and what impact might Brexit have on the capacity of the system to continue to deliver for Wales? So, we know that universities make annually about £5 billion of impact; 50,000 jobs. Of course, in Wales, all of that economic impact is really very significant, and uncertainty about the relationships and the arrangements with Europe is one of the most significant issues confronting university management at the moment. That has an impact in a number of ways. We can identify at the moment the extent to which the HE sector in Wales is exposed to sources of income that are located from the EU, so EU students, structural funds, and EU research funding, and so on, from the EU. We can identify some of that, but, actually, what happens in the future is much harder to be clear about. We are beginning to see some impact in terms of applications from EU students and I'll ask Bethan to share some details on that in a moment. We're also beginning to pick up, only anecdotally, some signs that there are increasing difficulties in the UK sector, and the Welsh sector as part of that, in playing in some of the EU collaborative research activities. And that, I think, just reflects the extent to which EU partners consider that British partners might be a stable partner as we go through this transition period. We don't have data on that—that's anecdotal—but there are signs that some of those relationships are beginning to become a little bit more difficult. In terms of the financial impact of that, clearly, if it is accepted that the UK is a net contributor to the EU then, presumably, some of the money—we're almost immediately straight into politics if you're not careful—but some of the money will be available back to the UK, and the extent to which Wales benefits or not from that returned money is a function of the political relationship between the Welsh Government and Her Majesty's Government. It's not necessarily the case that Wales will always lose out in that relationship, but that will become a matter of politics. There's a broader dimension, which is about the economic impact of Brexit on the UK economy and how much tax revenue there is and all of that. I think it's very hard for us to be definitive about how that's going to play out. I think that depends on the deal and how it all unfolds over the next several years. But we can certainly anticipate some turbulence and exactly how that plays for institutions remains to be seen. We can touch later on on the extent to which they are sighted on this and preparing for it. So, in terms of recruitment, Bethan.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "This is based on the UCAS applications and the report that was published at the end of June, 30 June. The European Union-domiciled applicants to Wales have decreased by 8 per cent, which contrasts with a 2 per cent increase for English institutions, and non-EU—so international students, not from Europe—have also decreased by 9 per cent to Welsh institutions, again contrasting with a 7 per cent increase in England. So, those are the signs of changes.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Could I then just ask you what you see as the main pressures on the Welsh higher education sector at the moment?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "The funding position would be the main pressure. The recommendations made by Sir Ian Diamond in his review of higher education funding and student finance are in the process of being implemented, and the changes to the student finance arrangements will take effect from this September. However, the recommendations for re-establishing funding at Welsh institutions are expected to take quite a bit longer. That funding, when it returns to institutions, is intended to re-establish funding for higher cost provision, both full time and part time; reinstate funding for innovation; and maintain, at the very least, the research funding in real terms. Universities, in the meantime, are trying to minimise the cost reductions that they're making in order to maintain the infrastructure, so that when the funding comes they can get the best value out of it. We have announced our funding allocations for 2018-19. For the research and teaching grant, though, we are still funding at a lower level—£12.5 million less—then the starting point for the Diamond report, the 2015-16 starting report. But we expect to be able to start introducing funding from 2019-20 to make a start on implementing Diamond. And it's probably important to note that the Diamond recommendations predated Brexit, therefore the challenges introduced by Brexit are in addition to those that the Diamond report was addressing. The other pressures relate to student recruitment. I mentioned the EU and international students. There is also the start of a reduction, both in Welsh-domiciled and English-domiciled applications to Wales. Enrolments are obviously the key important number, which we'll see later. And the other pressures include pay and pension costs, not least the issues around the universities superannuation scheme pension fund, where there's potentially a significant increase in cost. Increased student expectations for modern facilities and infrastructure bring a requirement for capital expenditure and borrowing, which bring their own pressures. And finally, the uncertainty about potential consequences that could arise from the review in England of fees and funding—the Augar review.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "In terms of European Union students and enrolment, is Wales forecast to do less well than England and, if so, why might that be?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "They are not forecasting it. It's very difficult until the enrolments are made, and it's also very hard to see—the data that we see is the UCAS data. Institutions also recruit directly, so until we see the actual recruitment—. I think the arrangements that have changed from 2018-19 also impact on EU students. So, now, they have to find the full fee, whereas previously they were getting the grant in the same way as Welsh students. So, I'm speculating that that might be having an impact as well on EU students' appetite to come.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "Okay. First of all Llyr, then Mark.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, that's straight into what I was going to ask, really, about what you think the factors are that led to this 8 per cent or 9 per cent drop in EU students applying to study in Wales, where we see a 2 per cent increase in England. Is that it, or are there other things that you've taken into account? What's your assessment of the reasons behind this?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "It's very difficult to be definitive about the reasons, but I think there are probably two. The one that Bethan has already indicated, which is the change in student support arrangements for EU students, will have an effect of perturbation. That's probably relatively temporary—let's hope it is—as that settles down because, actually, the deal for EU students coming into Wales is no worse than that coming into England. Ours would be better because the fee level is slightly lower, but we do struggle in Wales in terms of the Anglocentric nature of the media and so on. So, getting the messages out is a challenge. The other dimension is that when you're in a highly competitive recruitment market, you have to do what you can to look attractive. Part of that is about being able to invest in facilities, and particularly buildings and kit, and the relative levels of investment between Wales and England over quite a long period of time now probably have an impact on that. Certainly, anecdotally I know, from my own family, that a lot of the choices have been made in terms of the state of repair of campuses and so on. There's something rational about that, isn't there? If you've got a system that is relatively better invested, then you're likely to have a better student experience because the resources are likely to be better. So, that's not irrational. We saw a sort of similar but opposite effect when the £9,000 fee maximum limit came in, and some institutions, mostly in England—there was one in Wales—chose to pitch their fee levels really quite low, relative to that £9,000, and caught a cold in the student recruitment market because fee levels denote quality in the student mind. So, the price sensitivities work quite differently. So, again, if you've got a relatively better invested part of the system, then that might well be one of the reasons why it looks more attractive.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "That latter factor would affect the whole of the cohort, not just the international recruitment, of course.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Indeed. Yes, indeed. The implementation of the Diamond recommendations is crucial to that because that's re-balancing where the policy of investment goes.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And Mark.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "If I heard you correctly earlier, you said that the applications from non-EU students were also down by 8 per cent or 9 per cent. So, forgive me a certain scepticism about the explanation of the fall in the EU students being that they did get the fee grant and now they do not. If that's the explanation, why are we seeing the same fall in non-EU applications?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think the Welsh domiciled are also now having to face the prospect of finding a loan for the whole of the fee. So, that would potentially account for that. There's also a demographic dimension here with the downturn in the 18-year-old school-leaver profile, and that actually is happening in Wales at a slightly later point than in England.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "But this is non-EU students, and I think you said, Bethan, an 8 per cent or 9 per cent fall in them as well.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "International non-EU. I beg your pardon. I misunderstood.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "There's also a mix effect. I gave a number that was for all English institutions that there will be differential impacts on.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "All English or all Welsh?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I contrasted the Welsh position with the English position where they were seeing growth. If you look, then—and we don't have the detailed information, but, again, what UCAS publish is some analysis by tariff. They analyse by type of institution—in other words, the grades that you need to get into institutions—and there is a trend for growth being in the higher tariff institutions. So, there's a mix effect in there as well, and I think there's undoubtedly an element of perception of how welcome overseas and international students are, and that's something that we know the sector are working on with Government.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "Why would that affect Wales more than England? Do you think there's been perhaps too great a negativity about Brexit in the sector?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's the mix of institutions that we have. So, we only have sector information published at the moment. When we look at the mix of institutions that we have, we will probably see a differential impact between Cardiff University and others.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "Okay, Mark? Sorry, David, did you want to add anything?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I was just going to say that we would expect to see quite differential performance in the English sector, so the overall numbers are being brought up by substantial increased performance with some of that sector, and it's a question of how many of that type of institution you have in Wales.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "So, performance is increasing amongst the English universities, but not amongst the Welsh, you think.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I think performance is increasing, but increasing substantially with some of the English sector, not all of it. So, you get an average for the sector that is increased performance, but actually the stronger players within that sector, with the stronger international profiles, are bringing that up, and we have fewer in Wales that have that sort of presence.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Darren.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Would it be fair to say, then, that the universities over the border in England are better at selling themselves internationally than our Welsh institutions? Or is it just this fact that we've got fewer very high tariff universities versus the English market?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I suspect, and this is speculation—I suspect that it's a bit of both. I think some of it is to do with the mix of different types of institution. I would then come back to the point I was making about the Anglocentric nature of the UK media. If you're looking overseas, I think Wales has to work harder to penetrate the consciousness.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "But, forgive me, don't international students just look at the UK as a whole? How are we comparing to Scotland, for example, or Northern Ireland, in terms of their universities? Do you have a comparative figure for Scottish universities?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I haven't got that one with me for now, but there will be one in the data.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we could get that.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Again, it's a combination of being part of the UK but differentiating, and the ability to differentiate the strengths of Wales, so attracting those students to Wales specifically, on top of the UK draw.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "So, in terms of the efforts that have been made, there's a programme now that is being run by the sector in Wales—it's 'Study in Wales'. It's relatively recent; you could argue that we could have got there earlier. But that is a determined collective effort to present Wales as a good place to study, with particular messages about what distinguishes studying in Wales from studying more broadly in the UK. In a sense, that is responding to the need to increase the presence of Wales in an international market. So, that sort of initiative I think is very good, very welcome. It will take a while to actually have an impact, but I think that's exactly the sort of work the sector need to be doing more of.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "What are those messages on why prospective students should study in Wales?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "One of them in particular is relative safety. We know that one of the considerations, particularly for parents of overseas students, is are they going to go to a safe environment, and we know that the perception of international students who study in Wales is that this is a comfortable and safe place to be. That's partly a function of the size of our larger cities—quite a lot smaller than many of the cities in England. So, that's a key message. Being part of a UK system is also an important message there as well. So, we've got a UK-quality system, a UK degree, and the strength of that brand is available in Wales, but it's available in a way that is safer and more supportive, I think is the messaging that's coming through.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. We'd better move on, I think, hadn't we? Darren, then.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I just wonder to what extent you have been able to plan in your financial forecasts for the next few years ahead for the potential impacts of Brexit. What have you built in, if anything?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "In terms of our funding, we receive our funding annually, but the sector provides us with financial forecasts, and we use those for monitoring sustainability. So, the last full forecasts that we had were in July 2017. We are due to receive a full forecast at the end of this month, and we obviously have updated information from institutions.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "And they're three-year forecasts that come through to you, aren't they?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "They are four plus the current year. So, we've got numbers to 2019-20 at the moment, and expect to go to 2020-21.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "And what are the universities expecting? What do they anticipate?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, for 2017-18, which is the year we're about to end now, they were expecting £38 million income from European students, and approximately £91 million from the various European programme funding sources, and that's about 8 per cent of the total income—£1.5 billion—of the sector. The forecasts are assuming that that continues, albeit that institutions have various scenarios that they have for all sorts of scenarios that we can all speculate on, and, as I mentioned earlier, the balancing act of maintaining infrastructure and resources and staff in the short term is where we are at the moment, or where the sector is at the moment. And there are also signs that the banks and lending institutions are becoming a bit more risk-averse in providing borrowing to institutions, and of more differentiation between individual institutions being made than has possibly been the case in the past. The sector made an operating deficit, again looking at all Welsh institutions collectively last year, 2016-17, of £17 million. That's before other gains and losses. And we're expecting a similar collective level of deficit for this financial year, if not slightly higher. Now, these are managed deficits and we are not currently seeing critical short-term cash availability issues in the sector. However, the increase in funding from Diamond is a key part of enabling the sector to return to longer-term financial sustainability. Short-term challenges can be met if there's a reasonable prospect of future funding. You can manage in the short-term, but there comes a point when the big cost reductions and infrastructure reductions have to be made. And, again, having mentioned the pressures on pay, pensions and other challenges, it is difficult to gauge whether, if those factors come into play as well, some of these cost reductions may have to be made before funding comes in to replace—either Diamond funding or the European replacement funding.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "So, would it be fair to say that, in terms of the funding arrangements, and, in terms of the student numbers, one reason why we've got this recruitment problem is this lack of investment in the capital infrastructure that we've seen in recent years because of the financing arrangements from the Welsh Government, and the fee regime that we had previously, and the student finance regime that we had previously, not getting more cash into our Welsh universities perhaps, and that, over the next few years, there's going to have to be much more significant investment in capital if we're to raise the game and be more competitive, yes?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that would be fair to say.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "So, to what extent are they planning for more capital investment in those financial strategies that they've been preparing and presenting to you?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "They are all planning for capital investment. They are in different positions in terms of capacity to borrow and the assumptions. This year, 2018-19, is the first time that we've had capital funding in our remit letter—so, we've got £10 million of capital funding, which is very welcome, with a prospect of a further £20 million. So, that we will be allocating shortly. That will make a difference, particularly to those institutions who are not finding it as easy to borrow from financial institutions. Some of our larger institutions have borrowed—Cardiff University issued a bond. However, there are internal governance processes that are putting tight restrictions and expectations of what that money will be invested in. But they all have plans to do it and they need the confidence that their forecasts and long-term future funding prospects are secure enough that they can get the confidence of borrowers then, and service the costs of those borrowers.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "So, the Diamond dividend you've mentioned a few times. What clarity is there from the Welsh Government at the moment in terms of how much they anticipate the Diamond dividend will be, and what proportion of that is going to be released to HEIs in the future?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I was very carefully not describing it as a dividend—a re-establishing of funding that we had in the past for higher cost and innovation and maintaining research funding. The timescales are difficult, because we have an annual remit letter, and we can work with Welsh Government officials, and they can only give us a sense of when they think the funding will be released. But 2018-19 is the start of the system, and because of cohort protection—so, protecting those students who came in on a different deal to the deal from 2018-19—in the early years there is an element of double cost; there's a cost of seeing out the old system and the different cost of implementing the new system. So, at the moment, we're certainly not in a position to tell the sector with any degree of certainty what funding would be beyond what we've allocated for 2018-19, with some sense of what 2019-20 numbers we're working with because we allocate our money over an academic year—so, by definition, we've already made assumptions of four months of the 2019-20 funding, albeit that's not approved yet in the budgetary process.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "But you're not being given a steer at all as to what you expect the additional resource that you might have to make available to Welsh universities might be as a result of Diamond. You must have some idea.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's fair to say that officials have been as helpful as they can be with us, in terms of the planning assumptions we make and indications about whether or not we are being too ambitious or not ambitious enough. So, I think they're being very helpful; as Bethan said, they're constrained by the process—they can't pre-empt a budget process. And you folks will be fully aware of that, of course. The other question I think you asked was how much of the money released by the new arrangements will come into higher education. At the moment, we are expecting all of it to come into higher education, as the product of the arrangement between the current Cabinet Secretary and the current First Minister. The extent to which any changes there cause that to come under threat is something I can't judge at the moment. But we have had in our remit letter from the Cabinet Secretary a clear indication that we can expect our resource to grow over the next few years, as the Diamond process unfolds.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I'm just going to bring in Llyr at this stage.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Bethan said in an earlier answer that, I think, the financial forecasting from universities forecast something pretty consistent in terms of what they're hoping to be receiving in income, for example. But we've already discussed the near 10 per cent drop, potentially, in international applications. So, does that tally, really, or are they going to be recruiting additional students from the UK market or—? What's the plan?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I was reflecting on the last point when we had consistent information across the sector.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, they may need to revisit that in the light of this.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm expecting that the forecast that we get at the end of this month will reflect the reduced applications we've seen, and an element of that will be reflected in reduced improvements as well.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, we don't really know, then, whether—it's unlikely that they are going to expect a consistent fee income, really.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's fair to say we would expect them to respond to what they're seeing in the UCAS process. Even if they didn't, they would all, in any case, have sensitivities for what they would do if things don't come out in the way they hope. And if they didn't have that then we would be on their case, of course, because we want them to be properly sighted.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thanks.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "And we have to stick to the Brexit impact. Darren.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just ask, in terms of the impact of Brexit, have you done any assessment of what you think might happen, or have any of the institutions made available to you any assessments of what they think is likely to happen to their individual institutions, going forward? You've mentioned scenarios earlier on, David, so what scenarios have you set out?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "There's a Welsh Government HE Brexit working group, which is chaired by one of the Government directors, and we sit on that. And we have provided that group with early summaries of the risks and the potential impact, in terms of the exposure of the sector to EU-sourced funding. We have, as part of that working group, explored those issues that it would be really very helpful for either the Welsh Government to try to put in place or for the Welsh Government to persuade UK Government to do. And I think, in our submission, we identified a number of areas of what we would consider to be a helpful action, and that has been worked through that working group. We know that it has informed Welsh Government's position, in terms of what it does and also in terms of the conversations that they have with Her Majesty's Government. Beyond that, what we haven't done in that working group is share the work that institutions are doing individually to look at how they would respond to different scenarios. We are not able to do that here either because, inevitably, they would have varying degrees of unpalatability and they would have to be managed very, very carefully. You take cost out, which is essentially the response, you actually take people's jobs out, and all of that has to be managed carefully. So, that's not really a matter for public consideration, but we do know that the institutions are looking at a range of scenarios on what they would do. Bethan mentioned earlier on that the current deficit for the sector is a managed deficit—it's not something that has taken them by surprise. They are responding to what they see as the dip between where Diamond was reporting and where the money starts flowing. Similarly, I think we're comfortable that there is a managed approach to the scenarios that they're testing within institutions. So, they will do what they need to do to sustain themselves. The bigger issue really, in a public policy context, is the potential damage for the sector to be able to deliver for Wales in terms of research and skills development and all the other contributions.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "So, you're confident that they're taking a robust approach to planning for various scenarios, going forward, are you, as individual HEIs?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and as the deal becomes more clear politically, then they will obviously have greater clarity in terms of which of these scenarios they need to work up more fully, but they are sighted on it.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Can I just ask about fee and access plans, and how Brexit might impact them? To what extent do you think that they could be impacted?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I think there are two dimensions to maybe touch upon there. Fee and access plans are approved annually by us. They are approved in advance of the recruitment cycle for the year that they apply to. So, we're just in the process now of finalising our consideration of fee and access plans for the 2019-20 academic year. So, there's quite a long lead time. We, as part of that process, go through similar—we look at their financial sustainability, which is based on their forecasts—data to the stuff we've just been discussing. And also, of course, the fee plans themselves make assumptions about how many students of different types, from different domains, are going to be recruited. So, clearly, if there is a continuing downward pressure on EU student recruitment, then that will reduce the amount of fee income that's going to come in, unless they can find other students, and that will reduce the amount of investment in the various activities that are identified in the fee plans. In terms of process, we have two things that we can do. If institutions are becoming aware that the basis upon which they've submitted a fee plan is fundamentally different from the reality, then they can come into us for a change to their fee plan. So, we have a change process. If it's not fundamentally different, but there are always differences between what you plan and what happens three years later—. We also monitor after the event and, if there are differences, we would then obviously require institutions to explain those differences. If they've had fewer students and less investment, we would need to understand that. Conversely, if they'd had more students, and potentially more investment, we'd want to know what they'd spent it on, and if they've done different things, we'd want to understand that as well. So, we do challenge through a monitoring process. The only other thing that's perhaps worth saying is that, in the 2019-20 fee and access plans—they're not published yet, so I can't give you the full detail—five universities have made reference to Brexit and the Brexit impact, and things they want to do through their fee and access plan to try and address some of those issues, so they're in there as well.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "But we've already said, haven't we, that it may be nothing to do with Brexit, this dip in EU recruitment, because there are other factors like the attractiveness of the estates and the environment that young people might be educated in? But they're making assumptions that it's linked to Brexit, are they?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Not really. I think they're making assumptions that it could be. There are things they want to do to enhance and to protect student mobility, and some of that will be funded through fee plan investment. So, the Brexit conversation between the EU and the UK Government might or might not sustain Erasmus engagement, and if it doesn't, then they need to find other ways of trying to support that sort of thing. So, that's what we're beginning to see in the fee plans. It's them thinking about how else we can do this stuff.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay, Darren? Mark.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "You mentioned the fee and access report. What else do you do to assure yourselves that Welsh higher education institutions are effectively planning for Brexit?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "We've touched on contingency plans, but, in an environment of uncertainty, I think it's difficult for any of us to know what the right scenario is. I think rather than looking at worst-case scenarios, what the sector is also focusing on is the promotion and looking for additional or increased sources of funding. So, we touched on strengthening the Global Wales engagement in order to sell Wales, so more focus on marketing Wales overseas, but also within the UK. The other area where the sector is working at a UK level very hard is making the arguments to UK Government for maintaining access to the successor to Horizon 2020, which is arguably a larger part of the whole funding infrastructure—students is one part, but the whole funding infrastructure for maintaining research capacity. So, working with UK universities to make arguments at UK Government level for maintaining access to those sources of funding is also a part of what the institutions are doing. We mentioned the Welsh Government's HE Brexit group. That group, which is the Welsh Government group, is being advised by members on it, and that's informing Welsh Government officials when they engage with UK Government as well.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "Do universities seek your advice on what the risks and, indeed, opportunities of Brexit may be and what you think they should be doing to plan for them, or is your role more one of monitoring what they do as opposed to advising what they should do?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "They are autonomous institutions and ultimately their governing bodies are responsible for ensuring their sustainability. It's not a relationship where we would advise and direct, but it is a relationship where we would question the scenarios if we consider from our experience that we would have expected other scenarios to have been tested. It's that nature of conversation, rather than directing.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "I understand you don't direct, of course, but my question was about advising. You're overseeing, or monitoring—or whatever you like to describe the role as—quite a number of institutions, and presumably you therefore have particular expertise within your organisation, and I just wondered whether higher education institutions are doing enough to draw on that.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we can advise—we can advise based on data and information that we can see. We can advise based on our judgment. The big thing in this whole Brexit scenario is the uncertainty and the extent to which our speculation is better informed than the governing bodies or the sector collectively is probably the issue.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "I think that's right. So, there's a relationship with the sector and there's a relationship with individual institutions, and they are different. So, we have engagement collectively with the sector. Bethan meets with the finance directors, and I meet with the vice-chancellors. We actually have the sector and the funding council together on the Welsh Government's group. So, some of these conversations are happening in various ways, where we're all gaining intelligence about what might be a sensible set of planning assumptions. Then, if we see an institution that is manifestly giving signs of not being sighted on some of these risks, either through their forecast or through other assurance activity, we will challenge. We have an annual cycle, with two points in the year where we reassess the overall risks of individual institutions, and that's based on a whole range of hard data but also a range of soft data. Our links into institutions are many and varied. We have lots of conversations and we take all of that in the round and form an assessment about the financial sustainability of the institutions but also the extent to which we think their governance and management arrangements are properly sighted and facing properly the challenges that they face. In some ways, we say it's not about the challenges they face; it's about how they face the challenges. Our alarm bells really ring when we get the sense that, actually, either an executive or a governing body hasn't really noticed. We're not in that place, I'm really pleased to say. I'm not worried about short-term crisis with any of the institutions. There are medium-term real challenges, both because of Brexit and because of other contextual factors, but at the moment the sector is a managed sector, which is good. It's not always like that, but we're in, I think, a good place at the moment. So, our role is definitely to challenge where we don't think they are making sensible assessments, but it's not to say that their assessment is wrong and ours is right; it's just to have a conversation about, 'Why have you done this and what has informed your thinking?' It's slightly more one step back and slightly more subtle, but it is, as you imply, us using the intelligence we gain from all of those conversations when we talk to individual institutions as well.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Llyr.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, thank you. We had evidence last week from some of the higher education institutions, including Cardiff University, and it's very interesting, in relation to Erasmus+ and the mobility funding for students that, I think, only 40 per cent of the mobility funding in Cardiff is paid for by Erasmus+. I note that you've been consulting on national measures for higher education performance and that one possibility is using international mobility as a performance indicator. I was just wondering whether you might go further and expect universities to actually make commitments to funding international mobility from their own fee incomes as part of that.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Again, reflecting on the latest fee and access plans, seven of the universities are referring to mobility—either they have targets in them or are explaining what their plans are—so they are including an element of it from their own income and fee and access income. However, Erasmus is such a well-established and long-term plan—if we were looking at a scenario where that infrastructure wasn't available, to implement anything similar to that would be much less efficient and much more costly. And to enable an infrastructure that allowed—. Ideally, you'd want something that all Welsh institutions could take part in, and that takes some investment and some co-ordinating. And, equally, you need to have the arrangements with your overseas and European institutions. I think it's easy to underestimate the accumulation of time that has gone into establishing Erasmus. So, I think replacing it would be a challenge.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "And the point was made clearly last week that the brand is internationally recognised. When you enter into Erasmus+, you know exactly what you're going to get, and all of that. But there have been criticisms as well about degrees of flexibility and this, that and the other, so I'm just wondering whether—and there is presumably going to be some change on that front although I'm hoping we can buy into it, as others have done who aren't in the EU—that emphasis on encouraging institutions to look more proactively at funding their own mobility efforts would be positive.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the—",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Sorry—especially if it means that they do more of it.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Indeed. I think the Welsh sector is definitely committed to trying to find ways of promoting and resourcing that sort of mobility. There are signs that some of the restrictive elements of the Erasmus programme are going to change anyway, because that's under development and that's positive. There have been positive noises as part of the Brexit negotiations about wanting to carry on being able to access the Erasmus programme. Nothing is agreed until it's all agreed apparently, so we'll have to see on that one. That would be far better, I think, as Bethan indicates, than trying to replace it with a made-in-Wales only, but you could have a made-in-Wales on top. All of these challenges also create opportunities because they stimulate thinking, and so the fact that seven of the eight universities are already now using their fee plans as a vehicle for thinking about this is positive, and I think we can take that on from there.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Because that 40/60 split struck me as being the opposite to what I perceived the situation to be. A key part of your role is to work in partnership with students, so I'd just like to ask what work have you done with students, in terms of maybe protecting their interests as the Brexit scenario evolves?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as you say, we do work with students. We were the first of the funding councils in the UK to have a memorandum of understanding with the National Union of Students in Wales. We work very closely with them and the president of NUS is an observer on our council. So, we have close links with NUS Wales and we're very proud of that, and it's very productive. They don't have a vote, but they do have a voice and it really matters. We we're, again, ahead of the rest of the UK in requiring all HE providers to have student charters and there are elements of student protection within the student charter. The UK-wide quality code also has elements in it where arrangements have to be specified about the protection of student interests. That is particularly, in essence, around circumstances where a provider gets into difficulties and they might wish to close a course or something more drastic and then what arrangements are in place to make sure that those students who are in train are protected. So, that is there and we've worked hard with the sector and with NUS Wales to get those measures in place. There's more development work in train at the moment, so we've asked Universities Wales to construct a protection that takes account of the approach to protecting the student interests in higher education. We're also requiring further education institutions who are regulated and deliver higher education to do similar or the same, and that's very important. The students who are HE students in FE are absolutely not second-best, and they should have the same protections.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "But is all this a general piece of work? It's not Brexit-specific, although, no doubt, it may—.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that's fair to say, yes. The other dimension around Brexit is the immigration status of EU students, and that's, kind of, beyond our pay scale—that's a UK Government issue.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Is that something that you have a view on?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "It's clearly in the interest of the enrichment of the curriculum and the student experience for students in Welsh institutions to be able to have students from other EU countries in the mix. So, it would be nice to find ways of continuing to facilitate that.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Now, of course, you have a statutory duty as well to assess the academic quality of the work in our higher education institutions, and I'm just wondering what potential impacts you think that Brexit might have on that particular aspect.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I think there are possibly a couple of things to say, and one, in a sense, echoes what I was just saying in the final part of my previous response, which is that part of the quality of the student experience is the richness that you get from having students in your cohort who have different backgrounds and different perspectives. So, if there is a continuing reduction in the number of EU students coming into Welsh institutions, then that richness deteriorates. That doesn't mean to say that the base or the threshold standard of what's required for a degree will come under pressure, it's just about the richness on top of that, which will be, in a sense, a quality-enhancement issue. That would be something that we would wish to try to protect against, but in the end you can't force EU students to come—you have to try and look attractive, and we've touched on that. The baseline requirement assessment of quality will not be affected by Brexit, except in so far as the machinery we use to discharge our statutory responsibility, which is through the Quality Assurance Agency, which themselves are accredited with European Association for Quality Assurance in Higher Education, the European machinery for higher education quality. And there's a set of standards around that, and we would obviously wish not to be in a position where our ability to use and adhere to those standards is adversely impacted upon. Those standards will still exist, and it will be possible for the British system to adhere to them, even if they're not actually able to play in the same way. Then the only other thing I would say is that one of the factors that can cause the quality of the learning and teaching experience to be likely to become inadequate is when institutions come under financial pressure, just because their capacity to maintain the same sort of student experience can get under pressure. So, clearly, we will be looking for and making sure that institutions manage the financial pressures, if there are any—and there are some at the moment, as we've described—and manage those carefully. And in all of that, we will expect institutions to do their duty to make sure that the commitments they've already made to students are carried through. So, where students have already started on the course, they need to be able to finish that course—you can't just pull the plug out. So, all of that comes into the arrangements for quality as well. So, we'll be keeping an eye on that.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. A lot of what you've told us in the last three quarters of an hour or so will have costs attached, depending on the impacts. Certainly, we're in choppy waters as a sector anyway, and the risk is that things will be even more choppy, if you'll excuse that level of political interpretation, over the years to come. I'm just wondering what advice you might have given the Welsh Government in terms of what level of transition funding, or Brexit transition funding, might be required by the sector, and if you have, what the Welsh Government might have told you.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I mentioned earlier that, obviously, we've provided information in terms of the assumptions that the sector are making on income. So, for the year 2017-18, that was £129 million. I think the extent to which that needs to be replaced or supported with transition funding depends absolutely on what the final arrangements for Brexit are, but it's an appropriate point to refer to the report that Professor Graeme Reid has produced, commissioned by Welsh Government. That was, and has, provided advice and recommendations for supporting research and innovation in the transition period. But, again, the Reid recommendations in that report build on the Diamond recommendations, and as soon as Diamond is in place—and Reid is providing recommendations in addition, to establish funding on the basis that the funding needs to be available in Wales to maintain and develop and strengthen the research and innovation infrastructure that we have.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "Are you not worried, though, that the clock is ticking and that we really don't know what the situation is at this point?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Do you mean the Brexit situation?",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "The Brexit clock, yes.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Uncertainty is unhelpful, because as I've said several times, the sector is a managed sector at the moment. I don't think there's—. We're not seeing maverick stuff, but actually you can only manage, really, what you can see and what you can reasonably predict. So, the longer the uncertainty persists, the more difficult that is for institutional management and, indeed, for the rest of the machinery to support them. So, yes, the sooner we get clarity, the better for everybody, I imagine.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Chair, can I just ask a question?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, Darren.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "In terms of uncertainty, though, we've still got this uncertainty over whether the extra cash that the Government's going to have to spend as a result of Diamond being implemented is coming to the HE sector. They've given a political commitment, but you've got absolutely no other assurance of the sums of money that are coming in. We've got the reform of tertiary education arrangements in Wales, which are also under way, so it's a bit of a perfect storm for you, isn't it, really, with all of these three things happening at the same time?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "We're certainly kept busy.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "But two of those things are in the gift of the Welsh Government to sort out for you, aren't they?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the policy on the reform of the post-compulsory sector absolutely is a Welsh Government policy. The extent to which they can pre-empt a budgetary process and give us clear sight of the amount of money in future years is—. Well, again, it's not for me to comment. My understanding is that that's difficult for them to do, and I would repeat what I said earlier: officials have been as helpful as I think they can be in respect of that. I mean, you're right, we've only got a political commitment between two people currently in post. It would be great to have that firmer. I'm not sure how that could be done.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "I mean, that statement about the savings accrued from Diamond being reinvested wholly into the HE sector has not been repeated, frankly, has it, since the coalition deal was struck?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "No, but it hasn't been rescinded either, so—.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "No, but there have been opportunities—repeated opportunities—in the Chamber, where the Cabinet Secretary's been asked to repeat that commitment, and the First Minister's been asked to repeat that commitment and has not given that commitment. That must concern you, and must concern your university sector even more than, perhaps, some of the elements of Brexit that we're discussing.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Bethan has outlined earlier on in this session the fact that institutions are currently running deficit budgets in order not to lose the infrastructure on the assumption that the Diamond money will come in. If anything were to cause significant perturbation, either to the timeline of that or to it coming in at all, then there would be much more of what Medwin Hughes calls 'houskeeping' that would be required, and that would be significant. So, at the moment—I don't like the expression 'valley of death', but there is a valley to cross, and I think the sector is reasonably confident about how wide and how deep that valley is. There's a demographic valley as well. So, there are several valleys that they're crossing—the metaphor fails, doesn't it, really, but I think you get the drift? So, there are a number of challenges and they can see their way out of some of those challenges, but if any one of these starts to get significantly disrupted, then that would be a real issue for them.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Could I go on to ask about other barriers to Welsh universities gaining more funding from UK research councils? What would you say those barriers are?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think there are a couple of things, really, to say. The first one—and we'll sound like a stuck record if we're not careful—is that there's an issue about investment and the Reid report makes this very clear. So, he has reaffirmed research that had been done previously that identifies that, actually, the quality of the research base in Welsh universities and the productivity of that Welsh research base are both good, there's just not enough of them, and that, in the end, is a product of investment decisions. They have particularly looked at the deficit in science, technology, engineering and mathematics areas, and I always say that research is not just STEM. I mean, STEM is important, and I'm not denying the deficit in that area, but we have to also remember that the research agenda for Wales is not just STEM—it's arts, humanities, it's social sciences. If you look at the impact on public policy that could come from social science research—tremendous. And we're very good at it in Wales. The Welsh impact in its research is better than anywhere else in the UK, so that's good. So, they do very well, and we just really need to invest a little bit further—so continue to do very well, but put it on a broader front. If you want to be able to play into the UK-wide research funding, then the investment has two dimensions to it. One is just having enough researchers to be able to play into those increasingly larger projects rather than small-scale projects. If you haven't got the critical mass, it's very hard to make the case that you can play. And the second thing is that UK-wide research pots nearly always fund at about 80 per cent of the total cost of the research, and the other 20 per cent is meant to be found from the core research funding for the university, and if you're in a situation where your core research funding is not competitive, then you're not going to be competitive at getting that money. So, that's, kind of, straightforward. There are other things. I think it's fair to say that the Welsh sector has not been sufficiently focused on getting in on the conversations with the research councils, making sure they're in the various committees and so on. We are intending to do a bit of work to see if we can systematise that a bit better—that engagement—because there's no doubt about it: it's not to say that this system is in any way inappropriate, but the more you're in the conversations, the more likely you are to be better placed to respond to the research challenges that come up.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. One final question: in terms of the researcher collaborations and networks that exist, do you see potential difficulties after Brexit for the continuation and enhancement of those, and are there any particular lessons to learn from Sêr Cymru II?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that there are two things to say here as well. First of all, the Brexit deal might or might not impact adversely on the capacity of Welsh and, indeed, UK research infrastructure to play into broader collaborative activity across Europe, and, in a sense, that's a function of the deal whatever the deal looks like, and we'll have to wait and see. But we've mentioned playing into Horizon Europe, and being able to continue with that would be an important part of that capacity. It's not just the money, it's being in the club and it's the signalling that we're in the game. So, all of that would be important. And then the other part of my response to this would be that, actually, Wales will need to continue to be good at the research it does, so maintaining the quality, maintaining the impact, and hopefully growing the critical mass. The Sêr Cymru initiative has been quite important in doing that, because it's been very focused, capturing key research players, and the attractiveness that that has then to other researchers around them, and to industry collaboration, and they have been areas of real strength that we've invested in. And I think they are already showing dividends in terms of the capacity to win more research funding, and to establish an even stronger presence in the international research market.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Just one further point, from Darren.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Just very briefly, one of the pieces of feedback that the committee members received at a stakeholder engagement event, which took place prior to this inquiry starting, to receive oral evidence, was about the research funding that is available from the charitable sector, and how poorly Wales does in attracting some of that research. I think we had some figures from the British Heart Foundation, which said they have £100 million a year available for research grants, or something like that, and we're getting 1 per cent of that coming into Wales, which is obviously pretty low down. I appreciate that research into the type of activity that they want to put their money into, Wales may not be particularly good at, and there may be other opportunities with other charities and partnerships. What work are you doing in order to build the capacity that Wales has to attract more of that charitable sector research funding into Wales?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "One of the issues is the capacity to engage with that funding, because of the overhead issue that David mentioned. Charitable funding at the moment doesn't attract any overhead funding. Again, that could be built in to our funding, if we had the capacity to increase our quality-related research funding. There is an element in England.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "But that pressure's the same in other parts of the UK, is it not? So the overhead funding is still an issue in England, and in other places.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "There is an increased contribution, and I think it's an element that was increased this year to acknowledge that. But there will be differentiation between different charities. I'm fairly certain that some of our institutions will be very strong with the cancer charities, possibly not the heart foundation. And some of that will reflect on focusing on our strengths, but to have that fuller picture.",
"speaker": "Bethan Owen"
},
{
"content": "So, this gearing issue that you mentioned earlier on, for every £1 that somebody else puts on the table, they can draw in another £4 on top, because that £1 will cover the overheads, whereas the rest of the research cash—.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "That's exactly it. So, the more you're able to invest—. You know, we sometimes get into a conversation about the unhypothecated nature of our research funding, but actually that creates a flexibility and the infrastructure investment that allows institutions to be able to respond to these other opportunities. Without that, they can't do it, because if you're not careful, you've got institutions engaging in UK-wide or charity-based research activities where they're actually having to pay for it themselves—they're running at a loss.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "So that's the main problem; it's not that Welsh universities aren't doing their best to get this cash in. Or is it a bit of both?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, in the main, universities and researchers will get their cash from wherever they can, so I don't think it's a lack of appetite.",
"speaker": "Dr David Blaney"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, thank you, both, for coming in to give evidence to the committee this morning. You will be sent a draft of the transcript, to check for accuracy. Diolch yn fawr. Okay then, the next item is item 3, papers to note, the first of which is a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education on the school organisation code. The second is a letter from the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care on the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Chair of the Finance Committee regarding scrutiny of the Welsh Government's draft budget for the forthcoming financial year, which we will be discussing under item 6 on the agenda. Paper to note 4 is a letter from the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care on parental attitudes towards managing young children's behaviour. And the final paper to note, paper to note 5, is a letter from the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care on the children and family delivery grant, which we will discuss later on in private session, if Members are content. Okay. Are you content to note those papers on that basis? Okay. Thanks very much. Item 4, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting, and also for items 1 and 2 of the 20 September meeting. Is the committee content? Yes. Thank you very much. We will move then into private session.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
}
] |
education_21 | Committee | [
{
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"topic": "Talk on the roles and function Qualification Wales and WJEC in the education system and curriculum"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
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"topic": "Debate over making teaching materials available in both Welsh language and English"
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"relevant_text_span": [
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"topic": "The digitalization of materials and whether the lack of textbooks would affect pupil's performance"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"45",
"54"
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],
"topic": "The timetable of the curriculum reforms and a general plan for the future"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting was mainly about the provision of textbooks and learning resources for pupils. To start with, Philip Blaker generally introduced the position of Qualification Wales in the education system, focusing on the design of the qualifications and then the delivery of the assessment. Meanwhile, Gareth Pierce talked about the process of making teaching materials available bilingually, both in English and Welsh language. It was suggested that both versions be carried out simultaneously to ensure equity. Concerns were also raised about whether the procedure would delay the availability of the textbooks. What's more, the meeting also discussed the digitalization of materials. The council worried that the lack of digital accessibility and digital literacy would have an impact on pupils' performance. However, it was concluded that the process would widen the access to different materials. The meeting also talked about the timetable of the curriculum reform and the general plan for the future, mainly on the qualification and teaching materials.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Qualification Wales was the regulator of the awarding bodies, mainly focusing on the design of the qualifications and the delivery of the assessment. They were also responsible for maintaining standards, making sure that the grades people got were fair through comparable outcomes.",
"query": "Summarize the role of Qualification Wales, according to Philip Blaker.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"2",
"5"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Gareth Pierce was aware that many websites they referred to in their resources and many case studies were purely in English, while it was the Welsh language that was used in the educational context. Gareth Pierce believed it was very unfortunate for different schools to translate materials independently from each other, concluding that it would be necessary to translate materials in both languages to enable teachers to refer to terms in both languages.",
"query": "What did Gareth Pierce think of the translation of materials between the two languages?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"6",
"11"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Darren Millar thought replacing textbooks would cause a lot of pressure and extra work for teachers and students, believing that the textbook was a basic element for children to learn and revise and an essential core piece for qualification. Also the digital resources were not accessible for everyone even in Wales. Darren Millar AN was also worried some learners would face disadvantages as a result of textbooks, who might not adapt digital contents well.",
"query": "Why did Darren Millar AM disagree about WJEC's approaches to textbooks?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"28",
"44"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "About the accessibility of digital resources, Mike Ebbsworth held that the teachers could print the materials to suit the learners at any given time, while Gareth Pierce believed that the technology, as well as the content of a textbook in some form, was vital. They both agreed that the digitalization process would add flexibility to the teaching materials. About the pupils' adaptation of digital contents, the WJEC thought digital literacy was a basic skill for examinations as A-level or GSCE. Also it was hard to evaluate whether it was the lack of textbooks that affected pupils' performance, as there were so many factors.",
"query": "How did the WJEC tackle the concerns raised by Darren Millar AM?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"29",
"44"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Gareth Pierce believed that the subsidy would be necessary, and thought of the subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the curriculum.",
"query": "What did Gareth Pierce talk about the subsidy in developing materials bilingually?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"62",
"63"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The publishers in England agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version was available and then to publish simultaneously.",
"query": "What was the decision of WJEC to reduce the delay between materials having an English version and a Welsh version?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"65",
"65"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Darren Millar AM thought it was inappropriate to delay the availability of a textbook that was already late on schedule so that the two language version could be published on the same day. John Griffiths worried that the approach would potentially put English students using the English-language version or Welsh students using the Welsh-language version at a disadvantage.",
"query": "Why was the council disagree about WJEC's decision to delay the Welsh/English version?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"68",
"83"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Gareth pierce believed that there were different types of unfairness in different individuals' opinions. It was hard to judge what sort of inequality could be having an impact on young people in therms of achievement. So Gareth Pierce didn't think he could go any further than acknowledging any inequality was unfair.",
"query": "What did Gareth Pierce think of the digital inequalities as a kind of unfairness?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"97",
"98"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "They drew on a body of expertise and emphasized the importance of the approach and skill. They would also assist young people with their engagement with the scholar items and understanding some themes.",
"query": "According to Gareth Pierce, how did they develop the pupils' skills to analyse and combine information into a discursive argument?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"109",
"112"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Gareth Pierce decided that they would have regular meetings with Estyn about any problems with the specimen assessments and the mark schemes. They agreed with Estyn that ideally the whole package of resources should be available before teaching starts and would work on that.",
"query": "How did WJEC respond to the criticisms from Estyn about the materials?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"116",
"119"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Philip Blaker thought it needed to be determined. But he also believed that Welsh Government had a role in curriculum at that moment, so Welsh Government had responsibility for the curriculum and drew people together to look at the new model for the future.",
"query": "According to Philip Blaker, who should be responsible for developing the curriculum resources?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"131",
"132"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members whether there are any declarations of interest, please?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I have a declaration of interest, Chair. I understand that my daughter features in one of the videos that is going to be used to contribute evidence to this inquiry. And, in addition, I'm a governor of one of the schools that features in the video.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Darren. So, item 2, then, today is our first session on the provision of textbooks and learning resources for pupils, which is a video of interviews with young people and teachers. The committee team has been out to take video evidence around Wales, and we're now going to watch the results of that on the screen. Okay. Well, I'm sure that the committee would want me to place on record our thanks to the young people and the teachers who took part in that very helpful and informative video. We'll move on now then to our evidence session, and I'm very pleased to welcome Gareth Pierce, chief executive of the WJEC, Mike Ebbsworth, assistant director educational support, WJEC, Philip Blaker, chief executive of Qualifications Wales, and Emyr George, associate director general qualifications at Qualifications Wales. So, thank you all of you for attending and thank you for the papers that you provided in advance as well. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions now, and if I can just start by asking you to outline what you see as your role in ensuring that students and teachers in Wales have the resources that they need to pass general qualifications and what you think the role of commercial publishers and Welsh Government is.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Shall I start? So, Qualifications Wales is the regulator of the awarding bodies, so we regulate awarding bodies. Our powers are structured around the regulating of awarding bodies. We don't regulate commercial publishers nor the provision of textbooks within that. In regulating the awarding body, our primary focus is also on the design of the qualifications and then the delivery of the assessment. So, it's much more around the assessment side than teaching resources. That said, when we are going through the design of the qualifications, we go through an approval process, so we develop approval criteria and we ask WJEC to submit their specifications against those approval criteria and sample assessment materials as well. So, our focus is very much on making sure that teachers are able, through the sample assessment materials and the specifications, to have a good understanding of what is going to be expected of them in the examinations and of their pupils in the examinations. So, that's setting out the knowledge, skills and understandings that will be assessed by WJEC when those exams are sat. We have in the past pulled together groups of people to look at issues like resources. So, during the last round of approvals, we pulled together interested parties in Welsh Government, regional consortia and WJEC to look at resources that would be available with a view to facilitating the discussion about who would be best placed to fill the gaps where there may be perceived to be gaps in resources. Our other primary role is in maintaining standards. So, as the regulator of qualifications, what we want to do is we want to make that the awards of qualifications—so, the grades that people get—are fair. One of the things we do is set out the way in which the awarding bodies will set grades—so, the awarding process, the methods that will be used—and then we monitor WJEC's award of grades against those processes. During a period of change, we prescribe the use of comparable outcomes as the primary approach, largely because comparable outcomes are designed for circumstances like this, where there's a change in a specification particularly, because there are any number of reasons, including resources, why performance may be different from one year to the next, but comparable outcomes is there to ensure that, all things being equal, if the cohorts have the same ability, the same grade should be awarded from one year to the next. We do recognise that there have been delays in textbooks. Much of that has been related to the timelines that we've all had to deliver new specifications against, which have been far from ideal for everybody involved. We think that particularly our role moving forward will be looking at the timelines for reforms that will be necessary for the new curriculum to make sure that this situation isn't repeated and that there is sufficient time in future reforms to allow for greater system readiness. In terms of the roles of others, Welsh Government have a role at the moment in terms of grant funding of translation of materials into Welsh medium. And there is, through the common model at the moment—and this is a model that is common between England and Wales—a reliance on commercial publishers to provide textbooks. Now, that's something that probably needs to be looked at in the future in terms of potential different models for how that might be achieved and also, potentially, around a paradigm shift in what's expected of those materials. So, I think that sets out Qualification Wales's position in particular.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Gareth.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. The WJEC does provide what's required in a regulatory sense, and there are two things there—the specification, which tends to be very comprehensive in providing guidance in terms of drawing up a programme of teaching, and also exemplar assessments, which include marking, and those go to the regulator before they are published. So, those samples go to the regulator. The WJEC also do invest a great deal in resources that we produce digitally in both languages simultaneously. Each new course has substantial teaching guidance, which includes a great deal of useful information for teachers and pupils. And we run a professional development programme for teachers that is free of charge when courses are new, and then annually there is some charge for those events. They are face-to-face events, or, increasingly, they are webinars. The WJEC also encourages publishers to take an interest in providing textbooks. We don't have a commercial agreement with publishers. Indeed, the regulations as they stand in Wales, Northern Ireland and England preclude examination bodies from having commercial links with providers of textbooks, but that is something that emerges from the three-nation regime that existed in terms of qualifications. So, that is one point that we noted as something that needs to be considered for Wales as we move forward, whether it would be possible—. As we are not talking about examination boards competing with each other in Wales for GCSE and A-levels, in passing, that is something that I would want to suggest may deserve review. We encourage publishers to take an interest. At the moment, these tend to be England-based—Hodder Education and Illuminate Education, for example—and then the Welsh Government does provide funding to the WJEC to support the process of providing Welsh-language versions for those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers' time in Wales?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources? Another interesting question, I think, is—. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in that video—they are available in English only. Therefore, I think another interesting question is: can we discover what those additional resources are that are worth translating? And, certainly, it would be very unfortunate if there were a dozen Welsh-medium schools, for example, translating material from the same website independently of each other. If there are a few websites, or a few case studies, in this big external digital world that are worth translating, shouldn't we able to source those early? Because I don't think it's a good use of teachers' time. But I also think that the use of both languages is an interesting one. What is the vision in terms of teaching in a Welsh-medium class, in particular, perhaps, in the A-level classes? I'm sure that some teachers feel that there is a way of enriching the teaching by referring to terms in both languages, as well as explaining those terms in their own language. But the impression I got from the video was that there was quite a lot of mechanical translating happening, and perhaps there is a need to understand more of the context.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Llyr on this.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just to pick up on your point on the additional materials, whose role would it be to asses this or to take that overview, and then to respond to the demand?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Mike, in the WJEC, has conversations about resources in the team he's part of.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Yes. That is extremely important—to identify, as Gareth has just said, those materials that need to be translated, and not everything needs to. We've made a lot of use recently of speaking with teachers and the consortia, and ensuring then that we are focusing on those things that need that attention.",
"speaker": "Mike Ebbsworth"
},
{
"content": "But would you—? The question I'm asking is: would you still see that as a core part of your work, although it's not necessarily essential in terms of the provision that you're required to provide?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we invest substantially from the WJEC budget into digital resources. So, through the types of conversations that Mike mentioned, in terms of identifying needs, deciding on priorities with teachers in individual subject areas, that can provide very useful information for us in terms of prioritisation. Of course, the digital packages that we create are already based on conversations with teachers.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "So, it's already happening to a certain extent.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, yes, but we could always go a step further.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "And do we need further resources for that?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's an interesting question. The WJEC is doing as much as we can—",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Why isn't it happening to the extent that it needs to happen, then?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "One can always do more, of course. The WJEC is trying to use its budget prudently, and most of our funding comes from payments made by schools and colleges in terms of taking assessments. So, we do have a budget, but it's not a bottomless pit. So, we do need to make choices within the substantial budget we have in terms of the work that Mike is undertaking.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "There is a need to be careful as well in identifying resources and needs, and that those are suited towards the requirements. Quite often a teacher—and I've been a teacher myself—has this idea that there is a need to have everything. But, certainly, that's not always the case. Quite often, the focus is on different things. There has been a move towards different means of assessment over recent years, and we've moved our resources towards that to meet the needs of teachers on how to undertake that sort of assessment.",
"speaker": "Mike Ebbsworth"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Did you want to come in on any of this?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm just going to say one thing. Teachers will want to be creative in the use of resources, and, in doing that, they'll potentially want to adapt resources from either language. I think one of the things that we would be quite keen to try and establish moving forward is what is the common core that should by default be available bilingually, and then what sits around that that would be for schools to use creatively and adapt. And what I wouldn't want to see is a default position where all materials were bilingual—a wide range of resources that might be created from all sorts of diverse, different channels—because that may inhibit the creation of some of those materials that may be more creative, which could then be used by teachers as they see appropriate. But I think it is reasonable to expect for that core, common body of knowledge to be available bilingually by default, and for teachers not to have to spend time translating that.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. A final question from me, then. The £500,000 funding for Welsh-medium educational resource that's in the budget for 2018-19—are you able to share any information with the committee as to how that's going to be spent?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Tthe WJEC has some information in terms of that budget. It is a Welsh Government budget, and they have annual discussions with us as to what resources we are likely to be working on along with publishers, and where we would like to make a claim against that grant to pay for the editorial and translation costs that we will have incurred. Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the £500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, Mike?",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.",
"speaker": "Mike Ebbsworth"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Darren Millar.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "This is a huge mess, isn't it? It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned—both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they need to learn, and swot up on, in advance of exams?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that the evidence is that different learners see their requirements differently. And I agree that a textbook is part of the picture that should be available. But I think the evidence also shows that not every young person will use them; perhaps the teacher uses them. There is an emphasis, for example, from one pupil there, on that traditional model of revision, namely class notes and his own revision notes, but that he personally also wanted a textbook. So, certainly, the content of a textbook is going to be important, and that that's available in some form or other. It was very interesting to know, for example, that when he was describing the traditional model of revision, he felt that he'd had quite a lot of the content of the textbook through the classroom notes. Much of that digital content, of course, corresponds to the content areas of a textbook, but it's just in a different form. But, in general, there should be a textbook. And some of our frustration as well is that the timetables of some individual publishers don't always get us to the point where there is a textbook available in time. That doesn't happen so often in English medium, but we know about that gap in time in the Welsh provision.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's happened fairly regularly in the English-medium textbook world, hasn't it? My daughter—she featured in that video—has got her RS qualifications coming up, and she only had a textbook over the Easter period. I mean, it's completely unacceptable. And many others in that video are also being affected. You mentioned digital resources; not everybody's got access to digital resources in their own homes, even, in Wales. So, aren't we giving a significant disadvantage to those learners who might need the traditional 'swotting up from a textbook' method of revision and benefit from that?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "We do ensure that those digital resources include things that the teachers can also print. Most of these are resources for teachers so that the teachers can adapt them for their own use, to suit the learners who are in front of them at any given time. But certainly there are materials there. If there are activities, then those activities can be printed off and handed to pupils so that they can take them home. So, I would be sceptical about that comment. We are thinking of the totality, ultimately.",
"speaker": "Mike Ebbsworth"
},
{
"content": "I think you're right that the availability of technology is an important part of this big picture. The young people talk about websites and blogs, and we're talking about digital resources, so being able to reach those resources, I think, is vital in Wales. It's interesting to note two contradictory remarks from the teaching associations in the letters. One praises what's available digitally, whereas another teaching organisation sees this as more work for teachers. As Mike said, we've created those resources that can be adapted. One teaching organisation says that it just creates more work, while another organisation says that the digital resource is something that's very valuable. Of course, the headteacher at the end was praising the fact that, in a situation of crisis or unacceptable timetables, we have succeeded in creating some resources that will be in the textbook later, but available digitally at an early stage. But I agree with your core comment that technology is vital, and access to that, and also the content of a textbook in some form is vital as well.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Mr Blaker, you would agree that a textbook should be an essential core piece of the resource pack available for each qualification.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we wouldn't want to underplay the desirability of textbooks, recognising that different learners have different learning styles and may look to different resources. I think what I'd like to raise is a wider concern about textbooks in their current model, which is very much around the fact that every time there's a change in a specification, there's a new textbook, which is designed around that specification and is endorsed by an awarding body, which is a nice model for a publisher, because every time there's a change, there's an opportunity for a new textbook. There are two concerns that I'd like to raise on that. First, the focus on teaching and learning. Ofsted and also Estyn have raised concerns about the focus in teaching on teaching to the test as a common concern in both nations. I have a concern that having a textbook that is endorsed by the awarding body and is designed specifically around that specification may lead to some of that tendency. And also, there's the sustainability of the model. We know that we're about to go into another round of reforms associated with the curriculum change. That's going to lead to another round of textbooks that may need to be focused on qualifications. I think I'd much rather see that textbooks are seen as a curriculum resource that are broader than, perhaps, the model of endorsement and the current model of publication suggest.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "So, you don't think that a textbook for each subject should be a core resource for pupils who are learning in advance of examinations.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I'd just like to pick you up on that. I think a textbook for each subject is absolutely an essential part of the broad range of resources that you'd want to see available for people to choose what they prefer, but on a subject, perhaps, rather than a specific specification, because I think there's a tendency to conflate the two, and much of the underlying content that is assessed in one specification, or a new updated specification, will remain unchanged. It is true that there may be a different focus or emphasis, or a different style of questioning, but that can be picked up more nimbly through supplementary digital resources, for example, which can highlight that change, particularly to a teacher, so that they can shape their lesson planning around that. What we are looking at here are reformed GCSEs and reformed A-levels in subjects that are well-established, traditional subjects, and so whilst it is not necessarily the ideal, I think it's important to remember that there is already a good deal of pre-existing resources, including textbooks, out there in schools already. We're not for a moment saying that that is the situation that we would want everybody to be in. I think it might be preferable if the textbook was perfectly bespoke to the course and didn't contain any extraneous material, but that perhaps is an ideal picture and I think we do need to remember that there are already many resources out there that are available to teachers and to students.",
"speaker": "Emyr George"
},
{
"content": "But of course, unlike their peers in perhaps other parts of the UK, we have teachers who are having to go meticulously through some of these other resources that might be available to determine whether they're appropriate for use in the classroom, given that the specification is different in terms of the new qualifications. Can I just ask you about the disadvantage that some learners might face as a result of the lack of textbooks? Mr Blaker, I note that you sought to reassure the committee in some of your opening remarks about the fact that equivalent outcomes are what you aim to achieve in discussion with the WJEC in terms of the outcome of assessments, and I think that that's a very positive thing. But, how do you differentiate between the different learning styles of individual students who are in that cohort to ensure that the disadvantage that one faces because they're somebody who relies particularly heavily on textbook-type learning, traditional sort of swotting up for examinations, versus someone who is much more digitally aware and able to use digital resources—? How do you make sure that it's fair to the cohort as a whole, while still enabling some of these individuals for whom textbooks are important not to face disadvantage within that cohort?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "The systems that are in place are very much around making sure that awarding is fair across the whole cohort. It's very difficult—in fact, it would be impossible—to unpick all of the different factors that might affect performance, because you could well have a textbook that's been available for some time, it may be somebody's preferred leaning style to use a textbook, but did they use that textbook effectively? You know, did they open it in revision or did they not open it in revision? So, there are so many different factors that can affect individual performance. I think it's impossible to unpick a particular aspect like the availability of resources. Motivation would be one thing, an individual learner's motivation in the subject. The biggest input would be the quality of teaching. I think evidence has been provided to you by the regional consortia, which we saw yesterday. They particularly wanted to stress this point I think; that the quality of teaching is probably the most dominant and the most important factor in relation to a learner's ultimate performance in the examination.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "I understand that, but you also understand that someone who doesn't have the resources that they feel are best suited to them face some element of a greater disadvantage than others for whom, perhaps, textbooks are less important.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I think also, perhaps, related to that, it is important to mention digital literacy here. Every young person in Wales, I would hope, taking GCSE or A-level, should have that digital literacy in order to source the valuable materials available—that they should have those skills. Then, they have the choice whether they go down the digital route, or do they do as Mike suggested—much of the digital material can be printed—or do they then turn to textbooks, in the hope that those would be available? That would then allow for a pupil's personal learning choice to be reflected. It's also important for teachers to confirm that their ways of teaching do support these alternative approaches taken by pupils. Not every pupil will choose to learn or revise in exactly the same way. So, the flexibility for the pupil is very important, I think.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "I understand that, but I've got people in my constituency who haven't even got a broadband link at home, so there's a digital disadvantage as well. Can I just ask you about the reason why this has taking so long to sort out? It was back in 2015 that concerns were first raised about the availability of textbooks in both English and Welsh for the new qualifications. We're three years on, what on earth has been happening in the interim and why is it taking so long? If you've got these resources digitally, why can't they just be compounded into textbooks pretty straightforwardly?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the main reason for that is that there are three series of reforms of qualifications that have happened. There were some in 2015, other subjects in 2016, and other subjects in 2017. Those three cycles of reform have all suffered from the short timetable that was between approving a qualification and publishers being able to start the work. Perhaps an interesting comparison would be a subject being taught for the first time in 2015—where that subject has reached now in terms of resources. I would hope that each one of those subjects have more available now in terms of resources, and therefore we are adding each year—not textbooks but digital resources. There are more past papers available, of course. We are working on sample work at the request of teachers. So, every subject is moving on over a period of time of five to six years while that specification is being studied. But those same difficulties have, unfortunately, affected 2015 subjects and 2017 subjects, and that's why we're discussing the same thing in 2018.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "So, it's the scale of the challenge and the volume of the work?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "I think Gareth, in the evidence that he has provided to the committee previously, has said about the timeline, the schedule, for reforms. Now, that's a schedule that we inherited and was largely dominated by the schedule for reforms in England. Now that we've reached a point of divergence in GCSEs and A-levels, between England and Wales, it gives us much more agency in the future to establish a timeline that doesn't place the pressures on the system. So, Gareth has quite rightly pointed out that there are three waves of reforms, but the pressures that build up in the first wave are consequential onto the next wave and the wave after that. So, the whole system has been pressured both from a regulatory perspective of the approval process, the awarding body preparing its submissions to use, and then system readiness thereafter.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "That timeline was obviously set by the Welsh Government. I assume that advice was given by WJEC and Qualifications Wales and your predecessor organisation to the Welsh Government at that time protesting about the timescale that you were being expected to abide by.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and similarly in England, the examination boards working in England would have provided the same advice to the Government there. And, of course, the Welsh Government programme was associated with the reform programme in England, in particularly for those A-level subjects, where there was a strong influence from the universities across the UK in terms of what they wanted to see differently in the A-level subjects. So, England and Wales have run on a very short timetable common to both countries, and I would say that every exam board and every publisher has seen this very challenging in Wales and England. But our advice is that there is a real need for between 18 months and two years from completing a specification that has been approved, then being able to work with teachers on what their needs and requirements will be, thinking about what the teaching programme will be, and then starting to work with publishers and get resources available—ideally, with a year of preparation then for the teacher before they start teaching. So, as they will know what resources will be available, we'll be able to discuss the use of those resources in our professional development programmes, and then that timeline is convenient for everybody.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Darren, I've got to bring Llyr in now.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Estyn, NAHT, UCAC, NASUWT, WJEC and Qualifications Wales have pointed to the way in which the Government has managed the reforms that have been happening over the past few years as one of the things that has led to some of these difficulties. You mentioned the fact that they come wave upon wave. Well, what about the tsunami of curriculum reform that we're currently facing? That is, how confident can we be that the situation won't deteriorate as the new curriculum is introduced—rather than improve?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "That is a very key question, isn't it? We have started to discuss this, specifically in particular in a forum that includes publishers in Wales, with the Welsh Government around the table and Qualifications Wales around the table. I think one of the very interesting questions and important questions is: what will the nature of the information available in April 2019 be in terms of the new curriculum? At what level of detail will it be? To what extent will it be adapted again after April 2019? Is it detailed enough, really, for teachers to start discussing their programmes of teaching, and that we then still have a role with publishers, even though this is for this curriculum and not for qualifications? WJEC has a tradition of publishing resources over the key stages and other key stages as well. I think there is a need to discuss the implications of the timetable as it starts to appear, because there is a need to start teaching the new curriculum in September 2022. If we're talking about a year of preparation, that brings us back to September 2021. If we're talking about working on resources available for that preparation year, we're talking about September 2020. So, the timetable does appear already tight, particularly if there's something that's not quite certain about that curriculum statement in 2019, and that there is a lot of work to turn that into teaching programmes. So, I think it is a key question, and I can't be confident at the moment that this is going to work.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Did you want to come in, Philip?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think one of the big differences is it's a tsunami we can see coming. So, young people will be assessed for the first time, assuming linear exams, in the summer 2027, which is some way away, and, actually, given the reform process historically, this is probably the most foresight we've seen of a big change like this. There is a big dependency on the curriculum and the curriculum being described in such a way that we can relate qualifications to that curriculum, because qualifications should relate to the curriculum rather than drive the curriculum, so we do need to see something coming out of that. I think, for us, once we've seen the curriculum, and we've got better sight of it, we'll be able to plan things out. We've already started engagement with awarding bodies over the possible supply chain for these new qualifications, and, ultimately, there'll be a go/no-go decision that would need to be made, probably in 2023, which would be that if the conditions don't appear right for safe implementation, then we would make a recommendation to Welsh Government that these reforms are delayed in terms of the qualification, not in terms of the curriculum, for a year to allow the system to be able to catch up. So, we're starting to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case? We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue—clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to build their teams, and develop skills within those teams, and to have enough certainty that this is worth doing. And therefore, those are the sort of issues that we're starting a discussion on, in the hope of having a discussion in June to move that forward. Of course, Welsh Government, Qualifications Wales and other stakeholders are part of this discussion, not only WJEC, but we've been part of initiating that discussion.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Is this developing at the pace that you would like to see it developing?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I think, and there is some enthusiasm. For example, a number of publishers in Wales are within an association describing itself as Cwlwm Cyhoeddwyr Cymru. Myrddin ap Dafydd is chair of Cwlwm at the moment, and there is enthusiasm and vision, certainly. So, there's a wonderful opportunity, I think, for Wales to interpret these possibilities swiftly and then hopefully take action on them.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "And we're talking here not just about translating but developing resources, and the point, I think, is an important one around some of the evidence that we've received about the importance of developing resources naturally bilingually from the very beginning, rather than having to translate something. Because there have been comments that translations are clunky, difficult to follow and not—I'm not saying that they're not fit for purpose, but certainly don't facilitate teaching, perhaps, as easily as one would wish.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I would agee, and that begins with the authors, doesn't it? We must have the authors—",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "So, the expertise, and the same capacty with the publishers as well.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and we do want to nurture authors within Wales, particularly given that the new curriculum has to do justice to a Welsh dimension within the curriculum in so many different subjects. So, we need authors who can be developed, and authors who would be willing to work with the publishers. That's a very specific theme within one of the ideas of the seminars with publishers.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Would that market be viable without any sort of subsidy, if it were to develop bilingually? Or do we have to accept that they have to have an element of public subsidy?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Our view in the WJEC is that subsidy will be necessary. But we could rethink the model for the subsidy, perhaps. At the moment, the subsidy is described as a subsidy for the Welsh-medium version. Why not rethink that and think of a subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the Welsh curriculum? And perhaps we would need a little more funding for that. But there will be organisations such as the WJEC who will still be interested in contributing, because we are a charity, and within our mission is investment in various things that supports education in Wales.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "But in terms of where we are now, resources have to be translated. I struggle at times to understand why it takes so much time to translate a resource. I would like to know better, perhaps, what the main barriers are in that sense. But also, how long is acceptable to wait for a translation, in your view?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "We've done a great deal of work recently, over recent years, to ensure that that delay between having an English version and a Welsh version is reduced. We are highly aware of the fact that the best-case scenario is that the Welsh and the English are available simultaneously. In those terms, we've taken huge steps forward with the publishers that we've named this morning, so that we have discussed translation as the textbook is being produced. There is a risk there, of course. The nature of books is that the author may change his or her mind, or edit as he or she is writing. Well, with that model, we would have to ensure that we approved as we moved forward, chapter by chapter perhaps, so that there would be no changes to be made from then on. At the end of the process, then, the publishers in England have agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version is available, and then to publish both simultaneously. Unless that timetable is followed throughout the process, there are inherent risks in that process, of course, as I've mentioned in terms of translation as we author materials, and in ensuring that that timetable is stuck to.",
"speaker": "Mike Ebbsworth"
},
{
"content": "And perhaps there is a need to emphasise that the process is translation and editing as a package, and that sometimes the same amount of time goes on the editing, how the Welsh works in terms of diagrams and things that aren't text necessarily—pictures and so forth. So, eight weeks, I think, is the time that we've succeeded in agreeing with the publishers so that we can turn around the Welsh version in that period of time.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Darren.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I just want to ask about this eight-week delay. So, you’re telling us, Mr Ebbsworth, that the WJEC has agreed with Hodder and Illuminate that, in future, even if an English textbook is available for publication, and it’s already late, you will further delay the availability of that textbook so that it can be published on the same day as the Welsh-medium textbook?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "We can only work on those books that are in the process of being developed. Naturally, if something is late in English, then that timetable would be affected in terms of a decision that will ultimately have to be taken. But that's the hope: that when new textbooks are produced in English and authored in English, we would look at that eight-week period as a turnaround.",
"speaker": "Mike Ebbsworth"
},
{
"content": "I understand the point that you made earlier about the chapter-by-chapter approach, which seems much more equitable. But to suggest that you will delay books that could be available for students and could be available for teachers to be able to access by two months because you haven't got the systems in place to be able to produce them on the same day, seems to be wholly inappropriate. Can I ask, also, why on earth it isn't possible to produce Welsh-medium textbooks first and then translate them to English on occasions?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "We're entirely open to that and to that sort of model.",
"speaker": "Mike Ebbsworth"
},
{
"content": "So, why has that never ever been done?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, of course, it would happen with subjects that stem from Wales, but I think the problem is that we work with publishers and those publishers and their authors, therefore, tend to work through the medium of English. But, just to be clear, this idea of delaying an English version is something that the Welsh Government is eager for us to experiment with, but not with textbooks that are already late. They are within the new programme of textbooks that are contained within the grant that you mentioned of £500,000. So, in a way, this is an experiment and the Welsh Government wants to look at this as one way of responding to the complaint that there are different timetables available.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "So, you're being forced to do this by the Welsh Government, rather than—",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we've agreed to do it in discussion with them.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "So, are you happy with that approach?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as long as the textbook isn't late in the first place, then yes; it's worth trying. There is a challenge on the eight weeks, there is a challenge in the publisher sticking to the timetable in terms of the English version first of all, but we are willing to use this as a test bed, and we're working on two specific textbooks on this.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "I think the committee is struggling with this idea, so what do you understand to be the rationale behind that, then? Is it that both sets of pupils should be equally disadvantaged?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, no, in a way, it uses the same principle as we have regarding our use of digital resources. With the digital materials, the intention is that things are available in time and that they're available in both languages at the same time. So, trying to imitate that with printed text is what we're trying to do, but not with texts that are already late. So, if these books keep to the timetable, then they will be available in time in both languages, but that the English version has stayed before going out on the shelves.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "So, that's to say that the English version will be completed eight weeks beforehand so that you have eight weeks for translation.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, ultimately, I may have used the wrong words in saying that we're holding the English back. The English version would still be in the process, just as the Welsh version would be, and then they would catch up as they approach the date for publication and printing. There is an element of editing the English as well as the Welsh and that would happen in that eight-week period. So, a draft form might be available, and we do ensure that our draft versions are available on our secure website as soon as possible, but then that has to be held up before publication.",
"speaker": "Mike Ebbsworth"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. John.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just on that, Chair, it's nonetheless the case, as we've heard, I think, and as the letter to the committee from Kirsty Williams has made clear, that there might be a situation where the English-language version of a textbook could be made available, but it isn't made available because there isn't a Welsh-language version. And, as the Chair said, is that about putting those students in Wales on the same footing, and if so, how does that relate to the fact that these students, including those who could have had earlier access to the English-language version, are competing with students over the border, as we heard on the video earlier, for those precious university places? Doesn't it place the English-language student using the English-language version at a potential disadvantage, compared to students over the border?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I think this is a point for Qualifications Wales to a certain extent, but applicants for qualifications in Wales are assessed as a national cohort, if truth be told, so, each piece of information we have on the standards is evaluated for that national cohort. The standards stem from the three-nation system. So, in discussion with Qualifications Wales, we ensure that there is no disadvantage to any cohort in Wales in any subject, be that because of a textbook being unavailable or for any other reason.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Certainly, from a comparable outcomes perspective, the fewer differences that there are that are differential—. So, the idea of textbooks being available in English and Welsh at different times could potentially create another dimension in terms of disparity. So, if we're looking at it strictly speaking from a comparable outcomes perspective, it makes the awarding easier if everybody's on a common playing field. It's worth remembering—we provided some evidence in our original letter particularly looking at religious studies on the basis that religious studies was a subject that had been mentioned. This subject has already been awarded at AS-level last year, so it has gone through an award and will go through the full A-level award this year. The comparable outcomes approach did protect those learners last year, in the absence of a textbook, and we saw stability in the results that came out of the cohort level. Similarly, with other subjects that have gone through reforms, we've seen it with the GCSEs that were awarded last year, ASs that were awarded last year and A-levels that were awarded last year: we saw good comparability year on year.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Go on then, Darren. Is that okay, John?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just a very brief follow-up on that, at the cohort level, yes, you suggest that there is some evidence that students were protected, but what you don't know and can't tell, because you're not able to drill down to the individual student level, is whether children, young people, were disadvantaged as a result of their learning style being more textbook orientated than that of their peers.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I guess we're in a situation where there's no evidence either way that that—",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "The absence of evidence doesn't mean that it didn't happen.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "No, but there is no evidence to suggest that. We have no positive evidence to suggest that.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think you've seen plenty of evidence about the stress that it's causing, and the concern that learners have about their outcomes. I think it would be very interesting, actually, to take some teacher assessments and expected grades and compare those to the actual grade outcomes. Is that something that Qualifications Wales could do on a sample basis?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Historically, that sort of evidence has been very unreliable. Gareth would probably have a stronger view on that than me. Predicted grades used to be provided. Certainly, back in my day at an awarding body they were provided, and there tended to be a very low correlation between the predicted grade and the actual achieved grade. I don't know if you've got anything on that, Gareth.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "No, we agree with you that the comparisons are not that reliable, because there are so many factors. But I think, at the end of the day, what we see is, yes, I agree there is evidence of stress, but I think there's also evidence of young people and their teachers really using the available resources and the available skills in approaching revision and preparation, and tending to do that very well. That's the evidence that we've got, for example, in the AS religious studies last year, that the cohort did extremely well in fact. We can't disagree that there's evidence of stress, but I think we can also point towards resilience and excellent approaches to drawing together the various sources that they've got: classroom notes, revision notes, as they mentioned, and the various other materials that they referred to.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Okay. John.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Coming back to the effect of the lack of resources, we heard on the video, as you've just mentioned, Gareth, that pupils were experiencing a lot of stress and anxiety, and it affected their well-being in terms of their perception that they might be disadvantaged by the lack of resources, as we discussed. We know exam time is very, very stressful—I'm sure all of us would agree with that—in general, without any additional problems or perceptions of problems. So, with that sort of background, would you accept then that some students have been negatively affected by the lack of suitable support materials for general qualifications? I know we've discussed this in terms of it being difficult, perhaps, to show cause and effect, but I think most people watching that video would clearly come to the view that some students have been negatively impacted. Would you accept that?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I'd have to agree. There is evidence of their concern, isn't there? But as Philip said, what we don't have is evidence that that anxiety then has an impact on their attainment, because there are so many factors, there are so many different kinds of resources that they've referred to—even those who want to see textbooks, they're also talking about so many other materials that are available to them. Of course, it's also clear that they are conscientious young people who have worked hard, so you have a picture there of young people who are concerned, yes, and as you've said, examinations are a stressful time in general, but they are also young people who are doing their level best, and usually do get the results that they have worked for. That's the evidence that we have: the results tend to be achieved.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Coming back again to matters that we've already discussed, but just to put to you in a fairly focused way, would you accept that it isn't fair that some pupils are not having the support material that others are having, depending on whether their particular subject is involved and the language that they're studying through? Would you accept that that is a basic unfairness in the system as it currently exists?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Ideally, resources, digital accessibility and digital literacy should be available for every pupil on an equal basis. But I think perhaps if we analysed this in much detail, different individuals would be able to say, 'There are different types of unfairness.' You referred earlier to the digital inequalities. Is there an economic inequality? There is some evidence from the teaching unions that suggests that not every school is in the same situation as each other in terms of buying the resources that are available. So, I think your question drives at a very important point: what sort of inequality could be having an impact on young people in terms of their achievement during their school time? Ideally, each one of those elements of potential inequality should be levelled. So, I don't think I can go any further than acknowledging that any inequality is unfair, but there are so many different kinds and the textbook is not the only one, and therefore we're not going to be able to analyse the impact of that on its own.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Could I put to you, finally then, what Estyn have said about reported delays in the production and distribution of educational resources such as textbooks, marking criteria and specimen papers, that that delay has impeded the ability of teachers to plan adequately, and that this effect on their ability to plan adequately is very likely to have had an impact on pupils' achievement? Would you accept that?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "It's interesting—they link three quite different things there, don't they? We've discussed the textbooks in some detail. When they refer to sample assessments, we have to provide those within the regulatory time frame, and they have to be approved. So, in every subject there are sample assessments and marking schemes, and they are statutorily available, in a way. When they talk about exemplars, there are different interpretations of that. One request that we receive often from schools is for exemplars in terms of the work of pupils that has been assessed and marked by us. Of course, they're not available until the young people have taken those exams for the very first time. We can make them available digitally, and through various other methods. But in some subjects the demand has been so strong that we have worked with schools in order to ensure that work is produced by pupils before that first examination, is marked by us, and is then made available. So, we can respond to that demand when it arises. I would like to have a conversation with Estyn, indeed, to interpret on a more detailed level some of the things that they refer to.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "May I offer a comment on that quote from Estyn? They talk about a reduction in attainment and that, to some extent, brings us back to the point in terms of the comparable outcomes method that we're talking about. That method is based on research and evidence that says that in a period of change to an exam or qualification, we know that performance in an exam can fall, and that is due to a number of different factors. Teachers aren't as familiar with the specification and the requirements of the exam. There are fewer past assessment resources available; there aren't any past papers, for example. Certainly, knowing that you're the first to sit that exam perhaps raises your concerns about that examination, and examinations are a matter of concern already. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to differentiate between those factors, but what we know on the whole is that they come together to have an impact on pupils' performance in an exam, and that's why, when it comes to awarding qualifications for the first time and looking at the grades, we look very carefully at what that the mark means in terms of the grade in order to try as best as we can, on the level of the whole national cohort, to eliminate as much unfairness as possible because they are the first cohort to sit the exam.",
"speaker": "Emyr George"
},
{
"content": "Could I just make a brief comment on the sample assessments? Now, interestingly, when the English, Welsh, maths, and maths and numeracy GCSEs were new, the Welsh Government were very eager that we invest in more sample assessment materials. We had to produce one for the regulator, but they wanted to see us produce far more, and we did that. But there are risks inherent in that, too. If we create more and more sample assessments, then does that create more risk of teaching to the test? And every time we produce one of these, of course, we are using robust assessment ideas, and they're out there to be used for test purposes. So, we need to be careful that we don't weaken the real assessment by providing too many of the examiners' good ideas in the sample material. So, it's an interesting theme, but it would be interesting to have a further conversation with Estyn on that.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "I just wanted to say, looking towards—. Reforms always throw up issues like this. It's almost an inevitability of any change that there will be impact. I think what we need to do is we need to think about the future reforms, particularly knowing that we've got some on the radar already, and to think about what this paradigm is and how we can isolate some of these factors in the future. So, if we look at resources and if we look particularly at textbooks as being a curriculum resource, rather than a qualification resource, I think we can change the timeline to which some of those materials are produced. So, going back to when I studied my A-levels in the 1980s, there was this common body of knowledge that was an A-level textbook in biology that wasn't focused around an individual awarding body. When we talked to unions about this on Monday, they said, 'Yes, when we used to teach many years ago, there were curriculum resources like that, and then when a particular topic or a particular area of content dropped out of the qualification, we either did or didn't teach it according to whether it was in the curriculum'. That's a little bit worrying by virtue of the fact there might have been a component of that subject that didn't get taught because it was no longer in the text, despite the fact that it was in the common body of knowledge. But I think if we can shift this paradigm—and I would really like to a shift in the paradigm for resources particularly, away from the focus on the qualification and into more of a focus on the curriculum—then that provides an opportunity for, I would suggest, a much healthier model in the future. There are various ways of doing that. In the United States, for example, there are some states within the United States that produce a state textbook. Now, that can have issues, particularly if it's politically orientated—so, if politicians are seen to have a strong influence in the content that's taught. But if there is independence in that state model, then I think that can be quite strong model. Equally, if you look at somewhere like Hong Kong, they've actually tried to de-emphasise textbooks. So, Hong Kong, which is a very high-performing jurisdiction, is trying to move away from that model in the future.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Could I just add very, very briefly—",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Very briefly, because I want to bring Hefin in.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I know that, in our letter to you, we emphasised that this is not just to do with the body of knowledge. The assessment objectives have shifted in many subjects towards analysis and evaluation. So, therefore, we really do need resources that support that way of working, and I'm sure that lots of the young people we've heard from—what they're really doing in their revision is actually not just studying the content, but thinking about how they respond analytically and evaluatively. In fact, an interesting question for us as an awarding body to debate with the qualifications regulator, maybe, is whether some of the content should actually be able to be taken into the assessment hall. Do young people need to remember all these terms and their precise definitions, sometimes in both languages if they've learnt it in that way? Shouldn't some of the reference material be more and more available in the assessment arena? And then you are really getting towards analysis and interpretation and evaluation.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I want to welcome these particular comments, because having come from a higher education background, what I've tried to deliver in my courses are textbook-free modules, where you're relying on academic journal articles and you're piecing together the story yourself, based on the curriculum you develop yourself. So, curriculum-focused resources are very welcome. I fear that students who are nurtured on a textbook diet, when they go to university, they are not expected to repeat what's in the textbook; they're expected to do exactly as Gareth says and analyse and combine information into a discursive argument. So, therefore, I'm interested to know how you've worked with higher education to develop that approach. I also welcome what you've just said too.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I ask for brief answers, please?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, well some of the people who provide ideas into our digital resources certainly are either teachers who are very well aware of that progression to HE and therefore what their learners want or, in some cases, they are HE people themselves. We do draw on a body of expertise, and we are more than willing to emphasise the importance of that approach to the support resources we provide.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "I think the difficulty and the difference is that, at HE level, the kind of journal articles that are available are probably not consumable at GCSE level. That's part of the problem you have with that approach.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. And I think, interestingly—I know we've pointed towards some of our religious studies resources as examples—I think some of the websites we point to are quite ambitious. They would be described as scholarly, and I think some of the young people on the video made that point, didn't they—that they need to engage with that material to understand some themes? But we need to assist them in doing so. We need to almost make those scholarly items that are worth including in their curriculum accessible and user friendly for them at their point of learning.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Philip.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "It was just one point. We recently published a report on the Welsh baccalaureate and skills challenge certificate, and I think it's relevant to pull in at this point that the independent study that pupils would be expected to do through the skills challenge certificate in doing their project work is really designed to try and draw out some of those skills that would be relevant in higher education. Through the reforms that we are starting to think about for the skills challenge certificate, there's a real opportunity to start honing some of those skills, particularly at the advanced level bacc, to make people really HE-ready so that they're better able to engage with that different style of learning. So, I think there's a huge opportunity that shouldn't be diminished within the advanced Welsh bacc.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Last questions from Mark then.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Gareth, can I just put to you—? On the Estyn criticism, I think you've answered one aspect of their criticism that WJEC did not make as many sample assessment materials available as schools would have liked early on in the reform process, and I understand your position there, but they went on and said, 'At times the sample assessment materials were provided with incorrect mark schemes' and also, 'It would be helpful if the WJEC ensure that all necessary resources were made available before the start date of each qualification.' Do you have a response to those points?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Again, probably, I'd like a conversation with them about any problems with the specimen assessments and their mark schemes, because if they are the statutory regulatory ones they would have gone through Philip's team as well or his Welsh Government predecessors as regulators, depending on which qualifications they were. Obviously, we need to be spot-on with those. Very occasionally, somebody will identify an error, and obviously we then correct them, because these are available digitally online. So, if there is a problem, we want to hear about it and then we can correct it. But, yes, I agree with their fundamental premise, that ideally the whole package of resources should be available before teaching starts, including, as we mentioned earlier, so we can draw on that set of resources in the events we run as WJEC free of charge for teachers leading up to the first teaching. We need that information ourselves as well so we can talk about the use of these valuable resources in an appropriate pedagogical context in that preparatory year. So, the ideal is that everything is there 12 months ahead.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "So, what mechanism do you have for picking up on this type of criticisms from Estyn and having that conversation with them? Has that not happened?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "We have met with Estyn a couple of times recently, actually—once when they were beginning their review of the key stage 4 qualifications that had been in place for two years and a bit, and also when they were planning a review of some of the A-level work. Because we do have regular meetings with them, we will have an opportunity to explore their comments here I'm sure.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Looking at the structure and the relationship between Qualifications Wales and the WJEC—. I understand in the model in England—you've got Ofqual, the regulator, and you have various competing exam boards, some I think with for-profit motivation. We don't have that in Wales; there is a sole regulator and a single, dominant examination board. Does that mean that there's significant overlap and potentially cost duplication between the work of the two bodies, particularly given WJEC is a charity and seems to have many of the same objectives as you in Qualifications Wales have?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "The roles are very distinct, so I'd tell you there's no overlap. What we try and do is try and make sure that there's a good connection between the work that we do. WJEC has very clear responsibilities around the delivery of qualifications. We have a role in monitoring to ensure that those qualifications are delivered securely and fairly. I would say a strength of the Welsh model is that there is an independent regulator and a single awarding body largely, because much of the work that Ofqual would need to do in terms of its maintenance of standards is about ensuring that the competition between awarding bodies doesn't lead to what's been termed in the past as a race to the bottom in terms of standards. Now, the opportunity that we have in Wales is, where we have a single awarding body, we can have a close and good working relationship with WJEC, but guarding very strongly to make sure that we keep that regulatory distance to make sure that we preserve our role as the regulator and look at WJEC as one of our regulated bodies.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Can I make a general point? Perhaps the important opportunity in Wales is to look anew at how national and regional organisations, such as the consortia, can collaborate to make a success of the broad range of resources and CPD that will be required to support the new curriculum, and also the next set of qualifications that will be reformed. We've referred to many organisations today, but there are others. The Welsh Books Council, for example, is part of this discussion. The Learned Society of Wales is a player that wants to introduce ideas into the Welsh dimension of the curriculum. There was mention of the HE sector earlier. Teachers' associations have very specific comments to make on some of these areas. There is a great opportunity for us to come together and to have a national approach. There will be a need for some financial resource from the Welsh Government—yes, certainly—and the WJEC can provide some resources, but I think we all want to collaborate in order to ensure the success of the next round of resources.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "But doesn't that national approach and collaboration preclude the model that Philip was talking about earlier, where we had textbooks based on the curriculum, and there's that core, but that was separate from what the exam body decided to do and the textbook wasn't there for the particular exam approach? If you have a single, dominant exam board, and you have a Welsh curriculum that's developed with that board, how do you then have this separation between textbook and exam?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "So, if we look at qualification, a qualification should be based on the curriculum that's being offered, because learning should be based around the curriculum, and the role of the qualification is to measure attainment against knowledge of that curriculum—knowledge, skills and understanding, the dispositions that that curriculum is trying to develop. So, I think there are two very distinct things. Now, of course, what will inevitably happen is once the curriculum is known and developed, there will be a level of detail that comes across from what the qualification is looking for. I think what we're trying to say is, from an educational perspective, what we'd like to see is a broader focus on the curriculum and less of a narrow focus on the qualification and some of the problems that that can drive, so that, if a learner is well-versed in the curriculum and has been taught well and has acquired the knowledge, skills and dispositions that the curriculum is trying to create, they should succeed in the qualification.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "And you suggested earlier that, if need be, the qualification could be pushed back a year, but not the curriculum. Does that mean that it would be possible to teach the new curriculum while keeping the old qualification?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "It would be possible.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "But satisfactory?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Because, if we're looking at qualifications predominantly being 14 to 16, what Professor Donaldson said at the very beginning, with 'Successful Futures', was, actually, if the curriculum is preparing people better for that qualification stage, so that they're better versed as learners and better able to perform in those qualifications and we see a rise of attainment—. Ideally, you'd be in a position where you've got GCSEs that have been reformed to marry up to any change, but I don't see there being a huge problem in itself of a delay if we think that is the right thing to do. Clearly, we consider that to be a sub-optimal thing. We would much rather be in a position of having reforms, but, equally, I'd want to see any reforms delivered safely, and I wouldn't want to compromise fairness and safety of delivery of those qualifications on the basis of a timeline. But I think all too often the case is that a timeline dominates over doing what is the right thing and I think as we get further into this we'll have to really assess and keep a grip of what's the right thing to do.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Very briefly, Darren.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just on this issue of shaping the curriculum and making sure that we've got textbooks that can be used to support the delivery of the curriculum—. So, obviously, the WJEC's interested in the examinations and the qualifications. That's your role as well in terms of Qualifications Wales. So, who should be responsible for developing these curriculum resources?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, for a new model, that needs to be determined. Welsh Government has a role in curriculum at the moment. They have responsibility for curriclum and they've already started work with the seminar last year, and then drawing people together now to look at a new model for the future. I think we need to evolve that approach, and I think Welsh Government taking a lead on some of this thinking about how things might be prepared for the future is probably a good position to be in at the moment.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Are there any other models that you can point us to in terms of how these things are done elsewhere?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, there are models where you can have—. For example, in Northern Ireland, you have the regulator, the awarding body and the curriculum body all under one roof. So, you can have a position where everything is tied together as it is in Northern Ireland with the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment. Equally, if you look at somewhere like Hong Kong, you have very distinct bodies that are looking after each individual component. So, there are lots of different models that can be developed. But, of course, in Wales, and also previously in England, the qualifications regulator has also had a responsibility for curriculum. So, there has been that model in the past in Wales.",
"speaker": "Philip Blaker"
},
{
"content": "Just very briefly.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Really quickly, please.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just one thing very briefly, in terms of the WJEC. I mentioned earlier that, in the past, the WJEC has produced a fair few resources in collaboration with publishers in key stage 3 and even at primary stages. Certainly, key stage 3 is closely linked to GCSE, and, therefore, if the WJEC continues to be a player—as I hope it will—in the area of resources for GCSE and A-level, then the WJEC is also well positioned in terms of our investment in editing, translating and the use of technology to contribute to key stage 3 most certainly and perhaps even the primary stages. So, I'm sure that the WJEC would want to offer itself as a national organisation that wants to contribute as best we can in this area.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you very much. Well, we're out of time, so can I thank you very much for attending this morning and for answering all our questions? I think it's been a very useful and informative session. As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy, following the meeting. But thank you very much, again, for your attendance.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Gareth Pierce"
},
{
"content": "Item 4 is papers to note. In view of the time, can I ask whether Members are happy to note all those papers in a block? Can I just flag that I would like to return to paper to note 3, which is the letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education on minority ethnic, Gypsy, Roma and Traveller learners, when we go into private, if that's okay with Members? Item 5, then, is for me to propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_23 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"20"
]
],
"topic": "The targeting of the Pupil Development Grant whose eligibility is apparent blurring"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"37",
"53"
]
],
"topic": "The practical uses and impact of PDG"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"54",
"98"
]
],
"topic": "Looked-after children and adopted children"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"99",
"156"
]
],
"topic": "The Schools Challenge Cymru program"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"158",
"182"
]
],
"topic": "Regional consortia, Cabinet Secretary"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The conference is about an inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes in the Wales education system. First, they primarily discussed the Pupil Development Grant, its targeting, eligibility, use and impact. Then, the group discussed care of looked-after children and adopted children. They discussed the condition and impact of another student support program the Schools Challenge Cymru program and the advisory role of regional consortia, Cabinet Secretary.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty Williams, when it comes to individual interventions, those individual interventions of PDG should only be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals; but in some cases, schools may use their PDG funding to provide a universal intervention. One of the things that they've used PDG for is the focus on the concept of growth mindset in school, a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in. There are some other ways to drive the potential of talented and able children, like the example of \"a window on the world bus\" paid for by schools.",
"query": "Summarize the extent that the experts consider that the money is being targeted appropriately.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"2",
"4"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty Williams, it's probably the best that they've got at present, and will continue to have discussions with local government about whether there are different ways. Officials are working all the time in conjunction with the department in England, to understand their thinking in this area so that we are in a position to make some decisions about what a notional eligibility for free school meals will look like going forward, but before I make any decisions, I want to assure everybody that there will be a full public consultation on that.",
"query": "What do the group think of the question whether the eligibility for free school meals is the best measure?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"9",
"10"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As identified by Estyn, most schools are using this money to good effect. When PDG first started,in some schools it was spent on investing in tracking children, because they had never thought about tracking these children, they didn't have systems in place to look at the performance of these children and to have a system in place. Now they have moved from spending money on the infrastructure around support for FSM children into actual inputs in terms of teaching and learning. And they have appointed regional PDG advisers to better deploy the fund.",
"query": "How do the group think of the extent and condition that schools actually make good use of that funding of PDG?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"21",
"23"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Over the period of the last inspection report, they have seen improvements in attendance, but still need to look at again how PDG can support this particular agenda. There are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this, some schools send the staff out and create walking buses, so that they walk the children into the school. Despite these good measures, there is still a gap between the attendance of free-school-meal pupils and non-free-school-meal pupils. It gets more challenging the older the children get.",
"query": "How would the group assess the impact of PDG on attendance and subsequent engagement with education from children having free school meals?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"29",
"32"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty Williams, there is no specific answer. There's no single reason why there seems to be less resilience in this cohort of children. They think that they can't draw broad-brush conclusions. The challenge is to go into individual schools and understand what was happening in that particular school that ensured that their children did really well. They continue to have discussions with Qualifications Wales to get a better understanding of this, and in May, they'll be doing a deep dive into this particular subject.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about why children on free school meals were less resilient in the exam system last year.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"39",
"45"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The most awareness around PDG is around free school meals, and there is less awareness around the availability of PDG to support looked-after children. In the nature of the cohort, there are more children subject to free school meals than are subject to being looked after. The thinking behind that at the time was around a greater strategic deployment of that resource and to try and drive a greater impact than how it was being used previously, so the looked-after PDG is held at a regional level.",
"query": "What is the role of schools with PDG for looked-after children as compared to the regional consortia in this field?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"58",
"60"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "They believe that if they can get it right for our most vulnerable learners, they'll be getting it right for all of our learners. An emerging theme is the impact, the growing awareness and the growing numbers of children who have attachment disorder, and how schools are best able to respond to that in their children. So, vulnerable learners, regardless of their background, will benefit from having teachers who are better trained, understanding and have intervention strategies in place to be able to address that need. And this is an action applied across four regions.",
"query": "What does the group think of the EAS consortium's approach to using the looked-after and adopted PDG as part of a broader approach targeted at vulnerable learners?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"77",
"80"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty Williams, they are actively looking at whether they should try and find a way of collecting this data. They can't force parents to divulge information that is a matter for them. But there is an active discussion going on at the moment about whether they could create a dataset where people divulge this information and we can then track the children through. They can't see the educational attainment of looked-after children just being a job of education. It has to be a job of social services and the health service as well.",
"query": "What does the group discuss about the dataset on tracking adopted children?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"81",
"82"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty Williams, people should look at exclusions and also have to read across about how the whole system works, not just the PDG element of the system. 66% of looked-after learners have some additional learning need, so they can't just look at it in terms of this particular source of funding. It can't be just the job of the PDG.",
"query": "What does the group think of the exclusion rates amongst looked-after children (over six times more likely to be given a fixed-term exclusion)?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"95",
"96"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "They are looking at systems and processes, the placement of comprehensive systems of tracking and processes within the school. They are looking at the teacher quality — how can they ensure that we have got consistent strategies in place to drive up pedagogy and teacher quality in the classroom. And also, collaborative activity. One of the key themes of the national mission is a self-improving system, so collaborative working is necessary where schools are looking outside of each other, learning from best practice from other schools.",
"query": "What lessons the Government is taking from that three-year investment of Schools Challenge Cymru into the school improvement agenda?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"107",
"108"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Some of the Schools Challenge Cymru schools are making sustained improvement now that the programme has come to an end. Like the example of Tredegar, where we have seen continual improvement and moving up through the categorisation system. The challenge is for those schools that Schools Challenge Cymru didn't work for, and they haven't seen the progress of how to use the school improvement system now to continue to work with those schools . So now the focus is a whole-system approach, rather than choosing 39 schools to get that level of support. Schools Challenge Cymru would probably need about five years to really have the impact that it was intended to have.",
"query": "What is the progressing condition of the Schools Challenge Cymru?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"115",
"118"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty Williams, she expects their challenge and support advisers to be having conversations that they need to have when they are with that school, to know about how they are using their PDG, and how they're demonstrating an impact for those resources. It's a fundamental role for the challenge and support advisers in the regional consortia in their school improvement work.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion on the roles regional consortia and Cabinet Secretary should play.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"158",
"164"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams thinks that it's absolutely crucial that we track performance. Where they weren't tracking pupils at all, initial investment in PDG was used to establish these systems within schools. One of the outcomes from the schools challenge review, and one of the lessons learnt was the importance of individual tracking of pupils throughout their school career. But they can't dictate a single system.",
"query": "What does the group think of the extent they'd like to see the PDG used to track the progress of eligible pupils?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"174",
"179"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this morning's Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members who are present if they wish to declare any interests? Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our final evidence session for our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education; Steve Davies, director of the education directorate; and Ruth Conway, deputy director, support for learners division. Welcome to all of you, and thank you for your attendance and also for the paper that you've provided in advance. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions, and the first questions are from Llyr Gruffydd.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Bore da. I just want to start by asking some questions around the targeting of the pupil development grant because, clearly, we've had a lot of evidence around this apparent blurring of eligibility to an extent. I'm just wondering how comfortable you are that the money is being targeted appropriately because, clearly, it's being targeted more widely than just those eligible for free school meals, from some of the evidence we've had, but also that it seems to be predominantly focused on low-attaining frees—pupils who are eligible for free school meals.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Llyr. I think it's important to be absolutely clear that when it comes to individual interventions, those individual interventions should only be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals. But in some cases, schools may use their PDG funding to provide a universal intervention, but we would want to—in challenge advisers' discussions in schools—we'd want to have evidence that that universal intervention would have a disproportionate effect on the outcomes for children on free school meals. So, for instance, if I give you an example in your own region, Llyr: at Brynteg County Primary School in Wrexham, if you look at that primary school in Wrexham, their results for free-school-meal children at the end of their primary school period in school are equivalent to their non-free-school-meal counterparts. So, there is no differentiation in those results. One of the things that they've used their PDG for is to really focus on the concept of growth mindset in school. So, that's a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in, but what we know is that that has a disproportionate effect on those children who are on free school meals. So, if you're familiar with the concept of a growth mindset, it's about really challenging learners to think that, 'I can do things. If sometimes I fail, I pick myself up, I'm more resilient.' Now, that has been, as I said, trained to all the teachers in the school—it's an ethos for the whole school—but we have seen that the impact on the free-school-meal children has been even greater, and now they're at the same level. So, that's the important distinction. Individual intervention per child has to be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals, but sometimes a school will employ a whole-school approach to train their staff, for instance, and that, then, has to demonstrate it has a disproportionate effect on free school meals. So, growth mindset; it may be attachment disorder training for staff, for instance, where we know it's of benefit to everybody, but will have particular benefits for that cohort of students. With regard to more able and talented, you know, Llyr, that this is an area of concern for me, generally, within the Welsh education system; that we've not been particularly good at identifying, supporting and driving attainment for those children. I'm absolutely clear that PDG needs to be used for those children who are eligible to drive potential, whatever the potential of that child is, including more able and talented. And again, I'll give you an example that has been seen as good practice in Pembrokeshire: a window on the world bus, again paid for by schools. I don't know if you're aware of it.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "We've heard about that.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, you've heard about it; well, it's a really good example the window on the world. And, again, that's very much targeted at raising aspirations and giving children who are more able and talented, who are eligible for PDG, those experiences, and to really push them. So, yes, I'm absolutely clear that PDG shouldn't just be seen to be getting individuals to the average. For those children who are more able and talented, it should be used to support them—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And we all share those aspirations, I'm sure, and you pointed to examples of good practice, but of course, it's not universal, is it, so what I'm asking is: do you think that the guidance is sufficient as it is? Do you think that there's a great enough awareness of how the PDG should be used at the coalface? And also, are you confident that consortia and others have the measures in place to be able to demonstrate that it is being used properly?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, if we look at what Estyn has said about PDG, it does actually recognise that the PDG is being used to push more able and talented children, but as always with the system, Llyr, it's whether we can be sure that that is strategic and that it's happening across all of our schools. So, you're—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But not just in relation to more able and talented, I'm referring to the eligibility and the targeting.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, the eligibility. You'll be aware that, on the advice of Sir Alasdair, we have employed and appointed new PDG regional advisers, and I think their role is going to be absolutely crucial in spreading that good practice across the region, whether that's use of PDG for more able and talented, or ensuring that PDG is used in the appropriate way. So, that's there to provide strategic overall advice. And obviously, we have been very clear with regional challenge advisers, in the relationship and the conversations they're having with individual schools, that they're really challenging their schools about the use of PDG, not just in terms of targeting, but the programmes, what the money is being spent on, whether there is an evidence base for that and whether we are clear on impact. So, I think the new regional advisers are going to be crucial in enabling us to ensure more consistent practice across the regions.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, are you content that eligibility for free school meals is the best measure, really, of identifying which pupils to target?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Llyr, in the absence of anything better. I'll be the first person to say that maybe it's not as absolutely focused, but in the absence of anything different to identify a proxy for need, I think it's probably the best that we've got at present. And we will continue to have discussions with local government about whether there are different ways. We have to be mindful. Some of the policy levers in this area are out of my hands, so if we look at the roll-out of universal credit, for instance, we've got officials working very hard at the moment to try and understand what universal credit is going to mean and where we are going to be able to identify relative need, going forward. We haven't had any additional resource as a result of this, but we're very mindful that, potentially, this has an impact, going forward. And, officials are working all of the time, I must say, in conjunction with the department in England, to understand their thinking in this area so that we are in a position to make some decisions about what a notional eligibility for free school meals will look like going forward, but before I make any decisions, I want to assure everybody that there will be a full public consultation on that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Finally for now, on this issue of once a year, in January, if you're eligible for free school meals, then you're in that group for that year. We've had some quite strong evidence about how difficult that makes longer term planning for a number of schools and we've also been pointed in the direction of what's happened in England with the Ever 6, and I'm just wondering whether you're giving any thought to maybe changing that a little bit.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we're certainly giving thought to flexibility. In conversations with Alasdair, who is our independent adviser on this agenda, and individual schools, we're actively giving thought to greater flexibility and maybe longer term projections, so that schools know, for a number of years ahead, what their allocation will be. There are advantages to that system, because you could give that flexibility, you could give that long-term approach, but then, how do you make that responsive if a school suddenly has more children? We do know that, actually, the number of free-school-meal pupils is dropping. But there can be changes, you know, regional working in areas of north Wales in tourism, or maybe in other areas at Christmas time, parents are able to get a period of work. So, how can we create a more flexible system? We're actively looking at that at the moment. I wouldn't use it as an Ever 6 concept, but as an 'Ever 2' concept. We have looked at Ever 6, and I'm going to be absolutely blunt with you: to introduce an Ever 6 concept for Wales would mean in the region of identifying an additional £40 million. I'm going to be absolutely straight and blunt with you: we're not in a position at the moment to be able to identify an additional £40 million to introduce an Ever 6. But issues around flexibility, certainly, are actively under consideration. In fact, we'll be having a discussion later on today about decisions, going forward, for the next two years.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Darren on this.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "It's just a very brief point in response to the £40 million price ticket that you just put on that. That's, of course, assuming that you maintain the current level of PDG, yes? So, if you reduced the level of PDG slightly, but made it available to more individuals, if you like, via allocating it in a different way, then that £40 million price ticket wouldn't be there, would it?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I was asked a question about had I ever considered an Ever 6. We have looked at that, we've priced that up. I have to make decisions in the envelope of resources that are available to me. We could, indeed, change the way in which we allocate PDG money, but we have to do it within the envelope that is available to me, over £90 million. That's a significant level of investment, but, of course, as always, Darren, we could cut the amount per pupil, but that might have quite challenging swings in allocations. What we have done—because what I am clear on is that there was evidence to suggest that in the secondary sector, a great deal of PDG was being focused on years 10 and 11, especially year 11, in catch-up provision, and you'll be aware, because we've said this in evidence to the committee in the papers, we've set a challenge to secondary schools to say, 'Actually, the majority of your PDG allocation has to be used in key stage 3.' Now, we have to balance the needs, the moral hazard of turning round to children in years 10 and 11 and saying, 'We're not going to provide catch-up opportunities for you,' because, clearly, those children need that support. But the evidence and the advice that we're receiving is: actually, strong focus on early years, primary and key stage 3, if we get that right, should negate the need for spending money on catch-up at years 10 and 11. That's why we, in our advice to local authorities and schools, say that we want to see evidence that they're spending this money earlier on in a child's career, rather than just a scramble at year 11 to say, 'Right, we've got to get you through your exams.'",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, but have you actively considered, then, reducing the level you have?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "We've—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry—I was just going to say that one of the things is looking at the scope of the definition, and I think it's about being more flexible with the definition, rather than reducing the amount per head.",
"speaker": "Ruth Conway"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. If we can go on, then, to talk about some of the practical uses of the PDG, you write in your written paper that 'the majority of schools are making well thought out and appropriate decisions' on how to use it. But Estyn reported that only two thirds of primary and secondary schools make effective use of the PDG. Given that we've had it now for six years, would you not have expected there to be a higher level of schools actually making good use of that funding?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, to flip it on its head, the vast majority of schools, as identified by Estyn, are using this money to good effect. So, that's the way I like to see it—that the vast majority of schools are doing well. What Estyn has also indicated is the intrinsic link here to leadership within individual schools, and as you'll be aware, leadership, improving capacity in leadership and developing leadership talent in the Welsh education system is a key priority for me in our national mission. Of course, that's being developed in a different work stream. I think what's fair to say is that the use of PDG is evolving over time. I think we are seeing, increasingly, more and more schools understanding how best to deploy that money for best effect for students. So, if we're honest, when PDG first started, I think, in some schools it was spent on investing in tracking of children, because they'd never thought about tracking these children, they didn't have systems in place to look at the performance of these children, and to have a system in place. So we've moved now from spending money on the infrastructure around support for FSM children into actual inputs in terms of teaching and learning. We're also seeing from Estyn that, actually, in terms of money following the evidence of what we know works, Estyn says that PDG is probably the best example of schools following tried and tested and evidence-based interventions to deploy the money. But clearly we want all of this money to be deployed as well as it can be, and again we come back to the decision I've made to appoint regional PDG advisers so that we can get that better consistency of approach. We are, in the discussions that I have with the regional consortia about how they challenge individual schools on usage, looking for very clear evidence of schools using the Sutton Trust toolkit, and we could have a discussion about whether that's the right thing, because that's on my mind too. But we want to see schools demonstrating their evidence base, and if they're not, if a school isn't doing that, okay, so demonstrate to us why you've made those decisions and, crucially, what are you doing as the school to judge whether that decision is actually making a difference for your individual pupils. So, if you're moving away from tried and tested interventions, what we know works, if you're doing something different with your money, okay, you need to justify that and you need to explain how you're going to demonstrate impact. But I think what we're seeing is increasing good practice in this area as the PDG develops and as our understanding of our school-to-school working in our self-improving school system also develops. I think we're seeing better usage of the money year on year.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Llyr on this.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "You mentioned some schools will be moving from the tried-and-tested interventions, really, and I'm just wondering to what extent that evolution of use of PDG is being driven by cuts to core funding.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "No, I don't think it's being driven by cuts to core funding. I think there has been—. One of the biggest impacts of PDG has not been—well, I suppose it is the money in itself, because the money has concentrated the minds, hasn't it? So, one of the most important things that PDG has done is highlight the importance of this agenda within schools, and really raise this up in the thinking of leadership and senior management teams in our schools, and has driven a focus on scrutiny and accountability in the systems that are working with our schools. I think the changing use of PDG reflects the journeys that schools have been on, some of them from a very low base where this was not a priority for them, to better understanding, and as research and as intelligence grows over time in this area, both in Wales and outside of Wales, schools are increasingly learning to use that evidence to tailor approaches in their schools.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So you wouldn't accept at all that some of this money's being used to paper over some funding cracks from elsewhere. Because the unions and some others have told us that, whether we like it or not, there is some of that going on.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "As I said, Llyr, we're very clear about the usage that this money can be spent on in terms of individuals or universal application within schools, and that forms an important part of the checks and balances that we have in our system. Can we continue to improve, and ensure that more and more of our schools are employing best practice? Yes, we can, and as I've said, we've taken steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Mark's questions are next.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance and hopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school meals?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the last inspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are some excellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember the name of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day, and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are in the classrooms, because the teacher said, 'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step—we actually send the staff out and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, they probably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't for that proactive approach. So, we're looking again at what more we can do to support this particular agenda in terms of improving attendance, because although, again, there are examples of good practice, there is still a gap between the attendance of free-school-meal pupils and non-free-school-meal pupils. And, of course, we can have the best curriculum in the world with really high-quality teaching, but unless the children are in the classes then we're not going to make the difference for them. Whilst that differential exists, then it's going to be hard to close the attainment gap for those children.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I was actually quite shocked just reading in advance of this meeting that the proportion attending 95 per cent or more, who have pretty full attendance, was only 35 per cent for free-school-meal children at level 4, compared to 60 per cent for non-free-school-meal pupils. It still is an extraordinary difference. My colleague here showed me, I think, last week, a graph showing the link between attendance and attainment, in particular. When people were absent, a lot of the—. As I'm sure you're aware, there's a huge connection. What more can PDG do to deal with it? In the example you give I can see how a school with an awful lot of free-school-meal children could do that, but a lot of the free-school-meal children are actually in schools that don't have that high a proportion of free school meals, where it would be much more challenging to bring in that type of initiative.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, indeed, and I think it gets more challenging the older the children get. I think it's more difficult to find interventions that are successful higher up, so key stage 4. So, you can do a walking bus with little ones, can't you, but I don't suppose your average 15 or 16-year-old is going to take very kindly to that. So, you do need a different approach to that. But again, we see in Ysgol y Preseli the employment of staff to directly work with families of older children to reinforce the messages around, as you quite rightly say, the linkage between attendance and attainment, and really work with individual families to understand the barriers to attendance: what's going on in the family that is preventing that child from going to school, and what more can the school do to address those situations. But you're absolutely right; there is more that we need to do to address this particular agenda of attainment. I don't know if there's anything extra you wanted to add, Steve.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "There is also another very good example—and I take what you say about where there are small numbers—but in our secondary schools where there are significant numbers, they're investing PDG in resources like a school nurse and a school counsellor, not just to work with the children but link to other agencies on whom the children and the families are dependent to support them in terms of working with schools. So, it's something, particularly in our most challenging areas, where it cannot just be delivered within the school. So, good use of that resource is being made to employ people to support them in those wider areas.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. To what extent is PDG also used to seek to reduce the higher rates of exclusion for children entitled to free school meals?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "So, if we looked at permanent exclusions, there isn't a differential, but if we look at temporary exclusions, there we see there is a disproportionate number of children on free school meals that are subject to those exclusions. Again, I think what schools employing best practice understand is that you need a multi-agency approach to supporting that particular child. Some of those exclusions can be as a result of the need to address other issues going on in a child's life. So, this is where we come back to the committee's work, for instance, on mental health and support for children, support for behaviour in school. So, again, it's a multi-agency approach that I think we need, and, in our good schools, our really, really good schools, there's a recognition of that need to have a whole team around a child to support that child in education. With EOTAS, we made some changes last year regarding PDG for EOTAS. So, for those children who do find themselves in education other than at school, we are providing additional support that previously was not available.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. We're going to move on now to talk about the impact of PDG on attainment. Hefin David has got some questions.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "It appears that the attainment gap at 2017 has actually widened, in spite of PDG levels. Is that correct?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, if you look at it—with the usual caveats about whether you can make direct comparisons on level 2 plus between the exams the year before and the exams that we had last summer—on the face of it, the gap has increased. I think what's important to recognise, Hefin, is a direction of travel. I'm sure we all want to, because I want to, have a discussion about why children on free school meals were less resilient in the exam system last year. But, if we look at the period that we have been employing PDG, over that period, we have seen a narrowing of the gap. I think what's quite stark, if we think about it—. So, if we look at where we started from: in 2009, one in five children on free school meals got level 2 plus—one in five—by 2016, we had got that down to one in three. Obviously, there's still a way to go, but, Sir Alasdair, who knows about these things, says that that is a significant improvement. Last year, we got some challenges. We need to understand why that happened, but I do think it's—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Why, do you think?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Why, do I think? What I do think is there is no one answer. There is no one answer to this. I think we could look at and we can have discussions around the move from BTEC to science GCSEs. I think we have supplied figures to the committee about the significant change in the number of children on free school meals who weren't doing a single science GCSE and are now doing science GCSEs. We can look at the unintended consequences of literature. Again, we've supplied figures. Where children have done language and literature, whether that be through the medium of English or through the medium of Welsh, there is more resilience. So, it's that exposure to literacy in all its forms that I think could potentially make a difference. So, I think there's no one answer to why free-school-meal children were not so resilient last year. We continue to have discussions with Qualifications Wales to get a better understanding of this. At my next ministerial policy board, in May, we'll be doing a deep dive into this particular subject.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, to what extent would exam boards be responsible for lack of grade stability?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "It could be one of the contributory factors. What I think is important is that there is no one, single reason why there seems to be less resilience in this cohort of children.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Will you be speaking to the exam boards about this and raising concerns?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I have written to Qualifications Wales, we've had discussions about it, but I've asked them to formally submit evidence ahead of my policy board for May, where, as I said, we will be doing a formal, deep-dive discussion across the department about these issues. But, again, Hefin, what we've got to be clear on is—while we look at overall factors, you know, our overall national statistic—we did see some schools last year whose FSM performance was better than it had been the year before. So, what was it in those schools that enabled those children to do really well, whereas, in other schools, the performance was different? Even in individual cities, you can see a huge variety of performance. So, take Cardiff and Swansea, our two biggest cities. You've got schools in those cities with comparative levels of free school meals. So, you could have really high-performing schools with a very small number of the cohort on free school meals. The difference between those performances in a single city—so, that's the same local education authority and the same regional consortium—you can see a massive change. There's one school I can talk to: their free-school-meal performance is 88 per cent. A similar school in the same city with the same proportion of children on free school meals, their performance is down in the 20 per cents. So, I think what's important is that we can't draw broad-brush conclusions. For me, the challenge is to go into individual schools and understand what was happening in that particular school that ensured that their children did really well. We've got one school in Swansea, their FSM performance at GCSE level 2 outperforms non-FSM pupils.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But we still need to rely on the trends from a distance. If we take your argument that 2017 was an unusual year and the trends up to 2016 were positive, in a few years' time, when we will be looking back in two years' time, how are we going to measure this progress, say, in 2019? What are we likely to see and what methods are you going to use to measure progress that way?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, you'll be aware that we are moving away from level 2 plus as a performance measure anyway because of the—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, what performance measures will you use?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "So, for the lack of sophistication around the level 2 plus, and for the unintended behaviours that that particular performance measure has driven within our schools. I'll be making a statement shortly to the Assembly around a new performance measure for schools. We were, at our most recent secondary heads conference, working with schools to develop that. What's important to me is that we have a more sophisticated model that looks at school performance for all children. What level 2 plus does is narrow, very much, the focus of schools on an individual part of the cohort, usually the C/D borderline, which is why then we have problems with the number of students getting a B grade or above. We have marked success in our schools by saying to schools that a C is good enough. Well, if a child gets a C but came to you in year 7 and they were destined to get an E, yes, indeed, a C is a success, because you've moved that child on; but, if that child came to you destined to get an A* and gets a C, then we haven't done a good job by that particular child. So, we need a performance measure that is much more sophisticated, looks at each individual child, tracks that progress, and measures the value added by that school in performance.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Last question: therefore, should we have confidence in the data up to 2016? Is there a lack of confidence in that data?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "No, it's not a lack of confidence in the data. The data is the data. What I'm saying is, using that as a performance measure and an accountability measure within our school system may have been right for the time. I think it is now right to have a different way of measuring success in schools. I think that particular set of performance measures has driven certain behaviours—not because Ministers wanted that to happen, but as an unintended consequence. I think we can work together with our school system, learning the lessons of international best practice, to develop much more sophisticated accountability and performance measures for individual schools, and, I should say, for the Government. So, you will be aware of my intention to issue the first national report card on Government performance later on this year. So, this is not about trying to avoid scrutiny. It's about trying to develop a more sophisticated way, which is in line with our national mission, where every child's education is valued, and where the impact of the school can be tracked more effectively.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Can I just ask, Cabinet Secretary, are you still holding on to your target of 37 per cent of free-school-meal pupils achieving the level 2 threshold?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we're moving away from the level 2 threshold. So, that's the first thing to say. So, we will want to develop a new suite, in line with our new accountability measures, as we go forward. So, we will be absolutely continuing to track and evaluate the performance of free-school-meal pupils. When we announce our new accountability measures, I will be in a position to address how we'll measure the Government's performance, and national performance, going forward. But, given the fact that we're moving away from level 2 plus, then we will need a different set of performance indicators.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. The next questions are on looked-after children and adopted children, and I've got questions from Michelle then Mark.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Good morning—",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "I was to come in first, I think. I was about to ask about ICF consulting.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Go on then.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think my questions are first, but, Michelle, please do correct me if you were planning to come in before. The PDG for looked-after children doesn't quite seem to have the degree of visibility as the PDG for the free-school-meals. I think we had the MORI/WISERD survey—only 15 per cent of primary schools and 23 per cent of secondary schools were aware that PDG was targeted at looked-after children. I just wonder—can you clarify on the record here what is the role of schools with PDG for looked-after children as compared to the regional consortia in this field?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I think it is absolutely fair to say that most awareness around PDG is around free school meals. There is less awareness around the availability of PDG to support looked-after children. I think that's probably in the nature of the cohort, so, there are more children subject to free school meals than are subject to being looked after. So, I think that's part of the explanation. A decision was taken in 2015 to regionalise PDG for looked-after children. My understanding was that the thinking behind that at the time was around a greater strategic deployment of that resource and to try and drive a greater impact than how it was being used previously. So, looked-after PDG is held at a regional level. We have looked-after children PDG co-ordinators—they're in their second year this year—to look at a regional deployment of that resource. And that resource can be done in a variety of ways, through individual allocation to a school to support an individual child, through to capacity building for the whole system. So, for instance, if I give you an example, in Carmarthenshire, there's been a big emphasis on attachment disorder and training teachers with regard to the impact of attachment disorder. Carmarthenshire happens to be one of those local authorities that does quite well in terms of attainment for looked-after children. But, clearly, I have—not concerns. 'Concerns' isn't the right word. But I have asked officials to give greater scrutiny to how that resource has been used in the last year. Steve, on my behalf, wrote out to the system, setting out our expectations, but also advising them of the fact we will be asking very detailed questions of accountability for that money. So, what has that money been used on and how can you account for the effect? But, Steve, maybe you can give some greater detail.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the challenge that—. One of the rationales for shifting—not that all the money stays in the region, but having a regional strategic support—was that, historically, the money was going directly with that child to the school. Given the quite often rapid turnover of children in schools—the very nature of looked-after children is they do sometimes move through foster parents—historically, what happened, the money lands in the school, because, at that time in the year, when it's measured, the school gets the money and can spend it on some additional support for staff, but quite often that child moves on to another school and the money doesn't transfer. Some schools will go through quite a number of years without having a looked-after child and will not think strategically, 'How do I need to support them?' So, that was the rationale of the shift. In terms of the implementation of the regional allocation, as of this financial year finishing, we are going into local authorities and regions to evaluate where they've located the resource, what the impact of that resource has been, so that is reinforced and shared more widely.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "And then, to reassure, it's not just internally that we're looking at this. We have a contract with an external agency to do an evaluation—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "That's ICF consulting.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Yes, so that was done in the autumn of last year, because, as I said, we had concerns about whether this was really having the effect that was intended. So, my expectation is that we will be in a position to receive that report later on this spring, and of course it would be my intention that that report would be made public for people to have a look at what—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "That was commissioned last autumn—",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, in November 2017.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "November 2017.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "So, I'm hoping to have that published before the summer recess. I'm very reluctant to say months; I've learnt not to say months, because they move.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm going to go to Michelle now, Mark, because—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Sure. I will come back in if I have anything further to ask here after Michelle.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "—both of you asked for these questions, and that's what the pre-meeting is for.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Michelle, I defer to you.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Michelle.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Would you be open, Cabinet Secretary, to the idea of adjusting the eligibility of the PDG so that pupils who have been looked after or adopted at any point within a previous given period of time would attract the PDG, rather than only if they're looked-after on a one-off date?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "As I said earlier, in questions from, I think it was, Llyr, who was talking about concepts of concepts of Ever 6, we are constantly looking at how we can get that balance between focus and flexibility for this resource. Llyr opened with the question of, 'How can you absolutely ensure that these children are getting the money?', but then there's also a tension about how can you create some flexibility around the school's usage of the grant. So, we will look at that. I think there is the issue of where a school would know of a child that was looked after. Issues around adoption are slightly more sensitive, because we couldn't force a family to tell a school that their child was an adopted child. So, a family may be very open and very keen to explain that to a school, but we can't necessarily track as closely children who have been adopted, especially if that adoption happens before the child goes to school. We can't be in a position of forcing families to disclose this information if they don't want to, but we certainly can, as I say, look to strengthen our monitoring arrangements around PDG support for looked-after children and the impact that that's having. I just think we need to be a bit mindful of people's privacy in some instances. If they don't want to divulge that, it wouldn't be my job to tell a family, 'You have to let us know if your child is adopted.'",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Michelle.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Fair enough; thank you for that answer. The EAS consortium's approach to using the looked-after and adopted PDG is to use it as part of a broader approach targeted at vulnerable learners in general. What are your views on that approach?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm a great believer in if we can get it right for our most vulnerable learners, we'll be getting it right for all of our learners. I gave the example earlier, for instance, of attachment disorder, and, Chair, you will know that I have had conversations. One of the emerging themes for me, as I go around visiting schools, is the impact and the growing awareness and the growing numbers of children who have attachment disorder, and how schools are best able to respond to that in their children. So, for instance, as I said about Carmarthenshire, there's been a huge effort to address that in the school sector in Carmarthenshire. Now, that has a disproportionate benefit for those children, because you're more likely to see attachment disorder in children who are care experienced, because of the nature of the lives that those children have lived, but that doesn't necessarily mean that attachment disorder is exclusively found in those children that are looked after. It can be found in other families as well. So, that vulnerable learner, regardless of their background, will benefit from having teachers who are better trained, understanding and have intervention strategies in place to be able to address that need.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's also important to add that this is not one region's approach; this is across four regions, so the others—. For example, ERW have run a significant programme looking at the impact of adverse childhood experiences on pupils, which has enabled teachers to detect some of the impact of some of those and then considers some of the work they need to do within the school but also with other agencies. So, it is something that's applied consistently across the four regions.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "I was in Pil Primary School recently where they use their PDG, both FSM PDG, and no doubt an element of PDG for looked-after, for nurture groups. So, for those children who really, really find it very difficult to be in the main classroom, they can have that nurture group experience to address issues around emotional behaviour, feelings, and it gets them in a position where they are able then to join the main classroom because issues around behaviour have been addressed and they're in a better position to learn. So, again, this is an example of how vulnerable learners in the wider sense can benefit.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Mark, did you have anything you wanted to ask?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Can I follow up on tracking adopted children? I entirely understand that you can't force parents to disclose that their child is adopted. However, my understanding was that, in England, there was a dataset with social services that was shared with schools in a way that I'm not clear is happening in Wales and how, if at all, that links to the pupil level annual school census data. Perhaps sort of linked to that, isn't there an argument for making the parents of adopted children in the schools, potentially, with adopted children more aware that adopted children who were previously looked after have this potential grant, and would they not be more willing to disclose this, at least confidentially to the school and Government, if they knew there was this upside of doing so?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "We're actively looking at whether we should try and find a way of collecting this data, with the caveats that I just gave earlier. We can't force parents to divulge information that is a matter for them, nor would I want to. But there is an active discussion going on at the moment about whether we could create a dataset where people divulge this information and we can then track the children through. You're absolutely right. One of the ways in which we can often encourage take-up, for instance, of free school meals, especially in those communities where there is a sense of reluctance to apply for support—even though people are entitled to it, there's a reluctance to do it; sometimes we see this in rural areas—. Actually, appealing to the parents by saying, 'Actually, this will mean more money for your child's school budget' is a much more compelling reason why people will apply for it then saying, 'Actually, it's going to help you', because they don't want to be seen being dependent, they don't want to be seen being helped. But, if you say to them, 'Actually, do you know that this means more money for your child's school?', they go, 'Oh, all right then, I'll fill in the forms now.' So, you're right, I think there is something that we could do to make parents understand, in the round, that this has an impact. But we are actively looking at and discussing whether we could create a dataset around adopted children and how we can do that in line with data protection and data sharing. One of the things I am concerned about in the performance of looked-after children generally is how we can, across Government, work more closely together. We can't see the educational attainment of looked-after children just being a job of education. It's got to be a job of social services and the health service as well. There's got to be a joined-up approach to doing that. Now, officials were at the ministerial advisory group that's chaired by David Melding on prospects for looked-after children. They were there at the group last week. David tells me that the paper was very positively received by the group. I will be sitting down with David Melding to talk through what more we can do on the education side. I think there's really an appetite between me and the Minister for children to get a closer working relationship on this. We can't expect schools to do it on their own and alone. And there are things that we can do out there in local authorities to help improve outcomes. It's not just about the PDG; it is about, when social services are thinking about a placement, where does the discussion about where children are going to go to school—when does that take place? Do we talk about the placement, move a child and then think, 'Oh my goodness me, what are we going to do about the schooling?' If you can imagine, the school could have been working really, really hard with a pupil to get them in a good place, to get them being able to access the curriculum, and then social services decide that the placement is being changed. So, we potentially lose all of that. So, a greater involvement in education and better linked-up working in local authorities will help us with this. It can't be just the job of the PDG. If we think we can crack this with just PDG, then we're being delusional. It has to be a cross-government approach at a national level, and at a local government level as well, to get this right. Sometimes, data protection—how can we break down some of these barriers between, you know, the school doesn't need to, schools shouldn't see, the entire social services report? Well, maybe the school does need to see some of that background information if they're going to have an impact for that child. So, there's more work to do, but it cannot be just the job of education on its own if we're going to make a difference, nor can it just be the job of the PDG to make a difference for those children.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Julie's got some more questions on the impact on adopted and looked-after children.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, before I go on to those, I just wanted to support, really, what Mark was saying about adopted children and how important it is, I think, that the adoptive parents feel able to speak to the school and to give information. Because certainly any evidence we've had from adoptive parents, and generally knowing about what adoptive parents do feel, is that they often feel that there's a degree of a lack of sensitivity in the school about the issues of adoption. I would certainly support some move towards ensuring that the atmosphere was open in a way that would encourage them to realise that it would be a help for the children if there was an awareness in the school. So, I just wanted to really reinforce that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and that would chime with what I hear from many adoptive parents. I'm just trying to be sensitive by saying we can't force people to divulge this information if they don't want to.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "No, but they need to be given the opportunity.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, you're right. We need to make sure that those parents feel that they can discuss this with school leaders and classroom teachers and explore how best those individual children can be supported, and how best we can support parents. Because, again—and I've said this a lot—after the quality of teaching, the second biggest impact on a child's educational outcome will be parental engagement. So, being able to create an environment where adoptive parents feel very confident and able to talk about their children's education is absolutely crucial if we're going to get that parental engagement that we need for all of our children.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Thank you. Going on to looked-after children, you say that the latest data on looked-after children's attainment is extremely disappointing. Can you expand on that and what effect the PDG has had in this result, or not had?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, there's no getting away from it: the way in which we currently measure outcomes for looked-after children, the results are not good enough. It's a source of huge concern to me that we need to do better for those children. That's why officials are engaging with the group that David Melding is chairing, to make sure that education is integral to that group and it's not lost sight of. There's a discussion to be had about the cohort, whether it's right and correct to compare looked-after children to the main cohort, or whether these statistics are useful in any way. Sometimes as well—this is not to make an excuse because, as I've said in my paper, it's extremely disappointing, but sometimes it can be really difficult. Because the cohort sometimes can be very, very small, it can swing the statistics to look perhaps more dramatic.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, generally, when you look at how looked-after children do—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "It's not good.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "—in a much wider evaluation, they're not doing well, are they?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "They're not doing well. So, that's why we've got the review, the independent review, into the impact of the PDG in this area. This is why Steve is doing the work that he is doing with the regional consortia because, clearly, at the moment, we are not doing what we need to do for that particular cohort of children. I would not make any bones about that at all.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we will not move away from the fact that these children need good GCSEs to gain employment, so we'll continue to measure that. I think we need to look at more nuanced evaluations of the data at a lower level. So, for example, there were significant improvements in terms of PDG pupils who got three and four good GCSEs but didn't get past the threshold. That's not to cover anything that is not working in terms of improvement, but we will look at the full range and still hold on to the fact that we have to look at a measure that relates to the likelihood of these children going on to further education and training.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "And then just one more question about the exclusion rates amongst looked-after children. They are, I understand, over six times more likely to be given a fixed-term exclusion. So, is there any way of trying to address this? Is the PDG used for anything to do with exclusions?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "We can look at exclusions. We also have to read across about how the whole system works, not just the PDG element of the system. So, we know, for example, that 66 per cent of looked-after learners have some additional learning need, so we can't just look at it in terms of this particular source of funding; we have to look at it at a wider level of support. So, given that the majority of those children will have an ALN, how can we make sure that our new ALN legislation and our new ALN regime meets the needs of these children? So, I think what we're looking at, again, is to say that it can't be just the job of the PDG. That's there as an additional level of support, but actually, we've got to get our ALN right. Unless we get our ALN right, lots and lots of these children are not going to get the support that they need day in, day out via that system. We do know that sometimes, if we're not addressing ALN, then we're not addressing behaviour issues that then potentially lead to an expulsion or potentially lead to non-attendance. So, we've got to look at it in the round and recognise the connections between the sometimes quite complex needs that these children have within the school setting, that are not just as a result of the fact that they're looked after; they have other needs as well.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And investment in well-being—",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely. Steve is reminding me that that's why well-being is part of the national mission—to address issues around supporting children with their well-being, which is a way of keeping them in school.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We're going to move on to Schools Challenge Cymru now. Llyr.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. I was just wondering what your assessment is as to why some schools made progress and others didn't.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we have to recognise that the 39 schools that were part of the programme were in very, very different places. So, I think one of the reasons why some schools did well was because their needs were not so complex, not so deep-seated and a certain level of intervention was enough to get them moving forward. Some schools had very, very different needs. I think, talking to those involved in the programme, as always, we had some support advisers, challenge advisers working with those schools as part of the programme who were really, really excellent and really good, and were the right fit for the school and really drove the school onwards. We had other people employed in the programme who, perhaps, were less effective at driving change within those individual schools. So, what we have is a mixed bag of performance, again reflecting the very different challenges that those schools were facing, which led them to be chosen for the programme in the first place.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, okay—",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry. One of the other key additional factors was the extent to which there had been recent appointment of a new headteacher to that school just before the programme had started, because—",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Leadership is all.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And that was seen as a positive.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "A positive, yes. I think one of the challenges is that sometimes the time it takes to make changes in leadership can be protracted and can be a barrier, sometimes, to the speed with which you can move. But, for a significant minority of the schools, there had been recent new appointments of headteachers, which was seen to be contributing, when you looked at the evaluation, to the speed with which they were able to engage.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "The reason I was asking was I wanted to understand what lessons the Government is taking from that three-year investment, really, and how, maybe, you're applying some of those lessons to your wider school improvement programme. I know Professor Mel Ainscow identified six interconnected lessons, although I also note that the Cabinet Secretary didn't actually meet him for about six or seven months after coming into post. So, I'm just wondering, can you give us confidence that, actually, you are serious about taking lessons from Schools Challenge Cymru and applying them to the wider school improvement agenda?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, absolutely, Llyr. I don't think anything should be read into when I met the individual concerned, because officials were meeting the individual concerned. Individual challenge advisers were meeting with the regions, there was crossover work with the FSM agenda as well, and we are absolutely determined that best practice and those interventions that drove school improvement are embedded in the new support that we have via the regional consortia. It's no coincidence that some of the best people that were employed by Schools Challenge Cymru are now in the employment of our regional consortia. So, those people that were really good and really made a difference don't work for the Schools Challenge Cymru scheme any more, they work for our regional school improvement services. So, we're absolutely determined. The things that we have learned, as always, are around leadership. It is absolutely key and crucial to have strong, capable school leadership as a driver for change within the system. We're looking at systems and processes, so, actually, has a school got in place comprehensive systems of tracking and processes within the school? We're looking at the teacher quality—how can we ensure that we have got consistent strategies in place to drive up pedagogy and teacher quality in the classroom? Collaborative activity—again, absolutely key. A school cannot see itself in isolation, and one of the key themes of the national mission is a self-improving system, so, collaborative working where schools are looking outside of each other, learning from best practice from other schools. So, there are lots of things that we've drawn from the evaluation that you will see as key themes running through the national mission, and, as I said, it's no coincidence that our really good people that were working in Schools Challenge Cymru are now working for the regional consortia, being able to use that expertise not just for a very small proportion of our schools—but that expertise is available to all our schools.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Although Estyn has told us, of course, that you can't expect the consortia to really carry on with that level of intervention and the same kind of intensity as was provided previously, so I'm just wondering—",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "In what way?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we were told by Estyn in evidence that they didn't necessarily think that we could expect the consortia to provide the same type of tailored support, and certainly the level of intensity with the improvement boards and everything—",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the improvement boards are carrying on, so the improvement boards still exist, and I would—not that I want to argue with Estyn—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, feel free; this is your opportunity to do so if you—",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "What I would say is that those improvement boards are staying on, and our schools categorisation system is used to identify the level of support. Now, if you're a red school, that gives you the entitlement to 25 days of support. That is more than you would have got under the Schools Challenge Cymru programme, which would've been 20 days. So, actually, moving to this system allows us to really focus in on those schools that need that intensive level of support. And what's important for me, Llyr, in this, okay, is that those schools are not necessarily just the schools that were in the programme. Our system now of challenge, advice and support allows us to target resources across all of our schools and across all of our sectors, because you'll be aware that Schools Challenge was only available to secondary schools, not available to primary schools. What our system now allows us to do, via the schools categorisation, is to identify schools, wherever they are in Wales and whatever sector they're in, to have that intensive level of support that they need to make improvements.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, you're confident that that level of momentum is continuing through the consortia that was previously enjoyed by those particular schools, and you're also confident that there is minimal risk that they'll slip back to where they were, potentially, or at least part of the way back.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, actually, there are some really good examples of some of the Schools Challenge Cymru schools making that sustained improvement now that the programme has come to an end. You only have to look at Tredegar, where we have seen continual improvement and moving up through the categorisation system. That school is now a green school, so they've been able to sustain their progress at the end of the programme. If we look at Armando in Eastern High School, again—gosh, my goodness me, we had lots of debates in a previous Chamber about the future of Eastern. There was one person that said that Eastern had to be closed and that the only way forward for that particular school was for it to be shut down, but what we have seen is investment via Schools Challenge Cymru, but ongoing, continual support from the regional consortium, and that school has come out of special measures. I pay absolute tribute to the staff of that school and that community that have done such a good job. So, I'm absolutely convinced that where we've got good leadership and good support, some of those schools are making continued, sustained progress even after the end of the programme. The challenge for me is for those schools that Schools Challenge Cymru didn't work for, and we haven't seen that progress—how we can use our school improvement system now to continue to work with those schools to give them the level of support that they need to make a difference. So that's what my focus is on now: a whole-system approach, rather than choosing 39 schools to get that level of support, when we recognise that there are schools everywhere, potentially, that need intervention, support and challenge, and in the primary sector as well.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, you wouldn't agree with a number of—well, the near-unanimous evidence that we've had from academics, some of whom are Government advisers from consortia et cetera, that this kind of programme such as Schools Challenge Cymru would probably need about five years to really have the impact that it was intended to have.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "What I would say is that, from my understanding, from the outset, it was a time-limited programme. The schools were aware of that. There were no surprises that it was supposed to be a time-limited programme. Evidence from across the UK showed that school challenge programmes have differed in time. So, for instance, Manchester's challenge was a three-year programme. So, there's no consensus about how many years you need to run a programme for. The previous Minister was quite clear about the time-limited nature of the programme. That's not to say it was the wrong decision, because what's important, and an ongoing legacy of the programme, was the investment in regional school improvement capacity, because at the time our school improvement services and the regions were young, in their infancy. The ability of individual local authorities to make a difference, with so many local authorities in an Estyn categorisation, was limited, so one of the ongoing legacies of the programme is that significant investment of over £10 million in the capacity of the regions to be able to continue this support and the school improvement work.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, how disappointed were you that the money for Schools Challenge Cymru went back into reserves and didn't stay in your envelope, as you described it earlier? I presume you made a pitch for it. Did you make a case for that money to stay within your department?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Llyr, we are constantly having discussions with the Minister for Finance around support for the education budget. The Minister for Finance was quite clear that it was a time-limited programme. We were able to secure investment from the Finance Minister to be able to secure the programme and run it and phase it out to make sure there was transition support, so as we moved from the schools challenge programme into the regional consortia, there were resources to do that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Did you feel there was a case to be made to add to the consortia's resources and be able to continue that level of support that schools had previously had?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we did make resources available to the regional consortia to do that. As I say, from the outset, the previous Minister was very clear it was a time-limited programme. Certainly the schools that I talk to—. And I want to be absolutely clear: I have visited many, many Schools Challenge Cymru schools. I have used that opportunity to talk to them about—Heolddu being one of them, Hefin, which we went to visit, and Willows, for instance. I'm going to one this afternoon—I'm going to St Illtyd's this afternoon, and I always take—. I've been to Caergybi in Anglesey. I always take the opportunity to speak to those teachers about their experience of the programme and to understand and assure myself that they are getting ongoing support that they see as an appropriate level for them. I think I've done 19 of the schools.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Hefin on this.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "With regard to it being a time-limited programme, the previous Minister was clear that it was a time-limited programme, but it wasn't quite as time-limited as you've decided to be. Is that fair to say?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "No, it was supposed to be a three-year programme at the most. So, there's no differential between when I decided it was time-limited and the expectations—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So the time limit was the same that the previous Minister put on it.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. No change.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But Mel Ainscow did tell us that there was a fade out in that third year—not that people were giving up, don't get me wrong, but clearly there wasn't that commitment coming from Government because the decision had been made, and people felt that it was just fizzling out a little bit, and that impacted on the momentum.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I wouldn't characterise it as that. I think there certainly was a transition phase when we knew that the programme was moving and schools were moving into a different level of support, but I certainly wouldn't describe it as a fading out—not at all. As I said, we were aware that the programme was transitioning and we were determined to get that right for those individual schools, and to learn the lessons and, crucially, to be able to apply those lessons right across the board.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I can see where the perception would come if a programme director like Mel was managing the programme right to the end of the three years exactly the same, and it falls off—not a cliff, but it falls off, then the readiness for schools and the readiness in the system to hand over—so part of the shift of focus was that working as a Government with the programme in those schools to working with the programme, those schools and the region. So, I think, inevitably, one party might see it as a decrease in terms of emphasis on their work, but it was necessary for the transition.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "But does that cast a bit of a shadow over the transition, then—that one key player within that process felt as such, or are you confident that that was managed well and effectively?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it was managed well, and we were very clear to recognise success where success has been achieved, but not to gloss over where the programme had not made an impact, because that wouldn't be good for anybody. There was a formal event to close the programme, which gave everybody an opportunity to get together, to be formally thanked, and for, as I said, congratulations to be given to those people who had really made a difference and, crucially, key staff transferred over into the regional consortia. So, for those individuals, they were able to continue their work, but just be able to apply that work on a regional basis rather than just in an individual school. So, I don't see that there was any fading out, but there was a transition into a new system, and many of those key personnel transitioned into the system with us.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Have you got any figures for the numbers of staff who went from the programme into the consortia?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Not off the top of my head, but I can let you know.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I've got Darren first, then Mark.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "And can I just say, I met with some of them? I met with a selection of those people who had been involved in the programme to get their feedback on what they felt had gone right, and what they didn't feel had gone right in the programme. So, I took the time not just to meet the figurehead of the programme, but actually to meet the people who were doing the work in the individual schools. Sorry.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I just wanted to ask you, you mentioned the figurehead there, I assume by 'the figurehead' you mean Professor Ainscow. And you've mentioned as well that you said you wanted to learn lessons from Schools Challenge Cymru, but he told us that nobody had been in touch with him since March of last year in order to have any sort of follow-up engagement, or to have a dialogue about his perspective on what worked, what didn't work, why there were failures in some areas and why there were successes in others. Why haven't you sought that level of engagement with the person who was responsible for running the programme?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I've had that conversation with Mr Ainscow. We had the evaluation of the programme. We've spoken to the people who were actually involved in running the programme on a daily basis in individual schools. We've spoken to the regional consortia. We've spoken to local education authorities. We've spoken to a wide variety of people to get their insight into the lessons learned, what was valuable and what was not valuable. So, a wide variety of people have been involved in those conversations.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But you've hardly engaged with Mr Ainscow—with Professor Ainscow himself.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I would actually say that I have had meetings—",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Since March of last year.",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, since March of last year. I haven't got the exact dates for you. I've had discussions with Mel Ainscow, and my line manager at the time, Owen Evans, also had meetings and discussions.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "So, when he told us, 'Since last March, I literally have had no contact at all with anybody from Welsh Government', he was telling porky pies, was he?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "That's not my recollection. I'll go back and check for you.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "If you could check and let us know, that would be good. Mark.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, well, I just talked about the celebration event to formally mark the end of the programme. My understanding was that it was July of last year, so people were engaged in that. And this idea that somebody has been ignored or frozen out is not how I see or how I regard that situation.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Mark.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I have to say, with Professor Ainscow my impression was he took great, great pride in the work that he'd done with Schools Challenge Cymru, and I think he really enjoyed the engagement, the work and the positive relations with the Welsh Government. But I think there was just a degree of disappointment, perhaps, that at least he didn't feel that he'd been interrogated as much as he might have been about the lessons learned from the programme, and how perhaps to entrench those as well as possible with the regional consortia. I just wonder, Cabinet Secretary, if you could invite the professor in, perhaps to have a further debrief with you and take account of some of his thoughts and suggestions for what might help in this area.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, Mark, as I said, I just don't think it should be right to characterise this as a failure to engage with a single individual.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not characterising it that way, Cabinet Secretary.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "As I said, I met with him, Steve has met with him, Owen Evans has met with him, my special policy adviser has met with him and had discussions. So, there has been an ongoing dialogue. But, Mark, I hope that I have demonstrated since I took on this job that I am willing to work with a wide variety of people and to tap into their expertise if it can help me to deliver on the national mission. And if the advice to me is that we haven't sufficiently learnt the lessons, then I'll gladly have another conversation. What I'm saying to you—and I'm absolutely confident—is that we have learnt the lessons, we are taking that work and the good practice forward, and we have done that with conversations with a wide variety of people who had a view on this, from individual schools that were involved in the programme, individual people who were working in those schools, local education authorities, some of which have been very scathing about the programme, I should say, regional consortia—. So, the lessons, I am confident, have been learnt.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm glad to hear that, Cabinet Secretary, but I still say that, listening to Professor Ainscow's evidence, there was a perception, at least from him individually, that the programme should not be seen to be a failure, but a desire that the lessons should be learnt and a feeling or exception, at least on his part, that there was more that he still had to contribute to the process. And just to take one particular example, I think he referred to the Schools Challenge Cymru advisers being very successful in bringing in people who might not otherwise have contributed to this, and the regional consortia have had greater challenges in recruiting people, perhaps in some areas, of the same high standard of some particular individuals, but also from a wide range of different areas that the Schools Challenge Cymru do, and that there could be more to learn in that area as to how to support real excellence and a greater diversity of recruitment for those people. Is that something you could perhaps draw on his thoughts further about? Because I think he does feel that he has more to say to Welsh Government to help in this area.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Firstly, can I say that I have never described the programme as a failure? I would understand, as someone who has put so much personal investment into the brand of schools challenges, that he would not want anybody to characterise that particular approach to school improvement as a failure. And I want to be absolutely clear that I have never described the programme as a failure, and I want to reassure Mr Ainscow of that. As I've said, gosh, my goodness me, if you saw my e-mail inbox and you saw the letters that come in, people are never shy in coming forward to give me advice on what I need to do, what I need to do next, what I'm doing right, what I'm doing wrong, and, you know, our doors are always open to listen to people who have interesting things to say about how we can deliver our educational mission. So, people aren't slow in coming forward, I can assure you, with advice.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Julie.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just very quickly. I'm sure the Minister is aware that Cardiff put extra funds of its own in to continue Schools Challenge Cymru advisers. So, obviously, they appreciated the value of the scheme, but it does query whether it should have gone on longer.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Julie, I think, to be fair, there are some people who think the scheme was absolutely fantastic. I've had feedback from people who didn't think the scheme was helpful at all—in fact, they felt it was a hindrance. I'm very much of the view that the scheme worked really well for some schools in some areas and had less impact in some areas. There is a mixed picture. What's important to me is that we understand what it was that led those schools to make those big changes, how we can—like Mark talked about, the expertise—how we can keep that expertise in the system, and how we can apply the lessons to all schools.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "The next questions, and the final questions, are from John. So, we're going to need succinct questions and succinct answers.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Some questions on regional consortia, Cabinet Secretary, and, first of all, the role that you believe they should play and how schools use PDG.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's an absolute—. It's one of the things that I have been very clear to the regional consortia that I expect their challenge and support advisers to be asking schools about. So, one of the conversations that they need to have when they are in schools is exploring, with that school, how they are using their PDG, and how they're demonstrating an impact for those resources. So, it's a fundamental role for the challenge and support advisers in the regional consortia in their school improvement work. It's crucial.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "That sort of brings to mind some of the research that's been done on the role of the challenge advisers, Cabinet Secretary, which suggested that they're not actually challenging schools in that way, and that there's very little evidence of schools changing their decisions on the use of PDG as a result of any challenge from those challenge advisers. So, how would you respond to those findings?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said, in my scrutiny of the role and success of our regional consortia, I specifically asked them about free-school-meal performance and the use of PDG within their particular region. I think there is increasing evidence to suggest that good use is being made of that resource, and I think that is being fed back into us. Estyn tell us that it's one of the areas of school expenditure that is closely linked to research and an evidence base. But, clearly, there is more to do, and that's why we have appointed the new regional advisers for PDG going forward, because we think there can be improvements in how this agenda can be supported at a regional level.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, you would recognise the findings from that research.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. There's always more that we can do, and we are strengthening that role by the appointment of the new regional PDG advisers, so that individual school challenge advisers know what they should be looking for, know what they should be doing, and there is a regional approach to good practice.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Could you tell the committee, Cabinet Secretary, how effective you believe the relationship was between the Schools Challenge Cymru programme and the regional consortia's school improvement functions, and to what extent it varied by region?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's fair to say that, on occasion, I have received feedback that there was a conflict between what was going on at an individual school under the school improvement programme and whether, then, they welcomed support from the regional consortia as part of that. So, in some cases, if we're being absolutely honest, there could sometimes be tensions between the two, but in most cases, the relationship was very, very positive and there was continuous feedback between the work going on in the schools under the programme and the regional consortia challenge advisers. But I'm going to be blunt and honest with people—in some cases, it has been reported to me—it's only anecdotal evidence; I haven't got hard and fast evidence—that there sometimes was a conflict: 'We're a school challenge school so we don't need to participate or listen to any advice that's coming from the regional consortia.' Or, a local education authority said to me, 'We felt that we couldn't get involved in that school anymore because it was part of a different programme.' Those were isolated incidents, and, as I said, it's only anecdotal feedback. In most cases, the relationship was a very positive one.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Just very quickly, I think that, across the board, it was more complex in the beginning, getting—[Inaudible.]. But when the programme itself recognised that they needed to work with the regions, and the regions needed to work with them—and I think Mel Ainscow in his evidence referred to this—it strengthened after some early challenges. I think Mel Ainscow was working in a number of regions—I can't remember which ones—so he's established relationships—[Interruption.] Sorry?",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Central south.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Central south. He has already been working in that, so I think it possibly had a stronger springboard in terms of the early working.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Because he already had relationships that he had already developed in that particular region. As always, with many of these things, it's about individuals and relationships.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Finally from me, Cabinet Secretary: in 2015-16, Estyn reported on regional consortia not sufficiently focusing on particular groups of pupils and tracking their outcomes—for example, vulnerable pupils. I just wonder what you are able to tell us in terms of to what extent there has been necessary progress since 2015-16.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, I think it's important to recognise that all four consortia underwent monitoring visits in the autumn of last year, of 2017, which weren't reflected in the Estyn annual report for 2015-16. Estyn, through these 2017 inspections, have said that three out of the four regional consortia are making strong progress in their particular work, and we are continuing, as Welsh Government, to work with the other regional consortia to address the findings of the Estyn report.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And that would include these particular issues.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, absolutely. The committee probably hasn't had an opportunity to see, but, only this morning, Estyn has released a report on more able and talented, and has positive things to say in the field of more able and talented, which was being asked about earlier by Members—you know, evidence of improved working and support in that particular arena. But, again, we need to ensure a consistency across all the regions, and that the findings of Estyn's most recent reports into regional performance are followed through.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. As we've got a couple of minutes left, if I can just jump back to the issue of practical uses of the PDG—because it's the only thing we haven't really covered and it would be good to get on the record—can I ask to what extent you'd like to see the PDG used to track the progress of eligible pupils? And the committee's heard that there are several different tracking systems and tools used by schools. To what extent is that an issue to do with what the Welsh Government is promoting? Or is it down to consortia or individual schools? And do you think there needs to be a more centralised push on how the tracking is undertaken?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Firstly, can I say it's absolutely crucial that we track performance, absolutely crucial? That's the bedrock. We don't dictate to individual schools the nature of the system that they should employ in their school. There are a number of different programmes that allow schools to do this, but we are absolutely clear, and best practice and evidence shows us, that individual pupil tracking is key and crucial. And, as I said in the beginning, where we weren't tracking pupils at all, initial investment in PDG was used to establish these systems within schools. Again, one of the outcomes from the schools challenge review, and one of the lessons learnt, was, again, the importance of individual tracking of pupils throughout their school career. But we don't dictate a single system.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "But the principle is a really important one.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, and you don't think there's more scope to look at what the best system is that can be recommended to schools.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "That's not something we're actively looking at. I am actively looking at developing a Welsh toolkit around good practice, evidence base and research. At the moment we use the Sutton Trust toolkit, which is fine and excellent, but we are having active discussions about whether we're in a position, now, to look at developing a suite of a Welsh toolkit to support this agenda, and that's under active consideration.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, we've reached the end of our session. Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary and the officials for attending and for answering such a wide range of questions? As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting, but thank you again for coming.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Okay. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Minister for Children and Social Care on Families First funding. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education, updating us on the supply teacher issue. Paper to note 3—another letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education, providing further information following our meeting on 15 February. Paper to note 4 is a letter from the WJEC on availability of textbooks. Paper to note 5—a letter from Qualifications Wales, also on availability of textbooks. And paper to note 6 is a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education to the Children's Commissioner for Wales, following up on the dialogue that they've been having about our inquiry. Are Members happy to note those? Thank you. Item 4, then, is for me to propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_24 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"8",
"40"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about the use of pupil development grant funding"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"41",
"89"
]
],
"topic": "Detailed debate about PGD in aspects of a typical school day"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"90",
"121"
]
],
"topic": "Support from PGD for looked-after children and adopted children"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"122",
"149"
]
],
"topic": "Concerns of the Schools Challenge Cymru programme"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"152",
"182"
]
],
"topic": "Government's plan of different changes"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"182",
"203"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about different types of schools"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"204",
"231"
]
],
"topic": "New plans for post-16 education and self-evaluation system"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting between the Children, Young People and Education Committee and the Welsh Government was considered as an evidence session to the continuation of the inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes. The meeting started by discussing thoroughly about the use of pupil development grant funding in different sectors and the meeting believed that PDG would largely cover each aspect of students' rights and support the school services at the same time. Later, the meeting also agreed about the PDG's contribution to special kids and more able and talented streams. The meeting also talked about changes in key positions to ensure smooth adoption of the new curriculum. In the end, several issues regarding different phases of education and connection between different sectors were brought up and currently, they would work out the final stage.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Meilyr Rowlands introduced that the grant had been targeted far better by now than it was originally and it was very specific towards the different use of the fund in each aspect of the school day, especially for those students eligible for free school meals. However, Llyr Gruffydd AM questioned that research by Ipsos MORI and the Wales Institute of Social and Economic Research, Data and Methods had shown that there was some kind of blurring. Meilyr Rowlands indicated that although schools were not following the exact process, the spirit of PDG was included, which was fair enough.",
"query": "How was the effectiveness of the pupil development grant funding?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"8",
"11"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Meilyr Rowlands introduced that Estyn had always been very strongly focused on improving the performance of more able pupils. More inspections were added to this certain group of students, especially at the relative performance of different groups and different performances of boys and girls. Currently the main strategy was always to identify where there were weaknesses to ensure the overall process of a typical school day.",
"query": "What was emphasized on the more able and talented stream?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"17",
"25"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Michelle Brown AM suggested that only two thirds of secondary and primary schools were making effective use of the PDG while the meaning, a third, were still not using that PDG effectively. Meilyr Rowlands regarded this issue of lacking good leadership and suggested improving attendance, offering extra-curricular activities, literacy and numeracy support, tracking pupils would improve the process, especially to engage the learners.",
"query": "What was the proportion of schools making effective use of the PDG?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"27",
"33"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Claire Morgan first suggested that in the best schools, the headteachers consider themselves to be community leaders as well as headteachers, and they often set up arrangements where they engaged directly with the families of disadvantaged children or children who were under achieving generally. And PDG would be used for appointing staff to these positions to connect the family with the school.",
"query": "What did the PDG come into working with families?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"51",
"55"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Claire Morgan suggested that the first thing to do was to finish the inspection report, and the government should highlight the practice there. In this way, detailed outcomes of the methods would be listed and would be shared in the conferences where different schools join in it. But Hefin David AM challenged that it was not engaging and Claire Morgan argued that the learning process worthed trying.",
"query": "How did the government plan to spread the method of building connections?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"56",
"59"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Meilyr Rowlands indicated that it was quite difficult to identify the cause and the effect in terms of the PDG but what was clear was that there had been some improvements by now. Using the same measuring method, in 2017, there was a re-widening of the attainment gap between pupils on free school meals and those not on free school meals. However, currently secondary schools were driven overly by performance indicators and the result turned out to be satisfying, though the exact result still remained unclear.",
"query": "What did the meeting talk about the attainment gap between pupils on free school meals and those not on free school meals?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"74",
"89"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "To answer Mark Reckless AM's question, Meilyr Rowlands explained that any good organisation would welcome external scrutiny. Since there had been in the past systems of quinquennial reviews, it would be healthy to have that sort of external view, especially when Estyn aimed at improving the current situation and adopting new changes.",
"query": "What were the reasons for Professor Donaldson being asked to undertake a review of Estyn's role?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"152",
"153"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Meilyr Rowlands suggested that it was hard to compare Ofsted and Education Scotland and the Education Training Inspectorate in Northern Ireland with the decision to have Estyn as an independent body inspecting schools and other institutions in Wales. Different institutions did things slightly differently, but the government had benefited a lot from each one of them. Meilyr Rowlands concluded that the use of the nominee and peer inspectors in particular supported the whole process in Wales.",
"query": "What were the benefits to Wales of having an independent body for inspecting?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"154",
"157"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Darren Millar AM suggested that it had been one of the tough problems that was identified in the past and it was hard to travel the good practice to local authorities, regional consortia, and the Welsh Government efficiently in a short period. Meilyr Rowlands agreed that the problem was highly associated with the foundation phase and training should be included in both a pupil-led learning experience and a teacher-led learning experience, though they shared differences with each other.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the lack of good practice being able to travel into all parts of Wales?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"165",
"171"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "John Griffiths AM suggested that one way was through community-focused schools that were very much accessible to the community, linked well with outside organisations, having an extended school-day offer. Meilyr Rowlands agreed that it was a good method and the government was delighted to support the remaining schools which still participate in the process in every way. It was concluded that a new mechanism should be added to avoid misunderstanding the role of community-focused schools.",
"query": "What was the way to get families and the community more involved in education?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"151",
"186"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Meilyr Rowlands agreed that indeed in previous annual reports, the difference between primary and secondary did exist. Nearly three quarters of primary schools were doing well and about half of secondary schools were the same. The reason seemed to be there was a widening of gaps when it moved from primary to secondary, but also it was from foundation phase to key stage 2 to key stage 3 to key stage 4. To conclude, Meilyr Rowlands suggested that a whole range of issues should be considered to help explain what had been identified about the gap.",
"query": "To what extent had the rate of improvement differed between the primary and secondary sectors?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"192",
"193"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The government highlighted special schools as a successful sector in the annual report, since over 90 per cent of them were good or better. Schools cared for children with emotional and behavioural difficulties were improving and they worked as a team instead of competing with each other. Although the independent special sector over the cycle was slightly different, the overal achievements were significant.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the standards in special schools?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"197",
"200"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Bore da. Unfortunately, the Chair, Lynne Neagle, is unable to attend today's meeting. Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 17.22, I call for nominations for a temporary Chair, for the duration of the meeting.",
"speaker": "Sian Thomas"
},
{
"content": "I nominate John Griffiths.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Any further nominations? I therefore declare that John Griffiths has been appointed temporary Chair, and I invite him to chair for the duration of today's meeting.",
"speaker": "Sian Thomas"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. I thank the Members for that. Welcome, everyone, to this meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. The first item on our agenda today is apologies, substitutions, declarations of interest. Obviously, Lynne Neagle isn't able to be with us today. We haven't received any other apologies. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2 on our agenda, the continuation of our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes, and evidence session 8. And I'm very pleased to welcome Estyn here this morning to give evidence to the committee. Would you like to introduce yourselves for the record, please?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Meilyr Rowlands, chief inspector.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Claire Morgan, strategic director.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Simon Brown, strategic director.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. And welcome again. If it's okay, we'll move straight into questions—we have quite a number of questions to get through this morning. Firstly, Llyr.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair, and good morning. I just want to start by asking about your perception of how schools are using the pupil development grant funding, and to what extent they are genuinely targeting that funding exclusively towards children eligible for free school meals.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for the question. This grant has been targeted far better by now than it was originally. Estyn has made several reports regarding the effectiveness of the grant, and, really, going back to before this specific grant, to a similar grant, called RAISE. At the start of this grant, the funding was often spent on tackling underachievement, rather than dealing with the underachievement of children who are eligible for free school meals specifically. But, over a period of time, we have seen that it is targeted much better by now. That's not to say that the targeting is working perfectly still, and I think that we are seeing examples where the targeting isn't going just to children who receive free school meals. Schools sometimes interpret poverty in a slightly wider way than that. In terms of what schools are doing with the grant, we have given evidence to you of the kinds of things that they are doing. They are tracking progress of pupils, they are trying to improve attendance, they are trying to work with families and the community in general, they're doing work specifically to improve how children are doing in exams, in key stage 4, specifically—a lot of funding is being spent on that—improving the confidence of students, taking students on extra-curricular activities, improving literacy and numeracy. Those are the kinds of activities they're being used for.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Because the research by Ipsos MORI and the Wales Institute of Social and Economic Research, Data and Methods has shown that there is some kind of blurring—I think that's the term that they use—in terms of who is eligible. But you are relatively comfortable with the fact that there is sufficient targeting happening. You referred to the fact that it is used, perhaps, to reach a slightly wider cohort than just those who are eligible for free school meals, but you do feel that that balance, from your experience, is acceptable.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, certainly, it has improved a great deal. When I was looking at this initially, the targeting wasn’t happening at all. It was being spent on children who were underachieving, and one of the things that we did notice in the first report was that much more funding was being spent on boys than girls. And, of course, that raised the question immediately that it wasn't being spent then on children who are eligible for free school meals, because those numbers are equal. So, it wasn’t, but it has improved. There is a discussion about who exactly should have it and whether free school meals is the best definition. So, I think that schools are perhaps not following that exactly, but within the spirit of the grant, I think I’m fairly comfortable. There is a specific question—I don’t know if you are going to ask this—regarding more able and talented pupils.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "That's where I was going next.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "So, if there is a cohort of pupils who are missing out on this, they are the more able and talented pupils who receive free school meals. There are a number of reasons for this, I think. One of them is that there’s still some feeling that less able children should be receiving this grant, children who are underachieving. Schools don’t always identify underachievement of those more able children. It seems that they are doing okay, but if they were given more support, they would do even better.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "So, is it a lack of awareness of the nature of the grant, and that the individual has to be targeted rather than just those who are underachieving? Is that the problem? Or is it the regime that focuses on exam results and the need to draw those pupils who are underachieving up, rather than incentivising those who are achieving to achieve better?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "A bit of both, I'd say. And the third factor is identifying children who are more able. I think that we have a bit of work to do in that regard. I was in a conference for headteachers last week, where there was new data being discussed, and that data showed the progress of children from a certain point, year 6 tests. I think that kind of data will be very useful, because what that data can do is help secondary schools to identify more able children and that they are underachieving. Even though they're doing quite well, that kind of value-added data is very useful. So, I think that that will help as well.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Mark, did you want to pursue these matters further?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I just wanted to ask about the more able and talented stream. It was good to read in your report an increased emphasis on this and to see your awareness of its importance in the PDG as well. Can I just ask—? Would you look at one area regarding schools' engagement with the Seren network, particularly for the more able and talented, and what more Estyn can do through its inspection criteria and otherwise to encourage this from schools?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think Estyn has always been very strongly focused on improving the performance of more able pupils. For example, in last year's annual report I raised it, and a lot of the debate around this now, I think, was generated by some of the things I've said in previous annual reports. We gave a lot of evidence to the—. Paul Flynn, I think, did the—no, who did the report? Paul Murphy did the report. So, we gave evidence to that. And on Seren, I'm particularly proud that my alma mater, Jesus College, is a very strong supporter of the Seren work. So, I'm personally quite interested in the work of Seren. And we look at the performance of more able pupils in all our inspections. It's a particular part of our inspection framework—looking at the relative performance of different groups. So, we look at the different performance of boys and girls, free school meals and non-free school meals, ethnic minorities, but we also look at the performance of more able pupils in particular, and we question schools about how they provide for the more able pupils, and we've referred to Seren in several of our inspection reports.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "And where schools work particularly hard to engage with Seren and take up opportunities from that and push as many pupils as appropriate to work with that, is that something that you would recognise within your inspection reports? And, on the other side, where schools don't do that, is that something you would pull them up on?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we've done that. We've done it in several reports.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Throughout our inspections, we are looking for best practice, because part of our strategy is always to identify where there are weaknesses, but actually to point schools in the direction of where they can find a solution. So, capturing different approaches to more able and talented is part of the role of inspection.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Just briefly, you touched earlier on using the measure of those who are eligible for free school meals as a way to identify children from disadvantaged backgrounds so that you can target this funding. Varied evidence has been given to us on this. Do you have an opinion on whether that's the best way?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "It certainly is a good way of doing it. There is a strong correlation between children who underachieve and that measure, so it is a strong measure. But, there is scope to discuss how exactly it does work. For example, some people say that if you have received free school meals for a period of time and now you're not receiving them, then perhaps you should still be receiving the funding for a period of time, for example. So, there are ways of fine-tuning that measure, I think. It's worth considering those approaches.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Thanks for that. We move on now to Michelle.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Good morning, everyone. You've reported that the proportion of schools making effective use of the PDG remains around two thirds of secondary and primary schools, meaning that a third are still not using that PDG effectively. Why do you think this is?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that sort of proportion broadly corresponds to the schools that don't have particularly good leadership. I think, ultimately, all of these sorts of initiatives come down to strong leadership and effective leadership—that they know how to organise and use those grants effectively. One of the shortcomings that we often identify is evaluation—that money has been spent on a particular way of using the grant, but it has not been evaluated well. So, I think quite a lot of it is to do with generic leadership skills. But those are some of the specific shortcomings to do with evaluation.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Are there any patterns by region or type of school in that?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think there's any patterns that we've identified in terms of region.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "As Meilyr said, it's very strongly linked to leadership capacity.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. What are the most effective uses of PDG, from your point of view? Is there something in particular that you think that schools should be focusing on?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "I think there's a lot of evidence on what constitutes good practice in this area. There's the Welsh Government guidance, there's our guidance, there's a lot of research—the Sutton Trust toolkit—and they're the sorts of things I mentioned earlier. I think that more attention does need to be given to the community-focused element of this work. So, schools do a lot of things that they are in control of—the things I mentioned earlier: things like improving attendance, offering extra-curricular activities, literacy and numeracy support, tracking pupils—all those sorts of things. But an important element of this, I think, is engaging with the learners, but also with parents and the community. I think what we've found is that the most effective schools—the ones that really do make a big difference to this cohort of students—are the ones that do that most effectively.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "I think that there are different situations in different schools, but in the best schools, they evaluate the barriers to learning for their particular children. Often we see that engagement with communities is part of that engagement with families. In Brackla Primary School, in Bridgend, they've got Families at Brackla, and it's a range of activities to engage with families. Families often have had a negative experience of education themselves, and the schools are trying to address some of those concerns. Cefn Hengoed in Swansea, which I'm sure many of you know about, have had an extensive strategy for engaging with the community, with the families, and equipping their children to participate in decisions around the curriculum, making them more confident learners. So, it is about removing the barriers for disadvantaged learners.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. You've made the comment that secondary schools are focusing too much on key stage 4 and not enough on developing pupils' skills in a sustainable way. Can you expand on that and give us a bit more detail on that, please?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think this is sort of generally accepted now. The latest guidance on the grant now says that 60 per cent of it should be spent on key stage 3. I think that acknowledges this general point. But what a lot of schools did with this money was precisely that, to target key stage 4—to have catch-up homework clubs, revision clubs, specifically to get children better GCSE results, and getting C grades, in particular. Of course, that is an important part of your armoury of tools to use, but I think there was too much use of that. Part of the problem with that is that it doesn't either develop the long-term transferable skills that those pupils have, or should have, nor does it produce the kinds of skills that the teachers need as well. So, it's kind of a quick win, a quick-fix solution, while what we feel would be more effective in the long term, and more sustainable in the long term—because if this money goes, then those quick fixes won't be possible—what would be more effective in the long term is to improve the curriculum and the pedagogy, the quality of the teaching, the quality of the curriculum, so that children are naturally enthused by what is on offer, that they attend better because they want to be in school, that they want to learn. So, we feel that getting the curriculum right, tailoring the curriculum to the needs of the pupils in that area, and improving teaching, is a more sustainable long-term solution.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Do you think there's anything in particular driving the focus on the key stage 4?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, again, I think most people would say it is the performance indicators. I think there's a general acknowledgement of that. Again, I said last week—. There was a conference of all the secondary heads in Wales, and that was one of the major discussion points in the conference: how do we get the performance indicators right so that there are no perverse incentives in it?",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "To what extent are decisions being made in schools concerning the application of the PDG actually evidence-based? To what extent are they using research to back up how they're using the PDG or is it effectively just guesswork?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that, of all the areas of school policy, this is the one that's most evidence-based. I think that, generally, schools can do much more about using evidence and research findings, but this particular area is probably the one that schools are strongest at using research in. That's partly because the guidance strongly suggests that you should do that, but also because there is a lot of easily accessible research evidence available. So, there's a lot of research on this. As I mentioned earlier, the Sutton Trust toolkit is a good example where researchers have really tried very hard to simplify all the evidence that exists in a way that schools can use. So, there are little pound signs to show how costly an intervention is and little stars or something to show how many months of gain pupils get out of this particular intervention. So, it makes it much easier for schools to make a decision. But I think what's missing is that you can't just take that evidence as it is, because you have to implement it in your own school, and that then will affect how effective that particular intervention is. Just because it is evaluated by researchers as being generally very effective doesn't mean that you will necessarily implement it effectively. So, it is therefore important that each school does evaluate. So, there are kind of two sides to using research. There's looking at research, but there's also doing your own research and evaluating how effectively you have implemented something. I think that's been a weakness.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Hefin David.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Do you think there's an attendance crisis at key stage 4 for those students eligible for free school meals?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "'Crisis' is maybe too strong a word, but I think there's been a lot of attention given to attendance, quite rightly. Over a long period of time, I was a member of the national behaviour and attendance review board under Ken Reid about 10 years ago. So, there's been a lot of attention on attendance, and that's very important because attendance has a very strong correlation with outcomes.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Of those students at key stage 4, 35 per cent of those eligible for free school meals are attending for 95 per cent of the time, whereas it's 60 per cent for their peers. Is the PDG making an impact on that? You've mentioned engagement with the curriculum. What more can be done?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think what's happening now is that people are targeting their attention on attendance. Attendance has improved in primary and in secondary generally. It has also improved for these cohorts as well, and at a faster rate than the rest of the cohort. So, there have been improvements. Nevertheless, I agree with you totally that it is a major, major problem, and that is why schools do use the PDG specifically to improve attendance.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "But you said they've not used it well enough.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Did I say that? They are using it, and attendance has improved, and the attendance of this cohort has improved more, but there's still a major, major problem. So, I think there needs to be even more attention—",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "So, what—? I'm looking for specifics. What can be done with the PDG?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, as I said earlier, that these are major social issues. So, I think what can be done that hasn't been done currently is to give more attention to the community-focused side of schooling. I think the schools that have done well, that have really improved attendance of this particular group of pupils, are the ones that have taken community relationships very, very seriously and worked with parents.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Yes, you mentioned working with families when you were answering Llyr. How does that happen, though? What does it look like? If I'm a parent, what does it look like?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I'll ask Claire to give you an example. Cefn Hengoed is a good example of a school that has not cracked it but made a lot of progress.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Often, in the best schools, the headteachers consider themselves to be community leaders as well as headteachers, and they often set up arrangements where they engage directly with the families of disadvantaged children or children who are underachieving generally. They try to build very strong relationships with the families so that the school is in a position to either liaise with different agencies or to bring agencies into the school to address some of the issues that are outside school control.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "And where does the PDG come into this, and the use of it?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "This sometimes is used for appointing staff whose role it is to facilitate these arrangements to give one-to-one support to children, to monitor attendance, to visit homes where children are not coming into schools, to try and address what the barriers are in getting them into classrooms.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "And those lessons you've learned from Cefn Hengoed: how are you going to spread that? How does that get spread?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we've done it in a number of ways. Obviously, the first thing we do is the inspection report, and we highlight the practice there. We also have things—. This is an example of our best-practice case studies. We also have conferences as well, where we invite the headteachers from those schools to come and present to other headteachers. We also tweet, use social media, to try and get the message out there. But there's also—",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "This all seems like stuff that's done to teachers. It doesn't seem very engaging.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it is—. Headteachers tell us that learning about best practice from other headteachers is very, very useful. When we had a conference, and when we looked at leadership and improving schools, Cefn Hengoed, along with a number of other schools, presented, and we had very positive feedback from that. So, it is actually schools learning from other schools, and I think the work that the consortia have been doing on school-to-school support as well can contribute to it.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "We're spreading the PDG very thinly now, if we're talking about attendance, and then we talk about exclusion as well. Is it possible that it can have an impact on reducing the higher exclusion rates for EFSM students?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it has the potential to. I think all these strategies have a potential to remove those barriers. But this is—",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "It doesn't sound very convincing.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "But it is a difficult challenge for schools. These are often complex issues that schools are grappling with, and they are trying a variety of approaches.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I'm not being overly critical, but it does seem very hit and miss, to me. Some of the answers that you're giving—they seem to be giving certain examples, but there doesn't seem to be a coherence to it.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it comes back to leadership. Where we have very strong strategic leadership in schools, they are more direct in their approach, and they have a very strong strategy. Where there's weaker leadership, sometimes they are trying different things, perhaps in more of a scattergun approach, rather than trying strategies, evaluating and finding out what works. There is an element of the impact of leadership there.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, Hefin? Okay.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it is true to say that it's difficult to distinguish what some of these better schools do with PDG, as opposed to their general money. If that's what you're getting at, I would totally agree. Schools like Cefn Hengoed will be using more than just the PDG to do this work.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "And it appears to be a lot about the way things are done, as much as how the money is spent.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "It is to do with the ethos and the culture of the school.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thanks for that. We have further questions from Michelle.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. You've observed that the attainment gap between pupils on free school meals and those who aren't on free school meals hasn't closed significantly at any stage of learning. Is the PDG actually working?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I'm in danger of repeating myself now. It's quite difficult to identify the cause and the effect in terms of the PDG. So, where there have been improvements, it's quite difficult to say, 'Well, that's definitely down to the PDG', and similarly vice versa: if it's not working, it's difficult to say that it's because of PDG not being used properly. To come back to something else I said previously, there have been small improvements. Whether you say that that is due to PDG or not is quite difficult, but there have been some improvements. But there hasn't been a major step change in closing that gap, that is true, and I think the conclusion that I draw is that these are major societal challenges and barriers that these young people face. Schools can do a certain amount, and of course they must do a certain amount, but to have a step change you do need to engage with the learners, with the parents and with the community and that's why the more successful schools do actually succeed—it's because they do that. So, I think more of a push on that area at a national level would be welcome.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "In most successful schools, how much is the attainment gap being narrowed, in the schools that make the most effective use of PDG?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, that would vary from school to school. We can look up specific examples for you of specific schools if you like.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Yes, perhaps you could provide a note to the committee on that.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I could have a list of schools and how much they've closed, perhaps.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, I'll move on.",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "Perhaps you could include in that what you would consider to be a significant increase.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Fine.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. In 2017, we saw a re-widening of the attainment gap between pupils on free school meals and those not on free school meals. What effect do you think the Welsh Government's changes to performance measures have had in terms of impact?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, they definitely had a direct impact on it, and probably there might well be an indirect, longer-term impact as well. But, clearly, changing the performance indicators had a direct, immediate effect, because some of those examinations, qualifications, courses that were typically followed by this cohort of students weren't any longer part of the headline performance indicators. So, you've all heard about BTEC Science and the key skills qualifications. Those sorts of things that many of these pupils used to succeed at, and therefore get the performance indicator for the school, no longer count. So, it's had a direct impact, and it's one of the reasons why it's quite difficult to compare the results of one year and another, because of these changes in performance indicators.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that makes sense. Do you think there hasn't been any—? Can we take it from what you've said that there's been a positive improvement, or has it been negative?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "I think there's a growing realisation that secondary schools, key stage 4, is driven overly by performance indicators, and, whatever performance indicator you come up with, there will be unintended consequences. So, it's not, I think, useful to keep changing the performance indicators and think that you will get to a point where you solve the problem. That's not likely to happen. What needs to be done is to have a different approach to accountability that doesn't put so much attention on these performance indicators, because what you're doing is you're just moving the problem around by changing the performance indicators. Some of these vocational courses that I mentioned are a good example of this. So, I think the previous performance indicators encouraged schools to enter, for example, whole cohorts to do BTEC science, and that's not a good idea because the GCSE sciences are better preparation to go on to A-level science, for example. So, you're cutting out the possibility of progression for those pupils. On the other hand, by discouraging—the new performance indicators discourage BTEC and now people are saying, 'We're not offering BTEC at all', and it is suitable for a certain cohort of pupils. So, it's very difficult to get the performance indicators absolutely right if you put so much pressure on schools to actually achieve those performance indicators.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Michelle, I'd just like to bring in Darren at this point.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I share some of your concern around the unavailability now of BTEC in some schools. It strikes me that the decision to discourage the availability of BTEC, which is what the performance measures do, really is sending a message about vocational qualifications that is not helpful, actually, to many young people for whom vocational qualifications may be perfectly suitable. Is that something with which you concur?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's one of the unintended consequences, and what I'm trying to say is that, almost inevitably, there will be unintended consequences. So, you can sympathise with the original decision to change the performance indicators in such a way that it encouraged more pupils to do GCSEs, for example, but it does have that unintended consequence. In theory, there's nothing stopping a school entering pupils now for those qualifications.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Michelle, we need to move on at this stage, so we'll move on Julie Morgan.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, thank you very much. I wanted to ask you about looked-after children and adopted children, and how effective the PDG has been for those groups of children. So, to begin with, how well do the schools know that the PDG does exist for looked-after children and adopted children?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I think what we found—we did a review of looked-after children fairly recently, and we found there was some confusion about where the grant was, who had the grant and how it was spent, and what the priorities of regional consortia were, because I think the grant goes to regional consortia now. I think previously it went to local authorities. So, I think schools aren't quite sure about how it's spent and what the priorities are.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "I think we've seen a bit of improvement there. Meilyr was right; there was a lack of clarity. Schools weren't always aware of the grant and the possibility of using it to support those learners. But the consortia are now using the grant, and there's some training being offered to schools around emotional behaviour and attachment training. There's some school-to-school work that is now being funded by the grant to share best practice, and there are some individual bursaries to support the work. So, from quite a concern, some action now is appearing to be done.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "And on other developments, regional consortia, they've have appointed regional LAC co-ordinators, which has been helpful—",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "For these particular groups?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. It has happened since July 2016 and they're now in post and beginning to work. And, as Claire said—she gave some of the spend that the regional consortia are using, targeted spending. It's an improving area of regional consortia's work. They are improving their tracking of looked-after children. There's an issue about adopted children, I think, because, currently, the pupil-level annual school census data doesn't differentiate whether children are adopted or not. So, they're more difficult to track. But looked-after children are being tracked by the consortia. So, it's an improving area, as Claire mentioned.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Could you give some examples of some work that's been done with looked-after children that you feel has been effective?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we'd probably need to go away and get that from our evidence base. That would be helpful.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "That would be great if you could do that and send something in to us. I've mentioned before in this context that this previous committee, in the previous Assembly, did an inquiry into adopted children, where we met with a lot of adoptive parents. And one of the big issues that did come out was the fact that there was a great deal of concern about some of the insensitivities in the schools in dealing with adopted children, asking for pictures of when the children were born and things like that that didn't show a degree of sensitivity. Do you feel that those sorts of issues are being addressed on a wider basis now, and are they being addressed through this grant, through the PDG grant?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "We probably do need to come back to you with some more evidence on this. This is certainly on our radar. We've got two pieces of work currently that we're doing, which will give a little bit more evidence on this. We're doing a piece of work on managed moves and I think that will be helpful because a lot of these pupils are subject to managed moves, and that's the sort of thing we'll be looking at in that report: what information is transferred from one organisation and from one school to another. I think that generally hasn't been very helpful, and there isn't necessarily a good system for exchanging particularly their educational needs—some of the basic things about their date of birth and whatever are transferred, but their educational needs, when children move from one school to another. So, we've got a report coming out on that. The other piece of work we've been doing is on children who have had adverse experiences in their childhood and how schools deal with those traumatic backgrounds.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "That would, of course, be much wider than looked-after and adopted children.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "It is wider. It is wider. That is wider. But, if you don't mind, we'll try and get you something specifically on—",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "If you could, because there does generally seem to be a lack of knowledge about how effective this work is with looked-after and adopted children. You don't have any information about exclusion rates, for example, with looked-after children, and the way this grant has been used to address those sorts of issues?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I think there is some data available. I don't think exclusions have gone down particularly for that group more than any other group. But there has to be quite a bit of caution used with data on exclusions. The Welsh Government's statistics on that come with a big cautionary note, because that data is subject to a lot of variation—exactly what you're talking about, I think: different counties and different authorities do things differently. And I think the work we're doing on managed moves is very pertinent to that because managed moves don't count as part of the exclusion. So, the exclusion rates will differ from area to area, depending on the policy on managed moves.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Right. And what about attendance? Anything about attendance with looked-after children? Any evidence of—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I'll have to look that up as well I think.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "I think, Chair, if we can have some more information on all of this, it would be great.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, yes, we'll look forward to receiving that further information from you. Mark.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Could I just ask a follow-up to a response that we had last week when we had the EAS consortium in, amongst others? They told us that the specific grant—the pupil deprivation grant—principally for looked-after children, they were responsible for, and that certainly the vast bulk of that was spent on a specific programme, aimed not at LACs specifically, but at all children considered vulnerable at times of transition, particularly into year 7. Does that strike you as an appropriate use of that grant?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I think transition is appropriate—that's quite sensible, but clearly if the grant is for looked-after children, it should be spent on looked-after children.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Are there any other comments on that approach? I think, to take up what EAS has said, there were difficulties about having particular programmes aimed specifically at individual looked-after children, and it was felt that they would benefit vulnerable children, who had more transitions between schools perhaps than others. Is that a sufficient link to justify how that grant is spent? I think this is really in the wider context of how much schools need to make sure this grant goes towards the group it's specified for, and to what extent it is acceptable to blur the boundaries of that and perhaps this is just an example of a higher degree of blurring than some others.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't know enough about this particular initiative to comment, but I would have thought that looked-after children is a very small group and if you were to blur it that much, then it wouldn't be very targeted. I would have thought that if the grant is specifically for looked-after children, it should be more targeted, but I don't know the details.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Just following up on another point, I think you said that the 'PLASS' data—. I apologise that I'm not familiar with the abbreviation, but could you explain if anything was being done to address previously looked-after children who are now adopted and seeking to ensure that they are measured to that data to allow proper tracking. Is that work that's in hand, do you know? Could you just clarify for me the 'PLASS' description and what information system that that refers to?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "That's the information that schools give formally to Welsh Government and every so often, the data that is collected formally by Welsh Government is improved and expanded. Exclusions is a good example. Previously, exclusions weren't collected through PLASC—the pupil level annual school census—and so we had no proper data at all on exclusions. Now that's been improved, but I'm afraid I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think what you were referring to—. I think you were saying that previously looked-after children who are now adopted, unlike looked-after children, that wasn't tracked by the PLASC data.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "That's our understanding. Looked-after children are differentiated, but whether they're adopted or not—whether any children are adopted—isn't picked up in the data at the moment.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "But I think for the grant, it's previously looked-after children who have since been adopted rather than all adopted children, isn't it?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Again, perhaps you could clarify that for us in the further information that you will provide.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Although, you'd probably be better off asking the Welsh Government directly.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I agree—I think that would be better, but just to clarify finally from me, Chair: is your point that, if that group isn't measured, then it is difficult to target them with this grant, and if we want them to be targeted with this grant, we should ensure that they're tracked through that data system?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that sounds sensible.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Mark, I think you have some further questions on Schools Challenge Cymru.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Did you consider that the Schools Challenge Cymru programme was a success?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "It was certainly variable. It lasted for a relatively short period of time, so it's quite difficult to be definitive about the evaluation of it, but it was certainly variable. It varied from school to school. Some were very successful, some didn't make as much improvement. If it had lasted longer, maybe it would have made a difference. Overall, the data made—. There were improvements overall for the 40 schools over and above the general improvement that there was for all schools in Wales. So, you could say that it was successful in that respect. So, it's quite difficult to say whether it was successful, because that was a fairly limited improvement for quite a lot of money. It is, you know, quite a difficult judgment to say whether it was successful or not overall. What strikes one, I think, was the variability in the success of it, and I think that was clear also at an operational level. It was clearly more successful in certain areas where all the various people involved in the work worked together effectively. So, the challenge adviser and the local authority and the regional consortia were all working effectively together. And, in other cases, they weren't, and there had to be changes in personnel and that sort of thing. So, it was quite variable.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Of the five schools within the programme that Estyn actually inspected in the last year of the programme, I think that three of those were in special measures and two required significant improvement. Doesn't that suggest that, as far as Estyn engaged with the programme, your evidence was not to suggest that it was being successful?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Not wildly successful, certainly, but many of these schools would have been in those sorts of categories in the past as well. So, it's not very surprising that many of them still remained. So, it wasn't a huge success, clearly. As you say, many of these schools are still struggling schools, so it hasn't been a panacea.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Bearing in mind your remarks earlier over the focus on key stage 4, in particular the C to D grade boundary, what sort of minimum length of time should a programme like this run for if we are to expect success?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "That's a hugely difficult question to answer, and it is at the core of whether this initiative was successful. There has been research, and people have looked at things like the City Challenge and have suggested that two or three years is too short a period to make a proper evaluation of how successful those particular initiatives were. I don't know of similar evaluations to that particular point in Wales for the Schools Challenge Cymru, but with similar initiatives in England, the suggestion has been that you need at least three years to be able to evaluate it properly.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "The Schools Challenge Cymru advisers, I understand that Estyn met with those termly through the programme. Can you explain how useful that engagement was, and also perhaps compare or contrast it to the ongoing engagement you have with the advisers from the regional consortia?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "You know, the engagement we had with local authorities, and regional consortia, and with Schools Challenge Cymru advisers was not really a problem for us. That was fine. I think the engagement with each other was more of the issue, really. I think the challenge for Schools Challenge Cymru was that it was introduced at a time when regional consortia were just beginning. So, you had a period of time when it wasn't entirely clear what the responsibilities of regional consortia were, compared with local authorities. That has developed and clarified over time, but at that time it wasn't entirely clear. Plus, you were bringing in another player to the school improvement landscape. When all of those different agencies worked well together, then that was a positive thing for schools. When they were all saying the same thing, having that extra resource, extra money, extra attention, was a positive thing; but, clearly, in some cases, that relationship didn't always work, and some schools felt that they were being told different things by different agencies. Clearly, that was one of the reasons why that wasn't as successful.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "So, is Welsh Government now trying to do, through the regional consortia, what it was then trying to do through Schools Challenge Cymru?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, what you had then was you had all three: you had local authorities and regional consortia and Schools Challenge Cymru. So, what you have now is a clearer demarcation of who does what. I don't think what Welsh Government are doing now is the same as what they were trying to do in Schools Challenge Cymru, because I think what Schools Challenge Cymru did, and did well, I think, was identify that there are a small number of secondary schools that have particular challenges and they need over and above the normal local authority/regional consortia support, they need over and above that a certain quantum of support and resource. I think that's specifically what Schools Challenge Cymru was trying to do, and that's not quite the same as what the more universal provision of regional consortia is.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, that's all we have time for in this session, I'm afraid. There are some questions that we haven't reached that we'll write to you on to obtain further responses, and there are some matters that you've identified where you need to provide us with further information also. May I thank you very much for coming along this morning to give evidence? You will be sent a transcript to check for factual accuracy in the usual way. Thank you very much. The committee will now break for just over six minutes until 11:30. Welcome back, for item 3 on our agenda today, scrutiny of Estyn's annual report for 2016-17. We've got a number of areas to cover, but please, Members, feel free to raise whatever issues you think appropriate, because the areas that we've identified are a general guide only. Okay, welcome back to Estyn, our witnesses for this session also. I don't know if we need further introductions. I don't think we do, really; we've already had that on the record. So, we'll move straight into questions then, and Llyr.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. Just to start with, what's your opinion about the way the Government has been introducing reforms in this area over this past inspection cycle? In general, what is your opinion about how effective that has been and how much of an impression has it had?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well the seven year cycle encompasses three Governments if truth be told, but there has been a sense of continuity and progress made in the nature of policy work in general, starting with the fundamental things such as literacy and numeracy in the first instance and also behaviour and attendance, as I said earlier this morning. And then they've developed a far more comprehensive scheme that is at the heart of the development of the curriculum and pedagogy specifically. And I think that that general shift from the foundations—of literacy and numeracy—moving towards the curriculum and pedagogy does make sense. And the other trend that we've seen is to promote collaboration and the self-improvement system, as it's called. I also think that there are a number of progressive countries doing the same kind of thing. So, I think that the general direction is right.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "So, you think—and I'd agree—that the focus on pedagogy is correct and that this culture that appears to be putting more emphasis on self-improvement, and so on, is a positive one. Are there aspects that haven't worked as well in your opinion?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Of course, one accepts that one would like to see development and progress happening far more quickly, but, even in that instance, we need to balance the need that we all have to see progress with the pressures that are on teachers—there are so many things changing. I think that the most striking aspect in looking back over the past seven years is that all aspects of work in the education system—I'm trying to avoid saying 'schools', because it's more than just schools; it's colleges and the system as a whole—have changed. All aspects of that have changed, and I think that we need that—all of those aspects need to be changed and improved—but we need to balance that against the fact that we need to not go so fast, because workload on teachers—. This responsibility of self-improvement means that there is more pressure on teachers and headteachers, ultimately. That's why Estyn was very pleased to collaborate with 15 other bodies to give guidance on workload for teachers, because we have to be very careful to get that right as well.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "But is it disappointing, then, in the latest annual report, that you are to all intents and purposes coming to the conclusion that the performance is consistent with how it has been over the past inspection cycle? Would you not expect some kind of progress or something more significant in terms of outcomes?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "That's one way of looking at it. Another way, as I said earlier, is that all of these things are changing and, under those particular circumstances, that it's a good thing that teachers and the education system have been able to maintain standards and the quality of education.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "The sector, of course, is continually evolving. We know that a number of these reforms are still playing out and are still being developed and introduced. Of course, there is a risk that we are in this situation continuously, and therefore settling for managing to maintain, for me, perhaps wouldn't show enough ambition. Is there a risk that we will find ourselves continually—? As you say, the inspection cycle has seen three Governments. There are changes and different policies and priorities being implemented. From what you say, that does prevent the development of the sector.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "We are in the middle of a period of major change, and you're right that there is more change to come. The new curriculum will reach key stage 4 in around seven years again, so we're genuinely in the middle of this period of change. Perhaps 'revolutionary' is too strong a word, but it is the biggest change that I've seen in my career. You have to go back to the 1980s and 1990s to see similar changes. Of course, we all wish to see swifter progress being made, but what that means in practice is that you push more changes through, or that you push through the changes that we currently have more quickly. There was discussion, for example, about when the new curriculum should be introduced. Those are the kinds of practical questions that arise, and you have to remember that, in the classroom, what you will have are individual teachers having to prepare for a new GCSE, a new A-level, and there are new specifications in that regard, and it's a great deal of work. So, we have to be very careful when we say that we need to accelerate that process.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "But you understand the point I was making about the risk of finding ourselves like this continually and therefore to say, if we were to interpret your conclusion in the recent report, that outcomes have been consistent over the inspection cycle doesn't mean that we are pushing enough or that the reforms happen in a way that allows progress in performance terms.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "I would wish to see that we wouldn't be in this position continuously. I think that—",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "But you've just suggested that there are seven years ahead of us yet in terms of introducing these reforms.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "But I do think that the reforms, in looking at them holistically, are fundamental, as I was saying. You have to go back 30, 40 years to see something similar. So, I do think that we need to look at—. One of the problems—. You ask what hasn't worked in the past. Well, I think one of the things, and it's difficult to answer that question, but one of the things that hasn't worked in the past is just doing one aspect of the system. We need to look at transforming the entire education system at the same time, because if you just tinker with one part then it might have an unintended effect in another place. So, I think we need to look at the system as a whole, and I think that what's happening at the moment is a structural change to the system.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I think that's a fair enough point. What's your assessment, therefore, of how able or how ready schools are to deal with, in moving forward now, all of these changes and reforms?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said, I think that they have coped with a whole host of changes, and that's something to be praised. We are disappointed the standards haven't improved as much as we would have liked to have seen, but we also need to be congratulating the workforce for getting to grips with so many changes in a relatively short period. So, that does give one confidence that they will be able to cope with other changes in future. So, I am confident in that sense, but we do have to be careful in looking out for the workload, because the culture of promoting is one of giving more responsibilities to teachers, to schools, to colleges and to headteachers. So, we have to be very careful that that workload doesn't become excessive.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Would you also share the concern that the reduction in school budgets will worsen those risks that you referred to?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. As you'll know, international research evidence shows that it is not the amount of funding that goes into education systems that dictates how effective they are. But it is true to say that, if you have financial cuts, that does cause practical problems for headteachers in having to lay off staff, and so on. So, it does take a lot of time and energy to deal with cuts.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Thanks.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Diolch yn fawr, Llyr. Mark.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Could I ask the reasons for Professor Donaldson being asked to undertake a review of Estyn's role?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think any good organisation would welcome external scrutiny. I would say that, wouldn't I, because I'm an inspector, but I think it's important that we practise what we preach. There have been in the past systems of quinquennial reviews. I think it is healthy for anybody to have that sort of external view, and I think in particular we're proud in Estyn that we are a body that is developing and trying new things and evolving continuously. So, I think it's that. But if you were to ask, 'Why now?', it's because of the extent of the education reform that we're particularly facing. So, I think it's a good thing to do at any given time, but considering the range and speed of change that we're facing in education now, I thought it was particularly important that we ask Graham Donaldson to look at the implications for our work of all this education reform.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "What have been the biggest benefits to Wales of having Estyn as an independent body inspecting schools and other institutions in Wales compared to the work that Ofsted has done in England?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we have very good relationships with Ofsted and with Education Scotland and the Education Training Inspectorate in Northern Ireland. I wouldn't like to compare—I don't think it would be fair to compare ourselves. We do things slightly differently, but we benefit a lot from each other. We have inspectors from Ofsted or from Scotland, from Northern Ireland, on our inspections. We shadow them, and our inspectors go to their countries. So, we're working quite closely with the home countries, but also further afield with Holland and with the Republic of Ireland, for example. So, we're always, all of us, learning from one another about what we think they do well and what they think we do well. We're constantly learning from each other. I wouldn't think it's fair for me to say what I think—you know, where we're better than another country.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Of course. I'm not asking you to criticise Ofsted. I agree that wouldn't be appropriate. But I think what is fair for me to ask is: perhaps could you highlight one or two areas where you believe that Estyn has a particular difference of emphasis and approach from Ofsted?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I think one of the things we've done and we've developed over many years is the use of the nominee and peer inspectors in particular. So, we've got, I think, a really good tradition of doing that in Wales, and when we do meet other inspectorates, they're always very interested in that part of our work. We're a very small organisation; we're only about 50 HMIs. We inspect a wide range of sectors, as you know, but the bulk of that inspection work is actually done now by peer inspectors. So, I think that, and the idea of a nominee, is also of interest to other inspectorates across the world. So, there's always someone from the body that we are inspecting on the inspection team. They're part of all the discussions so they actually understand how we've come to our report, and they can then help the organisation move forward after we've left.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "I've clashed with Welsh Ministers on the absence of league tables for schools in Wales, with less accountability for their results than is the case in England. I note it as a parent myself. But, from, I think, at some point in 2014, you started in your inspection reports of primary schools putting the comparison of how they were doing compared to other schools and local authorities and nationally, as well as what you've described as their family of schools, and being more transparent over their key stage 2 results. So, what led you to do that? What difference has that made? And was that decision taken by Estyn on its own account, or was that something that was agreed with Welsh Ministers?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I did listen to Plenary, so I've heard you raise this issue. I'm sure it's inadvertent on your part, but you've confused absolutely everyone with this.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "I'm pleased to let you set the record straight, then.",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "It's not actually true. The data that you refer to is published by the Welsh Government on My Local School. So, if you want to know about your own school or any other school, you should go onto that website. That's hugely—. It's very clear. There's a huge amount of data on it, but it's very, very clear. You can look at it in terms of tables and data and graphs and it shows all that data that you refer to, and that's the right place to have it. We do refer to some of that data in our reports, because our reports are based on evidence. Most of it is first-hand evidence that we see in the classroom and see in pupils' work, but we triangulate that with data and with what parents and pupils say and interviews with staff. So, we refer to that data and we always have referred to the data. Pre 2014, it was in the body of the text, and then after 2014 we put it in an appendix. We had a mid-cycle review and people felt it would be better in an appendix than in the body of the text, but it was always there. There's pros and cons on whether it should be in the body of the text or in an appendix.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Well, certainly, the data became clear to me in reports after 2014 in a way it wasn't before. So, I will leave that there. Can I just highlight a few of what I felt were either particularly striking statistics or comparisons or points that were made in your annual report of potential concern? You state that headteachers do not understand the principles of good pedagogy or good practice in about three quarters of schools—this relates to the foundation phase. I find that quite a shocking statistic. Do you share that view?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. That's why I highlighted it in my foreword. I think there is a general consensus about the benefits of the foundation phase. There's a lot of research, and our own evidence shows that, where it is implemented well, pupils benefit a lot from it and they're well prepared to be independent thinkers. So, it's a development that we should be proud of in Wales, I think, the foundation phase. It's a great thing. But, we are disappointed that only about a quarter of primary schools are implementing it fully. There's a whole range of reasons, as I discuss in the annual report, why that might be the case. It is quite an innovative idea, and I think it's misunderstood by saying it's learning through play, because that's a bit too simplistic a definition of it. We have written a report recently on good practice in the foundation phase, so that we can try and explain clearly to people what the benefits of it are and how best to implement it. But I think it is true that too many headteachers—. Many of them might not have taught in foundation phase, they might not have that infant background, they might have a junior-school background. There might not have been enough—well, we say there wasn't enough training—or there might be people who missed any training that there was then. So, overall, there is a large number of leaders who don't fully appreciate what the foundation phase could deliver.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Darren—is it on this?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, it is on this. I was just wondering—. I mean, one of the problems that I know you've identified in the past is this lack of good practice being able to travel into all parts of Wales, and, of course, we've got local authorities, we've got regional consortia, we've got the Welsh Government—all of which want to see good practice replicated where possible. What opportunities are there, perhaps, to develop some other further opportunities for good practice to be shared and promoted? I know that the Wales Audit Office, for example, has its good practice exchange. Is there something similar that schools can engage with to make things happen?",
"speaker": "Darren Millar AM"
},
{
"content": "It's a good question. I mean, specifically to do with foundation phase, there is a foundation phase—I can't remember what it's called now—excellence network I think, which is being relaunched. I think it was supposed to be relaunched during the snow period. So, there are networks being established. There's one for mathematics—a national network for excellence in mathematics—there's one for science and there's one for foundation phase in particular. So, I think it is a challenge that we haven't cracked yet in Wales: how do we make sure that good practice does travel? I think one specifically for foundation phase is a good idea, because we've got a specific issue with the foundation phase.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "When you say that—",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Mark, just before you go on, I think Julie wanted to come in on this point as well.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I just wondered if you could give us some examples about how the foundation phase is not being implemented in the true spirit of the foundation phase in the three quarters of schools that you think fall—.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, what we mean by that is schools not necessarily teaching badly, but in a more traditional way. And where we've seen that most obviously is in year 1 and year 2. Some schools actually reverted, after the introduction of the new tests, from what was pedagogy that was in line with the foundation phase. And basically, if I understand it correctly, it's more to do with the children making their own choices about what they do. And that is pretty common in nursery and reception classes, but it's less common in year 1 and year 2.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "I think it is very much, as Meilyr said, the difference between a pupil-led learning experience or a teacher-led learning experience. Because of the lack of training and maybe the confidence to pursue that active and experiential learning approach, teachers have tended to resort to what they feel more comfortable with, which is more of an adult-led learning—often still high quality, but it doesn't ensure that the learners become far more independent, far more engaged in their learning. So, it's almost holding children back to an extent. They're making good progress, but they could be making even more progress.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Mark.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "So, when you say that some teachers are sort of holding children back, and in the report that three quarters of schools don't understand the principles of good pedagogy or good practice, what you mean is that teachers are using traditional methods, including whole-class teaching, rather than moving towards a pupil-led learning experience and one that you said was oversimplified as learning through play. May not the issue here therefore be that Estyn is seeking to impose this different approach on teachers who think that they are better able to teach children in the traditional way, which, at least in my experience, would be supported by quite a number of parents?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it's Estyn that's imposing it. That's the national policy.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Do you support that policy?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we do, actually. We do. Our evidence, as I said, is that, when it is implemented properly, pupils do actually gain from it. But we're not imposing it, and what we're saying is that headteachers are not necessarily understanding it. I think there is quite a lot of jargon around it. I was just looking in the annual report. Quite unusually, in this section, we have had to actually explain some of the technical terms, like 'continuous provision'. So that's, I think, one of the reasons why people don't understand it fully. That's why we did produce this quite substantial bit of work, trying to unpack what this actually means in practice and giving a lot of good examples of the practice.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "You referred to evidence of this approach working. Given the timing of when it was brought in and where we are now, has that really had time to distil through the system and give compelling evidence that this approach works better than more traditional approaches?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it has, to be fair. I think this has, because we're talking about a lot of developmental work related to the foundation phase prior to 2010, but it became compulsory for all schools to deliver it from 2010 onwards. So, that gives enough time for children to have been through the whole of the foundation phase onto key stage 2, and we can see the effect of it. In the schools where there is good practice in the foundation phase, we can see the effect when we inspect on key stage 2 children.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "So, would you be confident about this, in the next few years, feeding through into an improvement in Programme for International Student Assessments, rather than a further deterioration?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think that if we did what Darren was talking about, getting more schools to share good practice, I think it will expand and more schools will take it on, yes.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay. On the sharing of good practice, you put emphasis in the report on this being an improving area and trend for the future as well, but I think you did raise concerns that it wasn't monitored or evaluated sufficiently well, particularly where one school was supporting another. How should that be done better?",
"speaker": "Mark Reckless AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think this has been a theme of many of the issues we've raised: that, whatever the initiative, you can't tell whether it's been successful or not unless you evaluate it properly. So, those evaluation skills, I think, are very important. I think that, with the development of the national academy for educational leadership, I would hope that research skills and evaluative skills would be part of the kind of training that headteachers get that maybe in the past they didn't. So, that becomes more of the day-to-day work of schools—that naturally, whenever you do something, you evaluate it afterwards. We've evaluated a lot of the school-to-school work. We've published two or three reports on it, and we've identified what we think is good practice and not-so-good practice.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, Mark? If we move on at this stage—I wonder, before other Members come in, if I could ask about community-focused schools. Quite a lot of what we discussed earlier was around the importance of getting families and the community more involved in education, and one way of doing that, I think, is through community-focused schools that are very much accessible to the community, linked well with outside organisations, having an extended school-day offer. We have the twenty-first century schools programme, but we have a lot of schools existing that haven't been part of that. I just wondered to what extent Estyn might encourage or highlight the need to encourage greater consistency in community-focused schools across Wales, because I think there is a feeling that it is very inconsistent.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we would very much be happy to support anything like that. We discussed it earlier. We were talking about targeting vulnerable learners earlier this morning. We see that as, particularly, a solution for that long-standing issue we have in Wales in particular. So, yes, we do have good examples of good practice. We mentioned some of them earlier this morning. I've puzzled about this. I think there was a bit of a misunderstanding about the term 'community-focused school'. I think it became thought of as meaning the community just uses the facilities in the evening and, of course, it's a much, much broader concept than that. I think some schools particularly didn't like the community using their facilities in the evening, and that became, I think, possibly part of the reason why community-focused schools didn't become more popular. The way I look at it is, as Claire was explaining earlier about the school offering all kinds of services to people—you know, family learning, those sorts of nurture groups, all those sorts of educationally focused services available from the school, and generally building relationships. They're more to do with the culture than the actual building and the facilities. But, yes, we certainly have seen and identified where that good practice exists.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "So, if there might be a mechanism that could have community-focused schools working in the way that you've described right across Wales, would Estyn be in favour of such a mechanism?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely, yes.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Could I just ask one further question, then, before, as I said, I bring other Members in? There is a particular concern at the moment—and has been for some time—about white working-class children, and perhaps particularly boys, not attaining as they should through our education system. Is that something that Estyn recognises? Has Estyn done much work on that, and if so, what is that work?",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "We've done work on boys and girls, and we've done work on deprived children—you know, identified, as we were discussing this morning, by eligibility for free school meals. We haven't specifically looked at white working-class boys, but a lot of the solutions, and a lot of the good practice that we have identified generally, through the PDG and whatever I think is the way forward for that particular cohort as well.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "So, you wouldn't see the need for a particular focus or a particular piece of work to identify whether there are aspects of education that might particularly benefit that group.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I wouldn't object to doing a piece of work on that, in case we have missed something, but I suspect it would be the same schools that do well with that cohort that we've identified already for the same reasons, I suspect.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Michelle.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. To what extent has the rate of improvement differed between the primary and secondary sectors?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not sure if there's been a difference in the rate of improvement, but certainly I've raised in this annual report, and indeed in previous annual reports, the difference between primary and secondary. We've got 7 in 10—nearly three quarters—of primary schools doing well and about half of secondary schools. So, I did open debate on why that is the case in last year's annual report. There are several reasons, I think. Generally, there is a widening of gaps when you go from primary to secondary, but also it's from foundation phase to key stage 2 to key stage 3 to key stage 4. There's a general widening of the gender gap, for example. There's a widening of the free-school-meals gap and so forth. So, there are particular challenges facing secondary schools that don't exist in primary. I should say that what you get in secondary schools is greater variability. So, there's actually more excellence in secondary schools according to our inspections than in primary, although the overall proportion of good or better schools is higher in primary than in secondary. So, I think it is a challenge to think why this is the case. It's partly because of the challenges of adolescent, young people. That is part of it. I think also, although I've got no evidence for this, it's probably more difficult for that community focus to work in a larger secondary school than a smaller primary school. You go to primary schools, you often see the parents much more engaged than in secondary school. So, I think that's a bit more of a challenge as well. So, there is a whole range of issues. The other one, of course, is the one we were talking about earlier this morning, the pressure on secondary schools to address performance indicators and examinations in particular. Another possible reason is the structure of secondary schools is subject-based, departmental-based, so children will get 10 to 12 different teachers. In primary school, for a whole year, they will have the same teacher. It's easier, therefore, in a primary school for the school to see the child as an individual and recognise their problems and their needs as a whole. So, I think there is a whole range of issues that explains or goes part way to explaining what you've identified.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. You touched on this quite a bit in your earlier evidence, but you said in the annual report that there's a danger that accountability measures might be having an effect on the advice being given to pupils about subjects they study. Do you have any evidence of that or is that a perception?",
"speaker": "Michelle Brown AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think everyone agrees that there's very strong evidence about that. We discussed examples this morning. When you change a performance indicator, the examination pattern changes. We talked about examples like BTEC science this morning. There's a very, very direct and immediate impact on them. There's plenty of evidence of that.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, Michelle? Perhaps we'll move on at this stage—we haven't got a great deal of time left—if that's okay. Julie.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "I wanted to ask about special schools in terms of your views about the standards in special schools—whether you've got any views on that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we highlighted special schools as a successful sector in the annual report, as we have over many years. Over 90 per cent of them are good or better. It's a very successful sector. The small number of schools that don't do quite as well tend to be the schools that deal with children with emotional and behavioural difficulties. But the sector as a whole is a good example of sharing good practice. They work very, very well together. They're constantly—. It's difficult to say why that is in this particular sector, as opposed to other sectors. Possibly they don't have an overlap in catchment areas, they're quite geographically separate, so they don't feel as if they're in competition with one another. But they certainly work very well together, sharing good practice, doing peer reviews of each other. So, it is a successful sector.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "And that includes the independent sector.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, I should have said that was mainly to do with the maintained sector. The independent sector tends to focus maybe on those children with emotional and behavioural difficulties, so they have the more difficult task to begin with. But because they're independent, they are, to some extent, in competition with one another. So, we have seen improvement in that independent special sector over the cycle. That's partly down to the work we do in Estyn. We visit them on an annual basis to make sure that they're addressing all our recommendations, and continue to meet the needs of those pupils. And also, I think there's been a trend where more of those independent schools now have—. Several of them have the same owner, so they share good practice amongst that little chain of schools. So, that has been a trend we've seen over time as well.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Right. And what about pupil referral units? How are the standards there?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, they're more variable. I think they have a lot of challenges. We've contributed a lot of evidence to the various working groups that have been looking at EOTAS—that's education other than at school. Half the children in EOTAS—educated other than at school—are in PRUs. So, we've done a lot of work about that. ADEW, which is the Association of Directors of Education in Wales, have now set up a national body to share good practice amongst PRUs, so I think that is a very positive step forward, because that sharing, I think, wasn't happening with PRUs. I think what we need to do with PRUs is to get them to be more of a part of the education system as a whole. They tend to be sort of semi-detached a little bit from the system. So, the more we can do to involve them in national events, and also, I think, make their governance more like that of a school so that they become more similar to schools—that makes it easier for them to share practice with schools.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you very much. Llyr.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I'd just like to spend a minute or two looking more specifically at post-16 education. The percentage of further education colleges who have reached a good or better standard has increased, of course, over the past inspection cycle. I'd just like to ask what you think is responsible for that, and are there any lessons we can take out of that and transfer to other sectors within education?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for the question, but I'm going to ask Simon to answer.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "As you're aware, the number of colleges from 22 to 12, and I think those mergers resulted in establishments that were stronger in terms of their leadership in particular. That leadership, I think the characteristics we have seen in the 'good' or 'better'—as you say, 80 per cent leadership good or better—has been a culture of openness, a culture of clarity of purpose about where the college is going. High staff morale has been maintained, because a number of those colleges—. Obviously, if you're merging large colleges as they did in north Wales, keeping staff morale high is quite a skill, and I think the leadership have done that very well. They've also supported managers at all levels, and they've encouraged managers to support staff at all levels. So, it's become a very collaborative, very supportive organisation. I think another characteristic of the FE sector is that it's got very strong governance arrangements. I did a training session for college governors about a month ago, and what struck me was the breadth of experience of the college governors, from industry, from academia. They are a very challenging set of governors, I think, who hold the senior leadership to account in the colleges, and that helps to push standards forward. Teaching is 'good' or 'better' in 70 per cent of colleges because the senior leadership team are encouraging teachers in colleges to innovate, encouraging them to engage actively in performance management systems, and to become reflective practitioners in the colleges. And this is impacting, obviously, on the standards at the end of the day. So, I think those are the key features.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "And how many of those do you think could effectively be transferred or encouraged in other sectors?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "But I think one sector that—. I think the other post-16 sector, which is work-based learning—",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Well, yes, I was going to ask you. Conversely, of course, there's a different experience there.",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, there is a contrast. And we do have concerns about work-based learning. And, again, those concerns tend to sit mainly with the leadership. As we said in the annual report, standards are 'good' or 'better' in only 50 per cent of work-based learning companies, mainly because the completion rates of learners are not what we'd expect, the progression that learners make isn't what we'd expect. And that is mainly due to the way in which the leadership teams monitor progress—monitor progress in themselves as a provider, but, more importantly, the way they manage sub-contractors, because, as you will already know, there's 19 lead providers; there's about 100 training providers. And the companies that are doing better, or the training providers doing better, are those that have got a firm grip on their sub-contractors, and, most importantly, they put quality as the top part of any agenda at any meeting. And, of course, if you're challenging your sub-contractors about quality, that will impact on standards of teaching, and, hopefully, ultimately, on standards of performance on the learners. And I think, to go back to your original question, Llyr, the sort of leadership models that FE colleges have, I think some of the work-based learning providers would be wise to start to emulate those. It's beginning to happen, because FE is getting more engaged in the work-based learning world, so I think some of those behaviours will start to rub off on the companies.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "So, who would you look to drive some of those changes through then? Is it the sector themselves, or to what extent can Government and others do things?",
"speaker": "Llyr Gruffydd AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as you know, Meilyr alluded to the changes across all sectors. We've got PCET—we've got the post-compulsory education and training reforms under way. The Welsh Government is looking at the implementation of Hazelkorn's recommendations. So, ultimately, that will start to drive the sectors closer together in post-16. But I think, in the shorter term, some of the work that groups like Colegau Cymru and the National Training Federation Wales are doing, sharing best practice, bringing the colleges and the training companies together, is beginning to help. I'm going to the national training federation conference tomorrow in Cardiff, and I notice the attendance there—there's a lot of FE colleges attending, senior staff of FE colleges, as well as from the work-based training companies. So, that sort of osmosis of good practice is beginning to happen quite naturally.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Okay, Llyr? We haven't got very long left, but we've got five minutes or so for some further questions from Hefin David.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
},
{
"content": "With regard to local authorities, you found shortcomings in your 2010-14 inspection in 15 of the 22. And one of the things that struck me in the report was where you said that you found ineffective processes for self-evaluating improvement within those authorities, but you've also said that there's been a high turnover of directors and new directors in place in many of them. Has that had a positive effect on that self-evaluation process?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "As you're aware, over the past three years, out of the 22 authorities, there have been 40 new directors, over the past three years. Those directors have got a range of experience. Some of those directors are very experienced. Other ones have come from headteachership fairly recently. So, that's one factor. I think the other factor is that the status of education directors has changed quite significantly. Some local authorities are a member of the corporate team and they are directors of education and children's services, so they've got very broad portfolios. In other ones, they're being treated more like heads of service, so heads of department level.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "I know that Caerphilly went in the opposite direction—from having a chief education officer to then appointing a director, I think.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry?",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "In Caerphilly county borough, they went from having a chief education officer and now have got a director again. But, in many cases, they're the same people, aren't they? It's just that their roles are changed.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, it's the changes as the corporate structure of councils shift and change. I think the other thing that's happened, of course, with the role of the director of education, is, because of the regional consortia now doing the school improvement function, a large chunk of that role has now moved to the consortia. So, I think it's early days to say what the impact of that new cohort of directors will be, but, of course, we're starting a new inspection cycle in September. We don't do pilots. We looked at Neath Port Talbot in December; we looked at Denbighshire in February. Those reports are not yet published, but what I can say is that neither of those authorities are in follow-up.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "But you said, even though it's not in follow-up, it was still showing signs of not being able to reflect effectively on improvement—in the report.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Not in those two authorities.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Right, okay, but some of those not in follow-up were not reflecting effectively on their improvement—is the statement that was made in the report.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "What we're seeing, and we've seen this before in the previous cycle, is that the performance of some authorities is patchy. There are authorities that we have concerns about. Those are the authorities—. I think I said to committee last year those authorities are ones that we held improvement conferences in last year. That was to get the senior leadership—both political and officer-led leadership—and the consortia and Welsh Government and the Wales Audit Office and, as it was, the Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales, around the table to get those senior leadership teams to actually identify what the longer-term issues are, to surface those issues and to put together an action plan. We're revisiting those three authorities very, very shortly. The first of the revisits is in April to see what progress they've made over the past 12 months or so.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And, with things like the curriculum reforms, you've identified the new directors in place, but you've said that, although they're new directors, they're actually very experienced in education, so therefore you're confident that they're going to manage the reforms well as they are developed in the next few years.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think one development, and I've raised this in committee before, was—. One of our concerns, apart from the fact that there was a large turnover of directors, was what sort of level of training senior leaders and middle managers were getting in those authorities. One of the things that I'm quite pleased to report is that the Association of Directors of Education in Wales and Welsh Government have stepped up to address that issue. Last year, all serving directors attended residential courses run by the Staff College Wales, facilitated by ADEW, and ADEW have just finished the first round of director—. The name of the course is the 'Welsh future leaders in education' course and 26 people have just finished that—aspiring directors. They're preparing for another cohort in September. That course, again, is developed by the Staff College Wales, but it has a lot of external input. They're putting in directors and chief executives from Scotland, they're putting in headteachers of very successful schools in England, who've got current grass-roots experience to share with these aspiring directors. So, I think the concerns that we had previously about the professional learning for middle managers and leaders in local authorities are being addressed. The proof will be in the pudding when we start to do the inspection cycle, but at least the issue now is being tackled.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Can I just look at, then, consortia? One of the criticisms in the report was that national policy wasn't being put in context—I think that was the statement in the report—in certain consortia. Can you elaborate on what you meant by that?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, when we talked, we said that—. Well, two things are at play. One is that the national model for regional working is being revised at the moment, and that work is ongoing by Welsh Government. That is to bring greater consistency to the four consortia, because one of our concerns, which we expressed in this report and we expressed in previous years, is that, although the national model had a particular approach back in 2012, when Robert Hill did the first review, it had a particular approach to the consortia being fairly similar, over the years, they've gone in four different directions. To be fair, over the past couple of years, the consortia are now collaborating much closer together. They are working together—for example, I mentioned earlier about the regional co-ordinators for LAC. Those four people are meeting regularly. So, they've all got different co-ordination roles in their regions. Whereas before they were working more in silos, they are now working much closer together. So, I think what we were referring to, and what we were talking about in the report, is the fact that the consortia need to have a more consistent approach across all four regions. But that will certainly be driven by the new national model.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And the relationships with local authorities, you said that the sharing of information with the local authorities is not always acted upon by local authorities—from the consortia. Is that a failure of communication, or is that something that sits with the local authority to acknowledge?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it's a failure of communication. In the cases where some authorities haven't acted sufficiently in intervening in schools or in issuing warning letters, the consortia have been quite clear. The challenge advisers have highlighted these issues. It's the authority that hasn't acted as swiftly as we would expect it to. But, again, I think that is beginning to improve, because the local authorities are quite sensitive to the fact we are now going to be re-inspecting them and looking at them, and that is one of the issues we'll be picking up on.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And, in order to do their jobs, the consortia need to be suitably resourced. Are they, and are they fit for the challenges ahead?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "It's not for us to comment on whether each consortium is sufficiently funded or not, but what we would say is that, generally, in the past, they've spent perhaps too large a proportion of their funds on challenge work and not enough funding on support work, but that, again, is moving. We've picked up that GwE, for example, is in the process of renaming their challenge advisers 'support advisers', because they're moving their culture more over to supporting schools to deal with all the raft of reforms that Meilyr mentioned, and that is, it seems to me, an entirely sensible way to go.",
"speaker": "Simon Brown"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, that brings this session to an end. So, thank you all very much once again for giving evidence to committee today. Once again, you will be sent a transcript to check for factual accuracy. Diolch yn fawr. Okay, the next item on our agenda today, item 4, is papers to note. We have one paper to note, which is a letter from the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee to the Welsh Government regarding the Hwb programme. Is committee content to note that paper? Yes. Thank you very much. Item 5, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting. Is committee content so to do? Okay. Thank you very much. We will move into private session.",
"speaker": "John Griffiths AM"
}
] |
education_3 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"6"
]
],
"topic": "Debate over whether standards of curriculum are slipping during the reform"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"7",
"49"
]
],
"topic": "Difficulties carrying out the curriculum reform in secondary school"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"50",
"79"
],
[
"121",
"127"
]
],
"topic": "Inspection of local authorities' educational services"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"77",
"106"
]
],
"topic": "Skill development of different subjects as numeracy and literacy"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"107",
"115"
]
],
"topic": "Concerns regarding the students' economic background"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"116",
"120"
]
],
"topic": "Talk over schools' ability to help students with their emotional and mental well-being"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "A curriculum reform was to carry out throughout Wales. The group discussed with Estyn about the obstacles and difficulties faced by secondary schools when bringing the reform into practice, such as teacher shortage and lack of funds, and how Estyn tackled them. Then the council questioned Estyn over their inspection over local authorities' educational services including regional consortia and independent schools. In addition, the group also talked about specific skill development of literacy and numeracy, concluding that literacy should be the top priority of the progress. They also dug into concerns regarding students' economic background and the schools' ability to care for students' mental well-being.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "First of all, although a number of primary schools have surplus funds, still a lot of secondary schools are in deficit and low on funds. Also recent years have seen a shortage of teachers with appropriate initial teacher training. There are concerns as well that schools in the bottom layer may find it difficult to adapt to the new curriculum and have little improvement on teaching quality.",
"query": "Summarize the difficulties carrying out the curriculum reform faced by secondary school.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"7",
"49"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Meilyr Rowlands thought it was a challenge to recruit new teachers and improve the initial training.In the long term, he believed that education should become more attractive for young people and more mature people to go into, while in the short term, looking at initial teacher training would be the top priority.",
"query": "What did Meilyr Rowlands think of the shortage of teachers?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"14",
"22"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The children in secondary schools themselves are older and therefore have greater challenges. As a result, it's also more difficult to engage with the parents of older children than younger children.",
"query": "What did Meilyr Rowlands say about the additional challenge for secondary schools?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"26",
"26"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "There were 12 percent of secondary schools under Estonian review and 11 percent of them were in special measures. He worried that these schools lacked enough support and fundings to adapt to the new curriculum reform and face greater difficulties.",
"query": "What was Sian Gwenllian's concern about the schools in the bottom layer?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"46",
"47"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Jassa Scott believed they had prioritized the work that schools were doing around literacy and numeracy, yet the support for schools to develop digital competence were a bit weaker. Also their support for secondary schools had less impact across the consortia than for primary schools.",
"query": "What did Jassa Scott talk about the work of regional consortia?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"54",
"56"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "They agreed that the first area they would look specifically at would be the work of consortia to support curriculum work. Local government legislation were also under debate, which was an opportunity to adapt the inspection to look specifically at their work.",
"query": "What did Jassa Scott and Janet Finch-Saunders agree on the priority of the inspections?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"57",
"60"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "She held the view that children aged 3-5 were often introduced to things too early when they're not at that developmental stage. As a result, in the long term children would lose confidence with a lot of negative impressions.",
"query": "What did Claire Morgan talk about the skill development in early year settings?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"77",
"84"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "He believed literacy still needed to be the top priority, because it was something that underpinned the rest of education. Yet work was still needed to be done to continue prioritizing it.",
"query": "What was the top priority in skills developing, according to Meilyr Rowlands?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"87",
"88"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Meilyr Rowlands thought it was a fairly clear good news to see the improvements on the PISA results in maths, which could be attributed to the new GCSE mathematics numeracy. Also they agreed it was a good news story to see much more mathematics knowledge to be applied in a problem-solving situation. With regard to the effects of schools, Meilyr Rowlands held that the school had a larger effect on mathematics and science than reading.",
"query": "What did the group talk about the progress in numeracy skills?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"101",
"104"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "There was a two-pronged approach to solve the problem. One is the new curriculum, which was all about improving the quality of teaching and learning in the classroom. Poor pupils could gain more from it than their peers. The other one was to have a community-focused approach to schools through helping the pupils and their families.",
"query": "What did Meilyr Rowlands say school could do about the poverty gap between pupils?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"107",
"108"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Because they had to make sure that more able and talented children do well, who are mainly from poor backgrounds.",
"query": "Why did pupils from better-off backgrounds do less well, according to Meilyr Rowlands?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"111",
"114"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "First of all, secondary school pupils got to notice the differences between their everyday life at school and somehow felt not cared about. It was also more of a challenge for a secondary school to provide an effective set of support from that whole-staff awareness of some of the challenges. That is to say, it was more difficult for teachers in secondary schools to pick up signs that pupils may be struggling.",
"query": "Why did Jassa Scott believe it was more difficult for secondary schools to prioritize mental health and well-being?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"117",
"119"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our scrutiny session on Estyn's annual report 2018-19. I'm very pleased to welcome Meilyr Rowlands, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector, Estyn; Jassa Scott, strategic director at Estyn; and Claire Morgan, strategic director at Estyn. Thank you all for attending. We're looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. We'll go straight into questions from Suzy Davies.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Bore da. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for the papers upfront, in which you say that the most striking feature of the education system, looking forward, of course is the curriculum and the change that that's bringing. How can we be sure that, during this period of change, standards don't slip? And also, from the point of view of scrutiny, will we be back in a situation where we're being told, 'You can't compare one set of results against the previous year's results, because of the nature of the change'?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Bore da, bawb. Thank you for the invitation to come here. I think that's a good question. I think any kind of major educational reform has got risks attached to it, particularly if those changes were made too quickly. I think this process of reform has been going on in the background for a few years now, so I think there is a track record of standards and provision not slipping. We've seen small incremental improvements. So, overall, I think we can be fairly confident that standards won't slip during this period of preparation.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Can I just ask: is that based on your evidence around primary schools, where the sort of ethos that we've seen in the curriculum has been already articulated through the foundation phase?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The track record I'm talking about is across the board, so it's very difficult to think of anything that's actually got worse over the last three or four years, so it's difficult to say that standards of provision is slipping. It might not be improving as quickly as we would like, but the purpose of major curriculum and, more generally, educational reform is to make sure that we do get a more substantial sort of improvement. I think we should congratulate the profession for the work they've been doing. A large number of schools and teachers and leaders have been part of preparing the new curriculum and all the associated work, as well as doing the day job. I think their commitment and their engagement with curriculum reform, and engagement with wider education reform, is to be congratulated. So, I think going forward, we must make sure that that is continued; that this process that's called co-construction—engaging with the profession, making sure that they're behind all the changes—continues. I think that's what's going to make sure that we don't see any slippage.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, and on that point of comparing year on year, we will be able to make those comparisons legitimately then?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, certainly, in terms of our inspection outcomes and our inspection work, yes.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay. That's great, thank you. Can I just ask you then about the difference in preparedness between primary and secondary schools, which I've just mentioned previously, and also what your views are on the impact of funding for schools on that as well? Because we're in a situation where a number of primary schools have got surplus funds, sometimes that's because of end of year additional funds just being magicked up, but there is a serious worry that so many secondary schools are in deficit and that, overall, secondary schools are in deficit. Is there a correlation between those two positions, that secondary schools may be less ready for this than primary schools?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's probably true to say that secondary schools have a greater challenge than primary schools generally in terms of preparedness for the new curriculum. I think that's why we welcomed the phasing in of the new curriculum. With any sort of education reform, you've got that danger of people wanting to see change as soon as possible on the one hand, and on the other hand you need time to pilot things, to make sure that people have the right professional learning and make sure that there's opportunity for evaluation and thinking and so forth. So, we've got to get that balance right.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, that could be difficult to do if a school doesn't have money to create that space, couldn't it?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. You raised two issues, I think. One, about the difference between primary and secondary: I think what I'm saying there is I think the fact that the new curriculum is going to be brought in for all the years in primary, but it's going to be phased in year by year for secondary is a recognition of that difference. In terms of funding, probably everyone in this room, and certainly me included, would like to see more money for the education system—any educationalist would like to see that. But, you know, that is a decision for local and central Government to decide how much they can afford. I think there is an argument for saying that the funding has become more challenging for schools over time.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Can I ask, just to keep it on track, are you finding that that's having an impact on secondary schools particularly—their ability to make space to get their heads around the curriculum?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think you can make that straightforward correlation. But if you do look at surpluses and reserves, they have been more or less constant for primary schools over a long period of time, but they have declined for secondary schools. So, I think there probably is an argument for saying that we need to look at the funding of secondary schools in particular because, overall, they're in deficit now. So, I think there is an argument for looking at that. The other thing that's worth saying about funding is that even a small decrease in real terms can be disproportionately time consuming to manage. So, you know, if you have a large school and you have to maybe make one member of staff redundant, it can have a real big effect on the morale in the school. But also the time it takes for the headteacher and the senior staff to make those decisions can take their eye off the educational ball because they're looking at these financial and staffing issues.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Siân might develop that a little bit further on. The final question from me is: there's a general concern about the number of teachers that we have in the system at the moment, particularly at secondary level and in particular subjects as well. How do you think we can improve that? What impact is it likely to have on the ability of secondary schools to really get a grip on this?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Obviously, the most important resource for the education system is the teachers. So, it is a concern that recruitment is getting more and more difficult and that targets for initial teacher training are not being hit. And we're not seeing them hit, if I remember correctly, even in primary, let alone secondary. So, there is a challenge, and I think we've got to look at this in the round. We've got to make sure that we have both a long-term strategy and a shorter term strategy for this. So, long term, we've got to make sure that education is an attractive option for young people and more mature people to want to go into. So, that is partly to do with workload and staff well-being. I think there's a general acceptance now that that needs to be higher up on the agenda, that people need to take that seriously, and there's work going on regarding the workload issue.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "I suppose what I'm coming to, and I will finish with this, Chair, is, we're asking our existing workforce to undertake a fair bit of continuous professional development—let's call it that—in order to get ready for this curriculum when they've barely got time for lunch as it is. Do you think that's going to have an impact on the ability of secondary schools to get to grips with this, albeit that there'll be a phasing in?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think it will have an effect, but I think it'll have a positive effect. I think the new curriculum, one of the things about the new curriculum is that it re-professionalises the profession. It gives back agency and ownership to teachers. I think it's really important. And one of the reasons why teaching maybe hasn't been that attractive a profession is that teachers in the past have just been delivering a set curriculum, and now they've got a much more creative part in deciding for themselves how to teach something and what to teach. So, I think that is a very important part of attracting intelligent people into the profession. There are short-term things we need to do, of course, as well. I think we need to have a much more varied set of routes into teaching, so I welcome some of the part-time Open University courses, for example. So, there are lots of ways—we were talking about maybe converting people from primary into secondary, particularly in Welsh-medium, where there's a shortage. So, all those kinds of varied routes, I think, into teaching, are important as well.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Degree apprenticeships, potentially.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I think it's well worth exploring that. Yes.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Lovely. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Siân Gwenllian now has some questions on secondary schools causing concern. Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Just before going on to that, just to pick up on that last point that you made about the shortage of teachers and losing teachers during the first year of their training. Has Estyn done any themed work on that particular issue, or do you intend to do anything on that? Also, looking at the financial incentives and how they compare with the situation in England, for example; do we need, perhaps, to think about financial incentives, not just for specific subjects, but for going to schools where there are particular issues, perhaps?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, yes, there are currently discussions ongoing between us and the Government about working in those early years for teachers. It's possible that we will be undertaking work in the near future on that. I know that Professor Mick Waters is looking at this currently, and we've had the discussion with him. And I think we would welcome the opportunity to look at this particular period. Now, we are, of course, looking at initial teacher training, but we haven't looked at the first couple of years for many a year.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Right, thank you very much. And for your information, I've commissioned a piece of work on that particular issue, and that work will be published in due course. So, I hope to have a discussion with you about that.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. Yes.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "In terms of the secondary schools, that’s where the problem lies, isn’t it, rather than the primary sector. How much of a concern is it to you that children’s chances of going to a secondary school that is good or better appear to be 50:50, and that, indeed, over 10 per cent of secondary schools are judged to be failing and 12 per cent are under Estyn review? How much of a concern is that to you?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it is of concern to us, of course. I hope that we will have an opportunity to talk about the positive aspects of the education system in Wales, because there are a number of good things we can report also. The primary sector, the special sector, post-16—there are many sectors that are doing well, and I think a story that's particularly positive this year is that we have seen pupil referral units improving. We have seen examples of excellent practice in that sector for the first time in many a year, and we've also seen excellent practice in independent special schools, which is also a sector—. Because these are two sectors where there are very, very vulnerable children in attendance. So, I think that's very encouraging. But, you're right, of course, the biggest concern for the system, I would say, is secondary schools, and that is an issue of leadership, and also of the quality of the teaching and learning. Those are the recommendations that we make most often in our inspection reports. So, I believe that there is a need to find a long-term solution, as I mentioned previously, and also a short-term solution to this problem. In the long term, to improve the quality of teaching and learning—well, that’s the main aim of the new curriculum. So, I am confident that that strategy is the right strategy. It will take time, as we mentioned previously; it will take longer in secondary schools, and that's for a number of reasons, and I have discussed the challenges that are additional for secondary schools in previous annual reports. So, there are many reasons why secondary schools find it more difficult, possibly, than primary schools. The children themselves are older and they have greater challenges. Life is more complicated for them, possibly. It’s more difficult to engage with the parents of older children than younger children, and that’s an important factor. That’s one of the reasons why I believe it’s important that we do have community schools that ensure that the parents are part of the school’s life and take an interest in the education of their children. We also know that qualifications take a very prominent role in secondary schools’ mindsets, and, in some cases, perhaps excessively so. So, we need to ensure that those qualifications are reformed as a result of the reform of the curriculum, and, of course, Qualifications Wales is carrying out that work currently. And also, we need to change the measures that we use to measure the schools’ successes. Now, there is work ongoing on that as well. But there are all kinds of variations and differences between the primary and secondary sectors. In primary schools, for example, the greatest and most obvious difference, I would say, is that you’ve got one teacher who looks after a child for a whole year, and that teacher can identify the needs of the pupil very well over a period of time, getting to know the child and, possibly, the family very well. It’s much more complicated for secondary school to do that; there have to be systems put in place for that. So, there are many long-term things that we need to respond to. But in the short term, what is important is that those schools that cause concern receive much more support, and that is why I am glad and do welcome what's being piloted currently, which is a system of supporting these schools, the multi-agency approach, that is. So, that is something that we have been calling for for quite a long period of time and piloted ourselves a few years ago. So, I'm very glad that we are doing this in secondary schools throughout Wales. I believe there are about 12 schools that are in that pilot scheme.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "You said previously that it's a cause of concern for you that these schools that are failing or underachieving are not identified early enough. Are there signs that that's improving?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, one of the things that's very positive about this pilot scheme is that it's not just the schools that are officially causing concern that are a part of the pilot scheme, that is, the schools that we have identified, through inspections, as needing to be put in a statutory category. So, there are schools involved in the pilot scheme that the authorities and the consortia have identified themselves as schools that are at risk of causing concern. I believe that it's fair to say that we have not reached a point yet where we have a system of agreed criteria in relation to identifying these schools yet. I think that there has been initial work that has been commissioned or that is about to arrive in relation to that, and the types of measures you would expect us to take account of would be dissatisfaction from parents, staff leaving, a change in leadership. We use surveys with the children, for instance, and that gives you quite a good idea of whether a school is possibly facing difficulties. So, there's not one single criteria alone that will tell you, 'This is a school that is at risk of causing concern', but taken together, having a set of criteria that everyone has agreed would be a good way of monitoring schools, I believe.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, we'll be coming on to that middle tier later on, and perhaps that's where the problem lies, namely that if there isn't an agreed system from consortia and yourselves, perhaps that's where the focus needs to be.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I would say that it's not the identification of the schools that is the greatest problem. The greatest problem is ensuring that there is support for them and that the support is multi-agency support, where all the agencies that support these schools are working together.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Well, how long does it take, therefore, for a school to move from an improvement category, in terms of special measures, to be escalated then? Because one sees sometimes that there's an excellent school, and within five years' time, it's in the red. So, there's a great deal of variance in that.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, that would be something quite unusual—to move from excellent to red.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Yes, well, gradually, perhaps.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Perhaps Claire can respond to this.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "On average, secondary schools that are in need of special measures take just over two years, on average. Some are shorter; some are quite a considerable amount longer. It's a little less for schools that go into significant improvement. With primary schools, of course, it's much shorter because the issues are far less complex; it's easier to bring about improvements in teaching. When you've got large numbers of staff, you've got large secondary schools, it takes time to actually bring about those improvements, but it is a long time, just over two years, when you think that some pupils, maybe in key stage 4 for the two years—. Certainly, we want to see schools coming out of category much quicker, and this is where the multi-agency approach certainly is a positive step. All partners involved in supporting the school are involved in these improvement boards. They focus on bringing about improvement in the areas of the school that are weakest, and it is the responsibility of everybody involved—that is: ourselves, the regions, local authorities, the schools themselves and their governing bodies—to look at how they can best support the school to bring about that improvement. So, it's getting an agreement on what the issues are, and then planning the support so that we avoid duplication, but that we support the school in the areas they need more support. And we hope that this then will accelerate the improvement of the schools that find themselves in category. But, as Meilyr already said, there are some schools involved in that particular pilot that are at danger of causing serious concern. So, the pilot is trying out those two different approaches as well.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. And just finally from me, for the time being at least, the financial situation; we've spoken about that already this morning. If you could—. If funding was injected into the system tomorrow, say, what would you spend it on? What aspects would benefit from that additional funding?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Were you asking about something specific there?",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "In the schools themselves, if you were a school leader, what would you—",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, if I were a school leader.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Yes. How would you use any additional funding that would flow into the school?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "It's difficult to make that decision, because every school is different. It is important, of course, that leaders do have the power and the ability to make those decisions themselves. But, certainly, in the short term, the type of thing I would have thought would be to prepare for the new curriculum. That means freeing up teachers to think about what the new curriculum means to them. The schools that have been a part of developing the curriculum have been in a fortunate position in that they've had plenty of time to think about this. So, it's now time—and this was the chief message of my annual report this year—for every school in Wales to start to think. Because I think that the new curriculum is truly an opportunity to take a forward step in terms of how we teach and learn within schools. But that means that time is needed for schools to think this through and, in that thinking, to contact the community, to talk to their children as well, to see what the community in its broader sense would like to see being in the new curriculum, because it's up to every school. Although the new curriculum sets a framework, it is up to each and every school to decide what they're going to teach, and what they're teaching in order to prepare their young people for this new world that we have in the twenty-first century. Therefore, to give you a somewhat superficial answer, I would be setting time aside for the training of teachers.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Can I just add one thing there? I think what we've seen over the years recently is that local authorities, to some extent, have safeguarded the funding that goes to the schools, but the effect of that is that we've seen less funding going into some of the local authority services; for example, those services that support well-being, that promote attendance, and that perhaps support behaviour and assistance for schools. So, I think that all of those factors contribute to how schools can support and assist their pupils, and to improve themselves. So, I think that side of things is important as well—in the school or in the local authority, if funding is available, it should be allocated to all of those things so that those services can also support the children to succeed.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Just before we move on to the middle tier, if I can just ask about the quality of teaching? There's been a consistent message from Estyn that that is the weakest part of the system in Wales. The Government recognises that and has invested a very significant amount of money in that area, yet it's still an issue again in your annual report. You haven't said whether it's getting better or going in the right direction. What is your assessment of whether we are seeing the improvements we need to see in the quality of teaching?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, in nearly all the elements of our framework, the picture is fairly similar. So, in terms of quality of teaching, we have seen gradual but quite small-scale improvements in primary. So, you can feel that that is going in the right direction. In secondary, it's more or less level; we haven't seen it getting particularly better or particularly worse. One of the things that's really important to realise is that the curriculum is about the quality of teaching. It is about the teaching and learning; those are two sides of the same coin, if you like. What's important is the learning experience that our pupils get in school. From the perspective of the pupil, it's the learning; from the perspective of the teacher, it's the teaching. They are two sides to the same coin. I think there's no doubt and I think there's general agreement that, in order to have a step change in the quality of teaching and learning—. I think it was Einstein who said that if you keep on doing the same thing, you'll get the same result. So, you're going to have to change something, and what's changing is the curriculum. I think there's general consensus that this is the right approach to improve the quality of teaching. And that's exactly what all schools need to do now: to think how does this new curriculum affect them in their particular school, in their particular circumstances, in the context of their particular children. How can they use this opportunity now to improve the teaching and learning in their school?",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "It does cause one concern, because if the teaching and learning standards just stay the same in the secondary sector, and we know that 12 per cent of secondary schools are under Estyn review and 11 per cent of them are in special measures, we're talking about half of the schools almost, and no improvement in the teaching quality in general. So, there is a major cohort of children captured in that situation, and then there's a new curriculum that comes in. I see the opportunities, but these schools that are doing well are going to go, 'Wow, up there', but schools are there in the bottom layer and one is genuinely concerned about those children in those schools. Isn't that where the focus should be and any additional funding that's allocated? You talked about releasing teachers for training, but perhaps it's in those particular schools that we need to focus.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I do agree that the best schools will welcome the opportunities and that their standards will improve even more. But then, with regard to the other schools, in a way, there are two very broad categories, which are those that need only a little support just to help them to improve—. And I believe that the new curriculum and the general support that's going to be surrounding that will be the solution for those schools. It's going to be an opportunity for the quality of the teaching and the learning to improve. But you're right to say that there is another smaller cohort that has a much greater need for support, and they're going to find coping with the new curriculum difficult, because they'll also have many other problems. So, I do agree—. And you're not talking about a huge number of schools—some 200 secondary schools is what we have in Wales, so that percentage is relatively small, the number is relatively small—but they need much greater support. That is why this pilot scheme of the multi-agency approach of supporting those schools is important. I do believe that you're right to say that there are funding implications to supporting those schools. I don't think it's enormous, but certainly there's a certain amount of funding that is needed to offer those schools that support.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. The Minister recently told the committee that a number of recent Estyn inspections of local authorities' education services have been disappointing. Do you agree? That, of course, is based on the inspections carried out under the current cycle.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, indeed. I think we've done nine inspections of local authorities' education services so far this cycle. We've got another two this academic year. We'll have done half of them by the end of the academic year. We'll then evaluate how things have gone. But of those nine we've put three into category—we've identified them as causing concern—and they're Pembrokeshire, Powys and Wrexham. So, we do have concerns about those authorities. So, we'll be supporting those authorities, moving forward. But I think a common factor in those inspections was secondary schools. So, we've talking quite a bit about secondary schools this morning, and I think that, again, is a factor in those local authorities.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. You say that the proportion of secondary schools causing concern is a challenge for several local authorities and for the system as a whole. Which local authorities are these—you've probably named them all—and have these been inspected yet under the current cycle?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "I think you're taking about three secondary schools in a category in Pembrokeshire, Wrexham and Torfaen. So, we've inspected Pembrokeshire and Wrexham already, but we haven't inspected Torfaen yet. And two schools in a category in Powys, Newport and Gwynedd. And we've inspected Powys and Newport, but we haven't inspected Gwynedd yet. So, in answer to your question: we've inspected most of those, but not all of them.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay. What is your latest assessment of how well the regional consortia are supporting and driving school improvement? Does this vary across the different regions?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "It certainly does vary, but I'll ask Jassa to go into more detail.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "We haven't directly inspected the regional consortia since—I think 2017 was the last time we did some direct monitoring with them. But I think, over the last three years, we do feel that they've improved their knowledge. They're still relatively new in the big scheme of things. So, they did take a little while to embed, and I think that came across when we did the work that we did with them back in 2017. But, more recently, they've improved their knowledge of individual schools' strengths and areas for improvement, and they are using this knowledge better to support and challenge schools, and particularly schools causing concern. But obviously, as we've been talking about this morning, there's still work to do. I think they've prioritised well the work that schools are doing around literacy and numeracy, but their support for schools to develop digital competence has been a bit weaker. Even though we've had the framework as an early part of the curriculum developments there, we haven't seen quite the focus that we've seen on other areas. I think for schools causing concern, what we found—and we do look at their work through our local authority inspection, so we are getting some first-hand evidence of their impact through that—they're not always focused, in those schools causing concern, on improving teaching and learning, so actually getting in and looking and working with teachers and with staff to actually make improvements there. I think, generally, their support for secondary schools has had less impact across the consortia than it has for primary schools, and I think sometimes that's because they're struggling to recruit appropriate specialists, to support with secondary, or perhaps they don't have the depth of strong practice that we talked about earlier within their region. So, they're having to work a bit harder to find effective practice, to share practice and to get the secondary expertise and knowledge to support those schools. We will be, over the next year, looking specifically at the work of consortia to support curriculum reform work. Well, we think we will be—we haven’t had our remit letter yet. But that's one of the areas we've discussed, about doing some specific work on over the next year to look in a bit more depth.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "So, what is the cycle of inspections for regional consortia, and how robust are those inspections? What areas do you cover?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, regional consortia aren't actually statutory entities at the moment, and we don't have specific inspection powers relating to regional consortia. What we have are powers to inspect school improvement. So, on each of our local authority inspections, there will be, usually, an area that we're looking at that relates to school improvement, and that would involve us looking at the work of the consortia that the local authority has commissioned. What we've agreed with Welsh Government is that, over the next few years, we will take a thematic approach. So, the first area that we've said is that we'll look specifically at how each of them is supporting curriculum reform, and report on that. So, that will report specifically on the different ones, but it wouldn't be the same as doing an inspection of their work at this time.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "Should they be on a statutory footing?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think that's something to be discussed over the next few years. There's, obviously, local government legislation that has been debated recently, which has the potential to create corporate joint committees, and school improvement was one of the areas that is being considered there. So, there may be an opportunity, if that's created, to think how we then adapt inspection to look specifically at that. So, I think there is an opportunity. I think we do get a handle on their work through the local authority and, ultimately, it's looking at what that consortia brings to that local authority and to the schools and the pupils in that area that's the important bit, I think, ultimately, to see the impact there. So, we are looking at them in that way, and then taking that thematic approach, but we'll keep reviewing it over the next couple of years.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. And what are Estyn's views on the latest position regarding regional working in south-west and mid Wales? Would it be preferable for school improvement advisers to be based in the consortium, Education through Regional Work, rather than each local authority employing their own, as is the case at present?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "If I can just go back to the last question as well, what we did in order to inspect regions was we paused our local authority inspection cycle back in 2014, I think, for about three years. So, then, we spent time looking at regions, basically, because we didn't have the resource to do both at the same time. So, we're in negotiation with Welsh Government currently, so that, going forward, we can look at local authorities and regions at the same time. If regions become statutory entities, that would be in legislation, and then you could have legislation that gives us directly the powers to inspect them, which we don't currently have. So, we have to, effectively, wait for Welsh Government to ask us to do that work. But, as Jassa said, currently, what we intend to do in the short is to do some thematic work on that. In terms of ERW, they were the region that, at the end of the last cycle of regional inspections, we were still monitoring. We are concerned about their progress, particularly in the light of recent developments. So, for example, the chair of the joint committee has resigned, the managing director remains a temporary appointment and there are no clear plans for a permanent leadership. Some of the leadership team have left—the capacity has gone down—and various staff that were appointed last summer have already left. The budget has not been agreed and certain key meetings—executive board and joint committee meetings—have been cancelled. So, we are particularly worried about ERW, and, because of that, we will be going in to visit them in April—next month—and we'll be visiting all of the authorities to make sure that they do have a plan for an appropriate school improvement service going forward. But, Jassa, probably, can say a little bit more about our plans there.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I think you asked a specific question about, you know, which is better. I think our view has been that, generally, the local authorities are too small to deliver that whole range of school improvement services, particularly given the national reform agenda at the moment. We felt last summer, when we went to ERW, that they'd managed to reach the best possible model, given the constraint they've placed, collectively, on themselves—that they want to deliver aspects of school improvement locally, through the local authorities, and have some central capacity. So, we felt that, given that they wanted to do some locally and some centrally, enough thought had been put into that structure last summer and that it could be workable. There were key aspects such as support for secondary schools causing concern and there was some capacity centrally that could support areas such as Powys. Unfortunately, as Meilyr has described, some of those aspects have since been disbanded or those staff who were on secondment have gone back, so I think it is a key risk, particularly for some of those authorities you've talked about that are causing concern, such as Powys or Pembrokeshire—that they haven't necessarily got that local capacity to support their schools causing concern. So, you've got some concerns within school capacity and you've got concerns about local authority capacity, and what you don't have there now is that collective capacity centrally that might support them. So, that's why we're going to go and do a slightly more detailed link visit to try to understand how they are mitigating the risks that we see are arising as a result of some of those things that have happened recently. Our understanding is that there's a joint committee meeting of ERW on 19 March, so, hopefully, after that point, we'll have a little bit more information about how they're planning to manage that collective set of services going forward—it's a little bit of an unknown at the moment.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "You were asking, 'Would it be better for every authority to have their own team?' But, before regions were invented, if you like, we were saying consistently that they tended to be too small. What happened in practice was that authorities did come together voluntarily to have joint advisory services. So, you had Cynnal in the north west, you had the Education and School Improvement Service, you had Gwent—so, they naturally did come together in groups, maybe a little bit smaller than the current regions, but they, of their own accord, produced something not very dissimilar to a region.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Siân, did you have a supplementary?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, just on ERW. Does the fact that there is a dispute on the highest level feed down to the school and to the children? Are the children in south-west and mid Wales affected by this? Are standards decreasing in that part of Wales?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's difficult to say directly, but we have inspected nine authorities and two of those are in that area, so, the lack of support at that level, as Jassa was saying, may be the reason why those authorities are suffering difficulties.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "And it is clear that many people across that area are expending energy and time discussing these issues. Any reorganisation does take energy out of the system, so it is clear that that time isn't then being spent, perhaps, on investment in improving schools and supporting staff in schools. So, as Meilyr says, it's not clear, but a lot of energy is being expended in that particular discussion that is ongoing.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "What disadvantages could there be from Neath Port Talbot's intention to withdraw from regional working via ERW? And I've got to be honest, up in the north, I know that there are concerns about regional consortia, and when local authorities are under pressure financially, it questions, sometimes, the value of regional consortia. So, what disadvantages could there be from Neath Port Talbot's intention to withdraw from regional working via ERW?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we've talked in general terms and we feel that local authorities probably are too small on their own. In general terms, you can't say that any particular authority couldn't, maybe, put things together in such a way that it's effective. Also, it has a knock-on effect on the rest of the consortium, if one withdraws. I don't know whether, Jassa, you've got anything to add to the general points we've made.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "I mean, I think, what you've alluded to there, it has the potential to be a destabilising factor across the whole of the national model that we've got for supporting school improvement at a time where Welsh Government are kind of relying heavily on that consortium model to help support curriculum reform and to drive professional learning and be the conduit for lots of the aspects of reform that we've talked about. So, I think that potential risk of any destabilising across the system is a disadvantage generally. I think—. Clearly, we've talked about that capacity at a local level. There is that aspect of what that means in terms of the joint capacity across the other authorities there. And I think it's just what I've already talked about in terms of being a distraction at a crucial time for support where schools need to feel that they're confident in where they need to go for support. I should say that we're planning, as part of that visit that we do in April, to survey schools in that region about the support that they're getting, be that from their authority or from the central teams in ERW. That's something we did at the time when we did the inspections previously, and we thought it would be helpful to get some first-hand views of any disadvantages or impact that they might be feeling, really.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. And then, finally, for me:what involvement has Estyn had with the strategic education delivery group chaired by Professor Dylan Jones and what are your expectations for how it will improve the work of the middle tier?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We've been members of that group right from the beginning. I personally am on it and colleagues are on it as well, and I'm a member of the sub-group that does some of the background work for that group as well, and Estyn has given several presentations to that group. I think the group is important. I remember commenting the first time it met that it was welcoming. The rather obvious thing is that you get all the strategic educational organisations together in one room, but it had never been done before, as far as I know. So, it was a really important step forward for that to happen. I'm a very firm believer in making those relationships, building those relationships, so that people understand what each of us contributes to the whole of the education system. We need to have that forum to be able to make sure that we're clear about what each of our roles is.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thanks.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We've got some questions now from Dawn Bowden.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Morning, all. In your report you talked about in early settings where skills development is less effective, that children begin to feel at a very early age that they can't do certain things. I don't know whether that is anecdotal evidence or is that specific outcome-based evidence—whatever, it's quite worrying. But what do you think the long-term effect on a child's development has in that respect?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "It's probably worth saying that skill development is a strength in about three quarters of our schools—primary schools and early years settings. But in a minority of schools and settings, as you've picked up, children are often introduced to things too early. So, they're introduced to phonics, they're introduced to learning to read, when they're not at that developmental stage. And really, long term, it means the children lose confidence, because if they're introduced to these things too early they don't succeed, they tend to need additional support, and it can give them a negative impression, it can give them negative thoughts about their ability. So, we need to address that, and really it's about—",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, what sort of age range are we talking about here?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "These would be children from three to five.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "So, this is very, very early on.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "And is there something, then, in that—and I don't think there's much we can do about that, but it may be in terms of the way that the schools or the early learning settings address this—you will have children at a very young age that have almost a year's difference in their age group, so they're born just before 1 September or just after 1 September? So, that's a huge gap, isn't it, at that point in their development?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Is that not being addressed in a way that those children are being taught and approached at that age?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Right, okay. That's fine. In terms of reading and literacy skills, we still remain quite low in the Programme for International Student Assessment ratings for reading, and I know there is a particular concern about the impact on boys in that regard. What do you think are the most pressing priorities that face them around reading and literacy?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I think literacy has been, and still is, and still needs to be a top priority. I mean, literacy clearly is something that underpins the rest of education, so it really does need to be a top priority. I think it has been a high priority, but we need to continue prioritising it. We've seen some improvements over the years. For example, we've given a lot of attention to writing over the years, and making sure that children get the opportunity to write in an extended way, not just short sentences, but having the opportunity to have extended writing, and there's some evidence that that now is beginning to have an effect. But almost ironically, the same sort of issue is true of reading. So, it's not just reading small little snippets—we need to encourage children to have a love for reading and read whole books. So, I gave a little bit of attention to that in the annual report—that that needs attention. I think the other thing I would emphasise is that this is not just for the foundation phase, it's not just for very young children—it's really important at key stage 2 and in secondary school. One of the things we have been worried about, and I think there was some reflection of this in PISA, is that there are strengths in reading in Wales. So, PISA, for example, said that children in Wales are very good at comparing lots of little snippets, but what they're saying, and they're saying this themselves, is that the love of books is decreasing, and the number of children who read regularly whole books. So, I think there is something there for teachers to set and model a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it? I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read—the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life—all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year—it is on language acquisition.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16—so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels—and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for that?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone who's studying in a further education college will have to do resits. There's an aim to try and get everyone to a basic level. In apprenticeships they'll use essential skills and so on to try and get that basic level of literacy as well, so there is an emphasis. I think one of the worrying indications, maybe, that post-16 sectors find is that sometimes even when learners are coming out with a basic qualification in a GCSE, potentially in English or a literature subject, they don't necessarily have a really good foundation of some of the basic skills as well. So, there is a lot of work to do in this area.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "Okay, all right. Could I just move you on—? Sorry—",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "The only thing I would add to that is, I guess, it's quite small, the number of people who don't have basic reading. I think one of the things we need to emphasise is that learning reading is something you do throughout your life, and what we need to do is to develop, in particular, pupils' higher level reading skills. The fact that they can just read isn't the end of the story; they need to be developing those higher level reading skills and continuing to widen the range of things they read, and be able to develop their vocabulary at a higher level.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "And their comprehension, I guess.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry?",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "And their comprehension as well.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely, yes—those higher level skills of comprehension and inference and those sorts of things.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Sure, okay. Can I just move you on, then, to numeracy and whether you can tell us if you're satisfied with the progress in numeracy, because I think we were doing better on the PISA results in maths in Wales than we did previously? So, what are your thoughts on that?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I think there is a fairly clear good news story here. PISA shows improvements and a lot of that can be attributed, I think, to the new GCSE mathematics numeracy. I think there's much less predictability in that work; you can't approach it in a formulaic way, either the pupils or the teachers in terms of teaching it. There's much more problem solving. It's about applying what you've learnt in the core mathematics lessons to new situations in subjects across the curriculum. I think that that GCSE numeracy has built on the work that's been done lower down on the national numeracy framework, which has the same philosophy of applying that mathematics knowledge in a problem-solving situation. That has been a really good news story, really.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "That's something to be positive about, anyway. That's good. My final question, Chair, is: in your view, to what extent is Wales on track to meet the target of 500 points in each of the domains in the 2020-1 cycle for PISA?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that that target is somewhat arbitrary, but assuming that we continue on this journey that we are on—the current change programme of the new curriculum and so forth—I think we would expect to see those improvements we've seen in science and in mathematics to continue. We've talked about reading and I think we will be giving more attention to reading. I think the education system more generally, hopefully, will give more attention to reading. So, I would hope to see improvements there as well. The only other thing I would add is that there is some research that indicates or suggests that the effect of schools is greater on mathematics and science than on reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom—it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "That's good.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the £475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their own. So, there are a lot of caveats to be made around the fact that that poverty gap hasn't closed, but that's not to say that schools can't do something about it, and I've suggested in the annual report a sort of a two-pronged approach. One is the new curriculum. I think there is evidence in the international research that teaching and learning, better teaching and learning, helps disadvantaged poor pupils disproportionately. So, they gain more from it that their peers. So, I think improving teaching and learning, and we discussed that earlier this morning about how the new curriculum is really all about improving the quality of teaching and learning in the classroom. So, that's one approach, and then the other approach, which I've also mentioned earlier, is having a community-focused approach to schools. The schools that do more successfully tackle the poverty gap are the schools that take that kind of approach. It means helping the pupils. It means helping their families. It's about making pupil well-being really high on the agenda. It's very difficult for children to do well in school if they've got all kinds of things happening in their background. So, it's important that schools can maybe signpost those families to other services that can support them and help them. So, it's quite a complex—. It's challenging for schools to go down this route, and I think the more help we can give schools to take that approach, the better. But the schools that do do it do benefit a lot from it. They have better engagement from parents, from the families, and that then reflects back on the work of the children.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "And we've just published a collection of good practice about how schools support vulnerable learners, and we'll be teasing out the aspects around community-focused schools a lot more in a report that we'll publish in the next couple of months. So, we've kind of drilled down and looked at what some schools are doing in that area in a bit more detail.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Suzy, on this.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, just quickly. Obviously, I think we've all been to schools where the PDG is actually used to engage parents more for exactly the reasons you say. But I just wanted to interrogate the deprivation gap a little bit, because, of course, even though, as you say, there's perhaps more equity in Wales, one of the reasons for that is because our children from better-off backgrounds do less well, and considerably less well than their peers in the other parts of the United Kingdom. So, whereas their attainment gaps are pretty dreadful, that's one of the reasons—that our better-off children aren't doing as well as perhaps they might do. Is that a concern as well? We don't want this rush to the middle, do we?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's essential that all groups of pupils do as well as they possibly can, absolutely. So, it's not quite the same issue, but we've talked about the importance of making sure that more able and talented children do well.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "They're not the same.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "They're not the same, clearly, because you have more able and talented children from poor backgrounds. Differentiation is a challenge for schools, but it's absolutely essential that all groups of children do as well as they possibly can. So, in things like PISA, in terms of reading, for example, we can't just say it's that group that needs to improve—all the groups need to improve. And I think that's why something like the new curriculum gives schools more scope to tailor their teaching and learning to the particular groups that they have, whether they’re more able, whether they're advantaged or whether they're disadvantaged.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thanks. Thank you, Lynne.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Pupils' confidence in their school's ability to help them with their emotional and mental well-being is much less at secondary school and that's been a consistent theme as well from your reports. Why do you think that is?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, you're right. As we mentioned earlier, we do pupil surveys before all our inspections, and across a number of those indicators, like, 'How well does the school listen? Do adults in school care about me? How well does the school deal with bullying?'—quite a lot those ones around well-being do tail off. Nine out of 10 pupils at key stage 2 have that confidence, down to half at key stage 4, as you say. And I think there are a number of factors that we think contribute to that: I think one of the factors is that pupils face, sometimes, more challenges as they get older in those teenage years, but they also become more reflective and perhaps more discerning. And I think what we find in secondary schools is perhaps secondary school pupils notice sometimes the differences between their everyday life that they experience in school and perhaps the messages that they're getting about well-being in terms of their lessons, in terms of assemblies and in terms of school policies and so on. So, they are probably more discerning in noticing those differences and maybe there are some of those differences also there in primary school, but the pupils don't notice. I think we've already touched upon things like the differences in the way that, at primary school, you would tend to have a go-to adult, which is your teacher. The best secondary schools find ways to make sure that pupils do feel that level of support and feel there are trusted people, but it's more of a challenge to make sure that that happens, because of the way they're operating. We still have some concerns about personal and social education and the health and well-being support, which we've made a recommendation about in the past in some of our thematic reports, but also recently in some of our secondary school inspection reports. And I think I already touched upon the fact that sometimes, when the budget is tight, it can be some of those—they're not peripheral in their importance, but they're not the teacher in the classroom: well-being support assistants and so on and family liaison workers—staff in the school who perhaps really support that pastoral care that the school as a whole can provide—it may be that those are the roles that are less prevalent at times of less funding. So, I think there are some great members of staff doing a really good job, but perhaps they're not those members of staff who can support teachers and support pupils in creating that kind of caring environment. Maybe there a fewer of them around. So, I think there's not an obvious answer and part of it is that they do become more discerning and perhaps more vocal in those responses generally, as they get older. So, you might have a truer reflection of opinions than perhaps—. And that might explain some of the difference with primary, where, generally, they're quite positive about everything across most of the schools that we ask.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "So, it's not that secondary schools—because you've said that in a previous inspection report—are just not as good at prioritising mental health and well-being.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think there's an element that it's more of a challenge for a secondary school to provide an effective set of support from that whole-staff awareness of some of the challenges. And one of the pieces of work we've done recently is around adverse childhood experiences, and we have found that primary schools have taken that and embraced it. Once you've trained your staff, then they've got that knowledge. They're the ones who are working day to day with the schools. Secondary schools haven't always taken a whole-school approach to that. They might have trained a set of staff. So, maybe not every member of staff has the same level of understanding, but also those staff aren't spending the same amount of time with pupils. So, in terms of getting to know pupils, picking up on signs that they may be struggling, or that there might be concerns—it's much more of a challenge. You've got to work a lot harder as a secondary school to make sure that staff have that knowledge and that you've got the tracking systems that can put those different bits of information together to actually mean that you can target support where it's needed.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Suzy.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm just thinking again about specific groups of pupils. Obviously, we've had one case in north Wales, in an independent school, where there were serious concerns. What's that done to your desire to monitor and check what's going on in these independent schools? Are they regulated sufficiently?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I'll pick up on that as well. Just to explain how we work with independent schools, initially, to give the context. So, there are different kinds of independent schools. So, some have boarding provision, and where they have boarding provision, Care Inspectorate Wales would look at the boarding side of it, we'd look at the educational side of it. There are others where they may have a linked children's home, which can be another room in the same house, or it can be a number of miles away, and similarly there CIW would look at the residential aspects of the care and we'd look at the school. So, I think, there's a focus in the independent school standards regulations, which is a minimum that all schools have to meet to maintain a registration. There is a focus in that on how that school looks after and cares for its pupils, and there are focuses on that element of boarding provision where relevant, and the national minimum standards that the care inspectorate look at that have aspects around supporting well-being as well. What we do find in our inspections is that, overall, we generally find that pupils' well-being develops, they make good progress, and that care, support and guidance that schools give is good. What we mean by that, really, practically, is that they are developing their resilience and their self-esteem. In special schools, this might mean particularly that those pupils learn to manage their anxieties better so that they improve their behaviour, which may be one of the reasons why they're in that specialist setting. In mainstream independent schools, what we find is that people develop their tenacity, their curiosity for learning—their resilience in that way. But there are shortcomings sometimes. For example, there was one school where we found that they weren't making appropriate referrals to child and adolescent mental health services. So, these schools do operate independently by their nature, and their awareness, perhaps, of some of the guidance and support that is out there—sometimes, maybe, there can be more to be done, and I think we've talked to Welsh Government about that.",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "What's Estyn's role in that—to bring that level of awareness to those schools?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we do through our inspection guidance, and the independent school standards do refer to Welsh Government guidance—it's something like 'Keeping learners safe', which is a really key document, which supports safeguarding and caring across schools. That's regularly discussed and talked about and referred to with those schools. So, I think the other area is that sometimes we don't have the intelligence about what—. So, for example, if there's been a safeguarding referral from a school, we don't necessarily always get that information, which means that when we do go to inspect, we may not have the full picture to help us tailor our inspection activity. So, that's something we've raised—",
"speaker": "Jassa Scott"
},
{
"content": "[Inaudible.]—be brief and brief in answers.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Al right, okay. Do you mind if I move on to the next question?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We're going to have to skip those, I'm afraid, and talk to the last set of questions, just because of the time pressures. Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'd like to ask in Welsh, please. What role, if any, did Estyn have in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's latest review of progress in school improvement when they visited Wales in late 2019?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we were interviewed. Therefore, the three of us had an interview with the OECD officials and we offered evidence to them. And I think that, when the report is published, you will see that the OECD does draw on our broader evidence and will be quoting our reports—the annual report and some of our thematic reports. That is the part that we played in that work.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Thanks. How significant a role do you believe the national evaluation and improvement resource will play in raising school standards?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that it's very important. It's Claire who has been specifically tasked with that, so I'll ask Claire to speak about it.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "I think working together with the practitioners, the regions and representatives from local authorities is a great opportunity to develop a national approach, because we know across Wales there's some excellent practice, but we know there are schools that struggle to bring about improvement. So, this national resource has the potential to provide schools with detailed guidance on how they can approach not only self-evaluation, but, more importantly, how they can bring about that improvement. So, it will be a resource that develops over time. It's starting—we're piloting currently with around 40 schools. Half of those have been involved in developing the tools and approaches right from the start, and 22 new schools have come on board this year. But we anticipate that there will be lots of tools and approaches within that resource that schools can use to improve the quality of self-evaluation throughout the school, primaries, secondaries, PRUs and special schools. But it will focus on establishing a culture within the school that focuses on improvement, that establishes a reflective culture where all staff are involved in development. So, we're hoping that this tool—it's still currently in development, but we hope that that will support schools really well.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "So, it's an evolving piece of work.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, it is.",
"speaker": "Claire Morgan"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And, with regard to comparison of performance, does the lack of comparative attainment data raise difficulties when you're inspecting and drawing conclusions and standards in schools?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Not really, no. I think there was a bit of a myth that a lot of this performance data was just for Estyn, but actually it never has been. When we inspect, we look at a whole range of aspects of the work. We look at standards, we look at teaching and learning in the classroom, we look at well-being, we look at care support and guidance, we look at leadership, we look at all of these things, and we look at it based on first-hand evidence—what we actually see in the classroom. So, we're quite happy to continue to inspect schools, and we in fact support having less emphasis on data because, although data is useful, and we hope that schools will continue to analyse their data and use that data to help them self-improve and self-evaluate, we don't actually need it and it has actually created a bit of a high-stakes culture. So, I think stepping back from that culture is a good idea.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you very much. We've come to the end of our time, so can I thank you all for your attendance? As usual, you'll receive a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. But thank you very much again for coming in this morning.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Diolch yn fawr—thank you.",
"speaker": "Meilyr Rowlands"
},
{
"content": "Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a ministerial update on the emotional and mental health of children and young people in Wales—next steps for 'Mind over matter'. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Housing and Local Government regarding teachers' pay and pensions, and paper to note 3 is a letter to the Minister for Education from us regarding the school funding review. Are Members happy to note those? Thank you. Can I then propose under Standing Order 17.42 that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting? Are Members content? Great. Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_5 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"0",
"26"
]
],
"topic": "Cooperation between the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development and the Welsh Government in school improvement and raising standard"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"27",
"56"
]
],
"topic": "Schools causing concern with questions from Irranca-Davies"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"57",
"81"
]
],
"topic": "Attitudes and opinions on the work of consortia"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"82",
"102"
]
],
"topic": "Actions towards the document in 2015-\"National model for regional working\""
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"103",
"114"
]
],
"topic": "The long-term trends with regard to raising standards and improving educational attainment"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"115",
"142"
]
],
"topic": "Further actions regard with the current interim measures"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Basically, the Children, Young People and Education Committee's meeting was about the inquiry on school improvement and raising standards. In this meeting, the Minister for Education, Kirsty and Director of Education, Steve answered many specific questions and expressed their opinions about the current situations. Altogether, they had talked about the school categorization system which has been used right now, the curriculum reform, changes and challenges. Also, they spent lots of time discussing regional consortia services that the way it worked and how they could be improved. Although now they failed to persuade the government to adopt the new model, they were optimistic about the future application.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, there were a variety of ways in which schools that needed support or needed to be challenged on their practice would be identified. Basically, they relied on the school categorization system. What's more, in Kirsty's opinion, the school improvement service was a risk-based approach. Luckily, the categorization system on which they depended would continue to evolve to align itself to the curriculum reform and make changes in self-evaluation. It would continue to evolve because it had to be consistent with their overall approach to school improvement and raising standards. What they needed now was a more strategic, longer term approach to reach changes in a school rather than some of the easy-to-fix items that made a school as if it was doing better.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about schools causing concern with questions from Irranca-Davies.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"27",
"56"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Now, Estyn was used as part of the accountability system. Since the systems were evolving all the time, the Estyn itself inspection regime was changing as well. Now, they were moving to a system where Estyn would be more regularly in schools. Although there were two systems, they were different and they looked at different things. The categorization system they used now was how they looked for those ways of identifying support for schools.",
"query": "What was the method of holding schools and their governing bodies to account for their practice and for the work that they did?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"27",
"28"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty and Huw, the real question was how was it that they didn't identify those schools. Since these schools were not being identified early enough, there was a need to do something urgently about these concerns, particularly in secondary schools. Even though they had identified them as needing that extra help, they were not moving at pace away from that system. In Steve's opinion, the importance lied on \"What about the schools that are sliding in that direction?\" And it brought together what they knew from Estyn, but also, local authorities had knowledge of their schools, and so did consortia. They had got to be better at bringing those together.",
"query": "How could the schools that are causing significant concern be identified?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"31",
"35"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, school was going to need a little bit of extra support, so it was not always just a crisis that needed extra support. There were just general things that happen in the life of a school that could lead to it. However, it was also right that they had a particular challenge in the secondary sector. That's why they had introduced the new pilot to address those schools. If they carried on doing the same thing, they would keep getting the same results, which was not satisfying enough.",
"query": "What was a level that Kirsty would be content with of having schools in red category in Wales?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"53",
"56"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Hefin, some regional consortia services performed really highly, but there were others that needed to improve. Those consortia shall be seen as working together on a national approach, but being delivered on a regional basis. Also, it had evolved over time, and they were constantly looking for optimum delivery. By taking Education through Regional Working as an example, they had pointed out that ERW as well as the Education Achievement Service EAS was constituted in a different way to the Central South Consortium. They delivered on a regional basis. They would continue to discuss with ERW what was the optimal way and continued to cooperate with the constituent local authorities about how that shall be organized.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the attitudes and opinions on the work of consortia.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"57",
"81"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "In Hefin's opinion, they took ERW as an example because it did things differently with regard to the four consortia. They were interested in the effectiveness of that organization to deliver for children and for teachers since ERW had got particular challenges. What they were seeing the national consortia do is developing a national approach to school improvement services. What's more, according to Hefin, the regional consortia were not a beast of the Government; they were a beast of the local authorities that had worked together to create a school improvement service that met their needs.",
"query": "Why did they take Education through Regional Working as an example?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"67",
"70"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty believed that it was really important for them to understand how Neath Port Talbot intended to support their schools and their teachers if they were to withdraw from ERW, especially at what was a critical time. They wanted to know from Neath Port Talbot how they were going to do that without being part of the organization. Additionally, Kirsty was curious about how they were going to safeguard their schools and make sure that the children who were receiving their education in Neath Port Talbot were not disadvantaged if they were to follow through on that decision.",
"query": "What's their opinion in intervening Neath Port Talbot and ERW about addressing the issue of safeguarding their schools?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"70",
"72"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, they would be \"seeking assurances\". It meant that Neath Port Talbot would need to demonstrate to them how they were going to address these problems. However, so far, they had not seen the plans. But if Neath Port Talbot were to push forward and follow on the notice, they would want to see. Now, what they were doing was waiting for their responses.",
"query": "What's their role in intervening Neath Port Talbot and ERW about addressing the issue of safeguarding their schools?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"73",
"81"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, it was the current model. Although they failed to persuade the local government to adopt a new national model, the local authorities had already seen the value in it. However, they were at the stage looking to a wholesale review of the national model. Now they were all focusing on the work of implementation. At the same time, they had the risk of losing focus because of the emphasis on the curriculum and other aspects of the educational system.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about actions towards the document in 2015-\"National model for regional working\".",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"82",
"102"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Now the group was engaging with Steve and other officials on agreeing a plan, but also, that plan was there to support the successful implementation of the curriculum. Based on the words from Kirsty, they were very clear about the roles and responsibilities in the middle tier in this phrase following the publication. Now they had moved into a relentless focus on implementation. Basically, everything now was an emphasis on successful implementation.",
"query": "When would the work of implementation be completed?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"88",
"89"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Steve believed that it was set up to build collective efficacy because what people out there were seeing was a confusion of roles in what the regions were doing, and it was building that collective efficacy so everyone was behind the wheel. They would have collective effort, but they needed to do more within the middle tier.",
"query": "What should be expected from reviewing the role of the middle tier?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"90",
"95"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "In Kirsty's opinion, it appeared that it was placing a focus on the curriculum and other aspects of the educational system. However, there was not a risk from them to lose focus. Absolutely, it was about making sure that there was no duplication, that people were not second-guessing each other's work. There were clear demarcations about who does what in the system. Therefore, there was not a question of losing focus.",
"query": "What's their opinion about the risk of losing focus?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"100",
"102"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, they were trying to develop a broader range of data and statistics that gave them a whole picture of the education performance, rather than narrowing down on one simple indicator that told only one aspect. They would use the Program for International Student Assessment, and any other external assessments that came through organizations like OECD. In addition, they believed that all the challenges and changes involved were made for the right reasons. What was crucial was that it was about more intelligent use of data and what was truly telling about the system.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the long-term trends with regard to raising standards and improving educational attainment.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"103",
"114"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "It was true that the change did make it more challenging. But the changes were made for the right reasons. By taking the example of learning English literature, they had come to a conclusion that they were making those changes because they believed that they were in the best interest of children, and that had to trump ease of comparison.",
"query": "What did they think of making improvement but presenting more of a challenge?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"107",
"109"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The real question was not about communicating the data, but about challenging people on how the data should be used. The data was still available, but it was a challenge to them about how to use the data. Sometimes, how they presented data in the past was lulling some people into a false sense of security about the performance of the system. Therefore, it was about how they used the data. The focus shall be on the more intelligent use and interrogation of the data, and about truly what it was telling us about the system.",
"query": "How do they come to conclusions about what was working if that was not presented on a local authority and regional basis?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"111",
"111"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "According to Kirsty, there was no contradiction at all. They were not in the business of trying to hide the data because it was absolutely in full transparency. It was about how the data was used rather than about hiding data or making that data not available. They needed to dig much, much deeper underneath the data.",
"query": "Was the continuing to publish the local and regional level data contraindicated to what they had said about consortia?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"112",
"114"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Okay. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Janet Finch-Saunders, and also from Dawn Bowden, and I'd like to welcome Huw Irranca-Davies, who is substituting for Dawn Bowden. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. We'll move on, then, to our evidence session for our inquiry on school improvement and raising standards. I'd like to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Steve Davies, director of education. Thank you both for attending and for your detailed paper in advance of the meeting. We've got a lot of ground to cover, so we'll go straight into questions, if that's okay. If I can just start by asking you: to what extent is the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development still involved in the Welsh Government's school improvement journey?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "First of all, can I thank the committee for their invitation this morning, and their interest in this particular area? As you will be aware, on coming into office, the director and I agreed to ask the OECD to do a rapid review of the state of Welsh education at the beginning of this Assembly term. They did that, and the feedback from that work informed the publication and content of the national mission. I was very clear in the national mission that I would invite the OECD back to review our progress against that mission, and that has happened in the tail end of last year, and the OECD will publish their latest report on Welsh education next month now, in March. So, the expectation is that the report will be published on 23 March, and my intention is to make a statement to the Chamber on 24 March. The nature of that review is part of our ongoing development of self-evaluation. So, we talk a lot about self-evaluation in the school system. Actually, the continuing relationship with OECD is about self-evaluation of the entirety of the system and Welsh Government. We don't want to accept our own orthodoxy and just be in a bubble where we are constantly listening to ourselves and those people who might want to agree with us or tell us what we want to hear. So, the OECD is our best attempt of having some external verification of where we are. That's a risk for Ministers and for Government, because we want them to give an honest evaluation of where we are, but that's a really important tool for me, to ensure that we're constantly testing ourselves. The nature of that review is that the OECD were able to talk to whoever they felt it was important to talk to, so that included practitioners on the ground, elements of the middle tier, as well as Welsh Government. And I know, Chair—I hope you'll be pleased to hear this—that the reports of this committee have formed parts of their review, looking at how the Senedd itself has contributed to and has held the Government to account. So, as I said, we expect our report to be published towards the end of March.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you, Minister. Can I ask about the powers under the School Standards and Organisation (Wales) Act 2013, to ask you to tell us about the use of those powers either by Welsh Government or by local authorities, and how effective you feel that legislation has been?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, as you'll be aware, local authorities have quite extensive powers of intervention in schools if they feel that is necessary. If I'm honest, I think there's a mixed picture, with some local authorities using those powers not on a regular basis, but obviously demonstrating a willingness to use those powers. There are other local authorities who don't seem to have used them. Since that legislation came into being, there have been a number of reasons, because of course a local authority has to give a reason for using those powers of intervention. They usually focus on standards, but sometimes they focus on a breakdown in governance arrangements, perhaps, or a failure or a breakdown in financial management. So, sometimes the budgetary issues trigger an intervention power. And the types of interventions that have been used have included, in some cases, appointing additional governors to governing bodies, or suspending a school's delegated budget so the local authority takes on, then, financial control of that particular school, or sometimes applying to the Welsh Government to entirely replace a governing body and establish an intervention board. So, if I can give you an example of where that's been used and has been successful, in Flintshire. They applied to Welsh Government for two interim executive boards, in Sir Richard Gwyn Catholic High School and in Ysgol Trefonnen. They applied to us. Those governing bodies were dissolved. The IEBs were put in place and both of those schools, which had been in special measures, moved quite rapidly, actually, out of special measures. Perhaps the most recent example of this is one that the Chair will know very well in her own constituency of Torfaen, in Cwmbran High School, where Torfaen has intervened in that case. The Welsh Government has not used those powers to date. My expectation always is that local authorities should be the first port of call, and I would encourage—and we always encourage—local authorities to take a proactive approach to intervention and to use those powers. But it's my belief that it is they who are best placed initially to do that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Minister. Can I ask, then, about the national evaluation and improvement resource and how significant a role that will play in the raising of school standards, and how you feel it's evolved since it was first conceived?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "So, this brings us back to the principle of self-evaluation and something, if we're honest, we've not been very good at. If you look at a number of chief inspectors' reports into the Welsh education system, self-evaluation has always been identified as something that is missing or underdeveloped in our system to date, hence, then, the work to establish not a new approach, but a more robust approach to self-evaluation. We've done that in conjunction, again, with the OECD, middle tier and practitioners. It's really important, throughout the entirety of our reform journey that that's done in co-construction, because we want this resource to be usable in schools. So, it's all very well having a conceptual idea and people outside the classroom working on it, but if it's of no practical use to a school leadership team, then we won't see the impact. So, it's—. We're in phase 2 at the moment, where we're doing—. So, the initial resource has been developed by the OECD, middle tier and practitioners. We're in the testing phase at the moment and having it evaluated itself, with a view to introducing that resource across the system at the start of the new academic year, in September 2020. I truly believe that, if we're to make progress in Welsh education, we have to develop the skills within our system to have robust self-evaluation. This resource gives us continuity of approach right the way across Wales. So, it's not left to an individual school to come up with a system; it's right the way across the system. My hope would be that those principles could then be applied to local education authorities, to regional school improvement services and Welsh Government as part of a whole-system approach to self-evaluation. I don't know if there's anything more you want to add, Steve.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Just to add that the other critical partners are Estyn themselves.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Oh, yes, sorry.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, they have played a critical role and, as we know, as the Minister has said in the past, she may introduce policy and practice, but if Estyn are part of it then schools, usually, because they recognise that it will be part of the inspection process—it gives it greater push and support around it. So, they've been key players within it.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "And I think, if I just say as well, that the external perception of what that's about is really important. It's not a test of school readiness for reform, it is a genuine attempt for a school to evaluate their strengths, their weaknesses and where they need to go next. It's not an Estyn checklist. And because of the word 'toolkit'—the feedback was that it gave the impression of a checklist, 'Just do this and check list'. So, we're actually going to change the name of that resource. So, it'll be called the national evaluation and improvement resource, rather than the toolkit, because, as I said, the feedback was that 'toolkit' gave the impression of a checklist exercise, and it's got to be about more than that if it's going to be meaningful. So, it'll be changed to an 'improvement resource'.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Before I bring Suzy in, can I just welcome Siân Gwenllian, who is joining us via video-conference in north Wales? Morning, Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Good morning. Can you hear me?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "We can, yes. We can hear you very nicely, thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Suzy, you've got a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Only a very quick one. It's about the development of the—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The resource.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, the resource, thank you—about whether there were any conflicting ideas in the process of development that made it quite difficult to zone in on something that school leadership teams, in particular, could rely on. Were there differences of opinion on what this should look like?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Not that I'm aware of from the practitioners that I've spoken to who have been part of that. So, for instance, Suzy, you will know the very small school of Gladestry. The head of Gladestry has been involved in this process, and she said that she'd really enjoyed the process of working alongside Estyn and the OECD as a school leader to be able to shape it. But I'm not aware that there's been conflict in that process.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not suggesting that there has been; I'm just interested as to how it had worked, that's all.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Chair, I think, inevitably, when you bring stakeholders together, they're not going to be in total agreement as to how it's going to work, and I think initially one of the challenges was having Estyn there as part of the facilitation group. There are always some concerns that, actually, it's coming from a to inspect, oral, judgmental tick box. So, we had some early day challenges where we had to convince—and, ultimately, Estyn convinced them—that they were there to help and support as opposed to to inspect, and that the model that was developed, as the Minister said, was not going to be a tick box, 'You are good at this part of self-evaluation', it was to build the skillsets up.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, it's got their full confidence.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and I think again, also, what—. You know, four years into the job, what I've reflected on as well is there is this sometimes a feeling out there that the Minister says all the right stuff, but you're not actually going to do it, so, when you talk about a new approach to doing things, you're not actually serious about it. So, trying to build that confidence that we are serious about developing a new system around self-improvement, which is different from accountability—sometimes, the practitioners are like, 'Oh, yes, we've heard it all before but it never actually happens.' And I think that's been a part of the constant—not pressure, but the responsibility on Welsh Government is in following through. So, we said that we were going to do this in the national mission, and we are going to do it. I'm really proud that there or thereabouts, a few months either way, we've actually kept to the timetable as outlined in the national mission, and that helps build confidence within the sector that we are committed to that programme and we're going to do what we say we're going to do.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "And a final question from me: how effective do you think the investment in school standards has been in this Assembly term, as opposed to the approach taken in the last Assembly term, where there was the protection put in place for core school budgets?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think, first of all, it's important that, whilst this additional resource is specifically targeted at school standards, that is only a part of a much wider education budget, a budget that—you know—is incredibly complex. And so it is really challenging to be able to draw straight lines—you know, 'We did this and it's resulted in that'—given that we're looking at the entirety of school funding here. What's been really important is that, if you drill down into what that money has been spent on, 50 per cent of it has been directed towards professional learning in one form or another to support our teaching professionals. And that's been really important to me. I've said it time and time again: an education system cannot exceed the quality of the people who stand in front of our children day in, day out to work with them and teach them. Therefore, that investment in staff and investment in the professional learning of our staff and support for them I think is making a difference already but, importantly, will continue to make a difference. But I think it is really challenging to be able to say, 'Well, we spent this bit of money and it definitely led to that', because it's such a complex picture. But that money, the way it's been spent, has been driven by evidence. And, again, what we do know from international best practice, what do we know that works in driving up standards, and then how can we align the money that we've got to supporting that? And, as I said, 50 per cent of that money has gone directly to simply supporting the professional learning of those who work with our children.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. We're going to talk now a bit about schools causing concern with questions from Huw Irranca-Davies.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. If I can, just first of all, zoom in on the way in which we actually decide which schools need what support. So, one of the interesting questions for us is how do we use the different systems out there. So, we've got the school categorisation system, which we're familiar with. We've also got Estyn inspection reports, then we've got other intelligence, including local intelligence on the ground. How do you decide from that? How is it decided what schools need support, need challenge? How do we do that?",
"speaker": "Huw Irranca-Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, you're right: what we have is a variety of ways in which we can identify schools that need support, or need to be challenged on their practice. But it's important not to confuse them either. So, our primary route to doing this is our school categorisation system. Sometimes, and perhaps this is inevitable—. That system is primarily there as a triage system around identifying where our resource should be spent. So, our school improvement service—it's a risk-based approach, so they can evaluate where they need to put their time, effort and resource. Sometimes, it's used by other people for other things, but that is not its primary purpose; its primary purpose there is not one of accountability, it is one of identifying risk and aligning that then to the support that is available. Estyn—now that is part of that accountability system. That is our method of holding schools and their governing bodies to account for their practice and for the work that they do. Both systems, of course, are evolving. So, how we do categorisation has changed over a period of time. The elements that go into making that judgment around the levels of support have changed, and, of course, the Estyn inspection regime is also changing. At the moment, schools are only inspected once every seven years. We're moving to a system where Estyn will be more regularly in schools. So, they are two systems, but they are different and they look at different things. But our categorisation system is how we look for those ways of identifying support for schools.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And you've made, with feedback over the last few years, adjustments to the way that the categorisation system works. Are you content with where it is now, or do you see more adjustments being made? Have you got things in front of you that you're getting feedback on saying 'Well, we need to tweak this again a little bit'?",
"speaker": "Huw Irranca-Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, that system has evolved over time. So, when it started, it was just a tool around secondary schools. Now, it covers the breadth of schools. Initially, on coming into office, when I first came in, it was purely driven by data, and it was also done in quartiles. So, there was a certain number of schools that had to be in the bottom, which drove practitioners mad. They were like 'Ah, every year, there's going to be some of us that have to be in the bottom quartile', because of the way in which it was arranged, which seemed very unfair to them. So, we've changed that. It's not just purely driven on data now; there are other judgments—the professional judgments of our challenge advisers are taken into account. And I would expect that situation to continue to evolve to align itself to our curriculum reform, and our changes in self-evaluation. So, it's not a fixed point. I expect that that system will continue to evolve and change, so that it complements and assists in the reform journey as other parts of the system change.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thanks for that. I think, for any impartial reader of the way that the trends have been going on this, there is some good news within that, in that, certainly, those schools that might have been identified as have been okay but coasting along, seem to be moving up the categories, although we still do have that—. Well, it's what the system is there to do, it's to identify those schools that do need that additional support. And I like your analogy of a triage system—'You're fit; keep on doing what you're doing and do it well; you need more support, we'll put the support in.' But, can I turn to those schools that are causing significant concern, and how we identify them? The Estyn chief inspector's conclusions at the end of the 2017-18 report that these schools are not being identified early enough—there's a need to do something urgently about these concerns, particularly in secondary schools. Have we addressed that? Are you content that we've addressed that concern? Was he right?",
"speaker": "Huw Irranca-Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "No, the chief inspector is absolutely right—absolutely right. I've got no beef with that statement at all. In some ways, when a school goes into special measures, in a way, that's a failure of the system, because that should have been identified sooner. So I've got no beef, as I said, with the chief inspector saying that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So just to ask, bearing in mind the earlier discussion we were having, how is it that we don't identify those schools?",
"speaker": "Huw Irranca-Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "That's it—you're quite right. Undoubtedly, what categorisation has done is led to a greater understanding, I think, on behalf of local education authorities' and school improvement services' knowledge about their schools. I think knowledge around schools is greatly enhanced by that process. But we are not there yet in terms of necessarily, then, moving those schools more quickly, once they've been identified as needing the highest level of support to see improvement. And secondary schools is a particular, particular challenge. So you will have seen from the last publication of categorisation data that our primary sector continues to improve—more and more and more of our primary schools are in a green rating, which is very satisfying to me. But we have got more of an issue with secondary schools, and we have a particular issue with the same schools being identified in that level of categorisation. So even though we've identified them as needing that extra help, they are not moving at pace away from that system. So there are two things that we are doing at the moment. The first is, we are, again, looking at different sets of data that can give us even earlier warning systems that things are going wrong in a school—and perhaps Steve will explain later. For instance, staff sickness, and carefully monitoring staff sickness, because there is a direct correlation between high levels of staff sickness in a school and what is going on in the school. And Steve can explain some of this work later. But we're piloting a new approach to those schools that are causing concern. Each local authority has been asked to identify two of their high schools that they are particularly worried about. And we have a new multi-agency approach, working with those schools to try and move them more forward. So it's two from each region, a multi-agency panel, working with the school. And that multi-agency panel includes the school itself, the local authority, the regional consortia school improvement staff, Estyn and Welsh Government—as a multi-agency panel to support improvement in that school. So, for instance, what would normally happen, Estyn would come in, Estyn would make a judgment on the school—requiring special measures or urgent improvement—and Estyn would go away. They'd go away for six months, and then they'd come back in six months, and they'd make another judgment, 'No, still not good enough', and disappear for six months. We're saying—Estyn and the Welsh Government have agreed that's not the best approach; Estyn need to be part of the solution, rather than just coming and making a judgment. The initial feedback from this trial is very, very positive. Actually, we've had local authorities coming to us and saying, 'Can we put more schools in? Rather than just having two of our high schools, can we engage more in this project and this pilot?' It's being evaluated by Cardiff Metropolitan University and Swansea University, so we're having some academic overview to see, actually, does this approach work, can we evidence it—that it actually makes a difference? And it's actually—I'd like to claim all the credit for it, but it's actually not dissimilar to something that's happening in Scotland as well. But we knew that carrying on doing the same old thing clearly wasn't moving these schools, we needed a new approach, and this is what we're doing at the moment. So it's relatively new, but the initial feedback is positive. Steve, I don't know—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think your important point is about, 'What about the schools that are sliding in that direction?' And it's bringing together what we know from Estyn, but also, critically, local authorities have knowledge of their schools, and so do consortia. We've got to be better at bringing those together. So, the Minister gave the example of staff sickness—not always a trigger, but it's one of those. If you look at movement of pupils out of a school, you can look at complaints, you can look at, actually, emerging increased use of HR resources that a school pulls on a local authority. None of these have been pushed up into the public domain, but they're important antennae. The point the Minister made about Estyn as well is, historically, when they go into special measures, Estyn, at the end of that week, call in, historically, either the region or the local authority, they will feed back to one of them, and then they go away. So, they are staying with it. So, we are brining together the knowledge. But, as the Minister said, we want to keep a very clear distinction between the accountability and the transparency to the public, to parents, with the very detailed collective work of that multi-agency group to actually make that difference over time.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, does that—. I'd love to go further, but time is against us. Does that deal with the issue of the schools that have been identified in those categories of requiring significant improvement and requiring special measures? Are those the ones that will be identified now, or is that above and beyond that again?",
"speaker": "Huw Irranca-Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, those are the ones that are primarily at the forefront of our minds, but this way of sharing data better, to step in earlier, is part of our attempt to address what the chief inspector says about stepping in early—not waiting until a school gets into special measures and a formal judgment from Estyn of that, but actually using that intelligence to get support in there earlier. The three elements that that multi-agency approach look at are: what are the fundamentals that need addressing in this school? What is the capacity of the school itself to be able to address those fundamentals? And, what extra support needs to go into that senior management team and the governing body to get those fundamentals addressed? And actually, what does sustainable improvement look like? Because, again, one of the issues, sometimes, that happens is, a school goes into a category with Estyn, there's a big push and a big, 'We must do something' and the school comes out, but actually, that improvement is not sustainable. It's the low-hanging fruit; it's the easy wins that have been achieved, but actually, perhaps some of the fundamental challenges underlying in that school haven't been addressed in that process. So, this is about what will sustainable improvement look like in six months, what's it going to look like in 12 months and what's it going to look like in 18 months. So, actually, a more strategic, longer term approach to real change in a school rather than, perhaps, some of the easy-to-fix items that make a school as if it's doing better, but we really haven't tackled some of the underlying problems that make that school vulnerable to slipping back. Does that make sense?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I've got a couple of supplementaries on—. Sorry?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Does that make sense?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. We've got a couple of supplementaries on this, first from Suzy and then from Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you for that, Chair. Obviously, I'm pleased to hear that this work is being done, but I'm wondering—. What strikes me, in the recent past, at least, particularly as we've got the usual suspects in this category—. I've got to ask myself why it is that councils have been reluctant, perhaps, to step in with these schools earlier, particularly as they've got consortia or middle-tier support as well. Has there been a deficit in that space that has meant that councils don't feel equipped to step in? I just don't really get it why they've been reluctant to step in so far. If they've been nervous about doing it, because they don't feel that they've got the tools to do it, then I think that's pretty important, because as you were saying, we were talking about fundamentals; surely, councils have been able to deal with fundamentals, and more importantly, consortia up until now. Because, obviously, we're asking these players to give us evidence at some point, so perhaps I'd like to challenge them on how come we're here now.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "And rightly so.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not laying this at your door.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "And rightly so. I guess each local authority will have an explanation for each individual school, I suspect. What's crucial to me is that we have to—. I see our job as corralling the collective effort, and I think, for too long in the system, there has been a lack of co-ordination. So, this is about bringing and corralling a collective effort to address this, going forward, in more sustainable way. And I think it does come back to this issue around self-evaluation and a willingness to be open, honest and upfront about some of the challenges that we've got. It's not easy, is it? It's not easy to accept or to acknowledge sometimes when things are—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "That they don't know how to do this.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, that they're going badly, or perhaps they don't know exactly how to make the difference. So this approach, as I said, is a new way of trying to coral that collective effort across the board. But, I don't know if Steve—because you've done other roles in the system, so perhaps you've got a different insight.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think you're right. The variation across the country, across local authorities—. There are some local authorities that we've worked with and we identify have taken the appropriate action. There are others that we're working with, and yes, at its best, it's done as a joint exercise where they use their regional school improvement service to help in the identification that there is a need for this. They take advice as to what the action is, whether it is, as the Minister said, in the more significant areas, a board, or whether a warning notice comes in terms of standards or finance. So, we're working with them and we're working with the Welsh Local Government Association to share that practice. An example of that work is: we have done a development training session for cabinet members for education, and scrutiny leads for education across Wales, and all 22 local authorities came to that and engaged with that. That was partly about self-improvement, but it was also about where significant issues arise, you have to constructively confront them. And that comes with what the region knows, and increasingly, we're looking to have it consistently across 22 local authorities, so they are collecting all the additional data that we referred to earlier, so they can legitimately hold a mirror up and say, 'This is a real concern that we have. We're not punishing you, but we're registering the seriousness, and we want you to address it.' And we're making progress. I believe it's genuinely more consistent now, but I'd be lying if I said that there was consistency across all 22 local authorities.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I'm conscious of time.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I've got a supplementary from Siân, then back to Huw.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Because you are moving to a more sophisticated approach in terms of identifying problems sooner, and so can offer the support earlier, is it time to think about moving away from the system of categorisation entirely? That is, has the categorisation system reached the end of its usefulness, and is the multi-agency approach, this more sophisticated approach, a better way, ultimately, of being able to assist schools in moving forward?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, Siân, as I said earlier, the categorisation system has evolved over time, and my expectation is that it will continue to evolve, because it has to be consistent with our overall approach to school improvement and raising standards. I expect OECD will have feedback for us on this important part of our system, and we'll wait to see exactly what they say about it, but as I said in answer to Huw Irranca-Davies earlier, I haven't got a closed mind; we've demonstrated over the last four years our willingness to change the system to make it a smarter system, and we will continue to keep that under review, as we move forward. If I could just go back briefly, it doesn't sound like a very exciting thing, does it, when we say we've been doing work with the WLGA, with cabinet members, but also scrutiny, because that's a really important part of the jigsaw as well, is actually local government scrutiny of the performance of your education portfolio holder and the leadership of your council. So this is about trying to up the ante on all sides, so that those issues around 'What are you doing in your local authority to use the powers that you have?' You know, sometimes, making sure that everybody in that authority—those in power and those who are there to hold those in power to account—have the necessary skills, knowledge and understanding to do that appropriately.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Huw, briefly.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, briefly. I only have one final question. We've talked a lot about early identification; getting in there and then managing the improvement, this triage approach there, and then getting some grip of it, as well, in doing all of that. But my question now is on what we currently have. I won't touch on the primary schools, but let's just look at secondary schools—11 per cent of secondary schools inspected in the last two academic years judged as unsatisfactory, needing urgent improvement. There will always be secondary schools and primary schools that hit moments of crisis for one reason or another, but 11 per cent to me, and to any layperson, would seem unreasonably high. Are you—? It would be daft to ask you if you're content. What is a level that you would be content with of having schools in red category in Wales?",
"speaker": "Huw Irranca-Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "You're right. Schools will need different levels of support at different points, and sometimes, it's not because of a crisis. So, for instance, in my region, we do have an increase in the number of schools in the amber category. That's because we've seen in that particular region a number of headteachers retire because they've reached retirement age, and there are new headteachers. Well, that is a moment of risk in the school—when senior leadership changes. Nothing else has changed in that school, but the simple fact that you have a new leader, sometimes in those cases it might be their first headship. That means that that school is going to need a little bit of extra support, so it isn't always just a crisis that needs extra support, there are just general things that happen in the life of a school that could lead to it. But you're absolutely right—we have a particular challenge in the secondary sector where we have not been able to move individual schools forward at pace. And 11 per cent is not acceptable to me, Huw, which is why we have introduced this new pilot to address those schools where, persistently, we have concerns about their ability to move forward. If we'd have carried on doing the same thing, I suspect we would have just carried on getting the same result—hence the need for a new approach to those schools that are causing concern.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Very briefly, the things we talked about earlier was how we measure the performance of schools, particularly at GCSEs, with a narrow focus. As was said earlier, some of these are the same groups—they trip in and then they don't come out. Our belief is, from research, that they concentrate on squeezing the pips to get the grades up in some small areas for a period of time, and you can do that by targeting and immersing them. Estyn can tick the box to say your grades have got better, but we haven't handled the serious underpinning issues—leadership, teaching and learning, and bringing those together. As the Minister said, what does sustainable improvement look like in six, 12, 18 months? It isn't just, as important as they are, getting those exam grades up a bit. They're the fundamental—. And if they're all agreed as the indicators at the outset, we're more likely—. So it's multi-agency; it's not a little activity, it's a major strategy.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Hefin David has some questions now on the middle tier.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'd like to consider the work of the consortia. In 2016, your election manifesto very clearly said that you wanted to abolish regional consortia—three words in it. Why haven't you done it?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Because, given that you're such a keen student of my manifesto, you'll also know that—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "It was only three words.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "The Liberal Democrat manifesto also said that we supported major local government reform and a major reduction in the number of local government units. That hasn't happened. I have to say genuinely, my experience over the last four years has proven to me the value of regional working, and in the absence of significant local government reform, I think it's absolutely vital that we have scale in school improvement services—scale that I don't think can be delivered across 22 individual local authorities.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, if there was local government reform, you would abolish the consortia.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think if there was significant local government reform and we could demonstrate that those units had such a scale that they could perform the functions of regional consortia, then I think it would be inevitable that any education Minister would look to see whether there was an opportunity to change structures. But in the absence of that, Hefin, I have been absolutely convinced whilst doing this job that you need larger units to be able to carry out successful school improvement work, and I think it would be reckless to advocate the system going back to school improvement being organised in 22 different ways.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Do you think that the work of the four consortia has been consistent and effective?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "The school improvement services?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "The four consortia.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, as with individual local education authorities, there are some regional consortia services that have performed really highly—and that's not me saying that, that's Estyn, but gives us assurance around that—and there are others that need to improve. I think the consortia themselves would admit that they, since their establishment, have found new ways of working. Initially, they were very separate entities that did things their own way. Increasingly, over recent years, we have seen those consortia working together on a national approach, but delivered on a regional basis. So I think they themselves have evolved over time. But we are constantly looking for optimum delivery from those particular organisations, but as I said, I think it would be absolutely reckless to go back to a situation where school improvement services were being delivered individually on 22 different bases.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I'm happy to accept that you've changed your opinion there; that's no problem at all. But with regard to the four consortia, and we'll take Education through Regional Working as an example, it does things differently to the other three. Is that a cause for concern, or do you think that's entirely appropriate?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, ERW does things differently, but then so does the Education Achievement Service. EAS is constituted in a different way to the Central South Consortium. What I'm interested in is not necessarily how they are constituted and organised, I'm interested in the effectiveness of that organisation to deliver for children and for teachers. ERW has got particular challenges, and we continue to work with those in ERW to address those, but increasingly, as I said, what we are seeing the regional consortia do is develop a national approach to school improvement services but deliver that on a regional basis so that there is greater consistency in terms of delivery.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Are you happy that, within the ERW area, local authorities employ their own improvement advisers, rather than doing it in the way that the others do?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "We have discussed this at length with them. My preference would be for school improvement officers to be employed in the centre, and we continue to have those discussions, but what's really important to understand is that the regional consortia are not a beast of the Government; they are a beast of the local authorities that have worked together to create a school improvement service that meets their needs. So we can't impose that solution, and we continue to discuss with ERW what is the optimal way, and they continue to discuss with their constituent local authorities about how that should be organised.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Are you concerned that Neath Port Talbot have given notice that they want to withdraw from regional working?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's really disappointing that Neath Port Talbot have published that notice. What's important for me is to understand—not for me, it will be important for Estyn. It will be really important for us to understand how Neath Port Talbot intend to support their schools and their teachers if they were to withdraw from ERW, especially at what is a very, very critical time. The regional consortia have a key role to play in supporting systems with the introduction of the curriculum. I would want to know from Neath Port Talbot how they are going to do that without being part of that organisation. And, of course, there's the added complexity that so much of our money is channelled through to schools via the regional consortia. So, I would want to understand from Neath Port Talbot how they're going to safeguard their schools and make sure that the children who are receiving their education in Neath Port Talbot are not disadvantaged if they were to follow through on that decision.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Do you feel that it's your role to intervene in that area and instruct Neath Port Talbot and ERW as to how they should resolve this issue?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said, I would be seeking assurances—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "What does that mean, though, 'seeking assurances'?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, Neath Port Talbot would need to demonstrate to me how they're going to address these issues. If they're not part of ERW and their schools and their children are not going to be in receipt of the support from ERW, as I said, especially at this critical time, how are they intending to do that? I haven't seen those plans, but if they were to push forward and follow through on the notice, I would want to see them and I suspect Estyn would want to see them also.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, just last issue on that: you're just waiting to see what Neath Port Talbot do next, then.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we have written to Neath Port Talbot to ask them to demonstrate to us, if they were to pull out of ERW, how they're going to meet their functions. I have not heard back from them.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Steve, did you want to say something?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Obviously—[Inaudible.]—that point. We wrote to them last Friday, and we are awaiting their response now.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, that's where we are. Okay. There was the document in 2015—'National model for regional working'. Is that the current document? Are there plans to change or update it, or is that exactly where we stand?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "So, that is the current model. Some work was undertaken in 2017 and 2018 to look to update that model and revise that model. Some specific recommendations were put forward about additional services that could be organised on a regional basis; primarily, that is a specialist human resources resource. We know that, because of austerity in some local authorities, HR departments have been really stretched. Education HR is a specialist service, it's not generic. It's often a service that—. I see that as part of a school improvement service. Support for governors also has been stretched within individual local authorities. So, a proposal was put forward to include specialist HR and governor support as part of the regional model. That was rejected by local government. Our local authorities did not want to include that in the regional model. However, I must say, having presented that evidence, some of our local authorities, even though there wasn't a national agreement to put that into the national model, have pooled their resources, and those services are being delivered and supported on a regional basis. So, for instance, the Education Achievement Service now provide specialist HR resource, and EAS and Central South provide governor support. So, although we weren't successful in persuading local government to adopt a new national model, local authorities in those areas saw the value of moving that way.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, with that in mind, and perhaps I'll put this to Steve Davies, everything the Minister just said, and also the line in the document— 'The implementation of this model will change over time'— is it time to go back to that document and review it from a procedural point of view?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think it's necessarily timely to go back and have a complete review of it. But, certainly, we are in ongoing discussions with the Welsh Local Government Association, both in terms of work with local authorities, and the type of intervention in schools. So, we keep a constant watch as to which areas that we believe we could develop further. We are not currently intending to do a wholesale review of that. As the Minister touched on earlier, there is some work to get consistency across the current area, particularly, as we just mentioned, in relation to ERW work. So, it's getting a consistent approach at that level, and sharing the practice. I think what is emerging, as the Minister said, is that there are two regions who have already made this shift to pool services. I think the two other regions are seeing and will see the benefits of that, and instead of forcing it through, we'd expect that to evolve. But we're not, at this stage, looking to a wholesale review of the national model.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "And Professor Dylan Jones's strategic delivery group seems to have had quite a warm welcome in the sector. Is it fair to say that?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I believe so. I'm very grateful to Dylan for his hard work and his skill in chairing that group, and I think it's been welcomed by all, so that we can get that clarity and consistency about the roles and responsibilities of the individual partners and players in the middle tier.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And when will the work be completed, and what will the outcomes be?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the group is currently engaging with Steve and other officials on agreeing a plan, but also, crucially, that plan is there to support the successful implementation of the curriculum, so that we're very clear about the roles and responsibilities in the middle tier in this crucial phase following the publication. We have to move now from the publication into a relentless focus on implementation. The history of devolution is full of fantastic documents, and, shall I say, patchy implementation. The work that has gone into that curriculum is too important for implementation to be left to chance. It's too important. It's too good to be left to chance. So, everything now is a relentless focus on successful implementation.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but I'm thinking that the strategic delivery is reviewing the role of the middle tier. So, you know, what do we expect to see from it, notwithstanding the kind of softly, softly approach that you've already talked about?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "It was set up, actually, about 18 months ago—just under. It was set up to build collective efficacy, because what people out there are seeing is that there's a confusion of roles, in what the regions are doing, and it was building that collective efficacy so everyone was behind the wheel. So, they've been looking at who is doing what for the last 18 months, and exploring and making some changes themselves. It's not just what they do with Government or what they do with each other; it's just happened that it's timely, because one of the key bits of feedback we believe we will get from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development is we have had co-construction, we'd had collective effort, but we need to do more, particularly within the middle tier. This is not controlled by Government, it is arm's length from Government, and it's not their job to get it ready for the new curriculum—that's a key part of it. This group will have an ongoing role; it's not a task and finish group. It does feed back in to the Minister but there's no formal mechanism by which they have to report.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Okay, that's very clear.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I've got supplementaries from Suzy, then Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Briefly, please.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think this is a really interesting evidence session. What I'm about to say, I say it even though I'm a big localist: it all seems to be heading in one direction of a national service. Is the strategic group even thinking in these terms, obviously building in local accountability? But it'll just make it so much easier in terms of accountability and consistency to monitor what the middle tier does, if it's a national service, like the National Adoption Service. Local delivery, national service—is it heading in that direction?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "That's not the intention of setting the group up. As Steve just said, I receive feedback from Dylan, because I meet Dylan in this particular capacity on a planned basis. He is there to give me advice on the middle tier, and to give me advice on what he thinks Welsh Government needs to do. But I've not had that conversation with him about a national service.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, thank you for that.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "What I was going to raise has been answered already, that is that, from what I can see, the work that Professor Dylan Jones is doing has evolved somewhat. I felt that, originally, the idea was to look at the middle tier in terms of any kind of duplication that was happening, and where it was possible to tighten up the people going into schools from different directions. But it appears that it has evolved to be something that's much more than that, and that it is placing a focus on the curriculum and other aspects of the educational system. Is there a risk for them to lose focus in that sense?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "No, not at all. I think they are very, very clear around establishing roles and responsibilities for each of the players and to be very clear about the expectations that each part of the middle tier can have of each other, as to what they can expect from their partners in the middle tier. And absolutely, it is about making sure that there isn't duplication, that people aren't second-guessing each other's work, and there are clear demarcations about who does what in the system, and, as I said, knowing that you can rely on your colleague in the middle tier to do the bit that they are responsible for. So, I don't think there's a question of it losing focus.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We've got a lot of areas to cover so we are going to have to pick up our pace a bit. The next questions are from Siân Gwenllian.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thinking about you as a Minister trying to see what the long-term trends are with regard to raising standards and improving educational attainment, is that difficult, because the performance measures have changed, haven't they? We can't compare like-for-like now, because of the changes that have been made in the way that performance is measured. So, to begin with, is that a challenge, to see whether progress has been made? And secondly, what evidence do you as Minister use to look at the long-term trends?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "The first thing to say, with regard to changes to performance measures—you're right that change to those does make it, in some cases, more difficult to look at trends over a period of time. But those changes are made for really good reasons. If we change a performance measure, it is done to ensure that it is in the best interests of learners. And I think the best interests of learners always trumps the ease of comparison. I understand that, for researchers and for opposition Members, even for Ministers, it would be simpler to have the same set of measures over a period of time. But if we know that those things are driving behaviours that are unhelpful to children, and not in the best interests of children, then we have to change them, even thought that then does create challenges in different areas. With regard to what do we look at, there are a number of ways that we gain data and look at data in the system: everything from the categorisation system we spoke of earlier, and trends in categorisation; we look at Estyn reports; we continue to look at examination results. But we're trying to develop a broader range of data and statistics that give us a whole picture of the education performance, rather than narrowing down on one simple indicator that tells you one thing but doesn't tell you everything. But I don't know, Steve, if there's anything further that you'd like to add.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "It's going back to what the Member raised earlier, in terms of the range of things that you look at—things that can make a difference. So, when Estyn review schools, or we're looking to develop national frameworks for things like mental health and well-being, which look to the practice that enables raising standards, it's collecting that information, both at a national level, through the annual review of Estyn, as well as our engagement with regions and local authorities. So, it's looking at the evidence base that goes beyond, but impacts on data. And, inevitably, we will use the Programme for International Student Assessment, and any other external assessments that come through organisations like the OECD. And even where we've changed the performance measures, we still have, at national level, the ongoing data. So, if you looked at level 2 plus, we believe it is important that children get five good GCSEs—for higher education and for employment. So, we've not lost sight of those at a national level—we're not using them as a narrow set of performance measures for individual schools.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "So, if we look at—level 2 plus is a good example. We know that a relentless focus on that single measure, as a way of judging the system, leads to a set of behaviours in schools. It narrows the focus onto a certain part of the cohort, it narrows the curriculum, when we know that children—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not challenging the fact that you've changed the performance measures—I understand that, and having a broader way of looking is better in the long run. I'm just saying, because there's been this change, it makes it more of a challenge—whilst accepting why you've made the changes, but it does present more of a challenge, presumably, because you have to look at more indicators, and take evidence from different places. But I take it that you're confident that the trajectory is going in the right way.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I think we are making improvements. But you're right: it does make it more challenging. But those changes are being made for the right reasons, as I said, whether that be at level 2 plus. Look at English literature. I understand why perhaps a performance measure around English was introduced, but the effect of that was that significant numbers of children—and, it must be said, usually children who are entitled to free school meals—were suddenly not sitting English literature GCSE. We've changed that performance measure, and guess what? Last year, we saw a significant increase in the number of children that were sitting English literature GCSE. For standards of literacy and oracy, I think studying literature is really, really important, before we even get into the joy of introducing children to the written word and the love of reading. So, we make changes. Yes, it causes challenges, but we're making those changes because we believe that they are in the best interest of children, and that has to trump ease of comparison.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Why have you decided to ask the consortia, Estyn and so on not to report on local data or regional level data? How do we then come to conclusions about what is working if it isn't presented on a local authority and regional basis?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think the thing to say about the communications from Welsh Government, Estyn, and the WLGA is it's not about not communicating the data, it's about challenging people on how that data should be used. So, the data is still available, but it's a challenge to them about how to use that data. So, for instance, when we're presenting data that compares local authority to local authority, you could have a local authority that says, 'There we go, I'm above the national average. I don't need to worry about the education in my local authority, because I'm above the average, or I'm better than my neighbour.' That doesn't necessarily mean that everything is right in your local education authority. Perhaps your children should be doing even better than what you're presented with. So, actually, it's not about hiding data; it's about how you use the data appropriately. And sometimes, how we were presenting data in the past was lulling some people into a false sense of security about the performance of their system. So, it's about how you use data, and that's what the communication from Welsh Government and the WLGA and Estyn was about: think very carefully about this data and what it's telling you about your system, and don't be lulled into a false sense of security that you may be doing brilliantly. Or, perhaps, looking at your data, you may think, 'Oh, my goodness me, we're not doing very well at all', but, actually, more careful consideration of that might show that your school's impact on those children is really, really a positive one. So, you've got to use that data in the context. So, it's not about less data. If anything, it's about more data and, crucially for me, it's about more intelligent use and interrogation of that data, about truly what it's telling you about your system.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But again, the Welsh Government—. You have continued to publish the local and regional level data. So, doesn't that contradict what you've been telling the consortia and everyone else?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "No, not at all. As I said, we're not in the business of trying to hide data—I believe absolutely in full transparency. And in terms of level 2 data, I think I'm not moving away from the point that I think it's really important that more and more children get five really good GCSEs. I think it's important for their life chances. It is about how that data is used, not about hiding data or making that data not available.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I, very briefly—? We didn't just send a letter out collectively. We've now carried out training jointly with WLGA and Estyn on how to use that data. So, it's not just looking where your LA is; it's also not looking at whether your school's better than average for the authority. And it is well received, and it should broaden the approach of scrutiny committees to beyond what historically was, if I'm honest, looking at the league table for their authority or looking at the league table of local authorities. It's not that they shouldn't be looking at that, but they need to dig much, much deeper underneath it.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We're going to go on now to Suzy. I'm going to appeal for brief questions and brief answers so that we can cover the rest of the questions.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'll shorten these questions, okay. We know why you got rid of the old measures. We've got interim measures now. What are they telling you about the success you've had in trying to avoid the bad behaviour? Short answers.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "It's impossible. [Laughter.] I think it's inevitable: whatever kind of measures we put in place, people will look to maximise their success in those measures, and I don't think we'll ever come up with a system where those measures are absolutely perfect. What's really important to me is that we're really, really, really challenging schools to look at the performance of all of their children, rather than just at a very, very narrow cohort around those C/D boundaries, which we knew was detrimental, potentially, to more able and talented children and really pushing those Bs to As and those As to A*s, and children for whom actually just getting in to school on a daily basis is an achievement, and the school has done well to provide that. So, our new capped 9 makes sure that there is breadth across a range of subjects, rather than just focusing on a narrower and narrower bunch of subject opportunities for children, and our new third-third-third system enables schools to really look at their performance. So if their capped 9 score is high, what's driving that? Is it because the bottom third of the cohort is doing really well, and the impact on those children is above and beyond what could be expected, but actually, you're not doing very well for your more able and talented; you're not pushing them on? Alternatively, maybe your capped 9 score is because your MAT children are doing incredibly well, but actually, you're not really making the progress for the middle tier of those children. It allows us to have a greater focus on the performance of our FSM children—where they really are within that system. So, it's a much more granular—. And crucially for me, it looks at the impact for every child, because every child has to matter in the system, and what we had before was a narrowing of curriculum choice and a narrowing on a certain cohort of children.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So are the permanent measures likely to be pretty similar to what you've got now? Because the research—I don't know if the research is complete yet. When will you be publishing the new permanent evaluation?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Sue, you're right: they're interim measures at the moment, and we will need to make sure that the performance measures are aligned to the new curriculum. That, potentially, of course—. Because Wales's review of qualifications potentially has an impact on what those finally will look like, so that work is ongoing at the moment, and unless Steve can tell me off the top of his head when we expect that to be completed by, I will send you a note. But they're interim at the moment, because we need to align them to the new curriculum.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we understand that. [Inaudible.]—date.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "No, no. This is not a quick fix. This is a two to three-year research base. The new qualifications for the new curriculum will not start until 2025. They have to be in place for 2022. There's a three-year roll on. I would expect the broad structure of the interim measures to continue over that time. There will be some tweaks for consistency. It's what's wrapped around those interim measures that I touched on earlier: the other evidence that we bring to bear about the effectiveness of a school, but we do want to say to schools that on the whole, broadly speaking, the interim measures will carry on for two, three years.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "Okay, and the reason I asked that is right at the beginning of this session, the Minister said to the Chair that this £100 million that's going into school improvements will be going into things that work. We need some evidence that the interim measures are going to work as well, so when are they going to be evaluated?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we've only just used them for one year.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "That's what I'm asking you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We've signalled that they're only going to be in place for three years. We are carrying out our own review of the impact of those and that's been built in, but I expect the OECD report—because it is an extensive report—to give us feedback on how those things are working now, and some steer, as they did with the last report, as to the direction we would want to go into.",
"speaker": "Steve Davies"
},
{
"content": "And what I'm also interested in is those performance management measures around schools. Yes, they're about outcomes for children, but actually are about a broader suite of behaviours within that school, so, yes, qualifications and grades are an important part of a performance measure, but actually, I have other expectations of schools, above and beyond simply qualifications. And so, we would want our permanent set of performance measures to look at a wider set of behaviours within a school, and I think because—. Exams are important—of course they are, qualifications are important—but the way in which those schools achieve those results are also important.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Would you anticipate that including well-being, then?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "In a whole-school approach.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I absolutely—and we need to find a way of how we can truly measure that. Sometimes, children's well-being is influenced by lots of things outside the control of a school. So, I don't want schools to be held accountable for things that they have no control over, because of the circumstances in which a child may be living. But, absolutely: well-being and how the culture of the school addresses well-being is really important to me.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Suzy. Move on to PISA, please.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "How useful is PISA for you in helping school improvement? I know that it's not always the thing that you enjoy watching or looking out for. But, genuinely, how useful is it?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "It is one of a range of tools that we need to look at. Siân, quite rightly, talked about consistency. PISA is one thing where there is a level of consistency, so it will continue to be, I think, an important part of how we test how our system is doing.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "We know that you are a little bit encouraged, but we are not out of the woods yet. You mentioned this in Plenary when we talked about PISA. How confident are you that we are on track for meeting these targets that were set before your time, or do you think that having those targets is helpful? Is it setting up aspirations that are incapable of being met within a period of time?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, those long-term targets of a score around 500 are part of 'Our National Mission', and we have to keep the pressure on to strive. They are testing, but we have to keep the pressure on to strive to reach them. In some cases, I can be quite encouraged. If we look at reading scores for girls, we are almost there, but that just demonstrates what a journey we've got with our boys to address. For me, one of the ways in which we will reach those targets and achieve them is further progress on our more able and talented children. Although we are now performing at an OECD average, I will be the first person to admit that, although we have seen an improvement in the higher level skills of our more able and talented children, we do not perform at an OECD average with regard to those level 6 and level 5 scores.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Even within the UK, really, we are quite far behind.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, I think that's where we really need to push on. That's one of the reasons why we have introduced a more able and talented budget to support that, and our Seren programme, which is delivering fantastic results post-16. That's why we're introducing the principles of Seren earlier into children's careers, bringing it down from year 9 upwards, to be able to drive improvements. So, I think that that's the area that we are particularly keen to work on: making sure that more of our children perform at the OECD average at level 5 and level 6. Clearly, we've got more work to do on reading. We are working with southern Ireland, who have consistently done well with reading scores, to look to see what lessons we can learn to press on with there with reading.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. My final question on this. You recognise it as a priority, particularly for boys. Does that mean that the focus will then drift slightly from maths, where there has been some success; and drift from science, where the encouragement of more people to take GCSE science has reduced the number of high-level passes?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "First, we have to have a system that is capable of doing all of those of things at the same time. We can't accept a system that says, 'Well, we can do a bit over here, but that means we have to—.' We have to have a system, Suzy, that can drive improvements at all levels. That's my expectation.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "The balloon needs to be bigger not just squeezing it at one end.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely, yes. That's my expectation of this system. You have to deliver across all of these. We have seen some progress. As I've said, it's far from perfect, and we've got more work to do, but we have to deliver across all three domains, as we did last time. And I'm not going to make any apologies for changing the performance indicators around science. It was a travesty that there were children who never had the opportunity to sit a science GCSE. We don't have to make assumptions about the nature of many, many, many of those children. We have seen a significant increase in the number of children who are having the opportunity to sit GCSE science and who are passing GCSE science. So, I'm not going to make any apologies about that. One of the reasons that I suspect we have ended up with poor science scores is because of the previous policy around science entries and science qualifications. Again, one of the reasons that we have changed it isn't just solely because we need to do better in PISA, but I think that by changing it, we will see an impact on PISA.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you for that.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The final set of questions is from Siân Gwenllian.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I just want to discuss an issue that I know is important to you, namely closing the attainment gap between pupils who are eligible for free school meals and those who are not eligible for free school meals. Unfortunately, the problem persists, doesn't it?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. We are not where we need to be in terms of the performance, not only of our children on free school meals, but the performance of our looked-after children, and the performance of some children from some ethnic minority groups. So, we will continue to look to support those learners in a variety of ways, again looking to amend our practice on the basis of evidence that is given to us from our experts who are there to advise us. There is clearly more that we need to do. There has been some progress in some areas, but it is not where I would want it to be.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But, this is despite the fact that there is £475 million that has been invested in the pupil development grant, for this exact purpose of closing the attainment gap. But, the problem persists, and in some places, it's deteriorating.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think that, as I said, I am not shying away from any assumption or declaration that we need to do better. But, I do think that we need to acknowledge where progress has been made. If we go back to look at what PISA has said about our performance, the PISA results show that pupils in Wales are relatively more able to overcome the disadvantage of their background than is the average in OECD countries. So, our children are doing better in that, and that gives me encouragement. That's not me saying that; that's there. If we look at pupils who are eligible for free school meals, they do score below their better-off counterparts in PISA by some 34 points. The gap in England is 40 points. So, again, that gap is smaller here in Wales. If we look at basic levels of qualifications, back in—. It's difficult to make comparisons because of all the reasons we have talked about, but if we look back to 2006 and we look at the very basic level of qualifications, which is a level 1 qualification, we have seen a jump from 9.4 per cent of children in 2006 achieving a level 1 qualification to over 18 per cent. So, there is progress. There is evidence that the resources that we are spending are making a difference. But, clearly, we are not where we would want to be. That's why we will continue to focus those resources on those children, where we need it. But, we need to do that earlier. Sticking plasters in years 10 and 11 aren't going to cut it. We need to get this right for those children, the moment that they come into a nursery and the moment that they start their formal education at the age of 5. That's how we are going to make the difference. Providing catch-up, of course, we need to do for those kids; we can't throw those year 10s and year 11s to the wind. We have to support those children. But, we will see real improvement when we get in there earlier.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But I'm sure that that is a disappointment to you, because it has been a personal priority for you as well. In terms of minority ethnic learners, while there are some groups within that category who are achieving, there is underachievement happening here as well, isn't there? It's not consistent across the minority ethnic group. Is that something that you will be focusing upon?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, and that's why we have committed to maintaining a ring-fenced grant to local authorities of some £10 million, to support education of our minority ethnic children. But, again, you are right, you are absolutely right, Siân. We need a much more sophisticated conversation about what is really going on in attainment across minority ethnic groups so that we can best target that resource and have a conversation about what the differences are. You are absolutely correct: there is a real mixed picture. If we look at black Welsh girls entitled to free school meals, they perform almost at the national average for all children—not FSM children; the national average for all children. Black Welsh boys don't, but neither do white Welsh boys. So, there is a really complex picture here, and I really welcome a debate about acknowledging the various levels of performance of BAME children, and where the gaps in performance lie. You are quite right: it is a complex picture in the system. I'm committed to continuing to support educational opportunities, and that's why have ring-fenced the minority ethnic achievement grant. There are some interesting data there. Some children are doing very, very well; others, we need to concentrate on.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Siân, this will need to be the last question, I'm afraid.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "This is going to have to be the last question.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "The last question.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Fine. In terms of looked-after children, which is one of the groups where attainment isn't where we would like it to be, there was some improvement in 2016 at key stage 4, but it has been disappointing. Do we know what's been happening in 2019?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "The 2019 data will be published next month, and there has been significant activity. You are right: in recent years, the data have been poor and not where we would want it to be. That's why we have had a reformed approach to PDG LAC; the employment of PDG LAC co-ordinators across the regions. We've identified new resource in the new financial year to test new approaches, so, for instance, virtual school approaches, where we know, in other systems, that has worked. But, we expect the next set of data around the performance of this particular group of learners in March.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, and you hope to see progress.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't want to speculate, but I hope so.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. We have come to the end of our time, so can I thank you, Minister, and your official for attending this morning? We have had a wide-ranging and very detailed discussion that will be very useful for the committee. As usual, you will be sent a transcript following the meeting to check for accuracy, but thank you again, both of you, for your attendance this morning. Diolch yn fawr. Okay. Item 3 is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from ERW providing additional information following the evidence session on 16 January. Paper to note 2 is a letter from Central South Consortium, similarly providing additional information following the evidence session. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Noah's Ark Children's Hospital for Wales regarding children's rights in Wales, following up on some additional information there. Paper to note 4 is a letter from Qualifications Wales, providing additional information following the annual report scrutiny session in January. Item 4, then. Can I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting? Are Members content? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_6 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"55"
]
],
"topic": "Discussions on the amendments related to the duty to promote public awareness"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"56",
"115"
]
],
"topic": "Discussions on the amendments related to the duty to report on the effect of the legislation"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"116",
"135"
]
],
"topic": "Discussions on the amendments related to the regulation-making powers in the Bill"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"135",
"151"
]
],
"topic": "Discussions on the amendments related to the duty to ensure sufficient funding"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"152",
"176"
]
],
"topic": "Discussions on the amendments related to the commencement"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "This was a Children, Young People and Education Committee, and the purpose of the meeting is to undertake stage 2 proceedings on the Children (Abolition of Defense of Reasonable Punishment) Bill. This meeting followed a certain order to dispose of all amendments. It went through amendments in group 1 that related to the duty to promote public awareness, amendments in group 2 that related to the duty to report on the effect of the legislation, amendments in group 3 that related to the regulation-making powers in the Bill, amendments in group 4 that related to the duty to ensure sufficient funding, and finally amendments in group 5 that related to commencement. At the end of each section, they took a vote to decide whether certain amendments should be rejected or accepted.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "There was a debate of whether amendment 1 and 4, and 1A to 1E should be accepted or rejected. The Deputy Minister firstly expressed her opinions. She was in favor of amendments 1 and 4, but against 1A to 1E, mainly because she thought that level of details were not necessarily on the face of the Bill. However, Janet Finch-Saunders thought the Deputy Minister's amendment lacked a number of key points that the committee were actually keen to address at stage 1 and explained one by one from 1A to 1E why those amendments were important. Afterwards, there was a short debate about whether to accept those amendments from Suzy Davies, Dawn Bowden, Hefin David and Sian Gwenllian. Suzy Davies supported amendment 1A to 1E, while others all against them. At last, they took a vote and it ended up with rejecting amendment 1A to 1E and agreeing with amendment 1.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about amendments in group 1 that related to the duty to promote public awareness?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"55"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Her amendments 1 and 4 would place a duty on Welsh Ministers to provide information and increase awareness about the change in the law. She had already made a commitment to a high-intensity awareness-raising campaign over about six years from Royal Assent if the Bill passed. She thought amendments 1A to 1E which relate to the duty to raise awareness were not necessary. In specific, amendment 1A was open-ended on promoting public awareness. All the raised points would be considered by another group, but she thought the level of the detail on the face of the Bill was not needed, and same reasons for amendment 1B and 1D. As for the amendment 1C which was about how to raise concerns, the Deputy Minister thought the safeguarding was everybody's business. In conclusion, she asked for the support of members for amendments 1 and 4, and asked to reject amendments 1A to 1E, as those were unnecessary provisions in terms of what the awareness-raising duty needed to achieve.",
"query": "How did the Deputy Minister speak to her amendments in group 1 that related to the duty to promote public awareness?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"1"
],
[
"35",
"43"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "While it was imperative that the public were made aware of this controversial change in the law, she thought the Deputy Minister's amendment lacked a number of key points that the committee were actually keen to address at stage 1. For example, Amendment 1A changed amendment 1 to include the promotion of understanding changes to the law. Amendment 1B stated that there should be details about the support available to parents to use alternatives to physical punishment when discipline their children, which she thought was very important to parents. Amendment 1C explained that the Welsh Government should ensure clear advice was provided on what people could do if they had seen a child being physically assaulted, and this could help raise public awareness of how they could report and in what situations they could report.",
"query": "What did Janet Finch-Saunders say for amendments 1A to 1E when discussing the amendments in group 1 that related to the duty to promote public awareness?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"3",
"19"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Deputy Minister firstly expressed her opinions. She thought amendment 2C would require Welsh Ministers to prepare and lay before the Assembly a report on the effect of their promotion of public awareness before section 1 was commenced, and she thought this was unnecessary and was in conflict with what she thought was a priority for the implementation of this Bill. She also thought this amendment was not required because they were preparing to assess the effectiveness of the awareness raising. Then Janet Finch-Saunder expressed her opinion, and spoke to amendments 2C excluding 2D to 2K. After this, Suzy Davies proposed several opinions against the Deputy Minister. In specific, Suzy Davies did not think the amendment should affect the commencement date at all, to respond to the comments the Deputy Minister made for amendment 2C. At last, they took a vote and ended up with losing 2C - 2K, and accepting amendment 2.",
"query": "Summarize their discussions on the amendments related to the duty to report on the effect of the legislation.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"56",
"115"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Deputy Minister had provided assurance that she agreed with the importance placed on the post-implementation review, and made a commitment to bring forward a Government amendment to put a duty to undertake a post-implementation review on the face of the Bill. Amendment 2C would require Welsh Minister to prepare and lay before the Assembly a report on the effect of their promotion of public awareness before section 1 is commenced, and the Deputy Minister thought this amendment was unnecessary and was in conflict with what she thought was a priority for the implementation of this Bill. The Deputy Minister did not want to support amendments 2A, 2C and 2E to 2K, because these amendments made little difference in terms of practical effect to what they had in the Bill already. In conclusion, she would ask members to reject the non-Government amendments and agree to amendments 2 and 5.",
"query": "How did the Deputy Minister speak to her amendments in group 2 that relate to the duty to report on the effect of the legislation?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"57",
"57"
],
[
"81",
"81"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Janet Finch-Saunders spoke to amendments 2C, excluding 2D, to 2K, which related to the Deputy Minister's amendment 2 on preparing a published report on the effect of abolishing the defense of reasonable punishment. Amendments 2E to 2K outlined what they would expect to be within the report. Amendment 2C requested that the Welsh Government prepared a report on the awareness-raising campaign and laid it before the Assembly before section 1 commenced. It was important that they were fully apprised of the awareness-raising campaign's impact, which was elaborated under amendment 2D.",
"query": "Summarize Janet-Finch-Saunders' opinion on amendments in group 2 that relate to the duty to report on the effect of the legislation.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"59",
"59"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Deputy Minister proposed that she encouraged members to reject amendment 3A. She said she was not seeking to add any new powers to the Bill. Amendment 3 would simply add the existing power back onto the face of the Bill, where amendments 7 and 8 remove it, and amendment 6 would bring the power into force the day after Royal Assent. Then Suzy Davies said that amendment 3A was a holding position, and they would return this to the Deputy Minister in stage 3. Suzy thought this was an area where it might be valuable to discuss quite what kind of powers they were looking for, because Suzy Davies thought the Deputy Minister might need something that was beyond transitional, transitory and saving. At last, they took a vote for this and ended up with rejecting amendment 3A, and agreeing on amendment 3.",
"query": "Summarize their discussions on the amendments in group 3 that relate to the regulation-making powers in the Bill.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"116",
"135"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "As a consequence of proposing to remove the power for a Welsh Minister to make an order for commencement, the power to make transitory, transitional or saving provisions in connection with section 1 of the Bill coming into force would also be removed. Amendment 2 would add the existing power back onto the face of the Bill where amendments 7 and 8 removed it, and amendment 6 would bring the power into force the day after Royal Assent. These amendments were technical in nature and while she acknowledged that the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee raised the issue of what procedure should be applied, their report did not call for any change to no procedure being applied. The absence of an Assembly procedure did not mean that Ministers' decisions in relation to transitional powers cannot be scrutinized by the Assembly. In conclusion, she encouraged members to reject amendment 3A.",
"query": "How did Deputy Minister speak to her amendments and the other amendments in group 3, which relates to the regulation-making powers in the Bill?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"117",
"117"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Suzy Davies thought that one person's technical issue was another person's essential part of the legislative procedure and a keen element in scrutiny. Suzy Davies was glad that amendment 8 had removed an order provision. Suzy Davies thought amendment 3A was something of a probing amendment. The amendment 3 seek to give a familiar range of powers in connection with the coming into force of section 1, but it was not a separate commencement power. Amendment 3A was a holding position, which they would return this in Stage 3, because Suzy Davies thought this was an area where this might be valuable to discuss quite what kind of powers were required. Suzy Davies thought there might be something that was beyond transitional, transitory and saving.",
"query": "How did Suzy Davies say about amendment 3A when discussing the amendments in group 3 which relates to the regulation-making powers in the Bill?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"119",
"119"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "This discussion started with Janet Finch-Saunders and Janet Finch-Saunders spoke to both amendments in this group. She said the reason she wanted these two amendments be there because she genuinely did not believe that the Deputy Minister had envisioned what or even estimated the likely cost to be borne by the organizations, and certainly their local authorities and health boards and impact of the Bill was going to have. Then the Deputy Minister responded to this. She said they had done a thorough and extremely diligent job of considering the potential impacts of the Bill before introduction. She thought all the evidence had shown that they did not anticipate that there would be a huge increase of a demand for funding, so she encouraged members to reject these amendments, which she thought were not necessary. At last, they took a vote on amendments 11 and 12, and ended up with rejecting amendments 11 and 12, and agreeing with amendment 4 and 5.",
"query": "Summarize their discussions on amendment 11 and 12 that relate to the duty to ensure sufficient funding.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"135",
"146"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Janet Finch-Saunders said that there were ongoing concerns about the potential costs for Welsh devolved authorities and the lack of quantifiable costs within the regulatory impact assessment. While amendment 11 referred to costs borne by local authorities and health boards, Janet Finch-Saunders had noted that amendment 12 took this further by including other devolved authorities that were not funded by Welsh Government. Janet Finch-Saunders wanted these amendments because she genuinely did not believe that they had even envisioned what or even estimated the likely cost to be borne by the organizations, and certainly their local authorities and health boards, and the impact the Bill was going to have.",
"query": "Summarize Janet Finch-Saunders opinions on amendments 11 and 12 that relate to the duty to ensure sufficient funding.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"136",
"136"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Deputy Minister understood that the impact of this Bill on public services was concerned; however, she said that they had done a thorough and extremely diligent job of considering the potential impacts of the Bill before introduction. She cited several people's sentences, to demonstrate that the Bill was removing a defense to an offence of common assault, which had formed part of the common law of England and Wales for a very long time. This was not a completely new area of costly activity for any of them. The Deputy Minister thought all the evidence had shown that they did not anticipate that there would be a huge increase of a demand for funding, so she encouraged members to reject these amendments, which she thought were not necessary.",
"query": "How did the Deputy Minister respond to amendments 11 and 12 that relate to the duty to ensure sufficient funding?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"138",
"138"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask if there are any declarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill: Stage 2 proceedings. I'm pleased to welcome Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services; Karen Cornish, deputy director, children and families division at Welsh Government; and Emma Gammon, lawyer for Welsh Government. Thank you for attending this morning and welcome to the committee. I'm just going to run through the procedures that we're going to follow now. As I said, the purpose of the meeting is to undertake Stage 2 proceedings on the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill. For these proceedings, Members should have copies of the marshalled list of amendments, the groupings of the amendments for debate and the voting order for the amendments. The marshalled list of amendments is the list of all amendments tabled, marshalled into the order in which the sections appear in the Bill. The order in which we consider amendments will be the default order—that is, sections 1 to 3 and the long title. You will see from the groupings list that amendments have been grouped to facilitate debate. However, the order in which they're called and moved for decision is dictated by the marshalled list. Members will, therefore, need to follow the two papers, although I will advise Members when I call them whether they're being called to speak in the debate or to move their amendments for a decision. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. Members who wish to speak in a particular group should indicate to me in the usual way. I will call the Deputy Minister to speak on each group. For the record, in accordance with the convention agreed by the Business Committee, as Chair I will move amendments in the name of the Deputy Minister. For expediency, I will assume that the Deputy Minister wishes me to move all of her amendments, and I will do so at the appropriate place in the marshalled list. Deputy Minister, if you do not want a particular amendment to be moved, please indicate to me at the relevant point in proceedings. In line with our usual practice, legal advisers to the committee and the Deputy Minister are not expected to provide advice on the record. If Members wish to seek legal advice during proceedings, please do so by passing a note to the legal adviser and, if necessary, we can adjourn. My intention is to try to dispose of all amendments during today's meeting. I will call a short break in proceedings at an appropriate time, if necessary. Okay, thank you. So, we will proceed, then, to group 1, which is the duty to promote public awareness. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 1 in the name of the Deputy Minister. I move amendment 1 in the Deputy Minister's name and call on the Deputy Minister to speak to her amendment and the other amendments in this group.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Chair. My amendments 1 and 4 will place a duty on Welsh Ministers to provide information and increase awareness about the change in the law to ensure that the public are made aware of how the law will change as a result of the defence of reasonable punishment being abolished and that physical punishment would be prohibited once the Act commences. I tabled these amendments in response to this committee's recommendation—this was a recommendation from this committee in the Stage 1 report, so I have responded to that. I've already made a commitment to a high-intensity awareness-raising campaign over approximately six years from Royal Assent, should the Bill be passed. I've considered amendments 1A to 1E, which have been tabled by Janet Finch-Saunders, and which relate to the duty to raise awareness. Amendment 1A introduces a reference to public understanding. We don't think, actually, that this adds anything to the Government amendment, which already mentions awareness. It makes the awareness-raising duty open-ended with no time limit, which is not necessary. By commencement, messaging around the change in the law will be embedded. The awareness-raising campaign will continue for a number of years. Therefore, an ongoing duty referring specifically to the law change would not be required. I understand, of course, that the awareness-raising campaign needs to be comprehensive, well planned and to reach out to all those people and all those communities who need to be aware of the law change, and understand how to respond to it. But I don't think it's helpful or necessary to highlight specific groups, such as visitors to Wales, on the face of the Bill—that's the approach taken in amendment 1E—as it risks placing too much emphasis on certain groups at the expense of others. In relation to children, the committee will know that I'm fully committed to children’s rights, and that Welsh Ministers are already under a duty to have due regard to the rights of children whenever they exercise their functions. An additional due regard requirement, such as the one set out in amendment 1D, relating specifically to the need to promote awareness among children is not needed. This would be part and parcel of the Welsh Government approach to putting children’s rights at the heart of our policy making. Similarly, I don't think it's necessary for the Bill to set out specifically the topics that need to be covered in the awareness-raising campaign, as is suggested in amendments 1B and 1C. That level of detail, I don't think, is for the face of the Bill. Information required about parenting support will be considered by the parenting expert group, under the auspices of the Bill’s strategic implementation group, working with my officials and the expert stakeholder group on the awareness-raising campaign. And, really, their thinking should not be constrained in any way by specifications on the face of the Bill. I think we always need to bear in mind that what the Bill does is remove a defence to an existing criminal offence; it does not create a new offence. And in this context, it doesn't make sense for this Bill to contain a provision requiring the provision of information about how a person may raise concerns if it appears to them that a child is being physically punished. As I set out in my letter to this committee responding to recommendation 15 on this point, safeguarding is everyone’s business, and, as now, the public have a role in highlighting to relevant services if they are concerned about a child. I'm asking for the support of Members for amendments 1 and 4, and I ask Members to reject amendments 1A to 1E because this would place unnecessary provisions on the face of the Bill.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Deputy Minister. Are there other Members who wish to speak? Janet Finch-Saunders.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. I wish to speak to amendments 1A to 1E, which relate to the Deputy Minister's amendment on the duty to promote public awareness. While we believe it is absolutely imperative that the public are made aware of this controversial change in the law, the Deputy Minister's amendment lacks a number of key points that the committee were actually keen to address at Stage 1. An important thread runs throughout each and every amendment that I've tabled within this group—that of a sustained awareness campaign, which not only stretches beyond the implementation of the Bill, but serves as a duty for future administrations. Amendment 1A: primarily, amendment 1A changes amendment 1 to include the promotion of understanding changes to the law. I don't think it's enough for the Welsh Government to say that the public should be made aware of the coming into force of section 1 and that a public awareness campaign needs to be sustained until the Welsh Government's objectives have been achieved. Despite the fact that it is intended to change behaviour, the consequences of this law are far greater than that of organ donation or prohibiting smoking indoors. Instead of an opt-out system or a civil offence, this law will remove a defence for parents, information on which could be there on their records for the rest of their lives, potentially separate parents, and could affect employment chances. As such, whilst we agree with the necessity of the awareness campaign, it is important too that the Welsh Government take stock and ensures that parents are not penalised due to a weak awareness campaign. The witnesses we heard before this committee also noted the necessity of ensuring that the public understands—",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Janet, Dawn is asking if you'll take an intervention.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "I just wanted to know—could you give us examples of any other piece of legislation where there's been indefinite public awareness campaigns once it's been passed?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "There's a lot of legislation. The first Assembly term when I was here—",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, what I'm asking—",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm trying to respond—",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "What I'm asking for is: can you give us specific examples of where there have been indefinite public awareness campaigns running indefinitely past the enactment of a piece of legislation?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "The very first term that I was an Assembly Member, we passed 25 pieces of separate legislation. Even today, as I sit here, the public are not aware of many of those pieces of legislation. This particular piece of legislation will have a profound effect on the parenting of children in Wales. So, therefore, I think there is a necessity for both children and parents to become involved, and I shall speak now—",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "With respect, Chair, that's not the question I asked.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "—to my amendments.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "I can call you in the debate, if you'd like to make a more substantive contribution on this. Yes.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "The witnesses who we heard from before this committee also noted the necessity of ensuring that the public understands the implications. And that's what we're talking about here, Members—the implications of removing this defence. Strikingly, the Office of Police and Crime Commissioner for Gwent stated the following: 'the potential for public resistance to the Bill through misunderstanding or confusion over it implications may pose the largest barrier to its implementation.' If you are intent on removing the defence of reasonable punishment, it is therefore not unreasonable to ensure that law-abiding parents fully understand the ramifications of this Bill. Additionally, the committee found that while the current Welsh Government's intention to deliver a public awareness campaign was beyond doubt, future Governments may have less of a commitment. This places further weight on the fact that the Welsh Government should be under a duty to promote awareness and understanding of the Bill beyond its commencement. Furthermore, the Children (Equal Protection from Assault) (Scotland) Bill quite clearly notes that, under section 2, the Scottish Ministers must take such steps as they consider appropriate to promote public awareness and understanding about the effect of section 1 on the abolition for the defence of reasonable punishment. Therefore, I would be grateful if the Deputy Minister can respond as to the reasons why the Welsh Government has deviated from this course of action in their amendment. [Interruption.] Should our amendment be agreed—",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Are you taking an intervention?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "No. I'd rather crack on, to be honest.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I can call you in the debate, Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Should our amendment to be agreed, we also request that a printing change be made to ensure that the new heading reflects promoting awareness of the changes to the law made by section 1. Amendment 1B: amendment 1B is in line with the committee's recommendation 9, which stated that, as part of a public awareness campaign, there should be details about the support available to parents to use alternatives to physical punishment when disciplining their children. During evidence at Stage 1, the witnesses we saw before the committee raised serious concerns about harder-to-reach groups who needed to be made aware of removing the defence. For example, Children in Wales, Action for Children and Play Wales stated that some families and communities may be harder to reach with information and support. Welsh Government needs to make sure that they receive the information they need. Now, while the Deputy Minister states that she would work hard to ensure that harder-to-reach groups receive this information, a duty to provide information on alternatives to physical punishment would ensure that future Welsh Governments would maintain a successful awareness-raising campaign. I note the Deputy Minister accepted the recommendation, through our amendment, but this does not explicitly include a duty to provide details about support for parents. As will be expanded upon later, the Deputy Minister has relied upon the 'Parenting: Give it Time' campaign to be delivered alongside awareness raising. However, this is only an online resource and she must be clear about what other avenues will be available to parents who do not have access to the internet or are part of harder-to-reach groups. Amendment 1C: amendment 1C supports the committee's recommendation 15 that explains that the Welsh Government should ensure clear advice is provided on what people can do if they have seen or learned of a child being physically assaulted. We urged, at Stage 1, that although many professionals were already under a duty to report concerns about physical punishment, regardless of the Bill, other witnesses raised concerns that it could create the potential for claims of abuse that are unfounded. In particular, some were worried that children, who may not realise the implications of reporting, could make allegations that are actually untrue. While we would expect the awareness-raising campaign to include the consequences of false accusations, this could also be reflected among adults, if the public are not sufficiently made aware of how they can report and in what situations they can report a case of assault.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I've got several speakers. I've got Suzy Davies first, then Dawn Bowden.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you Minister, and thank you, Janet, for that. I think it's worth just pointing out at this stage that the majority of the amendments that are being made and articulated by Janet there are based on committee recommendations, and those recommendations were made after taking evidence from the public at large, but also you as well. So, that suggests that, at that stage, we weren't reassured by the offer that you were making because we felt the need to put these recommendations into our report. Now, I recognise that you've moved some way on some of these amendments, and we'll been talking about that through the course of the debates on other groups. But the one thing to bear in mind here is this is legislation, now—that means that this is the instrument of the Assembly, not of Government, and if this Assembly feels that the face of the Bill is unclear on the minimum requirements of a public awareness campaign, then we have the right to suggest the things that we would like to see in that public awareness-raising campaign. The list that Janet has given is a minimum. The reason these have been tabled individually and independently is that some may be acceptable where others may not be, so it will be disappointing to hear that you're rejecting them all, and the reason they need to go on the face of the Bill is that, if you are going to introduce specifics via regulation, at the moment we have no reassurance about how you're going to do that—about what input the Assembly, on behalf of our constituents, could have in designing that public awareness-raising campaign. Unless you accept some amendments in other groups, that is the position with this Bill: the influence of the Assembly will be zero over the content of an awareness-raising campaign. In terms of it being non-time limited, I think the amendment has been tabled in the way it has not to oblige you to an everlasting, never-ending campaign of awareness raising. But if you bear in mind that, seven years after the introduction of this Bill, there's going to be some reporting on the effectiveness of the Bill, what is the point of doing that if you don't then have an obligation, should the reports require it to be necessary, to continue promoting the changes in the law? I accept that that can't go on for centuries, but to actually limit it to two years on an issue that is so sensitive, and which has a reach beyond our boundaries, I think is genuinely a mistake. Finally, you mention that safeguarding is everyone's business. I think that's true, but I think Janet Finch-Saunders was right to say that members of the public, ordinary individuals, not professionals, will need assurance that they're doing the right thing. The amendment as listed is not even there to encourage people to do that, although that can be read in that way, but it is to help them be certain that they are doing the right thing. If this is going to be up to the individual, as you've said, and the committee itself wasn't reassured that individuals would know what to do, perhaps I can ask you to consider at Stage 3, if you're going to reject this amendment, how you can reassure members of the public that, if they are going to intervene on the back of this law, they're making things better, not worse.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Suzy. Dawn.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "My comments, really, relate to ongoing awareness-raising campaigns, which I think all of us would want to see, and would appreciate in any changes in legislation. My point, really, is that we have a plethora of legislation that this Assembly has passed in the last 20 years, and I'm not aware of any legislation where, on the face of the Bill we have ongoing awareness-raising campaigns on an indefinite basis. It seems to me that, for some reason, you seem to be wanting to take a completely different approach to this piece of legislation. From what the Deputy Minister is saying—and perhaps I will get some clarity on this—there will be an amendment to the legislation that will say that we have an awareness campaign. That awareness campaign can be the subject of consultation with interested parties in terms of what needs to be included in it. It could also, I assume, Deputy Minister, be an awareness campaign that can be written into a set of guidance for future use. But the point I'm trying to make is that I don't believe that any piece of legislation requires ongoing and indefinite awareness-raising campaigns, and particularly in relation to visitors to Wales. Again, we have other pieces of legislation in Wales that are not applicable in the other parts of the UK. I am not aware that there is a necessity for awareness-raising campaigns with visitors coming into Wales on the raft of the other pieces of legislation that we have that they don't. And similarly, when we go to visit countries that have different legislation, we don't necessarily know what legislation we're going into when we visit that country—you just go there and you accept that you go to a different country and you abide by their laws. So, my key point, Chair, is just the necessity of an ongoing, endless awareness campaign being written onto the face of the Bill.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Dawn. Hefin.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "My comments follow logically from Dawn Bowden's comments, particularly in relation to amendments 1D and 1E. What you would be doing is that this Senedd, if this was on the face of the Bill, the duty on Ministers, would be putting the duty on Ministers in law beyond the life of the fifth Senedd, into the next Senedd term, and putting that duty on those newly elected Ministers after that, which, in principle, would be against the principles of binding—",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Hefin, are you taking an intervention from Suzy?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, happy to.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "When you've finished your point.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm happy to take it now, because I was going to sum up by agreeing with the point you made, actually.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I'd love that. You referred to this potentially binding Ministers in future Assemblies; at the moment, we've got an implementation period and a five-year reporting period that takes any reporting on this Act into the Assembly after next. I'm wondering if you're going to have any comments on that when we come to the amendment to change that later on.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, when we get to that amendment, I'll make comments if I feel it necessary. But at this point in time, we're talking about amendments 1D and 1E, and particularly in relation to 1D and 1E it just isn't necessary, given the fact that—I won't call it a concession, because I think you made a reasonable point about the Minister making a statement at Stage 3, and I think Dawn Bowden actually supported that as well. That, therefore, makes those amendments unnecessary. Given that, in these circumstances, it is unnecessary to bind Ministers in future Parliaments. And that's my key point, really, which is why I wouldn't vote for those two amendments.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. I just want to speak against amendment 1A and also amendment 1B. I don't believe that there is a need for an indefinite campaign, as is outlined in 1A. I agree entirely that there is a need for a campaign during the period of change, and therefore I'm very glad to see that the Government has brought forward amendment 1, and I do hope that there will be a real push during the period of change. In terms of amendment 1B, I do have sympathy with what is being said here, but I believe that any kind of information or campaign in terms of enabling parents to learn about alternatives to physical punishment should be the subject of continual far-reaching work by the Government, through various programmes, and it should not be an addition on the face of this Bill, which deals with a small change to the common law. And then, on 1D also, if I may—I don't agree with this either. Again, I believe that there is a need to promote awareness amongst children, but that should happen through the children's rights convention, as part of a broader programme to promote children's rights.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Siân. I call on the Deputy Minister to speak, then.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you all very much for your contributions to the debate and your comments on these amendments today. I just want to re-emphasise that it is as a result of the recommendation from this committee that we are putting this duty to have the awareness campaign on the face of the Bill, and I absolutely recognise the crucial role awareness raising has to play in supporting the implementation of the Bill. I'm very grateful for and appreciate the committee's interest and the work that you've done in this area of work. But I do think that these amendments are unnecessary. If we go through them, amendment 1A is really open-ended on promoting public awareness. We're committed to a high-intensity awareness over six years from Royal Assent, and there is an expert stakeholder group supporting us with the development of the awareness campaign. All the points that you've been making will be being considered by that group. I think the level of detail on the face of the Bill is not needed.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Would you just take an intervention on that just to help me understand? A two-year awareness-raising campaign—how have you concluded that—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Six-year.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I thought it was two years before section 1 comes into force.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We've got six years from Royal Assent.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, so it is going to continue beyond section 1 coming into force—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Oh yes, it's going to continue.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "That's very helpful.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Definitely, yes. So, I don't think that's needed, amendment 1A. Amendment 1B, about support available to parents and how to access it—again, this level of detail is not required on the face of the Bill. I just want to emphasise we have got this expert implementation group, who are working on all aspects of this Bill, many of whom represent organisations who gave evidence to this committee. The Bill is a simple one, with a clear purpose. It aims to remove the defence of reasonable punishment. I think lots of these amendments are very helpful and interesting, but would be discussed and would be acted on in the normal pathway of planning and development, and they're not required on the face of the Bill. So, I'm not putting them down, I'm just saying that we don't need them to be there on the face of the Bill. And then amendment 1C—the information about how to raise concerns—I do repeat that safeguarding is everybody's business, and the same issues apply now as will after this defence has been removed. Amendment 1D—Ministers to have regard to the need to promote awareness among children—now, children's rights are absolutely enshrined in our policy making, and the entire Bill is about protecting the rights of children. So, it is unnecessary duplication. So, we hope that the Bill will remain focused. Again, in terms of visitors, the level of detail is simply not required on the face of the Bill. Our awareness-raising campaign will be comprehensive. And then to pick up a few of the other points that were raised, revisions to the impact assessments are being considered as part of my commitment to update the explanatory memorandum ahead of Stage 3. So, there will be more details on the regulatory impact assessment. The issue that was raised about the Scottish Bill, that it refers to 'understanding'—now, the Scottish Bill was not a Government Bill, it was a private Member's Bill, and our view is that nothing is added by adding the 'understanding'; 'awareness' is sufficient. So, basically, I think that the points made have been very useful, but I urge committee members to accept my amendments, but to reject those proposed by Janet Finch-Saunders, as they are unnecessary provisions in terms of what the awareness-raising duty needs to achieve.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Deputy Minister. Before disposing of amendment 1, we will deal with the amendments to that amendment. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 1A?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. The question is that amendment 1A be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we have an objection. I therefore take a vote by show of hands. The question is that amendment 1A be agreed. All those in favour, please raise your hands. All those against. There voted two in favour, four against. So, amendment 1A is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 1B?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 1B be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, I'll take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour of amendment 1B. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 1B is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 1C?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. The question is that amendment 1C be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay. All those in favour of amendment 1C, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 1C is not agreed. Janet, do you want to move amendment 1D?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. The question is that amendment 1D be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, as there's an objection, I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 1D, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 1D is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 1E?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. The question is that amendment 1E be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 1E, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 1E is not agreed. If amendment 1 is not agreed, amendment 2C and amendment 4 will fall. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 1?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I do.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Okay. I move amendment 1 in the name of the Deputy Minister. The question is that amendment 1 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we have an objection, so we'll take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour of amendment 1. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against, and amendment 1 is agreed. We'll move on now then to group 2, which relates to the duty to report on the effect of the legislation. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 2, in the name of the Deputy Minister. I move amendment 2 in the Deputy Minister's name, and call on the Deputy Minister to speak to her amendments, and the other amendments in this group.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. The amendments in this group are to do with the post-implementation review of the Bill, and I believe there was also a committee recommendation to this end from your committee, so you strongly influenced this amendment. It's clear from Members' contributions to this group and recommendations by the committee at Stage 1 that they share my commitment to the importance of post-implementation review of the effect of the abolition of the defence of reasonable punishment. I've already provided assurance that I agree with the importance placed on such a review, both in the explanatory memorandum and during Stage 1 scrutiny. I also made a commitment to bring forward a Government amendment to put a duty to undertake a post-implementation review on the face of the Bill. I have done this with amendment 2. Amendment 5 sets out that this provision will come into force the day after Royal Assent. As I said in my responses to the Stage 1 committee report, and as set out in the explanatory memorandum, the post-implementation review of this Bill will not be a single piece of work, but a continuous programme of work during the years following the commencement of section 1. Firstly, we will continue to conduct attitudinal surveys, which will be used to track changes in attitude towards the physical punishment of children and prevalence of parents reporting that they use physical punishment. The surveys will also be used to monitor the effectiveness of our awareness-raising campaign. Secondly, through a dedicated task and finish group, we are working with organisations to put in place arrangements to establish robust methods for capturing meaningful data relating to the Bill and to consider the possible impact on services. Turning to amendment 2C, this amendment would require Welsh Ministers to prepare and lay before the Assembly a report on the effect of their promotion of public awareness before section 1 is commenced. This amendment is unnecessary and is in conflict with what I think is a priority for the implementation of this Bill: that is, given certainty on the commencement date and in enabling us to work towards this with our partners and stakeholders. I also think this amendment is not required because, as I've already stated, we are preparing to assess the effectiveness of our awareness raising. In June, I shared the findings of a representative survey, which establishes a baseline on public awareness and opinion towards physical punishment of children and the proposed legislation. I shared this with the committee.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Deputy Minister. I open it up for discussion now, then. Janet Finch-Saunders.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. I speak to amendments 2C, excluding 2D, to 2K, which relate to the Deputy Minister's amendment 2 on preparing a published report on the effect of abolishing the defence of reasonable punishment. Again, I must stress the importance of getting this right due to the controversial and long-lasting effects of removing the defence of reasonable punishment. Amendments 2E to 2K outline what we would expect to be within this report, and we would wish to see a commitment from the Deputy Minister to ensure the National Assembly for Wales is fully apprised and able to scrutinise the result of this report. Amendment 2C requests that the Welsh Government prepare a report on the awareness-raising campaign and lays it before the Assembly before section 1 commences. As I have outlined under my amendments in group 1, the understanding of the public about the implications of the Bill cannot be sidelined. Although the Deputy Minister has repeated her commitment to a public awareness campaign, we, as the National Assembly for Wales, must be able to scrutinise its effectiveness before section 1 begins. As I noted under amendments 1B to 1E, there are specific groups of people who need to be evaluated on their understanding of the Bill's effect. I'm sure that the Deputy Minister will agree that the harder-to-reach groups are undoubtedly the most vulnerable to any negative impacts that the Bill will have because of the greater potential of a lack of awareness. It is, therefore, important for the Assembly to be able to determine whether the awareness-raising campaign has had a positive effect on these groups of people. As will also be elaborated under amendment 2D, it is extremely important that we, as the Parliament of Wales, are fully apprised of the awareness-raising campaign's impact. Before we implement what will be a criminal offence, it is vital that we ensure that those affected are not adversely impacted because of a poorly targeted awareness campaign. Therefore, I would be grateful if the Deputy Minister would commit to an independent evaluation of the awareness campaign's effects before section 1 commences.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Janet. Suzy Davies.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, first of all, can I just say thank you for your opening remarks about the possibility of perhaps doing some work around amendment 2B? I'll come to that a little bit later, if I may. I just want to begin by commenting briefly on what you said about why you'll be rejecting amendment 2C here. I actually don't think that this amendment should affect or jeopardise the commencement date in any way at all. It's an operational requirement to get this work done before the commencement date that's in the draft Bill at the moment. So, failing to meet that would be as a result of operations not going well, rather than anything intrinsic in the Bill, so I'm not sure I can accept your argument on that. And, on 2D—very pleased to hear that you'd be willing to introduce something about 'laying' rather than 'publishing' at Stage 3, but, in the spirit of recognising that this is the legislature, perhaps I could encourage you just to accept the amendment at this stage, because it doesn't make any difference. Your amendment is going to pass, and this amendment to it would be—I think the gesture there would be very much appreciated. I'll be speaking mainly to amendments 2A and 2B, but I want to begin, again, by thanking you for moving some way on this and considering amendments to the Bill on the issue of reporting, because I know you were keen to avoid amendments in the name of simplicity; you mentioned it earlier. But this is not a newid bychan, I'm afraid, Siân; the terms and the effect of this Bill are quite extensive, and it does need the reassurances, if you like, necessary to mitigate potentially disproportionate effects of this Bill on families where parents' actions had been lawful up until this point in statute. It does need statutory underpinning. So, I am grateful to you for accepting this duty. I know that you're sincere that you want this duty to report to show that the Bill is effective in stopping smacking as a punishment, and also that it is not as harmful to parents as perhaps some of us fear. But, if this were me bringing forward this Bill, I think I'd want to show the world that I was doing the right thing a lot sooner than you appear to wish to do. Amendment 2 means that the efficacy of the Bill will not formally be assessed until seven years after it has passed. There are Acts on the statute book that have lasted a lot less time than that. If you're relying on the two-year period before section 1 comes into operation to do much of the heavy lifting on the culture change, and I think that is what you're expecting—you know, showing a reduction in the incidence of physical punishment, reducing the number of, and indeed the likelihood of, parents putting themselves in the path of criminal liability once those two years are up—I really would have thought you'd want people to know sooner, or as soon as the first possible opportunity on that. Waiting five years, I think, will diminish the ability of you to prove the efficacy of those initial two years, and this is why I'm grateful to you for your offer, because there may be a way where we can overcome that. If the trend of culture change is continuing after year 3—so, basically, in the first year after section 1 comes into effect—that's great, but there's a possibility it's going to reverse. Again, I don't think I'd want to wait five years to find that out. For myself, I think one year would probably be enough, but I think three years is a reasonable compromise, as opposed to five years, for a reporting period. I think seven years is just way too long for a formal evaluation of a Bill's effectiveness. I can't see the reason for quite that length of time—I know you've talked about New Zealand—but neither can the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. I think that's worth pointing out. When they took the step of recommending this duty to evaluate and report, they also took the step of suggesting a three-year reporting period being more in keeping with other post-legislative scrutiny. That's something I think we perhaps need to bear in mind now, as we enter this period of the consolidation of law. Five/seven years is really something of an outlier, and while that might have been appropriate, perhaps, in New Zealand, I don't think that fits in with our timetables generally here in Wales, and, of course, there are other countries that have introduced this over a period of years, and I note that you haven't drawn on them in order to support your argument. So, can I urge Members and the Minister to consider the arguments behind these amendments? I don't think it's going to reassure anyone—you may want to intervene at this point, Hefin—that we not only won't hear in this Assembly, we won't hear in the next Assembly, about the formal evaluation of this, unless I follow—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I won't intervene; I'll speak.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Is that okay?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I'll make the point.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, I've got—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I'll take the intervention.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "No, he doesn't want to make an intervention—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I won't do an intervention; I'll speak.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "—he'll make a contribution.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, apologies—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Just to say—",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I'll wait.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, let me put the intervention—. I'll do it as an intervention, then. I just feel that—I take your point, and I was expecting it. The point I was making about 1D and 1E is they close down choices to Ministers in future Assemblies. An evaluative practice would actually open up those choices and give future Parliaments more options with regard to this Bill, so I think it's entirely consistent. I don't think the Minister, in putting in amendment 2, was trying to undermine my argument. Actually, I think she's being constructive by doing that, and I think amendment 2 is a practical amendment that's quite helpful, and its consequence will be to open up choices to future Parliaments, whereas my objection to 1D and 1E is they close those down.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, well, as I say, I think, actually, the Deputy Minister's offer of a three-year interim period might be part of a resolution to this. Because I'm not 100 per cent sure I accept your argument, either, because it closes it down for the interim period if we don't move on with the Deputy Minister's suggestion—which I'll talk about now, actually. Because I am tempted to accept your offer. It absolutely makes sense and it's clearly made with the best good faith here. But I need some clarity on what you would allow this Assembly to do in helping define the terms of that interim report. Because you've been very clear that you don't want to accept the things that Janet Finch-Saunders has been talking about in a final report, and yet I can tell you we want to hear about these things. So, if you're in a position where you can give a commitment at Stage 3 not only to introduce an interim report, but that you will consult with, perhaps, this committee—I'll leave it to you—on the contents of that interim report, what we would want to see tested, then I'll be minded not to move amendment 2B. If you can't give me that reassurance, then I'm going to move it anyway and we'll return to it at Stage 3, if you don't mind. Just a final point on this issue of reporting within three months rather than as soon as practicable, and I do take your point that there may be a misalignment with reporting periods from the organisations you hope to talk to. Again, at Stage 3, I'm happy if you want to make three months six months, or something like that, but 'as soon as practicable' is open ended, and what you think is practicable may be very different from what I or my constituents think is practicable. So, I don't want to stick with what is practicable; I would like you to put a date on this. If it's a case that you think six months is long enough for data gathering and reporting from third parties, I think that's fairly reasonable as well, but I'm not minded to allow you to just keep this open ended. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Suzy. Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I welcome adding to the Bill through amendment 2, and what you've said today also, that you're willing to provide an interim report and bring an amendment forward to allow that through the Bill, and to lay a report before the Assembly. I am interested in what Suzy is saying, and have a lot of sympathy with trying to tie it down to specific time periods, and not say 'when it will be practicable'. Therefore, I would encourage you not to move your amendments if you have the confirmation that you want to hear this morning from the Minister regarding these issues.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I would like to. Thanks.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Any other Members? No. Deputy Minister.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, just to start off on that point, I think your suggestion about how we consult and discuss, I think I'm very happy to accept that. So, I'm happy to discuss that with you, and with the committee, before the third Stage. So, I hope you will consider removing—.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "No, genuinely I am.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Right, thank you. Well, just to go on to cover some of the points that have been raised, on the issue of training now, I think Janet raised a number of points about training, and we do have an operations, procedures, processes and training task and finish group as part of our implementation work, and they are considering guidance and training requirements. There are many professional bodies represented on that group, many of whom I think have given evidence here today, and they've really got a chance to have their say. The officials are also looking at training as part of the revision of the explanatory memorandum at Stage 3, so there will be more information about training there. But we have this group looking at it, and it is very key. Generally, I think that all the contributions are very helpful, and I know they're meant in the spirit of trying to improve the legislation. I can't support amendments 2A, 2C, and amendments 2E to 2K, because these amendments make little difference in terms of practical effect to what we have in the Bill already, or they're covered by the Government amendments that I've moved. But I do hope the committee is reassured that we are committed to undertaking a very thorough, multifaceted review of the impact of the legislation that includes tracking public attitudes and considering impacts on public services. Now, tracking the public attitudes will be going along at regular points, so there's no question there of having to wait; we'll be having regular reporting of public attitudes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Would you take an intervention there, Deputy Minister? Thank you very much. Of course, I appreciate that you will not be supporting these amendments, but can you give us some indication of how many of the areas of interest to us you will be reporting on? So, even if this is not a statutory commitment, what exactly from our list, our wish list here, would you be prepared to include in your evaluation?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I would actually have thought all of them. All the areas you've raised are very relevant, I think. Obviously, this is not a statutory thing I'm saying, but—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "No, no, and this is not a—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but considering those points you've put forward, I think all of them have got a great deal of relevance. We will certainly be reporting to the group to consider any of the ideas that you've suggested and, in particular with the data collection and the monitoring task and finish group, which is about developing methods to collect data, we will be putting forward some of the suggestions that you've made on those issues. So, I don't see any problem with that at all.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, as I say, I can't support the amendments. I'm hopeful you may withdraw the two amendments—I think one of yours and it was one of Janet's, wasn't it—so that we could work together on those before the next stage. Because I am sympathetic to your views on these matters, and I think they do reflect some of the discussions in the committee as well. So, I'd be happy to work with you to bring forward the amendments at Stage 3. In line with the recommendations of the Finance Committee, further details of the costs associated with the post-implementation review will be provided in a revised regulatory impact assessment at Stage 3. So, I think at this point I would ask that Members reject the non-Government amendments and agree to my amendments 2 and 5, which will ultimately achieve the same policy aim without the need for unnecessary detail on the Bill, with the exception, obviously, of those two amendments, which I'm prepared to look at a way of moving forward on.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you, Deputy Minister. Before disposing of amendment 2, we will deal with the amendments to that amendment. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2C?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 2C be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour of amendment 2C, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2C is lost. Suzy, do you wish to move amendment 2A?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move amendment 2A, yes.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 2A be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 2A, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2A is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2D?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2E?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 2E be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 2E, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2E is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2F?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 2F be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so can I see all those in favour of amendment 2F? All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 2F is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2G?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 2G be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, can I see all those in favour of amendment 2G? All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 2G is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2H?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 2H be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so can I see all those in favour of amendment 2H? All those against? So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2H is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2I?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 2I be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay. Can I see all those in favour of amendment 2I? All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2I is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2J?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 2J be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. Can I see all those in favour of 2J? All those against? So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2J is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2K?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 2K be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I'll therefore take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour of amendment 2K? All those against? So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2K is not agreed. Suzy, do you wish to move amendment 2B?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "In view of the Deputy Minister's reassurances, I won't move this amendment today, but obviously I reserve the right to bring something back if we can't reach consensus. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Does any other Member wish to move amendment 2B? Okay, no. Thank you. We'll move on, then. If amendment 2 is not agreed, amendment 5 will fall. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 2?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I do.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. The question is that amendment 2 be agreed. Does any Member object? Amendment 2—",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Objection.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "You're objecting?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Right, we'll therefore take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 2, please show. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against, and amendment 2 is agreed. That takes us on to group 3, which relates to the regulation-making powers in the Bill. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 3 in the name of the Deputy Minister. I move amendment 3 in the Deputy Minister's name and call on the Deputy Minister to speak to her amendments and the other amendments in this group.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Chair. Members will note that I've brought forward an amendment to provide certainty on the date of commencement of the core provision in the Bill, which is obviously to abolish the defence of reasonable punishment. And that is going to be debated under group 5. So, we're obviously debating that after we deal with these particular technical issues—these are technical issues here, basically. As a consequence of proposing to remove the power for a Welsh Minister to make an Order for commencement, the power to make transitory, transitional or saving provisions in connection with section 1 of the Bill coming into force would also be removed. So, I'm not seeking here to add any new powers to the Bill; amendment 3 will simply add this existing power back onto the face of the Bill where amendments 7 and 8 remove it, and amendment 6 will bring the power into force the day after Royal Assent. In fact, removing the power for the Welsh Ministers to commence the provision in section 1 by Order means the statutory instrument will actually do less than originally intended. These amendments are technical in nature and while I acknowledge that the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee raised the issue of what procedure should be applied, their report did not call for any change to no procedure being applied. The absence of an Assembly procedure does not mean that Ministers' decisions in relation to transitional powers cannot be scrutinised by the Assembly. Any concerns about the Welsh Ministers' proposals could be put to me in the Senedd. This was a point made to CLAC and, as I say, their final conclusion was that no procedure is the appropriate procedure for such a power. For those reasons, I encourage Members to reject amendment 3A from Suzy.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Suzy Davies.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much. Well perhaps, Deputy Minister, I can begin by saying that one person's technical issue is another person's essential part of the legislative procedure and a keen element in scrutiny. But I thank you for noting the Assembly's observations on the ministerial powers granted in this Bill—this time by CLAC, as you say. Moving this—and I'm glad actually that amendment 8, I think it was, has removed an Order provision and we're moving into an area where at least statutory instruments do feature here. I have to say that amendment 3A is something of a probing amendment, and I'll explain why now. Your amendment 3 seeks to give a familiar range of powers in connection with the coming into force of section 1, but it's actually in a substantive part of section 1 itself now—it's not a separate commencement power. And, actually, I've been listening to the rest of this debate, and thinking that, if you're going to be introducing an awareness campaign and a report, the chances are you're going to need some regulatory powers to introduce some of the aspects of both those policy areas, I think. And I'm wondering whether the—what is it—transitory, transitional and saving provisions are actually enough powers for you under the course of this Bill. I'm wondering whether you want to consider actually amending this to give yourself the more usual unrestricted power to make regulations in order for you to get section 1 implemented, bearing in mind that it has now been amended from that original, very short and simple—or at least simple in terms of drafting—initial draft. As I say, in anticipation of you rejecting amendments in group 1 I tabled this, in order to make sure that an opportunity remains for the Assembly to bring anything you may wish to introduce under section 1, when it comes into effect, onto the floor of the Assembly. Because while I completely accept that you've acknowledged that statutory instrument is the process for introducing things from now on, it's still possible to do that without procedure, and so I have no idea whether you think what you introduce would be better suited to be introduced by a negative or affirmative procedure. Amendment 3A is a holding position, which we will return to you in Stage 3, because I think, again, this is an area where it might be valuable for us to discuss quite what kind of powers you're looking for, because I think you probably need something that's beyond transitional, transitory and saving.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Suzy, have you finished?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Are there any other Members who wish to speak on this group? No. Deputy Minister.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I thank Suzy for that input. We don't actually think it's necessary to have wider powers, but we will keep this under review and at Stage 3, I think that—. When I was looking at this, I was concerned to know what the transitory powers—what we would actually need to do at that stage, but I can understand that there may be links to other Bills in ways that we are not anticipating at the moment that would make it necessary to have those powers. So, basically, I don't think it is necessary to have wider powers, but I can assure you that we'll keep that in review coming up to Stage 3.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just ask a question on the back of that?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Will you take a brief intervention at the end, Minister?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Will you take the briefest intervention before your full stop?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I was going to end there, yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Right, okay, well, just before your full stop, would you just confirm that you're happy for us to discuss this before Stage 3?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, very happy. Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Before disposing of amendment 3, we will deal with the amendment to that amendment. Suzy, do you wish to move amendment 3A?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'll move it, yes.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 3A be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, I'll take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour of amendment 3A. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 3A is not agreed. If amendment 3 is not agreed, amendment 6 will fall. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 3?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I do.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 3 be agreed. Does any Member object? Amendment 3 is therefore agreed. The committee will now break for 10 minutes and reconvene at 11.05 a.m. Can I welcome Members back? We will move on to group 4, which relates to the duty to ensure sufficient funding. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 11 in the name of Janet Finch-Saunders. I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move amendment 11 and to speak to her amendments. Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. I speak to both amendments in this group. As I outlined under amendments 2I and 2J, there are ongoing concerns about the potential costs for Welsh devolved authorities and the lack of quantifiable costs within the regulatory impact assessment. Now, it was absolutely clear from evidence that we received in this committee that unknown costs would be challenging and potentially problematic. As I have mentioned previously, these concerns would doubtless be most keenly felt in our hard-pressed social services. Furthermore, the Welsh Local Government Association stated that there must be a commitment that whatever the costs are, those costs are met, because it is legislation that is being led by the National Assembly for Wales. Now, during evidence, the Deputy Minister, when asked about the reliance on a limited number of reporting of cases likely to happen and the potential for a degree of unknown costs stated: 'we are doing our very best to prepare to cover all eventualities that we can anticipate.' But you couldn't commit to a broad figure, instead telling us that: 'we have to rely on what the people who run those organisations are telling us.' And: 'We have to measure it as we go along.' Given that devolved authorities need to plan their budgets for these changes, we only think it is fair for the Welsh Government to provide sufficient funding to alleviate the cost implications of this Bill. Now, while amendment 11 makes reference to costs borne by local authorities and health boards, I note that amendment 12 takes this further by including other devolved authorities that are not funded by Welsh Government. Anticipating the Deputy Minister's response that few under this category, if any at all, would be affected by the Bill, we are pursuing a principle here, and it is agreement to the principle of providing sufficient funding that we are seeking from you as the Deputy Minister. Now, these are just two examples of Welsh Government legislation to date that have been underfunded. The Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013: last year, the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee found that the Wales annual spend on walking and cycling is half that of England's and one sixth of Holland's. Furthermore, the committee highlighted that the passing of the Act put a requirement on local authorities to continuously improve active travel routes, but were constrained by the funding made available to them. The Minister at the time announced a three-year funding settlement of £60 million. Now, my local authority and other authorities that have done some monitoring on the active travel Act—they simply were not awarded sufficient funding to actually allow the active travel Act to become a meaningful piece of legislation, and the same goes with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. This month, the auditor general has raised concerns that the public services boards created under the Act were limited in their work and impact due to the lack of dedicated funding. Outside of the Welsh Government's regional grant that cannot be spent on projects, councils often contribute through officer time or facilities, but resources and capacity to support those PSBs remain a key risk, as partners don't have the capacity to take on more. The reason that I wanted these amendments placed in here is I genuinely do not believe that you've even envisioned what, or even estimated the likely cost to be borne by the organisations, and certainly our local authorities and health boards, the impact this Bill is going to have.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Janet. Are there other Members who would like to speak in this group, please? No. Okay. I call the Deputy Minister, then.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. I can understand that the Member is concerned about the impact of this Bill on public services, but you will see from the explanatory memorandum and from the raft of impact statements published with the Bill that we've done a thorough and extremely diligent job of considering the potential impacts of this Bill before introduction. And as far as we're aware, no other country has done more than us to consider the impacts of similar legislation, and also comprehensively prepared for implementation. We've explored the published data, which is available from other countries, on the impact of measures they've taken to prohibit the physical punishment of children. We've also spoken to a range of stakeholders in Ireland, New Zealand and Malta, who have legal systems similar to our own. And in these countries, there is no evidence that public services have been overwhelmed following law reform. And stakeholders have been clear when giving evidence to this committee that they do not consider there will be runaway costs, and I think we should trust their judgment on this. In fact, as this committee notes in its Stage 1 report, those delivering services on the front line have said, without exception, that 'this Bill will improve their ability to protect children living in Wales because it will make the law clear.' Sally Jenkins of the Association of Directors of Social Services said to this committee: 'In terms of thresholds for children’s services, we would not be anticipating a huge number of referrals to us. There may be a small number of referrals that come through. What we know from other nations is that it will peak and then settle. We recognise that’s likely to happen.' That's from the front line. Jane Randall, chair of the National Independent Safeguarding Board Wales, said: 'there's no expectation that there's going to be a huge increase in the number of referrals coming through to local authority social services, I think it would be dealt with within their existing resources.' And Dr Rowena Christmas, Royal College of General Practitioners, said: 'I can't see it's going to lengthen consultations. I can't see that it's going to increase the number of consultations, and I don't think it's going to increase the number of referrals I make to the health visitor or to social services, because if I was worried, I'd make those referrals now regardless of the Bill.' I just want to say again that the Bill is removing a defence to an offence of common assault, which has formed part of the common law of England and Wales for a very long time. And social services already receive and investigate reports of children being assaulted, including from health and education, so it's not a whole new area of costly activity for any of them. I do think that the evidence that you had at your committee did highlight those points. As I've already pointed out when discussing group 2 amendments, we're working with organisations to put in place arrangements to collect data about the possible impact on their services, and this will be analysed as part of the post-implementation review of the legislation. Welsh Government can consider with relevant organisations how best to manage any impact on workloads or resources and any cost implications. I can assure you that work to update the regulatory impact assessment has continued, and I've asked officials to prepare a revised RIA, as recommended at Stage 2, and I expect to share an updated RIA with you in advance of Stage 3. Serious consideration is being given on how to provide more detailed estimates of the unknown costs to public services arising from the Bill, but I think you should be reassured by the evidence that was given, particularly to this committee, from the professionals at the front line. What the amendments are proposing is outside the normal funding arrangements that operate within Government, and it's not clear why, in the context of the evidence heard at Stage I, such provisions are necessary. I'm sure that Members will agree that future Governments need to be able to consider, within the context of the budget-setting process, what the priorities are, and these considerations would need to be made within the context at that time, for example taking into account any issues that there are—UK Government actions, what happens in relation to Brexit, or any other unforeseen impacts on the economy or Welsh society. All those issues would have to be taken into account. Furthermore, as is the case now, the National Assembly for Wales scrutinises the Welsh Government budget annually, so it would be able to make an argument for additional funding for public bodies, should it consider that this is required. I do think all the evidence has shown that we do not anticipate that there will be a huge increase of a demand for funding, so I urge Members to reject these amendments, which I believe are unnecessary.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Chair, could I ask a question?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "You can reply to the debate now, Janet, yes.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'd like to ask a question of the Deputy Minister. When we were taking evidence, at an earlier stage, I noticed that part of the stakeholder group—there was some liaison going on with social services departments across Wales. Now, we have 22 local authorities. At that time, the numbers mentioned were quite small—I think only a handful. What discussions have taken place with our local authorities in terms of their social services departments in terms of the lead, the cabinet members, or, indeed, the head of service? I can speak from my own experiences, when going around my constituency, but when I've spoken to some of the family support groups, and, indeed, the departments themselves, they are very concerned about the financial impact that this is going to have on the provision. They're already overstretched, and they see this as another burden—primarily another financial burden. So, how much have you engaged with them?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "There's been extensive engagement. We've had meetings with the Association of Directors of Social Services, and they're represented on all our groups, and we're working very closely with them, because, of course, they represent all the local authorities. But I have to say, when I've been going round and meeting lots of different groups, the first thing they say is, 'I'm so glad that you're doing this', and they haven't mentioned any financial implications. But, obviously, we will be very aware of—we are looking at any more evidence that comes up.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, I'll still move my amendments. I'm disappointed, really. I was hoping to see some commitment to—this Bill was going to go through, and it's one that could be implemented fully, because sufficient resources were there. I'm not convinced about that, and I know that other organisations are not also. So, I move my amendments.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 11 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I therefore take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 11 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 12?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 12 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] All those in favour of amendment 12. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 12 is not agreed. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 4?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I move amendment 4 in the name of the Deputy Minister. The question is that amendment 4 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 4, please show. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against, and amendment 4 is agreed. Deputy Minister, do you want to proceed to a vote on amendment 5?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I move amendment 5 in the name of the Deputy Minister. The question is that amendment 5 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 5, please show. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against, and amendment 5 is agreed. Deputy Minister, do you want to move to a vote on amendment 6?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I move amendment 6, then, in the name of the Deputy Minister. The question is that amendment 6 be agreed. Does any Member object? Amendment 6 is therefore agreed. This takes us, then, to the fifth and final group, which relates to commencement. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 9 in the name of Suzy Davies. And I call Suzy Davies to move amendment 9 and to speak to the amendment and the other amendments in the group.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Chair. Amendment 9 is actually consequential on amendment 10 passing, but it's the lead amendment in the group, so I'll move it to begin the debate. Minister, I'm speaking here now to amendments 10 and 15 specifically. You've said repeatedly, and I believe you, that you do not wish to criminalise parents but just to stop them physically punishing their children. You could have chosen to try and achieve this through awareness raising and civil enforcement, but by choosing to remove the defence to a criminal act you have entered the arena of criminal law, where the logical consequence is opening parents up to liability—not necessarily getting prosecuted, but liability to prosecution, not just liability to civil sanctions. I'm sure you'd prefer parents not to be prosecuted, but that decision does not and cannot lie with you. You, like us, have no agency in this, because the powers and the duties of the police and the Crown Prosecution Service sit outside our competence. You cannot and we cannot, by law or otherwise, instruct either of them in the delivery of your policy intention of not criminalising parents. You've acknowledged to this committee and the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee that revised CPS charging guidance and any other guidance on, for example, out-of-court disposals, are key to delivering your policy objectives. You'll remember how concerned this committee was when we learned that your advisory group—the strategic implementation group, is it—was only in the early stages of discussing what these guidelines might look like. So, you're actually asking us to pass law when we have no control over how parents might be punished for smacking their children—no control of the regard given to the relevance of force, the frequency of the offence, any prior conviction, any prior reporting, not even the views of the child in how they might be sentenced, or thresholds that would be appropriate for cautions and other out-of-court disposals; no guidance to the police on thresholds for arrest, let alone charging. And you argue that the rights of the child are what matter, and I agree with you here, but everybody, adult or child, has a right to natural justice and proportionate remedy or censure, and you are in no position to offer us any comfort on these matters at this stage. Now, CLAC recommended that any revised guidance be made available to AMs before Stage 3. I anticipate that that's unlikely, and I hope I'm wrong, but that's why Janet and I have tabled amendments 10 and 15, which prevent you bringing section 1 into force until that CPS guidance has been fully updated to take into account the change in the law and until pathways away from prosecution have been devised and agreed. That reflects our recommendation 4, this committee's recommendation, as well as CLAC's recommendation 1. It gives your strategic implementation board time to consider how it can get around the other fundamentally worrying issue of the effect of recording reports of apparent physical punishment, even if those reports ultimately prove unfounded. And you have not addressed these in your own amendments. I have to say, Minister, I think these points are so serious that I would have liked to have tabled amendments preventing you seeking Royal Assent for this Bill until the Assembly has seen drafts of the range of official guidance needed for the police and CPS. I'd have sought a Report Stage, if I could, so that we could consider that evidence. But I'm therefore asking you to support the amendments we have tabled, 10 and 15, so that we can bring some damage limitation to a process that you ultimately cannot control once this Bill has passed. Now, I know you've got the numbers to pass this Bill, whether you accept amendments or not, but I just hope you can see the danger in pushing forward with a Bill that changes a person's relationship with the criminal law when you have no legal control over the consequences of that, and you're inviting this Assembly to fall into the same trap. I therefore urge the Assembly to avoid this recklessness by supporting these two amendments.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Suzy. Are there other Members who wish to speak? No. Janet, do you want to speak?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I wish to speak to amendments 14 and 16. Amendment 14, however, is consequential to amendment 16 passing. Amendment 16 prevents this from commencing until parenting support services have been established by the Welsh Government. As was clear during the committee's evidence sessions, present Welsh Government support programmes for parents have insufficient coverage. For example, the capacity and reach of the Healthy Child Wales programme came under question on its role in awareness raising, with health representatives acknowledging that universality had not been achieved, with 53.2 per cent of children in Wales reported as being contacted. Furthermore, existing parenting support is often only available as part of a targeted programme in specific areas, such as Flying Start, and even the children's commissioner noted that much more is needed to support parents to find alternatives to disciplining their children. Now, the Deputy Minister mentioned the 'Parenting: Give it Time' campaign as part of proposals on a wider package of support for children and their parents. However, the Deputy Minister was challenged on this fact, that this is an online campaign only, and could only respond that the mapping exercise she will undertake. Consequently, it should be remembered that this Bill will affect all parents. Therefore, the Deputy Minister needs to assure the committee and the public that universal support will be provided before the removal of the defence occurs.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Janet. Deputy Minister.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. I've listened to what stakeholders and committees have said about the importance of ensuring sufficient time is available prior to the change in the law to abolish the defence of reasonable punishment during Stage 1. As a result, I have brought forward amendments in this group to provide certainty around the date for the change in the law. My amendment 7 will remove the power to commence this core provision of the Bill by Order of the Welsh Ministers and ensure that the defence of reasonable punishment is abolished at the end of a two-year period beginning the day after Royal Assent. That was done to give certainty on the length of time. Up to then, we'd always said 'up to two years'—well, we're giving two years. This certainty will allow key partners, including the police, social services and the Crown Prosecution Service, to plan for changes to guidance, training and data-collection systems more effectively. It'll also provide a focus for our awareness-raising campaign. My amendment 8 in this group has the consequence of removing the power to make transitional provision, which is replaced by my amendments 3 and 6, and we discussed those in the previous group. I've listened to the arguments put forward by Suzy Davies and Janet Finch-Saunders for the amendments in this group that they have tabled. These amendments are all about making the commencement of the Bill conditional on something else happening, whether it's waiting for the revision of Crown Prosecution Service guidance, or the establishment of a pathway for diversion from the criminal justice system, or for the provision of parenting support services. And, really, I don't think that we should be going down that road. As I set out in my letter of response to the Stage 1 report from the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee, we've got good working relations with the CPS through the strategic implementation group, and we work very closely with them. But the CPS are an independent body, as Suzy Davies has said in her contribution, not answerable to Welsh Ministers or this legislature, and it's not appropriate for a Minister or the National Assembly to seek to influence the CPS guidelines. We're discussing the issues with the CPS in the implementation group. And, in fact, I think that these amendments—Suzy's amendments in particular—wouldn't just seek to influence the CPS, but would actually give power to a non-devolved body on the way that we legislate in Wales. So, I don't think we should make it conditional on those guidelines being decided. I think you have to rely on the fact that we have got this very good relationship, very close working relationship. And I know they did give evidence to your committee, I believe, the CPS. And I think legislating to effectively give a non-devolved body a power to commence, or not, Assembly legislation would be highly unusual and would raise great uncertainty, I think, if we did go down that track, because I think this is very important Welsh legislation, which does have broad support across the Assembly. And I don't think we should allow non-devolved bodies to be the final arbiters of commencement of our legislation. So, I don't support those amendments. I think the CPS is entirely independent of Government, and must be entirely independent of Government, and will make its own decisions about how and when it will revise its guidance. In addition, you suggest we allow the UK Government to have a say in when Welsh legislation is commenced in an area that was specifically devolved to the Assembly. The test applied by the proposed amendments as to when commencement could lawfully occur is uncertain. If these amendments passed, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to judge when section 1 could be commenced. This contravenes what stakeholders and committees have asked for, and raises huge uncertainty, which potentially jeopardises the Bill. And I want to assure you again, not only do we have good working relations with the CPS, but also very good working relationships with the police, who are, of course, the other non-devolved body who have great involvement and interest in these issues. The work we do in these groups should not affect the timing of the Bill's commencement. In fact, it's the other way round. My amendment to provide a two-year period between Royal Assent and commencement means these groups can plan their work to a known timescale and deliver in good time before the law comes into force. And then, when it comes to parenting support, the committee knows that I've committed to reviewing the existing provision of parenting support, and work is already under way through the parenting expert group on this very issue. I have already said I will expand the age range of the 'Parenting: Give it Time' campaign, and I think—. I know Janet Finch-Saunders has made the point that it is an online facility. It is very widely used. It is a very successful tool. But, of course, the universal services are also there. For example, the universal service of the health visitors is absolutely crucial, and that is a service that is for every child. And, of course, the health visitors welcome this legislation very strongly. And the expert group is considering what it'll recommend for the future, and it needs the time to be able to do that, to support the Bill as well as to support parenting more widely. So, as I said, I think these are important points that you have raised, but I don't think they are appropriate. So, I therefore urge the committee not to support amendments 9 and 10, nor 13, 14 and 15.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Suzy to reply to the debate.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, and thank you very much, Deputy Minister, as well. I'm disappointed that you haven't seen what's behind Janet Finch-Saunders's final amendment there, actually. Maybe it's something we'll raise again with you at Stage 3, or maybe in the conversations that we have between now and then. But I want to go back to amendments 10 and 15 that I've raised and your assertion that we're giving, or attempting to give, power to the CPS here. We are not. This amendment is drafted very specifically and in full knowledge that we have no legislative competence in this area. And this is why I go back to where my contribution to this started, and it's your choice to try and resolve the problem of—or, sorry, to try and protect children's rights through the medium of a change to the criminal law rather than the many opportunities that were available to you through the civil law and over which you would have had complete competence. This Bill—and, actually, you've said a couple of times in your response today that it's important that it's commenced on a certain date. My argument is: it shouldn't be commenced at all unless you are absolutely certain about how it is likely to affect the parents who will now be captured by the removal of the defence. And, while I claim no mischief on the part of the CPS or the police—obviously I don't—there is nothing you can do that would prevent the CPS, should they wish to do it, or indeed the police with their own guidelines, putting in place something that is wholly disproportionate to the offence that is now being released by the removal of a defence. And, because of that, I ask you to consider, or balance, actually, two important things here: one is the rights of the child, obviously at the forefront of your argument on this, which I would argue could be completely and safely protected through the use of civil law on this occasion; and, actually, the rights of the child again to have a good relationship with parents over whose future they will have no say—or at least you cannot allow them to have any say in how those parents might be treated in terms of sentencing. The relationship between parents and children obviously is different in every family, but that's something you ought to protect in what you're trying to do here, and by leaving it open, as you say, to completely different—sorry, undevolved, two undevolved authorities to make decisions about how that relationship could be affected deeply worries me. I know this isn't going to stop your Bill going forward, but I really want you to consider my arguments and how you might try and address them at Stage 3, because leaving, effectively, the delivery of your policy objectives to somebody over whom you have no control, despite your great relationship with them, should worry us all as a legislature. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you, Suzy. Do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 9?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, because of the voting order—. Yes, please.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 9 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 9, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 9 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 13?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 13 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 13, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 13 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 14?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 14 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 14, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 14 is not agreed. Deputy Minister, do you wish to move to a vote on amendment 7?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I do.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I move amendment 7 in the name of the Deputy Minister. The question is that amendment 7 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 7, please show. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against. Amendment 7 is agreed. Suzy, do you wish to move amendment 10?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, please.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 10 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 10, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 10 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 15?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I do.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 15 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 15, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 15 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 16?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I move.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "The question is that amendment 16 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 16, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 16 is not agreed. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 8?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I do.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I move amendment 8, then, in the name of the Minister. The question is that amendment 8 be agreed. Does any Member object? Amendment 8 is therefore agreed. Well, that has brought us to the end of our amendments, so can I thank the Deputy Minister and her officials for their attendance? As usual, you will be sent a transcript of the meeting to check for factual accuracy. This completes Stage 2 proceedings. Stage 3 begins tomorrow, and the relevant date of Stage 3 proceedings will be published in due course. Standing Orders make provision for the Deputy Minister to prepare a revised explanatory memorandum, taking account of the amendments agreed today. The revised memorandum will be laid at least five working days before Stage 3 proceedings. Thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you all very much.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, following our meeting on 2 October. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services updating the committee on the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' strategy. And paper to note 3 is a letter from myself to the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services regarding early childhood education and care, following the session that we held on 2 October. Are Members happy to note those? Thank you. Item 4, then, is for me to propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_7 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"1",
"42"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion of simplifying early childhood education and care programmes and solving the problem of co-location"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"43",
"46"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion of the big differences of care provision in different parts of Wales"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"47",
"73"
]
],
"topic": "Cutting of the foundation and demand-driven approach in the programme"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"74",
"93"
]
],
"topic": "Focus on the usage and demand of Welsh language skills"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"94",
"104"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion of the competition in using formal childcare"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"105",
"168"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion of the reviewing on the programme and technical issues with HMRC"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"169",
"188"
]
],
"topic": "Extra cost and price tag of the programme"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"189",
"261"
]
],
"topic": "Eligibility checks and Flying Start programme"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting contains discussions of the main focus on early childhood education and care programmes.The team were working with local authorities and healthboards to see how to work together and simplify the Welsh Government's approach, looking forward to encouraging the development of the foundation phase in non-maintained settings. Addressing big differences in the amount of early childhood education in different parts of Wales, the team answered the needs of the families and the children in certain areas. Then the meeting discussed the demand-driven approach to the childcare market, asserting there was no evidence of cutting on the foundation. Then the team answered the question about the demand of Welsh language skills by obviously differing degrees and hiring workers of different backgrounds. When talking about the competition with existing formal childcare, the team believed it was expected. Then the team alleged they would do more investment and reviews on the programme, and discussed how to tackle the technical issues with HMRC. Next the extra cost was not yet defined, the price tag was announced to be £2.5million. Finally, the meeting discussed the necessity of adding eligibility checks to the beginning of the programme, and the details on the sample \"Flying Start'' programme.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan insisted that they were aware that different local authorities actually had adopted different patterns of providing early education. And with the Flying Start programme being geographically targeted, with the education being determined by the local authorities, they knew that there was a variance throughout Wales. Then they would like to see facilities developed in each local authority throughout Wales that would answer the needs of the families and the children in those areas. And It was demand-led and universally available to all parents who meet the eligibility criteria of working, so they believed the programme should be available to everybody.",
"query": "What did the group discuss about differences of care provision in different parts of Wales?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"44",
"63"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Welsh and UK Governments had followed a demand-driven approach to the childcare market, with subsidies mainly given to working parents, which was a mistake and should be more universally available. The demand-driven approach was based more on certain factors: geographic spread in terms of it being more universal, and whether that's the right way. It was hard for children to mix with peers from different backgrounds and age groups? Next, some areas had traditionally got more childcare anyway because they had traditionally more demand in those areas, so there was not a level playing field to start from.",
"query": "What did Janet Finch-Saunders think of childcare when discussing differences of care provision in different parts of Wales?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"52",
"63"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The team was aware that different local authorities actually had adopted different patterns of providing early education. And with the Flying Start programme being geographically targeted, with the education being determined by the local authorities, they knew that there was a variance throughout Wales. Next some of their care provision was universally available in certain areas. Then historically, that was definitely true, and they were certainly planning to expand it, developing a more integrated approach towards the early years. Finally they had got the system of inspection to ensure that.",
"query": "What's the conclusion of the discussion about differences of care provision in different parts of Wales?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"43",
"73"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Janet Finch-Saunders believed that the Welsh and UK Governments had followed a demand-driven approach to the childcare market, with subsidies mainly given to working parents, so there was not a level playing field to start from. However, Julie Morgan insisted that some of their provision was universally available in certain areas. Hence historically that was definitely true of the programme. Then they were certainly planning to expand the programme, which is believed to be a demand-led approach. Last they were managing it within the normal budgetary process, developing a more integrated approach towards the early years, and had got the system of inspection to ensure that.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the demand-driven approach in the programme.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"67",
"83"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan insisted that some of their provision was universally available in certain areas. Hence historically that was definitely true of the programme. Then they were certainly planning to expand the programme, which is believed to be a demand-led approach. Last they were managing it within the normal budgetary process, developing a more integrated approach towards the early years, and had got the system of inspection to ensure that.",
"query": "What's the decision of the discussion about the demand-driven approach in the programme?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"67",
"73"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan certainly plans to expand the programme, which is believed to be a demand-led approach. Last they were managing it within the normal budgetary process, developing a more integrated approach towards the early years, and had got the system of inspection to ensure that. Because some of their provision was universally available in certain areas. Hence historically that was definitely true of the programme.",
"query": "What did Julie Morgan recommend to do when discussing the demand-driven approach in the programme and why?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"47",
"73"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan thought the demand was very important, and they were pleased that 29 per cent of children taking up the childcare offer were in Welsh or bilingual settings, so that they established a specific programme to develop Welsh language skills in the childcare and played workforce with the National Centre for Learning Welsh to develop workplace Welsh language skills across the sector. But Suzy Davies thought that just on this early point, anybody who had been through the Welsh education system which is 20 years now, would have Welsh language skills obviously to differing degrees. Next, Nicola Edwards alleged that it was not necessarily appropriate for teaching language to children, because they might be coming from families who didn't use Welsh at home, but it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the demand of Welsh language skills.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"74",
"93"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Nicola Edwards alleged that it was not necessarily appropriate for teaching language to children, because they might be coming from families who didn't use Welsh at home, but it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.",
"query": "What did Nicola Edwards think of the need of teaching language when discussing the demand of Welsh language skills?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"81",
"83"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan recommended to believe the demand was very important, and to establish a specific programme to develop Welsh language skills in childcare and played workforce with the National Centre for Learning Welsh to develop workplace Welsh language skills across the sector. And also she agreed on Nicola Edwards's idea that they should have a stakeholder group where they had brought together a variety of people with an interest in the early years, childcare and play sectors.",
"query": "What did Julie Morgan recommend to do when discussing the demand of Welsh language skills and why?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"74",
"76"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Sian Gwenllian pointed out that the issues with HMRC had come to light that had made the team suspended the programme for the HMRC would have put limits on that. Julie Morgan answered that in terms of the Welsh language standards that the Minister had to use, there would be some difficulties in them doing it. For instance this would be delivered via HMRC with the English offer, which would cause difficulties for the Welsh offer. So, they wanted something more flexible. Nicola Edwards also agreed that the technical issues with HMRC for HMRC did provide a bilingual service at the moment for their customers in line with their Welsh language scheme. Jo-Anne Daniels finally came to the conclusion that they could deliver a cheaper system with flexibility that the Deputy Minister had referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC.",
"query": "Summarize the discussion about the issues with HMRC.",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"149",
"169"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Julie Morgan thought that in terms of the Welsh language standards that the Minister had to use, there would be some difficulties in them doing the programme. For instance this would be delivered via HMRC with the English offer, which would cause difficulties for the Welsh offer. So, they wanted something more flexible.",
"query": "What did Julie Morgan think of the issues with HMRC?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"149",
"167"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Jo-Anne Daniels finally came to the conclusion that they could deliver a cheaper system with flexibility that the Deputy Minister had referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC. At the moment, the extra cost would be about £2.5 million, which according to their initial estimate suggested that it would be less than the cost proposed by HMRC.",
"query": "What's the decision of the discussion about the issues with HMRC?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"172",
"181"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence this morning. Can I ask if there are any declarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 3 this morning then is a scrutiny session on early childhood education and care, and I'm very pleased to welcome Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services; Jo-anne Daniels, director of communities and tackling poverty at Welsh Government; and Nicola Edwards, deputy director of the childcare, play and early years division in Welsh Government. Thank you all for your attendance. We’re very much looking forward to the session. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions, and the first ones are from Hefin David.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Good morning, Deputy Minister. What are your primary objectives? Is it supporting the development of children or getting parents into work?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think you'll be aware from the range of programmes that we've got that we do feel it’s important to support both children and parents. There's obviously lots of evidence to show how important the early years are for children, how important they are for their development, and so, that is one of our primary objectives. But we also know how important it is for parents to have stable jobs, reasonably paid, so that can also help with the development of the children. So, we really see it that our plans are for both parents and children, and we believe that a high-quality, early-childhood education and care system can provide that. And, of course, in terms of when we talk about jobs as well, I think it’s really important to remember that the childcare system is a big employer as well and a very important employer. So that, actually, itself provides jobs.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, the evidence we've seen suggests that, historically, Governments in the UK and devolved have focused on primarily getting parents into work. So, are you suggesting then that your focus is to change that and move towards early child development?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "No, what I'm saying is that we want to give parents the opportunity to work. We don't want childcare to be a barrier to parents working because we think that working is one the best routes out of poverty, but we do also want to make sure that children have the greatest experience that they can have in the early years. So, we see it as one.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And that's quite a policy challenge to deliver both at the same time.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "The situation as it is is complex, and I think it needs simplifying. It is a challenge, but it’s probably one of the most important challenges we've got in Government, because what we offer to families with young children is one of the most important things we do.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And in your evidence to the committee, you said that the Welsh Government’s approach 'will build on a wide variety of programmes that are continually developing in order to support parents, families and children during the early years.' And you've just said you want to simplify that. How do you simplify that, particularly with regard to the provision of funding and the way these things connect from the birth of a child into school? How will simplification look, and what will happen?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we're not at the stage of being able to say what it will look like at the moment, but we're looking at ways of simplifying, because I think it’s absolutely right, it is a very complex system, because it’s grown up from all different routes. But we are having lots of pilot projects that are looking at ways of simplifying the system. We have got pathway projects in, I think it’s eight local authorities, who are looking at ways of joining up the whole system. So, we are looking at that, and I absolutely except that it is very complex and we want to find ways of making it simpler and easier to understand. So, we are working with local authorities and health boards to see how we can actually work together and simplify things.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And it's good to hear that that's your objective. Can I just come back to the first thing you said: 'We can't say yet what we're going to do'?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "No.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, when will we have a policy plan and something that we can interrogate in more detail?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think we are near getting to an announcement where we will be able to say what direction we're going in, and because we have had—. Some of this work has been going on for a year or so, and we're getting the results of those pathfinder projects coming in. So, when we do have all those results, we will be able to say the direction that we want to go in, and I hope we'll be able to do that very soon.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Before Christmas?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I hope so.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And finally from me—",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm sorry I can't say too much about that because we haven't actually—. We need to—.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it does sound like something is imminent.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And that's as far as you're willing to go. And if that's as far as you're willing to go, then I'll stop asking.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I've got a supplementary from Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that's fine.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I just want to understand a little about the pilot, the pathfinders in eight local authority areas. Is the focus there on the child or is it on parents returning to work?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "The focus is on an early years system, but we've worked both locally and nationally. So, it's looking at both. I mean, actually, I think, perhaps, Nicola, would you like to or one of you like to describe one of the programmes?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And can you just explain the vision? Is it a child-centred early years provision that we're thinking of in these pathfinder—?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "So, in 'Prosperity for All', we set out that early years was one of the key priority areas, and within that we said that we wanted to create a more joined-up and more responsive system. So, when we talk about a system, we're talking about the services that are provided by health boards, so health visiting, midwifery, speech and language support, other kinds of therapeutic services, as well as all the important services that local authorities are providing, such as support for parenting, advice and guidance, employment support and childcare, obviously. And we've got eight pathfinders. I'll try and remember each of them. So, Flintshire, Newport, Blaenau Gwent, Neath Port Talbot, Swansea, Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire—and then I've missed one, I think, because I've only got to seven—who have been working with us to look at how all of those services are currently delivered in their local area and whether and how they can reorganise those services to improve accessibility, to improve take-up, but essentially to improve the efficacy of those programmes in terms of supporting children, but often, obviously, in supporting children you have to support parents too and support the home.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "So, would you say it's a child-centred approach?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely, because it's about making sure that we deliver the best start in life for children in Wales, but obviously parents are a critical element of that, so can't be excluded.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "And how long have they been going for?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "So, those eight pathfinders started their work in—I think it was—February this year. And they're still in the very early stages in terms of actually unpicking and mapping the current provision of services across their areas and then moving on to the stage where they'll develop proposals for how they might change the delivery of early years.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Julie.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just to say also, the one in Flintshire is also testing the impact of consistent funding rates for education and childcare. So, that's been going longer than the others. So, that's another important area because there's an evaluation of that project under way at the moment.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, but Caerphilly was the one that I forgot to mention.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Oh dear. [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "That's absolutely unforgivable. [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Hefin. [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Very significant.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "In your report, the 'Alignment of the Childcare Offer for Wales to the Foundation Phase', one of the recommendations was that 'The Welsh Government, local authority education and childcare policy and delivery teams could merge'. So, looking behind the scenes, those disparate parts of policy, delivering the foundation phase and childcare offer should merge. Is that the case? Has that been put under way and should we be looking at this structure in more depth?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, probably not at the structure at this time because the report that you're referring to was looking at the first year of the delivery of the childcare offer and it did make a number of points, which we have taken on board. For example, we issued guidance last year regarding the delivery of the foundation phase, which supports widening the number of non-maintained settings that are able to deliver early education and we're also supporting co-location and partnership working between education and childcare providers through our capital investment programme. I think it's about £81 million that we put into the capital investment where we are developing childcare facilities co-located with the education facilities, because that was one of the things that came out from this report you're referring to. And, I mean, obviously, early years is one of the key priorities within 'Prosperity for All' and, obviously, education sits within one portfolio with the Minister for Education, and childcare is with me. But we're doing what we can to work together to try to bring those together, and that was one of the proposals in that report. But it's still very early to think about, at this stage, a structural change.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And I remember when you were on the committee here with me, sitting next to me, we had those discussions about co-location. I know the problem with not having co-location is that you could end up seeing a child travelling between three or more locations during the course of a day. Are you suggesting now that the actions you're taking will resolve that issue universally, or will it lead to a piecemeal resolution? And, if so, to what extent, what percentage of children will see that resolved as an issue?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Certainly, the co-location is not going to solve it universally because although we've been able to develop a lot of new facilities, or build on old facilities, there will be a lot of areas that we won't have covered. So, I can't say that there's going to be a situation where everything is going to be co-located because I don't think that would be feasible, and,for some of the providers, they wouldn't be in a position to move to a school. But ideally it's a good situation, but, certainly, I think the discussions that there were on the committee, it's not ideal to take children for long distances between different providers, let alone the effect it has on the climate change issue. It's whether it's good for children as well. So, I can't say that they will ever be co-located, but as I said in response to your earlier question, we are encouraging the development of the foundation phase in non-maintained settings, which, obviously, is quite significant.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. I've got some questions now from Janet Finch-Saunders.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. What is the Welsh Government doing to address the big differences in the amount of early childhood education and care provision available in different parts of Wales?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Right. Well, thank you very much for that question. I mean, obviously, it would be good to see a greater degree of consistency, but I think it's important to acknowledge that there are reasons for that variation. Now, early education, of course, is the responsibility of the Minister for Education, and we are aware that different local authorities have adopted different patterns of providing early education. For example, local authorities are funded to provide 10 hours minimum of the foundation phase for three and four-year-olds across Wales, but there's quite a variance in how much is actually provided, with some local authorities providing a lot more historically. So, it does mean that there is a different pattern across Wales, according to what local authorities do. But what I could say is, of course, the quality is very good, as the Estyn reports have shown; that the quality provided, the delivery of the foundation phase, is very good. But it does vary in terms of what is offered throughout Wales, and that is the decision of the local authorities, and it is a historical thing. I refer to this pilot in Flint, which is trying to test paying the same rate for foundation phase and childcare. We're going to have an independent evaluation on that soon, in November this year, so that will help us. Obviously, I think local authorities' role in all this is absolutely crucial because they are the local, nearest people to decide how things develop in their own areas. And then, of course, we've got Flying Start, which is geographically targeted, which uses the data from income benefit to decide which are the areas where that is being delivered. And that is delivered where the highest proportion of children aged nought to three are living in income-dependent households. So, again, that determines the pattern throughout Wales. With Flying Start being geographically targeted, with the education being determined by the local authorities about how much there is, we know that there is a variance throughout Wales. We'd like to see facilities developed in each local authority throughout Wales that would answer the needs of the families and the children in those areas.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Before you move on, Janet, Siân's got a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just in terms of the foundation phase, there have been cuts, of course, in expenditure in that phase. How concerned are you about that and the impact that that will have on the way in which the foundation phase is taught in our schools? The foundation phase is now part of the education improvement grant, which has seen a reduction of 10 per cent, and it has to compete against other expenditure streams within that greater pot of funding. So, are you concerned that money is being lost and that that will have an impact on standards in the foundation phase?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I haven't seen any evidence. Obviously, I must reiterate the foundation phase does come under the Minister for Education, but I haven't seen any evidence of any standards being lowered, and the reports from Estyn are very good. In fact, I think the foundation phase is one of our great joys, that we absolutely celebrate it, and so I'd be very concerned if I thought there was any drop in standards in the foundation phase, and I certainly haven't had any evidence of that. I would want to guard against that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Exactly, but if there are fewer teaching assistants in the system because of the cuts, it's going to impact on standards, at the end of the day.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we have to be very careful to see that lower standards are not implemented, because it was groundbreaking when we brought it in, and it has proved to be a great success, so we want to make sure that's guarded.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Going back to my original question about the big differences in amounts of early childhood education and care provision in different parts of Wales, the Welsh and UK Governments have followed a demand-driven approach to the childcare market, with subsidies mainly given to working parents. Is that a mistake? Should it be more universally available?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, some of our provision is universally available in certain areas. For example, the Flying Start provision is universally available in geographically defined areas, and I think that's very important, because that does mean that there isn't stigma, and so,in those areas, everybody can take advantage of it, and yet it is reaching those who are most in need because it's reaching those areas. So, I think that there is a purpose behind that. In terms of when you say demand led, could you elaborate on that?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I know that—we've just had a useful briefing from David Dallimore, and, basically, there is this theory that there are too many resources—the demand-driven approach is based more on certain factors: geographic spread in terms of it being more universal, and whether that's the right way. How do children then mix with peers from different backgrounds, in their own peer or age group?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "It is demand—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "[Inaudible.]—because the offer is targeted at working parents—",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Yes, yes.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "—obviously, then the amount of availability is based on how many parents apply for it and take it up. Is that the context of demand led in that—",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Right, okay.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "It is universally available to all parents who meet the eligibility criteria of working, and I think what you're saying is that it should be available to everybody.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the point that Janet's making is that some areas have traditionally got more childcare anyway because they have traditionally had more demand in those areas, so there's not a level playing field to start from. Is that correct?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that, historically, that is definitely true, and when you look at the take-up of the childcare offer, it's certainly taken up in some areas with a very high take-up rate. I think Ynys Môn was nearly 90 per cent or something—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "They need more money, because they haven't got enough funding.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "So does everywhere.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "No, to meet the demand.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "In other areas, it's much, much lower—in some of the cities, I know. So, there is a big range in take-up—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, do you intend to bring something forward to address that?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We are planning to extend it. We're looking at the possibility of extending it to parents who are in education and training. So, we are widening the offer, yes. Obviously, we have to wait for the evaluation of that. It would be great to be able to offer it to absolutely everybody, but obviously we have got the finance to look at in terms of how we do that. But we are certainly planning to expand it.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "We've got questions on the offer in a little while. Janet.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Does the Welsh Government intend to develop an integrated approach, then, against all settings? If so, given the current inconsistencies, how can quality be assured?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We are developing a more integrated approach towards the early years. As I've said, we're trying to have the foundation phase operating in more non-maintained settings, and we're already developing that. But Estyn and CIW will continue to inspect and regulate the early years sector to ensure standards, and, since January 2019, CIW and Estyn have moved to joint inspections for the non-maintained settings that are offering the foundation phase. So, that is a very positive move, I think, and is absolutely making sure that standards are maintained, because if we are having the foundation phase in non-maintained settings, that is a challenge where we want to be sure that the standards and the philosophy of the foundation phase are maintained. So, we have got the system of inspection to ensure that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And finally from me, what specific steps have been put in place to take forward the commitments from the Welsh Government's 2017 childcare/play early years workforce plan to build a better understanding of the workforce's Welsh language skills to enable support for the sector to be targeted and to identify where capacity needs to be built for the future to meet the needs of the early years sector in a bilingual Wales?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We think this is very important, and we're pleased that 29 per cent of children taking up the childcare offer are in Welsh or bilingual settings, so we think that's very good. We have established a specific programme to develop Welsh language skills in the childcare and play workforce with the National Centre for Learning Welsh, to develop workplace Welsh language skills across the sector. So, we're actually working with that, and I think you've done something with those recently, haven't you? I don't know if you want to—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, we have a stakeholder group where we've brought together a variety of people with an interest in the early years, childcare and play sectors, and we had a presentation just last month from the national language centre about the education programmes that they're rolling out, and how this is all coming together, which is quite interesting. We've been working quite carefully to make sure that the variety of work-based learning programmes that we provide and offer are also available in Welsh and bilingually. Recruitment and retention within the childcare and play sector is quite challenging in any case. Recruiting and retaining staff with really good Welsh language skills adds an extra dimension to it, and that it's a point that Mudiad Meithrin makes to us quite regularly, that they do struggle to find staff with the right skills. So, upskilling the existing workforce is a key part of it, but also doing more to attract people in with Welsh language skills in the first place in terms of the training courses that we're taking forward, and thinking about that in the context of the targets within Cymraeg 2050 and the aim to get to one million Welsh speakers. So, as the Deputy Minister said, we've got quite a number of children accessing the offer in Welsh-medium or bilingual settings at the moment. We're going to be doing some baselining work against that in terms of local authorities' Welsh in education strategic plans and education places, and what we can then do to increase the number of childcare places in parallel with that so that you can make sure that you start that pathway through learning Welsh, interacting with education and childcare through Welsh at a much earlier stage.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Suzy, you've got a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just on this early point, anybody who's been through the Welsh education system, which is 20 years now, will have some Welsh language skills, obviously to differing degrees. For the entrants that are coming into childcare training now, there are going to be very few of them, realistically, with no Welsh at all, so what's actually being incorporated into the early years care training to make sure, at that stage, that the Welsh language skills are being developed, as opposed to an add-on later on?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "You're quite right. Most people coming through the education system will have some awareness of Welsh although I think it's probably important to remember we do also employ people from outside of wales.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but the majority, being realistic.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "But they don't necessarily have Welsh that is appropriate. They've got Welsh that they've developed in school. It's not necessarily appropriate for then teaching that language to children, who may be coming from families who don't use Welsh at home. So, that might be the first interaction that child has with the language. So, there's a lot of that in terms of child development and how you develop children bilingually, particularly if they're coming from English-medium homes, and reinforcing the language in language choices. There will also be some people who are, perhaps—we see this quite a lot in the office—quite confident in terms of speaking Welsh but less so in terms of some of the paperwork, the reporting, the writing and the interacting with parents more officially, which we need to think about as well. But it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And it's ingrained in the early years training.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Okay. That's fine. Thank you for that. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Just before we move on, you said that 29 per cent of the take-up of the childcare offer is either through Welsh or is bilingual. Have you got any figures about how many children are accessing it in Welsh only?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We will have. It becomes—. With the way we do it, it's because of the way that the setting defines their language category, and that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, that's fine.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impact?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did show, however, was that 94 per cent of respondents said that they were already using formal childcare before the offer came into place. A couple of things, really: are you surprised at that, and is that likely to inform the way that you develop the offer in the future?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "No, I'm not surprised at all. When it started off, it was only available in seven local authorities. In terms of how the families found out that it was available, they found it out through the childcare providers, where they already had their children there. So it was absolutely what we would have expected, and that will continue. But, of course, we were not able to fully advertise the childcare offer until it was available in all the local authorities, which was last April. So we are planning, this autumn, quite a big push now to try to make it available to everybody—so everybody knows about it. So, no, this is the pattern we would have expected, and I think anybody who's involved in starting up something in childcare will know you have to wait a number of years before you actually see it being fully taken up.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I guess the question that it raises in my mind is: does this mean that, actually, it hasn't been an incentive to get somebody back into work, because they were already in work and already had childcare provision? What you've done is you've directed money to people who were already spending that money anyway. So it hasn't been a move towards getting people into work because they couldn't afford childcare.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well I think that that is something that we are moving towards, because the take-up of the offer is actually increasing each month, which is why I call it a great success. At the end of July, we hit almost 16,000 children accessing the offer, which obviously means that there are 16,000 families benefiting from this, and the feedback that we have had from parents is that they have been able to—. They've got more money available, which is obvious, which is great, because obviously more money is available to plunge into the economy and carry out that sort of thing, and we've got examples of parents who've been supported into work through programmes like Parents, Childcare and Employment to begin with, and then have gone on to access the offer. So, that's again a progression. So, I think we are seeing signs that people are moving on, have got more ability to be flexible in the work that they're doing, but I hope that when we look at it again, we will be able to see people actually moving into work because of having the access to childcare.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Before—",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Are you going to move on? Siân's got a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just a question on funding for the childcare offer. If you foresee that there's going to be more people going to be taking up that offer through the fact that you're marketing it more, what if the same situation arises that has happened on Anglesey? The take-up has been very good there, but the money that the Welsh Government has been allocating to Anglesey doesn't match that. What if it happens in every local authority right across Wales? Are you confident there's going to be plenty of money available to respond to that demand?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Based on the current levels of take-up and looking at the rates of increase each month, we expect to spend in the region of £50 million to £55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of £40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Môn, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. You can assure them.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Dawn.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about 'on the cusp' of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what 'on the cusp' of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly? So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what 'on the cusp of returning to work' is—what that means from your perspective—and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusion?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, obviously, the children and young persons committee made a very good case for education and training, in particular; I think that was one of the things that was at the top of the list. What we've committed to do is to review the programme, particularly looking at how we could bring in education and training, and that review will report early next year. So, early next year, we will have a view on how we could go forward. But the other thing that's also happened is that, obviously, with the new First Minister, that was one of his manifesto commitments—that he would bring education and training in. So, we're obviously following the—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Because that was one of the key drivers for that as well.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, so that is another of the key drivers, as you said—the committee and what the First Minister said. There are a wealth of programmes supporting parents into education, training or work, and many of those do provide support with childcare costs. But we have, by rolling out this programme, the childcare programme, highlighted some gaps where people have felt that they, particularly people who are in full-time education—and I can think of a number of people who are actually doing PhD studies—who are—the letters may have come in from some of your constituents—not able to access the offer as things stand. So, we are looking at people who are in full-time education and training. We're using the definition by the Office for National Statistics, aren't we, in terms of education and training. And on 'on the cusp of work', maybe that will have to be something we have to look at differently—those people who are actually maybe undertaking very short training programmes, preparation for work, maybe actually having interviews, where they need help with childcare, that they're sort of almost there. So, they may have to be dealt with in a different way, but I think we do want to look at those. This is expanding the offer; it's not making it universal, but it's moving on.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, what are the—? Overall, then, what are the factors that you're having to take into account? Is it going to be what is needed in order to encourage people back into work? Is it going to be cost? Is it going to be a combination of all of those things? What are going to be the key factors that you're going to be looking at?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the position now is that anybody who fulfills the criteria in terms of the number of hours they work, we would look at that in terms of education and training, and then, this expression 'on the cusp of work' we may have to look at differently, because they may not fulfil those numbers in terms of number of hours training. So, we'll get a criteria, and then they will have access to the childcare offer. But I just have to emphasise that there are ways of getting help with childcare already, and we wanted to make sure we don't duplicate. That's why this field is so complex, shall we say, because there's so many different ways that you can actually get help, and we want to be sure that we don't duplicate—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Sorry, Julie. So, all of this is going to be incorporated in this announcement that you're going to be making shortly—",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "No, this review will report early next year.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. My final question—",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Before you move on, sorry, I've got a couple of supplementaries. I've got Suzy, then Siân. Sorry, Dawn.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Just on the cost element, because if you do roll out this programme, obviously, on the back of evidence through a review, it is going to cost extra money. Early years is one of the eight priority areas for Government. There are fairly generous Barnett consequentials coming from the comprehensive spending review and announcements on schools from the UK Government, and while I accept that you've only got annual commitments there, they're still substantial. How much money have you managed to secure for early years from the most recent announcement, and when have you planned to actually use that, maybe for some of this work?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Have you got some information on that?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "The budget process is ongoing internally, so I think 'secured' is probably a slightly premature phrase.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Am I allowed to ask instead how much you've asked for, then? All I'm after is some reassurance that you will be getting some of this money, and as it is one of the eight priorities, certainly we would expect to see you getting a substantial amount of money for early years.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "As one of the Government's priorities, we would expect to get any money that came as a result of any Barnett consequentials.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. And it will be in the draft budget that we know for sure if it is successful.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "It's all in the process—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "And the committee will want to look very carefully at that, obviously.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "It's in the process at the moment.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "There we are. Just giving you a good warning.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "How much would it cost to move to a child-centred approach, which means that every child would be able to access the childcare offer, rather than doing it from parents?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "We are looking at that. We're having a longer-term review, in terms of what it would mean if every child had access to the childcare offer. We don't have those figures yet. We've got the one review looking at bringing in education and training. That should report early next year, and then we've got another longer-term review, looking at what a universal offer would mean.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Do we know how many children we're talking about?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, there are approximately, at any given time, around 73,000 three and four-year-olds in Wales. There's some slight rounding in the numbers there, but approximately 73,000 at any given time. Based on the current eligibility criteria for the offer, it's about 34,000 children, we believe, are eligible. This does, of course, vary, depending on a whole range of different factors, and we certainly know from what we're seeing from the offer that, even where people are entitled to something, they don't necessarily take it up. And even if they do take it up, they don't necessarily take up their full entitlement, which is also something that we'd have to think about in terms of any modelling on costings.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "So, half the children are in non-working families.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "It's because of the requirement that, in a two-parent household, both parents must be in work.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Yes. Two parent. Okay.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "One of the points that the committee made very strongly in our report on the Bill was that we wanted to see a much more child-centred focus, and one of the issues that came out in scrutiny was whether, actually, three and four-year-olds were the right age to be actually targeting if we're looking at things like child development. Have you given any consideration to the actual age group that's covered when we know that, for many children, it's the first 1,000 days that makes that fundamental difference?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "We are aware that there is a case that says that two years old is a very important time. We are looking at that as part of the overall longer review, yes. We are aware of the information and what you're saying about the younger the better.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Dawn.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, my final question, Chair, thank you, is about the parent, childcare and employment programme, which is jointly funded by the European social fund and Welsh Government. It has been quite successful, in terms of its numbers anyway, in getting economically inactive parents into work. What are the plans for this programme, if and when we leave the EU and we lose the ESF funding for that?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the programme has recently been extended, with delivery continuing until June 2022, with additional ESF funding of £5.6 million. That's recently happened, and obviously this programme provides intensive employment to parents who are not in education, employment or training or economically inactive and where the childcare is the main barrier, and it has been a very, very successful programme. So, the UK has guaranteed funding for all EU projects approved by December 2020, and this includes the PaCE programme. I think there was also another—. I only heard it verbally. I heard some other guarantees on the radio recently from the UK Treasury about guaranteeing some of these funds. I don't know whether anybody else heard that. But the Welsh Government can only draw on the UK Government guarantee for claims that aren't paid by the European Commission, and so the current arrangements are staying in place.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Until when, sorry?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, June 2022.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, I see. Yes. So, that's when all the current commitments expire, basically. Yes. So, we don't know—. To do that it would have to be part of Government planning in terms of—",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, we don't know what's happening with that—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "—what would happen beyond that.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "—funding, but there have been some promises from the UK Government recently, but nothing definite.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we're not holding our breath.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "No.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Siân's got some specific questions now around the Childcare Funding (Wales) Act 2019.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "As we know, of course, the work with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs has ended, and I know you weren't the Minister who initiated this process, but what exactly has gone wrong? What are these issues that have come to light that have made you suspend that? It's very frustrating for us, as a committee, who scrutinised that extensively and raised a lot of concerns about that. And a lot of time has been spent talking about this funding Bill, and money—£1 million, I understand—has been wasted, if you like, unnecessarily. So, what exactly has gone wrong? Why aren't you discussing these things with HMRC?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. So, thank you for that explanation.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I've got more to say as well.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but for your transparency around your particular view that it needs to be more flexible and expanded upon and, therefore, going down the HMRC route was—",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "It would have restricted us a lot.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. We knew that from the beginning. I mean, that's, you know—. So, it was a principle decision rather than any sort of technical matters to do with the Welsh language standards. That's been cited as one kind of—. But I'm really understanding more now that, really, what it's about is that you want to have a more flexible, and expand on the offer and that this would curtail—going through HMRC would put limits on that.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "That is one of the reasons, but there were issues about the Welsh language, which we can go into in detail, if you'd like. There were some issues about that. They would be able to process things bilingually, and I think that was probably told to the committee when we looked at the HMRC. But, in terms of the Welsh language standards that the Minister has to use, there would be some difficulties in them doing it.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "But would you say that your main change came about because you wanted to be more flexible rather than any difficulties—",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "One of the major reasons, I think—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Good.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "But there are—. As I say, there are other reasons. Those technical reasons probably do end up being quite important—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "But the committee was told by the previous Minister that HMRC wouldn't have any problem at all with delivering according to the Welsh language standards.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Do you want to add something to this?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, in terms of some of the technical issues we had, if you want to start with the bilingual provision and the Welsh language standards, HMRC do provide a bilingual service at the moment for their customers in line with their Welsh language scheme, and I think we can all appreciate that schemes are quite different from the requirements of the standards. And there were some issues when we got into the detail of the standards that the Welsh Ministers are required to deliver to that caused some concerns in terms of how HMRC were going to do it, particularly in terms of the multiple IT systems that go into building up the childcare services. So, for example, there are a number of what are called 'special characters' in the Welsh alphabet, such as the to bach, for example. The HMRC IT system has some issues with that.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Yes, well, with due respect, the to bach has always been there—",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, yes, I completely agree. Unfortunately, however—",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "—and HMRC would have been able to tell you, really early on, you would have thought, that it was—. I don't really want to go into it, because I think we've got to the crux of why HMRC was dropped. I think it's been dropped because Julie feels that the offer needs to be more flexible, and I can understand why you would say that.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "If we bring in training and education, for example, we wouldn't be able to do that via the HMRC, it would have to be done by the local authorities. Foster parents have to be done via the local authorities. Any people of immigration status of no resource from public funds, that would have to be done via the local authorities. And with the local authorities also wanting to do it—. I mean, there are other things with using HMRC—if any changes were made with the English offer, for example, because this would be delivered via HMRC with the English offer, that would cause difficulties for the Welsh offer. So, we wanted something more flexible. I don't know if there's anything more you want to add on that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "The only thing I'd add is that—and, again, I think the Minister has referred to this—the costs that HMRC presented us with at the end of the discovery phase were significantly higher than the costs that had initially been outlined and that we outlined to the committee in the regulatory impact assessment. So, our conclusion is that we can deliver a cheaper system and a system that has the flexibility that the Deputy Minister has referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC. So, there is an important issue around value for money as well and making sure that the investment that we're making into developing the national system is one that—that, in a sense, that investment stays in Wales. So, obviously, the money that we're paying over to HMRC to run the system would be supporting HMRC and their employees wherever they may be based, many of them not based in Wales; investment in local authorities to administer the system means that we're retaining more of that investment here.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Well, I congratulate you on persuading local government and WLGA to change their minds, because they actually told this committee that they favoured the HMRC option—and this is only going back a few months—because it will remove—and this is quoting them— 'it will remove the administrative burden of receiving applications and checking eligibility from local authorities'— blah, blah, blah, blah. So, they've obviously changed their minds as well, which is, you know—. I congratulate you on that, but it does present us as a committee with a little bit of a problem, really, because, if we're told one thing a few months ago and then we're told something completely different today, you know, evidence—we have to go on evidence that we've heard, and the evidence has changed now.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, during the period since it was discussed on the committee, the work with the HMRC has helped highlight to us where we needed to go. So, I think we did learn a lot and it certainly has helped show to us where we think is the best place to go. I would like to pay tribute to the local authorities, because they've been great partners in this and they're very positive about moving forward keeping the work. And there's also a feeling that, because they are so much closer to the local public than HMRC is, they're able to build up links with families and help with some of these difficult issues. Because I'm sure many of you may have had individual cases—I certainly have—where there's been quite a lot of complexity about helping people fill in the forms and look at their eligibility. So, I say well done to the local authorities. And thanks to the HMRC, because we've had nothing but a very positive relationship with them.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Suzy, you've got a supplementary.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Ms Daniels, you referred to value for money. How much is it actually going to cost to change this system from being a temporary arrangement with local authorities to a permanent one? And how much more is it going to cost for the more flexible system that you have in mind? They're not going to do this for nothing. How much extra are you giving them, and will they use it for this? How are you ensuring it's used for this?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, at the moment, local—. So, two things. Just to start by saying the eligibility checking process is not undertaken by all 22 local authorities.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "No, no, I realise that. Yes, I got all that.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, part of the reason for using 10 is to try to ensure that we build economies of scale and that we have a more efficient operation. Those authorities that undertake that function are given a specific grant in order to do that. That grant is ring-fenced to that purpose.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Could you give us an idea of the price tag?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "At the moment, it's about £2.5 million.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Okay, just as a round figure—that's fine.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Just for the administration. They get separate funding for the childcare, obviously.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So that, as I said, is a ring-fenced sum that they use to administer the offer. We are now starting the detailed work to define the new system requirements so that we will have a single application process across Wales, moving forward. As part of that work, we'll need to consider the detailed costings, but our initial estimate suggests that it would be less than the cost proposed by HMRC.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Okay, when those costings are worked up, perhaps we could have a note comparing the two figures.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, we would be very happy to share more detail on that.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Siân.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "If it became a universal offer, would those costs reduce? Would there be so much bureaucracy involved in checking eligibility and stuff if every child was open to the offer?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "So, clearly, if every child is eligible, then a large part of the process falls away in terms of the need to verify income and so on. That doesn't mean that there's no administration. For example, with the foundation phase, which is universally available, there is an application process and there is an administrative function that sits alongside that. At this point in time, I couldn't give you any indication of—",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "But it would be substantially less, wouldn't it, because they wouldn't have to do all these eligibility checks and all those things?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "They wouldn't have to do the eligibility checks, but they would still have to make payments to the childcare providers and make sure they were paying for the right number of hours in respect of each child. So, parents would still need to tell them where their child was going, and there would still need to be some work alongside that.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Siân, do you want to ask about the Welsh language?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we've—. I'm happy with that.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Really—?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think that that was the real reason why the change happened.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "One of the reasons.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Nevertheless, the committee was given very concrete assurances that the Welsh language side of this was going to be covered off. Have you got anything that you want to add on that? Obviously, for us as a committee, we believe what we're told when we are given assurances. So, that's quite concerning for us, really, that that suddenly then became an issue, when both HMRC and the Minister at the time told us that this wasn't going to be a problem.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "So, I think it's the point that I was talking about earlier. There's a difference between a bilingual service in the context of what HMRC understood that to be, in the context of their scheme, and the very detail of the standards when they got into their IT systems.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Shouldn't that have been something that was worked out at the beginning?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Possibly, but they did need to do quite detailed work, not just into their own IT systems, but the feed-in systems from the Home Office, the Department for Work and Pensions and the Post Office as well, to understand the full complexity of how the standards would comply across all of that. They do provide a bilingual service. It was just some of the specific details of the requirements placed on the Welsh Ministers, because it is the Welsh Ministers' standards that they would need to deliver against that they were struggling with.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Right, okay.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but those standards were there right from the very beginning.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that the committee would feel that that should have been bottomed out at the beginning, really.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Nothing has changed in terms of the standards.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, just before we move on to Flying Start, can I just ask: the Minister mentioned a longer term review of the childcare offer. Are you able to give us any indication of when that will report, please?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Would we have any idea?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "We haven't set out a definitive timescale on that as of yet because we've been focusing very much on getting the review in terms of training, education and on the cusp of returning to work up and running. But sometime next year.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, it will report sometime next year.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes.",
"speaker": "Nicola Edwards"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We'll move on now to Flying Start and questions from Suzy Davies.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. Can I just begin by asking you how you respond to the assertion that children from the most disadvantaged backgrounds do better in a mixed socioeconomic environment than in a targeted environment?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think that's what Flying Start does, isn't it? Yes, I would have thought that was likely.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the reason I'm asking you that, of course, is because this committee has suggested, perhaps, changes to the outreach system to target more disadvantaged children, and not necessarily capture people who happen to be in a geographic area.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, you're saying that you feel that a universal offer in certain areas is not advantageous to—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I'm asking you, really. If it's the case that we're only going after disadvantaged children, which would take very precise targeting—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm not only going after disadvantaged children. I feel that we should be offering something for all children, and our considerations are for all children. The reason we've targeted Flying Start is because it would be great if we had enough money to have Flying Start throughout the whole of Wales, but we just don't have that sort of money. Because I think Flying Start has proved to be a great—very successful.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm going to ask you a few more questions on that. Because just in response to this committee's 2018 report, you did say that: 'defined geographical targeting of Flying Start support will be considered as part of the Welsh Government’s work on the Early Years system.' That suggests you still have geographic targeting in mind. So, if you're looking at a very mixed source of economic experience for children, what are the geographic boundaries you're considering?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "At the moment, Flying Start can go beyond the geographical boundaries, with the extension—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "With limits, yes.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes. I think they can use 10 per cent of their income to go beyond the geographical boundaries, and many of them have done that. But, obviously, there are four elements to Flying Start, and only those geographical areas have got the four elements, but there could be the opportunity of extending some of that beyond the Flying Start geographical areas. We're looking at this.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I accept what you say about the current system—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I believe it's much more—. I believe very strongly in having a universal system, where everybody is able to access it.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "I appreciate that as well. But, obviously, there are huge cost implications for that—unless you're giving us some insight into what you're going to say next week, I don't know. But actually, defining anything geographically, which now seems to be fairly arbitrary, because it's not targeted purely at disadvantaged children—on what basis are we choosing the geographic areas we are choosing at the moment?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, they're chosen then because of the benefit take-up in those particular areas. So, it's reaching some of the poorest children, but not all of the poorest children, but it's reaching the poorest children in a way that is not stigmatising, and where the services are open to everybody, and I think that's very important.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, having established that, we have fairly recent research here that a third of children living in poverty in Wales are already falling behind at the age of five—that suggests that two thirds of them aren't, but it's still a very worrying statistic. Not all children live in Flying Start areas; how are you going to reach that third who, even at such an early age, are already falling behind? How many of them are in Flying Start areas?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the actual number of children in poverty, the most disadvantaged that we reach through the Flying Start areas—I think it's about 46 per cent. Is that—? Do you know the actual percentage?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "It's about a quarter of total children are in there, but—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "So, just to give you a few of the numbers, there are just over 36,000 children benefiting from Flying Start services. That equates to about 23 per cent of children, overall, in Wales. And because of the nature of the benefit take-up data, and because we don't assess eligibility within a Flying Start area, we can't be absolutely certain how many children within a Flying Start area are actually in poverty. So, it's an estimate, and it's a range, and the range is that around 45 per cent of children in Flying Start areas would be in poverty.FootnoteLink",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Well, that's interesting. I would have expected it to be much higher than that, particularly if the geographic areas had been targeted on benefit claims, effectively. Are you disappointed that the proportion is—basically, 55 per cent of those children aren't living in poverty. That's what you're saying, isn't it?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I'd offer two observations. One: the nature of poverty in Wales is actually, generally, more dispersed than perhaps sometimes is appreciated. Yes, we have very concentrated areas of—",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Well, actually, we do appreciate it, which is why we're asking this question. [Laughter.]",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So that's one issue to think about. Sorry, I've lost my train of thought now, in terms of the second—oh, sorry: whether you're in or out of poverty is, in one sense, very black/white. But in reality of course—in terms of the income definition, it's very black/white. But, of course, there will be a large number of people who are just above, but also families who move in and out, so it's quite a transient population in some senses, in terms of people having incomes that aren't stable, people having jobs that go with that that aren't stable. So, at any one point in time, you're only sort of capturing a snapshot of what's happening. In reality, it's a bit more complex than that.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "I accept that. I mentioned a third of children living in poverty had fallen behind at five; by the age of 14, half that number is still falling behind, so something has happened between that third and that half to improve the life chances of those individual children or young people. Is that attributable to Flying Start? Can you say that candidly? Or is it a happy coincidence, where there could be some causation, but we can’t prove it?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We certainly think that Flying Start is making a positive impact, both on the point at which children go to school, and then subsequently. And I think as the committee knows, we’ve been working with the SAIL—secure anonymised information linkage—and the databank there to look at how we can do longitudinal studies to track children’s progress, to look at the extent to which outcomes are effected by Flying Start interventions.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "We probably don't have time for this level of detail today, but half of those children are still behind at the age of 14. So, I'd be curious to know if there's any immediate plans to help them catch up or make sure that their successors don't fall into the same position, the same trap. Have you got anything high level that you can mention at this stage?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Just in terms of what we’re thinking of doing with Flying Start—. The key thing about Flying Start is the collaborative way that it works with the health visitors and all the speech and language therapists and childcare, and we’re looking at ways of trying to get some of those elements to reach a wider group. And as I said, we talked about earlier the eight earlier years transformation pathfinders that we talked about in the local authorities—we talked about that earlier—so, that’s where we’re going to look at Flying Start and how we can try to make it more accessible to more children. So, we do want to extend the benefits of Flying Start. We do want to make it available to more children, and that’s what we’re looking at. And we’re looking at that in those eight pathfinder areas. And you'll have to wait to see what we come up with—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "No, no—we'll ask you more about that in due course. Actually, that job would be an awful lot easier if you knew how many children within Flying Start areas were taking up all four elements. Why don't you know that? Why is that data not collected?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Do we know why?",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, the approach that we’ve taken to evaluation in Flying Start—. The committee will have seen the various evaluation reports that have been published, and I know that you’re familiar with the work that, as I say, we’ve been doing with SAIL. We’re currently focusing on individual data collection, and through that we want to be able to report on levels of engagement, but also outcomes for children. We’ve been piloting that new approach in six local authorities. We hope to be able to extend that, and we hope to be able to provide more evidence about the interventions and the impact that they then achieve.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "Okay. All right. Because, to be honest, I would want to know if a child’s chances have improved primarily because they’re getting good-quality childcare or primarily because their parents are taking up parenting courses. There’s got to be some indication somewhere in here about which of these four elements is making the greatest difference.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I would just caution in terms of expectations. It will always be quite difficult to definitively provide answers to that, because many parents will be taking these things up in combination. So, disentangling which has had the effect is, obviously, quite tricky—in particular, all parents will be getting the enhanced health visiting. Not every parent will take up parenting support, not every child will need speech and language help, so—",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "And that's why we need to know who is.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Disentangling what's helped and what hasn't I think will always be quite a difficult thing to do.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "But it would also be helpful to know which combinations work best as well. Just on the final point from me—yes, 88 per cent of Flying Start's childcare offers were taken up, but we've had some local authorities where the take-up has dropped dramatically. I think Denbighshire was down a fair bit, wasn't it, and Ceredigion, I think, had had a poor take-up. Have you got any indication why? I'm thinking of Denbighshire particularly, where there is a tradition—taking up third-party childcare is cultural there, whereas in Ceredigion, for example, there are far fewer places available in the first place and less of a tradition of children taking up childcare. But what's happened in Denbighshire?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "I think there are a number of different reasons why parents do decide not to use a facility, and, obviously, that always exists, but each local authority has a Flying Start account manager in place to support them in the delivery of the programme and the account management activities, and there are formal account meetings that look at this sort of thing once a year—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "So, what have they told you?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "—and these meetings will take place in November 2019. That's when the specific delivery issues will be discussed in depth, so that's when we'll find out what has happened and why there may have been a drop.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just ask about the timing of that? Because if you already know that there's a 6 per cent drop, why will it take the best part of a year to—well, November's only next month, to be fair, now, but why will it take that length of time to establish why there's a drop? You'd have thought if you'd seen a trend like that—",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Obviously, they meet at certain times and they will assess what's happened. That seems quite normal to me.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, but we'll get a note on that, is it? It's just that they knew this six months ago.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "In November, we'll have more information about this, so we can let you have information about that.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "That would be really helpful, just for—. I'm sure constituents in Denbighshire will want to know about that. And then finally from me, Chair, if I may, Flying Start beneficiaries—it's got a specific explanation of what a Flying Start beneficiary is, but I think, particularly in view of the evidence we've heard on this committee about parental support in connection with the removal of the defence of reasonable chastisement, for example, this committee is very concerned about what's out there in terms of parental support. Eighteen per cent of Flying Start beneficiaries have parents attending the informal parenting courses; that's 18 per cent, that's not very high. Any idea about what you might be able to do to encourage take-up or is that very locally decided?",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "If I can add to that, obviously, somebody only has to attend one course—we've got no way of knowing whether parents are completing the whole of a course, really.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Obviously, the offer is there for parents to take up the parenting courses, and there are four elements to Flying Start, and maybe some of the parents don't feel that they want to or need to. I don't think we've got any more evidence on that for take-up—",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, the reach of this is going to be important, because we need the reassurance on the back of the legislation that is going through at the moment.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Absolutely, yes.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Parenting courses are, of course, one aspect of parenting support, but not the only one, and they'll be appropriate for a lot of parents, but for some not. What all parents do get at an enhanced level in Flying Start is the support of the health visitor, so the health visitor is, in effect, providing a significant amount of support for parenting. Now, that can be practical things like weaning or potty training et cetera, but, actually, it's also about managing a child's behaviour, managing how a parent develops that bonding and that attachment with their child. So, the role of the health visitor in supporting a parent to be a parent is absolutely critical, and every parent in Flying Start areas will be getting that enhanced level of support. Of course, it's not just in Flying Start areas now, because with the Healthy Child Wales programme, the universal programme of health visiting visits, we have a much more consistent and standardised set of visits and engagements with parents that cover a lot of these areas. In addition, I'd also add that when parents use the childcare in Flying Start, or childcare generally outside of Flying Start areas, there is often a lot of working between the childcare setting and the parent over parenting—again, managing a child's behaviour, managing any issues that the childcare worker thinks are emerging in terms of whether it's eating or, again, toileting. So, parenting courses are important, but it's really essential that we see those in the broader context of the different ways in which lots of professionals interact with parents, providing them with advice, guidance and support, and actually what works for parents in terms of how they take on board some of that advice and that help. Sometimes a formal course is quite off-putting for parents, but the sort of quiet word, the top tips, the advice that a friendly professional gives can be very, very impactful.",
"speaker": "Jo-Anne Daniels"
},
{
"content": "That's a really helpful answer. It does raise, unfortunately, another question about whether a health visitor in those circumstances might find themselves in a difficult position if they're dealing with a parent who has smacked a child, but we'll leave that for Stage 3.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "We'll be dealing with that, I'm sure.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "But thank you; that was a helpful answer. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Suzy Davies AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions from Members? No. Okay. Well, can I thank the Minister and the officials for attending this morning? As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting, but thank you again for your attendance. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much.",
"speaker": "Julie Morgan AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Item 4 is papers to note. There's just one today: the letter from the WLGA regarding the Childcare Funding (Wales) Act 2019 in response to our letter asking about the change in approach. Item 5 then. Can I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting? Are Members content? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
education_8 | Committee | [
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"3",
"19"
]
],
"topic": "The advantage and weakness of Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"20",
"30"
]
],
"topic": "The ambition in higher education Act and the improvement in PCET Bill"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"31",
"53"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about HEFCW's powers of intervention"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"54",
"70"
]
],
"topic": "Concerns of the fee and access plans"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"77",
"99"
]
],
"topic": "Discuss about risk management"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"100",
"113"
]
],
"topic": "Quality assurance methods discussion"
},
{
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"114",
"118"
]
],
"topic": "Discussion about overseas providers"
}
] | [
{
"answer": "The meeting between the Children, Young People and Education Committee and the Welsh Government was considered as a post-legislative scrutiny session on the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. To start with, Kirsty Williams AM suggested although the Bill was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, it was still valuable to discuss in the current context. The Act had partly fulfilled the Government's objectives in regulating institutions, safeguarding contribution, managing fair access and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. Kirsty Williams AM also pointed out that new methods should be included to further regulate, co-ordinating and fund the sector. When it comes to the future of the Act, the meeting agreed that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of the civic mission, and students' interests must be fully preserved. Meanwhile, some participants argued that HEFCW's powers were inflexible and fee plans from private providers were hard to regulate. Kirsty Williams AM agreed that a more flexible connection between the regulating sectors and the others should be attained. Besides, the meeting also talked about managing risk and agreed that the Act, in the future should include more alternative providers for students who were receiving long-term support. In the end, Kirsty Williams AM praised the contribution from overseas providers in supporting transnational education in Wales and agreed that rights of students in Wales should always be put in the first place.",
"query": "Summarize the whole meeting."
}
] | [
{
"answer": "Although highly challenged by the participants, Kirsty Williams AM argued that the Act had fulfilled the Government's objectives in regulating institutions, safeguarding contribution, managing fair access and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. These strategic aims were still really important but in the new situation, it was required to recognise the higher education and research Bill across the border in England. In this case, to continue fulfilling its national outcomes, the Act should evolve by implementing new student support measures.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the advantage of the Act?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"4",
"4"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "The Act was considered that the legislation itself was not strong enough by Sian Gwenllian AM and Kirsty Williams AM agreed that remit letters were a really important way in which national priorities could be preserved. Moreover, it was stressed that it was important to make the distinction between the scale of private providers, and what could be termed as 'unregulated providers' in the Welsh system. In this case, they should be designated on a case-by-case basis and always be able to protect the interests of the students. Besides, Kirsty Williams AM pointed out that the government had not identified an urgent reason to designate different types of courses as qualifying courses for the purposes of a fee limit, but in fact, the regulation for each type of them did differ from each other.",
"query": "What did the meeting discuss about the weakness of the Act?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"5",
"13"
],
[
"19",
"19"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "To answer this question, Kirsty Williams AM first introduced the achievements that the new system of student finance did again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have in the different situations, as a direct result of the changing scenario. Moreover, it was a great success to see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement.",
"query": "What had the Act and the Bill already achieved?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"22",
"22"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Currently, the government planned to use the remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders' pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, it had been a success to use the remit letter and some funding to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. To conclude, Kirsty Williams AM suggested that the new PCET reforms were aimed to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encouraged collaboration and co-operation across the sector.",
"query": "How could the Act and the Bill be improved?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"24",
"24"
],
[
"28",
"28"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Dawn Bowden AM challenged that informal measures or actions had been taken in their role as regulator, and Kirsty Williams AM explained that the commission was expected to be able to have a series of abilities to intervene, from the soft, flexible type, which was non-punitive but actually allowed people to participate in it. Meanwhile, Huw Morris suggested that specific mechanisms and informal interactions with FE college principals, with the work-based learning provider network, etc had been used to hopefully achieve some alignment in the tertiary sector. Also, as a loan-based system of student finance, a system of block grant allocations and conditions could be attached to those grant allocations by HEFCW when things went wrong.",
"query": "What was the current situation about HEFCW's powers of intervention?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"34",
"40"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Huw Morris started by introducing the focus on learning from other nations to track the information flows and help the universities in return. Meanwhile, Kirsty Williams AM suggested a balance to be achieved by each part of the participants. However, Dawn Bowden AM questioned about HEFCW's use of informal measures which might not be as prevalent as they currently are. Kirsty Williams AM answered that it should be remembered that HEFCW would surely be replaced, and a more flexible way would be adopted to control the financial codes of universities to assure the quality of the provision.",
"query": "What did the meeting talk about to control HEFCW's powers of intervention?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"44",
"52"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "To answer Hefin David AM's question, Kirsty Williams AM first stressed that the success of the fee and access plan relied on the understanding of whether an annual basis was an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether a long period was suitable for the Act. Sometimes it was hard to make a final judgment since the futures of the students were unpredictable but the fee and access plans could always be one of the drivers for some of the improvements. In the meantime, constant efforts had been put into communications with a range of stakeholders to continue developing legislative proposals to assure the fee.",
"query": "What did Hefin David AM concern about the fee and access plans?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"58",
"68"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Hefin David AM questioned about the right balance between institutions with the strongest track records that were more highly regulated and those riskier private alternative providers. Kirsty Williams AM argued that more attention should be paid to focus on the inherent quality of those charitable status which was regarded as a key reference point in the operation. Although there were some concerns of some private providers, particularly in England, they should not be treated the same. In this case, the government would regulate them on a course-by-course basis. Moreover, quality provision should be included and alternative providers would be given more attention.",
"query": "How did Kirsty Williams AM plan to manage risks?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"77",
"86"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams AM first admitted that it was true that the Bill did not directly address issues around governance in the sector. However, establishing a more direct relationship with chairs of universities, especially one-to-one relationships with them, had been attached much importance and it was crucial to help the government understand each aspect of issues in universities. Moreover, ways to make sure that the governing bodies were diverse and it was able to include both student voice as well as the staff voice in governance going forward would be discussed in the future. Kirsty Williams AM stressed that there were plans to engage with each of the governing bodies since the situation was getting far more complex.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams AM react in response to concerns of the governance of universities?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"89",
"96"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Sian Gwenllian AM argued that there was evidence regarding the difficulties caused by HEFCW having a legal duty to quality-assure all the provisions in two further education colleges. This process was regarded as an anomaly or an unintended consequence of the Act. Sian Gwenllian AM wanted Kirsty Williams AM to explain the situation in that instance and further methods to assure governing qualities.",
"query": "How did Sian Gwenllian AM ask about the quality assurance?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"101",
"101"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams AM first explained that it was a bit difficult to put herself in the position of the former Minister but it was clear that it should not be intended. However, she explained that the Act was built on what were the quality assessment arrangements in the 1992 Act, which required HEFCW to secure arrangements for the assessment of the quality of education provided by funding institutions. So, as a consequence of that approach, HEFCW's quality assessment duty currently encompassesed all the education provided by or on behalf of a regulated institution. Huw Morris also helped to explain that a lot of joint operation was required during the process and the new Bill would try to make that clearer.",
"query": "How did Kirsty Williams AM answer Sian Gwenllian AM's question about quality assurance?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"102",
"105"
]
]
},
{
"answer": "Kirsty Williams AM shared that the government had listened to stakeholders' concerns regarding proposals to introduce a single quality assessment body. And she stressed that the principles underlying any assurance regime would need to be coherent, effective and comprehensive. Besides, the quality framework should cover higher education to make it compatible with ENQA, which was considered as highly important going forward, since it would be compatible with current UK-wide baseline standards to avoid specific problems for the HE sector in Wales. Although it might cause a stir, a change must be made in the new situation. Huw Morris also suggested that greater synergy would be encouraged in the ways in which quality assurance and enhancement was undertaken in different areas of activity.",
"query": "What did Kirsty Williams AM say about her plan for quality assurance?",
"relevant_text_span": [
[
"110",
"113"
]
]
}
] | [
{
"content": "Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and there is no substitute. Janet Finch-Saunders is joining us from the Assembly offices in Colwyn Bay via video conference. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a post-legislative scrutiny session on the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Huw Morris, who is director of the skills, higher education and lifelong learning group in Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending, and thank you for the paper that you provided in advance. I will just start the questioning by asking whether you are planning to repeal the 2015 higher education Act, or will it be amended by the post-compulsory education and training Bill?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you very much, Chair. I'm very pleased to be with the committee again this morning, although it's in slightly unusual circumstances. As a piece of post-legislative scrutiny, this was a Bill that was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, but I think it is really valuable work in the context of the question you just set out: what can we learn from the implementation of this piece of legislation as we move forward with our reform journey and with this Government and my proposals to introduce a new commission for tertiary education? There is much, at the moment, that lies within the 2015 Act that we will look to bring forward into the new legislation, but there are certainly experiences—and I'm sure we'll come on to some of the evidence that has been received about what's worked, what perhaps hasn't worked—that we all want to reflect on and be mindful of as we take forward the new Bill, including the report of this committee as part of it. So, it is our intention that this Bill will be superceded by the new PCETR Bill.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. We've got a series of questions now from Siân Gwenllian.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Good morning. Do you believe that the Act has fulfilled all the Government's objectives? Where are the weaknesses?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Diolch yn fawr, Siân. As I've said, it's a bit difficult to place myself in the mind of the previous Minister when this legislation was first envisaged and then taken through. You'll be aware that there were four main reasons for the introduction of the Bill: around regulation of institutions in Wales; safeguarding the contribution made to public good arising from Welsh Government's financial support for the sector; maintaining a focus on fair access; and preserving and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. I think the evidence that has been received by the committee to date shows that there are different views about the effectiveness of whether all four strategic aims have been achieved. I think those strategic aims are still really, really important and certainly will underpin our thought process going forward, but we have to recognise the higher education and research Bill across the border in England, the implementation of new student support measures in Wales, as well as the report that was done by Ellen Hazelkorn, I think, means it is appropriate that we move forward with different proposals, not just regulation of the HE sector but the post-compulsory sector as a whole. We will look to see what we can do to strengthen or whether there is more that we need to do to achieve those four objectives, because I think those four objectives are still very, very relevant. But we have to have legislation now that is fit for the circumstances we currently find ourselves in and, hopefully, futureproofs us for how we want to see the sector develop in the future.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Do you feel perhaps that the legislation itself hasn't been strong enough, and that you then have had to drive some of these objectives through the annual remit letter, rather than through legislation, and that's why the strengthening is required?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Certainly, I see the remit letter as a really, really important way in which national priorities and the priorities of an elected Government can be clearly stated, communicated to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, and then HEFCW use their powers to ensure that that happens. So, certainly, I see the remit letter as being a very important mechanism for ensuring, as I said, that those national priorities are clearly articulated, and then change happens.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Has the current legislation been framed around institutional autonomy so that it's not possible for institutions to fulfil any national outcomes, and is that going to be an element of the new Bill?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, certainly, the 2015 Act contains numerous provisions that protect universities' privileges and autonomy. And that's really important, and those are principles that I am committed to in any legislation that I bring forward. We'll certainly be looking to see how we can carry those protections into the forthcoming Bill, but, at the same time, we do have to ensure appropriate regulation and accountability of institutions for their public funding and the privileges that they enjoy. And I think there are a number of ways in which that can happen. We have a very positive working relationship with the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, and I am very fortunate to have a very positive working relationship with the sector. The remit letters are a really important way in which we can lay out those national priorities. I don't think there's anything in the legislation per se that prevents those national priorities being articulated and being acted upon.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I don't think that's what HEFCW has said in their evidence. They've said that the Bill has been framed in a way where it's not possible for institutions to fulfil any requirements. You're talking about the remit letter; maybe you need to have that discussion there, but, in terms of the Bill itself, you can't make them fulfil any national outcomes. Shouldn't there be a discussion looking to move in a direction where there are national outcomes being set through legislation, because there is public money going into that?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I don't know whether we need national outcomes through legislation, because those national priorities, potentially, will change over time. What is really important, and what we will be seeking to do in the new legislation, is look to move to a system of outcome agreements. So, there is a very clear expectation that the commission will have, in regulating the sector, and co-ordinating and funding the sector, to create a system of outcome agreements, where those outputs will reflect national priorities, and that's one of the things that we've consulted on, and will look to take forward in the new legislation.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. That's clear enough. What about private providers? The Act, or the Act as it stands, makes it a requirement for a regulated institution to be a charity, and that means it's not possible to regulate alternative private providers under the Act, even though they can provide higher education in Wales. What is your view on this, and will the new legislation continue with the requirement of being a charity?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, I think, first of all, it's important to make the distinction between the scale of private providers, and what could be termed as 'unregulated providers' in the Welsh system, as opposed to the English system. And I think that's a really important distinction to make. So, currently, under the current legislation, unregulated providers can only access Welsh Government student support if they're designated on a case-by-case basis. So, we do have a circumstance where—and a process in place, to manage this. So, we have a specific designation policy, which is operated on our behalf by HEFCW. Only six organisations were designated on a case-by-case basis in the 2018-19 academic year, so the scale here is small. Three of those were further education colleges. So, when we talk about a private provider, perhaps people would have a view of a private university, but, actually, three of those were FE colleges, which we would all be familiar with. And the three private providers were the Centre for Alternative Technology, the training arm of the Church in Wales and the Newport and District Group Training Association. All three of those are actual charities. So, in order for their courses to be specifically designated, the three crucial questions that those providers have to answer are: quality—is what they’re providing to students of a good quality; the financial viability of the institution, again, to try to protect the interests of the students who may find themselves embarking on a course in an institution that isn’t viable; as well as their contribution to private—sorry, not to private good—public good. And we are considering how that part of the sector will be regulated in the forthcoming legislation. But, Huw, I don't know if there's anything else to add?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, just to say that there are a very small number of private providers, as the Minister has outlined, and, in comparison with England, where I think the last figures said that there were between 300 and 400 private providers in England, you get a sense of the differences that exist there. And, if you look at what happened over recent years, it has been those small private providers across the UK who have been most financially challenged and a number of them have stopped their operations, with consequences for the students. So, we’ve been keen to put students at the front of things to make sure that the institutions that they’re enrolling with are strong and have good quality.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Okay. So, what you're saying is that you will continue with a charitable status, or not—",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "At this stage—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "—or are you still thinking about it?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, at this stage, I think the charitable status will continue to be an important part of what we will take forward.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Just turning finally to part-time fees and postgraduate fees, do you have an intention to regulate this part in the new legislation?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I have to say that, at present, we've not identified an urgent reason to designate these courses as qualifying courses for the purposes of a fee limit. And there are a number of reasons for that. Actually, the current Act—the 2015 Act—does not permit the fee regulation of postgraduate courses, other than PGCE courses for IT purposes. In the case of part-time courses, I'm currently content that fee levels are not exceeding the amount of student support made available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I think what's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that under review. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move on now to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 university funding system limited Welsh Government’s policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plans?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Of course, the Act was introduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert over institutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding—. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers of intervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'd describe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities? Is this something you wish you could do?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders' pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've been able to use the remit letter and some funding to be able to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. These are national priorities and we're acting upon them and we're using the multiple levers we have at the moment to engage in universities. And, I have to say, universities have risen to that challenge, and I'm very grateful to them for doing that.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. Are there plans to give the proposed new PCET funding body more effective policy levers to align the sector to the social, economic and civic needs of Wales? And, if so, how will this be done?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, as I said in answer earlier, I'm determined that we ensure a sense of civic mission for the entirety of the sector, including our institutes of higher education. You'll be aware, Janet, that, in the consultation exercises that have been undertaken by the Government so far on PCET reform, we will be introducing more formal outcome agreements, whereby institutions might be given by the commission very clear expectations of how they're expected to contribute to national priorities.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Thanks. We've heard that the HE Act, by focusing on individual institutions, did not encourage collaboration, even for widening access activity. Was this a missed opportunity and how will this be taken forward in the PCET Bill?",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "I think we can strengthen our sector by closer collaboration. I think what sets us apart in Wales is that this Government is determined to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encourages collaboration and co-operation, which is in stark contrast to the marketisation and the competition that we see being regulated for and legislated for across the border in England. That's one of the reasons why we are going to introduce the new PCET reforms—to create collaboration, not just between different higher education institutes but actually across the sector. So, this is a prime opportunity where we can create a framework that demands and encourages collaboration, not just, as I said, in between individual institutions but across the entirety of the sector. We're doing that because that means we can avoid duplication, we can fill gaps that there currently are and we can create a system that allows for a seamless passage for students to move between the different parts of post-compulsory education that are currently available, where, sometimes, those students find barriers.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, Janet?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you—that's great, thank you.",
"speaker": "Janet Finch-Saunders AM"
},
{
"content": "We've got some questions now around HEFCW's powers of intervention from Dawn Bowden.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. We received substantial evidence from HEFCW suggesting that powers were inflexible and hard to use—I think HEFCW called them 'threatening'—saying that they make sanctions difficult to use and so on. Are you satisfied that HEFCW's powers are useful on a preventative day-to-day basis?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "If I may disagree slightly, I don't think their powers are frightening. It's very clear what powers are available to HEFCW, and they're certainly more than just the ability to, maybe, lean on an institution. Clearly, there is a system by which there is the ability to, you know, ramp up and escalate levels of intervention in the sector by HEFCW, but I certainly wouldn't describe them as inflexible or not having weight.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I think they were saying it was difficult to use for swift interventions—they found it a bit cumbersome. They explained to us that they often take informal measures or actions in their role as regulator, and they've explained that the small size of the sector enables good relationships to be developed. How can such measures work in the tertiary education body when there clearly will be many more than the 10 providers?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, looking ahead to the new Bill, I would want to see and be very keen to ensure that there are sufficiently flexible—did you use the word soft—and soft regulatory powers that the commission could exercise. Those powers, for instance, could include the ability to offer advice and guidance, rather than, maybe, punitive interventions, and powers to undertake enhanced monitoring of institutions to ensure compliance with regulatory conditions. So, I would expect the commission to be able to have a series of abilities to intervene, from the soft, flexible type, which is non-punitive but actually allows people to go in and support institutions, through to something that would be, as I said, more punitive, if they felt that an institution was in danger of not providing quality or financial failure.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just come in there, on the point that was made? The issue that seemed to me to come from HEFCW and from the universities is that the dial seems to have only three steps. So, rather than having a graduated series of actions that they can take, it seems to step from—what did he call it—a 'meeting without coffee' to—",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "That's a very HEFCW thing to say.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "—potentially institutions going bankrupt, and there don't seem to be many steps in between that. I'd invite you to say whether you'd like to remedy that in future.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think, as I said at the beginning of the session, this is why this post-legislative scrutiny is useful, because we can reflect on that feedback. As I said, I would expect to be able to ensure that the commission had a range of powers that could address—from that soft power and those early conversations to being able to, as I said, issue, perhaps, advice and guidance to an institution, so there would be a more graduated escalation. Huw, is there anything else that I've missed out?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Just to build on what the Minister has said, there's a range of ways in which we interact with all institutions that are going to be in the tertiary sector, and some of that is about providing information. So, HEFCW provides information—it sends around circulars, it produces reports and it holds events. There's staff, management and leadership development activity, which can create a culture amongst the leaders of institutions, but also amongst their governing bodies, to help them move in a particular direction. We would hope that's in the direction of the civic university approach that the Minister has outlined. We use those mechanisms and informal interactions with FE college principals, with the work-based learning provider network, with sixth forms and others, and we would want to see, I hope, in the tertiary sector some alignment of those things. When things go badly wrong, there are a range of mechanisms. I think what stands behind HEFCW's comments is that before we had a loan-based system of student finance, there was a system of block grant allocations and conditions could be attached to those grant allocations by HEFCW. I don't think we're going to be going back to that system in the foreseeable future because of the pressures on public finances—",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "That wasn't how I understood it. I understood it to be the fact that you use these informal powers and then the next step up is quite a severe sanction and there's not much in between those.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "So, in—. Shall I carry on?",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Of course, yes.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "In the Hazelkorn review, there's quite a lot of focus on that and looking to learn from other national systems where outcome agreements provide a broader measure of the range of things the institutions do and a mechanism for tracking how things are done through the provision of information back to the institution to help them know how they're doing. And potentially, in some of these other institutions, funding is linked to some of those things.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "And, of course, what always has to be—. What we have to strike the balance of as well is at what point those powers seem to be—and the ability to direct—interfering with the principle of autonomy within an institution. So, there's that balance to be struck, isn't there, about creating a regulatory regime, which I'm very keen and the Act attempted to do, which was to enshrine institutional autonomy, and that's really, really important, but also a regulatory regime, the ability to influence and to develop and to deliver national outcomes and the power to intervene in that sector, which you know, better than probably anybody else in this room, guards that institutional autonomy very, very, very dear indeed. And that's the balance that we need to try and strike as we go forward with the new commission proposals.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. Dawn.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you, Chair. I think, in terms of the levels of measures—and I understand what you're saying—but I think what HEFCW were saying was that they try as far as possible to use informal measures and they are able to do that because of the size of the sector—just 10 institutions to work with. The post-16 sector, however many we're talking—50 plus providers—it's probably going to be less likely that they would be able to have that sort of relationship with the leaders in those institutions. So, the informal measures might not be as prevalent as they are currently, possibly.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, but also, what's incumbent upon me as the Minister is to ensure that the commission is set up in a way where it can have that relationship with the sector, because what's really important to remember is that HEFCW will be replaced. We're not asking HEFCW suddenly to go from regulating a small number of institutions to suddenly regulating 50. We'll be creating a commission that will be structured in such a way that it can have those relationships. Because, of course, whilst HEFCW will face changes, our relationship with and how we manage the FE sector and the apprenticeship sector will also shift. So, the point is that we need to create a commission that will still be able to be close to the sector, close enough to be able to provide that soft regulation, those really important relationships in a way—. So, it has to be created in such a way and resourced in such a way that it allows that to happen, and that's my intention.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Well, then, of course, the University of Wales said to us that they felt that there was the potential for HEFCW to issue directions enforceable by injunction to remedy minor matters. So, I think, from what you're saying, you wouldn't be expecting that to happen. Just the fact that they've got the power doesn't necessarily mean that that's what they're going to do.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think it's important to recognise when HEFCW can enforce its directions by way of an injunction. If they were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code—personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprising?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plans?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the concept of a fee and access plan is an important concept. Whether we can do them better, whether we can reflect on what's happened to date and create a better system of what's included in a fee and access plan and how those fee and access plans can be monitored, there's an opportunity to do that in forthcoming legislation.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, have you been aware of specific issues yourself? Have they brought them to you?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, no, not in the sense that they've brought them to me to talk about specifically. From my perspective, fee and access plans are focused very much on inputs, and, really, I'd like to think about outputs and outcomes, more importantly—what are the outcomes of the fee and access plan, not necessarily just how much money has been spent on them. I think, certainly, to really understand the success of the fee and access plan, you have to question whether an annual basis is an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether we could have something that was focused over a longer period of time. Because, when you think about it, you write the plan and then you're into it, and then, the next thing you know, you're writing your next year's plan. So, I think there's an opportunity there to look to restructure. So, do I see a place for fee and access plans going forward, as part of our outcome agreements? Yes, I do. Can we do them differently to make them more effective? Yes, I think we can.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, why would introducing outcome agreements make them work any better?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think they're going to be a part of an outcome agreement—part of that wider expectation. So, fee and access plans are there to address an issue around, primarily, changing the nature of people who go to university and making sure that nobody is put off from pursuing that. So, that's part of a wider piece of work that I'd want to see as an outcome agreement. But, as I said, I think looking at outcomes for students and outcomes of that activity, rather than the inputs of the activity, over a longer period of time, is probably a more effective way of doing it. I think it's still—. In a way, it's difficult to make a final judgment on whether fee and access plans in their current format have worked, because we need to know what'll happen to those students in the future. But undoubtedly, despite the limitations of them, I do think we're making progress in terms of access, but I don't think we can necessarily point to the fee and access plans as being the driver for some of those improvements.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "No, I appreciate that, and some of the things you're saying reflect some of the discussions we've had, but what was clear is that the process and bureaucratic nature of the way you present fee and access plans doesn't work, particularly given the fact that, four years on, early fee and access plans are still being evaluated. There's a real problem there. So, what you're saying—can I just pin down what you're saying—is that we may be moving away from yearly fee and access plans to something that's longer term and outcome focused.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "That's my preference. So, I think the principle—I'd like to think we can all agree around the principle of what a fee and access plan is hoping to achieve, but I think there are better ways of doing it, and I think we should take the opportunity of reform to look at how we can do it better.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, with that in mind, I think we're talking about the future of the Bill, the consultation on the PCET reforms closed in summer 2018—with these important issues in mind and things that are currently ongoing, have you had further dialogue since then with key stakeholders like, for example, Universities Wales and others?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "On the Bill or on fee and access plans in particular?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I'm thinking about fee and access plans as an issue that suggests that there is a need for deep consultation, so with that in mind, with things like that, have you had further discussion?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh my goodness me, civil servants in the department are constantly in discussion with a range of stakeholders as we continue to develop legislative proposals. I meet on a regular basis with both HEFCW—I meet separately with the vice-chancellors, and I've been very keen to develop a stronger working relationship with chairs, and perhaps we'll come on to issues of governance later. So, we are constantly discussing with stakeholders all options for change—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I suppose the message I'm getting as chair of the cross-party group on higher education is that there could still be more direct consultation with stakeholders. That's the message I've received. Now, I've got no evidence to say it has or hasn't happened, but that's the message I've received.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "If I could just chip in for a moment, the Minister's outlined that there is very extensive, ongoing communication both ways with the sector, but the challenge of preparing a Bill is the balancing act between gathering in information—and there's been a general consultation process and a technical consultation process—and wanting to make sure that the Bill that's laid next year hasn't been discussed with anybody else before it comes to be considered by the Senedd. So, the broad principles have been discussed, but specific details of what goes into a Bill or policy instructions that inform a Bill haven't been the subject of consultation—",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Because that happens at Stage 1.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Indeed, yes.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Sorry, can I move on to the next item?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Oh, you're going on to the next section.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, unless there's anything specific—",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, I just wanted to clarify, if we're moving to a longer term approach to this, how will the new body be able to establish that things are actually working, that the powers are working, if we're working on a five-year time frame?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "As we've heard, we can't really properly assess fee and access plans in the current arrangements, because it takes time for those cohorts of students to go through and activities to go through. Being able to move to a system where fee and access plans, for instance, could be over a three-year period I think allows universities to be more strategic in some of their investments and some of their activities around fee and access. In a single-year plan, it's almost knee-jerk, it's the need to demonstrate that you're doing something, and doing that within that period of time, rather than a more strategic view—. Can I just say, I know it's not quite subject to this, but we're really moving forward in terms of access and broadening access into the HE sector. For me, student financial support is one aspect of it, but if we're really thinking about social mobility and attracting people into higher education that have never been part of higher education before, our early figures would suggest—they're early figures, and they're subject to change, but in terms of our change to our student support regime, we have seen a 58 per cent increase in the number of postgraduates applying for student support in Wales. When you think about it, when many of us went to university, a degree was the thing that set you apart. Now that more and more students are going to university, it is that postgraduate qualification that sets you apart, but your ability to carry on studying is often limited by access to financial support, so a 58 per cent increase in postgraduate I think is great for those individuals, but it's also great for our economy. We've seen a 35 per cent increase in part-time undergraduates that have been supported by the Student Loans Company; the Open University have reported a 67 per cent increase in students from Wales's most economically disadvantaged areas registering with them; a 57 per cent increase in disabled students; and a 30 per cent increase in black, minority ethnic learners. So, I think that's a really, really positive basis for our sector to continue to work on broadening access.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you. Sorry, Hefin—carry on.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "I'll move on to managing risk, if that's okay. The feedback from Universities Wales suggests that, with the outcome of the 2015 Act, institutions with the strongest track records are more highly regulated than the riskier private alternative providers. Do you think that Act has struck the right balance?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think the Act has created a system where the level of regulation is proportional to the amount and the nature of public moneys received by institutions.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Those were the words used by Universities Wales—",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "No, no, I'm not disagreeing. My view is: I believe that the Act has struck that proportionality. When you look at public moneys going into institutions, I think that the Act is proportionate, myself.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, do you think it's in the interests of students, then, to be at private institutions—? I've seen those private institutions and how they operate; I've seen them at first-hand—they don't operate to the same rigour as public institutions, and they're less regulated.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Can I just chip in? I think that the category 'private' covers quite a wide range of things, and many private institutions are also charities. We don't have the presence of some of the large private charities that are present in other countries, but Stanford and Harvard would count as private universities. So, I think we need to be careful in focusing on the inherent quality of things. We've made charitable status a key reference point in the operation of things at the moment. I think there has been attention drawn to some private providers, particularly in England, but I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush, necessarily.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "But they fall outwith—if they're not charitable providers running validated courses, for example, they fall outwith the strength of regulation that is currently in place on the universities in Wales.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "So, we would regulate them on a course-by-course basis, so it's back to the issue of proportionality, isn't it? So, you are automatically regulated for all your courses, if you're one of our main universities, but there is a process that is run by HEFCW on a course-by-course basis to validate alternative providers. And as Huw said, I think we should recognise the nature of that is very, very, very small in Wales, and there is a process to ensure quality provision. If there were concerns about the quality of that provision, that course could be deregulated.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "And I'm aware that there are a small number of private institutions in Wales, but are you concerned that in the future the landscape may change, particularly with the opportunity to recruit more part-time students? Do you think the landscape may change in future and that the 2015 Act, as designed, wasn't equipped for that, and will the next Act, then, be equipped?",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "I think it's right to say that maybe the previous legislation didn't futureproof for changes. I'm not anticipating a mass influx of alternative providers, in the sense that we've seen across the border, but we will need to ensure that the new commission has powers to regulate and to futureproof.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you, Chair.",
"speaker": "Hefin David AM"
},
{
"content": "Dawn.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. We had some evidence from the University and College Union that were concerned about the governance of universities, actually, as being a bigger problem than the regulatory framework in many ways. Can you tell us, perhaps, how the HE Act addresses the issue of poor governance, or is it really just limited to responding to the symptoms rather than the poor governance itself?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, I think it's true and fair to say that the Bill does not directly address issues around governance in the sector. HEFCW do have well-established assurance practices in relation to governance that would predate the 2015 legislation. But governance—we've talked briefly about some recent history within the sector that I think has certainly brought the issue of governance to the fore once again, and I think there are two important things that we're trying to do about that in the current time, prior to any legislative changes. The first is, as I just said to Hefin, I have sought to have a more direct relationship with chairs of universities and have that one-to-one relationship with them, not in the presence of their vice-chancellors. I challenge them, they challenge me, and I think we've deliberately tried to establish a regular routine of that since I took office. And you'll be aware that, collaboratively—and I'm glad that this has been done in this way because I think if you do it this way, we're more likely to get some success and change—Universities Wales and HEFCW have worked together to undertake an independent review of governance. And I think it's really important that parties have come together to recognise the issues and to agree to take action, because I think if we'd have tried to impose something, we'd have more resistance. So, there is an independent review going on at the moment—",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Is that the risk review process in—?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "That's the Gillian Camm review. This is a review that, as I said, Universities Wales and HEFCW have agreed to do together. It's chaired by Gillian Camm, who is the chair of the Leadership Foundation for Higher Education, and she is doing an independent review to advise on changes to governance. And I welcome that, I'm very supportive of that, and that's happening at the moment. As I said, I'm glad that there's been recognition from within the sector themselves that they need to make sure, and they need to give confidence, that governance arrangements are what they should be.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "So, is that something that you're going to be taking into the PCET Bill, do you think?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Yes, absolutely. We're exploring how the Bill could introduce a regulatory condition in respect of good governance, and a commission would be able to set expectations with regard to good governance. I think one of the concerns for me—and I know that this is a concern that is shared by the UCU—is the diversity of governance and who finds themselves in these really important positions. HEFCW don't hold figures on it, but from an approximation that I've asked officials to do for me, currently in the universities that we have, I would say that men make up around 56 per cent of membership of universities' governing bodies; women—44 per cent; BME—as low as 4 per cent. Of course, in individual institutions, it does vary, but I think there is some way to go to making sure that our governing bodies are diverse and that there's an opportunity to look at the student voice in governance going forward, the staff voice in governance going forward, and these are things that we hope to have discussions on whilst we bring the legislation forward.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But also, I guess—sorry, Chair—a greater understanding, that anybody going in to become a governor of one of these institutions has a greater understanding of what is expected of them. Do you think that that's a gap that needs to be plugged?",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "One of the things that HEFCW have led on with AdvanceHE, the body that encompasses the leadership foundation, is a development programme for governing bodies, and that started earlier—well, it's been going on for some time, but it was recommenced earlier this year, with a session for all of the chairs of universities in Wales. And I believe—I'll need to check this—that there are plans to engage with each of the governing bodies, because, as you rightly say, and this lies behind a lot of what we've been discussing, the activities of these institutions have become much more complex over recent years, and so there is a need for that training and development and understanding also of the fast-changing nature of that activity.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Dawn Bowden AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, just before we move on, can I ask whether it's your plan to legislate on that, as they've done in Scotland?",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "As I said, I don't want to pre-empt scrutiny of the Bill, because we need to be able to come to the committee and do that in the entirety, rather than picking off individual bits of it, but we are absolutely exploring how the Bill could introduce a regulatory condition with regard to governance.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay, thank you very much. We've got some questions now from Siân on quality assurance.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. We've heard evidence regarding the difficulties caused by HEFCW having a legal duty to quality-assure all the provision in two further education colleges. That sounds to me like some kind of an anomaly or an unintended consequence of the Act. Could you clarify that and explain the situation in that instance?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you. My understanding—and as I said, it's a bit difficult, because I can't put myself into the thought process of the Minister at the time and what his expectation was. But, certainly, my understanding is that it was not an unintended consequence, it was an expectation built into the Act that HEFCW and Estyn would work together on these matters. The Act built on what were the quality assessment arrangements in the 1992 Act, which required HEFCW to secure arrangements for the assessment of the quality of education provided by funding institutions. So, as a consequence of that approach, HEFCW's quality assessment duty currently encompasses all the education provided by or on behalf of a regulated institution. So, it is complicated, and Huw can help me out here if I get it wrong, but my understanding is that it was not an unintended consequence, that was the expectation of what would happen when the legislation was passed. Huw.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I would completely agree with what the Minister has said.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "As always. [Laughter.] At least in public, Huw.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "There is the expectation that they will work together in concert. There's a lot of joint operation. I think, going forward, we would expect that to continue. We're looking to the new Bill to try to make that clearer. That was a theme in the general and technical consultation exercises that we've engaged in over the last couple of years.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "So, you're happy, therefore, that that partnership has worked. Are you happy with that?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Certainly, in our consultation for the upcoming Act, we've generally heard, certainly from our further education colleges, that they've been quite content with the arrangements. No concerns about it, certainly from further education colleges.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "There are differences in the systems of quality assurance as they've historically applied to FE and HE, but I understand that that has meant that, as FE colleges become more interested in HE, they've had to learn new ways, and that's taken a little bit of time. But, I'm not aware of any dissatisfaction.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Okay, which moves us on to this idea of having one quality assurance body or one quality assurance framework. Is that your intention and how will that work in practice?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "I am aware, and we've listened to stakeholders' concerns regarding proposals to introduce a single quality assessment body. As I said, we recognise that stakeholders are broadly content with the current situation with regard to Estyn and QAA. So, we've been listening to that, following the technical consultation, and policy officials are working through options in regard to ensuring what quality assurance will look like in the commission. As I said, I don't want to pre-empt bringing forward the legislation, but the principles underlying any assurance regime would need to be coherent, need to be effective and need to be comprehensive. What we're also very clear about, and I think it is important to say, is that any quality framework covering higher education will be compatible with ENQA, which I think is really, really important going forward. And by an extension of that, it would be compatible with current UK-wide baseline standards. So, we don't want to create specific problems for the HE sector in Wales.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "But, you have touched on this, there is substantial concern in the sector about this offer to move to one assurance body for the tertiary sector. One vice-chancellor has told us:",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, sometimes, I think it is necessary, maybe, to cause a stir. If we don't change things, it does beg the point of, 'Why are any of us here if we're not here to sometimes move things forward?' And change is challenging always, but I would like to reassure all of our vice-chancellors and our sector as a whole that we're not going to do anything in the quality assurance regime that would risk what is the very high reputation and standards that Welsh universities currently comply with or would set them apart from institutions across the border or in a European context. Huw.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "I agree, obviously. I think the fear is misplaced, but coming back to another theme in the conversation so far about futureproofing, what we're seeing in the figures that the Minister outlined to you earlier about the growth in postgraduate and the growth in part-time is the desire of a greater number of people at different ages to engage in higher and tertiary education, and quite often that will be in a workplace or it will be in a non-conventional institutional setting. Historically, the quality assurance regimes for work-based learning have tended to sit with Estyn; the assurance regimes for the universities have sat with the QAA. There's quite a lot of learning that all sides have got to engage in if we're going to be able to have continued high quality in these new areas that are being explored. That's an issue not just in Wales. The Augar report, which was published earlier this year in England, drew attention to this as being a major problem in the relationship over the border between Ofsted and the QAA. So, I think we're not looking to impose one institution on anybody, but we are looking to encourage greater synergy in the ways in which quality assurance and enhancement is undertaken in those different areas of activity.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "And finally, therefore, looking at overseas providers. Currently, of course, universities can award their degrees to students being taught by providers overseas. We know this created problems for the University of Wales in 2011. They faced a scandal; that's probably the best word to use there. Will the new Bill address these issues?",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, certainly transnational education does present real opportunities for Welsh institutions, but if not managed appropriately and regulated appropriately can cause real risks to reputation to our sector. When I meet with vice-chancellors in universities in different parts of the world, and when I am visiting different countries, one of the great things that I'm able to say is that we have a sector that provides fantastic quality of teaching, excellence in research and a wonderful student experience, and that is undermined if institutions find themselves undertaking TNE activities that put that at risk. So, it's an important consideration for the health of the whole sector that any TNE undertaken by a Welsh institution has the appropriate quality guarantees built into that because it's a problem not just for an individual institution, but it could undermine the very strong reputation that the Welsh sector has as a whole. Huw, was there anything further about TNE?",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Well, just to say that we are live to that, as I know HEFCW and the QAA are. We've had conversations with both in the recent past. There is quality assurance of offshore activity through the QAA. When they visit institutions with their reviews they will look at a selection of those overseas activities and there are periodic thematic reviews of the activity in particular countries. I think we would hope and believe that HEFCW, in its conversations with the QAA, would be keeping that under review to minimise the risk and maximise the opportunities.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "So, you're not actually looking to use the new legislation to strengthen the regulation around this.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "The arrangements at the moment are that HEFCW uses the QAA to do the reviews and the inspections. I don't think we're currently looking to mandate the detail of how that should happen. The system at the moment works through co-operation between the institutions and the regulator to make sure the quality assurance system is improving and enhancing things. I think we would look to that as a primary mechanism.",
"speaker": "Huw Morris"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you.",
"speaker": "Sian Gwenllian AM"
},
{
"content": "Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions from Members? No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both for attending this morning and answering all our questions? As usual, you will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting, but thank you both for your attendance this morning.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
},
{
"content": "Thank you.",
"speaker": "Kirsty Williams AM"
},
{
"content": "Item 3 then is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Minister for Education regarding the revised additional learning needs implementation plan. Paper to note 2 is additional information from HEFCW, following the meeting on 18 July, in relation to our post-legislative scrutiny of the Higher Education (Wales) Act. And paper to note 3 is a letter from us to the Welsh Local Government Association on the Childcare Funding (Wales) Act 2019. This is the letter that we agreed we would send last week. Can I ask Members if they're happy to note those? Yes. Thank you very much. Item 4 then. Can I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting and for item 1 on 2 October? Are Members content? Thank you.",
"speaker": "Lynne Neagle AM"
}
] |
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